Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.06.18

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List of Speakers

Adamburp Adamczyk Andrew Linden Baker Linden
Duckie Dickins entity x2 Faust Vollmar
Grim Thursday Hexapoda Honza Noyes
Immaculata Catronis Inara Pey Kelly Linden
Kitto Flora Levio Serenity Lexbot Sinister
Lucia Nightfire Mona Eberhardt Motor Loon
Petr Topaz Qie Niangao Rex Cronon
Talarus Luan Tiberious Neruda Whirly Fizzle
Yuzuru Jewell


[12:01] Kelly Linden: Hello

[12:01] Whirly Fizzle: How'd you do that......

[12:01] Levio Serenity: well yea that was the idea : )

[12:02] Talarus Luan: html-on-a-prim

[12:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Kelly.

[12:02] Levio Serenity: no its not html

[12:02] Whirly Fizzle: Thats a grab of FS skin too

[12:02] Kelly Linden: Simon is gonna miss today, but I'll give it a couple more minutes to see if Andrew can make it.

[12:02] Petr Topaz: Hello Kelly

[12:03] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Inara.

[12:03] Inara Pey: It's Baker!

[12:03] Inara Pey: Hey, Yuzuru!

[12:03] Mona Eberhardt: Hello Baker.

[12:03] Faust Vollmar finally made it to one of these things for once. =o

[12:03] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Baker.

[12:03] Adamburp Adamczyk: i finally had the right shift to get her in person instead of a text viewer

[12:04] Levio Serenity: glad you could make it \o/

[12:04] Baker Linden: hello everyone!

[12:11] Levio Serenity: Vantelli is online.

[12:05] Kelly Linden: All right, we can get started then, since I don't see Andrew.

[12:05] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Baker

[12:05] Kelly Linden: As always this weeks release schedule is in the forums:

[12:05] Kelly Linden: Today Andrew's improved interest list was rolled out to the main channel, and since it was on all RCs already it is now on every region.

[12:06] Baker Linden: Andrew is having issues with the internets

[12:06] Kelly Linden:

[12:06] Baker Linden: he's trying to hop on

[12:06] Kelly Linden: Tomorrow all RCs will get an updated version of the maintenance release that was out briefly last week.

[12:06] Mona Eberhardt: Aaaaaand here he is! Hi Andrew!

[12:06] Andrew Linden: Sorry I'm late.

[12:06] Faust Vollmar: Yay

[12:11] Levio Serenity: Andrew

[12:06] Andrew Linden: I was having technical difficulties.

[12:07] Kelly Linden: Hey Andrew, I was just going over the server releases for this week.

[12:07] Andrew Linden: I don't think Simon can make it this week.

[12:07] Andrew Linden: Continue Kelly, you know more about it than I do

[12:07] Mona Eberhardt: Ah, I'm sorry my country's government members are alive.

[12:07] Adamburp Adamczyk passes andrew a slice of birthday cake

[12:08] Kelly Linden: The updates in the maintenance channel this week include re-enabling the new llReturnObjectsByID function but with some more restrictions (can't return objects owned by the parcel owner or estate managers, similar to llReturnObjectsByOwner), a crash fix and some fixes for HTTP-In url confusion (BUG-2833)

[12:09] Kelly Linden: That is all the release news I have so I'll hand it back to Andrew.

[12:09] Andrew Linden: Ok.

[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: someone give me a c/p of what I missed? heh

[12:10] Motor Loon: Looking forward to play with the obj. return functions, very cool you guys put that in.

[12:10] Adamburp Adamczyk: wewere jsut handing out hte birthday cake lucy

[12:10] Andrew Linden: Actually, I'd like a copy of the transcripts from the very beginning of the meeting so I can add them to what I'll copy.

[12:10] Andrew Linden: That's right. SL launched around... June 23rd (?) 2003.

[12:11] Andrew Linden: So we're nearly at 10 years.

[12:11] Honza Noyes: I have got a question about object inventory, while having an object with many items in it, the loading of its contents take incredibly long. Is there any way to speed this up?

