Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-04-19

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Transcript for Thursday April 19, 2012

[16:08] Falcon Linden I have two announcements/requests and then we can probably open the floor
[16:08] Kris PATHBUG-69 Sounds great!
[16:08] Falcon Linden #1 Default character height
[16:09] Falcon Linden Because of limitations in the underlying AI system, it's only possible to guarantee robust pathfinding results for a single height of character. Most of the time it doesn't matter if your character is shorter or a bit taller, but you'll get two artefacts. (a) A short character may not take the most optimal path
[16:10] Falcon Linden and (b) A tall character may think it can walk somewhere but bump into a low ceiling
[16:10] draconis.neurocam what is the recommended height then?
[16:10] Falcon Linden That's the question, isn't it
[16:10] Falcon Linden :)
[16:10] Falcon Linden We can choose a recommended height.
[16:10] Lorca Linden YOU can help us decide ;)
[16:10] FadeOut Razorfen ~av height
[16:10] Moundsa Mayo So we need to test to detect the envelope?
[16:11] Nal Are you going to leave heights open to adjustment or just have an unchangable system set height?
[16:11] SMILE 1.9 meters..
[16:11] Rex Cronon can't an ave be 7 feet tall?
[16:11] draconis.neurocam well would it not make sense to take the average of the largest and smallest physics shape an avatar can have?
[16:11] Lorca Linden my understanding is that we have to pick a single value for all nav-meshes
[16:11] SMILE Feets is not IS of weights and measures, lol
[16:11] Moundsa Mayo Ah
[16:11] Falcon Linden nalates: what we'll probably do is initially select a fixed height. But later we may allow estate owners to change it. The reason is that we want to make sure that on initial release there's as much inter-region compatibility as possible
[16:11] Lorca Linden character height can change of course
[16:11] FadeOut Razorfen av height (1.5 - 2.0)
[16:12] Falcon Linden We can only choose one height.
[16:12] Moundsa Mayo 1.75m
[16:12] Dahlia Trimble I see the navmesh picks a height now and exclusdes areas that are below that height
[16:12] Falcon Linden Right. Here's how this will work
[16:12] Dahlia Trimble can see it by rezzing a ramp and looking at the navmesh
[16:12] Falcon Linden You'll all go back to your regions and build things. I've given estate managers a new sim console command
[16:13] SMILE I believe 1.9 is closer to the mean pretentions on main grid
[16:13] Falcon Linden You can use "set nav_mesh_height <x>" to set the height to <x>. You must then restart for it to take effect
[16:13] Rex Cronon tinies are going to have problem:(
[16:13] Falcon Linden Rex: avatars don't currently use pathfinding at all.
[16:13] draconis.neurocam is this on a wiki somewhere falcon so people who werent here will know about it?
[16:13] Rex Cronon they have small buildings
[16:14] Dahlia Trimble not even in attachments?
[16:14] Falcon Linden draconis: not yet. Lorca--can you create a space for that and I'll add some notes?
[16:14] Moundsa Mayo But all their vehicles and such are Tiny-scaled
[16:14] Rex Cronon i know it doesn't work on avatars
[16:14] Falcon Linden Dahlia: not presently, no.
[16:14] Ima Mechanique I'd reccomend erring on the short side. People will build things foor larger avatars to get into, so the height problem is the lesser evil than sub-optimal paths
[16:14] Falcon Linden Ima: actually, you mean "erring on the tall side"
[16:14] Falcon Linden if we erred on the short side, anything taller than that value could hit ceilings
[16:15] Falcon Linden and we will err on the tall side but we want to know your suggestions AFTER you've used the system
[16:15] Ima Mechanique that's what I meant
[16:15] Ima Mechanique ceilings will be higher because avtars are
[16:15] Falcon Linden We'll create a PATHBUG jira that you can all comment on starting next week
[16:15] Ima Mechanique so bumping into them is a minor problem
[16:15] Falcon Linden When you comment, please provide:
[16:15] Falcon Linden 1) Your name
[16:15] Falcon Linden 2) Your region
[16:16] Rex Cronon people will use pathfinding for pets. pets usually aren't 2m tall. unless u have dragons:)
[16:16] Falcon Linden 3) What kinds of characters you tested with
[16:16] FadeOut Razorfen oh damn, yes... i've had using huge raid boss mobs in my plans
[16:16] Dahlia Trimble will pathfinding ever work on mainland?
