Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.01.24
|Prev 2012.01.20||Next 2012.01.27|
List of Speakers
|Andrew Linden||Geenz Spad||Jonathan Yap|
|Kadah Coba||Kallista Destiny||Kelly Linden|
|Kylee Foxdale||Liisa Runo||Mobius Ryba|
|Nalates Urriah||Nexii Malthus||Oz Linden|
|Qie Niangao||Rex Cronon||Sahkolihaa Contepomi|
|Sera Lok||Simon Linden||Talarus Luan|
|TankMaster Finesmith||Techwolf Lupindo||Tiberious Neruda|
|Vincent Nacon||Visitor Detector||Yuzuru Jewell|
[12:03] Vincent Nacon: I know there was a setting/debug where you can disable that yellow lines
[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I hope Runitai fixes this: 2012-01-24T20:02:48Z llrender/llvertexbuffer.cpp(1475) : error
2012-01-24T20:02:48Z ERROR: LLVertexBuffer::mapVertexBuffer: memory allocation for vertex data failed.
[12:04] Talarus Luan: A few fractions of a frame, ok. Not going from 20fps to 2fps
[12:04] Nexii Malthus: Oh Simon/Andrew, could we get articles on the SL community blogs that highlight all the new LSL functions? It would be great if they had publicity
[12:04] TankMaster Finesmith: i think we have a fix for that, koli
[12:04] Vincent Nacon: you gotta aim where you want to sit, Andrew
[12:04] Simon Linden: Koli - that's the crash after the viewer memory bloats up, right?
[12:04] Vincent Nacon: it got proper physic
[12:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: No.
[12:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It's when the viewer runs out of VRAM and doesn't know how to handle it.
[12:05] Vincent Nacon: hang on Nexii, they start out with news first, then table would be open
[12:05] Andrew Linden: yes, news first...
[12:05] Rex Cronon: greetings all
[12:06] Simon Linden: well, in any case I'd love a fix ... I typically last 30-90 minutes in the beta viewer before a crash. I haven't made it through a user group in several weeks
[12:06] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: There's quite a big JIRA regarding it. Runitai's been doing some work on the vertex buffer but his recent commits have brought in a new bug.
[12:06] Andrew Linden: I think I mentioned last week that there was a bug or two in the 8-way neighbor code I had worked on, and was affecting the RC's.
[12:06] Andrew Linden: We've got that fixed, although the last bit of it needs testing.
[12:07] Vincent Nacon: how can we test it?
[12:07] Andrew Linden: I think the plan is to update Magnum with all fixes (if the last one passes) and the other RC channels will get a new codebase that is a different project.
[12:08] Andrew Linden: Well Vincent, the main failure mode is that you can't see into diagonal regions under the 8-way code.
[12:08] Andrew Linden: So if you can see into corner neighbors (or not) then you're testing it.
[12:09] Vincent Nacon: any other news before I ask more question about that?
[12:09] Andrew Linden: That's all the news I've got. Simon or Kelly?
[12:09] Simon Linden: I don't have any news this week
[12:09] Talarus Luan: llSetRegionPos status? :)
[12:10] Simon Linden: It's part of that release Andrew was talking about ... should be updated in Magnum tomorrow
[12:10] Andrew Linden: llSetRegionPos() is in the same project as the 8-way neighbor stuff, so will still be on Magnum I think.
[12:10] Sahkolihaa Contepomi is noticing a lot of 'LLWorld::addRegion:' spam in his log.
[12:10] Vincent Nacon: last week, I've asked about sims in those checkered layout zones, what become of them? It wasn't anwsered, btw
[12:10] Talarus Luan: Ahh ok
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Sahkolihaa, that addRegion() spam is probably related to one of the 8-way neighbor bugs
[12:11] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me getting a lot of this: 2012-01-24T20:10:52Z INFO: process_enable_simulator: simulator_enable() Enabling 22.214.171.124:13006 with code 1513902335
[12:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi nods.
[12:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, same.
