User:CG Linden/2008-12-30

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Transcript of CG Linden's office hours:

[7:55] ZHAO-Outrider Male Poses (right click and select wear): 2282 bytes free
[7:55] Jenika's Glasses - Oval Frame w/Clip-Ons: Say '/1 menu' or touch the glasses to open the control panel.
[7:55] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[7:55] Radar HUD v1.1: Type /3help for a summary of the commands.
[7:56] Ellla McMahon: .. Hello CG :)) Hope you had a great Holidays !
[7:56] Ellla McMahon: .. Gellan, hello :))
[7:56] Gellan Glenelg: ... hi
[7:56] CG Linden: . Hi Elllla
[7:56] CG Linden: . Hi Gellan
[7:57] Close Range: .... Chaley May [26m]
[7:59] Slide Presentation Screen v6.0: Recounting the slides.
[7:59] Slide Presentation Screen v6.0: I count 13 slides in my inventory (so far).
[7:59] Slide Presentation Screen v6.0: Recounting the slides.
[7:59] Slide Presentation Screen v6.0: I count 14 slides in my inventory (so far).
[7:59] Gellan Glenelg: ... ziggy, your mic is open
[8:00] Ziggy Sideshow: ..... thanks
[8:00] CG Linden: . Hello folks
[8:01] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... hey CG
[8:01] Chaley May: ....... hi
[8:01] Ziggy Sideshow: ..... Good morning
[8:01] Lamorna Proctor: ........ Hi CG
[8:01] CG Linden: . Oi, back from the Frontier, Aargle?
[8:02] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yup... just came in from the back 40
[8:02] Lamorna Proctor: ........ He's in Texas, even if I'm not
[8:02] CG Linden: . Hi FaiRodis
[8:02] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... Hello! :)
[8:03] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yah, mah fillie and me has been hangin' 'round the saloon today
[8:03] Lamorna Proctor: ........ I will apologize in advance, CG, but I can only stay about 10 minutes
[8:03] CG Linden: . So...
[8:03] CG Linden: . As you noticed, we're finishing up the rolling restarts to deploy 24.10
[8:04] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yay!
[8:04] CG Linden: . on the board here is yesterday's concurrency chart... let;s disregard the afternoon problems
[8:05] CG Linden: . those will hopefully go away once we get our dedicated fiber ring...
[8:05] CG Linden: . but an interesting thing canbe observed as we started the rolling restart yesterday morning
[8:05] CG Linden: . you can see that the rolling restarts started at 6am SLT
[8:06] CG Linden: . and as we restarted sims, concurrency dips somewhat
[8:06] CG Linden: . we believe those are campers getting scraped off like barnacles
[8:06] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... oh, did you reach your year-end concurrency goal?
[8:07] CG Linden: . maybe some of those are bots too...
[8:07] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... campers=barnacles? ROTFL
[8:07] Ozzy Wozniak: .......... Greetings :-)
[8:07] CG Linden: . Hello
[8:07] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I'm loving that analogy
[8:07] Lamorna Proctor: ........ It's only me from over the sea, said Barnacle Bill the sailor :)
[8:07] CG Linden: . the other thing we observe is that teleport failures go up when we do a rolling restart
[8:08] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I've noticed you mentioning teleports as a metric for performance... is there a reason for that?
[8:08] Black Chess Clock Display: Sorry, you have run out of time
[8:08] Sculpted Chess Set V3.1.1: Game over. Complete game was as follows:
[8:08] Sculpted Chess Set V3.1.1: White: A N Other - Black: A N Other
[8:08] Sculpted Chess Set V3.1.1: Linden Village - Aric Linden, Longfellow, 2008-12-30
[8:08] Sculpted Chess Set V3.1.1: 1. Ng1-h3 1-0
[8:08] CG Linden: . again, we believe these are displaced bots trying to TP back to the rgion they got logged off
[8:09] CG Linden: . and failing, becasue the region isn't back yet
[8:09] Aargle Zymurgy checks to see if Radar still has air
[8:09] CG Linden: . yeah, teleports are a good sign of health
[8:09] Sculpted Chess Set V3.1.1 whispers: Setting up a new game
[8:09] Sculpted Chess Set V3.1.1 whispers: Ready to play
[8:09] Lamorna Proctor is a little surprised that the normal situation is for 10% to fail
[8:10] CG Linden: . a lot of stuf happens when you teleport...
