Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.03.04

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Arawn Spitteler Ardy Lay
Ash Qin Ashiri Sands Bronson Blackadder
Clinton Oddfellow Cummere Mayo DogWomble Dollinger
Draconis Neurocam Gooden Uggla Hope Dreier
Jonathan Yap Kadah Coba Latif Khalifa
Liisa Runo Mobius Ryba Motor Loon
Opensource Obscure Patnad Babii Pauline Darkfury
Psi Merlin Simon Linden Stickman
TankMaster Finesmith

Transcript

[15:59] Draconis Neurocam: Hello Andrew

[15:59] Ardy Lay: Hi Andrew

[15:59] DogWomble Dollinger: hi andrew

[15:59] Jonathan Yap: Good evening Andrew

[15:59] Ashiri Sands: hi Andrew

[15:59] Andrew Linden: Hello everyone.

[15:59] Stickman: Hi Andrew!

[15:59] Hope Dreier: No Strawberrys growing in So Cal, yet. 3 months

[16:00] Stickman: Small crowd today.

[16:00] Jonathan Yap: that's right, they have had a cold spell this winter

[16:00] Hope Dreier: Yep, we had snow down to 750 feet last week

[16:00] DogWomble Dollinger: well i haven't even hit winter yet

[16:01] Andrew Linden: Looks like Simon won't be attending today. I think he's off to the snow this weekend.

[16:01] Andrew Linden: Where are you that you don't get winter DogWomble?

[16:01] Arawn Spitteler: Is there any better reason, to forgo strawberries?

[16:01] DogWomble Dollinger: andrew australia

[16:02] DogWomble Dollinger: we've just finished summer

[16:02] Ashiri Sands: or summers's finished us

[16:02] Stickman: DogWomble sounds sufficiently Australian.

[16:02] DogWomble Dollinger: it also means compared to you andrew i'm from the future

[16:02] Andrew Linden: hrm... my USB hub is losing power every once in a while

[16:02] DogWomble Dollinger: so do you need this weeks lotto numbers?

[16:02] Pauline Darkfury: Hi folks :)

[16:02] DogWomble Dollinger: hi pauline

[16:03] Draconis Neurocam: powersupply or motherboard issues you think

[16:03] Draconis Neurocam: ?

[16:03] Andrew Linden: What time in the night/dat is down-under right now?

[16:03] Andrew Linden: er... /day

[16:03] Cummere Mayo: might be you need an external powered one andrew... I had the same issue, turns out my powersupply just couldnt handle it

[16:03] Psi Merlin: Hi everyone

[16:03] DogWomble Dollinger: just gone 11am on saturday :)

[16:03] DogWomble Dollinger: hi psi

[16:03] Draconis Neurocam: hello psi

[16:03] Andrew Linden: it does have an external power supply, but I think it is going or gone

[16:04] Pauline Darkfury: yeah, Seagate supply a Y cable to use 2 ports at once for some of their external drives, as some ports just can't put out the full spec

[16:04] Andrew Linden: oh well, we'll see if I can still type by the end of the hour ;-)

[16:04] Andrew Linden: ok so news...

[16:04] DogWomble Dollinger: andrew, there's always voice

[16:04] Arawn Spitteler: Stick some Ice to the top of your box?

[16:04] Andrew Linden: My latest maint-server failed on RC channel LeTigre this week

[16:04] Andrew Linden: it was rolled back after only a few hours up

[16:04] Stickman: Aw.

[16:05] Andrew Linden: Kelly Linden found and fixed the bug (some typo in the listen() handler that I introduced when trying to clean up a potential memory leak)

[16:05] Andrew Linden: we'll try again next week

[16:05] Andrew Linden: next item: I'm very close to done with my chatlog to wiki formatting script

[16:06] Andrew Linden: so I should be able to actually publish these transcripts soon

[16:06] DogWomble Dollinger: excellent :)

[16:06] Andrew Linden: yes, there are existing scripts for this out there

[16:06] Andrew Linden: but they don't do what I want

[16:06] Andrew Linden: appearantly I just have to write my own

[16:06] Draconis Neurocam: true coder, had to do it yourself

[16:06] Andrew Linden: but it has been fun

[16:06] DogWomble Dollinger: well should we do some load testing on it by getting everyone to write a haiku?

[16:06] Andrew Linden: much more fun than fixing old complicated simulator bugs unfortunately

[16:07] Andrew Linden: The strawberry has arrived

[16:07] Jonathan Yap: humpf

[16:07] Motor Loon: mmm looks tasty

[16:07] Andrew Linden: Let

[16:07] Andrew Linden: Let's see... what other news.

