Open Source Meeting/2010-03-04

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Agenda Thursday, 04 March 2010

  1. Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
  2. Finalize 1.3
    • outstanding bugs?
    • test sprint required?
    • RC2 ready to be the release?
  3. SNOW-495: create a BINDIST CMake variable for producing (hopefully) legally distributable binaries
    • Not answered at last meeting: Could we get LL's legal department to cooperate on this one, so we can minimize the guessing on what the required steps are?
  4. Snowglobe 1.4: bug triaged in the community, tree's open, commits coming?
    • "commits coming?": looks like not anymore ...
  5. Snowglobe 2.0: what the heck was Merov doing?
    • Snowglobe 2.0 Source code issues, many with patches (see SNOW 2.0 Source Code issues on pJIRA)
    • How to handle ports from Snowglobe 1.x to 2.0?
      • For now, we've opened separate issues, so status can be tracked independently. (We don't want to mess up the 1.x release process by reopening stuff that is and stays fixed in 1.x)
      • Should we still include the original issue IDs in contributions.txt, so that diff can be used to see what still needs to be ported?
  6. What is the official answer about source drops for non-Snowglobe 2.x? (Yes/Later/No) --Thickbrick
    • Answers so far were too vague (Howard Look's email)
    • If the answer to 6. above is "No," where does it leave us WRT:
      • Making sweeping changes in Snowglobe (e.g. UI changes diverging from LL decisions, infrastructure changes, etc.)?
      • Upstream diverging from Snowglobe. Likely, unlikely?
  7. [2010/03/03 08:13] Q Linden: I have beeen in a number of snowglobe triages, and most of the time when we don't import a bug fix it's because the fix is either a local fix to a global bug, or a viewer-side patch that papers over a server-side problem.


[14:04] Merov Linden: can we start guys?
[14:04] Boroondas Gupte: I think so
[14:04] Merov Linden: looks like we have a quorum
[14:04] Techwolf Lupindo: First, a link to the angenda please.
[14:04] Merov Linden: it's on the wall
[14:04] Merov Linden: :)
[14:04] Ardy Lay: We were NOT ignored. We were told the changes we were protesting were a foregone conclusion and to focus on debugging.
[14:04] Robin Cornelius:
[14:05] Merov Linden: OK, Finalize 1.3
[14:05] Tengu Yamabushi: Thank you, Robin.
[14:05] Merov Linden: I triage 44 unscheduled bugs and look in the coming bunch
[14:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: Techwolf, in SG 1.3 enable MediaOnAPrimUI. That gives you a 2.0-like UI to pop the land media into a browser.
[14:06] Merov Linden: and, so far, no new 1.3 bugs that could be considered as show stoppers
[14:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: one reported today, but I don't think it's a showstopper (SNOW-551)
[14:06] JIRA helper:

[#SNOW-551] -loginuri command line argument converted to lower case

[14:06] Merov Linden: so, if everyone's fine with it, I'd like to call it a wrap and make that last 1.3.2 the official Snowglobe
[14:07] Sahkolihaa Contepomi has been running 1.3.2 RC for the entire week with no issues.
[14:07] Robin Cornelius: yea 551 causes some OGP breakage but certainly not a snow stopper
[14:07] Merov Linden looks for pixel
[14:07] Pixel Gausman looks at 551
[14:08] Robin Cornelius: Pixel, Hurli came in to opensl a bit grumpy earlier ;-)
[14:08] Pixel Gausman: he seems to be that way a lot.
[14:09] Robin Cornelius: i guess it broke a launch thingie
[14:09] Pixel Gausman: so it was put into lower case to put into the history file?
[14:09] Techwolf Lupindo: I've been trying to keep up with all the bug reports and patches, but things are just moving so fast on me. :-)
[14:09] Pixel Gausman: seems silly
[14:09] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes
[14:10] Pixel Gausman: that would be an issue for any OpenSim user, me thinketh
[14:10] Thickbrick Sleaford: as far as I can see, we can just remove those 2 lines of toLower, but that needs testing and I think we're too late in the 1.3 cycle for that
[14:10] Merov Linden: on the face of it, seems like something pretty common for folks using OGP-login
[14:11] Morgaine Dinova: Who are the folks using OGP-login? It would be good to know so people could talk to each other.
