Bug triage/2007-08-06/Transcript

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Agenda Transcript of Bridie Linden's office hours:

[15:01] Sidewinder Linden: hi rob
[15:01] Daedalus Young: hi
[15:01] Bridie Linden: hi folks
[15:01] Benja Kepler: hiya
[15:02] Soft Linden: Hey hey!
[15:02] Sidewinder Linden: hi soft
[15:02] Daedalus Young: VWR-315
[15:02] Daedalus Young: try it now ;)
[15:02] Sidewinder Linden: hmm the url on the msvc box seems to be broken...
[15:02] Sidewinder Linden: there we go
[15:03] Soft Linden: VWR-315 looks good, but was hoping Gigs was here to explain the patch. Can ping out of band.
[15:03] Aric Linden: hello
[15:03] yukiko Omegamu: hello
[15:03] Daedalus Young: hi
[15:04] Aric Linden: /can we use voice for this meeting?
[15:04] Aric Linden: /I guess not.
[15:04] Aric Linden: grins
[15:04] Daedalus Young: I can listen prob to Voice, but don't have the setup to talk back
[15:04] Soft Linden: I spy three folks without dots
[15:04] Aric Linden: yep
[15:04] Benja Kepler: not me
[15:05] Aric Linden: /noticed that as well.
[15:05] Aric Linden: ok. let's stick with typing
[15:05] Aric Linden: /shall we start?
[15:05] Aric Linden: let me get the agenda up
[15:06] Bridie Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Monday_Agenda
[15:06] Aric Linden: so it looked as though you were discussing 315 as I arrived,, Yes?
[15:07] Daedalus Young: not really, I just typed that number to get the box working
[15:07] Bridie Linden: only just barely
[15:07] Daedalus Young: as it's the 1st on the agenda
[15:07] Aric Linden: let's start there then
[15:07] Rob Linden fixes agenda to take me off as host

[15:07] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-315
[15:08] Benja Kepler: annoying bug
[15:08] Soft Linden: We discussed, agreed to do VWR-315 internally this AM
[15:08] Aric Linden: ahh. ok. let's go on then
[15:09] Wyn Galbraith: Bridie flies in.
[15:09] Wyn Galbraith: Nice landing.
[15:09] Bridie Linden: ugh!
[15:09] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-257
[15:09] yukiko Omegamu giggles love the tag birdie ;)

[15:10] Bridie Linden: :)
[15:10] Soft Linden: If WEB-257 goes in, should go to ops
[15:10] Soft Linden: Lots of traceroutes in there
[15:10] Soft Linden: They'll <3 that
[15:11] Sidewinder Linden: looks solid enough to figure out...
[15:11] Sidewinder Linden: in terms of description
[15:11] Aric Linden: /i can't tell if the timing of this is related to our outtages or not
[15:12] Aric Linden: seems like it might be outtage related, but I think it's worth sending to ops and asking them to confirm that.
[15:13] Wyn Galbraith: Torley's answer seems to be enough.
[15:13] Aric Linden: ahh. thanks bridie. i didn't get that far.
[15:13] Aric Linden: yes, I agree.
[15:13] Aric Linden: let's resolve and move on.
[15:13] Sidewinder Linden: k
[15:13] Bridie Linden: resolve as?
[15:13] Aric Linden: anyone disagree with that?
[15:14] Wyn Galbraith: Came clear like magic.
[15:14] Wyn Galbraith: ?
[15:14] Bridie Linden: :)
[15:14] Wyn Galbraith: That's a real phone comany code fro Ma Bell. CCLM.
[15:14] Wyn Galbraith: *from
[15:14] yukiko Omegamu: this one here is releaseted too linux some systems get that but some dont
[15:14] Bridie Linden: See Torley's last comment?
[15:15] Aric Linden: resolve as won't fix
[15:15] Aric Linden: /that was for web275
[15:15] Aric Linden: not https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-364
[15:16] Aric Linden: /i'm curious to know if this (364) is still a problem
[15:16] Soft Linden: The two indented ones are probably dupes of the parent. If -257 is going to ops, the other two can be attached
[15:17] Daedalus Young: yes, they appear to be the same issue, but with different versions
[15:17] Aric Linden: Soft, do you think we should send 257 to ops?
[15:17] Daedalus Young: vwr-2005 is for 1.18.1.2
[15:18] Soft Linden: Aric - was looking ahead, sorry - missed that resolution. I'd encourage it though. They'd probably mark it off as resolved, but it's more data if they're chasing anything still lasting.
[15:18] yukiko Omegamu: ive had this issue seems its intermitant and what not but its hard to track whats causeing it
[15:18] Aric Linden: ok. bridie, did you follow that?
[15:18] Aric Linden: I agree with soft.
[15:18] Wyn Galbraith: I've never uninstalled and reinstalled a client, but install first look in a different directory.
[15:18] Bridie Linden: I already resolved as 'won't fix' -- re-open and import 257?
[15:19] Aric Linden: yes, please bridie (sorry for being a dweeb)
[15:19] Bridie Linden: brb...going to go clean up whatever noisy thing is in the vicinity
[15:19] Soft Linden: Yeah. And I'll mention the two subtasks in a comment on that.
[15:21] Entering god mode, level 200

