Doc Team/2008-06-20

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[14:00]  Becky Pippen: Hi Jeremy, Hi Jon
[14:00]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Becky Pippen has pinged you.
[14:00]  Jon Linden: good afternoon!
[14:00]  Becky Pippen: no, joseef, I'm not
[14:02]  You: Hello Nikhita. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours!
[14:02]  Nikhita Temin: =D
[14:02]  Nikhita Temin: I love your couches
[14:02]  Nikhita Temin: thank you
[14:02]  Nikhita Temin: hello
[14:03]  You: There's no reason for anyone to be uncomfortable at our office hours, that's for sure :-)
[14:03]  Jon Linden: they're the result of a long but entertaining shopping trip!
[14:04]  Nikhita Temin: yay
[14:04]  You: Oh, damn.
[14:05]  You: My away message is still up :-P
[14:05]  Nikhita Temin: oh I see
[14:05]  Nikhita Temin: that's better
[14:05]  Jon Linden: hello Arawn, hello Redrose!
[14:05]  Nikhita Temin: they even have.... omg, a horse!!
[14:06]  Nikhita Temin: yay
[14:06]  You: Welcome back Arawn. Hi Redrose. Nice horse!
[14:06]  Nikhita Temin: <3 <3 <3
[14:06]  You: Or... was-a-horse.
[14:06]  Jon Linden: ok, i was going to ask if the horse had disappeared for anyone else
[14:06]  Arawn Spitteler's mother has been hogging the computer, lately: Occassionaly, I might get in.
[14:07]  Nikhita Temin: bye horsie
[14:07]  You: Heheh.
[14:07]  Arawn Spitteler: I don't see the horse, but still see the animation
[14:07]  Nikhita Temin fishes a sugarcube from her pocket to see if it will return
[14:07]  You: So, first thing first... does anyone have any documentation concerns today? Questions? Comments? Concerns? Donations?
[14:08]  Redrose Alter: Holy Moly Arawn, I can't get out of riding mode :)
[14:08]  Arawn Spitteler: I was just trying to look up, how to copy
[14:08]  Arawn Spitteler: Try the couches
[14:08]  Redrose Alter: If I am interupting a meeting guys, I do apologise.
[14:08]  Arawn Spitteler: I don't know why you'd still be animated, unless there's an AO Hud
[14:08]  You: No worries! This meeting is open to everyone.
[14:09]  Jon Linden: it's pretty much what office hours are for, or at least this one
[14:09]  You: Redrose, have you tried "World > Stop All Animations"?
[14:10]  Jon Linden: depending on which version of the viewer you're using, it might also be in Tools > Stop All Animations
[14:10]  You: Oh, doh. I'm on the RC viewer.
[14:11]  Jon Linden: well, one of us has to stay on the bleeding edge
[14:12]  Object: Hello, Avatar!
[14:12]  Jon Linden: but anyway, folks -- what Jeremy said. questions? concerns? comments? on documentation or related matters?
[14:12]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you.
[14:13]  Nikhita Temin: hmm
[14:13]  Nikhita Temin: I like the documentation
[14:13]  Nikhita Temin: its helpful
[14:13]  Jon Linden: that's always good to hear!
[14:13]  Jon Linden: is there anything not in there you'd like to see? something that could be more helpful?
[14:13]  You: Is there any one feature you like that isn't in other online help systems you've used?
[14:15]  You: Or do you find that you understand our use of language better than some other manuals or online help? :-P
[14:16]  Nikhita Temin: I'm sorry. I never really thought too hard on this, but I think it is nicely laid out and easy to navigate to what I am looking for.
[14:17]  Jon Linden: success!
[14:17]  You: That's a perfectly valid answer! And helpful to us, too :-)
[14:17]  Nikhita Temin: yay
[14:17]  Becky Pippen: wow, it sounds like you guys have done such a good job that you can take the rest of the month off
[14:17]  You: Hahahah.
[14:17]  Nikhita Temin: yeah
[14:17]  Jon Linden: i'll tell the rest of the Lab; they'll understand
[14:17]  Nikhita Temin smiles
[14:18]  Jon Linden: i have a question about the Second Life Showcase
[14:18]  Jon Linden: basically whether any of you use it, and if you've found it helpful/interesting
[14:18]  Becky Pippen: I visited every place on it... then it wasn't novel any longer
[14:19]  You: Even now that Torley has so many of his video tutorials there?
