Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.02.25

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Arawn Spitteler Ardy Lay
Ashiri Sands Bygone Uram Ciaran Laval
Cummere Mayo Desdemona Enfield Draconis Neurocam
Flip Idlemind Kaluura Boa Liisa Runo
Marianne McCann Moon Metty RedMokum Bravin
Saer Genosse Shepard Vyper Sigma Avro
Simon Linden Thickbrick Sleaford

Transcript

[16:02] Arawn Spitteler looks about for Fancy Linden, again: Hi, Andrew

[16:02] Ashiri Sands: try and see?

[16:02] Draconis Neurocam: Heya Andrew

[16:02] Arawn Spitteler: Try and see, as Ashiri says. Are the rules viewer or server side?

[16:02] Ashiri Sands: as least you won't get a suspension for gaming display names =^_~=

[16:02] Andrew Linden: Hello.

[16:02] Saer Genosse: On behalf of my hair, pardon (but I'm not taking it off lol

[16:02] Andrew Linden: Hey Simon, I thought you were going to be out today.

[16:03] Simon Linden: They must be enforced server-side, otherwise it's pointless to have the rules

[16:03] Simon Linden: I was planning on skiing, but the highway's been closed for most of the day

[16:03] Arawn Spitteler: If it's part of Viewer 2, then Pointless is a likelyhood

[16:04] Moon Metty: the highway is closed because of snow?

[16:04] Simon Linden: yeah, we had a pretty good storm come into northern california last night and today

[16:04] Arawn Spitteler: The highway is closed, because the governor doesn't want to share the slopes

[16:04] RedMokum Bravin: Hmmm how come we can use display chars in group titles that are not possible in display names?

[16:05] Arawn Spitteler: Can we use Alt Char?

[16:06] Moon Metty: did Andrew get stuck on the highway?

[16:06] Moon Metty: oh!

[16:06] Moon Metty: i didn't see you hehe

[16:06] Moon Metty: hi Andrew

[16:06] Andrew Linden: Sorry, was customizing my prefs for a moment. Had to reinstall the viewer today.

[16:06] Arawn Spitteler: No, he got stuck where he licked the railing

[16:06] Andrew Linden: Ok so news...

[16:07] RedMokum Bravin: 1970?

[16:07] Andrew Linden: The 1970 date problem for "Top Scripts" is caused by the threaded rez code.

[16:08] Andrew Linden: Maestro Linden was able to verfiy that today.

[16:08] Andrew Linden: However it doesn't seem to affect the autoreturn stuff... the date has to do with the script rather than the object, I think.

[16:08] RedMokum Bravin: Ok.

[16:08] Andrew Linden: There is a jira number for that 1970 problem. If anyone knows what it is go ahead and say if for the record.

[16:09] Cummere Mayo chuckles... Im already here arawn

[16:09] Draconis Neurocam: i thought auto return only counted how long the object has been there for, not the creation date

[16:09] Andrew Linden: Earlier this week there were questions about using web profiles on the beta grid.

[16:09] Andrew Linden: I asked around and was pointed to this wiki page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Preview_Grid#Using_Web_Profiles_on_ADITI

[16:10] Andrew Linden: ATM you have to hack your viewer prefs to use the aditi web profiles, but eventually it will work automatically.

[16:10] Arawn Spitteler can't get web profiles on Agni

[16:10] Ciaran Laval: Hi Mari

[16:10] Marianne McCann: Hey Ciaran

[16:11] Andrew Linden: I put up some custom code to try to debug SVC-6766 on aditi

[16:11] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6766

[#SVC-6766] Since Feb 8th Server Rollout to main simulator isn't reliably sending inventory item UUID for attachments

[16:11] Ardy Lay: SVC-6758

[16:11] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6758

[#SVC-6758] 4 Items in sim are showing the rezzed in sim date of thur Jan 1 00:00:00 1970

[16:11] Andrew Linden: but the problem has gone away

[16:12] Andrew Linden: which means it will probably come back someday

[16:12] Sigma Avro: yep

[16:12] Andrew Linden: thanks for that jira # Ardy

[16:12] Ardy Lay: You are welcome

[16:13] Andrew Linden: I think someone was asking about the "bumps and pushes" not getting sent to the viewer anymore.

