Talk:LlGetGender

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As of May 7th, 2015, this function is now implemented. See: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/New-LSL-support-for-Avatar-Shape-Height-and-Hover/ba-p/2930353 http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails with OBJECT_BODY_SHAPE_TYPE: Gets a float which describes the sex setting of the avatar's currently worn shape. If id is not an avatar, -1.0 is returned. Normal operational values are in the range [0.0, 1.0]. 0.0 is standard female setting, 1.0 is standard male setting. Intermediate values with visible differences are possible with manually crafted shapes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added on 06/23/15 00:39 by XMoldMex Resident


This function should not be implement. While this request may be new, this function (in other incarnations) has been suggested before (llDetectedSex). The debate over this proposed functionality is based on the argument that it would facilitate scripted discrimination. Considering that it is easy enough to ask the user what sex they are, it seems to me not worth the dev time and the political fallout. -- Strife Onizuka 09:48, 1 June 2007 (PDT)

I think you are wrong, the payment status is much more discriminating and is pushed by the Lindens. I want to sell female body parts only to females and not to man. And I want to sell tem notrans. Same with cloths and hair. I want to close my Land for Male. It is my Land I pay tears for it and the rule is : Landowners make the rules. If this policy is changed I aske the Lindens to pay my tears Anylyn Hax 13:04, 1 June 2007 (PDT)

Just because there is one form of discrimination supported doesn't mean that we should accept any others. The only reason we have payment info visible is to facilitate discrimination against griefers. I don't consider it a good thing but it does seem to be a necessary evil. The type of sexual discrimination you describe is not necessary nor is it probably legal. Banning male AVs is one thing, but banning male users is another. I think it would be a violation of the Community Standards, Terms Of Service or federal law. To allow this would be a step backwards both socially and morally. In the last century women have gained a more equal footing with men through legislation mandating equality, this goes against the core of that legislation; with the loss of theses protections, women have more to loose then men (after all 84% of congressmen are men). -- Strife Onizuka 14:59, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
I Seen no discrimination in llGetGender() as long you can turn it off by setting itset it to 0 or another number. It is necesary, and absolute legal.
For Exemple:
0 - No Gender (Animals, Robots, Eunuchs, Linden Emploees, Volunteers)
1 - Female
2 - Male
3 - Children
4 - Ghosts, Witches, Vixons ...
Anylyn Hax 21:27, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
It seems you have made the common mistake of confusing agent and avatar. The avatar is the manifestation of the agent in world. You can change avatars but you can't change agents. The sex of the agent would translate into being the users RL sex. Be it the agent or avatar sex, I am against any function that exposes this information (I suspect that the AV sex was intended and not agent). I'd say more but I am heading to bed. I understand the reasons and the ways of implementing it (had this debate at least three times before in the past) and have remained unconvinced. Sorry. -- Strife Onizuka 01:15, 2 June 2007 (PDT)
1) YOUR OPINION DOESNT COUNT. STOP HARASSING ME WITH YOUR OPINIONS!
2) You are wrong as usual.
- To have a gender is legal.
- To ask for someones gender allso legal.
- I make no difference between avatar and agent, as long they use the same brain (because the brain makes the gender).
3) for some applications it is absolute necesar.
I sell female genitals and I sell them NoTrans. Lots of man buy them as a present for theyr wifes, and dont read carefully that the genitals are NoTrans. So I have situations where I must make cullance and give out free genitals them. If I could sensor the user/avatar/agent whatever, and get his gender I could elegantly tell him that this genitals are not for his stomach.
Another exemple: Weapon builders could restrict pointing a gun to a woman.
Or: I could kickban every male that comes to my land without having flowers attached to his right hand.
Anylyn Hax 06:03, 7 July 2007 (PDT)
  1. It saddens me that you would throw away your integrity to say that someone else's opinion doesn't count.
  2. To ask a person would be legal, but to require the answer and use it to discriminate against them flies in the face of the established rules.
    1. That doesn't sound like a problem that needs to be solved by the introduction of a new function, just have a warning box pop-up before sending the user the object (allowing them to cancel the order & get their money back) reminding them that the object is no-trans. Very user friendly and you can then tell the customer they should have read the pop-up warning. See the script below as an example.
    2. I can't imagine a weapons manufacturer in SL wanting to restrict use of their products. Restrictions result in fewer products sold.
    3. How would you detect the flowers? Sensors cannot detect attachments.
-- Strife Onizuka 12:22, 8 July 2007 (PDT)
//A simple quick and dirty vendor that asks the user before finalizing the sale.
//Written by Strife Onizuka
integer price;
string item;
 
