Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.09.21

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Cherry Hotaling Davido Chrome
hedeoliver Resident Jane1 Bookmite Lares Carter
MartinRJ Fayray Motor Loon Nalates Urriah
NeoBokrug Elytis Qie Niangao Rex Cronon
Simon Linden TankMaster Finesmith Theresa Tennyson
Toysoldier Thor Whirly Fizzle WhiteRabbit0

Transcript

[16:01] Lares Carter: Hey Andrew

[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: WB Andrew

[16:01] Andrew Linden: Hellow.

[16:01] Rex Cronon: hi andrew

[16:01] Andrew Linden: Hello, I mean.

[16:01] Davido Chrome: Motor, I can write a HUD that pops up, and says off-my-ass-and-get-some-work-done if it doesn't notice a prim being rezzed every two minutes.

[16:02] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................

[16:02] Rex Cronon: afk 4 a few minutes

[16:02] hedeoliver: hi nal

[16:02] Motor Loon: tempting

[16:03] Davido Chrome: Hello andrew

[16:03] Motor Loon: ok then... guess... welcome to usergroup everybody... I'll take over today since Andrew is AFK, and we have a few minutes before the strippers arrive....

[16:03] hedeoliver: devo sair?

[16:03] hedeoliver Resident: should I leave?

[16:03] Davido Chrome: No, it's open for all.

[16:03] Motor Loon: please stay

[16:04] Motor Loon: we like girls here

[16:04] hedeoliver: ok

[16:04] hedeoliver Resident: "okay",[["adverb","okay","OK","okey","okeydokey"]]

[16:04] Andrew Linden: Go ahead Motor.

[16:04] hedeoliver: tk

[16:04] Motor Loon: Yeah, so 1st point on our agenda.... whining.... anyone?

[16:04] Davido Chrome: Where are those strippers?

[16:04] Andrew Linden: You misspelled that, right? You meant: "winning"?

[16:04] Motor Loon: right

[16:04] Toysoldier Thor: i will wait till other issues are discussed

[16:05] Simon Linden: Hi everyone

[16:05] Motor Loon: Simonie is our stripper today... notice the sexy fur look

[16:05] Nalates Urriah: winning... no wan't Charlie

[16:05] Toysoldier Thor: hello simon

[16:05] Davido Chrome: Hello Simon

[16:05] hedeoliver: hi

[16:05] Andrew Linden: Ok news...

[16:05] Simon Linden: uh, I've already stripped, but I left my hat on

[16:05] Motor Loon: "You can leave your hat on"...

[16:05] Davido Chrome: Ypur a Rat thingie!

[16:06] Davido Chrome: You're*

[16:06] Simon Linden: A hamster

[16:06] Toysoldier Thor: is the tree coming?

[16:06] Andrew Linden: I'm still working on the interestlist. I've got some test regions up on aditi

[16:06] Andrew Linden: however there are some known problems with them

[16:06] Motor Loon: Baker is not a tree anymore... now he's a girl

[16:06] Toysoldier Thor: and the cheese stick

[16:06] Jane1 Bookmite: Hi Simon, I think

[16:06] Andrew Linden: which I've fixed but not deployed yet

[16:07] Andrew Linden: I haven't yet tested the pile of dynamic objects on them

[16:07] Motor Loon: what kind of problems Andrew?

[16:07] Andrew Linden: but will do so next week.

[16:07] Motor Loon: you know we looove details here

[16:07] Andrew Linden: The main problem is when you fly vertically (no horizontal motion)

[16:07] Theresa Tennyson: Invisible Mah Jongg tiles sometimes. Not too bad though.

[16:08] Andrew Linden: if you go straight up beyond your draw distance, then move sideways a bit, then fly back down...

[16:08] Andrew Linden: the content below you will not show up

[16:08] Andrew Linden: the interestlist doesn't know to send it

[16:08] hedeoliver: martin br?

[16:08] Andrew Linden: anyway, that problem is known

[16:08] Davido Chrome: What about things behind you?

[16:09] Motor Loon: those arent meant to rez davido

[16:09] Motor Loon: kinda the whole point

[16:09] Andrew Linden: The things behind you probably won't show up either...