[16:13] Flip Idlemind: Oskar Linden was asking that

[16:13] Andrew Linden: I started looking into that and got sidetracked. Maybe I'll get back to it next week.

[16:13] Ardy Lay: SVC-6786

[16:13] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6786

[#SVC-6786] Pushes, bumps and hits no longer registers on any viewer

[16:13] Andrew Linden: One of my projects went up for RC this week, on the Magnum channel.

[16:14] Andrew Linden: The "faster object delete" project

[16:14] Liisa Runo: cool

[16:14] Andrew Linden: which started out as a hunt for some resource leaks... I didn't find any definite ones

[16:14] Andrew Linden: but I did clean up some code

[16:15] Andrew Linden: Xan Linden may run some stats on that channel next week to see if any of my work actually makes a difference.

[16:15] Andrew Linden: meanwhile, we've got another project getting ready for the RC queue

[16:15] Ardy Lay: I don't use delete much. I set stuff to temporary and let the reaper have it, avoiding the creation of inventory items and asset files just to discard them.

[16:16] Andrew Linden: some optimizations from Simon (faster UDP messages) and a relatively big mix of under the hood fixes from a bunch of LL devs

[16:16] Moon Metty: i use temp too, but sometimes i'm too lazy to do all the clicks

[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: the reaper still uses the delete code i would imagine ardy

[16:16] Andrew Linden: I think it is up on aditi now... on the "DRTSIM-39" channel in case anyone is interested.

[16:16] Sigma Avro: where is this avalaible Andrew ?

[16:16] Arawn Spitteler: How can we search by Channel?

[16:17] Andrew Linden: I thought there was a web page that would let you find regions by channel.... but maybe it is agni only...

[16:17] Ardy Lay: http://www.gridsurvey.com/ Click RD Server Regions bottom right

[16:17] Sigma Avro: ok

[16:17] Ardy Lay: RC

[16:17] Andrew Linden: I think it was a third party website... I'll see if I can find it. Oh yeah, gridsurvey.com

[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: llGetEnv or help about sl to get the channel version you are in

[16:18] Ciaran Laval: Tyche's site is awesome

[16:18] Andrew Linden: I haven't tried the website yet, so dunno if it works

[16:18] Sigma Avro: it does not for the region you said, if you said a region

[16:18] Ardy Lay: You get a big scary text file. Wondows users: Don't open it in notepad.exe. :-)

[16:18] Arawn Spitteler: Are we in Le Tigre?

[16:19] Ardy Lay: -Wondows +Windows (common typo for me)

[16:19] Flip Idlemind: Is it possible the llGetEnv function will, in the future, have new values it can return?

[16:19] Flip Idlemind: config.output.public

[16:19] FlipTool: Output set to public

[16:19] Flip Idlemind: info.sim

[16:19] FlipTool: Information:

Region

Name: Denby

Sim Version: 11.02.22.221781

Sim Channel: Second Life RC LeTigre

[16:19] Andrew Linden: Of course, Help --> About Second Life menu option will reveal the channel of the region you are in.

[16:19] Andrew Linden: I had some items for the agenda... lemme find my notes.

[16:19] RedMokum Bravin: Yes, just go to every single region and read that screen. :-p

[16:20] Sigma Avro: lol, have this also

[16:20] Saer Genosse: I am not a programmer, but I just built my first sim and have a question about the terrain texure altitudes,, thought someone here might know about

[16:20] Andrew Linden: There is some bug about how a coalesced item with trees in it will only allow you to rez on your own land

[16:20] Marianne McCann nods

[16:21] Andrew Linden: because trees (and grass) are "special" objects

[16:21] RedMokum Bravin: If they are Linden trees, right?

[16:21] Marianne McCann: As Linden Trees are only rezzable by land owner / group with rights

[16:21] Sigma Avro: so, they should not be coalesced, right ?

