User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Aug 09

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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:06] Squirrel Wood: Hello Benjamin
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: hi there Squirrel
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: and Wyn
[15:06] Benja Kepler: hi Benjamin
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: hi Benja and Saijanai
[15:06] Dale Glass: hiya :-)
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith: Hello Benjamin.
[15:07] Squirrel Wood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTaEi8mYvJw ^^
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: sorry I'm running a little late
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: meetings after meetings today
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith: It's been a late day for Lindens. And I've got a picture of Ruth'dRob.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: hey Dale
[15:07] Saijanai Kuhn: /sok Zero was only 40 minutes late this morning
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith didn't make Zero's cause it wasnt there.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: Rob is very scary when he's ruthed
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith: for me anyway.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: wow 40 minutes that's really late! :-)
[15:07] Dale Glass: hehehe, I had a screenshot of Rob for some time
[15:08] Dale Glass: btw, is ruthing filed as a bug?
[15:08] Dale Glass: and did anybody try to fix it?
[15:08] Wyn Galbraith: Not a bug really.
[15:08] Dale Glass: what do you mean not a bug?
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: Ruth is an interesting issue
[15:08] Wyn Galbraith: More of a timing issue.
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: it is the default avatar shape
[15:08] Wyn Galbraith: Ruth is like a placeholder.
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: and you appear as ruth until your shape is loaded into the client
[15:09] Dale Glass: right, so why not re-request the shape if it doesn't arrive?
[15:09] Benja Kepler: yes, as babies are female until secondary ....
[15:09] Benjamin Linden: but there has been a lot of discussion internally about how to come up with a better default avatar
[15:09] Wyn Galbraith: So usually you don't see your Ruthiness unless it's slow to update.
[15:09] Benja Kepler: characteristics appear
[15:09] Wyn Galbraith: Or make an avatar that's Ruth
[15:09] Dale Glass: I don't have much of a problem with Ruth as a default. The problem is it being permanent
[15:10] Wyn Galbraith had a nightmare she was attacked by a group of Ruth'd Zombies.
[15:10] Benjamin Linden: yes, I guess sometimes the shape fails to load
[15:10] Benjamin Linden: lol @ Wyn
[15:10] Dale Glass: I shouldn't have to do things like jumping 300m in the air to force reloading, it should figure it out by itself
[15:11] Squirrel Wood: Woo! Our development team has identified the issue and are currently working on a fix.
[15:12] Saijanai Kuhn: was that distorted?
[15:12] Benjamin Linden: where did you see that Squirrel?
[15:12] Squirrel Wood: blog.
[15:12] Benjamin Linden: oh the network issues?
[15:12] Squirrel Wood: ye
[15:12] Benjamin Linden: yes, wow what a week
[15:12] Benja Kepler: paranoia is a key feature in SL: when I was first ruthed I thought it was a griefing, but everyone I spoke to said it couldn't be... unless...and so conspiracies are born
[15:12] Wyn Galbraith: [14:15] Soft Linden: Wyn - try deselecting Client->Rendering->Nightmare Scenario
[15:12] Dale Glass: LOL
[15:12] Wyn Galbraith: That was Soft's suggestion about the nightmare.
[15:13] Dale Glass: I think paranoia is a good feature in coding. If it can fail, handle it gracefully, even if unlikely
[15:13] Benja Kepler: could be a problem in the German version as I think trauma means dream
[15:13] Squirrel Wood: nono. Traum = Dream
[15:13] Wyn Galbraith: Oh that's the suggestion I wanted to make, a reset for the viewer.
[15:13] Benjamin Linden: have folks had a chance to try out Voice?
[15:13] Benja Kepler: well.....close-ish
[15:14] Saijanai Kuhn: did that come through?
[15:14] Benja Kepler: er, do you want voice now?
[15:14] Dale Glass: Benjamin, sorta. Running SLVoice.exe under wine, as I'm a Linux user
[15:14] Dale Glass: getting awful dropouts
[15:14] Dale Glass: but other than that and 100% CPU usage I suppose it works
[15:14] Benjamin Linden: no, I don't have my headset on at the moment
[15:14] Benja Kepler: hi Latizia
[15:14] Laetizia Coronet: evening all
[15:14] Benjamin Linden: it has been very choppy
[15:14] Squirrel Wood: voice is mostly all chopped up. yes.
