Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-05-31

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Transcript for Thursday May 31, 2012

[16:01] Sandry Logan horatio come sit
[16:01] Lorca Linden hey all
[16:02] Falcon Linden so please report if that happens again and include the time and region
[16:02] Rex Cronon hi lorca
[16:02] TheBlack Box heya
[16:02] Lorca Linden so not too much officially on the agenda for this week
[16:02] Lorca Linden my main announcements are :
[16:02] Lorca Linden 1) we did a server code roll this morning that looks pretty stable so far
[16:03] Lorca Linden that means that 2) we will be moving over the next bunch of about 20 resident regions to the pathfinding channel tomorrow
[16:03] Dahlia Trimble you rolled to agni?
[16:03] Lorca Linden we did
[16:03] Dahlia Trimble oh maybe my robots are fixed then
[16:03] Lorca Linden this morning
[16:03] Lorca Linden my other announcement is that we have decided to impliment automatic transitioning into the edit / unfrozen mode for pathfinding
[16:04] Lorca Linden that is the last major feature planned before release
[16:04] TheBlack Box are PF-sims still all in debug-mode ? after Lorca turned Pathtest4 to non-debug mode it was offline all week
[16:04] Lorca Linden we believe that will simplify the builder workflow, esp on the mainland since people will not have access to the estate manager tools for pathfinding
[16:04] Mæstro Linden the non-debug build had a crasher
[16:04] Mæstro Linden well, any region would crash
[16:04] Mæstro Linden so that's why pathtest4 was offline
[16:04] M√¶stro Linden because it was crashed :)
[16:04] Nal automatic transitioning into the edit / unfrozen mode?
[16:05] TheBlack Box :) i feel guilty
[16:05] Lorca Linden that is correct, nalates
[16:05] Motor Loon automatic transitioning into the edit / unfrozen mode?
[16:05] Jonathan Yap Are you asking what that is all about?
[16:05] Lorca Linden we will detect when a resident takes an action that could change the navmesh
[16:05] Lorca Linden and automatically transition them into edit / unfrozen mode
[16:05] Falcon Linden All we know so far is that you won't need to explicitly "unfreeze" in order to modify navmeshy objects
[16:06] Motor Loon aha
[16:06] Mæstro Linden Falcon, that will only apply to viewer actions, right?
[16:06] Lorca Linden you will be able to manually trigger a nav-mesh regen with the pathfinding UI tools, and one will happen automatically after a set amount of time with no nav-mesh changing action. The time window is TBD
[16:06] Falcon Linden maestro: correct
[16:06] Mæstro Linden as in, if my LSL script tries to change the shape of a navmeshy object, it'll still fail
[16:06] Mæstro Linden when i'm frozen, at least
[16:06] Falcon Linden oh, actually, now that I think about it, we know even a little less
[16:06] Falcon Linden We're going to punt the rest of the conversation on modes until next user group
[16:06] Falcon Linden Suffice it to say, we're working on making it less invasive
[16:07] Motor Loon alrighty then
[16:07] Lorca Linden we are still hashing out some of the details so I agree with falcon that now is not the time to get into the weeds on the automatic build mode transition
[16:07] Nal So, any builder working in an area, say on a house, will be able to affect Navmesh?
[16:07] Dahlia Trimble just checked my robot on agni, seems to be working properly now
[16:07] Falcon Linden Nal: That's true already
[16:07] Rex Cronon in what way is it invasive?
[16:07] Lorca Linden but this change should alleviate alot of the concerns people have been posting on blogs about pathfinding's effect on mainland regions / large exisitng builds
[16:08] Lorca Linden ok that topic is now closed for this user group ;)
[16:08] Motor Loon hehe
[16:08] Motor Loon suspects that may have to be said a few more times
[16:08] Dahlia Trimble so non-pathfinding TPV viewers should be able to edit objects?
[16:08] Falcon Linden We have not determined how that will work yet
[16:09] Falcon Linden Any questions not related to viewer interaction? :)
[16:09] Nal I asked about Havok License in Oz's meeting. Seems that is still in process. But, hoped to be resolved by PF roll... or shortly after.
