User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 07 10
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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:
| [17:02] | Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chronocules/33/244/25 | |
| [17:03] | Arawn Spitteler: | AWG is not inclined, to speak English |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | hiya andrew |
| [17:04] | Chair: Press Page Up to move chair up, or Page Down to move chair down | |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | Hello |
| [17:04] | Sindy Tsure: | the egg bomber is temp.. they'll poof soon.. |
| [17:04] | Arawn Spitteler: | Where'd the eggs come from? |
| [17:04] | Yuu Nakamichi: | howdy |
| [17:04] | Sindy Tsure will do it again in a minute.. | |
| [17:04] | Arawn Spitteler: | Hey, Yuu |
| [17:04] | Sindy Tsure: | i've got a silly magic wand that rezzes stuff when it hears keywords in chat |
| [17:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | fire |
| [17:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | water |
| [17:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | eggs |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure mumbles the word eggs again.. watch to the east | |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | is that Starax's wand? |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure: | nooooo |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure: | wish it was.. |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure: | :\ |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure: | he bailed before i joined sl :( |
| [17:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | DE PROFUNDIS IZARWI!! |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure: | i have silly stuff.. nothing like he had |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | You gotta love some of the wacky stuff people make in SL |
| [17:06] | Sindy Tsure: | pies |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | cows |
| [17:06] | Sindy Tsure: | no.. i do have frogs, tho |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | yes, not Starax's |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | I broke some of his wand rezzies |
| [17:06] | Sindy Tsure: | if his cost a million, mine would be included in a pack of pop-tarts.. it's a whole different thing.. |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | and then he left SL shortly after 8-O |
| [17:07] | Sindy Tsure thinks he was unhappy about several things | |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | I eventually fixed most of them... they were hitting some newly minted temp-on-rez limits of small parcels |
| [17:07] | Sindy Tsure: | at least he's back with an alt :) |
| [17:07] | Sindy Tsure takes off the wand, knowing that somebody's gonna get one pie too many by mistake | |
| [17:08] | Andrew Linden: | That's good to hear. It seemed like he was tapping into some unique modes of creativity. |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | he did greenies! |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | oh.. oops.. disclosure.. |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | pretty public knowledge, tho |
| [17:08] | Andrew Linden: | Lessee... RacerX Gullwing is asking me via IM for news about SVC-1179... |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden must actually look that up again (my brain is too full of jira numbers!!!!) | |
| [17:09] | Arawn Spitteler: | That the one of unsteady impulse? |
| [17:09] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1179 |
| [17:09] | Arawn Spitteler: | Hi, Cindy, you'll want to check out Sindy's wand, later |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | but that also means I probably don't have any progress to report... |
| [17:09] | Sindy Tsure: | lol |
| [17:09] | Cindy Anatine: | great |
| [17:09] | Cindy Anatine: | looking forward to it |
| [17:10] | Andrew Linden: | Yeah, no progress on that, however I did fix SVC-2511 today in my code sandbox |
| [17:10] | Arawn Spitteler: | I haven't tested, to see if it's a megaprim issue, or a tube issue, that my bridge turns phantom. |
| [17:11] | Arawn Spitteler: | Hi, Rex |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | Ok, other announcements... Looks like I'm going to be the main senior developer in charge of simulator maintenance for the next several months |
| [17:11] | Rex Cronon: | hi arawn |
