User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-05

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[11:02] Jack Linden: helllooo!

[11:02] xstorm Radek: hi jack

[11:02] Jean Swashbuckler: been watching that Mari..good progress

[11:02] Charity Colville: Hello Jack...nice to see you

[11:02] Jean Swashbuckler: hi Jack

[11:03] Jack Linden waits for chairs to appear

[11:03] Jack Linden: ha stephan, great little avatar

[11:03] Dilbert Dilweg: Hello Equinox :)

[11:03] Equinox Pinion: hi dilbert :)

[11:03] Drongle McMahon waits for Jack to appear

[11:03] Charity Colville: Hiya Equinox

[11:03] Stephan Mrigesh: Thanks Jack

[11:04] Equinox Pinion: Hi charity!

[11:04] Jack Linden: ahh nice to see the purple dragon back in place. someone stole it last week

[11:04] Jack Linden: anyways, how are we all today?

[11:04] Dilbert Dilweg: Gret Jack!

[11:04] Marianne McCann: Good, good.

[11:05] Charity Colville: Doing great Jack but lots to discuss

[11:05] Jack Linden: do you want to kick us off then Charity?

[11:05] Charity Colville: Sure

[11:05] Stephan Mrigesh: Fantastic Thanks Jack, I was thinking on buying up all the land in SL, and renting it out to you folk, so just here to get the land vibe of the week;)

[11:05] Charity Colville: We have been experiencing serious performance issues on our sim that we have been trying hard to fix

[11:06] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:06] Jack Linden: a modest plan Stephan, I like your thinking!

[11:06] Stephan Mrigesh: lol

[11:06] Jack Linden: sounds frustrating Charity.. have you been talking to Concierge about it?

[11:06] Dennis Lagan: a restart makes you often switch to a different server, so if it still continues after that its mostly the content.

[11:07] Charity Colville: yes we have and we have had little help, we restart daily

[11:07] Jack Linden: Dennis is right, though we do have the odd simulator bug that creeps in but generally we become aware of those very quickly

[11:07] Charity Colville: However I am told performance issues are not really the topic today

[11:07] Qie Niangao: Charity, is it constant lag, or does it come and go?

[11:07] xstorm Radek: your not getting attacks from any griefers are you

[11:07] Jack Linden: it can be tough working through all the content to find the culprit.

[11:08] Drongle McMahon: FJ mentions this problem in his blog today

[11:08] Talarus Luan: .let alone the phantom objects, prims, etc.

[11:08] Talarus Luan: scripts

[11:08] Jack Linden: Well charity, anything land or support related is fair game here, but for individual support issues it's difficult to work through those in a group meeting

[11:08] Dytska Vieria: There is a ghost script bug

[11:08] xstorm Radek: there has been sim pirates starting to live up around 4000 in some sims and renting out homes on other peoples sims

[11:08] Ciaran Laval: phantom scripts look like a nightmare

[11:08] Charity Colville: it comes and goes and we have visited other sims with similar traffic and active scripts and they dont have the same fps issues

[11:09] Jack Linden: pirates? that's a new one to me.

[11:09] Brie Janick: yes

[11:09] Drongle McMahon: Jack. I hope you received a notecard from Rem Nightfire detailing ongoing land cutting that he has observed. We encountered one new person cutting 40 16sqm plots who did not speak English and had apparently not seen your blog announcement. Perhaps the message needs to be broadcast more effectively.

[11:09] Seany1235 Blinker: yes had themat our sim

[11:09] Talarus Luan: fps issues? is it sim lag, or client lag?

[11:09] Jack Linden: Charity, do you have anything that is set Physical?

[11:09] xstorm Radek: yes we have been finding them jack

[11:09] Driftwood Miles: they found oil a bit dangerous

[11:09] Brie Janick: we found someone rezzed 3000prims 4000sq mt in the air

[11:09] Brie Janick: like a small town

[11:09] Charity Colville: sim lag

[11:09] Jack Linden: Drongle, yes I did.. and the governance folk are on it

[11:09] Dennis Lagan: just one physical object that went nuts can take the whole sim unusable, we had it once with a boat.

[11:09] Charity Colville: I am not sure if we do Jack

[11:10] Equinox Pinion: you find people like that all the time brie :)

[11:10] xstorm Radek: the odd thing is they found a way to mask there city in the sky from us

[11:10] Jack Linden: these pirates, is it just that the land settings are wrong and so they can do stuff on the land that they shouldn't?

