User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 02 26

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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[10:53] Aybabtu Aabye: not a stalker i swear :)
[10:53] Andrew Linden: no worries
[10:53] Andrew Linden: have a seat
[10:54] Aybabtu Aabye: some friends told me i should stop complaining and see whats what
[10:54] Creem Pye: have a good vacation, andrew?
[10:54] Aybabtu Aabye: want me to wait a bit, for the hour to start and folks to jump in?
[10:54] Andrew Linden: Hi Creem. yeah it was pretty good. But glad to be back
[10:55] Creem Pye: good to hear =)
[10:55] Andrew Linden: How did the office hours go while I was out?
[10:56] Andrew Linden: I wonder if they saved the transcripts
[10:56] Creem Pye: hmm I went to Tuesday's but I missed thursday
[10:56] Creem Pye: I don't think Sidewinder or Simon have a wiki page for that
[10:56] Creem Pye: but I kinda hope somebody has a transcript of Thursday's meeting
[10:56] Creem Pye: ah maybe on tuesday we talked about llPushObject a bit
[10:57] Andrew Linden: Do you ever actually read the transcripts?
[10:57] Creem Pye: and how lateral pushing on avatars is very limited
[10:57] Creem Pye: I did, a few weeks ago
[10:57] Creem Pye: it's especially good if people are voting on stuff
[10:57] Andrew Linden: I think Kelly fixed some of the llPushObject() on avatars problem
[10:58] Aybabtu Aabye: are transcripts from these sessions linked somewhere off the website, id like to read some if its open to us
[10:58] Creem Pye: I guess the server version hasnt' been updated in a few weeks
[10:58] Andrew Linden: No we were supposed to update last week, but there was a blocker
[10:58] Andrew Linden: it is now ready, and deployed to the Preview I think
[10:59] Andrew Linden: but it is waiting for deployment to the main SL grid for some network/operations maintenance going on
[10:59] Creem Pye: ah cool
[11:00] Creem Pye: hey gaius, I guess your sim is transferring over today?
[11:00] Gaius Goodliffe: You're guess is as good as mine. :p
[11:00] Gaius Goodliffe: *your
[11:00] Andrew Linden: "transfering over"? In what context?
[11:00] Creem Pye: to another owner
[11:00] Andrew Linden: ah
[11:01] Gaius Goodliffe: Which won't be as dramatic as the subsequent conversion to openspaces.
[11:01] Brandon Catteneo: greetings all
[11:01] Creem Pye: hello
[11:01] Aybabtu Aabye: howdy
[11:01] Creem Pye: openspaces?
[11:02] Andrew Linden: Hello, have a seat.
[11:02] Gaius Goodliffe: Yup.
[11:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[11:02] Aybabtu Aabye: being my first time, whats the format of this session? do you have a list of topics you want to discuss, or do we bring up things, or something like that?
[11:02] Gaius Goodliffe: There will then be a lot more room for flying. :)
[11:03] Andrew Linden: The format is usually: (1) I make some announcements and give a summary of where the Havok4 project is internally
[11:04] Hydra Shaftoe: what an awesome sim name. Star Control 2
[11:04] Andrew Linden: (2) If I have any topics to bring up I throw them out in the beginning, or as they occur to me
[11:04] Andrew Linden: (3) otherwise the table is open topic
[11:04] Aybabtu Aabye: ok thank you
[11:04] Gaius Goodliffe: (4) ??? (5) Profit! ;)
[11:04] Andrew Linden: (4) I usually try to reiterate important announcements at the end in case anyone showed up late
[11:05] Andrew Linden: So we might as well get started, looks like we have enough people
[11:05] Andrew Linden: I think the Preview was updated yetsterday with a new version of server
[11:05] Andrew Linden: however it has not yet been deployed to the main SL grid
[11:05] Andrew Linden: pending some operations/network maintenance that is going on this week
[11:05] Andrew Linden: so the hope is that it would get out Thursday
[11:06] Andrew Linden: That release is already more than a week old, so there have been a few bugs fixed since then
[11:06] Python Morales: oops sorry, i don't know what's happening
[11:07] Andrew Linden: Kelly Linden and I were wondering if we could release an even more up to date server by the end of the week
[11:07] Andrew Linden: but probably not, unless he and I fixed some important bugs today or something
[11:07] Andrew Linden: it takes a while to test, and blockers might show up in the tests
[11:07] Creem Pye: I see that the new vehicle speedlimit is in effect for this preview - cool beans
[11:07] Andrew Linden: yeah, but I was just looking at vehicles this morning...
