Open Source Meeting/2010-07-08

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Agenda Thursday, 08 July 2010

  1. Many links in the Source_downloads page still result in 404 or 403 errors (marked in red).
    1. Is it possible to regenerate the old files, or should we just link the latest files from the Snowglobe 1.4 trunk for all 1.23 and SG1.x versions?
    2. There are still people who build and maintain versions older than 1.23. would the files from above work for those as well?
    3. See relevant jira issues: SNOW-604 and WEB-2044

If we run out of topics before the end of the meeting, we'll triage Snowglobe or Open Source specific Jira Issues from the list below.

Jira Issues

  1. After discussion, r3349 was reverted. Do these still need discussion (e.g. for viewer-external)?:
    1. SNOW-649 Changeset 3349 added unit test to llplugin but forgot LL_TESTS, resulting in a build failure in lltut.cpp
    2. SNOW-650 Tries to build pulseaudio when pulseaudio not found.
    3. SNOW-651 Standalone build failure r3349, cmake error on SLPlugin
    4. SNOW-654 Bulding of integration_tests when not needed
    5. SNOW-658 Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
    6. SNOW-619 (Robin Cornelius)
    7. SNOW-713 Make libllcommon shared for SLPlugin + plugins on 1.4
    8. SNOW-596 Ready to commit (Aleric Inglewood)
    9. SNOW-593 idem
  2. Unscheduled SNOW issues triage: would be good to go with the community through those and decide for some what we should take immediately (2.0 or 1.4) or later.

If you think an issue warrants a deeper discussion, please add it as topic to one of the agendas above.


[13:59] Robin Cornelius: Wolf yes, i saw that when sorting my inbox earlier and stared it for later attention
[13:59] Robin Cornelius: Hey Aimee
[13:59] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey boroondas
[13:59] Aimee Linden: hi
[13:59] Latif Khalifa: hey Merov :)
[14:00] Quarterback Orcenhall: hello all
[14:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey merov
[14:00] Merov Linden: hello
[14:00] Robin Cornelius: Hi Merov
[14:00] Merov Linden: My! Full house today...
[14:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: yes it is merov
[14:01] Quarterback Orcenhall: hi Bronson
[14:01] Henri Beauchamp: /me waves in greetings.
[14:01] Merov Linden: k, it's 2pm so, let
[14:01] Latif Khalifa: hey Henri
[14:01] Merov Linden: let's start
[14:02] Merov Linden: I see that someone updated the Agenda
[14:02] Merov Linden:
[14:02] Merov Linden: so, let's start with that
[14:03] Merov Linden: the infamous download issue
[14:03] Merov Linden: yes, I need to refresh those
[14:03] Merov Linden: I can recreate some of them but not all of them
[14:04] Merov Linden: i.e. 1.23 and after but none of the branches prior to that
[14:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: did LL do some house keeping on old files maybe?
[14:04] Merov Linden: would be possible (everything is possible...) but would require an inordinate amount of work to build those old branches
[14:05] Henri Beauchamp: What about simply redoing a v1.23 repository from the matest v1.23.5 sources ?
[14:05] Henri Beauchamp: +latest
[14:05] Merov Linden: Wolfpup: yes, somewhat, there's a script that obsoletes and cleans up stuff on S3 that are older than 3 months
[14:06] Merov Linden: this has been changed recently (last month) after complaints (since it has been hitting folks internally as well...)
[14:06] Latif Khalifa: having broken downloads page for sources is... erm... less than professional
[14:06] Merov Linden: but for our old branches (1.22 and before) it's gone
[14:06] Techwolf Lupindo: How did 1.23.5 stay on S3 for so long? I remember there was no updates for a year due to 2.0 close source.
[14:07] Latif Khalifa: sources for old releases need to be kept forever
[14:07] Merov Linden: it was rebuilt on a regular basis
[14:07] Henri Beauchamp: Merov, about v1.23, did you remember that email I sent to you a while ago about the broken KDU in the slviewer-linux-libs-viewer-rc-frozen- archive ?...