[16:07] Andrew Linden: I discovered that DEV-44309 is still happening

[16:08] Andrew Linden: er... sorry that is an internal bug

[16:08] Andrew Linden: hrm... I don't know the public version

[16:08] Andrew Linden: I'll have to hunt it down

[16:09] Andrew Linden: but the symptom is that sometimes a region shutsdown and comes up on a slightly older version of the content (accidental rollback)

[16:09] Motor Loon: nasty one...

[16:09] Andrew Linden: however these days it is a bit worse bucause of another recently added behavior that will cause the old state to actually be missing most of the objects

[16:10] Pauline Darkfury: Ugh!

[16:10] Andrew Linden: happens... once or twice during a rolling update of the main channel, so it is rare

[16:10] Andrew Linden: and is what I'm trying to fix today

[16:10] Stickman: Fun.

[16:10] Andrew Linden: didn't quite finish it, but I have a new idea to try so there is hope

[16:11] Hope Dreier: That is a disaster actually, unless the proper version is still available?

[16:11] Andrew Linden: on my list of things to do after that is...

[16:11] Pauline Darkfury: I've seen a few cases of the region rolling back 30-60 mins on a shutdown, have heard of both loss and duplication of no-copy content from it

[16:11] Pauline Darkfury: Gut feeling is that heavily loaded regions are more prone to it

[16:11] Andrew Linden: a solution for abandoned land -- automatic code for moving it up for sale after a day or two

[16:12] Draconis Neurocam: oooh

[16:12] Liisa Runo: cool

[16:12] Pauline Darkfury: Sounds interesting, but please don't flood the market

[16:12] Andrew Linden: and SVC-6544 is on the short list

[16:12] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6544

[#SVC-6544] In "About Land" dialog, "Most Recent" objects show a date of 1970/01/01 00:00 UTC

[16:12] Andrew Linden: where "short" means I'm going to try to get it done in the next "sprint" which is two weeks long and starts next Monday

[16:12] Hope Dreier: Ahhh thet will make Kerry y=Young happy

[16:12] Pauline Darkfury: If possible, could the abandonment handler also revert the terrain and maybe even sprinkle a few trees around?

[16:13] Liisa Runo: trees

[16:13] Andrew Linden: Hehe, that's what you want... a scripted solution for fixing the terrain and planting trees

[16:13] Pauline Darkfury: Both are easy to script, tbh

[16:13] Stickman: SL could stand to have a little forced beautification, especially with abandoned parcels.

[16:13] Ardy Lay: SEt auto return too

[16:13] Jonathan Yap: So there is no issue of holding an abandoned parcel for 1 or 2 months ?

[16:14] Liisa Runo: yes, autoreturn is th most mportant thing

[16:14] Liisa Runo: important*

[16:14] Andrew Linden: hrm... the market will probably flood for a little while

[16:14] Pauline Darkfury: The other concern I'd have is please put some common sense on it, so that if a small (512 or less) parcel is abandoned and mostly surrounded by someone else's land, it's passed to the Concierge team to review and give the person 1st dibs on it

[16:14] Andrew Linden: I'll ask Guy what he wants to do about that.

[16:14] Andrew Linden: This will go up on an RC channel first.

[16:15] Andrew Linden: and will probably sit there for two or three weeks

[16:15] Stickman: What Pauline said.

[16:15] Pauline Darkfury: Right now, the abandonments are kinda handy if you own land in the same region and want to expand, Concierge will do direct sale to existing landowners in the region if it's small and seems the fair thing to do

[16:15] Arawn Spitteler: Is there Abandoned Land in Aditi?

[16:15] Andrew Linden: hrm...

[16:15] Andrew Linden: not much Arawn, I think

[16:15] Latif Khalifa: yeah, offering land to neighbours first would be nice

[16:16] Pauline Darkfury: The Concierge folks are also good at doing sensible stuff by re-joining land that's been carved up in a mad way

[16:16] Andrew Linden: I think the plan is for abandoned land to be for sale to the person who abandoned it... for some limited time

[16:16] Arawn Spitteler: Not much good to test, where we won't see the smoke

[16:16] Andrew Linden: it might be possible to cascade it to being for sale to the person with the largest adjacent parcel for another limited time

[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: hopefully parcels that are supposed to be owned by governor linden dont accidentally get sold

[16:16] Pauline Darkfury: The only downside in the current system is the tickets for stuff like that take rather a while to process

[16:17] Latif Khalifa: what do landbots strike at these days 0.5 $L / sqm?

[16:17] Andrew Linden: there is a further downside in that Guy Linden has to process all of those tickets.

