Open Source Meeting/2010-07-06

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[13:53] WolfPup Lowenhar: nicky you can use the plain snowglobe titel as well
[13:53] Boroondas Gupte: hi all
[13:53] Ardy Lay: Hi
[13:53] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey boroondas
[13:58] Boroondas Gupte: no agenda for today?
[13:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: have not even looked at it
[13:58] Ardy Lay: Boroondas, did you het any snapshots of the Snowglobe display at SL7B?
[13:58] Boroondas Gupte: no
[13:59] Boroondas Gupte: I only saw it on the last day it was on display, one week after SL7B
[13:59] Boroondas Gupte: couldn't make it before, because I was on vaccation
[13:59] Cummere Mayo: i hope no one has issues wiht my outift? i didnt have time to change
[14:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: as far as im concerned it is ok cummere
[14:00] Boroondas Gupte: Just don't catch a cold ;-)
[14:01] Cummere Mayo: good. thank you
[14:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey merov
[14:01] Ardy Lay: Hi Merov
[14:01] Cummere Mayo: merove i have an odd question
[14:01] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi merov.
[14:01] Merov Linden: Hi guys
[14:01] Techwolf Lupindo: Looks like Oz is playing with his house again.
[14:02] Merov Linden: Oz is playing house?
[14:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: yep i see that as well
[14:02] Techwolf Lupindo: Office Hour HUD is an hour off too.....
[14:02] Merov Linden: Cummere: what's your question?
[14:02] Cummere Mayo: merov will the linden emails work for a linden for say a month after they are terminated? or do they disapear immediately?
[14:02] Merov Linden: they disappear very rapidly
[14:02] Merov Linden: within days
[14:02] Cummere Mayo: damn :(
[14:03] Merov Linden: I haven't prepared an agenda for today
[14:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: we were just talking about that befor you showed up merov :)
[14:04] Merov Linden: the big action item for me is merge of viewer-external to the 2.x trunk
[14:04] Ardy Lay: That should be fun.
[14:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: better get out the asprin
[14:04] Merov Linden: I suppose you all saw the branch I created and that it now builds
[14:04] Merov Linden: after a couple of coughs...
[14:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: and the alkaseltzer
[14:05] Merov Linden: well, its not all fun but not too bad either
[14:05] Merov Linden: very mechanical
[14:05] Merov Linden: the good thing is I've been involved in pretty much every single commits in 2.0 so I have a clue on how to resolve conflicts
[14:05] Merov Linden: that helps
[14:05] Ardy Lay: Watch out for that MultiAttach stuff. It has done bad things to inventory.
[14:06] WolfPup Lowenhar: it will be interesting to see if the water issue stays fixed after the you bring over the 2.1 code
[14:06] Merov Linden: One thing I might do though that may disturb things is to incremental merges to the trunk
[14:06] Merov Linden: just to make things easier to track with viewer-external and also to make my job a tad easier
[14:07] Boroondas Gupte: if you created a new branch, wouldn't it be saver to merge trunk (incrementally, if you want) into that?
[14:07] Merov Linden: that *might* create trunk unstability (we know that some intermediate rev in viewer-external are unstable so the relevant intermediate merge will also be)
[14:08] Oz Linden: shouts: perl upstairs on lz
[14:08] Boroondas Gupte: :-P
[14:08] Merov Linden: Borrondas: you're right but then I'll have to merge that branch...
[14:08] Boroondas Gupte: hu?
[14:08] Merov Linden: I so wish I bit the bullet and use hg when doing the rease
[14:08] Merov Linden: rebase
[14:09] Merov Linden: that makes merging so much better
[14:09] Boroondas Gupte: Maybe I'm thinking to git-ish (or hg-ish, if you want) but once the new branch has stabilized, can't that just be made the new trunk without any further merging?
[14:10] Merov Linden: assuming there'll be no commit whatsoever in the interim, you're right Boroondas
[14:10] Merov Linden: but if there's no commit, there's not much point in creating another branch... except for cleaniness?
[14:11] Boroondas Gupte: true
[14:11] Merov Linden: well, what would you prefer guys? I don't have a religion
[14:11] Merov Linden: on this
[14:12] Merov Linden: I'm just trying not to create extra work for myself but, if it makes things harder for you, I shouldn't merge directly on trunk
[14:12] Boroondas Gupte: well, if I know what trunk revisions to avoid for stable building, that's not a big issue
[14:13] Ardy Lay: Well, I am not a comitter and my contributions have been trivial so I guess I have no opinion.
[14:13] WolfPup Lowenhar: i would think since your the one haveing to do all the major work you could do what is easiest on you
[14:14] Aleric Inglewood: Why not use hg instead of svn?
[14:14] Merov Linden: one silly thing beside the branching (svn admin work) is the parabuild admin stuff I'll have to dupe
[14:14] Merov Linden: it's almost more headache than svn...
