User:Brooke Linden/Office Hours Transcript 2011-02-03

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[09:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): hi everyone

[09:02] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): we should all be naked

[09:02] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): Hi Brooke

[09:02] TatianaDokuchic Varriale (tatianadokuchic.varriale): Hey Brooke

[09:02] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): yes sl is for naked

[09:02] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Hi Brooke!

[09:02] Sonya Haight (sonya.haight): hi Brooke

[09:02] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): as a VWorld, I mean.

[09:02] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Hola Brooke

[09:02] Sassy (sassy.romano): I have no ARC issues, just SL sims spontaneously kicking people off

[09:02] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): hi brooke

[09:02] bee Baroque (bee.baroque): hi brooke \o

[09:02] windyy Lane (windyy.lane): hi Brooke

[09:02] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): Hi Brooke

[09:02] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly) waves ...

[09:02] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): better yet disable rendering avatars

[09:02] CRUISE Bellic (cruise.bellic): hi Brooke

[09:02] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): high arcs dont really do much that setting is so inaccurate. scripts cause more lag then arc does. so does alphas

[09:02] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): Hi Brooke :)

[09:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so i'll wait a couple more minutes

[09:02] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): i mean as protest against nipple-gate ann

[09:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and then get started

[09:02] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Hi Brooke

[09:02] dana Archer (dana.archer): hi Brooke

[09:03] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): lol@Qwik

[09:03] Argus Jinx (argus.jinx): Hallooooo :) Brooke

[09:03] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): Hi, Brooke!

[09:03] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): ctrl-alt-shift=4 to use obsolete video cards

[09:03] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): lol 'zap'! ;0 you got me sass ;) hey hi brooke! :) is this a voice presentation?

[09:03] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): this should be a good meeting. im intrested in why after a year marketplace still is less functional then xstreet was the moment xstreet opened :-/

[09:03] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): 71 attendees total over 4 sims so far

[09:03] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): not ab ad turnout

[09:04] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): wonder why

[09:04] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): 2 totally different types of lag, ARC & script. ARC has almost no impact on the sim, other than perhaps when an AV enters and they are downloading

[09:04] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): lots of keen merchants....

[09:04] Argus Jinx (argus.jinx): nope poor main is not connecting

[09:04] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): lol

[09:04] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): SLM hasn't been out a year

[09:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): okay, so let's get started

[09:04] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): Brooke, before you tackle anything there's confusion about teens and skins. are the going to be permitted skins with bits and pieces? inworld it's been allowed to sell anatomical skins on PG sims if the images are covered. but the MP rules say you can't sell them as general if the inworld item has them... is this a new standard for inworld as well?

[09:04] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): i better behave. helicopter buzzing around irl

[09:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i sent out an updated agenda last night

[09:04] JubJub (jubjub.forder): Hello

[09:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): apologies that i've not had a chance to look this am at new responses

[09:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): just put something in chat if it needs to be covered

[09:04] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): nipples

[09:05] Sassy (sassy.romano): nipples

[09:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so we're on the clock for maturity

[09:05] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): they need to be coverd

[09:05] Sassy (sassy.romano): lol Qwik

[09:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): ha ha

[09:05] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): ;P

[09:05] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): :D

[09:05] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): on MP too

[09:05] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): Brooke: Coverage requested for currency exchange and moneyflow.

[09:05] Vila (vilandra.miles): hmpf, Bermuda

[09:05] Sassy (sassy.romano): well actually "female nipples" only

[09:05] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): only women nipples man nipples are ok ? lol

[09:05] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): good point sassy

[09:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so here's where we are

[09:05] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): sexist MP

[09:05] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): basically can you still sell female nipples on a PG sim if the images are covered? or do they have to be barbie/ken skins to be on a PG sim?

[09:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we are working on a fix that will make moderate the default if you are logged on over 18

[09:06] Argus Jinx (argus.jinx): into MP?

[09:06] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): THANK YOU!

[09:06] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): ah ok - a better solution

[09:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes

[09:06] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): good

[09:06] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Great

[09:06] Pud (pudenta.magic): WHAT????

[09:06] bee Baroque (bee.baroque): super

[09:06] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): why not adult?

[09:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i was hoping to be able to announce that this fix would be going out today

[09:06] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): there is only a selector for adult/not adult. are you ading a 3 selection option?

[09:06] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): as by being over 18 you are adult

[09:06] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): why not make inworld prefs match MP prefs

[09:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but late last night, we found an issue

[09:06] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): I thought that was to have been rolled out this past Tuesday?

[09:06] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): why am i not surrpised

[09:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): the ultimate goal is to make prefs match

[09:06] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): about your announcements..can you start using the blog for them too? searching through 22+ page forum thread isnt so easy.....

[09:06] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): glad it wasn't

[09:06] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Let her talk folks

[09:07] Hug & Kiss Deluxe Attachment (NX15): M&P Hug & Kiss NX Animations ready.

[09:07] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): need 3 check boxes so we can choose to see M only with no G or A.

[09:07] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): ;0 yah, chatter down a bit folks :)...

[09:07] Sassy (sassy.romano): Brooke, why was this change implemented with such poor communication, ill thought out and badly implemented automatic categorisation thus requiring merchants to waste a LOT of time dancing around a word filter that is not published and filters only English language (is this correct)?

[09:07] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): She will get to it

[09:07] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): that's coming, Ann

[09:07] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): I agree, Ann

[09:07] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): +1 ann

[09:08] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Nuuuuuuuuuuu!

[09:08] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Hi Brooke i have an issue , which is i was billed twice for ad on market place and charged for a category which i did not ask for i did submit a ticket and respond for it and thy aske me tosend Jira and jira team told me to send it support team

[09:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will see if there is any way to get this out before next tuesday, but that is our next deployment window

[09:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and i have seen comments about just turning this off or rolling it back

[09:08] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): in the meantime - are you rolling back the bot changes?

[09:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): that will take time as well

[09:08] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): lol

[09:08] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): shhh

[09:08] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): what will take time, Brooke?

[09:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if that went with or corporate decision at this point

[09:09] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): restorinh MP to old way rach

[09:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): rolling back the maturity release would take time

[09:09] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): and i was never refund the extra billing

[09:09] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): better to roll it back soon then right brooke?

[09:09] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Sales will be down and abuse reports will be up if it isn't

[09:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): continuing with maturity

[09:09] Sassy (sassy.romano): why was it planned and implemented so badly without communication to your major stakeholders? It's called a "Project Plan"

[09:09] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): will be faster LL doing it then Merchants doing it manually Brooke...

[09:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i know

[09:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i really wanted this fix

[09:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): trust me

[09:09] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): should complaints/arguments about the 'maturity release' be taken up with Rod Humble's office then?

[09:09] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): understandable - are you taling time like next tuesday, or could the rollback be done quicker than the default maturity?

[09:09] Juliette Pashinin (juliette.pashinin): I agree with landland, I've had duplicate charges and haven't received a response.

[09:09] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): landland: This discussion isn't for individual issues. It's for SL as a whole, or wastes time.

[09:10] Vila (vilandra.miles): never saw a Linden crash before...

[09:10] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): brooke when will your team learn to stop screwing up marketplace and to listen to your customers?

[09:10] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): amen

[09:10] 愛 (ai.velde): Brooke Linden, what I am curious about is evident bugs with the maturity filters in place. For example, the word "sexy" is flagged as adult for some, others not. The number 5 is flagged for some, others not. It seems like for some people's listings there are flagged words (whether incorrectly flagged or otherwise), but for other listings, those same words bring about a different forced filter. Is this something that has been taken note of, or, perhaps, will be fixed in a way that reflects a noticeable continuity between listings? It makes narrowing down problematic words impossible when "crotch" is fine for one person, but adult for another for example.

[09:10] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): rollback would take a couple of weeks and is not something we will do

[09:10] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): we got hte cheap seats on this side, seeing back of chair.

[09:10] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Brooke? Is it correct that the automatic detection of Mature/Adult words is done by patterns and not a "list" of specific words?

[09:10] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Yuuuuuuuus! and they send me to jira and jira tell me we have nothing to do witrh it

[09:10] Vila (vilandra.miles): nvm, saw a cloud...

[09:10] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): course you wont it would be SMART!

