Open Source Meeting/2010-07-22

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Agenda Thursday, 22 July 2010

  1. Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
  2. Plans for releasing SG 2.0?
    • SNOW-761 : New blocking issue. Need to discuss.
    • SNOW-669 : SOCKS5, update from Robin?
  3. Plans for releasing SG 1.4?
  4. SNOW-606 libuuid.1.3.0, need solution to build with prebuilt
  5. While the windows prebuild libs scripts has been published ( ), the Linux and MAC build scripts are still MIA.


[13:48] Dzonatas Sol: Hi
[13:48] WolfPup Lowenhar: hello
[13:48] RedMokum Bravin: :-)
[13:51] Thickbrick Sleaford: hello people
[13:51] RedMokum Bravin: Hey Thickbrick
[13:51] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey thick
[13:55] RedMokum Bravin: Hi Morgaine.
[13:55] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Red
[13:58] Morgaine Dinova: I wonder if the size of the crowd tracks SL population, or whether it's only the old timers who attend.
[13:59] RedMokum Bravin: We sometimes get noobs at Jack's :-)
[13:59] RedMokum Bravin: attracted by the green dots
[13:59] WolfPup Lowenhar: i think it has more to do with how many are actualy doing dev work
[14:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: but i can see how a stack of green dots on the map could be enticing
[14:00] Morgaine Dinova: The non-tech OHs like Jack's are quite likely to track population numbers. Dev statistics is a bit more complicated though.
[14:00] Morgaine Dinova: The numbers here also reflect how popular Linden efforts are versus TPV efforts.
[14:01] RedMokum Bravin: Jack's OH are filled with seriousness from the 1st till the last second. Even more than programmers' OH.
[14:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey merov
[14:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey boroondas
[14:01] Boroondas Gupte: hi all
[14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Merov :-0
[14:01] RedMokum Bravin: Hello
[14:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: boroondas my net got the hick-ups again
[14:02] Merov Linden: hello
[14:02] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi merov
[14:02] Dzonatas Sol: hi
[14:02] Latif Khalifa: hello Merov :)
[14:03] Merov Linden: How's everyone?
[14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Fine thanks Merov, you?
[14:03] WolfPup Lowenhar: im here i think
[14:03] Merov Linden: we have a nice agenda today:
[14:03] RedMokum Bravin: Glad to be back after the holidays. :-)
[14:03] Merov Linden: I've been busy busy... but I see the light at the end of the tunal (I think...)
[14:03] Merov Linden: tunnel
[14:03] Aimee Linden: make sure it's not a train
[14:04] Latif Khalifa: lol
[14:04] Merov Linden: well, may be it's a train... either way, my worries are almost over...
[14:04] Aimee Linden: LOL
[14:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey amiee
[14:04] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Aimee :-)
[14:04] Aimee Linden: hi :)
[14:05] Merov Linden: k, I added a bit to the agenda
[14:05] Merov Linden: point 1: Merov's update : in case you haven't noticed, the build system changed a lot recently
[14:06] Merov Linden: I think I got it right now and it's starting to produce things in a more consistent and usable way
[14:06] Merov Linden: pfffeww... that wasn't the most fun things to do
[14:07] Ardy Lay: It's much appreciated, Merov.
[14:07] Merov Linden: in the end though, TeamCity is pretty darn good and it gave me an opportunity to do some cleaning through all the branch building
[14:07] Ardy Lay: People are asking for "safe" new builds.
[14:07] Boroondas Gupte: "save"?
[14:07] Latif Khalifa: lol, now you know why we call our ( TeamSh*ty
[14:07] Latif Khalifa: :P
[14:07] Merov Linden: we still have issues though with each trunks and that's what we'll be talking about in the next points
[14:07] Ardy Lay: "Safe", built by LL.
[14:08] Merov Linden: point 2: SG 2.0:
[14:08] Merov Linden: I'd like to release that one but we have 2 problems:
[14:08] Merov Linden: SNOW-761
[14:08] Snowglobe 2 Mac Release builds crash on login in LLPipeline::compare_pools
[14:08] Latif Khalifa: now that 2.1 is official, so i see know point in releaseing sg 2.0
[14:09] Boroondas Gupte: Fixed in trunk according to jira?