[16:16] Falcon Linden I'll be verifying that you've actually set up your region for pathfinding before I read the rest of your comment in the jira :)
[16:16] Falcon Linden dahlia: yes
[16:16] FadeOut Razorfen constraining to one value would break it
[16:17] Falcon Linden fadeout: no, it would just require you to build more carefully
[16:17] Falcon Linden in outdoor areas, this will be totally irrelevant
[16:17] FadeOut Razorfen kay then c:
[16:17] Moundsa Mayo That can happen
[16:17] Rex Cronon considering that max height = max ave height => boses can't be that tall
[16:17] Falcon Linden okay. So that's issue #1 that we'd like your feedback on
[16:17] Moundsa Mayo Can use invisible prim to meet default height?
[16:17] SMILE "You are not authorized to set that parameter. This event has been logged."
[16:17] Falcon Linden moundsa: you don't NEED to meet anything.
[16:18] SMILE that present status
[16:18] Falcon Linden sigma: are you an estate manager here? :)
[16:18] Moundsa Mayo K
[16:18] Rex Cronon AFK...............................
[16:18] Rex Cronon afk
[16:18] SMILE lol, sure
[16:18] SMILE well , puzling how we will do
[16:18] Falcon Linden Item #2. You're hopefully familiar, at least a little, with the walkability materials
[16:19] Dahlia Trimble vaguely
[16:19] Nal Some
[16:19] SMILE a little also
[16:19] Falcon Linden To summarize, each walkable linkset and each material volume can be set to have four Walkability values that will apply to each of the four LSL CHARACTER_TYPEs
[16:19] Falcon Linden We call them CHARACTER_TYPE_A, CHARACTER_TYPE_B, ...
[16:19] SMILE up to D
[16:20] Falcon Linden What we'd like to do is provided an official /suggestion/ for which character type you should use for a given pathfinding character
[16:20] Falcon Linden For example, "For compatibility, you should make any pathfinding pets TYPE_A, pathfinding vehicles TYPE_B, pathfinding robots TYPE_C, and anything that clear doesn't fit into a category, TYPE_D"
[16:20] FadeOut Razorfen oh, anyway i remember how they did pathfinding in world of warcraft, raid boss was a small character with default av size, just with huge display model (sorry was a tad late on that)
[16:20] Nal A basic standard would be good
[16:21] Falcon Linden But we don't know what you folks will actually end up building
[16:21] Sylver Bu (sorry for landing on you guys..)
[16:21] Falcon Linden So we'd like to both encourage you to start building things and to get real feedback on what those suggestions should be
[16:21] Falcon Linden We'll make a jira for that, too. Provide the same info and at least a slurl to where we can see some examples you've made of the kinds of things you're suggesting
[16:22] SMILE would that be default charactersz for the types, or fixed for ever ?
[16:22] Falcon Linden in other words, if you suggest that TYPE_C be used only for zombies but you've never actually made a zombie pathfinding character, I'm going to ignore you :)
[16:22] Falcon Linden sigma: it will only be a suggestion
[16:22] SMILE ok
[16:22] Falcon Linden the only place it will show up is in documentation and in the UI.
[16:22] Lorca Linden and as you start building things and checking out the viewer tools, plase make sure to check out the guides on those topics :
[16:22] Lorca Linden http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_Quick_Start_Guide
[16:23] Falcon Linden If you're not concerned about compatibility of your characters/builds with other people's characters/build, I don't care and I won't listen to you :)
[16:23] Lorca Linden http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_Tools_in_the_Second_Life_Viewer
[16:23] Falcon Linden errr
[16:23] Lorca Linden and you can download the viewer tools from here :
[16:23] Falcon Linden wow, I totally didn't mean that
[16:23] Lorca Linden http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
[16:23] Falcon Linden what I meant was "If you're not concerned...then you don't need to worry"
[16:23] Falcon Linden The part about not caring applied to people who say TYPE_C should be a zombie but haven't made a zombie
[16:23] Falcon Linden In that case, I don't care and I won't listen to you :)
[16:24] Falcon Linden Okay, any questions on those two topics?