[15:14] Benjamin Linden: hi there Laetizia
[15:14] Laetizia Coronet: yes I hear you
[15:14] Laetizia Coronet: I have no headset though
[15:15] Benjamin Linden: I see you guys talking :-)
[15:15] Laetizia Coronet: Wyn is hardly audible here
[15:15] Squirrel Wood: might need to set the proper imput device ?
[15:15] Laetizia Coronet: that you Dale, the translator?
[15:15] Dale Glass: translator?
[15:15] Benjamin Linden: in any case, I'm probably not going to run my office hours in voice, at least for now
[15:15] Dale Glass: that's me
[15:15] Benjamin Linden: it's nice to have transcripts
[15:16] Squirrel Wood: I know that MorphVOX installs its own virtual "input" driver/device
[15:16] Benjamin Linden: and to be able to follow multiple threads
[15:16] Laetizia Coronet: it sounds like a slow talking man
[15:16] Saijanai Kuhn: o well
[15:16] Benja Kepler: good point - you'd have to have podcast transcriptions done thru mechanical turk or sommat
[15:16] Laetizia Coronet: lol
[15:16] Benjamin Linden: hopefully we'll get the technical issues smoothed out
[15:16] Squirrel Wood: I'm sure about that :)
[15:17] Dale Glass: hm, my voice is fairly deep I think, but I also have an awful microphone and a very non-standard way of getting voice to work
[15:17] Dale Glass: probably adds up
[15:17] Laetizia Coronet: let me walk over to Wyn to hear her, Dale is so much louder
[15:17] Benjamin Linden: I haven't been checking the forums for feedback lately, how're people reacting to the Communicate window?
[15:17] Laetizia Coronet: Wyn still very soft
[15:17] Dale Glass: Benjamin, still quite badly
[15:17] Dale Glass: people on sldev did work on replacements
[15:18] Benjamin Linden: I did see that thread
[15:18] Benjamin Linden: but I haven't seen what Nicholaz did
[15:18] Squirrel Wood: the communicate window seems to be a much hated feature from the posts I've seen
[15:18] Benjamin Linden: we are planning to make the Contacts window removeable
[15:18] Laetizia Coronet: I like it, but it's too frickin big
[15:18] Benjamin Linden: and change the orientation of the Friends/Groups tab
[15:19] Wyn Galbraith: Laetizia, use the button to the left of the talk button for active speakers. They adjust the volume of each speaker, that you want to hear, up a couple of notches.
[15:19] Dale Glass: about the window, I'm considering a redesign of the internals here
[15:19] Saijanai Kuhn: also.. you need to add text sizing back in. It went away with the First Look and these poor old eyes are constantly squnting
[15:19] Laetizia Coronet: ah right ty
[15:19] Benjamin Linden: where were the text-sizing features, Saijanai?
[15:20] Laetizia Coronet: lmao
[15:20] Laetizia Coronet: I hope she does... I have a VERYU loud voice :D
[15:20] Benjamin Linden: Dale, what improvements are you hoping to make?
[15:20] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Tizia!
[15:20] Dale Glass: I want to improve logging among other things
[15:20] Saijanai Kuhn: under preferences chat
[15:20] Laetizia Coronet: I've been known to silence a jam packed jazz bar with the mike off :)
[15:20] Dale Glass: one of my problems is that by the time things get to the log, they're already formatted
[15:20] Wyn Galbraith idles a moment, RL interruptus
[15:20] Neo Flight (Super speed): All Go
[15:21] Saijanai Kuhn: preferences => text chat
[15:21] Laetizia Coronet: yeah me too Sai
[15:21] Dale Glass: So I'd make chat history to be made of objects in a list, instead of a text dump
[15:21] Dale Glass: so for example you could change the text color and rebuild the whole log with that
[15:21] Benjamin Linden: oh you're talking about the underlying code
[15:21] Dale Glass: yeah
[15:21] Benjamin Linden: ok
[15:22] Dale Glass: part of the reason is logging things like owners of objects
[15:22] Benjamin Linden: there are lots of issues with the chat logs (like no time stamps), although I think that's been worked on
[15:22] Dale Glass: see, I want ot make identification possible without losing info
[15:22] Laetizia Coronet: and the newest craze - sound griefing
[15:22] Dale Glass: by the time you turn the option to log the owner on, the object might have stopped speaking already
[15:23] Dale Glass: so the solution would be keeping all that data around, so that you can retroactively apply changes
[15:23] Squirrel Wood: sound griefing... chadrick said to report such stuff. the more people report it, the better
[15:24] Dale Glass: the reason for implementing this is that people do things like what I describe here: http://daleglass.wordpress.com/2007/08/09/silencing-the-voice-of-god/
[15:24] Benjamin Linden: has there been a lot of sound griefing?