[12:12] Andrew Linden: Yes, probably. What sort of numbers of items are you talking about?

[12:12] Honza Noyes: Arround 300, I would say.

[12:12] Andrew Linden: And... maybe there should be a limit to the number of object items.

[12:12] Honza Noyes: It is mostly animations.

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Sure, people can create that many items in contents, but I wouldn't rank it as a good idea.

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Hrm...

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Honza, how long does it take to download all 300 right now?

[12:13] Mona Eberhardt: The thing is, Andrew, that objects like that can be extremely useful. See the various texture organisers that are in circulations.

[12:13] Mona Eberhardt: circulation*

[12:13] Honza Noyes: ~30 seconds or more.

[12:14] Rex Cronon whispers: greetings

[12:14] Honza Noyes: I can give you the object to try.

[12:14] Levio Serenity: there are people who use tools that have 1000s of items

[12:14] Andrew Linden: I don't know the exact nature of the bottleneck there, but 30 seconds sounds too long.

[12:14] Andrew Linden: I'm pretty sure it could be sped up, but I'd have to dig around to see why it is slow.

[12:14] Tiberious Neruda: it's not helpful that with animations, we HAVE to have them in the content of an object to use them, while other things can be called via key

[12:14] Kelly Linden: Object inventory transfer from server to viewer uses one of the oldest legacy methods in Second Life. Updating that is probably a good idea but would require a joint viewer and server version change, or some acrobatics on managing compatibility

[12:15] Mona Eberhardt: Andrew, sometimes it takes up to 40 seconds to load the contents of an object that contains 60 or so items.

[12:15] Andrew Linden: Perhaps Kelly, or maybe there is just a simple bug there.

[12:15] Andrew Linden: The UDP protocol should be able to transmit 300 items in much less than 30 seconds.

[12:16] Honza Noyes: I am not really sure about how it really works from server > client, but to me, it seems that it is being transfered one by one.

[12:16] Qie Niangao: That process has been very slow for a long time, so it's an ancient bug / design problem.

[12:16] Talarus Luan: Probably does 300 queries to the database and transfers each object one at a time

[12:16] Honza Noyes: And since the content of object won't show until it fully loads, it could be sent as one piece of data.

[12:17] Rex Cronon: even 300 udp packets take l

[12:17] Grim Thursday: stop

[12:17] RT Chinook Unmarked Edition v2.0 whispers: shutting down engines.

[12:17] Levio Serenity: its also very prone to losing no copy items if you drag in lots at once. esp if a prev drag hasn't finished yet

[12:17] Faust Vollmar: An object inventory cap would be fairly bad news for me, depening on how strict the limit would be.

[12:17] Rex Cronon: less than 30 sencons

[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: get to da choppa

[12:17] Immaculata Catronis: stop

[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: [12:17:30] Eclipse ESP HUD (T) v0.54341: Last collisions detected:

Object: RT Chinook Unmarked Edition v2.0, Owner: Grim Thursday, Velocity: 1 m/s, Mass: 65661.13 kgs, Time: 27 seconds ago

[12:17] Honza Noyes: Adding a cap.. What would happen to the current objects breaking it?

[12:17] Rex Cronon: it must be sending one letter per udp packet:)

[12:17] Andrew Linden: Honza, I'll try to look around to see what is limiting that.

[12:18] Andrew Linden: However, I should note... I won't be attending next week. I'll be on vacation.

[12:18] Honza Noyes: Thank you. I can provide you with actual objects if you want.

[12:18] Immaculata Catronis: Where in TARNATION am I ?

[12:18] Grim Thursday: start

[12:18] RT Chinook Unmarked Edition v2.0 whispers: starting engines.

[12:18] Lexbot Sinister: Putting in a cap would break every texture organizer on the grid and fix literally nothing, if the problems start at 60 objects already.

[12:18] Immaculata Catronis: start

[12:18] Andrew Linden: Sure Honza. That way I won't have to make my own.