[14:15] Merov Linden: Aleric: we need to move to hg, I agree
[14:15] Merov Linden: I can't do it right now as I need to change the export scripts though to use hg instead of svn
[14:15] Merov Linden: and also hange the opensource build scripts
[14:16] Merov Linden: it's not a massive amount of work but it's a set of fragile scripts and will require a couple of days of work
[14:17] WolfPup Lowenhar: i guess when you change i will have to get a new program to acess the file server for updates then right?
[14:17] Merov Linden: I'm also hesitating doing that right before syncing everything together and releasings Snowglobe 2.0
[14:18] Merov Linden: Yes, it'll be a change for everyone, hg is easy to use though if you just use it to check out the code, not much different from svn
[14:18] Merov Linden: it gets a bit diferent when developping with the "commit then push" commands
[14:19] Merov Linden: In the long run, I prefer hg
[14:19] Boroondas Gupte: well, I guess only commiters will be able to push, but could we use pull requests instead of patches?
[14:19] Merov Linden: it's vastly superior for merges and history management
[14:20] Merov Linden: Boroondas: that's interesting, yes, hg uses very much a "pull philosophy"
[14:20] Aleric Inglewood: The difference is that with hg and git you 'push' pointers around: every commit is local and creates an unique 'pointer' (compare UUID). If you 'push' or 'pull' you make those pointers (and all data necessary for it) available to others (or from others). One pointer represents a complete snapshot of a source tree.
[14:20] Cummere Mayo: ((pulling someone that wants to try and understand what i /me pats beside her for kri to set.
[14:20] Cummere Mayo: *what we do
[14:21] Cummere Mayo: okay so really only patchers and committers need to worry about the differances between svn and hg?
[14:21] Merov Linden: anyhow, I was thinking doing the move to hg at a less busy time
[14:21] Merov Linden: when the whole trunk is huming along and viewer-external and trunk are synced
[14:22] Thickbrick Sleaford: since Snowglobe is destined to always be merging from viewer-external, I think it makes sense to move to hg sooner rather than later.
[14:23] Merov Linden: /me thinks
[14:23] Thickbrick Sleaford: on the other hand, I have no idea how much work it would take...
[14:24] Merov Linden: well, I do, that's what makes me hesitates :D
[14:24] Boroondas Gupte: is there any part of that work where we could help?
[14:24] Aleric Inglewood: Really, yout should get a collegue for this work. Seems you got more to do than it possible to handle for one person :/ ... but I guess LL isn't likely to hire new people (or reassign them to help you)....
[14:24] Merov Linden: especially knowing that only me can do it (mostly internal, "LL side of the fence" scripts)
[14:25] Cummere Mayo: i take it its allot of work merov?
[14:25] Merov Linden: there are a couple of great folks internally who can help me mind you
[14:25] Merov Linden: CG to start with, others too
[14:25] Merov Linden: but they've been slammed recently
[14:26] Merov Linden: and I know that if I hit a snag, the whole open source update thing can go dark for while...
[14:26] Merov Linden: with all you my friends kicking my butt till I get things in order...
[14:27] Merov Linden: tell you what: I want to move to hg as much (may be even more) tahn you
[14:27] Nicky Perian: gotta go rl
[14:28] Merov Linden: so I'll chat with CG and see if we can get something together, if it would be a better strategy right now when doing the viewer-external syncing
[14:29] Cummere Mayo: tc nicky
[14:29] Boroondas Gupte: You might want to consult BOS, too.
[14:29] Techwolf Lupindo: /me returns
[14:29] Merov Linden: I guess I should hit the list also to make sure no one wll scream at a change of tool
[14:29] Techwolf Lupindo: current viewer-externial is b0rked for standalone. Even looking at the commnets in the new cmake file says it is not finished.
[14:29] Merov Linden: Boroondas: I *know* what bos is gonna say... no point to ask a question... :)
[14:29] Thickbrick Sleaford: it might help to point out tortoiseHG to prevent that screaming
[14:30] Merov Linden: funy but that's one I never got to get working on my ebd (Tortoisehg)
[14:30] Merov Linden: I'm doing all hg stuff under command line
[14:30] Aleric Inglewood: yay!
[14:31] Merov Linden: /me is typing like Techwolf today..
[14:31] Boroondas Gupte: cli ftw!
[14:31] Techwolf Lupindo: /me facepaws
[14:32] Aleric Inglewood: I spend two days, yesterday and today, to set up a dual boot with (reinstalled) debian and windows XP professional.... <smiley intentionally left out>
[14:32] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
[14:32] Boroondas Gupte: you had to re-install debian?
[14:32] Merov Linden: that sounds like a fun way to spend your 4th of July weekend :)
[14:32] Techwolf Lupindo: What distro is the build farm used that is currently used to build snowglobe?