[11:08] Andrew Linden: and it appears that there is a lot of work to do, but I'm rather pesimistic about figuring out how to fix things... we'll see
[11:09] Andrew Linden: As I mentioned before in other office hours, we're getting pressure to actually finish the Havok4 project
[11:09] Andrew Linden: and deploy to all regions to reduce the crash rates
[11:09] Andrew Linden: Which means we need to identify all the bugs that would absolutely prevent us from deploying it, and fix them
[11:10] Andrew Linden: internally we're labeling all such blocker bugs as "critical" or higher
[11:10] Andrew Linden: and we only have... 8 blockers on the list at the moment
[11:11] Andrew Linden: it may be that some "major" bugs will be upgraded to critical... all the devs, and testers get to input here
[11:11] Andrew Linden: this is on the *internal" bug list
[11:11] Andrew Linden: we import some bugs from the public bug list
[11:11] Andrew Linden: anyway, the current "critical" list is:
[11:11] Andrew Linden: (1) a crash mode related to selecting lots of stuff
[11:12] Andrew Linden: (2) an avatar floats up bug
[11:12] Andrew Linden: (3) jerkey rotation motion on bobbing boats (hrm... not sure that should be critical)
[11:13] Andrew Linden: (4) low friciton for llSetStatus(STATUS_ROTATE_Y, FALSE) objects (not sure that should be critical either, but we'll investigate)
[11:13] Andrew Linden: (5) memory bloat in Havok4 regions kills other simulators on same host
[11:14] Andrew Linden: (6) llSitTarget's are offset
[11:14] Andrew Linden: (7) ground vehicle problems
[11:14] Andrew Linden: (8) SVC-1392 temp on rez setting is blitzed when two avatars sit on an object
[11:15] Andrew Linden: so... that is all the "critical" bugs we've elevated so far
[11:15] Andrew Linden: if you know of a bug you consider a blocker for declaring Havok4 done, you should mention it here
[11:16] Andrew Linden: and maybe even plead your case to Sidewinder
[11:16] Aybabtu Aabye: is there a break down of the ground vehicle problems, so i dont repeat something already in that?
[11:16] Andrew Linden: That is, you can plead your case to anyone on the project: Andrew, Kelly, Simon, Sidewinder, and Dan Linden
[11:17] Hydra Shaftoe: ok. not sure if this is one, but is there any mention of a bug relating to having havoc 4 on a sim, and the sim periodically spitting out bad packets which cause a meltdown on an internet connection? I've only seen this happen in havoc sims
[11:17] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I broke down the ground vehicle problems in SVC-832 internally...
[11:17] Hydra Shaftoe: dunno if there's a relation
[11:17] Andrew Linden: I rated the "bounce on prim seams" to critical and the motor speed problems to major
[11:17] Yuu Nakamichi: is there a pjira for (3)?
[11:17] Andrew Linden: however, those problems are related
[11:17] Andrew Linden: and I'll fix the motor rates if possible
[11:18] Andrew Linden: No, (3) was something that Dan Linden found when debugging. It is totally internal
[11:18] Andrew Linden: as far as we know there is no content affected
[11:18] Python Morales: 'bobbing boats' sounded fun enough
[11:18] Aybabtu Aabye: on the prim seams, ive noticed the same problem appears between seams, the effect looks identical
[11:18] Andrew Linden: Havok4 periodically spitting out bad packets. No, I haven't heard of that one.
