Open Source Meeting/2010-05-27

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Agenda Thursday, 27 May 2010

  1. Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
  2. The future of Snowglobe 1.x
    • What features in 1.x not yet in 2.x are most important to move?
  3. SNOW-77/VWR-17711 (HTTP Map URL capability)
    • John Hurliman asked whether we could get SNOW-77_map_url_cap.diff committed - he intends to implement support for this on Opensim as soon as there's a viewer binary with this.
    • This will be more useful if it's included in the regular Viewer2.x as well. What does Merov (or other relevant Lindens) think about this?
  4. Your topic here!

If we run out of topics before the end of the meeting, we'll triage Snowglobe or Open Source specific Jira Issues from the list below.

  • Sorry about the [00:00] timestamps in the log. I didn't have that enabled, so had to fake it for the log wikifier.--Thickbrick Sleaford 23:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


[00:00] Merov Linden: Hi guys
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: salut Merov! ㋡
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: hi Merov
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: well taking the texture fetcher to os grid was an _experience_ it crashed and crashed and asserted and died
[00:00] Merov Linden: Salut Eddi
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: building the viewr is such a pain when trying to use newer boost or newer buils systems
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: happy to see you ㋡
[00:00] Merov Linden: Allez, on fait tout en français ajourd'hui, c'est fête... ;)
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: lol
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey merov
[00:00] Merov Linden: k, seriously, agenda:
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: avec un traducteur anglais, peut-être :p (with an English translator, perhaps: p)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: I gues I am not with the "in crowd" as I just build the viewer with what it builds well with.
[00:00] Merov Linden reminds me to ask Thickbrick how the Snowglobe translator ports goes
[00:00] Youri Ashton: bk
[00:00] Youri Ashton: heya merov
[00:00] Merov Linden: hi Youri
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: that is what im having to do as well ardy which is useing VS2005 and 1.39 boost libs
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: I haven't started yet... been suffering from ADD
[00:00] Youri Ashton: ADD? i have Asperger
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: Merov, i'm still backed up with some contract work, but i'm making progress and hopefully will be able to do some decent SG work soon
[00:00] Youri Ashton: hi rand
[00:00] Rand Linden: Howdy!
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey rand (hey edge)
[00:00] Merov Linden: Thanks for the update Robin and Thickbrick
[00:00] Aimee Linden checks Thickbrick's Carry Flag
[00:00] Merov Linden: so, 1. Weekly update
[00:00] Merov Linden: I've been working mostly on 1.x port
[00:00] Merov Linden: Updating as I go
[00:00] Merov Linden: Thanks Techwolf for the patches :)
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: aimee now that i can build the viewer i could help who ever is working on adding the build floater to the side bar
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: About that, the commit of the port of SNOW-297 doesn't build
[00:00] JIRA helper:
[00:00] Crash when clicking on resident profile link in in-world search
[00:00] Merov Linden: it's moving along, I hope it'd be faster but we're getting threr
[00:00] Youri Ashton: tech aint here yet
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: stable_sort doesn't like std::list
[00:00] Merov Linden: darn!
[00:00] Merov Linden: it builds on Windows...
[00:00] Merov Linden: at least, on my machine
[00:00] Merov Linden: I should hit the parabuild to get a clear reading
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: I haven't had time to test it yet, but there's a report of failed build on gcc 4.4
[00:00] Merov Linden: Hmmm... OK, I restarted the parabuild 2.0 builds for all platforms
[00:00] Merov Linden: we'll know better soon
[00:00] Merov Linden: if we have to roll back though, it's not a big change (1 line)
[00:00] Merov Linden: the rationale for the change was still holding up in the 2.0 code base though that's why I ported it
[00:00] Merov Linden: One thing I *need* to do and haven't had time to do yet is updating the 1.x bundles on the download page
[00:00] Youri Ashton: xstorm?
[00:00] Merov Linden: I haven't forgotten, just got burried in port and other things internally
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey pixel
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: ok
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: pixel you ever get yours to build?
[00:00] PixelProphet Lane: Hey Wolf
[00:00] PixelProphet Lane: No
[00:00] Merov Linden: k, that's it for my update since Tuesday
[00:00] Merov Linden: next: 2.: the future of 1.x
[00:00] Youri Ashton: take a seat rand, aimee wont bite (only sit ontop of your head on worst) :p
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: Merov, what do you know about folders conflict between 1.XX and 2.XX cause when i install the viewer i have some happy bugs on xml files in my 2.0 ㋡
[00:00] Aimee Linden: lol
[00:00] Merov Linden: I haven't looked into this Eddi
[00:00] Oz Linden: The issue here is how to expend effort - which viewer source branches should get our collective attention?
