User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2009 01 21

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Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[7:58] Babbage Linden: afternoon all

[7:58] Nock Forager: Hi hello

[7:58] Babbage Linden: yes arawn

[7:59] Arawn Spitteler: Sometimes I rotate a little, but I see myself, and the gear I sit on, as still.

[7:59] Arawn Spitteler's on 1.22.5, if that's any help: I just moved a little; maybe the viewer is sensitive, to whether I'm selected.

[8:00] Babbage Linden: let's give people a couple of minutes to turn up

[8:00] Ayumi Cassini: hello everyone

[8:00] Soph Oh: hi all

[8:00] Gypsy Paz: selected? selecting an object will stop the targetomega

[8:00] Arawn Spitteler: In this case, I sometimes rotate.

[8:00] Sql Miles: hello

[8:01] Babbage Linden: hello

[8:01] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming

[8:01] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, Babbage, a couple of HTTP In Issues, in Beta

[8:01] Babbage Linden: we'll just give people a couple of minutes to turn up

[8:02] Arawn Spitteler: HTTP In Sandbox 1 and 2 are closed, failing to grant capabilities, and I don't know of that's a technical or admin issue. It might even be a SVC-3660 iussue.

[8:03] Arawn Spitteler: Also, the log in page ofr the Preview Grid has a list of Beta Projectrs, and HTTP In isn't liested.

[8:03] Babbage Linden: thanks arawn, it's probably an aditi configuration problem

[8:03] Babbage Linden: i'll let prospero know

[8:03] Arawn Spitteler: It's been over a week

[8:04] Babbage Linden: so, are there any things that people would like to talk about today?

[8:04] Arawn Spitteler: Ghosted Perms hav been appenin lately, as another problem

[8:04] Ruuh Cassini: Hi Babbage ... I have something about the slx and onrez

[8:04] Ruuh Cassini: :)

[8:05] Babbage Linden: i don't know much about that ruuh

[8:06] Ruuh Cassini: ok .. it was going to be just feedback as opposed to a question, if there is someone else better suited at LL, I'll let them know ... T Linden?

[8:06] Gypsy Paz: ooo.. I just showed up to listen in, but accually I do have a question that is prolly way off topic, but is anything going on behind the scenes with puppeteer development?

[8:06] Babbage Linden: T or M or Everett would be good people to talk to, what's the feedback?

[8:07] Ayumi Cassini would like to hear more about puppeteering too

[8:08] Babbage Linden: i'm not aware of any work going on with puppeteering

[8:08] Babbage Linden: i think we open sourced it a while ago

[8:08] Babbage Linden: but i don't think there is any development happening on it internally

[8:08] Arawn Spitteler: Is Puppetteering even a linden issue? I thought it somebody's bright idea

[8:09] Gypsy Paz: yeah, that last wiki post ( pretty old now ) said development was on hold

[8:09] Gypsy Paz: would be very nice to have in here though

[8:09] Gypsy Paz: LSL driving dyamic animations!!!! ;)

[8:09] Ruuh Cassini: I was going to say, as a merchant who has used both slx and onrez, I prefer the mass editing ability that is on onrez, as well as the Tiny MCE text input interface (saves on the bbcode) ... so I hope XStreet incorporates that. ... and if there is somert of vendor system created like the onrez, I like the setup but don;t like that it doesn't allow you to give notecards :(. That's all

[8:10] Ruuh Cassini: some sort* (that should say)

[8:10] Valiant Westland: Interesting that you brought that subject up Ruuh

[8:10] Elbereth Witte: I liked that there was a sliver of competition in the marketing market

[8:10] Ruuh Cassini: No problem

[8:10] Babbage Linden: puppetteering was jeff ventrella's project while he was at linden for a while

[8:11] Gypsy Paz: oic

[8:11] Babbage Linden: thanks ruuh

[8:11] Babbage Linden: i agree

[8:11] Arawn Spitteler posits a pun, on the Ventrella Quest

[8:11] Babbage Linden: i think there are big plans for expanding xstreet

[8:11] Ruuh Cassini: :-)

[8:11] Valiant Westland: Now that LL is buying XStreet and ONREZ, what are the plans API's that allow 3rd-party web-based transactions?

[8:12] Babbage Linden: i'm not sure valiant

[8:12] Valiant Westland: We are PayPal / eBay developers and would like to see the same type of rich development environment and API's that we have on that platform!

[8:13] Gypsy Paz: yeah, an API would be awesome, have all our inventorys fed from that instead of having to do them twice on our own websites

[8:14] Valiant Westland: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=developer/home_US

[8:14] Nock Forager: Ah I want to ping you all about recent changes on llGetInventoryKey. Hashed key things.

[8:15] Nock Forager: Prospero Linden's comments on SVC-3670

[8:15] Arawn Spitteler: What'sa Hassed Key?

[8:15] WolfPup Lowenhar: it is where the uuid of a inventory item is scrambled

[8:16] Nock Forager: yes WolPup.