[11:10] Charity Colville: hmmmm I will have to check that....Dilbert may know that

[11:10] Dilbert Dilweg: What kind of Boat Dennis?

[11:10] Ciaran Laval: Charity go the slow way and write down your stats somewhere using the statistics bar to find them

[11:10] Charity Colville: we monitor our stats all day

[11:10] Dennis Lagan: think it was a tako or trudeau, nothing special

[11:10] xstorm Radek: the sim settings look right but some how they can rez and not be seen

[11:11] Equinox Pinion: or a helicopter can to that too

[11:11] Seany1235 Blinker: the prims did not even show they where up there

[11:11] Jack Linden: Charity.. even a single physical object like a football stuck under a pathway can relly hit performance because the simulator is constantly doing physics calcs on that object

[11:11] Equinox Pinion: but you see that in the top scripts

[11:11] xstorm Radek: it was reading like 1 prim

[11:11] Charity Colville: we will search the sim then

[11:11] Talarus Luan: A lot of that can be discovered in the Estate Tools

[11:11] Talarus Luan: Top Colliders, Top Scripts, etc

[11:11] Equinox Pinion: just check the top scripts when you have a problem again charity

[11:12] Dytska Vieria: This is the ghost script jira: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3867

[11:12] Khamon Fate: check top colliders

[11:12] Jack Linden: thanks dytska

[11:12] Khamon Fate: for physical objects

[11:12] Qie Niangao: Concierge should be able to at least narrow the search... possibly a Forums post would get some folks in to take a look, or generate other suggestions for tracking down the problem.

[11:12] Drongle McMahon: When will we have access tp top scripts on the mailand?

[11:12] Charity Colville: We do that all the time and since it is a dance venue those are usually tops....our fps can bottom out and hold there for many minutes

[11:12] Khamon Fate: You won't Drongle, that invades the privacy of others

[11:12] Jack Linden: you could also turn off scripts on the whole region to see if that makes a difference

[11:12] Ciaran Laval: When you pay 0% more tier :p

[11:12] Ciaran Laval: 50% even

[11:13] Drongle McMahon: Well...at least on my own parcels?

[11:13] Khamon Fate: 0% ha ha ha

[11:13] Charity Colville: we have had concierge on it and they said lower the avatar count and active scripts....we do that but still have worse performance than sims running more

[11:13] Jack Linden: Drongle, i agree that would be useful but our thinking is that as we move slowly towards script limits we will put better tools into the viewer for everyone

[11:13] Talarus Luan: Yeah, parcel-based estate tools would be a blessing

[11:13] Khamon Fate: You won't Drongle, parcels aren't really physical parcels, you won't ever be able to ground texture a parcel either.

[11:13] Dilbert Dilweg: Welcome to Sweethearts!!!

[11:13] Dilbert Dilweg: I have dealt with the ghost script thing but it seems to me scripts just are not going away when users leave. with users we had 2000 active scripts. then with 20 users we had 5000 active scripts.. the number will increase rapidly as users come in but i think as they leave it takes for ever for their scripts to become inactive. but with only 10 users and that many scripts users have attached to them?

[11:14] Marianne McCann: I know we recently had a sim in Bay City - Falconmoon that was having issues understanding mono scripts. Was a nightmare of serious server lag and regular crashes.

[11:14] Talarus Luan: No, but you CAN sort stuff by X,Y location

[11:14] Drongle McMahon: I don't see why not.

[11:14] Talarus Luan: llOverMyLand filtering

[11:14] xstorm Radek: Jack why can we not start asking people to start converting the LSL scripts over to Mono now ?

[11:14] Khamon Fate: There is no logical reason Drongle; it just isn't TAO.

[11:14] Jack Linden: some of the animation overrides have a lot of scripts in them

[11:14] Drongle McMahon: What's a TAO?

[11:14] Ciaran Laval: Mono has its issues, there was Jira entry about Mono problems

[11:14] Talarus Luan: The Tao of Linden. :P

[11:15] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:15] Jack Linden: yeah Marianne.. they are still working on that one. was a very subtle problem

[11:15] Charity Colville: That many be our problem too....we have most of our scripts running on mono

[11:15] Drongle McMahon: That is a completely irrational answer. Still, maybe that's the point?

