Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.03.23
|Prev 2012.03.20||Next 2012.03.27|
List of Speakers
|Andrew Linden||Ardy Lay||Chieron Tenk|
|Draconis Neurocam||FadeOut Razorfen||Falcon Linden|
|Fancy Detector||Flip Idlemind||Johan Laurasia|
|Kallista Destiny||Keli Kyrie||MartinRJ Fayray|
|Moundsa Mayo||Nalates Urriah||Rex Cronon|
|Sahkolihaa Contepomi||Squirrel Wood||TankMaster Finesmith|
|Techwolf Lupindo||Vincent Nacon||xstorm Radek|
[16:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Andrew.
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Hello
[16:03] xstorm Radek: hi Andrew
[16:04] Kallista Destiny: Hi Andrew
[16:04] Andrew Linden: hrm... no table today I guess.
[16:04] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi all.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: Simon can't make it today.
[16:04] xstorm Radek: i bet he is hiding from me Andrew lol
[16:04] Johan Laurasia: I can pull out mine
[16:05] Vincent Nacon: I can see why
[16:05] xstorm Radek: aaawwww
[16:05] Andrew Linden: I stand at all my other meetings
[16:05] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[16:05] Andrew Linden: but this one just doesn't feel right unless I'm sitting at a table or some sort of circle
[16:05] Johan Laurasia: take a load off everyone
[16:05] Squirrel Wood: standing around is not a good thing. Every tf2 sniper can attest to that :)
[16:06] Vincent Nacon: you used to stand at meeting but then you took an arrow to the knee
[16:06] Rex Cronon: kind of like the knights of the round table:)
[16:06] Squirrel Wood: unsquare table :p
[16:06] Johan Laurasia: knights of the lemon table
[16:06] Vincent Nacon: except it's not round
[16:06] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:06] Andrew Linden: lessee... news...
[16:07] Rex Cronon: :)
[16:07] Andrew Linden: I got some help with the LSL syntax highlighting from Ima Mechanique a week ago
[16:08] Nalates Urriah: hooray Ima
[16:08] Flip Idlemind is aware of some new functions, but...
[16:08] Johan Laurasia: Go Ima
[16:08] Flip Idlemind signed an NDA
[16:08] Flip Idlemind: Gyahahhah ooooh
[16:08] Andrew Linden: which I think included some text descriptions for the various LSL constants that I needed
[16:08] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, Ima works HARD on LSLEditor (and other stuff)
[16:08] Kallista Destiny: we're Knghts of the oval table, we dance when 'er were able.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: however I didn't get to wrangling the syntax files this week :-(
[16:08] Andrew Linden: but I plan on getting it done
[16:08] Vincent Nacon puts his whip away...
[16:08] xstorm Radek: did they not kill lsl editor yet ?
[16:09] xstorm Radek: what happen to c#
[16:09] Andrew Linden: I've been working on the pathfinding stuff, and some support for the wilderness regions currently up for inspection on the main grid somewhere
[16:09] Moundsa Mayo: Nope. Alive and kicking, and staying fairly up-to-date with new functionality.
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: um xstorm, I think you're jumping the gun there but wait for his news
[16:09] Andrew Linden: so I don't have any other maintenance news
[16:10] Flip Idlemind: Well...Do you have any news about when the "Experience" beta is supposed to start?
[16:10] Andrew Linden: The syntax highlighting stuff I'm talking about is first just to update the viewer project with some unhandled constants and LSL calls.
[16:10] Flip Idlemind cries on the floor
[16:10] Flip Idlemind: (Can you tell I'm impatient?)
[16:10] Andrew Linden: Then eventually to provide a way for viewers to download the syntax from the servers.
[16:11] xstorm Radek: its ok FLIP hugs
[16:11] MartinRJ Fayray: hello
[16:11] Andrew Linden: C# is on hold indefinitely
[16:11] Rex Cronon: hi
[16:11] xstorm Radek: aaaawwww
[16:11] xstorm Radek: bye c#
[16:11] xstorm Radek: **ok i wuv u byby!!**
[16:11] Andrew Linden: You'll have to ask Kelly for any news about C# plans. That is what I would do.