| [17:11] | Rex Cronon: | hi everybody |
| [17:11] | Sindy Tsure: | andrew the grid monkey? |
| [17:11] | Yuu Nakamichi: | w00t andrew |
| [17:12] | Simon Linden: | Naw, The Bug Czar |
| [17:12] | Andrew Linden: | so if you have complaints, questions, or comments about simulator maintenance then these hours will be a good place to bring them |
| [17:12] | Sindy Tsure: | oh.. |
| [17:12] | Rex Cronon: | i just had to install the rc |
| [17:12] | Simon Linden: | yes, new RC today |
| [17:12] | Andrew Linden: | No, not grid monkey but just in charge of managing the bug queue, and making sure the really important ones have someone working on them |
| [17:12] | Arawn Spitteler: | Were those Particle Eggs, Sindy? |
| [17:12] | Yuu Nakamichi: | great |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure: | nope.. temp/physical until they collide then physics gets turned off |
| [17:13] | Yuu Nakamichi: | are you going to be working with the Battery St Irregular group as well? |
| [17:13] | Rex Cronon: | what does simulator maintanance involve? |
| [17:13] | Andrew Linden: | I also installed the RC today, but I don't think I'm running it now... |
| [17:13] | Arawn Spitteler: | BSI is Viewer Side |
| [17:14] | Andrew Linden: | Battery Street Irregular Group? That one is new to me. |
| [17:14] | Yuu Nakamichi: | right arawn |
| [17:14] | Sindy Tsure: | bug hunting group.. there's info at bridies place, i think |
| [17:14] | Yuu Nakamichi: | yup, viewer |
| [17:14] | Andrew Linden: | Rex, I'm taking over most of the duties that Don Linden had as director of our #blacklight studio. |
| [17:14] | Arawn Spitteler: | The application form is at CG's. Volunteers to try the nightly builds. |
| [17:15] | Yuu Nakamichi: | how many studios are there? |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | Mostly that meant helping new dev's learn the codebase, and also focusing on the high-priority bugs, and also general maintenance bugs. |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | Studios are going away |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | We now have "layers" |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | hence the codename "cake" for the re-organization |
| [17:16] | Sindy Tsure has always thought, no offense at all!, that andrew would look like shrek if he was greener.. talk more about layers!! | |
| [17:16] | Sindy Tsure waits to get ejected | |
| [17:16] | fixer Karu: | jajaja esta verga la liga de la justicia? |
| [17:16] | Andrew Linden: | there are fewer "layers" than there were studios... 5 layers I think |
| [17:16] | Rex Cronon: | ok, congrats, next u might become ceo:) |
| [17:16] | Andrew Linden: | LL developers are like cakes, we have layers |
| [17:16] | Sindy Tsure: | not onions? |
| [17:16] | Andrew Linden: | but everybody likes cake |
| [17:16] | Arawn Spitteler: | And get eaten by the users? |
| [17:16] | Yuu Nakamichi is convinced the cake is a lie | |
| [17:17] | Andrew Linden: | Nobody likes onions. |
| [17:17] | Joeseph Albanese: | fruit? |
| [17:17] | Joeseph Albanese: | Sorry I couldnt resist. |
| [17:17] | Andrew Linden: | When I'm not actually sorting through bugs, and coordinating the testing and deploy of various maintenance code branches I'll be fixing bugs. |
| [17:18] | Andrew Linden: | I accepted the maintenance responsibilities since I was planning on continuing Havok4 maintenance through the cake re-organization anyway |
| [17:19] | Sindy Tsure hopes andrew is excited about this and will find it interesting work! | |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | I was just mentioning that since my office hours now become a good place to complain about server bugs and to hear about the latest updates on that front. |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden would prefer to write fresh buggy code. | |
| [17:20] | Arawn Spitteler wonders: Could bugs be fixed, so they don't have any little bugs? | |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | On the other hand... I consider some of the megaprim liberation stuff to almost be bugs, so maybe I'll be able to get some of that done too. |
| [17:20] | Simon Linden: | We try to fix them all the time :) |
| [17:20] | Rex Cronon: | megaprims as bugs? |
| [17:21] | Andrew Linden: | bugs spontaneusly generate, no previous bugs are required |
| [17:21] | Rex Cronon: | those are some "small" bugs |
