Bug triage/2007-07-24/Transcript

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Agenda

The following transcript is slightly edited for easy reading.

Contents

Opening

lufpleh Obstreperous: anyone got the URL for the agenda
Daedalus Young: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
lufpleh Obstreperous: ta
Torley Linden: Heyhey!
Daedalus Young: hi Torley
Squirrel Wood: Holla ^^
Torley Linden: How's everyone doin'?
Daedalus Young: doing ood, thanks
Daedalus Young: good
Daedalus Young: how are you?
Squirrel Wood: phyne, phyne ^^
Torley Linden: I'll have a seat but I'll gladly give it up if we get packed.
Torley Linden: "Phyne", that's a great spelling.
Squirrel Wood: Mellonhead ^^
Squirrel Wood: Hellos ^^
Daedalus Young: hi
Benjamin Linden: hi Squirrel
Torley Linden: OMG It's Ben!
Benjamin Linden: hi Daedalus
Benjamin Linden: hey Torley :-)
Torley Linden: Yes, I'm a literal Melonhead today.
Torley Linden: Heyhey Ben!
Benjamin Linden: lol
Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839 *shameless plug* XD
Benjamin Linden: let's give folks a couple minutes to arrive
Saijanai Kuhn speculates on what kind of kanooding would worry an ant...
Saijanai Kuhn: I tried to TP here and the viewer crashed. inermittent issues HA!
Saijanai Kuhn: '-)
Benjamin Linden: hi Saijanai
Torley Linden: It's the sad lil bot Iridium!
Saijanai Kuhn: morning.
Iridium Linden: Hiya, can't see but I'm bumping into stuff, lol.
Benjamin Linden: hey Iridium
Torley Linden: Good to be here with you all.
Torley Linden: Sounds just like a robot. Haw-haw!
Iridium Linden: Sorry I'm late.
Saijanai Kuhn relieves rezzing pressure on sim...
Iridium Linden: Hi Alissa!
Alissa Sabre: Hi
Benjamin Linden: oh hey Alissa, I didn't see you sitting over there
Benjamin Linden: welcome, it's great to have you!
Torley Linden: This place looks so badass with WindLight.
Alissa Sabre: lol
Iridium Linden: I meant to talk to you! We're gonna start up the Internationalization triage later this week.
Iridium Linden: I hope you can make it.
Torley Linden: Yeah, thanks for all your Internationalization help, Alissa!
Saijanai Kuhn: so what is the verdict on teh Queen's Qnglish build?
Benjamin Linden: yes, your submissions have been a huge help, Alissa
Torley Linden: I appreciate that we have such nice contributors here...
Alissa Sabre: I wrote a page on I18N issues, but I'm not sure it's worth having a specialized triage
Alissa Sabre: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Alissa_Sabre/I18N_Issues
Iridium Linden: I think it is, although perhaps a monthly one instead of a weekly one.
Dzonatas Sol: Hi
Daedalus Young: hi
Alissa Sabre: Hi, Dzon
Benjamin Linden: hey Dzonatas
Torley Linden: Squirrel yeah that one I hope to get to the Voice Team's attention, prolly today!
Iridium Linden: Hiya, Aric!
Torley Linden: Hey Aric!
Benjamin Linden: hey there Aric
Aric Linden: hi all
Dzonatas Sol: Hi Aric
Saijanai Kuhn: That place is confusing
Alissa Sabre: Are we starting?
Benjamin Linden: yes, let's get started
Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839
Torley Linden: I was just watching some of Daedalus' video bug repros.
Daedalus Young: ooh cool
Torley Linden: =D
Benjamin Linden: video repros are great!
Benjamin Linden: ok folks let's get started
Iridium Linden: kk
Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839 has a video attached :p
Benjamin Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
Saijanai Kuhn: A quick question. I was testing the reponsiveness of the Mac client so I created a newbie avatar and parked it in Orientation Island.
Saijanai Kuhn: (ot to mention 2 clients running lags the system like you wouldn't believe)
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai, let's discuss OI on Thursday
Saijanai Kuhn: Great
Benjamin Linden: thanks
Benjamin Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
Benjamin Linden: there's the agenda
Saijanai Kuhn: np
Benjamin Linden: which just a quick note for folks, the agenda is on the wiki, so feel free to go in and edit it if there are bugs you'd like to have discussed
Iridium Linden: Oh, nice. You guys made changes.
Iridium Linden: Thanks.
Benjamin Linden: excellent :-)
Dzonatas Sol: =)
Iridium Linden: I see Nicholaz' note there.
Iridium Linden: If you find new issues which might be suitable for solution through open source programmers (many UI isses tend to fall into that category) pleaes add them to/link them from VWR-1577 (Nicholaz 06:59, 20 July 2007 (PDT))
Benjamin Linden: yes, too bad he's not here :-)
Iridium Linden: Yeah, he's in Germany so ...
Iridium Linden: Timing isn't ideal.
Daedalus Young: hm well, that's next door to me
Iridium Linden: lol.
Benjamin Linden: yeah it should be evening there
Torley Linden: Yeah, I was checking out that Meta-Issue that Nicholaz did... good idea.
Daedalus Young: 7 pm

