User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-11-19

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  • [10:59] Uni Ninetails: oop blue dot inbound
  • [11:00] kestryl Appin: ta d
  • [11:00] Melody Regent: Jack daahhhlling, how are you this fine day?
  • [11:00] kestryl Appin: knnregegkger
  • [11:00] Marianne McCann: hi1
  • [11:00] Marianne McCann: Hiya
  • [11:00] Uni Ninetails: holy hells Jack got old...
  • [11:00] Qie Niangao: Greetings, Jack
  • [11:00] Jack Linden: hullooo!
  • [11:00] Uni Ninetails: hihi
  • [11:00] LisaDeanna Zhora: thats what LL does to ya
  • [11:00] Jack Linden: rezzing rezzing..
  • [11:00] Alexxa Despres: hello Jack ;)
  • [11:00] Melody Regent: old is ok, its the... weight that I worry about, not good for the heart
  • [11:00] PrOpAiN Electricteeth: Hello Jack 8-)
  • [11:00] Driftwood Miles: Hey thar jACK
  • [11:00] Charlene Trudeau: hey, Jack
  • [11:01] Charlene Trudeau: hiya, Uni
  • [11:01] Uni Ninetails: Hiya Char :)
  • [11:01] Melody Regent: Heya Charlene
  • [11:01] Melody Regent: Hello VNP
  • [11:01] Melody Regent: So Jack, you didn’t answer me last time. A few of user were wondering (before we get started of course) What is your favorite breakfast cereal and to you prefer it hot or cold? And yes, I have people waiting for me to let them know.
  • [11:01] Marianne McCann sets down her parachute pack and gets ready for the meeting
  • [11:01] Jack Linden: if i trample you please forgive. this laptop seems reluctant to show people :)
  • [11:01] Uni Ninetails: strikes me as a readybrek eater..
  • [11:01] Charlene Trudeau: heh
  • [11:02] Driftwood Miles: BY THE LOOKS, THREE PINTS AND FORTY FAGS
  • [11:02] Driftwood Miles: oops caps lock
  • [11:02] Jack Linden: breakfast cereal? hmm. i don't like cereal that looks like twigs, or hay or weeds.
  • [11:02] Uni Ninetails: lmao
  • [11:02] Alexxa Despres: Capn' Crunch then? :-D
  • [11:02] kestryl Appin: Hi Jack, may I assault you with a question already? Your ticker can take it?
  • [11:02] Jack Linden: I prefer bacon, toast, juice, scotch.. the usual
  • [11:02] Uni Ninetails: mutton vindaloo and a horlicks then
  • [11:02] Driftwood Miles: lol
  • [11:02] PrOpAiN Electricteeth: hmmm.. no hay or weeds.. :P
  • [11:02] Melody Regent: damn, I was going for Fruit loops or sumtin
  • [11:02] Alexxa Despres: LOL jack
  • [11:03] Deemi Denimore: hello all
  • [11:03] Alexxa Despres: Hi ya Deemi ;)
  • [11:03] PrOpAiN Electricteeth: Hello Demi
  • [11:03] LisaDeanna Zhora: Hi Deemi
  • [11:03] Driftwood Miles: Hi there :)
  • [11:03] Jack Linden: some of those nuts,oat, iron, raison type cereals just baffle me
  • [11:03] Zoha Boa: hi everyone
  • [11:03] LisaDeanna Zhora: Hi Zoha
  • [11:03] Jack Linden: i don't want to work that hard in the morning. what about you guys.. favourite breakfast?
  • [11:03] Alexxa Despres: Hi Zoha ;-)
  • [11:04] Uni Ninetails: morning Jack i just drove across the uk, twice and am getting drunk so peach cider for breakfast
  • [11:04] PrOpAiN Electricteeth: I like hay and weeds myself..
  • [11:04] Charlene Trudeau: yogurt and granola washed down with diet coke ;P
  • [11:04] Melody Regent: ok, well there is a sandwich on the table with coffee, you dont look like you have eaten today.
  • [11:04] Marianne McCann: Sugary cereal, a-course
  • [11:04] Jack Linden: ah Uni, bad traffic eh?
  • [11:04] kestryl Appin: Jack, regarding LL policy of self monitoring bots, just HOW is this being accomplished when LL doesnt have the staff to go about it?

What kinds of places are they looking for (what search terms used) and are they actually visiting those places to look? By what means is LL using to think there *might* be abuse of them?

  • [11:04] Uni Ninetails: bad?!?!? surface water, rain gales floods....
  • [11:05] Deemi Denimore: i am german and fat .......smiles...i like to have a good continental breakfeast with all
  • [11:05] kestryl Appin: Sorry, still on coffee high, couildnt wait to get started
  • [11:06] kestryl Appin: Plus I havent been able to molest Jack in a long time :-P
  • [11:06] Jack Linden: Hey Kestryl, it's a new initiative, we're still ramping up, we are enforing and handle many hundreds of cases per week but no, we don't get every single one
  • [11:06] Marianne McCann: Jack, I wanted to say thanks for helping get the new hub code through. It's making a big, big difference in Bay City, especially with the Hau Koda site.
