Mesh/Archive/2011-05-02

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Agenda:

  1. Changes coming to mesh asset format! *important info* [Nyx]
  2. Can you explain at what points meshes are tested for "validity" and whether that can account for delayed disappearance of objects several hours or days after they are rezzed without any error indications, and/or for semmingly random silent rezzing failures. [Drongle McMahon].
  3. Has account-wide throttling for changing of UUIDs on meshes been looked into such as is used in the HTTP functions? (i.e. An account in a sim cannot swap any mesh UUID more than X times in X seconds - suggested values 1 swap in 6/8/10 seconds; account-wide throttle would prevent "gaming" with multiple scripts as was the very intention of its use in HTTP). [Sebastean Steamweaver]
  4. Can you give us an update on recent progress and what your current priorities are? [Vivienne Daguerre]
  5. Is there anything in particular you need us to test? [Vivienne Daguerre]
  6. Does the SL importer require a physics shape for rigged mesh now? If no, what physics shape is given to the model if no physics shape is assigned? [Ashasekayi Ra]
  7. In viewer 2.6.6 (227422) [and the latest viewer I just downloaded], you have to assign one of the auto generated LOD as the physics shape before the upload button will show when using a rigged mesh. You can't use an external LOD at all. Is this a bug? Jira Listing: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-558? [Ashasekayi Ra]
  8. Could you recap in layman's terms when we should use prim versus convex hull physics type? [Ashasekayi Ra]
  9. Is anyone else getting a runtime error with the latest mesh viewer? "Runtime Error! R6034 An application has made an attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly. Please contact the application's support team for more information," and then "The following Media Plugin has failed: media_plugin_webkit Please re-install the plugin or contact the vendor if you continue to experience problems." [Vivienne Daguerre]
  10. Any progress on costs of any kind? [Drongle]


Transcript for Monday May 2, 2011

[10:48] Second Life Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Lindenworld%20PM/17/147/23
[10:58] Techwolf Lupindo Ime not sure how, but I survide that sim going poof.
[10:58] Techwolf Lupindo regine (queens)
[10:59] Drongle McMahon Nyx broke the sim!
[10:59] Sebastean Steamweaver Thanks again, hehe
[11:02] Sebastean Steamweaver I'm gonna stay here where it's "safe"
[11:02] Sebastean Steamweaver Yes, I think so
[11:02] Drongle McMahon Is chat working?
[11:02] Racush (racush.cheeky) uh lol
[11:02] Nyx Linden we'll give everyone a minute to get back
[11:02] davep (runitai.linden) quick, someone toss me an avatar!
[11:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Sim Crashed again..
[11:03] Nyx Linden agenda is here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh_User_Group
[11:03] Sebastean Steamweaver This seems to happen every mesh meeting I attend.
[11:04] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Hi everyone :)
[11:04] Bubbalicious (bubbalicious.chauveau) hi
[11:04] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) hiya prep
[11:04] Prep Linden yo yo folks!
[11:04] Techwolf Lupindo Are we backup and chatting again? :-)
[11:04] davep (runitai.linden) I can has avatar?
[11:04] Nyx Linden agenda is here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh_User_Group
[11:05] davep (runitai.linden) any avatar will do -- I'm all out of avatars
[11:05] Nyx Linden let's get started!
[11:05] Racush (racush.cheeky) did you get mine ;D?
[11:05] Black Catseye lets go
[11:05] Nyx Linden Charlar linden is out for a few weeks so I'll be running the usergroups in the meantime
[11:05] davep (runitai.linden) ah, yay! (Ah, spring!)
[11:05] Nyx Linden topic 1: "Changes coming to mesh asset format! *important info* [Nyx] "
[11:06] Nyx Linden so we're going to be rolling out some changes to the asset format later this week
[11:06] Nyx Linden the down side: you'll have to re-upload your meshes :(
[11:06] Drongle McMahon Aarrrgghhhh!
[11:06] Nyx Linden the up side: we *hope* this will get us to a more stable asset format
[11:06] Rusalka Writer Got back for the good part.
