Community Tools User Group/13-October-2011

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Transcript for Thursday October 13, 2011

[13:04] Jeremy Linden Jeremy Linden waits for his chair to rez.
[13:05] lonetorus Habilis lonetorus Habilis waits for his locker to get autoreturned
[13:05] Melvin Starbrook tala all
[13:05] lonetorus Habilis jeremy, why dont you set autoreturn to something more user group visitor frienddly, like 30 minutes?
[13:06] Jeremy Linden I might, lonetorus. I'll need to take a survey of all the stuff I've got here, though, since I didn't initially own the plot. It wouldn't do for all this stuff to get returned!
[13:06] lonetorus Habilis especially not the lsl anti autoreturn bug has been patched ;)
[13:07] Jeremy Linden One of the reasons I originally turned off building was because we had a bunch of griefers one week. I suppose that hasn't happened in awhile...
[13:07] lonetorus Habilis jeremy, but surely you can redecorate it, or is it just a temporary ownership?
[13:07] lonetorus Habilis or are others still using it for user groups?
[13:08] Jeremy Linden More like I haven't had the time to figure out what the ideal parcel permissions would be here once Jon left :-P
[13:08] lonetorus Habilis im trying to get builder friendly enviroments for all the user groups i go to, i like to sit and whittle away at some sculpt while listening to the chat
[13:08] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) do we have an genda this week jerenmey?
[13:08] Torben (torben.trautman) this is now Jeremy's office hour with a biweekly guest appearance from Rand ;)
[13:08] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) jeremy*
[13:09] Jeremy Linden Heh! It's come full circle... This used to be my office hour location waaay back.
[13:09] Torben (torben.trautman) all the great things come back one day xD
[13:09] Jeremy Linden Anyway, I don't have any specific agenda for today. As always the user group page is at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group
[13:09] Jeremy Linden However, most of those things are best handled by Lexie, and she's going to be out for another few weeks :-(
[13:10] lonetorus Habilis hehehe, thats cool when that happens, i wonder how soon it will be before qarl starts having office hours at his sim again, now with hissoon to be comissioned programming work
[13:10] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) not prying, but is she okay?
[13:10] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) if yu can say
[13:11] Jeremy Linden I actually don't know, and it wouldn't be proper for me to say if I did. All I know is she's supposed to be back in the beginning of November.
[13:11] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) that's fair enough - i did say not prying, jsut wondered if she was okay
[13:11] Jeremy Linden As for Rand... I'm not sure where he's at today!
[13:11] Knowl Paine that is good news
[13:12] Knowl Paine no real change til she gets back is not great news
[13:12] Torben (torben.trautman) I added a topic to the agenda
[13:13] Jeremy Linden Well, for those of you following mesh news, there's another mesh update coming soon that I've been working on documentation for.
[13:13] Knowl Paine :)
[13:13] lonetorus Habilis what does the chnage involve?
[13:13] Melvin Starbrook trying out the development viewr now :)
[13:13] Jeremy Linden From a reference standpoint, one of the big changes is that "prim equivalence" is going to be called "land impact". It's the same number, but it makes clear that land usage is not the same as number of prims. :-)
[13:13] Melvin Starbrook wondering how i can make it stop rebaking everything over and over again lol
[13:13] Knowl Paine lol
[13:14] lonetorus Habilis so, a renaming, thats like a pig with lipstick, parden my french
[13:15] lonetorus Habilis an not your table of course, thats policy XD
[13:15] Jeremy Linden Maybe. Except now it's really clear that you're talking about the lipstick, not the pig!
[13:15] Knowl Paine yes
[13:15] lonetorus Habilis (referring to the much hated and confusing land impact calculations)
[13:15] Nal (nalates.urriah) Using PE was a poor choice of terms. The change is a good thing.
[13:16] lonetorus Habilis a friend made a mesh house, it was 2 prims with roof, and 3 prims if she removed the roof
[13:16] Jeremy Linden Some of you may also have noticed that your billing options have changed slightly. We've been moving international customers over to the same billing system as US Residents.
[13:16] Jeremy Linden I'm currently working on updating the help docs for that, too.