| [17:21] | Sindy Tsure: | and hide when you look for them.. hiesenbugs.. |
| [17:21] | Andrew Linden: | lessee... I think that is all of the announcements I had. |
| [17:21] | Cindy Anatine: | sory, i dont belong here i guess, dont have a clue what u guys are talking about..;LOL...nice meeting u all! have fun! |
| [17:21] | Sindy Tsure: | cya, cindy!! |
| [17:21] | Rex Cronon: | bye cindy |
| [17:21] | Cindy Anatine: | bye all! |
| [17:21] | Andrew Linden: | Soon I'm going to be making more passes through the public jira bug list |
| [17:22] | Simon Linden: | Thanks for dropping by |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | this is a good place to ask about h4 |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | I did one small pass today, and found a bunch of stale bugs that had been fixed |
| [17:22] | Yuu Nakamichi: | I'm always keen to know what is happening on the performance side of things |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | h4=havok 4 |
| [17:22] | Yuu Nakamichi: | re. TD etc. |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | Simon will be focusing on simulator performance |
| [17:23] | Yuu Nakamichi: | and what impact, if any, mono might have on it |
| [17:23] | Sindy Tsure was distracted by IMs.. sorry if this was asked but are you going to change the way bugs are prioritized, anderw? | |
| [17:23] | Sindy Tsure: | more weight on votes or something, maybe? |
| [17:23] | Arawn Spitteler: | Well, scripts will work faster, and efficiently, so of course, more people will be scripting |
| [17:23] | Simon Linden: | Yuu - we're doing some groundwork to get code and systems in place to measure performance well. Making sure we can get good test results when measuring performance |
| [17:24] | Simon Linden: | Then we'll start hitting some of the slowdowns |
| [17:24] | Yuu Nakamichi: | ah ok |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | Probably not Sindy. Votes and general comment traffice influence bug prioritization certainly |
| [17:24] | Sindy Tsure nods | |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | however the final prioritzation has never been as simple as counting votes |
| [17:24] | Simon Linden: | I've also done some work on teleport arrivals and trying to use more CPU power from empty sims |
| [17:24] | Yuu Nakamichi: | yes! |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | someone could enter an *impossible* freature request and it could generate a great many votes, but still be *impossible*. |
| [17:25] | Yuu Nakamichi: | have you decided what you want to do re. empty sim slow-down? |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure: | 1000-groups! |
| [17:25] | Arawn Spitteler: | Asset Servers are parts of Simulator Communications, that connect to the Central DB? |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure: | guarenteed to get a vote from everybody.. |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | Meanwhile there is a smooth range between *very easy* bugs and *nigh impossible* bugs |
| [17:26] | Andrew Linden: | a *nigh imposible* bug would be one that requires a huge amount of overhaul in order to fix |
| [17:26] | Sindy Tsure understands.. low-hanging fruit is sometimes the good stuff.. | |
| [17:26] | Simon Linden: | Yuu - no, not yet. It seems very safe to slow down some scripts, but dropping frame rate is controversial, plus it messes up our systems that track health based on frame rate |
| [17:26] | Rex Cronon: | i request that sims allow at least 1000 user:) |
| [17:26] | Andrew Linden: | usually such major overhauls should be done piecemeal, in my opinion -- they should be broken up into smaller deliverable pieces |
| [17:26] | Yuu Nakamichi: | Simon - interesting |
| [17:27] | Andrew Linden: | so the original bug is not very helpful... better to identify the smaller pre-requisites that could get us there |
| [17:27] | Yuu Nakamichi: | I recall we had a lot of divergent opinions on this question in these hours |
| [17:27] | Yuu Nakamichi: | a few weeks ago |
| [17:28] | Arawn Spitteler: | Major Overhauls might turn out to be the needed repairs. Work out the design philosophy, so that everything scales smoothly. |
| [17:28] | Yuu Nakamichi: | might be interesting to put it to practice on the preview grid |
| [17:28] | Arawn Spitteler: | I've been kicked off line, by some Data Base Issue, a couple times, recently. |
| [17:29] | Yuu Nakamichi: | so that resis could get a feel for it |