[16:09] Andrew Linden: anything below you will neglect to re-appear... except for maybe other avatars.

[16:09] Andrew Linden: and the terrain

[16:09] Davido Chrome: Andrew, I sent you a notecard, did you get it?

[16:09] Nalates Urriah: Prolly makes for better FPS...

[16:09] Motor Loon: and objects getting updates Im guessing

[16:09] Andrew Linden looks...

[16:10] Andrew Linden: Yes I got it Davido. Thanks for the clues.

[16:10] Theresa Tennyson: I did some experimenting on Aditi-Ahern and if you turn quickly when you first arrive you freeze for a second or two.

[16:10] Andrew Linden: I'll test them out.

[16:10] Davido Chrome: NP

[16:11] hedeoliver: Martin br?

[16:11] Andrew Linden: Go ahead Simon.

[16:11] Jane1 Bookmite: hi somon Hows You ?

[16:11] Simon Linden: Let's see ... did you cover the updates for next week?

[16:11] Jane1 Bookmite: oops, sorry

[16:11] Andrew Linden: No Simon, not yet.

[16:12] Simon Linden: ok - there won't be restarts on Tuesday since there's nothing in the RC channels

[16:12] TankMaster Finesmith: for testing?I thought the new group loading code was up g

[16:12] Simon Linden: We had planned on an update this week but found a show-stopping problem and didn't go ahead, so there's no new code in the RC channels

[16:12] TankMaster Finesmith: I thought the new group loading code was up for testing*

[16:13] Motor Loon: bugs wasnt in Bakers code though

[16:13] Motor Loon: for what its worth

[16:13] Simon Linden: We'll put two updates out on Wednesday -- one is maintenance work and bug fixes, with Baker's large group code

[16:13] Rex Cronon: back

[16:13] Simon Linden: The other has some under-the-hood improvements that will help regions run better on new hardware

[16:13] TankMaster Finesmith: ah nice

[16:14] Motor Loon: oo yeah... that dont sound like a little detail thing

[16:14] TankMaster Finesmith: when are you guys getting new 486s?

[16:14] Simon Linden: Nothing dramatic ... it's more of a "run OK" as compared to currently "run Bad"

[16:14] Motor Loon: ah

[16:14] Motor Loon: so next month... we'll get "run awesome"

[16:14] TankMaster Finesmith: lol

[16:14] Motor Loon: looking forward to that

[16:14] WhiteRabbit0: one can only hope!

[16:15] Motor Loon has only high hopes

[16:15] Simon Linden: That's about it ... I've been working on some server internals that should help prevent them from getting into that zombie state when they are overloaded

[16:16] Toysoldier Thor: So a Question of "WHY" regarding extreme lag on busy sims.... Last Sunday I was at an art show. 58 avatars on the sim.

I arrived and was at the event for over an hour. I have a powerful new Alienware laptop and a 50mbps Internet link and a wireless with proven throughput of 130mbps (use latest Firestorm). I know the sim was laggy because of the avatar count but it took over 40 minutes for everything to MOSTLY rez. this was not just lagging of the rezzing... it basically stalled for me for 15 minutes and trickled the rest of the time. Talked to a couple others where it didnt take more than 5 10 minutes to rez. Technically - WHY?

[16:17] Motor Loon: did you check for lost packets?

[16:17] Rex Cronon: u loose packets on 50mb pipe?

[16:17] Motor Loon: sure

[16:17] Jane1 Bookmite: Perhaps if folks too off hair, shoes and jewels

[16:17] Jane1 Bookmite: took*

[16:17] Motor Loon: I'm on a 50/50 fiberoptic line myself, packetloss happens

[16:17] Toysoldier Thor: while the rez lag stalled I was having no probs listening to the audio stream from the sim

[16:17] Simon Linden: That takes a really big, long answer to cover that, Toysoldier

[16:17] Davido Chrome: CAn Ping play a factor?

[16:17] Toysoldier Thor: its not packet loss

[16:18] Jane1 Bookmite: Sure does

[16:18] Andrew Linden: I don't know offhand Toysoldier, but I'll be interested to get some load testing done on the interestlist work I've been toiling over.