[15:24] Saijanai Kuhn: even with the old resizing it was too msall. I need extra large text or even XXL text
[15:24] Laetizia Coronet: well I think there's an increase
[15:24] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[15:24]  Connected
[15:24] Benjamin Linden: Saijanai are you saying that there was a feature that got removed?
[15:25] Laetizia Coronet: not the simple Hooo! things but just long repeated music tunes, screams etc
[15:25] Squirrel Wood: its easy enough to connect the stereo mix to the mic input and then just playing annoying stuff really loud to annoy people
[15:25] Squirrel Wood: and the distance you can be heard at is quite long
[15:25] Dale Glass: microphone to speaker is an easy one
[15:25] Dale Glass: makes a very annoying sound
[15:25] Laetizia Coronet: Maybe we should have an option to separately silence ambient sounds in the viewer
[15:26] lufpleh Obstreperous: you can reduce/turn off ambient volume already
[15:26] Laetizia Coronet: also good during griefer spam attacks
[15:26] Benjamin Linden: there already is an option to turn down ambient sounds
[15:26] Laetizia Coronet: oops, where?
[15:26] Dale Glass: I'm working on the spam attacks :-)
[15:26] Squirrel Wood: bottom right click the speaker icon
[15:26] Benjamin Linden: if you click on the little speaker button in the lower right
[15:26] Dale Glass: tracked one down yesterday
[15:26] lufpleh Obstreperous: just click the speaker symbol next to volume slider bottom right
[15:26] Laetizia Coronet: ah right, that's for ambient, ty
[15:26] Benjamin Linden: or in Preferences->Audio
[15:27] Dale Glass: now will build the tracking functionality into my viewer
[15:27] Wyn Galbraith is back.
[15:27] Laetizia Coronet: yeah but that's too slow, you'd want it rready
[15:28] Laetizia Coronet: ...
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: Laetizia, I love your hair
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: (sorry, off-topic)
[15:29] lufpleh Obstreperous: lae, if someone is spamming voice you can always MUTE them quickly from Active Speakers window
[15:29] Laetizia Coronet: thanks Benjamin, bought it yesterday :)
[15:29] Saijanai Kuhn: still a slow speaking guy, eh?
[15:29] Laetizia Coronet: thanks luf
[15:29] Wyn Galbraith loves the hair too.
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: oh hi lufpleh
[15:30] Benjamin Linden: I didn't see you sneak in :-)
[15:30] lufpleh Obstreperous: Hi benjamin :)
[15:30] Saijanai Kuhn: so no girlie voce from me, eh?
[15:30] Dale Glass: oh yeah, about that
[15:30] Laetizia Coronet: It's from Booperfunk, one of the few (?) afro shops.
[15:30] Wyn Galbraith: Lufpleh has a nice accent.
[15:30] Benjamin Linden: Booperfunk, nice
[15:30] Dale Glass: Benjamin, I think the update speed of flexible objects slows down as there are more of them, right?
[15:30] Benjamin Linden: hmm I'm not sure about that Dale
[15:31] Benjamin Linden: Have any of you been getting the Resident Satisfaction survey?
[15:31] Squirrel Wood: I have seen flexiprims freeze.... and nothing but a client restart would fix that
[15:31] Laetizia Coronet: no
[15:31] Wyn Galbraith: No.
[15:31] Dale Glass: well, I notice that with a lot of them framerate doesn't go down, they just update a lot slower and worse
[15:31] Saijanai Kuhn: yes, and I found it totally unsatisfactory...
[15:31] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:31] Saijanai Kuhn: seriously, I had trouble filing out the comments
[15:31] Benjamin Linden: what happened, Saijanai?
[15:31] Wyn Galbraith: Well let me check my mail for the avatar. I have to change mail accounts.
[15:31] lufpleh Obstreperous: agree with Squirrel, you can hear voice over far to great a distance, would like spatial effect to attenute more with distance
[15:32] Saijanai Kuhn: iclicked the button, then tried to select the text box for input but couldn't.