Bugfix Patches

VWR-546: Using inspect interfers with mouse usage

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-546
Iridium Linden: so that's our first patch.
Squirrel Wood: germany... it's aboot 7:15pm there now.
Benjamin Linden: wow, this meta-issue is very cool.
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - Using inspect interfers with mouse usage.
Torley Linden: I believe Rob Linden is going to be adding a formal Meta-Issue state so these things are easier to search for.
Squirrel Wood: that one's got pretty clear repro steps
Benjamin Linden: I was confused about this one because Nicholaz said he fixed it even though he couldn't repro it
Daedalus Young: yeah, very easy to repro
Benjamin Linden: ok if it's an easy repro and there's a patch we should import it
Torley Linden: I just repro'ed it myself.
Alissa Sabre: Has anybody tested the patch?
Daedalus Young: Nicholaz didn't test it all, it seems
Benjamin Linden: Alissa, it will be tested internally
Alissa Sabre: Ok. Fine.
Torley Linden: OK, I'll import it.
Benjamin Linden: hey Torley, when you import, you're assigning to BeenTriaged right?
Torley Linden: Sure am Benjamin!
Torley Linden: With our fave "RxTriage" tag too!

Benjamin Linden: hey Alexa!
Iridium Linden: Hey, Dzonatas.
Iridium Linden: Glad you could make it.
Torley Linden: That sound good to you Ben?
Benjamin Linden: sounds good Torley, thanks!
Torley Linden: NP!
Benjamin Linden: ok let's move on

VWR-1721: GUI quirk in groups

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1721
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - GUI quirk in groups
Daedalus Young: it's a bit slow to load for me...
Torley Linden: PJIRA's crawling a bit for me right now too.
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1721
Dzonatas Sol: ty Iridium
Benjamin Linden: yes, same here
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - GUI quirk in groups
Daedalus Young: Groups window takes focus
Torley Linden: Soft's already on that one, VWR-1721. Imported.
Torley Linden: (I mean, it was already imported!)

Feature Request (w/o patch)

MISC-82: New Feature -> UI -> IM -> Teleport (other person) Button

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-82
Iridium Linden: - Votes: 27 - New Feature -> UI -> IM -> Teleport (other person) Button
Aric Linden: pjira is crawling today.
Benjamin Linden: yes it is, Aric
Benjamin Linden: I just finished reading it and Iridium already moved on! :-)
Torley Linden: This one's been around awhile...
Benjamin Linden: I'll talk to Rob
Torley Linden: It's a "New Feature", not a bug.
Torley Linden: Hrmmm...
Iridium Linden: Right, we're on New Feature Patches.
Benjamin Linden: right Torley, we're doing patches first
Iridium Linden: Feature Request Patches
Torley Linden: I don't see a patch attached to it though.
Iridium Linden: Ah, perhaps it was placed incorrectly.
Benjamin Linden: ha, you're right Torley
Alissa Sabre: It's a new feature, without patches, but with a lot of votes
Dzonatas Sol: its linked to the OS meta issue
Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps that's the feature request for? they want a patch ^^
Iridium Linden: Let's move on then, yeah?
Torley Linden: I can leave a comment saying that an Open Source contributor is welcome to patch this if they'd want.
Benjamin Linden: I can see how this was confusing for people editing the agenda
Torley Linden: Sounds good to move on.
Benjamin Linden: because we don't have a section in the agenda for feature requests w/out patches
Benjamin Linden: Iridium can you add that in so people know where to put these kinds of issues?
Iridium Linden: Hmm, should have been on the template.
Iridium Linden: The others have patches.
Saijanai Kuhn: feature requests without patches aren't considered?
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai, we will eventually look at feature requests w/out patches
Benjamin Linden: but we want to get through bugs first
Saijanai Kuhn: OK, so its a priority thing