[12:11] Andrew Linden: yup, that log too Techwolf.
[12:11] TankMaster Finesmith: INFO: newview/llworld.cpp(1070) : process_enable_simulator: simulator_enable() Enabling 126.96.36.199:13000 with code 1513911309
INFO: newview/llworld.cpp(180) : LLWorld::addRegion: Add region with handle: 1125899907100416 on host 188.8.131.52:13006
INFO: newview/llworld.cpp(184) : LLWorld::addRegion: Region exists, removing it
[12:11] Kallista Destiny: This is the casue of all the extrat bandwidth getting used?
[12:12] Kallista Destiny: extra*
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Kallista, are you noticing significantly extra bandwidth?
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Or are you referring to the bandwidth that someone's bot was noticing?
[12:12] Kallista Destiny: I haven't but some people are complaining about it.
[12:12] Andrew Linden: The answer is: yes those are probably related to that particular bug.
[12:12] Kadah Coba: SVC-6894
[12:12] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6894
[#SVC-6894] Excessive EnableSimulator message spamming to viewers
[12:13] Kadah Coba: SVC-7613
[12:13] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7613
[#SVC-7613] Greatly increased network activity since the 1/18/12 RC channel rolling restart
[12:13] Andrew Linden: ah yes. That is fixed in the next Magnum update already I think.
[12:13] Andrew Linden: There is one more fix we'd like to test and include in that update.
[12:13] Kadah Coba: 6894 is from April
[12:13] Andrew Linden: We'll see if we get it done.
[12:13] Andrew Linden: Oh hrm...
[12:13] Techwolf Lupindo: Please update the jira if fixes are in the pipline.
[12:14] Kadah Coba: I'm guessing same outcome, different roots
[12:14] Andrew Linden: Ok, I take that back... if SVC-6894 predates the 8-way neighbor stuff then it is not related.
[12:14] Vincent Nacon: last week, I've asked about sims in those checkered layout zones, what become of them? It wasn't anwsered, btw
[12:15] Kylee Foxdale: "may i please ask a quick question?"
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Vincent, the 8-way neighbor system will only connect to corner neighbors when an adjacent neighbor is shared.
[12:15] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[12:15] Andrew Linden: So that prevents the kitty-corner private islands from seeing into corner neighbors.
[12:15] Qie Niangao: I'm seeing a lot more Mainland microparcels abandoned and automatically going to auction. Kelly, I wonder if you could talk to Patch or somebody about setting a minimum size of 512 for that. I was bugging Support to glue them together, but I'm tiring of that hobby.
[12:15] Vincent Nacon: aye that was my first concerns
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Yes Kylee. go ahead and ask.
[12:16] Qie Niangao: (sorry: to sale, not "to auction" duh)
[12:16] Andrew Linden: Sure Qie, I'll try to relay your request to Patch.
[12:17] Qie Niangao: Thanks, Andrew.
[12:18] Andrew Linden: Qie, to make sure I'm understanding you... you'd like the smaller parcels to go up for sale rather than auction?
[12:18] Talarus Luan: Yeah, who do we need to talk to in order to get a mainland/land user group meeting again? Since Jack was let go, we haven't had a real forum for land concerns. :-/
[12:18] Qie Niangao: no, it's that they shouldn't go to sale or auction, below a minimum size
[12:18] Talarus Luan: No, we'd like them rejoined to adjacent parcels
[12:18] Qie Niangao: as it is, they get split off in little strips, and abandoned that way, then hard to get restored to usable size
[12:19] Andrew Linden: Ah hrm... you mean adjacent parcels that have also been freed?
[12:19] Jonathan Yap: I thought the plan was to offer them for sale to neighbors and if no takers then put them up for sale
[12:19] Talarus Luan: It just encourages people to start up the microparcel extortion crap again.
[12:19] Andrew Linden: Or to adjacent parcels that are already owned by Residents?
[12:19] Simon Linden: That makes sense, but probably has to be a manual process. I think someone used to do that
[12:19] Kallista Destiny: Keeps land barons from gloaming on to a 16 then asking L$20000 for it.
