From Second Life Wiki
< Doc Team
[2008/03/07 13:55] You: Hey everyone, welcome to Documentation Office Hours! ...in about 5 minutes :-) [2008/03/07 13:56] Lionheart Stoop: hi jeremy. i'm actually looking for a Linden that might be able to help me with a problem. [2008/03/07 13:56] WidgetHUD v1.1: Lionheart Stoop has pinged you. [2008/03/07 13:57] Kaiya Qunhua: I'm sorry if I'm crashing a meeting. I have a conference presentation in sl tomorrow and I think I've been "ruthed". Can anyone help me? I've tried several different things: logged off and on; reinstalled sl; rebaked textures; debug character vis. Can anyone help me? [2008/03/07 13:57] You: Ooh... Hm. Kaiya, do you have your normal outfit saved in a folder somewhere? [2008/03/07 13:58] You: Lionheart, I'm afraid I probably won't be able to help you directly, but I may know where you should look for proper assistance :-) [2008/03/07 13:58] Kaiya Qunhua: I can't put anything on in my inventory. It keeps saying my clothes are still loading. I can't edit my appearance. [2008/03/07 13:59] Spencer Dharnen: and i may be in the COMPLETELY wrong place. I saw Jon Linden had something about captioning in his profile, and I wanted to ask a question. Will Jon be here as well? [2008/03/07 13:59] You: Yes, Jon will be here. He'll be in the form of a giant hermit crab :-) [2008/03/07 13:59] Lionheart Stoop: well its about a buisness spamming the event calander, i've sent 2 abuse reports, but the buisness, keeps doing it. [2008/03/07 13:59] Spencer Dharnen: you lindens are odd lol [2008/03/07 13:59] You: Yes we are! [2008/03/07 13:59] You: Kaiya, how long has this been happening to you? [2008/03/07 14:00] Kaiya Qunhua: It's been five hours now. [2008/03/07 14:00] Spencer Dharnen: hi becky....havent i seen you at Q lindens office hours? [2008/03/07 14:00] You: And you say you've even tried reinstalling Second Life? [2008/03/07 14:00] Becky Pippen: yes you have :-) [2008/03/07 14:01] Kaiya Qunhua: Yes, I reinstalled it and accessed sl from a different computer and I still look the same. [2008/03/07 14:01] Spencer Dharnen: hi again, then! :-) [2008/03/07 14:02] You: Hm. I'm not the right person to try to work on that, but I bet you can get proper help if you visit the support portal and submit a ticket-- make sure the ticket type is set to "Technical Issue" [2008/03/07 14:02] Spencer Dharnen: hi Jon.....I wanted to make sure I'm in the right place. "Town Hall Closed Captioning"is in your profile. I had some questions about what that meant. [2008/03/07 14:02] Jon Linden: it is? [2008/03/07 14:02] Jon Linden: man, profile maintenance is apparently not my strong suit [2008/03/07 14:02] Kaiya Qunhua: I filled out a ticket for special questions since I have a basic account. [2008/03/07 14:02] You: Heh. It's a group you're in, Jon. [2008/03/07 14:03] Spencer Dharnen: "Linden Town Hall Closed Captioning" [2008/03/07 14:03] Jon Linden: oh, that [2008/03/07 14:03] Becky Pippen: Jon may have joined a group for chat relay during some old town hall meeting [2008/03/07 14:03] Jon Linden: that is precisely what it is [2008/03/07 14:03] Spencer Dharnen: oh. [2008/03/07 14:03] Jon Linden: i should probably clean out those old group memberships! [2008/03/07 14:04] You: Ooh, hm... Special questions would be the right type, then. [2008/03/07 14:04] Spencer Dharnen: I was concerned about the impact of voice chat on deaf SL residents [2008/03/07 14:04] Spencer Dharnen: so i saw the word "captioning" and came here just to see what's what? [2008/03/07 14:04] Spencer Dharnen: but i may be in the completely wrong place. [2008/03/07 14:05] Jon Linden: in the sense that i have nothing to do with the team working on Voice, that's at least partially accurate [2008/03/07 14:05] Spencer Dharnen: except for the fact that i am now REALLY in the mood for a crab cake..... [2008/03/07 14:05] Jon Linden: hermit crabs aren't tasty! [2008/03/07 14:05] Spencer Dharnen: :-( [2008/03/07 14:05] You: Heh. We don't currently