User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-06-11

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[11:06] Jack Linden: hey folks, sorry for the tardy timekeeping.

[11:07] Renzo Goodliffe smiles back to his beloved witch-Queen

[11:07] Uni Ninetails: Jack how the hell are ya?

[11:07] TumbleWeed Loopen: chair, even, *she grumb;es and finds another spot

[11:07] xstorm Radek: hi Leo :-)

[11:07] Laica Forcella: hello

[11:07] Jack Linden: I'm enjoying the san francisco lifestyle Uni!

[11:07] xstorm Radek: ooppsss

[11:07] xstorm Radek: geo

[11:07] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:07] xstorm Radek: i get you mix up

[11:08] Marianne McCann: Hi Jack

[11:08] Marianne McCann: How're the parrots?

[11:08] xstorm Radek: Geo have you been train yet ?

[11:08] TumbleWeed Loopen: Ive been making a nusance of myself at the Expo...for a little bit

[11:08] Qie Niangao: Jack, I'd like to raise something that's a big problem for Premium membership... it's jira MISC-1961 - "Premium accounts that miss payments to LL risk having the account & inventory getting deleted" ... It just seems really *wrong* in every way.

[11:08] Jack Linden: ha, the telegraph hill parrots are incessant. but very pretty

[11:08] Marianne McCann grins

[11:09] Jack Linden: Qie, is this folks that haven't paid for a while?

[11:09] Qie Niangao: yeah

[11:09] xstorm Radek: Jack you need to tell geo its ok to type

[11:09] Qie Niangao: it's supposed to be 60 days, but they've been deleting inventory at 30 now... but the weird thing is that Basics can hang on forever.

[11:09] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, are naked protests allowed in your office ?

[11:09] Jack Linden: yeah we're actually looking at that right now. i think we zap stuff a little too quickly at the moment

[11:10] Jack Linden: so i'm thinking of changing that and adding more warning emails

[11:10] Khannea Suntzu: Hoi hoi y'all

[11:10] Marianne McCann: Sounds good t'me

[11:10] Renzo Goodliffe: Hello K girl

[11:10] Geo Linden: that's ok -- just a bystander here

[11:10] Laica Forcella take her finge down and caress her chastity belt

[11:10] Qie Niangao: Well, I don't see why they have to delete inventory ever... just spool it off to near-line storage or something.

[11:10] xstorm Radek: hi Morgaine

[11:10] Renzo Goodliffe: Hi Bill !

[11:10] Jack Linden: the problem is that if we extend it out then they accrue more fees, so we'd have to suspend the fees as well of course

[11:10] Morgaine Dinova: Hi xstorm :-)

[11:10] bill Goldberg: hi renzo whats the topic ?

[11:10] xstorm Radek: :-)

[11:11] Khannea Suntzu: Ok how far is the discussion and what have I missed?

[11:11] Qie Niangao: oh, they mostly don't care about the land... it's the inventory that's such a killer.

[11:11] Khannea Suntzu: IM if it is a lot

[11:11] Renzo Goodliffe: the parcel moves to Zindra, mainly, but it just started

[11:11] Laica Forcella: hello. bill

[11:11] bill Goldberg: hey laica

[11:11] TumbleWeed Loopen: Well, Id like to know what kind of "case by case" help, specifically, movers will get

[11:11] Uni Ninetails: we just started

[11:11] Jack Linden: yeah agreed, the Inv is a part of your identity so zapping it is very destructive

[11:11] xstorm Radek: seems there are humens that wish to get nude and protest that they are nude

[11:11] Khannea Suntzu: What? is Linden going to mess around with my invenmtory?

[11:11] TumbleWeed Loopen waves her hand, "Nude away I'd say"

[11:12] Qie Niangao: if they just downgraded to basic and lost the land after fees are too far in arrears, it would be a big win.

[11:12] Jack Linden: there are nude protests?

[11:12] Jack Linden: they just not have rezzed yet

[11:12] xstorm Radek: seems so *GIGGLES* :)

[11:12] Uni Ninetails: lol

[11:12] Jas Constantine: im tempted to become my normal nude and bound self

[11:12] xstorm Radek: must not have rez for me yet

[11:12] Marianne McCann will not be taking part in any new protests

[11:12] Jack Linden: Khannea, no we're just talking about what actions LL takes when a Premium member stops paying

[11:12] Khannea Suntzu: Well I look fully clothed from this angle, but if people insist on camming me from below they would have to suffer me not wearing panties.

[11:13] Marianne McCann: nude*

[11:13] xstorm Radek: stops paying ?

[11:13] Khannea Suntzu: Ok

[11:13] xstorm Radek: why stop paying ?

[11:13] Uni Ninetails: Jack the advert for the Homesteads on the main page was a bit of a slap in the fave btw

[11:13] Qie Niangao: (for those playing along, it's filed as http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1961)

[11:13] Uni Ninetails: *face

[11:13] bill Goldberg: what do you get with a primuam account anyways

[11:13] Jack Linden: Tumbleweed, it's hard to define what 'case by case' help is, because well, it's case by case. :) the point there is that if you have an edge case (and we're all about edge cases), then we will need to work through that with you

[11:13] Melodie Darwin: but a free account can keep their inventory forever, so it just seems backwards. like the stuff shouldnt get deleted

[11:14] Jack Linden: Uni, how so?