[14:32] Cummere Mayo: /me laughs and gives tech a hug
[14:33] Merov Linden: not that you care about 4th of july p
[14:33] Aleric Inglewood: yes, there is no way to get it to work on two different harddisks.. so I had to cut my 320 GB harddisk into two.
[14:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: Techowlf, I think Debian Lenny (gcc 4.1)
[14:33] Ardy Lay: /me hands Aleric a hacksaw.
[14:33] Ardy Lay: Have at it, bub.
[14:33] Techwolf Lupindo: debian lenny has gcc 4.3 now.
[14:34] Cummere Mayo: hacksaw? I think shotgun would be in order
[14:34] Aleric Inglewood: 4.3.2
[14:34] Merov Linden: Techwolf: I think we're still using Etch actually
[14:34] Aleric Inglewood: arghghgh
[14:34] Merov Linden: not 100% positive
[14:34] Techwolf Lupindo: Is that older?
[14:34] Merov Linden: let me check
[14:34] Aleric Inglewood: That would be ridiculous!
[14:34] Aleric Inglewood: Are you sure you're not still using a.out instead of ELF?
[14:34] Cummere Mayo: o.O
[14:34] Techwolf Lupindo: /me lol
[14:34] Thickbrick Sleaford: Etch has gcc 4.1.1
[14:35] Thickbrick Sleaford:
[14:35] Techwolf Lupindo: I know cmake 2.6.2 is not aviable for lenny
[14:35] Merov Linden: yeap, ridiculous but it's etch
[14:35] Techwolf Lupindo: /me looks up Etch...
[14:36] Thickbrick Sleaford: Etch is oldstable, i.e. the one before the current stable, which is already pretty old.
[14:36] Aleric Inglewood: /me looks up security exploits in etch that weren't fixed cause it isn't supported anymore.
[14:36] Merov Linden: the build machines are basically the last ones to be upgraded
[14:37] Merov Linden: I'll ask CG what's the plan here
[14:37] Merov Linden: I'm sure there's one, I just haven't followed super closely
[14:37] Techwolf Lupindo: etch (oldstable) <--!!!
[14:38] Boroondas Gupte: well, as long as the viewer can be built with more up-to-date environment, too, I don't care
[14:38] Techwolf Lupindo: I know ther is code in snowglobe to check for cmake 2.6.2 or higher...
[14:38] Aleric Inglewood: We will make sure of that :p
[14:38] Boroondas Gupte: (will post a patch for libpng-1.4.x compatibility after this meeting)
[14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: From the changeset at
[14:39] Merov Linden: OK, that's 2 action items for me to check with CG
[14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: Boroondas, I forgot about that patch...i'be been using it for a while with no prolblems/.
[14:40] Boroondas Gupte: oh, you made one, too?
[14:40] Cummere Mayo: /me giggles. "should i try and tp him here morov?"
[14:40] Merov Linden: For 2.0, I'm waiting for Robin to come back from vacation
[14:40] Techwolf Lupindo: Yes. I coded it up nearly the same day libpng got upgraded and been using it on all the TPVs I got.
[14:40] Merov Linden: to finish SNOW-669
[14:40] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-669] Port of SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:41] Techwolf Lupindo: "Follow these steps on - very specifically - a Ubuntu Dapper installation,


if you (i.e. Linden Lab!) desire the widest possible compatibility of


the resulting binary."
[14:41] Merov Linden: He should be back Wednesday I think
[14:41] Techwolf Lupindo: ack...sorry
[14:42] Cummere Mayo: what was that tech?
[14:42] Techwolf Lupindo: That was from
[14:43] Merov Linden: I see a new bug has been file on standalone linux build
[14:43] Merov Linden: SNOW-735
[14:43] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-735] make[2]: *** No rule to make target `../newview/vivox-runtime/i686-linux/', needed by `llcommon/'. Stop.
[14:43] Cummere Mayo: brb
[14:43] Techwolf Lupindo: Merov, feel free to assign that one to me.
[14:43] Merov Linden: ok Tech :)
[14:43] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think he was actually building viewer-external there
[14:44] Techwolf Lupindo: I've been doing a lot of prebuild build system buiding latley.
[14:44] Techwolf Lupindo: I just got done submitting a job app. I now have the rest of day to work on bugs.
[14:44] Techwolf Lupindo: and patches
[14:45] Boroondas Gupte: :-)
[14:46] WolfPup Lowenhar: /me has the day off from RL work and just wishes he could do builds faster
[14:46] Techwolf Lupindo: ccache is your friend.
[14:46] Cummere Mayo: back
[14:46] WolfPup Lowenhar: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
[14:46] Merov Linden: ok, well, from now till Thursday, my goal is to get trunk synced up with viewer-external, I'll see with CG if moving to hg at the same time is a good idea
[14:46] Techwolf Lupindo: grifter at a sim I help take care of.
[14:47] Cummere Mayo: oka merov. got any new windows bug jiras you need me to look at?
[14:47] Ardy Lay: grifter ...
