User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 11 19

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Transcript

[17:00] Welcome to Linden office hours
[17:00]
[17:01] Ardy Lay: Hi Andrew
[17:01] Cerdita Piek: Hello Andrew :)
[17:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hey Andrew
[17:01] Patnad Babii: hi everyone ㋡
[17:01] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Andrew, you beat Simon in, today
[17:01] Andrew Linden: Hey Ardy, I was looking at my SLWiki office hours transcripts page today
[17:01] Ardy Lay: Uh oh.
[17:01] Fury Rosewood: c.c
[17:01] Andrew Linden: and realized that you had been adding transcripts of some of the recent hours
[17:01] Ardy Lay: I have.
[17:01] Andrew Linden: I'd like to thank you.
[17:01] JaneD DeCuir: rezzzing
[17:02] Ardy Lay: You are welcome.
[17:02] Fury Rosewood: does ardy get brownies?
[17:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ardy, you should be ashamed of yourself! :o
[17:02] Andrew Linden: I was wondering thoug... do you use a script to format them? Or do you do it by hand?
[17:02] Arawn Spitteler: If you want anything done right, at least make a start
[17:02] Ardy Lay: I found two different toos that each have their problems.
[17:02] Ardy Lay: tools
[17:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[17:02] Fury Rosewood: grep?
[17:03] Arawn Spitteler: Two toos tricky?
[17:03] Sebastean Steamweaver uses grep.
[17:03] Rex Cronon: i hope i didn't shoot anybody
[17:03] Ardy Lay: This one looks nice but has problems when people paste in chat. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Kuraiko_Yoshikawa/SLog_Wikifier
[17:03] Ardy Lay: When it breaks I switch to this one. http://www.treekyomoon.com/wikifier.htm
[17:03] Andrew Linden: Ardy, were either of the tools written in python?
[17:04] Andrew Linden: oh, that one is a web tool
[17:04] Andrew Linden: I
[17:04] Ardy Lay: Both are web tools.
[17:04] Andrew Linden: I've got a script for formatting that is written in perl
[17:04] JaneD DeCuir: thats a good opportunity.... anyone around who is good in converting of asx streams to ip adresses?
[17:04] Andrew Linden: however I lack enthusiasm for hacking and improving it
[17:05] Arawn Spitteler: Thatt's why we have trainee devs
[17:05] Andrew Linden: I'd rather rewrite the thing in python than dig into perl
[17:06] JaneD DeCuir: IM me if you can and like to do it... later
[17:06] JaneD DeCuir: thanks
[17:06] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Jane
[17:06] lonetorus Habilis wonders if it could be done with awk alone
[17:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: How is our little Squirt doing? :D
[17:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: And will we get a chance to meet him?
[17:07] Ardy Lay: I didn't make it to all the meetings. I think I have filled in all of them I did catch.
[17:07] Andrew Linden: Simon says he'll be late to this meeting.
[17:08] Andrew Linden: I have the missing transcripts.
[17:08] Andrew Linden: I kinda liked your formatting better than the old one... more terse formatting
[17:08] Andrew Linden: although, what I would really like is per-speaker colorization
[17:08] Andrew Linden: which is why I was wondering if you had a script or not
[17:08] Sebastean Steamweaver: Someone had that for Babbage's hours.
[17:09] Rex Cronon: u will end up with a rainbow:)
[17:09] Andrew Linden: Yes.
[17:09] Arawn Spitteler: Would it create links to the user:s?
[17:09] lonetorus Habilis: yes, i used some web tool
[17:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: And we'll put your words in purple :)
[17:09] Andrew Linden: If we had persistant colors per speaker maybe we could coordinate our chats to make special patterns.
[17:09] Arawn Spitteler: Put Andrew's words in red, that he may speak like Jesus
[17:10] Sebastean Steamweaver: Aww, I was looking forward to purple.
[17:10] Sebastean Steamweaver: I claim Navy.
[17:10] lonetorus Habilis: in this client lindens speak with a different colour by default
[17:10] Andrew Linden: I think I'll put mine in a separate FoNt
[17:10] lonetorus Habilis: (radegast)
[17:10] Rex Cronon: so, if my words come out in read i speak like jesus? really?