| [17:29] | Andrew Linden: | honestly, comments in these office hours also influence bug priority. If everyone here is complaining about one bug it will definitely get my attention. |
| [17:29] | Simon Linden: | Yes, I think that's actually the next major step, but I need to sort out the problems with the monitoring systems |
| [17:29] | Arawn Spitteler: | I must be registered on a troublesome server. |
| [17:29] | Sindy Tsure: | in that case, i'd like to bring up http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22 :) |
| [17:29] | Yuu Nakamichi: | k |
| [17:30] | Andrew Linden: | egads... a border crossing bug |
| [17:30] | Arawn Spitteler'sn't going to page on ckicking | |
| [17:31] | Andrew Linden reads the description... | |
| [17:31] | Sindy Tsure: | if the parcel on the other side of the border is full and you're in a vehicle, you get tossed and the vehicle poofs.. there's a lot of viewer weirdness too, tho - you're still in the old anims and positions, even tho the vehicle is gone |
| [17:31] | Sindy Tsure: | it gets weird enough that i aways relog when it happens |
| [17:31] | Sindy Tsure: | it's painful if it roam the grid in a vehicle |
| [17:31] | Sindy Tsure: | *if you |
| [17:32] | Arawn Spitteler: | Oh, you've got to ride my car, three prims, from Neumogen to Hector. (If you can.) |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... the vehicle is not supposed to count against the parcel prim limits while it has an occupant |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | so there is definitely a bug there |
| [17:33] | Andrew Linden: | it is fixable, I think |
| [17:33] | Andrew Linden makes a note | |
| [17:33] | Andrew Linden: | Next bug. |
| [17:33] | Arawn Spitteler: | I don't see particles on this torch, but that's a viewer issue |
| [17:33] | Joeseph Albanese: | I have a similar issue crossing a particular region I get region_handoff_error. |
| [17:33] | Simon Linden: | the flames? I see that OK |
| [17:33] | Sindy Tsure sees them, arawn | |
| [17:34] | Yuu Nakamichi: | yes, me too (see them) |
| [17:34] | Andrew Linden: | I see the flames. They look like particle flames |
| [17:34] | Sindy Tsure: | not sure the jira tag but there's a suggestion to allow scripts to see across sim borders - basically to see if it's ok for a vehicle to cross or if there's ban lines up |
| [17:34] | Arawn Spitteler: | Cindy was showing me a particle spell, earlier, and I could only see the particles, on another viewer. |
| [17:34] | Andrew Linden: | Arawn, you have particles enabled in your client preferences? |
| [17:35] | Arawn Spitteler: | Render -> Types -> Particles is Xed |
| [17:35] | Sindy Tsure: | View menu -> Beacons.. is Hide PArticles checked? |
| [17:35] | Andrew Linden: | That's how I'll bolster attendance in my office hours. I'll just require bugs to be nominated here in person! |
| [17:35] | Sindy Tsure: | lol |
| [17:36] | Ellla McMahon: | LOL |
| [17:36] | Yuu Nakamichi: | heh |
| [17:36] | Andrew Linden: | or else I won't bother prioritizing them ;-) |
| [17:36] | Simon Linden: | Extra votes if you show up here? |
| [17:37] | Yuu Nakamichi wonders if there's a way to coordinate better with the monday bug triage | |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden: | The monday bug triage is a public meeting where recent bugs are scrutinized? |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | I haven't actually attended that meeting yet, I might have to start |
| [17:38] | Yuu Nakamichi: | yes, Soft |
| [17:38] | Rex Cronon: | more, like looked over |
| [17:38] | Yuu Nakamichi: | holds them at Hippotropolis |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | however I'm interested in keeping the number of meetings I attend to a minimum |
| [17:39] | Andrew Linden: | We're currently re-designing how we handle triage of bugs internally |
| [17:39] | Andrew Linden: | there was a meeting today where a lot of people had opinions, but I didn't have many to offer |
| [17:39] | Yuu Nakamichi: | perhaps we could flag simulator specific issues for follow-up |
| [17:39] | Andrew Linden: | perhaps if I were to be on maintenance for a long time I would develop some opinions |
| [17:40] | Sindy Tsure finally finds the other bug she was looking for.. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-221 | |
