Mesh/Archive/2011-10-03

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Agenda

  1. SH-2374 (Rigged Mesh Deformer) has been deferred from Sprint 28 to "Someday/Maybe". Could you give us the overall priority/status of making attached mesh conform to all avatar appearance sliders? If making attachments fit is being addressed some other way, please point us to where [DanielRavenNest Noe]
  2. Re. SH-2374, the idea of a privately funded solution (i.e. kickstarter) has been suggested and is being considered. If such a thing were to move forward, would you be willing to work with such a project to expedite the process, through the snowstorm devs or other avenue, and if so, to what extent? (Maxwell Graf)
  3. CTS transition - Fate of CTS jiras. I saw this messgae on one of my CTS jiras "Please enter your Mesh related bug in project "1. Second Life Viewer - VWR" and set the Component to "Mesh". Thank you!". Does this mean they will be eliminated unless we re-enter them? Is there a way of doing this that will preserver comments etc? (Drongle McMahon)
  4. I noticed that SH-2435 was marked resolved although the problem remains (albeit not the SL uploader's fault). In another jira, it was mentioned that an extra option could be added to the the SL uploader to counter the Blender 2.5x rotation issue for joint offsets. Is this still being considered? [Ashasekayi Ra]
  5. The date of daily build is not correct. It shows "10/04/2011 8:26:41 (1317684401)". It is the date of future. [Yuzuru Jewell]