[13:16] Melvin Starbrook lol
[13:17] Torben (torben.trautman) so billing is back to normal and that crappy experimenting is over?
[13:17] lonetorus Habilis has there been any further thoughts on best practices regarding content creation, its something i have brought up in the past, actually since the beginning of closed mesh beta
[13:17] Jeremy Linden I can't really comment on that, Torben, but it appears to be somewhat simplified.
[13:18] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) torbe i hear ya
[13:18] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) let's get back to the old system that worked
[13:18] lonetorus Habilis ie, a wiki guide on content creation, espevially geared towards mesh texture optimizations
[13:18] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) instead of getting emails saying "hey you owe us money" and not our fault
[13:18] Jeremy Linden Actually, I had a watercooler discussion about best practices with Oz yesterday. Do you think if I started a wiki page for various best practices that Residents would help me out with vital info?
[13:18] lonetorus Habilis mesh _and_ texture XD
[13:19] Knowl Paine it a good idea
[13:19] lonetorus Habilis at least its a start, the issue here is, that you need input from ppl like, andrew, nyx, runitai etc
[13:19] Jeremy Linden Not to mention things like "make your resizer scripts delete themselves from attachments once they've done their job" :-)
[13:19] lonetorus Habilis making our own guides puts us nowhere nearer the goal
[13:19] Nal (nalates.urriah) You can try it and see. Some bloggers will advertise the effort and some posts on SLUniverse will get it more attention.
[13:19] lonetorus Habilis as the point is that the best practices should be from the pov of the engine coders
[13:20] Knowl Paine it should also include the most basic first steps to getting started
[13:20] Jeremy Linden Maybe, but the engine coders aren't necessarily content creators. They might not know the best tricks for getting the best results for the fewest triangles, etc.
[13:20] lonetorus Habilis when im working on rl 3d engines, i can always ask my progreammer what he thinks is reasonable texture sizes, polygon count etc for his engine on given hardware
[13:21] Ugleh Ulrik Can i safely assume this group also talks about ideas and suggestions about the Marketplace?
[13:21] lonetorus Habilis some things are of cource obvious, like texture sizes, you see it quite often, jeewlery or shoes that contains 50+ mb of textures
[13:21] lonetorus Habilis lemme rez you an example of that XD
[13:21] Knowl Paine as related to the Forum I think
[13:22] lonetorus Habilis its on my head
[13:22] Jeremy Linden Heh. We're actually getting a little off-topic. This user group is meant to address issues with the Lithium platform (forums, blogs, and knowledge base software). As well as wiki articles and online help.
[13:22] lonetorus Habilis thats over 60mb of texture data
[13:22] Knowl Paine yes
[13:22] lonetorus Habilis on that one shoe
[13:22] lonetorus Habilis a pretty known brand aswell
[13:22] lonetorus Habilis (this copy i ahev is copybotted)
[13:23] lonetorus Habilis and it kills me a little bit every time i see things like this in sl
[13:23] lonetorus Habilis also tricks on how to use info from the viewver to help your builds
[13:23] lonetorus Habilis ie the texture panel (ctrl + shift + 3) that will show you texture sizes on selected objects
[13:23] Jeremy Linden Well then the best practice would be something like, "Use textures that are just large enough to look right from 'x' distance in order to minimize loading time and streaming cost."
[13:24] Knowl Paine any word on changes to ranks, many weeks ago Rand mentioned he would increase the Kudo limit of 4 per hour, that change doesn't appear to have been applied.
[13:24] lonetorus Habilis yeah, probably better to give some examples, like, 256x256 non tiled is apropriate for objects up to 4m^3
[13:24] Knowl Paine 2 q's there
[13:25] Jeremy Linden Hey Knowl. I haven't heard anything about Kudos changes, and I'm actually not sure if Rand has the ability to change that. I'll ask him about it next time I see him!
[13:25] Knowl Paine ty
[13:25] Jeremy Linden I also haven't heard anything about ranks; I assume that would be a Lexie thing :-/
[13:26] Knowl Paine I think it is Lithium thing
[13:26] Jeremy Linden Hey lonetorus, it sounds like you've got a lot of very useful data for the best practices page. I'm gonna create it right now!