[17:10] Rex Cronon: out inred*
[17:10] Patnad Babii: any idea when this issue will be resolved its been open for a long time: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12395
[17:10] Paid Classifieds are not showing up in the right frame in ALL search
[17:10] Arawn Spitteler: There are bibles, with the words of Jesus Red, not Read, I'm afraid
[17:11] Rex Cronon: read was atypo:)
[17:11] Sebastean Steamweaver: That looks like a viewer issue Patnad - we deal with the server here :)
[17:11] Andrew Linden: Ok, so I finally assigned MISC-3077 to me. I've got a branch and there will be three of us LL devs working on bits of it on the side, for the next few weeks.
[17:11] List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[17:11] Sebastean Steamweaver cheers
[17:12] Patnad Babii: the meeting mention technicals issues as well....
[17:12] Andrew Linden: I won't get all of the linked issues, but we'll each pick a few and then close the project in time for server-1.36.
[17:12] Arawn Spitteler suspects SVC-93 will be easier than svc-22
[17:12] ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[17:12] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[17:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: That's fine with me Andrew. I believe I mentioned my votes last time.
[17:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: Not all of the ones on there are issues I would consider "top priority."
[17:13] Andrew Linden: Go ahead and change the priorities on the list. That might be helpful.
[17:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: What priority would you prefer them be set to?
[17:13] Andrew Linden: Well, the ones you really want set higher than "normal"
[17:13] Fury Rosewood: mmmm
[17:13] Fury Rosewood: issue with snow
[17:14] Fury Rosewood: media plugin missing
[17:14] Andrew Linden: We'll also be selecting them based on how easy they are, but they're all supposed to be pretty easy, as per the title.
[17:14] Ardy Lay: Fury, I know. Working on it.
[17:14] Andrew Linden: Any that turn out to be much harder than we expected we'll unlink.
[17:14] Fury Rosewood: okie
[17:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: I don't think much has changed since you last audited it. The changes that have been made have been passed through you first, to my knowledge.
[17:14] Ardy Lay: Just keep going. It reloads the plugin manager.
[17:14] Andrew Linden: That is, if they are too hard for the project.
[17:15] Arawn Spitteler: A sepeate Meta, for not so easy changes?
[17:15] Andrew Linden: Yes, just saying that things aren't alwasy as easy as we expect. However I'm pretty sure these are all easy.
[17:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: No problem Andrew - I'm ecstatic that it'll be worked on.
[17:15] Andrew Linden: Arawn, leave that separate meta for later. Don't create it now.
[17:15] Saijanai Kuhn: I missed the context of the discussion... what are easy?
[17:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: MISC-3077
[17:15] Andrew Linden: Saijanai, we're talking about MISC-3077
[17:16] Saijanai Kuhn: thanks
[17:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3077
[17:16] List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[17:16] Arawn Spitteler: Enticingly easy until you find why they were borked in the first place
[17:17] Andrew Linden: Well, MISC-3077 is supposed to include features, and mabye new features that are really just workarounds for bad LSL API's that cannot be changed -- for fear of breaking content.
[17:18] Andrew Linden: So yeah, some of them are "borked in the first place" but the mode of fixing them is to add new calls that do what the old ones should have done in the first place.
[17:18] Arawn Spitteler: SVC-93 as an example
[17:18] Andrew Linden: Ok, that's all the announcements I've got.
[17:18] Papa Popinjay: Anything good coming in 1.34?
[17:19] Andrew Linden: I think we're going to link SVC-3306 to MISC-3077, or at least it will be in the same project.
[17:19] Add enumeration to llPassCollisions() to provide ALWAYS_PASS, PASS_IF_NOT_HANDLED, and NEVER_PASS as explicit options
[17:19] Papa Popinjay: good = new
[17:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Is simon able to talk about his secret project? :)
[17:19] Andrew Linden: Nothing interesting in 1.34 that I know about.
[17:20] Andrew Linden: 1.34 has some internal project that is high priority from LL's perspective
[17:21] Papa Popinjay: I liked the old days where new servers meant new features. :(
[17:21] Arawn Spitteler: SEC issues?
[17:21] Andrew Linden: although, I suspect many here would find it uninteresting. That's about all I can say about it. It is some project that we're not supposed to talk about yet.