[09:10] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm merely using it as a point of comparison

[09:10] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): the fixes will also take time as well

[09:10] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Guys, please quit mongering, read the agenda, there's a new process for listing issues for the agenda

[09:10] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): amen

[09:10] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): seriously

[09:11] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): agenda please?

[09:11] Pud (pudenta.magic): *leaves in utter disgust*

[09:11] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): waves

[09:11] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole) goes to study how to"monger"

[09:11] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): lol

[09:11] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so keyword issues: we are working on fixing these, some may require a release

[09:11] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Agenda: it's on the Forums under the post for this meeting, in Commerce

[09:11] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Walking out will not change the world much

[09:11] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): If all we're meant to do is sit quietly while an edict/update is read, then time would be better spent just posting a blog entry

[09:11] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): i tweeted it twice including a lingk to the agenda

[09:11] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): can we have a list of flagged words in the meantime please Brooke?

[09:11] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): it would help appease some

[09:11] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will send an update later on--i do know that we have already fixed some words

[09:11] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): yeah thats good news. a 'sort by maturity' in the merchants area would also help greatly atm...

[09:11] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): just let her get the words out

[09:12] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): I owuld like such a list

[09:12] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): Agenda: http://x.co/M7Ru

[09:12] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): would*

[09:12] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): sorry took a while to get here xD

[09:12] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): ty ann

[09:12] Juliette Pashinin (juliette.pashinin): Thank you Ann

[09:12] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we will not be releasing a list of flagged words

[09:12] 愛 (ai.velde): TriloByte Zanzibar, I think a list of flagged words right now might not help much. There seems to be a continuity bug with the words. Like, "sexy" is fine for my listings but banned in others.

[09:12] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will let you know that "six" was fixed

[09:12] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): why not Brooke?

[09:12] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): lol

[09:12] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): why not brooke?

[09:12] Vila (vilandra.miles): well, we're having serious problems with: 5, x, an, gor, gorean ... etc. etc.

[09:12] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): automated change to listing ratings

[09:12] JubJub (jubjub.forder): will we be able to change the maturity setting if its flagged incorrectly?

[09:12] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): in case a minor sees it?

[09:12] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): Brooke: I don't get how you expect to match objects with inworld behaviour. How do you deal with the fact that you can use a penis for pissing and a carrot for sex, but you make one adult and the other general? And how do you expect to match a words blacklist to either?

[09:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we are working on a change to this behavior

[09:13] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): @ai, okay, but I didn't ask for a list of flagged words :)

[09:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): it will be discussed with a smaller group next week

[09:13] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): hmm what group

[09:13] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): how do we join this group?

[09:13] Sassy (sassy.romano): again, why did you not engage with your major stakeholders before rolling out this disaster? (that's us by the way)

[09:13] dana Archer (dana.archer): what about 5?

[09:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll get to that in the comm section

[09:13] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): pls

[09:13] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): "5" was causing a problem too.

[09:13] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): brooke

[09:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): working on 5--it's related to a bug but i think we might be able to work around

[09:13] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): its stupid to have a hidden filtering system that merchants wont regect when you use hidden filters and secrecy better suited for a kinder garden class then adult paying customers?

[09:13] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): goreans are all supposed to be adults so for that edge case they can enable adult. I cleaned all mine of that word because it just was not needed.

[09:13] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): land land = muted

[09:14] JubJub (jubjub.forder): will we be able to change the maturity setting if its flagged incorrectly?

[09:14] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): advanced search with saved prefs

[09:14] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Brooke, does that mean the plan is identify individual word issues one by one and fix them one by one?

[09:14] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): most people believe that the entire approach was wrong. The act of filtering by words. Why not have a flagging system in place?

[09:14] 愛 (ai.velde): TriloByte Zanzibar, really? o_O Your username must be getting mixed with others' messages because of the lag. lol

[09:14] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): is also being worked ont

[09:14] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): *on

[09:15] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): word filters is something most merchant systems for virtual worlds and real life merchants have gotten away from.

[09:15] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Brooke - Will that fix make it by next Tuesday?

[09:15] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): odd words like fist are supposedly sexual too but i think sometimes that is taking it a bit far.. Will every word that CAN be used to hint at sexual acts be restricted? People will just make up new ones as they always do when censored.

[09:15] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Qwik pls learn to be polite

[09:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so people will be able to choose and this will be integrated with viewer settings

[09:15] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): so why this stubbron refusal to go to a sane system?

[09:15] Vila (vilandra.miles): well, those playing gorean roleplay should be adult. therefore the sims are rated that way. that doesn't make a tunic that fits gorean roleplay adult by nature now, does it?

[09:15] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Brooke im lost in here

[09:15] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): viewer settings

[09:15] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): ?

[09:15] 愛 (ai.velde): Honestly, this whole thing is quite 'pulling teeth', especially when, I personally think the merchants and customers have done a good job policing listings. But then again, this system has been abused extensively as well, and is also faulty.

[09:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): as of this am, we will be switchin over to have keyword issues go through customer service

[09:16] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): So .. file a ticket?

[09:16] Sassy (sassy.romano): what does that mean exactly?

[09:16] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): you mean support???

[09:16] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): oh yay

[09:16] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): oh great - you mean ignored

[09:16] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): so your approach really is one by one, and we'll be filing tickets for words we're not even sure are on the list?

[09:16] 愛 (ai.velde): What customer service?

[09:16] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will be keeping the jira open until we get the fixes out next tuesday

[09:16] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): on the pile then?

[09:16] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): since we don't know what's causing items to be flagged?

[09:16] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Lol.

[09:16] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): which means it will never get fixed

[09:16] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): as in put in a ticket and wait for an answer for 3 weeks?

[09:16] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): they are the ones reviewing the jira

[09:16] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): jira's do not get assigned much either

[09:16] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so it's not different

[09:16] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): This is not efficient or effective, I have to say

[09:16] Meri (mericatherine.quinnell): my ticket from August got a response yesterday

[09:16] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): it's just making the process work within their tool set

[09:16] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): when is the toolset office hours?

[09:16] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): ok...i notice flagged listings still can be slow... (remember that notecard i sent you?) will tht be changing. when will you be encouraging users to flag? will better editing options for merchant be in place before this time?

[09:16] Sassy (sassy.romano): Why did you fail to engage with your customer base, the key stakeholders here? I'm not getting it at all? It's BASIC project management!

[09:17] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): but a jira is open for all to see - a ticket isn't

[09:17] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): what about the lists that had been posted to the jira as you requested? Will they need to be resubmitted? When can we expect to see them actioned?

[09:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, onto the next item

[09:17] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): brooke surely it would be better to admit the whole idea was wrong and rething the situation after a rollback

[09:17] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): so we will be duplicating like crazy

[09:17] 愛 (ai.velde): We NEED a way to fix these things ourselves like adults should, because if we have a problem, asking for help from support won't go very far. We need to be given the tools to police our own listings, and correct them unless there's a bug at play.

[09:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): there have been a lot of comments on gorean content

[09:17] Sassy (sassy.romano): next lessons learned... NONE!

[09:17] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): But the process if flawed, Brooke, and it's wasting thousands of hours of our time and effecting sales. How is that good for us, or LL?

[09:17] Eponymous Trenchmouth (eponymous.trenchmouth): Why does "provides an easy way" get a Mature rating, whereas "allows you" is General?

[09:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and most of you have discovered that we consider this moderate

[09:17] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Broooke pls what is going on about the double billing issues

[09:17] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): what i dont understand any child if the y want to can find pron on google

[09:17] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): why mess up mp

[09:17] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): The fundamental issue is that an extremely simplistic filtering methodology will just never work properly for something as complex as SLM. Personally I think the filtering should be entirely scrapped and leave it up to merchants to act properly, plus flagging to deal with people who don't act properly. _If_ you are going to persist with filtering, it urgently needs to be replaced with something far more sophistocated, such as a variation on the Bayesian filtering found in SpamAssassin, with very finely grained weightings for both individual words and a very low weighting for anything which appears in the keywords field.

[09:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): this is not going to change

[09:18] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): this is very hard to follow

[09:18] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): please keep them constructive

[09:18] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): what sort of comments are productive, Brooke. I'd love to make one?

[09:18] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lindens rock jonno

[09:18] 愛 (ai.velde): Pauline, LL has always stuck to their guns on decisions, and will throw us a bone as they see fit. The system they have is likely not going anywhere, but they may humour us with some minor changes to make it somewhat more bearable.