Meeting Notes

Transcript for Monday October 3, 2011

[12:01] Nebadon Izumi is it me or is the sim next door missing?
[12:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can update my tools by your advice. Thank you.
[12:01] eithne Blaylock hi
[12:01] Maxwell Graf its down, nebs
[12:01] Nal (nalates.urriah) its missing
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi k
[12:01] Maxwell Graf been down for days
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi oh heh
[12:01] Charlar Linden ackk
[12:01] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Asha waves to Eithne, El and Rusalka
[12:01] Charlar Linden one of our submarines, i mean sims, is missing
[12:01] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[12:01] Graham Dartmouth think ele is still afk
[12:03] Eleanora Newell back, hi all
[12:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Hello. Vir Linden.
[12:03] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) wb
[12:03] Rusalka Writer Dang.
[12:04] Vir Linden Hi all.
[12:04] Charlar Linden ok let's get started folks
[12:04] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Agenda is not cleaed.
[12:04] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) The questions above Daniel's are from last week btw.
[12:04] Charlar Linden i'm sorry - hold on
[12:05] davep (runitai.linden) http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:05] davep (runitai.linden) 1-5 are from last week
[12:05] Charlar Linden i'm sorry - hold on#1 SH-2374 (Rigged Mesh Deformer) has been deferred from Sprint 28 to "Someday/Maybe". Could you give us the overall priority/status of making attached mesh conform to all avatar appearance sliders? If making attachments fit is being addressed some other way, please point us to where [DanielRavenNest Noe]
[12:05] Charlar Linden (using new numbering)
[12:06] Maxwell Graf lol
[12:06] Jusden Jonstone lol
[12:06] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lmao
[12:06] Eleanora Newell :)
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi heheh
[12:06] Graham Dartmouth wtg Max
[12:06] Jusden Jonstone Jusden Jonstone taps toes
[12:08] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Asha ponders the silent void. o.o
[12:08] Charlar Linden we're looking into options on this, more investigation. I'm going to add some notes to SH-2374 to that effect. We know this is something important to people. We'll have an update in the next couple weeks.
[12:08] Charlar Linden Additionally we may be reaching out to some of you individually for feedback.
[12:09] Maxwell Graf Excellent. That clears things up a bit.
[12:09] Eleanora Newell That would be appreciated, thank you.
[12:09] Charlar Linden the 'someday/maybe' title for the backlog it got moved to is not bad, like it might imply
[12:09] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Thanks. That sounds more promising than just the "maybe".
[12:10] Charlar Linden it just means we don't have it scheduled currently.
[12:10] Charlar Linden We do also have some internal tasks to research, which aren't visible. Sorry for the confusion around that.
[12:10] Graham Dartmouth understood, but I dont think its an issue that is going to go away
[12:10] Charlar Linden Next?
[12:10] Maxwell Graf consider also that the almost 800 who voted on it are only a % of those who are actually concerned and affected by this.
[12:10] Vir Linden It's something we would like to do. Currently there are many non-mesh priorities that also require development resources, so it's always a balancing act.
[12:10] Charlar Linden right Graham, which is one reason we're still looking at it.
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi ok well I think perhaps in the future, when changing status of that nature
[12:11] Graham Dartmouth appreciate your answer :0
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi a Linden should make some comments explaining their action
[12:11] Charlar Linden as I said, i'm goign to be updating that jira later
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi you could avoid pitchfork and torch scenarios
[12:11] Vir Linden The "fix version" field is intended for internal use by sprint teams.
[12:11] Maxwell Graf It would help us a lot. :)
[12:11] Vir Linden It really isn't meaningful for anyone else.
[12:12] Maxwell Graf it is when there are 800 people watching it for updates.
[12:12] Nal (nalates.urriah) yeah, save us lugging the tar and featuers to the meetings.
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi lol
[12:12] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) I'm very glad to hear that you guys are still exploring it. I mean it is the most interesting part of mesh for me and some other creators.
[12:12] Jusden Jonstone and then its changed without any explaination whatsoever....i think we all have seen JIRA's relegated to similar descriptions and sit idle with no action for years
[12:13] Graham Dartmouth from what I understand from many students, it is a deal breaker for adopting mesh
[12:13] Maxwell Graf you crazy guys, you had us going there for a minute, yuk yuk yuk.
[12:13] Rusalka Writer I thought Blender was the deal breaker.
[12:13] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Asha nods. "I've heard that too Graham."
[12:13] Eleanora Newell for many it is the defining line as to whether they will accept mesh clothing or not
[12:13] lonetorus Habilis runitai, do you have any comments on parametric deformers and layer systems? (no you dont know when) but perhaps some technical thoughts and or possibilities?
[12:14] Maxwell Graf ....... ....... .......
[12:14] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Asha snorts
[12:14] davep (runitai.linden) I have no comment -- focused on GL compatibility issues, myself
[12:15] lonetorus Habilis noone from the linden side brave enough to give it some thought? XD
[12:15] Charlar Linden we should move on
[12:15] Maxwell Graf lol
[12:16] Nyx Linden believe us, we've been thinking about it and discussing it. Not having the resources to implement it doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed
[12:16] lonetorus Habilis and im not even asking you nyx, you always gave snake answers ;)
[12:16] Graham Dartmouth nyx, with respect, the community are more concerned with agtions than discussions
[12:16] Maxwell Graf If you look and listen closely, you can almost hear the wheels of the big machine turning...
[12:17] Rusalka Writer Can we do agenda ahead of conspiracy?
[12:17] Charlar Linden #2 Re. SH-2374, the idea of a privately funded solution (i.e. kickstarter) has been suggested and is being considered. If such a thing were to move forward, would you be willing to work with such a project to expedite the process, through the snowstorm devs or other avenue, and if so, to what extent? (Maxwell Graf)
[12:17] Charlar Linden this one seems more like a discussion between y'all
[12:18] Maxwell Graf actually, its aimed directly at yall.
[12:18] Charlar Linden oops, correct
[12:18] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) As in a discussion for 3rd party viewer devs?
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi it's comin right for us
[12:19] Maxwell Graf in other words, if it were to be funded privately, how much help, if any, could we get from you on this?
[12:19] Maxwell Graf TPV devs or no
[12:19] Maxwell Graf just from the LL side.
[12:19] Charlar Linden We're discussing...
[12:20] Jusden Jonstone if something were developed outside and it was functional is something you can at least commit that you would consider adopting and pushing upstream into linden development?
[12:22] Maxwell Graf the option of sending you liquor, hookers and chocolate is still on the table.
[12:22] Graham Dartmouth privately funded, of course
[12:22] Maxwell Graf aye
[12:22] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lol
[12:23] Nal (nalates.urriah) Nobobdy is getting any of my chololate.
[12:23] Vir Linden We can discuss external dev work more when we have a chance to follow up. Still looking at our technical options.
[12:23] eithne Blaylock or my Liquor
[12:23] Vir Linden We will plan to revisit in 2 weeks.