[16:17] Jonathan Yap: I was just doing a search, the cheapest I could find was $L1/sqm

[16:17] Pauline Darkfury: Not sure, but they still seem to love parcels set for sale at L$1 by someone who has difficulty understanding the meaning of "anyone"

[16:17] Hope Dreier: That is a lot of tickets

[16:18] Latif Khalifa: Jonathan, landbots must buy at lower tha that they, prolly about 0.5

[16:18] Pauline Darkfury: L$1/sq.m. is about the approx bottom of the market most of the time right now

[16:18] Jonathan Yap: yes, that was confirming your observation Latif

[16:18] DogWomble Dollinger: pauline my parcel cst slightly less than that when i bought it :)

[16:18] Latif Khalifa remembers when landbots were buying at $L7 or 8

[16:18] DogWomble Dollinger: i think it was about $0.8/sqm

[16:18] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, I've managed to buy 0.7s and 0.8s

[16:18] Arawn Spitteler: Better distinguish what should be automatic, from what will require judgement. All Policy should be automaticised.

[16:19] Andrew Linden: I'll provide more updates on this project when I start working on it.

[16:19] Draconis Neurocam: cool, im sure everyone will be interested

[16:19] Andrew Linden: I think there will be opportunity to go over the details here and brainstorm how to change them.

[16:20] Andrew Linden: I'll be negotiating any changes with Guy Linden of course.

[16:20] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, overall the principle is sound, as long as it has a few things which will cause it to be reviewed if it's not a clear cut case

[16:20] Andrew Linden: I'll point him at these transcripts too (they should be published by then ;-)

[16:20] Pauline Darkfury nods "Guy seems pretty switched on for it, should know most of the issues"

[16:20] DogWomble Dollinger: if guy is seeing these transcripts ..... "waves hello at guy*

[16:21] Patnad Babii: why not put it right on sale after someone abandon, to any who.. could give everyone a chance to get it

[16:21] Andrew Linden: Also on my short list (but at the bottom atm) is SVC-2283

[16:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2283

[#SVC-2283] Sending postcards severely slows simulator performance

[16:21] Jonathan Yap: There are cases of abandoment by accident

[16:21] Draconis Neurocam: thats odd

[16:21] Andrew Linden: right Jonathan

[16:21] Arawn Spitteler: People sometimes abandon on a misclick, so there's a lot of minefield to policy about

[16:22] Pauline Darkfury: That would be very bad, Patnad, tbh. People manage to abandon by mistake, plus regions that are full, it's better for everyone if existing landowners in the region get a chance to express interest

[16:22] Andrew Linden: in fact Guy said he has seen cases where Gov Linden land was accidentally abandoned.

[16:22] Patnad Babii: maybe have a better confirmation system then

[16:22] Arawn Spitteler: Waiting a couple days, so the drunk can revert...

[16:22] DogWomble Dollinger: patnad no matter how good the confirmation system, there will be people that don't read/understand i

[16:23] Liisa Runo: [Abandon] -> "Are you sure?" -> "Are you really so very sure about this?"

[16:23] Andrew Linden: We'll be providing some sort of take-back grace period for those who accidentally abandon.

[16:23] Ardy Lay: I like that, Andrew.

[16:23] DogWomble Dollinger: unfortunately with some people you could hit them over the head with an anvil screaming "WTF are you about to do?" and they still don't get it :P

[16:23] Pauline Darkfury: Overall, mainland works better with fewer owners per region, as there's less conflict between people, so having some sort of priority (and cooling off period) before it goes to general sale is a very good thing

[16:23] Hope Dreier: arey you sure [yes] [no]; are you really sure [no] [yes]; are your really really sure [no] [no] [yes]

[16:24] Andrew Linden: sometimes you wish the UI were that annoying, I suppose

[16:24] Andrew Linden: ok that's all the news I've got I think

[16:24] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, an aquantence managed to lose his land to a landbot the other day by ignoreing the 2 huge and clear warnings and setting it for sale for L$1 while trying to change it back from group to personal ownership

[16:24] Ardy Lay: Imagine having to negotiate a capta to abandon land. ;-)

[16:24] Jonathan Yap: any update on svc-378?

[16:24] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-378

[#SVC-378] Role 'Everyone' in new groups should not have ability "Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends"

[16:24] Ardy Lay: captcha

[16:25] Cummere Mayo: your land is worth Xxxx $L are you sure you want to abandon it and lose your investment?

[16:25] Patnad Babii: i lik ethat cummere ehe

[16:25] Hope Dreier: Sometimes it NEEDs to be that annoying to make it reasonably user proof.

[16:25] Andrew Linden: No update on that. I think what is next is to find some Linden who deals with group issues to give me the OK to go forward on that one.

[16:26] Cummere Mayo: andrew bug gez on that

[16:26] Stickman: I'm all for punishing those who refuse to heed warnings or common sense. Give 'em a start, help them learn. But the weight it puts on support is undesired.