  • [11:06] Melody Regent: so jack, how has your week been since the class announcement. How was that recvd, in your opionon? When will we be hearing more on what to expect on that? Like the script limits? Will we have a say in how we want this handled?
  • [11:06] kestryl Appin: That doesnt answer a single question
  • [11:06] Uni Ninetails: nods hau koda was looking better last i poped in
  • [11:06] Melody Regent whipsers Hello Monnie and Holy! Thanks for coming
  • [11:07] MoonMaiden Horner: Hi Mel :)
  • [11:07] Jack Linden: Yes they always visit places they are making a call on
  • [11:07] Melody Regent: (sorry, ignor the question, I hit enter to soon, we can get to it after you are done with Kes
  • [11:07] kestryl Appin: But how do they determine they *might* need to?
  • [11:07] Jack Linden: Marianne.. yeah.. and we've a second more minor tweak that will help more i believe
  • [11:07] kestryl Appin: Are they ignoring AR's about them?
  • [11:07] Marianne McCann: Oh? Whats that?
  • [11:07] Jack Linden: through abuse reports, or by looking for high rated venues in the common search terms
  • [11:08] Zoha Boa: Jack, why can't we report (AR) bots and campers ?
  • [11:08] kestryl Appin: Then why is one place that's been known about for two months still using them?
  • [11:08] LisaDeanna Zhora: Kes.. report again and again
  • [11:08] kestryl Appin: They may have an excuse that they are real peole, but my pis prove otherwise
  • [11:08] LisaDeanna Zhora: they might have talked with them and swatted their hands.. report again
  • [11:09] kestryl Appin: I have I've done it dozens of times
  • [11:09] Jack Linden: Marianne, it just refines the placement so that you won't get placed at somewhere with no-one there, or somewhere too full.Ideally you want to land somewhere with 5-10 people
  • [11:09] Uni Ninetails: how damn difficult can it be to see an accounts been logged in for 8 hours + has communicated with anyone or moved?
  • [11:09] Jack Linden: Zoha, you can if you wish to
  • [11:09] Zoha Boa: How?
  • [11:09] kestryl Appin: I've given them pics that showthe eople are clouds, or ven invisible
  • [11:09] Zoha Boa: what categoriy?
  • [11:09] LisaDeanna Zhora: Unfair system resources
  • [11:09] Enemy Coba: good afternoon to you all
  • [11:09] Melody Regent: (for those just arriving, they are talking about Bots)
  • [11:09] Enemy Coba: ok
  • [11:10] kestryl Appin: I've given LL at least a dozen reports about it, and them
  • [11:10] Enemy Coba: hello miss alexxa
  • [11:10] Jack Linden: Kestryl, we've had this conversation last week.. I cannot answer to specific cases in my office hours. I do not know why that particular one has or has not been dealt with
  • [11:10] Alexxa Despres: Hi Enemy ;)
  • [11:10] kestryl Appin: "Other" catagory
  • [11:10] Marianne McCann: Very cool. Will the older hubs (like Bear, Ross, Miramare, etc) be getting the same load as newer (Hau Koda, Helfell,e tc.)?
  • [11:10] Dennis Lagan: Can you tell us how many avatars verified as bots are currently online?
  • [11:10] Jack Linden: By the way,I think so far we've had over a thousand accounts identified as being Bots through the account pages
  • [11:11] Jack Linden: So it'll be interesting to see how that number changes over time
  • [11:11] Jack Linden: Marianne, in theory yes! :)
  • [11:11] kestryl Appin: alright then, how about this....As for the ACP, whatever happened to enforcing a crackdown on violent themed places. We were told it's "difficult" by you, so how is that going now, these months later?
  • [11:11] LisaDeanna Zhora: But how many of those 1k are in the sky and in a box?
  • [11:11] Marianne McCann: Excellent
  • [11:11] Jack Linden: Kestryl, ACP?
  • [11:11] LisaDeanna Zhora: I can direct you to two places and one is a WELL KNOWN place
  • [11:12] kestryl Appin: Adult Content Policy
  • [11:12] kestryl Appin: (I've given them dozens, Lisa, and hardly any have been dealt with)
  • [11:12] Dennis Lagan: over a thousand is nothing. if you look at the map, and count, for just 150 sims you will find easely 50 bots. and since there are 26000 private sims that means around 8000 bots (online, not saying how many bots are not online at that moment)
  • [11:13] Jack Linden: Ah. That work continues. It'll be ongoing and constant. We may never get every single one as soon as it appears, but of course the aim is to keep pushing
  • [11:13] LisaDeanna Zhora: have you called in , kes, to make sure your AR was seen?
  • [11:13] kestryl Appin: blinks...And what has been started on that, Jack?
  • [11:13] Jack Linden: Dennis, agreed.. it's not that many. It's early days though
  • [11:13] Marianne McCann: I am also curious about encroachment policy stuff. Are issues of encroachment, expecially on Linden Land, treated as very much back burner issues? I know of a couple plots that have had issues with squatters for some time, and one of note where a resident uses the "root prim"" exploit to place a very oversized billboard for their store on Linden land. Do these get actioned?
