Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-11-07

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[2013/11/07 15:01]  TankMaster Finesmith: heya maestro and caleb
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Margithe Resident! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Baker Linden: I'm not touching group chat anytime soon :P
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Rex Cronon: hello jenna
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Maestro Linden: Hi guys
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Maestro.
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Margithe: hello Maestro!
[2013/11/07 15:01]  Miguael Liamano: Hello Maestro,Caleb. Natales. and the others i missed o-o
[2013/11/07 15:02]  Maestro Linden: Alright, let's get this meeting started: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/11/07 15:03]  Ardy Lay: Hilarious that I see shadows before I see the avatars they go with.
[2013/11/07 15:03]  Maestro Linden: The main topics are just this week's releases (or lack thereof) and the upcoming maintenance project for next week
[2013/11/07 15:03]  Maestro Linden: First, this week's releases
[2013/11/07 15:04]  Maestro Linden: the only server roll was to the main channel, to get the maintenance project that was on the RCs last week
[2013/11/07 15:04]  Maestro Linden: this project only had a few crash fixes
[2013/11/07 15:05]  Maestro Linden: a new experience tools update project was originally planned for the RC channels, but it was aborted at the last minute, due to a test failure
[2013/11/07 15:05]  Maestro Linden: otherwise, there was some database maintenance this morning
[2013/11/07 15:05]  TankMaster Finesmith: what experience goodies will it add?
[2013/11/07 15:05]  Maestro Linden: which went smoothly, as I understand
[2013/11/07 15:06]  Duckie Dickins: it apologizes to you when you crash. :)
[2013/11/07 15:06]  Maestro Linden: it was just to update some infrastructure; no functional changes
[2013/11/07 15:06]  Margithe: oh is that why i'm failing bakes :P
[2013/11/07 15:06]  TankMaster Finesmith: no
[2013/11/07 15:06]  Rex Cronon: no duckie. it adds a button "click here to fix the TOS" :)
[2013/11/07 15:07]  Maestro Linden: The main news that I have is that we'll probably have a new maintenance project in RC next week
[2013/11/07 15:07]  Maestro Linden: with some high profile fixes
[2013/11/07 15:08]  Maestro Linden: including
[2013/11/07 15:08]  Maestro Linden: BUG-4152 Sim crossing on vehicle fails when parcel at opposite sim border is full.
[2013/11/07 15:08]  Jonathan Yap: What server version has the region name in the region restart message?
[2013/11/07 15:08]  Maestro Linden: current second life server has it, Jonathan; it's just that the release viewer ignores the [NAME] tag
[2013/11/07 15:09]  Jonathan Yap: ok, good to know. I am making a viewer change in that area of code, hopefully there is not a merge problem later
[2013/11/07 15:09]  TankMaster Finesmith: i take it thats fixed in viewer-bear?
[2013/11/07 15:09]  Maestro Linden: you should be able to test that with estate manager initialted restarts
[2013/11/07 15:10]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, that should be the one, Tankmaster
[2013/11/07 15:10]  TankMaster Finesmith: ok „ã°
[2013/11/07 15:10]  Maestro Linden: you can edit the xml yourself if you're impatient :)
[2013/11/07 15:10]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol
[2013/11/07 15:10]  TankMaster Finesmith: considering our next release probably wont be until next year...
[2013/11/07 15:10]  Maestro Linden: I think the message names are "RegionRestartMinutes" and "...Seconds"
[2013/11/07 15:11]  Maestro Linden: other fixes in the upcoming server RC are..
[2013/11/07 15:11]  Techwolf Lupindo: I like to have the yellow drop down back for regine start.....
[2013/11/07 15:11]  Maestro Linden: a bunch of crash fixes, including some which combat a physics griefer object
[2013/11/07 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: I'd like to have a flashing icon too, since those messages shrink
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Miguael Liamano: I agree. they're too easily unseen
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Jonathan Yap: There is a proposal to have a floater witha countdown timer appear when a restart message arrives
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Ardy Lay: Why not ask for a running countdown in local chat too?