[12:19] Kylee Foxdale: Yes, please i have a concern about another resident that copybots..everything..i have submitted reports and nothing has been done...this person even had a store open at one time to sell copied items
[12:19] Kylee Foxdale: ;s
[12:19] Rex Cronon: but what is somebody wants to by a small size parcel? they won't be able to get one if all the small ones have been joined
[12:19] Vincent Nacon: wrong person to ask
[12:19] Qie Niangao: Yeah, the process is totally automatic now, which is great for realistic-sized parcels, but not so good when little strips are being sliced off.
[12:19] Vincent Nacon: :/
[12:20] Rex Cronon: what if*
[12:20] Qie Niangao: Rex, there are *plenty* of little parcels available. It's not necessary for the Governor to be making more of them.
[12:20] Talarus Luan: The uses for small-sized parcels are very few, and mostly odious in nature.
[12:21] Talarus Luan: That said, if you REALLY have to have one for a particular "good" use, then buy a larger parcel, cut out a micro, and put the rest for sale.
[12:21] Jonathan Yap: Rent boxes is a good use case
[12:21] Kallista Destiny: Yeah noxious I'd say
[12:21] Rex Cronon: kylee u might have to file a dmca request
[12:22] Talarus Luan: Anyway.. back to the meeting topic genre. :p
[12:22] Rex Cronon: i guess as long as there is at least one or two small parcels the others can be joined
[12:22] Simon Linden: K - I think Rex is right, a DMCA request is the best way to go
[12:22] Tiberious Neruda: pardon my lateness... is there an agenda I can view?
[12:22] Vincent Nacon: ok a user was asking a question but couldn't stay for long
[12:22] Vincent Nacon: [12:04] Nexii Malthus: Oh Simon/Andrew, could we get articles on the SL community blogs that highlight all the new LSL functions? It would be great if they had publicity
[12:22] Simon Linden: We dont have a technical solution to that problem here ... we're focused on the SL server, but due to the way SL is built, it's really hard to technically stop some copying
[12:22] Talarus Luan: Yep, that would be cool to have LSL/server updates in a convenient form.
[12:22] Andrew Linden: Kylee, you say you submitted reports. What kind of reports and to whom?
[12:23] Talarus Luan: As it is, I have to read all three RC wiki topics as well as the release notes to know what all has been released as well as what is about to be released/needs testing.
[12:24] Tiberious Neruda: (and my mesh queue's pooched too... I need to relog real fast here)
[12:24] Talarus Luan: and the release notes are just really short snippets.
[12:24] Andrew Linden: Nexii, I'll try to forward your suggestion about some blog articles about new LSL functions.
[12:24] Vincent Nacon: he's not here but I'll reply for him
[12:24] Mobius Ryba: ^^ will forward to his skype :p
[12:24] Qie Niangao: (more blog articles in general would be welcome, I think.)
[12:25] Talarus Luan: I guess one of us Residents could create a wiki article that served that function, but it would be nice if it was Linden-generated/supported.
[12:25] Rex Cronon: the best solution would be for the page to be updated more often: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:LSL_Functions
[12:25] Rex Cronon: :)
[12:25] Nalates Urriah: Are all the new LSL functions now supported by the viewer's editor?
[12:25] Andrew Linden: Not that I know of Nalates. Kelly do you know?
[12:26] Talarus Luan: All released functions work, because compilation is done server-side. However, the syntax-highlighting and hoverhelp may not until the viewer gets updated.
[12:26] Andrew Linden: I know that Falcon has complained about that and wanted to get rid of the viewer's editor config as a viewer-side file, and to supply it via a server-side web service or something.
[12:26] Kelly Linden: What Talarus says.
[12:26] Talarus Luan: Yes, I thought that was supposed to be done.
[12:26] Qie Niangao: *that* would be superb.
[12:26] Rex Cronon: most of the functions on that page have a status already:)
[12:27] Kelly Linden: That would be nice and I would like it, but it is not done.
