User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jul 24
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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| [9:59] | Torley Linden: | Heyhey! |
| [9:59] | Daedalus Young: | hi Torley |
| [9:59] | Squirrel Wood: | Holla ^^ |
| [9:59] | Torley Linden: | How's everyone doin'? |
| [9:59] | Daedalus Young: | doing ood, thanks |
| [10:00] | Daedalus Young: | good |
| [10:00] | Daedalus Young: | how are you? |
| [10:00] | Squirrel Wood: | phyne, phyne ^^ |
| [10:00] | Squirrel Wood: | Mellonhead ^^ |
| [10:00] | Squirrel Wood: | Hellos ^^ |
| [10:00] | Daedalus Young: | hi |
| [10:00] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Squirrel |
| [10:00] | Torley Linden: | OMG It's Ben! |
| [10:00] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Daedalus |
| [10:01] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Torley :-) |
| [10:01] | Torley Linden: | Yes, I'm a literal Melonhead today. |
| [10:01] | Torley Linden: | Heyhey Ben! |
| [10:01] | Benjamin Linden: | lol |
| [10:01] | Squirrel Wood: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839 *shameless plug* XD |
| [10:02] | Benjamin Linden: | let's give folks a couple minutes to arrive |
| [10:02] | Saijanai Kuhn speculates on what kind of kanooding would worry an ant... | |
| [10:03] | Saijanai Kuhn: | I tried to TP here and the viewer crashed. inermittent issues HA! |
| [10:03] | Saijanai Kuhn: | '-) |
| [10:03] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Saijanai |
| [10:03] | Torley Linden: | It's the sad lil bot Iridium! |
| [10:03] | Saijanai Kuhn: | morning. |
| [10:03] | Iridium Linden: | Hiya, can't see but I'm bumping into stuff, lol. |
| [10:03] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Iridium |
| [10:03] | Torley Linden: | Good to be here with you all. |
| [10:03] | Torley Linden: | Sounds just like a robot. Haw-haw! |
| [10:03] | Iridium Linden: | Sorry I'm late. |
| [10:03] | Saijanai Kuhn relieves rezzing pressure on sim... | |
| [10:04] | Iridium Linden: | Hi Alissa! |
| [10:04] | Alissa Sabre: | Hi |
| [10:04] | Benjamin Linden: | oh hey Alissa, I didn't see you sitting over there |
| [10:04] | Benjamin Linden: | welcome, it's great to have you! |
| [10:04] | Torley Linden: | This place looks so badass with WindLight. |
| [10:04] | Alissa Sabre: | lol |
| [10:04] | Iridium Linden: | I meant to talk to you! We're gonna start up the Internationalization triage later this week. |
| [10:05] | Iridium Linden: | I hope you can make it. |
| [10:05] | Torley Linden: | Yeah, thanks for all your Internationalization help, Alissa! |
| [10:05] | Saijanai Kuhn: | so what is the verdict on teh Queen's Qnglish build? |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, your submissions have been a huge help, Alissa |
| [10:05] | Torley Linden: | I appreciate that we have such nice contributors here... |
| [10:05] | Alissa Sabre: | I wrote a page on I18N issues, but I'm not sure it's worth having a specialized triage |
| [10:05] | Torley Linden: | I was just watching some of Daedalus' video bug repros. |
| [10:05] | Daedalus Young: | ooh cool |
| [10:05] | Torley Linden: | =D |
| [10:06] | Benjamin Linden: | video repros are great! |
| [10:06] | Iridium Linden: | I think it is, although perhaps a monthly one instead of a weekly one. |
| [10:06] | Benjamin Linden: | ok folks let's get started |
| [10:06] | Iridium Linden: | kk |
| [10:06] | Squirrel Wood: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839 has a video attached :p |
| [10:06] | Alissa Sabre: | https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Alissa_Sabre/I18N_Issues |
| [10:06] | Benjamin Linden: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda |
| [10:07] | Dzonatas Sol: | Hi |
| [10:07] | Daedalus Young: | hi |
| [10:07] | Alissa Sabre: | Hi, Dzon |
| [10:07] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Dzonatas |
| [10:08] | Torley Linden: | Squirrel yeah that one I hope to get to the Voice Team's attention, prolly today! |
| [10:08] | Iridium Linden: | Hiya, Aric! |
| [10:08] | Torley Linden: | Hey Aric! |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | hey there Aric |
| [10:08] | Saijanai Kuhn: | A quick question. I was testing the reponsiveness of the Mac client so I created a newbie avatar and parked it in Orientation Island. |
| [10:08] | Aric Linden: | hi all |
| [10:08] | Dzonatas Sol: | Hi Aric |
| [10:08] | Saijanai Kuhn: | That place is confusing |
| [10:08] | Alissa Sabre: | Are we starting? |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, let's get started |
| [10:08] | Saijanai Kuhn: | (ot to mention 2 clients running lags the system like you wouldn't believe) |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai, let's discuss OI on Thursday |
| [10:08] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Great |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | there's the agenda |
| [10:09] | Saijanai Kuhn: | np |
| [10:09] | Benjamin Linden: | which just a quick note for folks, the agenda is on the wiki, so feel free to go in and edit it if there are bugs you'd like to have discussed |
| [10:09] | Iridium Linden: | Oh, nice. You guys made changes. |
| [10:09] | Iridium Linden: | Thanks. |
| [10:09] | Benjamin Linden: | excellent :-) |
| [10:10] | Dzonatas Sol: | =) |
| [10:10] | Iridium Linden: | I see Nicholaz' note there. |