[14:09] Aimee Linden: SNOW-761 is hopeguly now fixed
[14:09] Aimee Linden: *hopefully
[14:09] Aimee Linden: just committed the fix to 2.0.1 also
[14:09] Merov Linden: cool!
[14:09] Dzonatas Sol: Lot of people are asking to switch from 2.1 back to 2.0... so releasing SG2.0 as solution maybe good for that
[14:10] WolfPup Lowenhar: i wonder if that fixes the one i found over the weekend that is similar
[14:10] Merov Linden: did you discuss with Aleric and others who worked on the original code?
[14:10] Dzonatas Sol: "a lot of people" meaning from what i read on a the few forum threads...
[14:10] Aimee Linden: yeah, I don't think there was anything wrong with their code
[14:11] Aimee Linden: it was just making GCC 4.0.1 "optimize" it in a different way
[14:11] Merov Linden: are there other places in the code we should code defensively like the one you fixed?
[14:11] Aimee Linden: and when I say optimize I mean "helpfully" skip the checks for NULL pointers before using them
[14:12] Aimee Linden: I applied a different fix to my initial band-aid
[14:12] Merov Linden: I haven't checked the most recent commit message
[14:12] Morgaine Dinova: lol
[14:12] Merov Linden: bit behind in email in genera;
[14:12] Aimee Linden: I shifted the function definition from the .h to the .cpp which did the trick
[14:13] WolfPup Lowenhar: amiee i wonder if that might help fix snow-754
[14:13] Water and Sky has dark patches and flickering with atmospheric shaders are turn off.
[14:13] Dzonatas Sol: forums mentions a crash on login... lemme get link
[14:13] Morgaine Dinova: Aimee: sounds like the -Ofail flag, optimize for failure :P
[14:13] Latif Khalifa: lol
[14:14] Aimee Linden: lol yeah
[14:14] Marc Adored: i get a crash on login with 2.1 official viewer but im running osx on unofficial hardware so i doubt it is a normal circumstance
[14:14] Dzonatas Sol:
[14:14] Merov Linden: just checked the commit... interesting indeed...
[14:14] Merov Linden: I'm really glad you identified it
[14:14] Merov Linden: so, we're left with SNOW-669 on that SG2.0 branch
[14:14] Port of SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:14] Merov Linden: I heard you Latif
[14:15] Aimee Linden: was a real headache, didn't find the solution till I realised what the code said was not at all what was actually happening
[14:15] Merov Linden: you're right, it might be an exercise in futility but, since we're just one bug away, I'd like to produce it and at least give some trace to folks
[14:16] Boroondas Gupte: What optimization level is used on Mac "release" builds?
[14:16] Merov Linden: 2.1 should follow very soon after
[14:16] Aimee Linden: -O3
[14:16] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey oz
[14:16] Merov Linden: we need to triage that list of Mysterious Future bugs though
[14:17] WolfPup Lowenhar: i was looking through those and a lot of them are for linux and mac
[14:17] Merov Linden: BTW, I got the PJIRA credential back and updated the revision lists in JIRA :)
[14:17] Techwolf Lupindo: Need snowglobe 2.1 in jira
[14:17] Merov Linden: we do!
[14:17] Boroondas Gupte: some of them wouldn't be so mysterious if we had "2.1" and "2.2" available ...
[14:17] Boroondas Gupte: oh
[14:17] Boroondas Gupte: :-)
[14:17] Merov Linden: we have 2.1
[14:17] Merov Linden: I haven't added 2.2 yet
[14:17] Latif Khalifa: while we are on the subject of official 2.1, would be nice to have 2.1b2 b3 and final branches in viewer external
[14:17] Merov Linden: but it's much easier now :)
[14:17] Merov Linden: ah right
[14:18] Merov Linden: need to do that
[14:18] Techwolf Lupindo: Yes, it would be nice to have those tags in viwer-externial for those that want to build a "virgin" client.
[14:18] Merov Linden: tag svn revs with that
[14:18] Thickbrick Sleaford: also, 1,3 is stll listed as "unreleased version"
[14:18] Boroondas Gupte: where?