list channels;
list users;//[ handle, time, user, amount, item]
 
default
{
    state_entry()
    {
        llSetPayPrice(PAY_HIDE, [PAY_HIDE,PAY_HIDE,PAY_HIDE,PAY_HIDE]);
        llRequestPermissions(llGetOwner(), PERMISSION_DEBIT);
    }
    run_time_permissions(integer p)
    {
        if(p & PERMISSION_DEBIT)
            state Money;
    }
}
 
state Money
{
    state_entry()
    {
        llSetPayPrice(PAY_HIDE, [price,PAY_HIDE,PAY_HIDE,PAY_HIDE]);
    }
    on_rez(integer a)
    {
        state default;
    }
    touch_start(integer a)
    {
        string msg = item+"\nThe cost is: "+(string)price+"\nIt's permissions are:\n";
        string end;
        if(perms & PERM_TRANSFER)   end += "Transfer\n";    else    msg += "NO-TRANSFER\n";
        if(perms & PERM_COPY)       end += "Copy\n";        else    msg += "NO-COPY\n";
        if(perms & PERM_MODIFY)     end += "Modify\n";      else    msg += "NO-MODIFY\n";
        llDialog(llDetectedKey(0),  msg + end, [], -1);
    }
    money(key user, integer amount)
    {
        if(amount == price)
        {
            integer chan;
            do chan = (integer)llFrand(-2147483648.0);while(~llListFindList(channels, (list)chan));
            integer handle = llListen(chan, "", user, "");
            integer perms = llGetInventoryPermMask(item, MASK_NEXT);
            string msg = "Do you really want to buy this?\nIt's permissions are:\n";
            string end;
            if(perms & PERM_TRANSFER)   end += "Transfer\n";    else    msg += "NO-TRANSFER\n";
            if(perms & PERM_COPY)       end += "Copy\n";        else    msg += "NO-COPY\n";
            if(perms & PERM_MODIFY)     end += "Modify\n";      else    msg += "NO-MODIFY\n";
            if(llGetListLength(channels) > 50)
            {
                llGiveMoney(llList2Key(users, 2), llList2Integer(users, 3));
                users = llDeleteSubList(users, 0, 4);
                channels = llDeleteSubList(channels, 0, 0);
                //TODO: appologize for overcrowding
            }
            channels += chan;
            users += [llGetUnixTime() - 1167627600 + 120, handle, user, amount, item];
            llDialog(user,  msg + end, ["Buy", "Refund"], chan);
        }
        else
        {
            llGiveMoney(user, amount);
            //TODO: appologize for the ammount being wrong
        }
    }
    listen(integer chan, string name, key user, string message)
    {
        if(0 <= (chan = llListFindList(channels, (list)chan)))
        {
            channels = llDeleteSubList(channels, chan, chan);
            chan *= 5;
            if(message == "Buy")
            {
                llGiveInventory(user, llList2String(users, chan + 4));
                //TODO: thank user for purchasing
            }
            else
            {
                llGiveMoney(user, llList2Integer(users, chan + 3));
                //TODO: appologize
            }
 
            llListenRemove(llList2Integer(users, chan));
            users = llDeleteSubList(users, chan, chan + 4);
        }
    }
    timer()
    {
        integer t = llGetUnixTime() - 1167627600;
        integer b = 0;
        while(t > llList2Float(users, b))
        {
            llListenRemove(llList2Integer(users, b + 1));
            llGiveMoney(llList2Key(users, b + 2), llList2Integer(users, b + 3));
            //TODO: add time-out message
            b += 5;
        }
        if(b)
        {
            users = llDeleteSubList(users, 0, b - 1);
            channels = llDeleteSubList(channels, 0, (b / 5) - 1);
        }
    }
}

Solutions

Anylyn, for LL to reveal the user's RL information, including gender, would violate privacy policies and privacy laws unless the user gives consent. I can appreciate your "concern" for males buying female items, thinking they can give it to a female companion. However, anyone who's been in SL for any length of time understands the implications of No Transfer; so long as you make the permissions clear, there is no real problem. The problem you really want to solve – banning RL men from your land – simply isn't going to happen, for reasons of the privacy policies above. Not only that, but it totally goes against the spirit of SL. Second Life is just that – a second life that can be shaped and created and designed according to the person's desires. In SL a person can be whomever and whatever they desire. And they can change that as often as they wish! That freedom, so sorely lacking in RL*, is what makes SL special. Stop focusing on body appendages, and start looking at the person behind them.