[16:24] Dahlia Trimble zombies dont say anything but "BRAINZZZZ" anyway
[16:24] Nal blame it on lag
[16:24] Falcon Linden Nal: I work here, I can't do that :)
[16:24] Nal lol
[16:24] Moundsa Mayo Are the four charater types a limited set that can later grow? Or top levels for hierchical types envisioned?
[16:25] Moundsa Mayo [hierarchical]
[16:25] Nal Are we seeing the height problems here in these test regions?
[16:25] Falcon Linden it may be possible to extend the number of character types, but it would require a bunch of work
[16:25] Moundsa Mayo k
[16:25] Falcon Linden Nal: in all the aditi test regions, and by default everywhere, the navmesh is generated with a height of 1.8m
[16:25] Moundsa Mayo Is ther a plan to integrat the vehicle system (or an upgrade) with pathfinding?
[16:25] Falcon Linden anyone, estate manager or not, can use "get nav_mesh_height" to find out what the current height is on the region
[16:26] Falcon Linden moundsa: not at the present time. If we did that, it would probably be by way of providing an llGetPathPoints call, but that has its own difficulties
[16:26] Moundsa Mayo Or does Pathfinding REPLACE the vehicle system?
[16:26] Moundsa Mayo I see.
[16:26] Dahlia Trimble is there, or any plans for, a way that LSL can access the navmesh data, or specify/modify search heuristics?
[16:26] Falcon Linden Dahlia: no. That would require a language far more performant than LSL
[16:27] Falcon Linden like...x86 assembly.
[16:27] SMILE nav_mesh_height = [unset
[16:27] Falcon Linden right. Default is 1.8
[16:27] SMILE ok
[16:27] Falcon Linden I think
[16:27] Falcon Linden maybe I should confirm
[16:27] Falcon Linden sec
[16:28] Falcon Linden 1.75 default
[16:28] Falcon Linden the range for the parameter is 0.5 to 3
[16:28] Falcon Linden and again, changes will only take full effect after a restart
[16:28] Rex Cronon the thing is. a zombie can at one point be very dry, and after u shoot it or eats some brain will become wet with blood. so it needs to change its type
[16:28] Falcon Linden you can change type :)
[16:29] Falcon Linden If I had to predict the types, they would be quadruped, biped, and vehicle
[16:29] Rex Cronon than u can't say zombie needs to be a specific type
[16:29] Falcon Linden but if there are other categories that you think would be better after experimentation and your knowledge of SL's market, we'd like to hear it
[16:29] Falcon Linden Falcon Linden wishes he hadn't mentioned zombies

[16:29] Moundsa Mayo or more generally polyped, biped, and vehicle B^)
[16:30] Falcon Linden Moundsa: our designer would shoot me if I tried to suggest we put the word "polyped" on the UI
[16:30] Rex Cronon and if u shoot its legs and arms becomes worm like:)
[16:30] FadeOut Razorfen oh, will thar be any way to receive raw navmesh data with vector list of navigation positions ?
[16:30] Moundsa Mayo Carry polyped to an extreme and you can have snakes and worms
[16:30] Falcon Linden FadeOut: someday maybe. The trouble with that is that dynamic obstacles can move, invalidating the path
[16:30] Moundsa Mayo Hee. No shooting of Falcon!
[16:31] Rex Cronon miriapod maybe:0
[16:31] Lorca Linden and remember, these are just suggestions for the character types, you will be free to use different types of creatures
[16:31] Falcon Linden Okay, open question time!
[16:31] Lorca Linden they will help standardization but not enforce it
[16:31] FadeOut Razorfen PATHBUG-75 still ain't perfect, my last comment on that "So what i should do to make enemy NPC do not fly like 20 meters away when it get hit by an arrow with 200 vel with very low mass and volume ? I've got no other solution then making arrows use llVolumeDetect, which would break a proper projectile behavior... Something about that pls ?"
[16:31] Jira Helper [#PATHBUG-75] CLONE - Characters are push when hit with small fast moving prim https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-75
[16:31] Kris PATHBUG-69 @Lorca/Falcon: How likely is it for PATHBUG-69 to be resolved? If improbable, if the Pathfinding Server code manifests on Agni much sooner than the "Experience Tools" server code, can we have an option to "opt out" , as a region owner, on Pathfinding server code until Experience Tools server code is final? There are a lot of problems with this new change in llVolumeDetect behavior. Much of this can be mitigated with Experience Tools live, but that seems more far off than Pathfinding server code on the main channel.