| [10:10] | Iridium Linden: | If you find new issues which might be suitable for solution through open source programmers (many UI isses tend to fall into that category) pleaes add them to/link them from VWR-1577 (Nicholaz 06:59, 20 July 2007 (PDT)) |
| [10:10] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, too bad he's not here :-) |
| [10:10] | Iridium Linden: | Yeah, he's in Germany so ... |
| [10:10] | Iridium Linden: | Timing isn't ideal. |
| [10:10] | Daedalus Young: | hm well, that's next door to me |
| [10:11] | Iridium Linden: | lol. |
| [10:11] | Benjamin Linden: | yeah it should be evening there |
| [10:11] | Torley Linden: | Yeah, I was checking out that Meta-Issue that Nicholaz did... good idea. |
| [10:11] | Daedalus Young: | 7 pm |
| [10:11] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-546 |
| [10:11] | Iridium Linden: | so that's our first patch. |
| [10:11] | Squirrel Wood: | germany... it's aboot 7:15pm there now. |
| [10:11] | Benjamin Linden: | wow, this meta-issue is very cool. |
| [10:11] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - Using inspect interfers with mouse usage. |
| [10:12] | Torley Linden: | I believe Rob Linden is going to be adding a formal Meta-Issue state so these things are easier to search for. |
| [10:12] | Squirrel Wood: | that one's got pretty clear repro steps |
| [10:12] | Benjamin Linden: | I was confused about this one because Nicholaz said he fixed it even though he couldn't repro it |
| [10:12] | Daedalus Young: | yeah, very easy to repro |
| [10:12] | Benjamin Linden: | ok if it's an easy repro and there's a patch we should import it |
| [10:12] | Torley Linden: | I just repro'ed it myself. |
| [10:13] | Alissa Sabre: | Has anybody tested the patch? |
| [10:13] | Daedalus Young: | Nicholaz didn't test it all, it seems |
| [10:13] | Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype | |
| [10:13] | Benjamin Linden: | Alissa, it will be tested internally |
| [10:13] | Alissa Sabre: | Ok. Fine. |
| [10:13] | Torley Linden: | OK, I'll import it. |
| [10:13] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1721 |
| [10:14] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - GUI quirk in groups |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Torley, when you import, you're assigning to BeenTriaged right? |
| [10:14] | Daedalus Young: | it's a bit slow to load for me... |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Alexa! |
| [10:14] | Torley Linden: | Sure am Benjamin! |
| [10:15] | Torley Linden: | With our fave "RxTriage" tag too! |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | Hey, Dzonatas. |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | Glad you could make it. |
| [10:15] | Torley Linden: | That sound good to you Ben? |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | sounds good Torley, thanks! |
| [10:15] | Torley Linden: | NP! |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's move on |
| [10:15] | Torley Linden: | PJIRA's crawling a bit for me right now too. |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1721 |
| [10:15] | Dzonatas Sol: | ty Iridium |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, same here |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - GUI quirk in groups |
| [10:16] | Daedalus Young: | Groups window takes focus |
| [10:16] | Torley Linden: | Soft's already on that one, VWR-1721. Imported. |
| [10:16] | Torley Linden: | (I mean, it was already imported!) |
| [10:16] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-82 |
| [10:16] | Iridium Linden: | - Votes: 27 - New Feature -> UI -> IM -> Teleport (other person) Button |
| [10:16] | Aric Linden: | pjira is crawling today. |
| [10:17] | Benjamin Linden: | yes it is, Aric |
| [10:17] | Benjamin Linden: | I just finished reading it and Iridium already moved on! :-) |
| [10:17] | Torley Linden: | This one's been around awhile... |
| [10:17] | Benjamin Linden: | I'll talk to Rob |
| [10:17] | Torley Linden: | It's a "New Feature", not a bug. |
| [10:17] | Torley Linden: | Hrmmm... |
| [10:17] | Iridium Linden: | Right, we're on New Feature Patches. |
| [10:18] | Benjamin Linden: | right Torley, we're doing patches first |
| [10:18] | Iridium Linden: | Feature Request Patches |
| [10:18] | Torley Linden: | I don't see a patch attached to it tho. |
| [10:18] | Iridium Linden: | Ah, perhaps it was placed incorrectly. |
| [10:18] | Benjamin Linden: | ha, you're right Torley |
| [10:18] | Alissa Sabre: | It's a new feature, without patches, but with a lot of votes |
| [10:18] | Dzonatas Sol: | its linked to the OS meta issue |
| [10:18] | Squirrel Wood: | Mayhaps that's the feature request for? they want a patch ^^ |
| [10:18] | Iridium Linden: | Let's move on then, yeah? |
| [10:18] | Torley Linden: | I can leave a comment saying that an Open Source contributor is welcome to patch this if they'd want. |
| [10:18] | Benjamin Linden: | I can see how this was confusing for people editing the agenda |
| [10:18] | Torley Linden: | Sounds good to move on. |
| [10:18] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1825 |
| [10:19] | Benjamin Linden: | because we don't have a section in the agenda for feature requests w/out patches |
| [10:19] | Benjamin Linden: | Iridium can you add that in so people know where to put these kinds of issues? |
| [10:19] | Iridium Linden: | Hmm, should have been on the template. |
| [10:19] | Iridium Linden: | The others have patches. |
| [10:19] | Saijanai Kuhn: | feature requests without patches aren't considered? |