[17:22] Andrew Linden: I mention it, not to build up your curiosity, but just to explain why server-1.34 is a kind of an odd release.
[17:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Odd?
[17:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Nothing much will be said about what's in it, you mean?
[17:22] Andrew Linden: The project is important enough that server-1.34 will be branching off of 1.34, rather than the trunk codebase.
[17:23] Arawn Spitteler: Branching off 1.34?
[17:23] Andrew Linden: The reason for that is trunk has picked up some smaller projects and changes that they don't want to delay the improtant project.
[17:23] Andrew Linden: hence they are avoiding those changes, leaving them for 1.36
[17:23] Papa Popinjay: I'm sorry for the rearrange, but i must go.
[17:23] Andrew Linden: er... I meant branching off of 1.32
[17:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, if it's important, Isuppose that's a good thing.
[17:24] Arawn Spitteler: If we find 1.34 in Aditi, wo't that spill beans?
[17:24] Rex Cronon: tc
[17:24] Psi Merlin: Which makes it tricky to help test on Aditi without some clues as to what to look for.
[17:24] Andrew Linden: yes Arawn, it might spill the beans. Dunno what they are going to do about that.
[17:24] Sebastean Steamweaver: Will the change be that noticeable?
[17:24] Sebastean Steamweaver: Or is it more just something we'll notice if things go wrong?
[17:25] Andrew Linden: Not really. It isn't anything I find very interesting.
[17:26] Andrew Linden: and I think it is geared more for new residents rather than long-time residents
[17:26] Sebastean Steamweaver nods
[17:26] Andrew Linden: I've got some important bugs to fix -- some perms problems and some linkability bug.
[17:26] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oh
[17:26] Sebastean Steamweaver: That's what I wanted to metnion.
[17:26] You decline Club Zero Gravity from A group member named Ranchan Weidman.
[17:27] Andrew Linden: should I find fixes for those they would go into 1.34
[17:27] Arawn Spitteler: Disintegrating ball rookms?
[17:27] Sebastean Steamweaver: Linking is broken, yes :
[17:27] Arawn Spitteler: Is that SVC-5002?
[17:27] Linking rules for large objects broken under server 1.32
[17:27] Sebastean Steamweaver: That's it I think.
[17:27] Andrew Linden: yeah, that one
[17:27] s amazed that he rememberred it
[17:27] Sebastean Steamweaver: I was able to link things at a max distance of 30m
[17:27] Andrew Linden: I'm going to try to look into it tomorrow morning.
[17:27] Andrew Linden: it was on my list for today but I got sidetracked by something else
[17:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: I believe, the max distance is supposed to be soemwhere around 52m
[17:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: Is it 30*sqrt(2)?
[17:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: I can't remember.
[17:28] Andrew Linden: Yeah, that 52m sounds right
[17:29] topolina Verino: Greetings evryone
[17:29] Ardy Lay: Oskar Linden has expressed disappointment in the low lever of usage on Aditi.
[17:29] Rex Cronon: hi
[17:29] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Topolina, got any commissions, yet?
[17:29] topolina Verino: not yet still looking
[17:30] Ardy Lay: Low level meaning it's apparent that very little content testing is taking place.
[17:30] topolina Verino: i just need one
[17:30] Sebastean Steamweaver: Anyway, it's like the 30m limit isn't being multiplied by the modifier.
[17:30] Andrew Linden: it is actually something like 30 * sqrt(3) + 2
[17:30] topolina Verino: at least
[17:30] Sebastean Steamweaver: That may be it.
[17:30] Andrew Linden: er... that is what it is supposed to be
[17:30] Rex Cronon: i guess people need incetives to go to beta
[17:30] Rex Cronon: incentives*
[17:30] office hours is half over
[17:30] lonetorus Habilis: it would help if people did not have to recreate their content there
[17:30] Sebastean Steamweaver: Nah, that comes out to 111m -- but I'll be happy to take that :D
[17:30] Arawn Spitteler: There should be a sim crash party, each release, to test for loading
[17:30] Patnad Babii: could it be possible to aquire some land on the beta grid ?