[16:31] Jira Helper [#PATHBUG-69] llVolumeDetect(TRUE) is broken https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-69
[16:31] Falcon Linden FadeOut: have you tried llCastRay? :)
[16:31] FadeOut Razorfen 200 is not inf
[16:32] FadeOut Razorfen arrows need to be able to dodge
[16:32] Falcon Linden PATHBUG-69 is worth discussion. Let me handle 75 first
[16:32] FadeOut Razorfen and btw
[16:32] Rex Cronon can u make characters jump? like a frog?
[16:32] Lorca Linden rex yes
[16:32] Lorca Linden we have frogs in the wilderness that hop
[16:32] FadeOut Razorfen look at this gnome right here, something really weir happening when i shoot it, look
[16:32] Falcon Linden For PATHBUG-75, use lower velocity arrows
[16:32] Jira Helper [#PATHBUG-75] CLONE - Characters are push when hit with small fast moving prim https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-75
[16:33] Falcon Linden and, more importantly, SHORTER arrows
[16:33] Dahlia Trimble Dahlia Trimble dodges stray bullets...

[16:33] FadeOut Razorfen like, it slided away
[16:33] Falcon Linden The way that characters work is different from how other objects work
[16:33] Lorca Linden btw, i just gotta say, I loved the gnome video you posted in that bug ;)
[16:33] Falcon Linden When something penetrates them (like an arrow), they are given a velocity that will resolve the penetration immediately
[16:34] Falcon Linden I'm not sure if PATHBUG-75 has been deployed to agni yet
[16:34] Falcon Linden my tests showed significantly improved behavior, but there's only so much we can clamp down on that without other things going wrong
[16:34] Rex Cronon could the reason for how far r they pushed be because of the new flight limit?
[16:34] FadeOut Razorfen yea, but i've noticed a new thing about it... now it starts sliding away off the sim when i shoot it
[16:34] Falcon Linden Rex: absolutely not
[16:34] Falcon Linden FadeOut: open a new bug.
[16:34] FadeOut Razorfen okay
[16:35] FadeOut Razorfen i've noticed it only today
[16:35] Falcon Linden wait
[16:35] Falcon Linden oh, that's a DIFFERENT bug
[16:35] Falcon Linden we're already tracking that
[16:35] Falcon Linden it isn't actually sliding. Your viewer is just not getting the message that it /isn't/ sliding :)
[16:35] FadeOut Razorfen oh lol
[16:36] FadeOut Razorfen thankies lorca c:
[16:36] Falcon Linden Okay. Now, PATHBUG-69
[16:36] Jira Helper [#PATHBUG-69] llVolumeDetect(TRUE) is broken https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-69
[16:36] Falcon Linden I've found a way to preserve legacy behavior for existing objects as follows:
[16:37] Falcon Linden 1) If the linkset uses the hack and also uses new accounting, the first time it is rezzed on a pathfinding sim the hacked prim will be set to physics shape type none. Since the linkset already uses new accounting, this will not affect land impact. It may affect a small amount of content that relies on link number of higher numbered prims
[16:38] Falcon Linden 2) If the linkset uses the hack and does NOT use new accounting, the prim will be modified such that it collides only with the terrain. Other than that, behavior should be unchanged
[16:38] Falcon Linden 3) No new linksets can be created that use the hack, and any linking or unlinking event (other than sitting an avatar) will remove the hack
[16:39] Falcon Linden We are looking to address the issue that optimizing physics by moving to new accounting can cause streaming cost to skyrocket. We have some ideas but are not ready to commit to the changes yet. Hopefully I'll have more info next week.
[16:40] Jei SVC-212 @Falcon As a sim that has already been structured strategically to hide legacy linden functions that work incorrectly, and also take down unnessisary load, to change things around to use new accounting while keeping legacy function, would be a large time and effort... It'd be better to shut the sim down until it could be fixed. Alternitively, is it possible for private regions to stay on a previous version until those things can be resolved with ET?
[16:41] Falcon Linden Jei: Which of the three cases above does your content fall into?
[16:41] Moundsa Mayo The vehicle system uses a sit-order-by-link-number algorithm. Might this be implemented for pathfinding objects?
[16:41] Moundsa Mayo OOPs - table until through with current topic.