Feature Request Patches

VWR-1825: Change Request: Change double click action for various inventory items

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1825
Daedalus Young: 1825, and more specifically 1826 and 1827, if I understood correctly
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1825, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1826
Iridium Linden: Yeah, shoulda been there.
Daedalus Young: same as discussed last week, double-clicking should not open properties
Benjamin Linden: right
Daedalus Young: but now for landmarks directly teleporting
Torley Linden: I know Coco Linden would be interested in this too -- she's mentioned some similar UI improvements.
Torley Linden: I'll ping her to take a look at this later.
Iridium Linden: Done
Iridium Linden: Shall we look at 1825?
Daedalus Young: and auto-wearing "Linden-provided attachments"
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1825
Aric Linden: isn't double clicking a platform specific convention?
Dzonatas Sol: A few of the double-click cases probally can change. Landmarks would be a good one.
Benjamin Linden: do these have patches?
Benjamin Linden: I don't see them...
Alissa Sabre: It used to be, but seems common these days.
Daedalus Young: the patches are in 1825?
Torley Linden: Looks like the patches were included in the Descriptions of VWR-1826 and VWR-1827.
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1826
Torley Linden: They aren't actual attachments but inline text.
Benjamin Linden: ack Pjira is killing me!
Daedalus Young: ah yes, in the issue description
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1827
Torley Linden: This sounds like an overarching sort of project which needs to be thought through and we should probably get more internal RX feedback on this. That's my feeling.
Daedalus Young: Nicholaz adds: "(if the suggestion is accepted, of course I can submit a proper patch file)."
Benjamin Linden: hang on guys, I'm getting behind because of Pjira
Dzonatas Sol: 1826 is already imported
Torley Linden: It was imported by Sardonyx Linden... hmmm...
Daedalus Young: 1826 is landmarks tping directly
Torley Linden: I'll ask him what he thinks of the others too.
Torley Linden: *makes internal comment*
Benjamin Linden: you're right Torley, we should discuss this more broadly
Benjamin Linden: let's talk about it at the rx meeting on thursday
Benjamin Linden: so are all three of these issues related?
Benjamin Linden: 1825, 1826, 1827
Aric Linden: seems so to me, benjamin
Benjamin Linden: oh I see, they're the subtasks
Iridium Linden: Great, so 1826 is imported and we'll revisit the others, yes?
Daedalus Young: yes
Benjamin Linden: so Nicholaz included the patch in the comments
Dzonatas Sol: =)
Benjamin Linden: sounds good Iridium
Iridium Linden: 1825 is the parent task?
Benjamin Linden: yes
Dzonatas Sol: yes, 1825


Other Bug Reports

VWR-1664: Selecting "Cancel" during TP process leaves avatar motionless

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1664
Iridium Linden: Great, 1664.
Squirrel Wood: 1664.... freezes you in place and also prevents further Teleport attempts.
Iridium Linden: Votes: 5 - Selecting "Cancel" during TP process leaves avatar motionless
Daedalus Young: (good thing about browsing with tabs, having the next few issues open already :P )
Iridium Linden: Thanks, Swuirrel.
Iridium Linden: Squirrel*
Squirrel Wood: ^^
Daedalus Young: 1664 has LLID already
Benjamin Linden: waiting for pjira...
Torley Linden: Arghhhh yes VWR-1664, I am familiar with this! It's related to the double teleport screen bug!
Squirrel Wood: yeup
Torley Linden: We have a solid repro via SVC-438 linked...
Benjamin Linden: wow, sounds like this has been frustrating you Torley
Dzonatas Sol: 1664 is imported... any repro?
Benjamin Linden: it's been imported already?
Dzonatas Sol: ah!
Torley Linden: Haha, yes. Long story short, this is on Studio Blacklight's watchlist.
Torley Linden: It's been imported and approved.
Benjamin Linden: this is really less of a UI issue
Benjamin Linden: ok let's move on then
Alissa Sabre: It has no patch...
Torley Linden: Yeah, this is server-side.
Iridium Linden: So this one is imported.
Benjamin Linden: I think we're past the patches now Alisaa
Alissa Sabre: Ok.