[11:14] TumbleWeed Loopen: Specifically then, moving things help on "Some?

[11:14] Jack Linden: not sure i understand tumble?

[11:14] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION : will people owning parcel > 1/4 region on Mainland that host Adult content will be offered to get a full region of Zindra for free, instead of the expensive in fees Islands that you propose us ?

[11:14] Jack Linden: someone has an open mic by the way. I hear breathing! :)

[11:15] Uni Ninetails: Just is. i killed a ton of work 4 homesteads, along with my friends drpping 20. to consolodate i got a fullsim Just seeing that makes me sick. plus the lashback of lost revenue due to people leaving fullsim rentals to get homesteads back

[11:15] xstorm Radek: i hate to think that if a prem account holder is sick in the hospital and miss a payment they do not get there account closed and lock

[11:15] TumbleWeed Loopen: I have one place that, cinse it's in the sky, doesnt matter what shape the land is. Its made from many people, it would take me hours but LL minutes to move it

[11:15] Jack Linden: Renzo, you mean trading a 16k parcel up to a 65k one on Zindra?

[11:16] Renzo Goodliffe: yes

[11:16] Renzo Goodliffe: A group owner should submit the ticket to migrate. The first request submitted from an Owner is the one we will honor.


If the group wants to request movement to a Private Region instead (and they own more than 16,384m^2), things get more complex, as Private Regions can only be owned by individual Residents. The request should come from the individual who is prepared to take on ownership of the Private Region (as well as responsibility for the set up fee, and monthly fees thereafter). They must have billing information on file.

[11:16] Jack Linden: That's probably more than we can do realistically. We're aiming for some equivalence in size but we won't be strict on that.. so 16k --> 20k would be fine, but 16k to 32k would be a little much

[11:16] Renzo Goodliffe: You offer them a Island region, which cost 51% more in fee than Zindra

[11:17] TumbleWeed Loopen: Renzo,they mean you can go to a estte, notZindra

[11:17] Jack Linden: Uni, i agree that's a tricky changeover, and one we did talk about but in making what i think was a very good move (grandfathering), that does cause some problems. I don't have an easy solution there sadly

[11:17] Renzo Goodliffe: yes Tumble, I think i got an answer, basically you can ask only near the size you had

[11:18] Uni Ninetails: i know i see LL point in advertising just feel a bit sour about it

[11:18] TumbleWeed Loopen: Right,OR choose for a partial estate

[11:18] xstorm Radek: i did say last time grandfathering will not work good and will have problems

[11:18] Jack Linden: renzo, the main point about offering the full region option is this.. in those cases you don't have to rebuild as we can clone the Mainland space you are on, remove everyone elses content and leave you with everything intact but on an island

[11:18] Jack Linden: So for some people that is a big win

[11:19] xstorm Radek: and in time there will be even more problems with it

[11:19] Jack Linden: we can't do that sort of thing with a move to mainland

[11:19] lexiza Darwin: ohhh sorry wait

[11:19] Qie Niangao: this would be a convenient time to have standalone Homesteads available, as alternate swaps for up to half-a-sim of Mainland.

[11:19] Uni Ninetails: Jack whens zindra open for exploration i have keen interest in the work the moles did

[11:19] Ciaran Laval: Absolutely Qie

[11:19] Marianne McCann: Uni - likewise. Curiosu to see Kama City

[11:19] xstorm Radek: close to all the moles are gone

[11:19] Jas Constantine: good to see you pam

[11:19] Marianne McCann: Curious*

[11:19] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, why not make monthly fees on private Island the same than on Mainland, then ? That would be fair as it a forced relocation

[11:20] Morgaine Dinova: Premium account holders can stop paying for a large number of reasons --- not everyone is flowing in money. And the virtual avatar should not be *murdered* (virtually) when that happens, by denying her access to the world.

[11:20] Jack Linden: Qie, we looked long and hard at the Homestead lock but we feel that is needs to remain as a product that is available to full region owners

[11:20] Khannea Suntzu: Jack, can you in three sentences indicate why the need is so big for LL to smooth out of view any adult content - I mean LL is situated in a partial theorcracy - is pressure really all that extreme? Is there a danger to LL of being closed down orf impaired? Cant you expand under the current conditions? Are you ashamed? Have you looked at other long term soluions t these issues?

[11:20] TumbleWeed Loopen: So again, can it be that LL can take my items, (or those made FOR me but not *mine*) and move it all?

[11:20] xstorm Radek: do to tax laws it seem LL has less moles now

[11:20] Jack Linden: Renzo, islands have far more functionality so it makes sense that the two products are not exactly the same on monthly fees

[11:20] Uni Ninetails: id like to learn by example of LL building code

[11:20] Qie Niangao: I understand, Jack... I just think there's another product there somewhere that's a lot like a Homestead, but slightly higher fees, for standalone.