[16:41] Falcon Linden no, the only link number calculations that will be affected will be in collision detection events
[16:42] Falcon Linden everything else, llSetLinkedPrimitiveParams, llMessageLinked, etc., etc. willl be unaffected
[16:42] Falcon Linden only llDetectedLinkNum in collision_start, collision, collision_end, and land_collision events will be affected, and only in case (2)
[16:43] Jei SVC-212 i haven't seen the effects of the update outside of volume detect beoming solid. in adition, i note they take the same PE as they had before. A fix for our teleportation would be to make child phantom prims become prim type collision none... In which case boosts theim up from meager 5 linksents to 180+. great if we could regulate things on the fly to conform, but as it's structured to old system, it's not quickly fixable.
[16:43] Jei SVC-212 These are link sets that use volume detect hack because phantom disables non sit targets, where sit target can be accested from across world.
[16:44] draconis.neurocam that would seriously be amazing if optimizing physics did did not always cause the streaming cost to skyrocket, just saying
[16:44] draconis.neurocam yeah
[16:44] Falcon Linden The fix I've described has not gone out yet
[16:44] Dahlia Trimble how about stiff flexible prims? are they still phantom?
[16:44] Falcon Linden When it does (next week, I think), the hacked objects should return to being phantom
[16:44] Falcon Linden dahlia: this only applies to hacked llVolumeDetect-based content
[16:45] Jei SVC-212 Well, it'd be best to see how it pilotes then : ) Half asleep, so please bear with my alertness here too.
[16:45] Falcon Linden Draconis: As I said, we're aware of that issue and working on possible solutions
[16:45] draconis.neurocam right
[16:45] Falcon Linden PATHBUG-69 has increased the priority of resolving that issue
[16:45] Lorca Linden we are definitely aware of the concerns there and are working actively on a solution
[16:45] Lorca Linden as Falcon said
[16:45] Falcon Linden Lorca: right, I just said that. See? :)
[16:46] Falcon Linden Anyway, no one trusts producers. Engineers don't lie. :)
[16:46] Lorca Linden Lorca Linden tugs on falcon's teather and puts his hood on

[16:46] Jei SVC-212 Well, If it's feasible to remain on an earlier version if it's not, that'd suffice... Volume detect in huge overlaps is something we just have to do, and it uses extra unnessisary load. So any fix that won't break our current structure for now would make us happy : )
[16:46] FadeOut Razorfen thats so true falcon lol
[16:46] Falcon Linden Lorca, please don't put on a hood. That's scary. I don't know what you might do next
[16:47] Falcon Linden jei: We won't be able to accomodate remaining on an older version of the server once we go grid-wide. But we do intend to resolve this issue before then as detailed above, combined--we hope--with changes to new accounting
[16:47] Falcon Linden Okay, anything else?
[16:47] Falcon Linden Have people been playing with the viewer?
[16:47] Dahlia Trimble dates?
[16:48] Falcon Linden Dahlia: we don't have any to give
[16:48] Falcon Linden Prunes are available on request, though
[16:48] SMILE what would be the sim capability on njumber of PF characters ?
[16:48] Dahlia Trimble "we dont need no stinkin dates"
[16:48] Jei SVC-212 Well, it's be thanked... as we stand, we cannot change our sim's structure at this time, so if things don't work, we're forced to close down the sim until we resolve the issues. Thanks for the info.
[16:48] Lorca Linden also, if anyone in this group wants to take part in the opt in beta, please let me know
[16:48] Lorca Linden you can get your regions on agni on the pathfinding server code next week if they are not already!
[16:48] Sylver Bu I'll be loading up the pathfinding viewer sometime later.. for now i'm just listening and trying to comprehend whats going on xD'
[16:48] Lorca Linden pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com
[16:48] SMILE WHow, I would like Falcon
[16:48] Falcon Linden Sigma: that will depend on your particular region, but we've seen 50 supported pretty easily. We've provided the "Characters..." floater to help you locate poorly performing characters
[16:48] Dahlia Trimble Dahlia Trimble is mainland bound :/

[16:49] Lorca Linden and feel free to spread the word on that as well
[16:49] FadeOut Razorfen i think i've got nothing else, but bugging about non attached rigged animated mesh. i've almost finished my prim BVH animation workaround, but it takes 0.2 ms script time, and ~50kbps per character, which is kinda god damn high
[16:49] Kris PATHBUG-69 Experience Tools will resolve most of the problems, however, if you are willing to preserve "legacy" builds as you say that is a good thing. I fear that Pathfinding Server code will come out much earlier than Experience Tools server code.
