Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-07-18

[15:00] Simon Linden:: Hello everyone
[15:00] ANSI Soderstrom: hi
[15:00] ANSI Soderstrom: brb
[15:00] Jenna Felton: hello Simon
[15:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): When you do it, inventory sent from agni..
[15:00] Lucia Nightfire: I think when maintenance is done on accounts, any overage in L$ reverts to 10000
[15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hellp, Simon.
[15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Inara.
[15:01] Lucia Nightfire: or wth I'm trying to say
[15:01] Lucia Nightfire: and hi
[15:01] Simon Linden:: Maestro is not able to come today, so I'm the substitute Master of Ceremonies today
[15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Nalates.
[15:01] Nal (nalates.urriah): HI Yuz...
[15:01] Lucia Nightfire: simon gets the talking stick thingy thing
[15:02] Inara Breen: Hey, Yuzuru.
[15:02] Inara Breen: Hi, Simon
[15:02] Simon Linden:: The wiki page is here : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[15:03] Lucia Nightfire: attendance is kind of lite today, heh
[15:04] Simon Linden:: We had full updates this week ... the main channel got a maintenance release, and there were updates on the RC channels
[15:04] Simon Linden:: plus another maintenance release there
[15:05] Simon Linden:: There's not much (any) other news so I guess the table is open for topics or questions
[15:05] Gistya Eusebio: I have a question related to SHA1
[15:06] Jenna Felton: i beleive a one of main channel sims was updated twice this tuesday
[15:06] Gistya Eusebio: For awhile a few of us have been wishing for full SHA1 support, currently llSHA1String inherits the limitations of LSL strings
[15:06] Nal (nalates.urriah): Any word on how Baker is doing with group bands?
[15:06] Gistya Eusebio: Namely that you cannot represent the zero-byte value nor any byte values over 128
[15:07] Simon Linden:: He's making progress, Nal, but it's still in the development stage. I think he was working on the viewer UI lately
[15:07] Gistya Eusebio: Which makes using the built-in llSHA1String function impossible for any hashing, like HMAC, used to sign requests to things like Twitter, Amazon AWS, etc.
[15:07] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
[15:07] Latif Khalifa: hey rex
[15:07] VoidPointer Linden: greetings Rex
[15:08] Rex Cronon: hi latif, voidpointer
[15:08] Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx Simoan
[15:08] Simon Linden:: hmm, interesting, Gistya ... one part of that problem is there isn't really any plain binary data in LSL, so it is kinda limited to what you can put in strings
[15:08] Gistya Eusebio: So in short I've had requests in for three or four years for an SHA1 function that would take in base64 or hexadecimal input and produce the same as output.
[15:08] Gistya Eusebio: Or even a list of integers.
[15:08] Gistya Eusebio: DWORD list.
[15:08] Gistya Eusebio: Anything.
[15:09] Lucia Nightfire: feature request, good luck
[15:09] Gistya Eusebio: Because even the most optimized algorithm I could make still takes one or two seconds to sign a request which leads to very bad performance and lots of script time.
[15:09] Gistya Eusebio: The thing is there are open source libraries for SHA1 everywhere.
[15:09] Rex Cronon: u might be able to use the new llxorbase64 function.
[15:09] Lucia Nightfire: I think he wants more encryption cap, heh
[15:10] Gistya Eusebio: Rex that would be useful but that's not going to help if you can't feed base64 into the SHA1 algorithm.
[15:10] Gistya Eusebio: And it's not for encryption it's for signing web requests.
[15:10] Lucia Nightfire: or that
[15:10] Lucia Nightfire: if we had that I may be able to make my own ANS for mp, lol
[15:10] Latif Khalifa: I wrote hmac-sha1 in LSL about 3 years ago... talk about major hacks lol
[15:10] Lucia Nightfire: in-world ANS
[15:11] Gistya Eusebio: I made one already too Latif but its performance is terrible which is why I'm ehre.
[15:11] Gistya Eusebio: here*
[15:11] Latif Khalifa: yeah it's super slow
[15:11] Rex Cronon: u can't use md5?
[15:11] Gistya Eusebio: I don't feel like it would be that much to ask since I would think Lindens could find a C# library (or whatever) that already exists and just wire it up?
[15:11] Gistya Eusebio: No Rex.