[14:11] Robin Cornelius: be careful just removing those lines, it will probably upset the login history that aleric added, i suspect it needs a comparison done under is_lower() but storage nativly
[14:11] Merov Linden: Morgaine: that's why I was asking Pixel
[14:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think the comparison is only done on the host part of the URI (LLURI::getHost)
[14:12] Morgaine Dinova: Oh I know Pixel's using it, she wrote the thing. :-)) I mean who else.
[14:12] Boroondas Gupte: maybe just the domain part of the URL should be lowercased?
[14:12] Pixel Gausman: not a lot. me, Hurliman, Lindenites, and a few others doing occasional testing
[14:12] Pixel Gausman: why should *any* of it be changed? it's a URL!
[14:12] Merov Linden: Hmmm... seems few to hold 1.3
[14:13] Morgaine Dinova: Hurli uses Snowglobe with OGP-login?
[14:13] Pixel Gausman: yes
[14:13] Pixel Gausman: me thinks so a little
[14:13] Merov Linden: not that we can still do a 1.3.3 later..
[14:13] Morgaine Dinova: Cool, I'll talk to him sometime
[14:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: it can break for login to non-OGP 3rd party grids, but I don't think any major ones use a URI that is sensitive to this.
[14:13] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: try to catch him in a good mood. :)
[14:14] Pixel Gausman: yeah, i think thick is right.
[14:14] Morgaine Dinova: He's always in a good mood with me.
[14:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: I only tried personally to login to OSGrid, though.
[14:14] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: doh!
[14:14] Pixel Gausman: Merov: go forth and prosper with 1.3.2
[14:15] Merov Linden: we're coders so we deserve to be talked down to...
[14:15] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: have u ported SNOW-129 to the Snowglobe 2.0 codebase?
[14:15] JIRA helper:

[#SNOW-129] Select account from list at login

[14:15] Merov Linden: anyway, OK, I'll flip the switch on 1.3.2
[14:15] Pixel Gausman: if so, can you change it to not do the lower casing?
[14:16] Morgaine Dinova: Pixel: why would I port anything to the Snowglobe 2.0 codebase before all the closedness and client-side scripting and TPV issues are resolved?
[14:16] Pixel Gausman: woops. Morgaine, Merov.. can't think straight today
[14:16] Merov Linden: Pixel: nope, not yet
[14:16] Pixel Gausman: Merov: have u ported SNOW-129 to the Snowglobe 2.0 codebase?
[14:17] Pixel Gausman: ok
[14:17] Morgaine Dinova: Easy mistake to make, cranky Frenchman and cranky Brit. There's only a channel between us, you know. :-)
[14:17] Merov Linden: No, I haven't :)
[14:17] Pixel Gausman: when u do, plz undoodle the lower casing. (eventually pixel will catch up to the conversation)
[14:17] Merov Linden: There's a reason I move to the other side of the planet...
[14:17] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
[14:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
[14:18] Merov Linden: anyway, enough with 1.3 I think
[14:18] Merov Linden: next
[14:18] Merov Linden: SNOW-495
[14:18] JIRA helper:

[#SNOW-495] BINDIST --- easy way to produce legally distributable binary packages

[14:19] Merov Linden: I'm all in favor of doing this work
[14:19] Merov Linden: I'm not sure what legal has to do with it though
[14:20] Robin Cornelius: legally distributable as in GPL compliant
[14:20] Robin Cornelius: possibly also TVP compilant would also be revelant with branding and logos etc
[14:20] Thickbrick Sleaford: Snowglobe is a LL trademark
[14:20] Boroondas Gupte: also I'm not sure if we can package the vivox stuff
[14:20] Techwolf Lupindo: legil has to tell us what files are owned by LL in way of trademark and so on.