[16:10] Motor Loon good news
[16:10] TheBlack Box just the debug-mode thing again .. is that solved now ? is there a non-crasher sim with PF and without dbug-mode available for testing ?
[16:11] Falcon Linden the bug has been resolved, yes
[16:11] TheBlack Box i'd like to shoot pf-creatures without crashing the sim :)
[16:11] TheBlack Box kk Pathtest4 ?
[16:11] Falcon Linden theblack: use llCastRay :P
[16:11] Motor Loon castray still has bugs, I had to stop using it on my boats
[16:12] TheBlack Box hehe ... noone sells Castray weapons yet i think :) that one didnt work according to plan afaik :)
[16:12] Sandry Logan is there something i can do to control how close a character gets to its when target using llNavigateTo?
[16:12] Falcon Linden motor: really? I haven't seen any jiras about that
[16:12] Falcon Linden sandry: use a different point?
[16:13] Motor Loon I'll see if I can find one...
[16:13] Falcon Linden motor: because the limits are basically disabled on pf regions
[16:13] Dahlia Trimble limits?
[16:13] TheBlack Box castray in general seemed to work well when i tested ... the low resolution on small prims is a bit of a bummer ... but it worked
[16:14] Sandry Logan well, lets say the red box is my pathfinding dog and i want him to get on his bed (the blue square)
[16:14] Red Box near
[16:14] Red Box here
[16:14] Motor Loon oh talking about jiras... can one of you lindens take a quick look at VWR-14674 it suddenly seemed to be a permissions violation when I try to access it
[16:14] Jira Helper Status 499
[16:14] Falcon Linden theblack: low resolution? It uses the physics shape exactly
[16:14] Motor Loon I suspect by accident
[16:14] Sandry Logan it barely gets onto the edge of it
[16:15] TheBlack Box Falcon: small spheres look like crystals to cast ray
[16:15] Falcon Linden ah. Yeah, an object will consider itself at the goal when it's within one character radius, iirc
[16:15] And all I got was this lousy DN most ER jiras are closed
[16:15] Motor Loon https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7603
[16:15] Jira Helper [#SVC-7603] llCastRay fails, when sitting on object that has crossed simborder https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7603
[16:15] Motor Loon that was the one causing me problems atleast...
[16:15] Falcon Linden theblack: something else is wrong there since spheres are always represented as true spheres with correct raycast properties in the engine
[16:15] Falcon Linden motor: shouldn't happen on PF regions since the whole cast ray resource pool system is off
[16:16] Motor Loon I see
[16:16] Motor Loon that going to stay like that for all regions when PF hits full grid?
[16:16] TheBlack Box Falcon: then we found a problem ... i tested that a lot for a llCastRay-based scanner that creates collada-files .... small spheres do absolutly not look like sphere in castray :)
[16:16] Falcon Linden theblack: that was done intentionally so that you could llNavigateTo and object's position even if it was, e.g., a pole or a box or something
[16:16] Falcon Linden theblack: jirafy
[16:17] Falcon Linden Motor: yes
[16:17] Falcon Linden Motor: unless we discover it causing problems
[16:17] Falcon Linden but I don't expect that to happen
[16:17] Motor Loon ok
[16:17] Motor Loon good news
[16:17] Dahlia Trimble how small?
[16:17] TheBlack Box hmm ... i might .. kinda busy with other stuff these days .. but i will go into castray again somewhen
[16:17] Mæstro Linden for SVC-7603, the raycast could be occurring when the script hasnt' crossed into the new region yet
[16:17] Mæstro Linden so it's currently casting into the void
[16:18] Mæstro Linden and not hitting anything
[16:18] Mæstro Linden that should behave better when neighboring regions share collision shapes
[16:18] Dahlia Trimble it would seem a waste to have a very accurate physics shape for small objects
[16:19] Rex Cronon u could scan snowflakes with raycast:)
[16:19] TheBlack Box Dahlia: that depends ... it it is a parametric shere the size wouldnt matter would it ?