[11:21] Jack Linden: Morgaine, I agree.. and we're looking at that now.

[11:21] Morgaine Dinova: Jack: good news, thanks.

[11:21] Renzo Goodliffe: I don't want to bother Jack with that, can someone here tell me what Functionality private Islands have that Zindra's region don't have ?

[11:21] Qie Niangao: ((xstorm, your mic is open))

[11:21] xstorm Radek: i feel it is a shame that LL can not have people from other places work for them as moles

[11:22] Marianne McCann: Renzo - estate tools

[11:22] Dytska Vieria: I want free islands with a 2-year commitment, like my cell phone ;)

[11:22] Renzo Goodliffe: What do Estate tools do, Marianne, I never had an island yet

[11:22] Equinox Pinion: renzo..more than 40 avis at onces

[11:22] Uni Ninetails: Lots of fun things

[11:22] Renzo Goodliffe: 65, right ?

[11:22] Jas Constantine: wait -- i want to hear Khannea Suntzu's quesion answered... we need to stay on subject...

[11:22] Equinox Pinion: 100

[11:22] Marianne McCann: Renzo include a very sizable number of functions and abilities to controlling the land

[11:22] Jack Linden: Khannea, there are many reasons and the blog posts have covered most but I can have a go... 1) For a consumer product like Second Life, it's unreasonable to invite new people into an experience where they cannot choose whether to view very strong material. We feel there has to be a proactive choice to view, not a casual encounter with something you may find very offensive.

[11:23] Equinox Pinion: and you can terrainform the way you want to

[11:23] Ciaran Laval: Far better terraforming on islands that's true

[11:23] Renzo Goodliffe: Very few places have often 40 people at once already

[11:23] Jack Linden: 2) We also think that in doing this we will open up much better ways for adult services to market and control their markets

[11:23] Uni Ninetails: Change textures for terrian

[11:23] Ciaran Laval: waterfront on 4 sides if you want

[11:23] xstorm Radek: in time with more people coming in to SL and the way LL will have to stick to only the states they wish to use this will put off some people from coming in to SL

[11:24] Jack Linden: 3) it makes our governance of the grid much cleaner and allow us to provide a better customer service if there is a clear divide

[11:24] Renzo Goodliffe: Thanks to all who answered me, i still think it's not worth 51% more

[11:24] Pamela McNally: Jack would this be allowed or is this too extreme

[11:24] Jack Linden: I could go on but you get the idea

[11:24] Jas Constantine thinks of hitler rounding up the jews

[11:24] Carrie Easterman sighs

[11:24] Ciaran Laval: Godwinned already

[11:24] Dytska Vieria: jez

[11:24] Jas Constantine: its discrimination, plain and simple and it stinks

[11:24] Equinox Pinion: please jas.......

[11:25] Marianne McCann: Heh... Go Go Godwin!

[11:25] Jack Linden: pamela, the definitions are not really my area but as far as i can see you're dressed but tied. that doesn't seem like strong material to me

[11:25] Melodie Darwin: Fast forward to 1 year from now... Adult content has moved, large tracts of land are returned and sit abandoned, and the moles are so restricted in where they can hire from all they have time to do is script tumbleweeds to blow across the mainland. What will LL do to attract new users/retain current ones and keep the mainland from turning into such a ghost town? How soon can we expect to see it? And when will the BS rules for mole hiring get changed?

[11:25] Ciaran Laval: If people would stop putting obscene words in PG search maybe this wouldn't have had to happen

[11:25] Pamela McNally: is bondage like this concidered adult Jack?

[11:25] Uni Ninetails: sighs

[11:26] Uni Ninetails: I wanted to be a mole but after looking at the application i thought the hell with it

[11:26] Marianne McCann: I tried Uni. My application was lost and forgotten.

[11:26] Jack Linden: melodie, interesting that you ask that. the Mole hiring is a difficult issue, but we're talking to some external vendors who may be able to solve that problem for us

[11:26] xstorm Radek: it is sad to see

[11:26] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, if a parcel has both adult and non-adult commercial content, can its owner requests a swap for the whole parcel or must he split his parcel and ask for a smaller parcel of only the size of his adult activities ?

[11:26] Jack Linden: So we'll talk more about that when we have something tangible

[11:27] Uni Ninetails: so i make stuff keep my prices fair.... etc

[11:27] xstorm Radek: and what will a big company think about it ?

[11:27] Marianne McCann: i'm good enough for a Gold solution Provider, but not for mole work

[11:27] Marianne McCann giggles

[11:27] xstorm Radek: public relations will have a field day with it

[11:27] Jack Linden: Pamela, as i said, I can't really review your avatar in my office hours.

[11:27] Pamela McNally: this is the type of bondage i was referring t as long as it is fun-consentual and no sex and BDSM is never about the sex act

[11:27] Uni Ninetails: im a copper solution provider :)

[11:27] Ciaran Laval: Don't you have to pay to be a Gold solution provider?

