Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.06.28

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Arawn Spitteler Arcane Laval
Bronson Blackadder Data Landau Fancy Greeter
Flip Idlemind Jonathan Yap Kadah Coba
Kallista Destiny Kelly Linden Leonel Iceghost
Liisa Runo Qie Niangao Rex Cronon
Simon Linden TankMaster Teichmann Techwolf Lupindo
Vincent Nacon Zi Ree


[11:59] TankMaster Teichmann: and stuff

[12:00] Kallista Destiny: Hi Andrew

[12:00] Andrew Linden: Hello everyone.

[12:00] Kadah Coba: Hello

[12:00] TankMaster Teichmann: afternoon

[12:00] Data Landau: \o/yah

[12:00] Arcane Laval: Heya

[12:00] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group

[12:00] Simon Linden: hello everyone

[12:00] TankMaster Teichmann: wb

[12:00] Data Landau: \o/yah

[12:00] TankMaster Teichmann: meeroos are doing well i see :)

[12:01] Kadah Coba innocently gets out a loaf of sandwich bread

[12:01] Simon Linden: yep, they're growing ... I think they're about due to start making more

[12:01] TankMaster Teichmann: lol

[12:01] Andrew Linden: I think Mono2-Performance was promoted to the main channel this morning, during the rolling update.

[12:01] Kadah Coba: We noticed

[12:01] Andrew Linden: Which was Kelly Linden's project.

[12:02] Kallista Destiny: Yeah Kelly

[12:02] Kadah Coba was playing with scripts before the meeting

[12:02] TankMaster Teichmann: all 3,200 of them...

[12:02] Andrew Linden: It's been in the RC queue, or in RC for so long I've forgotten how much of an impact it is going to have.

[12:02] Fancy Greeter: Simon Linden has arrived!

[12:03] TankMaster Teichmann: noticable from our experence, in a good way

[12:03] Kadah Coba: If your not wathcing the stats window, the impact of rezing a lot of scripts is pretty much unnoticeable

[12:03] Andrew Linden: Whats' the main benefit? Faster rez (or was it derez) of MONO scripted objects, right?

[12:03] Kallista Destiny: That means that it will be in all the RC as well tommorrow, right?

[12:03] Liisa Runo: rez

[12:04] TankMaster Teichmann: less impact on the region

[12:04] Liisa Runo: derez still need tuning

[12:04] Andrew Linden: Ok good. Thanks for the info. It's hard to keep track.

[12:04] Liisa Runo: and not faster rez, slower rez actually, but dont ruin the sim performance that bad anymore

[12:04] Andrew Linden: Yes, the other RC channels will be updated tomorrow morning.

[12:04] Fancy Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived!

[12:04] Kadah Coba: So its not on this region now?

[12:04] TankMaster Teichmann: speeking of whom...

[12:04] Kallista Destiny: Speak of the Devil

[12:05] Kelly Linden: It is this region now.

[12:05] Andrew Linden: Hey Kelly, we were just talking about how Mono2-Performance was promoted this morning.

[12:05] Simon Linden: This is on LeTigre

[12:05] Kallista Destiny: This region is Le Tiger

[12:05] Kadah Coba: Cause I was testing here while killing time and script rezing was impressive

[12:05] TankMaster Teichmann: You are at 262,102.3, 258,603.0, 33.2 in Denby located at (

Second Life RC LeTigre

[12:06] Kelly Linden: Mono2-performance is on Release and LeTigre

[12:06] TankMaster Teichmann: ah ok

[12:06] Kadah Coba: Sweet, good work :>

[12:06] Kelly Linden: (it has been on LeTigre for the last several weeks)

[12:06] Rex Cronon whispers: greetings all

[12:07] Kallista Destiny: Now this is starting only ome number of scripts per frame per user, correct, 3 or 5 ? or some number?

[12:07] Kelly Linden: We are investigating some issues with performance on homesteads unfortunately. I don't have any more info than that right now though.

[12:07] Kelly Linden: we ditched the number limit and moved to a time limit

[12:07] Kallista Destiny: ahh?

[12:07] Kallista Destiny: more complex then?

[12:07] Kelly Linden: At most 50% of the available script time (which varies based on other factors) will be spend deserializing

[12:08] Kallista Destiny: OK...