[17:31] lonetorus Habilis: if they had access to current inventories, then it might be used more
[17:31] lonetorus Habilis: also, now that emerald has temp uplaods, that would stop even more ppl from going
[17:31] Sebastean Steamweaver: There are sandboxes everywhere Patnad - you probably wouldn't need to purchase land unless you were testing a bug.
[17:31] Rex Cronon: not only u have to reacreate it there, but once u make it work to have to recrate it when u come boack to the manin
[17:31] Ardy Lay: lonetorus Habilis, contact Oskar to get updated.
[17:31] Andrew Linden: Dan Linden had to change the name of the "Crash Me" region to "Don't Crash Me".
[17:31] Patnad Babii: well i might like to get some land for private purpose testing.. some place to keep some object i have
[17:31] lonetorus Habilis: on aditi?
[17:32] lonetorus Habilis: ^andrew
[17:32] Andrew Linden: People were crashing it and our #support and #grid_maintenance teams have some automated tools that were figuring out who was crashing regions and kicking them.
[17:32] lonetorus Habilis: i was wondering where crash me went on agni
[17:32] Ardy Lay: Ooops
[17:32] Rex Cronon: also on beta if u run out of funds u r introuble
[17:33] Andrew Linden: I think "Crash Me" on agni (main grid) was moved. On aditi (preview) it is still available.
[17:33] Andrew Linden: I think... gotta doublecheck my email.
[17:33] lonetorus Habilis: moved?
[17:33] Arawn Spitteler: Don't we get BL$5000 added to our accounts at snapsnot?
[17:33] lonetorus Habilis: and are we not supposed to crash it any more, kinda thought that was the whole purpose
[17:33] Andrew Linden: yeah, according to the email I got "Crash Me" has been moved to aditi (Preview grid)
[17:34] lonetorus Habilis: ah ok
[17:34] Arawn Spitteler: Longer return times, on the Sandboxes, would be nice, for Aditi
[17:34] Ardy Lay: ANY problems you have with using Adidi, take to Oskare Linden. He is asking for help making it more useful.
[17:34] Ardy Lay: Oskar Linden
[17:34] Andrew Linden: I think you can crash the one on aditi. We don't have as much automated scrutiny on aditi.
[17:35] Arawn Spitteler: The scutiny should still be automated, but unenforced, like volumedetect does for collisisons
[17:35] Andrew Linden: yes, you're supposed to get L$5000 on aditi
[17:35] Rex Cronon: some people didn't go to crashme to crash it, they were going there to test some thing that they were not sure if it would crash the sim or not. me included
[17:35] Andrew Linden: however, we no longer take big snapshots I think... they are taking too long
[17:36] Andrew Linden: we now have tools for migrating individuals to aditi
[17:36] Ardy Lay: Right.
[17:36] Ardy Lay: Again, if you need updated, tell Oskar.
[17:36] Andrew Linden: I don't know the channel for getting your aditi account/inventory updated
[17:37] Andrew Linden: Oskar Linden would probably be happy to help you.
[17:37] Arawn Spitteler woners if Oskar might automate that, to update without actually reading
[17:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: Andrew, I've updated the MISC-3077 JIRA. I put the "important" ones at critical, because there were one or two "major" ones I wasn't comfortable with putting down a grade. People tend to complain more about downgrading a JIRA than they do about upgrading it, hehe.
[17:37] Rex Cronon: try talkig to vektor linden
[17:37] Ardy Lay: If he gets enough IMs asking for updates he will work with Lil to automate.
[17:37] Fisher Linden: ha
[17:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hey there Fisher
[17:37] Fisher Linden: Hey
[17:37] Andrew Linden: Alternatively, if anyone really wanted to get to aditi you can send me email -- I can do it, but no gaurantees on how fast I'll be
[17:38] Arawn Spitteler: Aren't most of those really showstoppers?
[17:38] Andrew Linden: if it is during the weekday I can probably do it within a few hours
[17:38] Fisher Linden: I can also do it
[17:38] Sebastean Steamweaver: Of the MISC-3077s? Maybe, but I think critical is clear enough.
[17:38] Fisher Linden: But, Oskar is the guy
[17:38] Andrew Linden: Ok Sebastian, thanks for the prioritization
[17:38] Andrew Linden: Fisher can also update your aditi account.
[17:39] Arawn Spitteler wondersif Oskar is Bald and golden
[17:39] Arawn Spitteler: What does Fisher do, during working hours?
