Mesh/Archive/2012-08-13
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Agenda
- Will there be any way to offset and resize the collision volumes with a rigged mesh? Tiberious Neruda
- Is there any news to report on adding additional bones? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29349 Geenz Spad
Meeting Notes
Attendees List
Transcript for Monday August 13, 2012
[12:03] | Nyx Linden | greetings all! |
[12:03] | Gramma Fiddlesticks | . |
[12:03] | Rusalka Writer | Only tiny amounts of broken content. |
[12:03] | Rusalka Writer | Aloha! |
[12:03] | Motor Loon | ey Nyx |
[12:03] | Tiberious Neruda | ...do I sense a newbie Linden? |
[12:03] | Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) | Hello Nyx. |
[12:03] | Al Blindside | Hey hey Nyx |
[12:03] | Hoz Linden | Hi, all |
[12:03] | Rusalka Writer | We'll be gentle. |
[12:03] | Kazumi (wickedwanda.blackheart) | Hi Hoz |
[12:03] | Rusalka Writer | No we won't. |
[12:04] | Nyx Linden | agenda is here, we're light on topics, so feel free to add more: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group |
[12:04] | Tiberious Neruda | ...you're in with the sharks now... :>3 |
[12:04] | Hoz Linden | I'd be disappointed if I got special consideration. |
[12:04] | Tiberious Neruda | err >:3 |
[12:04] | Al Blindside | Lovely to see Lindens here as ever - you guys get a bad press for not *caring* - but hells - here you be |
[12:04] | Rusalka Writer | It's been months since there was actual violence. |
[12:04] | Al Blindside | lordy |
[12:04] | Rusalka Writer | Hoz must be the pony guy. |
[12:05] | Nyx Linden | shall we get started? |
[12:05] | Motor Loon | yeah lets rock |
[12:06] | Tiberious Neruda | so, Hoz... what exactly do you do? |
[12:06] | Al Blindside | woot |
[12:06] | Nyx Linden | first topic: "Will there be any way to offset and resize the collision volumes with a rigged mesh? Tiberious Neruda" |
[12:06] | inconnu (ynysmore) | is this a private meeting? |
[12:06] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | sure |
[12:06] | Tiberious Neruda | okay... bit of background to this question |
[12:06] | Nyx Linden | hello inconnu - this is a public usergroup, I'll send you a link to the agenda, feel free to stick around |
[12:06] | Tiberious Neruda | whenever you use a mesh with offset joints, the collision skeleton remains unchanged |
[12:07] | Tiberious Neruda | and since you need to use the 'default shape' for accurate offsetting, you end up with collision bones either too small or too large, depending on the avatar size |
[12:07] | Tiberious Neruda | this in turn affects how the camea focuses on an avatar |
[12:09] | Tiberious Neruda | and in extreme cases, can even cause more strangeness like focusing on something behind a mesh, seeming to aim'through' it |
[12:09] | Rusalka Writer | Focusing on mesh has been a problem anyway. |
[12:09] | Rusalka Writer | The camera seems to reflect off it to somewhere else. |
[12:09] | Tiberious Neruda | Rusalka, that has to do with those collision skeleton volumes |
[12:09] | Rusalka Writer | Ah. |
[12:10] | Rusalka Writer | Good question, then. It gets frustrating. |
[12:10] | Tiberious Neruda | apparently, the client seems to assume some basic things about where the collision volumes are, which is fine if you're not using a rigged mesh with offsets, but throws things out of whack when you are |
[12:11] | Nyx Linden | definitely a solid use case for why allowing the modification of physics skeleton to match your uploaded joints would be useful, is there a JIRA around this? |
[12:12] | Tiberious Neruda | not one that I've created |
[12:12] | Rusalka Writer | Here I was thinking of it as my "why is my camera in a tree again?" problem. |
[12:13] | Al Blindside | Given that Blender is an open source code - would it be too crazy to see a drop down mesh menu and a corresponding off world version of Blender which has been stripped of the *impossible*? |
[12:14] | Rusalka Writer | Yep. Too crazy. |
[12:14] | Rusalka Writer | ; ) |
[12:14] | Al Blindside | lol |
[12:15] | Nyx Linden | It would definitely be good to see a feature request for this in JIRA, with documentation on why its important. We don't have cycles for it immediately, but I can see where this could be causing some issues |
[12:15] | Rusalka Writer | Tiberious has functional problems. I just have annoyance. |
[12:16] | Tiberious Neruda | I'll work with someone if they want to make a jira on it, but I'm not putting it up myself |
[12:17] | Motor Loon | such a stubborn little fellow that Tib... |