[16:18] Andrew Linden: I'm hoping to address some of the per-avatar lag

[16:18] Toysoldier Thor: its as if the sim put me on hold for rezzing

[16:18] Simon Linden: Even with that much bandwidth, you're not going to get near that from SL. It has some limits on our end so one person doesn't take a disproportiionate amount of bw.

[16:18] Motor Loon: espicially wireless can have packetloss infact... despite your 130mbps

[16:18] Andrew Linden: but don't yet know how much of an impact I've made.

[16:18] Rex Cronon: maybe your ave was the last ave on the internal list that each sim has?

[16:19] TankMaster Finesmith: monty is working on improving the HTTP protocol support in the viewer

[16:19] WhiteRabbit0: Alot of lag is caused by bad designers making bad assets that are just prohibitive to load.. but LL can't fix ... bad designers.

[16:19] TankMaster Finesmith: im not sure if the next release of firestorm will include the updates or not, but the one after that will

[16:19] Toysoldier Thor: ok i understand packet loss but that would mean that I would be getting like 80% packetloss and only for rezzing to one service

[16:19] Whirly Fizzle: Well if half the region wont rez (which usually happens after interest list changes ;)) that will be less clientside lag :D

[16:19] hedeoliver: qual o melhor visualisador para SL ?

[16:19] hedeoliver Resident: what better visualizer to SL?

[16:19] Simon Linden: yep, Phoenix - and Andrew's work on teh interest list is all about getting the right data to your viewer faster. There's a lot of different things that can happen

[16:20] Davido Chrome: I have about 160 Ping at the very least, despite one helluva connection. I live in sween, and light can only travel so fast.

[16:20] Toysoldier Thor: packetloss is a global factor not to a specific services

[16:20] Andrew Linden: BTW, we were talking about the KillObject messages being lost (which was causing some "ghost" vehicles at region boundaries) a week or more ago...

[16:20] Andrew Linden: I was talking about that problem and some changes we want to make with the interestlist with some other LL devs

[16:20] Andrew Linden: and we concluded that we definitely want to make those KillObject messages "reliable" rather than unreliable

[16:21] Andrew Linden: so that will be one of the things I'll be working on next

[16:21] Motor Loon: yeah those I get oftens

[16:21] Andrew Linden: once my current changes are passing QA

[16:21] Motor Loon: the ghost vehicles

[16:21] TankMaster Finesmith: so your going to move it to http? :D

[16:21] Motor Loon: I'd be real happy if that problem found a solution for sure

[16:22] Toysoldier Thor: what was strange is that 3 days later we had a sim load test party where we had 45 ppl on the sim and got every one to spew particles and do everything to create lag and I expereinced ZERO lag

[16:22] Andrew Linden: No, our UDP protocol can detect lost packets and can resend

[16:22] Toysoldier Thor: same laptop / link etc.

[16:22] Andrew Linden: so I'll probably just transition those messages over to that.

[16:22] TankMaster Finesmith: why? (cust currious) when http naticly supports tht?

[16:22] TankMaster Finesmith: natively*

[16:22] Simon Linden: Particles cause minimal server lag - they require an update message and probably a small texture download. However, they are a bunch of new crud for your viewer to draw, so yoru viewer fps will drop

[16:23] Toysoldier Thor: it seems the sim decides which viewers it will inter-communicate with and others it will ignore

[16:23] Rex Cronon: toysoldier did u try to do trace to see if any nodes along the way were extra slow?

[16:23] Toysoldier Thor: i can next time

[16:23] Andrew Linden: because it would mean less changes to the code, and would be compatible with legacy viewers that do not speak HTTP-KillObject lingo

[16:23] Motor Loon: Probably 100 ways it can go wrong, even if you connection to your ISP is perfect

[16:24] TankMaster Finesmith: ah, ok

[16:24] Motor Loon: "Death to all legacy viewers"

[16:24] TankMaster Finesmith: take it can do both for a while? :P

[16:24] Theresa Tennyson: Just don't send the messages 150 times a second plz.