[16:26] Andrew Linden: I wonder who that would be... Gez you think?

[16:26] Jonathan Yap: Gez is in charge of XMPP

[16:26] Andrew Linden: (USB hub is dropping out on me again)

[16:26] TankMaster Finesmith: yeah, i dont hink guz is the right persion

[16:26] TankMaster Finesmith: gez*

[16:27] Hope Dreier: DON'T bug ez then.....

[16:27] Pauline Darkfury: yeah, agreed, Stickman, it's a _great_ way to teach them to read big obvious warning messages, but it still causes drama and support overhead

[16:27] Jonathan Yap: Maybe he will say "yes" and there's you answer

[16:27] Andrew Linden: yeah... but I don't think Gez is the right guy. This issue is too small to bother Gez over.

[16:28] Andrew Linden: If it was going to take a week to do maybe I'd include Gez, for question of whether to spend a week's resources on that rather than some other project.

[16:28] Andrew Linden: (namely some project of his that he wants done ;-)

[16:28] Hope Dreier: Please don't bug Gez until XMPP is all done and working.

[16:28] TankMaster Finesmith: it would be nice if founders could demte and or kick officers

[16:29] Latif Khalifa: take are taking their sweet time on that. red tape and all

[16:29] Andrew Linden: Well, I could ask someone #ops. If I ask the question with enough impatience they'll say "yes" just to make me go away.

[16:29] Pauline Darkfury: owners can demote and kick them

[16:29] Pauline Darkfury: lol

[16:30] Pauline Darkfury: Could you impatiently ask them if it would be a good idea to increase max prims to 30k, please ;)

[16:30] Cummere Mayo: that works andrew

[16:30] DogWomble Dollinger: so andrew, what other hings are up for attention in teh bugathon?

[16:31] Andrew Linden: hang on...

[16:31] Andrew Linden: got a phone call, an imporant one...

[16:31] Arawn Spitteler looks for the WD-40, for the hinges

[16:31] Bronson Blackadder: his USB is slated to get fixed

[16:32] Jonathan Yap: (It is Gez, with an answer)

[16:32] Bronson Blackadder: soon

[16:32] DogWomble Dollinger: soon as in the next 4 months?

[16:32] Stickman: "Andrew, we were looking at your live usergroup logs. We're going to have to ask you to stop answering questions."

[16:32] Draconis Neurocam: i never understood why it was 15000 prims on a sim, 16384 seems like a much better number, mathmatically

[16:32] Arawn Spitteler: Does he need to update his power supply, to one that supports nosmoke.exe?

[16:32] TankMaster Finesmith: lol

[16:32] Pauline Darkfury: It's arbitrary, tbh

[16:32] DogWomble Dollinger: haha arawn

[16:33] Arawn Spitteler: The extra prims go to vehicles and temp-rez, etc

[16:33] Pauline Darkfury: 16384 would work better with the 16 sq.m. land granularity, etc

[16:33] Pauline Darkfury: Pretty sure vehicles and temp can take it well past 16k

[16:33] Pauline Darkfury: (and AV prims)

[16:34] Jonathan Yap: plus all the prims 70 avatars can have

[16:34] Andrew Linden: ok back, sorry about that

[16:34] Arawn Spitteler: Attachments aren't on the server, save for scripting

[16:34] Latif Khalifa: What's "rental" land type?

[16:34] Hope Dreier: av prims donlt count

[16:34] Draconis Neurocam: i saw that change too latif

[16:34] Andrew Linden: I've listed what I've got on my short list already

[16:34] DogWomble Dollinger: wb andrew

[16:35] Andrew Linden: at least the public bugs

[16:35] Hope Dreier: and presnetly you canlt get very many temp prims due to SVC-5927

[16:35] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927

[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued

[16:35] Pauline Darkfury: where is that change (rental land)?

[16:35] Latif Khalifa: in the viewer code

[16:35] Draconis Neurocam: http://hg.secondlife.com/viewer-development/changeset/6fdd6dfddec4

[16:35] Andrew Linden: rental land is just a new category

[16:35] Jonathan Yap: there is a mailing list for viewer changes

[16:35] Jonathan Yap: (commits)

[16:35] Andrew Linden: there wasn't much server-side changes to add that

[16:36] Andrew Linden: however I don't know what the plans are for it

[16:36] Pauline Darkfury: Oh, cool, that could be a nice add for search, I guess

[16:36] Latif Khalifa: Looks like just parcel classification for search

[16:36] Andrew Linden: right, it is a new search category

[16:37] Draconis Neurocam: any insight as to why 15000 was chosen over 16384 andrew?

