Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-23

07:02	Office Orb	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
		Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
		Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
	Oz Linden	Hi all
	Twisted Laws	hello
07:03	Wolfpup	hopes the OS build issues get fixed fast
07:04	Oz Linden	That's moving slowliy
	Jonathan	Is that the crash on startup issue or something else?
	Wolfpup	hey Tank
07:05		yes Jonathan
	Jonathan	It should be a quick fix, check for NULL and do the right thing
	Oz Linden	We're in the process of upgrading much of our internal farm, which is taking up the time of the people needed
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	hi
	Oz Linden	on the other hand, we'll make the same kind of changes to the external one, so it'll be better for the wait
07:06	Wolfpup	Oz i was talking about the sh-1616 and sh-1624
	Oz Linden	The problem with that startup crash is a threading issue
		some thread is calling the texture list before it's been initialized
	Jonathan	There are other places that call that routine that check for NULL
07:07	Oz Linden	and it can't be initialized until OpenGL has been, etc.
		Bao is working on it, and if he doesn't sort it out today I'll try to get him some help
	Twisted Laws	yeah, can't debug it tho because of the llconvexdecompositionstub tho
07:08	Oz Linden	I thought that Nyx put in a fix for the problem with the stub on Friday?
	Wolfpup	that is another issue that need to get worked out
	Twisted Laws	not checked in anywhere i sa
	Oz Linden	hmmm.....
	Jonathan	jira # ?
	Wolfpup	he said he was working on that fast in irc Friday
07:09	Twisted Laws	been 4 weeks since a check in on https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecompositionstub/
	Oz Linden	ah... right.... well, I'll follow up with him today too
07:10	Jonathan	oz, can individual jiras in SH (etc) be made public-readable? We cannot follow these issues once they are pulled in there
	Wolfpup	sh-16 abd sh-1624 are visable
	Oz Linden	yes, it's possible
07:11	Wolfpup	sh-1616 ment
	Twisted Laws	just have to log on, right?
07:12	Oz Linden	There are a couple of ways to move issues between projects, and if someone uses the wrong one moving from VWR to SH, then it gets hidden
	Jonathan	ok, those 2 are now once you log in; last week I could not get at 1624
	Oz Linden	it's usually unintentional, and if you have one you'd like to see just check with me and I can usually get it changed fairly quickly
07:13	Jonathan	The other issue is they are not visible in jira search, so a duplicate gets created
	Oz Linden	yup
07:14		although I have not noticed that having something already filed is all that effective at preventing duplicates :-)
	Wolfpup	Oz on a side note i can now build the 3p-fmod repository with out any modifications
	Jonathan	ha yes, you should see what got filed over the weekend when the asset server was having troubles
		wolfpup is bringing up open-71 I think
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-71 OPEN-71 As an Open Source (OS) developer using windows I want 3p-FMOD library to build and package locally using autobuild.
07:15	Oz Linden	I spent the weekend building gardens and planting in them, so I missed all the drama.... have not caught up yet
		yes... I wanted to talk about that
07:16	Jonathan	I was about to write some wiki instructions when I saw that being worked on, so held off until it is pulled in
	Oz Linden	The issue does not describe what the problem is with doing the build locally
	Jonathan	there are no instructions for fmod yet in the build wiki
	Oz Linden	what is/was it?
		I'll get some instructions up this week for sure
		Taken too long :-(
07:17	Wolfpup	Oz Os devs have to hve curl and uzip in Cygwin for fmod to build right
07:18		it would help Os devs if we knew the exact configuration of cygwin on the LL build farms
	Oz Linden	doesn't the fmod build use those packages from autobuild?