[11:19] Creem Pye: regarding (6), it's my understanding that in H1, sit targets are offset a bit by the avatar size - is the difference between H1 and H4 that H4 doesn't add this extra offset?
[11:19] Brandon Catteneo: I have have been doing some testing with various flight assists... thisgoes back to JIRA issue SVC-1582... I have found that wearing >1 flight assist gives me the "float up" problem, but all the FAs I've tried float DOWN ~1m/s... in any case no hovering means severe problems for builders, obviously
[11:19] Andrew Linden: that may be the case Creem, for avatar sit offsets. I'd have to look at the code.
[11:20] Gaius Goodliffe: I wonder if the flight assist issues aren't related to the general non-workingness of buoyancy.
[11:20] Aybabtu Aabye: the increased friction is part of the ground vehicle list?
[11:20] Andrew Linden: we thought flight assist was fixed
[11:21] Creem Pye: /in some of my stuff, if you do a sit target at a certain position, then change the avatar's position with llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() to the same value, the avatar's actual position is off by 30cm or so
[11:21] Andrew Linden: Perhaps you could write up a recipe for reproducing the flight assist problem so we can debug it
[11:21] Brandon Catteneo: Well I was doing this testing today, and I tried MystiTool and Tera Speedspork (among others), I also tried it in this sim a few mins ago, same prob.
[11:22] Andrew Linden: Also, have you tried it on the latest server? I think it is deployed to the Preview grid.
[11:22] Andrew Linden: Is it MystiTool by itself? Or does it require two flight assists to break?
[11:22] Brandon Catteneo: I'll try that, any sim on the Beta Grid?
[11:22] Brandon Catteneo: MT by itself will float down
[11:23] Aybabtu Aabye: in addition to the friction increase, i noticed that most of the dampening in the vehicle library functions seems weakened
[11:23] Andrew Linden: any Havok4 sim on Preview. I'm not totally sure of when the last flight assist bugs were committed to the codebase
[11:23] Tao Takashi: Hi
[11:23] Andrew Linden: yes, Aybabtu, that was what I was talking about when referring to the motor strengths of vehicles
[11:23] Gaius Goodliffe: I know there was a fix pushed a week or two ago that greatly improved things, but it's still not quite right.
[11:24] Brandon Catteneo: Well I'll do a comprehensive test, and doc everything ... wh should I send it to?
[11:24] Aybabtu Aabye: not seems, is, especially the angular deflectors
[11:24] Aybabtu Aabye: ah ok
[11:25] Andrew Linden: Brandon, if you have a copy of a broken flight assist, just give me a copy now and explain how it fails
[11:25] Creem Pye: I just tried Flight Feather in Balance. I hover stably, but when my avatar's flying I lose altitude at about 25cm/s
[11:25] Creem Pye: (I don't remember if that's different than H1 though)
[11:25] Rex Cronon: somebody doing physical experiments right now? because it just crashed me
[11:25] Andrew Linden: at what altitude Creem?
[11:25] Creem Pye: 270m
[11:25] Brandon Catteneo: You mean the pobject? None of them are XFer
[11:25] Brandon Catteneo: (well execpt Speedspork, that's no copy)
[11:26] Creem Pye gave you Flight Feather 1.2.
[11:26] Brandon Catteneo: I can give you a notecard with a full explanation, that would probably be more efficient
[11:26] Andrew Linden: if you have a no-transfer object you can rez it here, unattached and I can take a copy via admin tools
[11:27] Brandon Catteneo: oh, ok
[11:27] AlexanderThe Benelli: Hi @ all
[11:27] Les White: hiyas
[11:27] Rex Cronon: h alex
[11:27] Creem Pye: oops I'm no longer losing altitude while flying
[11:28] Andrew Linden: ok, I've got a copy of the speed spork
[11:28] Gaius Goodliffe: I *sometimes* lose altitude, seemingly dependent on how quickly I start moving forward after I start flying (as noted here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1503)
[11:28] Andrew Linden: and the MystiTool hud
[11:29] Brandon Catteneo: You can del/return the HUD or whatever
[11:29] Creem Pye: ah yes gaius, now that I read your description it's the same
[11:29] Gaius Goodliffe nods.