[11:06] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) does this meen more free $$? :P (Does this mean more free $ $? : P)
[11:06] Black Catseye not a problem
[11:07] Nyx Linden if you need more beta $ do let me know
[11:07] Rusalka Writer The reupload part. Oboy.
[11:07] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) ok
[11:07] JR4201 Kruyschek lol
[11:07] Rusalka Writer After the viewer crashed my whole entire computer!
[11:07] Drongle McMahon What are the changes?
[11:07] Nyx Linden sorry for the inconvenience - we'd rather make the change while we're still on the beta grid though :)
[11:07] Sebastean Steamweaver What changes are being made with the new format that make it preferable over current - not arguing, just pure curiosity.
[11:08] α (kopilo.hallard) does the format change include removing the mesh type from inventory?
[11:08] Racush (racush.cheeky) sorry that one had a bad neck setting lol
[11:08] davep (runitai.linden) Sebastean: mostly renaming ambiguous fields and removing deprecated fields that we thought we'd need but don't need
[11:09] Sebastean Steamweaver /me nods
[11:09] davep (runitai.linden) also, the sim will be packing in some metadata to make rezzing of mesh assets faster
[11:09] Sebastean Steamweaver Sounds good :)
[11:09] Nyx Linden so good and necessary improvements, we'd rather get them rolled out sooner rather than later
[11:09] Nyx Linden sorry for the inconvenience
[11:09] Sebastean Steamweaver That's what beta is for after all
[11:09] Drongle McMahon Are you nearly ready to make the official format public?
[11:09] Black Catseye yeah indeed
[11:09] davep (runitai.linden) yes
[11:10] davep (runitai.linden) got a doc started and everything!
[11:10] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) lol
[11:10] JR4201 Kruyschek that`s good news
[11:10] JR4201 Kruyschek ty Runitai (Runitai Company)
[11:10] Nyx Linden any more questions on the asset change? we should be rolling that out later this week
[11:10] CrystalShard Foo Can we ge a copy paste of what you just said? Missed 90% of it
[11:10] Drongle McMahon Will this be new serverv and viewer? If so, how do we synchroniser?
[11:11] Nyx Linden I'll be posting a transcript after the usergroup - check the forums
[11:11] davep (runitai.linden) yes -- we'll be rolling out to the mesh experimental channel first
[11:12] davep (runitai.linden) I forget which regions that includes --
[11:12] Rusalka Writer Where is that these days?
[11:12] davep (runitai.linden) I'll look that up
[11:12] davep (runitai.linden) but we'll post to the forums with links to installers
[11:12] Rusalka Writer Groovy.
[11:12] Nyx Linden we have three channels: experimental, stable, and legacy
[11:13] davep (runitai.linden) /me looks up what sims are on experimental.
[11:13] Nyx Linden so we can test potential regressions
[11:13] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Channels?
[11:13] Vivienne Daguerre here on the beta grid or are you talking about Agni?
[11:13] Drongle McMahon Can you detail the changes in the mesh forum, so we know what's happening?
[11:13] Nyx Linden just talking about mesh regions on the beta grid
[11:13] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Ah ok
[11:14] davep (runitai.linden) mesh experiemnetal is sandboxes 20, 21, 27, and 28
[11:14] Drongle McMahon I guess sandbox 15 is legacy as it hasn't changed for ages.
[11:14] CrystalShard Foo Is llRayCast scheduled to be released with mesh?
[11:14] davep (runitai.linden) Mesh Legacy is Sandboxes 14, 15, 7, and 8
[11:14] davep (runitai.linden) the rest are Mesh Import
[11:15] Nyx Linden any other questions or time for the next topic?
[11:15] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Import works differently in different sandboxes?
[11:15] Bart Seymour Mirror textures?
[11:15] Bart Seymour :-)
[11:15] Drongle McMahon Will we be able to have a new an old viewer format at the same time, to test the differences?