  • [11:13] Jack Linden: Enforcement, as that keeps picking up, will drive that number up
  • [11:14] Jack Linden: Marianne, they really do. You might try filing a Land support ticket for those
  • [11:14] Jack Linden: rather than abuse reports
  • [11:14] Uni Ninetails: Encroachment also effects megaprims being "supported" *grumbles Need an encroachment solution.
  • [11:14] kestryl Appin: LL CLEARLY dont have the means to enforce it, Jack
  • [11:14] kestryl Appin: Has LL done anything about updating the filtered words list? And why is it I can still find these on mature? (Welcome to J******** Dark Role Play Goth BDSM free Combat).....and this....(Here at the F*****y Ranch you will find the best dancers & escorts in SL.) and this.....(City of A***** - CCS Combat Roleplay 8xp , sex , BDSM , Dark roleplay , house rent , skybox , Vampire)
  • [11:14] Melody Regent: Yes Jack, that policy is a joke. I have filed LOADS of tickets on one person and so far NONE have been taken care of. Thier items and partickls come over on our land and for months now, noone does anything
  • [11:14] Marianne McCann: Okay I'll do that, and see what happens from there
  • [11:14] Ciaran Laval: Enforcement isn't Linden lab's strong point
  • [11:15] Driftwood Miles: isn't it being outsourced?
  • [11:15] Jack Linden: Uni.. we have some code that is waiting for a placein the release roadmap downthe line, that if we released it would allow a person to return content that overhangs their land
  • [11:15] Ciaran Laval: Outside enforcement? That sounds shady!
  • [11:15] kestryl Appin: Enforcement, LL ..*she starts to growl*...that's putting it mildly Ciaran
  • [11:15] Jack Linden: But there are some tough edge cases with that, that we need to work on
  • [11:15] Driftwood Miles: about right then :)
  • [11:15] Uni Ninetails: Oh thats interesting Jack
  • [11:15] Melody Regent: how has your week been since the class announcement. How was that recvd, in your opionon? When will we be hearing more on what to expect on that? Like the script limits? Will we have a say in how we want this handled?
  • [11:16] Qie Niangao: Ciaran, it would be shady if it were outsourced to me.
  • [11:16] LisaDeanna Zhora: does that include "Set upon" too , jack?
  • [11:16] Jack Linden: Melody, it's been almost entirely positive so far
  • [11:16] Jack Linden: LisaDeanna, what do you mean?
  • [11:16] Ciaran Laval: lol Qie
  • [11:16] LisaDeanna Zhora: The return "code"
  • [11:16] Uni Ninetails: sat upon?
  • [11:17] Melody Regent: I am trying to work with my clients to keep them informed and the number one questions is the script limits. When will we see some sort of draft about those and how will they be handled
  • [11:17] Jack Linden: Yes, lets not give that to Qie :)
  • [11:17] Jack Linden: Melody, Q1 you will start to see that appear in the Viewer
  • [11:17] Dytska Vieria: And please, with script limits, make an annoucment that goes to as many scripters as possible as to where on the beta grid it can be tested before it goes live!
  • [11:18] Dennis Lagan: Jack, some time ago you told us that we would be happy to see what you still had in the "pipeline" by the end of the year. (as a defence on for example the still not beeing updated statistics page, the slow progress on script limits,...). Can we still exepct anything? the year ends in a month and 10 days... (Expect anything means positive for the residents, not lindenlab in the first place)
  • [11:18] Jack Linden: LisaDeanna, not sure I understand the question.. but the idea is that if any part of a prims bounding shape, overlaps your land, you would be able to return it.
  • [11:18] Melody Regent: Do you have the limit ideas in place. I know we will see them in the viewer in Q1, but when can we see the requirements and what to look for. If they are going to be in the viewer, then you shuld already have an idea of what you are going to ask of us. When can we see THAT
  • [11:18] LisaDeanna Zhora: OK thanks
  • [11:18] Jack Linden: Problem is, things like Linden roads and trees would need to be exempt from that
  • [11:19] Uni Ninetails: if owner/creator = *Linden do nothing :)
  • [11:19] Jack Linden: Also certain cut prims are an issue, as the bounding box may be overlapping but the actual physical prim is not
  • [11:19] Timo Daehlie: Jack , i ve a question, actually several about the same subject : .. How many mainland sims do have roads ? How many of them have them are finished ? How many man hours does it take to complete one and how many staff you ve put on it ? Cause i see many roadsides uncompleted for a long time while for example those in Zindra were built pretty fast.
  • [11:20] LisaDeanna Zhora: I was thinking when people were editing them or sitting on them and then crossing the borders. But that answers my question
  • [11:20] Rihanna Laasonen: Why should those be exceptions, Jack?
  • [11:20] Jack Linden: Melody, all there will be at first is the numeric info on script load.
  • [11:20] Marianne McCann: I could see the old Linden trees being an issue, esp with Linden ownership. Probably want to exempt last name "Mole" too
  • [11:20] Uni Ninetails: nods
  • [11:20] Rihanna Laasonen: If it's not causing a problem, then presumably people wouldn't want to return them anyway.
  • [11:20] Jack Linden: We'll explain more about those numbers closer to the time but it'll essentially by memory based
  • [11:20] Rihanna Laasonen: If it is causing a problem, it shouldn't matter whether it's just the bounding box or not.