[8:10] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I'm sure Mr. Scott is quite busy.
[8:10] CG Linden: . I believe it's one of those average tings where TPs are really bad for some, but work well for most
[8:11] CG Linden: . whenever someone is on a high latency internet connection, TPs are not going to be fun
[8:11] CG Linden: . especially if they carry lots of attachments
[8:11] Aargle Zymurgy laughs
[8:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... so, you can weigh yourself down?
[8:12] Lamorna Proctor: ........ ok, I have to go
[8:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... bye Lam
[8:12] Lamorna Proctor: ........ bye CG, sorry about this
[8:12] CG Linden: . yep, literally :) when you teleport, or do a region crossing - all of those attachments needs to be serialized and written out, to be re-read by the new simulator process
[8:12] CG Linden: . ok, nice seeing you :)
[8:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... is it possible to bounce off a sim boundary?
[8:13] CG Linden: . they talk about one-handed bandits, now there was a zero-handed bandit
[8:13] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... heh
[8:14] CG Linden: . that's kind of what happens when your 8000 prim sailboart falls apart at a region crossing :)
[8:14] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... ah, yes. ok.
[8:14] CG Linden: . so, some people asked last week about out plans for 2009
[8:15] Chaley May: ....... if attached prims have no physics and most have no scripts why do they have to be on the simulator at all.. cant we have a dedicated server to look after us avatars looks
[8:15] CG Linden: . M did put up a blog post yesterday
[8:16] CG Linden: . well, it still interacts with the environment
[8:16] CG Linden: . the things that matter do have scripts
[8:16] CG Linden: . swords, guns...
[8:16] CG Linden: . flight assists
[8:16] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Xcite parts. :-D
[8:16] CG Linden: . hehe
[8:17] CG Linden: . even hair is scripted nowadays
[8:17] Chaley May: ....... maybe you can get aay with some scripts not being on the simulator
[8:17] Chaley May: ....... *away
[8:17] CG Linden: . but they still need to interact with the environment
[8:18] CG Linden: . so the simulator needs to know about them
[8:18] Chaley May: ....... im not sure how important it is for a sim to know your changing your hair color :P
[8:18] CG Linden: . because it needs to tell the other people in it...
[8:19] CG Linden: . remember, the simulator is the proxy to everything in our system
[8:19] Chaley May: ....... oh but wht i mean is your avatar is stored on special avatar servers
[8:19] Chaley May: ....... so everyone gets your avatar from the avatar servers
[8:19] Aargle Zymurgy reads the blog: "* Improving the first-hour experience (on the web, in the viewer and
inworld) for all Residents and especially for new users so that we
can continue to expand our active user base"
[8:19] CG Linden: . but the simulator needs to know where you are and what you see
[8:19] CG Linden: . and that data changes dynamically
[8:19] CG Linden: . as you move
[8:20] CG Linden: . and other people move...
[8:20] Chaley May: ....... yes thats all that needs to happen on the sim i think the rest can be handled off the sim
[8:20] CG Linden: . not sure that this will really help, it will just make a big mess with communications and failures....
[8:20] Chaley May: ....... ok
[8:21] CG Linden: . the one thing we are planning to do in 2009 to hopefully mitigate some of this is offload the texture pipeline
[8:21] CG Linden: . we've been talking about that for a while....