[12:08] Qie Niangao: hmmm... now to decide whether to recompile LSL vehicle and attachment scripts to Mono.

[12:08] Kadah Coba: It seems to work well so far

[12:08] Kelly Linden: A minimum of 1 script per frame (if there are any to deserialize) up to as much as we can fit in that time.

[12:09] Kallista Destiny: so Kadah could take up to 3000 frames to seralize...

[12:09] TankMaster Teichmann: lol

[12:09] Andrew Linden: Excellent. I'm glad to hear that. Just one per frame seemed like it would be too slow for some objects.

[12:10] Kadah Coba: If you have more than one script, you didn't want it rezing quickly to start with

[12:10] Kallista Destiny: 1 minute for Kadah's worse case.

[12:10] Kelly Linden: Not all scripts are the same, so a limit of 3 or 5 was both too few and too many. The time boxing works much better both for speed and not starving existing scripts

[12:10] Andrew Linden: What I've been doing lately is wrapping up some loose ends on encroachment return across region boundaries: just fixed it for Estate Managers on the encroached region.

[12:11] Andrew Linden: I'm going to try to get some main-server stuff done this week.

[12:11] Andrew Linden: First item on my list is the llDialog() throttle -- still haven't done that yet.

[12:12] Kadah Coba: Excellent

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Kelly, I think last Friday we were talking about some new LSL low hanging fruit.

[12:13] Kadah Coba: Scripted fruit?

[12:13] Jonathan Yap hopes svc-7036 gets some love at some point in a maint cycle

[12:13] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7036] The packet sent by a script generated inventory offer is missing ObjectID

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Do you think we could complete a project for easy LSL enhancements? Or would that be too hard to fit into the schedule these days?

[12:13] Kadah Coba: I know where there is some linden scripted fruit.

[12:14] Kelly Linden: Andrew: ping me after this meeting. I have a repo set up.

[12:14] Kallista Destiny chuckles

[12:14] Andrew Linden: Ok cool.

[12:14] Rex Cronon: what would be considered an "easy" lsl enhancement:)

[12:14] Andrew Linden: Maybe I'll do the llDialog() throttle there if the repo will ship soon.

[12:15] Andrew Linden: Otherwise I'd try to do it in a main-server time-frame.

[12:15] Kelly Linden: I dunno which would be quicker at this point.

[12:15] Andrew Linden: I don't have a complete list of what would be easy Rex.

[12:16] Liisa Runo tries to fight the urge to paste giant pile of JIRA links to LSL feature requests

[12:16] Rex Cronon: a short list liisa:)

[12:16] Andrew Linden: But it has been a long time since I've tried to do any of the simple L

[12:17] Andrew Linden: LSL changes that were documented in one of the old jira issues

[12:17] Andrew Linden: I've forgotten the number

[12:18] Kadah Coba: Something low I think

[12:18] Flip Idlemind: Something like SVC-6181 ?

[12:18] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-6181] Meta-Issue: List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns

[12:19] Andrew Linden: Yeah I think that is the one.

[12:19] Andrew Linden: Huh... I was just hunting for it, but that isn't anything close the number my memory was saying it was.

[12:19] Liisa Runo: i also found this: SVC-301

[12:19] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-301] Meta-issue: New LSL Functions

[12:20] Rex Cronon: maybe they should be merged?

[12:20] Liisa Runo: the other is one is not "linden confirmed easy"

[12:20] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[12:21] Liisa Runo: i see some stuff in the list that are prolly not easy

[12:21] Andrew Linden: Right. It's been a while since I've looked at 6181

[12:21] Kallista Destiny: might be more like Linden confirmed NP complete

[12:22] Andrew Linden: I think it would be useful to try to make a pass and deliver some of the easy stuff there.

[12:23] Andrew Linden: Ok that's all the news I had. Table is open.

[12:23] Rex Cronon: u could give to each suggestion a score from 1 to 10 that would should how easy it would be to implement

[12:23] Rex Cronon: that would show how easy*

[12:24] Qie Niangao: I thought there was already a SCR project backlog... so presumably there'd be some overlap, at least in intent.