[12:19] Honza Noyes: uhhuh

[12:19] Talarus Luan: ..and everyone trolls the noobs by freezing the vehicle in edit mode :P

[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: ok, can someone ban them or soemthing?

[12:19] Tiberious Neruda: >:3

[12:20] Honza Noyes: You shouldn't be able to freeze vehicles like that anymore.

[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: You can :D

[12:20] Honza Noyes: No?

[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: only people with return rights to the land the object is over can

[12:20] Talarus Luan: Yeah, you can still

[12:20] Honza Noyes: Yes, when you have the land rights.

[12:20] Honza Noyes: But not without those.

[12:21] Faust Vollmar: I use an object with an arbitrary amount of notecards in it as a method for storing character type data so I hope to not get capped too hard in that regard.

[12:22] Rex Cronon: what gets capped?

[12:22] Honza Noyes: So far, I don't see a reason why object inventory should be capped.

[12:22] Mona Eberhardt: And here's the 1000-GigaWatt facelight.

[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: I've seen 1.21 jigawatt facelights

[12:22] Talarus Luan: Lux Capacitor

[12:22] Tiberious Neruda: facelight in the hair... lovely

[12:22] Petr Topaz: lol

[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: actually burns terrain textures to a crisp, heh

[12:23] Talarus Luan: Did the meeting just get completely derailed or what? <.<

[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: seems like it, lol

[12:23] Faust Vollmar: Yup

[12:23] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I had my render options turned way down for some testing... I couldn't see lights.

[12:23] Tiberious Neruda: does this meeting ever -have- any real rails?

[12:23] Rex Cronon: u guys realize that objects inventory r used to reduce nr of objects in avatar nventory...

[12:24] Tiberious Neruda: most ;ve ever seen are guideposts :3

[12:24] Whirly Fizzle: OOh I just wanted to mention quickly, many here have been looking foreword to the new feature that allows right clicking on particles to block the owner. Thats available now in this viewer:

[12:24] Honza Noyes: Not just that Rex.

[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: Immaculata Catronis take your particle spam and leave

[12:24] Qie Niangao: oh, that reminds me... there were going to be some new particle thingies... whatever happened to those?

[12:24] Whirly Fizzle: Kinda seems appropriate atm :D

[12:24] Immaculata Catronis: sorry

[12:24] Kitto Flora: Ribbons?

[12:24] Qie Niangao: yeah, those...

[12:24] Talarus Luan: Ctrl-Alt-Shift-= works fine

[12:24] Kelly Linden: any limit on object inventory would have to be pretty high (hundreds at a minimum) and only have an effect when adding new items (to preserve legacy items).

[12:24] Kitto Flora: Do we have ribbons yet?

[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: I tried that viewer out, couldn't find the particle setup option anywhere

[12:25] Qie Niangao: and some way to, like, select a particle in the viewer to find its emitter, or something like that.

[12:25] Levio Serenity: i guess instead of complaining about griefers at this weekly mtg, they arranged for one to show up?

[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: Ya, MAINT-2268[c] Particle system selector

[12:25] Immaculata Catronis: there is a black cat reading a book !

[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: You can get that now in link above

[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: Its really cool

[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: I did

[12:25] Tiberious Neruda: too easy...

[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: where is it in teh viewer

[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: Tight click someone elses partcles

[12:26] Kelly Linden: The maintenance project viewer has it I think:

[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: *right

[12:26] Talarus Luan: Anyway.. is there any procedure or protocol to bring up ancient SCR or SVC issues?

[12:26] entity x2: legalize it!

[12:26] Kitto Flora: The cat cant read the book - its been trying for months. Same book :)

[12:26] Honza Noyes: Probably have to resubmit them Talarus..

[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: I looked in teh viewer for the particle setup thing, is it not a menu option?

[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: It won't allow you to block Lindens partcles though :P

[12:26] Qie Niangao: oh, okay, thanks... I've been stuck with the Materials beta viewer for months.