[00:00] Oz Linden: It's fairly clear that Linden Lab doesn't have the resources to actively maintain both Snowglobe 1.x and 2.x
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: eddi there are extra folders in 2.x that are not in 1.x and that might be where you xml issues are comeing from
[00:00] Merov Linden: true
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: ok, cause if you see i need to re-install the viewer 2.0 cause some thing in panel prefrence is trunkated ㋡
[00:00] Merov Linden: what I've been doing is provide back end support for building and maintaing the trees up
[00:00] Merov Linden: so that the community can work on those
[00:00] Oz Linden: I'd like to fairly quickly get to the point where all our new work is happening on the 2.x branch. That said, I understand that might leave behind things that the Snowglobe user/dev base wants. What I'd like to know is... what needs to happen to make that choice that most people can be happy with?
[00:00] Trendone Engineer: will snowglobe use the HTTP textures and if so will not some users around the world have problems with that ?
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: ok right thanks ㋡
[00:00] Youri Ashton: sorry guys, i have to run
[00:00] Youri Ashton: friend needs me
[00:00] Youri Ashton: bye bye :)
[00:00] Merov Linden: bye Youri
[00:00] Rand Linden: bye
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: bye bye TYouri, and thanks for yesterday again lol
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: Youri*
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: i would still like to get the chat history back in the conversation window with the im histories
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: Trendone. I think http textures will be optional for the forseeable future (considering it's default to off in 2.0.1)
[00:00] Merov Linden: I can't talk for the whole community of course but I think getting SG 2.0 on par (feature wise) with SG 1.x is a prerequisite
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: i think its premeture to kill of 1.4 yet, we don't need to be putting much effort into keeping it there, but leave trunk for 1.4 open and let merovs autobuilder still run builds if we need an update, but agreeded we need to focus main effort on getting 2.0 to where people are happy with it
[00:00] Oz Linden: To be clear... I don't object to anyone else working on 1.x at all; I'd just like to know why so that we can tempt them to join us on 2.x
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: I guess it's the UI
[00:00] Merov Linden: then there are some specific 2.0 gripes that needs attention
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: i've got skinning working again in 2.0
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: Oz, why the 1.4 work fine again, for some resident ㋡
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: Personally, I don't see 2.0 as an option for daily use anytime soon - it requires some serious accesiblity work.
[00:00] Oz Linden: can we collectively make a list (over the next week or so,say?)
[00:00] Merov Linden: +1 on getting the list of minimal changes that would make Snowglobe contributors to switchto 2.0
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: oh hi Squirrel ㋡
[00:00] Nicky Perian: I like the way 2.0 handles groups but nothing else
[00:00] Squirrel Wood: Hai!
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: one thing that could go on that list is having the nearby chat maintain being actgive whe you click any where in the vier that is not needing text input
[00:00] Oz Linden: "nothing" is a pretty strong word, Nicky :-)
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey squirrel
[00:00] Merov Linden: you may have seen guys that viewer-external (2.0.2) has lots of changes addressing UI issues
[00:00] Squirrel Wood blames Aimee just cause she can ^^
[00:00] Nicky Perian: Ill look for other stuff to like
[00:00] Merov Linden: e.g. build tools more readily available
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Second Life 2.0.2 (205287) May 27 2010 05:37:54 (CommunityDeveloper)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Yeah, I use it.
[00:00] Aimee Linden: yup, s'what I'm here for!
[00:00] Nicky Gilderoy: Can't find much about it i like
[00:00] Ardy Lay: A little. Still is impeding me.
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: yeah Merov, i have tryed the 2.0.2 , but my viewer close without warning and without crash loguer one time per day, and i dont know why .. honestly its not stable ..
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: Is viewer-external still hiding where to upload textures? ;-)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: It's getting better though.
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: looks like i might need to get viewer-external for Viwer2 and work on building it
[00:00] Oz Linden: I confess to being ignorant - I'm not only new to SL in general, I've actually never run a 1.x viewer
[00:00] Nicky Perian: inventory file upload
[00:00] Jonathan Yap: Have the deadlock work Robin has done made it into the v2 sources yet?