[14:19]  Nikhita Temin: its now the RC viewer?
[14:19]  Jon Linden: speaking of which, that group liabilities one definitely needs to go into the KB (we have an article for it that I can embed it into)
[14:19]  You: Heh. It's on the website. Here, I'll get the link.
[14:20]  You: Here we go: http://secondlife.com/showcase/
[14:20]  Jon Linden: becky, how long did it take you to visit every place there?
[14:20]  Becky Pippen: hmmm... not sure, but I do spend an hour or so every day just visiting new places
[14:21]  Nikhita Temin: okay
[14:21]  Jon Linden: Becky Pippen, SL Explorer
[14:21]  Becky Pippen: :-)
[14:21]  Nikhita Temin: this looks really nice
[14:22]  Becky Pippen: only 13,865 more regions to explore
[14:22]  You: Toda
[14:22]  You: er, Today.
[14:22]  Jon Linden: heheh
[14:23]  You: Hmm.... Do you think there's anything we could do to make people more excited about documentation? Something to get people involved, using the KB, and having fun? :-)
[14:24]  Nikhita Temin: thank you I will use this show case, it looks fun.
[14:24]  Jon Linden: i still like the KB Quiz Show idea, but agree that we should wait until our various cleanup efforts are complete first
[14:24]  You: Indeed.
[14:24]  Becky Pippen: yes! A KB Quiz Show!
[14:25]  Jon Linden: also, we need to round up some prizes
[14:25]  Becky Pippen: I can donate a prize or two if that's acceptable
[14:25]  You: "The L$64,000 Question" :-P
[14:25]  Jon Linden: i'd be in favor of a donated prize or two
[14:26]  You: Ok, maybe that's a little much. But we've got some fun ideas for prizes :-)
[14:26]  You: And I've got nothing against donated prizes, either.
[14:26]  Nikhita Temin: yes games like that would be nice, I am never good at quiz shows though =p
[14:26]  Jon Linden: more on this idea when we're closer to cleanup completion
[14:26]  Overlord HUD [script:;aS]: Script run-time error
[14:26]  Overlord HUD [script:;aS]: Math Error
[14:27]  You: Well, it's something to talk about. The style and technical reviews aren't exactly exciting social events :-)
[14:27]  You: Hi haon. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[14:27]  haon Arado: thank you jeremy
[14:27]  WidgetHUD v1.1: haon Arado has pinged you.
[14:27]  Jon Linden: agreed
[14:27]  Nikhita Temin: hi again haon
[14:28]  haon Arado: hey nikhita :D
[14:28]  You: Feel free to have a seat, ask some questions, perform some antics, or just listen in!
[14:28]  haon Arado: i have a comment
[14:28]  Nikhita Temin: did you ever get to see him?
[14:28]  You: Sure, fire away.
[14:29]  Jon Linden: fire away
[14:29]  haon Arado: i was making an environmental preset the other day and i named the same name as the default preset foggy, both presets exist but i am only able to view the preset that i created
[14:30]  You: Hmm.... so the original "foggy" is just gone, for you?
[14:30]  Arawn Spitteler suspects there's a workaround, if you know the .diddly
[14:30]  Arawn Spitteler: foggy might have a more complete name
[14:30]  haon Arado: yah its still there in my presets but im unable to view it, it just converts me to the one i created
[14:31]  Time Minder: You have been online for 6 hours.
[14:31]  Becky Pippen: you might check if it's related to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4907
[14:31]  You: I'm pinging the old WindLight team as we speak... I worked pretty closely with them on WindLight, but I don't recall this issue.
[14:32]  haon Arado: the original foggy is capitalzed the preset i made is not
[14:33]  You: Processing...
[14:33]  You: Ok....
[14:34]  You: So the answer I'm getting for now.. and not one I would feel comfortable putting in the KB, is that you should open up the WindLight presets XML file and rename the duplicate preset.
[14:34]  haon Arado: ooooooook
[14:34]  haon Arado: :D thank you
[14:35]  You: I'm going to try to find the right file for you, just to be sure.
[14:35]  Jon Linden: looks to me like it's in \Program Files\SecondLife\app_settings\windlight\skies
[14:35]  You: It looks like... what Jon said.