[16:11] Flip Idlemind: On hold indefinitely doesn't necessarily mean never gonna happen
[16:11] Flip Idlemind: If I understand it correctly
[16:12] Vincent Nacon: not never but it'll be a very long while
[16:12] Andrew Linden: Yes.
[16:12] Vincent Nacon: 3 or 4 years at most I'd say
[16:12] Flip Idlemind: Hopefully the Experience tools will be out by then
[16:12] Johan Laurasia: indefinate means not defined.
[16:12] Andrew Linden: I think it would happen if we could get enough dev's and time to work on it, I believe. That is, it is still a good idea in my opinion.
[16:13] xstorm Radek: in my past record on hold = dead and will never be like back in the ay with region tree growing and region weather
[16:13] Andrew Linden: sure, those are two good data points
[16:13] Andrew Linden: maybe there were some projects we put on hold and eventually finished...
[16:14] Draconis Neurocam: windlight
[16:14] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:14] Johan Laurasia: well, overall, there's just alot to do too.
[16:14] Rex Cronon: if the c# ever gets hold u guys will have to kind of restrict it otherwise might lead to security problems
[16:14] Andrew Linden: yup
[16:14] Johan Laurasia: no shortage of ideas, just man hours to develop it.
[16:14] Vincent Nacon: yeah. so it's not even on their future plan
[16:14] Andrew Linden: Kelly can explain the plan on how to sanitize C# operations, I think.
[16:14] xstorm Radek: what more se problems then we have now ?
[16:15] Vincent Nacon: it's just "extra"
[16:15] Flip Idlemind: Another good (and currently on-hold) idea is the idea of different script "versions", so functions could be changed without breaking old scripts
[16:15] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:15] Andrew Linden: Flip, I think script versioning would be a pre-req for C# stuff.
[16:15] Flip Idlemind: Those two got mentioned in the same sentence a lot, yeah
[16:15] Flip Idlemind: Back in the day
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: maybe but wasn't there a Linden doing concept of that, Andrew?
[16:16] xstorm Radek: ;)
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: Cory or someone?
[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: would have been babbage
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: maybe
[16:16] Andrew Linden: Yes, I think Babbage and Kelly had been working on it.
[16:16] xstorm Radek: is not cory linden gone ?
[16:16] Techwolf Lupindo: My vote is for lui. C# has the MS gorilla over it. Even though C# affendios will say C# is free of IP by MS, lawers will tell you otherwise.
[16:16] Johan Laurasia: quite some time I'd say x
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: let's talk about something that LL can do at this moment
[16:17] Andrew Linden: The table is open.
[16:17] Rex Cronon: techwolf u meant to say "lua"?
[16:17] xstorm Radek: i was still cleaning up litter prims from cory linden
[16:17] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Andrew, could you look at the logs of a sim for me? It crashed five times earlier within two hours. Twice yesterday. I don't know why it did.
[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: andrew how is the mainland prim encroachment flip being switched going?
[16:18] Andrew Linden: Draconis, that switch happened about a week ago.
[16:18] Andrew Linden: I haven't heard of any problems.
[16:18] Draconis Neurocam: ah i must have missed it
[16:18] Andrew Linden: We didn't announce it in the blog, but there is a quietly deployed Knowledge Base documentation update about it somewhere.
[16:19] xstorm Radek: out dated knowledge base wiki one ?
[16:19] Andrew Linden: Also, I haven't heard anyone mention that they have successfully used it.
[16:19] Techwolf Lupindo: I've read where there are "return this prim" parites going on mainland. Where nieborts are returning all the annoying crap by there niebores.
[16:19] Nalates Urriah: an bloggers blabbed
[16:19] Vincent Nacon: I don't own land
[16:19] Andrew Linden: oh really Techwolf? I hadn't heard.
[16:20] Techwolf Lupindo: I'll see if I can find it again....Hmm....history....
[16:20] Flip Idlemind: So, table is open huh? Have I mentioned I'm dying for new Experience info?