Now, avatar gender is another matter. In one of the numerous threads on the subject in the Scripting forum, Milambus Oh suggested a project to develop a protocol for communicating gender and other personal information. I liked the idea, and so developed DataBot and the corresponding Developer Kit. It allows residents to provide extended information about their avatar, including (but not limited to) gender. And of course, in the spirit of SL, it can be changed at will. It is a fundamental right in SL for people to present themselves as they choose – a right which I'm sure you benefit from. Learn to accept people for what they themselves choose to be. Siann Beck 06:41, 2 October 2007 (PDT)

* I've submitted a feature request to GL (God Labs), but no luck yet :)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Siann Beck

Neutral solution

An option to disable avatar gender into the viewer and an option that return the current sex of the actually used shape. This will enable custom sit position/animation that lots of item needs (should I prompt boy/boy boy/girl or girl/girl positions ?) and gender specific text on object.

integer llGetGender(key avatar): - 0 none/hidden/neutral - 1 actualy wearing a female shape - 2 actualy wearing a male shape

Of course it's limited to avatar on the current sim, no way to get gender on offline avatar.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Emeline Magic

It's a good idea but it doesn't stop people from using that information against the user. -- Strife (talk|contribs) 19:18, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Politics of Second Life

Yay! Politics! First of all Strife Onizuka and the others claiming that "this information may be used for gender discrimination" are simply wrong on several levels:

First, and foremost, Strife Onizuka is confusing the user with the avatar itself. The user is a legal entity. The avatar itself, is not a legal entity but rather an expression of the user's desires. More than that, the avatar itself may change sexes at will which defies any incentive of "discrimination" in the first place. There is no permanently enforced link between the avatar's sex and the user's sex. If you are asked in Second Life, what your sex is, the question may be answered in the context of Second Life or in the context of your real life. That is up to you but exposing the avatar's sex through LSL will not infringe the privacy or integrity of the user.

Unless you would like to organize a set of Second Life-laws and perhaps elect a Second Life parliament, Second Life senate and Second Life president, your argument does not hold in the context of Second Life.

Second, you should be aware by now that avatar height is currently being used to "discriminate" and ban people from SIMs. The average Indian male height is 1.645 m (5 ft 5 in) and the average Indian female height is 1.520 m (5 ft 0 in) - from Wikipedia. Given the fact that I cannot even lower an avatar's height to that value and may be banned from SIMs even if I manage to, I follow your reasoning and push forward the argument that avatar height is symmetrical to your argument, a racial discrimination. I am looking forward for you to fix that problem in case "discrimination" is your concern.

Lastly, just as you have group-inviter bots, you can have gender-detecting bots. In fact, the openmetaverse API exposes a bunch of information about an avatar on which further political debates of this nature may be based on in the future. Good luck with that.

Kira Komarov 03:45, 22 November 2011 (PST)

You can already do this with RLV, but few people bother

@getdebug_AvatarSex has been available to scripters using the RLV api for ages.

However, I've never found a practical use for it. There's lots of things I've thought I could do with it, but when I've come to implement my bright ideas, I've always run into unforeseen difficulties by relying on the gender someone's viewer reports for his or her avatar, and I don't, in fact, think I've ever seen anything that uses it successfully. Innula Zenovka 07:22, 22 November 2011 (PST)

Discussão:llGetGender - PTBR

Soluções - PTBR

Anylyn, para LL revelar as informações do usuário RL, incluindo sexo, possa violar políticas de privacidade e leis de privacidade, a menos que o usuário dá o seu consentimento. Eu posso apreciar a sua "preocupação" para o sexo masculino a compra de itens femininos, pensando que pode dá-la a um companheiro do sexo feminino. No entanto, quem esteve no SL por qualquer período de tempo compreende as implicações da não transferência, desde que você faça as permissões claro, não há nenhum problema real. O problema é que você quer muito resolver - que proíbe os homens RL da vossa terra - simplesmente não vai acontecer, por razões de as políticas de privacidade acima. Não só isso, mas é totalmente vai contra o espírito do SL. O Second Life é apenas isso - uma segunda vida que pode ser moldado e criado e concebido de acordo com os desejos da pessoa.No SL uma pessoa pode ser quem ou oque elas desejam.E eles podem mudar isso quantas vezes desejar! Que a liberdade, por isso muita falta no * RL, é o que faz SL especial. Pare de se concentrar em apêndices do corpo, e começar a olhar para a pessoa por trás deles.