provide closed-captioning for voice, but it's important to note that voice is not intended to replace text as the only means of communication in Second Life. It's just another tool we can leverage in situations where it would be useful :-) [2008/03/07 14:05] Jon Linden: exactly [2008/03/07 14:06] Spencer Dharnen: its just that a lot more presentations are occurring in voice only formats [2008/03/07 14:06] Spencer Dharnen: and deaf people i know have expressed concerns [2008/03/07 14:06] Jon Linden: that's something for those people to bring up with the presentation-givers [2008/03/07 14:06] Spencer Dharnen: any movement toward the possibility of addressing that.....maybe with an interface with voice recogntion voice to text software? [2008/03/07 14:07] You: I can imagine someone present at the event could transcribe what has been said for the audience... much like the people who communicate current presentations in sign langauge in real life. [2008/03/07 14:07] Jon Linden: i think it's been brought up before internally -- that's the reason we don't hold office hours in voice, for instance: we want to have a written record of what was said [2008/03/07 14:07] Jon Linden: but i think the speech-to-text solutions that have been looked into were either not up to snuff, or expensive [2008/03/07 14:08] Jon Linden: i can probably ask around [2008/03/07 14:08] Jon Linden: i have a list of "office hour items" in one of my notepads [2008/03/07 14:08] Arawn Spitteler couldn't use voice, by reason of system limits, but can see how some might be enamoured of their own tonsils: My experience with Naturally Speaking were not good enough, that I'd've tried recently. [2008/03/07 14:10] Kaiya Qunhua: Thank you for your help, Jeremy! I hope someone will respond to my ticket before my presentation tomorrow. Sorry to interrupt your meeting. Bye! [2008/03/07 14:10] WidgetHUD v1.1: Kaiya Qunhua has pinged you. [2008/03/07 14:10] You: Sorry I couldn't help more, Kaiya... I'm asking around right now. I'll let you know if I learn anything. [2008/03/07 14:11] Jon Linden: it's actually a good thing that we don't hold these meetings in voice, because none of you have to be subjected to the sound of me blowing my nose if I've got PTT off accidentally [2008/03/07 14:11] Arawn Spitteler: I just had a buggy building class. A documentation of Weather Alerts, might b e in order. [2008/03/07 14:12] Jon Linden: weather alerts? [2008/03/07 14:12] Jeremy Linden raises an eyebrow. [2008/03/07 14:12] Lionheart Stoop: excuse me for just a moment... [2008/03/07 14:12] Arawn Spitteler: I wasn't trying to rez anything, at the moments, but got a string of these... [12:44] Unable to create requested object. The request timed out. Please try again. [12:44] Evaline Merlin: your stair looks great [12:44] Evaline Merlin: but i have a little fight in getting it well [12:45] Unable to create requested object. The request timed out. Please try again. [12:45] Unable to create requested object. The request timed out. Please try again. [12:45] You: We'd better wind up quickly, 'cause I think we're 'boput to crash [12:45] Unable to create requested object. The request timed out. Please try again. [2008/03/07 14:13] Lionheart Stoop: but was curious if jeremy might know who i would contact for the issue i mentioned a few moments ago [2008/03/07 14:13] WidgetHUD v1.1: Lionheart Stoop has pinged you. [2008/03/07 14:13] Jeremy Linden scrolls back up. [2008/03/07 14:13] Lionheart Stoop: it's about abuse of the event calendar [2008/03/07 14:13] You: Ahh... that sounds like a good question for Jeska Linden's office hours. [2008/03/07 14:14] Becky Pippen: That's a pet peeve of mine, too, Lionheart! [2008/03/07 14:14] You: I actually had a similar complaint today... Jeska tells me she's got people hard at work working on upgrading the event calendar to avoid abuse like that. [2008/03/07 14:14] Lionheart Stoop: a buisnes has at least 24 events posted between 3 screen names [2008/03/07 