[09:18] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): i was advised from dakota to contact jira and jira team told me its ur roll

[09:18] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): English is a much too complex language to filter. A phrase such as "A Blue Tit cocking its head at a pussy cat" is in no way adult, but anything other than a highly sophistocated filter will match that

[09:19] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): thats only ones seen fit even wen they messin thing s up

[09:19] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): I must say .. I am disappointed that the keyword flagging system as it stands now is being retained. I would like to hear that something with more intelligence and flexibility is being considered.

[09:19] JubJub (jubjub.forder): a filter will never outwit a human

[09:19] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Brooke, content that is sexual in nature -- truly sexual or MOderate or Adult -- is fine to deal with. But you are defining Gorean and Gor as necessarily sexual or explicit in nature, and it is not.

[09:19] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): I really believe it would be constructive to pull this process, and start over with proper consulation on what us, your customers want

[09:19] Vila (vilandra.miles): I agree to consider gorean roleplay as mature (moderate or adult, whatsoever). but clothing, furniture, plants etc. etc. are not.

[09:19] 愛 (ai.velde): It's best to take what they've given us and try to get some small compromises along the way.

[09:19] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): Brooke?

[09:19] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): sorry brook this is madness atm with everybody asking this and that without waiting..

[09:19] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): Brooke, I can tell you that without due attention to a competitive 2nd currency exchange and attention to SL moneyflow, there ***WILL*** be mass exodus. You can literally bank on it.

[09:19] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we have been discussing impreovemnts to the way we are applying our filtering

[09:20] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so stay tuned for that

[09:20] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): 'escort' isn't mature either.. just ask Ford

[09:20] Eponymous Trenchmouth (eponymous.trenchmouth): lol

[09:20] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so we are at 15 min

[09:20] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): they do not understand yet that the losses us as merchants have is directly linked to the pink slips they will have in a few months

[09:20] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): TY Brooke. That is of great important. Please make that a subject you share progress on frequently.

[09:20] 愛 (ai.velde): Chances are anything that will double as something mature will be flagged "to be safe than sorry.", Actingill.

[09:20] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): Sweet: You're apparently correct.

[09:20] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): soif it isn't necessarily gorean then take that word out. simple.

[09:20] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i can give post mortem feedback or move on to other topics

[09:20] JubJub (jubjub.forder): will there be a manual override system for incorrectly flagged items?

[09:20] CRUISE Bellic (cruise.bellic): im out of there lol thanks for your time brooke...people need to learn how to be an adult lol

[09:20] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): anyp progress allready ? from last week tests and bigs?

[09:20] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): someday they will understand this

[09:20] Sassy (sassy.romano): It's pretty disgraceful that a key meeting where we expected feedback on a MAJOR issue that is affecting all is rolled over with "stay tuned" lol

[09:20] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): via the blog! not via forums too...although i appreciate you getting involved there, merhcants need a central point to find info quickly...

[09:20] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): sim surrounds aint mature but 70 items got removed of mine guess its just LL's wonderful way of telling you they are fixing things

[09:20] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): ok ok!! ;0 brooke, take your time and just let them burn off their energy lol...

[09:20] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Post Mortem please.

[09:20] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Some form of smart filtering, such as Bayesian, is the only way the filter will work with low levels of trouble if it's to have such a broad set of things to match

[09:20] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): please stay with this topic, Brooke. It's critical

[09:21] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): ok

[09:21] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will

[09:21] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): What was wrong with the MP as it was?

[09:21] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Only constructive feedback then please

[09:21] Dancing Lemon (dancing.lemon) tuts

[09:21] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): here are the top lessons learned

[09:21] Sassy (sassy.romano): NONE

[09:21] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): is there any chance you will consider removing the filter?

[09:21] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): + earlier communication and feedback from merchants/residents

+ manage turnover more effectively and understand its impact to release schedules

+ better evaluation of tuesday vs thursday release

+ better built in ways to manage the migration process

[09:21] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): 1 dont trust a linden to fix anythin

[09:21] Veralis Basevi (veralis.basevi): lol@sassy so tru

[09:21] 愛 (ai.velde): Sassy Romano, Brooke gave us a 15 minute time limit on this issue... I'm not sure why as it is currently the biggest issue we merchants can agree on, but oh well, can't force the lady. lol

[09:21] Sassy (sassy.romano): understand your customers... you said previously that you felt our pain, show it!

[09:21] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): there are a lot of things that could have been done better

[09:21] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): communication has improved some so well done for that...but yeah blog is important :)

[09:22] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): or announcments in the merchant area

[09:22] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and so i'm working on the above things

[09:22] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): can still be done

[09:22] JubJub (jubjub.forder): will there be a manual override or will we be forced to change our texts

[09:22] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): ty Brooke

[09:22] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): how about listening as well as talking?

[09:22] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): or ghosting the system before implementing it on the main MP

[09:22] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Is our feedback considered valuable or helpful to you guys, Brooke? Because it's difficult to know at times.

[09:22] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): agree and sorry i most say my point to most of ya guys iv been working for a game company it self.. and ye there is lots of work to do .. and WE CANNOT expect to get everything done at once.. m sorry

[09:22] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Better ways to manage migration - Does that mean prepare for and ensure a rollback method is in place BEFORE releasing a major change like this?

[09:22] Sassy (sassy.romano): well we have 13 minutes left to explain basic project management then, all of those topics of lessons learned are right at the beginning chapters *sighs*

[09:23] 愛 (ai.velde): Brooke, the biggest problem is LL keeps trying to fix things that don't need to be fixed. I don't mean the maturity thing, but generally! lol

[09:23] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): its not allways what we see here ingame in scripts or in objects.. ..

[09:23] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so i'm just trying to catch up in chat

[09:23] Sassy (sassy.romano): Darrius... Change Control Board.. lol (missing!)

[09:23] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): :0 if i may say out loud one thing - folks i've had to go through this self-censoring process already over time, starting back with xstreet! don't act like the fort is burning down; just take your time to fix back up your listings!

[09:23] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): hammer through the agenda Brooke. an hor is not enough so must stick to play plan.

[09:23] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Qwik if tyou dont trust Linden well you are in the wrong place , lindens are doing their best to help us they are human like us and remeber they are giving us the chance to gain some money

[09:23] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): sorry it's work, but it's been part of the rules already for so long

[09:23] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): one thing i noticed this week you unlisted a LOT of my items after the change.... with no notification, nothing in merchant area or email.... that's bad....

[09:23] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): They need to provide a view into SL for PG/Mature/Adult as to people's wishes. I think it's all progress, folks.

[09:23] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): merchants should always be notified if an item is unlisted

[09:24] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): read the results and what's been happening in the forums, Nyoko, before you offer blanket statements, please

[09:24] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): besides on the 8th we switch to user groups right?

[09:24] Archetypus Deed (archetypus.deed): I agree ann

[09:24] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): some specifics on that: having a roll back plan in place or some way to toggle on/off is something that is worth doing on some of these

[09:24] Madame Couturier (madame.couturier) seconds Ann's suggestion

[09:24] 愛 (ai.velde): I think the merchants are a low maintenance bunch (don't laugh), we just want to be left alone. Because as soon as people were recovering from the marketplace transition, the maturity thing was jumped on us. Everyone's angry because they're stressed and exhausted.

[09:24] JubJub (jubjub.forder): tahts been a jira for ages Yoshi. as has retaining paging preferences

[09:24] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): im sorry Im lost, roll back of?

[09:24] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): TY Brooke .. and agreed. Also testing against a subset before testing on the whole population.

[09:24] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): a rollback plan should always be available for ANY change

[09:24] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): roll back of any change

[09:25] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): please allow us merchants the same time limitys lindens have to fix things thank you

[09:25] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): is it not in place now then for changes?

[09:25] Sassy (sassy.romano): who is leading this project to screw up all the maturity ratings, can we have a name please?

[09:25] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): sometimes we chose to not have a rollback plan due to time constraints and low risk

[09:25] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): oh yes. such as the filters, you learned booboo, ops no backup.kk on same page

[09:25] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): nothing 'blanket' about that; it's experience

[09:25] Magnet Homewood (magnet.homewood): (writing in half sentences is not a good idea here, the other half appears after half a page of text)

[09:25] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): The only 'fixable' things I can say could have been worked on instead was lag levels, Avatar options [such as dressing etc etc] and of course the customer support. XS and the MP seemed fine for the most part. Just sayin'.