[16:21] Andrew Linden: I'll try to remember to ask around in LL to see if anyone has noticed a change in frequency of "please remove this object" requests to Lindens.
[16:21] Vincent Nacon: any progress from Falcon, pathfinding or any of the physic related?
[16:21] Nalates Urriah: lol poor Flip
[16:21] Techwolf Lupindo: "OK MISCHIEF MAKERS - there is a new popular pastime arising on the SL grid called RETURN IT ALL"
[16:21] Andrew Linden: Flip, I don't have any news on Experience.
[16:22] xstorm Radek: nerf gun and asking around at LL andrew ?
[16:22] Andrew Linden: Falcons said he'd try to make it to this meeting later.
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: guess he got news
[16:22] Flip Idlemind: Ok. Sorry, I'm just losing my mind a little over the lack of follow-up-ness
[16:22] Flip Idlemind: I signed the little document over a week ago T_T
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: yeah... Flip... shhh
[16:23] Squirrel Wood: you will get there :)
[16:23] Squirrel Wood: sloooooooooooooowly
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: or never
[16:23] xstorm Radek: and 2 years later you may see the graph move
[16:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi guesses her question was missed.
[16:24] xstorm Radek: yep
[16:24] Andrew Linden: restate it please Sahkolihaa
[16:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 'Andrew, could you look at the logs of a sim for me? It crashed five times earlier within two hours. Twice yesterday. I don't know why it did.'
[16:24] Andrew Linden: ah, a request to look at logs? What region/
[16:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: FurNation Hell, again.
[16:25] FadeOut Razorfen: i want falcon D:< he left one major glitch in pathfinding untouched (the one with instant rotation change when path is changed, it makes characters look really weird)
[16:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I have a feeling some script is crashing it.
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: of course
[16:25] Squirrel Wood: symptoms: stops responding, traffic zero, disconnect. no evidence of griefing
[16:25] Andrew Linden: Hrm... yeah, currently it is "down".
[16:25] Rex Cronon: somebody really "loves" that sim?
[16:25] xstorm Radek: i know why regions are crashing just give it time that problem wil be fix
[16:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh joy...
[16:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: That's the sixth time today, Andrew. :/
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: FurNations have been under attack so many times than anywhere else
[16:25] Johan Laurasia: ouch
[16:26] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hell and Vista get hit easily due to the sandboxes.
[16:26] Andrew Linden: hrm... crashes for it are not showing up, so yeah I think it can't come up for some reason
[16:26] Techwolf Lupindo: I think furnations are a huge target of griefters in general.
[16:26] Flip Idlemind: Speaking of Furnation Hell, that reminds me. There's a message called "ObjectUpdate", that sends "OwnerID" only if the object has attached sounds or particles. Any reason why that can't or shouldn't be sent along with all object update messages?
[16:26] Rex Cronon: how r those sim usually crashed?
[16:26] Andrew Linden: I'll ask our #dnoc team to look into it now.
[16:26] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Usually physics, but the last 6 today weren't caused by that.
[16:26] Andrew Linden: It's be hard for me to wrangle that region and also pay attention here.
[16:26] xstorm Radek: they will not Andrew the problem is a known problem and isgetting lookd at:)
[16:27] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Thanks, Andrew. Much appreciated.
[16:27] xstorm Radek: its the same problem violet and bear has
[16:27] xstorm Radek: and a number of other regions
[16:27] Andrew Linden: No, Violet and Bear were "up" but unavailable earlier in the week.
[16:27] Ardy Lay: Andrew, it might be SEC-1029
[16:28] Andrew Linden: Are they unavailable now?
[16:28] Rex Cronon: physical crashes due to rezzing of hundreds/thousands of physical prims being rezzed?
[16:28] xstorm Radek: no rex
[16:28] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Rex - in the FN sims, sometimes those do crash the sim.
[16:28] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Not always. Sometimes they run fine.