[14:47] Merov Linden: Cummere: not any right in my mind right now
[14:48] Cummere Mayo: im about to just close a couple of those from two weeks ago that the reporters never answered
[14:48] Merov Linden: please do :)
[14:48] Merov Linden: Reproing bugs is very important, often 50% of the work of fixing a bug
[14:48] Merov Linden: so we do appreaciate your help Cummere :)
[14:48] WolfPup Lowenhar: is there any thing i could help with merov?
[14:48] Cummere Mayo: okay ill try and get those closed this week then. if they cant be bothered to get back and i cant repo them *shrugs*
[14:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: make sure to comment that they should open when they add more info
[14:49] Cummere Mayo: i do thick :)
[14:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: some people take closing bugs as NMI to mean "go away"
[14:49] Boroondas Gupte: um, better resolve them instead of closing
[14:49] Boroondas Gupte: closing indicates a final solution
[14:49] Cummere Mayo: i havent been active in the jira the last year but i do still have the hang of it.
[14:49] Cummere Mayo: some fo these were already resolved nmi bor
[14:50] Cummere Mayo: and not responded to in weeks and in one case months now
[14:50] Merov Linden: about helping: reviewing the bugs assigned to "Snwoglobe myserious future{ (166 of them) is always welcome
[14:50] Merov Linden: it's a lot of work to narrow them down often
[14:52] Merov Linden: there's also quite a bit of wiki gardening to do
[14:52] Merov Linden: something I haven't been doing much lately so I'm sure lots of things are out of date in there
[14:53] Thickbrick Sleaford: Merov, about that...
[14:53] Thickbrick Sleaford: it's ok to to link the 1.4 builds on the wiki as soon as they are posted to sldev-commits, right?
[14:53] Merov Linden: yeap
[14:54] WolfPup Lowenhar: well i see that three of the mestrious fetures are meta issues i created to try and help sort where the issues are OS wise
[14:54] Merov Linden: what 's posted to sldev-commits is public
[14:54] Thickbrick Sleaford: I also think we should be updating the linked 2.0 build to the ltest one more often - we won't know about bugs unless people use it.
[14:54] Merov Linden: I need to create nre target revs on JIRA
[14:54] Thickbrick Sleaford: and it's already marked "Test build" (well, it's not very clear, I guess)
[14:55] Merov Linden: so we can start riaging what we'll do for the next iteration
[14:55] WolfPup Lowenhar: snow 660-663 are os related meta issues concerning building the code
[14:55] Boroondas Gupte: Can someone give me a quick update of what happened the last 5 weeks? I already know we switched IRC network, but not much more ...
[14:56] WolfPup Lowenhar: boroondas we now have a stable branch of the snowglobe v2
[14:56] Merov Linden: look at the svn log Boroondas :)
[14:56] Merov Linden: but yes, what Wolfpu said
[14:56] Thickbrick Sleaford: we also have Rob's Replacement to pester (Oz Linden)
[14:57] Cummere Mayo: ill try and find time to start sorting though the windows bugs and requests merov but i might not get to it till the end of the month,
[14:57] WolfPup Lowenhar: /lolo thickbrick
[14:57] Merov Linden: we pushed on SG2.0 quite hard, reducing the bug count from 50+ to 2 then branches
[14:57] Merov Linden: branched
[14:57] Cummere Mayo: but ill start resolving and closing those i havent heard back on that have been holding us up
[14:57] Merov Linden: now I'm syncing trunk to viewer-external
[14:57] Boroondas Gupte: ok
[14:58] Merov Linden: as fast as I can (though moving to hg might reduce my cruising speed, may be for the better in the end)
[14:58] Merov Linden: on other news, *lots* of things happen at LL in the past 5 weeks but I don't think I need to comment on any of those...
[14:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: cummere leave snow 660-663 open as those are meta issues to help track other issues by OS when building the code
[14:59] Techwolf Lupindo: back..what I missed?
[14:59] WolfPup Lowenhar: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::* tech
[14:59] Aleric Inglewood: Tech: did you bite him?
[14:59] Cummere Mayo: i never close or resolve a meta unless told to by a linden o.O
[14:59] Techwolf Lupindo: Aleric, temped to at times.
[15:00] Cummere Mayo: im more talking abotu ones like snow 516
[15:00] Merov Linden: Tech, you look like you could swallow Aleric in one bite :)
[15:00] Aleric Inglewood: or your head
[15:00] Merov Linden: I haven't closed them butpushed them to future as all the linked issues were alos pushed to future
[15:01] Techwolf Lupindo: Merov, naaa...maybe jsut the head. But I know a few dragon that could. :-)
[15:01] Merov Linden: that's a scary thought
[15:01] Aleric Inglewood: Techwolf is my bodyguard :)
[15:01] Merov Linden: k, we reached 3pm in a quiet meeting today
[15:01] Cummere Mayo: i think im gonna just for now reresolve 516 and consider it a non issue. ive tried to contact free several times...