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Jonathan Yap: Oz will bring it up with product team
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Captains Ghost: Looks like I already missed a lot lol, work decided to keep me extra
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Maestro Linden: also an interest listy fix, where you currently don't connect to regions far enough away when draw distance is set to 512m
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Duckie Dickins: and a audio alarm like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJySOf2jPnU
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Miguael Liamano: lolol
[2013/11/07 15:12]  TankMaster Finesmith: and a audio queue as well when its in countdown
[2013/11/07 15:12]  Jonathan Yap: Torley is making some sounds to go along with the message
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Miguael Liamano: Torley
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Rex Cronon: we need the whole screen to flush and blood dripping text that says "sim restart in 3 seconds" :)
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Miguael Liamano: ‚ô•
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Maestro Linden: another change in the upcoming maintenance RC is a feature request that came from this group a few weeks ago
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Miguael Liamano: rofl
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Lucia Nightfire: "Self distruct in # seconds."
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Maestro Linden: that objects rezzed by sat-upon objects should have a fresh autoreturn and temp-on-rez timer
[2013/11/07 15:13]  Ardy Lay: Heh, have world view tint, like mini-map tints red, for no useful reason.
[2013/11/07 15:14]  Ardy Lay: Ah, that's good.
[2013/11/07 15:14]  Maestro Linden: so that they'll last the full ~60 seconds (for temporary) or parcel autoreturn time
[2013/11/07 15:14]  Maestro Linden: we've also got the odd edge case where a temp-on-rez attachment rezzes stuff
[2013/11/07 15:15]  Maestro Linden: (I don't know why you'd have a temp-on-rez attachment, but anything temporary that it rezzes will now last the full minute)
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Captains Ghost: Semo items maybe? lol
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Captains Ghost: Demo*
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Margithe: Edible stuff.
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: temmp attachments in general
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Jenna Felton: i use sometimes temp-on-rez attachments, when i want prepare the object for something and i want it to be temp, i attach it and work without danger of the thing being removed too early
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Captains Ghost: Yeah that too
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Maestro Linden: yeah maybe.. or maybe if the attachment had done llAttachToAvatar(), like if it were a HUD rezzed by some other object
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: like temp guns for game areas
[2013/11/07 15:16]  Maestro Linden: /me nods
[2013/11/07 15:17]  Maestro Linden: another upcoming change is that scripts can no longer add estate managers/owners to the ban list or teleport them home with llTeleportAgentHome()
[2013/11/07 15:17]  Maestro Linden: this change was in response to some 'trojan' objects
[2013/11/07 15:17]  Ardy Lay: oops
[2013/11/07 15:18]  Motor Loon: good move
[2013/11/07 15:18]  Techwolf Lupindo: /me LOL
[2013/11/07 15:18]  TankMaster Finesmith: sounds resonable
[2013/11/07 15:18]  Lucia Nightfire: what about GO's or LO's on mainland?
[2013/11/07 15:18]  Techwolf Lupindo: There was a recent avatar release that a grifter object took advantage off and did that.
[2013/11/07 15:18]  Captains Ghost: Scripts can't add/remove estate managers still can they?
[2013/11/07 15:18]  Maestro Linden: I put in a separate jira that we should probably block llTeleportAgentHome() of the parcel owner
[2013/11/07 15:19]  Lucia Nightfire: I've seen torjan & silent banlist clearing objects more than owner banning
[2013/11/07 15:19]  Lucia Nightfire: llResetLandBanList()
[2013/11/07 15:19]  Maestro Linden: nope, they can't change the estate manager list, but they can change the ban list with  llManageEstateAccess()
[2013/11/07 15:20]  Ardy Lay: Do you wear or rez crap that strangers give you?  If so, have I got a deal for you!
[2013/11/07 15:20]  Captains Ghost: Think that will ever be a feature?
[2013/11/07 15:20]  Maestro Linden: I doubt it, it seems rather risky to allow automation of that
[2013/11/07 15:20]  Miguael Liamano: Always rez untrusted objects in noscript zone.
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Jenna Felton: can scripts make the land owner operations like llResetLandBanList without a permission being given?
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Lucia Nightfire: yes
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Captains Ghost: I could see it in good use if you had more than 10 managers that needed access
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Captains Ghost: For larger estates.