[16:21] Andrew Linden: I'm wondering... should trees and grass remain special in this way?

[16:21] Andrew Linden: that is, you can only rez on land you own?

[16:21] Draconis Neurocam: i dont see why they would need to be honestly

[16:21] Ciaran Laval: Yes Linden trees require special group perms

[16:21] Ardy Lay: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6775

[16:21] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-6775] returned coalesced item will not rez..."cannot rez plants on this land"

[16:21] RedMokum Bravin: No, it's often the cause we can't find other things back.

[16:22] Andrew Linden: Yes Sigma... perhaps a solution is to filter the trees and grass out of coalesced objects and store them as a separate asset

[16:22] Andrew Linden: or maybe not save them to asset at all

[16:22] Marianne McCann: I don't ee why, long as they're subject to the usual garbage collection and build/no build rules

[16:22] Liisa Runo: if you change them not to be saved in coalesed object something will break

[16:22] Marianne McCann: Saer - what about ground textures?

[16:22] Andrew Linden: another way trees and grass are special is the you can't click+drag to select them in the viewer

[16:22] Arawn Spitteler: The rule difference let me think htey might not count as rims, or something?

[16:22] Andrew Linden: at least, not the official viewer

[16:22] Draconis Neurocam: i think them not being saved to asset would be bad, wouldnt that cause problems with things that rez trees and such via script?

[16:23] Marianne McCann: Agreed, Liisa

[16:23] Draconis Neurocam: i remember yadni made something a while ago

[16:23] Draconis Neurocam: like that

[16:23] RedMokum Bravin: Is the default still that they no longer move in the wind?

[16:23] Saer Genosse: does anyone know why the way terrain textures lay on the sim map change at different times of day,, with no change in the estate box to the numbers ?

[16:23] Marianne McCann: Correct, Red - but turn onable via debug

[16:23] Andrew Linden: dunno RedMokum, but wavy trees is a viewer feature

[16:24] Marianne McCann: Cuz ground textures stink

[16:24] Saer Genosse: it apprears that the numbers have changed, but they havent

[16:24] Marianne McCann: They're not consistant

[16:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: Is the reason for trees rez restrictions that they are harder to select in the viewer than prim objects?

[16:24] RedMokum Bravin: (It's always the first feature I turn on, after turning off typing anim)

[16:24] Saer Genosse: so is this classified as a bug?

[16:24] Marianne McCann: Red - it's about #3 for me, after uping renderVolumeLOD and RenderTreeLOD

[16:24] Andrew Linden: Saer, I think the ground texture thing is a very old "bug", probably a bad design from very early in the SL implementation

[16:25] Saer Genosse: ok thank you, at least now I know ; )

[16:25] Arawn Spitteler: How do we check the jira? It might be good excersize for Saer, if there isn't one.

[16:25] Marianne McCann: Ya. It's very frustrating to get any expected result from ground textures

[16:25] Ardy Lay: It's kinda strange watching the grass line on the beach wax and wane through the day.

[16:25] Saer Genosse: yes

[16:25] Andrew Linden: I don't know where that ground texture code is... it must be controlled from the server...

[16:26] Saer Genosse: I thought someone was messing with the sim

[16:26] Sigma Avro: does it occur on islands ? have not observed this

[16:26] Andrew Linden: otherwise the ground texture details would look different to different people

[16:26] Marianne McCann: They do look different

[16:26] Saer Genosse: I've seen it on islands many times

[16:26] RedMokum Bravin: Sometimes patches of it loose their colour... on some mainland sims more often.

[16:26] Andrew Linden: oh really?

[16:26] Thickbrick Sleaford: there's some perlin noise inseted in the viewer, I Think

[16:26] Marianne McCann: I can stand next to someone on the beach in Livingtree, and I'll see sand, they'll see grass. Next time we log in, that might be reversed

[16:26] Sigma Avro: seems more viewer linked. well nt sure

[16:27] Andrew Linden: two people log into the exact same spot and see different texture blending on the terrain?