[16:29] Flip Idlemind: I had an idea for a "Derender By Owner" viewer-side feature, but for it to work (well, for it to work perfectly) the viewer would need to know every object's owner before "creating" it
[16:29] xstorm Radek: heavy load of physics is no real problem
[16:29] MartinRJ Fayray: I have put something on the agenda!
[16:29] xstorm Radek: but if the region will not autorestart thats aproblem
[16:29] Andrew Linden: FurNation Hell isn't down for SEC-1029. It is something else. Not sure right now.
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: you don't have to do that
[16:30] MartinRJ Fayray: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28634
[16:30] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-28634] The build-(tools-)window pops open if the dragged object under your mouse dies or gets deleted.
[16:30] Rex Cronon: hmm. how do i say this? there something that make that might help with that sim crashing.
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: just spill it on the table
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:30] Rex Cronon: sorry i didn't mean to self-advertise
[16:30] MartinRJ Fayray: It's causing problems with a slingshot game I am programming.
[16:30] MartinRJ Fayray: when you drag a physical object while it dies, the build/tools-window pops open
[16:30] xstorm Radek: is it simple attacks andrew? if so i will no longer watch them ?
[16:31] Vincent Nacon: Martin, I don't see how that's a bug
[16:31] Flip Idlemind: I guess it's unexpected behavior
[16:31] Vincent Nacon: maybe trivial
[16:32] MartinRJ Fayray: no it will stay open only as long as you hold down the mouse button
[16:32] Fancy Detector: Falcon Linden has arrived!
[16:32] MartinRJ Fayray: it's definitely not expected
[16:32] Andrew Linden: Well, its a viewer UI problem, and it kinda sounds like a bug to me.
[16:32] xstorm Radek: hi Falcon
[16:32] Andrew Linden: Dunno why the window would pop up.
[16:32] Johan Laurasia: yeah, doesn't sound like it was meant to do that.
[16:32] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[16:33] xstorm Radek: ???? is it the can not edit object ?
[16:35] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I don't see Falcon. Maybe he'll come back.
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: he's at the bottom
[16:35] Rex Cronon: he crashed on arrival?
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: just outside of the building but in between that and the hill
[16:35] xstorm Radek: may be opengl bug again
[16:36] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[16:36] Vincent Nacon: there he is
[16:36] Falcon Linden: I don't like the sound of that
[16:37] Vincent Nacon: get the net!
[16:37] Andrew Linden: Hey Falcon, got any news?
[16:37] Falcon Linden: Well, we've fixed some major bugs on the pathfinding regions
[16:37] Falcon Linden: like the one where nothing worked for 24 hours
[16:37] Falcon Linden: that was a fun one
[16:37] xstorm Radek: hi Falcon
[16:37] Vincent Nacon: nice
[16:38] Falcon Linden: I'd also like to remind folks about the upcoming agni beta
[16:38] Rex Cronon: an pathfind object that targets andrew would be very useful if u rezz in the wrong place:)
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: do tell
[16:38] Rex Cronon: hi falcon
[16:38] Falcon Linden: if you're interested, e-mail firstname.lastname@example.org
[16:38] Falcon Linden: you must own a full region to participate in the beta
[16:38] xstorm Radek: OMG no no not beta agni
[16:38] Andrew Linden: BTW, it looks like FurNation Hell might be back up.
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: ..
[16:39] Falcon Linden: Also, in that beta, we've reduced the limits on llCastRay
[16:39] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Seems to be according to the reporter script I have in IRC.
[16:39] xstorm Radek: thats good
[16:39] Andrew Linden: Yes, this would be pre-RC beta on agni, sorta like the Havok4 voluntary channel, or the early mesh beta.
[16:40] Falcon Linden: right. A lot has changed, so we want lots of testing and lots of participation :)
[16:40] Johan Laurasia: sorta grease it in slow
[16:40] Vincent Nacon: Falcon: sent
[16:40] Andrew Linden: Falcon, don't you mean we've "removed the limits on llCastRay()" ?
[16:40] Falcon Linden: but mainly I'm here to see if anyone has tried the new pathfinding viewer
[16:40] xstorm Radek: if i remember right there is some linden lab land you can put that beta on falcon lol
[16:40] Johan Laurasia: got it.