| [10:19] | Daedalus Young: | 1825, and more specifically 1826 and 1827, if I understood correctly |
| [10:20] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1825, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1826 |
| [10:20] | Iridium Linden: | Yeah, shoulda been there. |
| [10:20] | Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai, we will eventually look at feature requests w/out patches |
| [10:20] | Benjamin Linden: | but we want to get through bugs first |
| [10:20] | Saijanai Kuhn: | OK, so its a priority thing |
| [10:20] | Daedalus Young: | same as discussed last week, double-clicking should not open properties |
| [10:20] | Benjamin Linden: | right |
| [10:20] | Daedalus Young: | but now for landmarks directly teleporting |
| [10:21] | Torley Linden: | I know Coco Linden would be interested in this too -- she's mentioned some similar UI improvements. |
| [10:21] | Torley Linden: | I'll ping her to take a look at this later. |
| [10:21] | Iridium Linden: | Done |
| [10:21] | Iridium Linden: | Shall we look at 1825? |
| [10:21] | Daedalus Young: | and auto-wearing "Linden-provided attachments" |
| [10:21] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1825 |
| [10:21] | Aric Linden: | isn't double clicking a platform specific convention? |
| [10:21] | Dzonatas Sol: | A few of the double-click cases probally can change. Landmarks would be a good one. |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | do these have patches? |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | I don't see them... |
| [10:22] | Alissa Sabre: | It used to be, but seems common these days. |
| [10:22] | Daedalus Young: | the patches are in 1825? |
| [10:22] | Torley Linden: | Looks like the patches were included in the Descriptions of VWR-1826 and VWR-1827. |
| [10:22] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1826 |
| [10:22] | Torley Linden: | They aren't actual attachments but inline text. |
| [10:22] | Benjamin Linden: | ack Pjira is killing me! |
| [10:22] | Daedalus Young: | ah yes, in the issue description |
| [10:22] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1827 |
| [10:23] | Torley Linden: | This sounds like an overarching sort of project which needs to be thought through and we should probably get more internal RX feedback on this. That's my feeling. |
| [10:23] | Daedalus Young: | Nicholaz adds: "(if the suggestion is accepted, of course I can submit a proper patch file)." |
| [10:23] | Benjamin Linden: | hang on guys, I'm getting behind because of Pjira |
| [10:23] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1826 is already imported |
| [10:23] | Torley Linden: | It was imported by Sardonyx Linden... hmmm... |
| [10:23] | Daedalus Young: | 1826 is landmarks tping directly |
| [10:23] | Torley Linden: | I'll ask him what he thinks of the others too. |
| [10:24] | Torley Linden: | *makes internal comment* |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | you're right Torley, we should discuss this more broadly |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | let's talk about it at the rx meeting on thursday |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | so are all three of these issues related? |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | 1825, 1826, 1827 |
| [10:25] | Aric Linden: | seems so to me, benjamin |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | oh I see, they're the subtasks |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | Great, so 1826 is imported and we'll revisit the others, yes? |
| [10:25] | Daedalus Young: | yes |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | so Nicholaz included the patch in the comments |
| [10:25] | Dzonatas Sol: | =) |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | sounds good Iridium |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | 1825 is the parent task? |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | yes |
| [10:25] | Dzonatas Sol: | yes, 1825 |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1664 |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | Great, 1664. |
| [10:25] | Squirrel Wood: | 1664.... freezes you in place and also prevents further Teleport attempts. |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 5 - Selecting "Cancel" during TP process leaves avatar motionless |
| [10:26] | Daedalus Young: | (good thing about browsing with tabs, having the next few issues open already :P ) |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | Thanks, Swuirrel. |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | Squirrel* |
| [10:26] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [10:26] | Daedalus Young: | 1664 has LLID already |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | waiting for pjira... |
| [10:26] | Torley Linden: | Arghhhh yes VWR-1664, I am familiar with this! It's related to the double teleport screen bug! |
| [10:26] | Squirrel Wood: | yeup |
| [10:26] | Torley Linden: | We have a solid repro via SVC-438 linked... |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | wow, sounds like this has been frustrating you Torley |
| [10:26] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1664 is imported... any repro? |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | it's been imported already? |
| [10:27] | Dzonatas Sol: | ah! |
| [10:27] | Torley Linden: | Haha, yes. Long story short, this is on Studio Blacklight's watchlist. |