[12:26] Talarus Luan: I tried that.. got closed as dupes

[12:26] Levio Serenity: i dont think the issue should revolve around capping it. i think the issue is more it says "Loading Contents..." forever and there's no progress feedback given and you dont see anything until it hits 100%

[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: So kelly gets to keep his bling :P

[12:26] Andrew Linden: You can raise the issues here Telarus.

[12:27] Talarus Luan: SVC-7556

[12:27] Talarus Luan: llSetKeyframedMotion objects lose motion after a sim reset.

[12:28] Honza Noyes: Is this the appropriate place to bring up viewer-side issues too?

[12:28] Mona Eberhardt: Someone needs to remove that stupid "entity x2" object the idiot from before left here.

[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: is there a particle creation setup menu in that viewer or is it just new function constants added to teh particle functions?

[12:29] Talarus Luan: Also would like to inquire from Kelly if there is any movement towards some of SCR-4. I see we finally got PRIM_SLICE, which is great.

[12:29] Tiberious Neruda: uhh, I've got a question, when it's got room for ir

[12:30] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I wonder why your objects are affected Talarus while there haven't been any other comments on that Jira issue since Aug 2012.

[12:30] Kelly Linden: No specific project(s) for SCR-4 at this time Talarus

[12:30] Talarus Luan: Beats me, but it has been repeated.

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:30] Levio Serenity: i gotta admit i would kill for the _ONLY options

[12:31] Talarus Luan: Eh well.. maybe next year when I ask again.

[12:31] Andrew Linden: Telarus, this is a simple keyframed object with a simple script?

[12:31] Talarus Luan: Yes it is

[12:31] Talarus Luan: Just bobs up and down and rotates.

[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: I have projects that build lists of params such as texture and color that are pretty sizable, but only need to change one of teh actual attributes instead of all

[12:31] Talarus Luan: Feel free to take a copy of it

[12:32] Talarus Luan: It should be stuck again.. I haven't reset it since this morning's restart.

[12:32] Andrew Linden: That is, can you post an example script in the jira that reproduces the problem ?

[12:32] Kitto Flora: I think you can script around that by using change() event and CHANGED_REGION_START to restart the motion system

[12:32] Andrew Linden: Or would we need to get a copy in-world?

[12:33] Talarus Luan: I think I posted it in that JIRA, didn't I?

[12:33] Qie Niangao: That might be tricky to restart the motion system, because the kfm object might be anywhere in the command list (I think).

[12:33] Andrew Linden: ah yes, I see.

[12:34] Tiberious Neruda: you'd probably just set it back to its original 'starting point' with a function, then restart the KFM

[12:34] Qie Niangao: (but yeah, not impossible... A llSetRegionPos() or so away.)

[12:34] Motor Loon: fixes are better han workrounds

[12:34] Talarus Luan: Yeah, but it is still a bug... needs fixing

[12:34] Andrew Linden: Ok, I took a note.

[12:34] Talarus Luan: Thankies

[12:34] Kitto Flora: When a KFM driven 'vehicle' crosses a border it has the same probelm. Drive stops even though its incomplete. Have to restart the motion system....

[12:35] Talarus Luan: Well, changing sims is one thing.

[12:35] Andrew Linden: Dunno when I could get to it. I'm still wrapping up some interestlist stuff (and will then be on vacation)

[12:35] Andrew Linden: but I'll try to write up some bullet points and pass them to Simon

[12:35] Andrew Linden: Tiberious, you had a question?

[12:35] Talarus Luan: Objects that are always in the same sim should still continue to operate

[12:35] Honza Noyes: Is there any time plan for MAINT-2292 to reach the viewer release?

[12:35] Tiberious Neruda: so, my question is, is there any specific reason why an avatar cannot be set to PHYSICS_TYPE_NONE when sitting on an object?

[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: invincibility

[12:36] Andrew Linden: Right. Some people play shoot-em-up, and that would make them unshootable.

[12:36] Motor Loon wants what Tib is asking for

[12:36] Levio Serenity: why cant root prims be set to physics none? to take objects 100% of havok

[12:36] Levio Serenity: * 100% out

[12:36] Talarus Luan: Phantom?