[09:25] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): in this case a better migration (i.e. communication, learning up front for merchants, a temporary test system)

[09:25] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): im trying to focus on you Brooke, but its hard...

[09:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): those are all options

[09:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): in the future

[09:26] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): low risk????? 70 items delisted MP income gone to 0 is not low risk brooke

[09:26] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): cool

[09:26] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): You have 70 merchants here and instead of listening to what we are saying, you are telling us how you plan to listen in the future.

[09:26] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): to merchants thats high risk

[09:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i didn't say this was low risk

[09:26] Vila (vilandra.miles): one favor: never ever again invent such change on a Thursday. The week has some other beautiful days... like Monday or Tuesday. thanks

[09:26] Sassy (sassy.romano): Brooke, you continue to post fundamental PM guidelines, WHY weren't they followed for such a critical project? Who leads this?

[09:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes, you saw the tuesdy vs. thursday note

[09:26] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): i beg to differ brooke

[09:26] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): [9:25] Brooke Linden: sometimes we chose to not have a rollback plan due to time constraints and low risk

[09:26] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): I've was an IT consultant for a number of years, and never came across a company of any size that implemented changes without a rollback plan Brooke. If that happens at LL i suggest a rethink by your project managers and change control board

[09:26] Mocksoup Graves (mocksoup.graves): The filtering system doesn't even work. There is no way to do a boolean search.

[09:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we definitely learned from that

[09:26] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): get a random selection of us nobodies in your selection of merchants there Brooke. just fyi.

[09:26] Vila (vilandra.miles): ty

[09:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so the other aspect is that there was a lot of turnover

[09:27] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): Well, it was good to see everyone. I've learned what I need to. Thanks again for the link, Argus. Any questions as to my departure from the meeting can be addressed to Rachel Darling. She understands my thinking, and my plans.

[09:27] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): OK, Brooke; I can accept that. However, if you're still going to not publish the words list, then how are we going to "learn" better and be prepared, and operate efficiently? And why is there a "no publish" policy, as it doesn't seem to make logical sense?

[09:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and so we need to work on handling that better

[09:27] BizTutor Magic (biztutor.magic): Bye for now, all!

[09:27] LФVIИG (loving.clarity) sighs and just lets them vent

[09:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i inherited a project in the middle

[09:27] JubJub (jubjub.forder): turnover = staff replacements?

[09:27] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): i notice when i edit an item....sometimes it says its been moved to adult/moderate...in a green box...however it doesnt go back to the edit page, i have to re-find and re-edit the item again.....any chance you could keep the edit page open after update if you've automaically made a change?

[09:27] 愛 (ai.velde): I agree with Jonno. We have all been reamed by this maturity thing, very briefly after the botched marketplace transition. A lot of us our at our wits end of losing money, time, customers, patience, and most importantly, ENJOYMENT. Being a merchant should be fun, not a constant struggle.

[09:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): you all know that pink, grant and brodesky all left w/in the past year

[09:27] Sassy (sassy.romano): so you're leading this project Brooke?

[09:28] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): i hoppe u stay strong enuff to work the project better for us brooke

[09:28] Vila (vilandra.miles): 2nd Yoshi

[09:28] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): and instead of improving it brooke by listening to what the ppl who use it want you have implemented changes that affect us all in a bad way

[09:28] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): looks like u will need it

[09:28] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i only led the marketplace portion

[09:28] 愛 (ai.velde): I thought Pink was laid off?

[09:28] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Yoshi .. please make that a JIRA and post the link in the Commerce Forum. I'll vote for it.

[09:28] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i don't know why or how people left

[09:28] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i know they are gone

[09:28] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): it'd be great if you culd tell us who the new team are...ie, who we can contact directly for techy issues, customer service, general queries etc...

[09:28] Sassy (sassy.romano): but this is very very recent, it's still basic PM to communicate with your stakeholders and have a plan, is there actually a plan?

[09:28] Mocksoup Graves (mocksoup.graves): Is there a plan to put in workable search features for example bed -sex would take away any of the sex beds.

[09:28] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): as long as the team can write html in notepad and develop spree apps/options then all is good.

[09:29] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): to be honest - whats happened has happened. The key thing is to get back to a workable state of affairs ASAP. That to my mind means a rollback

[09:29] 愛 (ai.velde): She was cut in the 30% workforce cut a few months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if Grant and brodesky did leave though. They had it rough, I must say.

[09:29] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Yoshi that was last week -- read the transcript

[09:29] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): LL laid off over 100 employees Brooke

[09:29] Nico Bascom (nico.bascom): 2/3 of the lindens were let go last year

[09:29] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Why do we have to rely on supprt for some of the issues mentioned here whilst the clear intention of LL has been advertised to be self support and less supportstaff?

[09:29] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Brooke -- that's understandable. The question is, how do we move forward? You're doing great in initiating conversations, but we also need to know that they can have impact.

[09:29] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): ok thanks pamela

[09:29] 愛 (ai.velde): AGREED, Amon.

[09:29] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): our decision and the company policy decision is to move forward with fixing maturity

[09:29] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): So this Maturity project was begun and assigned a deadline BEFORE you arrived Brooke?

[09:29] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so that is what we will be doing

[09:29] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): but again its not easy to find info for merchants ;P

[09:29] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): yes@Rachael

[09:29] Sassy (sassy.romano): was it broken?

[09:29] 愛 (ai.velde): As I was saying, we need the tools to fix things ourself while support is as poor as it is.

[09:30] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): well, fixing the bugs we have seen

[09:30] Sassy (sassy.romano): um, the bug is the recent introduction of a filter that we can't understand how to work with

[09:30] 愛 (ai.velde): I'm not trying to insult support, I understand LL is likely understaffed, but if we have no choice but to self-help, we need to actually be able to when it comes to our own products.

[09:30] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): how about before you drop this stuff on us you test it first is that to much to ask you rush to get teens on this grid before it is even safe for them to be here why?

[09:30] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): please dont fix bugs and create new ones tho Brooke ㋡ *smiles*

[09:30] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so the reason the release is not going out today

[09:30] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): ;0 lol but that is always too easy to do sometimes

[09:30] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): @sweet what did brook said before? things get tested on the test server

[09:31] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): is b/c we want to make sure it is fully tested

[09:31] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): the split between mature and adult is not teen related as both are for 18+ only

[09:31] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): @ Ai: Exactly. Would also give everyone at LL more breathing space and less stress on their back if they let people manage their own things.

[09:31] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): so you will "fix" maturity but if I want to list a table as being suitable for a gorean sim so that goreans might find it when searching for appropriate tables, it'll be moderate. Yet replace gorean with Medieval and it's a general item? why isn't it based on the item and not who we choose to market it to?

[09:31] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): cool

[09:31] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): if they are tested then they are not being tested correctly or long enough

[09:31] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): that doesnt mean they share info what there current status is of testing

[09:31] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): there wasnt a bug in the first place const its an ll creadted issue they now are making out they are trying to fix something that wasnt a problem to being wit

[09:31] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Brooke, I really urge you to look beyond just fixing the bugs with maturity, and to a complete reimplementation using a vastly more sophisticated methodology, such as Bayesian filters

[09:31] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): it is always rushed

[09:31] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): +1 pauline

[09:31] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): We're lucky, most companies do not listen, even this much.

[09:31] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): true Vex

[09:32] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): ok -- testing is good. But will you employ merchant volunteers to help with that testing? Because often we're finding issues that the dev team doesn't even seem to recognize as potential issues. This was also the case with the Beta SLM volunteer testers.

[09:32] Troy Vogel (troy.vogel): oh I dont know... listening and *LISTENING and CHANGING* are two different things

[09:32] Troy Vogel (troy.vogel): a Micrphone listens too

[09:32] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm not sure there is more to say on maturity right now

[09:32] 愛 (ai.velde): Agreed my tasty fellow Velde. :P That goes back to my original point. We just want to be left alone and stop having some force we very nearly can't fight against mucking around with our things.