[17:39] Psi Merlin: We discussed inventory updates at beta hours today - as Ardy says ask Oskar . He was goting to discuss automation options with Lil .
[17:39] Fisher Linden: I'm never sure
[17:39] Fisher Linden: :-)
[17:39] Arawn Spitteler: Do you still get paid, if it's fun?
[17:40] Fisher Linden: It's a perq
[17:40] Andrew Linden: yeah there's an idea... always ask Oskar to update your aditi accounts. If he gets a flood of requests he'll automate it sooner.
[17:40] Ardy Lay: Hehe
[17:40] Fisher Linden: yep
[17:40] Ardy Lay: That's what he said.
[17:40] lonetorus Habilis: we tried that to get nyx to make a bear, but so far, no bear
[17:41] Andrew Linden: I'm too busy to automate it... I'll just start ignoring requests if they flood too high ;-)
[17:41] Psi Merlin: As Adry said Oskar's looking for people to test their content on Aditi and wants to help.
[17:42] Rex Cronon: it could be nice if could become sim owners on beta at least for one hour
[17:42] Rex Cronon: that is in case we need to test some terraforming:)
[17:42] Ardy Lay: Rex, there is a spon on Here that you can terraform.
[17:42] Ardy Lay: -spon + spot
[17:43] Rex Cronon: i did say "sim" owner
[17:43] Ardy Lay: Hi Simon
[17:43] Simon Linden: Hello everyone ... finally out of the meeting marathon
[17:43] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[17:43] Ardy Lay: You want to be a land owner?
[17:43] lonetorus Habilis: for testing raw files?
[17:43] Psi Merlin: Hi Simon
[17:43] Andrew Linden: Just in time for anothe meeting.
[17:43] Rex Cronon: what do u know. u just got to another one:)
[17:43] topolina Verino: hello
[17:44] Rex Cronon: and for other things:)
[17:44] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Simon, we were just hearing about the big changes in 1.34
[17:44] Rex Cronon: u don't really need a raw file to terraform:)
[17:44] Patnad Babii: beeing sim owner give you also access to the top script feature which could be handy to test in aditi
[17:44] Ardy Lay: Oh, you mean "estate owner"
[17:45] Arawn Spitteler: Isn't Terraform Me just beyohnd Jack's Island?
[17:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hmm, Falcon Linden linked an issue to 3077 - I guess I'll go ahead and up the priority on that one too.
[17:45] Patnad Babii: yeah or just manager actually would do
[17:45] Rex Cronon: right for top scripts:)
[17:45] Andrew Linden: Don't worry about that one Sebastian, it will get done regardless.
[17:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: All righty
[17:45] Rex Cronon: there is a terraforme sim on beta?
[17:46] Arawn Spitteler: Maybe a pillar, in Crash Me, for anyone who wants to be an estate manager, for an hour?
[17:46] Ardy Lay: Rex, I don't know but again, tell Oskar what you are seting and he will take care of it.
[17:46] Arawn Spitteler: There's a simnext to estate services, that can be terraformed, but I don't know the rules
[17:47] Arawn Spitteler: it's in this grid
[17:47] Rex Cronon: i don't need it right now, but sometimes in the not too far away future:)
[17:47] Arawn Spitteler: Terraforming Sandbox? Is that new?
[17:48] Andrew Linden: Here's a topic for discussion... one that has been kicked around in the lab over the years...
[17:48] Rex Cronon: megaprim revolution:)
[17:48] Sebastean Steamweaver: hehe
[17:48] Andrew Linden: We've got this "Premium Account" service. Some people opt into it, and others just use the service for free.
[17:48] Andrew Linden: Who here, if anyone, is Premium?
[17:48] Ardy Lay: I am.
[17:48] Rex Cronon: i am not:(
[17:48] Ardy Lay: Fury is.
[17:48] Patnad Babii: i am
[17:48] topolina Verino: I am with my alt zeusdinne
[17:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm not, I'd not really be able to afford it.
[17:49] Psi Merlin: I am
[17:49] Andrew Linden: For those who are, I'm curious to know what features of Premium made you opt for it?