[11:15] Jack Linden: xstorm.. good question. i'm not sure what the transition plan is there

[11:16] Jack Linden: but there is a huge amount of LSL stuff out there, it owuld be tough to enforce anything

[11:16] Drongle McMahon: How can we be expected to guard against over use of resource if we are not given the tools to detect it?

[11:16] Talarus Luan: Doubtful that the LSL VM is going to be going away for a long time.

[11:16] Dilbert Dilweg: Thats my question also Drongle

[11:16] Dennis Lagan: since mono came after LSL, you should think that seen over all the scripts on your SIM as a total, it should be a general improvement.

[11:16] Dilbert Dilweg: too :)

[11:17] Jack Linden: if you mean the script limits stuff Drongle, we absolutely will provide script load tools well ahead of any actual enforcement

[11:17] Talarus Luan: Mono is not significantly faster or more sim-lag-free than LSL, overall.

[11:17] Charity Colville: It would be nice if we as estate owners had the ability to "unclog" our sims....like clearing pending downloads that get stuck

[11:17] Drongle McMahon: But I mean Mainland, jack.

[11:17] xstorm Radek: the beta test server is up and running i know some may wish to test it there for LSL to mono convert

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Well, if you see lots of pending downloads, that's usually indicative of asset server load/failure

[11:18] Jack Linden: the same applies there. we might not let you see your neighbours information but we can certainly show your own

[11:18] Qie Niangao: that's very good news, Jack!

[11:18] Equinox Pinion: but how will you see then if your neighbour is the problem is the sim is laggy

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Yup. The sooner, the better

[11:19] Talarus Luan: Well, if it isn't you, then you can ask the Mainland Estate Manager (aka LL) for assistance in dealing with it. :)

[11:19] Drongle McMahon: Sounds good

[11:19] Jack Linden: it's going to be very interesting because with a mixed ownership region like mainland, if we do bring in script limits as we'd like to, then heavy abusers of resource will not be able to bring the whole region down any more

[11:19] xstorm Radek: Beacons and sim lag readings

[11:19] xstorm Radek: there is a number of programs that can read lag from scripts

[11:19] Jack Linden: it would be somewhat like prims and how they are allocated

[11:19] Ciaran Laval: That sounds dangerous

[11:20] Khamon Fate: what a brilliant idea

[11:20] Jack Linden: why ciaran?

[11:20] Dytska Vieria: We need additional LSL functions to read performance of a sim...

[11:20] Ciaran Laval: Scripts need to be dynamic

[11:20] Equinox Pinion: jack...do you plan to make a limit on the number of scripts...or running time

[11:20] Ciaran Laval: Some scripts use a lot of resources to fire up then do bugger all for ages

[11:20] Dilbert Dilweg: Problem is Sim owners have no way of telling if a user teleported into the region with 10000 active scripts. Is there a limit to how many scripts a user can run on his/her avatar?

[11:20] Equinox Pinion: as one script can take as much as 100

[11:20] Khamon Fate: running time of course

[11:20] Jack Linden: oh they will be, but, if you own half a region isn't it reasonable that you can run more scripts than owning 16m?

[11:20] Drongle McMahon: I dangerous ... could be, depends on whether it's avaraged over time. Many scripts run very seldom and should not be penalised.

[11:21] Jack Linden: attachments will probably be handled differently.. this is all still being thrashed out. so nothing is set instone at this point

[11:21] xstorm Radek: you can setup scripts to run only when people need them or around them

[11:21] Jack Linden: and we'll talk lots more about it over the next few months

[11:21] Equinox Pinion: but a 16sm owner can still use more running time with one script he has on it :)

[11:21] xstorm Radek: this helps cut down on running scripts

[11:21] Ciaran Laval: But if it's limited xstorm, it won't run at all, then content creators get it in the ear

[11:21] Dytska Vieria: (and speaking of 16's)

[11:21] Khamon Fate: On that point, limiting prims doesn't do much for resource management in the long run as they can be twisted and overly textured to cause massive client side lag anyway

[11:21] Talarus Luan: Well, I would expect that it would be implemented as a load-balancing thing. The more land you own in a sim, the more time your scripts get as a percentage

[11:21] Jack Linden: it wouldn't be on number of scripts, that wouldn't help. one script can be far more load than 100

[11:21] Dennis Lagan: i think limiting the amount of scripts is wrong, script time trottle per parcel sounds more logic

[11:21] xstorm Radek: limit it to runing scripts

[11:22] Jack Linden: it's more likely to be on script memory or something like that

[11:22] xstorm Radek: scripts do not need to run all the time

[11:22] Jack Linden: Talarus.. yes, something along those lines

[11:22] Qie Niangao: need to be careful about the tradeoff between accuracy of the limit and the cost of assessing the scripts.