	Twisted Laws	yes :)
	Oz Linden	(it should)
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	the fmod package is internal to LL
	Wolfpup	some and from cygwin as well
	Twisted Laws	its getting cygwin right is an issue for some of us
	Jonathan	unless we ask for unzip to be installed when setting up cygwin we have no unzip command loaded normally
07:19	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	like kdu is
	Jonathan	unzip is not part of a default cygwin install
	Wolfpup	and that gose for curl as well
		< did a full rebuild of his fmod repository this morning
	Oz Linden	We can't make an fmod prebuild available, tankmaster... their license doesn't allow it
07:20	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	i think i misread your question, sorry
07:21	Oz Linden	If there are tools prerequisites that we need, then there are two things we should do:
		1) document them better on the wiki
		2) Put checks into the configure step to verify them
		or at least into the build
	Jonathan	1) was done over the weekend for windows builds
07:22	Oz Linden	that's good
		2 is for bonus points :-)
	Jonathan	unzip is not needed for a stock viewer compile
07:23	Wolfpup	but it is needed for the 3p- libs
	Oz Linden	well, if you want to build fmod in, it sounds like it is needed
	Jonathan	that is why it has only recently croppd up
	Oz Linden	ok
07:24		it's clearly better if people have audio
	Wolfpup	yes it is
07:25		i wonder what is comeing down the pipeline from the xui team
07:26	Oz Linden	they're pretty busy...
	Jonathan	speaking of build farms, how is your little project coming along oz?
	Oz Linden	one thing I'll be doing this week is reviewing a few TPV features to see if we can pull them in
		slowly :(
07:28	Wolfpup	like what kind of features OZ
07:29	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	you may find the jira parcer in firestorm handy, but im not sure if most of the userbase would
		its makes things like STORM-123 into clickable URL links
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-123 STORM-123 Resizing ability of nearby chatbar in bottomtray appears only after click.
	Oz Linden	Some things we'll look at are UI tweaks, others things like the media filter
07:30	Wolfpup	< would like to see a rework of the home tab in the side bar
	Twisted Laws	the media filter would make some people happy
	Jonathan	oz, you remember my "long list"? I still have a pile of ui tweaks that could be looked at
	Oz Linden	I'm not convinced that things like that really belong in the viewer, though, tank
	Wolfpup	that would make a lot of people happy Tank
07:31	Oz Linden	Well, you are welcome to keep working down the list, JY
	Jonathan	Tank, storm-1068 is stalled getting into v-d but your team might want to pick it up; the work is all done
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1068 STORM-1068 Add optional range ring(s) to the mini-map -- one centered on you with a radius of 20m to show local chat range
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	bolded moderator chat has really helped in quickly identifying who is speeking that is a moderator for a group, making it more likely people pay attention to what they say better
	Oz Linden	yes, what happened with that, Jonathan...
	Wolfpup	Oz some media if it is done in a vesious manor can invade peoples privacy
	Oz Linden	I thought we were good with it
	Jonathan	Wolf has it on hold
07:32	Oz Linden	I'll ask him what's up with that, then
	Jonathan	super :)
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	thx for the link, johnathan
	Jonathan	Maybe it fell off his, err, radar
	Oz Linden	that's what the filter is for, Wolfpup.... it let's you decide what to play and what not to
07:33		I've got a working version based on the one in Firestorm, but it broke the unit tests and I have not fixed them yet
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	group chat faid to send messages not being a blocker ok is a simple yet appreciated fix we did (changed the message from alertmodle to notify)
	Wolfpup	the only time i play media is if im at my current home sim and it is what i have set to play ie.... audio stream or mabey a test moap
07:34	Oz Linden	that would be a good one, tankmaster
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	i think we extended our media filter to also filter MOaP, not sure though
	Wolfpup	but i have heard of places that you can not go unless you have media turnd on other wise you get booted
07:35	Oz Linden	You don't even let my lapping water sounds here play, Wolfpup? I'm hurt :-)
	Wolfpup	ie places with certian security systems in place
07:36		those are inworld sounds and those do play
07:37		inworld sounds are different that say the parcel audio stream
	Twisted Laws	wolfpup, that sounds like google... if you don't let us misuse your privacy, we won't let you play
07:39	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	oh, i nphoenix we added that chats from lindens are in blue :P
	Twisted Laws	dang, i like blue friends ... purple lindens :p
	Jonathan	Does that work if they have a DN set?
07:40	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	you can change the color
	Oz Linden	I've wondered about that.... what's the point? Is it so hard to pick us out?
