Bug triage/2008-02-25/Transcript

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Agenda

Transcript of Bridie Linden's office hours:

[12:02] Lex Neva: I have to say... for someone who's not been to many triages and isn't much of a wikitroll, it's rather difficult for me to figure out how the whole monday agenda wiki page thing works.
[12:03] Lex Neva: plus, I looked through the history for transcripts, and I think some of the links are wrong for the four most recent triages...
[12:03] Lex Neva: but I'm not sure, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
[12:03] Bridie Linden: hmm, I'll have a look later...
[12:04] Lex Neva: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage#Notes_from_previous_triages
[12:04] Aric Linden: let's give it one more minute before starting
[12:04] Lex Neva: there, for reference
[12:04] Squirrel Wood: Everyone was busy doing http://fbb.chilloutzone.de/squirrel-moneyshot.jpg last week :p
[12:04] Lex Neva: ...
[12:04] Lex Neva: you're going to have to give me a really good reason to click that, if you expect me to :P
[12:04] Squirrel Wood: Pfft.
[12:05] Squirrel Wood: It's a natural thing?
[12:05] Lex Neva: I mean, given what I know of you from your store ;)
[12:05] Soft Linden laughs, "Oh good god"
[12:05] Saijanai Kuhn: at least someone is having fun...
[12:06] Aric Linden: let's start
[12:06] Aric Linden: misc-305 appears to be first up
[12:06] Aric Linden wonders if Bridie is here to take notes or fill in for Alexa?
[12:07] Bridie Linden: yup!
[12:07] Bridie Linden: do we have urler?
[12:07] Bridie Linden: or do we need one?
[12:07] Lex Neva: I really don't understand this one...
[12:07] Lex Neva: oh wait
[12:07] Lex Neva: wrong issue
[12:07] Lex Neva: I was thinking of another.
[12:08] Aric Linden: the urler doesn't seem to be urling today, Bridie
[12:08] Aric Linden: this appears to be a search issue, though it gets sidetracked
[12:09] Lex Neva rampages.
[12:09] Aric Linden: bryonie's posting seems a bit much
[12:09] Aric Linden: I think we should take this in though and see if there's a search results issue
[12:09] Soft Linden: Right.
[12:09] Bridie Linden: ok!
[12:09] Aric Linden: k
[12:10] Soft Linden: Might also make sure they know they have to leave and return to the parcel to see the updated traffic locally, if they're really just camping in place.
[12:10] Aric Linden: next is vwr-2394
[12:10] Bridie Linden: SLRR Trains Keep Disappearing
[12:10] Aric Linden: @soft, good point
[12:11] Saijanai Kuhn: Thats wierd. I just got a message from babbler claiming it was left behind at the TP point. I'm still wearing it
[12:11] Aric Linden: this seems more a feature request than a bug
[12:11] Soft Linden: Is the SLRR something we run/own?
[12:12] Aric Linden shrugs
[12:12] Aric Linden: I don't know
[12:12] Lex Neva: yes
[12:12] Soft Linden: From the comments, looks like it
[12:12] Squirrel Wood: didn't LL have a contest once for stations along the train track ?
[12:12] Lex Neva: it's way old linden content
[12:12] Soft Linden: Cool :)
[12:12] Lex Neva: On the mainland, somewhere. I've never seen it.
[12:12] Aric Linden laughs
[12:12] Saijanai Kuhn: should have historical LInden Land tours
[12:12] Saijanai Kuhn: and THIS is a telehub...
[12:12] Soft Linden: Well, this could go to the community team, I think.
[12:13] Aric Linden: agrees
[12:13] Bridie Linden: Ok
[12:13] Soft Linden: There's been talk about inviting residents to take over some content. This would be a good candidate.
[12:13] Lex Neva: oh right, yeah, that new project mentioned on the blog
[12:13] Aric Linden: let's go on to vwr-2123
[12:13] Squirrel Wood: that new project... didn't sign up as I'm a squirrel and not a mole :p
[12:13] Lex Neva: hah
[12:14] Squirrel Wood: /ao off
[12:14] Lex Neva: I've seen several dupes of this over the months...
[12:14] Lex Neva: never seen it myself.