[09:32] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): holy smack i just figured out how tosave an outfit lmao

[09:32] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): that has been discussed in the last meeting

[09:32] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): muhahahaha :)Brooke Linden 17:21, 4 February 2011 (PST)

[09:32] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): ann

[09:32] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): so what can we expect to see over the next week on marketplace? what can merhants be doing to help you?

[09:32] Nico Bascom (nico.bascom): the only wat to truely test changes, is inworld with all of it,s interactions

[09:32] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): To resurrect a term from last week Brooke .. if management dictates a deadline that you know cannot be met without problems .. that's when to apply "pushback".

[09:32] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): brook is testing things her self .. and also others are testing and hunting bugs

[09:32] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): If I had a request it would be that the Lindens would work on and improve the Marketplace options for Merchants. Seems rediculous to me that I cannot search for how many of a product sold in a certain timeframe, for example.

[09:33] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): to get everything as fast as possible done

[09:33] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): and working properly

[09:33] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): Brooke, may I please ask again about anatomical skins inworld? this effects a LOT of merchants and it is unclear if teens will be permitted anatomical skins... if that is no longer permitted on PG sims, merchants need to know.

[09:33] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): :0 i did not know there -was- a prob with it; i guess the problem is the problem wasn't spelled out somewhere ;0

[09:33] Vila (vilandra.miles): I wonder, how many teens will be there... 5000 is the figure of residents on the old teen grid, minus the alts and the amount of those not logging in any longer, minus those that don't want to move or simply are to lazy to get into the new grid... leaves about 2K or so residents, if at all... and they bring in how much money? they're teens, so it's most likely not like they have a creditcard. looking at that, imagining the digits and then looking around HERE and imagining the digits... I wonder where are the greater losses.

[09:33] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): you cannot expect everything works perfectly.. you cannot ask that.. we are working with a system..

[09:33] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): the lindens should fix the problems that already exist instead ofcreating new ones like the 3rd maturity rating

[09:33] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Brooke? "Fully Tested" ... that refers to the "Smaller Group" you mentioned early on in this meeting?

[09:33] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): Brooke one final point on the default maturity rating of moderate when logged in as over 18. That itself doesn't fix the issue that products are in the wrong category and merchants are loosing sales to the under 18s.

[09:34] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): how can she possibly read all these questions?

[09:34] Sassy (sassy.romano): doesnt matter Tarina, she isn't

[09:34] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): lol

[09:34] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i meant by our qa on this particular set of fixes--they are actually pretty isolated

[09:34] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): there is to much, no one could

[09:34] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm trying

[09:34] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): She can't possibly read them and type

[09:34] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm going to have to read them all later

[09:34] Troy Vogel (troy.vogel): Let's leave the reassurance delivery to the Linden team.... and focus on stating resident/merchant questions.... please.

[09:34] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): keep breathing brooke ;)

[09:34] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): welcome tothe insanity Brooke mwuahahahahhahhhh

[09:35] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Is there any chance that you can implement a subset of actual Merchants to test the release prior to release and in tandem with SQA?

[09:35] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): alll the quiet lindens present can take notes and answer on forums for us ;)

[09:35] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): What is the plan to deal with listings which did not get auto-changed and are still in G, leaving the responsible merchants who are trying to abide by the new levels at a serious competitive disadvantage?

[09:35] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): you're doing well, all things considered. That's what transcripts are for.

[09:35] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): well wen you do plz get in touch as to why 70 sim surrounds were delisted they are not adult nor do they have anything that could be contrude in any way as adult

[09:35] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): hammer through

[09:35] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): i just crashed for first part.. so I will need to review keywords

[09:35] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): ;0 have to 'surf the chat' a bit, ride the wave ;)

[09:35] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so i'd actually like to move on to comm and discuess how that fits in with maturity

[09:35] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lol ann thats what they did to MP an look what happend

[09:36] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): this will be super quick

[09:36] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): <-- ready to move on ...

[09:36] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling) nods

[09:36] Sassy (sassy.romano): LOL... communications... quick

[09:36] Archetypus Deed (archetypus.deed): ditto

[09:36] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): well, mostly it's that changes are in the works

[09:36] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): That sounds typical you have no idea

[09:36] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): yea?I sell a ton of single script resizersd on SLM.must be werkin.

[09:36] Actingill Igaly (actingill.igaly): I have to go now. but thankyou brooke for holding what was always going to be a difficult OH. I hope the fix works out well

[09:36] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): I bet LL developers need a strong cup of coffee right now. Lol. Still, only time will will tell what changes will happen. Either for good or bad. Aha.

[09:37] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): right now all office hours are becoming "user groups"

[09:37] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): yay

[09:37] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): e.g. there are currently around 7,000 items in a G-only search for "BDSM", which rather leaves a lot of people out in the cold (those forced to A). A secondary issue on that is that "BDSM" should be a M keyword, not A, as not all BDSM falls under the description in the policy (you can see BDSM activities during daylight hours on the streets of San Francisco just a short walk from LL HQ, in the SoMA area around Folsom St, for example, it's clearly accepted as more of an M thing in LL's home city!)

[09:37] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): Please, Brooke, we spent almost an hour in group trying to figure out the answer to this and a lot of merchants are hoping to get clarification. If you sell skins with nipples and genitalia, they are NOT general on MP, even if the pictures are censored. that is NOT congruent with how things are/have been inworld. are we to infer that teens are not permitted anatomical skins?

[09:37] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): by that you mean? just a change in name? or?

[09:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, on the skins

[09:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): give me a min

[09:38] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): im gonna make a raise hand anim brooke and you can do this like we in school ;)

[09:38] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): ok, thank you

[09:38] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): bummer. i'll have to listen to GOA trance 24*7 insteadiof just at OH

[09:38] Trax The Rebelion (traxer.hellmann): lols @ qwik ;)

[09:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so focus groups will have people pulled from across the economy based up on revenue, nubmer of sales, etc

[09:38] dana Archer (dana.archer): maybe the maturity rating guidleines should aslo state that certain undefinable words may make your listing M or A even though the item itself is G

[09:39] 愛 (ai.velde): lol. Yeah for these we need a question thing. Put up your question sign and wait to be called on. lolol

[09:39] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): ...

[09:39] Nico Bascom (nico.bascom): there is a flaw in search which some merchants are exploiting

[09:39] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): what did she mean office hours are becoming "user groups" ?

[09:39] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and people will be able to volunteer

[09:39] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): (maybe in future we should have to submit questions to one of the other Lindens to get passed on, like chat group meetings)

[09:39] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): amen

[09:39] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): and this will be sent via email brooke ?

[09:39] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): so no more open office hours like this?

[09:39] Vila (vilandra.miles): I wonder if they'll get the emails...

[09:39] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): Rachel, good idea

[09:39] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll be doing a rolling set of people to get a wide variety of feedback

[09:39] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): You volunteer after this session to answer more questions then

[09:39] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Because normal people don't have genitalia in real life. Just sayin' again.

[09:39] 愛 (ai.velde): lmao

[09:40] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Focus groups and user groups are different right?

[09:40] Ann Otoole (ann.otoole): so brooke you best learn really fast that the hyped crap of SL does not equal who isd payiong your salary. Better learn that real damned fast and start ignoring the top hyoped crap hawkers

[09:40] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): so an elitist group rather then drown from all merchants even the newer ones that could provide valuable input Brooke?

[09:40] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): only based on revenue and number of sales, Pam? Because some of us feel our businesses and sales have been effected by the current marketplace. Or will you create multiple groups in different revenue categories?

[09:40] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): You show us you like this world as we do instead of as work

[09:40] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Brooke pls when its possible to talk about the double billing issues

[09:40] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): the smaller businesses usually dont have any say in anything

[09:40] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): double billing is being investigated

[09:40] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): a mix of revenues, she means

[09:40] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): cross section

[09:40] JubJub (jubjub.forder): plus volunteers

[09:40] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): yes, and Im a super model rl

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): that is why we will be pulling people across the economic spectrum--to get small businesses as well

[09:41] Sharayah (sharayah.munro): yeah!!!

[09:41] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Focus groups and user groups are different right?

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): this will take a bit of time to put in place

[09:41] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): brooke a number of merhcants have asked repeatedly for a focus group at LL to deal with all content creation issues... how would that fit in these special focus groups? and how likely is it that the critics of the market place team would even be allowed in these groups?