[14:18] Latif Khalifa: in JIRA
[14:18] Merov Linden: still? I thought I "released" it yesterday
[14:18] Latif Khalifa: hehe
[14:18] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh, could be
[14:18] Merov Linden: gave it its official date even
[14:18] Techwolf Lupindo: Right now, There is no revision that matches the interial svn number, so its like with one to use...
[14:19] Techwolf Lupindo: swith/witch/
[14:19] Marc Adored: so its officially official
[14:20] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey robin
[14:20] Latif Khalifa: hey Robin :)
[14:20] Dzonatas Sol: wouldn't be easier now to just list what revision numbers goes to what beta version
[14:20] Merov Linden: not sure I follow you Techwolf: we have, as of now, 2.0 (that matches the release branch) and 2.1 (which matches trunk)
[14:20] Merov Linden: what else do you want?
[14:20] Merov Linden: matching the minor version? (i.e. 2.0.1)
[14:20] Robin Cornelius: Hey everyone, can some one IM me a log so far
[14:21] Boroondas Gupte: yes, one moment, Robin
[14:21] Dzonatas Sol: i don't see how it will help to put those betas into a separate branch
[14:21] Merov Linden: not a separate branch, a tag so whoever wants to build it can
[14:21] Techwolf Lupindo: merov, viewer-externial. Not snowglobe.
[14:21] Dzonatas Sol: in svn and branch and tag are the same
[14:22] Merov Linden: oooo... ok
[14:22] Latif Khalifa: robin,
[14:22] Techwolf Lupindo: I'll get the details later....I can't remember all the numbers now.
[14:22] WolfPup Lowenhar: dang my net still has the hick-ups
[14:22] Merov Linden: anyway, since Robin is here, may be he can update us on SNOW-669
[14:22] Merov Linden: I saw your commit on 1.4 Robin
[14:23] Merov Linden: finishing some SOCKS5 stuff
[14:23] Merov Linden: how's the 2.x port going?
[14:23] WolfPup Lowenhar: dang going to have to read the log again today :'(
[14:24] GOAT Firethorn: ouch...hard landing
[14:24] Merov Linden: Robin? are you there?
[14:24] WolfPup Lowenhar: /me wonders if he is still here even
[14:24] Robin Cornelius: Hey yes, sorry was ctaching up on note card of log
[14:24] Merov Linden: ah...
[14:25] Aleric Inglewood: Wow, I compiled with optimization since a long long time, and have an FPS of 21 now, with all avies on screen, on Ultra with imposters turned off :).
[14:25] Robin Cornelius: yes, i commited the long out standing bug fixes to the 1.4 branch, these should have gone ina long long time ago and are what Chris Collins is running with his clients so i know its good
[14:25] Robin Cornelius: i've also started work porting to latest snowglobe 2.X trunk today
[14:25] Robin Cornelius: i've pretty much merged the core and the UDP support
[14:25] Merov Linden: cool!
[14:26] Merov Linden: nice to see this moving again...
[14:26] Robin Cornelius: i'mm test tomrrow and if thats good merge curl/http support
[14:26] Robin Cornelius: if you notice i created 2 sub tasks for the core and the UI, that would pretty much complete the core
[14:27] Merov Linden: great
[14:27] Robin Cornelius: we have also been workjing on ways of getting voice over a socks 5 proxy to compklete the set
[14:27] Merov Linden: are you going to merge in trunk (2.1) or release (2.0)?
[14:27] Aimee Linden: cool :)
[14:27] Robin Cornelius: i'm working on 2.1 currently
[14:27] Robin Cornelius: but i suspect the patch will be pretty easy to port back to 2
[14:28] Merov Linden: Ah... you're giving some ammos to Latif then :)
[14:28] Latif Khalifa: :)
[14:28] Merov Linden: he was questioning the opportunity of doing a 2.0 release at all by now, since viewer 2.1 is official
[14:28] Robin Cornelius: For voice proxy, on windows the approach is dll injection and function overriding of winsock, on linux stright LD_PRELOAD stuff
[14:29] Latif Khalifa: whoa, that's some serious hacking ;)
[14:29] Robin Cornelius: luckly vivox does not do serious UDP hacking like the SL viewer does so it does work
[14:29] Aleric Inglewood: I can't get 2.1 to run when compiled with optimization, see
[14:29] Bugs showing when compiling with optimzation
[14:29] Merov Linden: we're far from smallish xml hacking here... a good thing mind you... :)
[14:29] Robin Cornelius: can't socksify the viewer due to the implementation of LLCircuits and reliable UDP
[14:29] Robin Cornelius: anyway... i ramble...