[8:21] CG Linden: . currently, the simulator is your proxy into the complete system
[8:21] Chaley May: ....... or it could mean your avatar never actually switches from one server to the next so will never get completely disconnected during crossing but find itself in empty space ready to tp to another sim
[8:22] CG Linden: . one of the difficulties in software engineering is that in theory, you "can" do anything you want
[8:23] CG Linden: . I'm not saying that your system can't work, Chaley
[8:23] Chaley May: ....... ok :)
[8:23] Chaley May: ....... i am probably off topic anyway :P
[8:23] CG Linden: . but I don't think that the effort to rearchitect it to work your way will be worth it.
[8:24] CG Linden: . instead, we're trying to find those things the simulator is doing right now which can "easily" be offloaded
[8:24] CG Linden: . and one of those things is the texture download pipeline
[8:25] CG Linden: . there really is no reason why the simulator needs to spend time proxying texture requests
[8:25] Chaley May: ....... i was thinking that it would make travelling more efficient and you could travel between continents through empty space but maybe i have crazy ideas :)
[8:26] CG Linden: . Think about it... every time you need to collect data from remote servers, all sorts of things can go wrong
[8:26] CG Linden: . it really is a lot easier if your data is right there where you need it
[8:27] CG Linden: . the trick is to balance that with the cost of processing
[8:27] Chaley May: ....... i guess so :)
[8:28] CG Linden: . in some ways, we do have dedicated avatar servers, they are currently called the inventory db hosts
[8:28] CG Linden: . but the plan calls for making them do a lot more than inventory
[8:29] CG Linden: . so Aargle, I see you were reading http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/12/29/a-look-back-a-look-ahead/
[8:29] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yes
[8:30] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... it's a bit vague in ways those things usually are. :-)
[8:30] CG Linden: . yeah, it is an unfortunate side effect of a growing company
[8:31] CG Linden: . but what he means is that we're essentially going to split our effort somewhat into feature work and sustaining work
[8:31] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yeah... it's like, "we're big enough that we have to say something, but we're big enough that we can't commit to details, so we can't say anything substantial." :-)
[8:31] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... that's not a complaint. I just know how the pronouncements must go. :-)
[8:31] CG Linden: . The problem is that anything with sibstance is also a commitment
[8:32] CG Linden: . and even M can't just randomly commit lots of people to specific things...
[8:32] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... exactly. :-)
[8:32] CG Linden: . the unforseen will always make thing interesting
[8:32] CG Linden: . and we all know that sotware engineering is hard to predict
[8:32] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... oh, heck, I do the same thing with MY products. always have to hedge a bit.
[8:33] CG Linden: . but essentially we had two choices
[8:33] CG Linden: . we go all out into sustaining
[8:33] CG Linden: . or we go half and half
[8:34] CG Linden: . and we kind of went half and half
[8:34] CG Linden: . thatvis we're going to focus on some very specific stability projects
[8:34] CG Linden: . like, for example, the dedicated fiber ring, the texture pipeline and some other stuff
[8:34] Aargle Zymurgy nods
[8:34] CG Linden: . but we will continue to tweak the feature set with the hope to attract usrs currently put off by SL
[8:35] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I'm up on 2 years this coming month. I'm going to say that development has been more rational during my 2nd year than in the 1st.
[8:35] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... CG Linden, from several days ago I got such problem with SL that sudenly my comp rebooting. It's happens only when I in SL because I try quacke 3 and other games but all was ok. Today I formated my hard drives reinstall windows and installe new version of SL client and drivers for all other hardware but same effect. What can you tell about that. Do you know about other people had same problems?
[8:35] CG Linden: . the new home page kind of shows where that is going
[8:36] CG Linden: . I don't know, FaiRodis
[8:36] CG Linden: . you may want to try the 1.22 RC viewer which has lots of crash fixes
[8:37] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... you mean the newest updated SL client version?
[8:37] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Quack 3? isn't that a FPUS game? (first-person-unlicensed-surgeon)
[8:37] CG Linden: . that is a magnificent dress, btw
[8:37] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... thanks :)
[8:38] CG Linden: . btw, Aargle, Lam will be happy to know that the prim movement bug is now actually assigned to our viewer rendering pipeline pro dev :)
[8:38] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yay!