[15:32] Benja Kepler: ah no, because I have been logging in with a shortcut with command line login details so it bypasses the start screen
[15:32] Laetizia Coronet: I find voice to be detached from graphics
[15:32] Laetizia Coronet: but maybe that is just getting used to
[15:33] Benjamin Linden: what do you mean by that Laetizia?
[15:33] Wyn Galbraith didn't get one.
[15:33] Laetizia Coronet: well I hear Wyn talking, but it is someone with a mike behind a desk - an RL person
[15:33] Wyn Galbraith: LOL
[15:33] Laetizia Coronet: it doesn't feewl like part of the whole experience
[15:33] Benjamin Linden: I see
[15:33] Wyn Galbraith: Maybe our mouths should move.
[15:34] lufpleh Obstreperous: agree, voice does bring in more of RL
[15:34] Laetizia Coronet: an anim would help, yes
[15:34] Benjamin Linden: it doesn't sound like the people here are talking in this space
[15:34] Benja Kepler: or you could wear a veil
[15:34] Laetizia Coronet: that too Benjamin
[15:34] Wyn Galbraith: We were.
[15:34] Benjamin Linden: there actually are supposed to be voice gestures
[15:34] Laetizia Coronet: there was a contest for those, wasn't there?
[15:34] Benjamin Linden: but there aren't facial animations of course
[15:34] Benjamin Linden: yes, I think there was a contest
[15:34] Wyn Galbraith: We could always talk about Benjamin cause he doesn't have his headset on ;)
[15:34] Laetizia Coronet: there are expressions
[15:34] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:35] Laetizia Coronet: so it must be doable
[15:35] Laetizia Coronet: lol
[15:35] Benjamin Linden: but they are very close by
[15:35] Wyn Galbraith: We're talking about you right now!
[15:35] Laetizia Coronet: well what about a head movement thing?
[15:35] Benjamin Linden: my headset hurts my ears
[15:35] Benjamin Linden: :-)
[15:35] Wyn Galbraith: There are gestures I got some.
[15:35] lufpleh Obstreperous: Voice gestures = Speech gestures, located in your Library > gestures folder, drag folder onto your avatar then activate, I have them on
[15:35] Wyn Galbraith tries to find them.
[15:35] Squirrel Wood: just build yourself new ears then?
[15:35] Wyn Galbraith: Ah
[15:35] Laetizia Coronet: of course I'd want that Oprah style sideways head movement for this Afro avatar lol
[15:36] Dale Glass: btw
[15:36] Dale Glass: why is "hear voice chat from camera position" the default?
[15:36] Laetizia Coronet: wait til you hear my baritone, now that's detached from SL ;)
[15:37] Laetizia Coronet: lol
[15:37] Benjamin Linden: so now that voice is out, what do you think we should work on next in the user interface?
[15:37] Laetizia Coronet: knifing you half the time
[15:37] Squirrel Wood: Oh! I know!
[15:38] Laetizia Coronet: Benjamin, my choice would be a viewer 'light'
[15:38] lufpleh Obstreperous: Benjamin, nthing to say about the range/distance voice carries
[15:38] Squirrel Wood: Do what all the whining people want you to do! ^^
[15:38] Benjamin Linden: oh a lightweight client?
[15:38] Laetizia Coronet: yes
[15:38] Wyn Galbraith: I look like the gecko.
[15:38] Laetizia Coronet: my laptop is falling behind rapidly now
[15:38] Benjamin Linden: sorry lufpleh I missed that comment
[15:38] Benjamin Linden: did you say voice is carrying too far?
[15:38] Dale Glass: there must be a gecko avatar somewhere
[15:38] Laetizia Coronet: it was good in nov 06 when I signed on
[15:39] lufpleh Obstreperous: I just find it odd you can hear someone yet you cant see them/their name tag
[15:39] Laetizia Coronet: yeah Wyn I wondered about that, if you release cam constraints you can eavesdrop
[15:39] Dale Glass: sneaky
[15:39] Benjamin Linden: yes, Second Life is a secret plot between Microsoft, Dell, and ATI to make everyone update their computers :-)
[15:39] Dale Glass: no nvidia?
[15:39] Squirrel Wood: voice range is quite long... though I suspect it is to reduce the number of connect/disconnects
[15:39] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Benjamin!