[15:22] Bridie Linden: hi...is that your boat up there?
[15:23] Leaving god mode, level 200

[15:24] Daedalus Young: vwr-2005, same too, but for 1.18
[15:24] Bridie Linden nods

[15:24] yukiko Omegamu: the memory leak isnt effected on windows xp 64
[15:24] Soft Linden: Yeah. I think they're all just caches of DNS issue reports.
[15:25] Dirk Talamasca: good day Thom
[15:25] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-718
[15:26] Thom Mistral: Greetings
[15:26] Dirk Talamasca: This particle issue is an oldie
[15:26] Bridie Linden: Should I move previous issues to be Critical instead of Showstoppers?
[15:26] Aric Linden: yes please
[15:26] Dirk Talamasca: Definitely reproducible quite easily
[15:27] Aric Linden: ahh, but as soft points out, it's a dup. let's resolve it as a dup and move on.
[15:27] Soft Linden: I snuck ahead, marked -718 as a dupe of -418. Ya
[15:27] Dirk Talamasca: smoove
[15:27] Aric Linden: you rawk dood, so we're here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-501 yes?
[15:28] Daedalus Young: this looks like a dupe of the "crash on login (attempt 1)" bug
[15:29] Daedalus Young: also related to DNS issues
[15:29] yukiko Omegamu: also failed login packet is also related too that and causes a crash also
[15:29] Soft Linden: Not sure this one is DNS, but connection reliability.
[15:29] Aric Linden: /agreed
[15:30] Soft Linden: It may be a dupe of the first one Nicholaz links to, but we should check - would vote to import this one
[15:30] Aric Linden: the thing is, we're getting a lot of anecdotal evidence about this with the current release.
[15:30] Soft Linden: Yeah, just for the number of votes
[15:30] Aric Linden: I'd like to import it as well.
[15:30] Aric Linden: /nods
[15:30] Soft Linden: I'll add a note encouraging more repro info though.
[15:31] Aric Linden: thanks soft
[15:31] Aric Linden: it appears that we're up to patches.
[15:31] Bridie Linden: it would be super cool if VWR--1646 is part of the solution. seems plausible
[15:31] Aric Linden: hmm, i can't type that w/out thinking of dodgeball, i'm sorry to say
[15:32] Wyn Galbraith peers at Aric, "I thought I had strange associations.

[15:33] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-749
[15:33] Daedalus Young: we can skip that
[15:33] Aric Linden: ok
[15:33] Daedalus Young: is fixed an hour ago by Sardonyx
[15:34] Bridie Linden can hardly keep up w/her own devs! :)

[15:34] Soft Linden: Actually, all of the patches today are one liners, and we looked at those in a Blacklight meeting this morning and decided they were all safe and quick.
[15:34] Daedalus Young: heehee
[15:35] Aric Linden: It appears to me that 749 is worth importing but that we should do a reasonable amount of internal testing on it
[15:35] Bridie Linden: Did you already import Soft?
[15:35] Soft Linden: Bridie - Some of them. Sardonyx has done his, I think Poppy and I still have some on a list.
[15:35] Soft Linden: I'll ensure they all get tagged if you want.
[15:35] Bridie Linden: i'll check
[15:35] Aric Linden: cool.
[15:36] Aric Linden: should we skip patches?
[15:36] Aric Linden: ?
[15:36] Bridie Linden: VWR-749, VWR-1990. and VWR-1968 have been imported
[15:36] Soft Linden: Aric- yeah.
[15:37] Bridie Linden: VWR-1976 has not
[15:37] Soft Linden: I just zapped that, Rob
[15:37] Bridie Linden: oh, nm
[15:37] Soft Linden: I'll make sure we get those done and check the agenda when we do this next week.
[15:37] Bridie Linden: yup....skip those.
[15:38] Aric Linden: Thanks soft. btw, I won't be here next week. would anyone like to guest host (please note, I'm looking right at rob
[15:38] Soft Linden: (check the agenda and pull any off)
[15:38] Aric Linden: smiles happily
[15:38] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-185
[15:39] Bridie Linden: sure, I can fill in
[15:39] Soft Linden: If Shiny is climbing on board the patch train, maybe it's time to recruit one of them for a guest-hosting session :)
[15:39] Rob Linden thinks Soft makes a very convincing case :)