[13:26] lonetorus Habilis \o/
[13:27] Knowl Paine I look forward to reading it, idk much about mesh
[13:27] Knowl Paine I've been reading, add some 3Dmax tips
[13:28] Knowl Paine or pointers
[13:28] Jeremy Linden Well I imagine mesh will be a big part of it, but there are tons of good practices out there for any kind of content creation in SL. Texturing, scripting, animation, sounds, gestures...
[13:28] Knowl Paine ahh
[13:28] lonetorus Habilis exactly
[13:28] lonetorus Habilis and the mesh stuff is still pretty much in the dark
[13:28] Second Life Nosmo King (nosmo) is now known as Nosmo King.
[13:28] lonetorus Habilis the PE is fiendishly hard to work with
[13:29] Jeremy Linden Yeah, I added a bit of language to the updated articles for the new mesh release to help clarify land impact a bit.
[13:30] Jeremy Linden Is there any particular part of it you're having trouble with?
[13:30] lonetorus Habilis i was part of the mesh closed beta, but now im not touching it untill some clearer documentation on the PE and best practices in this regard, because as it stands now i can more often than not make more with good old sculpts (less prims) than i can with mesh
[13:31] Melvin Starbrook wish i could make the viewer work at all first..
[13:31] Melvin Starbrook all is blurry now :/
[13:31] lonetorus Habilis its hard to figure out what in a specific build will impact the PE
[13:31] Jeremy Linden Ok, basic page is up: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_creation_best_practices
[13:31] lonetorus Habilis so you end up trying all sort of things
[13:31] lonetorus Habilis making lots and lots of test imports (on beta grid, otherwise you go bankrupt instantly)
[13:31] lonetorus Habilis XD
[13:32] Nal (nalates.urriah) It took me a bit to find this, but Drongle does a good job of explanning PE/LI here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Question-about-prim-equivalents-land-impact/m-p/1163121#M7859
[13:32] Jeremy Linden Basically, something gets calculated by Land Impact rather than prim count if it's got any mesh objects linked to it... OR if the "physics type" (new thing) is set to anything besides "prim".
[13:33] lonetorus Habilis yeh, he was in the closed beta aswell, and seems he really helped a lot, very active person
[13:33] Jeremy Linden Oh, actually, I just remembered:
[13:34] Jeremy Linden https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/FAQ_for_mesh_content_creators
[13:34] Jeremy Linden Dan helped me put that together, and I got a lot of input from the Mesh team as well.
[13:35] lonetorus Habilis lonetorus Habilis takes a look :)
[13:35] Knowl Paine how many prim types?, the old 10 limit the new larger ones, sculpts and mesh? 4?
[13:35] lonetorus Habilis i tried making this cactus as mesh, but meh it always ends up more than 2 prims
[13:36] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) i love typos
[13:36] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) searching bagman linde,. put it batman linden
[13:36] Jeremy Linden Did you get any results?
[13:36] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) na :(
[13:37] Knowl Paine the 670 I think
[13:37] Knowl Paine 670 Lindens at the forum search results
[13:37] Second Life This object is not for sale.
[13:37] lonetorus Habilis heh, i have a script somewhere, from SLB6 that sends a nc or object to every single linden ever emplyed at ll
[13:38] Jeremy Linden Oy!
[13:38] lonetorus Habilis im sorry, you didnt like the cupcakes? ;)
[13:38] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) gimmee!!!
[13:39] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) The Man From Del Monte starts looking for all the good stuff
[13:39] Jeremy Linden Haha. I actually get tons of help requests because my name is on every single KB article as a "top contributor". People think it means I worked on every feature ever :-)
[13:39] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) i will give you credit there jeremy, you DO rank up there as one of the bgest ones i've met
[13:39] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) best*
[13:39] Jeremy Linden Whew, for a second there I thought you said "biggest".