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Miguael Liamano: if you need more than 10 managers per region, you dom
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Miguael Liamano: don't have good staff*
[2013/11/07 15:21]  Miguael Liamano: lol
[2013/11/07 15:22]  Captains Ghost: Lol, no that would be the Chang Family
[2013/11/07 15:22]  Miguael Liamano: XD
[2013/11/07 15:22]  Lucia Nightfire: and yes, always rez stuff you're unsure of in an estate overrided no script zone, like Sandbox Island Ext
[2013/11/07 15:22]  Techwolf Lupindo: Its not per regine, its per estate that can span over 100 regines.
[2013/11/07 15:22]  Maestro Linden: Jenna: yeah, I don't see a permission associated with that function: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlResetLandBanList
[2013/11/07 15:23]  Jenna Felton: i beleive there should be a permission for this and such operations. That is not safe somehow.. but add a new permission dan break stuff
[2013/11/07 15:23]  Jenna Felton: can*
[2013/11/07 15:23]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, it would certainly break any object that currently uses the function
[2013/11/07 15:23]  TankMaster Finesmith: sometimes is best to break things if it means it cannot be abused improperly
[2013/11/07 15:23]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, you'lll be hearing whining from ability users and their implicit moderation function usage
[2013/11/07 15:24]  ac14 Hutson: sorry i must have missed something. llREsetBandList or whatever dosnt required the object be the land owners o.O?
[2013/11/07 15:24]  Maestro Linden: Though you could perhaps add a notification to the parcel owner "Object1234 at <location> reset the parcel ban list"
[2013/11/07 15:24]  Lucia Nightfire: anything good can be abused sadly
[2013/11/07 15:25]  Maestro Linden: ac14, it has to be owned by an avatar/group who has the authority to do the operation manually
[2013/11/07 15:25]  Lucia Nightfire: it onyl requires banlist mod ability
[2013/11/07 15:25]  Lucia Nightfire: of the owner
[2013/11/07 15:25]  Lucia Nightfire: *object owner
[2013/11/07 15:25]  ac14 Hutson: is there like a reason it needs to be broken then? or are you talking about something else
[2013/11/07 15:25]  Margithe: but then it can do it silently, from, lets say, the shoes youre wearing?
[2013/11/07 15:26]  Margithe: it sounds like it would be reasonable that it asks for permission , since it can't be "undone"
[2013/11/07 15:26]  Ardy Lay: More likely to be your zippo lighter
[2013/11/07 15:26]  Maestro Linden: The concern is that I could give you 'cute kitty' which you then rez on your parcel.  But the script with the 'purr' function also has a 'manipulate ban list' function
[2013/11/07 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, the discussion was about trojan objects using moderation functions unbeknown to the object owner
[2013/11/07 15:27]  Maestro Linden: and since you (the parcle owner) own the kitty, the script there can do the operation
[2013/11/07 15:27]  Jenna Felton: yes
[2013/11/07 15:28]  Margithe: " Do you want to reset the ban list- "Yes, No, Ignore" .. . unless...
[2013/11/07 15:28]  ac14 Hutson: i dont really see the need to break the banlist functions :V if you are concerned about people rezzing things that could do harm you might aswell just end SL now.
[2013/11/07 15:28]  Margithe: Unless this is used for times bans or something
[2013/11/07 15:28]  Margithe: timed*
[2013/11/07 15:28]  Motor Loon: Wouldnt the solution be to add something that when you rez an object and contains those functions it'll display a warning to the owner?
[2013/11/07 15:28]  Motor Loon: that wouldnt break anything existing
[2013/11/07 15:29]  Maestro Linden: yes, that would seem like a good solution, Motor
[2013/11/07 15:29]  ac14 Hutson: i use scripted objects to manage a region all the time since getting to the menu is a pain. i just estate ban parcel ban and tp them home all at the same time
[2013/11/07 15:29]  Rex Cronon: u just have to buy a template for good lookin shoes for women, put a trojan in them and give them away for free:)
[2013/11/07 15:29]  Lucia Nightfire: I think there is no good or bad solution, so it won't be changed, lol
[2013/11/07 15:29]  ac14 Hutson: yeah thats a decent idea motor
[2013/11/07 15:29]  Jenna Felton: /me agrees to Motor
[2013/11/07 15:29]  Maestro Linden: We did this for llManageEstateAccess actually;
[2013/11/07 15:29]  Jonathan Yap: if you rezz the trojan would you prevent the scripts from running until the warning is read and OKayd?