| [17:40] | Andrew Linden: | but I found myself just wishing the rest of the attendees would hammer out the plan and then just tell me what it was |
| [17:40] | Sindy Tsure: | "llGetParcelFlags(), llScriptDanger(), and llGetLandOwnerAt() should be able to peek accross sim boundaries" |
| [17:40] | Rex Cronon: | isn't the plan to fix them? |
| [17:40] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... yeah those could be done... |
| [17:41] | Andrew Linden: | are those "bugs" or "feature requests"? |
| [17:41] | Simon Linden: | That's pretty interesting (and useful) but internally it's a lot of code since it involves checking another region's current state |
| [17:41] | Sindy Tsure: | i'd be fine with seeing what's on the other side of the border.. especially if it's got a ban line. this is more vehicle stuff |
| [17:41] | Sindy Tsure: | it's one feature request.. basically asking that vehicles can see what's on the other side of the line |
| [17:42] | Sindy Tsure nods at simon. i thought it sounded harder than it looked.. it'd still be nice, tho | |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | An LL developer could make a busy carreer fixing border crossing bugs |
| [17:42] | Simon Linden: | maybe it should be a new function ... llCanMove() or such ... just an idea |
| [17:42] | Sindy Tsure: | that might work |
| [17:43] | Andrew Linden: | simon, perhaps it would be a good idea for neighboring regions to transmit all of that data to their neighbors... |
| [17:43] | Rex Cronon: | isn't llScriptDanger used for that? |
| [17:43] | Sindy Tsure afks to stop the phone ringing | |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | no, wait, we already have some simulator web-services that answer some of those questions... parcel ownership, for example |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | we chould just query through that pipeline |
| [17:45] | Andrew Linden: | I'd really like to start doing more work with what we call the "simulator namespace URI" system |
| [17:45] | Andrew Linden: | basically the simulators each have a little simple http server embedded, that can read and write XML |
| [17:45] | Sindy Tsure: | already? |
| [17:46] | Andrew Linden: | they then handle various well-formatted XML info requests, internal requests from other simulators or automated scripts, for example |
| [17:46] | Sindy Tsure sees the 'already' word above.. scratch that last question | |
| [17:46] | Andrew Linden: | yes, this functionality exists in the simulators, but I don't think we're taking full advantage of it yet |
| [17:47] | Arawn Spitteler: | Might not be documented |
| [17:47] | Andrew Linden: | and every once in a while I get an idea that would work really well through that feature... but I haven't yet actually coded one up yet |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | well, the simulator namespace URI stuff is not accessible from external networks yet, that I know of |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | I talked to some web devs about how we might open some simulator web services up to public access |
| [17:48] | Sindy Tsure wonders what kind of data they pass around.. is this for, say, people flying across the border? or more for stuff that prospero does? | |
| [17:48] | Sindy Tsure: | or "whatever we want to pass"? |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | but the consensus was that we would definitley need some authentication wrapper for those services |
| [17:49] | Andrew Linden: | since many estate owners would NOT want just anyone to be able to query their region for whatever |
| [17:49] | Andrew Linden: | well, someone was asking me for a feature that would have worked well with some kind of simulator web service... |
| [17:49] | Andrew Linden: | I think they wanted to be able to tell if a region had crashed or not |
| [17:50] | Arawn Spitteler: | That's an idea, I was thinking of, earlier. Where we have Ban Lines and Access Lines, perhaps we could have Interest List Exclusions, as on OI |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | so they wanted to be able to query the UNIX process ID (PID) of the simulator |
| [17:50] | Rex Cronon: | there is one feature that is quite needed, the ability to get the keys off all the avatars in a sim |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | so, why wouldn't that info just be public? You send an XML request to the simulator and get a reply with info about the process... uptime, pid, memory footprint, etc |
