Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.03.12

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Baker Linden Chieron Tenk
Duckie Dickins Inara Pey Hexapoda
Jonathan Yap Kallista Destiny Lexbot Sinister
Liisa Runo Lucia Nightfire MartinRJ Fayray
Motor Loon Nalates Urriah Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon Simon Linden TankMaster Finesmith
Whirly Fizzle Yuzuru Jewell

Transcript

[12:05] Simon Linden: I'm not sure if Andrew will be here today, but I can start with release news

[12:05] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group

[12:05] Simon Linden: This morning we updated our main server channel with one of the RCs

[12:05] Nalates Urriah: Do the SL servers do a Daylight Savings change?

[12:05] Hexapoda: Sim crossing was smooth today.

[12:06] Simon Linden: This was the one with some threading work for object rezzing, so that should reduce the lag event everyone feels when someone rezzes a complex object

[12:06] Baker Linden: aww yeah

[12:06] Simon Linden: I haven't heard any screaming or crying yet, so I'm optimistic this will stick

[12:07] Simon Linden: Tomorrow we'll be updating the RC channels, and I have to look at the forum post to remember what's going out there

[12:07] Simon Linden: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-03-11/td-p/1927735

[12:07] Simon Linden: Looks like we have two different maintenance releases going out

[12:09] Simon Linden: The one on Magnum is the same as before with the main code merged in, plus I believe a fix for one small problem we had in it wiht online/offline statuses

[12:09] Nalates Urriah: Is that the status thing affecting chat?

[12:10] Simon Linden: I think it was direct IMs, not local chat

[12:10] Whirly Fizzle: IM's yes

[12:10] Nalates Urriah: thx

[12:11] Simon Linden: That's it for my news ... Andrew, Kelly or Baker, do you guys have anything?

[12:11] Simon Linden: I guess not ... so the floor's open for topics or questions

[12:11] Andrew Linden: I have a little bit actually...j

[12:11] Simon Linden: ok

[12:12] Andrew Linden: I've got a new interesetlist project that just finished QA, and might be in RC next week

[12:13] Andrew Linden: it is currently up on only three regions on aditi, if anyone wants to test it

[12:13] Nalates Urriah: Sure...

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Maestro will probably mention it on Thursday

[12:13] Motor Loon: ooh interest(ing)list, whats new in it?

[12:13] Andrew Linden: but since it is my one bit of news I figured I would mention it here as well

[12:13] Baker Linden: Now that threaded object rez is live, I'm working on fixing an issue where objects can go outside of a region's boundary and become unable to auto-return, forcing someone to fly around and delete them by hand.

[12:13] Andrew Linden: so the one main change in that project is improved scene loading

[12:14] Andrew Linden: either with full or empty cache

[12:14] Nalates Urriah: What will be different in how a scene renders?

[12:14] Andrew Linden: The one region on the beta grid that you have access to is... Solariam

[12:15] Andrew Linden: which has about 10k objects on it in the beta grid, and about 9.8k on the main grid

[12:15] Andrew Linden: btw, Solariam is, purely by coincidence, an adult region

[12:16] Andrew Linden: I haven't actually tested there yet, so dunno what it looks like, but thought I should mention it

[12:16] Rex Cronon: so, if wer not registered as "adults" we can't get in there?

[12:16] Motor Loon: damn, mom wont let me play in adult regions...

[12:16] Andrew Linden: hrm... that may be true Rex.

[12:16] Andrew Linden: I'll see if I can get another region up for testing that has lots of objects in it.

[12:17] Andrew Linden: If anyone is interested in testing there then I can send you an IM once I get it set up.

[12:17] Nalates Urriah: On the AGNI side for sure. But does ADITI have Adult/PG restrictions?

[12:17] Andrew Linden: I'd like to have two identical regions for comparisons.

[12:18] Simon Linden: Nal - yes, it's the same logic in both places

[12:18] Andrew Linden: Tell you what... I'll try to make sure to have two regions with identical content for testing by Thursday for anyone interested.

[12:18] Andrew Linden: And I'll have Maestro announce it if I'm not at the Thursday user group.

[12:19] Rex Cronon: just turn off auto-return at public sandbox for a day and u might get yourself a full sim:)

[12:19] MartinRJ Fayray: you can mess up homestead sims with threaded object rezzing when you rezz huge sets of coalesced items and then return all objects with the estate tools while physics fps is at 0

[12:19] Andrew Linden: anyway, the cool thing is this: if you login to a region with a clear cache the objects near you will show up much faster

[12:19] MartinRJ Fayray: I've been told but I didn't dare to test that in my home.