[14:20] Merov Linden: GPL compliancy is all about making the source code available
[14:21] Robin Cornelius: its also about not linking to non-free binaries eg KDU and distrbuting
[14:21] Merov Linden: Ha! Snowglobe trademark, I saw that (different record though)
[14:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: there's more to ditribution than copyright.
[14:21] Morgaine Dinova: Merov: GPL compliance is about a lot more than that. GPLv2 clause 6 is about guaranteed developers freedoms to modify and distribute.
[14:21] Thickbrick Sleaford mumbles Iceweasel
[14:21] Robin Cornelius: heh
[14:21] Robin Cornelius: i bag Iceglobe
[14:22] Pixel Gausman: i guess i would opt to change the jira name to "easy way to produce distributable binary". lawyer will cringe at 'legally distributable'
[14:22] Merov Linden: OK, on the (tm), I've been discussing with legal on this this morning
[14:22] Boroondas Gupte: well, I've put "legally" in it to distinguish from "will run everywhere you unpack it"
[14:22] Thickbrick Sleaford: (Iceweasel = )
[14:23] Merov Linden: not settled yet but so it's hard to discuss what my opinion is (my opinion is not helpful and eventually irrelevant)
[14:23] Merov Linden: but, yes, I'm working intenally to get this cleared up
[14:23] Robin Cornelius: think of the mozilla fiasco on debian please
[14:24] Merov Linden heard about that
[14:24] Robin Cornelius: we've been here before though as well
[14:24] Merov Linden: but OK, I hear you now
[14:24] Robin Cornelius: this is the 2nd time around this loop
[14:24] Morgaine Dinova: And think of the BSD advertising clause fiasco too please, which took many more years to resolve than iceweasel. "No further restrictions" is an important clause of the GPL.
[14:24] Techwolf Lupindo: iceweasel, oppisite of fire and the personally of the mozilla group.
[14:25] Thickbrick Sleaford: Also, the cutest logo of any browser.
[14:25] Morgaine Dinova: (Check GPLv2'FAQ for more info on that)
[14:25] Robin Cornelius: FireCubiod then?
[14:25] Merov Linden: In any case, a nice build system that would guarantee what all logo, tm, license issue are cleanly dealt with would be good
[14:25] Morgaine Dinova nods
[14:25] Nyndia Eponym: SteamCube.
[14:26] Merov Linden: so working on SNOW-495 is good no matter what
[14:26] Boroondas Gupte: "guarantee" not in the legal sense, though. Neither the community nor LL could do that, I guess.
[14:26] Boroondas Gupte: ;-)
[14:26] Morgaine Dinova: "Help ensure"
[14:27] Boroondas Gupte: yeah
[14:27] Merov Linden: so I guess the answer to the "what the next step is?" question is "Merov dealing with LL legal to resolve Snowglobe tm issue"
[14:27] Merov Linden: at least that's a first clear step
[14:28] Pixel Gausman hands Merov her sympathy
[14:28] Techwolf Lupindo: The build sytem would just leave out the non-distrubitiable files and its up to the packager to add there own files to prevent runtime errors.
[14:28] Merov Linden: k, next: SG1.4
[14:28] Merov Linden: the tree (2009 trunk) is open for commits
[14:29] Merov Linden: I haven't committed to it true
[14:29] Robin Cornelius: i've committed a couple of things on 1.4/trunk, mostly some build tweaks though nothing really exciting
[14:29] Merov Linden: and I know that other committers are busy with SG2.0 hacks
[14:29] Robin Cornelius: i think i've now rolled those same commits in to 2.0 anyway
[14:30] Jonathan Yap: Will we see parts of 2.0 in 1.4?
[14:30] Merov Linden: I told before I'd do a weekly 1.4 build
[14:30] Morgaine Dinova: Wow, I was just thinking about Thick's "cutest logo of any browser", and it occurred to me, if that same person who designed the Snowglobe logo were contracted to design the widget textures for Snowglobe-2.0, that would be epic.