[12:17] | Al Blindside | Annoyance is one thing - but practicalities are another methinks? |
[12:17] | Nyx Linden | any other topics for this week? the floor is open :) |
[12:17] | Tiberious Neruda | you can't blame me, though, can you? |
[12:18] | Rusalka Writer | I'll do some experimentation with mesh upload on this new Mac. |
[12:18] | Rusalka Writer | When RL permits. |
[12:18] | Rusalka Writer | *crickets* |
[12:18] | Rusalka Writer | Anybody want to ask for tail bones this week? |
[12:18] | Tiberious Neruda | LOL! |
[12:19] | Rusalka Writer | How are those coming along? |
[12:19] | Al Blindside | RL is just a cumbersome relic for signing in... lol |
[12:19] | Neil Ceawlin | sigh |
[12:19] | Motor Loon | I think they're around the same stage as the nose bones |
[12:19] | Rusalka Writer | More comfortable couches in RL. |
[12:19] | Nyx Linden | /me files a jira for obtaining a more comfortable couch |
[12:19] | Rusalka Writer | Lol! |
[12:20] | Rusalka Writer | Well-played. I may not get a pony, but... |
[12:20] | Rusalka Writer | Or pony butt. |
[12:20] | Gramma Fiddlesticks | /me makes note to self: Self, build Nyx & Rusalka a more comfortable couch |
[12:20] | Motor Loon | I'm afraid I seem to have very little to whine about this week |
[12:20] | Rusalka Writer | How about the beta area? It's down to two sims now? |
[12:21] | Nyx Linden | whoo! guess we've fixed all the important bits! *schedules vacation* |
[12:21] | Motor Loon | yep! °͜° |
[12:21] | Rusalka Writer | Mesh is finished! |
[12:21] | Tiberious Neruda | oh, I douby mesh is FINISHED... |
[12:21] | Tiberious Neruda | ...but there's nothing outrageously broken either |
[12:21] | Motor Loon | well, I'd ask again about the custom pivots... but... yeah... been there done that |
[12:21] | Rusalka Writer | How has it come to this... |
[12:21] | Tiberious Neruda | yeah... |
[12:22] | Al Blindside | Given that beautiful in world tools like Mesh Studio exist - would it not be worth a meeting that basic mesh tools from primsw be incorporated into a future viewer? |
[12:22] | Rusalka Writer | Any changes coming to impact based on script addition? |
[12:22] | Motor Loon | changes?! |
[12:23] | Rusalka Writer | Lessening impact numbers, I was thinking. |
[12:23] | Tiberious Neruda | they did already, it hink |
[12:23] | Rusalka Writer | Oh, good, Drongle. |
[12:23] | Motor Loon | we just got that with pathfinding |
[12:23] | Tiberious Neruda | yeah |
[12:23] | Nyx Linden | I believe the pathfinding project had some land impact changes when it rolled out |
[12:23] | Rusalka Writer | Drongle, we're out of topics. We can start with your hair. |
[12:23] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | All my play right now is with Pathfinding and Navmesh... figuring it out and deciding what is or isn't working. ...and waiting on the Mesh Deformer... |
[12:23] | Gramma Fiddlesticks | PF changes just rolled out affected scipts with mesh. |
[12:23] | Drongle McMahon | :-) |
[12:23] | Rusalka Writer | Oh, good, you finished rezzing. Never mind. |
[12:24] | Tiberious Neruda | see, I'm curious why people aren't taking advantage of the 'RedPoly Method' |
[12:24] | Al Blindside | ?? |
[12:24] | Rusalka Writer | Ah, topics. |
[12:24] | Motor Loon | because its not supported? |
[12:24] | Geenz Spad | likely the amount of work involved to use it |
[12:24] | Rusalka Writer | How is the deformer? |
[12:24] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | It doesn't work with breasts... |
[12:24] | Geenz Spad | and that |
[12:24] | Tiberious Neruda | yeah, it might be a pain in the butt to paint another set of weights, but it's already here |
[12:24] | Geenz Spad | (also, saddle bags too) |
[12:24] | Tiberious Neruda | it ain't perfect |
[12:25] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | I DO NOT have saddle bags... :p |
[12:25] | Gramma Fiddlesticks | /me has both of those. *grin |
[12:25] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | RedPoly's method works in the viewer however it is complex to make the object. So, people are waiting on a wysiwig way to do it basically. |
[12:25] | Tiberious Neruda | but it seems to be working better than what we've seen so far of the deformer |
[12:26] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | I am hoping the next version of the deformer is better. |
[12:26] | beanster Potato | maybe in 2015 |
[12:26] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | Is Qarl working on a next version? |
[12:26] | Al Blindside | I don't undertand why mesh tools *have* to be off world? Power yes but surely some basics in world like the prim menu? |