[11:23] xstorm Radek: some scripts can be link to one main script server in a prim and called on too

[11:23] Khamon Fate: True Qie, especially since it's a tech implementation meant to solve a social problem.

[11:23] Jack Linden: we've been collecting a huge amount of script load data since New Years, which we'll be sharing with the community soon.

[11:23] Alexxa Despres: Jack ..for clarification....you are speaking of MAINLAND only regarding script limits.....or ALL land?

[11:23] Khamon Fate: It'd be silly to overload the system with controls.

[11:24] Dennis Lagan: as far as i understand from some rumours, the homestead and openspace script limits were just a teaser, its sounds like script limits will follow for all products

[11:24] xstorm Radek: the better people can learn to use scripts the better the sim will run

[11:24] Jack Linden: Alexxa, it would more than likely be an all regions as mainland and estates still share hardware. But the limits will be there to curb the very highest end load not to dramatically affect the majority of users

[11:24] Ciaran Laval: They did say script limits will be for all land in a previous blog

[11:25] Alexxa Despres: TY , jack ;)

[11:25] Jack Linden: that's why we're measuring script load, to get the right information to make those kinds of decisions

[11:25] Khamon Fate: Speaking of Homesteads Jack, have y'all further discussed running them 2:1 or is that a dead horse?

[11:25] Equinox Pinion: you mean 3:1 as 2:1 would cost them money

[11:25] Jack Linden: Dennis.. not decided yet but it's likely we'd start with Openspaces, thenHomesteads and then Full Regions. Not all atonce

[11:26] Dennis Lagan: kk

[11:26] Drongle McMahon: Speaking of scripts, who is that fish?

[11:26] Dytska Vieria: Currently, I think llGetRegionTimeDilation() is the only function that gets any info on sim load, need others such as llGetScriptTime

[11:26] Khamon Fate: "curb the very highest end load" That's a sensible approach as there's probably a very wide gap between the few abusers and the bulk of the populations

[11:26] Jack Linden: that horse is very much alive khamon, and yes we are looking at changing the cpu ratio for Homesteads. we're assessing the cost etc at the moment

[11:26] Khamon Fate: Thank You

[11:27] Driftwood Miles: cough

[11:27] xstorm Radek: yes the horse gets food and water

[11:27] xstorm Radek: ;-)

[11:27] Alexxa Despres: LOL

[11:27] Qie Niangao: so, on the subject of "old business"... any update on the Traffic-abuse thing?

[11:27] Khamon Fate: horses, now there's some major lag

[11:28] Jack Linden: Qie.. we're going to start that thread soon but we've held off a little because we'd like to include some data on bots

[11:28] Jack Linden: But soon

[11:28] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.

[11:28] Talarus Luan: Back on the subject of landcutting.. it has been a few weeks now since the policy was announced. What is our "next step"? Do we now start volume ARing the ones who are basically flipping their noses at the policy?

[11:28] Charity Colville: I am not sure what the purpose was of eliminating popular places without removing traffic....bots are still alive and well

[11:28] xstorm Radek: im glad the Bot data will be added

[11:28] Drongle McMahon: Are you collecting the data on bots with bots? Can they be trusted?

[11:28] Talarus Luan: We've been notecarding quite a few instances of abuse.

[11:29] Jack Linden: No need at this point Talarus, we can see who is cutting and we're talking to the big micro-parcel owners about managing their count down and addressing some of the huge prices etc.

[11:29] Ciaran Laval: Have you got any data that much ahs changed Jack?

[11:30] Drongle McMahon: It is frustrating for those of us who are actively working to rejoin microplots to see that cutting continues. It is also frustrating to see so many unjoined Govenor Linden microplots, often with banlines and/or prim litter.

[11:30] Qie Niangao is eager for a certain Austin H to start "managing down"

[11:30] Equinox Pinion: how many 16sm parcel were there before and how many are there now

[11:30] Talarus Luan: OK, so how long should we wait to have specific groups of plots addressed?