[11:28] Renzo Goodliffe: pamela, Blondin answered on that yesterday

[11:28] Renzo Goodliffe: All Bondage wear is mature, non adult

[11:28] Jack Linden: Renzo, you can keep the old parcel and ask for one the same size on Zindra if you have a significantly impacted adult business or service

[11:28] Melodie Darwin: What are the total amounts of abandoned microparcels that have been recycled to neighbors, and how much remains abandoned?

[11:28] Uni Ninetails: you wanna get some shibari. tied scarfs are to easy to get out of

[11:28] Uni Ninetails: :P~

[11:28] Pamela McNally: oohhh cool then that's win foor us:)

[11:29] Carrie Easterman: Jack, can you tell us how tickets for the land swap will be handled, originally we were told we would get like-for-like parcels, but now you're saying it's first come first served.. can you assure us our new parcels will be of the same type, or might the best parcels all be taken by ppl who ticket first?

[11:29] Jack Linden: Aww Marianne, sorry if you didn't hey Mole status, we do keep hiring but obviously solution provider status and mole roles have very different criteria

[11:29] Qie Niangao: Melodie: Good topic. Seems the microparcel conversions have hit a snag.

[11:29] Renzo Goodliffe: [15:45] Blondin Linden: [15:38] Renzo Goodliffe: Blondin, will Fetishwear and Bondage-wear be still allowed in Mature regions on not ? I guess they are already unwelcome in PG, but isn't that typically the kind of stuff that is not adult content by itself and fit into mature ? ANSWER: Are you asking if people can wear it on mature sims? Sure, why not? Can they sell it? Sure, if they dont use Adult keywords.

[11:29] Laica Forcella: want abourt selling furniture with sexposse in

[11:29] Marianne McCann: A win? been that way for some time

[11:29] Khannea Suntzu: Sorry one of the freqyuent crashes I have been having. Can someone notecard me Jacks reply I missed?

[11:30] Jack Linden: melodie, i'll run that query now.. and shout out when i get a number. :)

[11:30] Melodie Darwin: ty

[11:30] Morgaine Dinova: Well pretty much all social clothing is bondage wear, so hard to see how an exception could be made just because some item is not conventional.

[11:30] Uni Ninetails: where out resident dragons btw... no one here to keep jack in line

[11:30] xstorm Radek: Pamela McNally i think you can have a dead body av and no one will care

[11:30] Pamela McNally: lo

[11:30] Pamela McNally: lol

[11:30] Jack Linden: Carrie, you'll be asked to choose 3 parcels you would be happy with. And how that plays out will be first come first served (no other sensible way to do it)

[11:31] Jack Linden: So you'd need to go look and file your ticket.. but there is lots of space and lots of coastline

[11:31] Morgaine Dinova: xstorm: that's because "dead" implies violence, and violence is warmly embraced by puritans.

[11:31] TumbleWeed Loopen: what??? What if I get stuck with another large popular club???

[11:31] xstorm Radek: true

[11:31] Uni Ninetails: youll lag out before you go into the red

[11:31] Carrie Easterman: so you will give waterfront parcels to anyone who requests, regardless of their current parcels, as long as they are early enough?

[11:31] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, can you change "Zindra" name for "Zuzana", that really sounds more like adult content

[11:32] Jas Constantine: i hate this "if one person complains the world stops" mentality...

[11:32] Marianne McCann: Renzo - how about Zima?

[11:32] Jack Linden: Carrie, there just isn't a practical way for us to review every single parcel and try to match against that. We'd never get through the migration process

[11:32] TumbleWeed Loopen: So there WONT be "Careful con sideration" regarding who is sharing sims?

[11:32] Jack Linden: And many people don't want the same kind of land

[11:32] Renzo Goodliffe: Anything is more sexy than "Zindra", Marrianne

[11:33] Jack Linden: Tumbleweed, there is lots of Linden land so we'll try to keep the regions from being overused

[11:33] Ciaran Laval: You should have sold this policy Jack, you'd have got your wishes eventually.

[11:33] Marianne McCann: Renzo - so then how about "waste recycling center?"

[11:33] Marianne McCann winks

[11:33] Dennis Lagan: 90% of the residents have no clue what mainland continent that are walking on, its not a big issue lol

[11:33] Khannea Suntzu: Jack, to be honest, you need to make this fundamental paradigm shift in SL palatable to people with established interests, and LL is making an omission here. I realize as a corporation desperate to go mainstream as LL is, you itch to be taken serious and clean up your "flying penis" image. But in a year you'll have competitors on par with the current engine, if not better. You have to make some fundamental serviuce changes to your package.

[11:33] Jack Linden: Ciaran, what do you mean?

[11:33] TumbleWeed Loopen: My club FILLS a smi, Jack, if I get placed in sharing with a popular place, you have just killed me

[11:33] xstorm Radek: i bet if you called it titsup you will get every new person you ever wish for *GIGGLES* :)

[11:33] Laica Forcella: [11:29] Laica Forcella: want abourt selling furniture with sexposse in

[11:33] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, with has violent content not been given as much focus than sexual content, as Blondin confessed yesterday, when violence is a far more dangerous thing than the natural thing than sex is ?