[16:37] Andrew Linden: lol

[16:37] Andrew Linden: good question

[16:38] Latif Khalifa: has anyone else noticed much increased incidence of ghosted prims recently. symptoms, you right click and delete prim and nothing happens. you right click it again and it vanishes. but it stays in the physics engine and you can bump into it, and it also counts against parcel limits

[16:38] Andrew Linden: the orginal limit (guess) was 10k

[16:38] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, and what does the server do with the 1/2 prims from rounding errors? ;)

[16:38] Andrew Linden: someone decided to upgrade so they went to 15k

[16:38] Andrew Linden: we once had a region that allowed 20k as an experiment

[16:38] Andrew Linden: it's a per-region setting

[16:38] Hope Dreier: were ther problems?

[16:39] Andrew Linden: someone asked me some group could bump their private region to 20k

[16:39] TankMaster Finesmith: should reviset that 20k test :P

[16:39] Andrew Linden: I said, "Yes, but if anything goes wrong we don't promise to fix it"

[16:39] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, some private owners would probably pay a premium for 20k prims (or just a bit more script memory)

[16:39] Andrew Linden: I think it worked ok. They went up to about 18 or 19k

[16:39] Andrew Linden: that was years ago...

[16:40] Stickman: How does one participate in such an "experiment" and make such a request?

[16:40] Andrew Linden: back when Myst Online collapsed the second time

[16:40] Andrew Linden: the group who asked were Myst Online refugees.

[16:40] Draconis Neurocam: the math for parcels would need less rounding i would imagine, make the server operate faster >.>

[16:40] DogWomble Dollinger: aaah ok :)

[16:41] DogWomble Dollinger: so we can't just go "please pretty please with a cherry on top" then andrew?

[16:41] Andrew Linden: hehe, yeah that is what we need.... less rounding

[16:41] Bronson Blackadder: Pyst

[16:41] Andrew Linden: that'll speed things up

[16:41] Stickman: Less rounding would surely save worthwhile cycles.

[16:41] Pauline Darkfury wonders if there's a secret Linden region somewhere funded by all the 1/2 prims ;)

[16:41] Stickman: Just remove limits altogether. All that verification and authentication is too expensive.

[16:42] Hope Dreier: pffffff

[16:42] Cummere Mayo: pauline its more then one

[16:42] DogWomble Dollinger: pauline i think there is, it's funded by all the waste offcuts from the path cuts ressies do

[16:42] Pauline Darkfury: hehe

[16:42] Cummere Mayo: its very odd place too

[16:42] Cummere Mayo: a whole secret continent

[16:42] Cummere Mayo: oz showed me

[16:42] Jonathan Yap: That would be cool if when you sliced a prim when building a few chips fell down

[16:42] Cummere Mayo: lol

[16:42] Andrew Linden: did you know? the L$ is actually a float, but I routed all the rounded values into my private coffer!

[16:42] DogWomble Dollinger: hmmmm, speaking of secret regions, i wonder

[16:43] Pauline Darkfury: lol

[16:43] DogWomble Dollinger: could we take a visit to the cornfield?

[16:43] DogWomble Dollinger: :P

[16:43] Draconis Neurocam: the .010 path cut on boxes cylinders and prism bug is hilarious

[16:43] Opensource Obscure: :D

[16:43] Hope Dreier: Does someone empty the bit-bucket occasionally?

[16:43] Andrew Linden: Sure, we could go to the cornfield, but we have to go before the end of this meeting.

[16:43] Andrew Linden: How about 5 min before the end?

[16:43] DogWomble Dollinger: haha o

[16:43] Opensource Obscure: cool

[16:43] DogWomble Dollinger: that sounds good if everyone is in agreeance

[16:44] Pauline Darkfury: cool

[16:44] Ashiri Sands: postcards from the cornfield

[16:44] Andrew Linden: er... maybe I should first verify that the cornfield is even up and running...

[16:44] Jonathan Yap: do we need a Linden invite?

[16:44] TankMaster Finesmith: lol

[16:44] Arawn Spitteler: Forced TP wouild work

[16:44] Jonathan Yap: Good idea -- yearly field trip

[16:44] Andrew Linden: hrm... I don't see it

[16:44] Draconis Neurocam: sure, gonna make a pick there, like my one from LindenWorld Lobby

[16:45] Pauline Darkfury: The Corn Field (128,128,2) looks like it's online on the map

[16:45] Draconis Neurocam: maps arnt hidden on the map pauline, its a matter of being able to go

[16:45] Draconis Neurocam: sims*

[16:45] Draconis Neurocam: blah

[16:45] Bronson Blackadder: cornfield trip cool :)

[16:45] DogWomble Dollinger: we know what you mean

[16:45] Pauline Darkfury: yeah, but offline ones usually show as offline there

[16:45] Andrew Linden: Oh yeah, there it is.