| [17:50] | Arawn Spitteler: | They'd have to know what server the Simulator was on, to find out if it was, wouldn't it? Classic Halting Problem. |
| [17:51] | Yuu Nakamichi: | top level info |
| [17:51] | Yuu Nakamichi: | I would think that's great |
| [17:51] | Andrew Linden: | Arawn, the current locations of the simulators could be published, or better yet accessible through some DNS namespace system |
| [17:51] | Yuu Nakamichi: | it would also help estate managers make smarter decisions |
| [17:51] | Sindy Tsure: | that sounds great but opening it up to non-lindens sounds scary.. |
| [17:51] | Simon Linden: | Having looked at performance I'm paranoid about adding new services, especially ones open to the public and possible DOS attacks |
| [17:52] | Sindy Tsure nods! | |
| [17:52] | Andrew Linden: | Sindy, some estate owners might want to be able to query their regions... avatar count, sim stats, remote parcel operations, etc |
| [17:52] | Andrew Linden: | via scripts rather than logging in |
| [17:52] | Sindy Tsure: | absolutely |
| [17:53] | Simon Linden: | We're finding some of the performance dips -- when the fps drops for a bit -- aren't due to anything in the region, but another region on the same host, or a back-end process |
| [17:53] | Sindy Tsure was worrying more about DOS attacks | |
| [17:53] | Arawn Spitteler: | So, they should be able to register the interogative data bas. |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | Right Simon, all of those services would have to be throttled or go through a squid |
| [17:53] | Yuu Nakamichi: | hi sidewinder :) |
| [17:53] | Sindy Tsure: | especially if any internal stuff ends up on the server replying |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | squid = http proxy |
| [17:53] | Sidewinder Linden: | hi yuu |
| [17:53] | Simon Linden: | Sort of the chaos theory of a phyiscal butterfly in China causing a region in Kansas to slow down |
| [17:53] | Arawn Spitteler: | If it's their sim, they've as much right, though less training, as the Lindens who're Estate Agents of Mainland. |
| [17:54] | Andrew Linden: | Yes but... perhaps some info should be public? |
| [17:54] | Sindy Tsure: | wow.. chat spasm.. *especially if other internal things rely on that web server replying in a timly fashion |
| [17:54] | Andrew Linden: | Perhaps public regions should have some info publicly available? |
| [17:54] | Sindy Tsure: | hiya sidewinder |
| [17:54] | Andrew Linden: | Perhaps parcel owners should be able to decide if their parcel info is public? |
| [17:55] | Sidewinder Linden: | /hi sindy |
| [17:55] | Sindy Tsure: | a lot already is, thu bots.. |
| [17:55] | Sindy Tsure: | onrez had some bots wandering the mainland, indexing everything that was for sale |
| [17:55] | Arawn Spitteler: | Visibility occured to me, since a parcel that's visibly closed is easier to avoid, than an access line |
| [17:55] | Andrew Linden: | right Sindy, and these web services would be less load on the system, espeially if we routed it through the squid |
| [17:56] | Andrew Linden: | (every simulator host already runs a squid) |
| [17:56] | Sindy Tsure: | hard to argue with that, as long as there's no added potential for grief! |
| [17:57] | Sindy Tsure: | less work for people getting the data, less load on the system.. /me w00ts |
| [17:57] | Joeseph Albanese: | I would love to be able to pull land info from my estate to import to a website. |
| [17:57] | Arawn Spitteler: | More people will want the data |
| [17:57] | Andrew Linden: | anyway, that is a system I' |
| [17:57] | Andrew Linden: | I'd like to work on, and we've kicked the idea around the lab |
| [17:58] | Arawn Spitteler: | I think Zarf has his scripts accessing his website |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | however the last time I queried some web devs about it they sighed wistfully |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | at the idea that they could ever find time to write the authentication layer for it |
| [17:58] | Sindy Tsure: | er.. just hire a dozen more! |
| [17:58] | Sindy Tsure ducks | |
| [17:58] | Yuu Nakamichi: | hehe |
| [17:58] | Yuu Nakamichi: | offer a bounty :) |
| [17:59] | Sindy Tsure: | before time runs out, there was a question from the forums.. |
| [17:59] | Sindy Tsure tries to sum it up, or you can see http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=269760 | |