[16:27] Simon Linden: The textures are sent with some compression ... that's why you'll see some ugly bumps at a sharp cliff too

[16:27] Marianne McCann: correct

[16:27] Simon Linden: ... err, that's height data

[16:27] Ciaran Laval: I'vAh Mari that's an old issue, I get that in Secret agent N

[16:27] Simon Linden: but the textures are compressed images

[16:27] Ciaran Laval: wow typo city

[16:27] Marianne McCann: So I would presume some of that is viewer side

[16:27] Andrew Linden: yes, this is perlin noise. It must be using new random data for the blending

[16:27] RedMokum Bravin: Wasn't Jpeg2000 used for that?

[16:27] Thickbrick Sleaford: There were a bunch if identical linden sims on the map a while ago that showed this - each one looked a bit different.

[16:28] Sigma Avro: patches are only 512 * 512

[16:28] Andrew Linden: ok so the changing ground texture problem is a viewer bug

[16:28] Sigma Avro: and terraind details indeed maybe much tinner

[16:28] RedMokum Bravin: It's often set at 0.5 I believe.

[16:28] Andrew Linden: someone needs to patch the viewer to use a known seed when generating its random input to the perlin noise system.

[16:29] Sigma Avro: (lol, what is this perlin ? would be nice to have a link, if posible)

[16:29] Andrew Linden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlin_noise

[16:30] Sigma Avro: tks,

[16:30] Andrew Linden: it is a way to use random noise sample + algorithm to generate textures

[16:30] Ardy Lay: MISC-1056

[16:30] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1056

[#MISC-1056] Terrain Textures Drift

[16:31] Andrew Linden: if you have an interesting enough algorithm you can generate realistic textures with many different looks and applications

[16:31] Ardy Lay: STORM-942

[16:31] Andrew Linden: even animated textures, such as flames

[16:31] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-942

[#STORM-942] Make texture blending deterministic to prevent terrain texture drift

[16:31] Andrew Linden: it all depends on how your algorithm samples the data

[16:32] Saer Genosse: well it's nice to know I got the drift! lolol

[16:32] Sigma Avro: ok, interesting, tks

[16:32] Saer Genosse: thought it was gremlins

[16:32] Andrew Linden: I'll open the table up in case anyone has brought something for the agenda today.

[16:33] Sigma Avro: well, last time we talked about llTeleportAgent<home...

[16:33] Sigma Avro: ...but, there is no way to impeach someone tpo "make home here" in generalm. Seemed to me there was this bvefore, but I have mistaken

[16:34] Sigma Avro: so, cant be used safely

[16:34] Andrew Linden: I don't remember talking about it.

[16:34] Andrew Linden: "impeach someone to make home here"?

[16:34] RedMokum Bravin: (wasn't that at Oskar's, Sigma?)

[16:34] Sigma Avro: well, in any case, the question was about asking permission or allowing new feature llTeleportAgent(soemwhere)

[16:35] Andrew Linden: Heh, all of these User Groups start to blur together.

[16:35] Sigma Avro: no RekMokum, seems it was here, but I maybe wrong

[16:35] Flip Idlemind: There's always ejecting and banning if you just want someone gone

[16:35] Andrew Linden: The llTeleportAgent() design idea hurts my head.

[16:35] Sigma Avro: me too, lol

[16:35] Andrew Linden: I remember we had a big debat about it years ago.

[16:36] Andrew Linden: There were some blocker objections to it, so it never got off the ground

[16:36] Andrew Linden: despite the fact that it would be very cool for some applications

[16:36] Draconis Neurocam: if you made it a permission, i dont see how it would hurt

[16:36] Flip Idlemind: Would be useful for people who don't wanna use RLV because it's too kinky

[16:36] Flip Idlemind: Gyaahaahah ooooh

[16:36] Ciaran Laval: Agree with Draconis, if permission is sought it has potential

[16:37] Sigma Avro: yes that is the point, make the permission or not, and furthermore, to tp to an allowed place (owned by the prim owner)

[16:37] RedMokum Bravin: (By the way speaking of teleport: the slurl for this location on the wiki still sends us into the water.)