[14:35]  haon Arado: i got it
[14:36]  haon Arado: yah im there i will rename it now
[14:36]  haon Arado: this is strange
[14:36]  haon Arado: it isn't showing the one i created
[14:36]  Arawn Spitteler: So there should probably be an easier way, to change file names
[14:36]  haon Arado: sl deleted it when i logged
[14:36]  Nikhita Temin: my own weather forecast just said.. expect sunshine, until night.
[14:37]  haon Arado: wonder if it debugged itself
[14:37]  You: The day SL can debug itself, I think a lot of very unlikely other things will happen as well.
[14:37]  haon Arado: well i saved the file
[14:37]  haon Arado: yesterday
[14:37]  haon Arado: and today its gone
[14:37]  Arawn Spitteler will ask Barny Boomslang for a Winged Pig Avatar
[14:38]  Jon Linden: at this point i must admit we're sailing into territory i don't know much about re: treatment of user-created environment presets
[14:39]  You: I know a bit about WindLight presets, but it's been awhile since I played with them.
[14:39]  You: After all, someone had to write the documentation for it!
[14:39]  haon Arado: well sl fixed the problem by deleting the file, maybe it recognised that there was a duplicate
[14:39]  You: Maybe, but I don't know, personally. I find that speculating on how something like that works can often lead to some misconceptions.
[14:40]  Jon Linden: i would advise attending an office hour being held by somebody more technical who might be able to shed some light on it
[14:40]  You: (Pun intended?)
[14:40]  haon Arado: indeed im not going to come to any conclusions
[14:40]  Nikhita Temin giggles
[14:40]  Arawn Spitteler: If you try Foggy, do you get yours or the Default Foggy?
[14:40]  Jon Linden: i can take no official stance on the planned nature of said possible pun
[14:41]  haon Arado: its the default
[14:41]  Becky Pippen: lol Jon
[14:41]  You: Problem solved. Mystery created.
[14:41]  haon Arado: LOL
[14:41]  Arawn Spitteler: Well, you might have the problem again, when your inventory si returned
[14:41]  Jon Linden: maybe -- and this is just a guess -- the viewer doesn't pay attention to whether or not preset names are capitalized, and when there's one that's essentially (to it) a duplicate name, Only One Can Live
[14:42]  Jon Linden: <-- not a developer
[14:42]  haon Arado: it lived during my log in period
[14:42]  haon Arado: but when i logged back in again sl destroyed it
[14:42]  Jon Linden: i got nothin'
[14:43]  Jon Linden: i wonder if there's someone who worked on WindLight who has office hours
[14:43]  Jon Linden: there must be
[14:43]  You: Yeah. You can probably find them at the... RC office hours? Bridie's.
[14:43]  haon Arado: would need someone who was actually part of the development of windlight to say why sl did that, doesn't consern me to much though
[14:43]  Oborin Gaffer: Hi
[14:43]  Arawn Spitteler: After that Marathon, he might think all questions answered
[14:43]  haon Arado: hey oborin
[14:44]  Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Oborin
[14:44]  Nikhita Temin: hi oborin
[14:44]  Oborin Gaffer: how are u guys doing?
[14:44]  haon Arado: good ty
[14:44]  Jon Linden: welcome to Documentation Office Hours, Oborin
[14:44]  You: Hello, Oborin.
[14:44]  Nikhita Temin: we are investigating some of the deep mysteries that are in SL
[14:44]  Jon Linden: jeremy usually beats me to the greeting
[14:44]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you.
[14:45]  Jeremy Linden is failing to channel Torley properly today.
[14:45]  Oborin Gaffer: sounds cool lol
[14:45]  You: Only 400wpm!
[14:45]  You: :-P
[14:45]  Jon Linden: heh
[14:45]  Oborin Gaffer: brb
[14:46]  Arawn Spitteler: We need a Friendly Greetings Gesture
[14:46]  Arawn Spitteler: Complete with Bell
[14:46]  You: I think someone should make a YouTube video that cuts together all the times Torley has actually said "Friendly Greetings" on video.
[14:46]  haon Arado: thank you everyone for shedding some light on this mystery
[14:46]  Jon Linden: that would be a long video
[14:46]  haon Arado: that would be hilarious
[14:46]  Nikhita Temin: haha
[14:46]  Jon Linden: haon, you're welcome
[14:47]  haon Arado: cya all
[14:47]  You: Have fun, and good luck!
[14:47]  You: Hello, Almagest. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[14:47]  Almagest Alter: hi
[14:48]  Almagest Alter: but my question is different from the topic
[14:48]  Jon Linden: how different?