[2013/11/07 15:30]  Jenna Felton: this is like a new sort of script permission without explicite perission given :)
[2013/11/07 15:30]  Maestro Linden: Originally, there was a 'trojan' possibility, because it didn't ask for a permission.  So what wee did was have the owner be notified, with the option to request PERMISSION_SILENT_ESTATE_MANAGEMENT  if you want it to work stealthily
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Motor Loon: yeah but that dont tell you until it actually does the bad stuff right?
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Motor Loon: not at rez
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Jonathan Yap: you see the message but by then the script has run
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Motor Loon: (unless you request the permission)
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Maestro Linden: that's true, but you'll know exactly what it did in case you need to undo it
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Maestro Linden: I'm not sure how feasible your suggestion is, Jonathan.. Kelly could probably comment
[2013/11/07 15:31]  Motor Loon: yeah certainly better than nothing
[2013/11/07 15:32]  Maestro Linden: (about pausing the script until some user feedback is given)
[2013/11/07 15:32]  Jonathan Yap: probably not too feasable to "pause" scripts
[2013/11/07 15:32]  Captains Ghost: There's not a way to pull from the top scripts estate tool through a script is there?
[2013/11/07 15:32]  Margithe: Wouldn't it be like asking permission to animate?
[2013/11/07 15:32]  Ardy Lay: Can't undo clearing a list of names.
[2013/11/07 15:32]  Captains Ghost: er not top scripts, top colliders*
[2013/11/07 15:33]  Maestro Linden: Nope, there's no interface for that directly, Captains.  But with llGetObjectDetails(), you can look up the CPU time of a certain script
[2013/11/07 15:33]  Maestro Linden: nope nothing like that for top colliders
[2013/11/07 15:33]  Margithe: I think it's more bothersome , not that it clears the ban list, but that the clearing can't be undone. So it doesn't help overly much to know that the banlist is cleared. Same effect still.
[2013/11/07 15:33]  Maestro Linden: er, not 'of a certain script', I meant 'of all the scripts in a certain linkset'
[2013/11/07 15:34]  Maestro Linden: I guess it could send a list of agents which were removed
[2013/11/07 15:34]  Rex Cronon: it shouldn't be that hard to refill the banlist
[2013/11/07 15:34]  Maestro Linden: which may be a pretty long message
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Jenna Felton: Is it possible for objects being rezzed by another object to find out what object rezzed it? I mean additionally to the object owner. This way you could find the object rezing trojans and antother stuff that spam your viewer
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Ardy Lay: Refill it from a message?
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Jonathan Yap: if the trojan waits a while you might not be around to see the list of eliminated names
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Ardy Lay: THere can be hundreds of entries, right?
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Jenna Felton: i mean that you can ispect the object and come to the rezzer
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: the only recovery I have in that area is for when a region crashes and has significant time loss, where initiated bans during the time loss are re-enstated
[2013/11/07 15:35]  Rex Cronon: u store the ban list somewhere else...
[2013/11/07 15:36]  Ardy Lay: It's already stored.
[2013/11/07 15:36]  Techwolf Lupindo: I though function that manupalied ban and access list had a permission check, like animations.
[2013/11/07 15:36]  Maestro Linden: Jenna, there's no function for that right now, but it may be relatively simple to add that information (about the parent object id)
[2013/11/07 15:37]  ac14 Hutson: i feel as though having the object say something when you rez it about being able to maange the estate would be enough
[2013/11/07 15:37]  Jenna Felton: Thank you Maestro :)
[2013/11/07 15:37]  Margithe: but then the deed is already done, so it doesn't help.
[2013/11/07 15:38]  ac14 Hutson: welll at least you would know.
[2013/11/07 15:38]  Margithe: maybe when clearing the ban list, you could get the option of having the ban list dumped into a notecard or e-mail
[2013/11/07 15:38]  ac14 Hutson: i dont see the need to build all these functions to defend agasint the simple problem of. someone who shouldnt be trusting gave you something and you rezzed it.