  • [11:21] kestryl Appin: Oh, just for the record, the reason I brought it up again, Jack, was in response to the ticket answer you suggested I submit about it
  • [11:21] Jack Linden: Rihanna, you'd hope so! :) People do like to zap things though, givenhalf a chance.
  • [11:21] Melody Regent: the other important question from clients is (yes I know we will know more later but wont stop me from asking) Will we, the sim owners/ems be able to choose between parcel limits and simply full sim limits? IR, I can say that each parcel gets *this* or turn it off and allow it per sim wide?
  • [11:23] Qie Niangao: Oh, Mel, interesting: a "script bonus" like a "prim bonus"
  • [11:23] Jack Linden: Melody, after the 'info' is in the viewer, we will then look at adding tools to manage it.. probably Q2/Q3 timeframe.. but that's the kind of idea yes
  • [11:23] Jack Linden: That you would have some choice over where resource is spent
  • [11:23] Marianne McCann: Sounds like a good idea, t'me
  • [11:23] Dytska Vieria: Jack, how can script limits be implemented before server-side script bugs such as http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 are not scheduled to be fixed until Q2 at the earliest?
  • [11:23] kestryl Appin: (Then again Isee nothing added to the filtered word list as yet, no change, even suggested things like "stripper(s)" or "Escort(s)" meaening, once again, LL isnt effectively making this ACP work
  • [11:23] Dennis Lagan: prim bonus is totally outdated tough. wy can estate owners not have a special tab on each parcels "about land " dialog to allocate prims the way they want to
  • [11:24] Jack Linden: There may be a baseline that you'd be held to, to ensure that people TPing in can always have their scripts running at least to begin with.
  • [11:24] Jack Linden: But all that is in the planning stage
  • [11:24] Rihanna Laasonen: Agreed, Dennis, provided that applied to mainland owners too and not just estates.
  • [11:25] Melody Regent: ok, then follow up please and then I will try to let others talk *smiles* Will the first time out be set to parcel or sim wide? Seems to me that sim wide would be the way to go until people get an undersatnding on how they work on the parcels and how to control them. Adding parcel based first could open an unwanted can of worms right away, specially since you and us dont know how this will all work yet
  • [11:25] Jack Linden: Dennis, great question.. I think we are increasingly thinking about how we let the estate owner decide how they wish to use their cpu power. Some people might want to dial down script resource in favour of more agents for example
  • [11:25] Charlene Trudeau: yes!
  • [11:25] Charlene Trudeau: lol
  • [11:25] Uni Ninetails: or.... prims :P~
  • [11:25] Qie Niangao: (except that parcel is the only way to control Mainland)
  • [11:25] Jack Linden: But first we need to establish Script Limits so that the main resource points (prims, land etc) have some sensible boundary
  • [11:26] Uni Ninetails: id rahter have resources working on textures no scripts.
  • [11:26] kestryl Appin: (And "torture, combat, blood, kidnap" etc, the more ciolent type words still sit in Mature rating, so much for enforcement of violent themes)
  • [11:26] Jack Linden: Prims, yes.. maybe someone would want fewer Agents but more Prims
  • [11:27] Uni Ninetails: need to get away from this prims limit hash time to rethink it all.
  • [11:27] Melody Regent: Qie, most of these tools will not apply to mainland
  • [11:28] Rihanna Laasonen: Obviously, some of these shouldn't and can't apply to mainland. But wishlist things like script limits per parcel or prim limits per parcel should apply to the landowner, regardless of whether it's estate land or mainland.
  • [11:28] Jack Linden: If we had that kind of flexibility then estates would be able to build their own products within those constraints.
  • [11:28] Qie Niangao: Right, I understand, but I mean per-parcel script limits have to exist; but yeah, moving the resources among parcels or across the whole sim on Estates: I can see the sim-wide stuff would be the first of those needed.
  • [11:28] Jack Linden: Rihanna, some will still impact Mainland.. definitely.
  • [11:28] Jack Linden: But in those cases we are acting as estate owner
  • [11:28] Melody Regent: mainland only makes sence with parcel limits.
  • [11:29] Melody Regent: but as always, the privates should have more controls on this
  • [11:29] Jack Linden nods
  • [11:29] Uni Ninetails: Another thing, as i understand it now regions are splatted across a server rack all higglety piggelty. why not give estate owners a CHOICE to be grouped. if they are not already to improve communication between joined regions. and give the estate as a whole more fineite control over server useage.
  • [11:29] Rihanna Laasonen: I don't know enough about the tech aspects, so I'll take your word on that for the scripts. :-)
  • [11:30] Melody Regent: Jack, will you be making them sim wide limits to start? So we can get a handle on it before parcel limits are in place (privates of course- however, mainland would be a good place to experiment with the parcel limits)
  • [11:30] Zoha Boa: another problem i see with a parcel limit is when lets say a small shop on a 4k sqm parcel has an opening that the visitors during that opening party will use to many scripts
  • [11:31] Jack Linden: Uni.. we get asked that one a lot. Historically the reason we don't do that is that it starts to break the idea of our Grid with it's Pool of spares.. lets say you had 4 regions on a server, and one totally died in a bad way that couldn't auto start, do we restart all of them, even the ones that were fine?