VWR-749: Bandwidth indicator: Kbps, should not have capital k

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-749
Iridium Linden: Votes: 3 - Bandwidth indicator: Kbps, should not have capital k
Saijanai Kuhn: ?
Daedalus Young: yes, kilo is k, Mega is M
Alissa Sabre: I don't care this one...
Torley Linden: Yeah, that should be lowercase. Looks like a simple change.
Saijanai Kuhn: kBytes?
Torley Linden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kbps
Daedalus Young: just a bit of Standards
Torley Linden: " Unfortunately, many people incorrectly use 'K' when they should use 'k'. "
Squirrel Wood: heh. the bandwidth graph on ctrl-shift-1 should also adjust its scale to match the top bandwidth usage ^^
Daedalus Young: yes, kilobytes is kB
Torley Linden: Should be a simple string change I am reckoning.
Daedalus Young: me thinks so too
Torley Linden: Sounds good to import it and put it in our Rx pool, Ben?
Benjamin Linden: where in the UI is this?
Daedalus Young: hover your mouse over the bandwidth indicator top right
Dzonatas Sol: kiBps... hehe
Daedalus Young: well, KibiBytes would be KiB
Benjamin Linden: I think I have some debug setting on because I only see the xml filename
Torley Linden: I'll attach as creenshot.
Aric Linden: Ben, if you have the history window up, it won't work
Benjamin Linden: ok, thanks Torley
Alissa Sabre: Hmm. On my screen, the string is translated
Saijanai Kuhn: actually the wiki says k = 1,000 while K = 1,024
Saijanai Kuhn: shrug
Daedalus Young: well, k=1000, Ki = 1024
Benjamin Linden: ok let's move on
Iridium Linden: So where are we?
Squirrel Wood: Just measure bandwidth in pebbles per square mile ?
Alissa Sabre: k = 1000 is defined by official standards, but Ki = 1024 is not, I believe
Iridium Linden: Keeping the k?

Tao Takashi: Hi
Benjamin Linden: hi Tao
Iridium Linden: Hi Tao!
Iridium Linden: Thanks for coming.

VWR-1408: Online status viewable via Groups even if "Make my online status visible only to my Friends" is set

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1408
Benjamin Linden: egad Pjira is slow
Dzonatas Sol: Not an easy change on the UI side
Dzonatas Sol: i just saw another issue like this...
Torley Linden: *waits for VWR-1408 to come up, that number looks familiar to me!*
Daedalus Young: Online status viewable via Groups even if "Make my online status visible only to my Friends" is set
Torley Linden: Ahhh yeah that's a longtime "workaround", how you can use Group members list to see when someone's last been online.
Benjamin Linden: let's import it, sounds like something we should at least discuss
Torley Linden: *nod*
Benjamin Linden: I'm curious to check out this meta-issue on privacy
Iridium Linden: So importing 1408.
Iridium Linden: ?\
Torley Linden: Yes.
Torley Linden: Imported already.
Squirrel Wood: Ummmmmmm
Squirrel Wood: I guess the same thing applies to lists of people in the current chat session then