[15:39] Aric Linden: heheh. I'll talk to Steve about shiny, but in the meantime, Thanks rob. Actually steve and I just had a long time about the patch train, but we didn't get as far as pjira
[15:40] Aric Linden: lol
[15:40] Aric Linden: ok. I'll see if i can find a, hmm, erm, volunteer.
[15:40] Aric Linden: in the mean time https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-185
[15:41] Wyn Galbraith: Volunteer for what?
[15:41] Aric Linden: hosting this meeting next week, Wyn.
[15:41] Aric Linden: 185 is a bug, not definitely not a showstopper, imo
[15:41] Wyn Galbraith: I guess that leaves me out, notaLinden.
[15:41] Benja Kepler: yes, what 'show' is being referred to?
[15:42] Daedalus Young: no, certainly not, looks from what I can see as a link in html not properly closed
[15:42] Bridie Linden: "normal"?
[15:42] Aric Linden: yes. agreed.
[15:42] Aric Linden: and we should import.
[15:42] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-131
[15:43] Benja Kepler: I haven't found pjira too bad - sometimes slow - not always
[15:43] Soft Linden: 131 basically says JIRA is slow. It's not as slow as it was - but it's sure still slow!
[15:43] Bridie Linden: not a showstopper....
[15:44] Aric Linden: Rob, do we host pjira?
[15:44] Bridie Linden: we contract that out. I'm the point of contact with the vendor, though
[15:44] Wyn Galbraith: Is that a typo?
[15:44] Daedalus Young: no, is public JIRA
[15:44] yukiko Omegamu: yes its slow there needs to be come compression on the data upstream
[15:45] Wyn Galbraith: OH! Thanks.
[15:45] Benja Kepler: Wyn, PJIRA is what we use
[15:45] Bridie Linden: it's marked as resolved
[15:45] Aric Linden: i think that's fine personally. anyone else?
[15:45] Wyn Galbraith stops trying to type it in.

[15:45] Soft Linden: pjira = public JIRA, JIRA = internal JIRA in Lindenspeak.
[15:45] Bridie Linden: I forgot to update the agenda, you can move on
[15:45] Soft Linden: Yeah.
[15:45] Daedalus Young: it's already set to Major
[15:45] Soft Linden: Only because the internal one predates the external.
[15:45] yukiko Omegamu: its an issue but not one that is a showstopper
[15:45] Daedalus Young: and the show still goes on indeed
[15:45] Wyn Galbraith: pjira?
[15:45] Aric Linden: /grins at Daedalus
[15:46] Rob Linden is trying to get people to say LLJIRA when they are referring to the in-house version

[15:46] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2019
[15:46] Benja Kepler: sounds Spanish
[15:46] Aric Linden: I'd like to import this and assign it to QA for repro inhouse
[15:46] Benja Kepler: or Welsh
[15:47] Bridie Linden: PJIRA is easier to pronounce -- (some say 'pa-jira')
[15:47] Wyn Galbraith: I figured you were just trying to confuse me.
[15:47] Wyn Galbraith: Like pa-jammas
[15:47] Bridie Linden: LLJIRA is harder to roll off the tongue...
[15:47] yukiko Omegamu: o this one i do got the debugging information for
[15:47] Aric Linden: how about le jira
[15:47] Wyn Galbraith: lala-jira
[15:48] Rob Linden fears he has derailed the conversation

[15:48] yukiko Omegamu: i will upload the information i got for it
[15:48] Aric Linden: Thanks yukiko. that would be great
[15:48] Bridie Linden: ULLL-JIRA
[15:48] Aric Linden: /is doing his best to keep it focused
[15:48] Daedalus Young: lila-jira
[15:48] Wyn Galbraith sorries.