[14:07] Merov Linden: the repo are still available IIRC, the bundles (tar and zip) are not
[14:07] Latif Khalifa: you cannot build without artwork and libs
[14:08] Merov Linden: Henri: I recall
[14:08] Robin Cornelius: i've certainly got various old zip/tar files around and i am sure between us we can probably find a lot of them, from more than one source for some confidence in their integritry
[14:08] Henri Beauchamp: I got all the v1.23.5 files for Linux...
[14:08] Merov Linden: Latif: correct but those are super stable (artwork in particular prior 2.0)
[14:10] Merov Linden: OK, so, on that action item, I know about it and I will get to it in the next few days
[14:10] Merov Linden: which is possible now that I have a hope on the viewer-external merge front
[14:11] Merov Linden: I'm just asking for mercy... aahem... patience...
[14:11] WolfPup Lowenhar: lol merov
[14:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: sorry I'm late... can I ask what the action item is?
[14:11] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey thick
[14:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: (regenrate or use the ones from 1.4?)
[14:11] Merov Linden: the action item is: kick Merov's butt once more to fix that darn download link table
[14:12] Henri Beauchamp: /me looks at his steel toed boots and ponders...
[14:12] Merov Linden: action by Merov: fix this for the recent branches, take the old branches out
[14:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think that the ones from SG 1.4.0 will work for any 1.23 version as well (?)
[14:12] Latif Khalifa: hmm
[14:13] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: yes, it *should* work
[14:13] Latif Khalifa: you want to remove downloads for viewers before 1.23?
[14:13] Merov Linden: that's the same internal branch anyway
[14:13] Henri Beauchamp: Merov, I also got all the archives for v1.18, v1.19, v1.21, v1.22 if you want...
[14:13] Latif Khalifa: Henri, for all OS-es?
[14:13] Merov Linden: Latif: if I can't rebuild them (and the artwork/lib bundles), I think we shoulf
[14:13] Merov Linden: should
[14:14] Latif Khalifa: Merov, I think removing the sources would be a mistake
[14:14] Henri Beauchamp: Linux
[14:14] Henri Beauchamp: But can be used to build for other OSes too
[14:14] Latif Khalifa: artwork will work for all oses
[14:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: are there any major differences between the 1.22 and 1.23 archives?
[14:15] Henri Beauchamp: Got the libs for v1.19 too
[14:15] Henri Beauchamp: Windows libs
[14:15] Henri Beauchamp: yes, many diffs
[14:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: "libs" is actually some fonts and llkdu... neither of those changed recently.
[14:15] Aleric Inglewood: It's not neccessary to keep the old old archines on S3 (I assume that costs money), you could just make a single website somewhere.
[14:15] Merov Linden: Latif: the source tarballs are built using an export script that requires building from scratch on all platforms
[14:16] Merov Linden: the build system changed *a lot* since 1.22 and is changing again as we speak (moving from Parabuild to Teamcity)
[14:16] Merov Linden: updating and adapting all those build scripts for all those branches is lots of work
[14:16] Merov Linden: for little gain
[14:17] Latif Khalifa: well if you don't have the archive of old versions prepacked, leave the sources at least, it's invaluable at times
[14:17] Aleric Inglewood: Is SG 1.4 still rebuild automatically?
[14:17] Merov Linden: Aleric: my problem right now is not S3 or not, is rebuilding things that have been erased
[14:18] Aleric Inglewood: Merov: I understood this is the second time it got erased.
[14:18] Merov Linden: SG 1.4 is rebuilt on demand
[14:18] Henri Beauchamp: I can rebuild Linux builds for v1.18 to v1.23 if you want... Got automated building scripts...
[14:19] Merov Linden: Henri: you're not building the lib bundles, though, as Thickbrick said, there isn't much in them except kdu
[14:19] Merov Linden: I have a question for you folks
[14:20] Henri Beauchamp: I got the latest lib bundles for v1.23.
[14:20] Merov Linden: besides the "unprofessional" aspect of having broken links, what are those old tarballs good at for you?
[14:20] Merov Linden: /me has some ideas but would like to hear from folks
[14:21] Dzonatas Sol: I don't use any of them older then 1.4.x
[14:21] Boroondas Gupte: Neither me.