[15:11] Lucia Nightfire: md5 is broken by default, heh
[15:12] Gistya Eusebio: AWS requires HMAC-SHA1
[15:12] Gistya Eusebio: or HMAC-SHA2 ones like the 256
[15:12] Gistya Eusebio: Anyway that is all I have for today :D Been a sim owner for over three years now so if I get one request out of my contributions to LL that would be it :D
[15:13] Simon Linden:: well, I think the feature request is hampered by LSL not having a good data type for that, and then having a compelling reason to add what we could, which would be a very hacky function (from what I can imagine)
[15:13] Gistya Eusebio: All you need is strings, just take in a string that's in base64 or hex
[15:13] Rex Cronon: this one doesn't work llSHA1String
[15:13] Rex Cronon: ?
[15:13] Gistya Eusebio: No rex.
[15:14] Gistya Eusebio: I've found several SHA1 open source function that take in a hexadecimal string, you know, or a base64 one.
[15:14] Gistya Eusebio: Heck the existing function gives hexadecimal output, why not take hexadecimal input?
[15:15] Lucia Nightfire: I'm still waiting on SCR-253 lol
[15:16] Simon Linden:: well, I'll pass it along and see what happens
[15:16] Gistya Eusebio: I've got you beat by two years Lucia https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4610
[15:16] Rex Cronon: gistay. u could make your own server and send datat from here to it and than to amazon...
[15:16] Gistya Eusebio: No Rex
[15:16] Gistya Eusebio: That is unacceptable
[15:17] Gistya Eusebio: I cannot ask users to send their AWS secret keys to my server!
[15:17] Rex Cronon: they r already giving them to your lsl scripts:)
[15:17] Gistya Eusebio: No they are not.
[15:18] Gistya Eusebio: They would be giving them to their scripts (that I wrote) and those scripts would never transmit those keys anywhere, not even on a link message.
[15:18] Simon Linden:: So let's say I'm facing a manager, and we have this pile of work to do, and can only get to a fraction of it (which, btw, is what working on SL is like) ... what is the compellling reason to to the SHA functions that will make cool stuff possible in SL?
[15:19] Gistya Eusebio: Well I made a full scripted dialog system for NPCs
[15:19] Rex Cronon: commerce simon:)
[15:19] Gistya Eusebio: And an API to SimpleDB
[15:19] Gistya Eusebio: Full API
[15:19] Lucia Nightfire: smiles
[15:19] Gistya Eusebio: I can show you if you like
[15:19] Lucia Nightfire: happiness
[15:19] Gistya Eusebio: It's 4000 lines of code
[15:19] Lucia Nightfire: kisses?
[15:19] arton Rotaru: lol lucia
[15:20] Lucia Nightfire: Lindens luv kisses, they just won't admit it
[15:20] Rex Cronon: i think gistya wants people to buy things in real money from sl:)
[15:21] Latif Khalifa: the reason for sha1 is mostly that you need hmac-sha1 for oauth. say you write a twitter client that posts something from sl
[15:21] Simon Linden:: we keep that in IMs, Lucia
[15:21] Latif Khalifa: as i mentioned there is pure lsl implementation of it, but it's really slow
[15:21] Latif Khalifa: but i guess it doesn't matter that is slow, you need to auth only once
[15:22] Gistya Eusebio: This product is finished and very near to release so it would be a very quick turnaround to see cool stuff that people get out of it, but aside from that, if you support the developers to have robust abilities to interface with the wider internet, with services like Twitter, and Amazon AWS, what it does is that it enables people to use these cloud services and social media services directly in their LSL scripted products and that will open the door to a whole range of awesomeness
[15:23] Rex Cronon: having an outside server that acts as intermidiate between your lslscripts and twitter seems like one possible solution
[15:23] Gistya Eusebio: Rex, NO
[15:23] Gistya Eusebio: That is NOT a possible solution
[15:24] arton Rotaru: host it at the NSA ^^
[15:24] Gistya Eusebio: Please don't keep bringing that up, I already told you why that won't work.
[15:24] VoidPointer Linden: it does ask users to trust someone besides LL and the end-point, which can be a concern. Also makes the middleman vulnerable to attack, IP spoofing, etc. which can be a pain to guard against for a small server.
[15:24] Lucia Nightfire: theres what I was seeing
[15:24] Lucia Nightfire: I just was waiting on it
[15:25] ANSI Soderstrom whispers: hi
[15:25] Gistya Eusebio: See what I have made is a link to Amazon SimpleDB which means all the user has to do is go to Amazon SimpleDB and get their credentials, and put that into the script and boom. No need for any external server setup, no need for hosting.