[11:30] Dilbert Dilweg: Glad to hear you all still moving foreward on the bots and traffic isses Jack thanks for answering that

[11:30] xstorm Radek: i have started to see Bots that can make other bots i think i only seen one so far like this

[11:30] Melodie Darwin: Arbor has given away about 10,000m of land to neighbors, but there is alot mixed into abandoned land also

[11:30] Jack Linden: There's been a small drop in the number of 16m parcels for sale, and a fairly big drop (about 10%) in the total L$ cost of the parcels set for sale

[11:31] Drongle McMahon: I hope you are watching 32s as well?

[11:31] xstorm Radek: thats good

[11:31] Jack Linden: Yes we watch all the different parcel sizes.

[11:31] Talarus Luan: Aye, that's 10,000sqm over 400 plots given away to adjacent landowners. Quite a bit in the last few weeks. :)

[11:31] Ciaran Laval: The Capitalist Pigs have dropped their prices but I haven't noticed much change with the others

[11:31] Dilbert Dilweg: lol

[11:31] Drongle McMahon: Dropped their land level too!

[11:31] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:32] Jack Linden: I think it's one of those situations where it'll be quiet for a while and then change quite rapidly as people realise that this busines model justisn't going to work anymore

[11:32] xstorm Radek: well i did remember some people did like high land

[11:33] Talarus Luan: Well, don't hold your breath on that one. As long as the land is cut up, placed where it is, and for sale at extortion prices, they will be quite happy to continue scamming.

[11:33] Jack Linden: I expect i've mentioned this before.. but the ability to toggle Ban Line visibility is coming into the Viewer soon

[11:33] xstorm Radek: at one time the land people did use building up the land around people to get people to move out of a sim then take over the land at a low price

[11:33] Jack Linden: Which is one of those small changes that a lot of people asked for

[11:33] Ciaran Laval: Oh really? Never heard that before Jack

[11:34] Equinox Pinion: when when jack??

[11:34] Qie Niangao: For focusing attention, a failing business model is one thing, the barrel of a Smith and Wesson quite another

[11:34] Jack Linden: I'm hoping for 1.23. but certainly soon

[11:34] Ciaran Laval: Cool, now a toggle to allow estate owners to see banlines would be handy too

[11:34] Alexxa Despres: Agrred Ciaran!

[11:34] Equinox Pinion: that is really good news!

[11:34] Alexxa Despres: agreed*

[11:34] Charlene Trudeau: yeah, then I could dump my spare alt I have to use to fly the estates

[11:35] Jack Linden: are there other small changes that you guys can think of that would make a big difference?

[11:35] Ciaran Laval: I don't know they are there unless I pop in with an alt or someone complains!

[11:35] xstorm Radek: it will help matters if every one had that option in view to see banlines on a map

[11:35] Dennis Lagan: oh, good to hear about banlines... isn't their a possibility in making the messages different? for example a blue pop up menu, orbs have that as well.. not that i'm a fan of orbs. the visibility on bans from a distance is rather short anyway, so you hardly have time to stop when flying.

[11:35] MappaLandScout whispers: gathering parcel info at Linden Estate Services<148.18666, 110.01878, 38.47495>...

[11:36] Dennis Lagan: agrees with xstorm

[11:36] MappaLandScout whispers: searching database...

[11:36] Ciaran Laval: Maybe Dennis with the toggle they can go back to making banlines more visible again? Didn't they tone them down a bit?

[11:36] Marianne McCann: Dennis - that is often my trouble when flying as well. Those and full parcels.

[11:36] Dennis Lagan: xstorm has a better solution

[11:36] Drongle McMahon: Show banlines(and orbs?) on the minimap.

[11:37] MappaLandScout whispers: search results:

[11:37] MappaLandScout whispers:

[11:37] xstorm Radek: it will help a lot if they did

[11:37] xstorm Radek: may be a menu for the mini map

[11:37] Dennis Lagan: yes

[11:37] Talarus Luan: Just make parcels you don't have physical access to red on the minimap

[11:37] xstorm Radek: yes

[11:37] Marianne McCann: That wouls save serious hassle, Talarus

[11:38] Drongle McMahon: Flying could be fun again.