[16:37] Sigma Avro: and furthermore, there is maturity problems

[16:37] Sigma Avro: *rating

[16:37] Desdemona Enfield: If you have a group of cooperating people, the RLv extension in TPVs can be used to teleport people to specific locations. You could implement specific RLV relays for just the aspects of RLv which you wish to use.

[16:37] Draconis Neurocam: just tie it into the same mechanism for intersim teleport that the viewer uses for doubleclick teleports, and maybe have the same landing point limitations

[16:37] Andrew Linden: Yeah, the feature idea needs some thought.

[16:38] Andrew Linden: Meanwhile, it is nearly impossible for me to actually work on features these days...

[16:38] Ashiri Sands: would it relate in any way to the code used when a friend sends a TP?

[16:38] Desdemona Enfield: It's the Joys of Management, Andrew, smiles.

[16:38] Andrew Linden: I still haven't made Sebastean's request for llUniformScale() method, which should be much easier of a design project.

[16:39] Draconis Neurocam: that would be nice

[16:39] Andrew Linden: Yeah, one script for resizable hair.

[16:39] Ciaran Laval: Have you been promoted Andrew? Promotion often leads to more admin less fun

[16:39] Saer Genosse: lol

[16:39] Draconis Neurocam: you can already do it with one script

[16:39] Draconis Neurocam: its just complex

[16:39] Andrew Linden: No, I'm still a C++ dev, but lots of maintenance stuff to do.

[16:40] Draconis Neurocam: llsetlinkprimitiveparamsfast and a lot of math

[16:40] Desdemona Enfield: llSet/GetLinkPrimitiveParams() are now available.

[16:40] Flip Idlemind: "llsetlinkprimitiveparamsfast" sure does take a long time to type for something that's meant to be fast

[16:40] Flip Idlemind: Gyaahaahah ooooh

[16:40] Andrew Linden: Oh yeah that's right, it can be done with one prim, but it is a bit messy.

[16:40] Sigma Avro: yes, by the way, the llGetPrimParams, all of them, do not reproduce all shapes of prims, it is anoying

[16:40] Desdemona Enfield: Not really a lot of math. Just rescaling locations ands size in teh root frame.

[16:41] Sigma Avro: have tried to script one of my sculptures, and cant'

[16:41] Moon Metty: SVC-5419

[16:41] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5419

[#SVC-5419] Add flag parameter [vector slice] to llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_TYPE flags PRIM_TYPE_BOX, PRIM_TYPE_CYLINDER, and PRIM_TYPE_PRISM

[16:41] Liisa Runo: There are plenty of new LSL features we desperately need. Rescale is not one of them since we can already do it.

[16:42] nicole12353: hello

[16:42] RedMokum Bravin: I would like to be able to delete scripts from non-mod objects finally.

[16:42] Kaluura Boa: Getting and setting slice would be more useful

[16:42] Ciaran Laval: Liisa I'd say it's a nice to have and should be lower priority

[16:42] Draconis Neurocam: i forget the jira but even just having a rescale only permission would solve the problem just as well i would think

[16:43] Kaluura Boa: Touching the perms system? Tricky!

[16:43] Sigma Avro: taper causes problems as well. But I think not so easy top complete the spheres and cyleidzers definition in a way compatible with viewer build UI

[16:43] Sigma Avro: *cylinders

[16:43] Andrew Linden: Yeah, there isn't much room in the perms system to add new bits. That would be hard.

[16:44] Marianne McCann: ((gotta excuse myself. Take care, all))

[16:44] Andrew Linden: Well... maybe not. That perm doesn't make sense for inv items and items in contents. It might be possible.

[16:44] Kaluura Boa: I don't even remember when slice was introduced... and we still can't script it...

[16:44] Ashiri Sands: cya Marianne

[16:44] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!