[14:30] Techwolf Lupindo: Got the numbers: officecial 2.1.0 is 207030 internial svn, viewer-externial r 3506 is 20703 internial svn number, viewer-externial r 3526 is 207152 internial svn number. There is no viewer-externial revision that matches officeal viewer of 207030. That what I was refereing too earler.
[14:30] Latif Khalifa: that's strange, how come GridProxy has no trouble with LLUDP circuits and stuff
[14:30] Techwolf Lupindo: *sighs* I even mistype some number in that...gahh....
[14:31] Merov Linden: Thanks Techwolf!
[14:31] Robin Cornelius: gridproxy is not a dumb proxy though
[14:31] Robin Cornelius: its aware of the protocol
[14:31] Merov Linden: Robin, do you have an ETA for the port? (sans the voice prxy-ing)
[14:32] Robin Cornelius: i'm aiming for the core to be complete by the tuesday meeting
[14:32] Merov Linden: excellent
[14:32] Robin Cornelius: its still usable with out UI, just need to set debug settigns or hack settigns.xml etc
[14:32] Merov Linden: just so everyone know BTW, I'll be on vacation the first 2 weeks of August
[14:32] Merov Linden: I'd like to wrap that 2.0 release before then
[14:32] GOAT Firethorn: sounds fun :)
[14:33] Merov Linden: I'll stay in Cal... no travel for me this year...
[14:33] GOAT Firethorn: awww
[14:33] Merov Linden: ok, I think we really covered point 2
[14:33] Latif Khalifa: no south of france? eh
[14:33] Latif Khalifa: hehe
[14:34] Merov Linden: I was born and grew up there Latif: that's not really vacation for me :)
[14:34] GOAT Firethorn: I'd say come see the beaches here, but the oil is just hitting the inner bays
[14:34] GOAT Firethorn: its gettin nasty
[14:34] Merov Linden: anyway: point 3
[14:34] Latif Khalifa: Merov, it's still one of the nices places on earth :)
[14:34] Merov Linden: /me agrees with Latif
[14:34] Thickbrick Sleaford: one more thing to add: What do you think about getting updated test builds on the wiki page?
[14:35] Merov Linden: 1.4 release, that's one that Oz likes...
[14:35] Thickbrick Sleaford: We won't get bug reports if nobody is using the test builds...
[14:35] Merov Linden: I saw quite a bit of activity on 1.4 recently and the build is working
[14:35] WolfPup Lowenhar: would like to know where thecrash reporting i do gose
[14:36] GOAT Firethorn: yeah
[14:36] Aleric Inglewood: Merov: I think that SNOW-713 can be officially closed now?
[14:36] Global objects in libllcommon duplicated in plugins
[14:36] Merov Linden: we should scrub the big list though so we can release
[14:36] Latif Khalifa: can we please have map login param committed before 1.4 goes live :)
[14:36] Merov Linden: Aleric: I suppose
[14:36] Ardy Lay: Merov, you said that Oz likes 1.4?
[14:36] Merov Linden: one thing though with 1.4: it doesn't work on Mac
[14:36] GOAT Firethorn: Lol thats a setback
[14:36] Aleric Inglewood: It doesn't with llaimee's last patch?!
[14:37] Merov Linden: I haven't tried with that one but I think it's a different issue
[14:37] Merov Linden: the problem with 1.4 on Mac is when loading some dll
[14:37] Merov Linden: the lllibcommon dylib actually
[14:37] Latif Khalifa: took some doing to get llcommon.dll working on windows... perhaps something similar with dylib version on mac?
[14:38] Merov Linden: anyway, I have *not* spent time researching it but someone should before we stamp it and make it official
[14:38] Aleric Inglewood: ,me doesn't have a Mac
[14:38] Merov Linden: Latif: it basically works, i.e. works when building locally on my machine, not when building release on the TeamCity server
[14:39] Merov Linden: anyone with a bit of time and a Mac?