  • [11:31] Uni Ninetails: ton of scripting resources gets removed simply by making a client side animation overide. using the emerald one my tp times dropped considerably and my avatar script time is minimal.
  • [11:31] Uni Ninetails: CHOICE jack CHOICE
  • [11:32] Jack Linden: Maybe that becomes an option for the estates, agreed
  • [11:32] Marianne McCann: Gotta zip along, all. Have fun!
  • [11:32] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
  • [11:32] Jack Linden: cheers Marianne
  • [11:32] Melody Regent: bye hun
  • [11:32] Uni Ninetails: some estate would risk entire estate kerboom for stable region crossings. :)
  • [11:32] Qie Niangao: (Zoha: last I heard, avatar attachment memory limits are planned to be separate from parcel memory limits, if that addresses the many visitors to an opening problem)
  • [11:33] Jack Linden: hehe Uni
  • [11:33] Ciaran Laval: Yeah that makes sense Qie, avatar prim attachments don't count in the land prim limits
  • [11:33] Uni Ninetails: XD
  • [11:33] Jack Linden: Qie, yes.. we'll be reporting/managing Avatar script resources separately from rezzed content
  • [11:34] Melody Ewing waves to Marc
  • [11:34] Jack Linden: We figure that one day estate owners may want to exclude people from an event based on their avatar's script needs
  • [11:34] Melody Regent: I would like to have a script limit for avis. If someone tries to TP into my sim that has over the script limit I set, it will not allow them, or will TP them home.
  • [11:34] Marc Sylbert waves to Melody Ewing
  • [11:35] Uni Ninetails: deny, not tp home, tp home drive people bonkers :)
  • [11:35] Jack Linden: Yep, and we wouldn't want to tp them but then switch off their scripts either
  • [11:35] Melody Regent: but they need TP home if they go over the limit WHILE on the sim. Some people are bonkes with script times
  • [11:35] Jack Linden: Yep, there are lots of use cases we need to work through
  • [11:36] Melody Regent: I am good with them TPing in, but when they land and are to high, everything on them turns off
  • [11:36] Melody Regent: they can remove stuff until they get under the limit
  • [11:36] Qie Niangao: Did Timo's questions about roads get answered? Is there a prospect of Michael & Moles getting free from their Super Sekrit project any time soon?
  • [11:36] Jack Linden: If the estate owner changes the limits while someone is stood there, should they be immediately affected?
  • [11:36] Melody Regent: This is me dreaming of course
  • [11:36] Jack Linden: Lots of fun edge cases :)
  • [11:36] Timo Daehlie: sharp Qie ;)
  • [11:36] Uni Ninetails: not immediately check every x minutes
  • [11:36] Melody Regent: A warning is ok, freeze them again and let them strip down as needed
  • [11:37] Jack Linden: Hey Qie.. did I miss Timo's question?
  • [11:37] Timo Daehlie: i ll repeat ..Jack , i ve a question, actually several about the same subject : .. How many mainland sims do have roads ? How many of them have them are finished ? How many man hours does it take to complete one and how many staff you ve put on it ? Cause i see many roadsides uncompleted for a long time while for example those in Zindra were built pretty fast.
  • [11:37] Ciaran Laval: Surely the ideal system will simply present an avatar from having too many scripts running
  • [11:37] Ciaran Laval: prevent even
  • [11:38] Jack Linden: wow timo. hmm. i don't have exact numbers for you on roads, but we have completed them on the majority of Linden parcels that were originally set aside for them
  • [11:38] Jack Linden: We're pretty quick at road building now
  • [11:38] Jack Linden: The moles have rezzers that throw downhighway fairly quickly
  • [11:39] Timo Daehlie: seems to me that the construction workers have a holiday
  • [11:39] Qie Niangao: ooo... I dunno... there's lots of blank roadway on Heterocera... *lots*
  • [11:39] Dytska Vieria: There was a road building schedule at one time
  • [11:39] LisaDeanna Zhora: I can see this now. When someone lands there will be a NC giver, telling them about the script times for their shoes, hair, belts, skirts, boots and we all know some still run around without taking out /deleting the scripts :)
  • [11:39] Uni Ninetails imagines a Mole pointing and saying "road!"
  • [11:39] Jack Linden: We have 20+ moles now, but not all of them work many hours.. so it does vary how much we can do each month
  • [11:39] Jack Linden: I would ping Michael and ask him, he can give you better answers I'm sure
  • [11:40] Alexxa Despres: The moles unionized? ;-P
  • [11:40] Timo Daehlie: dont you think it will be nice to all those who pay tier over the mainland to fjnish them asap ?
  • [11:40] Zoha Boa: pay the moles by every meter they make, not by hr; lol
  • [11:40] Driftwood Miles: Jack , where is the Labs thinking if they are throwing out the idea of Tier Free land in exchange for 30% of sales?
  • [11:40] Uni Ninetails: Id be a mole but the fox in me would eat myself.