[12:37] Andrew Linden: Since that would break some content in SL, we have the avatar keep its collidability.

[12:37] Tiberious Neruda: (as there's fixes in place for prims when links are broken to reset the physics shape, I'd imagine if the avatar is anything like a prim, it would likely work the same way)

[12:37] Rex Cronon: i think is that is wrong. u r invincible if u r sitting on object in damage enabled sim

[12:37] Tiberious Neruda: objects still collide with you

[12:37] Rex Cronon: they can't kill u

[12:37] Faust Vollmar: Scripted systems, Rex

[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: why can't we have a PRIM_LINK_ROOT_POS and PRIM_LINK_ROOT_ROT modifier for llSLPP or llSLP for modding only the root prim pos and rot in a linkset, heh

[12:38] Levio Serenity: you can edit the root post & rot w/ llSLPP()

[12:38] Talarus Luan: i think there is a JIRA for a root-prim only pos/rot, kinda like how the viewer allows that.

[12:38] Andrew Linden: I actually wrote an implementation of llSLPP that did that...

[12:39] Rex Cronon: if u use volumedetect u should be able to detect collisions even with phantom objects. right?

[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: you can change it but it pos and rot teh whole linkset

[12:39] Levio Serenity: gotcha

[12:39] Talarus Luan: Yeah.. this was a feature request.. I don't think it ever made it in.

[12:39] Andrew Linden: however, someone considered the behavior unintuitive for the existing API, so we pulled it out

[12:40] Tiberious Neruda: I know there's some uses for being able to make the avatar's physics type 'None'

[12:40] Andrew Linden: btw, rotating the root while all the other parts stay put in the world-frame actually produces a lot of object update data...

[12:40] Talarus Luan: "Unintuitive for the existing API" -- that describes more than half of the API. :P

[12:40] Andrew Linden: the object rotates, and then all sub-parts move again to regain their previous world-frame rotations

[12:40] Rex Cronon: i second what talarus said:)

[12:40] Motor Loon: me too

[12:40] Andrew Linden: in theory, we wouldn't be able to transmit all the data for that in a single packet for some objects

[12:41] Talarus Luan: Yeah, that makes sense.. would have to do some kind of special update for that situation.

[12:41] Faust Vollmar: I don't believe Volume Detect picks up -other- Phantom objects... And physics-type-none is like a super-phantom on top of that, it has no presence in the engine period, rather than a non-colliding one.

[12:41] Tiberious Neruda: as yu cna see

[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: it'll be ideal when everyone is in a 64bit env

[12:42] Yuzuru Jewell: Monster Ball!

[12:42] Levio Serenity: yea i have a few products i would rather take out of the physics engine totally

[12:43] Tiberious Neruda: I'd love to be able to let that fall and roll along the ground with me 'inside' it (alphaed out and sat on it)

[12:43] Talarus Luan: What amount of physics simulation do phantom objects have? O.o

[12:43] Andrew Linden: phantom means "collides with terrain only"

[12:43] Andrew Linden whispers: it is achieved via a "collision group

[12:44] Motor Loon: ..which is super annoying

[12:44] Rex Cronon: talking about phantom. i really don't like it how objects become phantom if they r rezzed around an avatar. i understand if they became phantom to let avatar get out, but once avatar is out they should revert to normal

[12:44] Talarus Luan: Ohh.. ok.

[12:44] Andrew Linden: er... it is achieved via a "collision group", and various groups can be configured to not collide with other groups

[12:44] Andrew Linden: yeah, we initally had phantom objects falling through the terrain

[12:44] Talarus Luan: Well, if you take something out of the physics engine totally, it wouldn't move except for scripted non-phys movement, right?

[12:45] Andrew Linden: so we set it to collide with the terrain. Now some people rely on that behavior.

[12:45] Andrew Linden: Yes Telarus.

[12:45] Tiberious Neruda: so...

[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: yes, spam you can't cleanup unless you have push enabled in teh region, heh

[12:45] Andrew Linden: I can't remember why we require some collision for the root prim....