[2013/11/07 15:39]  Margithe: So the script still runs, but you can grab a backup
[2013/11/07 15:39]  Jonathan Yap: the server could send a special chat message when a name is eliminated
[2013/11/07 15:39]  Techwolf Lupindo: Its strange, animaition requires the user permissiong, but pacel access and ban don't?
[2013/11/07 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah too much convenience dulls your senses and experience
[2013/11/07 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: I never rez or attach stuff from untrusted sources on my land
[2013/11/07 15:40]  Jenna Felton: Or an inspection floater given to the viewer, where you can inspect an object and see what operations the scripts inside the object can potentially do, so when you inspect shoes you see what else could hpen when you wear them. And when there is "Manipulate Access Lists" than you can claim the creator or who gave you the shoes
[2013/11/07 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: probably why 95% of my scripted stuff was self-made
[2013/11/07 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: Jenna it would be neat to have the ability to have a feature tell you what LSL functions a script contains
[2013/11/07 15:42]  Ardy Lay: JAVA does that now.
[2013/11/07 15:42]  Rex Cronon: lucia. that would make a nice way to inspect the scripts from your competitors:)
[2013/11/07 15:43]  Margithe: from a no-mod script? I'm not sure how people would feel about that
[2013/11/07 15:43]  ac14 Hutson: lol rez. lol
[2013/11/07 15:43]  Jonathan Yap: Who is going to write a decompiler, to help with lost source code?
[2013/11/07 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: Rex, I don't mean reading scripts compile structure
[2013/11/07 15:43]  TankMaster Finesmith: you are, jonathan, thx for volunteering :P
[2013/11/07 15:43]  Ardy Lay: Executables should always have permission masks.
[2013/11/07 15:44]  Margithe: Could go even further and only give away functions that are tagged to be harmful. Not all are.
[2013/11/07 15:44]  Margithe: I agree with Ardy
[2013/11/07 15:44]  Rex Cronon: i think masks r the best
[2013/11/07 15:44]  Miguael Liamano: Everyone loves masks.
[2013/11/07 15:44]  Margithe: It's strange that a bag has to ask me if it's ok if i animate with it, but nuking the banlist needs no permission dialogue.
[2013/11/07 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/11/07 15:45]  Miguael Liamano: +1 Margithe
[2013/11/07 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: what about perms containers taht survive taking and rerezzing
[2013/11/07 15:45]  ac14 Hutson: i bet most of the people on the banlist stopped caring a long time ago or are banned from the game.
[2013/11/07 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: anything good can be abused
[2013/11/07 15:46]  Ardy Lay: Yeah, does seem kinda odd but then do keep in mind how SL evolved.
[2013/11/07 15:46]  Jonathan Yap: There was a request a while ago to show last login time on the banlist
[2013/11/07 15:46]  Miguael Liamano: It's the people we need to change, not the functions. sadly, that won't happen.
[2013/11/07 15:46]  Jonathan Yap: no, it was time the name was added to the list
[2013/11/07 15:46]  Ardy Lay: THings got tied in, some without switches and fuses.  ;-)
[2013/11/07 15:46]  Jonathan Yap: but bothwould be helpful
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Jonathan Yap: Maestro, are you letting us run this meeting now? :)
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Ardy Lay: So some things may need some rework.
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Maestro Linden: basically :)
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Ardy Lay: Maybe he is in "deep hack mode".
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: watching the clock
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Maestro Linden: You can take my place at the DJ booth if you like, heh
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Rex Cronon: the lindens just sit back and watch the show:)
[2013/11/07 15:47]  Ardy Lay: Rex, sometimes that's what needs to be done.
[2013/11/07 15:48]  Margithe: Well, it doesn't hurt to decide "under what conditions do explicit user permissions need to be given", and that has been set around an object doing stuff to you. When an object does stuff to your land, it's reasonable that it falls into the same category.
[2013/11/07 15:48]  Ardy Lay: Perhaps They can find out what residents need that way.
[2013/11/07 15:50]  Baker Linden: Any other questions?  Before the meeting started (but not before Rex started recording the chat), I mentioned I fixed a few big issues on server-side code
[2013/11/07 15:50]  Miguael Liamano: maybe there could be a parcel setting that says "Allow scripts to modify the access lists" (or not) ?