[11:30] Creem Pye: out of curiousity, are those bobbing boats using llRotLookAt(), or a vehicle's vertical attractor?
[11:30] Brandon Catteneo: Darling Brody says she was having with her FA in her products - that's JIRA SVC-1582
[11:31] Brandon Catteneo: (but not sure it's the same prob)
[11:31] Andrew Linden: hang on...
[11:32] Andrew Linden: go ahead and chat... I'm busy IRL for a minute
[11:33] Aybabtu Aabye: sure got quiet, i think i hear crickets
[11:33] Aybabtu Aabye: andrew, id like to get some lindens to check out ground vehicles on terrain only tracks, when looking to see whats changed in H4, is that possible?
[11:33] Les White: im a little out of touch, anyone bring up sculpt mass on h4 or NO_MOTOR_UP vehicle flag not working?
[11:34] Squirrel Wood: Sim Owners and Estate Managers will find https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1134 useful ^^ (not H4 related)
[11:34] Yuu Nakamichi: les: no
[11:34] Creem Pye: Andrew mentioned ground vehicle problems listed in SVC-832
[11:35] Andrew Linden: ok I'm back
[11:35] Andrew Linden: Mark Linden had some questions about asset system garbage collection.
[11:36] Andrew Linden: Aybabtu, terrain only tracks for vehicles....
[11:36] AlexanderThe Benelli: argh...stupid "vista programms open IE instead of firefox" bug
[11:36] Andrew Linden: that is related to the general ground vehicle problems
[11:37] Andrew Linden: and is mostly caused by differences in how Havok4 handles collisions and computes the recoil of such
[11:37] Andrew Linden: this is what I'm starting to work on today, again
[11:38] AlexanderThe Benelli: squirrel, uve got my vote for this issue (estate autoreturn)
[11:38] Andrew Linden: Why don't we punt all ground vehicle problems discussion to Thursday or next week. I'll know more about any possible solutions then.
[11:38] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[11:38] Aybabtu Aabye: okie doke
[11:38] Andrew Linden: What is the "estate autoreturn issue"? Is it a Havok4 bug?
[11:39] Andrew Linden: Oh, I see it.
[11:39] Rex Cronon: andrew u mentioned this :(6) llSitTarget's are offset
[11:39] Rex Cronon: i am not sure what the problem with that is
[11:39] Andrew Linden: Sorry Squirrel, at the moment I'm totally booked on Havok4. I can opine about other bugs, but am not going to work on them.
[11:40] Rex Cronon: i crashed right afeter u listed the 8 main bugs, so u might have already talked about it
[11:40] Andrew Linden: sorry Rex, (6) is SVC-1299
[11:40] Squirrel Wood: its not a bug but a feautre request and not H4 related as I wrote.
[11:40] Rex Cronon: thank you
[11:41] Andrew Linden: ok, so that is all I had to announce. The table is open.
[11:41] Andrew Linden looks up SVC-1134
[11:41] Les White: any chance of getting llSetMass ? i find some sculpt prims (vehicle related) have upto 20 times more mass
[11:41] Rex Cronon: did u find out what cause push to work only on avatars that move horizontally?
[11:42] Andrew Linden: Kelly Linden fixed a bug related to some llPushObject() problems where the object was trying to push waaaaay too hard
[11:42] Andrew Linden: however, I think llPushObject() is still less effective at pushing a standing avatar sideways
[11:42] AlexanderThe Benelli: @SVC-1134: any function, not even linked to ban, which returns ALL objects (unscripted ones as well) of a user, would be good,too
[11:43] Andrew Linden: Alexander, that function already exists for LL admins. So I would guess that it wouldn't be too hard to enable for estate managers.
[11:43] Python Morales: alexander, is there some way already .. right
[11:43] Rex Cronon: if av doesn't move horizontally a vertical/horizontal push won't push
[11:44] Squirrel Wood: hmm
[11:44] Andrew Linden: So, I don't see any reason why it couldn't be implemented, on a technical basis.