[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: peobably due to region encroaching, heh

[12:46] Faust Vollmar: Kinda miss SWT already...

[12:46] Andrew Linden: except that the PHYSICS_TYPE_NONE feature was added to help solve the "very intricate dashboard problem"

[12:46] Tiberious Neruda: would there be any way to allow VolumeDetect objects to throw land_collision events when they pass through the ground?

[12:46] Andrew Linden: where people wanted to make vehicles that ran, but would put very detailed dashboard with many many prims inside, that shouldn't contribute to the vehicle's collision shape

[12:46] Mona Eberhardt: Andrew, I don't know if this has been answered before, but it's been puzzling me. When I build something that incorporates a sphere (or any number of spheres), changing the sphere's physics to "none", regardless of the root prim's physics, causes the LI to increase.

[12:47] Andrew Linden: hrm...

[12:47] Talarus Luan: Yeah, I think I just read that in the wiki

[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: that and land impact costs

[12:47] Rex Cronon: right faust. swt(sandbox weapons testing) has been crashed for so long...

[12:47] Andrew Linden: You know what... I don't know why that would be the case. I'd have to ask Falcon if he remembers why.

[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: WT has been down for oever a week, I know

[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: be nice if it was up so the griefers had something to crash other than important places of commerce

[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: lol

[12:48] Andrew Linden: Hrm... WT is disabled on the grid.

[12:49] Andrew Linden: I don't know why that would be the case. I'll have to ask around.

[12:49] Faust Vollmar: WT had been put in no-script on the entire sim for ages, I figured someone decided it was useless entirely now and shut it down

[12:49] Rex Cronon: dissabled? it is missing a limb;)

[12:49] Kelly Linden: Mona: My test w/ 2 cubes and a sphere doesn't increase LI when the sphere is changed to physics shape none.

[12:49] Honza Noyes: Could you tell us anything about the experience permissions?

[12:49] Tiberious Neruda: is the sphere changed from perfection?

[12:50] Mona Eberhardt: Yes Tiberious.

[12:50] Tiberious Neruda: ah

[12:50] Mona Eberhardt: Hollowed out, dimpled...

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: ball polisher

[12:50] Tiberious Neruda: that would do it

[12:50] Tiberious Neruda: I remember having an 895LI hollowed/dimpled sphere...

[12:51] Mona Eberhardt: even though its physics were set to "none", Tiberious?

[12:51] Talarus Luan: Oh, yeah, if you don't use the legacy prim physics setting, it actually computes the real impact, of which "physics" is one of three measures.

[12:51] Tiberious Neruda: no

[12:52] Faust Vollmar: Oh I almost forgot, did my inquiry about an event for being-set-running-while-still-having-a-saved-state get noted down/passed along a couple weeks ago?

[12:52] Tiberious Neruda: but I did notice that a 0-.500 cut is much lower than a .500-1.00 cut

[12:53] Andrew Linden: Kelly, do you remember that LSL event handler that Faust wants?

[12:54] Kelly Linden: I do not

[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: what is it?

[12:54] Andrew Linden: He wants the script to be able to detect that it had been paused.

[12:54] Andrew Linden: So when it starts up again it can handle the "I was just paused" event.

[12:55] Tiberious Neruda: take a look...

[12:55] Honza Noyes: Could you tell us anything about the experience permissions?

[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[12:55] Tiberious Neruda: the one that's .000-.500 cut is 37 LI

[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: what do mean paused?

[12:55] Tiberious Neruda: but the .500-1.00 cut is 145 LI

[12:56] Kelly Linden: Honza: I do not believe we have anything new to report for experience permissions at this time.

[12:56] Andrew Linden: Honza, we don't know much about the experience permissions timeline.

[12:56] Faust Vollmar: Lucy: When a script is set not-running, its state is saved until de-rezzed or crossing regions and will resume from where it was when set running again.

[12:56] Tiberious Neruda: why the severe change in LI for the same physical shape?

[12:57] Hexapoda: Btw, why do scripts fail to start as they often do in Linden Realms, often you see empty sims for the rez scripts has not been able to start.