14:15] Lionheart Stoop: under 3 different events *region restart* [2008/03/07 14:20] Becky Pippen: that tickled [2008/03/07 14:20] You: Welcome back, Becky. That was an unfortunate time to crash! [2008/03/07 14:20] Jon Linden: agreed [2008/03/07 14:20] You: I had Jeska's office hours link all ready to go... lemme find that guy's name. [2008/03/07 14:21] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours. [2008/03/07 14:21] You: Ah. Lionheart Stoop [2008/03/07 14:21] Becky Pippen: Lionheart Stoop [2008/03/07 14:21] Becky Pippen: :) [2008/03/07 14:22] Jon Linden: i wonder how long it'll be before everyone comes back [2008/03/07 14:23] Jon Linden: i haven't actually had a whole lot of experience with region crashes that weren't related to rolling restarts [2008/03/07 14:23] You: I hope they don't think that happened on purpose! [2008/03/07 14:23] Jon Linden: heh [2008/03/07 14:23] Becky Pippen: You must not get out much to the public areas :-) [2008/03/07 14:23] You: I'll send out a call on our shiny SL Documentation Group [2008/03/07 14:24] Arawn Spitteler: That's what I call Weather [2008/03/07 14:24] You: Aha. That explains the weather alerts thing. [2008/03/07 14:25] Arawn Spitteler: Random Influences of Experience. [2008/03/07 14:25] Arawn Spitteler: A weather alert page would be a very dynamic documentation, at this stage, but programming it would be a challenge [2008/03/07 14:26] Jon Linden: what exactly do you mean by "weather alerts," arawn? do you mean "region crash coming, everybody duck and cover"? [2008/03/07 14:26] Arawn Spitteler: That would be part of it. Also, what's this going on, etc [2008/03/07 14:27] Jon Linden: i'm going to need more details on that second sentence you just typed [2008/03/07 14:27] You: Hm. That might not be good... I just accidentally closed an alert window that popped up because I happened to be hitting "enter" on an IM. [2008/03/07 14:27] Arawn Spitteler: I was just getting my screen filled with Dutch, from a conversation 50 meters distant [2008/03/07 14:27] Jeremy Linden does some mental backtracking. [2008/03/07 14:27] You: Oh. It was the "you can't send a group message" alert. [2008/03/07 14:27] Jon Linden: chat was being broadcast from a distance further than it should've been? [2008/03/07 14:28] Arawn Spitteler: To a distance further, properly [2008/03/07 14:28] Jon Linden: right [2008/03/07 14:28] Jon Linden: but is that what you just experienced? [2008/03/07 14:28] Arawn Spitteler: That was in my building class. [2008/03/07 14:29] Arawn Spitteler: I also had those unable to rez messages, spamming my window, when I wasn't trying to rez anything. It might be someone working on the Group Chat Normality [2008/03/07 14:29] Arawn Spitteler: Did the Sim Crash for you guys too? [2008/03/07 14:30] Jon Linden: yep [2008/03/07 14:30] Arawn Spitteler: I had a hard time, logging back on, until I set to log on at home. [2008/03/07 14:30] Arawn Spitteler: I don't know if that's significant [2008/03/07 14:30] You: It did restart, yes. [2008/03/07 14:31] You: I logged back in at home, and then teleported to Levenhall until Beaumont came back. [2008/03/07 14:32] Arawn Spitteler: If Beaumont was still down, logging in should have sent us where we last logged in, or sent us home. [2008/03/07 14:32] Arawn Spitteler: It claimed a log-in failure, to me. [2008/03/07 14:32] Jon Linden: that was what happened with me; i appeared at the location i last logged in [2008/03/07 14:33] Becky Pippen: About "weather reports", our private estate occasionally updates a "lag report" for our landowners about longer-term trends in sim performance. E.g., http://www.inkwelle.com/lagreport [2008/03/07 14:33] You: Hm. The location I had last logged in was my home :-P [2008/03/07 14:33] Jon Linden: that's an interesting page, Becky [2008/03/07 14:33] You: Hrm. I can't seem to convince Second Life to start a group chat for our group. [2008/03/07 14:34] Becky Pippen: Poo on group chat bugs [2008/03/07 14:34] Arawn