[12:19] Inara Pey: Andrew, any thoughts on Maestro's comment on interest list and vehicle region crossing issues - http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-03-04-Updated-2013-03-05-11-30PST/m-p/1920491/highlight/true#M9625

[12:19] Andrew Linden: btw, that reminds me...

[12:19] Andrew Linden: I wanted to take a quick survey

[12:19] Baker Linden: Martin, what happens?

[12:20] Andrew Linden: I'm curious to know what your internet bandwidth limits are

[12:20] Andrew Linden: and also what you set as your bandwidth in the SL preferences

[12:20] MartinRJ Fayray: someone who tested it told me that the sim randomly returns objects and other strange things can happen

[12:20] Nalates Urriah: 30mb/sec down and 10mb/sec up

[12:20] Baker Linden: hmm

[12:20] Andrew Linden: Go ahead and just list them. I'm curious to know what sorts of ranges we have here.

[12:21] Yuzuru Jewell: On the viewer? or Home Router?

[12:21] Kallista Destiny: Tht is about whatI get... Speedtest.net

[12:21] Andrew Linden: I'm mostly interested in what your settings are for the viewer.

[12:21] Kallista Destiny: 1500

[12:21] Inara Pey: 1500

[12:21] Jonathan Yap: I had 6mb down and 768 up and set my viewer to 2mb

[12:21] Andrew Linden: That is, in Preferences --> Setup --> Maximum bandwidth

[12:21] Jonathan Yap: sorry 2,000

[12:21] Nalates Urriah: Bandwidth usually 1,00kb to 1,500kb. There is some UDP problem once over 1,900kb

[12:21] Chieron Tenk: 1900

[12:21] MartinRJ Fayray: 10000 kbps

[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: 1500

[12:22] Nalates Urriah: 1,000kb^

[12:22] TankMaster Finesmith: ISP: 20mb down/5mb up; viewer: 1500

[12:22] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks.

[12:22] Whirly Fizzle: 1500

[12:22] Lexbot Sinister: 10/10 mb/s for the internet, 500 kbps for SL. My graphics card doesn't like more incomming, unfortunately

[12:22] Kallista Destiny: We - the firestorm support team- have some guidelines 500 for Wifi, 1000 for DSL 1500 for hardwaired

[12:22] Rex Cronon: max bandw: 500kbps

[12:22] Duckie Dickins: I have my net speed set to 3000kbs.....isp is 18mb down/1.5mb upload

[12:22] Kallista Destiny: however some people have problems above 300

[12:22] TankMaster Finesmith: just a note, FS's max bandwidth is 3k

[12:22] Yuzuru Jewell: Max BandWidth.

[12:22] Andrew Linden: If you set your bandwidth artificially low... say 300 kbps or so, you can see the content in the world loading very slow

[12:23] Rex Cronon: and about 1mb up/down

[12:23] Andrew Linden: it takes a long time for the content to show up

[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: simulator is still caped a 3k, right?

[12:23] Lexbot Sinister: it depends on the content ;)

[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm is that still the case when HTTP textures are enabled?

[12:23] Andrew Linden: btw, the bandwidth settings in the prefrences apply to the UDP traffic, not the HTTP stuff (such as texture downloads for those viewers that use it)

[12:24] Andrew Linden: so the objects will show up slower when you constrict the UDP bandwidth

[12:24] Andrew Linden: and the viewer doesn't try to load the textures until it knows what to get

[12:24] Lexbot Sinister: imo, content in itself doesn't take long to rez for me, but high-poly mesh is... yuck. High-rez textures (1024) always come last

[12:24] Motor Loon: I finally got around to order a better router, going to be interesting to see if it makes any difference (current one can only handle around 200 connecitons, new one atleast 8000)

[12:24] TankMaster Finesmith: montey will be moving more services over to http this year

[12:24] Andrew Linden: so the textures will also continue to download as the objects show up

[12:25] Andrew Linden: well, the interesting test for my new project, I've found, is to artificially lower the UDP bandwdith down to about 300kbps, and then login to a region with a lot of objects in view

[12:26] Andrew Linden: when I do that on the old and new simulators I can really see the difference

[12:26] Kallista Destiny: The problme with http (until keep alive becomes active) is that routers end up with a bunch of CLOSE_WAIT

[12:26] Andrew Linden: some of you might be interested, so I figured I would mention it

[12:26] Andrew Linden: ok that's all the news I've got.