[16:46] TankMaster Finesmith: regions*

[16:46] Andrew Linden: I was typing in "Cornfield"

[16:46] Cummere Mayo: hehe *has a few dirty memories of the corn field*

[16:46] DogWomble Dollinger: so will you put us to work digging terraformed trenches andrew?

[16:46] Draconis Neurocam: watching 1950s movies on being good

[16:46] Pauline Darkfury: So, before things wind up, any progress on investigating the elevated "Physics Other" time on regions which have lots of prims rezzed?

[16:47] Hope Dreier: Should we put on our tin hats?

[16:47] Andrew Linden: No, too much work for me DogWomble

[16:47] DogWomble Dollinger: haha andrew

[16:47] Cummere Mayo: lol

[16:47] Andrew Linden: Just don't take any postcards... there is some bug about those killing sim performance

[16:47] Andrew Linden: if you take too many too fast

[16:48] Pauline Darkfury: lol

[16:48] Andrew Linden: Pauline, I haven't gotten to that "Physics Other" investigation yet.

[16:48] Andrew Linden: But thanks for reminding me... I'll make a note

[16:48] DogWomble Dollinger: speaking of similr things

[16:48] Pauline Darkfury: thanks :)

[16:49] Andrew Linden: it isn't officially on my sprint list, but I'll probably work on that with Falcon

[16:49] Arawn Spitteler: Wouldn't post cards be viewer side? It shouldn't be unusual to import a texture

[16:49] DogWomble Dollinger: i've seen "Pump IO" listed in the stats window, with some sims showing that as quite high

[16:49] Andrew Linden: he's been hanging out at GDC this week

[16:49] Andrew Linden: but should be back next

[16:49] Stickman: Question about inventory, Andrew. Is it possible to obtain additional information about inventory objects in the current system? Such as duraction or stereo on a sound, ease, priority, etc, on an animation, and to have them available via script?

[16:49] DogWomble Dollinger: i've been trying to find out what Pump IO is, but have yet to get a clear answer

[16:49] Draconis Neurocam: it emails the texture arawn

[16:49] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, Pump IO is high-ish here

[16:49] Draconis Neurocam: dogwomble i believe it relates to the slvoice.exe process

[16:49] DogWomble Dollinger: andrew, you wouldn't happen to know what it is?

[16:49] DogWomble Dollinger: aaah k

[16:50] Andrew Linden: Arawn, sending the postcard requires an upload to the viewer, and the simulator sends an "IM" that gets routed to email.

[16:50] Clinton Oddfellow: Yikes, sorry Hope.

[16:50] Andrew Linden: it might be related to Pump IO

[16:50] Hope Dreier: That's alright

[16:51] Andrew Linden: I think Pump IO works on lots of stuff including transmitting you and your attachments on region crossing

[16:51] DogWomble Dollinger: aah ok

[16:51] Pauline Darkfury: In the cases where I've noticed Physics Other being a bit high, I don't recall Pump IO matching it, but can't say wiht absolute certainty that it didn't

[16:51] Cummere Mayo: oh um so I shouldnt send postcards of my alts yiffing to Linden emails anymore andrew?

[16:51] Ashiri Sands: @_@

[16:51] Andrew Linden: Hrm... stickman let me think about that inventory question...

[16:52] Stickman: Had a friend making a proposal. Was wondering if their proposal was even possible with the way things are set up.

[16:52] Andrew Linden: the avatar inventory is basically stuff in a db table

[16:52] Andrew Linden: it is very hard to change the schema of the inventory db tables these days

[16:53] Latif Khalifa: knowing stuff like if sound is stereo would require asset download

[16:53] Andrew Linden: so we wouldn't be adding any more columns to those tables

[16:53] Cummere Mayo: so andrew why is the that table screwing up so much lately?

[16:53] Andrew Linden: it isn't the table screwing up actually

[16:53] Draconis Neurocam: if only it used postgresql over mysql

[16:53] Stickman: And that information about animations and sounds and etc isn't stored?

[16:53] Andrew Linden: it is the "AIS" system trying to get up and running

[16:53] Andrew Linden: the new viewer will use the new AIS system if it is available

[16:53] Cummere Mayo: so thats whats killing and corrupting inventories?

[16:53] Andrew Linden: otherwise it uses the old (UDP) transport system

[16:54] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!

[16:54] Andrew Linden: if you have lots and lots of inventory the UDP system is not reliable enough

[16:54] TankMaster Finesmith: how is AIS coming along?

[16:54] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!

[16:54] Andrew Linden: I'm not sure on the status of AIS, I need a fresh update on that from someone who knows

[16:54] TankMaster Finesmith: ok

[16:54] Andrew Linden: I'll try to remember to ask and have an answer next week.