| [10:27] | Torley Linden: | It's been imported and approved. |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | this is really less of a UI issue |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's move on then |
| [10:27] | Alissa Sabre: | It has no patch... |
| [10:27] | Torley Linden: | Yeah, this is server-side. |
| [10:27] | Iridium Linden: | So this one is imported. |
| [10:27] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-749 |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | I think we're past the patches now Alisaa |
| [10:27] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 3 - Bandwidth indicator: Kbps, should not have capital k |
| [10:27] | Alissa Sabre: | Ok. |
| [10:27] | Saijanai Kuhn: | ? |
| [10:27] | Daedalus Young: | yes, kilo is k, Mega is M |
| [10:27] | Alissa Sabre: | I don't care this one... |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | Yeah, that should be lowercase. Looks like a simple change. |
| [10:28] | Saijanai Kuhn: | kBytes? |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kbps |
| [10:28] | Daedalus Young: | just a bit of Standards |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | " Unfortunately, many people incorrectly use 'K' when they should use 'k'. " |
| [10:28] | Squirrel Wood: | heh. the bandwidth graph on ctrl-shift-1 should also adjust its scale to match the top bandwidth usage ^^ |
| [10:28] | Daedalus Young: | yes, kilobytes is kB |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | Should be a simple string change I am reckoning. |
| [10:29] | Daedalus Young: | me thinks so too |
| [10:29] | Torley Linden: | Sounds good to import it and put it in our Rx pool, Ben? |
| [10:29] | Benjamin Linden: | where in the UI is this? |
| [10:29] | Daedalus Young: | hover your mouse over the bandwidth indicator top right |
| [10:29] | Dzonatas Sol: | kiBps... hehe |
| [10:29] | Daedalus Young: | well, KibiBytes would be KiB |
| [10:29] | Benjamin Linden: | I think I have some debug setting on because I only see the xml filename |
| [10:29] | Torley Linden: | I'll attach as creenshot. |
| [10:30] | Aric Linden: | Ben, if you have the history window up, it won't work |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | ok, thanks Torley |
| [10:30] | Alissa Sabre: | Hmm. On my screen, the string is translated |
| [10:30] | Saijanai Kuhn: | actually the wiki says k = 1,000 while K = 1,024 |
| [10:30] | Saijanai Kuhn: | shrug |
| [10:30] | Tao Takashi: | Hi |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Tao |
| [10:30] | Iridium Linden: | Hi Tao! |
| [10:30] | Daedalus Young: | well, k=1000, Ki = 1024 |
| [10:30] | Iridium Linden: | Thanks for coming. |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's move on |
| [10:30] | Iridium Linden: | So where are we? |
| [10:30] | Squirrel Wood: | Just measure bandwidth in pebbles per square mile ? |
| [10:30] | Alissa Sabre: | k = 1000 is defined by official standards, but Ki = 1024 is not, I believe |
| [10:30] | Iridium Linden: | Keeping the k? |
| [10:31] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1408 |
| [10:31] | Benjamin Linden: | egad Pjira is slow |
| [10:31] | Dzonatas Sol: | Not an easy change on the UI side |
| [10:31] | Dzonatas Sol: | i just saw another issue like this... |
| [10:32] | Torley Linden: | *waits for VWR-1408 to come up, that number looks familiar to me!* |
| [10:32] | Daedalus Young: | Online status viewable via Groups even if "Make my online status visible only to my Friends" is set |
| [10:32] | Torley Linden: | Ahhh yeah that's a longtime "workaround", how you can use Group members list to see when someone's last been online. |
| [10:33] | Benjamin Linden: | let's import it, sounds like something we should at least discuss |
| [10:33] | Torley Linden: | *nod* |
| [10:33] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm curious to check out this meta-issue on privacy |
| [10:33] | Iridium Linden: | So importing 1408. |
| [10:34] | Iridium Linden: | ?\ |
| [10:34] | Torley Linden: | Yes. |
| [10:34] | Torley Linden: | Imported already. |
| [10:34] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-584 |
| [10:34] | Aric Linden: | nods at iridium |
| [10:34] | Squirrel Wood: | Ummmmmmm |
| [10:34] | Iridium Linden: | Awesome. |
| [10:34] | Iridium Linden: | otes: 2 - Show Avatar Names Temporarily - nonfunctional |
| [10:34] | Squirrel Wood: | I guess the same thing applies to lists of people in the current chat session then |
| [10:34] | Dzonatas Sol: | 584 is borderline.. UI and dialog code |
| [10:34] | Squirrel Wood: | 1408 that is |
| [10:34] | Daedalus Young: | 584 does work for me, but it used to be different |
| [10:34] | Benjamin Linden: | what does this setting do? |
| [10:34] | Dzonatas Sol: | How much of the dialog code does the UI team get into? |
| [10:35] | Benjamin Linden: | Dzonatas, what do you mean by "dialog code"? |
| [10:35] | Daedalus Young: | when somebody has been out of view, the tag should reappear |
| [10:35] | Torley Linden: | VWR-584 should have more of a solid repro! |
| [10:35] | Aric Linden: | Torley, I agree. |
| [10:35] | Aric Linden: | Sounds to me as though there's a conflicting anecdotal views on how this should work |
| [10:36] | Benjamin Linden: | are we talking about in the Participant list in the chatterbox? |
| [10:36] | Daedalus Young: | possibly yes |
| [10:36] | Torley Linden: | Yeah... it's working for me right now. |