[14:30] Merov Linden: I didn't last week as I fixed the build for 1.3
[14:30] Robin Cornelius: Time permitting i'm all up for keeping 1.x going for a little while anyway
[14:31] Merov Linden: Robin: +1, at least as a contingency branch in case of horrible mishap
[14:31] Robin Cornelius: LL do seem to reapidly switch viewer versions and force upgrades when there are major changes that take time to adjust too
[14:31] Robin Cornelius: so keeping a SG 1.x around will make that transition easier
[14:31] Aimee Linden: +1
[14:31] Merov Linden: yes, it's not more work for me to keep this open, really
[14:32] Merov Linden: I'll triage my 1.4 bugs
[14:32] Robin Cornelius: i considered in a moment of madness some backports from 2.0
[14:32] Merov Linden: I've been a tad busy in the last 2 days triaging bugs right and left though
[14:32] Morgaine Dinova: Well can't use Snowglobe-2.0 until its speed issues are resolved. 2 FPS where Snowglobe-1.x does 20 FPS is a showstopper for active events.
[14:32] Merov Linden feels he's living in JIRA
[14:32] Merov Linden: 2 FPS!
[14:33] Morgaine Dinova: 'Fraid so. Senf-compiled on Linux-32
[14:33] Ardy Lay: Yes, I am having to say with Snowglobe 1.4.0 for several reasons.
[14:33] Morgaine Dinova: Self*
[14:33] Jonathan Yap: It might be nice to be able to get the script usage window to display in 1.4
[14:33] Merov Linden: I'm using SG2.0 right now and it's spiffy (Mac)
[14:34] Morgaine Dinova: I'd like to try a standalone compile incase the speed problem is something to do with the new library deps. But I hear that standalone builld is troublesome currently.
[14:34] Merov Linden: Jonathan: you're asking to backport a SG2.0 feature to the 1.4 code base?
[14:35] Ardy Lay: Somebody just added several thousand scripts to this region.
[14:35] Robin Cornelius: Morgain, i've had standalone goinging since day 2, but no media
[14:35] Robin Cornelius grumbles about qtwebkit
[14:35] Jonathan Yap: Yes. I have heard people asking for that--perhaps it's too difficult though, or will turn up in other viewers
[14:35] Merov Linden: other viewers can back port from the published SG2.0 code
[14:36] Merov Linden: nothing prevents them to
[14:36] Techwolf Lupindo: I've been trying to fix the last of the standlone bugs. Some patches are in some jira, some mine.
[14:36] Ardy Lay: Using Viewer 2.0 is like herding 12 Jack Russel Terriers. Too much jumping and bouncing around.
[14:36] Morgaine Dinova: Could I ask why it's no longer possible to delete glib and gobject .so's from the prebuilt directory? It objects violently, and insists to have them there. The only option is to slam the platform's .so's on top of the prebuilt ones.
[14:36] Techwolf Lupindo: The biggest obstickale to my local system and everyone else for that matter is the missing llqtwebit files.
[14:37] Robin Cornelius: Merov, do we have an ETA for that, if its going to be a while i can probably cook something that works out of the source we already have
[14:37] Morgaine Dinova: (In 1.x you could just delete them, along with a pile of others)
[14:38] Merov Linden: that being: llqtwebkit?
[14:38] Robin Cornelius: yes
[14:38] Robin Cornelius: Morgaine, is it doing apr_dso_load() on them i wonder?
[14:38] Robin Cornelius: gstreamer?
[14:39] Merov Linden: I know that the media team is working on cleaning up their act wrt their posted GPL code
[14:39] Morgaine Dinova: Robin: no way, one doesn't dlopen() glib and gobject
[14:39] Merov Linden: don't know the ETA
[14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me tempted to see if there is a way to diable llqtwebkit/qtwebkit/webkit during the build and just forget anywebkit functions.