[16:24] TankMaster Finesmith would like to see more things take advantage of http

[16:25] Motor Loon: Is the things where UDP is better than a HTTP solution?

[16:25] Motor Loon: "Is there things..."

[16:25] Davido Chrome: As a protocol, is it fast enough for games?

[16:25] TankMaster Finesmith: things like agent updates are better in udp

[16:25] Motor Loon: so why would object updates be the same?

[16:25] TankMaster Finesmith: if a packet gets droped, it doesn't metter to resnd it, itll be out of date

[16:26] NeoBokrug Elytis: HTTP is probably best for Asset data.

[16:26] Motor Loon: wouldn't

[16:26] Motor Loon: ah yes, good point Tank

[16:26] Simon Linden: UDP is good for time-sensitive updates that you don't care too much about - you know another will come along soon

[16:26] Andrew Linden: Updates for *moving* objects are one of the few cases that make sense for "unreliable" UDP

[16:26] hedeoliver: para que serve esse tesouro ?

[16:26] hedeoliver Resident: how is this treasure?

[16:26] Motor Loon: thats where the viewer interpolation comes in then

[16:27] TankMaster Finesmith: the problem with sending the die as udp is if the packet gets droped, the viewer doesn't know to kill the object, and unless theres some built in resend, there are no future updates..

[16:27] Andrew Linden: however, UDP is a simple protocol and it is possible to build a reliable protocol on top of it...

[16:27] TankMaster Finesmith: yes, http does hae more overhead to it

[16:27] Andrew Linden: unfortunately very early on we did not make most of our messages use the reliable method

[16:27] TankMaster Finesmith: part of why its more reliable

[16:27] Andrew Linden: which has caused countless headaches over the years

[16:28] Toysoldier Thor: if you are trying to maintain session activity - UDP is not a good idea

[16:28] TankMaster Finesmith: audio and video streaming are also better via udp

[16:28] Theresa Tennyson: When SL was new there was a lot less to keep track of...

[16:28] TankMaster Finesmith: things like textures, asset data, chat messages, things that once they are sent are there for the durration of the session, are better to do via http (in simple terms)

[16:29] Motor Loon hands out Ibuprofen's

[16:29] Andrew Linden: switching to HTTP can be done incorrectly too... as our first (and second?) HTTP texture pipelines proved

[16:29] Toysoldier Thor: why would u build a reliability function over an unreliable protocol? That is what TCP is for

[16:29] Davido Chrome: Ah, is that why script messages won't nescecarily arrive in the order they were sent?

[16:29] Simon Linden: That depends, Phoenix - you also have to stuff all your data into one packet. Ensuring you get a video keyframe via UDP is a pain

[16:29] Toysoldier Thor: cough cough on udp

[16:29] Lares Carter: With all the talk about HTTP and UDP - isn't HTTP application layer and UDP transport layer? So TCP would be on the same layer as UDP and primary used for HTTP? (i was just wondering)

[16:29] Andrew Linden: if you open too many HTTP connections at once... many low-end routers (the kind that are used in private homes) can break

[16:30] NeoBokrug Elytis: Cram more data into the packets. :#

[16:30] Simon Linden: Yes Lares - http is built on top of TCP, I believe

[16:30] Toysoldier Thor: its not HTTP vs UDP .... its TCP vs UDP

[16:30] TankMaster Finesmith: yes, true, many home routers can die with a lot of simutanious connections

[16:30] Toysoldier Thor: thank u

[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[16:30] Simon Linden: brb

[16:31] Toysoldier Thor: but a lot of routers also degrade UDP convos

[16:31] Toysoldier Thor: and you would have to have one shitty router to run out of TCP sessions

[16:31] Motor Loon: Everything is a compromise... just a matter of finding the best one

[16:32] Andrew Linden: We've discovered the hard way... there are a number of such routers that run out of TCP connections.

[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: the issue with TCP is that LL would have to make sure your firewalls support enough TCP sessions

[16:32] Motor Loon: yeah... too many Second Life residents are running very very shitty hardware

[16:32] TankMaster Finesmith: one of the things monty's work is doing is to lower the concurrent connections

[16:32] Andrew Linden: Right.