[14:48]  You: We can take a shot at it, but like the sign says... we can't guarantee results if it's not about (or in) the documentation.
[14:48]  Nikhita Temin: hi Almagest
[14:49]  Almagest Alter: hi
[14:49]  Nikhita Temin: oooh you're all glowy
[14:49]  Soap Clawtooth is rezzing and apologises for standing on anyone/thing.
[14:49]  You: So, I guess that means "Go for it," Almagest :-)
[14:50]  You: Hello, sempresereno. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[14:50]  Almagest Alter: it not a simlp problem
[14:50]  Soap Clawtooth: Hey jeremy :)
[14:50]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Soap Clawtooth has pinged you.
[14:50]  You: And hello to Soap, too.
[14:51]  Oborin Gaffer: i have a question
[14:51]  Oborin Gaffer: why cant i access the sandboxes on orientation island?
[14:51]  Oborin Gaffer: yes
[14:51]  Oborin Gaffer: they are just big grey squares and i cant go there
[14:51]  Nikhita Temin: h i Soap
[14:51]  You: Right now?
[14:52]  Soap Clawtooth: Hi nikhita :)
[14:52]  You: Well, unless you're talking about public Orientation Island, you should be aware that once you leave OI, you can never go back...
[14:52]  Oborin Gaffer: idk whats going on...
[14:52]  Arawn Spitteler: Orientation Island? Once allowed to leave, you can't go home again.
[14:52]  Oborin Gaffer: :(
[14:52]  Oborin Gaffer: lol
[14:52]  You: However, there is a public orientation island literally right next door to this office.
[14:53]  Arawn Spitteler: Did yoou get a picture of that dragon?
[14:53]  You: If you fly South, you'll find it on its own island.
[14:53]  Arawn Spitteler: It's not the same OI, though, but an older one.
[14:53]  You: Yeah.
[14:53]  Oborin Gaffer: idk why i cant access the sandbox tho, am i the only one?
[14:53]  Arawn Spitteler: Sandbox, on OI?
[14:54]  Oborin Gaffer: might be on help island
[14:54]  You: Ah. Help Island is another one you can't go back to once you leave... but there is also a public version of Help Island right near here.
[14:54]  Oborin Gaffer: ah
[14:54]  Soap Clawtooth: I think he means HIP.
[14:55]  You: It is to the west for Public Orientation Island.
[14:55]  Oborin Gaffer: i go to the sandbox there every day but now i cant
[14:55]  Arawn Spitteler: They've shortened the return time, though
[14:55]  Oborin Gaffer: yeah its HIP, should have said that
[14:55]  You: Yeah, Help Island Public.
[14:55]  You: Hm... looks ok on my map...
[14:55]  Soap Clawtooth: It appears fine to me.
[14:55]  Oborin Gaffer: its grey here
[14:55]  Arawn Spitteler: HIP has no people
[14:55]  Soap Clawtooth: Yes. I had noticed that.
[14:55]  Jon Linden: there seem to be a lot of other sandboxes turning up in search
[14:55]  Arawn Spitteler: Map shows it there but empty
[14:56]  You: Jon, can you hold down the fort for a minute? I want to see this.
[14:56]  Arawn Spitteler: Have you tried HIP2?
[14:56]  Oborin Gaffer: tried both
[14:57]  You: Visually, it looks like it's down.
[14:57]  Soap Clawtooth: And here he is :)
[14:57]  You: I'll let the Support team know.
[14:57]  Oborin Gaffer: Yeah i know
[14:57]  Oborin Gaffer: Alright
[14:57]  Arawn Spitteler: Mentors should've mentioned something, long since.
[14:58]  Soap Clawtooth: Sorry I was late by the way, lol. I only remembered last minute where I was supposed to be.
[14:58]  Jon Linden: that's no problem; we're here every week at the same time
[14:58]  Jon Linden: feel free to stop by next week!
[14:58]  Oborin Gaffer: well im off, thanks for ur help. cya guys
[14:58]  Soap Clawtooth: I shall.
[14:58]  Jon Linden: speaking of which, hello, Svetlana
[14:58]  You: Enjoy, Oborin.
[14:58]  Arawn Spitteler: I just sent email to a friend on HIP2, and she's suddenly not on line.
[14:59]  Soap Clawtooth: oh btw... did Torley forward you my email?
[14:59]  You: Aha! I think so, Soap.
[14:59]  Soap Clawtooth nods.