  • [11:40] Jack Linden: Oh we absolutely want to complete them timo. We still plan to do so
  • [11:41] Jack Linden: Driftwood.. you referring to the xstreet surveys?
  • [11:41] Timo Daehlie: we ll see ;)
  • [11:41] Driftwood Miles: Indeed
  • [11:41] Melody Regent: Drift? Where is that? I missed that. Free land for sales?
  • [11:41] Rihanna Laasonen: Where did that idea come up? I've seen it mentioned but didn't see a blog post or anything?
  • [11:41] Ciaran Laval: It was from a survey Rhianna, from someone not in the land team to boot
  • [11:41] Charlene Trudeau: yes, Jack, the surveys
  • [11:41] Alexxa Despres: melody...it was the survey that Pink posted on the BLOG
  • [11:42] Rihanna Laasonen: Ah, thanks.
  • [11:42] Melody Regent: ahh, ok. Just some random Idea. OK
  • [11:42] Jack Linden: Just trying to explore some options, nothing more than that at this stage. Obviously we've not had traditional sales tax on content or land transactions, so I think the team were just curious as to what people thought
  • [11:42] Ciaran Laval: The survey was emailed to folks
  • [11:42] VNP Ninetails: yes it was a survey yes and i dont think i agree with that.. in case this idean comes through i hope its optinal to move to those lands
  • [11:42] Timo Daehlie: i take a full sim and start selling L$ stuff ;)
  • [11:42] Timo Daehlie: L$ 1
  • [11:43] Qie Niangao: heh, Timo, cheaper than XstreetSL listing fees now.
  • [11:43] Jack Linden: We've found surveying to be pretty useful, and people seem to be really good at responding (we get high response rates)
  • [11:43] Driftwood Miles: Obviously it has been discussed, my personal view on this is that it is something that would devastate estates.....we are no longer looking into Commercial land and are cautious about getting any sims at all
  • [11:43] Equinox Pinion: so can you confirm that was just wishfull thinking and will not be done
  • [11:43] Timo Daehlie: :)
  • [11:44] Charlene Trudeau agrees with Driftwood
  • [11:44] VNP Ninetails: So Jack u are saying this is higly possible.. ? it is scary
  • [11:44] Jack Linden: Equinox, I can say that it's just an idea we wanted to get feedback on.. there are no decisions hanging on the back of it. We're just seeing what the community feels
  • [11:44] VNP Ninetails: i feel scared and i dont like the idea :D
  • [11:44] Driftwood Miles: Of course there are decisions hanging on the back of it
  • [11:44] Jack Linden: You should expect to see us doing that more, perhaps with evenwhackier ideas hehe
  • [11:44] Charlene Trudeau: does anyone else here watch the traffic in For Sale by Owner? The daily traffic in used sims seems to be a little higher and damn steady
  • [11:45] Alexxa Despres: Why in thew world would that be put in a survey if it wasn't something that has been seriously entertained?
  • [11:45] Equinox Pinion: Jack..you should know what private estate owners thinking about that..no need to ask in a survey for it
  • [11:45] Jack Linden: Driftwood, what I mean is.. we have no plans to enact it.
  • [11:45] Rihanna Laasonen: It seems an odd idea to me. If people would land, they can already choose to spend their sales profits on tier.
  • [11:45] Driftwood Miles: but WHY ask it?
  • [11:45] Rihanna Laasonen: *want land, even
  • [11:45] Driftwood Miles: iyt causes major alarm
  • [11:46] Uni Ninetails: they ask these things to distract from a larger incoming clusterf^%k imho.
  • [11:46] Driftwood Miles: As someone said on the blog , if it walks like a chicken and sounds like a chicken...
  • [11:46] Dytska Vieria: It is November
  • [11:46] Melody Regent: Well, it is indeed a bad idea, that would make it hard for privates to compete.
  • [11:46] Melody Regent clucks
  • [11:46] Uni Ninetails: mmmm chicken...
  • [11:46] Jack Linden: So driftwood, when we want to get feedback on a new idea.. how would you propose we do that without, well, asking it?
  • [11:46] Enemy Coba: lol
  • [11:47] Melody Ewing: whats wrong with asking ?
  • [11:47] Driftwood Miles: LOL But you have said it is something you would not enact!!!
  • [11:47] Charlene Trudeau: no
  • [11:47] Driftwood Miles: so what then is the POINT in asking
  • [11:47] Charlene Trudeau: he said they have no current plans to enact it
  • [11:47] Dytska Vieria: Ask by email, we don't all look at blogs, forums, etc. for info.
  • [11:47] Charlene Trudeau: but if there was strong favorable response, that might change, yes?
  • [11:47] VNP Ninetails: my rl economy depends on this and it is concerning that u are surveying people about cutting 30% off sales in exchange of promotion.. i really dont need it because i pay for promotion anyways
  • [11:47] Rihanna Laasonen: Yes, I'm not convinced that the XStreet latest is the surprise. :-)
  • [11:47] Equinox Pinion: such an idea even shouldnt come up in your mind when you would know what is going on in world
  • [11:47] Alexxa Despres: It's like asking should we make it legal to gamble in SL? If ot's NOT going to happne..why the need to ask it?