[16:49] Sylver Bu I will do. I think the folks that make Meeroos will be interested in the pathfinding coding since their pets are entirely AI driven..
[16:49] Falcon Linden Dahlia: We do have one or two mainland regions on pathfinding. Send pathfinding-beta@ a message with what region you're on and we'll look into moving it to the beta channel
[16:49] Falcon Linden Kris, how will experience tools help?
[16:50] Dahlia Trimble ooou ty Falcon :)
[16:50] Falcon Linden FadeOut: Lorca and I are the two biggest proponents of adding support for proper animation that you'll find here. Trust us, possibly better than you folks, how horrible the current workarounds are
[16:50] FadeOut Razorfen yeeea lol
[16:50] Falcon Linden errr, "Trust us, we know, possibly..."
[16:51] Lorca Linden preaching to the choir, so to speak ;)
[16:51] Rex Cronon ave anim, or prim aanim?
[16:51] Rex Cronon anim*
[16:51] Falcon Linden we'd like to see arbitrary rigged mesh animation
[16:51] Falcon Linden but that's no guarantee it will happen :)
[16:52] Moundsa Mayo Well I'll sure sing out loud in harmony on animation!
[16:52] Falcon Linden 9 minutes left. Has anyone set up their whole region for pathfinding yet?
[16:52] Jei SVC-212 i'm sure it will happen... mesh imports are already 15 year standard out of date... Good to show outsiders that Second Life is the 'real deal'.
[16:52] Kris PATHBUG-69 We will no longer require "sit on targets" for teleportation. At present, with llVolumeDetect an avatar must me in absolute proximity to the rezed / non-solid teleport beacon in order for it to function without hopping around the region in draw distance and camera angles to exploit "game inspired" acheivements. We can replace those with ET.
[16:52] Lorca Linden also, if anyone is having performance issues on a pathfinding region on the main grid, please point them to the links I shared earlier
[16:53] Falcon Linden Kris that's interesting. I wasn't aware of that use for the hack.
[16:53] Lorca Linden there are some relatively simple steps that fix the common issues we are seeing on a minority of regions
[16:53] Lorca Linden detailed in the getting started and viewer guides
[16:54] Falcon Linden Also, in the future, we plan to implement additional optimizations that rely on objects being marked as permanent (static obstacle, walkable, etc.)
[16:54] Lorca Linden and, as a reminder, pathfinding is currently on a partial debug build so we can get better data to fix bugs before launch
[16:54] Falcon Linden So mark everything you can, because some day it might help your region load faster. Or something else.
[16:54] Falcon Linden Or maybe help with bridges that cross region boundaries. I don't know, but it's certainly A Good Thing (TM)
[16:54] Lorca Linden you may see some performance hit on particularly busy / object heavy regions, but the majority (around 80%) of regions we move over on agni are running just fine even on the partial debug build
[16:54] Jei SVC-212 Well, i spent 6 years investigating what Second Life could offer in game functionality without the normal functionality interfering with a game environment... Sit target objects just wern't able to cut it... If they did, all my volume detect'd be phantom only...
[16:55] Sylver Bu @Falcon; What do you mean by setting up our regions for pathfinding..?
[16:56] Falcon Linden Sylver: Marking objects as walkable or static obstacles. See the links Lorca provided above to the Getting Started and Viewer Tools guides
[16:56] Falcon Linden It's very simple to do
[16:56] Falcon Linden And is not "one linkset at a time"
[16:56] Sylver Bu Okie Dokie :D thank you. I favorited those pages for review later on.
[16:56] Falcon Linden i.e., you can batch update your objects
[16:57] Falcon Linden 4 minutes!
[16:57] Sylver Bu !
[16:57] Falcon Linden D'oh, I forgot to open this UG with my standard opening!
[16:57] Lorca Linden just as a reminder, here are the main links :
[16:57] Rex Cronon btw. if somebody can't make it to this meeting where can the transcripts be found?
[16:57] Lorca Linden http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_Quick_Start_Guide
[16:57] Lorca Linden http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_Tools_in_the_Second_Life_Viewer
[16:57] Falcon Linden "No, no you can't have that feature. No, we're not going to implement that. And no, you won't be getting a unicorn, a rainbow, or a pot o' gold either!"