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: so you want a state_running event or equiv, heh

[12:57] Andrew Linden: Tiberious, we tied some new features to the LI. So if you want to use those features you have to use the new LI.

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: on_startup

[12:57] Tiberious Neruda: ....that's not the issue, Andrew

[12:57] Tiberious Neruda: let me show you...

[12:58] Talarus Luan: It looks like the LI calculation is skewed. or perhaps a bit oversimplified.

[12:58] Motor Loon: nothing simple about those

[12:58] Andrew Linden: Right. I think PHYSICS_TYPE_NONE was one of those features that we tied to the new LI

[12:58] Faust Vollmar: Tiberious means that the two different dimple "directions" produce two wildly different LI values despite being the same final shape Andrew

[12:59] Tiberious Neruda: it's not even that

[12:59] Tiberious Neruda: the two different cut values

[12:59] Talarus Luan: Looks like it is just multiplying prim param values together..

[12:59] Talarus Luan: lower cut values produce lower LI

[13:00] Rex Cronon: all these LI calculations need to be KISS:)

[13:00] Andrew Linden: I can't remember how LI is computed for hollow-cut prims

[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: I don't get crazy land impact for torutred prims until I use materials or mesh or am I missing soemthing

[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[13:00] Duckie Dickins: Odd occurrance yesterday....while sailing across the blake sea my passenger kept getting unseated on sim crossing. She'd make it across but would suddenly not be seated on the sailboat. I forgot to check what channel the region was running under but if I see it again I'll report it.

[13:00] Tiberious Neruda: Andrew, check the LI for the following objects

[13:01] Tiberious Neruda: err the rezzed ones

[13:01] Tiberious Neruda: it's all physics weight

[13:01] Tiberious Neruda: but the only different values should result in the same end shape

[13:02] Andrew Linden: You're talking about the sphere linked to hollow hemi-sphere?

[13:02] Tiberious Neruda: I mean, I might understand if the difference between Cut start and Cut End was different

[13:02] Tiberious Neruda: yes

[13:02] Talarus Luan: yup

[13:03] Tiberious Neruda: but in both cases, the difference is .500

[13:03] Tiberious Neruda: shouldn't they be the same LI then?

[13:03] Andrew Linden: Yes, you would expect them to be the same.

[13:03] Talarus Luan: oops?

[13:03] Tiberious Neruda: but clearly, one's more than quadruple the weight

[13:03] Andrew Linden: There must be a bug or inconsistency in the LI calculation.

[13:03] Rex Cronon: no kidding:)

[13:04] Kitto Flora: How is that being set to 'CONVEX_HULL' ??? Is it by script or by the object editor?

[13:04] Talarus Luan: Is that just two spheres?

[13:04] Tiberious Neruda: object editor

[13:05] Tiberious Neruda: and only the root is convex Hull

[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: ah, so if teh root is "Prim" and is not "Prim" you get high LI, which seems reverse, lol

[13:05] Tiberious Neruda: the child is the dimpled, hollow sphere

[13:05] Hexapoda: To set a holow shore to object hull can give higher PE.

[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: seems teh reverse is teh same

[13:05] Talarus Luan: How do two spheres end up with a LI of 37 prim-equivalent? Let alone 145?

[13:06] Tiberious Neruda: the physics shape

[13:06] Faust Vollmar: I would laugh if it turns out the 37 is the bug and the 145 is correct. =p

[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: if theres a Prim and "non-prim" combo, it has high LI, regardless of which prims have it

[13:06] Qie Niangao: once any part of the linkset is using mesh physics, they all get the new LI accounting

[13:06] Talarus Luan: Is that still against the region 15,000 prim limit? O.o

[13:06] Tiberious Neruda: the only difference between the two

[13:06] Qie Niangao: (or materials, for that matter)

[13:06] Tiberious Neruda: is the red one has its hollow sphere at a different cut value

[13:07] Tiberious Neruda: Start of .500 and end of 1.00

[13:07] Tiberious Neruda: the green's Start is 0.00, and End is .500


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