VWR-584: Show Avatar Names Temporarily - nonfunctional

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-584
Aric Linden: nods at iridium
Iridium Linden: Awesome.
Iridium Linden: otes: 2 - Show Avatar Names Temporarily - nonfunctional
Dzonatas Sol: 584 is borderline.. UI and dialog code
Daedalus Young: 584 does work for me, but it used to be different
Benjamin Linden: what does this setting do?
Dzonatas Sol: How much of the dialog code does the UI team get into?
Benjamin Linden: Dzonatas, what do you mean by "dialog code"?
Daedalus Young: when somebody has been out of view, the tag should reappear
Torley Linden: VWR-584 should have more of a solid repro!
Aric Linden: Torley, I agree.
Aric Linden: Sounds to me as though there's a conflicting anecdotal views on how this should work
Benjamin Linden: are we talking about in the Participant list in the chatterbox?
Daedalus Young: possibly yes
Torley Linden: Yeah... it's working for me right now.
Benjamin Linden: I don't understand the issue
Saijanai Kuhn: isn't that server related? Could be lag, could be database, could be anything
Aric Linden: could be update latency too
Torley Linden: Benjamin, this is Preferences > General Tab > Show Names' "Show Temporarily".
Dzonatas Sol: Benjamin, the UI is like a layer on top of the dialog code... the dialog code control the the behind the scene actions. I'm sure there is different terminology used.
Torley Linden: I suggest we can resolve this as "Needs More Info".
Iridium Linden: So shall we mark this as "needs more solid repro" and move on?
Aric Linden: Or that we need solid definition of the expected behavior
Benjamin Linden: I think it's a little of both Aric
Torley Linden: The current and expected behavior I'm aware of is: if "Show Temporarily" is on, then when you enter a new region with avatars, their names will appear for a few secs... and then fade away.
lufpleh Obstreperous: names not appearing for me!! used to be you would rotate view and they would appear then fade
Torley Linden: Names, meaning, the tags above their heads inworld.
Benjamin Linden: we could go ahead and import this for further investigation
Benjamin Linden: we can close it if it's working correctly
lufpleh Obstreperous: yes
Torley Linden waits for the Issue Tracker to load...
Alissa Sabre: Hi, Vixen
Benjamin Linden: lol yeah it's soooo slow today
Aric Linden: Benjamin, i think it's worth a conversation with Rx and QA to figure out how it works and how you want it to work
Benjamin Linden: agreed, Aric, let's take this one up offline
Iridium Linden: So we're importing 584 or 645?
lufpleh Obstreperous: thought the idea was to reduce screen clutter
Benjamin Linden: Torley can you import it with a note to that effect
Benjamin Linden: this is 584, Iridium
Iridium Linden: kk, so then we're ready to move on.

VWR-645: Sit, then click on self: camera pans but does not tilt

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-645
Dzonatas Sol: I'm just unclear on how much or deep into the code the UI teams work on
Iridium Linden: Votes: 2 - Sit, then click on self: camera pans but does not tilt
Benjamin Linden: yes, thanks!
Torley Linden: Yes, will do.
Dzonatas Sol leaving a comment to ask for sys info
Daedalus Young: 645, I didn't even know that was possible, if you stand and click on yourself, you can rotate and zoom in and out on yourself
Benjamin Linden: I've seen this behavior
Daedalus Young: but sitting it only moves the cam around you, not zooming
Benjamin Linden: it may be by-design but let's import it to dig a little deeper
Aric Linden: this may be a "limitation" of sitting.
Daedalus Young: yes, ctrl+alt+arrow keys used to be broken a good while ago too
Benjamin Linden: that's what I'm not sure about, Aric, we should find out. personally I don't see any reason not to tilt while sitting
Aric Linden: benjamin, agreed
Benjamin Linden: ok cool, let's go on then
Dzonatas Sol: It appears if you move the mouse before you do alt/ctrl type pan that it gets stuck
Dzonatas Sol: *than

VWR-1667: Profile "My Notes" tab - contents replaced by "Loading..." if you close it before it displays the actual contents

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1667
Iridium Linden: So we'll mark that one "won't fix?"
Benjamin Linden: which one Iridium?
Iridium Linden: 645
Benjamin Linden: no, please mark that imported
Iridium Linden: Ah, kk.
Torley Linden: OK, imported.
Benjamin Linden: thanks guys
Iridium Linden: Votes: 2 - Profile "My Notes" tab - contents replaced by "Loading..." if you close it before it displays the actual contents
Benjamin Linden: so this next one sounds really bad!
Torley Linden: I'll let Rob know about the slow Issue Tracker performance too.
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1667
Torley Linden: My Notes has had many problems for a long time.
Benjamin Linden: Rob is out this week or I would've gone and punched him on the shoulder already :-)
Torley Linden: One of them has been, sometimes after a release, people find out their My Notes on other people have been cleared.
Torley Linden: Heh Benjamin.
Alissa Sabre: I have a feeling that this issue is related to VWR-423
Alissa Sabre: 423 is a bug of LLTextEditor control
Benjamin Linden: Alissa, could you add a link
Benjamin Linden: if you think it's related
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-423
Alissa Sabre: I think, but I'm not sure yet...
Iridium Linden: Selecting group charter text causes Apply/Ignore/Cancel popup even if the text wasn't changed
Iridium Linden: Already linked to VWR-1187
Alissa Sabre: The bug essentially says that LLTextEditor invokes onCommit too often
Alissa Sabre: or invokes it when it is unnecessary.
Alissa Sabre: That's the heart of the bug.
Benjamin Linden: I see, ok let's go ahead and import this one
Torley Linden: Thanks for the info... *imports*
Benjamin Linden: we can link it up as needed later
Benjamin Linden: Alissa, maybe you could just add a comment about the other potentially related issues
Alissa Sabre: Ok.
Torley Linden: Part of the longtime prob with My Notes is you have no way to see which notes you've made on other people unless you remember precisely who they are. There's no way to easily list 'em -- just saying that for context. :)
Torley Linden: It's kind of a half-baked feature.
Iridium Linden: Okay, so importing and moving on, yes?