[11:38] Jack Linden: as a resident i've often thought it would be cool if i could set the texture for how i see banlines. then i could choose to use Trees or something

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Especially for flying in vehicles

[11:38] Ciaran Laval: You can edit the client Jack, or you could

[11:38] Dilbert Dilweg: That would be cool

[11:38] Jack Linden: true, i guess a custom client could maybe do that

[11:39] Dennis Lagan: i think thats inferior to xstorms solution jack.

[11:39] Khamon Fate: You can edit the xml file that contains the banlines texture can't you

[11:39] Ciaran Laval: Someone posted on the forums months ago what line you need to edit

[11:39] Talarus Luan: Don't need a custom client, just replace the texture in the client.

[11:39] Talarus Luan: Argent posted it somewhere

[11:39] xstorm Radek: what if they add the tools for the custom to Advanced so new people will not cry about new buttons

[11:39] Cytherea Eagle: replace it with a transparent one in the client

[11:39] Jack Linden nods

[11:40] Alexxa Despres: Transparency is the 'new' black :-P

[11:40] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[11:40] Jack Linden: hehe

[11:40] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:40] Equinox Pinion: lol

[11:41] Talarus Luan: Anyway. So basically we continue to wait for people like Mr. "Four Corners" to "get it" and cease being a parasite?

[11:41] Marianne McCann: Talarus - adding the ability to see restricted parcels (ban and buy pass maybe?) on the mini map would actually make the mini map useful again, IMO

[11:41] Jack Linden: so what else would be a tiny change that would make a big difference to you?

[11:41] Ciaran Laval: Also a toggle for estate owners on direct teleports would be handy, I spent ages wondering why it wasn't working before someone told me it doesn't work for estate owners

[11:42] Ciaran Laval: I mean setting a parcel landing point doesn't work

[11:42] Cytherea Eagle: I say that LL should stop p@#!y fotting around and pass some regulations to get rid of these nasty cuts and extortion

[11:42] Cytherea Eagle: footing*

[11:42] Jack Linden: ah yes Ciaran. that was 'as designed' but i know it's not always what people want

[11:42] Marianne McCann: I doubt it's a small change, but consistant land textures would be nice. Tired of my brach vanishing on every other login

[11:43] Ciaran Laval: It's handy Jack but I thought the sim was borked!

[11:43] Stephan Mrigesh: Cythera, you are not helping things much by owning these plot's yourself

[11:43] Marianne McCann: beach*

[11:43] Cytherea Eagle: Steph... I work with Arbor now hon

[11:43] Drongle McMahon: A tiny tier restructuring. Make microplots less economic and easier for people to absorb.

[11:43] Talarus Luan: Cytherea has actually been resolving hers recently. :)

[11:43] xstorm Radek: i like to see a way to have a mini map that you can use for buildings above 1000 so you can track down people building that high for estate owners

[11:43] Qie Niangao: That's a good idea, Drongle.

[11:43] Dytska Vieria: Better terrain textures on the old continents would be nice, Jack.

[11:44] Jack Linden: xstorm.. do you mean letting the minimap be constrained to certain height ranges?

[11:44] Seany1235 Blinker: good idea x storm

[11:44] Stephan Mrigesh: So, because you work with the Arbor it is ok to continue the desire for micro plot's?

[11:44] Jack Linden: Dytska, I tried to do that before and a lot of people were unhappy

[11:44] Equinox Pinion: a tiny change that would make our life easier would be not to increase the homesteads in july jack...and you even dont have to change the client for it :)

[11:44] xstorm Radek: oh i like them old faded colors of land on the mainland ;-)

[11:45] Ciaran Laval: lol Equinox

[11:45] Talarus Luan: Stephan, she's been selling/donating her plots as fast as she can.

[11:45] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:45] Dytska Vieria: Just the 20m level - the orange and blue 'coral' is a little bit foo!

[11:45] Jack Linden: I had asked about making the old mainland more green and so on. It was a very strong reaction that people wanted to keep the old ones

[11:45] Cytherea Eagle: Steph obviously you do not get it so IM me after the meeting and I can relieve your mind

[11:45] xstorm Radek: yep :-)

[11:45] xstorm Radek: i like the land color from 2003

[11:46] Charity Colville: Frankly I am just happy my shoes and hair don't end up in my butt when I teleport anymore so GOOD JOB GUYS

[11:46] Talarus Luan: If you have a specific issue with a specific plot of hers, IM her about it, and, likely, you'll be satisfied. :)

[11:46] Jack Linden: is there a kind of land we're missing do you think? should we have Mainland desert areas?