[00:00] Rand Linden: Hey all, sorry to butt in, but the reason I dropped by (at Merov's suggestion) was to let you know about some work I've been doing on the wiki re: XUI information:
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Control-U to upload textures works.
[00:00] Squirrel Wood: I hope you do get all the crash logs the logger sends whenever SL decides it wants to crash when the map window is open(ed) ^^
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: Noticed that, Rand. Great stuff!
[00:00] Rand Linden: I added some internal info, organized and edited content, etc.
[00:00] Merov Linden: Boroondas: I don't think that upload texture code change
[00:00] Rand Linden: thanks!
[00:00] Merov Linden: changed
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: not the code, the UI
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: Thanks Rand!
[00:00] Rand Linden: Still needs work, but perhaps a better framework to work with, I hope...
[00:00] Aimee Linden: o/ for documentation :)
[00:00] Merov Linden forgot to add Rand to the agenda!
[00:00] Merov Linden: thanks for coming Rand
[00:00] Rand Linden: np Merov...
[00:00] Nicky Gilderoy: thanks rand, i will give it a look
[00:00] Rand Linden: Unfort. I have to leave in a few mins... so I wanted to just pipe up
[00:00] Merov Linden: and thanks for sharing that doc: I've been telling those guys it was coming for several meetings now :)
[00:00] Oz Linden: np, Rand - that looks very useful
[00:00] Rand Linden: Great..feel free to send requests for anything specific
[00:00] Merov Linden: your pipe very much appreciated :)
[00:00] Rand Linden: :-)
[00:00] Oz Linden: What would be a good way for us to develop a list? Perhaps a page linked to the agenda of our next meeting?
[00:00] Oz Linden: everyone put on thier thoughts?
[00:00] Merov Linden: I'd like an opensource-dev thread
[00:00] Merov Linden: not incompatible with wiki though
[00:00] Merov Linden: eventually, wiki lists need to be turned in actionnable JIRA though
[00:00] Oz Linden: that works for me too. I think it would be useful to have a list pulled together to frame discussion, but I'm happy to pull that out of a thread
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: aren't there already meta-issues on pJIRA about this? (well, no dev-specific ones, but still)
[00:00] Merov Linden: I bet that "detachable slide panel" will get there as soon as we start the discussion :)
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: yes there is a meta jira concerning source code issues
[00:00] Oz Linden: yeah, I just get the sense that pjira items might be to granular to get the high level priorities sorted out
[00:00] Ardy Lay: BOOL:SidebarCameraMovement is in viewer-external now
[00:00] Ardy Lay: No UI element for it that I have found yet.
[00:00] Rand Linden: sorry, i have to take off...thx everyone!
[00:00] Ardy Lay: But it does work. I needed that.
[00:00] Merov Linden: cheers Rand
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: tc, Rand
[00:00] Rand Linden: adios!!
[00:00] Oz Linden: Ok... I just wanted to float this here to get people thinking about it.
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar < need to look into starting to build the newest version of viewer-external if there is a V@ of it
[00:00] Oz Linden: I will kick off a list thread for this
[00:00] Merov Linden: cool! thanks Oz
[00:00] Merov Linden: ok, point 3. SNOW-77
[00:00] JIRA helper:
[00:00] S3 map shows main grid map even when on the beta grid
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: osgrid already has a (partial, only zoom level 1 so far) tile repository:
[00:00] Merov Linden: I'll look into this wrt 2.0 port
[00:00] Merov Linden: I *think* there has been some changes in that code in viewer-external
[00:00] Merov Linden: I want to do things in a way that won't conflict with that too much
[00:00] Merov Linden: IIRC, 2.0.2 added code to get a root URL from resources
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh
[00:00] Merov Linden: cheap hack (no server change) and not incompatible with SNOW-77 (cap)
[00:00] Merov Linden: sort of a fall back way though
[00:00] Merov Linden: cap is better I think and that's the favored solution from OpenSim folks
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: oh would this work for a fallback on beta?
[00:00] Merov Linden: er? a fall back on beta?
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: excuse me ignorance, but what are "resources"?
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: beta grid has no map server
[00:00] Merov Linden: a right, yes, I think so
[00:00] Merov Linden: by resources, I meant some local file (I think it's in pref actually)
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: ah, ok
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: like the debug setting SNOW-77 ads for the fallback URL?