VWR-298: Practically impossible to enter Japanese text when viewer is running full-screen on MacOS

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-298
Benjamin Linden: a future rx agenda item!
Torley Linden: Hehe!
Torley Linden: *waits patiently*
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - Practically impossible to enter Japanese text when viewer is running full-screen on MacOS
Iridium Linden: Oh, lol, Torley. JIRA is super slow, grr.
Dzonatas Sol: sounds like it doesn't know when to refresh
Aric Linden: I think this might actually be related to something that we found last week
Dzonatas Sol: to kotoeri
Iridium Linden: We should also talk about this at the internationalization triage.
Torley Linden: While I don't have a way to repro this here, Alissa, it sounds like this is a clear repro from what you've experienced.
Aric Linden: The input focus isn't set properly
Benjamin Linden: yes, this is more related to i18n
Squirrel Wood: Alissa Sabre - 24/Jul/07 09:03 AM I'm working on Japanese (and Chinese/Korean, hopefully) input improvements. If I can successfully solve VWR-250, this VWR-298 will be solved, too!
Alissa Sabre: Sorry, which one are we talking now?
Aric Linden: 298
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-298
Torley Linden: This should have the Internationalization component added to it.
Torley Linden: *adds*
Alissa Sabre: Ok. THat's mine. :-)
Iridium Linden: hehe, yes, Alissa.
Saijanai Kuhn: てst
Benjamin Linden: thanks Torley, yes I see your notes in here Alissa
Torley Linden: Alissa: Yes! :D Could you please tag future internationalization issues with the Internationalization component?
Torley Linden: Just so we can find them easier... :o)
Aric Linden: When you import it, please go ahead and assign it to me Torley. I'll have keiko look at it
Torley Linden: Sure, will do Aric.
Benjamin Linden: thanks Aric
Aric Linden: I'm pretty sure it's related to the issue we found last week.
Saijanai Kuhn: The Mac has its own window for intermediate international input.
Alissa Sabre: Ok. As I noticed.
Aric Linden: NP
Iridium Linden: So we'll import this one cause it has a clear repro and also discuss it at the internationalization triage?
Benjamin Linden: sounds good Iridium
Alissa Sabre: It has a solid repro, but I believe fixing it is not an easy task
Alissa Sabre: Ah, I said on 298

VWR-1457: Friend Online/Offline pop up steals focus from Inventory scrolling

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1457
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - Friend Online/Offline pop up steals focus from Inventory scrolling.
Torley Linden: Ah yeah, VWR-1457 is OLD!
Benjamin Linden: I've not experienced 1457 myself
Torley Linden: I remember that in 2004. But then I turned off friend status notifications.
Daedalus Young: can't remember
Benjamin Linden: haha Torley, do we have an internal bug for this already?
Torley Linden: Good question, maybe a long time ago, but I don't remember seeing it.
Torley Linden: We can import and then I'll close dupes later as I find them.
Torley Linden: Sound good?
Iridium Linden: Sounds good to me.
Benjamin Linden: sounds great
Aric Linden: sounds fine to me, Torley
Torley Linden: K... *imports*

VWR-1541: Shortcut key Ctrl-` cannot be entered on Japanese version of Windows with 104 keyboard