[12:23] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) i know the project im working on has a major techinical hold up @ the monent
[12:23] Nal (nalates.urriah) u mean revisit here, or among yourselves?
[12:24] Vir Linden Discuss here in 2 weeks.
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi sounds fair
[12:24] Prep Linden One of the options is that we are looking into supporting rigging to collision volumes, but we need some sample content that has a rigged mesh that is weighted to the avatar collision volumes. This might scale to match the morph distortions...but we need some samples. (send them to prep@lindenlab.com)
[12:24] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Oh great
[12:24] Nal (nalates.urriah) fair enough Thx
[12:24] Charlar Linden ok. next item:
[12:24] Charlar Linden #3 CTS transition - Fate of CTS jiras. I saw this messgae on one of my CTS jiras "Please enter your Mesh related bug in project "1. Second Life Viewer - VWR" and set the Component to "Mesh". Thank you!". Does this mean they will be eliminated unless we re-enter them? Is there a way of doing this that will preserver comments etc? (Drongle McMahon)
[12:24] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Rigged to the collision volume?
[12:24] Prep Linden asha: yes
[12:25] Maxwell Graf if the offset of the deformation is only .001 away from the initial mesh physics of the avatar, why is that even part of the solution?
[12:25] Maxwell Graf it seems like thats being overly complicated.
[12:25] Vir Linden We are not deleting content, but we are phasing out CTS for new issues.
[12:26] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) wouldn't it be better to have the new av mesh physic match even if it is only so little off?
[12:26] Drongle McMahon Vir ... so should we re-enter them in VWR if we want you to keep them in mind?
[12:27] Vir Linden Do not need to reenter existing bugs
[12:27] Drongle McMahon ok
[12:27] Vir Linden We triage these things weekly
[12:27] Charlar Linden Next
[12:27] Charlar Linden #4 I noticed that SH-2435 was marked resolved although the problem remains (albeit not the SL uploader's fault). In another jira, it was mentioned that an extra option could be added to the the SL uploader to counter the Blender 2.5x rotation issue for joint offsets. Is this still being considered? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:29] Prep Linden Yes, but we are giving the Blender fellows a chance to resolve it. If it doesn't seem like they are, we'll up the priority in that jira.
[12:29] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Alrighty then. Thanks.
[12:29] Charlar Linden ok, then, next?
[12:30] Rusalka Writer Pony.
[12:30] Charlar Linden #5 The date of daily build is not correct. It shows "10/04/2011 8:26:41 (1317684401)". It is the date of future. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:30] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/rev/242181/index.html
[12:30] Nyx Linden you can reproduce bugs we haven't even written yet!
[12:30] Charlar Linden getting builds from the future is a Feature!
[12:31] Eleanora Newell lol
[12:31] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I want to know correct build date.
[12:31] Rusalka Writer Now they can take tomorrow off.
[12:31] davep (runitai.linden) the build farm is trying to use the Scotty method, but it doesn't quite get it
[12:31] Imaze Rhiano awww... breaking causality laws again? ebil... ebill....
[12:31] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Please show it by SLT.
[12:32] Drongle McMahon It's in New Zealand
[12:32] davep (runitai.linden) in all seriousness, though, yeah, that's odd
[12:32] davep (runitai.linden) passing that along to the build farm folks now
[12:33] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) it looks like the build farm picked up GMT instead of the local time
[12:33] Drongle McMahon Wherte is the international dateline in SL?
[12:33] Rusalka Writer To the right.
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi maybe its a UTC time?
[12:33] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't check the viewer was updated.
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi vs PDT
[12:34] Drongle McMahon I always thought it was converted to local time of the person looking at it.
[12:34] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) gmc and utc are similar as they are based @ the same reference line
[12:34] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Here is 4:34AM
[12:34] Rusalka Writer Yeey.
[12:34] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) ouch
[12:34] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) im three hours ahead of SLT my self
[12:35] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) But it shows 8:26AM..
[12:35] Rusalka Writer Three hours behind here.
[12:35] Charlar Linden That's the end of the agenda, folks
[12:35] Rusalka Writer Oh, yeah.
[12:35] Rusalka Writer Be back next week for more invisible ponies!
[12:36] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Yuzura if it built @ say 0026 SLT then utc/gmt would be 0826
[12:36] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) you guys asked for example content rigged to avatar collision volumes. Where would we get the avatar with collision volumes intact?
[12:36] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) *You
[12:36] Eleanora Newell thank you for addressing that first issue with us, lindens
[12:37] Eleanora Newell yeah, asha's question, how do we do that?
[12:37] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you wolfpup. I found it was a bug of time translation..
[12:37] Nyx Linden local to your machine?
[12:39] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) not
[12:40] Nyx Linden so we still need to look into the issue, correct yuzuru?
[12:40] Prep Linden Asha: you might to have create them and name them ... hold checking the source for the names...
[12:41] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Prep could the default be pulled from the viewr itself?
[12:41] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) What source?
[12:41] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you. Nyx.
[12:42] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Source as in the code for the mesh viewer?
[12:43] Prep Linden Asha: we're checking into this atm...
[12:43] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Alright.
[12:46] Prep Linden Asha: So it looks like you'll need to create the collision volumes and name them from the avatar_skeleton.xml accordingly. So the pevlsi collision volume would be named PELVIS.
[12:46] Prep Linden I'll post some notes and a request in the forums.
[12:46] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Thanks Prep, That would be helpful.
[12:47] Charlar Linden I have a general request: If you are a creator who has a *significant* interest in pathfinding (dynamic object movement thru the world) and would be willing to commit some time, please send me an email (charlar@lindenlab.com).
[12:47] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Nyx could i get a few minutes of your time after the meeting
[12:48] Charlar Linden i think we're pretty much done here, folks....
[12:49] Eleanora Newell thanks, lindens
[12:49] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Thanks for the meeting.
[12:49] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[12:49] Graham Dartmouth °͜°
[12:49] Graham Dartmouth tune in next week same time
[12:49] Eleanora Newell bye, everyone
[12:49] eithne Blaylock bye
[12:49] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Bye El
[12:49] Rain Edring bye
[12:50] Aki (aki.shichiroji) Thanks for the meeting. Passing your request on to Neobokrug Elytis, Charlar. I believe he was working something related
[12:50] Charlar Linden i'm calling it - the usergroup meeting is done, thanks!
[12:50] Charlar Linden see you next week
[12:50] Charlar Linden thanks Aki
[12:50] Vir Linden bye all
[12:50] davep (runitai.linden) thanks folks
[12:50] Prep Linden bye folks!
[12:50] Graham Dartmouth thank you lindens
[12:50] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) See you next week!
[12:50] Nal (nalates.urriah) Thx akk