[14:21] Latif Khalifa: well I know that at least one TPV is building 1.18 -- Henri :)
[14:21] Latif Khalifa: the netbook edition ;)
[14:21] Aleric Inglewood: Henri: if you have any of the 'red' files from #Snowglobe_Releases_and_Release_Candidates (top down preferably) then please upload them with the exact same name to SNOW-604
[14:21] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-604] Files missing from server:,
[14:21] WolfPup Lowenhar: all im useing for 2.0
[14:22] Merov Linden: 1.18! ZOMG
[14:22] Latif Khalifa: or was it 1.19, one of those
[14:22] Merov Linden: I think the puppeteering code I did prior joining LL was based on 1.20
[14:22] Henri Beauchamp:
[14:22] Latif Khalifa: quite popular with integrated graphics
[14:22] Dzonatas Sol: Shouldn't the older versions fade due to security concerns?
[14:23] Merov Linden: the grid enforces mandatory updates at times
[14:23] Merov Linden: but that's pretty lax as a policy, especially for TPV
[14:23] Latif Khalifa: CoolViewer 1.19 is being kept up to date with the patches, hat off to Henri :)
[14:23] Aleric Inglewood: Merov: Also, we need an artwork download for 'SVN'. New users cannot make snowglobe 1.4 as it is, since there is no link to the artwork for that version.
[14:23] Techwolf Lupindo: Isn't 1.19 used for performance resons?
[14:23] Latif Khalifa: yes
[14:24] Henri Beauchamp: Yes, but I'll stop v1.19 support at the end of this yers
[14:24] Latif Khalifa: 1.19 does reasonably well on those intel motherboard chipsets
[14:24] Henri Beauchamp: +year
[14:24] Merov Linden: uh? it's in doc/asset_urls.txt, isn't it?
[14:24] Boroondas Gupte: Don't we have working links in current doc/asset_urls.txt?
[14:24] Henri Beauchamp: Roadmap:
[14:24] Nicky Perian: work for me
[14:24] Dzonatas Sol: I have automatic scripts to build old version of the libraries.
[14:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: we do, otherwise automated builds won't work.
[14:25] Nicky Perian: 1.4 links
[14:25] Merov Linden: yeap, I haven't built 1.4 from scratch in several weeks though
[14:25] Aleric Inglewood: Oh, ... well, I am overhauling (if that is correct English) the wiki regarding buiding the viewer (reading the wiki and trying it - fixing the wiki too)... The wiki tells people to go to the source download wiki page and download the artwork... There is no artwork for SVN there though :/
[14:25] Techwolf Lupindo: Would like the see the use of 1.19 on those Intel chips
[14:25] Ardy Lay: I use the provided script to fetch and unpack the bindles.
[14:26] Merov Linden: Aleric: I just updated the wiki with regard to that yesterday
[14:26] Thickbrick Sleaford: /me points to the link on the agenda page to doc/asset_urls.txt <== those urls work.
[14:26] Merov Linden: /me digs a link
[14:26] Aleric Inglewood: Merov: what page?
[14:26] Merov Linden: #Artwork_and_Library_Bundles
[14:27] Merov Linden: I added that paragraph about the bundles and libs
[14:27] Merov Linden: that wasn't documented anywhere, strangely enough
[14:27] Ardy Lay: is handy
[14:27] WolfPup Lowenhar: dang my net has the hickups
[14:28] Ardy Lay: I just tell people to run that after checkout completes.
[14:28] Merov Linden: I need to say I haven't tried it on Mac, only Windows
[14:28] Dzonatas Sol: Scripts and debs dated back to 1.18 :
[14:28] Aleric Inglewood: It is AMAZING how many pages there are on the wiki with DUPLICATED information about how to get/configure/compile the viewer :/ ....
[14:28] Aleric Inglewood: It's a mess
[14:29] Ardy Lay: Aleric, true
[14:29] Boroondas Gupte: indeed
[14:29] Nicky Perian: +5 aleric
[14:29] Aleric Inglewood: The page that I updated is
[14:29] Aleric Inglewood: When I'm done that should be a one-stop for compiling it under linux.