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh, I see viewer-external has :
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: std::string imageurl = gSavedSettings.getString("MapServerURL") + llformat("map-%d-%d-%d-objects.jpg", level, grid_x, grid_y);
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: so basicall the same thing
[00:00] Merov Linden: Ha! I thought I saw that going through :)
[00:00] Merov Linden: yes, that's it, thanks Thickbrick
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: so how do we move with this?
[00:00] Merov Linden: saw, in conclusion on SNOW-77: yes, I can do that in 1.4 and port to 2.0 doing some cautious merge with viewer-external changes
[00:00] Merov Linden: I'll just be cautious with the change in viewer-external: it's not big really, just need to use the same code so that I avoid bizarre conflicts later
[00:00] Merov Linden: k, looks like we're at the end of this short agenda :)
[00:00] Ardy Lay:
[00:00] JIRA helper: [#SVC-5598] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.
[00:00] Merov Linden: I wanted to ask about SL7B
[00:00] Ardy Lay: I wanna poke somebody for that one, HARD.
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Server folks say it's not their problem.
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: well we have not had the offical word of our position back yet, but we probably should think a little harder on what we can build at SL7B to form our "stand"
[00:00] Merov Linden looks into the JIRA
[00:00] Ardy Lay: All the land I work on is affected by that.
[00:00] Oz Linden: Robin... what word are we waiting for?
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: Ardy yeah i have noticed that ㋡
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: they don't let you know you actually have a spot at SL7B untill almost the last minute before building time
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: i vote on the jira for now ㋡
[00:00] Oz Linden: Let's assume that we have a spot. If for some reason we don't get one, I'll raise a stink
[00:00] Ardy Lay: And for your amusement:
[00:00] JIRA helper: [#VWR-19558] FJ and Howard are Women
[00:00] Merov Linden: well, I was unaware of that JIRA and that's not code I know
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: hehe i would have assumed we would get one ;-), but yes we need to figure out a little more what we can put up info wise etc
[00:00] Merov Linden: however, since Maestro says it's viewer side, that means someone here could provide a patch :)
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: lol Ardy ㋡
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Merov, would be lovely to have it fixed before Viewer 2.1 hits the download page.
[00:00] Merov Linden: I saw that one on Howard :)
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford giggles at -19558
[00:00] Merov Linden: I actually saw Howard with a female shape in one of our internal meetings :)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Yeah, shapes are failing to load more than usual lately
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: Merov, about 19558 i have observed on this when you work a new hair created in the inventory your usual look download after that..
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: worn*
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: Can i propose that we come up with some ideas for Tuesdays slot for SL7B info/layout etc
[00:00] Merov Linden: Eddi: add that as a comment to the JIRA so that the dev knows about it
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: we can bash some through now as well of cause ;-) but if anyone needs to think about things
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: BTW, 1.40 also enables http upload of assets... so I think it should also improve things with baking
[00:00] Oz Linden: I've started on trying to make a giant snowglobe
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: right, if the comment can help ㋡
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: Thickbrick started on one as well
[00:00] Oz Linden: but I'm a pretty seriously novice builder...
[00:00] Merov Linden: well, you have to start somewhere Oz
[00:00] Merov Linden: :)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: I made a trinket but it has lots of prims.
[00:00] Merov Linden: I'm still a novice when it comes to building IW
[00:00] Oz Linden: yeah... building things is actually in my new-hire checklist
[00:00] Merov Linden: I know, that's about the extend of my skills (that plus my own bear...)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Hehe
[00:00] Merov Linden: I really lack the patience to build I need to admit
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: Ardy's is much better than mine
[00:00] Oz Linden: My idea was to make a transparent globe with the Snowglobe and SL logos rotating on the inside (and floating white specs of course), with a world map outline on the outside
[00:00] Oz Linden: having trouble with how transparency works though.
[00:00] Oz Linden: need to find a tutor on that
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: Cool Ardy
[00:00] Jonathan Yap: Open up the globe so you can apply a texture on the inside then close it up again
[00:00] PixelProphet Lane: You need to make it hollow
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: comment added for now ㋡
[00:00] Merov Linden: checks Torley's video Oz: always my best resource for quick targetted tips on building
[00:00] PixelProphet Lane: Then add the texture inside
[00:00] Saijanai Kuhn wonders how the NDAed, nevertobementioned, *eshes will work with this kind of thing
[00:00] Oz Linden: texture inside... hadn't thought of that...
[00:00] Saijanai Kuhn: its how toon-shaded avatars get made
[00:00] Merov Linden: whohoo!