Spitteler: I'm getting a long wait [2008/03/07 14:34] You: A long wait followed by an alert? [2008/03/07 14:35] Arawn Spitteler: [14:34] Starting session with Second Life Documentation please wait. [2008/03/07 14:35] Jeremy Linden waits for it.... [2008/03/07 14:35] Arawn Spitteler: I finally got an error starting group chat [2008/03/07 14:35] gilson Jefferson: wat's? [2008/03/07 14:35] You: Hi gilson! Welcome to Documentation Office Hours. [2008/03/07 14:35] gilson Jefferson: hi [2008/03/07 14:36] Arawn Spitteler: We were all just talking about the Weather [2008/03/07 14:36] gilson Jefferson: wat's? [2008/03/07 14:36] You: Feel free to have a seat and chat about your experiences with the Knowledge Base, or our other forms of online help :-) [2008/03/07 14:36] gilson Jefferson: help me plaese [2008/03/07 14:36] You: What would you like to know? [2008/03/07 14:37] gilson Jefferson: my island [2008/03/07 14:37] Arawn Spitteler: Help Island? [2008/03/07 14:37] gilson Jefferson: yes [2008/03/07 14:37] Arawn Spitteler: Pull up your map, second blue button from the right [2008/03/07 14:37] gilson Jefferson accepted your inventory offer. [2008/03/07 14:37] gilson Jefferson: you speak portugese [2008/03/07 14:37] You: There you go... do you know how to use a landmark? [2008/03/07 14:38] gilson Jefferson: ? [2008/03/07 14:38] You: Sorry, I do not speak any language except English. [2008/03/07 14:38] gilson Jefferson: my island [2008/03/07 14:38] Jon Linden: are you looking for Public Help Island, or Public Orientation Island? [2008/03/07 14:38] Arawn Spitteler has babbler, but Scripting is off. [2008/03/07 14:39] gilson Jefferson: ahh [2008/03/07 14:39] gilson Jefferson: shit [2008/03/07 14:39] You: gilson, do you see the object I gave you? It says "Orientation Island Public", and it has the options "Teleport" and "Show on map"? [2008/03/07 14:39] Arawn Spitteler: Can you click on "Mini-Map?" [2008/03/07 14:39] gilson Jefferson: tanks [2008/03/07 14:40] You: Yay landmarks. [2008/03/07 14:40] Jon Linden: well done [2008/03/07 14:40] You: I hope that's where he wanted to go! [2008/03/07 14:40] Jon Linden: probably [2008/03/07 14:40] Arawn Spitteler: Lag is kind of like being drunk; you walk better, once you're used to it. [2008/03/07 14:40] Becky Pippen: lol [2008/03/07 14:40] You: (It actually shares a border with Beaumont, but it's easier just to teleport him there) [2008/03/07 14:41] Arawn Spitteler: I seem to recall an Access Line, in the way [2008/03/07 14:41] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Liliea [2008/03/07 14:41] Jon Linden: i have a topic for discussion i was thinking of bringing up [2008/03/07 14:41] Becky Pippen: yay topics! [2008/03/07 14:41] Jeremy Linden listens. [2008/03/07 14:42] Jon Linden: we're thinking of conducting a survey of users of the Support Portal re: the Knowledge Base and its helpfulness [2008/03/07 14:42] Jon Linden: the basic questions we've got are as follows: [2008/03/07 14:42] You: (maybe a notecard is in order here, Jon) [2008/03/07 14:42] Jon Linden: "i seek out the KB when..." [2008/03/07 14:42] Jon Linden: (i'll just summarize 'em) [2008/03/07 14:43] Jon Linden: "my KB search most often ends in... (success) (failure)" [2008/03/07 14:43] Jon Linden: "my general stress level before and after attempting to access the KB is ..." (a value from 1-10) [2008/03/07 14:43] Jon Linden: "new topics I'd like to see in the KB are..." (write-in) [2008/03/07 14:43] Jon Linden: that's about it [2008/03/07 14:43] Jon Linden: can you think of anything else we might want to ask? [2008/03/07 14:44] Becky Pippen: and... "I (would)(would not) use the KB again." [2008/03/07 14:44] Jon Linden accepted your inventory offer. [2008/03/07 14:44] You: Ooh, fair enough. [2008/03/07 14:44] Jon Linden: jeremy, all handy with the notecards! [2008/03/07 14:44] WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you. [2008/03/07 14:44] Jon Linden: that's a good one, Becky [2008/03/07 14:44] Arawn