[15:48] Aric Linden: once yukiko has updated with info, i'd like to take this
[15:48] Bridie Linden sorries, too

[15:49] yukiko Omegamu: just have to get my laptop that has the picture on it just give me a few seconds
[15:49] Aric Linden: Thanks!
[15:49] Aric Linden: moving on
[15:50] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1977
[15:50] yukiko Omegamu starts uploading picture

[15:50] Aric Linden: I'd like to import this just for some extra details for the debugging cycle we're currently in
[15:50] Aric Linden: Can this be imported and simply assigned to me please?
[15:50] Bridie Linden: yes sir!
[15:51] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1977
[15:51] Aric Linden: whoops. sorry
[15:52] Daedalus Young: 1921
[15:52] Aric Linden: yep. wrong buffer
[15:52] Aric Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1921
[15:53] Wyn Galbraith: I've run into that when my DSL burps.
[15:53] Soft Linden: The comments on this one all refer to DNS as with that earlier one - I'm not clear if that was the parent issue, or if the comments derailed
[15:54] yukiko Omegamu: this issue is related too more so with wireless connections as this is more common with them
[15:54] Soft Linden: Ah - parent mentions DNS sometimes
[15:54] yukiko Omegamu: ive had this issue a few times with wireless connections
[15:54] Soft Linden: I'll add a link to it in a comment on the imported one.
[15:54] Sidewinder Linden: could this be flaky connection, bad login packet, crash?
[15:54] Sidewinder Linden: crash report only a symptom of the bad connection?
[15:54] Wyn Galbraith thinks so.

[15:55] Sidewinder Linden: esp if it seems to happen more often with wireless
[15:55] Bridie Linden: Import, downgrade to crit and link to 257?
[15:55] Wyn Galbraith: Actually I am wireless most of the time since my desktop is slower than the laptop.
[15:55] Aric Linden: is it worth appending this to the issue we looked at earlier?
[15:55] Sidewinder Linden: not all wireless will have thaqt prob
[15:55] Wyn Galbraith: So it might be wireless connection and not my DSL.
[15:55] Daedalus Young: I am on wireless too, but can't say I've seen this
[15:56] yukiko Omegamu: issue happens with those haveing adsl connections
[15:56] Sidewinder Linden: folks who have rf conflicts with wireless house phones, or that appear only when something else wireless channel hops on to the same channel might see it
[15:56] Soft Linden: Ya, that makes sense Bridie
[15:56] Soft Linden: It's probably just more data for the same issue.
[15:56] Aric Linden: sounds reasonable to me.
[15:57] Wyn Galbraith: I haven't seen that Sidewinder, and we have wireless house phones. I always blamed the DSL but no maybe it's my network and not that.
[15:57] Wyn Galbraith: *now maybe...
[15:57] Aric Linden: one more? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1665
[15:57] Aric Linden: I'd like to import this one and have it assigned to me.
[15:58] Aric Linden: we're looking for repros of this behavior
[15:58] Soft Linden: Note the 945/955 graphics.
[15:58] Wyn Galbraith: I have almost the same setup only it's a Gateway Tablet PC. Same chipset.
[15:58] Wyn Galbraith: I haven't seen that problem.
[15:59] Soft Linden: I used to get hangs all the time from the WGA certified driver. When I upgraded to the driver from Intel's website, SL hangs went away, if that's helpful.
[15:59] Wyn Galbraith: It could be his display drivers. Need to know if he's kept them upgraded.
[15:59] yukiko Omegamu: microsoft has been haveing conflicts with their wga stuff seems their system is going too strict and causeing conflicts with simple stuff
[15:59] Wyn Galbraith: Yeah the Blue screen from Hell with the STOP, it's the chipset.
[16:00] Soft Linden: With the 945/955 it was always a hard lock for me, not even a stop.
[16:00] Aric Linden: I'll also take 1532 and 1208 please
[16:01] Wyn Galbraith: Really? Do yuy havethe lastest drivers, Soft? Are you on XP?
[16:01] Soft Linden: Wyn - that was with WGA drivers. That stopped with XP and drivers straight off Intel's site.
[16:01] Aric Linden: I think that's it folks.
[16:01] Soft Linden: Note on VWR-1532 that's with a G5, not an Intel Mac
[16:01] Aric Linden: I appreciate you coming
[16:02] Benja Kepler: yvw
[16:02] Wyn Galbraith: Ok.
[16:02] Aric Linden: yes soft. we have a bunch of anecdotal reports of voice issues with ppc macs
[16:02] Aric Linden: g4 especially, but g5's also
[16:02] Aric Linden: lot of issues with g4's apparently
[16:02] Sidewinder Linden: i know someone who has two ppc's and has awful choppiness on both
[16:02] Daedalus Young: I have Intel Mac, haven't talked yet, but was able to hear some fine
[16:02] Sidewinder Linden: mostly since the last week or so
[16:02] Aric Linden: yes
[16:03] Sidewinder Linden: if you want the name i'll put it in im - but to who?
[16:03] Aric Linden: that's exactly the issue, sidewinder.
[16:03] Aric Linden: to me please
[16:03] Sidewinder Linden: kk
[16:03] Benja Kepler: ha! couldn't tp away
[16:03] Aric Linden: sidewinder, are they willing to help test?
[16:03] Benja Kepler: logoff next option
[16:03] Sidewinder Linden: i'm sure he would be
[16:03] Aric Linden: ok
[16:03] Aric Linden: thanks.
[16:04] Aric Linden: i'll let QA know
[16:04] Sidewinder Linden: "tell him i sent ya" ;)
[16:04] Aric Linden grins