[11:46] Dytska Vieria wants deserts

[11:46] Equinox Pinion: Jungle

[11:46] Drongle McMahon: caves.

[11:46] Jack Linden: haha Charity, i agree. that was such an annoying bug

[11:46] Charity Colville: oh it sucked

[11:47] Charity Colville: and itched

[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[11:47] xstorm Radek: are ther still not some caves left on mainland ?

[11:47] Jack Linden: always a smooth look TPing into a meeting with hair in very much the wrong place

[11:47] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:47] Driftwood Miles: I heard you Ciaran ;) and agreed!!

[11:47] Dytska Vieria: Mountainous deserts would be nice

[11:47] Marianne McCann: Ya, jungles, high desert (mesas, etc.)

[11:47] Jack Linden: caves xstorm?

[11:48] Jack Linden: ooh Mesas would be neat. Have to do them with prims though

[11:48] Drongle McMahon: Good mountais always seem to get ruined.

[11:48] xstorm Radek: there was a number of sim owners that had caves on there sim at one time

[11:48] Ciaran Laval: lol

[11:48] Marianne McCann: True, Drongle. Same issue with forests and jungles

[11:48] Dytska Vieria: horizontal terrain editing...

[11:48] xstorm Radek: oh

[11:48] Drongle McMahon: Complet underworld, with a river Styx to cross to get in.

[11:49] Marianne McCann: Sky cities

[11:49] Driftwood Miles: when using the select land tool in Land Tools jack it would be great if there was some way of seeing square meterage as you drag.

[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Underground could work

[11:49] xstorm Radek: i do not think you can do that under the edit of land as of yet

[11:49] Charlene Trudeau: definitely Driftwood

[11:49] Jack Linden: a sky city is a cool idea. maybe the next dpw city should be raised up with forest underneath

[11:49] Dennis Lagan: is there any chance of having a brush wide slider for the terraforming, like the new force slider? (btw, this slider is not that usefull, a number from 1 to 10 would be more easy to remember what setting you used)

[11:49] Drongle McMahon: ...and a bridge keeper whos ask you your favourite colour.

[11:49] Dilbert Dilweg: would be cool to be able to bore a hole in the side of a mountain

[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Put one in Space

[11:49] Jack Linden: ooh Driftwood, that's an excellent idea

[11:49] Equinox Pinion: good point driftwood!

[11:49] Equinox Pinion: that would be really handy

[11:50] Drongle McMahon: The moon.

[11:50] Jack Linden writes on his pad

[11:50] Marianne McCann: Jack - or worked into the environment somehow. Sort oof a "green" environment

[11:50] Driftwood Miles: not that I am a landd cutter or anything :P

[11:50] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:50] Equinox Pinion: lol

[11:50] xstorm Radek: jack as long as the sky sity is not on another persons sim with out them knowing about it *GIGGLES* :)

[11:50] Marianne McCann giggles

[11:50] Jack Linden: haha xstorm.. yes, lets hide a sky city above ahern.

[11:50] Jack Linden: :)

[11:51] Qie Niangao: actually, about that area readout in terrain editing: the current editor gives you that, but only when you release--and there's no way to add to or remove from the selected area... I'd *really* like that ability.

[11:51] xstorm Radek: that will keep me in a job for the rest of my life in SL

[11:51] Charity Colville: There is another feature to discover...3D parceling to make use of your sky areas

[11:51] Charlene Trudeau: shift-click or something to add subtract area would be fabulous

[11:51] Jack Linden: yes Qie, that's the issue. and being able to edit the bounding selection *before* cut or join would be very useful

[11:51] Talarus Luan: Space, the Final Frontier.

[11:51] xstorm Radek: yes 3D mini maps

[11:52] Charlene Trudeau: especially when trying to join up those microparcels along Linden roads <G>

[11:52] Qie Niangao: exactly, Jack.

[11:52] xstorm Radek: not yet put in to the settings as of yet

[11:52] Jack Linden: interesting. i wonder how hard that would be.

[11:52] Qie Niangao: well, right now, the selected area by dragging is always a rectangle... that's probably a handy simplification.

[11:52] Drongle McMahon: How about some plate tectonice, complete with earthquakes and great trenches and black smokers.