[8:38] CG Linden: . not sure if the fix will make it into 1.23, but there is a shot it might
[8:39] CG Linden: . he kind of looked at it and said "Yeah, I know where that is..."
[8:39] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... :-)
[8:39] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... oh, a forgotten question: was the concurrency goal for the end of year reached?
[8:40] CG Linden: . so, the roll is pretty much completed now....
[8:40] CG Linden: . in the final cleanup phase
[8:40] CG Linden: . not sure we had a concurrency goal
[8:40] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... oh where I can get 1.22 version ? I
[8:40] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I thought it was 70K or something. I know 70K was passed this month
[8:40] Gellan Glenelg: ... http://www.secondlife.com/downloads , under "test viewers
[8:41] CG Linden: . beat me to it :)
[8:41] CG Linden: . there is a pool I believe
[8:41] CG Linden: . but no "goal" as far as I know.
[8:42] CG Linden: . so, anything else you'd like me to talk about?
[8:42] Gellan Glenelg: ... what happened yesterday? do you know?
[8:42] CG Linden: . bad things :) and I know :)
[8:42] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yes. how do you get red-wine stains out of a white shirt?
[8:43] Gellan Glenelg: ... was it network-related, or hardware? not asking for too much detail
[8:43] CG Linden: . network related
[8:43] Gellan Glenelg: ... kk
[8:43] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... Also I have a question have in your plans to make more usefull inventory? more organized? 2) Will you make ability to save named selection groups like in 3DMAx?
[8:43] CG Linden: . not under our control - which is why I'm having great hopes once we get dedicated fibre
[8:44] CG Linden: . there are some ideas being punted around about inventory and outfits
[8:44] CG Linden: . not sure what you mean with named selection groups
[8:44] CG Linden: . but outfits are something we want to improve
[8:44] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... as a n example
[8:44] Chaley May: ....... would love to see better object inventorys
[8:44] Gellan Glenelg: ... FaiRodis, there's a meta-issue on pjira, linking several inventory improment suggestions: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-381
[8:45] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... you link first one two cubes and give them name A
[8:45] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... then you link two spheres and give them namr B
[8:45] CG Linden: . we're thinking of allowing some sort of reference to objects, so a no-copy object can appear in multiple places
[8:45] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... then you link both two groups and give them name C
[8:45] CG Linden: . hierarchical linking?
[8:46] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... but when you unlink group C you get group A an B again but not severel part of cubes and spheres along
[8:46] CG Linden: . unlikely
[8:46] CG Linden: . I can probably say with 95% certainty not next year :)
[8:47] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... WHY? most jewelers and builders really need it :)
[8:47] Gellan Glenelg: ... what's the jira number? how many votes did it get?
[8:48] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... ok I understand I will collect it :)
[8:48] CG Linden: . because we only have so many people, and something like that requires deep re-architecting....
[8:48] Arawn Spitteler's heard a rumor, that the lack of Heirarchical Linking was admitted a mistake
[8:48] CG Linden: . I think you may get mesh import before you get something like that.
[8:49] Aargle Zymurgy perks up "mesh import"?
[8:49] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... oh great!
[8:49] CG Linden: . we're certainly not going to attempt to compete with the professional 3D design tools
[8:49] CG Linden: . well, not saying we're going to do mesh import
[8:49] CG Linden: . but at least it;s being considered
[8:50] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... we will got ability to import *.obj format?
[8:50] CG Linden: . I don't know
[8:50] Aargle Zymurgy begins to salivate
[8:50] CG Linden: . as I said, we're thinking about doing something, but that's not decided by any means
[8:50] CG Linden: . we know that it is high on the wishlist for several groups of people
[8:51] Chaley May: ....... 3D design tools are annoying would like to see sculptie tools in SL
[8:51] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... yes for content creators it's very important
[8:51] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I only have 1 thing in my wish-list currently and that'
[8:51] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... that's direct C# programming
[8:51] Arawn Spitteler: ........... I think a Follow Object Function might offer some Pseudo-Heierarchy, but wouldn't work for sitting and attachments.