[12:24] Kadah Coba: Does the RevokePermissions( message still work? It doesn't seem to now.

[12:24] Flip Idlemind: SVC-5192 (from the "confirmed easy" list is arguably resolved)

[12:24] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-5192] llAgentSay

[12:24] Kallista Destiny: with perhaps an abc for sure, not sure, iffy as to the quality of the guess as to easy

[12:24] Andrew Linden: That would be great... if I had time. I'd rather just read the list and pick out some that we could actually do.

[12:25] Liisa Runo: and no need to only look at the easy stuff, maybe something is lil tricky, but would improve SL a lot and would be worth the trouble of adding it

[12:25] Jonathan Yap votes again for svc-7036

[12:25] Andrew Linden: If I was going to be able to work on it 100% for two weeks then yeah I'd try to give it a more thorough treatment.

[12:26] Jonathan Yap: I want to finish the muting improvements that have been in progress for the past few months

[12:26] Kallista Destiny: well 5192 looks to be asking fror more than just in this reagon

[12:26] Kallista Destiny: llRegionSat()

[12:27] Flip Idlemind: "but would allow you to specify an agent key to privately chat with within the same simulator"

[12:27] Jonathan Yap: llRegionSit() -- make everyone sit down at once? :P

[12:27] Zi Ree: lol

[12:27] Kallista Destiny: good for Summer camps

[12:27] Kadah Coba: What is this, 3rd grade?

[12:27] Qie Niangao: llRegionMilkAndCookies()

[12:28] Simon Linden: llStopTalkingAndPayAttention() ?

[12:28] Kallista Destiny: llRegionNap() for timeouts?

[12:28] Kadah Coba: So any idea if RevokePermissions still works?

[12:29] Kadah Coba: (The reliable message sent from the server to revoke anim perms of an object that has them)

[12:29] Kadah Coba: from the viewer*

[12:30] Simon Linden: I haven't heard anything about that, Kadah, working or not

[12:30] Andrew Linden: The handler function for RevokePermissions is still in the codebase, and is registered.

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:32] Kadah Coba: It used to work but I've been unable to see known working uses of it work since last night when I was attempting to port it. I hadn't been paying much attention to it at all in a long time so I have no idea when it stopped working.

[12:32] Zi Ree: Kadah, we should test it with Phoenix. We know it worked there.

[12:32] Kadah Coba: I did, it didn't work there.

[12:32] Zi Ree: Ah, okay.

[12:32] Andrew Linden: Hrm.

[12:32] Kadah Coba: I know that it used to, but it doesn't now.

[12:33] Kallista Destiny: sounds like a JIRA to me

[12:33] Rex Cronon: why can't i find RevokePermissions here:

[12:33] Kadah Coba: Hopped on a pose ball, hopped off, verified the msg was sent, hopped back on, did not receive another permission dialog and was animated

[12:33] Rex Cronon: oh. is not a lsl function?

[12:33] Zi Ree: It's sent by the viewer.

[12:34] Andrew Linden: Interesting... the current official viewer code does not appear to ever send RevokePermissions anymore

[12:34] Jonathan Yap: Kadah, I was having that problem about 2 weeks ago

[12:34] Kadah Coba:

[12:34] Kadah Coba: I don't think the Linden viewers ever used it

[12:34] Kadah Coba: At least to my knowledge in my history.

[12:34] Rex Cronon: i have to say that RevokePermissions(key objKey) would be an excelent new lsl addition:)

[12:34] Andrew Linden: They must have used it at some point in order for us to have put it into the server.

[12:35] Kallista Destiny: That would account from many historical strangeness

[12:35] Kadah Coba: I could go look, but it would take hours.

[12:36] Kadah Coba: Likely longer, I'm not even sure how to text search SVN history

[12:37] Andrew Linden: Well, you'd have to enter a jira issue if you ever hope to get RevokePermissions working again.

[12:37] Kadah Coba: I only descovered this late last night and only got a confirmation from others this morning

[12:38] Jonathan Yap: Was it a menu entry at some point?

[12:38] Andrew Linden: It is an interesting lost feature though... I wonder how perms are revoked now in the official viewer.