[15:25] Rex Cronon: well. it has drawbacks but would work:)
[15:25] Gistya Eusebio: Instant infinite data storage for your scripts.
[15:25] Rex Cronon: hi ansi
[15:25] Gistya Eusebio: Except it's SLOW right now and if we have what I'm asking for then it would be nice and FAST :D
[15:26] Gistya Eusebio: I know LL already uses Amazon AWS for some things so they are familiar with it, and that's part of why I picked SimpleDB because it's part of AWS.
[15:26] Rex Cronon: gistya. amazon would be hosting it for u:)
[15:26] Gistya Eusebio: No, they'd be hosting it for the users.
[15:26] Gistya Eusebio: But the point is that they do not have to deal witha command line.
[15:26] Rex Cronon: yes
[15:26] Gistya Eusebio: Nor any PHP scripts.
[15:26] Gistya Eusebio: Nor any JavaScripts.
[15:26] Gistya Eusebio: Only LSL ever.
[15:27] ANSI Soderstrom: anvil
[15:27] Gistya Eusebio: And it's 100% secure
[15:27] Rex Cronon: this is funny as i also do that on my own server:)
[15:27] Gistya Eusebio: Do what?
[15:27] Rex Cronon: lol. nothing is 100% secure
[15:28] Rex Cronon: store lsl data on outside server:)
[15:28] Gistya Eusebio: That's great, what's your point?
[15:28] Rex Cronon: i don't need amazon:)
[15:28] Gistya Eusebio: Good then you're not who would use this.
[15:28] Gistya Eusebio: But not everyone wants to set up their own server.
[15:29] ANSI Soderstrom: i got today a vserver with 100GB Traffic, and 20GB SSD Raid5, 7€/Month
[15:29] Simon Linden:: well, in any case, I'm not the guy making decisions or approving it. If you want to re-submit SVC-4610 again with a concise design and a good list of compelling uses, I can at least promise that it will get looked at. That's about all I can promise, however
[15:29] Rex Cronon: but i need llXorBase64 to work right just as u need llSHA1String to work right:)
[15:29] ANSI Soderstrom: a busy linden
[15:29] ANSI Soderstrom: yay
[15:30] Lucia Nightfire: lol, rex adjust your php code
[15:30] Rex Cronon: my code works:)
[15:30] Gistya Eusebio: Rex I also need llXorBase64 to work right too :D
[15:30] Rex Cronon: we need to join forces:)
[15:30] Simon Linden:: I thought Kelly made yet another fucntion for that, Rex
[15:30] Gistya Eusebio: But somehow I got HMAC-SHA1 working with the existing XOR functions just fine, though I did see they are updating them again.
[15:30] Gistya Eusebio: Yeah Simon I saw that in the release notes.
[15:31] Rex Cronon: simon. it doesn't play nice with php:)
[15:31] Lucia Nightfire: it is updated, so anyone using a converter in php for teh old *Correct() function will have to adjust it for the current
[15:31] Gistya Eusebio: In fact the fact that was in the release notes was what gave me hope you guys might be in the mood to support your developers :D I will resubmit that. That's all I have for today.
[15:31] ANSI Soderstrom: damn inventory, i have to close it between 2 searches
[15:31] Rex Cronon: did that lucia. no luck
[15:32] Rex Cronon: ansi what u plan to do with it:)
[15:32] SMF Romantikkerze v0.1: ANSI Soderstrom hat eine neue Kerze aufgestellt ...
[15:33] Lucia Nightfire: also, I'm required by the state weekly to mention that SEC-1204 still crashes sims, heh
[15:33] Rex Cronon: gistya. too bad is not possible to vote for jiras anymore, otherwise i would vote for yours:)
[15:33] Lucia Nightfire: its too bad we can't at least look at them, lol
[15:33] ANSI Soderstrom: 150 ponts, yeah
[15:34] Rex Cronon: rigth lucia
[15:35] Rex Cronon: i support all hash and crypto functions. i want them all to work:)
[15:35] Simon Linden:: oh, we may have a fix in the works for that one, Lucia
[15:35] Lucia Nightfire: can you tell me wth it the cause in IM or soemthing?