[16:04] Aric Linden: thanks dood
[16:04] Soft Linden: I wonder if the vivox daemon doesn't just need higher priority. The PPC-based macs are going to spend soooooo much time inside GL and on a single core, that the system might not be scheduling down SL for constant CPU use. The vivox daemons could end up starved for CPU.
[16:04] Sidewinder Linden: heh - ppl search is offline?
[16:04] Sidewinder Linden: soft - that's what it sounded like to me
[16:05] Sidewinder Linden: sounded like the voice process was getting starved by something
[16:05] Aric Linden: soft, in qa we've been discussing whether it was a pipe issue, a cpu issur or a combination,
[16:05] Sidewinder Linden: didn't know if it was sl or some other process or antivirus or some such on his machine
[16:05] Soft Linden: I'd try manually renicing SL after it starts up and seeing if that doesn't cure it, Aric
[16:05] Soft Linden: If so, should be a simple fix.
[16:05] Soft Linden: After it starts up and after voice dots appear, rather.
[16:06] Wyn Galbraith: People seach worked an hour ago, but it seems to be stuck now.
[16:06] Aric Linden: that does cure it
[16:06] Soft Linden: So the daemons don't inherit the dunked CPU priority.
[16:06] Soft Linden: cool!
[16:06] Sidewinder Linden: /quick aside... after some disc's with 3d dev's... has found that turning tree detail slider all the way down can dramatically increase frame rate on slower machines with little visual change ;)
[16:06] Wyn Galbraith likes the trees.

[16:07] Soft Linden: Yeah. A lot of them are really fillrate bound. High detail trees have lots more large alpha passes. That means an extra read, thrashing the cache on some already detailed textures.
[16:07] Sidewinder Linden: hehe yes... but if someone wants a quick fix for faster rez, less hiccups turning and moving, and isn't so into every leaf - it's simpler than juggling the other 15 options ;)
[16:07] Wyn Galbraith: Trees or speed such a hard choice.
[16:07] Sidewinder Linden shrugs

[16:07] Soft Linden: I know at Lusk, some of the guys just turn off trees altogether!
[16:08] Sidewinder Linden: how do you do that?
[16:08] Daedalus Young: I'll go for speed and turn trees up for Snaps then
[16:08] Thom Mistral: render
[16:08] Wyn Galbraith: I just turned on shinny and bump three weeks ago.
[16:08] Dirk Talamasca: CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+3
[16:08] Aric Linden: soft, supposedly the daemon restarts
[16:08] Sidewinder Linden: whoa cool :)
[16:08] Sidewinder Linden: haha
[16:09] Wyn Galbraith see SL with a whole different view.

[16:09] yukiko Omegamu: whats the next issue too talk about :D
[16:09] Sidewinder Linden: sry yukiko
[16:09] Soft Linden: Aric - yeah, when it restarts it would restart with lower priority. I meant that as a test, not the final solution. The final solution would need a stub process that can do the daemon relaunch at higher priority, or a suid executable
[16:10] Soft Linden: Or a missing Aric!
[16:10] yukiko Omegamu: rofl
[16:10] Wyn Galbraith: Must have crashed.
[16:10] yukiko Omegamu: when we get too the issue i reported i got a bit of information for that
[16:10] Soft Linden: Or timed out. I think we're done. :)
[16:10] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks for having the meeting. Always an education.
[16:11] Thom Mistral: Thank you