[13:40] lonetorus Habilis rockstar coders like falcon or runitai are still only as good as their documentation ;)
[13:40] Jeremy Linden Indeed. And they both help me out a ton when I need to understand the technical stuff for the docs.
[13:41] Jeremy Linden Aha, Rand's on his way now!
[13:42] Jeremy Linden ...in theory!
[13:42] Torben (torben.trautman) hi rand
[13:42] Jeremy Linden Heya Rand.
[13:42] Daniel Voyager Hey Rand
[13:42] lonetorus Habilis yeah, thats good they help out, egocentric loners dont have a place on a team effort XD
[13:43] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) hey rand
[13:43] Jeremy Linden Heh. If the developers didn't help explain things to me, there'd be very little useful documentation for new features! :-)
[13:43] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) muggisn here came up wit ha GREAT prank last night but wasn't sure how jeremy and rand would react
[13:43] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) courtesy of the landing point at boardroom, i was my toilet av, and evry single person gfell into me
[13:44] Rand Linden Hopefully i wont crash this time
[13:44] lonetorus Habilis just look at that network admin from san fransisco who ended up denying access to the government network, because he thoght everyone else was not competent enough, he even denied the mayors request for the passwords
[13:44] lonetorus Habilis hello rand :)
[13:44] Rand Linden Howdy!
[13:44] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) The Man From Del Monte waves hi to rand
[13:44] Rand Linden Maybe I will rez eventually... :-(
[13:45] Torben (torben.trautman) Rand has boobies today
[13:45] Rand Linden sorry im so late
[13:45] Jeremy Linden Rand - I think we had one question for you so far. Knowl wanted to know if you had a chance to raise the limit on Kudos-per-hour in Lithium.
[13:45] Torben (torben.trautman) we might call you Ruth Linden today ;)
[13:45] Rand Linden lol Ruth Linden
[13:45] Rand Linden No, i dont belive we have raised the kudos limit
[13:46] Rand Linden what do you think it should be Knowl?
[13:46] Rand Linden i.e. the limit
[13:47] Knowl Paine I think that my minutes online vs post read or viewed would be a good factor
[13:47] Knowl Paine to review
[13:47] Knowl Paine I think I read about 50 post and hour, there are double selections in there
[13:47] Rand Linden ok let me look into it. Since Lexie is out, these kinds of things have sort of fallen through the cracks
[13:47] Knowl Paine more than 4 hows that
[13:48] Knowl Paine surprise us
[13:48] Knowl Paine peewee is not here but she seconded the motion at the time
[13:49] Rand Linden OK
[13:49] Rand Linden I will see if we can do that
[13:49] Knowl Paine anything extra would be great
[13:50] Knowl Paine helps to send a wink that I see how that person helps
[13:50] Rand Linden So, presumably, you are running into the limit in daily use?
[13:50] Knowl Paine yes
[13:50] Knowl Paine when active
[13:50] Rand Linden And others are as well?
[13:50] Knowl Paine I believe so
[13:50] Torben (torben.trautman) I did a few times
[13:50] Nal (nalates.urriah) Now and then
[13:50] Rand Linden (just trying to make sure we have our ducks in a row before asking for the change)
[13:50] Knowl Paine it easy to do
[13:51] Knowl Paine kudo a couple Q's marked answered then visit the creation category
[13:51] Knowl Paine ur out of kudos
[13:51] Jeremy Linden Too much good information!
[13:52] Jeremy Linden Oh, Rand just crashed again.
[13:52] Torben (torben.trautman) welcome back Rand
[13:52] Knowl Paine wonder what his draw distance is
[13:52] Knowl Paine lol
[13:52] Rand Linden ha thx
[13:52] lonetorus Habilis lonetorus Habilis wonders why he sees more and more ruthed ppl
[13:52] Rand Linden maybe ive been installing too many new viewers :-P
[13:53] Rand Linden messed up my installation(?)
[13:53] Rand Linden i havent crashed this much in quite a while...
[13:53] Torben (torben.trautman) it´s a new feature maybe?