[11:33] Carrie Easterman: its just we currently border protected ocean sim and it would hardly be fair to lose that option on zindra cos you handed those parcels out to just anybody

[11:34] Jack Linden: Tumbleweed, and as I said, for edge cases that need special consideration we will try hard to work with you

[11:34] Jack Linden: You just need to explain that in your ticket

[11:34] bill Goldberg: good point renzo

[11:34] Ciaran Laval: I mean if you'd enforced community standards on mature land, let people volunteer to move to Ursula or zindra and let the place grwo organically people would have naturlly gravitated there anyway because that's where it would all be happening

[11:34] Khannea Suntzu: Yah and how about kafir religion. I certainly dont wish to experience any non-gnostic unclean religiouis

[11:34] Khannea Suntzu: expressions.

[11:34] TumbleWeed Loopen: Oh sorry, Imissed the above..earlier reply

[11:34] Marianne McCann: Khannea - sounds like you should look into OpenSim then

[11:34] Khannea Suntzu: Once you open the box of exlusion, discrimination, prejudice, po

[11:34] Khannea Suntzu: referenbce

[11:34] TumbleWeed Loopen smiles sheepishly and slinks back a couple steps

[11:35] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, can furnitures with sex posed still be sold in mature malls ? If yes, are demonstration version in free use allowed ?

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: you will not ever be able to close it again

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: I am looking into Blue Nars

[11:35] bill Goldberg: whips out the old push gun in my library

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: Mars

[11:35] Pamela McNally: since when i BSM seen as too violent as to cause it to bemoved to the Adult Zindra

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: Going to work for avatareality next year

[11:35] Jack Linden: Wow renzo, that's a big topic you raise there hehe. i ask the same question whenever I try to watch a film in the US and every strong word is bleeped and love scenes cut but I still get to watch decapitation. :) it's a very complicated issue

[11:35] Pamela McNally: oops is BDSM

[11:35] Marianne McCann: Khannea - You shoulda been here in 2007 then, when my community got rules put on us.

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: I was here in 2005

[11:35] xstorm Radek: well if you can find it under blue nars good luck *GIGGLES* :)

[11:36] Marianne McCann: Missed you at the protests then

[11:36] Marianne McCann grins

[11:36] Khannea Suntzu: I will certainly be able to find whatever I like anyhow

[11:36] Melodie Darwin: What is being done regarding the microbaron holdouts? What date can we expect a change from the stragglers?

[11:36] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, SL would be praised worldwhile if it showed the way to more severity against violence than towards sex

[11:36] Uni Ninetails: sigh i find this bemusing heaven for bd a breast is shown but on national new in america last time i watched it they showed a person burning alive on the news live. never figured the logic.

[11:37] Khannea Suntzu: If you open the box opn

[11:37] Dytska Vieria: most online games are about blowing the heads off of people

[11:37] Qie Niangao: The microparcels: Just shooting Austin in the head would make a lot of people happy for a while.

[11:37] Laica Forcella: Yes , stanges, allow violence but not sex

[11:37] Dytska Vieria votes for shooting Austin

[11:37] Khannea Suntzu: on prejudice and discrtimination in a fewyears you will find anyobody and his dog whining on everything. Or worse, starting lawsuits.

[11:37] lexiza Darwin: so dcs and such are ok to keep where they are

[11:37] Pamela McNally: i thought something that was concidered too violent would be affedted and moved to Zindra

[11:37] xstorm Radek: hold on are you saying you wish to see all the vampires gone and have more sex groups in ?

[11:37] Jack Linden: i think something to keep in mind is that every virtual world service now and upcoming will face the same issues that we have. We're just hitting a lot of them first. Some of those services may take a different route, on some policies. Some will follow us.

[11:37] TumbleWeed Loopen: So whatever happened to the original, sex and violence thing? Just because it's "tricky" to derfine it's suddenly alright

[11:37] Jack Linden: It's going to be really interesting to see how that plays out

[11:38] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, do you aknowledge than the BDSM communauty of SL is a respectable one that contributed a lot to build this world and that so it is unfair and segregationist that the word "BDSM" itself is filtered

[11:38] bill Goldberg: most games aint fun without the odd bit of hack and slash rofl!

[11:38] lexiza Darwin: lol

[11:38] TumbleWeed Loopen: LL shouldnt have mixed maturity level sims, or opened SL up to people with no ID needed in 06, NOW they are trying to fix it

[11:38] Uni Ninetails: its not interesting its horrific cause it relfects current human interraltional society in the so called modern world.

[11:38] xstorm Radek: any way a lot of your sex groups have been killing each other any way

[11:38] Khannea Suntzu: There is only one route, and you know it. Treating Second Life as the internet. Making sure everyone gets a choice. There IS a far better way to do this than the proposed ghettofication. Nex

[11:38] Khannea Suntzu: I applaud any sensibler

[11:39] bill Goldberg: its if theres blood and gore added into it that gets a game its rating

[11:39] Khannea Suntzu: and proactive approach to this. But you are setting yourself up for a nightmare.