[12:27] Jonathan Yap: I thought those functions had to be listen in the order they were created on the server?
[12:27] Jonathan Yap: *listed
[12:27] Kallista Destiny: I would hope thet the local config data would be kept in case there is an issue with the server.
[12:27] Oz Linden: The viewer changes for that would make a fine open source contribution....
[12:27] Andrew Linden: Ok, then I take it that everyone here supports that idea. I'll be sure to tell Falcon so he will be even more enthusiastic to get that done in his copius spare time.
[12:28] Techwolf Lupindo: Need a CAP name.
[12:28] Jonathan Yap: We would need a place to fetch the master list from
[12:28] Talarus Luan: Yus, it would be awesome
[12:28] Kelly Linden: I was talking with an open source dev at one point about what viewer changes would be needed, and would be happy to talk to anyone else about it.
[12:28] Vincent Nacon: copius spare time? madness!
[12:28] Jonathan Yap: Supply us with an up to date list and someone will make the viewer code change
[12:28] Techwolf Lupindo: Best that would be a CAP so that beta regines will supply the new LSL funtions.
[12:29] Rex Cronon: u can invite that linde to come here, kelly:)
[12:29] Andrew Linden: Hrm... maybe not even a cap, but just have a known URL where it can be found.
[12:29] Kallista Destiny: or at least point to the soruce for ame
[12:29] Kallista Destiny: same.
[12:29] Kelly Linden: Yes it would be a cap that could be queried for a version and for the complete list to avoid redownloading if the viewer already has the version.
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:30] Rex Cronon: wait. why make it a cpa, when u can make it a simple web page that can be read by anybody, without requiring a viewer?
[12:30] Simon Linden: Half over, viewer is 1.2GB and growing....
[12:30] Andrew Linden: And ideally the file would be generated by a script that reads form the server-side files that are used by the compilation libraries.
[12:30] Rex Cronon: why make it a cap*
[12:30] Techwolf Lupindo: Rex, beta grid and RC channles will have different functions aviable.
[12:31] Andrew Linden: Good point Techwolf.
[12:31] Rex Cronon: well. u can make a different one for each of them
[12:31] Rex Cronon: it won't be more than 100kb:)
[12:32] TankMaster Finesmith: my viewer is using 1.4GB atm
[12:32] Techwolf Lupindo: So the first CAP request will return a URI that has a version number in the URI so a simple cache check can be done so a second query to down the data will not have to be done on every regine change.
[12:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Wow, texture error caused a crash: 2012-01-24T20:30:37Z llimage/llimage.cpp(173) : error
2012-01-24T20:30:37Z ERROR: LLImageBase::allocateData: LLImageBase::allocateData called with bad dimensions: 0x0x1
[12:32] Kelly Linden: sorry about that, viewer memleak got me
[12:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 0x0x1 - how the hell?
[12:32] TankMaster Finesmith: yeah, weve seen a few of those as well
[12:32] Oz Linden: better to use a conditional http request
[12:33] Kallista Destiny: I'm using .6 GB
[12:33] Tiberious Neruda: got a physics question when there's time for it
[12:33] Tiberious Neruda: well, pair of 'em, honestly
[12:33] Kylee Foxdale: yes....I have sent abuse reports to LL and i have contacted the creator as well
[12:33] Talarus Luan: Holy memory leak! I am at 1.4GB.. gonna crash soon.
[12:33] Rex Cronon: it is a black an white image, that is why u have 0x0x1
[12:33] Simon Linden: Go for it, Tiberious
[12:33] Techwolf Lupindo: Oz, as far as I know, the http servers still not support cache. ie: IF-expires, time stamp, e-tag, etc.
[12:34] Talarus Luan: 3.2.6 is pants
[12:34] Jonathan Yap: Send the server a query saying "I have version N" and the server will respond with something like "You need to update to version X"
[12:34] Andrew Linden: Kylee, I believe you need to send a DMCA takedown request. Let me look for a link about it...