[16:33] Rex Cronon: i am sorry motor, but my computer has told me to inform that it finds your statement offensive:)

[16:33] WhiteRabbit0: truth is truth.. =p

[16:33] Motor Loon: Thats ok, I'm a rebel... I prefer being offensive

[16:33] Theresa Tennyson: In little green letters on a black screeh?

[16:33] Simon Linden: We also need to do a much better job at sharing connections ... you really don't need that many going, maybe a couple per region

[16:34] Cherry Hotaling smiles warmly

[16:34] NeoBokrug Elytis: How's the work on that going? :)

[16:34] Simon Linden: The last I heard it was going well ... Monty was getting it into the viewer, but I'm not very current

[16:35] NeoBokrug Elytis: Any updates on the http viewer soon?

[16:35] Andrew Linden: I think Phase-1 of Monty's project is nearly complete -- almost in QA?

[16:35] Motor Loon: woohoo Monty for president!

[16:35] TankMaster Finesmith: its to bad LL doesn't send textures over port 80, so ISPs would more likely cache them

[16:35] Andrew Linden: Last I heard it was having some merge problems with all the other work that has been going into the viewer.

[16:35] TankMaster Finesmith: neo, the http code will be merged into v-beta as part of 3.4.2

[16:35] Davido Chrome: Did you ever talk to Falcon about what really happens when you turn off the nav-mesh?

[16:36] Andrew Linden: Monty describes his project as "a step toward correctness, not necessarily better performance".

[16:36] TankMaster Finesmith: yes, someone else made changes to the texture fetch as well, monty isn't havong to much fun dealing with that :P

[16:36] WhiteRabbit0: .. I noticed that as well..

[16:36] WhiteRabbit0: big time.

[16:38] Andrew Linden: Yeah Davido. I believe your SimBall region is having interestlist problems rather than pathfinding problems... however someone had an anecdote about a region where they disabled pathfinding, then re-enabled it and suddenly got terrible performance

[16:38] Andrew Linden: but they weren't able to reproduce it, as I recall

[16:38] NeoBokrug Elytis: Given that the viewer doesn't perform so well as is (because it does so much), any plans to improve performance with the http stuff?

[16:38] TankMaster Finesmith: some

[16:38] Andrew Linden: But, if you disable pathfinding completely it really should bypass some work every frame.

[16:38] TankMaster Finesmith: not much yet, its more a reliability update for the first part

[16:39] Motor Loon: some work != alot of work

[16:39] Andrew Linden: I have yet to actually try to do it myself. Been busy trying to fix the found bugs in my interestlist stuff.

[16:40] Davido Chrome: Ok. So disabling the Nav mesh oesn't really disable pathfinding?

[16:40] Davido Chrome: Completely.

[16:40] Motor Loon: it's the other way around

[16:41] Andrew Linden: Disabling pathfinding will still compute a navmesh, but should avoid some of the overhead for updating paths of characters, as I understand it.

[16:41] Andrew Linden: So for example, if you were to modify the terrain in such a region...

[16:41] TankMaster Finesmith: disabling PF won't really affect performance

[16:41] Andrew Linden: it would compute a new navemesh (which is done in a separate thread in the background)

[16:42] Davido Chrome: Okay, but the command that has been spread around is said to specifically disable the nav mesh?

[16:43] Andrew Linden: I want to actually try it [disable pathfinding] on a region and make sure that it really does bypass some work

[16:43] Andrew Linden: but I haven'

[16:43] Andrew Linden: haven't got to it yet.

[16:43] NeoBokrug Elytis: I want to say, that despite my doubt about region idle, and the few initial issues it had -- I think it's a good improvement.

[16:43] Motor Loon: thats just misunderstanding and rumors Davido

[16:43] Whirly Fizzle: The PF parts in stats floater sit at zero when PF is disabled and region restarted. Something must be turning off

[16:43] Theresa Tennyson: I think the most it would do would be to turn off updates of "movable" objects.

[16:44] Andrew Linden: That doesn't sound correct to me Davido -- the command will disable "pathfinding".

[16:44] Andrew Linden: Characters will cease to work in that region.