[15:39] lufpleh Obstreperous: would like to see voice attenuted more with distance and an option to boost to replicate shout
[15:40] Benjamin Linden: uh oh here come the dancers
[15:40] Dale Glass: shouting should be realistic
[15:40] Laetizia Coronet: Benjamin, that's too bad for tm, I can't update jack sh** on this thing
[15:40] Dale Glass: just shriek into the microphone ;-)
[15:40] Wyn Galbraith: I've been thinking I need to build my own computer.
[15:40] Delaynie Barbosa: Hello everyone. (just announcing my presence. not sure if I have anything to add yet as I've never attended one of these meetings before.) :-)
[15:40] Laetizia Coronet: hi Delaynie
[15:40] Dale Glass: hi Delanye
[15:41] Dale Glass: *ie
[15:41] Benjamin Linden: Dunster, click Tools->Stop All Animations
[15:41] Delaynie Barbosa: hehe
[15:41] Kii Lilliehook: longer viewing distance without this heavy lag penalty would be fine. I don't want to see every tin prime thats far away, but the big buildings.
[15:41] DunsterDunn Bebb: ty
[15:41] Benjamin Linden: Laetizia, we had an interesting conversation about lightweight clients a few months ago
[15:41] Benjamin Linden: it's in the transcripts
[15:41] Wyn Galbraith: LOL
[15:41] Laetizia Coronet: good point, some selectivity about what needs to be drawn'd be good
[15:42] Benjamin Linden: there was good discussion around different platforms (cell phones, etc)
[15:42] Benjamin Linden: personally I would love to see a browser plug in
[15:42] Laetizia Coronet: oi, cell phones, I am not an addict :P
[15:42] Saijanai Kuhn: I'm having to fudge a lightweight client to get chat into Croquet. Isn't as easy as I had hoped
[15:42] Camber Front Door: DunsterDunn Bebb is at the door.
[15:42] Dale Glass: I discused some time ago that it could be possible to render SL in a nethack-like way
[15:42] Camber Front Door: DunsterDunn Bebb is at the door.
[15:43] Laetizia Coronet: I want a heads up display on the car weindshield ;)
[15:43] Camber Front Door: DunsterDunn Bebb is at the door.
[15:43] Squirrel Wood: http://www.theprodukkt.com/mobile <= see what can be done on mobile phones. a textured 3d scene with lighting.
[15:43] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:43] Dale Glass: http://www.nongnu.org/nethack-el/nethack.png
[15:43] Benjamin Linden: wow!
[15:43] Benjamin Linden: those graphics are better than SL
[15:43] Kii Lilliehook: yeah, browser plugin would be good - so you could connct from internet cafes while on holiday.
[15:43] Wyn Galbraith: Geeze Laetizia, I have hardly any view of SL now, can you imagine if it was on the car window?
[15:43] lufpleh Obstreperous: has anyone tried Ajax
[15:43] Benjamin Linden: mm, I mean the Produkt graphics are, not hethack :-)
[15:43] Wyn Galbraith: Cops would stop me for sure.
[15:44] Saijanai Kuhn: but huds are invisible to everyone but you...
[15:44] Laetizia Coronet: Wyn, it doesn't matter.. must... connect.. every... living... minute...
[15:44] Wyn Galbraith: ROGUE!
[15:44] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:44] Dale Glass: sure, making graphics beter than SL is possible
[15:44] Laetizia Coronet: and fix that bug called RL already
[15:44] Wyn Galbraith: That's what that is, it's not Netwhaterver.
[15:44] DunsterDunn Bebb: hi
[15:44] Benjamin Linden: yeah, but that was on a cell phone, Dale
[15:44] DunsterDunn Bebb: let me in plz
[15:44] Dale Glass: the problem is using that in SL then. Lots of optimizations don't work in SL
[15:44] Roof Doors: Benjamin Linden is at the door.
[15:44] Wyn Galbraith: Oh I see what they did.
[15:45] DunsterDunn Bebb: ty
[15:45] Benja Kepler: I'd like the type sound as a ringtone and see if anyone in the train looks up when my phone rings
[15:45] Benjamin Linden: your dancing is cracking me up DunsterDunn
[15:45] Laetizia Coronet: hehe
[15:45] Benjamin Linden: do you want to know how to stop dancing?
[15:45] DunsterDunn Bebb: im not danceing
[15:45] Wyn Galbraith: You are to us.
[15:45] Laetizia Coronet: oh I can make him stop, where's my Desert Eagle....
[15:45] Benjamin Linden: then what are you doing?