[12:26] TankMaster Finesmith: montey is adding keepalive now

[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: re interest list changes. We have been getting reports in Firestorm support that the "Clear visible cache" rockets no longer work and also that the dd 0 trick no longer works. For example, if you see a petite avatar looking deformed to you client side, changing dd to zero and back up or hopping on a visible cache clear rocket would make the deformed avatar appear correctly. I havnt seen an avatar in that state to be able to test it but has anyone else noticed this?

[12:26] Lexbot Sinister: low-end computer people might have as low as 300 i suppose...

[12:27] Andrew Linden: where dd = draw distance, I take it

[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: Yes

[12:27] Simon Linden: I probably get close to 300 when I'm fighting my kids for bandwidth :P

[12:27] Andrew Linden: what are "clear visible cache" rockets?

[12:27] TankMaster Finesmith: lex, some really low end routers only support 28 connections

[12:27] Simon Linden: They take you far up and back so you get a full update

[12:27] TankMaster Finesmith: 128*

[12:27] Kallista Destiny: a tool that zooms you up to 800M or so, then back

[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: You sit on them and they shoot you up very fast to high altitude and back down

[12:27] Andrew Linden: oh I see... hrm...

[12:28] Andrew Linden: Whirly, how fast do they move? How long does it take to go up and back down?

[12:28] Whirly Fizzle: Passed one

[12:28] MartinRJ Fayray: most issues that I thought were interestlist issues turned out to be viewer bugs

[12:28] Duckie Dickins: someone give andrew a clear cache rocket..you can't be in SL all of these years and never tried one. :D

[12:28] Kallista Destiny: Here is one for you

[12:28] Whirly Fizzle: err I hope thats one haha

[12:28] Kallista Destiny: lols andrew's inventory jumps

[12:29] Motor Loon: netstat -an|find /c " " types in a command prompt gives you currently used connections I belive for your conneciton.

[12:29] Andrew Linden: Ok so the recent interestlist changes that are already on the main grid...

[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: I just gth 4000 for at least two secs then back to ground, lol

[12:29] Andrew Linden whispers: the "clear cache

[12:29] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah that works too hehe

[12:30] Andrew Linden: the "clear cache" rockets work by making the simulator send KillObject messages for everything in view

[12:30] Rex Cronon: i don't think that if u have a connection that supports 1mb up/down will do very good if there are a few hundred http connections:(

[12:30] Whirly Fizzle: ahhh right

[12:30] TankMaster Finesmith: cant use gth in the ll viewer

[12:30] Andrew Linden: the KillObject message has two meanings... it is ambiguous

[12:30] Kallista Destiny: Yeah, it's actually a clear local cache

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: which I use mainly when bodys using rigged mesh fail to load

[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: *body data

[12:30] Andrew Linden: it means either (1) the object was deleted or (2) the server thinks the object is no longer in your interestlist, and will stop sending updates for it

[12:31] Whirly Fizzle: Yep Lucis, thats what people are complaining about no longer working

[12:31] Whirly Fizzle: *Lucia

[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: my mesh horse av is a good example

[12:31] Andrew Linden: in either case the viewer is supposed to delete the object from its render pipeline

[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: the body doesn't load for many who enter the sim after I attach it

[12:31] Andrew Linden: so the new interestlist code still sends KillObject messages however...

[12:31] Rex Cronon: brb. need to check something

[12:32] Andrew Linden: it is a bit lazier about getting around to sending them, especially when the viewer's camera is still moving around

[12:32] Jonathan Yap: How much of a delay do those rockets need now?

[12:33] Andrew Linden: that is, the "clear cache" rockets would probably work if they go way up, sit up there at rest for about 5 seconds, and then come back down

[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: One change I have noticed when dd is at zero is you now still see all avies cam crosshairs. Im sure before you didnt see them

[12:33] Rex Cronon: would these rockets work better if once up it rezzes lots of prims before comming down?

[12:34] Lexbot Sinister: Btw, the mesh being invisible to some thing is slightly embaressing. I was in a G region, and suddenly there's a bunch of underage av's running around with nothing on. >.< turns out my viewer just didn't load the mesh clothes.

[12:34] Andrew Linden: if you were to enable the visibility of the update messages (CTRL + ALT + SHIFT + U) you should see a bunch of green KillObject sprites show up when you move away from some objects and then stop moving the camera

[12:34] Andrew Linden: Rex, no the rocket rezzing lots of objects will not help.