[12:34] Tiberious Neruda: 1) Prims with physics on now actually collide properly with other prims. However, meshes with a physics mesh now have the 'hover' effect. Why is this?
[12:34] Kylee Foxdale: ok ty
[12:34] Simon Linden: http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php
[12:35] Andrew Linden: Yup, that is the one.
[12:35] Talarus Luan: Just make sure you understand what it is, and get a lawyer if you don't. <.<
[12:35] Tiberious Neruda: the green is using prims to approximate the desired shape
[12:35] Techwolf Lupindo: And libcurl in the client does not support a local cache.
[12:35] Vincent Nacon: I've spoken to her about the DMCA stuff, she's not the creator
[12:35] Vincent Nacon: all taken care of
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda: while blue is using the physics mesh supplied at upload
[12:36] Andrew Linden: Tiberious, yes the old style "prims" have their shape shrunk... well, most of those shapes.
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda: ah
[12:36] Talarus Luan: Gonna have to relog.. viewer is filling memory.
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda: and meshes haven't had that happen yet?
[12:36] Kylee Foxdale: but dont i need to be the creator to file this kind of a report?
[12:36] Andrew Linden: Turns out that dynamic ([X] Physics) objects that have concave primitives (torus, cut shapes, etc) will also collide with a gap.
[12:36] Sera Lok: when mem bloat gonna be fixed again? ^^
[12:36] Rex Cronon: some people have chosen to "shame" those that copybot all over the interned(youtube, flickr, facebook...) ;)
[12:36] Vincent Nacon: thanks god I have 8GB of RAM
[12:37] Simon Linden: We're not sure, Sera -- I've been complaining as load as anyone about it
[12:37] Techwolf Lupindo: Although webkit does support a local cache, webkit can only fetch and display data, webkit does not retrun data to the caller.
[12:37] Tiberious Neruda: I see
[12:37] Rex Cronon: over the internet*
[12:37] Simon Linden: I assume it's not an easy problem
[12:37] Sera Lok: i do too Vincent... i still crash ^^
[12:37] Andrew Linden: As for the mesh objects... what you need to be be doing is specifying the exact physics shape to use, and to shrink it by 0.05 m from all sides.
[12:37] Liisa Runo: Since some time ago, i have noticed strange behavior that happen sometimes: After crossing a region border with vehicle, the vehicle get instantly returned after unsit, not waiting the 4hour autoreturn time. What is this?
[12:37] Vincent Nacon: I must be doing it right...
[12:37] Sera Lok: yes at least i know the Lindens have issues too... ;)
[12:38] Tiberious Neruda: 2) why is it you can't set attributes per prim in a link set?
[12:38] Simon Linden: Were there any premissions restrictions in the 2nd region, Liisa?
[12:38] Talarus Luan: Kyky, you *MUST* be the creator, or his/her legal representative (ie, lawyer) to issue a DMCA complaint.
[12:38] Kallista Destiny: Creator, or copyright holder.
[12:38] Andrew Linden: Hrm... Liisa, that sounds like a bug (assuming the parcel wasn't already full).
[12:38] Qie Niangao: Liisa, is the parcel by any chance no-entry?
[12:38] Liisa Runo: LL owned sandbox was the last place i noticed this, so no restrictions
[12:39] Liisa Runo: might be no entry
[12:39] Andrew Linden: Tiberious, what exact per-prim attributes are you asking about?
[12:40] Tiberious Neruda: things like Friction, Density and Bounciness
[12:40] Andrew Linden: There are some per-prim properties that can be set for linked sets.
[12:40] Vincent Nacon: like gravity and frictions?
[12:40] Vincent Nacon: oy...
[12:40] Tiberious Neruda: yeah
[12:40] Liisa Runo: but no-entry always been ignored on region cross. and LL boxes have no-entry so that followers cant escape the lil sign parcel
[12:40] Andrew Linden: Ah...
[12:40] Andrew Linden: The Havok physics engine does not support distinct friction coefficients on sub parts of rigid bodies by default.