[12:38] Liisa Runo: they are not revoked, once you give perms, your ruined for life

[12:39] Kallista Destiny: Leaving Region?

[12:39] Kallista Destiny: Relogging?

[12:39] Data Landau: relogging

[12:39] Liisa Runo: nope, that dont help, nothing help

[12:39] Kallista Destiny: lol

[12:39] Zi Ree: The object itself retains the permission.

[12:39] Kadah Coba: ANd if the object is taken in to inventory before you manually revoke it with that message, it retains it for life

[12:39] Zi Ree: Rather, the script.

[12:39] Kadah Coba: ^

[12:40] Rex Cronon: and i think each copy u rez also has the permissions

[12:40] Kallista Destiny: Great Googly moogly That is actually not good

[12:40] Zi Ree: Copies reset the scripts.

[12:40] Kadah Coba: So someone can take your anim perms and animate you when ever youre in the same region

[12:40] Data Landau: thats true rax

[12:40] Zi Ree: So that should revoke permissions.

[12:40] Data Landau: lo srr rex

[12:40] Rex Cronon: hey data

[12:40] Qie Niangao: however. If you stand from an object that got permission to animate, that script loses permission server-side, right?

[12:40] Zi Ree: No.

[12:40] Data Landau: no

[12:40] Andrew Linden: Huh... the code that RevokePermissions handler calls is now only called on object ownership change.

[12:41] Kadah Coba: Those perms should be revoke on rez

[12:41] Kallista Destiny: Yeah

[12:41] Liisa Runo: not that simple, some stuff need to keep perms after re-rez

[12:41] Zi Ree: Yeah, ownership change was added to counter debit permission fraud, I believe.

[12:41] Rex Cronon: lots of people like to play "pranks" on others for as long as they like

[12:41] Kadah Coba: There is no case for them to keep perms on others through rezs

[12:41] Kallista Destiny: although RFL kiosks alwasy qsk for the DEBIT permission when rezzed

[12:41] Andrew Linden: But if what Kadah says is true, then the perms are not properly revoked even during ownership change.

[12:42] Zi Ree: They are probably reset on rez.

[12:42] Kallista Destiny: most likley

[12:42] Rex Cronon: unless owner resets the script u r in deep s...

[12:43] Kadah Coba: This si 2 different issues, revoke on rez would be a request, and there is a popular jira for it. RevokePermissions not working would be a bug.

[12:43] Kallista Destiny: welcom back Jonathan

[12:43] TankMaster Teichmann: hiya tech

[12:43] Techwolf Lupindo smiels

[12:43] Kallista Destiny: Hi tech.

[12:44] Andrew Linden: Well Kadah, make a jira issue for RevokePermissions and send me an email about it. Otherwise I'm sure I'll forget.

[12:45] Vincent Nacon: sorry I was late

[12:45] Kadah Coba: VWR-13228

[12:45] JIRA-helper:

[#VWR-13228] Object can obtain and retain permissions indefinitely without avatar's knowledge and no way of knowing who took it - possible security issue

[12:45] Kadah Coba: Thats on the other issue

[12:45] Kadah Coba: Sure Andrew

[12:45] Andrew Linden: ok thanks

[12:46] TankMaster Teichmann: hehe roos are waking up :P

[12:47] Kallista Destiny: noisy beasts

[12:47] Vincent Nacon: any news on physic department if I may ask?

[12:47] Andrew Linden: No news on physics. All of those resources have been focused on getting mesh out the door.

[12:48] Vincent Nacon: what about sculpty's physic?

[12:48] Kadah Coba: Has the new cost system for mesh gotten anywhere yet?

[12:48] Andrew Linden: I don't think we'll ever supply proper physics for sculpty objects

[12:48] Andrew Linden: the mesh team is hoping everyone will switch over to mesh and forget about sculpty

[12:49] TankMaster Teichmann: i take it 64m prim support is still slated for same time as mesh?

[12:49] Rex Cronon: fat chance that sculpties will get any upgrade. they kind of look like a black sheep

[12:49] Kadah Coba: Not if the mesh costs are meh

[12:49] Vincent Nacon: I seem to recall sculpty having their own physic mesh while ago

[12:49] Zi Ree: Well, mesh cost needs to be attractive, or it will lose out.