[16:44] Davido Chrome: Ok

[16:45] Toysoldier Thor: ask another question as to "why"? Why is local chat set to 19m? Why cant it be set to a more reasonable radius? Other grids use 65 meters.

[16:45] Theresa Tennyson: The problem is unless you've done some cleanup in your region, EVERYTHING defaults to movable.

[16:45] Davido Chrome shouts: Use ctrl-enter.

[16:45] Rex Cronon: would that make shouting radius 256m?

[16:45] TankMaster Finesmith: 96

[16:45] TankMaster Finesmith: iirc

[16:45] WhiteRabbit0: 19 m is a perfectly reasonable range. I don't always want people 96 m away hearing my conversation.

[16:46] Motor Loon: agrees

[16:46] Whirly Fizzle: Oh Davido are you thinking of agent set allow-modify-navmesh true/false? Thats not needed now (to terraform)

[16:46] Andrew Linden: "Other grids use 65m"?

[16:46] TankMaster Finesmith: 65 seems excessive for normal chat...

[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: not 96 but even 30 - a lot of clubs have to be designed with small floor space to force visitors to stay close enough

[16:46] Davido Chrome: Use the shout function?

[16:47] Andrew Linden: I thought the range of a "chat" was the same everywhere.

[16:47] Toysoldier Thor: yeah so 30 ppl at a club are all SHOUTING across the entire sim?

[16:47] TankMaster Finesmith: naw, some grids think bigger values make them better than sl

[16:47] Rex Cronon: on grids that r not owned by sl the chat range could be in theory 256m

[16:47] Davido Chrome: Honestly, feels like the best thing would be to have it user definable.

[16:47] Andrew Linden: Ah, you mean OpenSim grids?

[16:48] Toysoldier Thor: yess

[16:48] TankMaster Finesmith: yes

[16:48] Toysoldier Thor: i would love user defined local chat range

[16:48] Toysoldier Thor: let me decide how far my local chat can be

[16:48] WhiteRabbit0: that would be horrible for privacy.

[16:48] Rex Cronon: for both listening and speaking:)

[16:48] TankMaster Finesmith: I wouldnt, griffers would just max it out

[16:48] Qie Niangao: user == sim owner? and... this is channel 0 only?

[16:48] Davido Chrome: Let teh user set the range of their chat themselves.

[16:48] Cherry Hotaling: actually that would be great for scripts

[16:48] Andrew Linden: Hrm... defined over the region? Or maybe defined by your viewer?

[16:48] Cherry Hotaling: considering theres a region say etc

[16:48] Toysoldier Thor: nooo - Griefers can do that now by shouting everything

[16:49] Motor Loon: so can you

[16:49] Toysoldier Thor: thats not a reason to limit local SAY chat

[16:49] TankMaster Finesmith: there are

[16:49] WhiteRabbit0: Yes but I don't want to be looking at a person 96 m away wondering if they can hear me talking to my friend in local about how stupid they are....

[16:49] TankMaster Finesmith: take classes for example

[16:49] Toysoldier Thor: is that viewer or server set?

[16:49] WhiteRabbit0: =p

[16:49] TankMaster Finesmith: you don't really want the cals chat to be across the region

[16:49] Andrew Linden: Maybe the API should have been something like llSay(channel, "text", range)?

[16:49] TankMaster Finesmith: class*

[16:49] Rex Cronon: yes

[16:50] Simon Linden: What's the problem this will solve?

[16:50] Toysoldier Thor: uhhmmmmmm White.... I would be IMing that

[16:50] Toysoldier Thor: not local chatting that

[16:50] NeoBokrug Elytis: range == 65k

[16:50] NeoBokrug Elytis: A billion regions!

[16:50] Davido Chrome: Noo, I mean the ability to define how far away YOU are heard.. Not to define how far away you hear others...

[16:50] Rex Cronon: only on z-axis

[16:50] Toysoldier Thor: i like the idea of user defined SAY radius

[16:50] Whirly Fizzle: If that happened, I would want the ability to set what range I hear chat from also

[16:50] Whirly Fizzle: Could end up very spammy

[16:51] WhiteRabbit0: .. obviously but... I'm just saying a lot of things use a 20 M local chat radius to compute stuff or isolate what it can / cannot hear... if you changed it to be a region setting a lot of scripts would break.