[16:40] Falcon Linden: Andrew: naah, it still returns RC_ERR_ something something about bad region performance
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: no but I'm working out some projects for it
[16:41] Techwolf Lupindo: Can't. It is still a 'sekrit' project and the code is not avaiblle for us to try.
[16:41] Falcon Linden: Techwolf: you mean TPV?
[16:41] MartinRJ Fayray: yes
[16:41] Falcon Linden: why would we give out code that we don't even know works? :P
[16:41] Falcon Linden: try out our viewer first
[16:41] Techwolf Lupindo LOL
[16:41] Kallista Destiny shudders
[16:41] Techwolf Lupindo: So WE can fix bugs.
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: yeah, duh. Beta!
[16:42] Techwolf Lupindo: :-)
[16:42] Falcon Linden: Techwolf: pffft ;)
[16:42] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: LOL
[16:42] Falcon Linden: users don't fix bugs, they make bugs :)
[16:42] FadeOut Razorfen: Oh hey falcon, glad you made it... I was digging more info about rough rotation changes at pathfinding, tried to closely inspect how pathfinding exactly works, and came up with this https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-57 , i can't do anything to work around this glitch, and it is going to cause problems in my upcoming project... help pls ? XD Oh also i've tested viewer... it works, didn't notice any bugs
[16:42] xstorm Radek: if i had my way there be obly one viewer for second life lol
[16:42] Falcon Linden: fadeout: yeah, I think I found something related to the problem and "fixed" it
[16:42] Falcon Linden: try it again tomorrow
[16:42] FadeOut Razorfen: sweeeet
[16:42] FadeOut Razorfen: love u
[16:43] Techwolf Lupindo: Remember, it took us about a week to code up a custom viwer so a major shop owner can log in due to corrupte inventorty. Shop owner was very happy. LL support took another month to fix it.
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: too far
[16:43] Falcon Linden: that said, last I used this code we could a crash very rarely that made no sense
[16:43] Falcon Linden: so....
[16:43] Falcon Linden: techwolf: I was just joking. Honestly, TPV integration is outside my jurisdiction
[16:43] xstorm Radek: falcon may i try to crash it ?
[16:43] Techwolf Lupindo chuckles
[16:43] Falcon Linden: xstorm: no.
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: if it's beta, yes
[16:43] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:43] xstorm Radek: ok
[16:43] Falcon Linden: but if you own a region on agni and want to participate, you can crash your region!
[16:43] Falcon Linden: :)
[16:44] MartinRJ Fayray: count how many you have corrupted with tpv -.-
[16:44] xstorm Radek: aaawww
[16:44] Techwolf Lupindo: Falcon, you know things are bad when jokes are taken somewhat sercially due to how close to the truth it is. :-)
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: Falcon, everyone knows it's ok to crash the beta grid
[16:44] Falcon Linden: seriously, once we're a bit more stable and ready to handle those kinds of issues, we'll let you know
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: :P
[16:44] Falcon Linden: vincent: if it crashes, that's okay. Trying to crash it by just rezzing a hwole lot of junk is not :)
[16:44] xstorm Radek: ;)
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: oh we call that "griefing"
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: two different things
[16:45] Andrew Linden: Yeah, you can crash the beta grid. We've got some code with two or three crash fixes in it (from today) that has yet to be deployed to aditi though.
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: :P
[16:45] TankMaster Finesmith trys to crash it by rezzing a bunch of purdy shuny stuff
[16:45] xstorm Radek: many ways people crash a region not only by over loading physics engines
[16:45] Falcon Linden: xstorm: well, if you want to try some of the other ways, sure. But these regions are running debug code which is at least 10x slower than normal
[16:46] Techwolf Lupindo: Yea, crash a regine by holding a popular office hour. :-)
[16:46] Falcon Linden: so they'll be susceptable to slowdown-based crashes
[16:46] Kallista Destiny: Martin, as far as we can tell 0.