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes they are different

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if this session is any indication

[09:41] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): I Did submit a ticket to and dakota linden told me to submit a ticket to u jira and jira told me its the support team

[09:41] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Ok good

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): it's very hard to even keep up

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): focus groups allow for conversation

[09:41] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Hw do you volunteer?

[09:41] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): thank you, Brooke. That's good news

[09:41] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): i agree there brooke

[09:41] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): *How

[09:41] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): agree

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll be following up

[09:41] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): heh...i guess a lot of merchants have been waiting for a lot of answers, your time is appreciated

[09:41] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lol beingabel to turn off chat and only speak wen spoken to would make things easier brooke

[09:41] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): just a though

[09:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i need to come up with a good way to do so

[09:41] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): t

[09:42] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): :0 more regular meetings help spread it out a bit, lol ;)

[09:42] 愛 (ai.velde): What bloody topic, if any, are we on right now? I wanted to comment on the brilliance of the mentioned "PIOF to sell inworld and on SLM" move ... It's brilliant.

[09:42] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): Using 4 sims is a little mad for a office hours :)

[09:42] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): i think anyone that is a merchant on the MP should be included and ask for the info via email some will imput some will not that is your best way than picking certain people for imput

[09:42] Vila (vilandra.miles): if they arrive

[09:42] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): PIOF to sell yes

[09:42] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we are also working on a merchant survey

[09:42] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): i agree sweet

[09:42] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): put the merchants forum to use in that way....throw out your updates/ideas ask us for feedback...

[09:42] Argus Collingwood (argus.collingwood): good

[09:42] 愛 (ai.velde): That's just wonderful, Pamela. I love the sound of it.

[09:42] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Focus groups are a good idea, the merchants talk in the Group chat, issues get raised in forums and brought forward.

[09:42] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Only PIOF can sell now?

[09:42] Matteo Harris (matteo.harris): agreed, ask all merchants

[09:42] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): I hope the survey will have a free text area for comments

[09:43] 愛 (ai.velde): Soon it seems, Ashasekayi.

[09:43] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): I'm still waiting on my maturity annoucement email

[09:43] Sassy (sassy.romano): "what did you think to our implementation of 3 ratings on MP? a) inspired, b) brilliant or c) highly effective"

[09:43] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): :) if hours were 'user groups' instead, might encourage its own attendance, instead of hanging it upon the presence of a linden

[09:43] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lol sassy

[09:43] Sonya Haight (sonya.haight): I think it was one of the to be voted on things Ai

[09:43] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): How did I miss that? O.o

[09:43] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): but that's a pro/con to some ;)

[09:43] Eponymous Trenchmouth (eponymous.trenchmouth): lol sassy

[09:43] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Haha @ Sassy

[09:43] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): maybe define the diff and make a schedule like that instead :)

[09:44] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so we are also working on updating our communication tools

[09:44] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): which should help

[09:44] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): we already see the hand picked people on the MP featured and how hand picking gets abused

[09:44] Veralis Basevi (veralis.basevi): exactly sweet

[09:44] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but i will continue to cross post forums to twitter and the in world chat

[09:44] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): cool

[09:44] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Thank you Brooke for ur help indeed

[09:44] Sharayah (sharayah.munro) shakes head at "why" twitter

[09:44] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): more one way communications

[09:44] 愛 (ai.velde): We could run it like Jury Duty! At random, you get called in for 'user group' duty. ;D

[09:45] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): Notices please to Brooke, we dont all live in the USA

[09:45] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): heh

[09:45] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): but dont forget the main blog....easy for EVERYONE to see

[09:45] 愛 (ai.velde): If you try to get out of it, you get set on fire.

[09:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so the primary spot for comms i am trying to make the commerce forum

[09:45] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): you get paid for jury duty ai

[09:45] Nico Bascom (nico.bascom): oh I l almost forgot, there are people in SL who sell things for nothing which seems to have been copied from lagediment merchants. this is killing many sales

[09:45] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): meh, just do a lottery. we can all put our names in a digital "hat" and each week you pick out however many attendees and that's the focus group. easiest way to get a random cross section. and should be fairly easy and random with UUIDs

[09:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): for frequent comms

[09:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): while we are moving towards better tools

[09:45] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): Brooke, twitter is not SL.

[09:45] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): The lottery idea is interesting.

[09:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm going to do random

[09:46] 愛 (ai.velde): Only problem is it tends to be a place of bloodshed but I guess that's to be expected...

[09:46] JubJub (jubjub.forder): Do you have an "email all merchants" funtion?

[09:46] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Yes, the forum is excellent for the primary spot, but please make sure the important announcements are done in the blog section rather than forum threads section, to aid visibility

[09:46] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): i rather have an inwold wher eim at working than using all these twitter facebook myspace ect etc we shoul dhave a ticker inb SL for updates so we know something important is on the blog

[09:46] Sonya Haight (sonya.haight): which is where we post feedback or questions for the OH's?

[09:46] 愛 (ai.velde): That's excellent, Brooke. The commcerce forums are bustling with life, I think. Many merchants and power sellers post there with valid ideas and opinions.

[09:46] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): do you mean the commerce forum or the roundtable, Brooke? some (obviously not myself) are having issues being added.

[09:46] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Agree Ai

[09:46] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): random like the way enhanched listings are shown or trulyrandom?

[09:46] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Dear Brooke.. read this later.. One of the most frustrating things for most of us is that we do not feel heard. You can state all you want but this is not making US (the paying customer) feel better. This office hours is not for YOU but for US. If i am wrong just post an article or post your twitters.. LL is not very in touch with residents.

[09:46] Hug & Kiss Deluxe Attachment (NX15): M&P Hug & Kiss NX Animations ready.

[09:46] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll be doing all "user group" agenda gathering in the commerce forums--and will do my best to post other items there as well

[09:47] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): yay

[09:47] 愛 (ai.velde): That's wonderful, Brooke. Thank you!

[09:47] Sassy (sassy.romano): random is not smart, you'll likely get people with no interest in the topics of concern or a failure to understand the issues and we've just seen a great demo of how that pans out

[09:47] 2WAT Michigan (2wat.michigan): :-)

[09:47] 愛 (ai.velde): I think that will make a lot of the 'louder voices' out of us feel heard and respected if that medium is used.

[09:47] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): agree

[09:47] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): ok...can you sticky thse posts? i get put off the foums with all that gold spam...

[09:47] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Sounds good Brooke

[09:47] Sharayah (sharayah.munro): also true Sassy

[09:47] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): thanks for that Brooke.

[09:47] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): ok, Brooke -- but once the agenda is defined, can you post it as a Commerce Blog post, with comments disabled if necessary?

[09:47] Sonya Haight (sonya.haight): oops I meant user group, thanks for the answer

[09:48] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i would like to post to the blog, still working on making that happen :)

[09:48] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): ok

[09:48] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): ah; gotcha, thanks.

[09:48] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): great

[09:48] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): skins?

[09:48] 愛 (ai.velde): Generally, if there are any merchants here now who do not check the Commerce Forums regularly, you SHOULD! --> http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/commerce?view=discussions

[09:48] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): maybe get a list of interested people and choose from that. I'm sure the list would long enough

[09:48] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): you should od it randomly from ppl who put there names forward brooke each timechoosing different ppl this way you will get a true cross section of ppl with an interest

[09:48] 愛 (ai.velde): @Qwik, yea, like jury duty. <_<

[09:48] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): (flog is my WSJ)

[09:48] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Pleae don't have disabled comments, that's just wrong. Blog posts rather than discussion posts, yes, but there must always be a way for people to comment or it becomes very one-sided

[09:48] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Agreed with Qwik

[09:48] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): yes; skins. There's a disconnect in the way skins are being rated on the SLM, that also refers to the product being provided in-world, and the way skins are rated in the in-world Maturity settings

[09:49] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): it was good to see the email announcment...for those who got it

[09:49] Veralis Basevi (veralis.basevi): i tried getting into merchant roundtable 2 years ago still waitin lol

[09:49] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): no ai you dont have to put your name forward for jury duty

[09:49] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): Qwik they should nothing ur idea is not a must show respect , we call it may not should

[09:49] 愛 (ai.velde): Send a new request, Veralis.