[11:44] Squirrel Wood: I will have to test my roller coaster...
[11:44] AlexanderThe Benelli: @Phyton;really?
[11:44] GNuttah Jonson: tune!!
[11:44] Creem Pye: by the way, is there a chance that SVC-22 can be fixed in H4? (vehicles hitting ban lines behaving badly)
[11:44] AlexanderThe Benelli: ahh.."for lindes"...yes..nice....
[11:45] Python Morales: Alexander, was just referring to what Andew said there
[11:45] AlexanderThe Benelli: is there a jira# for this function/feature request?
[11:45] Andrew Linden: Creem, can't fix SVC-22 before we release Havok4. Trying to stay focused
[11:45] Gaius Goodliffe: :p There's an easy fix for that -- disable ban lines. ;)
[11:45] AlexanderThe Benelli: (just saw it, thought u meant for normal users,too)
[11:45] Creem Pye: hehe so far i've been going with the alternative of not using vehicles on mainland =P
[11:46] Gaius Goodliffe: There's still a mainland? ;)
[11:46] Arawn Spitteler: They're called Access Lines, when they're meant to grief the neighborhood.
[11:46] xArawn: Sie werden Anschluleitungen genannt, wenn sie zum Leid die
Nachbarschaft bedeutet werden.
[11:46] Squirrel Wood: What about... no object entry? H4 objects still seem to be able to ignore that setting..
[11:46] AlexanderThe Benelli: lol....that was a funny translation...rofl
[11:47] Andrew Linden: Squrrel, what is the "no object entry" problem in Havok4?
[11:47] Squirrel Wood: We saw it in a recent griefer attack where objects in one sim were able to penetrate into another sim where no object entry was set
[11:47] Les White: you become removed from teh vehicle and locked in the animation control with no means of release other then relog...in H1
[11:48] Squirrel Wood: both were H4 sims as far as I recall
[11:48] Creem Pye: actually sometimes you can escape by rezzing another vehicle and sitting in it, but it's still terrible
[11:48] Andrew Linden: ok, so it was a "parcel permissions not obeyed on region crossing" bug
[11:49] Squirrel Wood: I can't say if its only sim borders... will have to test that
[11:49] Les White: are we happy with sculpt mass on h4 andrew? seems really heavy in most cases
[11:49] Andrew Linden: well, if you figure out how to reproduce it, and it isn't also a problem in Havok4, then go ahead and file it as a Havok4 bug
[11:50] Squirrel Wood: kk
[11:50] Andrew Linden: er... also a problem in Havok1
[11:50] Brandon Catteneo: /go to 250
[11:51] Brandon Catteneo: /go to 50
[11:51] Creem Pye: would it be too difficult to calculate sculpt mass based off the visible volume?
[11:52] Andrew Linden: I'm going to try to make a pass of the Havok4 public jira bug list today or tomorrow to see if we're missing any
[11:52] Andrew Linden: internlly
[11:52] Andrew Linden: and to try to close any dupes and old bugs
[11:52] Squirrel Wood: Keep up the good work! :)
[11:52] Les White: i'm trying to equalize cars to 120 units of mass. when i bring some over to h4 for testing they read 2500 units. with only 3 sculpts max allowed in the cars
[11:53] Python Morales: Creem, i guess not
[11:53] Andrew Linden: the public jira list is pretty big and takes multiple passes
[11:53] Andrew Linden: 2500 mass units?
[11:53] Les White: yes
[11:54] Andrew Linden: sculpties are special cases... they don't collide anything like their shape, in general
[11:54] Brandon Catteneo: /go to 45
[11:54] Andrew Linden: sculpties collide like convex hulls of tori, in havok4, normal tori in Havok1
[11:55] Andrew Linden: we don't yet have the capability to represent sculpties correctly in the physics engine
[11:55] Andrew Linden: if you're really trimming your mass... best to use sculpties sparingly
[11:55] Brandon Catteneo: /land
[11:55] Les White: right, not worried about the collision mask, just the mass
[11:55] Rex Cronon: so sculpties are 20 times heavier in h4?