[12:14] Soft Linden: This looks like a dupe of SVC-936, not just relates to
[12:14] Babbler3.17: Saijanai welcome to Babbler3. Have fun! For more information, visit http://www.maxcase.info/babbler3.
[12:14] Babbler3.17: Babbler Ready.
[12:14] Babbler3: Saijanai: Saijanai welcome to Babbler3. Have fun! For more information, visit http://www.maxcase.info/babbler3.
[12:14] Babbler3: Saijanai: Babbler Ready.
[12:14] Soft Linden: There's something where parcels take on info from another parcel - no repro on it, but the name goes in the same packet with the other info.
[12:14] Squirrel Wood: Ouch
[12:15] Bridie Linden agrees w/Soft
[12:15] Harleen Gretzky: But if you bring up the About Land window it is correct
[12:15] Squirrel Wood: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Monday_Agenda
[12:15] Kerry Giha: Thankyou :)
[12:16] Squirrel Wood: np
[12:16] Aric Linden: I think that the most we could offer up is to try and have QA get a consistent repro
[12:16] Bridie Linden: Close 2123 as a dupe?
[12:16] Soft Linden: Yeah
[12:16] Lex Neva: wait
[12:16] Lex Neva: 936 is the dupe...
[12:16] Lex Neva: VWR-2123 is older.
[12:16] Harleen Gretzky: import SVC-936 though?
[12:17] Bridie Linden: 936 is already imported
[12:17] Harleen Gretzky: k
[12:17] Bridie Linden: and assigned to Aric! :)
[12:17] Lex Neva: quick, everyone stare at aric!
[12:17] Aric Linden turns red
[12:17] Aric Linden: it's assigned to me since it was imported
[12:17] Aric Linden: I can't fix stuff
[12:18] Soft Linden: Never works when I try that excuse.
[12:18] Lex Neva: I do'nt see either as assigned, unless you mean the internal issue
[12:18] Aric Linden grins at soft. hold on, lemme look at the internal issue
[12:18] Soft Linden: Yup! Internal issue is the indicator.
[12:20] Aric Linden: I don't see svc-936 assigned to me
[12:20] Aric Linden: oh internall
[12:20] Soft Linden: Yeah.
[12:20] Aric Linden: ahhh
[12:20] Aric Linden: I know this issue
[12:20] Soft Linden: Torley was fishing it about a week or two ago, but no major AH HAs from anyone yet
[12:21] Aric Linden: This is something that enus spent 3 or so days on, including his own time
[12:21] Aric Linden: likewise, it's been triaged
[12:21] Aric Linden: but without repro steps no one can jump on it
[12:22] Soft Linden: All I can think of is cumulative offsets from animations without a proper first frame pushing people across the region or something.
[12:22] Soft Linden: It's odd.
[12:22] Aric Linden: so we're back to the same thing as earlier, except that the dupe is VWR-2123
[12:22] Aric Linden: and we still need steps to repro
[12:22] Bridie Linden nods
[12:22] Aric Linden: any objections to moving on?
[12:22] Squirrel Wood: nope
[12:22] Lex Neva: nay
[12:23] Soft Linden: Actually, one thought on this...
[12:23] Aric Linden listens
[12:23] Soft Linden: We've got a number of issues like this, where we're having a tough time with a repro, but a lot of people say they see them.
[12:23] Soft Linden: Are those gathered anywhere? I'm wondering if enough of them would be worth a main blog post.
[12:23] Lex Neva: ooh
[12:23] Lex Neva: and a meta issue, perhaps
[12:23] Soft Linden: Actually yeah - that's a good point too
[12:23] Lex Neva: I'm thinking there're hundreds of orphaned issues moldering in jira
[12:23] Lex Neva: if not thousands
[12:24] Squirrel Wood: nuts for brains - can you repro it?
[12:24] Soft Linden: Well, a lot are orphaned just for being low priority.
[12:24] Soft Linden: We don't want to gather everything, just the stuff that a lot of people see, but no programmer's been able to make happen on a dev machine.