[11:16] Nyx Linden next topic: "Can you explain at what points meshes are tested for "validity" and whether that can account for delayed disappearance of objects several hours or days after they are rezzed without any error indications, and/or for semmingly random silent rezzing failures. [Drongle McMahon]. "
[11:16] davep (runitai.linden) Asha: it's just different sim code
[11:16] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Ah ok. Thanks Dave
[11:16] Drongle McMahon Oh Ok.
[11:16] Nyx Linden validity should be checked at upload time, at rez time, and if the region restarts
[11:17] Drongle McMahon Are the tests supposed to be the same? I keep getting meshes disappearing randomly.
[11:17] Nyx Linden if you have specific pieces of content that no longer work, chances are we changed something about the validity checks
[11:17] davep (runitai.linden) it could also be a rez bug, particularly on a Mesh Experimental region
[11:17] Drongle McMahon They rez ok, stay for a few days, then disappear.
[11:17] Nyx Linden we've been experimenting with some minor tweaks. hopefully it shouldn't change as frequently after the next few rounds of validity checks
[11:18] Nyx Linden entirely possible its a server bug as well, so if you have a specific repro, do let us know!
[11:18] davep (runitai.linden) you can tell if it's a Mesh Import/Legacy/Experimental region by looking at the Help->About Second Life text
[11:18] Drongle McMahon Totally unreproducible!
[11:18] Bart Seymour i have one nyx
[11:18] davep (runitai.linden) the third line below "you are at..."
[11:19] Bart Seymour I tried to tp a friend of mine, show my new mesh, everytime he entered the sim, the sim crashed
[11:19] Bart Seymour logging me and him out
[11:19] davep (runitai.linden) Drongle: are they getting auto-returned ?
[11:19] Drongle McMahon Davep, no. They aren't at 0,0,0 either.
[11:19] davep (runitai.linden) auto-return is set to about a week
[11:20] Nyx Linden odd - would love to get more detailed information on this kind of bug :)
[11:20] Drongle McMahon It;s on Mesh City ... parts of the gallery. Shouldn't be autoreturned.
[11:20] davep (runitai.linden) it's entirely possible there's som bug with region restart (it's Entirely muligt der's as bug med region restart)
[11:20] davep (runitai.linden) file a jira, include asset id's for the affected content, mention it might be releated to region restart
[11:20] Bart Seymour yeah but i think it was because his pc was not powerfull enough
[11:21] Bart Seymour the polygons that needed to rez at that particular spot was high
[11:21] Drongle McMahon I do have the vague impression it happens with restarts ... is there any way to get info about when restarts have been done?
[11:21] Bart Seymour so lots of meshes in 10m range i guess
[11:21] Drongle McMahon I will do that, but it's different parts each time.
[11:21] Nyx Linden Bart - please file a jira and let us know when it happened so we can check the server logs. Did the region crash or did the viewer crash?
[11:21] Bart Seymour ok no prob
[11:22] Bart Seymour will do :-)
[11:22] Vivienne Daguerre I think it happens when I try to cross here possibly
[11:22] Nyx Linden anything else on validity checks?
[11:22] davep (runitai.linden) Mesh City has been running for 3 days
[11:22] davep (runitai.linden) Mesh city 2 for 3 days
[11:23] davep (runitai.linden) Mesh cityh 3 for 1d 9h 45m
[11:23] davep (runitai.linden) mesh city 4 for 3d 0h 16,
[11:23] Nyx Linden Drongle - would love to get more detailed info. Let us know how we can help
[11:24] α (kopilo.hallard) sorry, have to call it a night, falling asleep at the keyboard (3.53am)
[11:24] α (kopilo.hallard) night all
[11:24] Rusalka Writer Randomly disappearing mesh would be very bad.