[8:16] Arawn Spitteler: Is that supposed to be useful for anything?

[8:16] Nock Forager: It'll effects some scripts.

[8:16] Nock Forager: Such as version check.

[8:17] Nock Forager: mono binary difference check.

[8:17] Valiant Westland: So Babbage, who is the person in LL to tag for more information on the transaction infrastructure?

[8:17] WolfPup Lowenhar: was listing to CG aboput it yesterday and the 1.25.4 is supposed to help some with that

[8:18] Ruuh Cassini: Oh yeah, one other thing about slx I would like to see ... Though I understand that the LL brand will be reflected on the slx website, it would be nice to be abole to customise our individual shops on there :)

[8:18] Babbage Linden: arawn, you could use it to check for changes in inventory by comparing hashed keys to a stored set

[8:19] Elbereth Witte: wow, I didn't realize they were breaking that, I just starting poking at the use of it

[8:19] Babbage Linden: valiant, T or M

[8:19] Valiant Westland: Thank you Babbage!

[8:20] WolfPup Lowenhar: there is a partial fix for the hashing issue in the new sever rollout

[8:20] Arawn Spitteler: Why not just examine the keys? If we rez a no copy inventory item, we whould be able to ascertain which.

[8:21] WolfPup Lowenhar: arawn right now the keys are getting scrambled

[8:21] Babbage Linden: i think finding the keys allowed an exploit, looking at prospero's comments

[8:21] Babbage Linden: but i'm not sure of the details

[8:22] Elbereth Witte: apparently godlikerez was available in some form to average residents?

[8:22] WolfPup Lowenhar: arawn you might want yo go read the log for CG's office hours yesterday

[8:22] Ruuh Cassini: I have a scripting question too, is it possible for an object that is not touched to give a teleport (not opening the map, but to give the blue dialog teleport menu) ... in case it is scripted to move to certain coordinates and then the owner can get to it easily?

[8:23] Arawn Spitteler'll have to examine the logs, as log-ins were messed up, yesterday.

[8:25] Arawn Spitteler wonders if Map-Spam has ever been an issue: I don't even know howto open a map, but it shouldn't depend on Touch Specifically.

[8:25] Imaze Rhiano: Ruuh - no

[8:25] Elbereth Witte: the map function is last I saw really disruptive to the client view

[8:26] Babbage Linden: not sure ruuh, all the teleporters i've seen have used sitting

[8:26] Gypsy Paz: yeah, for a short time they had llMapDestiantation() open the landmark style window instead of the map, that was really nice and went above 1000 meters, but they rolled it back ;(

[8:27] Babbage Linden: giving landmarks is pretty simple

[8:27] Elbereth Witte: makes spam of my landmarks folder

[8:27] Gypsy Paz: yeah, but then you get fill up your folders, plus have to click the accept button

[8:28] Imaze Rhiano: How is script metric code coming together?

[8:28] Ruuh Cassini: This one is more a feature request I guess .. I should put it on the pjira :-) (I made a boat which has furniture as addon packs, and each addon pack is in a rez faux rezzer which has a homing script to make it auto position correctly in relation to original build .. which could be at other end of the sim .. hence I ask)

[8:29] Babbage Linden: the script metric code is in 1.25

[8:29] Babbage Linden: alex has gathered some priliminary data from the pilot regions and it all seems to be working

[8:30] Babbage Linden: the great news is that 10% of the scripts in the pilot regions are running on mono

[8:30] Babbage Linden: which is great adoption after only a few months

[8:30] WolfPup Lowenhar: i know anything i script i do in mono

[8:30] Babbage Linden: we'll see what the results are from the entire grid soon

[8:30] Babbage Linden: we're also going to try to dig in to the normal background turnover of scripts

[8:31] Elbereth Witte: scripting while in inventory forces LSL2

[8:31] WolfPup Lowenhar: i even recently was given an open souced server based vending system ans i converted all the scripts to mono

[8:31] Babbage Linden: if 10% of scripts turn over in 6 months anyway, then 10% mono use wouldn't be remarkable given that it's the default when editing scripts in world

[8:31] Babbage Linden: if the background turnover is 5% then that would show a big adoption of mono

[8:32] Babbage Linden: hmm, interesting elbereth, we should default that to mono

[8:32] Elbereth Witte: I understand the sim needs to compile it, so I can see how the client would manage to ignore that and compile the LSL on its own

[8:33] WolfPup Lowenhar: i think the viewer will default to mono if you have puropsly writen a script in mono

[8:33] Arawn Spitteler: Mono is slow to compile, Servr Side, and we'll soon need a way, to save without checking for Syntax.

[8:33] Elbereth Witte: it forcefully reverts it last I saw

[8:34] Arawn Spitteler: Inventory Scipting doesn't offer Mono as an option.