[16:51] Motor Loon: you want to have the ability to turn up your hearing aid like in RL ?

[16:51] Toysoldier Thor: although a larger standard radius would be nice

[16:51] Andrew Linden: well, there is some overhead in propagating the chat messages to neighboring regions, so there would have to be some limit

[16:51] Andrew Linden: 256 is probably the simple upper bound to nip that problem in the bud

[16:51] Rex Cronon: 256 sounds good:)

[16:51] Motor Loon: I think the current limits are plenty!... hell - I cant hear what someone is saying in RL if they are standing 20meters away

[16:51] Toysoldier Thor: even 30m would be cool

[16:51] Cherry Hotaling: YEs Im talking about for scripts not for chatting

[16:52] Cherry Hotaling: defining a chat range can eliminate sensors in some cases

[16:52] Davido Chrome: Whitrabbit is right though. The CS simboards use whisper for board powers, so they have the range of a whisper.

[16:52] TankMaster Finesmith: with 256, youd get from the center to the closest part pf the side, but not the corners

[16:52] MartinRJ Fayray: you have llRegionSay for scripts, even llRegionSayTo

[16:52] Motor Loon: mabye would make more sense for a userdefined SHOUT range

[16:52] MartinRJ Fayray: or llEmail

[16:52] Motor Loon: "How loud do you want to shout"

[16:52] Rex Cronon: 256m radius

[16:52] Motor Loon: but not talking/local chat

[16:53] Toysoldier Thor: anyway - it was a question.... not a biggy.... just would be nice for larger club floors

[16:53] Davido Chrome: I agree with Motor I think.

[16:53] Qie Niangao: yeah, scripts aren't a big concern here, 10, 20, 100m and region-wide are fine.

[16:53] Simon Linden: if it's script-to-script, llRegionSay() or llRegionSayTo() work well

[16:53] Davido Chrome: Toy, you CAN shout 96 meters..

[16:53] Toysoldier Thor: i know

[16:53] MartinRJ Fayray: I second Whirly. When users can define their own chat range, they need the ability also, to define what they can hear.

[16:53] Andrew Linden: ok, so to make scripted chat systems more capable.

[16:53] MartinRJ Fayray: People in clubs can be veeeery annoying

[16:53] Toysoldier Thor: but when i am at a concert for an hour i dont want to shout all hour

[16:53] NeoBokrug Elytis: Mute! :D

[16:53] Whirly Fizzle: hehe that

[16:54] Andrew Linden: well, of cource it would require some new LSL call... llChat() or something

[16:54] Motor Loon: Making a chat-.repeating is hardly a big deal in LSL

[16:54] Davido Chrome: Toy, ctrl-enter. It's not a complex combination.

[16:54] Toysoldier Thor: lol ok make a viewer change that lets me default to SHOUT

[16:54] Toysoldier Thor: rofl

[16:55] Toysoldier Thor: the bigger question is...... When will LL upgrade the SL graphics on the grid to the levels being attained on CREATORVERSE ??

[16:55] Toysoldier Thor: ;)

[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[16:55] MartinRJ Fayray: on what graphics resolution is that game played?

[16:55] WhiteRabbit0: We're already getting normal maps and specular maps as well as deforming mesh assets.. are you really not happy with that?

[16:55] WhiteRabbit0: =p

[16:55] Toysoldier Thor: 100 pixel

[16:55] Toysoldier Thor: hehe

[16:56] Rex Cronon: i do have good idea of making scripts more capable: make a new function llWriteNotecard(string name, string data) :)

[16:56] Toysoldier Thor: i am being sarcastic

[16:56] TankMaster Finesmith: ll wants to mintain compatibility with as old of hardware as they can, and with so many people using intel gpus, that severely limits what they can do graphics wise

[16:56] Simon Linden: Creatoverse is iPad only, so that's Apples to something else...