[14:59]  Soap Clawtooth: T'would be a good idea, i think.
[14:59]  You: I've had it in my to-do list for a few months now... I just need to get to a point where I have time to work on it :-)
[15:00]  Soap Clawtooth: chuckle.
[15:00]  Jon Linden: and speaking of time, we have gotten to the end of our hour
[15:00]  Soap Clawtooth: I had a further idea for it...that 'login screen' that shows the beach scene when you start up Second life.
[15:00]  Soap Clawtooth: Why not use it? Pick out 'interesting' places to visit as 'picks of the week' and showcase them on that for new folk to see?
[15:01]  Jon Linden: i've got to run, folks -- some things to take care of before the work week ends
[15:01]  You: That sounds like fun!
[15:01]  Soap Clawtooth: Cya jon :)
[15:01]  Becky Pippen: Bye Jon
[15:01]  You: The showcase, not the work.
[15:01]  Jon Linden: have an excellent weekend!
[15:01]  Nikhita Temin: bye have a nice weekend
[15:01]  Jon Linden: heh
[15:01]  You: Though the work is probably fun too.
[15:01]  Soap Clawtooth: It could include a small summary of the sim and a slurl.
[15:01]  Soap Clawtooth: Clicking on the slurl would ideally log you in and take you straight there...
[15:02]  You: Geat idea!
[15:02]  You: er, great
[15:02]  Soap Clawtooth: Seems that most noobs never make it past the orientation stations for at least a few days.
[15:02]  Soap Clawtooth: A popular question in OIP is 'is this it?'
[15:03]  Arawn Spitteler heard the majority don't make it past the first few miniutes
[15:03]  Soap Clawtooth: lol!
[15:03]  Marlena Petrov: tee hee!!
[15:03]  Marlena Petrov: i was never a noob:)
[15:03]  Soap Clawtooth: So I think using the login screen as a showcase provides some good-helpful pointers of just what sort of places you could go to.
[15:04]  Soap Clawtooth: IE: The Lost Gardens of Apollo or Greenies Home rezzable would be clear favrouites.
[15:04]  Soap Clawtooth: favourites*
[15:04]  Becky Pippen: Bye all, have a *wonderful* weekend!
[15:04]  Nikhita Temin: bye bye
[15:04]  Soap Clawtooth: Cya becky :)
[15:04]  Marlena Petrov: byee becky
[15:04]  You: Heh. I hear you. The Boston Lab has been forming a Linden tour group on Mondays and visiting various sims. There are some really cool ones out there.
[15:04]  Marlena Petrov: oh, and Hi, y'all
[15:04]  You: Bye Becky!
[15:05]  Soap Clawtooth: Yeah there are!
[15:05]  You: Hi Marlena. We're kind of after-hours at Documentation Office Hours now.
[15:05]  Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[15:05]  Marlena Petrov: wel ill just sit and sip coffee...anyone want acup??
[15:05]  You: Just don't spill any on the sofa! ;-)
[15:05]  Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[15:05]  Marlena Petrov: lol!!
[15:05]  Marlena Petrov: never:)
[15:05]  Soap Clawtooth: Aric wont want to come in hear and steam clean it.
[15:05]  Soap Clawtooth: here*
[15:06]  Marlena Petrov: giggle!!
[15:06]  Arawn Spitteler: We can't leave a stain, until you enable object rez
[15:06]  Marlena Petrov: im one of the owners of 50s-60s retro dacne club...
[15:06]  Nikhita Temin: no coffee for me thanks, I don't want to discolor my teeth
[15:06]  Marlena Petrov: lmao!!!
[15:06]  Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[15:06]  Marlena Petrov purrrrrrrs
[15:06]  You: I used to know someone who made bling teeth.
[15:07]  Marlena Petrov: omg!!
[15:07]  Soap Clawtooth: oh dear god.
[15:07]  Marlena Petrov: nooooo
[15:07]  Soap Clawtooth: own up, jeremy. It was you! :P
[15:07]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Soap Clawtooth has pinged you.
[15:07]  Nikhita Temin: their smile must have really been dazzling.
[15:07]  You: Me? Ohh no, I'm not much for bling.
[15:07]  Marlena Petrov: blindely dazzling:)
[15:07]  Soap Clawtooth: Its why i liked the latest RC.
[15:08]  Marlena Petrov: oh i love RC10
[15:08]  Soap Clawtooth: MUTE = Happiness.