[14:29] Aleric Inglewood: but all the other pages will still be there, confusing people.
[14:29] Merov Linden: I suggest we all use those linked from
[14:30] WolfPup Lowenhar: i have done some work on
[14:30] Boroondas Gupte: should contain all relevant articles. We might be able to eliminate some after cleanup.
[14:30] Merov Linden: we need wiki gardening, and when I say "gardening" I mean weeding really...
[14:30] Aleric Inglewood: lol
[14:30] WolfPup Lowenhar: -*@ ROFL @*-
[14:30] Dzonatas Sol: not all linux's are the same anymore
[14:31] Nicky Perian: digital shreadder'
[14:31] Dzonatas Sol: linuxes... linii
[14:31] Henri Beauchamp: Compiling viewers for Windoze is a real pain in the <censored>...
[14:31] Merov Linden: there are so many pages... Poor Oz is trying to build Snowglobe since days and has been failing a 1000 times...
[14:31] Aleric Inglewood: strontgat?
[14:31] Merov Linden: at least we got his attention on updating the wiki...
[14:32] Boroondas Gupte: :-)
[14:32] WolfPup Lowenhar: tell me about it it takse me almost two hours to do a compile runn
[14:32] Merov Linden: the thing is that we all get confortable in a path and forget about the rest
[14:32] Henri Beauchamp: and 15 minutes for Linux, all automated...
[14:32] Merov Linden: it takes me 30 min to build from scratch, I could do it in my sleep on Mac and Windows at least
[14:33] Merov Linden: *but* only because I always use the same tools, tweaked commands, installed tools, etc...
[14:33] Robin Cornelius: *sigh* i keep telling you on debian its apt-get source snowglobe; cd snowglobe; dpkg-buildpackage ;-)
[14:33] Latif Khalifa: hahaha
[14:33] WolfPup Lowenhar: but are any of you working with a 5yr old system
[14:33] Merov Linden: too complicated... ;)
[14:34] Merov Linden: well, lets agree on documenting from and down
[14:34] Nicky Perian: k
[14:34] Henri Beauchamp: For me it's just typing cmake-SL... :-P
[14:34] Merov Linden: and lets document the easy way first
[14:34] Dzonatas Sol: MS started to update it's MSI functionality to be more debian like
[14:35] Merov Linden: lets keep the special cases at the end of each wiki page
[14:35] Robin Cornelius: documentation needs checking from clean systems as well so if you have virtual boxes or chroots you can use to verify thats great
[14:35] Merov Linden: I remember how confused I was the first time I tried to build the viewer, Dzonatas actually rescued me :)
[14:36] WolfPup Lowenhar: robin and ardy helped me out
[14:36] WolfPup Lowenhar: when i first started
[14:36] Robin Cornelius: the viewer is easy compared to the cycle of hate that is GTK on mingwg ;-/
[14:36] Robin Cornelius: recursive dependencies
[14:36] Latif Khalifa: lol
[14:36] Boroondas Gupte: easy way without special cases is here, I think:
[14:37] Merov Linden: webkit was horrendous to build also some years ago
[14:37] Robin Cornelius: one issue for windows as well is that there are clear differences between express VS and standard/pro that need to be recorded
[14:37] Merov Linden: /me remembers his time at OSAF
[14:37] Latif Khalifa: Robin, not to mention 2005/2008/2010 woes
[14:38] Opensource Obscure: we may remove mention to libboost-program-options-dev from
[14:38] Robin Cornelius: also dependning on your windows SDK you install you may see other random issues relating to various missing include files
[14:38] Latif Khalifa: and SxS fun
[14:38] Merov Linden: ok, I feel we shared a lot of stories and agree we all feel pain at times with regards to building, especially when helping new comers
[14:38] WolfPup Lowenhar: ya like winres.h
[14:38] Merov Linden: as it *is* important (vital even) for a FLOSS project to be relatively easy to build, lets agree to improve that darn wiki doc
[14:39] Aimee Linden: VS build instructions: "Format hard drive, install Linux"
[14:39] Nicky Perian: I think we should break from bug chasing and have a build and libraries only period
[14:39] Aimee Linden: (Or buy a Mac)
[14:39] Robin Cornelius: Buy a Mac, Format hard drive, install Linux??