[11:39] Jack Linden: Renzo, totally.. it's a great community

[11:39] TumbleWeed Loopen: *Sighs* Violence istricky to define, so its suddenly okay and ignored

[11:40] xstorm Radek: in the end you will need to have adult sims

[11:40] xstorm Radek: and all the new people will pay to get in to them

[11:40] TumbleWeed Loopen: How about people buying mature land without stores or clubs, plans on swapping them?

[11:40] xstorm Radek: its all about income and profit

[11:40] Pamela McNally: BDSM is not about blood gore and violent sex acts BDSM ois something enjoyed inn a consentual basis and has nothing to do with the sex act

[11:40] Laica Forcella: if sex have to go to adult, the violence to

[11:40] Khannea Suntzu: Violence, Sex. Smoking. Right wing politics. Left wing politics. Sims with ana content. Religion. The environment. These are just a few topics people will start whining over.

[11:41] Uni Ninetails: On the other side of the coin. i work on builds in a roleplay sim that has combat. and there is a very close family atmosphere and the violence is no worse than a simple fighting game. and everyone has. *shrugs

[11:41] Khannea Suntzu: You cant win this. This arbitrary divisionism will be gamed to death.

[11:41] Renzo Goodliffe: Thanks Jack, I hope then you'll support my request that non-sexual BDSM keywords be retired from filtering list

[11:41] Pamela McNally: idiots who don't understand BDSM see it as a means to sex but that's not the case

[11:41] Jack Linden: by the way, regarding the micro parcels.. looks like we have about 9400 remaining and still falling.

[11:41] Jas Constantine: we havnt even addressed the LM debackle...

[11:41] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:41] Ciaran Laval: From what number Jack? Is that a 50% reduction?

[11:41] Uni Ninetails: Pamela not idiots. uninformed....

[11:42] Pamela McNally: ty UNi

[11:42] Jas Constantine: there are both uni

[11:42] Dytska Vieria: The original # was around 16000

[11:42] TumbleWeed Loopen: True, I concur on that, some terms under bdsm symbolize a lifestyle

[11:42] Pamela McNally: and i the idiots are the wanna be s or the nut jobs here

[11:42] Jack Linden: Ciaran, i'd need to go pull that but it's dropped by many thousands over the last couple of months

[11:42] xstorm Radek: Pamela McNally you like to call every one idiots whats that saying about how people will think about you ?

[11:42] Ciaran Laval: Right, so getting there slowly but starting to work

[11:42] Marianne McCann: Excellent, Jack

[11:43] Renzo Goodliffe: Pamela sweetie, insulting people who have a different opinion won't help our cause

[11:43] Jack Linden: yeah, I still think we've way to go. I would want us down to about 7500 because that would mean we're getting close to just genuine use

[11:43] Khannea Suntzu: BDSM is but one example. If Linden Lab can be held accountable for the content of its users, ANYONE can sue beause it doesnt like the color red, or politically incorrect content, or satanism, or *anything*. There is a world of people who take offense at even the most petty issues. You are setting yourself up for a disaster.

[11:43] Pamela McNally: i am not talking about the uuninformed xstomed in ma=am referring to the om=nes that are dangerous here

[11:44] Ciaran Laval: They're not setting themselves up for a disaster, they're just implementing the policy in a ridculously disruptive way, one would hope they'd learn from that.

[11:44] Jack Linden: so we've 15 mins left and have talked a fair bit about the Adult continent.. do we have any other land topics?

[11:44] TumbleWeed Loopen: Again, are people who are buying mature land now even, being offered the swap? Do you realize that at the Land Expo, LL sponsored, is hosting a display selling mainland without the information regarding this plan?

[11:44] Carrie Easterman: jack one more question, will you give early notice regarding the exact date & time of opening the ticketing for land swap?

[11:44] Marianne McCann: How's thigns with Bots and Camping, Jack?

[11:44] Equinox Pinion: how is the bot policy going on

[11:44] Ciaran Laval: How much are the prefab sims going to cost?

[11:44] Uni Ninetails: Whats the status of bot stuff and land cutting? general update?

[11:45] Melodie Darwin: when can we expect a change in the microbaron holdouts?

[11:45] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, did you have any return from your investors about the e-mail I sent them to explain how desastrous and unpopular the conception and implementation was so far ?

[11:45] xstorm Radek: read up on history Pamela McNally like the bdtk thats what some may think of and the bad side is there are groups in sl doing just that

[11:45] Khannea Suntzu: Tumble, Linden Lab is lipsmacking a bigger client base, and they can do that, absolutely. And they feel the breath of competitors down their necks. They *need* to implement whatever it takes to "clean up" the flying penis image. But there are far better, for more proactive, far more ambitous ways to anticipate on the future.

[11:45] Uni Ninetails: Oh tell us and add humility to the end of every sentence *chuckles and wonder show many will get that joke

[11:46] Renzo Goodliffe: conception and implementation of the ACF ,I mean

[11:46] Khannea Suntzu: Its a defensive and scared corporate strategy

[11:46] TumbleWeed Loopen frowns in thought

[11:46] Pamela McNally: know hon and we're not like that at all

[11:46] Jack Linden: Carrie, I believe that we're blogging very soon, today or tomorrow, about Zindra opening

[11:46] TumbleWeed Loopen: What client base is that?

