Mono/2008-30-04

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[8:08]  You shout: mono office hour starting now
[8:24]  Dimentox Travanti: sup steampunk
[8:24]  Dimentox Travanti: did you see my steampunk vidio i did in new babbage?
[8:25]  You: hi
[8:25]  You: nope
[8:25]  You: do you have an url?
[8:25]  Dimentox Travanti: www.youtube.com/xotmid/
[8:25]  You: ta
[8:25]  Dimentox Travanti: Btw i am heavilly vested in mono
[8:25]  You: i'll check it out later
[8:25]  You: great
[8:26]  Dimentox Travanti: I am the creator of DCS i am sure you have heard of it
[8:26]  You: yes
[8:26]  You: nice to meet you
[8:26]  You: does DCS work well on Mono?
[8:26]  You: hi Siann
[8:26]  Dimentox Travanti: System.Security.VerificationException: A system exception has occurred. at LindenLab.SecondLife.Script.Deserialize (System.Byte[] class_data, System.Byte[] object_data) [0x00000]
[8:26]  Siann Beck: Hey Babbage.
[8:26]  Dimentox Travanti: Some of it does
[8:26]  You: Dimentox, recompiling should make that go away
[8:27]  Dimentox Travanti: Ive tested what i can the issue is i have to recode most of it
[8:27]  You: that exception means that we've changed the key we use to sign Mono assemblies
[8:27]  Dimentox Travanti: To better utilise the mono engine
[8:27]  Dimentox Travanti: right now its spread across many scripts
[8:27]  You: what have you had to change?
[8:27]  Dimentox Travanti: Nothing so far
[8:27]  You: great
[8:28]  You: recompile scripts in selection should work properly now
[8:28]  You: so you should be able to convert them all over to Mono using that
[8:28]  Dimentox Travanti: let me grab the newest version and try a compille
[8:28]  Dimentox Travanti: is there an easy way to do em all at once?
[8:28]  You: great, i'd love to see how it works
[8:28]  You: yes, rez the objects
[8:28]  You: select them
[8:28]  Dimentox Travanti: What if they are set to old compiler
[8:29]  You: then use Tools|Recompile scripts in selection|Mono
[8:29]  Dimentox Travanti: ahh ok
[8:29]  Dimentox Travanti: sec
[8:29]  Dimentox Travanti: waiting on inventory load
[8:29]  Dimentox Travanti: YOu know dcs relys heavily on http requests
[8:29]  Dimentox Travanti: any way to allow more chars comming through?
[8:29]  Dimentox Travanti: i have to make multiple requests when loading
[8:29]  You: could do
[8:30]  You: we give Mono scripts 64K
[8:30]  You: so we could increase the limit potentially
[8:30]  Dimentox Travanti: i mean via http request
[8:30]  Dimentox Travanti: its limited
[8:30]  You: we limited llHTTPRequest to avoid scripts running out of memory on http_response mainly
[8:30]  You: how are things going Siann?
[8:31]  Siann Beck: Pretty good. I've about tested everything I can think of.
[8:31]  Dimentox Travanti: so that will change?
[8:31]  You: and it all worked?
[8:31]  Siann Beck: Well, the bug reports stemming from my testing have been resolved :)
[8:31]  Siann Beck: I still need to re-test, I suppose.
[8:31]  You: great to hear
[8:31]  Dimentox Travanti: oops
[8:31]  Dimentox Travanti: darn protections
[8:32]  You: there are very few issues outstanding now
[8:32]  Siann Beck: Right.
[8:32]  You: we're doing some testing on whole regions
[8:32]  You: to compare performance
[8:32]  Siann Beck: Cool.
[8:32]  Dimentox Travanti: babbage
[8:32]  You: if those tests go well we should be good to go soon
[8:32]  You: yep?
[8:32]  Dimentox Travanti: Can we get toxia in beta on main grid for mono?
[8:32]  Siann Beck: Are all the Mono regions here also H4 now?
[8:33]  You: we can copy toxia over to the beta grid for testing if that would help?
[8:33]  Dimentox Travanti: i ment on live
[8:33]  You: we're still looking for regions to test here
[8:34]  You: we'd like to roll mono out across all the regions on agni in one go
[8:34]  Dimentox Travanti: ahh ok
[8:34]  Mbrb Rau: I'd like that too
[8:34]  Mbrb Rau: loads of regions to test
[8:34]  Dimentox Travanti: Its going to be hard to get a good test unless i can get a full reagon
[8:34]  You: otherwise people will be able to buy objects containing scripts that might stop working on some regions
[8:34]  You: mono is opt in
[8:34]  You: so even when it's deployed to agni, you will have the choice of when to opt in
[8:35]  Dimentox Travanti: If you can copy toxia and enable mono it would be great ill fill it with BOts
[8:35]  Dimentox Travanti: and do testing
[8:35]  Siann Beck: You mean the developers, right?
