User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 Jan 24

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Transcript of Zero Linden's office hours:

[8:35] Zha Ewry: Hey Zero
[8:35] Zero Linden: wow - I got a seat!
[8:35] Zha Ewry: Early hours, keep people away
[8:35] Saijanai Kuhn waits for the grid to crash
[8:35] Rex Cronon: hello zero
[8:36] Rex Cronon: don't talk about that. it might happen;)
[8:37] Zero Linden: Right - let's not give the simulator any ideas....
[8:37] Lillie Yifu: simulators can be much mor malicious than that.
[8:39] Tree Kyomoon: quiet group!
[8:39] Zha Ewry: Coffee in short supply
[8:39] Thoys Pan: am i much to late?
[8:39] Rex Cronon: things just started thoys
[8:39] Anthony Reisman is listening politely :-)
[8:39] CodeWarrior Carling: sorry... I raided the coffee while waiting
[8:39] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey thoys happy week or so after y oru bithday
[8:40] Thoys Pan: :D thanks
[8:40] Zero Linden: Ye haww.... okay, let's get going
[8:40] Tree Kyomoon: so I see no one has been posting transcripts :)
[8:40] Zero Linden: so, welcome to my office hours... public... speak freely.....architecture..... coffee references..... etc.
[8:40] Zero Linden: I just formatted that last two months
[8:40] Thoys Pan: oh shit!!
[8:41] Thoys Pan: my coffee
[8:41] Thoys Pan: brb
[8:41] Zero Linden: as in did it in the last 10 min
[8:41] Zero Linden: and JUST put in the link in the wiki
[8:41] Goldie Katsu: Bears?
[8:41] Zero Linden: now I have to upload the text
[8:41] Thoys Pan: i put it on like 2 hours ago ;d
[8:41] Anthony Reisman: Yes, I have been sad about that, no transcripts I usually can't attend :-(
[8:41] Zero Linden: Don't know anything about bears.... they're fuzzy?
[8:41] Zero Linden: So - I have an update about textures over HTTP
[8:41] Goldie Katsu: Depends on the bear.
[8:41] dibbs Dovgal: So some value between 0 and 1?
[8:41] Zha Ewry listens attentively
[8:42] Zero Linden: THoys - now THAT"s the kind of coffee I like!
[8:42] Goldie Katsu hushes and listens
[8:42] Zero Linden: So, turns out ALL the code is done, including throttling
[8:42] Zero Linden: It is both instructive and sad to learn where the bottle necks were
[8:42] Zero Linden: 1) libCURL
[8:42] Zero Linden: 2) libCURL
[8:42] Zero Linden: 3) libCURL
[8:42] Zero Linden: and
[8:43] Zero Linden: 4) libCURL
[8:43] Zha Ewry: Heh
[8:43] Zero Linden: okay, that might be a little harsh -
[8:43] dibbs Dovgal: giggles
[8:43] Shirley Marquez: what does libCURL do?
[8:43] Zha Ewry: Not surprising
[8:43] Saijanai Kuhn once found where 5% of all time in MacOS was being spent: 1 instruction in trap dispatch table
[8:43] Zha Ewry: you're asking CURL to do odd things
[8:43] Zero Linden: but geeze - does libCURL have to re-open and re-read the system config file on every request
[8:43] Rex Cronon: handles url calls?
[8:43] Zero Linden: ?
[8:43] Tree Kyomoon: libCURL apparently CURLs lips
[8:44] Zero Linden: well, no, Zha, libCURL was failing because if we asked it to do, say 2k HTTP requests at once, it ran out of file descriptors!
[8:44] Zha Ewry: So.. this will let a sim handle the http hgets?
[8:44] Zha Ewry: Well, that's outside its job description :-)
[8:44] Zero Linden: Right - we use libCURL in C++ code to do our HTTP client side
[8:44] Zha Ewry: most people use it to fetch dozens of pages
[8:45] Zha Ewry: actually, I'd bet, the 99% use case, is one url at a time
[8:45] Zha Ewry: Some heavier use in things like proxies
[8:45] Zha Ewry: So... 2K, requests. Yeah, that would leave a dent
[8:45] Zero Linden: for almost everything: message system, older distributed messaging system (still used on teleport), long poll in viewer, llHTTPRequest from LSL, connections to the caps server, connections to the new web dataservices (that replace the dataserver)
[8:45] Lillie Yifu: So what will we see from these changes?
[8:45] dibbs Dovgal: So cant you throttle requests
[8:46] Zero Linden: dibbs - that is what we had to do, but we didn't expect libCURL to actually start breaking - just performance to drop
[8:46] Zero Linden: but it starts returning NULL handles for new connections
[8:46] Anthony Reisman: ouch
[8:46] Zero Linden: So, Steve Linden did ALL the good hard work:
[8:47] Saijanai Kuhn: wince. Hello missing IM 's
[8:47] Zero Linden: 1) batch texture requests from the viewer to the sim
[8:47] Zero Linden: 2) batch cap grants from the sim to the caps server
[8:47] Zero Linden: 3) throttle texture cap grants in the sim
[8:47] Zero Linden: 4) wrap libCURL so that when it returns NULL, gracefully return a "try again later" code all the way back to the texture pipeline in the viewer
[8:47] Zha Ewry: Does the batching bundle the gets?
