User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-09-17

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Driftwood Miles: Yes, and called, and another ticket and contacted you

Talarus Luan: Hiyas Qie

Driftwood Miles: LOL Ciaran

Qie Niangao: Hiya, Talarus, everybody

Jack Linden: Driftwood, I've fired a quickl email and asked the Search team. Will get them to respond via your tickets

Driftwood Miles: thanks Jack :)

Timo Daehlie: Jack some meetings ago i asked you if you guys would start a media campaign or something simular in order to pull new members into the game. You gave me a vague answers about secret plans and such. Is there anything more you can tell about it or is it so secret that it will totally change the world ?

Enemy Coba: good afternoon evryone

Alexxa Despres: Hi

Jack Linden: Dennis, we're going a bit uber on that one. I think it'll be well worth the wait.. basically we're working on a set of land related metrics. I don't have details but we are actively working on it now

Jack Linden: We absolutely agree that data is very important.

Enemy Coba: a new campaign is needed

Enemy Coba: fast

Jack Linden: Timo, I wish I had stuff I could throw out to you but sadly I don't. All I can tell you is that we obviously take that seriously and have many plans to drive higher uptake

Charity Colville: I want to commend you on finally seeing some results in regards to the bots issue Jack, but there is still a rather serious exploit. There are clubs, malls, and other venues in Second Life that are loading up with "model bots" to skirt around the bot issue because Linden Labs said that model bots were allowed.

NikoKito Aries: true

Timo Daehlie: so if i ask this question next month i get the same answer ?

Dennis Lagan: ok. thanx. but the communication needs improvement. its already bad if you have to push back something for 5 months, not speaking about it makes things only worse. make a blog post and give us some sneak peaks to make us smile again.

Timo Daehlie: It would be good if you guys be more transparant to us .. maybe we have positive input as well or can make some efforts

Timo Daehlie: vague answers dont bring back trust .,.

Dytska Vieria: input is going out with the forums...

Jack Linden: Charity, you're totally right. We're close now to releasing a way to self identify an account as being a bot. We will then expect Model Bot owners to use that. If they choose to not identify their Models as Bots, or move them to parcels not listed in Search, then we'll consider that to be gaming serarch

Jack Linden: *search

Storyof Oh: this year is has been one piece of bad news after another

Melchizedek Blauvelt: What's stopping you from making pub yourself Timo?

Timo Daehlie: i do Melchi

Charity Colville: If it isn't soon Jack then a limit needs to be set

Enemy Coba: agree

Equinox Pinion: when will that new land sales tool be up were private regions also can post ?

Yohan Pintens: you guys seem to solve problems in the absolutely most backwards way possible

Talarus Luan: The "Tao of Linden" :D

Jack Linden: Timo, Dennis.. it can be tricky timing those sorts of things. In the past we have been given feedback that we left it too late, and sometimes if things are not fully formed people get frustrated if we talk too early. But as soon as we have concrete stuff to show we will

Jack Linden: Equinox, do you mean estates posting Land auctions?

Equinox Pinion: yes

Equinox Pinion: we talked about it months ago

Jack Linden: Right now it's looking like first half of 2010 as we have some more significant stuff to push out ahead of that

Jack Linden: We definitely want to do it

Equinox Pinion: ok thanks

Random Person: what type of significant stuff?

Equinox Pinion: your read my mind random lol

Jack Linden: Random Person, you have a truly great avatar name

Random Person: thanks Jack

Dennis Lagan: i also think that you should come with voluntary tools for estate and parcel owners to control script time better. this would reduce the stress on your systems in a positive way, rather then this "we will force this and that at some point". nearly all estate owners want their sims running smooth, this is important for our image towards our residents, we are nearly all having rules in place and are enforcing them. we would be happy to set up similar rules for script time use in our covenants if we could check and limit it , in contradiction to the mainland where you simply allow anything.

Dytska Vieria: What is to look forward of this significant stuff?

Driftwood Miles: a brand new website?

Sierra Janus: "Null Address" is better :P

Driftwood Miles: oh wait

Equinox Pinion: lol

Timo Daehlie: we need more land

Alexxa Despres: LOL :-P

Alexxa Despres: <<is laughing

Jack Linden: You must hate hearing this.. but I can't talk about the stuff that is coming up in Q4 and new year, suffice to say that there have been some big items for the devs to push on ahead of resident auctions

Talarus Luan: We do? More land to drive the mainland price sub-L$1? :P

Jack Linden: But we totally want to do resident auctions

Ciaran Laval: What's the deal with these themed mainland and private regions that are coming soon?