[12:40] Liisa Runo: anyway, this fast return is somewhat new behavior. is there some logic in it? or is it a bug?
[12:40] Simon Linden: No entry is ignored for vehicles, but gets enforced now if you stand up from the vehicle
[12:41] Andrew Linden: It would probably be possible to add that behavior to the physics engine, however it would likely come at a noticable performance cost
[12:41] Tiberious Neruda: I mean, clearly some settings really woudn't be such a good idea, like gravity, but friction and density would be useful
[12:41] Simon Linden: There were changes made in that area a few months ago
[12:41] Vincent Nacon: lack of heritage
[12:41] Liisa Runo: how to prevent it from happening?
[12:41] Andrew Linden: since each contact event would require a lookup for the friction of the sub-part, and then be modified before the consequences of that contact were computed.
[12:42] Tiberious Neruda: ah
[12:42] Andrew Linden: So the short answer is that it would not be perfomant.
[12:42] Vincent Nacon: yeah, we need to get object heritage first thouh
[12:42] Vincent Nacon: though*
[12:42] Rex Cronon: what exactly is "object heritage"?
[12:42] Tiberious Neruda: at the moment, my workaround is a coalesced object, but... I don't think that would be such a good idea when my project here gets to end-users
[12:43] Vincent Nacon: wait... I might be using wrong word for it
[12:43] Andrew Linden: "object hierarchy" perhaps?
[12:44] Vincent Nacon: yup, sorry, brain fart
[12:44] Simon Linden: I almost made it to 1.5GB
[12:45] Sera Lok: -_- i get to about 1.3 then byebye
[12:45] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I haven't had a memory error yet, but I've also adjusted my memory settings like MaxHeapSize and such.
[12:45] Talarus Luan: You mean hierarchial linksets, Vince?
[12:45] Vincent Nacon: 1.7gb here
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: yes
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: that way we could do more with physic
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: even with joints
[12:46] Tiberious Neruda: yeah. I miss joints....
[12:46] Geenz Spad: would at least be able to trivially animate some objects
[12:46] Tiberious Neruda: how long has it been since those were broken?
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: but having those attributes is going to require those
[12:47] Kallista Destiny: Still at .6
[12:47] Vincent Nacon: they wasn't really broken
[12:47] Tiberious Neruda: they were disabled
[12:47] Andrew Linden: Joints were only broken for performance, and stability, and code complexity.
[12:47] Vincent Nacon: yeah, no one could understand how to use it... kept crashing sims with bad physic prim-sex
[12:47] Andrew Linden: And then they were buggy for take/rez/region-cross too.
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: and yes, I'm using that word very carefully
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: prim-sex :P
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: (prim in hollowed prim)
[12:48] Rex Cronon: haha
[12:49] Tiberious Neruda: but... it's been YEARS since then
[12:49] Liisa Runo mumbles: so unfair that we are only allowed to grow and roll joints in Mature sim but we must go to Adult sim to smoke it
[12:49] Sera Lok: :)
[12:49] Tiberious Neruda: were always told they'd come back when it was easier to handle...
[12:49] Vincent Nacon: yeah... Joint need better name
[12:49] Talarus Luan: Yes, hierarchial linksets would be really awesome.
[12:49] Vincent Nacon: I dislikes drug hippies
[12:49] Vincent Nacon whispers: :)
[12:49] Kallista Destiny: bong?
[12:50] Jonathan Yap: Articulated points
[12:50] Andrew Linden: Havok calls them "constraints"
[12:50] Talarus Luan: Been wishing for those for years.
[12:50] Vincent Nacon: yeah constraints is standardized enough for that name
[12:51] Techwolf Lupindo: I run a 64-bit build. I don't have mem problem, the client happy will chew up 10Gs of ram if need be. :-)
[12:51] Vincent Nacon: eh? when did 64bit viewer come into play?