[11:24] davep (runitai.linden) probably shoudln't pigeon hole on this here - file a jira with relevant info (time content disappeared, asset ids)
[11:24] davep (runitai.linden) gotta move on
[11:24] Nyx Linden next topic: "Has account-wide throttling for changing of UUIDs on meshes been looked into such as is used in the HTTP functions? (i.e. An account in a sim cannot swap any mesh UUID more than X times in X seconds - suggested values 1 swap in 6/8/10 seconds; account-wide throttle would prevent "gaming" with multiple scripts as was the very intention of its use in HTTP). [Sebastean Steamweaver] "
[11:25] davep (runitai.linden) UUID flipping for meshes isn't a throttling issue, it's an architectural issue
[11:25] davep (runitai.linden) it just doesn't work
[11:25] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Did the SIM crash?
[11:25] Techwolf Lupindo did the regine crashed?
[11:25] Sebastean Steamweaver I thought that sim was safe.
[11:25] Sebastean Steamweaver Yes
[11:25] Vivienne Daguerre Sorry folks, if I try to cross to where the seats are, crasshes happen
[11:26] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Oi (Hi)
[11:26] Vivienne Daguerre don't know why, I am wearing 0 scripts I think
[11:26] Nyx Linden will have to pass the server guys some log files :)
[11:26] Vivienne Daguerre I will stand still
[11:26] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I sent a log.
[11:26] Second Life There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
[11:26] Second Life No room to sit here, try another spot.
[11:27] Sebastean Steamweaver Yes
[11:27] Nyx Linden any further questions on topic 3?
[11:27] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Misssed it
[11:27] Nyx Linden "Has account-wide throttling for changing of UUIDs on meshes been looked into such as is used in the HTTP functions? (i.e. An account in a sim cannot swap any mesh UUID more than X times in X seconds - suggested values 1 swap in 6/8/10 seconds; account-wide throttle would prevent "gaming" with multiple scripts as was the very intention of its use in HTTP). [Sebastean Steamweaver] "
[11:27] davep (runitai.linden) UUID flipping of mesh assets is an architectural issue, not a throttling issue
[11:28] davep (runitai.linden) there's no way for the sim to change the UUID of a mesh asset after the object has been rezzed
[11:28] davep (runitai.linden) (no way for it to change the mesh asset an object references)
[11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver Hmm
[11:28] davep (runitai.linden) this used to "work" but would cause many sim crashes and stalls
[11:29] Rusalka Writer I think we have sufficient crashes as it is.
[11:29] Techwolf Lupindo Hmm...sound like coding to make sure mesh texture UUID flipping would never work.
[11:30] Techwolf Lupindo Oh dear...I think I got logged out again...
[11:30] Sebastean Steamweaver I wouldn't really go that far. I think with a reasonable throttling, they'd be willing enough to let it work. I don't think they'd specifically code against it.
[11:30] Bart Seymour Mmmm in my opinion is that the viewer should only crash, not the sim
[11:30] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) your still here tech „ã°
[11:30] davep (runitai.linden) nothing should crash, ever
[11:30] Bart Seymour lol true
[11:30] Rusalka Writer *snort*
[11:31] davep (runitai.linden) anyway -- the mesh rez pipeline was written to solve the problem of loading meshes causing frame stalls on the sim
[11:31] Z (zslash.cyberstar) too bad any software can crash, its computers, we have to live with it ^^
[11:31] davep (runitai.linden) mesh introduced a new requirement on the sim that the viewer takes for granted -- the ability to asynchronously load assets associated with objects after the objects have been rezzed
[11:31] Rusalka Writer Heck, I crashe a Mac today. All things are possible.
[11:32] davep (runitai.linden) for the sim, this is much more problematic than anticipated -- especially with the presence of a running havok simulation
[11:32] davep (runitai.linden) the techniques we use for volumes just didn't work for meshes -- the result was leveraging a new threaded-rez pipeline to load meshes in a background thread before rezzing the associated object
[11:33] davep (runitai.linden) a side effect of that decision is that objects can never change their mesh asset id
[11:33] Z (zslash.cyberstar) i say forget the uuid flip talk and give us static animations
[11:33] Racush (racush.cheeky) well some new alternative
[11:34] JR4201 Kruyschek can change UUID isn`t bad?