[12:26] | Motor Loon | last I heard Karl was waiting for some serverside stuff |
[12:27] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | Supposedly... with no Metareality podcasts for the last 2 weeks it is hard to know. |
[12:27] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | Yes, I was wondering if he was still in limbo. |
[12:27] | Nyx Linden | mesh objects are set up to be relatively static - aside from retexturing, resizing, etc there are not mechanisms to re-write the assets |
[12:27] | Motor Loon | yeah Nal... I've gone into withdrawals |
[12:28] | Tiberious Neruda | maybe the uploader could support the groups needed for those non-collision-volume sliders? |
[12:28] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | You can use Meshstudio if you want an inworld solution for mesh building. |
[12:28] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | I think Nyx is saying that in-word mesh editing would be a really BIG add to SL, lots of code and stuff... so not going to happen anytime soon |
[12:28] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | There may be some other products as well at this point. |
[12:28] | Motor Loon | or at all |
[12:28] | Al Blindside | Nyx - if a clever scripter can join mesh in world - whu can't ll do same? |
[12:28] | Rusalka Writer | It can be priority #2,857. |
[12:29] | Motor Loon | what are you talking about Al ? |
[12:29] | Nyx Linden | define "join" :) |
[12:29] | Al Blindside | A mesh grouping |
[12:29] | Nyx Linden | linking should work fine with meshes |
[12:29] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | Why should they put cycles into doing that when a clever scripter has already done it? |
[12:30] | Rusalka Writer | Settling in for the remainder of the hour... |
[12:30] | Motor Loon | err |
[12:31] | Al Blindside | Because the world is made/ or was made bt residents in world and bot some fancy ass 'designer' with a 1000$US program |
[12:31] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | O.o |
[12:31] | Tiberious Neruda | I do notice that sometimes there's a bug with viewing people with a rigged mesh.... |
[12:31] | Tiberious Neruda | it acts as if the mesh loads first, and then their shape |
[12:31] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | Except that you don't need a 1,000 US program to make mesh assets. |
[12:32] | Rusalka Writer | Free program and will of lion! |
[12:32] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | lol |
[12:32] | Tiberious Neruda | this results in stretched meshes until you do a deruth |
[12:32] | Al Blindside | Yes - Blender could be modified is my point |
[12:32] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | And inworld programs like Meshstudio. So, that excuse is pretty much dead. |
[12:32] | Motor Loon | Blender works fine... why do you need it modified? |
[12:33] | Rusalka Writer | It sounds like asking why we don't just add French to English to pick up a bunch of new and useful words. |
[12:33] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | Hmm...you actually want LL to try to integrate Blender into the viewer? Seriously? |
[12:33] | Motor Loon | god no thanks |
[12:33] | Al Blindside | Linden Lans used to say "Made By Residents" ---- that meant inworld |
[12:33] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | lol |
[12:33] | Nyx Linden | any other topics for this week or should we wrap up early? |
[12:33] | Drongle McMahon | That gives me a sense of deja vu! |
[12:34] | Tiberious Neruda | Nyx: maybe finding some way to address the bug I mentioned? |
[12:34] | Al Blindside | Yes - Blender is open code |
[12:34] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | Classic...lol |
[12:34] | Rusalka Writer | Dang. I was relaxing. Having a beverage. |
[12:34] | Motor Loon | You're welcome to make a new viewer with Blender built in Al... have fun with that °͜° |
[12:34] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | lol |
[12:35] | Tiberious Neruda | the one where meshes with offset joints loads before the shape wearing it |
[12:35] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | Or Al could write a proposal and add it to the JIRA... |
[12:35] | Al Blindside | I have to push buttons where I see them |
[12:35] | Nyx Linden | I don't suppose there is a JIRA for that bug? |
[12:35] | Rusalka Writer | Jira away, Al. |
[12:35] | Tiberious Neruda | not sure. It's probably something that others have seen too |
[12:35] | Al Blindside | This is like a Jira -- they're here so I say my mind |