[14:39] Merov Linden: but it's hot on their list
[14:40] Thickbrick Sleaford: BTW, I saw an anouncment the other day the QtWebKit will start having releases independant of Qt - that probably means easier to build.
[14:40] Robin Cornelius: ok, i can wait, the missing API is pretty trival and just some keyboard/mouse events, i could hotwire them and get it working 99% but if its soon i wion't bother
[14:40] Merov Linden: k
[14:40] Techwolf Lupindo: llqtwebkit and qtwebkit are two complety different packages.
[14:40] Robin Cornelius hints that llmonroe on #opensl just _might_ have been on the media team ;-)
[14:40] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes, but vanilla QtWebKit still needs some patches, right?
[14:41] Merov Linden: Techwolf: true, llqtwebkit is our wrapper around it
[14:41] Morgaine Dinova: There's no protection on MoaP-caused local executions currently anyway, so best to not run with MoaP enabled until something'is done about security.
[14:41] Techwolf Lupindo: Thinkbrick, I have use sytem qtwebkit without issues on snow 1.x.
[14:41] Merov Linden: and Thickbrick is right too: we have patches to qtwebkit
[14:41] Robin Cornelius: merov, i patched llqtwebkit to work around those patches
[14:41] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
[14:42] Merov Linden: some pushed back to them but it'll take time for them to take them
[14:42] Merov Linden: so we'll need to post our qtwebkit hacks somewhere
[14:42] Robin Cornelius: so we could use distro qt4, the functionality loss is so minor no one has yet noticed, its a history prepend patch and one other i forget
[14:43] Techwolf Lupindo: The patches on qtwebkit are minor, but it request building the entire qt package and that can cause problems at its a huge and complex sytem. Just look at the gentoo QT ebuild to get a sence that there more then just running qmake.
[14:43] Robin Cornelius: Morgain, sandbox llqtwebkit in a chroot and connect via a tcp socket to the chroot, should be pretty safe ;-)
[14:43] Thickbrick Sleaford: Morgaine: since every face with a media URL on it goes through a capability before the viewer gets the URL, LL can have a killswitch for it. And apparently, they do.
[14:44] Ardy Lay: Isn't that an OS specific solution?
[14:44] Robin Cornelius: Ardy, run a linux box, specifcily for sandboxing llqtwebkit next to your windows/mac box ;-)
[14:44] Boroondas Gupte: runs on any OS that has chroots ;-)
[14:44] Jonathan Yap: What if the url is put through tinyurl or friends though?
[14:44] Morgaine Dinova: Robin: lemme quote about 1000 people in a recent exchange about chroot: "Chroot is not a security solution". And that included the inventor of chroot.
[14:45] Ardy Lay: Not a useful answer for many people. Remember who LL's target audience is.
[14:45] Boroondas Gupte: agreed
[14:45] Techwolf Lupindo: Joathan, the kill switch is global. It kills all url. It not set up as a filter.
[14:45] Jonathan Yap: Thanks Tech--that wasn't made clear at the media OH yesterday
[14:45] Merov Linden wonders if we should go back to the agenda... see people running to the next meeting...
[14:46] Morgaine Dinova: Merov+1
[14:46] Merov Linden: 2.0: there are a couple of interesting questions in the agenda
[14:46] Pixel Gausman: +1
[14:46] Merov Linden: patches: yes, I've been triaging a bunch and, if you have commit access, please go ahead and commit!
[14:47] Techwolf Lupindo: I think there is just one commiter here.
[14:47] Merov Linden: for those who don't, ask me if unassigned or ping me if assigned to me and I'm sitting idle on it
[14:48] Merov Linden: now: the 1.x to 2.0 ports
[14:48] Merov Linden: I think it's bettte to open separate issues
[14:48] Merov Linden: it signals to all who's working on what
[14:49] Techwolf Lupindo: Is there a way to flag a jira that has a patch ready for review by a commiter?