[11:46] Jack Linden: I've just seen that fly by. hehe

[11:46] Khannea Suntzu: Lotus SameTime for a start

[11:46] Carrie Easterman: okay thank you jack :)

[11:47] Jas Constantine: so we cant go look at land yet?

[11:47] Jack Linden: Not quite yet Jas, but very very soon

[11:47] Khannea Suntzu: IBM

[11:47] xstorm Radek: so setting rules will be hard for LL in any way they try to setup good working rules

[11:47] Pamela McNally: people like SlaveMaster and BTK are the ones that make it tougher on us to understand and accept both here and in rl though there is a lot of mainstream onfdage these days

[11:47] xstorm Radek: there will be some that do not like the rules

[11:48] Pamela McNally: in rl why do we still get it here in SL

[11:48] Khannea Suntzu: In ten years time half a billion people *MIGHT* be using a derivative linden client as a 3D personal computing desktop. Thats a LOT of revenues. But if LL fucks up at this stage we will be having a microsoft 3D desktop.

[11:48] Wynochee LeShelle: Jack, is pick camping a target too, to fight the traffic gaming? I mean these systems where avatrs get money for having shops in thier picks, and for which they have to tp to the locations to earn the L$ from the system

[11:49] Jack Linden: Wynochee, I expect that in time the Search team will evolve search in ways that will make Pick gaming if not obsolete, at least extremely unproductive.

[11:49] Wynochee LeShelle: ok;-)

[11:49] Pamela McNally: why is the BDSM community being targetedJack/

[11:49] 2ndNuno Merlin: omg is this an emergency meeting?

[11:49] Uni Ninetails: no

[11:50] 2ndNuno Merlin: why not?

[11:50] Uni Ninetails: just a regular scheduled meeting

[11:50] Pamela McNally: why do we have to locete to theZindra?

[11:50] xstorm Radek: did the BDSM get target it seems every one did in some way *GIGGLES* :)

[11:50] Jack Linden: the BDSM community is not being targeted at all. we're making a change to where adult content and services live

[11:51] Uni Ninetails: Some prude higher up the chain doesnt like "naughty things" both sexual, non sexual and violent. Ad has passed law as such plus it makes SL more squeaky clean to draw in the folks lost to the sims 3.

[11:51] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:52] Pamela McNally: then why do clubs that are BDSM oriented have to move?

[11:52] xstorm Radek: they must not be a fury then

[11:52] Jas Constantine: gamers blowing people away dont emberass LL as much as BDSM does so naturally we are targeted first... and the gamers all pay lots of lindens to play those destructive games...

[11:52] Uni Ninetails: Pfft try being a fury and into BDSM finding a good gag isnt easy :P~

[11:52] Marianne McCann: A Plymouth Fury?

[11:52] xstorm Radek: oh hold on furrys can be nude

[11:53] Pamela McNally: Jas i can't agree more

[11:53] Khannea Suntzu: I can take my sculpty letters and create a sign that is intensely rude by US standards. But the phrase itself wouldnt raise an eyelash in the netherlands. Ooops.

[11:53] Uni Ninetails: See theres an intersting one. at the moment if i stripped my AV skin has no naughty bits. its furred over. someone will take offence to it cause my overal body shape is human

[11:53] Khannea Suntzu: Get your high grade cannabis here

[11:53] lexiza Darwin: wouldent it have been better to move the under 18s and any adults should be able to read and know if they want to go to places its not like places dont have discriptions in them or is this a pr excercise to see how strong people really feel about the way sl should be

[11:54] Nova Foxclaw: I'm nacked. Any one have a snake sweater?

[11:54] Pamela McNally: are we giving LL a black eye Jack? that we have to move and the ultr-violent players don't have to move

[11:54] lexiza Darwin: noone has to go anywere they are not forced too

[11:54] Jas Constantine: carving a hole in the existing client base and pissing them off isnt a smart thing at all

[11:54] 2ndNuno Merlin: lol

[11:54] Khannea Suntzu: No. Linden labn

[11:54] Khannea Suntzu: needs the current client base.

[11:54] Khannea Suntzu: Desperately

[11:55] Ciaran Laval: If you search for freebies in PG content you shouldn't be faced by orgy rooms is what it's largely about so LL are letting orgy rooms advertise to people who want that content

[11:55] Khannea Suntzu: They need to somehow upgh

[11:55] Uni Ninetails: Erm i was making point about a rp sim that was pg now being mature. hes lost a large player base cause of that.

[11:55] Renzo Goodliffe: JAck, I think you missed that question : [11:35] Renzo Goodliffe: Jack, can furnitures with sex posed still be sold in mature malls ? If yes, are demonstration version in free use allowed ?