[15:02] Merov Linden: may be you guys in Europe are cheering your teams a bit too much tonight :)
[15:02] Aleric Inglewood: I hate succer
[15:02] Merov Linden: /me just saw Holland beat Uruguay
[15:02] Boroondas Gupte: the end of the match was fun :-P
[15:02] Merov Linden: I thought it was still called Football in your half of the planet?
[15:03] Aleric Inglewood: voetbal
[15:03] Cummere Mayo: merov since free still hasnt responded mind if i resolve it cannot reproduce?
[15:03] Boroondas Gupte: Fussball (or Fußball, outside of Switzerland)
[15:03] Merov Linden: Cummere: make it so
[15:03] Thickbrick Sleaford: My neighbors were cheering very loudly during the game today. Got me thinking about the news article about this SA guy who killed his neighbor for playing the vuvuzela too loudly during games.
[15:03] Thickbrick Sleaford: surely a justifiable himicide
[15:04] Techwolf Lupindo: Has that "vuvuzela" team lost yet in the cup?
[15:04] Merov Linden: you can spot the non-US citizen folks these days at the office: those are the ones looking at the game online :)
[15:04] Ardy Lay: I don't care much for the game myself and I find the behavior of the fans in the stadiums keep me form ever forming an interest in the game they so enthusiastically interfere with.
[15:04] Cummere Mayo: /me has shifty eyes. "you mean us non us ones dont?"
[15:05] Cummere Mayo: *non nonus
[15:05] Techwolf Lupindo: The US team is out of the race, so I don't care much for it now.
[15:05] Cummere Mayo: yeah they screwed up bad *sniffs*
[15:05] Aleric Inglewood: I hate it because you are FORCED to watch it, or worse, to listen to it. No matter where you go.
[15:05] Ardy Lay: The idiot-horn wielders do nothing but interfere with the game. What's the point?
[15:05] Merov Linden: I meant: not citizen of the United States
[15:05] Thickbrick Sleaford: Cummere, SNOW-516 is already resolved NMI, and I think we should probably leave it that way... it's kind of a random bug, so it *might* still be out there.
[15:05] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-516] Viewer is frozen when I login after some minute.
[15:05] Kri Winsmore: Frankly..I am attempting to not be amused now *MY 2 cents*
[15:05] Aleric Inglewood: I can't even swim in the swimmingpool anymore: loud speakers with a screaming soccer asshole.
[15:06] Techwolf Lupindo: I need to get some train horns for the hulegans.
[15:06] Boroondas Gupte:
[15:07] Boroondas Gupte: (also see the hover-tip)
[15:07] Techwolf Lupindo: So when a friend of mine gets one of those niebors, pumped about 200 plus pouncs of air though the train horn when he hits the vuvuvzenlu would cure him/her really quickly.
[15:08] Cummere Mayo: i see you beat me to changing the one on snow 558 merov. and yes tried on xp and 7
[15:08] Merov Linden: on SNOW-516: there's little value keeping open bugs we can't repro like that one, especially when the reporter goes silent
[15:08] Cummere Mayo: though on xp i have developed an opposite bug. i cant get out of that screen without trouble
[15:08] Techwolf Lupindo: Merov, can you dig into the LL system and found out when the last time the reported logged into SL?
[15:09] Merov Linden: a good bug base is one that allow the devs to focus on the important issues, too many floating unclear bugs is counter productive in that respect
[15:09] Techwolf Lupindo: reporter that is
[15:09] Merov Linden: Techwolf: that's an idea
[15:09] Cummere Mayo: yeah unless im the one suffering them merov. *giggles* then its important they get fixed :P
[15:09] Cummere Mayo: even if im the only one!
[15:10] Techwolf Lupindo: Let me see if I can hack that info....
[15:10] Cummere Mayo: i would like to know something though, before i reopen a closed bug...
[15:10] Merov Linden: k, I need to go for today
[15:10] Merov Linden: thanks for coming guys and see you Thursday :)
[15:10] Cummere Mayo: has anyone else had issues with crashes destroying the settings file in sg 2.0 + in windows 7?
[15:11] WolfPup Lowenhar: merov it looks like snow-165 might only be affecting older viewer versions
[15:11] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-165] Prims being invisible
[15:11] Techwolf Lupindo: Found it. Free Portal last long in was 7-5-2010
[15:11] Techwolf Lupindo: loong=login
[15:11] Boroondas Gupte: please specify your date format :-P
[15:12] Aleric Inglewood: Oh, Mouse World (SL Disney land) is closing in a week... they couldnt pay the rent anymore :(
[15:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: since I got a new graphics card and can now set my draw distance and details much higher, I see a lot more of SNOW-165 (on sg 1.4)
[15:12] Cummere Mayo: is that july 5th or may 7th?