| [10:36] | Benjamin Linden: | I don't understand the issue |
| [10:36] | Saijanai Kuhn: | isn't that server related? Could be lag, could be database, could be anything |
| [10:36] | Aric Linden: | could be update latency too |
| [10:36] | Torley Linden: | Benjamin, this is Preferences > General Tab > Show Names' "Show Temporarily". |
| [10:36] | Dzonatas Sol: | Benjamin, the UI is like a layer on top of the dialog code... the dialog code control the the behind the scene actions. I'm sure there is different terminology used. |
| [10:37] | Torley Linden: | I suggest we can resolve this as "Needs More Info". |
| [10:37] | Iridium Linden: | So shall we mark this as "needs more solid repro" and move on? |
| [10:37] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-645 |
| [10:37] | Aric Linden: | Or that we need solid definition of the expected behavior |
| [10:37] | Benjamin Linden: | I think it's a little of both Aric |
| [10:38] | Dzonatas Sol: | I'm just unclear on how much or deep into the code the UI teams work on |
| [10:38] | Iridium Linden: | I marked it. |
| [10:38] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 2 - Sit, then click on self: camera pans but does not tilt |
| [10:38] | Torley Linden: | The current and expected behavior I'm aware of is: if "Show Temporarily" is on, then when you enter a new region with avatars, their names will appear for a few secs... and then fade away. |
| [10:38] | lufpleh Obstreperous: | names not appearing for me!! used to be you would rotate view and they would appear then fade |
| [10:38] | Torley Linden: | Names, meaning, the tags above their heads inworld. |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | we could go ahead and import this for further investigation |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | we can close it if it's working correctly |
| [10:39] | lufpleh Obstreperous: | yes |
| [10:39] | Torley Linden waits for the Issue Tracker to load... | |
| [10:39] | Alissa Sabre: | Hi, Vixen |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | lol yeah it's soooo slow today |
| [10:39] | Aric Linden: | Benjamin, i think it's worth a conversation with Rx and QA to figure out how it works and how you want it to work |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | agreed, Aric, let's take this one up offline |
| [10:40] | Iridium Linden: | So we're importing 584 or 645? |
| [10:40] | lufpleh Obstreperous: | thought the idea was to reduce screen clutter |
| [10:40] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley can you import it with a note to that effect |
| [10:40] | Benjamin Linden: | this is 584, Iridium |
| [10:40] | Iridium Linden: | kk, so then we're ready to move on. |
| [10:40] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-645 |
| [10:40] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, thanks! |
| [10:40] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 2 - Sit, then click on self: camera pans but does not tilt |
| [10:40] | Torley Linden: | Yes, will do. |
| [10:41] | Dzonatas Sol leaving a comment to ask for sys info | |
| [10:41] | Daedalus Young: | 645, I didn't even know that was possible, if you stand and click on yourself, you can rotate and zoom in and out on yourself |
| [10:41] | Benjamin Linden: | I've seen this behavior |
| [10:41] | Daedalus Young: | but sitting it only moves the cam around you, not zooming |
| [10:41] | Benjamin Linden: | it may be by-design but let's import it to dig a little deeper |
| [10:42] | Aric Linden: | this may be a "limitation" of sitting. |
| [10:42] | Daedalus Young: | yes, ctrl+alt+arrow keys used to be broken a good while ago too |
| [10:42] | Benjamin Linden: | that's what I'm not sure about, Aric, we should find out. personally I don't see any reason not to tilt while sitting |
| [10:42] | Aric Linden: | benjamin, agreed |
| [10:42] | Benjamin Linden: | ok cool, let's go on then |
| [10:43] | Dzonatas Sol: | It appears if you move the mouse before you do alt/ctrl type pan that it gets stuck |
| [10:43] | Dzonatas Sol: | *than |
| [10:43] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1667 |
| [10:43] | Iridium Linden: | So we'll mark that one "won't fix?" |
| [10:43] | Benjamin Linden: | which one Iridium? |
| [10:43] | Iridium Linden: | 645 |
| [10:44] | Benjamin Linden: | no, please mark that imported |
| [10:44] | Iridium Linden: | Ah, kk. |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | OK, imported. |
| [10:44] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks guys |
| [10:44] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 2 - Profile "My Notes" tab - contents replaced by "Loading..." if you close it before it displays the actual contents |
| [10:44] | Benjamin Linden: | so this next one sounds really bad! |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | I'll let Rob know about the slow Issue Tracker performance too. |
| [10:44] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1667 |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | My Notes has had many problems for a long time. |
| [10:44] | Benjamin Linden: | Rob is out this week or I would've gone and punched him on the shoulder already :-) |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | One of them has been, sometimes after a release, people find out their My Notes on other people have been cleared. |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | Heh Benjamin. |