[12:25] Soft Linden: Anyway, meta issue sounds like a good first step
[12:25] Lex Neva: sounds good
[12:25] Aric Linden nods
[12:25] Kerry Giha: It might just be a one time issue with the client's PC causing the problem and others may not see it
[12:25] Aric Linden: perfect task for folks with lots of time on their hands
[12:25] Kerry Giha: or it might be something conflicting outside of SL
[12:25] Lex Neva: well, SVC-936 mentioned everyone around seeing it
[12:26] Aric Linden: svc-936 was very common for a few days
[12:26] Lex Neva: interesting
[12:26] Harleen Gretzky: And there are now 4 dupes of it
[12:26] Aric Linden: we had a dev (xylor) and a qa both working it full time for a couple of days
[12:26] Aric Linden: but the cause was never uncovered
[12:26] Soft Linden: I'll make a meta issue and fish sldev for good candidates to link up.
[12:27] Aric Linden: we couldn't get consistent repro steps such that it was something that could be tracked down and fixed
[12:27] Lex Neva: I've got this suspicion that a meta issue for that might exist already... I'm doing a quick dig
[12:27] Aric Linden: after a few days, the problem disappeared from mainstream view
[12:27] Lex Neva: nope, guess not
[12:28] Aric Linden: and became something that appeared from time to time;
[12:28] Soft Linden: If I can mess up the agenda a minute - there's a similar bug I was going to bring up at the end today
[12:28] Lex Neva: I wonder if there was some big outage around that time, maybe trouble with the VPN.
[12:28] Soft Linden: VWR-3729
[12:28] Soft Linden: Notices still received when "Receive Group Notices" is unchecked
[12:29] Soft Linden: That's bouncing around internally as well, and we're having a hard time reproing. If anyone has more data that could help here, or even theories they want to comment on, that would be awesome
[12:29] Lex Neva: there's a "receive group notices" box?? :o
[12:29] Squirrel Wood: yes
[12:29] Soft Linden: Yar. Checked by default.
[12:29] Aric Linden applauds soft
[12:29] Lex Neva: There's... there's a "list in my profile" checkbox??
[12:29] Lex Neva: Jeez.
[12:29] Lex Neva: No idea how I missed those.
[12:29] Aric Linden: QA was bouncing this a little last week
[12:30] Soft Linden: Yeah. Seraph too, Aric!
[12:30] Soft Linden: Anyway - didn't mean to fully derail!
[12:30] Aric Linden: np.
[12:30] Aric Linden: this should go into the meta issue
[12:31] Soft Linden: Yeah - made a note for myself with these two to prime it
[12:31] Aric Linden: web-493 is next. it's a lovely can o'worms
[12:31] Squirrel Wood: 493 is technically a feature removal request... and not a bug.
[12:31] Lex Neva: can we kill it?
[12:31] Rob Linden: WEB-493 is a snark issue that's become a meta issue for presumably low quality bugs (I haven't looked at the issues that have been linked to this one)
[12:31] Rob Linden: I'm not sure what the most constructive resolution is for this one.
[12:31] Lex Neva: it hasn't become a meta issue... the pile was all linked by the issue author.
[12:31] Rob Linden: we could close it, but some wiseguy/gal will probably reopen it
[12:32] Aric Linden: let's assign it to workingonit linden (which is currently me)
[12:32] Lex Neva: That's fine. There are more of us than there are of them.
[12:32] Soft Linden: Well, thankfully JIRA pros can close issues :)
[12:32] Squirrel Wood: misfiled ?
[12:32] Lex Neva: I don't know whether this is serious or a parody...
[12:32] Soft Linden: I'm biting my tongue on who to assign it to. She'd blog at me.
[12:32] Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps instruct the creator on proper jira usage? ^^
[12:32] Lex Neva: I posted a long rant as a comment, but I edited it away.
[12:32] Aric Linden grins at soft
[12:32] Lex Neva: Half those related issues are perfectly legit issues.
[12:32] Squirrel Wood: Torley DID post a video on how to Jira ^^
[12:33] Aric Linden: I don't want to spend more time on this. it's either a philosophical question or performance art
[12:33] Aric Linden: either way, we can't do anything with it since it's not concrete
[12:33] Lex Neva: I vote close it as Misfiled or somesuch.