[8:51] CG Linden: . the main thing I'm saying is that IF we commit resources to solving builder problems, THEN doing mesh import is more useful than doing hierarcical linking
[8:52] Arawn Spitteler: ........... What would it take, for amateurs to play with the challenge?
[8:52] CG Linden: . that may actually come to be, Aargle
[8:52] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... woot!
[8:52] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... within the year?
[8:52] CG Linden: . I don't know
[8:52] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... k
[8:53] CG Linden: . it's not a primary point of focus
[8:53] CG Linden: . but mono was designed with this in mind
[8:53] Chaley May: ....... so scripters would need to learn C#?
[8:53] Gellan Glenelg: ... See http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1495 and http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1494 .. currently 77 votes for "improve existing tools" and 291 for mesh import
[8:53] CG Linden: . lsl is not going away
[8:54] CG Linden: . ever.
[8:54] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Chaley, probably don't have to.. but those of use who use C# would have a massive edge
[8:54] Chaley May: ....... but LSL will be obsolete...
[8:54] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... and the problem with that is....?
[8:54] CG Linden: . not so sure... LSL has its uses
[8:54] Chaley May: ....... people create in SL because they can its easy for them
[8:55] Chaley May: ....... but its rapidly becoming more complicated
[8:55] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... as for me lsl is full enouph for me :) but some building tools needed
[8:55] Chaley May: ....... what is the percentage of people in SL that cant sculpt?
[8:55] Chaley May: ....... there will be most people unable to learn all these new things
[8:56] Arawn Spitteler: ........... What is the percentage of Peoiple, in SL?
[8:56] CG Linden: . Arawn :)
[8:56] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... no offense to the Lindens, but using LSL is a bit like using a steam engine: it constantlly requires awkward and anachronistic techniques to program in it.
[8:56] Arawn Spitteler: ........... LSL might be the scripting language with Training Wheels.
[8:56] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... C# is a bit more like hopping in a modern Mercedes
[8:56] Chaley May: ....... LSL is ideal for SL
[8:57] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... most people that I know can and do sculpts themselfs in external programs
[8:57] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... the most jewelers need it :)
[8:57] Chaley May: ....... Most people i know cant
[8:57] Gellan Glenelg: ... "some people won't be able to learn it" isn't a reason not to have something... I know people who, after a year in SL, STILL can't fly... should the ability to fly be removed?
[8:58] Arawn Spitteler: ........... I think someone removed Scripted Prim Torture for that reason.
[8:58] Chaley May: ....... All i am saying is the kind of people who learns C# are the kind of people who may be tempted to create their own 3D environments regardless of being in SL.. but the average person in SL gets left behind
[8:59] CG Linden: . The problem is that only very few professional designer is going to want to produce content in SL without proper industry accpeted tools
[8:59] Chaley May: ....... The reasons for SLs being here now is because it was an easy way to create your own piece of a virtual world
[8:59] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... let's put this in perspective. I just cringe when I have to do: myData = llListReplaceList( myData, [newvalue], offset, offset ); instead of myData[offset] = newvalue;
[8:59] Gellan Glenelg: ... if you cater for the lowest common demoniator, you'll end up with not-much-more than IRC
[8:59] CG Linden: . so yeah, amateurs will have to struggle then, but otoh, lots of great new content can make it in
[8:59] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... May be Lindens can split easy building tools for beginers and more professional tools for thouse who need to build more difficult things?