[15:35] Lucia Nightfire: its been driving me nuts for half a year
[15:36] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[15:36] ANSI Soderstrom: Hello Object with the UUID of 3ec820a4-07b9-4634-3f87-bb676e8e3e65
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: since the region cross project was rolled out
[15:36] Simon Linden:: sure ... and may be able to give you some hints to make it go away
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: does it with no attachments even
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: I thought it was related to mesh attachments
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: but not the case
[15:36] Simon Linden:: well, attachments and scripts would make it worse
[15:37] Gistya Eusebio: BTW experience keys project... the thing I've been looking forward to the most since I first heard about it... just wanted to say thank you for working on that, I can't wait!
[15:38] Gistya Eusebio: I have to go back to work :( Thanks for hearing me out.
[15:38] arton Rotaru: experience keys project... thats so secret, even the NSA has no idea what it will be :p
[15:39] Simon Linden:: I hope we get that together soon ... I think it's still in flux on how it's going to be available
[15:39] Simon Linden:: or nobody has told me, lol
[15:39] Jenna Felton: there is hope :)
[15:39] VoidPointer Linden: no one tells us devs anything :P
[15:39] arton Rotaru: but the navmesh bug is fixed I guess?
[15:40] VoidPointer Linden: which navmesh bug?
[15:40] arton Rotaru: re-bake
[15:40] VoidPointer Linden: yes, that is I believe partially released (LeTigre?) let me check
[15:41] Simon Linden:: That should be fixed grid-wide as of yesterday
[15:41] arton Rotaru: hm, should be on SLS
[15:41] VoidPointer Linden: ah, ok, cool, didn't know the release schedule for that
[15:41] VoidPointer Linden: good
[15:42] Jenna Felton: I think i have a request that is not that hard like the encrypt functions :)
[15:42] Jenna Felton: When something is sent do me and i am offline i get offline IM that something is sent
[15:42] Rex Cronon: geez. u lindens need a posting board to keep up with what is new internally:)
[15:42] VoidPointer Linden: that's an excellent idea, Rex :)
[15:43] Simon Linden:: Right, Jenna ... do you need more info?
[15:43] Jenna Felton: but ther is no name of the item and not shown what sort of item is being given, if landmark, object or folder
[15:43] Jenna Felton: would be great if i could know what i am given and how the name of it is
[15:43] Jenna Felton: (in the offline inventory offer mesage)
[15:43] Simon Linden:: hmm, I'd have to look at what that notice is like ... it seems like the object name would be available to add to the email
[15:45] Jenna Felton: foor example:
[15:45] Jenna Felton: The object 'S&M Design Castle' in Second Life has offered you inventory.
Log in to accept or decline this inventory.

 = S&M Design Castle is owned by Elke Wylie = Free Bird (130,238,38)



---
[15:45] Jenna Felton: very short message :)
[15:45] arton Rotaru: I want to see the contents of sent notecards as well ^^
[15:45] Rex Cronon: in your email arton?
[15:46] arton Rotaru: sure Rex^^
[15:46] Jenna Felton: would be fun someone sends you an adult RP chat and you open the mail at office
[15:46] Rex Cronon: haha
[15:46] VoidPointer Linden: that would never happen in SL
[15:46] arton Rotaru: Why people still sending NC when IM's work pretty well ...
[15:47] Rex Cronon: how about receive a XXX sound clip that plays automatically at max volume:)
[15:47] Simon Linden:: Jenna - could you make a BUG jira with that, and copy in your sample? I just glanced at the code and I don't see that it knows the object name or more details at the point it's making that message, but it would be worth digging a little deeper and seeing if that's available
[15:47] Jenna Felton: oh, ok, i will do that
[15:49] Jenna Felton: in that case its not that easy as i supposed
[15:50] VoidPointer Linden: It does seem like a useful addition though - I agree with Simon that it's worth digging a bit to see how difficult it is
[15:51] Lucia Nightfire: any news of stuff coming down the pipe?
[15:52] Simon Linden:: well, there's been one change viewer-side ... the new release process has been started in a low-key way
[15:52] Simon Linden:: the maintenance project viewer is the first one in that pipeline ... that's the one with the right-click particle selection feature
[15:52] Simon Linden:: (you can right-click on a particle and mute the owner)
[15:53] Lucia Nightfire: ya, already tested that
[15:53] Lucia Nightfire: was in the materials viewer I think
[15:53] Lucia Nightfire: unless it was a dev viewer
[15:53] Inara Breen: Oz was commenting yesterday that the first RC viewers should be added to the process today or tomorrow.