[14:40] WolfPup Lowenhar: -*@ ROFL @*-
[14:40] Aimee Linden: that sounds a great alternative :D
[14:40] Merov Linden: Nicky: well, for folks well installed with a working config, it's asking lots from them
[14:40] Henri Beauchamp: And run Vitualbox with windows over it...
[14:40] Aimee Linden: that's what I intended to do when I got my first Mac, just never got past the first step
[14:41] Henri Beauchamp: Ok, juts uploaded the sources, "libraries" (Linux for all but v1.19 for which I also got Windows') and artwork archives for v1.23.5, v1.22.11, v1.19.0.5 on ... Let me know if you need more (got v1.21.6, v1.20.17, v1.18.4.3 as well).
[14:41] Dzonatas Sol: I'm waiting for the iBoard ... or iKeyboard
[14:41] Merov Linden: cool! thanks Henri!
[14:42] Merov Linden: k, we just spent the best part of the meeting on this
[14:42] Henri Beauchamp: Note to Merov: the v1.23.5 "libraries" tarball got the *working* KDU in it
[14:42] Merov Linden: merci Henri
[14:43] Merov Linden: OK, in the 20 or so minutes left, I'd like to talk about the viewer-external merge
[14:43] Merov Linden: I emailed the list 1 hour or so ago
[14:44] Merov Linden: the good news is: I have a working Snowglobe 2.1 merge, pretty much ready to commit
[14:44] Boroondas Gupte: /me waits for the bad news
[14:45] Merov Linden: the bad news is: it's *huge* and has the potential to break things for a bit (I tested only on Windows)
[14:45] Merov Linden: well, it's not an unexpected bad news as you've seen the daily commits on viewer-external
[14:45] Merov Linden: and have been building it (some of you at least)
[14:46] Robin Cornelius: have we branched in SVN already?
[14:46] Merov Linden: yup
[14:46] Boroondas Gupte: well, if it's only a bit, we can live with that, I guess
[14:46] WolfPup Lowenhar: robin yes there is a sg 2.0 branch that was done last friday
[14:46] Merov Linden: last time I did a big commit like that, I had to roll bacl remember?
[14:46] Boroondas Gupte: got used to fix more than "a bit" broken stuff back when 2.0 was dropped ;-)
[14:46] Dzonatas Sol: Does the new commit have the dae ready code?
[14:46] Merov Linden: that's why I'm announcing it before doing it...
[14:47] Merov Linden: the "dae ready coe"?
[14:47] Dzonatas Sol: collada
[14:47] Merov Linden: *code(
[14:47] Robin Cornelius: we have to do this at some point, as we are branched doing it in public should be better as at least we can all chip in to fight issues esp on other platforms
[14:47] Merov Linden: no, it's a merge from viewer-external to trunk
[14:48] Merov Linden: there's no collada code in viewer-external I think
[14:48] Merov Linden: Robin: thanks
[14:49] WolfPup Lowenhar: some one plaese post the log of this meeting as im missing a lot of it due to my net burbong
[14:49] Merov Linden: BTW Robin: welcome back :)
[14:49] Boroondas Gupte: will we have to re-address the issues listed at the end of the agenda page?
[14:49] Merov Linden: ready to chip on SNOW-669?
[14:49] JIRA-helper:
[#SNOW-669] Port of SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:49] Robin Cornelius: Yes thats going to be looked at soon
[14:49] Merov Linden: /me checks the end of the agenda page
[14:50] Boroondas Gupte: #Jira_Issues
[14:50] Thickbrick Sleaford: it's possible some of those were already fixed in viewer-external
[14:50] Boroondas Gupte: that's why I ask
[14:51] Boroondas Gupte: well, we'll see, I guess
[14:51] Merov Linden: well, we need to check them indeed
[14:51] Merov Linden: good oint
[14:51] Merov Linden: *point*
[14:51] Merov Linden: I haven't looked at those recently so I can't say
[14:52] Merov Linden: with some luck (of which we had little recently...) those have been addressed in viewer-public while coding 2.1
[14:53] Merov Linden: anyway, I'll check rapidly and see if there's something blocking a commit merge
[14:54] Merov Linden: some issues might still stay open after the commit merge though
[14:54] Merov Linden: I'll count on your guys to help me sort them out
[14:54] Boroondas Gupte: sure
[14:55] WolfPup Lowenhar: /me has nocked a couple off the snow mysterous future list with the help of felllow devs here
[14:56] Boroondas Gupte: btw., would it be possible to have two versions after the current one available for "Fix Version" on jira?