[8:59] CG Linden: . let's untangle the threads a little :)
[8:59] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... LOL@CG
[9:00] CG Linden: . so bith tings do have someting in common
[9:00] Gellan Glenelg: ... hey - I'm a scripter (in LSL) - I'm *used* to dealing with spaghetti ;P
[9:00] CG Linden: . they are in the grey zone
[9:00] CG Linden: . we really haven't decided on how and when to do any of them
[9:00] CG Linden: . we know we want to do them eventually
[9:01] Chaley May: ....... i think most of the creators in SL would become amateurs if you was to make things more complicated for them
[9:01] Chaley May: ....... and they may start to close their shops
[9:01] Chaley May: ....... because their stuff is not new enough
[9:01] CG Linden: . or they may learn useful marketable skills
[9:02] CG Linden: . nobody these days can put anything they build in SL in their portefolio and expect to get a job at Pixar, for example
[9:02] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Chaley, broadly speaking, any content creation worth buying takes effort. the bottom line is, you'll never really make it possible for absolutely EVERYONE to create ANYTHING
[9:02] Chaley May: ....... I still think it would be sensible to consider the effects of making content creation more complicated
[9:02] CG Linden: . oh, we do think about it...
[9:02] Chaley May: ....... most content creators own land for shop and rarely make profits
[9:03] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Chaley, that's normal for life.
[9:03] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... 90% of RL startup businesses fail.
[9:03] CG Linden: . but we also think about the content creators who won't touch SL
[9:03] Arawn Spitteler: ........... You can get rich, in a Gold Rush, if you can cook, or stitch trousers.
[9:03] CG Linden: . architects won't go near it
[9:03] CG Linden: . which is really a pity
[9:04] Chaley May: ....... content creators who wont touch SL are probably not going to make you as much money as you hope for
[9:04] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... they need megaprims. :-)
[9:04] CG Linden: . that's not your call to make Chaley :)
[9:04] Arawn Spitteler: ........... Architects? Any buildin would be a marvel, if it were integrated with SL
[9:05] Chaley May: ....... i know
[9:05] CG Linden: . Remember, currenty SL really only touches a very small minority of potential users...
[9:06] Chaley May: ....... because it dont look good enough?
[9:06] Chaley May: ....... and the fault being content?
[9:06] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... and, sadly, we lose a lot of potential new users due to initial confusion... and that has nothing to do with content or user-interface.
[9:07] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... that's outside CG's meeting material, but I've been learning a lot about it lately
[9:07] Arawn Spitteler: ........... SL is a hotel, of Global Electronic Doll-Houses, and should ave a roader appeal.
[9:08] CG Linden: . it is a little bit off track, but what I'm trying to convey is that these decisions are not simple
[9:08] CG Linden: . Remember, it started out as a feature request fior builders to have better tools
[9:09] CG Linden: . and my response was that we're not going to compete with autocad or similar tools
[9:09] CG Linden: . and as an alternative, we'd more likely consider importing
[9:09] Chaley May: ....... we do need better tools meaning a simple tool to make sculpties
[9:10] Chaley May: ....... and meshes
[9:10] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... in-world?
[9:10] Chaley May: ....... yes
[9:10] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I just want something that lets me make sculpties iwth animation master
[9:10] Arawn Spitteler: ........... If a thing can be imported from Autocad, it should be creatable in world, if not easily.
[9:11] Arawn Spitteler: ........... Autocad should make in-world building tools.
[9:11] CG Linden: . hehe
[9:11] Chaley May: ....... if we could build in world it would be amazingly fast compared to these 3D programs which have way too much junk we dont need
[9:11] CG Linden: . well, who knows, maybe if we grow 20x, 30x, they will :)
[9:12] CG Linden: . one person's junk is the next person's favorite feature
[9:12] CG Linden: . have you ever watched a pro use autocad?
[9:12] Chaley May: ....... most of the features on them programs have no use for SL at all...
[9:12] Chaley May: ....... no
[9:12] CG Linden: . it will blow you away
[9:13] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... photoshop pros are fun to watch, too.
[9:13] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... SORRY I GOT A CRASH
[9:13] CG Linden: . sorry 'bout that
[9:13] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... anything else fun for us as the year ends, CG?
[9:13] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... otherwise, I'm gonna go chase a bug.