[13:53] Jeremy Linden Hey Rand - https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/How_do_I_fully_uninstall_and_reinstall_Second_Life%3F
[13:53] Jeremy Linden :-D
[13:53] Rand Linden anyway, raising the limit IS easy... but we have to get "approval" to do so.... I just need to justify doing so
[13:53] Rand Linden lol
[13:54] Knowl Paine I will ask other Residents at the forum feedback.
[13:55] Rand Linden ok well i will ask abou it and raise it if possible.
[13:55] Knowl Paine :)
[13:55] Jeremy Linden Ok, we're down to the last 5 minutes. Rand, do you have any updates to share this week?
[13:55] Knowl Paine with Lexie away I understand that things will take time
[13:56] Rand Linden Yes, thx for your patience.
[13:56] Rand Linden I dont really have much right now... we have some exciting stuff in the pipeline, but we cant really talk about it yet...
[13:56] Nal (nalates.urriah) Is teasing part of the managment training at LL?
[13:57] Knowl Paine lol
[13:57] Rand Linden lol
[13:57] Jeremy Linden It's more like the communication policy. We have stuff we REALLY want to talk about, but can't until it's ready to go public.
[13:57] Nal (nalates.urriah) :) you LL's all have it down... :p
[13:57] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) well, big announcxement due at the end of octiber i hear>
[13:58] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) october*
[13:58] lonetorus Habilis yeah its seems unfortunatly that mos tif no all public facing lindens know exactly what they can and cant talk about, do you have some sort of secret tag for new projects or some other general rule to guide what you acnt alk about ?
[13:58] Nal (nalates.urriah) I understnad... but we have to tease back some how
[13:58] lonetorus Habilis or is the contract and nda also stop you from commenting on that?
[13:58] Jeremy Linden Heh. The "secret tag" is whether or not it's been announced on the blog, usually :-)
[13:59] Jeremy Linden Or if it's something that's been in public testing, like mesh.
[13:59] Rand Linden Right. Worker bees like Jeremy and myself dont generally "announce" things...
[13:59] Nal (nalates.urriah) You've seen Rod's leaks at SLUniverse?
[13:59] Torben (torben.trautman) it seems it´s safe to call it a day ;)
[13:59] Torben (torben.trautman) bye all
[13:59] lonetorus Habilis yeah, still sucks you cant talk about whats going on currently XD
[13:59] Torben (torben.trautman) Torben waves and poofs
[13:59] Jeremy Linden Bye Torben, thanks for coming.
[14:00] Jeremy Linden Oy. Rand just crashed again.
[14:00] Knowl Paine bye :)
[14:00] Knowl Paine fast way out
[14:00] Melvin Starbrook oops
[14:00] lonetorus Habilis the residents can be quick to whip up a storm on some rumor ;)
[14:00] Nal (nalates.urriah) O.O
[14:01] Knowl Paine a little Storm is good
[14:01] Jeremy Linden Well, part of the reason we can't talk about stuff that's still in development is that it can often cause people to... "extrapolate" what it'll be like when it's done and then get upset (or worse, excited) about something that will change a lot before it's ready to go public for real.
[14:01] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) The Man From Del Monte is outta here now - she who msut be obeyed is due on
[14:02] Nal (nalates.urriah) People tend to make things as dark and disasterious as they can possibly imagine. Sad.
[14:02] lonetorus Habilis indeed, we have gone through quite a few of these high drama periods over the years XD
[14:02] Jeremy Linden For those of you still here, Rand wanted to share http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/CEO-Rodvik-Humble-Shares-What-s-New-in-Second-Life/ba-p/1143239
[14:02] Knowl Paine it's better to say less
[14:02] Time Minder You have been online for 1 hours.
[14:02] Rand Linden 'Ere I am, J.H.
[14:02] Knowl Paine is that the Video?
[14:02] Knowl Paine interview?
[14:02] Nal (nalates.urriah) He expands on that at SlUniverse
[14:02] Knowl Paine I will look
[14:03] The Man From Del Monte (adamburp.adamczyk) have yo ua link to that on slu?
[14:03] Jeremy Linden Ok, I'm gonna cut for the transcript here!
[14:03] Nal (nalates.urriah) http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/13/sl-viewer-interface-to-change/