[14:39] Latif Khalifa: very few mac users
[14:40] Merov Linden: personnally, I think that if that one is fixed, one should call it 1.4 done
[14:40] Aimee Linden: I'm off on holiday tomorrow till Tuesday and the Mac is staying at home
[14:40] Merov Linden: I need to log that bug though :/
[14:40] Merov Linden: I don't think anyone did...
[14:40] Merov Linden: right?
[14:40] Aimee Linden: (iPad is coming with me, but think I'd struggle to debug it on that ;)
[14:40] Merov Linden: lol
[14:40] GOAT Firethorn: Lol yeah....1ghz A4 is not good for that
[14:41] Merov Linden: k, well, I'll report the issue and hit the list with a call for help then
[14:42] Merov Linden: I've waaay too many things to do before I go on vacation to spend much dedicated time on that one
[14:42] Marc Adored: Meroc buy me a mac and ill test anything you want :P
[14:42] GOAT Firethorn: LOL
[14:42] Aleric Inglewood: If it is not working on a MAC, then why does the automatic build report success?
[14:42] Marc Adored: merov even
[14:42] Merov Linden: nice try Marc...
[14:42] Marc Adored: blast :/
[14:42] Aimee Linden: it compiles ok, but doesn't run
[14:42] Aimee Linden: (apparently)
[14:42] Merov Linden: Aleric: it builds but you can't launch ot
[14:42] Merov Linden: it
[14:43] WolfPup Lowenhar: marc you should have made it a MacPRo
[14:43] Marc Adored: ill settle for a mini
[14:43] Merov Linden: we don't support PPC anymore Marc...
[14:43] Aleric Inglewood: Must be something very minor, I could probably fix it if I could get the debug output of someone trying to run it on a mac everytime I try something.
[14:43] GOAT Firethorn: Lol
[14:43] Merov Linden: do they do Intel mini? I don't know
[14:43] Marc Adored: the minis are ppc?
[14:44] GOAT Firethorn: no
[14:44] GOAT Firethorn: they arent
[14:44] Aimee Linden: yup, some very nice intel minis
[14:44] GOAT Firethorn: Mac Mini?
[14:44] GOAT Firethorn: those aren't PPC lol
[14:44] Aimee Linden: I do have a PPC Mac Mini hanging around here as my mail server
[14:44] Marc Adored: 2.4GHz or 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
[14:44] Merov Linden: k, anyhow, it's true that SNOW-586 is a great feature
[14:44] Add option to align textures across planar-mapped parallel faces
[14:45] Thickbrick Sleaford: :)
[14:45] Merov Linden: that and VWR-12984
[14:45] Water flickers and disappears in patches
[14:45] WolfPup Lowenhar: well here gose my net with the hic-ups again
[14:45] Latif Khalifa: /me still wants bits of SNOW-77 backported from viewer2 in :) I added support for SimianGrid Opensim login server :)
[14:45] S3 map shows main grid map even when on the beta grid
[14:46] Merov Linden: all highly in demand
[14:46] Merov Linden: Ah! right... Latif, do we have a patch ready to merge/commit for that SNOW-77 limited backport?
[14:47] Merov Linden: /me checks
[14:47] Latif Khalifa: there is one for v2, not for 1.4
[14:47] Thickbrick Sleaford: IIRC, no, but it should be easy. I think since the capability support in SNOW-77 is stuck wating on a contrib agreement, we might as well go with the login response in 1.4
[14:48] Merov Linden: +1 Thickbrick, that was my understanding
[14:48] Merov Linden: please go ahead and commit that if you have it ready
[14:48] Latif Khalifa: login response would do fine in 1.4 :)
[14:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: ok
[14:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: (I don't have that ready, but can work on it)
[14:49] Latif Khalifa: (and it's in 2.1 already, so no issues with contrib agreement)
[14:49] Merov Linden: k, well, looks like we can look forward to an official 1.4 soon then :)
[14:50] Merov Linden: we just need a bit of time on that Mac issue
[14:50] Merov Linden: OK, I think we exhausted the agenda on time for once
[14:50] Boroondas Gupte: indeed
[14:51] WolfPup Lowenhar: dant fn network
[14:51] s Google Translator: same fn Network
[14:51] Boroondas Gupte: oh, wait, there's a topic 4, now
[14:51] Latif Khalifa: now, lets play a game xD
[14:51] GOAT Firethorn: SLoply!