[8:34] Elbereth Witte: mono crompile isn't just slow, it causes timedilation for a reasonably long period of time

[8:34] Arawn Spitteler ponders the new grifing mde.

[8:34] Babbage Linden: arawn, we have a project planned to look in to time dilation caused by compilation

[8:34] Arawn Spitteler: We can now harrass people, by hol ding scripting classes next to ther malls.

[8:35] Babbage Linden: for now yes, but i'd rather you didn't ;-)

[8:35] Kyrah Abattoir: that doesn't sound like a bad thing Arawn...

[8:35] Arawn Spitteler's more concerned with Quick Saves

[8:35] WolfPup Lowenhar: now of one place if you try to do that you would get booted if you could even get on the sim

[8:36] Babbage Linden: arawn, compiling on the server side is much less prone to exploits

[8:36] Babbage Linden: but we do need to make sure it's reasonably quick and doesn't impact other services

[8:37] Arawn Spitteler: But slw, and interferes with Saving, if you have to close quickly.

[8:37] Babbage Linden: i don't find the latency to be too bad personally

[8:37] Kyrah Abattoir: i actually was worried as my sim'zs fps and time dilation where jumoing allover the place each time i saved a script

[8:37] Arawn Spitteler: Also, we might want to save incomplete scripts.

[8:37] Kyrah Abattoir: jumping

[8:38] Babbage Linden: saving incomplete scripts still works

[8:38] Babbage Linden: the source code is saved even if the compilation fails

[8:38] Kyrah Abattoir: as long as ther eis a syntax error, else it compile it

[8:40] Arawn Spitteler: Options to check for syntax, or not to bother trying, might behandy. I don't know, why compilaion would take a lt of server times, though.

[8:40] Babbage Linden: it's a lot about creating new processes arawn

[8:41] Babbage Linden: the project we have planned will move the compilation script to wsgi

[8:41] Babbage Linden: which will avoid creating a new python interpretter each time we compile

[8:41] Arawn Spitteler: wsgi?

[8:41] WolfPup Lowenhar: it can be dificult to fix what there is but trying to get a new process in on the serverside of SL takes time

[8:42] Babbage Linden: but the script will still need to create the LSLC compiler process

[8:42] Arawn Spitteler: What i meantby Prcess?

[8:43] Babbage Linden: a process on the linux host running the sim

[8:44] Arawn Spitteler: Keyboard's been slow, lately, increasing the number of typoes to my usual literary care. I understand it's known issue. Is a compilation process more time consuming, that a collision check?

[8:45] Babbage Linden: yes, lots

[8:45] WolfPup Lowenhar: if you bring up the task manager on a windows based system and click the prosesses tab you can see the same basic thing it is a list of running programs

[8:45] Kyrah Abattoir: speaking of collision, curiously it seems even with havok 4 the sims are still very sensible to physics...

[8:45] Kyrah Abattoir: that's to be expected?

[8:46] Arawn Spitteler recalls H4 is to reduce Physics Crashes, rather han inreasing Physics Speed.

[8:46] Elbereth Witte: physics will probably always have a significant load associated with certain collision arrangements

[8:46] Arawn Spitteler: I'd ak aboutthat at Andre's Hour.

[8:46] Kyrah Abattoir: hrm -_- no chance to ever see this improve slightly?

[8:46] Elbereth Witte: the worst case secanrios have been mitigated nicely since H4 I think

[8:46] Arawn Spitteler: Much Chance, if the Hasrdwarre or software improve.

[8:48] Babbage Linden: we've been making some progess on scripting issues this week

[8:49] Babbage Linden: now that we've finished work on the first iteration of the scalable space services project

[8:49] Babbage Linden: we'll be working on scripting fixes for the next week or so before we start the next project

[8:49] Babbage Linden: so, if you come across any new bugs, or repros for existing bugs, please file them in jira

[8:50] Fake Fitzgerald: I've reported 1 issue, maybe low priority

[8:50] Fake Fitzgerald: SVC-3683

[8:52] Babbage Linden: in particular we'd like to know about SVC-2908

[8:52] Babbage Linden: which we've been having reports about still occuring in 1.25

[8:53] Babbage Linden: but it only seems to occur when lots of script activity is occuring, which makes it hard to repro

[8:53] Babbage Linden: if we could have a script which we can add to a box to reproduce it that would be great

[8:53] Babbage Linden: at the moment it's hard for us to work on

[8:55] Babbage Linden: ok, i have another meeting in at 9

[8:55] Babbage Linden: any last thoughts or questions?

[8:56] Arawn Spitteler wonders what would be needed, to see the Primatar

[8:56] Gypsy Paz: ok, thanks Babbage ;)

[8:56] Imaze Rhiano: thanks Babbage

[8:56] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming everyone, hope to see you next week

[8:57] Ayumi Cassini: thanks Babbage, see you

[8:57] Nock Forager: seeya in next week.

[8:57] Fake Fitzgerald: thanks Babbage, see you next week