[12:51] Jonathan Yap: Techwolf, your solution only postpones the inevitable
[12:51] Techwolf Lupindo: (lag)
[12:51] Talarus Luan: That's great, but I don't have 10G of ram for it to chew through. :P
[12:51] TankMaster Finesmith: boa!
[12:51] TankMaster Finesmith: :D
[12:52] Yuzuru Jewell: Where is 64bit viewer?
[12:52] Kallista Destiny: Articulation points, that which something move about
[12:52] TankMaster Finesmith: 64bit viewer is self compiled
[12:52] Jonathan Yap: Yuzuru, you have to make your own on linux
[12:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I haven't ran into system memory errors on shining-fixes yet. Only video memory ones.
[12:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: But I've been poking Runitai about those...
[12:53] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you Jonathan.. But I want use it on windows7..
[12:53] Tankmaster Finesmith: there is no 64bit windows viewer
[12:54] Jonathan Yap: Yuzuru, if it were that easy it would already have been done for WIndows
[12:54] Tankmaster Finesmith: self compiled or not
[12:54] Vincent Nacon: ah well... what good does 64bit actually do for you anyway?
[12:54] Kallista Destiny: It's supposed to be hard, if it ere east everyone would do it.
[12:54] Tiberious Neruda: allows it to use more memory when it needs to?
[12:54] Geenz Spad: mostly just more memory access
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: I still can do that with 32bit
[12:55] Andrew Linden: Bao Linden, do you know how far toward the horizon a 64-bit windows SL viewer is ?
[12:55] Jonathan Yap: But if things were working right you would not have to need that additional memory range
[12:55] Geenz Spad: 32-bit processes can typically only access up to 4GB of RAM (assuming LAA)
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: more memory, more registers to access and store date
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: would be slightly faster
[12:55] Yuzuru Jewell: I understand I must compile it by myself..
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: but... I don't see other improvement it could other than videocard support
[12:55] Geenz Spad: not necessarily on the slightly faster part
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: but it owuld also open up adding more advanced optizations, like AVX
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: which doesn't even need 64bit
[12:55] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Video card support? o_O
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: just more VRAM and driver supoort
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: support*
[12:56] Vincent Nacon: ahh optization
[12:56] Vincent Nacon: hmm
[12:56] Geenz Spad: not quite Vincent :P
[12:56] Vincent Nacon: I know I know... but most of the "lag" are render engine issue
[12:56] Geenz Spad: you'd mostly just be able to access more than 4GB of system memory with the viewer by using a 64-bit version
[12:56] Tankmaster Finesmith: viewer is hard coded for 2GB vid ram max, but it has diffculty hadeling more than 512
[12:56] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Actually, one of the main problems is that the viewer is too single-threaded.
[12:57] Tankmaster Finesmith: so allowing it to access 6GB vid ram wouldnt help
[12:57] Vincent Nacon: but who does hit that limit on a 64bit system when running 32bit?
[12:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I've used 6.5GiB before. :P
[12:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Not on SL, but total.
[12:57] Vincent Nacon: doing what?
[12:57] Kadah Coba: Running the viewer on 64bit version of widows drops the crash rate by half
[12:57] Geenz Spad: threading of certain bits of the viewer would likely be more beneficial than doing a pure 64-bit variant of the viewer honestly
[12:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Minecraft, SL, Chrome, other bits and pieces.
[12:57] Tankmaster Finesmith: what kadah said
[12:57] Geenz Spad: at least if you want to look at overall performance
[12:58] Simon Linden: Video editing can eat up memory pretty quickly
[12:58] Jane1 Bookmite: huggers,
[12:58] Visitor Detector: Returning visitor to your land: Kennylex Luckless
[12:58] Kallista Destiny: Hmmmmmm I'm currently running 22 threads
[12:58] Jane1 Bookmite: oops,
[12:58] Tankmaster Finesmith: using a 64bit vista or win7 OS alone helps a lot (at least with phoenix and firestorm, not sure about other viewers)
[12:58] Vincent Nacon: yup but I meant being realistically... doing that while on SL?