[11:34] Sebastean Steamweaver Well, I've never been promoting UUID flip for animations really. There are a lot of other uses. As for the pipeline, it's disappointing that it can't change, but I appreciate the explanation and understand.
[11:34] Rusalka Writer Will people be precluded from attempting something disastrous?
[11:35] Nyx Linden re animations: one step at a time. I'd rather release mesh earlier without animations and then add it later :)
[11:35] JR4201 Kruyschek good question :)~
[11:35] Nyx Linden could you clarify Rusaika?
[11:35] Drongle McMahon Agreed, Nyx.
[11:35] davep (runitai.linden) disastrous can mean so many things...
[11:35] F L I P (flip.idlemind) But you're not ruling out mesh animations?
[11:35] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) They've already removed the ability to swap mesh UUIDs.
[11:35] Rusalka Writer Well, if there's a way to damage the operations of a sim, will it be made illegal or un-doable or something?
[11:35] Nyx Linden ruling it out for the initial release, yes. For the future - it would be good to have
[11:36] Rusalka Writer Having crashed a few sims in my day....
[11:36] davep (runitai.linden) Resulka: yes
[11:36] Rusalka Writer Good deal.
[11:36] Bart Seymour I have maybe one other question, what if people upload a mesh that is for example garbled, many polygons running through each other can that crash a sim and viewer?
[11:36] Z (zslash.cyberstar) nyx not only good but could be the most powerful thing ever in sl
[11:36] Nyx Linden it would be very powerful yes :)
[11:36] Z (zslash.cyberstar) :)
[11:36] davep (runitai.linden) Bart: that's what the validator is for
[11:37] Bloodsong Termagant the future possibility of stand-alone boned meshes was discussed at last week's meeting.
[11:37] davep (runitai.linden) it should, if working properly, reject such meshes from ever reaching the asset server
[11:37] Nyx Linden running low on time, can we move on?
[11:37] Bart Seymour ok :-) yeah im fairly new to all this
[11:37] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) yes please
[11:37] Bart Seymour np i shutup :-p (and shutup example:-p)
[11:37] Nyx Linden next topic: "Can you give us an update on recent progress and what your current priorities are? [Vivienne Daguerre] "
[11:37] Nyx Linden recently - we're merging!
[11:37] Rusalka Writer Oy.
[11:37] Z (zslash.cyberstar) fix bugs that was fixed before :P
[11:37] Nyx Linden trying to get back to non-merge related work soooon
[11:38] davep (runitai.linden) we've got a bug backlog of 400 issues
[11:38] F L I P (flip.idlemind) /me thinks out loud: Sims overrun with zombies sound like a cool idea, but prim movements just don't do it...animated zombie meshes could make for a really nice haunted house
[11:38] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) o.O (oO)
[11:38] F L I P (flip.idlemind) Sorry, what?
[11:38] Nyx Linden so trying to get back to bug hunting as well as some further feature work
[11:39] Drongle McMahon Featurev work?
[11:39] Z (zslash.cyberstar) i think they mean mesh cost calculations xD
[11:39] Nyx Linden for example: having the sim tell you how much it will cost to upload a mesh :)
[11:39] Drongle McMahon I though we had all the features.
[11:39] Rusalka Writer ARC? (CRA?)
[11:39] Drongle McMahon Oh that.
[11:39] Nyx Linden before you upload it
[11:39] Rusalka Writer Pony?
[11:40] Drongle McMahon It could just say "Too much"
[11:40] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) heh
[11:40] Sebastean Steamweaver Oh that reminds me. Has the My Little Pony internet phenomenon infected Mesh yet? :P
[11:40] Nyx Linden all of the major pieces are there, but how we count prims and how we upload them could use some....polishing
[11:40] Drongle McMahon or "If you have to ask, you can't afford it".
[11:40] Rusalka Writer Intellectual Property Rights?