[14:51] GOAT Firethorn: lol
[14:51] Dzonatas Sol: SNOW-606
[14:51] link phase secondlife-bin fails; supplied LL-lib needs to be upgraded
[14:51] Merov Linden: /me refreshes
[14:52] Dzonatas Sol: Its the only thing that stopped the clean build on 2.1
[14:52] Thickbrick Sleaford: solution: upgrade to newer prebuilt libuuid
[14:52] Dzonatas Sol: 32 bit prebuilt on linux
[14:52] Dzonatas Sol: should we just steal and autobuild script? since that is out now... lol
[14:53] Dzonatas Sol: copying is trivial except that where to copy from is a guess cross different systems
[14:53] Techwolf Lupindo: Dzonzatas, only the windows build script i sout.
[14:53] Dzonatas Sol: mmhmm... and ported to linux just for this
[14:53] Dzonatas Sol: to be*
[14:53] Techwolf Lupindo: Need the linux and/or Mac prebuilt building script.
[14:53] Techwolf Lupindo: and realted files.
[14:54] Techwolf Lupindo: related files.
[14:54] Merov Linden: wait, DZonatas, you're saying that viewer 2.1 has the right lib but that viewer-external in not pointing to the right one in install.xml?
[14:54] Soft Linden: Can I catch a few minutes after the prebuilt lib script agenda item?
[14:55] WolfPup Lowenhar: i hope there is a transcript being done
[14:55] Soft Linden: Or whoops - that's done?
[14:55] Soft Linden: /me - doing work in the background, wasn't tracking too closely!
[14:55] Latif Khalifa: hehe
[14:55] Dzonatas Sol: install.xml still pulls the v1.0 libuuid and not v1.3
[14:55] Latif Khalifa: hey Soft
[14:55] Soft Linden: Hey hey
[14:55] Techwolf Lupindo: Soft, doing a jira now.
[14:55] Soft Linden: roger
[14:55] Techwolf Lupindo: That was somewhat related to the prebuild scripts issue.
[14:56] Merov Linden: k, but viewer 2.1 is pulling what? v1.3
[14:56] Aleric Inglewood: Merov: Nice work on the sldev-commits output-- I'm happy we have a the revision numbers back. I wonder if now also the problem has been resolved that if I start a comment with "SNOW-xyz: " then the comment is lost? If I leave out the colon or replace it with a semi-colon it works.
[14:56] Dzonatas Sol: 2.1 is still pulling the old libuuid
[14:56] Thickbrick Sleaford: the problem with older versions of libuuid is incompatibility with newer versions of some X library (libSM), which isn't prebuilt.
[14:57] Merov Linden: Aleric: really? I seem to do that myself all the time...
[14:57] Merov Linden: aah! get it now...
[14:57] Aleric Inglewood: It took me quite some commits to realize that that is why the comments are lost...
[14:57] Thickbrick Sleaford: lost?
[14:57] Dzonatas Sol: i read you last comment on SNOW-606, merov, yet that still doesn't let a clean prebuilt-lib build of finish on debian
[14:58] Dzonatas Sol: unless we do what i suggest in issue
[14:58] Dzonatas Sol: so i wondered how we could resolve the issue so it just works
[14:58] Merov Linden: update libuuid to v1.3 for everyone wouldn't work?
[14:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: /me is about ready to send his roughter to the moon!
[14:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: you don't want to do that WolfPup, think of the ping times!
[14:59] Dzonatas Sol: i read that comment as if you weren't going to update to v1.3
[14:59] Merov Linden: you're right as I thought it was hitting only a small category of Linux resi, but, apparently, I'm wrong
[15:00] Merov Linden: so may be we should just do that update
[15:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: thickbrick they couldn't be any worse than they are not
[15:00] Dzonatas Sol: if they build standalone the probably don't notice the issue
[15:00] Robin Cornelius: running away... night all...
[15:00] Merov Linden: night Robin
[15:01] Dzonatas Sol: but like me who tries to build prebuiilt tpv... i try to make it based on original as possible
[15:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: now*
[15:01] Merov Linden: well, it's one of those things, you don't want to drag on updating libs too long unless there's a good reason
[15:01] Soft Linden: Are folks able to hang around a bit longer after this?

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