[15:45] Cryptum Lomax: True...its more of a seizure/fit
[15:45] DunsterDunn Bebb: waa i did wot u sad
[15:45] Saijanai Kuhn: he's goroovin to the scenery
[15:45] DunsterDunn Bebb: and
[15:45] Delaynie Barbosa: sometimes you have to relog to get the animations to stop.
[15:45] Laetizia Coronet: lol Cryptum
[15:46] DunsterDunn Bebb: its working
[15:46] lufpleh Obstreperous: if its not dancing call the medics, he's having a fit!
[15:46] Cryptum Lomax: someone call 911...i think he is dying
[15:46] Delaynie Barbosa: I don't know why tools>stop animations will stop locally but not in world. any idea?
[15:46] Kii Lilliehook: wear the thing i gave you, Dunster.
[15:46] Wyn Galbraith: Try reloggin.
[15:46] Laetizia Coronet: I am a Mentor but we haven't had virtual CPR yet
[15:46] DunsterDunn Bebb: ok
[15:46] Saijanai Kuhn saw many people like DunsterDunn in the 60's and 70's
[15:46] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Laetizia
[15:46] Cryptum Lomax: yeah thats not in the program
[15:46] Laetizia Coronet: never heard of DunsterDunn
[15:46] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:46] Benjamin Linden: that was too funny
[15:47] Laetizia Coronet: maybe it's a US thing
[15:47] lufpleh Obstreperous: Ohh Benjamin, thats a good one to add, change the Tools Stop animations for a script that actually works
[15:47] Wyn Galbraith: Most of SL is funny.
[15:47] Wyn Galbraith: Now he's Ruth'd.
[15:47] Saijanai Kuhn: no clue what the name means either
[15:47] DunsterDunn Bebb: did tht work
[15:47] Laetizia Coronet: yeah it did
[15:47] Wyn Galbraith: Yep you're not dancing.
[15:47] DunsterDunn Bebb: ty
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: if that's broken, someone should add a bug to the public tracker
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: nice job, Dunster
[15:47] DunsterDunn Bebb: nice house
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: thanks!
[15:47] Laetizia Coronet: sometimes it seems to help until you cross a sim line
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: Scope Cleaver built it
[15:47] Delaynie Barbosa: IT'S been that way for long as I can remember BEnjamin.
[15:48] Wyn Galbraith: Sometimes that causes it.
[15:48] Kii Lilliehook: build a little thing that helps in this case. stops animations.
[15:48] Laetizia Coronet: hard to file a bug report on something that shaky
[15:48] Benjamin Linden: yeah, it's probably tough to repro
[15:48] lufpleh Obstreperous: its not brocken just does not stop a lot of animations
[15:48] Laetizia Coronet: right luf
[15:48] Benjamin Linden: we probably need a scripter to figure out which things don't work
[15:48] DunsterDunn Bebb: brb
[15:49] Wyn Galbraith: It's not broken, just doesn't work half the time
[15:49] Laetizia Coronet: well SL is teeming with them
[15:49] Laetizia Coronet: call the Nigras, they can script :)
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:49] Wyn Galbraith: LOL
[15:49] lufpleh Obstreperous: I have a script embeded in an cross I give to newbies so they can stop animations
[15:49] Laetizia Coronet: I can lend you my avi to blend in ;)
[15:49] Dale Glass: eh, they're lame. They don't even have a decent custom viewer
[15:50] Laetizia Coronet: a cross?
[15:50] Benjamin Linden: one thing we've been talking about lately is a way to make moving the avatar and camera easier
[15:50] lufpleh Obstreperous: just an object
[15:50] Wyn Galbraith: To protect against vampires too.
[15:50] lufpleh Obstreperous: y
[15:50] Dale Glass: I think they randomized the MAC and that's about it
[15:50] Laetizia Coronet: easier still?
[15:50] Benjamin Linden: and thinking about if there's a way to move using just the mouse
[15:50] Benjamin Linden: no modifier keys
[15:50] Laetizia Coronet: there is - I have chopper which does just that
[15:50] Wyn Galbraith hrms.
[15:50] Squirrel Wood: well, todays mice usually come with a plethora of buttons on them
[15:50] Squirrel Wood: make use of those ?
[15:51] Delaynie Barbosa: II had thought for camera congtrols , using a sliderinterface would be good. that way you can get exact placement of camera angle.
[15:51] Laetizia Coronet: I like the arrow keys
[15:51] Wyn Galbraith uses a trackball on her desktop and a mouse pad on the laptop.