| [10:44] | Alissa Sabre: | I have a feeling that this issue is related to VWR-423 |
| [10:45] | Alissa Sabre: | 423 is a bug of LLTextEditor control |
| [10:45] | Benjamin Linden: | Alissa, could you add a link |
| [10:45] | Benjamin Linden: | if you think it's related |
| [10:45] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-423 |
| [10:45] | Alissa Sabre: | I think, but I'm not sure yet... |
| [10:45] | Iridium Linden: | Selecting group charter text causes Apply/Ignore/Cancel popup even if the text wasn't changed |
| [10:46] | Iridium Linden: | Already linked to VWR- 1187 |
| [10:46] | Alissa Sabre: | The bug essentially says that LLTextEditor invokes onCommit too often |
| [10:46] | Alissa Sabre: | or invokes it when it is unnecessary. |
| [10:46] | Alissa Sabre: | That's the heart of the bug. |
| [10:46] | Benjamin Linden: | I see, ok let's go ahead and import this one |
| [10:46] | Torley Linden: | Thanks for the info... *imports* |
| [10:46] | Benjamin Linden: | we can link it up as needed later |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | Alissa, maybe you could just add a comment about the other potentially related issues |
| [10:47] | Alissa Sabre: | Ok. |
| [10:47] | Torley Linden: | Part of the longtime prob with My Notes is you have no way to see which notes you've made on other people unless you remember precisely who they are. There's no way to easily list 'em -- just saying that for context. :) |
| [10:47] | Torley Linden: | It's kind of a half-baked feature. |
| [10:47] | Iridium Linden: | Okay, so importing and moving on, yes? |
| [10:47] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-298 |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | a future rx agenda item! |
| [10:47] | Torley Linden: | Hehe! |
| [10:48] | Torley Linden: | *waits patiently* |
| [10:48] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - Practically impossible to enter Japanese text when viewer is running full-screen on MacOS |
| [10:48] | Iridium Linden: | Oh, lol, Torley. JIRA is super slow, grr. |
| [10:48] | Dzonatas Sol: | sounds like it doesn't know when to refresh |
| [10:49] | Aric Linden: | I think this might actually be related to something that we found last week |
| [10:49] | Dzonatas Sol: | to kotoeri |
| [10:49] | Iridium Linden: | We should also talk about this at the internationalization triage. |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | While I don't have a way to repro this here, Alissa, it sounds like this is a clear repro from what you've experienced. |
| [10:49] | Aric Linden: | The input focus isn't set properly |
| [10:49] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, this is more related to i18n |
| [10:49] | Squirrel Wood: | Alissa Sabre - 24/Jul/07 09:03 AM I'm working on Japanese (and Chinese/Korean, hopefully) input improvements. If I can successfully solve VWR-250, this VWR-298 will be solved, too! |
| [10:49] | Alissa Sabre: | Sorry, which one are we talking now? |
| [10:49] | Aric Linden: | 298 |
| [10:49] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-298 |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | This should have the Internationalization component added to it. |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | *adds* |
| [10:49] | Alissa Sabre: | Ok. THat's mine. :-) |
| [10:49] | Iridium Linden: | hehe, yes, Alissa. |
| [10:49] | Saijanai Kuhn: | ?st |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Torley, yes I see your notes in here Alissa |
| [10:50] | Torley Linden: | Alissa: Yes! :D Could you please tag future internationalization issues with the Internationalization component? |
| [10:50] | Torley Linden: | Just so we can find them easier... :o) |
| [10:50] | Aric Linden: | When you import it, please go ahead and assign it to me Torley. I'll have keiko look at it |
| [10:50] | Torley Linden: | Sure, will do Aric. |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Aric |
| [10:50] | Aric Linden: | I'm pretty sure it's related to the issue we found last week. |
| [10:50] | Saijanai Kuhn: | The Mac has its own window for intermediate international input. |
| [10:50] | Alissa Sabre: | Ok. As I noticed. |
| [10:50] | Aric Linden: | NP |
| [10:50] | Iridium Linden: | So we'll import this one cause it has a clear repro and also discuss it at the internationalization triage? |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | sounds good Iridium |
| [10:50] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1457 |
| [10:50] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - Friend Online/Offline pop up steals focus from Inventory scrolling. |
| [10:50] | Alissa Sabre: | It has a solid repro, but I believe fixing it is not an easy task |
| [10:51] | Alissa Sabre: | Ah, I said on 298 |
| [10:51] | Torley Linden: | Ah yeah, VWR-1457 is OLD! |
| [10:51] | Benjamin Linden: | I've not experienced 1457 myself |
| [10:51] | Torley Linden: | I remember that in 2004. But then I turned off friend status notifications. |
| [10:51] | Daedalus Young: | can't remember |
| [10:51] | Benjamin Linden: | haha Torley, do we have an internal bug for this already? |
| [10:52] | Torley Linden: | Good question, maybe a long time ago, but I don't remember seeing it. |
| [10:52] | Torley Linden: | We can import and then I'll close dupes later as I find them. |
| [10:52] | Torley Linden: | Sound good? |
| [10:52] | Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype | |
| [10:52] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1541 |
| [10:52] | Iridium Linden: | Sounds good to me. |
| [10:52] | Benjamin Linden: | sounds great |
| [10:52] | Aric Linden: | sounds fine to me, Torley |
| [10:52] | Torley Linden: | K... *imports* |
| [10:52] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - Shortcut key Ctrl-` cannot be entered on Japanese version of Windows with 104 keyboard |
| [10:52] | Iridium Linden: | This is also one for Internationalization. |
| [10:53] | Alissa Sabre: | Partly I18N |
| [10:53] | Squirrel Wood: | Ctrl-` <= impossible to enter on german keyboards |
| [10:53] | Torley Linden: | Intriguing; that's snapshot key! |
| [10:53] | Alissa Sabre: | but I think it is more a short cut problem |
| [10:53] | Alissa Sabre: | Generally speaking, SL Viewer has too many short cuts. |
| [10:53] | Benjamin Linden: | I agree Alissa |
| [10:53] | Alissa Sabre: | and they crushes with other shortcuts. |
| [10:53] | Benjamin Linden: | but people love their shortcuts :-) |
| [10:53] | Daedalus Young: | hmm, I like using shortcuts |
| [10:53] | Alissa Sabre: | This is just an example |
| [10:53] | Daedalus Young: | helps prevent rsi |
| [10:54] | Alissa Sabre: | "THeir short cut" that's the point. |
| [10:54] | Daedalus Young: | I use the snapshot shortcut all the time |
| [10:54] | Torley Linden: | What would be a better snapshot shortcut? (I'm very sensitive about this because I take snapshots so often!) |
| [10:54] | Alissa Sabre: | In my experience, application programs having a lot of short cut |
| [10:54] | Alissa Sabre: | allows user customization |
| [10:54] | Aric Linden: | Well, just to be clear, it's very, very difficult for us to test and implement on every keyboard. |
| [10:54] | Benjamin Linden: | so I do know that at some point in the future we want to create a true key-mapping feature |
| [10:54] | Daedalus Young: | it's a very convenient keystroke on Mac keyboards too |
| [10:54] | Saijanai Kuhn: | configureable shortcults... |
| [10:54] | Torley Linden: | Remember with the snapshot shortcut, there's also a subtlety with the Mac. |
| [10:54] | Benjamin Linden: | which is really the right way to address this |
| [10:54] | Saijanai Kuhn: | as opposed to longcults |
| [10:54] | Aric Linden: | agrees with Benjamuin |
| [10:55] | Aric Linden: | *Benjamin |
| [10:55] | Torley Linden: | Yeah, I'd prefer "true key-mapping" too. |
| [10:55] | Daedalus Young: | customizable would be great |
| [10:55] | Alissa Sabre: | I support the idea of customizable short cuts, too |
| [10:55] | Torley Linden: | In the meantime I know you can use a macro program to work around probs like this. |
| [10:55] | Benjamin Linden: | is there a simple fix for this now or should we mark as won't fix |
| [10:55] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley, maybe you could note that in the bug |
| [10:55] | Torley Linden: | Yes, *adds comment* |
| [10:55] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-719 |
| [10:55] | Alissa Sabre: | This particular short cut is to take a short cut, |
| [10:55] | Alissa Sabre: | and there are other short cuts too. |
| [10:55] | Saijanai Kuhn: | when people see "won't fix" it makes them quite angry |
| [10:55] | Alissa Sabre: | take a screen shot |
| [10:56] | Saijanai Kuhn: | explanatio for "won't fix" is essential |
| [10:56] | Benjamin Linden: | I agree, Saijanai |
| [10:56] | Iridium Linden: | So where are we on 1541? |
| [10:56] | Alissa Sabre: | Can we say "We are going to a customizable short cut in a future" today? |
| [10:56] | Iridium Linden: | We should try to get a few more in before we wrap up. |
| [10:56] | Benjamin Linden: | I think explaining that we want to address shortcuts holistically with a true keymapping feature and adding torley's workaround should be adequate |
| [10:57] | Torley Linden: | OK, I'll explain that in the comments. |
| [10:57] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Torley |
| [10:57] | Alissa Sabre: | Great. |
| [10:57] | Torley Linden: | And we should mark it as "Won't Fix"? |
| [10:57] | Iridium Linden: | Won't fix and see task for explanation. |
| [10:57] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-719 |
| [10:57] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, won't fix |
| [10:57] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - Money dialogs missing after group notifications |
| [10:57] | Torley Linden: | Got it, will do. |
| [10:58] | Daedalus Young: | yep, well missing, more hidden |
| [10:58] | Squirrel Wood: | Put a big red button in the center of the screen that takes up 50% of the screen area and on clicking that one have it snapshot the current view and of course exclude the area it covers on screen ;) |
| [10:58] | Dzonatas Sol: | 719 - I wonder if the pop-up order that was imported earlier will have any affect on this |
| [10:58] | Daedalus Young: | money dialog - group notice - money dialog, get it in that order and the first money dialog will not show after closing the other 2 |
| [10:59] | Squirrel Wood: | I don't make enough money to have ever noticed that one |
| [10:59] | Benjamin Linden: | I was wondering that too Dzonatas |
| [10:59] | Iridium Linden: | lmfao, Squirrel. |
| [10:59] | Daedalus Young: | it will be back once you get another money dialog though |
| [10:59] | Aric Linden: | sounds as though focus isn't being set consistently |