[2013/11/07 15:50]  Baker Linden: group ban stuff
[2013/11/07 15:50]  Margithe: Aww, and we didn't ask what it was
[2013/11/07 15:50]  Baker Linden: but other than that, We're still going through and I'm getting the last of the server side fixes done so we can deploy to aditi
[2013/11/07 15:50]  Jonathan Yap: awesome
[2013/11/07 15:51]  Miguael Liamano: >\o/<
[2013/11/07 15:51]  Rex Cronon: keep up the good work
[2013/11/07 15:51]  Techwolf Lupindo: I say just add the PERMISSION reauirment to the lsl functions that handle the ban/access list. Just like animations are handled now.
[2013/11/07 15:51]  Yuzuru Jewell: Can only land owner use group ban?
[2013/11/07 15:51]  Maestro Linden: the group ban code now actually checks to see that you have permission now, which is always a plus
[2013/11/07 15:51]  TankMaster Finesmith: its a new role capibility
[2013/11/07 15:51]  Maestro Linden: Yuzuru, it's about banning somebody from a group
[2013/11/07 15:52]  Yuzuru Jewell: I see it is group role manager.
[2013/11/07 15:52]  Jonathan Yap: so that they cannot rejoin
[2013/11/07 15:52]  TankMaster Finesmith: group caht
[2013/11/07 15:52]  TankMaster Finesmith: chat*
[2013/11/07 15:52]  Motor Loon: yeah you should probably call it "group member ban" to avoid confusion
[2013/11/07 15:52]  Baker Linden: stop trying to make me fixing group chat happen. It's not going to happen! (mean girls reference, if you didn't know)
[2013/11/07 15:52]  Yuzuru Jewell: not only land manage but also role and chat..
[2013/11/07 15:53]  Yuzuru Jewell: That's great!
[2013/11/07 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: just as long as invites for banned agents don't and aren't accepted if they're banned either, don't want invite bots auto-unbanning idiots
[2013/11/07 15:53]  Baker Linden: Tank, it's a new ability, yes
[2013/11/07 15:53]  Jonathan Yap: there might be a fix coming for group invites from people you have muted; it made it past triage
[2013/11/07 15:53]  Maestro Linden: Lucia: yeah, that's blocked.  you can't invite somebody who is banned from the group
[2013/11/07 15:54]  Baker Linden: Motor, it's not technically just for banning members. You may also pre-emtively ban residents from ever joining your group in the first place!
[2013/11/07 15:54]  Motor Loon: yeah i know, but most people hearing "group ban" will think it relates to banned a certain group from your land.
[2013/11/07 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: Is there a test to pass Lindens?
[2013/11/07 15:54]  Baker Linden: that's true :)
[2013/11/07 15:54]  Techwolf Lupindo: Is there an lsl function to add/remove group bans?
[2013/11/07 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: ^
[2013/11/07 15:55]  Baker Linden: Yes, Jonathan. We're doing the internal testing to prevent huge issues from happening on aditi
[2013/11/07 15:55]  Baker Linden: Techwolf, there will be, but not initially
[2013/11/07 15:55]  Techwolf Lupindo: I could see a group of group mods using lsl script to ban spam bots.
[2013/11/07 15:55]  Margithe: or a spambot directory, added automatically
[2013/11/07 15:55]  Techwolf Lupindo: Bot spam in one group, gets banned from a 100 more even before it can spam it.
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Margithe: yeah
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Baker Linden: yeah, I know script support would be greatly appreciated, but I'm not going to add it in now. I have to figure out the logistics first
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: ^
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Jonathan Yap: you should not be able to ban yourself by accident, too :)
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Baker Linden: you can't
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Miguael Liamano: ^
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Miguael Liamano: Oh, cool.
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Jonathan Yap: Are group owner also non-bannable?
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Miguael Liamano: ^
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Baker Linden: I also just fixed the issue where an owner was not exempt from being banned. That was resolved this week
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Miguael Liamano: beat me to it
[2013/11/07 15:56]  Jonathan Yap: heh :)
[2013/11/07 15:57]  Miguael Liamano: yay!