[12:49] Kadah Coba: Plus you can barely modify mesh objects :/

[12:49] Andrew Linden: 64 meter is waiting for mesh, yes, as far as I know.

[12:49] TankMaster Teichmann: ok

[12:50] Zi Ree: Sculpties are jsut eggs to the physics, I believe.

[12:50] Vincent Nacon: in beta I meant

[12:50] Rex Cronon: why not allow 64megas before. in case there r some bugs with them u will catch them earlier:)

[12:50] Andrew Linden: The mesh accounting work is still underway. I don't know what the final formulas will be

[12:50] Techwolf Lupindo: Skulpies are the black sheep of meshes. They embarres the mesh famaily. They are tiny, full of bugs, don't have a cost, and render faster.

[12:50] Kallista Destiny: Oh, a question from the Beta group... If a Mesh object with 1 physicial prim costs say 5 prims, how many prims does that charge agains the limit for a Vehicle?

[12:51] Techwolf Lupindo: :-)

[12:51] Vincent Nacon: Don't be so sure about sculpty being gone for good after Mesh.... people (like me) will keep on using them as they can apply to Mega prim with size over 64m limit

[12:51] Andrew Linden: however yes, it won't make much sense to make the mesh costs prohibitively high since we're hoping that well-made mesh objects will actually be cheaper for the system than the equivalent objects made with regular prims

[12:52] Techwolf Lupindo: mega prim mountions are being used everywhere. They are here to stay it looks like.

[12:52] Andrew Linden: however, we'll see when that is true... some regular prims can be quite expensive (many triangles)

[12:52] Vincent Nacon: yup and only advantage over Mesh

[12:52] Rex Cronon: although meshes can be quite masive to transport as fast as sculpties. u get congested pipes:)

[12:52] Andrew Linden: and are thus artificially rated as "low cost" in the legacy prim accounting system.

[12:52] Liisa Runo: according to what i have heard in latest mesh OH, it seems there will still be plenty of situations where we prefer sculpt over mesh

[12:53] Vincent Nacon: but I was pretty sure sculpty had their own physic mesh on the beta (at one time?)

[12:54] Vincent Nacon: if not... what happened?

[12:54] Qie Niangao: I suppose if sculpties ever got physics, they'd need to have mesh costing (somehow scalable above 64m for the huge megaprim cases... which might be prohibitive)

[12:54] Andrew Linden: Not that I know of Vincent. I think Qarl was going to work on that but it never was done as a prototype.

[12:54] Jonathan Yap: (Kadah, I see in the viewer 1 source a commented out call to make a Permissions Control menu entry)

[12:54] Kadah Coba: Andrew, SVC-7060

[12:54] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7060] Reliable message RevokePermissions does not revoke permissions on objects that have been grated PERMISSION_TRIGGER_ANIMATION

[12:54] Andrew Linden: thanks

[12:55] Arawn Spitteler: Vehicle Sculpties should be phantom links.

[12:55] Vincent Nacon: optional

[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[12:56] Zi Ree: We should be able to have phantom links overall :P

[12:56] Vincent Nacon: I think a child prim should be allowed go phantom, regardless what kind of prim

[12:57] Zi Ree: ^

[12:57] Andrew Linden: That feature is in mesh I believe. You can select "no shape" for a child prim.

[12:57] Vincent Nacon: but parent must be physic or non-phantom when other prim are physical

[12:57] Kelly Linden: I think it can. You can set any child prim to have no physics shape in mesh, I'm pretty sure.

[12:57] Zi Ree: It would be great for regular prims, too, though.

[12:57] Vincent Nacon: that haven't happened yet for normal prims

[12:58] Vincent Nacon: yeah

[12:58] Liisa Runo: llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(x,[PRIM_TRUE_PHANTOM,TRUE]); and llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(x,[PRIM_PHANTOM,TRUE]); and llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(x,[PRIM_VOLUMEDETECT,TRUE]);

[12:58] Kadah Coba: It would be nice if region owners could have 256x256 mesh objects to replace the terrain

[12:58] Vincent Nacon: you could put all that in one list

[12:58] Arawn Spitteler: Region Prims?