Equinox Pinion: phew...hope it is not something like the phone service :)

Talarus Luan: It's the rest of the migration to the Flog/Blorum. ;)

Driftwood Miles: lol

Random Person: that is most likely land marketing on behalf of them to appeal to customers who cannot build 3D artwork*

Jack Linden: Dennis, yep.. script resource tools are coming. We're not sure which server deploy with carry it but we'll fairly soon be providing ways to see how much script resource is being used - then we'l be providing tools to manage that

Equinox Pinion: you already can get themed private regions

Qie Niangao: Equinox: it's *exactly* like the phone service. Voice only. No more of this text chat, and the pesky graphics stuff.

Jack Linden: We had to do some tricky code work in the simulators to track script use such that it didn't itself impact performance.

Equinox Pinion: that is really good news is so hard to check scripts at the moment

Dennis Lagan: will it be possible to check this per parcel? thats the most important in a shared environement

Charity Colville: Do you mean the ability to limit the amount of scripts one avatar can operate on your sim?

Jack Linden: Kram, my office hours tend to be fairly freeform

Marianne McCann: Has there been any further movement on dev regarding the Infohub issues, esp. at Hau Koda? Is the "stop gap" still in the works, or just moving streat to fixing the allotment code?

Equinox Pinion: script time charity

Jack Linden: Dennis, yes it will be per parcel

Equinox Pinion: one script can use as much as 1000

Dennis Lagan: ok.

Jack Linden: And also let you see your avatars script cost

Random Person: I think it would also be wise to have an Avatar Rendering Cost limit for a sim, if needed to be used for events that need many avatars

Ciaran Laval: Mari Blondin mention something about the issues at Hau Koda being fixed soon

Enemy Coba: thats better

Random Person: aset by owner

Random Person: set*

Jack Linden: Marianne, we are just going to fix the issues themselves. Not sure when that will make it out though

Talarus Luan: Unfortunately, ARC is a viewer-side calculation atm

Random Person: oh i see

Marianne McCann: Okay. Any "ballpark" or idea that I can pass onto the Docklands folks?

Jack Linden: i would zap the sign but there is a dragon roosting on it

Jack Linden: sorry for the confusion Kram

Talarus Luan: -.-

Enemy Coba: lol

Talarus Luan: I have wings, ya know.

Equinox Pinion: lol

Alexxa Despres: just change auto-return , Jack ;-P

Jack Linden: there we go

Jack Linden: no dragons hurt

Talarus Luan: Uhh OK

Talarus Luan: I'll stand vs becoming merged with your nice faux hardwood floor. :P

Dennis Lagan: will there be an LSL back end provided to check the script time as well, or only client side?

Stickman Ingmann: I hear merging with faux hardwood is rather pleasant.

Jack Linden: Marianne, i don't have even a ballpark or other sporting stadium. Soon as I know I'll mention it here thouhg

Jack Linden: *though

Driftwood Miles: lol

Talarus Luan: Only for the person swinging the tree trunk. :)

Stickman Ingmann: As long as you don't need your legs or anything.

Marianne McCann: Well you know, the LDPW could make you a ballpark...

Marianne McCann giggles

Random Person: can there be such a thing as a SRC, sim rendering cost?

NikoKito Aries: nice idea

Jack Linden: Dennis, not sure yet Dennis, though it would be nice to show Script resource whilst you're working in the script editor

Jack Linden: Maybe after compile

Dennis Lagan: ok

Techwolf Lupindo: The sim renders nothing. Only physics and LSL and "presence".

Stickman Ingmann: Various types of "rendering cost" have been requested. There's a Jira up for "object rendering cost" as well. Brought up at Nyx' office hours.

Jack Linden wonders at the idea of virtual hardwood being 'not faux'

Random Person: as in, the cost it would take to load the prims and textures in an entire sim

Marianne McCann: As real as you want it to be

Driftwood Miles: faux fuax hardwood

Stickman Ingmann: Jack, redundancy is important.

Equinox Pinion: isnt that done localy on your client random?

Jack Linden: object rendering cost would be very nice to have

Random Person: well i was thinking a more user friendly format for even new players to get down with, so they can understand lag concept

Ardy Lay: I measure my own objects by picking them up with the ARC display active. Crude but satisfying.

Yohan Pintens: New players? Where at?\

Talarus Luan: That could add a bit of load to the sim to calculate all the time, unless it was rather simple. But, being rather simple, it might not be very good as a measure.

Qie Niangao: sic Gwyneth on them. By the time she's done, they'll deny having ever mentioned "lag"

Talarus Luan: Hehe

Enemy Coba: the traditional stills the best

Random Person: well it should be a feature that is able to turn off when not in use

Stickman Ingmann: Random, that enters another realm. Efficient content creation rules. Sometimes you need high quality stuff, but still want it to be efficient. "Rendering cost" is an arbitrary number that's unique for every viewer's settings, and even the current LOD.