| [10:59] | Daedalus Young: | I've noticed more quirks in these popups |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm not exactly sure I understand the problem, it sounds like it's related to the way the popus are queued |
| [11:00] | Daedalus Young: | like after a money dialog, the first group notice doesn't have the yellow >>> icon |
| [11:00] | Squirrel Wood: | humm. its tuesday... and it looks like the stipends did not yet pay out? could that be? |
| [11:00] | Dzonatas Sol: | Is it just appearance or are they really gone? |
| [11:00] | Aric Linden: | It seems as though focus order isn't remembered consistently and remembered |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | Ah the yellow chevron used to cycle between pop-ups? |
| [11:00] | Daedalus Young: | I get no stipends, so no :P |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | Aric, is the repro good enough on this to import? |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, Torley |
| [11:01] | Daedalus Young: | I can work on a video repro if needed |
| [11:01] | Torley Linden: | Also just FYI for official reasons we consistencize on calling Linden dollars, "L$", not "money". Legal issues involved with that. :) |
| [11:01] | Benjamin Linden: | that would be helpful Daedalus |
| [11:01] | Torley Linden: | Yeah you've done a lot of great ones Daedalus. |
| [11:01] | Aric Linden: | A video repro would help, but I think there's sufficient info to start with here. |
| [11:01] | Daedalus Young: | thanks, hope it's helpful :) |
| [11:01] | Iridium Linden: | kk, so we need to change the language here and import, yes? |
| [11:02] | Dzonatas Sol: | Torley, true, but LSL has money() =p |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, let's go ahead and import this |
| [11:02] | Torley Linden: | Dzon, we've wanted to change that for awhile. |
| [11:02] | Aric Linden: | It's not really a UI issue per se, I think, but rather an issue with how focus is being set and tracked |
| [11:02] | Torley Linden: | *imports* |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | Do we have time for one more? |
| [11:02] | Daedalus Young: | and llGiveMoney() |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | let's do one more and wrap it up for today |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-444 |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 1 - "My Active Title" drop-down does not refresh when role changes |
| [11:02] | Torley Linden: | Lots of 4's, that's my lucky number. |
| [11:02] | Dzonatas Sol grins lightly | |
| [11:03] | Tao Takashi is off again ... see you next time :) | |
| [11:03] | Tao Takashi: | maybe a bit more active then ;-) |
| [11:03] | Alissa Sabre: | (In Japan, 4 is considered an evil number...) |
| [11:03] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks for coming Tao! |
| [11:03] | Torley Linden: | Alissa: Yeah, for Chinese too... "death" |
| [11:03] | Dzonatas Sol: | is this fixed now, i think it is an old issue? |
| [11:03] | Iridium Linden: | Bye, Tao! |
| [11:03] | Dzonatas Sol at 444 | |
| [11:04] | Dzonatas Sol: | oh it is on the group window |
| [11:04] | Benjamin Linden: | yes |
| [11:04] | Torley Linden: | Hmm another Groups prob. |
| [11:04] | Squirrel Wood: | *shameless plug* VOTE for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1250 ^^ |
| [11:04] | Benjamin Linden: | this seems like a reasonably good repro, let's just take it |
| [11:05] | Torley Linden: | But I thought that was what the Group Information Refresh button was for? |
| [11:05] | Squirrel Wood: | and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1839 too while you're at it XD |
| [11:05] | Torley Linden: | (As Gigs describes.) |
| [11:05] | Iridium Linden: | So we'll import? |
| [11:05] | Torley Linden: | There's a number of things in the Group Info which require the Refresh button to update; as I recall, it was very difficult to keep everything updating in realtime. |
| [11:05] | Benjamin Linden: | sounds like Torley has some reservations |
| [11:05] | Torley Linden: | I'd suggest import it and asking someone who was involved with the Groups overhaul last year. |
| [11:05] | Torley Linden: | E.g., Don, Kelly, Jwolk. |
| [11:05] | Aric Linden: | Makes sense to me to try that |
| [11:05] | Benjamin Linden: | ok, Brent would know too |
| [11:06] | Torley Linden: | Yeah... |
| [11:06] | Torley Linden: | *imports* |
| [11:06] | Dzonatas Sol: | woot... nice work all |
| [11:06] | Torley Linden: | Yeah wow that felt good! |
| [11:06] | Aric Linden: | thanks all. |
| [11:06] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks for your help, everyone! |
| [11:07] | Iridium Linden: | Let's bump the others to the top of next week's agenda, kk? |
| [11:07] | Benjamin Linden: | don't forget to get in there and edit the agenda before next week |
| [11:07] | Squirrel Wood: | Oh my. |
| [11:07] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, sounds good Iridium |
| [11:07] | Dzonatas Sol: | 17 covered during this hours.. more before this |
| [11:07] | Squirrel Wood: | Good work ^^ |
| [11:07] | Benjamin Linden: | cool! |
| [11:07] | Dzonatas Sol: | take care |
| [11:07] | Torley Linden: | Yes thanks so much for coming and being with us! |
| [11:07] | Iridium Linden: | Bye, Dz! |
| [11:07] | Alan45 Beck: | Can some one help with a noob question? |
| [11:08] | Daedalus Young: | thank you guys too! |
| [11:08] | Alissa Sabre: | Ah, Vixen, may I talk? |
| [11:08] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks folks, see you on thursday! |