[16:46] xstorm Radek: oh ouch
[16:46] Techwolf Lupindo: Get about 60-70 agents...it will crash sometime. llol
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: 70 on homestead would do it
[16:46] Kallista Destiny: that is very case of inventory cooruption has in the end been du to errors on the Asset servers.
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: but not normal sim
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: it'll be slow but hardly crash
[16:47] Falcon Linden: in any case
[16:47] Falcon Linden: anyone have questions/comments on the pathfinding stuff?
[16:47] xstorm Radek: so some of the thing i know will freez or crash them i bet ok when its perfect on aditi i will give it a test
[16:47] Falcon Linden: anyone build anything cool?
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: any progress on collision event?
[16:47] Johan Laurasia: I downloaded the path viewer
[16:47] Falcon Linden: vincent: done
[16:47] Johan Laurasia: crashed after a few minutes
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: ahh what about the filter stuff I bugged you about?
[16:48] Falcon Linden: johan: did you submit a report, etc?
[16:48] Falcon Linden: vincent: out of scope for pathfinding, but a good idea for maintainence
[16:48] Johan Laurasia: No, I didn't have the time, but I'll go back and see if I can recreate it, and if I can, I'll file.
[16:48] Vincent Nacon: aye
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: it may not be part of pathfinding but we're gonna need it if we're gonna define our AI bots
[16:49] Falcon Linden: why?
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: why not?
[16:49] Falcon Linden: ...
[16:49] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: we only have one string filter
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: we need more than that
[16:50] MartinRJ Fayray: Andrew: This one has been closed this week, although it's marked as 'working on it' due to no update within 12 months: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8761? - are there any news?
[16:50] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-8761] Cannot delete object description.
[16:50] Falcon Linden: vincent: for now, there are other ways to identify objects
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: oh I know but it would be nice to narrow down collision hog
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: performance wise
[16:51] Falcon Linden: I agree. Even nicer would be a way of filtering other than strings
[16:51] Johan Laurasia: slice me off a chunk of that collision hog
[16:52] Vincent Nacon: ah what else?
[16:52] Andrew Linden: Huh MartinRJ, that sounds like a viewer bug, but then it shouldn't have been hard to fix.
[16:52] Falcon Linden: like llSetCollisionGroup(integer) and then being able to filter on some number or set of numbers
[16:52] Andrew Linden: I might be able to verify that it is viewer or not (in my copius spare time).
[16:52] Andrew Linden: I'll make a note and see if I get a moment to look at it.
[16:52] MartinRJ Fayray: please, yes
[16:52] Vincent Nacon: oh yeah... is line of sight based on Raycast?
[16:52] Draconis Neurocam: i imagine it wouldn't be entirely hard to at least give collisions the same filters sensor has, which in themselves are limiting, but still better
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: in pathfinding's purse and evade mode
[16:53] Falcon Linden: it's a two-step check
[16:54] Chieron Tenk: the description bug probably is a side effect of removing (no Description) with the viewer not being notified of that change ;)
[16:54] Falcon Linden: if looks for either a direct path along the navmesh or a raycast from the top-center of your AABB to the top-center of the target's
[16:54] Falcon Linden: but we could change that in the future to be more accurate
[16:54] Vincent Nacon: hmm cause I was wondering if we could control their line of sight
[16:55] Falcon Linden: in what way?
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: distance and angle range
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: and facing
[16:55] Falcon Linden: that doesn't make sense
[16:55] Falcon Linden: it doesn't /look/ for the target
[16:55] Andrew Linden: The sensor runs at some fixed rate that is controlled by our code, whereas the collision event frequency is less deterministic, and the events can occur at a much faster rate.
[16:55] Falcon Linden: really it knows exactly where the target is
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: err...hang on
[16:55] Falcon Linden: it's just that it ignores that information if it doesn't have line of sight to that position
[16:56] Andrew Linden: We wouldn't want to put anything too expensive in the per-collision handlers.
[16:56] Rex Cronon: if 2 nav meshes share the same place but r slightly different, will there be problems with bots bumping into eachother?