[16:19] Falcon Linden dahlia: a sphere is as simple a physics object as you can get
[16:19] Dahlia Trimble agreed
[16:19] Dahlia Trimble its just a point and a radius
[16:19] Falcon Linden almost anything else we turn into a box at very small scales
[16:20] TheBlack Box right ... but that is not what i observed ... will look at it again somewhen soonish and jirafy
[16:21] Falcon Linden Well, if there are no other questions, we can wrap up early and get back to work :)
[16:21] Lorca Linden i have nothing else on the agenda
[16:22] Dahlia Trimble when do we get pathfinding NPCs with animated meshes? o.0
[16:22] Jonathan Yap I have a little question--my pathfinding character goes around about 0.2m above the ground -- should I write a jira for this?
[16:22] any1 Gynoid I was wondering about ... the wierd thing... that happens...
[16:22] Falcon Linden jonathan: no, you should adjust the visible shapes down by 0.2m
[16:22] any1 Gynoid PF characters seem to zoom off to infinity.. .. sometimes...
[16:22] Falcon Linden any1: oh no, not the wierd thing!
[16:22] Jonathan Yap Thanks Falcon
[16:22] Motor Loon lol
[16:22] any1 Gynoid but really don't .. it's just optical illusion..
[16:22] Falcon Linden any1: we'll need to push releasing pathfinding off until at least 2017 to fix /that/ thing!
[16:23] And all I got was this lousy DN sounds good to me
[16:23] Sandry Logan is there anywhere we can read about what changes are in new server or viewer releases? (pathfinding as opposed to 'regular' release notes)
[16:23] And all I got was this lousy DN will the physics stub be avalibe then sometime 2020?
[16:23] And all I got was this lousy DN :P
[16:24] Lorca Linden sandry we will start posting build notes to the wiki
[16:24] Lorca Linden the main pathfinding wiki
[16:24] Falcon Linden sandry: that depends, do you have access to our internal network? :P
[16:24] Jonathan Yap http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Server_Release_Notes
[16:25] Motor Loon your bird crap alot Mr.box
[16:25] Sandry Logan no, not that i am aware
[16:25] Falcon Linden Lorca: thanks for volunteering to write those up, that's awesome! :)
[16:25] TheBlack Box Motor: yes but the plants will eat it :)
[16:25] Lorca Linden lol
[16:25] Sandry Logan jonathan thank you, are the pathfinding server notes in there too?
[16:25] Motor Loon kinda makes me glad I'm not a plant
[16:25] Lorca Linden and if you all have any neat pathfinding builds to show us
[16:25] Falcon Linden I'll show you the script that will dump all the commit logs and you can parse those 800 or so into a nice pretty doc :)
[16:25] Lorca Linden please do tell!
[16:25] Falcon Linden Yes! We want to see cool pathfinding things!
[16:25] Falcon Linden Lots of things!
[16:26] Jonathan Yap Sandry, I don't think so
[16:26] TheBlack Box shall i puch it a bit ? get a bit of an ecosystem going around us ? :))
[16:26] TheBlack Box dont shoot the brids, thou ,,, that crashes the sim if it is in debug-mode (collsisions)
[16:26] Jonathan Yap For viewer : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Release_Notes
[16:28] Falcon Linden theblack: if shooting the birds still crashes, let us know
[16:28] Lorca Linden before next user group if you want to place some critters / PF objects out for show and tell
[16:28] Lorca Linden that would be awesome
[16:28] TheBlack Box kk ...
[16:28] Motor Loon o.O
[16:28] Motor Loon Falcon on a mission
[16:28] Dahlia Trimble any word on a in-world group for pathfinding?
[16:29] blue marker Distance to red box: 1.066388
[16:29] TheBlack Box falcon: try shotguns for stress-testing
[16:29] Motor Loon birdkilla
[16:29] Falcon Linden I don't have one
[16:29] Lorca Linden no update on that @ this moment, Dahlia
[16:30] Lorca Linden any other questions?
[16:30] Lorca Linden otherwise, I'm going to call this a wrap
[16:33] Shimmering Rift /me emits a burst of static.