| [18:00] | Andrew Linden: | ooff, an llTargetOmega() problem/bug/question |
| [18:00] | Sindy Tsure: | about llTargetOmega.. two issues.. one is that prims don't rotate unless the camera is close - not sure i buy that as it seems to work for me |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | I think I will tell Kelly Linden to reply to that thread. |
| [18:01] | Sidewinder Linden: | this sounds like a tree in the forest problem |
| [18:01] | Sindy Tsure: | other is that is seems inconsistant in how it acts when you right-click on it |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | He's been missing llTargetOmega() I'm sure. |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | He dreams about it... |
| [18:01] | Sidewinder Linden: | how can you tell if it's spinnning without a camera around? :) |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | in his nightmares. |
| [18:01] | Sindy Tsure knows you guys love it and miss the bugs there | |
| [18:01] | Sidewinder Linden: | hahaha |
| [18:01] | Sindy Tsure: | lol - excellent point, sidewinder |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... that bug appears to be partially a client-side problem |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | although it could be caused by our "interest list" system which is basically a culling sort on the simulator that figures out what objects can be seen and what info to send |
| [18:03] | Andrew Linden: | personally... llTargetOmega() on static objects is an egregious HACK and I'm against it. |
| [18:03] | Andrew Linden: | That said... people love it and use it to make some cool stuff. |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure is a little fuzzy on how llTargetOmega works.. know there was Havok4 issues with it earlier this year but "it's all client-side" so.. | |
| [18:04] | Arawn Spitteler: | I was thinking, that llTargetOmega on Child Prims could be treated as on Static |
| [18:04] | Andrew Linden: | And it is mostly cheap on the simulator resources (if you ignore the special case code that threads through the interestlist to make it possible) |
| [18:05] | Andrew Linden: | it is both client-side and server-side... the object (whold object or even individual prim) isn't actually rotating |
| [18:05] | Andrew Linden: | but the simulator pretends it is, and the client also pretends it is |
| [18:05] | Andrew Linden: | anyway, the feature is fragile |
| [18:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | i've had TargetOmega on a child of a vehicle, and it spun the entire vehicle |
| [18:06] | Sindy Tsure: | on purpose? |
| [18:06] | Andrew Linden: | and the priority of the llTargetOmega0 glitches will probably build up until we actually fix it |
| [18:06] | Andrew Linden: | I'd rate that bug as "major" rather than "critical" |
| [18:06] | Sindy Tsure: | when h4 first hit the grid, there was lots of screaming about the llTargetOmega bugs.. this is the first one i've heard in months, tho |
| [18:06] | Sindy Tsure: | maybe it's some corner case |
| [18:07] | Andrew Linden: | perhaps I'll suggest to some LL developer that they fix it... when I find someone I really want to punish ;-) |
| [18:07] | Sindy Tsure: | lol |
| [18:07] | Simon Linden: | The really hard-to-kill bug was one where stuff stopped rotating due to it's selection state getting lost, but Kelly did some work on it and it should be periodically cleaned up |
| [18:08] | Andrew Linden: | I'm going to have to go now... got somewhere to be this evening and I'm going to be late. |
| [18:08] | Sindy Tsure: | cya, andrew! |
| [18:08] | Andrew Linden: | thanks for coming everyone |
| [18:08] | Rex Cronon: | bye andrew |
| [18:08] | Rex Cronon: | bye everybody |
| [18:08] | Rex Cronon: | have fun |
| [18:08] | Sidewinder Linden: | see you andrew thanks! |
| [18:08] | Sindy Tsure: | i think the interesting part of that thread may be "I guess the real question is, is it worth trying to find some kind of order/pattern here and try to work with it? Or is this behavior likely to be completely different in a couple of releases?" |
| [18:09] | Sindy Tsure: | it sounds like you all aren't really messing around in there too much any more, unless you need to |
| [18:09] | Sindy Tsure: | which would make the answer "no.. it's not going to be totally different any time soon" |
| [18:10] | Andrew Linden: | Sindy, I think we'll eventually try to fix it and remove those glitches. |