[16:55] Andrew Linden: Also, I found my list of things I was supposed to follow up on from Tuesday.

[16:55] Pauline Darkfury: One thought I had on inventory, not sure if this is close to what AIS gives us, is that the cached *.inv.gz file is actually pretty small. I wonder if that initial download/sync could be vastly faster by just constructing that server side and downloading it?

[16:55] TankMaster Finesmith: sounds good

[16:55] Andrew Linden: I'll try to go through that list too.

[16:55] Cummere Mayo: since sept ive lost or had corrupted beyond salvage almsot 18k worth of inventory items nd i know allot that have had worse

[16:55] Bronson Blackadder: cornfield time

[16:55] Cummere Mayo: is there any sort of backup system?

[16:56] Andrew Linden: Yeah Pauline. Ideally the inv could be bundled up into larger chunked files for download. Maybe the AIS system is going to do that.

[16:56] Andrew Linden: Not sure how it works.

[16:56] Andrew Linden: Perhaps I could invite someone who knows to this group to answer questions.

[16:56] Latif Khalifa: it uses structured data over http

[16:56] Andrew Linden: I wonder if that team has a user group they are using.

[16:56] Andrew Linden: Anyone know?

[16:56] Stickman: I was wondering that myself.

[16:56] Gooden Uggla: andrew could you tell us at what point (number of inventory objects) the database becomes unreliable?

[16:56] Draconis Neurocam: for inventory, no i try to go to all of them

[16:57] Andrew Linden: No Gooden, I don't know where it starts to fail.

[16:57] Stickman: Anywhere over 1 object, your inventory may return unreliable results.

[16:57] Pauline Darkfury: The general lore says 50k or more items starts to become problematic

[16:57] Andrew Linden: if you have a bad net connection (dropped packets) then your inventory will also suffer over the old UDP system

[16:57] Gooden Uggla: that number might be helpful for distributed inventories across alts

[16:58] Stickman: Would be nice if support could compile a list of those with problems reported and their inventory count, and compare it against the actual inventory counts. See if the number is really the cause.

[16:58] Andrew Linden: Ok time for The Corn Field.

[16:58] Andrew Linden: I'll TP there

[16:58] DogWomble Dollinger: cornfield

[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: Yes, if my DSL goes dodgy and starts doing the 10% packet loss it does on occasions, inv download misses stuff

[16:58] Mobius Ryba: im for tp's? :p

[16:58] Andrew Linden: and then I'll give TP invites to about 20 people

[16:58] Andrew Linden: just IM me in a min...

[16:59] Gooden Uggla: just remember kids, forced TP is a little unsettling

[16:59] Arawn Spitteler: We should have objective conferencing

[17:00] Draconis Neurocam: my first god teleport!

[17:00] Bronson Blackadder: that was Rad

[17:00] Jonathan Yap: sim FPS is taking a hit

[17:00] Mobius Ryba: ooh!

[17:00] Bronson Blackadder: lol

[17:01] Bronson Blackadder: lol

[17:01] Bronson Blackadder: as I start snapping pics

[17:01] Cummere Mayo: woot

[17:01] Jonathan Yap: shoot, no image when making a pick

[17:02] Latif Khalifa: hehe

[17:02] Jonathan Yap: hey, I fit in pretty good as a strawberry

[17:02] Cummere Mayo: lol it lists it as denby in the title lol

[17:02] Hope Dreier: Thank you aNDREW

[17:02] Jonathan Yap: Are we stuck here lol

[17:02] Bronson Blackadder: dont wander off too far you might get lost

[17:03] DogWomble Dollinger: thanks andrew :)

[17:03] Latif Khalifa: lol

[17:03] Cummere Mayo: i have great memories of this place

[17:03] Ardy Lay: Thanks Andrew

[17:03] Stickman: Haha, thanks!

[17:03] Ashiri Sands: =^_^=

[17:03] Clinton Oddfellow: Thank you, Andrew :)

[17:03] TankMaster Finesmith: thx andrew

[17:03] Draconis Neurocam: yes indeed thanks

[17:03] Ashiri Sands: thanks

[17:03] DogWomble Dollinger: so this be the cornfiel

[17:03] Mobius Ryba: a dream fulfilled :)

[17:03] DogWomble Dollinger: where all the naughty people go

[17:04] Ashiri Sands laughs.

[17:04] Ashiri Sands: This was open one Halloween

[17:04] Andrew Linden: Whew! I think that is everyone.

[17:04] Andrew Linden: My USB mouse was failing in the middle of that, of course.