[8:35]  Mbrb Rau: here is easy way to find out if its havok1
[8:35]  You: ok, i'll talk to peri about copying it over
[8:35]  You have offered friendship to Dimentox Travanti
[8:35]  Dimentox Travanti is Online
[8:36]  You: it would be great to have DCS tested heavily here
[8:36]  Dimentox Travanti: Ill have to create alt accounts so i can fill the sim with 60 libsl bots
[8:36]  Dimentox Travanti: to recreate the lag/issues we see in live
[8:36]  You: sounds great
[8:36]  Mbrb Rau: this must be havok4
[8:36]  Dimentox Travanti: any way you can assist with the account creation?
[8:36]  You: yes, we've merged Mono and Havok 4 now
[8:36]  You: i can ask, certainly
[8:36]  Dimentox Travanti: awesome
[8:37]  Siann Beck: In all regions, Babbage?
[8:37]  Dimentox Travanti: I think dcs is a very good test of mono
[8:37]  You: if you have accounts you use with bots at the moment, they should work here
[8:37]  You: if they're old enough
[8:37]  Dimentox Travanti: I only have a few
[8:37]  Dimentox Travanti: Id need like 60
[8:37]  Siann Beck: And certainly a major system that should be tested before deployment, Dimentox.
[8:37]  Dimentox Travanti: I have written a program where they will figh each other use powers etc
[8:37]  Dimentox Travanti: so we could practically automate the testing
[8:38]  You: that's something we've been wanting to do
[8:38]  You: test regions running scripts on Mono under heavy load
[8:38]  You: so that would be great
[8:38]  Dimentox Travanti: Ill work with you later on it?
[8:38]  Dimentox Travanti: I have a meeting i need to get to
[8:38]  You: yes, i'll talk to peri and get back to you
[8:38]  You: can you IM me an email address?
[8:38]  Dimentox Travanti: Just im me on main grid...
[8:39]  Dimentox Travanti: dimentox.travanti@gmail.com
[8:39]  You: ta
[8:39]  Dimentox Travanti: I have the server resources to run about 200 bots
[8:39]  Dimentox Travanti: which i can all have doing normal player stuff with dcs
[8:39]  Dimentox Travanti: aka fights and stuff
[8:39]  You: sounds great
[8:39]  Dimentox Travanti: so we can do a real load testing for mono
[8:40]  You: is it worth trying to get region crossing tested with the bots?
[8:40]  Dimentox Travanti: Sure
[8:40]  Dimentox Travanti: toxia is 2 regions
[8:40]  You: ok, great
[8:40]  Dimentox Travanti: i can program them to run back and forth
[8:40]  Dimentox Travanti: they work on a A* algrythim for pathfinding
[8:40]  Mbrb Rau: or waypoints
[8:40]  Dimentox Travanti: so they figure out and choose the best paths
[8:41]  Dimentox Travanti: not way points they can learn a sim
[8:41]  Mbrb Rau: o
[8:41]  Dimentox Travanti: its a ver advanced NPC system i am developing
[8:41]  Dimentox Travanti: for MMO's in second life
[8:41]  You: sounds great
[8:41]  Siann Beck: Impressive!
[8:41]  Dimentox Travanti: mono is one of the keys for it
[8:42]  Dimentox Travanti: cause currently lsl is very limited and kinda sluggish for the dcs to bot coms
[8:42]  Dimentox Travanti: Babbage you have my permission to tear apart and open the dcs scripts... Just NDA thingy
[8:42]  You: great
[8:43]  You: it would probably be best for you to test them once we have toxia here though
[8:43]  You: as i won't know if things are working exactly right
[8:43]  Dimentox Travanti: ohh ill run the tests
[8:43]  Dimentox Travanti: And ill be making modifications for it
[8:43]  Dimentox Travanti: i plan on dcs3 being all mono optimized
[8:43]  Dimentox Travanti: ohh quick question
[8:44]  Dimentox Travanti: PLEASE tell me once it goes public i can disable old LSL... so the sim lag can stop
[8:44]  Dimentox Travanti: aka set a estate setting
[8:44]  Mbrb Rau: So the whole mono thing is ment to reduce lag
[8:44]  You: we don't have it as an option at the moment
[8:44]  You: as, again it would cause some scripts to not work on some sims
[8:44]  Siann Beck: There are a number of benefits, Mbrb
[8:44]  Siann Beck: That being one of htem.
[8:45]  You: which could cause problems
[8:45]  Dimentox Travanti: i understand that.. BUT we can al;ready disable scripts.. id like to just disable old byte code
[8:45]  Siann Beck: That's not a bad idea, though, Babbage -- give estate managers teh option to disallow lsl scripts.
[8:45]  Mbrb Rau: I thought there already is one
[8:45]  You: it's something I'd like to allow once we're happy that there are no problems with Mono
[8:46]  You: as i mentioned, the current plan is for a soft launch to agni
[8:46]  You: where Mono is opt in to start with
[8:46]  You: once we've had it running without problems for a while, we could add features like allowing LSL to be disabled
[8:46]  Siann Beck: Do you mean opt-in for the region managers, or for the developers?