[15:12] Techwolf Lupindo: Date format is "screwed up" in the SL client. ;-)
[15:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: we should all move to iso format
[15:12] Aleric Inglewood: I'm going to have a last look...
[15:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: Aleric, before you go...
[15:12] WolfPup Lowenhar: i can goto ultra mode with my system and and do not realy see it ax max draw
[15:13] Techwolf Lupindo: *poof*
[15:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh, too late
[15:13] Melfina Marshdevil: sooo whats up all :P
[15:13] Boroondas Gupte: now that's an interesitng last name ...
[15:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: I was jsut wondering about that... I've seen some emerald people with that trick before
[15:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: using utf-8 trickery?
[15:14] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey boroondas you should see my alts last mane
[15:14] WolfPup Lowenhar: name*
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: how do you get rid of your last name like that?
[15:15] Melfina Marshdevil: hax
[15:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: and.. ?
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: hacks?
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: okay....
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: ol
[15:15] Melfina Marshdevil: new line in the group title
[15:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: ah
[15:15] Melfina Marshdevil: _/nLastName STRING <3
[15:16] Boroondas Gupte: lol :-P
[15:16] Thickbrick Sleaford: I thought that was fixed a while ago
[15:16] Melfina Marshdevil: it is fixed
[15:16] Melfina Marshdevil: but there are some groups with the tag
[15:16] Melfina Marshdevil: well only two exist
[15:16] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh
[15:16] Cummere Mayo: ah
[15:16] Melfina Marshdevil: Vox and Virtual Alchemy
[15:17] Cummere Mayo: i think we should resove 165 as nmi?
[15:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: it still is hapenning sometimes
[15:17] Cummere Mayo: its not been touched since jan and its three+ versions old?
[15:17] Cummere Mayo: on 1.4 and 2.0 thick?
[15:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: 1.4. Not sure if the cause is the RenderMaxNodeSize thing (fixed in 2.0, right?) or somehting else
[15:18] Cummere Mayo: hmm can you comment on that then and ill leave it alone?
[15:18] Thickbrick Sleaford: I see the case where the prims disappear, but you still see their outline when editing them from time to time
[15:18] Thickbrick Sleaford: zooming way out and back or teleporting fixes it
[15:19] WolfPup Lowenhar: it might have been in the rendering pipeline and could have been inadvertnaly fixed when the water rendering was fixed as im on the most current build and do not see it
[15:19] WolfPup Lowenhar: Snowglobe 2.0.1 (3471) Jul 6 2010 14:57:08 (Snowglobe Test Build)
[15:19] Thickbrick Sleaford: try rezzing a lot of sculpties
[15:20] Thickbrick Sleaford: it usually triggers it
[15:20] Thickbrick Sleaford: or at least something that looks like it
[15:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: The problem is that RenderMaxNodeSize is an arbitrary limit for the number of vertices (?) in a "node"
[15:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: and the division into nodes is pretty arbitrary too,
[15:21] WolfPup Lowenhar: well wouldnt the railings from oz's place triger it?
[15:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: So when you have a node with a lot of vertices, some stuff won't render.
[15:21] WolfPup Lowenhar: as they are sculpties
[15:21] Kri Winsmore: Thank you for having me..however..I have a mansion to rezz. Tootles :)
[15:22] Cummere Mayo: got it. so what should we do with the jira then?
[15:22] WolfPup Lowenhar: tc kri
[15:22] Kri Winsmore: Thanks
[15:22] Kri Winsmore: bibi now
[15:22] Cummere Mayo: take care kri. and dont sex mythoes up too much in that mansion
[15:22] Cummere Mayo: meh too late
[15:22] WolfPup Lowenhar: and i can see the railings on oz's place from here just fine
[15:22] Thickbrick Sleaford: I rezzed 320 sculpted phys fish in Hippo Hollow yesterday, and that trigerred it nicely
[15:23] Thickbrick Sleaford: anyway, that cutoff should be rewritten to reduce LOD instead of just cut off redering of that node, Ithink.
[15:23] WolfPup Lowenhar: ok thick then lest go over there now and see if it will triget with that on my build dome thisafternoon
[15:23] Cummere Mayo: okay, can you put all that info on the ira please thick?
[15:23] Cummere Mayo: *jira
[15:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'll try - the thing is that I think there are other bugs that look like that too
[15:24] Ardy Lay: Some prim skirts partially vanish.
[15:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: sculpted?
[15:25] Ardy Lay: I don't know. Wasn't my skirt.
[15:25] Cummere Mayo: might be this should be made meta then?
[15:25] Cummere Mayo: and we try and seperate them out?
[15:25] WolfPup Lowenhar: thick are those fish you had copy/transmod?
[15:26] Ardy Lay: Anne stoppe wearing it because the front was vanishing making her look like she was in the wrong place. It's a PG region.
[15:26] Thickbrick Sleaford: instant lag...
[15:27] Techwolf Lupindo: What jira number for this?
[15:27] Ardy Lay: Turn off selected outline drawing. THat's a hog.