[14:49] Merov Linden: so we're not duplicating work
[14:49] Merov Linden: yes: patch attached
[14:49] Merov Linden: that's the flag I check for sure :)
[14:49] Robin Cornelius: Merov, so far we have been opening new jira's for things previously committed on 2.0 and marking them as duplicate with an approprate comment
[14:49] Robin Cornelius: committed on 1.X
[14:49] Merov Linden: I saw that and I approve of it
[14:49] Merov Linden: :)
[14:50] Boroondas Gupte: next subquestion: Should we still include the original issue IDs in contributions.txt, so that diff can be used to see what still needs to be ported?
[14:50] Techwolf Lupindo: Ok. I was wording about that due to I had to re-do or update a patch and re-submite.
[14:50] Merov Linden: I would say "yes, do not edit the contributions.txt unless you add something"
[14:51] Merov Linden: this is a way to acknowledge work anyway
[14:51] Thickbrick Sleaford: it also helps to quickly know "is this patch in there or not?"
[14:51] Merov Linden: and one could argue there's as much work on some stuff in writing the priginal patch and porting it
[14:51] Robin Cornelius: the old 1.x contrinutions are missing because 2.0 was forked off from a different point/before snowglobe so it has none of the previous contributions currently
[14:51] Merov Linden: so both are legitimate to acknowledge
[14:52] Robin Cornelius: so we can add in the old one that has been effectivly lost
[14:52] Merov Linden: oh that! you're right!
[14:52] Merov Linden: silly me
[14:52] Techwolf Lupindo: Whee...I'll have two entris for one patch of mine. lol
[14:52] Boroondas Gupte: :-P
[14:52] Merov Linden: yes, we should "merge" the original contribution.txt
[14:53] Robin Cornelius: the diff should show us whats missing and needs work
[14:53] Merov Linden: OK, I think I muddled the issue but I think I made the intent of contributions.txt clear :)
[14:54] Eddi Decosta: well, i need to go on aditi, for now sorry! but nice meeting ㋡
[14:54] Techwolf Lupindo: So if one got a patch accecpted and didn't get ported over, the oraingle contrube.txt entry plus the new entry for the porting work is ok?
[14:54] Ardy Lay: I don't think any of my small number of contributions carry over as I was just fiddling with little UI oddities, trying to get a feel for the codebase.
[14:55] Merov Linden: Techwolf: yes, you get 2 entries
[14:55] Robin Cornelius: even if something is not now/will not be in 2.0 does not mean the work was not done, there should still be a record in there
[14:56] Merov Linden: Ardy: in that case, I still feel the entry should be there, if nothing else, that siggnals that we "ported", even if nothing needed to be done
[14:56] Merov Linden: +1 Robin
[14:56] Merov Linden: as a dev, I know that some of my work will be wiped out by others later
[14:57] Merov Linden: that's life in an organic medium like "code"
[14:57] Merov Linden: OK, next: the missing "vendor" branch
[14:58] Techwolf Lupindo: (ot: what the hot key to select a grid from login on viwer 2.0?)
[14:58] Merov Linden rolls drum
[14:58] Merov Linden: yes, we will have a vendor branch
[14:58] Robin Cornelius: o/
[14:58] Jonathan Yap: ctrl shift G?
[14:58] Thickbrick Sleaford: Tech: probably Ctrl+Shift+G
[14:58] Thickbrick Sleaford: that's very good to hear!
[14:58] Techwolf Lupindo: That got it. thanks.
[14:59] Pixel Gausman: so explain vendor branch to the uninformed
[14:59] Techwolf Lupindo: vender branch?
[14:59] Robin Cornelius: native 2.0 code export
[14:59] Merov Linden: there was some confusion up and down and I need to confess I muddled the water with releasing only a SG2.0 one
[14:59] Merov Linden: that was really for expediency
[14:59] Merov Linden: but then, that turned into a bigger question
[15:00] Pixel Gausman: oh, you mean code matching the mainline viewer binaries?