[17:49] Fury Rosewood: im premium
[17:49] lonetorus Habilis: i am
[17:49] Fury Rosewood: i wanted money, and i donated my tier to lusk
[17:49] Ardy Lay: I was a land owner until recently.
[17:49] Patnad Babii: i had to buy land for my store..
[17:49] topolina Verino: well you have acces to submit tickets and forums
[17:49] Fury Rosewood: helps with land ownership
[17:49] Simon Linden: It's required for direct land ownership, I think
[17:49] topolina Verino: and buy land
[17:50] Patnad Babii: i also own some sim but its not required to have premium for that
[17:50] Andrew Linden: Ok, so land ownership, some better support options.
[17:50] topolina Verino: but now you can rent land without it in any places
[17:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: Your sim is probably owned by someone else, not LL Patnad
[17:50] Patnad Babii: no i own 3 sim myself
[17:50] Ardy Lay: The stipend is nice too.
[17:50] Rex Cronon: u mean like being able to IM an linden and have him/her come right away to help u:)
[17:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: Do you pay LL for them, Patnad?
[17:51] Andrew Linden: The question that has been kicked around the lab over the years is: "What extra services should we add that would help people choose the premium service?"
[17:51] lonetorus Habilis: at one office hour at qarl's my av ghost stuck in the sim, so i could not log in again, and i was not looking into the prospect of waiting a week or two for support to handle my ticket, so i became premium to get on live support, 5 minutes later jason linden swooped in and restarted the sim
[17:51] Patnad Babii: the stipend is pretty useless i mean you pay LL top dollar to get 300L$ in exchange..
[17:51] Andrew Linden: There are lots of throttles and limits on features in SL. Mostly to balance resources.
[17:51] Ardy Lay: Rex, no, you don't IM a Linden for personal service. Use the support portal on the web site.
[17:51] Andrew Linden: But perhaps some of those limits could be lifted for Premium. That's one idea that has been kicked around.
[17:52] Patnad Babii: maybe less inventory space for non-premium ?
[17:52] topolina Verino: ouch
[17:52] Patnad Babii: or more groups for premium ^^
[17:52] Andrew Linden: I don't have a list of stuff on hand, but that's just an example of how capabilities could be added to make Premium more attractive.
[17:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: I would rather pay LL $10 to open a free account, than that, personall.
[17:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: personally*
[17:52] Richard Untermeyer: perhaps a parcel of free land rather than just the entitlement to purchase it
[17:53] Andrew Linden: I was wondering if anyone here had ideas of things that you would like to have, and might be willing to pay premium for.
[17:53] Patnad Babii: well becoming premium give you 512sq free
[17:53] Patnad Babii: i mean you have free tier on 512sq
[17:53] Richard Untermeyer: still have to buy the land though patnad
[17:53] Simon Linden: Right, you get tier but not the land itself
[17:53] Richard Untermeyer: i mean actual free land
[17:53] Andrew Linden: Right, there is currently some free land, and a L$ stipend.
[17:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: If there was one thing that would entice me to become premium, it'd be the ability to purchase a homestead without having to own a full sim prior, but that's already a requirement for those who are premium.
[17:53] Arawn Spitteler: Free lnd?
[17:53] Patnad Babii: what about having avaline for free with premium ehe
[17:53] Andrew Linden: oh right, free tier
[17:53] Rex Cronon: andrew if u did a blog asking this question u would get a much better sampling than u can get from those present here and now:)
[17:54] Simon Linden: Right, better voice features
[17:54] lonetorus Habilis: anyone uses avaline?
[17:54] Andrew Linden: True Rex.
[17:54] Psi Merlin: Hight group limit is often mentioned
[17:54] Patnad Babii: or free charges on xstreet as it been announced we'll have to pay for every item features
[17:54] Fury Rosewood: i just use the tier to donate to a group, and it works perfectly for my needs
[17:54] lonetorus Habilis: i agree on better features on xstreet
[17:54] Andrew Linden: Some of these ideas have already been mentioned internally.
[17:54] Andrew Linden: I think the Xstreet charge one is new to me.
[17:54] topolina Verino: high group sounds good
[17:55] topolina Verino: well deeding land to a group has its pros and cons
[17:55] office hours is almost over
[17:55] Rex Cronon: if premium would have simpler/easier/faster way to change L$ to monies and RL currency it might help some switch to premium
[17:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: groupd need to be fixed before they're rationed.