[12:33] Rob Linden: k....I'll mark it as resolved/misfiled, with a(hopefully) good humored response
[12:34] Aric Linden: thanks Rob
[12:34] Bridie Linden: thx Rob
[12:34] Aric Linden: svc-1648
[12:34] Squirrel Wood: H4 related.
[12:35] Squirrel Wood: Though push HAS been nerfed somewhat on H4
[12:35] Aric Linden: import, assign to sidewinder
[12:35] Aric Linden: I believe this will be fixed in an upcoming havok push
[12:35] Aric Linden: but we can let sidewinder sort
[12:35] Soft Linden: Yeah, definitely straight in.
[12:36] Soft Linden: Sounds cool though. Will have to go see that sword.
[12:36] Lex Neva: I do know that pushes on avs are different... there's some kind of friction that doesn't exist in H1
[12:36] Kerry Giha: Yea best to keep the samurai happy
[12:36] Aric Linden: svc-255 can just remain open, it's been talked through to death
[12:36] Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps they just need bigger swords? ^^
[12:36] Lex Neva: It's old :o
[12:37] Squirrel Wood: I mean, they could be fighting with kitchen knives there...
[12:37] Aric Linden: looks as though chiyo got pinged and tried to do something about it
[12:37] Lex Neva: Aric, are you just dismissing it? Because I've seen it, too.
[12:37] Lex Neva: I think this is the same thing that's been affecting people since the addition of that feature to return stuff to the sim when it's deleted if it can't be saved to inventory.
[12:37] Aric Linden: Lex, I'm not dismissing it
[12:38] Soft Linden: This is a tough issue, because that's really a symptom, not a direct bug. There are a few things that can cause this, the most common being the viewer (where render happens) getting out of sync with the sim (where physics happens)
[12:38] Aric Linden: but there's still not repro steps for us to do anything with it
[12:38] Soft Linden: But it's also possible the physics model is corrupted on the sim, which would look exactly the same.
[12:38] Aric Linden: Lex, the thread clearly indicates the steps we've agreed upon as practical next steps
[12:38] Lex Neva: The best repro I can think of would be to try deleting and/or taking stuff when the grid's less than stable... not a solid repro, though.
[12:38] Lex Neva: Okay :)
[12:38] Aric Linden: thanks
[12:38] Squirrel Wood: from what I gather several people have that problem at the same spot in the sim so I doubt its viewer desync
[12:39] Soft Linden: Yeah. You can also cause it very intermittently on a way slow connection
[12:39] Aric Linden: I believe vwr-4727 can be resolved
[12:39] Aric Linden: Dizzy seems happy
[12:39] Aric Linden: I could ping him
[12:39] Soft Linden: If that's the case, good data Squirrel. Especially if it survives restarts.
[12:39] Squirrel Wood: short freezes.. get them with the latest windlight viewer in crowded places
[12:39] Soft Linden: Because that means a dev can nab the sim state.
[12:39] Lex Neva: My experience agrees with squirrel
[12:39] Lex Neva: restarting the sim wipes these invisible things
[12:40] Squirrel Wood: 7+ avatars plus lots of prims nearby = huge performance decrease resulting in said freezes
[12:40] Squirrel Wood: typically when moving the camera or turning around
[12:41] Squirrel Wood: and I was commenting on 4727 :p
[12:41] Aric Linden grins
[12:41] Bridie Linden: another one we talked about /VWR-4851
[12:41] Aric Linden: I'd still move to close it
[12:41] Soft Linden: Why close 4727? I missed something
[12:41] Bridie Linden: me too...
[12:41] Soft Linden: That video makes it look unrelated to the other periodic lockup
[12:42] Aric Linden: because Dizzy Banjo indicates improvement
[12:42] Aric Linden: read to the bottom of the thread
[12:42] Soft Linden: Gotcha!
[12:42] Bridie Linden: Taryn says in 4851 "Still seeing this, mostly on the regular viewer now. "
[12:43] Bridie Linden: and also mentions camera angle, Squirrel
[12:43] Soft Linden: Maybe can't repro, pending Dizzy's reply to Torley, or someone else piling on.
[12:43] Lex Neva: I see that, too... I've seen lockups when turning the camera for a long time.