[14:56] Merov Linden: ok, we're 5 min from the end of the meeting
[14:56] Merov Linden: I'll need to stop at 3pm sharp (get my daughter from day camp)
[14:56] Ardy Lay: Still no blob mentioning the Beta installer update yesterday?
[14:56] Boroondas Gupte: that'd allow for some more planning than pushing everything to "mysterous future"
[14:56] Ardy Lay: blob ~= blog
[14:57] Merov Linden: we need to add new version and, generally speaking, clean up the versions in JIRA
[14:57] Robin Cornelius: ok i'm running now, catch up more over the next few days, see you all later
[14:57] Merov Linden: I discovered though recently that I lost my privileges to do so... don't know why... :(
[14:57] Latif Khalifa: laters Robin
[14:57] Boroondas Gupte: ew :-
[14:57] Dzonatas Sol: thank you for being here
[14:57] Merov Linden: yeah: ew...
[14:58] Dzonatas Sol: =)
[14:58] Thickbrick Sleaford: c u Robin
[14:58] Merov Linden: bye Robin
[14:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: she done gone
[14:58] Merov Linden: so I need to track who can help me with that now, then fix those lists of versions (affects and fix)
[14:59] Merov Linden: we need to put Snowglobe 2.1 in there, at least
[14:59] Techwolf Lupindo: 2.1 won't build on Linux. Unfinished code, look at the comments in cmake/gogglebreak.cmake.
[14:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: also, 1.3 is still listed under "unreleased versions"
[15:00] Boroondas Gupte: maybe we should make a checklist of what needs to be done at release time
[15:00] Boroondas Gupte: (on jira, wiki, etc)
[15:01] Thickbrick Sleaford: BTW, I updated the template page and release notes page for the 1.4 test build to the most recent build.
[15:01] Merov Linden: Boroondas: yes, I think there's an internal wiki on that, written by Robla back then
[15:01] Thickbrick Sleaford: template page = download links template.
[15:01] Merov Linden: thanks Thickbrick!
[15:01] Boroondas Gupte: ah ... could you copy that to the public wiki, so we don't have to start from scratch?
[15:02] Merov Linden: I have to find it first, if you think the public wiki is a mess, wait till you see the internal one...
[15:02] Boroondas Gupte: :-P
[15:02] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think having a link teplate for 2 builds (like we have for 1.x) would be easier than linking them in each page in the wiki.
[15:02] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: yes, we need to do that
[15:03] Merov Linden: I didn't do it as I rushed to push 2.0 at the time and had only one link to add
[15:03] Merov Linden: now, with 2.0 and 2.x trunk, we're back in the same situation
[15:04] Merov Linden: aaaggh!.... I need to run get my kid!.... (3:04pm)
[15:04] Opensource Obscure: bye Merov!
[15:04] Nicky Perian: bye
[15:04] Henri Beauchamp: Take care
[15:04] Latif Khalifa: take care merov :)
[15:04] Boroondas Gupte: don't drive to fast
[15:04] Ardy Lay: See you later Merov
[15:04] Merov Linden: see you guys and please do tell me on opensource-dev if you have a red flag on the commit merge!
[15:04] Merov Linden: ciao
[15:04] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you Merov
[15:05] Aimee Linden: Bye!
[15:05] Aleric Inglewood: bye!
[15:06] Henri Beauchamp: /me waves bye.
[15:07] Thickbrick Sleaford: meh, no teleports
[15:07] WolfPup Lowenhar: has to be back here in 45 min
[15:07] Boroondas Gupte: why?
[15:07] Latif Khalifa: yeah tp fails for me too

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