[17:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: groups*
[17:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: Like, having service-dedicated groups.
[17:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: Groups for chat, groups for land rights, groups for notifications, etc.
[17:56] Patnad Babii: yeah why does it take 8 days to send money back to paypal its still hard for me to understand :/
[17:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: Have services be opt-in.
[17:56] Andrew Linden: Personally, I'm not interested in nickle-and-diming the residents --> premium features should be ones that actually cost more to support
[17:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: I agree with that wholeheartedly.
[17:56] lonetorus Habilis: agreed
[17:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: Frankly, I come here to pay my bills, not generate more of them.
[17:57] Andrew Linden: if a change makes the whole system more efficient and the system easier to use then it should be made available to everyone
[17:57] Andrew Linden: so simpler/easier ways to to change L$ to monies should be a global improvement
[17:57] topolina Verino: deeing land to a group has pros and cons
[17:57] Sebastean Steamweaver: Definitely
[17:58] Rex Cronon: i heard that some people get on their bank statements that they r making payments to a game site:)
[17:58] Richard Untermeyer: how terrible :)
[17:59] Andrew Linden: For example... script resources. Suppose we had smarter script resource balancing. Premium might give people are larger relative pecentage of the pie, or slightly better prioritization.
[17:59] Andrew Linden: Because script resources are something that cost real CPU cycles.
[17:59] Arawn Spitteler: Send the bank E-Mail, advising htem how profitable this game-site is, as soon as refer-A-Friend is replaced
[17:59] Patnad Babii: yes i tend to agree with that it make sense
[17:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, the problem I have with that is, say, you have X person who is a premium account, develop a script.
[17:59] Patnad Babii: but.. you know some ppl leaving in europe by example, they live on estate sims.. where they might have tons of scripts..
[17:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: They sell that script, and someone on a basic account uses it, and it breaks.
[18:00] Rex Cronon: u mean that everybody that is not premium will be lagged to death:(
[18:00] Andrew Linden: good point Sebastian
[18:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: The person who developed it is expecting it to work, so is the person on the basic account.
[18:00] Patnad Babii: that might make them change their mind and opt for a premium account
[18:00] Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
[18:00] Richard Untermeyer: and i think one of the great things about SL is that a free user can enjoy sl almost exactly the same way as a premium account, without being throttled in any way
[18:01] Simon Linden: No, we'd all share the lag as usual ... but if we actually allocated script/cpu resources on a per-avatar basis, we could offer a bigger slice for premium accounts
[18:01] Simon Linden: So you could wear more bling
[18:01] Richard Untermeyer: lol
[18:01] Andrew Linden: Well... lack of throttles in some places is a cause of lag and problems.
[18:01] Rex Cronon: how r newbies going to learn scripting if all their scripts r lagging:(
[18:01] Simon Linden: But we do really need the tools so developers can see the cost of what they make
[18:01] Andrew Linden: Yes, the possibility space is large, even for free accounts.
[18:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: I think Richard makes a good point.
[18:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: PEople aren't going to want to stay if their first experience as a free user is a bad one.
[18:02] Arawn Spitteler: Can Parcel Owners see Top Scripts?
[18:02] Patnad Babii: also i think that if tier would be lower, on mainland this would bring more ppl to get premium as well
[18:02] Simon Linden: fwiw all the suggestions I've heard so far are boosting abilities of premium acconnts, not dropping limits on free ones
[18:02] Arawn Spitteler: There's an idea, allow estate holders to limit scripts to premium users only
[18:02] Andrew Linden: ok, well thanks for the discussion. There aren't any serious clamping-down on free accounts in the pipeline. I was just curious about any ideas you all might have.
[18:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Uh . . .
[18:03] topolina Verino: i think you can see if some scripts are causing lag troubles as far as i remember
[18:03] Rex Cronon: exectp the part that restricts cpu access time:(
[18:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: I would wholeheartedly disagree with that one. Being able to limit scripts to premium accounts only.
[18:03] Simon Linden: That's probably going to happen regardless of the premium benefits, as we've seen things get really unbalanced for parcel owners and people in a region
[18:03] Andrew Linden: How about some LSL calls that only premium accounts can compile (their compiled scripts still work for all owners)?