[11:55] Les White: some are...
[11:56] Andrew Linden: I wouldn't expect that to be the case, but I'll check the sculptie mass discrepancy
[11:56] fr43k Paine: Finally all has rezed^^ . Hi eeveryone :-)
[11:56] Creem Pye: Hmmm I have a sculpt-heavy airplane that registers as 400LG in both H1 and H4 - do you have any idea which prims are causing the most mass increase?
[11:56] Les White: that car has 2 sculpts. h1 mass = 120, h4 mass = 2500 or so
[11:56] Rex Cronon: hi
[11:56] AlexanderThe Benelli: hi fr43k *g*
[11:56] fr43k Paine: Hi Alex^^
[11:56] Andrew Linden: if there is a giant mass discrepancy for sculpties then I'll try to fix it
[11:56] Brandon Catteneo: I was hoping I could show you the float down effect via the HUD on the table but there are too many people here for it to list.... maybe at the end of the meeting
[11:57] Les White: ok. i'll do some testing and get better data and write it up
[11:57] Les White: it's really going to mess up my open car series
[11:57] Creem Pye: maybe it's that big chassis sculpt, but it should still have teh same mass as a sphere of the same scale, right?
[11:57] Arawn Spitteler can't find a work-around for llGetLinkMass(integer)
[11:58] Andrew Linden: well, we now compute all of the mass properties ourselves (I'm particularly proud of that code). Per-prim density is now possible, in theory, so while we can't open that up to the UI yet, I can make some special case handling for sculpties to minimize the damage in the H1 --> H4 transition
[11:58] AlexanderThe Benelli: nice car *g*
[11:59] Les White: sounds good andrew. i'll test some more things and get something on jira for you
[11:59] Andrew Linden: What do you mean by the llGetLinkMass(integer) comment Arawn?
[12:00] Squirrel Wood: hmm..
[12:00] Squirrel Wood: hmm... when I select a single prim I can set its material. When I select an object or multiple prims I cannot... would this be a bug? or intended behavior?
[12:00] AlexanderThe Benelli: I think its a "neverthoughtaboutit" feature :P
[12:01] Andrew Linden: Oh, via the UI you mean Squirrel. I think the UI is just braindead there
[12:01] Squirrel Wood: okay
[12:01] Squirrel Wood: That means I will file a jira on it if there is none
[12:01] Andrew Linden: it may be that ALL of the edit options were disabled, when only a few should be, for multi-select
[12:01] AlexanderThe Benelli: Being able to edit object properties in multiples prims would be greeaaat (via UI i mean)
[12:01] Gaius Goodliffe: Actually, I believe that *used* to work, but stopped working like a year and a half ago or something like that. I could swear it worked when I first starting building things like two years ago.
[12:01] Arawn Spitteler: My Teeter Totter doesn't work well, when two people weigh differently. I don't know how to weigh them, but there should be a way.
[12:02] fr43k Paine nods
[12:02] Andrew Linden: llGetMass() on an attachment returns the mass of the avatar? or the attachment?
[12:02] AlexanderThe Benelli: @squireel:u file a jira for that?
[12:02] Andrew Linden: I thought it wa the avatar, but am not sure.
[12:02] Les White: mass of all
[12:02] Les White: av + all linked stuffs
[12:02] Arawn Spitteler: Attachmennt? Attachments have no mass.
[12:02] Squirrel Wood: I'll look it up on jira and if there's nothing I'll file it
[12:02] AlexanderThe Benelli: on h1 u can do a scale for avs
[12:03] Creem Pye: llGetObjectMass(llGetOwner()) always works I think
[12:03] Andrew Linden: attachments have no collision body, but they now know their mass in Havok4
[12:03] AlexanderThe Benelli: nice...ah...btw...andrew..i once asked if there will be a "physics specification" thing..will there?
[12:03] Arawn Spitteler: Will my Uthgolian now outweigh a woman?