[12:34] Simon Linden: How do we display those updates when theoretically you can't see the object they are for?

[12:34] Whirly Fizzle: Complaints about mesh not loading have really shot up, but its always hard to say whats cauing that, it could be so many things

[12:35] Lexbot Sinister: for me it's 100% graphic card/memory related.

[12:35] Andrew Linden: Regarding the dd = 0 trick...

[12:35] Lexbot Sinister: Too much mesh around and some won't rez.

[12:36] Andrew Linden: setting dd = 0 should help trigger fresh updates for objects... but you might need to let it sit at 0 for 5 seconds again

[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: aha okay!

[12:36] Andrew Linden: btw, the server doesn't allow 0m for draw distance -- it will enforce a minum of 10m for draw distance for its own logic

[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: My main complaint with the interest list project is that is is too easy to run my RAM up with my cam loading objects halfway into adjacent regions just because my cam moved in that general direction from the center of the region I'm in, its not hard to load 9 regions ground terrain fully plus half of whats in each region closest to the borders with just a 184m draw

[12:38] Andrew Linden: A friend of mine demonstrated an SL client to me running on his android phone a week or two ago... I think it was called "Lumia" or something like that.

[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: ahh I didnt know that. You can still see your own avi with dd at zero, and all the terrain

[12:38] Andrew Linden: His client settings had the draw distance set to 20m

[12:38] Inara Pey: Lumiya

[12:38] Andrew Linden: so I checked the server code to make sure that a 20m draw distance was supported

[12:38] Andrew Linden: Thanks Inara.

[12:39] TankMaster Finesmith: when i set the dd to 0 just now, everything but the floor im standing on dissapeared right away, then 5 seconds later, that also dissapeared

[12:39] Andrew Linden: TankMaster, I don't think the server sent KillObject messages for all of the objects in your view

[12:39] TankMaster Finesmith: only the terain and watter showed

[12:39] Andrew Linden: but the viewer may be removing them all from the render pipeline

[12:40] TankMaster Finesmith: ah ok

[12:40] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, a little while ago I wrote up https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-1829 and it was closed as expected behavior, but I am curious about something--it is my PF character that does not appear on the mini-map, but other non-moving objects behind me do. What is going on?

[12:40] Andrew Linden reads the bug...

[12:40] Andrew Linden: Ah, this is for a moving object that is behind you (not in view)

[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: When the viewer removes objects from the render pipeline, is that when you see the killobject messages in viewer logs?

[12:40] Jonathan Yap: yes

[12:41] Andrew Linden: when you turn away it stops getting position updates from the server

[12:41] Simon Linden: I think the one you see in the logs is when the KillObject message comes in but the viewer doesn't know about that object any more

[12:41] Jonathan Yap: I first found then when I teleported to a new region

[12:41] Andrew Linden: that is new in the interestlist that is already on the main grid, but I have a fix that reduces that problem in the new project

[12:41] Andrew Linden: Jonathan, the server is currently "delaying" the updates for objects that you can't see

[12:42] Jonathan Yap: also, once the moving object appears on the map then it always shows, even when I do turn away

[12:42] Andrew Linden: however the delay is "indefinite" until you either turn around, or the object happens to wander into view

[12:42] Jonathan Yap: But Andrew, static objects do appear behind me on the map--are moving ones given a special case?

[12:42] Andrew Linden: in the next project the server will be sending updates for things that change out of view, but at a lower rate

[12:43] Andrew Linden: jonathan, yes static "cacheable" objects are treated differently

[12:43] Jonathan Yap: okay, so I was not going crazy, thank you

[12:43] Rex Cronon: btw. there is something bizzare (in a bad way)that is going on ...

[12:43] Andrew Linden: the server sends what we're now calling "cache probes" (ObjectUpdateCached messages) for the cacheable objects behind you

[12:44] Andrew Linden: and if they are in cache then the veiwer will put them into the render pipeline, even if they are out of view

[12:44] Andrew Linden: or at least... the viewer puts them on the minimap

[12:44] Andrew Linden: which reminds me...