[9:14] CG Linden: . ok, it;s past my time too
[9:14] CG Linden: . and besides barnacles, nope :)
[9:14] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... heheheheh
[9:14] CG Linden: . it really is interesting to see the stats though :)
[9:14] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... SO Lindens are against bots?
[9:14] Chaley May: ....... it seems strange to me we talk about how important content creation is for improving SL but then we leave the content creation out of world
[9:15] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... well, Chaley, think about it: do you7 want your SL client to also be auto-cad, audacity and photoshop, too?
[9:15] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... oh, and Poser all in one.
[9:15] CG Linden: . add poser :)
[9:15] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... jinx
[9:15] Chaley May: ....... i think beinging it inworld will bring content creation to the masses
[9:15] Chaley May: ....... *bringing
[9:16] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... personaly, Chaley, I don't like that.
[9:16] Chaley May: ....... and you will have much more people learning to make things
[9:16] CG Linden: . I don't think one will exclude the other
[9:16] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... I don't like poser, but love photoshop. one of my parnters likes Poser and otherwise prefers Gimp
[9:16] Chaley May: ....... a client doesnt even have to be close to autocad
[9:16] Arawn Spitteler: ........... The World is not in-world, but has to appear on a diversity of machines.
[9:16] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... what Lindens think about creating external 3d building program with it's own file store format that be able to export to SL for proffs and sell it?
[9:17] CG Linden: . the skills and limitations of inworld building in SL will prepare you better to use the professional tools
[9:17] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Chaley,the point being, the client can't possibly be all development tools. especially with maybe 10% of us here doing such with it.
[9:17] Chaley May: ....... well i can make sculpties in world allready your not even very far from it
[9:17] CG Linden: . Hiw can you make sculpties inworld?
[9:18] CG Linden: . How
[9:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... oh, I can do it too, CG. there are tools for it.
[9:18] Chaley May: ....... there is free inworld tools that u can use with snapshots
[9:18] CG Linden: . oh wow, people wrote prim based tools?
[9:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... yes.
[9:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... Chaley, what free ones?
[9:18] Chaley May: ....... imagine how much more efficient it would be in the client
[9:18] Chaley May: ....... errm let me see what i got
[9:19] Chaley May: ....... open loft
[9:19] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... ok, I'll look for it.
[9:19] Chaley May: ....... thats the free open source one
[9:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... ok, bug fix time.
[9:20] CG Linden: . ciao folks...
[9:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... thanks again, CG
[9:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ...... bye all
[9:20] CG Linden: . Tis was certainly an interesting discussion
[9:20] Chaley May: ....... i can give u it
[9:20] Ziggy Sideshow: ..... have a happy new years CG
[9:20] CG Linden: . thanks for coming, Ziggy
[9:20] Ziggy Sideshow: ..... my pleasure...later
[9:21] CG Linden: . Chaley, can you give me a copy?
[9:21] Chaley May: ....... hey you know there is things we can create that autocad cant?
[9:21] Gellan Glenelg: ... thanks CG
[9:21] Chaley May: ....... well i think in 1 prim we can make upto 7 seperate boxes
[9:21] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... really?
[9:21] Chaley May: ....... yes
[9:21] Chaley May: ....... completely seperate
[9:21] Chaley May: ....... by actually merging vertexes
[9:22] Chaley May: ....... ao they are too small to be seen
[9:22] Chaley May: ....... should i say vertices :P
[9:22] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... so you tell that sculpts can me made in sl?
[9:22] Chaley May: ....... yes
[9:22] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... by scripting?
[9:23] Close Range: .... Spencer Dharnen [34m]
[9:23] Chaley May: ....... the scripts make a HUD or inworld tool you can snapshot
[9:24] Chaley May: ....... you need to set the snapshot to the correct respolution you need
[9:24] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... waw
[9:24] Spencer Dharnen: ............ good morning
[9:24] Chaley May: ....... morning
[9:24] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... Hello! :)
[9:24] CG Linden: . actually, it appears that the tool calls an external php which will generate the texture
[9:24] CG Linden: . and then you can upload it
[9:24] Chaley May: ....... umm there is also a tool to use instead of the php
[9:25] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... what is it?