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: ok I'm talking about REQUIRE_LINE_OF_SIGHT in Pursue and Evade mode
[16:56] Falcon Linden: andrew: we could filter on the C++ side during the LSL event execution and count the time against the script
[16:56] Falcon Linden: vincent: yes, I know
[16:56] xstorm Radek: less is more at times is it not ?
[16:57] Falcon Linden: rex: you only have one nav mesh per region
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: ok maybe I'm confused how it use its sight
[16:57] Falcon Linden: vincent: internally, our code knows where everything is all the time
[16:57] Rex Cronon: i understood u can stackup navmeshes in same region
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: that I understand
[16:57] Falcon Linden: if you enable that flag, we simply don't use that information unless there is either:
[16:57] Falcon Linden: (a) a direct path along the navmesh between the pursuer and target OR
[16:58] Andrew Linden: actually that is a good point Vincent, we already throttle the true collision events that arrive at the LSL script's event handler.
[16:58] Falcon Linden: (b) an unobstructed line from the top center of the pursuer to the top cneter of the target
[16:58] Falcon Linden: does that make sense?
[16:58] Falcon Linden: we don't actually simulate the process of searching for the target. We just check whether a search could have succeeded
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: so... we may need to override that somehow
[16:59] Falcon Linden: Rex: you can have multiple surfaces that are pathfinding enabled, but they're all part of one mesh that is self consistent
[16:59] Falcon Linden: vincent: override what?
[16:59] Rex Cronon: ok
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: or just stick with RayCast and Navigate
[16:59] xstorm Radek: hhhhmmmmm sounds like some one can use that to exsploit a region
[17:00] MartinRJ Fayray: My last agenda item was: We noticed that physics behave irrational when you have 4 physical cubes on top of each other. They don't stop wobbling back and forth once they have an initial motion, I really expect them to stop. I can't play jenga this way :) sadly. Wich worked before.
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: I'm trying to break down into parts in AI form to know when and what to look for
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:00] Falcon Linden: martinrj: where did you see that?
[17:00] MartinRJ Fayray: "Place four 1x1x1m sized default prims on top of each other and make them physical. Give them a slight kick. They will keep wobbling/swinging back and forth forever!"
[17:00] Johan Laurasia: jenga lol
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: or for short, assume I'm trying to make a Police officer hunting down a player in dense city
[17:00] MartinRJ Fayray: you can test that yourself
[17:01] Falcon Linden: on agni or on aditi?
[17:01] MartinRJ Fayray: agni
[17:01] Andrew Linden: What region?
[17:01] MartinRJ Fayray: today, any region, the main server
[17:01] Flip Idlemind: On top of eachother as in stacked? Or as in violating Pauli Exclusion?
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: oh yeah, they do keep rocking back and forth
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: even my barrel does that here
[17:01] Falcon Linden: vincent: okay, and what's wrong with our llPursue? You don't really want them to really search
[17:01] Falcon Linden: what you want is to write some LSL that decides, already knowing where the target is, whether it's fair to go after them or not
[17:01] Johan Laurasia: llKindaLookFor()
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: err hmm
[17:02] xstorm Radek: hhhhhmmmmm on that note im off laters all
[17:02] Falcon Linden: and, if not, basically wanders around
[17:02] Chieron Tenk: we were playing Jenga and sometimes the bouncing didnt stop, but got worse, a tower of a few prims can wobble back and forth for quite some time
[17:02] MartinRJ Fayray: yeah too much lag here.
[17:02] Kallista Destiny: sounds like there is no friction. or insufficient friction.
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: or not...
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: it was doing that here last meeting
[17:02] Chieron Tenk: base friction. however, the objects do not actually slide close to each other
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: here we go
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: it's rocking now
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: yup
[17:03] MartinRJ Fayray: i believe that's not possible to test that here
[17:03] MartinRJ Fayray: too much lag
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: it's still moving
[17:03] Chieron Tenk: see the larger tower?
[17:03] MartinRJ Fayray: we tested it on mainland
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: oy...