[12:45] Andrew Linden: the other bit of work that is new in my pending project is that I've expanded the definition of what is "cacheable" for the object cache data

[12:45] Andrew Linden: Currently it is the case that "cacheable" means it is static and doesn't have any script

[12:46] Rex Cronon: right now(this is going on for at least a week , i think) at rausch there are over 14000 scripts in around 30 active objects. those 14k scripts make it impossible to rez things from inventory, and create lag:(

[12:46] Andrew Linden: The reason for this is that we've basically got two big lists of objects on the server: "passive" objects that don't move and don't have scripts and "active" objects that are moving or have scripts

[12:47] Andrew Linden: the two lists were being used for two different purposes: (1) for script execution and (2) for interestlist sorting cacheable vs non-cacheable

[12:47] Andrew Linden: I changed the interestlist to look on both lists and send cache probes and updates for any object that hasn't changed in a couple of minutes

[12:48] Duckie Dickins: Rex: Sounds like the same thing that was also going on at the Vortex Adult sand box....super lag and sometimes viewer crashes just going there.

[12:48] Andrew Linden: which greatly expands the set of cacheable objects

[12:48] Andrew Linden: so there should be more cache hits going forward

[12:48] Rex Cronon: what is going on? scripts should't affect rezzing:(

[12:48] Inara Pey: Andrew, any thoughts on Maestro's comment on interest list and vehicle region crossing issues - http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-03-04-Updated-2013-03-05-11-30PST/m-p/1920491/highlight/true#M9625

[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: I can't even cross a region on an npv without major issues, lol

[12:50] Rex Cronon: i forgot to say that if i turn beacons on for scripts and try to look for these scripted objects the viewer crashes:(

[12:50] Qie Niangao: Heck, crossing sims on foot is dicey these days.

[12:50] Andrew Linden: Inara, I think it is possible that problem crossing regions boundaries on vehicles is related to interestlist changes

[12:50] Andrew Linden: I had an idea on something that might fix the problem. I'm going to try to implement it today

[12:51] Andrew Linden: however, we haven't been able to reproduce the problem

[12:51] Andrew Linden: I suspect it has something to do with long ping-times... some kind of race condition

[12:51] Andrew Linden: but honestly I haven't examined all the data in detail. Most of what I know is from talking to Maestro.

[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: if I try to cross a region on an npv once I hit the border my cam sticks and my avatar and npv disappear and their position shows up as in the region past the one I was going into

[12:52] Inara Pey: A lot of people reporting issues do seem to be from the UK / Europe...

[12:52] Whirly Fizzle: Maestro repro'd it, if its https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-1814

[12:52] Andrew Linden: Lucia, you say you can reproduce the problem reliably? Are you on the other side of the Atlantic?

[12:52] Rex Cronon: so andrew. what do u think of the 14000 scripts that create lag, don't allow rezzing , and can even crash your viewer?

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: I end up the next sim past the one I was trying to cross into

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: with my cam stuck at teh border

[12:53] Andrew Linden: Hrm... ok I must be wrong Whirlly. Maestro was able to reproduce it.

[12:53] Andrew Linden: I'll have to try it out.

[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: Rex are you crashing or disconnecting? ie) Does viewer poof to desktop or do you get the "You have been logged out of SL blah blah" message?

[12:54] Andrew Linden: I guess that is what I'll be working on tomorrow.

[12:54] Rex Cronon: you guys can right now go to rausch and see that sim is useless:(

[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: Rausch needs taken down and the spam removed while down, then restarted, I saw hundreds of sound spam reports last time I was there

[12:54] Rex Cronon: crash whirly

[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: literally hundreds of lines of blocked sound spam 80x in two secs...

[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: which I wish was throttled by owner not object , lol

[12:55] Rex Cronon: the big problem are the 14k scripts that donw' allow rezzing

[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[12:55] Rex Cronon: that don't*

[12:55] Duckie Dickins: maybe they're rezzing temp objects?

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: no, they're spamming sound en masse

[12:56] Rex Cronon: and u can't find those scripted objects, and because u can't find them u have no idea who owner is

[12:56] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah that can crash a viewer without a pam blocker

[12:56] Whirly Fizzle: *spam

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: teh spam blocker alerts were spamming me, lol

[12:56] Andrew Linden: Maybe we should tweak the "gray goo fence" (GGF) to be a bit harsher on sound triggers

[12:57] Andrew Linden: I think it already notices sound triggers, but I'll have to check the code to make sure...

[12:57] Rex Cronon: how about the "gray goo fence" not allowing one person to use 14k scripts?