Spitteler: "Would you recommend the KB:" [2008/03/07 14:44] Becky Pippen accepted your inventory offer. [2008/03/07 14:45] Arawn Spitteler accepted your inventory offer. [2008/03/07 14:45] Jon Linden: that seems kind of like the same thing, from a different angle [2008/03/07 14:46] You: The focus of the survey is to try to find out what type of information people are looking for, and what mental state they're in when they decide they need to look for it... Knowing this can help us adjust the tone and style of our articles to suit our most common seekers :-) [2008/03/07 14:46] Arawn Spitteler: A list of popular circumstances, that he'd recommend the KB for, or not, might give an idea of usability [2008/03/07 14:46] Jon Linden: we tried compiling such a list, and it turned out to be kind of unwieldy and noisy for our survey purposes [2008/03/07 14:47] Jon Linden: but that's a good instinct nonetheless [2008/03/07 14:48] You: For example: Someone who has become frustrated trying to fix a problem inworld will want a no-nonsense answer NOW, while a casual browser who is just reading for enjoyment might appreciate a bit more humanity in our writing style. [2008/03/07 14:48] Becky Pippen: well said [2008/03/07 14:48] Jon Linden: we'll probably delay the survey until after the new support navigation has rolled out and had a chance to be used [2008/03/07 14:49] Arawn Spitteler: I'd favor quickness of applicable answer, and humanity of explanation. [2008/03/07 14:49] Jon Linden: speaking of which, the new support navigation will be coming soon! [2008/03/07 14:49] You: True enough. I think the stress level will fall off a little bit once that goes out. [2008/03/07 14:49] Becky Pippen: yay!! [2008/03/07 14:49] Arawn Spitteler: How's the expectation, on getting out from behind Log-In? [2008/03/07 14:49] Jon Linden: that's part of the new navigation, arawn [2008/03/07 14:49] You: 100% [2008/03/07 14:50] Jon Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/06/support-navigation-changes-coming-soon/ [2008/03/07 14:50] You: That's part of why I personally will love it so much. It's also much cleaner and easier to navigate. Just look at those screenshots! [2008/03/07 14:51] Jon Linden: i think i had something else to talk about, but i can't remember what it was now [2008/03/07 14:51] Jon Linden: it's getting kind of hot in the office, so it's hard to think [2008/03/07 14:51] You: No fair. It's cold here. [2008/03/07 14:52] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, I had an idea, of how to spend your money. [2008/03/07 14:52] Jon Linden: haha [2008/03/07 14:52] Jon Linden: go ahead [2008/03/07 14:52] Arawn Spitteler: Offer a bounty, for Mentors who come up with good KB Pages [2008/03/07 14:53] Jon Linden: that has legal complications, unfortunately [2008/03/07 14:53] Arawn Spitteler: Taxes? [2008/03/07 14:53] Jon Linden: i'm not sure what exactly they are, but i suggested something similar a while ago and that was what the major stumbling block turned out to be [2008/03/07 14:53] Jon Linden: it was sufficiently long ago that i don't remember the exact nature of the problem [2008/03/07 14:54] You: Sometimes I think I should train as a lawyer just so I can know this stuff. [2008/03/07 14:54] Jon Linden: the problem is that sometimes even lawyers don't know exactly -- this whole "virtual world" business is some pioneering stuff [2008/03/07 14:54] Arawn Spitteler: You have to do a lot of Writing, before you study law, so you might not like it. [2008/03/07 14:54] Jon Linden: hrahaha, arawn [2008/03/07 14:55] You: Me? Writing? [2008/03/07 14:55] Jon Linden: i know how much you hate the stuff, Jeremy [2008/03/07 14:55] WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you. [2008/03/07 14:55] Arawn Spitteler: Talk to a lawyer, just to see how Tech Writing can help his proffession. [2008/03/07 14:56] You: Heh. I bet! [2008/03/07 14:56] Arawn Spitteler: You might want to be stronger in Latin, and the Constitution, and I'm sure