[11:41] davep (runitai.linden) The main "features" left for mesh are mostly centered around accounting (streaming cost, physics cost) and monetization (how much it costs in L$ to upload a mesh)
[11:41] Nyx Linden not as shiny as the features we have now, but necessary for us to actually go to the main grid :)
[11:42] Bart Seymour In my opinion you should not ask too much, mesh is really trial and error
[11:42] JR4201 Kruyschek in my opinion it should be the same as sculpties according to vertices count
[11:42] Nyx Linden you will always be allowed to upload trial meshes to the beta grid
[11:42] Z (zslash.cyberstar) if mesh fails secondlife will be dead in no time guaranteed
[11:43] Nyx Linden so that's what we're working on. Any objections to going to the next topic?
[11:43] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Nope
[11:43] Bart Seymour nope, shoot!
[11:43] Nyx Linden next topic: "Does the SL importer require a physics shape for rigged mesh now? If no, what physics shape is given to the model if no physics shape is assigned? [Ashasekayi Ra] "
[11:43] Sebastean Steamweaver Well it isn't dead yet, and it doesn't have mesh, but yeah. I think SL needs mesh to develop further.
[11:43] Z (zslash.cyberstar) true seb
[11:43] Z (zslash.cyberstar) wer in 2011... (who in 2011 ...)
[11:43] Bart Seymour In my opinion you are doing a great job, if this really runs smoothly, it can potentially overrule all MMO's in the world
[11:44] Nyx Linden I believe we need a single convex hull representation no matter what type of mesh it is
[11:44] Z (zslash.cyberstar) yes bart, if its odne right.
[11:44] Z (zslash.cyberstar) done*
[11:44] Nyx Linden but more complex physics representations aren't required.
[11:44] davep (runitai.linden) you can see the physics rep used in the "physics shape" display if you drop the object on the ground
[11:44] davep (runitai.linden) no physics rep is used while attached
[11:44] JR4201 Kruyschek simple and nice solution that convex hull
[11:45] Nyx Linden we require it because you should always be able to drop something you have attached to you - so we need at least a simple convex hull rep.
[11:45] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) But, you do have to set one in the physics tab for a rigged mesh?
[11:45] Drongle McMahon Convex hull can still be expensive if it ha a lot of points.
[11:45] Nyx Linden we generate the single convex hull automagically
[11:45] Bart Seymour I have one question, is Linden labs working togheter with other companies to provide better tools to build Collada files?
[11:45] Nyx Linden the physics tab is for determining the more complex "prim" physics shape
[11:46] Ashiri Sands We only need the root prim/mesh to have a physics shape?
[11:46] davep (runitai.linden) Bart: please add questions to the agenda
[11:46] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) It's letting you upload one without setting one in the physics tab now though.
[11:46] davep (runitai.linden) http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh_User_Group
[11:46] Bart Seymour ok
[11:46] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) *It isn't
[11:46] Nyx Linden all meshes need to have a physics shape in the asset itself (at least a single convex hull)
[11:46] Nyx Linden however, you can disable the physicality of the prim if its in a linkset
[11:47] Drongle McMahon I think the question is whether the deafult convex hull is calculated automatically if no shape is specified?
[11:47] davep (runitai.linden) bottom line, if the "Upload" button on the importer isn't greyed out, the mesh *should* successfully upload
[11:47] davep (runitai.linden) any necessary data that you didn't explicitly specify should be filled in automatically
[11:47] Rusalka Writer Anybody have a link to the release candidates?
[11:47] Nyx Linden Drongle: the single convex hull is generated no matter what you do.
[11:47] Nyx Linden automagically
[11:47] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) It is greyed out though.
[11:47] Drongle McMahon I thought so.
[11:48] Bart Seymour nope i created a mesh, everytime i load it, my viewer crashes :-p
[11:48] Rusalka Writer I enjoyed that issue.
[11:48] davep (runitai.linden) Bart: sweet, please file a jira and attach the .dae file
[11:48] Bart Seymour hehe ok
[11:48] Bart Seymour np (eg)
[11:48] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) /me hasn't heard 'automagically' in a year or two, and is glad to hear it again
[11:48] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lol
[11:48] Nyx Linden Asha - could you send us a description of what you do while uploading that causes the upload button to be disabled?