[2013/11/07 15:57]  Techwolf Lupindo: I case one is wondering how that can happen, new admins or mods with a bad mouse that went nuts.
[2013/11/07 15:57]  Motor Loon: "owner" as in "founder" or anyone with the "owner" role?
[2013/11/07 15:57]  Jonathan Yap: If someone can click wrong they will sooner or later
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Baker Linden: Anyone in the owner role
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Motor Loon: Cool
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Baker Linden: owners and founders have the same permissions
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Techwolf Lupindo: Batteries in wirless mouse going down will cause the mouse to do strange things.
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Baker Linden: since the founder is just a person in the owner group by default
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Lucia Nightfire: so officers can be banned?
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Maestro Linden: or rather, I thikn just being the founder doesn't give you any special permission
[2013/11/07 15:58]  Maestro Linden: if you were the founder and then left the owner role after inviting somebody else to the owner role, they would be more powerful than you
[2013/11/07 15:59]  Baker Linden: officers may be banned, but you will still need the requisite permissions to eject them from the group.  It's the issue I've been thinking about lately.
[2013/11/07 15:59]  Margithe: yup. A first step to making an abandoned group ;)
[2013/11/07 15:59]  Miguael Liamano: I think that not allowing officiers to be banned can cause problems with internal management of group, say one of the officiers gets their account stolen, or starts doing sh**.
[2013/11/07 15:59]  Miguael Liamano: Oh, okay, that works.
[2013/11/07 15:59]  TankMaster Finesmith: you could always drop them fro the officer role before adding them to the ban list
[2013/11/07 16:00]  Jenna Felton: a group without owner should be owned automatically by gouvernor linden
[2013/11/07 16:00]  Baker Linden: For the latter, I'd say the group should seriously rethink their trust level when promoting people to officer status with eject / ban abilities.
[2013/11/07 16:00]  Baker Linden: that what you have to do Tank
[2013/11/07 16:00]  Miguael Liamano: Indeed.
[2013/11/07 16:00]  Jonathan Yap: To be able to ban someone won't you also need to be able to eject them first?
[2013/11/07 16:00]  Baker Linden: if they're in the group, the Ban Member(s) button will do two things
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Baker Linden: 1. Add the member's ID to the group ban table in the database
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Baker Linden: 2. Call "Eject"
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Baker Linden: it would be the same thing as pressing both the ban and eject buttons
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Ardy Lay: "Eject" is the bouncer's name.
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Jonathan Yap: so that call to Eject could fail if you lack that ability
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Baker Linden: all I do viewer-side is call the eject callback
[2013/11/07 16:01]  Baker Linden: correct. That call could fail to Eject if you do not have the proper permissions
[2013/11/07 16:02]  Jonathan Yap: Baker, do you mean eject from parcel or from the group list?
[2013/11/07 16:02]  Baker Linden: group
[2013/11/07 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Okay guys, we're out of time
[2013/11/07 16:02]  Jonathan Yap: what happens then to a banned member who failed to get ejected?
[2013/11/07 16:02]  Miguael Liamano: if the parcel is group access, they will be ejected as well, I suppose
[2013/11/07 16:02]  Baker Linden: They will be added to the ban list, and must be ejected manually
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Baker Linden: if that happens when you eject someone now, then yes, that will happen
[2013/11/07 16:03]  TankMaster Finesmith: have a good weekend, maestro, baker, and caleb
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Jonathan Yap: I can see how this is complicated
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Maestro Linden: Thanks for coming!
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Jonathan Yap: Thank you Lindens
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Baker Linden: I don't know how to get around the whole "eject" nonsense with the two required abilities
[2013/11/07 16:03]  ac14 Hutson: see ya !
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Margithe: Thanks for letting us run the show ;)
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Baker Linden: sorry, not nonsense
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Lindens.
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Rex Cronon: tc maestro, baker, caleb and everybody esle
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Baker Linden: but the problem where you need two abilities to eject anyone higher than "everyone"
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Ardy Lay: "You are no longer permitted to be here"  Prepare to hit the road in 15 seconds."
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Rex Cronon: have a nice all
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Caleb Linden: yw
[2013/11/07 16:03]  Jenna Felton: thanks for the meeting Lindens and have good weekend all
[2013/11/07 16:04]  rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1