[15:00] Merov Linden: that's cleared though now
[15:00] Merov Linden: right
[15:00] Pixel Gausman hugs Merov
[15:01] Thickbrick Sleaford: was there som edisagreement inside Linden on that, or was it just a matter of it falling between the cracks?
[15:01] Morgaine Dinova: Techwolf: with a bit of luck your blog post question will get answered then soon
[15:01] Merov Linden: so, life in 2.0 will be no different than life under 1.23
[15:01] Robin Cornelius: its good for snowglobe development to be able to diff against the stock code as well
[15:01] Merov Linden: or 1.x
[15:01] Pixel Gausman: that's awesome news.
[15:01] Merov Linden: Robin: big +1 a!
[15:02] Techwolf Lupindo returns and catches up on chat...
[15:02] Merov Linden: OK, there's one item left (7) and we're 3 min late
[15:03] Ardy Lay: I put 7 there as it answers a question that was asked in IRC.
[15:03] Thickbrick Sleaford: that makes the rest of question 6. irrelevant... Very good!
[15:03] Techwolf Lupindo: o/ LL actually came to there sences.
[15:03] Merov Linden: That quote from Q is correct in general
[15:03] Merov Linden: what is making problem with it?
[15:04] Ardy Lay: It would be nice to know that a problem we are working on is really out of our domain.
[15:04] Pixel Gausman: i need to tweet the good news abt viewer 2.0 source.
[15:05] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm replying to that without context (so possibly irreleavnt), but I think it's best to comment somehing like that on the original pJIRA, so the patch submitter can try to address it.
[15:05] Morgaine Dinova: Why is it needed to trawl blog posts and OH transcripts to get an answer to simple questions like this? Just bizarre ...
[15:05] Merov Linden: Morgaine: I'll post something to opensource-dev later
[15:06] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Merov
[15:06] Merov Linden: actually, I should blog about it also but I'm waiting to have things cleaned up script wise before doing this
[15:06] Merov Linden: I'm still doing part of the process "manually" which sucks...
[15:07] Boroondas Gupte can imagine
[15:07] Morgaine Dinova: When you read answers to simple questions like Techwolf made on the blog to Dessie, and Carl replies in a way that obviously avoids the question, it starts a lot of people talking. And that doesn't help anyone.
[15:07] Merov Linden: I'd like 2 days of focused hacking just to finish them...
[15:07] Pixel Gausman: Merov: you've been doing a bang up job of holding the ship together recently.
[15:07] Merov Linden: no interruption!
[15:08] Merov Linden: I keep a Zen like attitude Pixel :)
[15:08] Aimee Linden: I think it was more that Carl was trying to be helpful without knowing the full context
[15:08] Merov Linden: That's where being French and used to people haggling on anything helps..
[15:08] Morgaine Dinova: haha
[15:09] Pixel Gausman: i keep a red-wine like attitude. .... and with that... it's time for a glass of Cab. Cheers, Hippos!
[15:09] Merov Linden: Cheers!
[15:09] Thickbrick Sleaford: lol. I can immagine being the public facing target for all the community grumpyness isn't fun.
[15:09] Merov Linden: time to go for me too
[15:09] Morgaine Dinova: TC Merov, and chin up :-)
[15:09] Morgaine Dinova: UXIG time
[15:10] Robin Cornelius: Back to more magnetic hedgehogs ;-(
[15:10] Jonathan Yap: Beta grid OH going on too
[15:10] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: a better more patient attitude wouldn't hurt
[15:10] Merov Linden: anyway, I don't held grudges
[15:10] Ardy Lay: "Damn the torpedos! Full ahead!" did work, after all. He only lost the one ship.
[15:10] Merov Linden: bad karma
[15:10] Thickbrick Sleaford: we'll try next time...
[15:10] Robin Cornelius: Merov, do you see *how* much coffee we drink ;-)
[15:11] Morgaine Dinova: TC all :-)
[15:11] Aimee Linden: bye!
[15:11] Techwolf Lupindo looks at the fridge full of Koolade.
[15:11] Merov Linden: bye!

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