[11:49] davep (runitai.linden) /me gets all hand wavy.
[11:49] Sebastean Steamweaver Where science, computers, and fantasy combine... you get particle effects.
[11:49] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) I made a jira already. It's in the next question.
[11:49] Nyx Linden excellent! so next topic! :D
[11:49] Nyx Linden "In viewer 2.6.6 (227422) [and the latest viewer I just downloaded], you have to assign one of the auto generated LOD as the physics shape before the upload button will show when using a rigged mesh. You can't use an external LOD at all. Is this a bug? Jira Listing: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-558? [Ashasekayi Ra] "
[11:50] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Maybe I'm having the problem because I do my uploading on Sandbox 15?
[11:50] Nyx Linden yeah, that might be a bug - we're going to look into it :)
[11:50] davep (runitai.linden) Asha: quite possible
[11:50] Nyx Linden thanks for filing the jira!
[11:50] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) I'll try a different SIM next time then.
[11:50] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) You're welcome.
[11:50] Nyx Linden I'll make sure we take a look at that one.
[11:51] Drongle McMahon Does the sim intervene before you press the upload button??
[11:51] davep (runitai.linden) Drongle: no
[11:51] Nyx Linden no, but if the asset your viewer sends up isn't valid it won't complete the upload.
[11:51] davep (runitai.linden) it's awfully passive aggressive about it
[11:51] Ashiri Sands o.O (oO)
[11:51] Nyx Linden we're working on making that case as smooth as possible, so still working on that :)
[11:52] Drongle McMahon We need sim valium.
[11:52] Bart Seymour /me two thumbs up
[11:52] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lol
[11:52] Nyx Linden can we move on? still have several topics left
[11:52] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) sure thing
[11:52] Nyx Linden next topic: "Could you recap in layman's terms when we should use prim versus convex hull physics type? [Ashasekayi Ra] "
[11:52] davep (runitai.linden) layman's terms are tricky
[11:53] Nyx Linden we're going to be looking at the terms we use and trying to get some better verbage in there before release.
[11:53] Rusalka Writer Oh, good.
[11:53] davep (runitai.linden) the gist of it is using "prim" as the physics shape type will use the convex decomposition OR physics shape mesh if no decomposition is available
[11:53] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) You use prim when you set a specific prom shape in the importer..yes?
[11:53] davep (runitai.linden) using "convex hull" will always use the single convex hull
[11:54] Nyx Linden so "convex hull" is a very simple representation, and "prim" is the more complex representation, depending on which one you provided
[11:54] davep (runitai.linden) you can see the result by using develop->render metadata->physics shapes
[11:54] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) And a convex hull is the one you can't put an opening in for say a door for example?
[11:54] Z (zslash.cyberstar) well that gives blackscreen for me
[11:54] Nyx Linden correct
[11:55] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Z... you have to enable shadows then relog for it to work.
[11:55] davep (runitai.linden) wow
[11:55] davep (runitai.linden) that sucks
[11:55] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Ok. Thanks Nyx and Dave. I get the gist of it.
[11:55] Z (zslash.cyberstar) ah ye i think i read about that bug
[11:55] Rusalka Writer 401.
[11:55] Drongle McMahon I sometimes make a physics shape simpler than the default convex hull, as the latter can be expensive.
[11:55] Nyx Linden fair enough :)
[11:56] davep (runitai.linden) aye
[11:56] davep (runitai.linden) auto generated is almost always worse than hand tuned
[11:56] Nyx Linden does that clarify things?
[11:56] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Bringing in an external mesh for physics then simplifying it is good yes?
[11:56] davep (runitai.linden) yes
[11:57] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Ok, I'm good to go then.