[9:25] CG Linden: . but this is pretty neat
[9:25] Chaley May: ....... see this i wear CG
[9:25] Chaley May: ....... this egnerates a snapshot
[9:25] Chaley May: ....... it is the sculpt preview
[9:25] CG Linden: . ok
[9:26] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... so if this free where I can get it to try?
[9:26] Chaley May: ....... but yes it originally needed PHP i think they improved it
[9:26] Chaley May: ....... there
[9:26] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... thanks!
[9:27] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... it's need php server?
[9:27] Chaley May: ....... there may be newer versions available now
[9:27] Chaley May: ....... it used to need A PHP SERVER
[9:27] Chaley May: ....... BUT NOW YOU CAN SNAPSHOT IT
[9:27] Chaley May: ....... oops
[9:28] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... great ! php server is not a problem :) What php version must be?
[9:29] Chaley May: ....... i think a php server might be more efficient
[9:29] Chaley May: ....... i dont know what version
[9:29] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... ok :) thank a lot
[9:29] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :)
[9:29] Chaley May: ....... i have not tried that yet but recently i got some webspace i should try
[9:30] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... you can make local php server may be it will help
[9:30] Chaley May: ....... yea
[9:31] Chaley May: ....... really i havent even tested this but i seen others use it
[9:31] Chaley May: ....... i make my sculpties so far on paint
[9:32] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... in paint?
[9:32] Chaley May: ....... yes
[9:32] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... waw!
[9:32] Chaley May: ....... sculpties are far less complicated than people think
[9:32] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... I work in 3D Max and thinking how to export sculpties correctly and you do it in paint waw!
[9:32] Chaley May: ....... they convince themselves they need autocad
[9:33] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :)
[9:33] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... can you show some of your sculpts created in paint?
[9:33] Chaley May: ....... i can tell you how to make a box
[9:34] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :)
[9:34] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... interesting
[9:34] Chaley May: ....... ok but i only made boxes so far lol
[9:34] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :))
[9:34] Chaley May: ....... there is no making curves in paint
[9:34] Chaley May: ....... too hard to do that you can get nice edges
[9:34] Chaley May: ....... oh wait i made stairs where are they
[9:34] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... I think so too but everything can happen
[9:34] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :)
[9:36] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... thanks!
[9:36] Chaley May: ....... that us the stairs texture i made in paint
[9:36] Chaley May: ....... it took a long time
[9:36] Chaley May: ....... and the gradients ended up not so perfect
[9:37] Chaley May: ....... but that was gimps fault
[9:37] Chaley May: ....... if you imagine each color as being a 3D point in space then you can make them
[9:37] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... I yhink in any way it's great!
[9:39] Chaley May: ....... i can make better looking stars than that now it was my first attempt with a gradient in a paint program
[9:39] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... I try to export from 3D max and Maya and from Blender. Some export good and most exported not correctly
[9:40] Chaley May: ....... yeah i only used blender
[9:40] Chaley May: ....... i hated it
[9:40] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :)
[9:40] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... yes
[9:40] Chaley May: ....... i made the coctail glass tutorial
[9:40] Chaley May: ....... after that i thought never again!
[9:41] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... :)
[9:41] Chaley May: ....... i have no patience for them :)
[9:41] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... I think our dear programer - magicans will create tool for good export :)
[9:42] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... *I hope
[9:42] Chaley May: ....... maybe]
[9:43] Chaley May: ....... hey i can show you a place
[9:43] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... Very interesting why Lindens create such format as sculpties why not *.obj export all people us it :)
[9:43] Chaley May: ....... where a guy has made stars
[9:43] Chaley May: ....... with 1 prim
[9:43] Chaley May: ....... you should see there what people can really do with SL sculpties
[9:44] Chaley May: ....... would be great for jewels
[9:44] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... great!
[9:44] FaiRodis Aviatik: ......... show me please
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