[8:47]  You: opt-in for developers
[8:47]  Dimentox Travanti: Awesome
[8:47]  Siann Beck: OK, right.
[8:47]  Dimentox Travanti: Babage.. Dcs compiles and runs on the latest version
[8:47]  Dimentox Travanti: see how functional it is when i run stress tests
[8:47]  You: which i think is the right approach as scripters will be able to test their scripts
[8:47]  Siann Beck: That's impressive for Mono.
[8:47]  You: that's great news
[8:47]  Siann Beck: You didn't have to change anything, Dimentox?
[8:47]  Dimentox Travanti: Nope
[8:47]  Siann Beck: Wow
[8:48]  You: :-D
[8:48]  Siann Beck: If something that complex can run without change, I think we've about nailed it.
[8:48]  Dimentox Travanti: Ok i gotta run... let me know when you wanna stress/load test
[8:48]  You: will do
[8:48]  You: thanks for coming
[8:48]  Dimentox Travanti: and yeah something this complex working is a awesome feat
[8:48]  You: and thanks for all your help getting to this point Siann
[8:49]  Siann Beck: np, it's been interesting.
[8:49]  Dimentox Travanti waves
[8:49]  You: bye
[8:49]  Siann Beck: See you
[8:49]  Dimentox Travanti is Offline
[8:49]  You: ok, we have 10 minutes left
[8:49]  Siann Beck: Did I miss anything in the first part?
[8:49]  You: any other things you'd like to discuss?
[8:50]  You: no, you arrived just after Dimentox Siann
[8:50]  Siann Beck: I see.
[8:50]  You: we're currently building a new beta viewer
[8:50]  You: and testing in
[8:50]  You: it
[8:50]  Siann Beck: OK
[8:50]  Mbrb Rau: When can I download it?
[8:50]  You: hopefully that will be available later today
[8:50]  You: or tomorrow
[8:50]  You: it has a fix for recompiling scripts in selection
[8:50]  Siann Beck: Are all the Mono regions merged with H4 now?
[8:51]  You: yes, all the Mono regions are running Havok 4
[8:51]  Siann Beck: Great.
[8:51]  You: we found one issue, but it seems to be debug only
[8:51]  You: which is good news
[8:51]  Siann Beck: Cool.
[8:51]  Mbrb Rau: And maybe add a "release permission" option, where y
[8:51]  Mbrb Rau: where you can
[8:51]  Mbrb Rau: revoke various permissions
[8:51]  Siann Beck: Hm?
[8:52]  Mbrb Rau: such as animations, controls, etc
[8:52]  Mbrb Rau: because there's objects like this
[8:52]  Mbrb Rau: deform when sat on
[8:52]  You: yes, i've seen those
[8:53]  Siann Beck: Doesn't it release perms when you stand?
[8:53]  Mbrb Rau: there are looped ones
[8:53]  Mbrb Rau: and here it is
[8:53]  Mbrb Rau: undeformers can't fix it
[8:53]  Mbrb Rau: since its in a loop
[8:54]  You: ok, that's something we should look at
[8:54]  You: but i don't think it's a mono issue
[8:54]  You: so it's probably something to do post mono
[8:54]  Mbrb Rau: yes, nothing to do with mono really
[8:54]  Mbrb Rau: so look into it later
[8:54]  Babbage Linden tries to avoid feature creep
[8:55]  You: ok, 5 minutes, any more comments?
[8:55]  Siann Beck: I can't think of anything.
[8:55]  Mbrb Rau: I can't think either.
[8:55]  You: great
[8:55]  Siann Beck: Probably hard to think, all twisted up like that.
[8:56]  You: well, hopefully the new refresh with new viewer will be out in the next couple of days
[8:56]  Siann Beck: Great.
[8:56]  You: and we'll be working on testing regions like toxia on mono
[8:56]  Siann Beck: That should be interesting.
[8:56]  Mbrb Rau: And test parcels?
[8:57]  You: we'd like to test regions where we can work with 1 resident or group to recompile all the scripts to Mono and test them
[8:57]  Mbrb Rau: What I ment is, small parcels that are available to somebody on request.
[8:58]  Mbrb Rau: On here.
[8:58]  You: i think vektor has carved up one of the sandboxes
[8:58]  Siann Beck: Vektor set up several for sale in Newcomb.
[8:58]  Mbrb Rau: I see.
[8:58]  You: so you should talk to him
[8:58]  You: ok, we're just about out of time
[8:59]  You: thanks again for coming Siann
[8:59]  Siann Beck: np. I'm looking forward to the launch.
[8:59]  You: me too :-D
[8:59]  Siann Beck: I'll try to get my stuff re-tested before Friday, and let Peri know if any issues remain.
[8:59]  You: thanks