[11:57] Nyx Linden next topic: "Is anyone else getting a runtime error with the latest mesh viewer? "Runtime Error! R6034 An application has made an attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly. Please contact the application's support team for more information," and then "The following Media Plugin has failed: media_plugin_webkit Please re-install the plugin or contact the vendor if you continue to experience problems." [Vivienne Daguerre] "
[11:57] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) not me
[11:57] Z (zslash.cyberstar) not me
[11:57] Bart Seymour nope
[11:57] Nyx Linden what OS? windows 7?
[11:57] Vivienne Daguerre Windows 7
[11:57] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) <- Win 7 64bit
[11:57] Nyx Linden probably a side effect of the VS2010 changeover
[11:57] Bart Seymour my pc: 12 core 3.6 ghz, dual GTX480 2GB Win7 64bit
[11:57] Z (zslash.cyberstar) <- win7 64 bit
[11:57] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) uninstall and reinstall the viwewer
[11:57] Vivienne Daguerre I was getting repeated messages like that until I turned off auto play of media in pref
[11:58] F L I P (flip.idlemind) Better question: Is there really still a "mesh viewer"? Thought it would all be one viewer by now
[11:58] Vivienne Daguerre Windows 7 64 bit
[11:58] Nyx Linden that probably reproduces on our latest main viewer betas as well
[11:58] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Ah, I never have media on.
[11:58] Nyx Linden we have some lindens working on fixing that asap
[11:58] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) mesh hasn't been merged intot he main viewer yet, flip
[11:58] Drongle McMahon Oh no. That webkit one sounds like the old one whre you had to set slplugin to win95 compatability mode.
[11:59] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) webkit is the web browser, which search uses, not media
[11:59] Vivienne Daguerre I will try unstalling it and reinstalling
[11:59] Vivienne Daguerre it started with the build of Saturday
[12:00] Nyx Linden try an older version for now, we'll try to get it fixed when we can
[12:00] Vivienne Daguerre I downloaded today's build, and the problem is still there
[12:00] Vivienne Daguerre ok, just wanted to be sure you are aware of it
[12:00] Vivienne Daguerre but odd that no-one else is seeing it
[12:00] Nyx Linden or remove any --set-language options in your shortcuts
[12:00] Vivienne Daguerre I use default language
[12:00] Ranya Palmer im still on the last build
[12:00] Vivienne Daguerre just left it at that
[12:01] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) vivienne do you windows update ever? there might be some stuff you don't have
[12:01] Bart Seymour already did, hate this viewer 2 layout enough
[12:01] Bart Seymour :-p
[12:01] Nyx Linden we're out of time, last topic: "Any progress on costs of any kind? [Drongle] "
[12:01] Drongle McMahon You can forget my last question, Nyx, as you already dealt with costs.
[12:01] Vivienne Daguerre my computer is set to automatically do windows updates every night
[12:01] Nyx Linden we're going to be working on this soon I hope :)
[12:01] Nyx Linden we'll let you guys know!
[12:01] Rusalka Writer Release candidate build list is where now?
[12:02] Bart Seymour Thank you Nyx, i really appreciate all the work the Lindens are doing.
[12:02] Nyx Linden thanks everyone for coming!
[12:02] Prep Linden later folks
[12:02] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) should be http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/latest.html no?
[12:02] Nyx Linden we have another meeting to run off to
[12:02] Drongle McMahon Yes. Good luck with finishing the merge stuff.
[12:02] Nyx Linden I'll post a transcript later today
[12:02] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Thanks Lindens
[12:02] Bart Seymour ok
[12:02] Bart Seymour thanks
[12:02] Rusalka Writer Mahalo!
[12:02] Sebastean Steamweaver Thank you for the office hours
[12:02] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith) tc „ã°
[12:02] Ranya Palmer thank you for all your hard work and still having time to see us :)
[12:02] davep (runitai.linden) thanks guys
[12:02] Rusalka Writer Good meeting today.
[12:03] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) thanks lindens
[12:03] JR4201 Kruyschek i don`t understand a lot of what is said here but i liked this meeting, gave me a good feeling :)
[12:03] Ashiri Sands tc&thx (& thx tc)