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	yes, it uses the isLinden variable
		i think it was because it was sible after adding in the ability to change text color for friends
		simple*
07:41	Twisted Laws	on the earlier convos, is it up to us OS poeple to fix llconvexdecompositionstub? or is a Linden going to help?
	Jonathan	is there a jira # for that?
07:42	Oz Linden	If by fixing the stub, you mean fixing it so that it doesn't crash when used, we're working on it
	Twisted Laws	to reproduce the non-public version for functionality
	Oz Linden	if you mean implementing the parts it does not do, then that's up to the community
	Twisted Laws	ok
07:43	Jonathan	Can LL distribute a stand-alone converter (I remember hearing KL talk about using one)
07:44	Oz Linden	We're not going to build one, I don't think, but there's no problem with linking one from the wiki
07:46	Twisted Laws	if we build a working stub, will the labs host it in the stub repository?
07:47	Oz Linden	Well, bitbucket will host anything....
	Wolfpup	Oz he is talking about the source code its self
07:48	Oz Linden	so was I
	Twisted Laws	maybe i think differently and not getting what i mean across... i was meaning if we build a working stub and review it and all... and have the source in the current stub repository with a built lib so others didn't have to do the same
	Oz Linden	anyone can create a repo so that it's available
07:49		ah.... possibly, if there is a consensus that there is one solution everyone likes
		and there are no adverse licensing problems (like fmod)
	Twisted Laws	right
07:51		i'm an old guy, been developing software for 30+ years ... my mind doesn't do conversations well sometimes but usually it can design/code/test very well
07:52		sorry if i don't come across right sometimes
07:53	Oz Linden	I think that the trickiest part of doing open development is finding ways to discuss and build consensus around what the goals are
		Too often, people try to skip that step and just hack away....
07:54	Twisted Laws	hardest part for me as i always did my job by myself ... sold out and retired because of the group work issues... i've been trying but this is hard for me
	Oz Linden	which is fine on small projects, but once you've got a lot of people involved it doesn't work well
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	agreed
	Oz Linden	the fact that something is open is not a substitute for design or project management
07:55	Wolfpup	there are two systems out there that are opensourced that could be used to ad full functionality to the stub
	Twisted Laws	yes, but you guys sometimes don't share your directions ...
	Oz Linden	well, I'm trying to do better at that, but I agree there's some way to go there
07:56	Twisted Laws	which 2, wolfpup?
07:59		btw, i do think you've improved things Oz
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	agreed
		we have really appricated the help youve done in getting us in contact with various lindens
08:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	Oz Linden	thanks.... it's an adventure :-)
08:01		One of the things I'm going to do today is to get my statistics on open source contributions up to date.... I have not run the analyzer is several weeks
	Jonathan	Are you still working on getting the OS names updated in Help>about?
08:02	Wolfpup	John Radclif's and the bullet physics system
	Oz Linden	Yes, in fact I'm going to try to do that this week too
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	just rememebr to do all the languages :P
	Oz Linden	Since I now have done my first XUI changes, I'm all hot to do more :-)
	Wolfpup	but the bullet system is actualy useing John's code
	Oz Linden	Actually, I'm going to change that dialog so that you don't need to edit the different languages
08:03	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	ive been meening to tdo that
	Oz Linden	I'll load the names at run time from a separate file
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	adealy all lists of names should be in a centeril location
08:04	Jonathan	There are a lot of names in there; I wonder what became of many of them, and if they could be recruited back.
	Oz Linden	well, open devs come and go on all projects
08:05		I've got to get back to other things folks... thanks for coming by, and I'll post something in irc & the list when we get the startup issues addressed
	Wolfpup	i think one kind of got frustrated after having a bunch of issues setting approved on the Rb but not implamented
	Jonathan	I was trying to recruit some people who were chatting in the beta group over the weekend. Sometimes it takes someone to say "it is not as hard as you think"
08:06	Office Orb	End transcription
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	tc oz
	Wolfpup	tc Oz and see you @ the scrum metting
	Twisted Laws	bye, ty
	Jonathan	Thank you Oz
	Oz Linden	Let me know if I can be of any help with encouraging people