[12:03] Andrew Linden: Ok, well I'm going to end this hour now. I think someone wanted to show me a flight assist that wasn't working right?
[12:04] Brandon Catteneo: yeah I can show you
[12:04] Aybabtu Aabye: is the llGetAccel() disabled in H4? seems broke in H1 and disabled in H4.
[12:04] Jacon Cortes: I had a quick question on architecture
[12:04] Andrew Linden: Uh... AlexanderTheBenelli... "physics specification"? Could you elaborate?
[12:04] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-815 - cannot change material on link sets
[12:04] Andrew Linden: llGetAccel() may be broken... it only returned GRAVITY for Havok1 right?
[12:05] Aybabtu Aabye: sort of, it came back with llGetForce()/llGetMass() + gravity
[12:05] AlexanderThe Benelli: mh.... things like "yes, attachment have a mass" or "no, there is no gravity in h4" (just joking) ,thigns like the max, lfight height without help form scripts, all that stuff
[12:05] Andrew Linden: in Havok4 we now actaully measure the object's effective acceleration for internal purposes
[12:06] Brandon Catteneo: I have to fly to at least 45m or so (not sure the exact cutoff).. if you can track my position you can see me float down *slowly
[12:06] Andrew Linden: oh right... the constant force stuff... I think I changed that to be impulse based in the implementation details
[12:07] AlexanderThe Benelli: Things like gravity may be common sense....but when its coming to things like "does h4 have aif friction", its not really straightforward to find out
[12:07] Andrew Linden: Ok, well as long as there are still questions I'll stick around a bit longer.
[12:07] Andrew Linden: Brandon, if you can wait we'll look at it in a bit.
[12:07] Brandon Catteneo: sure np
[12:07] AlexanderThe Benelli: *aif friction =>air resistance
[12:07] Andrew Linden: Jacon, you had an architecture question? Please state it.
[12:07] Arawn Spitteler: One question, I'v ebeen musing, is whether a single physical object with three passengers is one physical calculation, or one large physical calculation.
[12:08] Jacon Cortes: yes...well..we had a copy of the texas capitol building built
[12:08] Aybabtu Aabye: is it possible to get the formula for friction? so we can counteract it exactly or in constant proportion?
[12:08] Jacon Cortes: i had read....that sl was intrested in quality builds
[12:08] Andrew Linden: No Aybabtu, it isn't "friction" so much as the micro-physics of how collisions are handled.
[12:08] Jacon Cortes: i emailed....an address from the blog..but never heard anything back
[12:08] Andrew Linden: I don't even have that info. it is proprietary Havok4 libs stuff
[12:09] Jacon Cortes: we have other historica buildings on there as well...but just wondered who in Linden handled such things
[12:09] Squirrel Wood: Jacon, you are probably not the only one who wants in on that ^^
[12:09] Andrew Linden: Oh, like "architecture buildings" question, not architecture of SL question, Jacon.
[12:09] Aybabtu Aabye: gotcha, ive tried to reverse engineer some of it, but havent got it exact
[12:09] Jacon Cortes: ah
[12:09] Les White: steve and blue linden i think
[12:09] Andrew Linden: I don't know much about any project where were were searching for quality content. I'm just a dev and have been rather "heads down" in my own project.
[12:10] Andrew Linden: Best to ask someone from Community, or perhaps a Liaison.
[12:10] Les White: steve is heading the public works stuff
[12:10] Andrew Linden: Torley Linden may know more about that project.
[12:10] Aybabtu Aabye: what is the qualifies as quality content?
[12:10] Les White: about 2% of sl :)
[12:11] Arawn Spitteler: Blue, at 1600 tommorrow, at the Chair in Grasmere, looks like a good bet
[12:11] Aybabtu Aabye: ba dump bump!
[12:11] Gaius Goodliffe: That much? ;)
[12:11] Squirrel Wood: Poor Torley! When will LL provide Torley Clones? ^^
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Arawn, three avatars sitting on the same object... it is one object for collision purposes
[12:11] Andrew Linden: the sitting avatars actually change the collision shape of the final object.