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: afaik, those spam objects are underwater near the east border of Rausch, didn't bother checking owner

[12:57] Qie Niangao: I'm not sure why it follows that failure to rez objects is due to the excessive script count... how do we know that? Some error message?

[12:58] Jonathan Yap: Is Rausch a private region? I cannot find it on the map

[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: its LL's main combat sim

[12:58] Whirly Fizzle: Is mem allocation maxed? That will stop being allowed to rez

[12:58] Andrew Linden: Rausch is one of the old regions near the center of the map

[12:58] Andrew Linden: a few regions west of Da Boom

[12:58] Rex Cronon: it has a wierd name, rausch is the short version

[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: the only thing I saw in Rausch from teh numbers was script timing as high as 22.2222

[12:58] Andrew Linden: er... east I mean

[12:59] Lexbot Sinister: All comes down to more active governance, i'm afraid.

[12:59] Qie Niangao: "Combat (sandbox) Rausch" finds it on the map

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: Sandbox - Weapons testing (no damag (146,140,46)

[12:59] Rex Cronon: there r over 14k scripts in only 30 objects. somehow that affects rezzing objects

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: oops

[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: Combat (sandbox) Rausch (164,181,23)

[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[13:00] Rex Cronon: if peopl ar nothing seem to happen:(

[13:00] Andrew Linden: the GGF does not appear to be watching scripted sound calls

[13:00] Hexapoda: No Mans Land (128,128,2)

[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: AR's rarely resolve issues these days, unless its Fraud cases, heh

[13:01] Andrew Linden: perhaps it should... but if we do that we'll probably push some perfectly working and good content into the fence

[13:01] Jonathan Yap: If these sound objects are way off to one side why would your viewer be getting their sounds -- shouldn't they be off the interest list?

[13:02] TankMaster Finesmith: may not be a bad thing if it helps with griffers

[13:02] Rex Cronon: if thise new hack is allowed to continue it can render most sims useless:(

[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: I got near them and got spammed, lol

[13:02] Rex Cronon: especially public sandboxes:(

[13:02] Lexbot Sinister: Coding griefers away is not a good sollution, they will always find loopholes, while the rest of SL improvements suffer.

[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: camming near then shows the beacons too

[13:02] Liisa Runo: (you are mixing Rausch and Jessie. Jessie is lil bit east from DaBoom, Jessie is the first damage sim in SL)

[13:02] Andrew Linden: Lexbot, true the problem can't be eliminated, but nevertheless I'm interested in technical solutions that reduce the problem.

[13:03] Kallista Destiny: Thank you

[13:03] Qie Niangao: maybe just need a different sandbox practice. Clear out every prim, even if just rezzed, every two hours.

[13:03] Rex Cronon: the not being able to rez things from inventory is the bad part:(

[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: I'm still waiting for thresholds land owners can set for their land/regions, heh

[13:03] Jonathan Yap: Are those sounds being sent by udp and filling up the network link, too?

[13:03] Andrew Linden: Simon, can you send me a copy of this transcript? I missed the first few minutes.

[13:03] Andrew Linden: I'll merge your and my transcripts.

[13:04] Rex Cronon: and since u don't know who owner is , u can't mute them, nor can u ar them:(

[13:04] Whirly Fizzle: Viewers do not handle regions with too many sounds well, even when its not griffer objects. This happens https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28101

[13:04] Simon Linden: Sure Andrew, 1 sec...

[13:04] Andrew Linden: Jonathan, I believe they are sent via UDP, so it is possible that there are enough to affect UDP traffic.

[13:04] Andrew Linden: At least, download traffic

[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, Whirls that affects v1 viewers bad, it has to be crossing major thresholds to start affecting v3's not sure the diffs

[13:06] Simon Linden: I have to run - thanks everyone for coming today

[13:06] MartinRJ Fayray: goodbye Simon

[13:06] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks for coming everyone.

[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: laters

[13:06] Rex Cronon: tc simon

[13:06] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Andrew and Simon.

[13:06] Jonathan Yap: I suspect the same code is in v1 as for v3, that part hasn't changed much over the years

[13:06] Rex Cronon: tc andrew

[13:06] Qie Niangao: Thanks Lindens.

[13:06] Nalates Urriah: Thanks Lindens

[13:06] Yuzuru Jewell: And Baker.

[13:07] Hexapoda: take care Lindens and eat griefers.

[13:07] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Lindens

[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: it could very well just be the spam protection, heh

[13:07] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens

[13:07] Inara Pey: Thank you, Simon, Andrew



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