[00:00] PixelProphet Lane: Of course you can just use 2 spheres, one inside the other
[00:00] Merov Linden: rotating cube! that's smart :)
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: nice work ardy ㋡
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Merov, search your inventory for "Snowglobe".
[00:00] Ardy Lay: It should be in there.
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: Ardy, can i have a copy as well please?
[00:00] Oz Linden: well, if I can get my glass outer sphere right, I'll get in touch with you guys for one of these cool things for the inside
[00:00] Saijanai Kuhn: anyone remember this character?
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: ty
[00:00] Jonathan Yap: Note the trick Ardy has used to put an outline around his globe
[00:00] Ardy Lay: The inside out sphere was added by a friend.
[00:00] Ardy Lay: He then gave the assembly back to me to share.
[00:00] Merov Linden: neat really
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: it looks pretty good - I think it conveys the 3d intent of the logo
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: We are also going to need some nice "slides" with info about snowglobe etc.. and a nice way to display these
[00:00] Jonathan Yap: You might want to have something to click on that will take you to the downloads page
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: i started some back in my opensource park, which i believe Oz walked through the other day, but the snowglobe content is not great on my display and needs changing
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: yes Jonathan and also a click to join group thing
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Take a copy
[00:00] Ardy Lay: done
[00:00] Oz Linden: I did - I want to talk with you about expanding your park
[00:00] Oz Linden: great concept
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: thanks
[00:00] Saijanai Kuhn wonders if there's an easy way to add a "cross-hatch" reflection to give it the feel of depth
[00:00] Merov Linden: Robin: may be start a thread on opensource-dev, there are lots of creative folks lurking in there with ideas
[00:00] Jonathan Yap: How about a shadow Ardy?
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: sure, i've got one other person who wants to help who is a designer, she did the groundwork and trees etc for my park
[00:00] Saijanai Kuhn: could tie both to the angle of the sun
[00:00] Ardy Lay: Hm... feel free. I am not much of a creator.
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: try to get her here for Tuesday as well
[00:00] Merov Linden: cool
[00:00] Saijanai Kuhn: you need to get a copy of Dahlia Trimbles rotating tesseract to put in there instead of just a cube
[00:00] Merov Linden: about the organization, should we take turn to be on the booth?
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: i think so, but i suspect it will be more be there if you can
[00:00] Merov Linden: talk/presentation about Snowglobe?
[00:00] Oz Linden: do we know what times should be covered?
[00:00] Ardy Lay: I won't be able to participate in the presentation as I have another to deal with so feel free to take any of my idea here that you may find useful.
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: certainly if i'm at work, i can idle there all day greeting etc
[00:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: the 2010viewr-external branch is the same as viewer 2 just the source files right?
[00:00] Merov Linden: I will definitely be there, but not 24/7 :)
[00:00] Oz Linden: I've got a distressing amount of booth duty in my past
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: last time i remember i was in amsterdam for that ;-)
[00:00] Ardy Lay: I have one of "The Seven Wonders of Second Life" to work on.
[00:00] Merov Linden: Wolfpup: viewer-external is the export of the live dev 2.0.2 viewer-public branch
[00:00] Boroondas Gupte: When will it be? I'm away for most, maybe even all for June :-
[00:00] Ardy Lay: I think that's what it was called. Got a shot note to show up from the people I work with.
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: i think the approach opensim used is fine, they had a nice stand, posters etc and just had someone there to talk to people, more of a meet and greet for them as eveyone was already "aware of them" but i think thats a good model
[00:00] Merov Linden doing a time check
[00:00] Oz Linden: /agrees
[00:00] Oz Linden has to pack up to catch a train
[00:00] Merov Linden: oops: 3 min to go and both Oz amd me have a hard stop at 3pm
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: Merov : jira is going nuts in irc <jira> [BUILD] Failed Build for trunk (3386) on Linux
[00:00] Merov Linden: aaagh
[00:00] Oz Linden: bye all
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: and Darwin
[00:00] Robin Cornelius: By Oz thanks!
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: bye bye Oz ㋡
[00:00] Eddi Decosta: have a great weekend ㋡
[00:00] Merov Linden sees the log
[00:00] Merov Linden: ok, I'll work on that ASAP :/
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: Merov, about SNOW-77, do you intend to review it for 1.x?
[00:00] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: yes
[00:00] Merov Linden: will do
[00:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: thanks!
[00:00] Merov Linden: c u guys!

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