[15:55] Simon Linden:: yes, it was added this morning
[15:55] Jenna Felton: oh
[15:55] Simon Linden:: It was in the dev maintenance viewer, Lucia
[15:55] Simon Linden:: The release notes are here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.6.2
[15:55] Jenna Felton: makes it sence to debug particles? for example to right click a particle source and then to see the configuration of the particles system?
[15:56] Lucia Nightfire: I think I installed taht to check out ribbon particles but didn't have any function syntax changelog info
[15:56] Simon Linden:: I don't think ribbon particles are in that one ... they should be in the next maintenance viewer
[15:56] Simon Linden:: that's just going to QA
[15:57] Simon Linden:: and has a TON of code changes .. optimiatizations, lots of stuff ... over 4 months of work backed up
[15:57] Lucia Nightfire: sounds fun
[15:58] Lucia Nightfire: could also be a nightmare
[15:58] Simon Linden:: horror movies are fun too :)
[15:58] Lucia Nightfire: IF bugs occur I mean
[15:58] arton Rotaru: there's quite some viewers now :p http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
[15:58] Simon Linden:: yes, I understand ... there will be some things to fix, I'm sure
[15:58] Rex Cronon: will rendering get laggy with these new particles?
[15:59] VoidPointer Linden: how could 4 months of changes possibly have bugs? bunch of pessimists, I swear :P
[15:59] arton Rotaru: you won't see em anyway Rex :p
[15:59] Lucia Nightfire: why I said nightmare
[16:00] Lucia Nightfire: Whirley has jet lag
[16:00] Simon Linden:: Rex - if you're rendering more triangles and textures, that adds load. It all depends on how much is going on
[16:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Is GTX760 enough to display shadow and ribbon?
[16:00] Lucia Nightfire: or her comp is on PST
[16:00] Jenna Felton: we need rain
[16:00] Rex Cronon: wouldn't be funy if i actually use a moded viewer that only says it is 1.23.5 :)
[16:00] VoidPointer Linden: nice effect, Lucia :)
[16:00] Lucia Nightfire: the fire?
[16:01] Lucia Nightfire: that isn't mine
[16:01] VoidPointer Linden: yeah
[16:01] Lucia Nightfire: someone is shooting mes
[16:01] Jenna Felton: Ansi is burning
[16:01] VoidPointer Linden: hehe, nice
[16:01] Inara Breen cocks an eye at Ansi
[16:01] Lucia Nightfire: [16:01:20] Eclipse ESP HUD (T) v0.54328: Last proximity threats detected:
Object: burning, Owner: ANSI Soderstrom, Time: 30 seconds ago
[16:01] arton Rotaru: heh, Rex. you can't, you can't switch viewers anymore. you have to be the one who on the last 1.23.5
[16:01] arton Rotaru: is the last...*
[16:01] Whirly Fizzle: Griffer :P
[16:01] Rex Cronon: u sure:)
[16:02] Simon Linden:: oh nice, "Mute Particle Owner" works great :)
[16:02] VoidPointer Linden: hahaha
[16:02] Lucia Nightfire: try it bouncing PN spam
[16:02] ANSI Soderstrom whispers: i did cheat your shield
[16:02] Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc evrybody. enjoy frying ansi:)
[16:02] Simon Linden:: well, time is up ... thanks everyone for the chat this week
[16:02] Lucia Nightfire: cheat?
[16:03] Latif Khalifa: thank you :)
[16:03] Rex Cronon: u will be well done soon:)
[16:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Simon.
[16:03] ANSI Soderstrom: nice news
[16:03] Simon Linden:: Have a good weekend ... and see you next time
[16:03] ANSI Soderstrom: thanks all for watching
[16:03] Lucia Nightfire: later
[16:03] arton Rotaru: thx U2
[16:03] VoidPointer Linden: see y'all next week!
[16:03] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah about that..... we cant mute Linden particles& you know. Kelly's bling is dangerous >.<
[16:03] ANSI Soderstrom: Caleb, please send me your Bear in mainGrid :)
[16:03] Lucia Nightfire: can't mute Lindens anyways
[16:03] Nal (nalates.urriah): thx Lindens
[16:04] Lucia Nightfire: which is just silky