[16:44] Ciaran Laval: Bye Mari

[16:45] Sigma Avro: night

[16:45] Draconis Neurocam: theres tons of other things you can do to prims that scripts have no idea about, just look at the extra prim types in phoenix and previously emerald

[16:45] Arawn Spitteler: Slice is Dimple, on a cube?

[16:45] Draconis Neurocam: yeah arawn

[16:45] Arawn Spitteler: Prim Torture is the mislimitation there.

[16:45] Ashiri Sands: I think it is how slicing used to be done

[16:45] Kaluura Boa: Yep!

[16:46] Sigma Avro: there are some discontinuities occuring in prim tortureing in world , seems to me.

[16:46] Arawn Spitteler: I think Slice would require a new prim type, to preserve old content

[16:46] Draconis Neurocam: andrew i have a question maybe you can answer, what the heck is a demon and oracle prim?

[16:46] Draconis Neurocam: ive seen it in the code

[16:47] Draconis Neurocam: they are object types commented out in the viewer

[16:47] Kaluura Boa: I haven't found any infos about the extra prims of Phoenix... And I will definitively not instal this on my system...

[16:47] Arawn Spitteler: Are these Database Daemons and Oracles?

[16:47] Desdemona Enfield: I think the phoenix extra prims are just preloaded sculpts.

[16:47] Draconis Neurocam: they arnt desdemona

[16:47] Ardy Lay: Maxwell's demon?

[16:48] Draconis Neurocam: i was an emerald dev, and have looked at the code myself

[16:48] Sigma Avro: dont know what we are talking about. A few words maybe ?

[16:48] Desdemona Enfield: ty, Draconis.. sorry.. I should look before leaping.

[16:49] Sigma Avro: oh, yes, understood

[16:49] Andrew Linden: I think were were talking about prim parameters that cannot be modified by scripts.

[16:49] Sigma Avro: Yes, that is another point. Not linked to extra prims I think

[16:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: const S8 DEMON = 'M'; // Maxwell's demon for scarfing legacy_object_types.h

[16:49] Sigma Avro: Well, I dont know if somthing could be done about it Andrew ?

[16:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: now it's all clear... (not)

[16:50] Ardy Lay: Loks like the legacy object types are commented out of the legace type case structure.

[16:50] Andrew Linden: hehe, the DEMON type is very very legacy

[16:50] Andrew Linden: from 2002

[16:50] Draconis Neurocam: what did it look like?

[16:51] Draconis Neurocam: or do

[16:51] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I don't remember. I don't think the DEMON had a physical (visible) form

[16:51] Draconis Neurocam: ah

[16:51] Bygone Uram: I'm off, bye all, ty

[16:51] Draconis Neurocam: what about the oracle?

[16:51] Saer Genosse: thanks for the input, everyone take care ; )

[16:51] Andrew Linden: the idea was this... (in retrospect a bad idea)...

[16:52] Ardy Lay: Used to be able to drop some stuff in world that you can't now. Scripts and textures, for example. They were rendered as icons.

[16:52] Andrew Linden: There was going to be a generalized chunk of code that "did things" in the order in which they were on a list

[16:52] Andrew Linden: and we would just make a big list of the "tasks" that needed to be done

[16:53] Andrew Linden: the code would pull something off the list, figure out what kind of thing it was and what needed to be done, and would then call the right code

[16:53] Shepard Vyper: That's pretty cool.

[16:53] Andrew Linden: so the simulator frame would just be one big general loop with lots of special case callbacks, depending on the "task" type

[16:54] Andrew Linden: so the DEMON was going to be what did the cleanup of old objects

[16:54] Draconis Neurocam: ah

[16:54] Andrew Linden: think... "temp on rez reaper"

[16:54] Sigma Avro: oh, !

[16:54] Draconis Neurocam: thats awesome to know actually

[16:54] Andrew Linden: way back then objects were "breakable"

[16:54] Draconis Neurocam: not useful, but amazing

[16:54] Andrew Linden: and very old objects might just vanish

[16:54] Arawn Spitteler: Shouldn't the wiki contain such history?