[12:59] Rex Cronon: u can use 256^2 sculpties:)

[12:59] Leonel Iceghost: with 256 you fall in the sides, 260x260 would be nice

[12:59] Andrew Linden: That idea has been kicked around the lab: region-wide mesh terrain.

[12:59] Liisa Runo: 1024 is nice round number

[12:59] Andrew Linden: There are a few problems with it...

[12:59] Kadah Coba: It would be win. current terrain is ugly

[12:59] Simon Linden: Falcon wants to add mesh terrain

[12:59] Arawn Spitteler: Someone should jira, then, to discuss outside the lab

[12:59] Kallista Destiny: Yes what Kadah aid

[13:00] Andrew Linden: For example, not all 256x256 mesh objects are less expensive than the heightfield

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: Falcon

[13:00] Andrew Linden: it is possible to make some very bad inefficient mesh terrains

[13:00] Zi Ree: I want to build caves in terrain :P

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: true

[13:00] Kadah Coba: And if mesh costs also take in to account scripts, which other prims dont, thats going to be a factor to not use them as well >.>

[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[13:00] TankMaster Teichmann: for your den, Zi? :P

[13:00] Andrew Linden: not only bad for the server physics engine, but also for the viewer's rendering engine

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: Bye Meeter

[13:01] Zi Ree: I could put my box there :P

[13:01] Andrew Linden: On the other hand, some well-made (very low triangle count) mesh terrains would be better all around.

[13:01] Arawn Spitteler: Maybe Mesh can come with an acounting option, in the editor?

[13:01] Vincent Nacon: aye

[13:01] Liisa Runo: if we make bad meshes, then we suffer from the bad work, but we dont want the mesh terrain to be primarily effective, the primary cause to use mesh terrain is to have more control over the textures and especailly the shape, caves and stuff

[13:02] Vincent Nacon: but one the (ironic) issue that SL has with terrian and water.... they already have too much polygon than needed

[13:02] Kallista Destiny: althought I can see all kinds of Physics nightmares

[13:02] Rex Cronon: u can start digging trenches:)

[13:02] Vincent Nacon: same for the sky

[13:02] Arawn Spitteler: Imagine, using only a couple extra prims, to produce so many levels of cave?

[13:02] Vincent Nacon: I already had made a JIRA report on it

[13:02] Kallista Destiny: Number please?

[13:02] Simon Linden: Caves would be really cool to have, but would cause some interesting problems, like what llGround() returns

[13:03] Vincent Nacon: VWR-2260

[13:03] JIRA-helper:

[#VWR-2260] Make Polygon count more reasonable.

[13:03] Liisa Runo: llGround will return the old terrain under the mesh, and we will use llCastRay to follow the mesh terrain

[13:03] Rex Cronon: u u use raycast:)

[13:03] Bronson Blackadder: would act like antigravity

[13:04] Andrew Linden: Interestingly llCastRay() can sometimes be very inefficient for the heightfield terrain

[13:05] Liisa Runo: llGround was never very accurate either ;)

[13:05] Vincent Nacon: nor the water

[13:05] Andrew Linden: llCastRay() may actually be more efficient for mesh objects than a heighfield -- depends on the line segment.

[13:05] Zi Ree: Oh, about terrain ... how about finer-grained control over the heightfield manipulation in the viewer?

[13:05] Kallista Destiny: 2260 looks more like about 10 issues than 1, all related though

[13:05] Vincent Nacon: before you all get carried away with some suggestion, the meeting has ended 5 minutes ago

[13:06] Vincent Nacon: just a reminder

[13:06] TankMaster Teichmann: tc andres, simon, kelly

[13:06] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.

[13:06] Kallista Destiny: Thanks andrew and Simon

[13:06] Vincent Nacon: np, take care

[13:06] Rex Cronon: tc everybody

[13:06] Rex Cronon: and have fun:)

[13:06] Data Landau: ty

[13:06] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming and the good discussion

[13:06] Kadah Coba: Thank yous

[13:06] Kallista Destiny: These are alwasy interesting.

[13:06] TankMaster Teichmann: and informitive

[13:07] Zi Ree: grr

[13:07] Zi Ree wants llStandTarget()

[13:07] Kadah Coba: That would be win


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