[12:43] Aric Linden: I think taryn's problem is different
[12:43] Aric Linden: I think taryn's prob is update lag
[12:43] Lex Neva: oh
[12:43] Lex Neva: avatar can rotate
[12:43] Soft Linden: Yeah, Lex. There's definitely something thrashing the hell out of the video card bus. The faster the bus, the shorter those lockups.
[12:44] Lex Neva: this sounds like their internet connection is dropping, since the audio stream locks up too.
[12:44] Soft Linden: But the video shows frequent short pauses at regular intervals
[12:44] Aric Linden: Lex: jinx
[12:44] Squirrel Wood: pci-e here? 512mb... 256bit interface...
[12:44] Squirrel Wood: slow?
[12:44] Lex Neva learns to read while typing
[12:44] Squirrel Wood: hell no! 30+GB/s
[12:44] Aric Linden learns to type while reading
[12:44] Lex Neva: Yeah, I'm on pci-e too.
[12:45] Aric Linden: I think they're different issues and that we can close Dizzy's issue
[12:45] Soft Linden: Right. The other type of lockup, not this issue, are the longer pauses. On my different machines they last about 5 seconds on my fastest machine, and 45 seconds on my worst.
[12:45] Squirrel Wood: and my connection's 25mbit down...
[12:45] Lex Neva: whew
[12:45] Bridie Linden: Ok, I'll resolve 4727
[12:45] Aric Linden: thanks
[12:45] Soft Linden: Anyway yeah - sounds like closed unless dizzy or someone else has data.
[12:45] Soft Linden: Can't repro?
[12:45] Aric Linden: onto patches
[12:46] Aric Linden: viewr-4506 appears to be already taken in
[12:46] Soft Linden: Yeah. Sardonyx and friends are all over anything cmake-related
[12:46] Aric Linden: same thing with vew-4022
[12:47] Lex Neva: haravikk has a good point, though
[12:47] Lex Neva: in one of the comments
[12:47] Lex Neva: rob resolved it but didn't watch it
[12:47] Squirrel Wood: 4022 - try uploading a gif renamed to jpg ? may trigger the error?
[12:48] Lex Neva: haravik provided the requested information (an image) an hour later...
[12:48] Rob Linden looks
[12:48] Bridie Linden wonders why these last 2 weren't 'officially' imported...
[12:49] Aric Linden is wondering if the image provided was corrupted or mislabeled
[12:49] Lex Neva: mislabelled
[12:49] Soft Linden: This should definitely go in. I can have a look at this, been going over some of M2's other patches
[12:49] Lex Neva: which is essentially the same thing as far as libjpeg cares
[12:49] Rob Linden: ok....I guess there's a misunderstanding about JIRA etiquette
[12:49] Soft Linden: I've seen the cmyk crash myself.
[12:49] Aric Linden nods at Lex
[12:49] Lex Neva: feed it a gif (or another bad file), and it crashes, seems to be what they're saying
[12:50] Aric Linden: well, I think we should simply import them and let sardonyx and Soft do their magic
[12:50] Soft Linden: Right. Just convert from RGB to CMYK in Photoshop and it crashes too.
[12:50] Lex Neva: sounds good
[12:50] Rob Linden: y'all need to be bold about reopening issues after providing info on a "need more info" request
[12:50] Lex Neva: I do :)
[12:50] Lex Neva: I think not many people are aware that resolve means "fix it and reopen"
[12:50] Lex Neva: People like... Prokofy? :P
[12:51] Lex Neva: But I think the point was that you expressed interest and asked for more information, but didn't set yourself as a watcher... *shrug*
[12:51] Harleen Gretzky: He knows, just conviently forgets
[12:51] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[12:51] Lex Neva: indeed
[12:51] Lex Neva: Speaking of whom, can we ban prokofy? :P
[12:51] Rob Linden: Lex: I'm trying to deal with a lot of issues....I'm not necessarily going to watch every issue I identify as need more info
[12:51] Lex Neva: okay... fair enough
[12:52] Lex Neva: I just wanted to bring haravikk's comment up
[12:52] Rob Linden: I think the process worked, other than possible ruffled feathers
[12:53] Aric Linden: let's go on, shall we
[12:53] Aric Linden: I think vwr-4480 should be imported and run by RX
[12:53] Soft Linden: Sounds right
[12:53] Bridie Linden: yup
[12:54] Aric Linden: on to the misc pool
[12:54] Lex Neva rolls up sleeves
[12:54] Aric Linden: vwr-4790
[12:54] Lex Neva: ugh
[12:54] Lex Neva: my eyes just glazed over while attempting to read this
[12:54] Squirrel Wood: hmm.. never had to double-relog
[12:54] Harleen Gretzky: me neither
[12:55] Lex Neva: I believe this is the case where you crash, log in, get "the region is logging you out now", then have to relog again
[12:55] Squirrel Wood: though when you cancel a tp that you know will time out and disconnect you... you are frozen and must relog
[12:55] Bridie Linden: dupe of svc-972?