[18:04] Richard Untermeyer: i suppose the ultimate one would be content creation only for premium accounts but i wouldn't really support that
[18:04] Patnad Babii: uhm like which calls? llHttp and http-in by example or email ?
[18:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: What kinds of calls do you refer to?
[18:04] Simon Linden: I don't think we'd want to cut back on the current ability to build now for free accounts
[18:04] Arawn Spitteler: We have Pseudo Premies, now, who rent from other estates than mainland
[18:04] Richard Untermeyer: no
[18:04] Rex Cronon: andrew how r custom scripters going to be able to do cutom works if they don't have access to all the lsl functions?
[18:04] Patnad Babii: that could make sense.. but limit some user too
[18:05] Andrew Linden: That "premium only LSL calls" idea is a sort of bifurcation of the content creation set -- some get access and others do not.
[18:05] Arawn Spitteler: Longer Sandbox times?
[18:05] Andrew Linden: Right Rex, they'd have to go Premium to get access to the whole set under that idea.
[18:05] lonetorus Habilis: or how are basic accounts supposed to do advanced volunteer script work for things like burning life
[18:05] Arawn Spitteler: Premium Users don't need sandboxes at all, though
[18:05] Sebastean Steamweaver: Heh, estate side windlight for premium accounts :P
[18:06] Andrew Linden: No, estate windlight should work for all estate owners, and the effects should be visible to all.
[18:06] Simon Linden: I have to run ... thanks for all the ideas.
[18:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oh, I was talking about the ability to control it.
[18:06] Ardy Lay: Premium account holders do not all own land.
[18:06] Arawn Spitteler: How about, Estate Side Windlight for anybody, but only adjustable by estate managers?
[18:06] Simon Linden: See you next time folks
[18:06] Richard Untermeyer: thanks Simon
[18:06] Patnad Babii: ok see you Simon ㋡
[18:06] Cerdita Piek: Thanks, Simon, take care
[18:06] Andrew Linden: Right Arawn, thats how it should work.
[18:06] topolina Verino: sometimes is fun use them to meet people to help you sort building questions
[18:06] Fury Rosewood: seeya simon
[18:06] Rex Cronon: i kind have a bad feeling that restricting access to specific lsl functions will become true:(
[18:06] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[18:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: I don't knw rex
[18:07] topolina Verino: yes is sad
[18:07] Patnad Babii: having more groups can make more ppl opt in also
[18:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: I personally would be leerie of that one.
[18:07] Andrew Linden: Possibly Rex, but there are no plans for that yet.
[18:07] Patnad Babii: i know there is a huge list of ppl who would like that
[18:07] Andrew Linden: I don't even have a good idea on what specific example calls would be in that pool.
[18:07] Arawn Spitteler: More Groups would be good for Premium Sales, and for Lindens who hold Office Hours
[18:07] Andrew Linden: Presumeably it would be "expensive" or "powerful" calls.
[18:08] Sebastean Steamweaver: WEll, Andrew, there's a problem with that too.
[18:08] Sebastean Steamweaver: Let's say a premium scripter creates a script and sells a lot of them to people.
[18:08] Patnad Babii: also removing fee of xstreet listing when your premium.. can be nice idea to make ppl opt-in
[18:08] topolina Verino waves farewell and poofes
[18:08] Rex Cronon: the things is that scripters for higher will become a thing of the past
[18:08] Andrew Linden: yeah, I've got to run.
[18:08] Sebastean Steamweaver: You said that the compiled script would work regardless of owner.
[18:08] Andrew Linden: Thanks for the discussion.
[18:08] Sebastean Steamweaver: So you could have a lot of people running around using those expensive calls.
[18:08] Richard Untermeyer: thanks Andrew
[18:08] Fisher Linden: thanks
[18:08] Patnad Babii: thank you Andrew have a good night
[18:08] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
[18:08] Cerdita Piek: Thanks, Andrew, take care
[18:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thanks andrew
[18:09] Patnad Babii: thanks Fisher ㋡
[18:09] Arawn Spitteler: TeleportAgent might only be callable by parcel owner
[18:09] Patnad Babii: take care everyone, good night !
[18:09] Rex Cronon: tc patnad

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