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1541
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - Shortcut key Ctrl-` cannot be entered on Japanese version of Windows with 104 keyboard
Iridium Linden: This is also one for Internationalization.
Alissa Sabre: Partly I18N
Squirrel Wood: Ctrl-` <= impossible to enter on german keyboards
Torley Linden: Intriguing; that's snapshot key!
Alissa Sabre: but I think it is more a short cut problem
Alissa Sabre: Generally speaking, SL Viewer has too many short cuts.
Benjamin Linden: I agree Alissa
Alissa Sabre: and they crushes with other shortcuts.
Benjamin Linden: but people love their shortcuts :-)
Daedalus Young: hmm, I like using shortcuts
Alissa Sabre: This is just an example
Daedalus Young: helps prevent rsi
Alissa Sabre: "THeir short cut" that's the point.
Daedalus Young: I use the snapshot shortcut all the time
Torley Linden: What would be a better snapshot shortcut? (I'm very sensitive about this because I take snapshots so often!)
Alissa Sabre: In my experience, application programs having a lot of short cut
Alissa Sabre: allows user customization
Aric Linden: Well, just to be clear, it's very, very difficult for us to test and implement on every keyboard.
Benjamin Linden: so I do know that at some point in the future we want to create a true key-mapping feature
Daedalus Young: it's a very convenient keystroke on Mac keyboards too
Saijanai Kuhn: configureable shortcults...
Torley Linden: Remember with the snapshot shortcut, there's also a subtlety with the Mac.
Benjamin Linden: which is really the right way to address this
Saijanai Kuhn: as opposed to longcults
Aric Linden: agrees with Benjamuin
Aric Linden: *Benjamin
Torley Linden: Yeah, I'd prefer "true key-mapping" too.
Daedalus Young: customizable would be great
Alissa Sabre: I support the idea of customizable short cuts, too
Torley Linden: In the meantime I know you can use a macro program to work around probs like this.
Benjamin Linden: is there a simple fix for this now or should we mark as won't fix
Benjamin Linden: Torley, maybe you could note that in the bug
Torley Linden: Yes, *adds comment*
Alissa Sabre: This particular short cut is to take a screen shot,
Alissa Sabre: and there are other short cuts too.
Saijanai Kuhn: when people see "won't fix" it makes them quite angry
Saijanai Kuhn: explanation for "won't fix" is essential
Benjamin Linden: I agree, Saijanai
Iridium Linden: So where are we on 1541?
Alissa Sabre: Can we say "We are going to a customizable short cut in a future" today?
Iridium Linden: We should try to get a few more in before we wrap up.
Benjamin Linden: I think explaining that we want to address shortcuts holistically with a true keymapping feature and adding torley's workaround should be adequate
Torley Linden: OK, I'll explain that in the comments.
Benjamin Linden: thanks Torley
Alissa Sabre: Great.
Torley Linden: And we should mark it as "Won't Fix"?
Iridium Linden: Won't fix and see task for explanation.
Benjamin Linden: yes, won't fix

VWR-719: Money dialogs missing after group notifications

Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-719
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - Money dialogs missing after group notifications
Torley Linden: Got it, will do.
Daedalus Young: yep, well missing, more hidden
Squirrel Wood: Put a big red button in the center of the screen that takes up 50% of the screen area and on clicking that one have it snapshot the current view and of course exclude the area it covers on screen ;)
Dzonatas Sol: 719 - I wonder if the pop-up order that was imported earlier will have any affect on this
Daedalus Young: money dialog - group notice - money dialog, get it in that order and the first money dialog will not show after closing the other 2
Squirrel Wood: I don't make enough money to have ever noticed that one
Benjamin Linden: I was wondering that too Dzonatas
Iridium Linden: lmfao, Squirrel.
Daedalus Young: it will be back once you get another money dialog though
Aric Linden: sounds as though focus isn't being set consistently
Daedalus Young: I've noticed more quirks in these popups
Benjamin Linden: I'm not exactly sure I understand the problem, it sounds like it's related to the way the popus are queued
Daedalus Young: like after a money dialog, the first group notice doesn't have the yellow >>> icon
Squirrel Wood: humm. its tuesday... and it looks like the stipends did not yet pay out? could that be?
Dzonatas Sol: Is it just appearance or are they really gone?
Aric Linden: It seems as though focus order isn't remembered consistently and remembered
Torley Linden: Ah the yellow chevron used to cycle between pop-ups?
Daedalus Young: I get no stipends, so no :P
Benjamin Linden: Aric, is the repro good enough on this to import?
Benjamin Linden: yes, Torley
Daedalus Young: I can work on a video repro if needed
Torley Linden: Also just FYI for official reasons we consistencize on calling Linden dollars, "L$", not "money". Legal issues involved with that. :)
Benjamin Linden: that would be helpful Daedalus
Torley Linden: Yeah you've done a lot of great ones Daedalus.
Aric Linden: A video repro would help, but I think there's sufficient info to start with here.
Daedalus Young: thanks, hope it's helpful :)
Iridium Linden: kk, so we need to change the language here and import, yes?
Dzonatas Sol: Torley, true, but LSL has money() =p
Benjamin Linden: yes, let's go ahead and import this
Torley Linden: Dzon, we've wanted to change that for awhile.
Aric Linden: It's not really a UI issue per se, I think, but rather an issue with how focus is being set and tracked
Torley Linden: *imports*
Daedalus Young: and llGiveMoney()