[12:36] | Nyx Linden | screenshots and log files would be greatly appreciated, if it can be reproduced |
[12:36] | Geenz Spad | I do have one thing to bring up! (if it's not too late, and given that there isn't much on the agenda today) |
[12:36] | Rusalka Writer | What happens in meeting stays in meeting. |
[12:36] | Nyx Linden | floor's open Geenz |
[12:36] | Motor Loon | err.. theres nothing on the agenda today Geenz |
[12:36] | Al Blindside | As long as it's not like Fight Club lol |
[12:37] | Rusalka Writer | Heh heh heh. |
[12:37] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | They've repeatedly stated that you need to make feature requests in JIRA form. Mentioning it here isn't going to get it noticed. |
[12:37] | Rusalka Writer | Absolutely. |
[12:37] | Geenz Spad | I forwarded this one on to Nyx after the CCIUG meeting we had that discussed it: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29349 |
[12:37] | JIRA-helper | [#VWR-29349] Additional bones for rigging - Second Life Bug Tracker |
[12:37] | Geenz Spad | has there been any progress on this? |
[12:38] | Rusalka Writer | There we are. |
[12:38] | Al Blindside | So no point to being here? Really? |
[12:38] | Motor Loon | ah nosebones atain |
[12:38] | Motor Loon | again |
[12:38] | Nyx Linden | Nothing new to report just yet, though I do appreciate the write-up, its good to have a central list of the additional bones being asked for. |
[12:38] | Rusalka Writer | We meet here to discuss problems, to see if anyone has experienced the same thing, if anyone has a workaround, and determine what needs to become a Jira. |
[12:39] | Mikki Miles | T-bone |
[12:39] | Rusalka Writer | The Jira system is the formal statement of a problem to LL and request for amendment. |
[12:39] | Geenz Spad | alrighty then, and I imagine you wouldn't complain if people posted their feedback there either would you Nyx? :P |
[12:39] | Motor Loon | Gonna be so much fun in Second Life‚Ñ¢ with we can all have 3 legs and 6 arms along with our 25 bone tails |
[12:39] | Tiberious Neruda | my only concern is that these need to be standardized |
[12:39] | Rusalka Writer | Centipedes... |
[12:40] | Asha (ashasekayi.ra) | /me snorts. "25 bone tails". |
[12:40] | Kazumi (wickedwanda.blackheart) | no wing bones on that jira..poor old angels and demons |
[12:40] | Nyx Linden | I'll add myself as a watcher to that issue, gathering comments would be appreciated as long as they add detail and stay on track |
[12:40] | Al Blindside | Jira is just a formalised opinion or suggestion - no need to ignore unformalised opinions I think? Anyways - i gotta scoot |
[12:40] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | 25 bone tails... now what can Xcite! think up to do with that? |
[12:40] | Geenz Spad | well, a few suggestions to everyone here regarding this one: |
[12:40] | Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) | Stay on track and JIRA? Good grief, you're asking for a lot. :P |
[12:40] | Rusalka Writer | Right. No centipedes. |
[12:40] | Geenz Spad | I imagine a bone structure would be helpful |
[12:41] | Tiberious Neruda | nothing. They're not attachments, so they can't do anything with 'em >:3 |
[12:41] | Tiberious Neruda | but that brings up an interesting question... |
[12:41] | Tiberious Neruda | do you really think we'd need another 60-70 attachment points to go along with those bones? |
[12:41] | Geenz Spad | since as it stands, saying "I want a riggable tail!" doesn't say much about how those bones should be structured (I.e., will 3 bones suffice? 4? 5? etc.) |
[12:42] | Tiberious Neruda | Geenz, I'd say no more than about 8 for the tail |
[12:42] | Nyx Linden | indeed, an explicit list & diagram would be most helpful |
[12:42] | Rusalka Writer | Explicit. Right, those too. |
[12:43] | Motor Loon | so what if you have two tails? |
[12:43] | Nyx Linden | with that I think we're pretty much wrapped up this week. See everyone next week! |
[12:43] | Motor Loon | are we going to discriminate against oddlings with two tails then? |
[12:43] | Nal (nalates.urriah) | Thx Lindens |
[12:43] | Rusalka Writer | Sigh. |
[12:43] | Gramma Fiddlesticks | Thanks Lindens. |
[12:43] | Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) | Bye all! |
[12:43] | Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) | See you next week, Nyx! |
[12:43] | Rusalka Writer | Aloha, all. Try to have more problems this week. |
[12:43] | Gramma Fiddlesticks | bye bye |
[12:44] | Tiberious Neruda | of course... |
[12:44] | Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) | See you Vir! |
[12:44] | Drongle McMahon | Bye |