[16:54] Draconis Neurocam: so the oracle rezzed objects then?

[16:55] Andrew Linden: yeah, this was back when the prototype we *thought* we would build would be a more "natural and evolved" scene

[16:55] Andrew Linden: with plants, rocks, and animals

[16:55] Andrew Linden: dynamic water, weather, and such

[16:55] Draconis Neurocam: ators and birds

[16:55] RedMokum Bravin: http://lalotelling.blogspot.com/p/sl-history.html

[16:55] Andrew Linden: correct Draconis

[16:56] Andrew Linden: What actually happened was the code was made much more specialized for performance reasons

[16:56] Ardy Lay: LLTASK_GHOST = 17, // a ghost (Boo!)

[16:56] Kaluura Boa: Talking about water... Would it be possible (in a distant future) to apply water texture on prims?

[16:56] Ardy Lay: Hehe

[16:56] Andrew Linden: and "unecessary" stuff was pulled out because it was more expensive than it was worth (dynamic water for example)

[16:57] RedMokum Bravin: Sounds awesome though.

[16:57] Draconis Neurocam: im glad it was left in commented out for posterity though

[16:57] Arawn Spitteler: Is water texture on the asset list, Kaluura?

[16:57] RedMokum Bravin: If anyone is nearby to actually see it.

[16:57] Kaluura Boa: I'm talking about "real" water... Not a crappy texture

[16:57] Andrew Linden: also, the "killer app" aspect of "LindenWorld" (the name at that time) was discovered to be user created content

[16:57] RedMokum Bravin: Real water is bad for computers.

[16:57] Andrew Linden: Kaluura, it is possible to do very nice water effects on modern graphics cards

[16:58] Andrew Linden: if we ever do water it will be a viewer effect

[16:58] Sigma Avro: lol, resindents were fgod at this time, potentially I mean

[16:58] Andrew Linden: maybe with some hinting from the server to say where the water is, but all the special effects will be viewer side

[16:58] Kaluura Boa: I don't mind if it's only a viewer effect... but I want to get rid of all those ugly waterfalls with animated texture

[16:59] RedMokum Bravin: waterfalls and lava ... lol

[16:59] Andrew Linden: yeah, so the object could contain some hints about how it is water and the viewer could render the water effects

[16:59] Andrew Linden: you want the "materials" feature set, with advanced particle effects

[17:00] Draconis Neurocam: the particle system is so under appretiated, and in need up upgrade

[17:00] Andrew Linden: over the years we've kicked around the idea of giving objects more varied "materials"... texture and bumpmaping effects that would be rendered by the viewer

[17:01] Andrew Linden: that is... surfaces with custom specular and bump mapping, and other effects that could be done with cell shading on GPU's

[17:01] Kaluura Boa: Bump mapping isn't a big visual success for the moment...

[17:01] Sigma Avro: yes options makes them already so client dependent that no one will see the initial intents of the builder

[17:01] Andrew Linden: er right... not bump mapping anymore, but cell shading

[17:01] Moon Metty: and normal maps

[17:02] Andrew Linden: that project is not underway... it wouldn't start until mesh is done, if ever

[17:02] Draconis Neurocam: specular maps, parallax maps, the possibilities

[17:02] Kaluura Boa: Who should we kick in the rear to get meshes out of the way?

[17:02] Andrew Linden: Ok, it's 17:00 and I've got to go do a code review.

[17:02] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.

[17:02] Cummere Mayo: tc andrew

[17:02] RedMokum Bravin: Thanks for your time.

[17:02] Draconis Neurocam: have fun andrew and simon

[17:02] Shepard Vyper: Bye, Andrew

[17:03] Ardy Lay: Thanks

[17:03] Moon Metty: thanks for the meeting Andrew and Simon :)

[17:03] Sigma Avro: 17h02, thanks for nice infos Andrw and Simon

[17:03] Desdemona Enfield: Thank you, Andrew, thank you, Simon.

[17:03] RedMokum Bravin: Have a nice weekend.

[17:03] Moon Metty: have a good weekend :)


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