[09:49] Sassy (sassy.romano): nope unless the sample is large enough, random does NOT guarantee to engage with the stakeholders.. back to that basic project management concept again... stakeholders

[09:49] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): (Pauline, the discussion would be enabled in the forum section, earlier on, to define the agenda. Then the agenda posted on the Blog, that's my suggestion)

[09:49] dana Archer (dana.archer): yes skins without bits for teens has been confusing

[09:49] 愛 (ai.velde): Joke, haha, funny, etc.

[09:49] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so i am not the one who rates them in world

[09:49] Magnet Homewood (magnet.homewood): Could there be a survey sent to all merchants, with one question 'are you interested in helping in the focus groups - yes/no' and all the 'yeses' are added to the database for random selection

[09:49] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): yes, skins, please. we spent almost an hour in group, trying to figure out exactly what the MP ratings mean for inworld merchants

[09:49] 愛 (ai.velde): I'm teasing, Qwik. lol

[09:49] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): It took me just one quick Live Chat to get into the roundtable

[09:49] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): there is no way to get in no options for roundtable what do u post it under its another funny business there hand picked?

[09:49] 愛 (ai.velde): That's an excellent idea, Magnet.

[09:50] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Referendums get ignored when the outcome doesn't suit m i bet.. sorry but it happened in the past too

[09:50] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Oh, correction, one quick ticket under Marketplace, to get in, started as Live Chat, but got directed to tickets, got it within 24 hours

[09:50] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): on the marketplace, the legal team came up with the ratings guidelines on skins

[09:50] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): I lost the group chat log when I crashed; maybe someone can send it to Brooke for later, too, if they still have it. There are links there to the confusing sections on the listing guidelnes

[09:50] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i can provide feedback from this chat

[09:50] landland Ansar (landland.ansar): anyway brooke thank you and looking forward that the billing issue is fixed im out of here

[09:50] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Thought so!! It's those damn lawyers! LOL

[09:50] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): so shouldnt one of those be here to naswer our questions too?

[09:51] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): did they come up with keyword bans too?

[09:51] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): the legal team? ROFLMAO

[09:51] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): so teens are permitted bits and pieces? and as such anatomical skins ARE permitted on PG sims for sale so long as they are censored?

[09:51] 2WAT Michigan (2wat.michigan): i think shapes are having the same issues as skins too

[09:51] XOPH (xoph.adamczyk): Children are buying adult products by going through google search and then adding them to their carts.

[09:51] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): i missed the snawer to lov's question

[09:51] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): answer

[09:51] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Brooke, the issue is the definitions are inconsistant between in world and SLM, and the SLM guidelines now refer to the product that's being sold in world as well

[09:51] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i can only comment on marketplace

[09:51] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): the images are censored*

[09:51] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): o

[09:51] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): so they can tell the difference legally between mature for 18+ and adult for 18+, legally?

[09:51] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes, there is awareness of the inconsistencies

[09:51] 愛 (ai.velde): That makes my brain melt.

[09:52] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): same issue stands for the marketplace i guess..can a teen buy a skin with no underwear or no?

[09:52] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): awareness yes but interest to fix is lacking

[09:52] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lol

[09:52] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i understand there is some thought going on in this area

[09:52] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): ok

[09:52] Archetypus Deed (archetypus.deed): Brooke, I think your legal team needs to mae sure that in-world maturity and MP maturity match

[09:52] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but i can't comment on when changes will start to occur

[09:53] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): so skins have to show nothing of the private parts then,?

[09:53] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): for to be seen?

[09:53] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Wow .. that was a very tender way to say that. Are you getting a LOT of heat from above on this Maturity Rating problems?

[09:53] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): think ken and barbie

[09:53] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): male skins have none to begin with

[09:53] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): is there an intent to homogenize these discrepencies? like nudity is permitted on mature sims but SLM implies items are adult if they reveal nudity inworld (ie a bikini with a nipple showing is mature inworld but adult per MP guidelines)

[09:53] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): lol!! ;0

[09:53] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): A la Blue Mars it seems

[09:53] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): One thing to ask the legal team about, Brooke, is the issue of when you have taken "editorial control" and thereby lose the protection of just being a hosting/comms provider. They should look up the precident set in the dual action in US court against Prodigy and Compuserve in the 1980s over adult content on USENET. Prodigy lost due to having attempted to filter (being deemed to have accepted editorial control) and failed. Compuserve won by making very little attempt to control it, just basing it on self-rating by end users and reacting to any complaints received. If the same precident was to be applied in legal action over SLM, the filter could actually increase LL's liability.

[09:53] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): the goal is to make them more consistent, as it makes sense

[09:54] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): but brooke male nipples are fine to be shown and females arent yet ken has none like barbie

[09:54] Sweet Valentine (sweet.valentine): we really needs some definitive answers on these issues

[09:54] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): still confusing

[09:54] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): great!

[09:54] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): brilliant

[09:54] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): but inworld, you can sell bits and pieces if the images are covered?

[09:54] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): ...in a PG sim

[09:54] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): r and nc-17 then

[09:54] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): What the lawyers say, goes

[09:55] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will let the people who are working on this know of the concerns from here

[09:55] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): or is it 18 lol

[09:55] 愛 (ai.velde): Thank you, Brooke.

[09:55] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): ty brooke

[09:55] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so they can take them as input for consistency

[09:55] dana Archer (dana.archer): yeah but lawyers argue in courts

[09:55] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): Thanks, Brooke. there are some merchants really worried they'll have to up to mature sims just to keep their skins for sale as is

[09:55] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): can i at least mention one good thing?

[09:55] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): please

[09:55] Argus Collingwood (argus.collingwood): yes

[09:55] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): PLEASE!

[09:55] Archetypus Deed (archetypus.deed): please do

[09:55] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): go for it!

[09:55] Argus Collingwood (argus.collingwood): lol

[09:55] Sassy (sassy.romano): it's your birthday?

[09:55] 2WAT Michigan (2wat.michigan): yes

[09:55] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): And ruin the mood? LOL (ducks)

[09:55] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): fixes for gifting are coming out next week!

[09:55] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): good for you or us?

[09:56] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): WOOT!!

[09:56] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): yay!

[09:56] 2WAT Michigan (2wat.michigan): YAY!

[09:56] Sharayah (sharayah.munro): yeah

[09:56] Archetypus Deed (archetypus.deed): awesome!

[09:56] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Awesome ^^

[09:56] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): yay! what are the fixes?

[09:56] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): what kind of fixes?

[09:56] Meta Linden (meta.linden): Yay!

[09:56] Magnet Homewood (magnet.homewood): bah, i hate it when things get fixed

[09:56] Vila (vilandra.miles): apparently there's a bug right now on Marketplace. you can't upload pictures? (sorry to interrupt, but someone's yelling in my ear about that)

[09:56] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): great! i know lots of people confused about gifting

[09:56] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): and valentines on the way! ;)

[09:56] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): people will be able to gift new residents immediately

[09:56] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): ;0 lol that needed fixed too?

[09:56] Constanza Amsterdam (constanza.amsterdam): its tested Tho i hope Brooke? LOL

[09:56] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): awesome

[09:56] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we're starting testing today

[09:56] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): Oh thats good Brooke.

[09:56] VonGklugelstein Alter (vongklugelstein.alter): while fixing things.. finish the Category lists and install sorting buttons on the reports please

[09:56] Mocksoup Graves (mocksoup.graves): yay!

[09:56] Sassy (sassy.romano): OH... can an adult gift an adult item to a teen?

[09:56] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): I couldn't gift a 4yr old resident

[09:56] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): or it sends to the giver and not the recipient. I had a friend with that issue. he got stuck with a rather nice no trans ballgown he'll never wear

[09:56] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Hooray for pre-testing.

[09:56] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): <--- volunteers to be a gift recipient for all testers.

[09:56] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and there is now an "add to cart as gift" button on the listing page

[09:57] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): oh now that is good

[09:57] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): now if my flowers werent marked adult i guess peopel could gift roses for valenties heh

[09:57] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Excellent news Brooke.

[09:57] Sassy (sassy.romano): Can an adult gift an adult item to a teen?

[09:57] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lol shhh sassy dont point out the loopholes or it will raise all hell again

[09:57] Troy Vogel (troy.vogel): yeah gift me pls too even tho it's been 6 years or more... never bad to do regression testing

[09:57] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Now THAT is awesome.

[09:57] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): I still haven't heard what the fix is.