Techwolf Lupindo: Object ARC can be done client side.

Dytska Vieria: Want to solve the lag problem? Get rid of the Sion Chickens ;)

Random Person: oh ok

Enemy Coba: lol

Dennis Lagan: LOL

Marianne McCann giggles

Driftwood Miles: or the pending wabbits

Techwolf Lupindo: But unfortually, ARC is very IMpreciece.

Jack Linden: wabbits?

Random Person: wabbits lol

Talarus Luan loves chickens.. just requires a lot of them to be anything more than appetizers.

Marianne McCann: Dytska - SL needs a chair of KFCs

Driftwood Miles: Yes the chickens will soon make way for bonking breeding rabbits

Charity Colville: waskelly wabbits

Dennis Lagan: yes, this thinfs are terrible. i would almost add an entry to the covenant which disalows the use of scripts created by SION Labs.

Alexxa Despres: I hear all the rabbits are being classed as KNOW how rabbits are!!!!

Dennis Lagan: ¨*things

NikoKito Aries: ^_o

Dytska Vieria: Had a neighbor with a 512sqm and 20 of them, physics time was 5.0ms

Charity Colville: eeek

Jack Linden: I thought the v12 chickens were a lot better

Talarus Luan: Not that I have seen

Dennis Lagan: better, but stil lterrible

Alexxa Despres: that's what the notecard says ;-P

CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: the collision rates alone are killer

Enemy Coba: some of them are causing a massive lag

Equinox Pinion: they are...but you cannot have 20 on a 512sm plot lol

CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: forget the scripts

Talarus Luan: Collisions are still collisions, no matter the scripting

Dytska Vieria: They had their own estate land and rented MAINLAND to raise the things.

Enemy Coba: need to improve the sculpt tools

Stickman Ingmann remembers the avatar rating system, where you could label people as a bad builder.

Enemy Coba: better then scripts

CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: I had to curtail a resident's breeding and that's what she did too

Driftwood Miles: with a prim bonus of 600% uou can Equinox ;)

Talarus Luan: Well, yah, they didn't want to trash THEIR expensive estate for them. <.<

Jack Linden: Stickman.. showing your age there!

CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: she simply added some mainland holdings and moved them there

Stickman Ingmann: Enemy, mesh tools are better than sculpt tools.

Charity Colville: haha I remember that too Stick

Dennis Lagan: and the plants that grow and create the chicken food are at least as bad. he seem to have the great ability to push a script in every kind of use to its limits.

Jack Linden: Yeah, did you guys see the Mesh stuff at T's SLCC keynote?

Marianne McCann: yups

Jack Linden: Very (very) cool.

Enemy Coba: hi have to try it

Dytska Vieria can't wait for script limits by parcel size

Talarus Luan: Saw some screenies with the Hulk on them

Driftwood Miles: yes the Marvel Comics tm Hulk ;) :P

Marianne McCann: ™©

Driftwood Miles: thanks Marianne :)

Talarus Luan: Yeah, I don't think it was a licensed mesh. :P

Stickman Ingmann: With mesh coming out "soon" (sometime over 6 months) I expect sculpts to get much less love. It makes them obsolete -- though I'm certain LL will continue to maintain them to the point of functionality.

Melchizedek Blauvelt: From what I read about meshes it'll be a revolutionary improvement

Dennis Lagan: if there would be script limits per parcel size they would also need to take the region object bonus in count, and limit this for the total sim use then too, just like it works for prims.

Storyof Oh: yes but what about split land with script concentrated on one area then parkland...

Techwolf Lupindo: THat was a nice demo for creaters that complain about thieft. Looks like LL does thift too. :-)

Dennis Lagan: or eventually make a "Script time bonus"

Enemy Coba: if is to improve its going to make it better

Driftwood Miles: Hulk v Chickens

Talarus Luan: Well, sculpts can still serve a purpose. They are still a small mesh

Marianne McCann: Yes, I suspect that too, Stickmann

Jack Linden: There may still be a valid place for sculpties.. as they are low vertices and for simple stuff they work well

Driftwood Miles: whoever wins meets the wabbits in the final

Stickman Ingmann: Sculpties are 2048 tris at max LOD. If your item only calls for for a shape with rounded edges, and could be done in 20 tris, well... doo bad. You NEED to be inefficient. Until meshes.

Ciaran Laval: Themed mainland Jack? What's the deal there and are you planning on having a separate search system for it as the blurb says to remember to include objects for sale to be included

Alexxa Despres: LOL Drift :-P

Talarus Luan: If Qarl gets around to putting in texture animation for the sculpt texture, you can still do some neat things that you won't be able to do with a mesh

Stickman Ingmann stops pulling the topic down the river.

Stickman Ingmann: Sorry.