[16:56] Motor Loon: Creatorverse should be renamed Trianglecraft

[16:56] Toysoldier Thor: the graphics on creatorverse is for 4 year olds

[16:56] Toysoldier Thor: lol

[16:56] Davido Chrome: He's jesting, creatorverse has very simple graphics. XD

[16:56] WhiteRabbit0: oh... lol

[16:56] MartinRJ Fayray: lol

[16:56] Rex Cronon: those r pyramis

[16:56] Toysoldier Thor: thank u

[16:56] Rex Cronon: pyramids*

[16:57] Simon Linden: You're thinking of Patterns, Motor

[16:57] Motor Loon: oh damn

[16:57] Qie Niangao: 8-bit is retro-chic anyway.

[16:57] Motor Loon: yeah

[16:57] Motor Loon: i am

[16:57] Andrew Linden: Motor, perhaps you meant "Patterns should be called 'TriangleCraft'"?

[16:57] Toysoldier Thor: i was just poking at yo ulindens

[16:57] Toysoldier Thor: lol

[16:57] Motor Loon: "Patterns should be renamed Trianglecraft"

[16:57] Motor Loon: there... fixed

[16:57] Whirly Fizzle: That looks like Minecraft :D

[16:57] MartinRJ Fayray: Patterns is a WoW clone...

[16:57] TankMaster Finesmith: I thought it was a minecraft clone

[16:57] WhiteRabbit0: Btw... while we're off topic ...for the pathfinding.. is there a reason that certain people do not show up on the pathfinding list ?

[16:58] Rex Cronon: depends on viewer they r using?

[16:58] WhiteRabbit0: like.. in the sandbox that I use.. I only see 3-5 creators items listed on the pathfinding list..

[16:58] Davido Chrome: Theit your imaginary friends.

[16:58] Whirly Fizzle: Dont you only see objects you have rights over?

[16:58] Andrew Linden: WhiteRabbit0, what is the "pathfinding list"?

[16:58] WhiteRabbit0: when I know there's at least 5 more.

[16:58] Whirly Fizzle: Unless youre EM on the region

[16:58] Qie Niangao: right... objects you can move, specifically.

[16:58] Whirly Fizzle: Linksts floater

[16:58] Motor Loon: unscripted avatars?

[16:58] WhiteRabbit0: ahhh

[16:58] NeoBokrug Elytis: An idea to bounce in your head -- Raycasts over region boundaries?

[16:58] WhiteRabbit0: ok

[16:59] WhiteRabbit0: that makse sense to me then thanks.

[16:59] WhiteRabbit0: err.. derp user error.

[16:59] Davido Chrome: Neo, Seamless simcrossings first!

[16:59] Theresa Tennyson: What DOESN'T make sense is why some of my neigbors let everyone move their stuff.

[16:59] Motor Loon: mm.... seamless... tasty...

[16:59] Andrew Linden: oh yeah, Whirly and Qie are right.

[16:59] Toysoldier Thor shouts: where is cheesey tonight?

[16:59] TankMaster Finesmith: cus they can?

[16:59] MartinRJ Fayray: the objects seem to be visible for anyone

[17:00] Toysoldier Thor shouts: I wanted to know if the VLMs have received a development priority yet?

[17:00] Andrew Linden: Not yet Toysoldier, that I know of.

[17:00] MartinRJ Fayray: (linksets)

[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[17:00] TankMaster Finesmith: woot, weekend time

[17:01] Motor Loon: woohoo nice meeting... despite lack of strippers...

[17:01] Toysoldier Thor: i agree

[17:01] Toysoldier Thor: we need more strippers

[17:01] Toysoldier Thor: and Cow Bells

[17:01] Davido Chrome: Some friends got griefed because they had set a lot of objects to "Anyone can move". They tried turning off scripts, didn't work off course, as all the grifer was doing was mannualloy moving their objects...

[17:01] Theresa Tennyson: Hey! I'm off duty.

[17:01] MartinRJ Fayray: they have to turn off physics

[17:01] Motor Loon slips Therese a few dollar bills

[17:02] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.

[17:02] Toysoldier Thor: lol

[17:02] MartinRJ Fayray: Goodbye Lindens!

[17:02] Qie Niangao: Thanks Andrew, Simon.

[17:02] Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting :)



Simulator_User_Group

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