[16:33] Second Life Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/LI%20Devbox%202/133/100/23
[16:33] TheBlack Box sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry
[16:33] TheBlack Box sorry sorry
[16:33] Lorca Linden it's ok ;)
[16:34] And all I got was this lousy DN i did have one quick question
[16:34] TheBlack Box ummm ... still crashes the sim ;)
[16:34] Yuzuru Sim crashed?
[16:34] Lorca Linden apprently so mr box
[16:34] And all I got was this lousy DN when do you think a [hysics stub will be avalible so we can compile the source?
[16:34] Horatio whispers: Greeting TheBlack .
[16:34] TheBlack Box :(
[16:35] Rex Cronon somebody shot the birds?
[16:35] Horatio whispers: Greeting Lorca .
[16:35] TheBlack Box shotgun ... yeah
[16:35] Ima Mechanique wow, that crash was so hard, even my mushrooms got sent home
[16:35] Yuzuru Falcon?
[16:35] Dahlia Trimble didi sim crash?
[16:35] Ima Mechanique no need for me to clean up then.
[16:35] Lorca Linden it did
[16:35] TheBlack Box sim got rolled back yeah .. i think that is part of debug-mode (?)
[16:35] Ima Mechanique bye all
[16:35] Lorca Linden bye ima
[16:35] Horatio whispers: Greeting Dahlia .
[16:35] Rex Cronon tc ima
[16:36] Dahlia Trimble Hi Horatio, bye Ima :)
[16:36] Horatio whispers: Greeting Rex .
[16:36] And all I got was this lousy DN did you see my question, lorca?
[16:36] Rex Cronon hi oratio
[16:36] TheBlack Box Horatio need a properly sized capsule
[16:36] Lorca Linden I did, give me one sec tankmaster, checking on that date
[16:37] And all I got was this lousy DN ok thx
[16:37] Horatio whispers: Greeting Draconis .
[16:37] Sandry Logan he has a problem when he can't get to a location. the parcel that dahlia and rex ae in, he cannot navigate to
[16:37] Sandry Logan horatio come
[16:37] Sandry Logan horatio go theblack sit
[16:37] Rex Cronon who is horation?
[16:37] Rex Cronon the white bear?
[16:38] Sandry Logan yes
[16:38] TheBlack Box sorry again to all ... i would have shot the bird ... a linden told me it would been fixed :)
[16:38] Horatio whispers: Greeting Yuzuru .
[16:38] Horatio whispers: Noticed Rex
[16:38] Lorca Linden OK, i'll have an update for that next user group tank
[16:39] Rex Cronon hey. the lindens said it might be ok to shoot them:)
[16:39] Lorca Linden lol rex
[16:39] And all I got was this lousy DN sounds good, thx
[16:39] TheBlack Box :)
[16:39] Dahlia Trimble so shooting them crashed the sim? lol
[16:39] Rex Cronon ok. no shoot the lindens. shoot the birds:0
[16:39] Lorca Linden ok thanks all
[16:39] Rex Cronon :)
[16:39] Sandry Logan horatio explore 50
[16:39] Lorca Linden see you next week!
[16:40] Rex Cronon tc lorca
[16:40] TheBlack Box Dahlia yes ... i have been told that is related to collisions in debug-mode
[16:40] Lorca Linden and please let us know if there are neat builds for us to check out
[16:40] Sandry Logan bye Lorca
[16:40] Lorca Linden we really like to see cool PF areas / critters
[16:40] TheBlack Box http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAhrf2MHepY
[16:40] Lorca Linden you can email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com with the SLurl
[16:40] Lorca Linden thanks!
[16:40] Rex Cronon is unatural for asuch a small vear to move so fast
[16:40] TheBlack Box thats a longer video of the evo/eco stuff
[16:41] Lorca Linden very cool, I will definitely watch that
[16:41] Lorca Linden alright I'm out all, thanks!
[16:41] Rex Cronon tc everybody and have a nice day
[16:41] TheBlack Box thanks for the OH
[16:41] Rex Cronon :)
[16:41] TheBlack Box see you
[16:41] Lorca Linden till next time
[16:41] Dahlia Trimble ty lindens :)
[16:41] TheBlack Box and i ll try not to crash the sims here all the time :)
[16:41] Lorca Linden ;)