VWR-444: "My Active Title" drop-down does not refresh when role changes

Iridium Linden: Do we have time for one more?
Benjamin Linden: let's do one more and wrap it up for today
Iridium Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-444
Iridium Linden: Votes: 1 - "My Active Title" drop-down does not refresh when role changes
Torley Linden: Lots of 4's, that's my lucky number.
Dzonatas Sol grins lightly
Alissa Sabre: (In Japan, 4 is considered an evil number...)
Torley Linden: Alissa: Yeah, for Chinese too... "death"
Dzonatas Sol: is this fixed now, i think it is an old issue?
Dzonatas Sol at 444
Dzonatas Sol: oh it is on the group window
Benjamin Linden: yes
Torley Linden: Hmm another Groups prob.
Squirrel Wood: *shameless plug* VOTE for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1250 ^^
Benjamin Linden: this seems like a reasonably good repro, let's just take it
Torley Linden: But I thought that was what the Group Information Refresh button was for?
Squirrel Wood: and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839 too while you're at it XD
Torley Linden: (As Gigs describes.)
Iridium Linden: So we'll import?
Torley Linden: There's a number of things in the Group Info which require the Refresh button to update; as I recall, it was very difficult to keep everything updating in realtime.
Benjamin Linden: sounds like Torley has some reservations
Torley Linden: I'd suggest import it and asking someone who was involved with the Groups overhaul last year.
Torley Linden: E.g., Don, Kelly, Jwolk.
Aric Linden: Makes sense to me to try that
Benjamin Linden: ok, Brent would know too
Torley Linden: Yeah...
Torley Linden: *imports*

Closing

Tao Takashi: maybe a bit more active then ;-)
Tao Takashi is off again ... see you next time :)
Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming Tao!
Iridium Linden: Bye, Tao!
Dzonatas Sol: woot... nice work all
Torley Linden: Yeah wow that felt good!
Aric Linden: thanks all.
Benjamin Linden: thanks for your help, everyone!
Iridium Linden: Let's bump the others to the top of next week's agenda, kk?
Benjamin Linden: don't forget to get in there and edit the agenda before next week
Squirrel Wood: Oh my.
Benjamin Linden: yes, sounds good Iridium
Dzonatas Sol: 17 covered during this hours.. more before this
Squirrel Wood: Good work ^^
Benjamin Linden: cool!
Dzonatas Sol: take care
Torley Linden: Yes thanks so much for coming and being with us!
Iridium Linden: Bye, Dz!
Alan45 Beck: Can some one help with a noob question?
Daedalus Young: thank you guys too!
Alissa Sabre: Ah, Vixen, may I talk?
Benjamin Linden: thanks folks, see you on thursday!
Alissa Sabre: Oops
Iridium Linden: Are we having 2 Rx meetings a week now, Benjamin?
Alissa Sabre: Bye
Iridium Linden: Bye, Alissa?
Iridium Linden: So soon?
Iridium Linden: :)
Alissa Sabre: Ah
Benjamin Linden: I have my other office hour on thursday
Benjamin Linden: open discussion
Iridium Linden: Ah, kk.
Benjamin Linden: you're welcome to come!

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