[11:55] Khannea Suntzu: upgrade the service to make it more appealing

[11:55] Pamela McNally: violwnce was the one thing mentioned in the irst announcement now your telling us violenbce is ok and BDSM has to go to the Ghetto

[11:55] Jack Linden: pamela,not at all. this is just a business decision that we feel we need to make. nothing about this is down to us liking one group or not liking another.

[11:55] xstorm Radek: not true all the people that show blood and rl photos of dead people will have to be moved to adult sims to

[11:55] xstorm Radek: plus it will smell better

[11:56] xstorm Radek: ;-)

[11:56] Marianne McCann: XStorm - all the patchouli and musk?

[11:56] Pamela McNally: ;)

[11:56] Jas Constantine: yep, all buisiness, no thought of who it effects or how, just show then ovver... and you laughed when i mentioned hitler and the jews.. he did the same damn thing... the parrallel is very real

[11:56] xstorm Radek: yes may be that too lol

[11:57] Marianne McCann: Hitler sent all the jews to another sim. Yes, what an apt comparison

[11:57] Marianne McCann rolls her eyes

[11:57] Qie Niangao: good lord

[11:57] Ciaran Laval: Comparing Linden Lab's absurd policies to the holocaust is ridiculous and insulting

[11:57] Equinox Pinion: Jas...geeez how can you campare that!!

[11:57] Dytska Vieria: agrees

[11:57] Renzo Goodliffe: A godwin point for Jas, even if thing like her

[11:57] Jack Linden: Renzo, I think the definitions have yet to be fully completed but the line is that commericalised adult content or services, would need to move. if it's not commercial, such as private use, then it's far less of an issue

[11:57] Jas Constantine: not at all, we dont know their final plans for adults

[11:57] Marianne McCann laughs

[11:57] Pamela McNally: yeah, it's like we're being put on an adult Sim because of buible thumpers and the prudes and puruitans that feel BDSM is against God nd country, or so it seems

[11:58] Jas Constantine: i see a huge part of LL carved out for their beliefs and sent else where.. thats how

[11:58] Ciaran Laval: If the decision was being made by Bible thumpers you'd be out of here, not being moved.

[11:58] xstorm Radek: ooohhh nnooo can we have a age check on Pamela McNally ?

[11:58] Uni Ninetails: The thing is if you really have issue vote with your feet. log out and go elsewhere. caveat to that is LL know you wont cause you have vested interests your assets, friends, land etc.

[11:58] Renzo Goodliffe: Well, I'm not sure it's for the Bible-thumpers, maybe it's more for the "big business" who don't like to be exposed to sexual content

[11:59] Pamela McNally: i am age verified :þ---------------

[11:59] Pamela McNally: xstrom

[11:59] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:59] Ciaran Laval: Well people could have helped there if they'd actually listed their adult places as mature content

[11:59] Jas Constantine: i have issue with how what i love is affected so i have to leave? BS!

[11:59] Jack Linden: pamela, it is precisely *because8 we want to support and keep the many varied communities, including the adult ones, that we are doing this rather than just removing it all. In this way we get to allow you to promote, fully, those adult content and services in ways that you couldn't now

[11:59] Renzo Goodliffe: But if you check traffic, "big business" place interest almost nooone when Sex places are at the top of the list

[11:59] Uni Ninetails: Sighs.

[12:00] Renzo Goodliffe: So it's a suicidal business move, you'll have been warned, Jack

[12:00] lexiza Darwin: so sex brings in the money to sl

[12:00] Dytska Vieria: Just like Gambling did...

[12:00] lexiza Darwin: not the pg sims

[12:00] Uni Ninetails: Its not tho cause were all so god damned addicted the could take flexis prim hair amd excite off the grid and wed sit back and take it lol

[12:01] Jack Linden: okay guys, I have to run now. thank you all for coming along!

[12:01] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

[12:01] Marianne McCann: Have fun, Jack!

[12:01] Qie Niangao: thanks, Jack. Enjoy SFO.

[12:01] Uni Ninetails: take care jack dont work to hard

[12:01] Equinox Pinion: take care jack

[12:01] Wynochee LeShelle: thanks Jack

[12:01] Renzo Goodliffe: Thansk for you time, dear Jack

[12:01] xstorm Radek: have a great day Jack

[12:01] Melodie Darwin: thanks Jack

[12:01] Carrie Easterman: thanks jack

[12:01] Uni Ninetails: Pint of Stella and some pork rinds on the table

[12:01] Laica Forcella: take care, and thanks for your time

[12:01] lexiza Darwin: be safe take care

[12:01] Khannea Suntzu: The world is full of people who cant stand each others guts jack. What you need is a new, possible additional land structure, which is surprisingly easy to implement, which will allow you to isolate themed settings, content in a manner that will abundantly satisfy all with a preference.

[12:01] Morgaine Dinova: Changing the world "for business reasons" is not a simple matter of what suits LL though. Remember "Your world, your imagination"? If that's true, then LL "business reasons" should not conflict with OUR world and OUR imagination, they should work together. Unless you're thinking of changing the motto to "Your rented world, US puritan imagination".

[12:02] Marianne McCann: Have fun, all!

[12:02] Jack Linden: byeeee