[09:57] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Add to cart as gift is really coolios.

[09:57] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): to stop ppl gifting to noobs

[09:57] Argus Collingwood (argus.collingwood): gifting button

[09:57] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): except the carts fail lol

[09:57] Vila (vilandra.miles): [09:56] Brooke Linden: and there is now an "add to cart as gift" button on the listing page >>> as in right now? can't see it

[09:58] Sassy (sassy.romano): Brooke, that's a serious question that came up... CAN AN ADULT GIFT ADULT ITEMS TO A TEEN?

[09:58] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): sorry, on our test servers :)

[09:58] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): I hope testing goes well

[09:58] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): there *will* be next week

[09:58] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): any moe word on freebies? i noticed since the change from xstreet to marketplace i actually shift a LOT more freebies

[09:58] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Excellent news

[09:58] XOPH (xoph.adamczyk) whispers: YAY FREEBIES!

[09:58] Veralis Basevi (veralis.basevi): LMAO Sassy i dont think we heard ya :P

[09:58] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): lol are these the same test severs all the other so called improvments have been tested?

[09:58] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): cause it measures relevance based on past sales, Yoshi... and what sells more than freebies?

[09:58] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): brooke will you be able to gift the same item to multiple people now or will it still send them all to the same person?

[09:58] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): sigh

[09:58] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): lol yi, next round maybe sassy! ;0

[09:58] Sassy (sassy.romano): Seems they don't know?

[09:59] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): yes what of the ruling of an additional fee on products 99L and under that was supposed to happen some time ago?

[09:59] Juliette Pashinin (juliette.pashinin): lol Sassy

[09:59] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): don't know what/

[09:59] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde) pats Brooke.

[09:59] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): becasue it was a Promo tactic?

[09:59] 愛 (ai.velde): Oh, Brooke, all of that sounds divine, but what about test deliveries for merchants? Is this EVER going to happen? It's an essential tool for merchants. I've been begging for this forever! lol

[09:59] Sassy (sassy.romano): can an adult gift an adult item to a teen?

[09:59] Sassy (sassy.romano): I asked it 3 times

[09:59] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): 4 sassy

[09:59] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): there should be no such thing as an adult item, only adult usage of an item

[09:59] Vila (vilandra.miles): and yes, if someone wants to send a gift to someone SL for some weird reason doesn't know (funny in itself ;) ) it would be nice the engine would say so and not only mention it when you hit the "Update Quantities" button. I'm really tired of those crying and complaining customers because i'm the one having to send out the items twice or to get the yelling if I decline.

[09:59] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, you did see the list of features requests

[09:59] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Noooo, the listing fee was scrapped for good reason, there are many freebies which are done not as promo for anything, just someone being philanthropic

[09:59] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): :0 look, filtering could go so deep - down to inworld inventory, adding it like permissions... there's always that next 'well what about' ;0

[09:59] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): Ai, I've been told we can test deliver from the "preview" page... not sure if it's true

[09:59] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): for all kinds of lefal reasons i would hope not sassy

[09:59] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we need to get these mapped to jiras so you all can vote and that can drive our priorities for fixes

[10:00] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): right....but jira isnt always the friendliest option for merchants

[10:00] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Jira's stay unassigned

[10:00] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll have to look into that clarity

[10:00] Sassy (sassy.romano): likewise Cummere but nobody seems to know the answer, you'd have thought it would have been answered here ... now

[10:00] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): which is why office hours like this are important

[10:00] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): I see. But there are many prmoo tactics that are over running marketplace

[10:00] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): once again we feel we must mention that

[10:00] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): *Promo

[10:00] Nico Bascom (nico.bascom): who opened this can of worms by letting under age people in to the main gride. what did He expect of child preditors

[10:00] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): doesn't need to be assigned if a Linden starts it. ;)

[10:00] 愛 (ai.velde): Huh, that's convoluted. I see that "free test deliveries" is on the list. This is desperately needed. lol.

[10:00] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): Aw that sounds cool then loving ;)

[10:00] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, it's 10am

[10:00] Vila (vilandra.miles): actually. Jira voting numbers are not representative for relevance, but for the quality of marketing of the person starting the jira or liking it

[10:00] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): is "child" a flagged word?

[10:00] Veralis Basevi (veralis.basevi): shoot vixen thought u meant porno tactics :P

[10:00] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and i'm due at another meeting

[10:00] Cummere Mayo (cummere.mayo): brooke will the fixes for gifting include not having all the copies of an item you try to gift go to the same person instead of to the spread of people?

[10:00] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): many of these are on the Jira list, fyi

[10:01] Vixn Dagger (vixn.dagger): LOL

[10:01] Sharayah (sharayah.munro): thanks Brooke for your time, I know it was a struggle

[10:01] Sassy (sassy.romano): 5th time before you leave, can an adult gift an adult item to a teen YES OR NO?

[10:01] 愛 (ai.velde): D8

[10:01] Sonya Haight (sonya.haight): you learned that line from Jack?

[10:01] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): ty brooke =)

[10:01] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Teens have been all over way before any of this began.

[10:01] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): oh, missed that

[10:01] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): thanks Brooke, was nice to put an avatar to a name

[10:01] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): thanks brooke & the commerce team, its good to hear some communication from you guys

[10:01] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): an adult should not be able to gift an adult item to a teen

[10:01] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): hopefully Brooke will read your question later Sassy and blog for you

[10:01] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): ....*laughs...quietly*

[10:01] Darrius Gothly (darrius.gothly): Thank you for your time Brooke. Progress made .. even if not as much as desired / needed. But it was progress.

[10:01] StUdLeY Dexing (studley.dexing): loool

[10:01] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): we understand that

[10:01] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): hope it keeps coming :)

[10:01] Sassy (sassy.romano): should not or CAN NOT?

[10:01] Amon Dragonash (amon.dragonash): but can they

[10:01] Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury): Thanks, Brooke

[10:01] Magnet Homewood (magnet.homewood): can we have a group photo before we all go? we can slap it on the home page and scare off the teenagers, with a note 'these bozos here do the selling' lol

[10:01] Vila (vilandra.miles): should is pretty vague...

[10:02] Meta Linden (meta.linden): Thanks to everyone for helping keep the conversation productive too. Greatly appreciated.

[10:02] XOPH (xoph.adamczyk): It's past 10 am now... LESS TALKING MORE DANCING

[10:02] Archetypus Deed (archetypus.deed): Well thak you Brooke and othe rLindens for being here and I have to say, I do NOT envy your jobs at all. Take care and see you later on.

[10:02] Rachel Darling (rachel.darling): Thank you for the meeting, Brooke; I agree, the communication is refreshing, and I'm sure we will get better at it as well as time goes on. But it's a good start, and very encouraging

[10:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): got to go

[10:02] 2WAT Michigan (2wat.michigan): thanks Brooke

[10:02] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): bye Brooke

[10:02] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): I don't see why not. the filter only blocks the content. not the user themselves. I'm guessing it's a hole in the system... at least it wouldn't surprise me

[10:02] Sassy (sassy.romano): fail to answer

[10:02] 愛 (ai.velde): Bye, Brooke. Thank you for your time.

[10:02] Tarina Sewell (tarina.sewell): thank you

[10:02] Nyoko Salome (nyoko.salome): :) lol worked through it!! ;) thanks much brooke!

[10:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): bye

[10:02] LФVIИG (loving.clarity): thanks to all the Lindens!

[10:02] Yoshi Zhangsun (yoshi.zhangsun): best of luck for the next update...

[10:02] Jonno Stromfield (jonno.stromfield): thanks for coming brooke and other lindens

[10:02] Lenárt de Lacroix (leni.velde): Byeness~

[10:02] Ashasekayi Ra of Candybytes (ashasekayi.ra): Bye Brooke

[10:02] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): when will the next meeting be?

[10:02] Vila (vilandra.miles): not the only one @ Loving ;)

[10:02] 愛 (ai.velde): Well, this was exciting.

[10:02] Sonya Haight (sonya.haight): thanks Brooke

[10:02] Juliette Pashinin (juliette.pashinin): Thank you for the OH this week.

[10:02] Qwik Skytower (qwik.skytower): tc peeps

[10:02] Telle Trezuguet (telle.trezuguet): *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*Thank You!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*

[10:02] Vextra Messing (vextra.messing): ty Brooke