[12:55] Lex Neva: in other words, standard fair for a crash
[12:55] Lex Neva: fare
[12:55] Aric Linden is still counting the number of times the word "log" appears
[12:55] Soft Linden: No, there's something else where if you try to log in again too quickly, the world doesn't load. I've had this a handful of times.
[12:55] Lex Neva: oh, interesting
[12:55] Lex Neva: I've never seen that.
[12:56] Squirrel Wood: when I log in too quick again I get the message that the sim is still logging me out
[12:56] Aric Linden: rigth
[12:56] Soft Linden: Right.
[12:56] Aric Linden: erm right
[12:56] Aric Linden: erm right log
[12:56] Squirrel Wood: then I wait about ten seconds and retry. and it works.
[12:56] Soft Linden: But if you're logging into a specific region or your home (and you were last home) you don't get that message.
[12:56] Bridie Linden: never seen that
[12:56] Squirrel Wood: Soft, I usually get that message when I relog after a crash or failed tp
[12:57] Aric Linden: yup
[12:57] Saijanai Kuhn: what is interesing is that my python bot NEVER gets a cant log in sever logging you out message...
[12:57] Soft Linden: Right. Try punching in the region name where you last were as your starting location and you won't get that message.
[12:57] Soft Linden: You only get that message when the viewer and sim think you should be in different places, I believe.
[12:57] Saijanai Kuhn: thats probalby why. I never change locations
[12:57] Aric Linden: this appears to be a reprise of the failed TP issue as much as anything
[12:57] Squirrel Wood: I have "log in to last sim" active
[12:57] Soft Linden: Er viewer and backbone
[12:57] Saijanai Kuhn: (who could i?)\
[12:57] Squirrel Wood: so I usually relog to where I last was
[12:58] Aric Linden: This issue provides no useful information for our devs though
[12:58] Squirrel Wood: I recently experienced the asstachment bug again on a tp
[12:58] Soft Linden: I'll add notes to this JIRA, but it's low votes right now, probably not priority for an import
[12:58] Aric Linden: there's not enough info there to import, imo
[12:58] Lex Neva: Didn't nicholaz finally track down asstachments and fix it?
[12:59] Aric Linden: /nods at Lex
[12:59] Harleen Gretzky: yes
[12:59] Lex Neva: oh hey, can a linden nuke the inappropriate attachment on VWR-5124? Harleen pointed that out to me, but good-citizens can't do it
[12:59] Squirrel Wood: It is a rare thing to happen nowadays. but like I said.. I had it happen to me recently
[13:00] Aric Linden: hmm. i think it does still show up from time to time. vektor mentioned it one day a couple weeks back
[13:00] Lex Neva: I get it very rarely
[13:00] Soft Linden: Lex - nuked it.
[13:00] Lex Neva: yay
[13:01] Aric Linden: I think there was a little bit of concern about part of Nicholaz' fix
[13:01] Squirrel Wood: 22 pending downloads...
[13:01] Aric Linden: Folks, times up
[13:01] Lex Neva: darn :(
[13:01] Aric Linden: I appreciate everyone coming
[13:01] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[13:01] Lex Neva: I was hoping to get to my issues... do I have to resubmit them on the next agenda?
[13:02] Aric Linden: how about if we start with them on Monday
[13:02] Lex Neva: yay