practice in Sangraal wouldn't hurt [2008/03/07 14:56] You: Language is pretty important, I know that much. [2008/03/07 14:56] Arawn Spitteler: The last is a magic formula that I'm trying to bring in-world [2008/03/07 14:56] Jon Linden: lawyers are tech writers, after a fashion -- the best of them learn to delineate the moving parts of concepts as opposed to machinery or software, and that's tricky stuff [2008/03/07 14:56] You: Of course, I think proper use of language is important no matter what you're doing. [2008/03/07 14:56] Jon Linden: truth [2008/03/07 14:57] Jon Linden: i seriously cannot remember what the other topic was going to be [2008/03/07 14:57] You: Wiki? [2008/03/07 14:57] Becky Pippen doesn't remember either [2008/03/07 14:57] Jon Linden: that's quite possible! [2008/03/07 14:57] Jon Linden: Jeremy and I will be hammering out the design of our proposed wiki portals by the end of the month [2008/03/07 14:57] WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you. [2008/03/07 14:58] You: Oh dear... [2008/03/07 14:58] You shout: Britany, are you stuck? [2008/03/07 14:58] Arawn Spitteler: How to write Wikis and Jiras, is something, but much is just reading and practicing. [2008/03/07 14:58] You: Hello Britany. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours. [2008/03/07 14:58] Jon Linden: you may yet see the creation of a gentle garden for nascent KB material, alongside an "Advice for New Residents" portal [2008/03/07 14:58] Arawn Spitteler: Yesterday, after I jiraed the matter, CG told me how to take focus out of the Chat History, with the escape key [2008/03/07 14:59] You: Ah, yes. CG's knowledge of Second Life is immense. [2008/03/07 14:59] You: by which I mean "He may possible know more than me, and that's saying a lot." [2008/03/07 14:59] Jon Linden: hello, Britany -- you've arrived at the very tail end of Documentation Office Hours! [2008/03/07 14:59] Arawn Spitteler is the one had to help him with That Ugly Red Column, when neither of us knew what it was called. [2008/03/07 15:00] You: The navigation beacon? [2008/03/07 15:00] Jon Linden: you mean navigation beacons? [2008/03/07 15:00] Arawn Spitteler: The Cheesy Bacon [2008/03/07 15:00] Arawn Spitteler: It has uses, but needs a keystroke suggested for its zappance [2008/03/07 15:01] Arawn Spitteler: I've no idea why it's technically called Cheesy [2008/03/07 15:01] You: You can click on the red arrow on your screen that points to it, or your can right-click your mini-map and select "Stop Tracking" [2008/03/07 15:01] Jon Linden: its origin will forever be a mystery, i'm afraid [2008/03/07 15:01] Jon Linden: with that, i note that we are out of time for this hour! [2008/03/07 15:02] Arawn Spitteler: So there is a way? That wasn't communicated, and I'm a one year resident [2008/03/07 15:02] You: Hm. [2008/03/07 15:02] Jeremy Linden tracks the article down. [2008/03/07 15:03] Arawn Spitteler: I've heard that OIP is the old OI, and it's probably a good idea to have a current OI established. It's a matter of going back to the book you were using. [2008/03/07 15:03] Jon Linden: i'm afraid we've got to head out, folks; it's that time again [2008/03/07 15:04] Becky Pippen: Thanks guys! Take care [2008/03/07 15:04] Jon Linden: next week there'll be excitement, i bet! [2008/03/07 15:04] Arawn Spitteler: Garden of Nascent Articles, I wonder if that could be a sim? [2008/03/07 15:04] You: Thanks for coming! It was nice to have an easier pace this week, after those hyperproductive last two :-) [2008/03/07 15:04] Jon Linden: agreed [2008/03/07 15:04] Becky Pippen: :-) [2008/03/07 15:04] Jon Linden: enjoy your weekends! [2008/03/07 15:05] Arawn Spitteler: Office Hours are where the Geeks learn to play well with others, and should be enjoyed [2008/03/07 15:05] Becky Pippen: time for a Mono meeting on the beta grid! bye! [2008/03/07 15:05] Arawn Spitteler: Ah, right behind you [2008/03/07 15:05] You: Have fun! [2008/03/07 15:05] You: And a good weekend.