[11:53] Drongle McMahon: *tectonics

[11:53] Jack Linden: i think that because we use selection for Joins too, it was way easier to only have square selection

[11:53] Khamon Fate: It would be really nice on occasion if we could ctrl-select parcels

[11:53] Alexxa Despres: they have that already Drongle....you haven't gotten that upgrade? :-P

[11:53] xstorm Radek: hey do not let people link to the protected linden land it will cut down on all my TOS AR's in a day

[11:53] Stephan Mrigesh: I would really like to see some surprise wether storms Jack, (thought that would be cool;)

[11:53] Ciaran Laval: Head office exists in a quake zone, let them keep it there

[11:53] Drongle McMahon: :-)

[11:53] Alexxa Despres: LOL Ciaran

[11:54] Jack Linden: could be risky khamon.. with Sell and Abandon etc if you could have parcels selected that you weren't aware of.

[11:54] Khamon Fate: it is true

[11:54] Khamon Fate: SRSLY though has there been any talk in the lab of implementing 3D terrain?

[11:54] Driftwood Miles: It would also be awesome if on Buying a sim from someone (full transfer ) you could choose to have the tp registration wiped. Stop people tping to a club or whatever that is no longer there

[11:55] Jack Linden: Khamon, do you mean with concave ability?

[11:55] Driftwood Miles: and bugging the residents

[11:55] Equinox Pinion: drift...just ask for a server key change

[11:55] Khamon Fate: yeyahs

[11:55] Driftwood Miles: really

[11:55] Driftwood Miles: cool Equinox

[11:55] Equinox Pinion: yes

[11:55] Talarus Luan: Yep, a full sim clear will stop it.

[11:55] Jack Linden: probably a huge change but i agree it would be neat to have caves

[11:55] Equinox Pinion: we learned it the hard way too :)

[11:56] Khamon Fate: it would only be a huge change in the sense of substituting the 2D terrain code with 3D terrain code

[11:56] Marianne McCann: Would lead to some interesting inverted hillocks and stuch too, I think

[11:56] xstorm Radek: gee there we go take away all the cave builders jobs ;-)

[11:56] Dilbert Dilweg: Yes it would be Jack

[11:56] Khamon Fate: the current 2D settings will import easily enough and existing content will still work with physics and all

[11:56] Driftwood Miles: LOL yes when you have people landing on someones brand new tropical hideaway and suddenly the sky falls in with loads of people looking for the Catfish Fetish club...it wears a bit thin...so thanks for that :)

[11:56] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[11:57] Equinox Pinion: LOL!!

[11:57] Marianne McCann laughs

[11:57] Dilbert Dilweg: lol

[11:57] Marianne McCann: Jack, before you go (and as an aside) If you happen to hear from Magellan Linden in the next couple, do let him know that Nova Albion is having their fifth anniversary parade on the 21st at 10:00 am SLT, an I'm sure they'd love to see their native son there.

[11:57] Jack Linden: hehe

[11:57] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:57] Khamon Fate: oh yes pics

[11:57] Jack Linden: ooh, thanks Marianne!

[11:57] Marianne McCann: You're welcome!  :-)

[11:57] Jack Linden: i'll strap that message to a pidgeon and maybe he'll get it

[11:57] Equinox Pinion: we bought a CSI sim....was alot of work to tell the people they cannot look for a murder bunny anymore lol

[11:57] Marianne McCann: coolness

[11:58] Jack Linden: ha Equinox

[11:58] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:58] Charity Colville: LOL

[11:58] Jack Linden: but free traffic!

[11:58] Driftwood Miles: omg Equinox thats scary!!

[11:58] Alexxa Despres: lol

[11:58] Driftwood Miles: very true Jack lol

[11:58] Jack Linden: did you sell them murder bunnies?

[11:58] xstorm Radek: are people still looking for him and if so why ? if i was him i be hiding

[11:58] Equinox Pinion: damm...should have done it lol

[11:58] Marianne McCann: When life gives you murder, make murder bunnies

[11:58] Jack Linden: seems like a business opportunity to me

[11:59] Dennis Lagan: the guy from support didn't understand one wanted to drop this nice traffic benefit.

[11:59] Jack Linden: :)

[11:59] Jack Linden: okays, I'd best zip to my next meeting. great chat folks, thanks as always!