[16:57] Nal Falcon are you going to add this meeting to the UG page?
[16:57] Lorca Linden http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
[16:57] Lorca Linden viewer download is here :
[16:58] Moundsa Mayo But free ice cream is a possibility?
[16:58] MartinRJ Fayray Sylver Bu if you have your own region you can run the pathfinding server on it, if you request it
[16:58] Falcon Linden Rex/Nal: I'll be asking Lorca to handle that. He'll set create the wiki UG page and I'll send him the logs to post
[16:58] Dahlia Trimble not even a pony?
[16:58] MartinRJ Fayray that's what he meant
[16:58] FadeOut Razorfen falcon why your UG is still ain't there ? c: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups
[16:58] Lorca Linden I'll add a link for the logs from the main pathfinding page
[16:58] Sylver Bu IU've already submitted 2 of my regions for entry, Arcaniss my private dev sim, and Okarthel, my mainstore(i want to fiddle with pathfinding on its ground level as its fairly complex)
[16:58] Falcon Linden FadeOut: Because I've been too busy fixing Pathfinding bugs to create a wiki page :)
[16:58] twikie Adder NUTS COULD USE THE GOLD
[16:58] FadeOut Razorfen k
[16:59] twikie Adder dam caps lock
[16:59] Lorca Linden and please please, spread the word about the beta!
[16:59] Lorca Linden getting more people to help us test will really help us make this stable and polished for release
[16:59] Falcon Linden and mark your objects as static. I have ways of knowing which sims are doing that and which aren't, and the physics gods will hunt you down if you don't!
[16:59] Lorca Linden 90% or more of objects should be set to walkable or static obstacle for best performance
[16:59] Lorca Linden only objects that actually move should be set to dynamic obstacle
[17:00] Lorca Linden that's the most common cause of performance problems
[17:00] Falcon Linden Lorca just made that number up. For best performance, 100% of objects should be set to Walkable, Static Obstacle, Material Phantom, or Exclusion Volume
[17:00] Dahlia Trimble or the physics gremlins
[17:00] FadeOut Razorfen lol
[17:00] Falcon Linden but since that's not realistic, I'll accept a number as close as you can get :)
[17:00] Falcon Linden if you put some real effort into it :)
[17:00] Sylver Bu this will be very cool if we get rigs for non-avatar mesh... i saw that animated gremlin over there.. too bad that method uses up way too many resources visually.. x3
[17:00] Lorca Linden ;)
[17:01] Rex Cronon there r bullets that rezz things. should the rezzed things marked static?
[17:01] Falcon Linden Seriously though, the performance of your region is directly correlated with the number of "moveable obstacles" present (which everything is until you mark it otherwise)
[17:01] Falcon Linden err, inversely correlated*
[17:01] Falcon Linden Rex: nothing that moves can be marked as static
[17:01] Lorca Linden ok time is up all
[17:01] Lorca Linden thank you for coming to this user group
[17:01] Falcon Linden Rex: with the exception of objects that only move by way of prim animation and then, only the animated prims ahve shape type NONE
[17:01] Rex Cronon upon hitting someting the bullet dies but first rezes something
[17:01] Lorca Linden I hope to see you again next week, and that some of you join the beta
[17:01] Lorca Linden and help us test
[17:01] Nal Thanks for having the meeting.
[17:01] SMILE well, thansk Falcon and Lorca
[17:02] Sylver Bu Glad i could make it to the last half. Eagerly awaiting the future
[17:02] Lorca Linden bye all!
[17:02] Rex Cronon ok
[17:02] Dahlia Trimble ty Falcon and Lorca :)
[17:02] Falcon Linden Cheers!
[17:02] MartinRJ Fayray goodbye all:)
[17:02] Rex Cronon tc lorca
[17:02] Moundsa Mayo Falcon, Lorca, thanks for your time and hard work!
[17:02] Rex Cronon tc falcon
[17:02] Sylver Bu ..
[17:02] Sylver Bu Oh dear.
[17:02] Rex Cronon tc everybody
[17:02] Moundsa Mayo And Stinson!
[17:02] Rex Cronon have a ncie day
[17:02] Rex Cronon nice*
[17:02] Stinson Linden later All