[12:58] Kadah Coba: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26299591/Stats/avg-os-crash-win.png
[12:59] Kallista Destiny: Welcome back Bao
[12:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Doing what while on SL? Playing Minecraft and such?
[12:59] Geenz Spad: I've done worse than video editing while on SL :P
[12:59] Tankmaster Finesmith: uh, by andrew :P
[12:59] Rex Cronon: sometimes when u try to record video the whole computer slwos down:(
[12:59] Geenz Spad: gotta love high-end ray tracers
[12:59] Tankmaster Finesmith: and wb
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: he's still here
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: [12:59] Andrew Linden left the region.
[12:59] Andrew Linden entered the region (6.68 m).
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: annnnd now it's time for him to go
[13:00] Andrew Linden: wow, I crashed
[13:00] Talarus Luan: BWAHAHA Andrew is Ruthed! :P
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[13:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Crashy user group today.
[13:00] Andrew Linden: That doesn't happen very often. Probably the memory bloat thing.
[13:00] Jonathan Yap: Again?
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: mem leak issue?
[13:00] Rex Cronon: wb
[13:00] Andrew Linden: Which I hear Bao is working on.
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: oh good!
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: thats one of our biggest crashers atm
[13:01] Rex Cronon: sometimes the data u get from sim can crash u
[13:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yuzu crashed too?
[13:01] Andrew Linden: Simon, I thought to back up the user group transcripts to about 12:52
[13:01] Vincent Nacon: quit crashing to make me look bad!
[13:01] Vincent Nacon: :P
[13:01] Talarus Luan: I now have that for posterity :P
[13:01] Kallista Destiny: lol
[13:01] Andrew Linden: If you could save the tail end of the transcripts and send them to me that would be great.
[13:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I'm on shining-fixes. Crashes are bound to happen. :p
[13:01] Yuzuru Jewell: yes, I crushed..
[13:02] Simon Linden: ok, I can get them from now back to 12:50 so we have a touch of overlap
[13:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: im still at 1.4GB memory used
[13:02] Andrew Linden: great, gimme everything since 12:50.
[13:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 1.1GiB system RAM, 710MiB VRAM.
[13:02] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks for coming everyone.
[13:02] Vincent Nacon: I'm at 1.7GB
[13:03] Jonathan Yap: hmmm, one of my alts shows online and I logged out 45 minutes ago
[13:03] Kallista Destiny: 0.670
[13:03] Kallista Destiny: Using last nights Firestone Shining.
[13:03] Rex Cronon: tc andrew, simon, and everybody else. have a nice day everybody:)
[13:03] Qie Niangao: Thanks all. Have fun
[13:03] Vincent Nacon: Firestone?
[13:03] Jonathan Yap: Thank you everyone
[13:03] Geenz Spad: looks like koli crashed again
[13:04] Yuzuru Jewell: I'm at 7G.
[13:04] Talarus Luan: Does drap/drop work? :P
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: Firestorm....
[13:04] Nalates Urriah: Firestone, that is the round viewer with the hole in the middle
[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: im on firestorm with FUI intergrated in
[13:04] Vincent Nacon: ok everyone... let's all crash at the same time to end the meeting
[13:04] Vincent Nacon: :P
[13:04] Tiberious Neruda: LOL
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: Sorry I kived on Firestone Ave for 20 years
[13:04] Andrew Linden: Crash Now!
[13:04] Geenz Spad: 8D
[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: tc simon, kelly, andrew
[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: thx for your time
[13:04] Tiberious Neruda: for me, a clogged mesh queue's just as good as a crash
[13:04] Vincent Nacon: where's the force crash button?
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: THank you for a most interestinbg meeting
[13:04] Talarus Luan: I pre-empted crash by relogging :P
[13:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Bao must be loving my crash reports: 2012-01-24T21:03:38Z llimage/llimage.cpp(244) : error
2012-01-24T21:03:38Z ERROR: LLImageBase::getData: Bad memory allocation for the image buffer!
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