  • [11:47] Melody Regent: The surveys are ok, but when you send one out that you dont really plan to enact, why send it out? Or would you have enacted this is everyone but Privtes estate owners lvoed it?
  • [11:47] Ciaran Laval: That survey was sent by email.
  • [11:48] Timo Daehlie: yeah with font size 44
  • [11:48] Melody Regent: Some ideas jack, are really better left in the dark.
  • [11:48] Dytska Vieria: The xstreet fiasco is a good example of something that should have been sent by email.
  • [11:48] Driftwood Miles: exactly Melody
  • [11:48] Jack Linden: If I wanted to know whether removing the 1 region tie-in for homesteads should go away, I can ask that without there being an intention to actually do it. It can be speculative.. and sure it then becomes an input to future decisions but i guess what i'm trying to say is that even if everyone says Yes, it doesn't mean we'd do it. It's not as simple as that
  • [11:49] Jack Linden: Am I making sense?
  • [11:49] Ciaran Laval: so how about if LL took a percentage of your rental fees for no tier instead of a sales model?
  • [11:49] Equinox Pinion: we know that jack lol
  • [11:49] Charlene Trudeau: if you ask that, Jack, you'd better have an army between you and the estate owners ;P
  • [11:49] Enemy Coba: ´lol
  • [11:49] Jack Linden: Maybe I need to send out more scary surveys to de-sensitize you all. *beams*
  • [11:49] VNP Ninetails: and if everybody says NO .. it doenst mean you wont do it?
  • [11:50] Jack Linden: (and yes that was a joke)
  • [11:50] Uni Ninetails: what did i say earlier?
  • [11:50] Uni Ninetails: :P~
  • [11:50] Charlene Trudeau: jack, I'm already desensitized, the sky has been falling for longer than I've been in SL....
  • [11:50] Timo Daehlie: i report them as 914 fraude
  • [11:50] LisaDeanna Zhora never seems to get all these emails for some reason
  • [11:50] Melody Regent: Jack, I think it is more about asking things the right way. Something like the 30% thing excludes a large part of the population and creates an unfair advantage for mainland, since I am assuomng that we cant offer the same land deal for cheaper sim iters.
  • [11:50] Rihanna Laasonen: Surveys with limited audiences are fine for pilot studies. We just don't want decisions being based on them.
  • [11:50] Equinox Pinion: we dont need a survey for that jack...posting blogs does it aleady lol
  • [11:50] Jack Linden: hehe
  • [11:50] Enemy Coba: ehheh
  • [11:51] Melody Regent: The idea of the 1 region thing doesnt make it a mainland thing only, makes it something that is more evenly spread. To me, that is differnt.
  • [11:52] Jack Linden: Yeah, estate owners are definitely very uniformly in favour of keeping the 1 region lockout for Homesteads.
  • [11:52] Praetor Janus: Greetings
  • [11:52] Driftwood Miles: You accuse me of suggesting that LL are not allowed to ask questions of it's users...and that so misses the point I am making. But hey
  • [11:53] LisaDeanna Zhora: Driftwood, do you like eggs or bacon?
  • [11:53] Melody Regent: well, i would close my dorrs if you did it otherwise. However, if the masses voted for that, then I would have no choice... once I screamed myself horse. but the 30% thing is exclusily something Privates cant offer
  • [11:53] Alexxa Despres: The question is...is Linden labs in favor of private estates?
  • [11:53] Driftwood Miles: Neither
  • [11:53] Melody Regent: both speculation, but I see a clear differnce in the KIND of question it is
  • [11:53] LisaDeanna Zhora: you answered a question.. nothing behind the question
  • [11:53] Ciaran Laval: Yeah I'd go for LL taking 30% of my rental fees instead of paying tier and I could take 30% of their sales fees and then LL could take 30% of my 30% ...wait I'm confusing myself
  • [11:53] Driftwood Miles: Why did you ask it then?
  • [11:54] Melody Regent blinks at Ciaran
  • [11:54] LisaDeanna Zhora: Cuase I seen you type :)
  • [11:54] Charlene Trudeau: private estates are still a higher percentage of regions than mainland, as far as I know. Hurting us would be a bad bad move on their part... though it has happened, of course *cough*
  • [11:54] Driftwood Miles: Huh?
  • [11:54] LisaDeanna Zhora: :) nvm
  • [11:54] Jack Linden: Alexxa, we are totally committed to private estates and to their success. hugely.
  • [11:55] Qie Niangao: (I'm gonna throw this out again, about the one region lockout for Homesteads: there *must* be *some* discount level that makes it attractive to Estates to remove that restriction. I don't know what it is, but there is some number above which it would *benefit* estates.)
  • [11:55] Melody Regent: I have seen a few posive moves for privates althought with the normal mess ups.
  • [11:55] Praetor Janus: happy to know that Jack, and to Mainland too I presume
  • [11:55] Melody Regent: So my last question of the day Jack... How are we looking for offering Full sims with a 7500 prim limits. One more land type?
  • [11:55] Equinox Pinion: so why is there just an option for buy mailand when a resident clicks on buy land on the website *g*
  • [11:55] Jack Linden: Praetor.. totally.