[15:27] Cummere Mayo: 165
[15:28] Techwolf Lupindo: Oh that cute...i selected all the fish and some show as root and other show as child prim.
[15:28] Cummere Mayo: so far none are going invisible on me
[15:28] Ardy Lay: Yeah, some are individuals, some are in linksets.
[15:28] Thickbrick Sleaford: meh, now I don't see any missing prims (aside from fish that hasn't gotten an ObjectUpdate yet)
[15:29] Techwolf Lupindo: I see no missing fish.
[15:29] Cummere Mayo: but some show as a huge object others are individuals
[15:29] Thickbrick Sleaford: well.. it IS random
[15:29] WolfPup Lowenhar: i see them all as well and i have moved my cam way out and orbiting it
[15:29] Thickbrick Sleaford: yeah, I couldn't link them all
[15:30] Techwolf Lupindo: I have flycam and could not get them to disapeard unless they go beyound my draw distance.
[15:30] Cummere Mayo: im on sg 2.0
[15:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: the thing is that having lots of sculpts in view can sometime cause non-sculpted prims to disappear
[15:31] Thickbrick Sleaford: any of you are using a non-default value for RenderMaxNodeSize?
[15:31] Boroondas Gupte: techwolf, is there already a jira issue for libpng14?
[15:31] Thickbrick Sleaford: any of you are using a non-default value for RenderMaxNodeSize?
[15:32] WolfPup Lowenhar: what is default?
[15:32] Thickbrick Sleaford: 8196
[15:32] WolfPup Lowenhar: mine is at 8192
[15:33] WolfPup Lowenhar: and i have never touched it
[15:33] Ardy Lay: Hehe. Oops. Mine is 81920
[15:33] Ardy Lay: I don't remember doing that.
[15:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
[15:33] Ardy Lay: But I am sure it was me that did it.
[15:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: *8192
[15:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: 8192 is the correct value
[15:34] Thickbrick Sleaford: I can't get anything to disappear now
[15:34] Cummere Mayo: im not either thick. *Shrugs*
[15:35] WolfPup Lowenhar: thick my drakelet is heavely sculpted
[15:35] Thickbrick Sleaford: NUMBER=20
[15:35] WolfPup Lowenhar: plus has flexi
[15:35] Fish Rezzer - Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:35] Fish Rezzer - Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:36] Fish Rezzer - Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:36] Fish Rezzer - Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:36] Thickbrick Sleaford: NUMBER=20
[15:37] WolfPup Lowenhar: dang all those fish and you still have not realy killed my FPS
[15:37] Thickbrick Sleaford: meh, never mind. I guess it's possible that the reason for the disappearing prims is not RenderMaxNodeSize-related.
[15:37] Thickbrick Sleaford: NUMBER=0
[15:37] Ardy Lay: Hasn't touched mine either.
[15:37] Cummere Mayo: mine dropped by like a fraction of a frame
[15:37] Techwolf Lupindo: all those fish didn't bother my client either.
[15:37] Ardy Lay: Well, maybe a little.
[15:37] Cummere Mayo: if that
[15:38] Thickbrick Sleaford: they do clog your bandwidth, though.
[15:38] Boroondas Gupte: well, prim hair is much more to render than a little fish swarm
[15:38] Ardy Lay: It fluctuates enough it's hard to tell. Maybe dropped me from 31 to 30 or 29
[15:38] Thickbrick Sleaford: alpha is the fps-killer
[15:38] WolfPup Lowenhar: im cruseing along at 17FPS and bearly useing and band
[15:38] Techwolf Lupindo: 36 fps here
[15:38] Cummere Mayo: um 42 here
[15:39] WolfPup Lowenhar: well i do have about 20 other windows open
[15:39] Ardy Lay: I tend to disable LOD and push up everything except draw distance.
[15:39] Techwolf Lupindo: /me counts.
[15:39] Ardy Lay: I kill imposters and water reflections.
[15:40] Techwolf Lupindo: 27 windows, not counting tabs in firefox.
[15:40] WolfPup Lowenhar: tech i was not counting the windows and convos open in sl or the tabs in IE
[15:41] Ardy Lay: Switching to "recommended settings" doesn't really affect frame rate right now. Might in a crowd.
[15:41] Cummere Mayo: okay well i need to go for now guys
[15:41] Cummere Mayo: take care
[15:41] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you
[15:42] Ardy Lay: I am severely disappointed in the rendering performance of viewer-external.
[15:42] Ardy Lay: It's way slower and very erratic.
[15:42] Thickbrick Sleaford: I thought they did some improvments over 2.0
[15:42] Ardy Lay: Not for me.
[15:43] Ardy Lay: I sure se NO improvement at all. I think it's actually worse.
[15:44] Ardy Lay: Then there is the :party line" I am getting from Lindens that "Residents want SL to run on Intel embedded graphics and that's what we are working towards."