Agora, o gênero avatar é outra questão.Em um dos tópicos diversos sobre o assunto no fórum de scripts, Milambus Oh [1] sugeriu um projeto para desenvolver um protocolo para a comunicação de gênero e outras informações pessoais. Eu gostei da idéia, e assim desenvolvidos [2]DataBot e os correspondentes name = Marketplace & file = item & Itemid = Developer Kit 357744. Ele permite que residentes de fornecer informação alargada sobre o seu avatar, incluindo (mas não limitado a) de gênero.E, claro, no espírito do SL, ele pode ser alterado à vontade.É um direito fundamental no SL para que as pessoas se apresentem como eles escolherem - é um direito que eu tenho certeza que você irá se beneficiar. Aprender a aceitar as pessoas por aquilo que eles próprios escolhem ser. Siann Beck 06:41, 2 Outubro 2007 (PDT)

* Eu enviei uma solicitação de recurso para DL (Deus Labs), mas sem sorte ainda:) 

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Siann Beck

Discussão:llGetGender

Política do Second Life

Yay! Política! Primeiro de tudo Strife Onizuka e os outros alegando que "esta informação pode ser utilizada para a discriminação de gênero" são simplesmente erradas em vários níveis:

Primeiro, e acima de tudo, Strife Onizuka é confundir o usuário com o avatar em si. O usuário é entidade legal.O avatar em si, não é uma entidade legal, mas sim uma expressão de desejos do usuário. Mais do que isso, o avatar em si pode mudar de sexo à vontade que desafia qualquer incentivo de "discriminação" em primeiro lugar. Não há ligação permanente imposta entre o sexo do avatar e sexo do usuário. Se você for solicitado no Second Life, qual é o seu sexo, a pergunta pode ser respondida no contexto do Second Life ou no contexto de sua vida real. Que é até você, mas expondo o sexo do avatar através de scripts não infringe a privacidade ou integridade do usuário.

A menos que você gostaria de organizar um conjunto de Second Life, leis e talvez eleger um parlamento no Second Life, Senado de Second Life e o presidente do Second Life, seu argumento não se sustenta no contexto do Second Life.

Segundo, você deve estar ciente até agora que altura avatar está sendo usado para "discriminar" e as pessoas proibição em lands. A altura média indiana sexo masculino é de 1,645 m (5 pés 5) e a altura indiano médio feminino é de 1,520 m (5 ft 0 in) - a partir de Wikipedia. Dado o fato de que eu não posso ainda menor a altura de um avatar para esse valor e pode ser proibido em lands, mesmo se eu conseguir, eu sigo o seu raciocínio e fazer avançar o argumento de que altura avatar é simétrico ao seu argumento, a discriminação racial. Estou ansioso para que você possa corrigir esse problema em "discriminação" caso seja sua preocupação.

Por último, assim como você tem grupo inviter-bots, você pode bots para detectar sexo. Na verdade, o # T_OpenMetaverse_Avatar.htm openmetaverse API expõe um monte de informações sobre um avatar em que mais debates políticos desta natureza pode ser baseado em no futuro. Boa sorte com isso.

Kira Komarov 03:45, 22 de novembro de 2011 (PST)

Solução neutra - PTBR

Solução neutra

Uma opção para desabilitar gênero do avatar no viewer e uma opção que o retorno do sexo atual de forma realmente utilizados. Isto irá permitir que posição se sentar custom / animação que muitas das necessidades item (devo prompt de menino / menino menino / menina ou uma menina / moça posições?) E texto de gênero específico sobre o objeto.

integer llGetGender(key avatar): - Nenhum 0 / hidden / neutro - 1 realmente vestindo uma figura feminina - 2 realmente vestindo uma forma masculina

É claro que é limitado a avatar no sim atual, nenhuma maneira de obter sexo no avatar offline.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Emeline Magic

É uma boa idéia, mas não impede as pessoas de usar essas informações contra o usuário. - Strife ( fale | contribs )</ pequena > </ sup> 19:18, 12 de Abril de 2009 (UTC)

Scripted Agent (Bot) Solution

A script that uses RLV and worn by an avatar can get the gender of the avatar wearing the script. A scripted agent (bot) solution exists called Corrade Corrade API that can get the gender of other avatars (along with many other parameters). An example script can be found on the detect avatar shape gender example page. The bot is developed by Wizardry and Steamworks and licensed under GNU/GPLv3.

Ectogram Resident 15:27, 27 August 2014 (PDT)