[12:11] Squirrel Wood: 4pm grasmere? just too late for me
[12:11] Gaius Goodliffe: Do sitting avatars change the mass of an object?
[12:11] Deborah Goldblatt: to late for me, too
[12:12] Creem Pye: yet collisions to the passengers aren't passed to the object's root in LSL =\
[12:12] Les White: yes
[12:12] Arawn Spitteler: I was wondering if a physical merry go round would be kind to a sim
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Yes, that may be Creeme. You mean for collision event callbacks in LSL scripts?
[12:12] Creem Pye: yeah
[12:12] Creem Pye: well, I wonder how much content would break if that were to change...
[12:13] Andrew Linden: What shoudl the behavior be there? Should it block Havok4 deployment?
[12:13] Creem Pye: it's the same in H1, so I wouldn't consider it a blocker
[12:13] Jacon Cortes: thank you all ..have a great day...:)
[12:13] Andrew Linden: If it doesn't work in Havok1 I'm not interested in changing it until *after* Havok4 is done.
[12:13] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[12:13] Creem Pye: makes senes
[12:13] Creem Pye: *sense
[12:13] Gaius Goodliffe: Where do we start the wishlist for what to fix once H4 is released?
[12:14] Andrew Linden: I'll still hold office hours for a while after Havok4
[12:14] Gaius Goodliffe: Ah excellent.
[12:14] Andrew Linden: I'm not positive I'll hold office hours forever, or I may drop it down to 1 hour a week. Not sure.
[12:14] Squirrel Wood: Whatever is required will be okay methinks :)
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Depends on what I'm working on. If I'm working on new features then I'll still hold hours
[12:15] Andrew Linden: When I say "Havok4 is done" I mean that it has been merged into the main codebase and all LL developers have to deal with it.
[12:15] Squirrel Wood: If you decide to not hold hours you could still tag on to the bug triages or something ^^
[12:15] Aybabtu Aabye: moving vehicle specific questions to thursday, do you need any more places to test vehicles on? specifically terrain areas?
[12:16] Andrew Linden: That doesn't mean that development on Havok4 will cease... there will still be work to do.
[12:16] Aybabtu Aabye: between now and then i mean
[12:16] Squirrel Wood: hasn't havok 5.5 been released or something ?
[12:16] Andrew Linden: No Aybabtu, but I'll be needing broken vehicles.
[12:16] Aybabtu Aabye: ok, with notes on where they break
[12:16] Andrew Linden: Perhaps I'll have another "vehicle session" after Thursday's office hour.
[12:17] Andrew Linden: Where we test vehicles and I get copies of broken ones.
[12:17] Andrew Linden: ATM I'm looking at the Dominus Shadow. It is fairly representative of the ground vehicle bugs...
[12:18] Andrew Linden: bounces on some prim seams, slow motor responses
[12:18] Squirrel Wood: OMy. The Pr1m H0g
[12:18] Aybabtu Aabye: i have a set of vehicles that do not use the vehicle library
[12:18] Gaius Goodliffe: Did you see this one regarding the Shadow? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1567 Of course it's not acting as a ground vehicle in that case...
[12:18] Les White: NO_MOTOR_UP doesn work
[12:18] Les White: wheelies to space
[12:18] Zuffy Frua scratchies his bum
[12:19] Aybabtu Aabye: im worried on lsl vehicle library cars, dominus shadow, won't cover things that come up in other cars
[12:19] Aybabtu Aabye: ill send you one
[12:19] Andrew Linden: Gimme a copy of another car broken in Havok4 Aybabtu.
[12:20] Deborah Goldblatt: sorry, have to leave
[12:20] Deborah Goldblatt: by
[12:20] Andrew Linden: Ok, I'm going to end the hour now and check out Brandon's flight assist problem, then go to lunch.
[12:20] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.
[12:20] Aybabtu Aabye: thanks for listening
[12:20] Les White: thanks for you time Andrew!
[12:20] Gaius Goodliffe: Thank you, sir!
[12:20] Squirrel Wood: thanks for hosting ^^