[17:04] Draconis Neurocam shouts: come see the movie

[17:04] DogWomble Dollinger: i see people enjoying the tractors already

[17:04] Bronson Blackadder: no scripts no flight no building no nuthin

[17:04] Bronson Blackadder: lol

[17:04] Bronson Blackadder: lol

[17:04] Cummere Mayo: so who is up for slexing?

[17:05] DogWomble Dollinger: hahaha cummere

[17:05] Hope Dreier: lols

[17:05] DogWomble Dollinger: is this sim sufficiently rated for that? :P

[17:05] Cummere Mayo: its m rated ^^

[17:05] Andrew Linden: There used to be a TV somewhere here

[17:05] Cummere Mayo: still is

[17:05] Andrew Linden: that showed old black and white videos

[17:05] Hope Dreier: .unleash

[17:05] Hope Dreier Takes her axe from her belt

[17:05] Hope Dreier has an axe in her hand

[17:05] Andrew Linden: on how to behave

[17:05] Opensource Obscure: there

[17:05] Cummere Mayo: ne and nw

[17:05] Hope Dreier Replaces her axe on her belt

[17:05] Hope Dreier has put her Axe away

[17:05] Opensource Obscure: the tv

[17:05] Andrew Linden: there may be a tractor too

[17:05] Clinton Oddfellow: SL History!

[17:06] Andrew Linden: We would banish griefers here

[17:06] Ardy Lay: Blue gave me some of this corn.

[17:06] DogWomble Dollinger: aaah nice

[17:06] DogWomble Dollinger: hmmmm, i wonder

[17:06] Andrew Linden: I wonder if the region is full

[17:06] Clinton Oddfellow: ah, there are the TVs

[17:06] Ashiri Sands: What happens to them now?

[17:06] DogWomble Dollinger: should we pull out a very early beta of the SL client so that we can enjoy the full cornfield experience?

[17:06] Clinton Oddfellow: I'm going to meander over and peer at them

[17:06] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks for showing us :)

[17:07] Cummere Mayo shouts: so can we trust the media here to not be redzoned?

[17:07] DogWomble Dollinger shouts: haha cummere

[17:07] Pauline Darkfury shouts: lol

[17:07] DogWomble Dollinger: incidentally andrew, do you have a copy of this corn available?

[17:07] Ash Qin: \ WhatWhee :3

[17:07] Andrew Linden: Mobius, did you find that tractor?

[17:07] DogWomble Dollinger: might make a good substitute for the postcards

[17:07] Andrew Linden: Or did you rez it?

[17:08] Andrew Linden: The limit here is 40 avatars

[17:08] Mobius Ryba: grins - ffound it :p

[17:08] Andrew Linden: I don't think we've hit it yet

[17:08] Jonathan Yap: look at the age of that thing

[17:08] Andrew Linden: but I'm going to have to go.

[17:08] Mobius Ryba: i'm gonna tp out so others can come in :)

[17:08] DogWomble Dollinger: ok andrew, take care

[17:08] Andrew Linden: thanks for coming everyone

[17:08] Andrew Linden: have a nice weekend

[17:08] Opensource Obscure: you too Andrew

[17:08] DogWomble Dollinger: yu too andrew

[17:08] Kadah Coba: Thanks Andrew

[17:08] Ashiri Sands: bye Andrew and thanks

[17:08] Opensource Obscure: and thanks

[17:08] Latif Khalifa: Thanks and have a nice weekend too Andrew :)

[17:09] Jonathan Yap: take cafe Andrew

[17:09] Jonathan Yap: *care

[17:09] Kadah Coba makes some useless LMs x3

[17:09] Linden Tractor v1.0: Enjoy the ride!

[17:09] DogWomble Dollinger: take care and go to a cafe andrew

[17:09] Ash Qin: Have fun, Andrew

[17:09] Pauline Darkfury: Have a good one, Andrew, thanks :)

[17:09] DogWomble Dollinger: andrew, thank god this is no push :P

[17:09] Mobius Ryba: what happens if i set home here? :p

[17:09] Andrew Linden: This would be a boring place to hang out all by yourself.

[17:10] Jonathan Yap: hmmm

[17:10] Pauline Darkfury: yup, but more fun than just not being able to login ;)

[17:10] Andrew Linden: With nothing but a TV, a tractor, and maybe one other griefer to keep you company.

[17:10] DogWomble Dollinger: .so andrew, you don't happen to have a copy of this corn by any chance? :P

[17:10] Andrew Linden: Dunno Mobius. I would expect the system to reject that home location

[17:10] Opensource Obscure: it does.

[17:10] DogWomble Dollinger: so normally this place is only avaialble by linden invite?

[17:10] Mobius Ryba: ah no home position here :p

[17:10] Jonathan Yap: Once a year there should be a Linden flea market

[17:11] Hope Dreier: It's really boreing if you turn off Alpha


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