[17:03] MartinRJ Fayray: and on private estates
[17:03] Flip Idlemind: Oooh it's like perpetual motion
[17:03] Chieron Tenk: it was rocking like that for 15minutes at least
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: yup
[17:03] Kallista Destiny: no friction
[17:03] Falcon Linden: Andrew: $50 says that if we make a change to fix that, it'll break content
[17:03] FadeOut Razorfen: oh, about [16:47] Falcon Linden: anyone build anything cool? --- i'm scripting BVH parser for second life prim animation c: (sorry was late on that, crashed)
[17:03] Falcon Linden: they stopped.
[17:04] Kallista Destiny: I won't take that bet.
[17:04] Falcon Linden: Fadeout: I meant with pathfinding, but cool! :)
[17:04] Falcon Linden: actually
[17:04] FadeOut Razorfen: okays XD
[17:04] Falcon Linden: ONLY cool if your prims are physics type NONE
[17:04] Vincent Nacon: still rocking
[17:04] Falcon Linden: otherwise, I'll hunt you down.
[17:04] FadeOut Razorfen: :o
[17:04] FadeOut Razorfen: okay :D
[17:04] Falcon Linden: :)
[17:04] Falcon Linden: all right, gotta run
[17:04] Vincent Nacon: take care
[17:04] Falcon Linden: thanks folks!
[17:04] Rex Cronon: tc
[17:05] Squirrel Wood: Run, Falcon, Run!
[17:05] TankMaster Finesmith: have a great weekend, falcon
[17:05] Kallista Destiny: I see it as finaly damped out
[17:05] Moundsa Mayo: Andrew, Falcon, thanks for your time!
[17:05] TankMaster Finesmith: have a great weekend, andrew
[17:05] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
[17:06] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
[17:06] Rex Cronon: have a nice day all. bye
[17:06] FadeOut Razorfen sets physics from convex to none XD
[17:06] Kallista Destiny: Dasvidanya
[17:06] MartinRJ Fayray: tested in 12.03.20.251556 AND Second Life RC BlueSteel 12.03.20.251556
[17:06] Moundsa Mayo: This construction used to keep moving farther and farther until it tore itself apart.
[17:06] Andrew Linden: hrm... ok yeah, it looks like the 4-stack of 1^3 boxes doesn't settle
[17:06] MartinRJ Fayray: it was rocking like this 15+ minutes
[17:06] Andrew Linden: that might be hard to fix, as Falcon mentioned
[17:06] MartinRJ Fayray: I mean main server and RC
[17:06] MartinRJ Fayray: xD
[17:06] Andrew Linden: but only if we care about not breaking lots of other stuff ;-)
[17:06] MartinRJ Fayray: Second Life Server 12.02.24.249991
[17:06] Andrew Linden: We'll think about it.
[17:07] Andrew Linden: thanks for coming everyone
[17:07] Keli Kyrie: Thank you Andrew
[17:07] MartinRJ Fayray: Goodbye
[17:07] Nalates Urriah: thx
[17:07] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Enjoy your weekend, Andrew.
[17:07] Chieron Tenk: thx, tc andrew
[17:07] Vincent Nacon: we all have to keep in mind that Havok is a physical "GAME" engine, not some science research for atomic level
[17:08] MartinRJ Fayray: *nods*
[17:08] Vincent Nacon: so we may have to tweak physic a bit with script
[17:08] MartinRJ Fayray: but it brakes my slinshot game
[17:08] MartinRJ Fayray: and the very simplest jenga game
[17:08] MartinRJ Fayray: slingshot*
[17:08] MartinRJ Fayray: lag lag
[17:08] Vincent Nacon: break Jenga or add more challenge?
[17:09] Vincent Nacon: :P
[17:09] Chieron Tenk: and probably some older stuff that actually expected the older physics behavior
[17:09] MartinRJ Fayray: so we can create our own jenga-physics
[17:09] MartinRJ Fayray: cool :]
[17:09] Vincent Nacon: take care all
[17:10] MartinRJ Fayray: take care Vincent
[17:10] Moundsa Mayo: There it went - lost a link
[17:10] Squirrel Wood: http://outerra.blogspot.com/ ^^
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