Jack Linden: Ciaran.. we're going to be talking a lot more about zoned Mainland actually. It's been so popular and we get asked about it a lot

Marianne McCann: Would be nice ot see Bay City get the rest of it's regions

Jack Linden: But we're also sensitive to not wanting to compete with estates, so we're going to be opening up some feedback sessions on zoning

Techwolf Lupindo: Jack, that a strange comment considering LL have screwed over estates owners in the past.

Equinox Pinion: you mentioned at the USS meeting you will release a document how private estates can join in that project...when will that be released?

Dennis Lagan: maybe just because of that reason he is saying that now Techwolf -lol-

Marianne McCann: Gotta scoot - have fun, all!

Ciaran Laval: I'm talking about this Jack:

Talarus Luan: Ciao Mari

Jack Linden: It's pretty much done Equinox. it's not specific to Blake Sea.. it's some guidance about how communities can work with us on projects

Marianne McCann: Back to the Playa!

Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!

Enemy Coba: bye marianne

Equinox Pinion: ok thanks

Charity Colville: *Next meeting I am gonna bring some football padding for Jack*

Dennis Lagan: and i do think that mainland replacing estates would be bad, what estate owners bring as support to their residents would not be done anymore at all. (lindenlab can not handle this).

Talarus Luan: Nah... he takes punishment well in the flesh.

Dennis Lagan: -ofcourse not all, there are bad ones too-

Jack Linden: that specific page is more about both zoned Mainland and also residents selling 'Land with Content'

Ciaran Laval: Yeah Jack, that's why I was asking about search as it says to include objects for sale so you get included

Jack Linden: because we want to start recognising the difference between buying anempty field (undeveloped land) and buying a castle (developed property)

Enemy Coba: true...

Charity Colville: or a business?

Dennis Lagan: i noticed that page, but the "residents selling land with content" wil lbe a bit misleading. no transfer items can be removed whenever the previous owner likes, and even an empty parcel can be listed, as long as you enable "include objects in sales"

Jack Linden: yeah Ciaran.. so the plan will be to start pulling Land listings into that page if they are 'developed'

Thriller Dancer: Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands

Equinox Pinion: think you have to be carefull what you do in the themed mainland might really hurt some private estate owners including the big ones

Jack Linden: The marketplace team will be talking more about that over time i'm sure

Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

Driftwood Miles: There is a bias in favour of Mainland and it is getting more pronounced. A website that makes it nigh on impossible to navigate to find estate land but that on evey turn promotes mainland. A borked search, more themed mainland. Estates need more support Jack

Talarus Luan: Well, themed mainland can't really compete with the more directly-managed private estates.

Talarus Luan: It is -still- mainland

Talarus Luan: Just "pretty" mainland

Jack Linden: Dennis, we'll be able to check prim counts etc potentially and deal with people deliberately misusing it

Equinox Pinion: agree driftwood

Equinox Pinion: you cannot find the estate listings at xstreet anymore

Equinox Pinion: not sure if they did it on purpose :)

Driftwood Miles: they have gone completely

Qie Niangao can't find anything at xstreet anymore

Jack Linden: Driftwood, we have plans there too. We're going to be bringing in some incentive schemes for estates

Stickman Ingmann: Haha, Qie.

Timo Daehlie: tier is income Kram .. they rather give free land

Jack Linden: We talked alittle about that before but it should start to happen in Q4

Equinox Pinion: can you not change that property sales listing on xstreet really hurts private estates

Jack Linden: Kram, we haven't any plans to change that right now though we are starting to put a lot of thought into building more value into the premium membership with features and perks

Jack Linden: expect more on that later in the year

Driftwood Miles: Hopefully the incentives will be inclusive for all estates and not just for the favoured few :)

Jack Linden: Okay guys, I'm out of time i'm afraid

Jack Linden: Hope today was helpful

Ciaran Laval: Thanks Jack

NikoKito Aries: buenas noches Jack

NikoKito Aries: (es->en) Jack goodnight

Equinox Pinion: take care jack!

Driftwood Miles: Thanks Jack, have a good wek

Dennis Lagan: i also think the "teleport" function for a listed parcel is bad to find now. the word "teleport" doesn't appear anymore, bad for newer residents/ less technically skilled

Storyof Oh: thanks Jack byeee

Brandon Shinobu: Jack, we sent our email to you.

Enemy Coba: see you next week jack

Uni Ninetails: ty Jack

Jack Linden: cheers brandon

NikoKito Aries: thanks very much Jack

Brandon Shinobu: We may send you a second, but the first one contains the mot

Alexxa Despres: Thanks jack ;)

Brandon Shinobu: Thank you for the help Jack

Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.

Brandon Shinobu: I really appreciate it.

Charity Colville: Thank you Jack

Jack Linden: take care all, have a great week!