[15:46] Thickbrick Sleaford: Boroondas, you asked about things that happened in the last few weeks...
[15:47] Thickbrick Sleaford: Oz Linden attached a new sim to the west of here (Hippo Hollow)
[15:47] Thickbrick Sleaford: It's supposed ot be a group-only sandbox and and some parcels for different TPVs, I think
[15:47] WolfPup Lowenhar: yep it a good testing area for open sourcers
[15:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: the group is SL Open Source Contributors
[15:48] WolfPup Lowenhar: the sandbox is set to 4 hours
[15:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm not sure what criteria he used when inviting people to that group
[15:48] WolfPup Lowenhar: i think oz would have to send her an invite
[15:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: possibly a little too exclusive
[15:48] Boroondas Gupte: hmm ... yet another group ...
[15:49] WolfPup Lowenhar: wat you talking about im maxed out here
[15:49] Ardy Lay: It's a group being used for what SL groups were created for: Land Management.
[15:50] Ardy Lay: They suck as a replacement for IRC.
[15:50] Boroondas Gupte: SL groups weren't created for a single purpose, that's why there are so many.
[15:51] Ardy Lay: There are more SL Groups with active members than there are active residents in SL.
[15:51] WolfPup Lowenhar: might want to have oz talk to vektor about copying the holler over to beta so could test issues over there as well
[15:51] Ardy Lay: That's insanity.
[15:52] Boroondas Gupte: You want to grant rights on objects (but not all your objects)? You need a group. You want to grant rights on land? You need a group. You want a communication channel for a specific purpose? Use a group .... if these things were discouplet, LL could save lots of ressources, I think.
[15:52] Ardy Lay: I am in 16 groups.
[15:53] WolfPup Lowenhar: im maxed out @ 25
[15:53] Ardy Lay: Yes, the bulk of the weight of groups is in land and object rights management. That is why they are limited to 25.
[15:54] Ardy Lay: Think for a moment what the simulator has to do when you create or manipulate a prim. It has to dig through your group privlidges.
[15:54] WolfPup Lowenhar: axctualy 26 if you count the none or 'null' group
[15:55] Ardy Lay: I doubt that one adds any work to the simulators. :-)
[15:55] Thickbrick Sleaford: yeah, it's pretty crazy mixing access managment with chat
[15:55] Thickbrick Sleaford: there's a lot of caching going on, or rezzing a prim would take minutes
[15:56] Thickbrick Sleaford: but that causes a lot of other weirdnesses
[15:56] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you people, I'm off to do some work
[15:57] Ardy Lay: I have stood two avatars beside each other, one with a single group granting building privlidges, the other with 25 groups, one of which grants building privlidges, and had a build-off. The one in a single group wins every time on a loaded simulator. Very un-scientific, I know, but the only thing I can think of to check against.
[15:57] Boroondas Gupte: "JIRA and SLDev Fanclub" seems quite dead. I guess that'll be the one to throw out next.
[15:57] Ardy Lay: When they moved to a public sandbox, both got the same delays.
[15:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: just got an interesting affet for one snow issue
[15:59] Ardy Lay: Group chat has an interesting archtitectural issue.
[16:00] Boroondas Gupte: It would be nice if groups could be merged (if, say, all owners agree). That'd reduce the number a bit. Abadoning a group in favor of another is unpopular as you have to try to take all the members with you.
[16:00] Ardy Lay: Seems the message services do a message fork for each and every message.
[16:00] Boroondas Gupte: what's a message fork?
[16:01] Ardy Lay: Kinda like packet replication but up the ISO stack a ways.
[16:01] Boroondas Gupte: ew
[16:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: i just switched to full screen from a window and not i have what looks like a negitive
[16:01] Ardy Lay: What version?
[16:02] Ardy Lay: You know LL is wanting to eliminate full-screen mode.
[16:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: Snowglobe 2.0.1 (3471) Jul 6 2010 14:57:08 (Snowglobe Test Build)
Release Notes

You are at 238574.0, 244754.0, 26.6 in Hippotropolis located at (
Second Life Server
Release Notes

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (2800 MHz)
Memory: 2046 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 32-bit (Build 7600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 8500 GT/PCI/SSE2
[16:02] Ardy Lay: Immersionists are not where the big-bucks is, I guess.
[16:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: and sorry for the chat blast
[16:03] Ardy Lay: Yeah, the first line would have been sufficient. ;-)
[16:03] Boroondas Gupte: I'm an immersionist, I think, but I prefer windowed.
[16:03] WolfPup Lowenhar: the issue is snow-14
[16:03] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-14] Entering FullScreen makes rendering very dark/black. Relog corrects problem.
[16:03] Ardy Lay: Yeah, try that with Viewer 2.1 Beta built by LL.
[16:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: would like full screen for some things but normaly im multi tasking and have several windows open
[16:04] Ardy Lay: I don't use full-screen myself but know people that do.

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