[15:51] Delaynie Barbosa: none of that choppy placement stuff.
[15:51] Benjamin Linden: what if it was simply a matter of clicking and holding the avatar, then moving the cursor slightly forward or back to move the avatar?
[15:51] Benjamin Linden: we wouldn't replace the arrow keys
[15:51] Laetizia Coronet: I am sceptic about that Benjamin
[15:51] Saijanai Kuhn: check out the croquet interface that is the default. It can get a bit unnerviging at times
[15:51] Delaynie Barbosa: move the avatar by mous control? Isn't that was mouselok does?
[15:51] Laetizia Coronet: I mean, don't we have bigger problems to tackle?
[15:52] Squirrel Wood: moving the avatar.. I prefer the 1st person keyboard/mouse combo. gives you the most precision
[15:52] Wyn Galbraith: Be hard to hold the mousebutton down so long.
[15:52] Benjamin Linden: mouselook is a combination of keyboard and mouse
[15:52] Delaynie Barbosa: forgive my typos, my keyboard wants to quit on me any day now.
[15:52] Laetizia Coronet: just clean it Delaynie
[15:52] Benjamin Linden: Laetizia, when you say bigger problems, what's an example?
[15:52] Laetizia Coronet: well the overall slowness of things
[15:52] Delaynie Barbosa: Oh I have Laetizia. Its an keyboard.
[15:52] Benjamin Linden: so technical issues
[15:53] Laetizia Coronet: lag making you crash into things, not arrow keys
[15:53] Squirrel Wood: Benjamin, have you ever heard of Cube or Sauerbraten ?
[15:53] Benjamin Linden: I agree there are performance and stability problems, but SL is also very hard for first-time users
[15:53] Benjamin Linden: we are trying to think of ways to make it more approachable
[15:53] Wyn Galbraith: The movie the Cube?
[15:53] Dale Glass: hmm, about mouselook
[15:53] Benjamin Linden: no Squirrel, what is that
[15:53] Dale Glass: it's nice, but one problem is that it seems it's not possible to use a menu from it
[15:53] Laetizia Coronet: Is it? I never played much games before SL and I have no problems
[15:53] Squirrel Wood: http://sauerbraten.org/
[15:53] Dale Glass: maybe make hotkeys?
[15:54] Squirrel Wood: a relatively simple game engine
[15:54] Benjamin Linden: how did you learn the camera controls, Laetizia?
[15:54] Delaynie Barbosa: The performanceand stability problems no longer bother me. You get used tothe bugs, which are to be expected an any program with this much content.
[15:54] Wyn Galbraith: Ah, there's amovie called the Cube, people are stuck in this cube.
[15:54] Benjamin Linden: where can I find it Squirrel?
[15:54] Dale Glass: it's annoying as I can walk to a door, click, it pops up a menu, and then I have to exit mouselook to click the open button
[15:54] Laetizia Coronet: someone told me, first the cam control arrows, later the alt and ctrl thing
[15:54] Kii Lilliehook: make the camera movement window visible by default. That would help newbies.
[15:54] Benjamin Linden: I've seen Cube the movie
[15:54] lufpleh Obstreperous thought the original orientation islands made SL very approachable, new OI's are intimidating
[15:54] Wyn Galbraith: Pretty pictures. Weird movie isn't it?
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: I agree, Kii
[15:55] Laetizia Coronet: yes luf I agree, the OIs are not very practical
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: we are considering that
[15:55] Saijanai Kuhn: I have a newbie avatar parkede at one fo the islands. Sometimes I log into give newbies a nudge off the island if they are stuck
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: we are also considering scaling back the complexity of OI
[15:55] Saijanai Kuhn: Did you guys check out that issue with the dialog box?
[15:55] Saijanai Kuhn: Benjamin?
[15:55] Wyn Galbraith: OI?
[15:55] Delaynie Barbosa: whats OI?
[15:55] Benja Kepler: OI? or UI?
[15:55] Squirrel Wood: http://sauerbraten.org/ <= Its open sauce
[15:55] Laetizia Coronet: Sai, do you get to see many Mentors there?
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: which issue is that Saijanai
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: OI = orientation island
[15:55] Laetizia Coronet: OI = Orientation Island
[15:55] Benja Kepler: OH
[15:55] Benja Kepler: OI
[15:56] Benja Kepler: OK
[15:56] Wyn Galbraith: OH.