  • [11:55] Ciaran Laval: Sure Qie. LL could charge estate owners a sensible lower fee based on how many they own so estate owners could undercut LL in the sales market
  • [11:56] Praetor Janus: I'm very happy
  • [11:56] LisaDeanna Zhora: for what Mel, full sims prims grom down to 7500 from 15K?
  • [11:56] Jack Linden: We can hardly expect estate owners to grow and run large immersive areas if we're not prepared to run a large estate ourselves. :)
  • [11:56] Equinox Pinion: and the link on xstreet for land ads disappeared
  • [11:56] Charlene Trudeau: no, there's no point at which it would be attractive Qie, unless it cost even more for one than it does now to anyone without a full region.
  • [11:56] Jack Linden: We learn a lot from the Mainland
  • [11:56] Melody Regent: no hun, for offering another product. a 65536 land mass with 7500 prims
  • [11:56] Qie Niangao: Charlene, I just can't see how that can be.
  • [11:56] LisaDeanna Zhora: Ah Gotcha
  • [11:56] Melody Regent: I get that request ALOT!!
  • [11:56] PrOpAiN Electricteeth: Jack.. I'm sorry to bring this point up, but this is honestly my first meeting.. Keeping in mind that LL is totally committed to estates.. What is the overall feeling with the new Homestead pricing, as far as tier.. I've seen my homestead sales slip bigtime since the change, and I know my clients are dreading the day thier grandfathered rates end..
  • [11:56] Praetor Janus: Still waiting for your visit to Cortina :)
  • [11:57] Ciaran Laval: Well Charlene how about if direct costs USD$125 a month and you pay USD$85 a month
  • [11:57] Melody Regent: I culd sell 20 of those today
  • [11:57] Charlene Trudeau: oh, yes, in that case, Ciaran, I would go for that
  • [11:57] Qie Niangao: That's the sort of thing I meant, Charlene
  • [11:57] Charlene Trudeau: I still want the open spaces at a decent price
  • [11:57] Melody Regent: or deed to group so it could be USABLE
  • [11:57] Charlene Trudeau: I have two and the only reason they are staying is because when I told my residents I was ditching them, they pitched in to pay half the tier
  • [11:58] Praetor Janus: Jack I need to talk with you about the blake sea too, cann I send you a note?
  • [11:58] Driftwood Miles: That is going to pretty much destroy the market or full sims
  • [11:58] Charlene Trudeau: that too, Melody
  • [11:58] Jack Linden: PrOpAiN (argh that's hard to type).. I totally hear you, and yes we need to make a clear statement on that early.
  • [11:58] Driftwood Miles: of
  • [11:58] Charlene Trudeau: even if it was required that a Linden do the deeding and it could never change, we really need that
  • [11:58] Jack Linden: But I can't make a statement on it now sadly.
  • [11:58] Rihanna Laasonen: Speaking as a mainlander who really dislikes the homestead-linked-to-full policy, I'd be perfectly with unlinked homesteads costing more, even much more than linked ones.
  • [11:58] Jack Linden: Praetor.. of course!
  • [11:58] Melody Regent: When can you Jack?
  • [11:58] Rihanna Laasonen: *perfectly happy
  • [11:59] Melody Regent peeks under Prators jacket since it is over her head nearly anyway
  • [11:59] Praetor Janus: Oh sorry Mel :D
  • [11:59] Melody Regent: I dont mind looking
  • [11:59] LisaDeanna Zhora: she likes her nose tickled
  • [11:59] MoonMaiden Horner giggles
  • [11:59] PrOpAiN Electricteeth: 8-) Thank you Jack.. hehe. That sounds like it might be a great statement to hear.. hopefully :)
  • [11:59] Jack Linden: Melody, i can't give an exact time. My preference would be that we make a clear announcement early in the new year.. so early january
  • [11:59] Praetor Janus: was the view nice? :D
  • [12:00] CPU Core: have i arrived at the beginning or end of an office hour?
  • [12:00] Charlene Trudeau: I have an empty one I can't fill right now because I'm too honest not to disclose what the rate will be in July with current plans
  • [12:00] Zoha Boa: whatever the announcement will be can you GUARENTEE us that you will not change it in mai ?
  • [12:00] Enemy Coba: at the end
  • [12:00] Melody Regent: thank you Jack, the sooner the better. A difinative, we are not changing our minds answer will make a differnce in how I take my business next year
  • [12:00] Charlene Trudeau: end, CPU :)
  • [12:00] Praetor Janus: you flatter me Mel :)
  • [12:00] Alexxa Despres: end...CPU ;)
  • [12:00] CPU Core: aww :(
  • [12:00] VNP Ninetails: ugh i need to leave bye for now
  • [12:00] Jack Linden: :) okays folks, my hour is up
  • [12:00] Qie Niangao: thanks, Jack.
  • [12:00] Jack Linden: thank you all so much for coming along, really appreciate it
  • [12:01] Enemy Coba: ok jack have a great wekeend
  • [12:01] VNP Ninetails: thanks Jack!
  • [12:01] Melody Regent: thank you Jack, see you later. Havea good weekend
  • [12:01] Zoha Boa: take care
  • [12:01] Jack Linden: take care all!

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