[15:56] Delaynie Barbosa: oh, lol.
[15:56] lufpleh Obstreperous: Nice idea Saijanai, I think I might make 50 alts to cover all the new OI's!! lol
[15:56] Wyn Galbraith: No they're not.
[15:56] Laetizia Coronet: oi gevalt...
[15:56] Saijanai Kuhn: where the sign and the text message say your're getting the teleport, but instead you get a dialog box you have to accept to get the teleport landmark
[15:56] Benjamin Linden: why did you suggest looking at this, Squirrel, do you like their movement scheme?
[15:56] Benja Kepler: Benjamin, my blog gets searches every day on how to leave OI, BTW
[15:56] Laetizia Coronet: yes!
[15:56] Saijanai Kuhn: at least some people find that confusing
[15:56] Wyn Galbraith applied for SL Mentor.
[15:56] Delaynie Barbosa: I don't think OI is that complex. I see a lot of problems with newbies that don't know how to do anything in-world. The problem seems to be they really aren't completing the tutorials. Perhaps it would beneficial to start a program to stress the importance of completing OI and HI before moving in world.
[15:57] Benjamin Linden: Benja that's very helpful to know, thanks
[15:57] Benja Kepler: k
[15:57] Laetizia Coronet: but that is something to take up with Blue and whatsername
[15:57] Wyn Galbraith: Like open a box.
[15:57] Wyn Galbraith: Mia?
[15:57] Laetizia Coronet: I'll do that next time we meet
[15:57] Laetizia Coronet: her too yes
[15:57] Squirrel Wood: It may be something of interest to some of the developers :)
[15:57] Saijanai Kuhn: yo click the sign and you're told click on the teleport, but intead you have to click the accept button for the dialog box THEN click.
[15:57] lufpleh Obstreperous: Delaynie have you tried to complete the new OI's, I and several friends failed even though we were relatively experienced
[15:58] Saijanai Kuhn: I got lost with the communications god, myself
[15:58] Benjamin Linden: Saijanai, I'm not sure I'm completely following, have you filed a bug with screenshots on the issue tracker?
[15:58] Saijanai Kuhn: no. I thought I mentionecd it to you earler, sorry
[15:58] Kii Lilliehook: I've got stuck in OI as well.
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: I think you may have, but I don't recall the specifics, sorry
[15:59] Squirrel Wood: Bedtime for this squirrel
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: yes, we're about out of time
[15:59] Benja Kepler: ok!
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: I would like to talk some more about movement and camera control
[15:59] Benja Kepler: good night all
[15:59] Saijanai Kuhn: will make a screenshot and jira it. It should be a trivial fix, but not sure that is the main problem
[15:59] Laetizia Coronet: good night Squirrel
[15:59] Dale Glass: later :-)
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: so please think about that a bit further, and bring suggestions for other examples (games, 3d apps) that you like
[15:59] Wyn Galbraith: Sleep sweet.
[15:59] Laetizia Coronet: ok Benjamin
[15:59] lufpleh Obstreperous: I'm happy with camera using Alt + arrow keys
[15:59] Saijanai Kuhn: nite squirrel
[15:59] Saijanai Kuhn: nutty dreams
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: wand on
[16:00] Starax's Magic Wand - V2.26+: I'm really turned on now
[16:00] Delaynie Barbosa: Quite interesting. This was an informative meeting to attend. Nice meeting you all.
[16:00] Wyn Galbraith: No Ruth'd Zombies in your dreams.
[16:00] Kii Lilliehook: bye!
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: I LOVE residents who attend my office hours :-)
[16:00] Laetizia Coronet: liewise Delaynie
[16:00] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[16:00] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks ;)
[16:00] Saijanai Kuhn: mmmm zombies..,.. (Homer Simpson voice)
[16:00] Laetizia Coronet: *likewise
[16:00] Squirrel Wood: It's always interesting here
[16:00] Wyn Galbraith blushes.
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: love love love :-)
[16:00] Delaynie Barbosa: :-) I will come more often then. :-)
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: good idea!
[16:01] Wyn Galbraith: Look an idea fell from the sky.
[16:01] Delaynie Barbosa: see you next time then. :-)
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: :-) take care everyone!
[16:01] Saijanai Kuhn: later Benjamin
[16:01] Wyn Galbraith: And hearts.
[16:01] Wyn Galbraith: B-bye!!! :D
[16:01] Laetizia Coronet: bye Benjamin