[8:48] Rex Cronon: u seem to endup with quite a few ques
[8:48] Zero Linden: No, batching is only bundling the "I'd like caps to this set of textures" (viewer->sim)
[8:48] Zero Linden: and "please grant caps to this set of URLs fro this agent" (sim->cap server)
[8:48] Zha Ewry: Ah
[8:48] Zha Ewry: Good
[8:48] Tao Takashi: Hi
[8:48] Zero Linden: The actual texture fetches aren't really a concern because
[8:48] Zha Ewry: So, the gets are seperated
[8:48] Zero Linden: 1) they dont' go thorugh our C++ code
[8:48] Rex Cronon: hi
[8:49] Zero Linden: 2) they contain enough data to be effectively self-limiting
[8:49] Zero Linden: Oddly enough, they go through our Python based proxy code, whcih uses a python based HTTP client library (rather thank libCURL)
[8:49] Zero Linden: and THAT seems more resilliant
[8:50] Zero Linden: Folks asked what we will see
[8:50] Zero Linden: well... first, textures will come to the viewer somewhat faster, and certainly more reliably
[8:50] darkcat Catteneo: heey
[8:50] darkcat Catteneo: thijs
[8:50] Zero Linden: but more important, by removing the texturae data transport out of the sim, it reduces the biggest source of stalls in the simulator
[8:50] Anthony Reisman: ETA on seeing on beta grid or normal grid?
[8:51] darkcat Catteneo: lol
[8:51] darkcat Catteneo: hi all
[8:51] Saijanai Kuhn: cool. Was wondering about how large textures affected teh rest of the comms
[8:51] Zero Linden: and secondarily, it reduces the memory footprint of the simulator - which in turn should reduce the number of times we see simulator processes thrashing due to Vm use
[8:51] Rex Cronon: hi
[8:52] Zero Linden: Steve says Q2 is when that will go into testing in prep. for ship
[8:52] Saijanai Kuhn: will this affect IM in any way?
[8:52] Zero Linden: the code is all done, but we are constrained right now in both the number of thigns that we can push through testing
[8:52] Shirley Marquez: will this all mean a required viewer upgrade when it happens?
[8:52] Anthony Reisman: internal testing, or user testing?
[8:52] Saijanai Kuhn is still trying for tha tQA job...
[8:53] Zero Linden: and Steve wisely doesn't want to put a project into testing until he can devote the developer time to be ready to fix things as they find them
[8:53] Saijanai Kuhn: well, hoping for it, at least
[8:53] Anthony Reisman: Sounds like a good idea.
[8:53] Zero Linden: Software projects are not like light-weight threads: If you put them on hold, there is significant costs to putting them abck in the run-queue
[8:54] Zook Caproni: hey yall
[8:54] Zero Linden: No, not requried upgrade: The sim will support the old way for quite some time
[8:54] Rex Cronon: hi
[8:54] Zero Linden: But to get the advantage on yoru vieweer, you'd need to upgrade
[8:54] dibbs Dovgal: And is there a point when tis will allow us to paint an http web page oas a texture onto a prim?
[8:54] Anthony Reisman: :-) absolutely. High cost of task switching.
[8:54] Saijanai Kuhn: Zero do they expect any impact on teh IM issues?
[8:54] Zook Caproni: haahah why are ppple doin this
[8:55] Zero Linden: Sai - other than general overall simulator performance, I don't think the two are directly related
[8:55] Saijanai Kuhn: Zook this is a technical discussion ofhow SecondLife works at theprogrammer level
[8:56] Saijanai Kuhn: You guys edge up on concurrency, then something breaks IM again and it bounces back down
[8:56] Saijanai Kuhn: inch* up...
[8:56] Zha Ewry: Rats. Ghosted there
[8:56] Zha Ewry: Zero.. is the texture get http, or https?
[8:57] Zero Linden: Zha, for now, it is https: ... and if you and I are on different sims but viewering the same texture, then we'll get ti from different hosts
[8:57] Zero Linden: Which, yes, isn't externally cacheable
[8:57] Zero Linden: BUT
[8:57] Saijanai Kuhn: is there animpact on the throughput from the encryt/decrypt of https?
[8:57] Zero Linden: the machinery in the viewer doesn't change a wit if we got to http: and a canoncial URL for each texture
[8:57] Dahlia Trimble: do texture downloads go through the sims, or come directly from the asset servers?
[8:57] Saijanai Kuhn: which is why SLProxy works at all
[8:58] Zero Linden: Sai - the overhaed of https: is a "fart in a whirlwind" compared to the decompressing the texture itself
[8:58] Tao Takashi: but it all adds up ;-)
[8:58] Zero Linden: Dahlia - right now, from the simulator process directly
[8:58] Saijanai Kuhn: KK, so the only issue with be caching/proxying https vs http
[8:58] Dahlia Trimble: do the sims cache the textures?
[8:58] Zero Linden: Tao - we are still seeing an over all spead up, despite the change to TCP, HTTP, and HTTPS
[8:59] Tao Takashi: I am not saying it will be slower
[8:59] Zero Linden: Now, we can't currently put our asset cluster on the intranet
[8:59] Zero Linden: it has no way of known which asssets should be served to the outside world, and which shouldn't
[9:00] Zero Linden: so to do a simple, cacheable, canonical URL for each texture
[9:00] Zero Linden: we'd need to put a proxy in front of it
[9:00] Zero Linden: the proxy on the outside world would take some URL
[9:00] CodeWarrior Carling: did you mean to say you can't put them on the inter-net?
[9:00] Zero Linden: transform it, and then present to the asset cluster, restricting to,say, only images
[9:00] Zero Linden: this is fine, but then we need to build this proxy as a cluster with a load balancer
[9:01] Zero Linden: whereas right now, in the HTTP texture design, there is basically a cluter of r4k machines (the simulator hosts)
[9:01] Zero Linden: that are doing this work -
[9:01] Zero Linden: yes, sorry, intERnet
[9:02] Zha Ewry: Right.. tho.. oddly
[9:02] CodeWarrior Carling: so in a way.. the sim now are also performing.. sort of a security function
[9:02] Zero Linden: yes, they are
[9:02] Zha Ewry: you're doing sort of enforced load spreafing too
[9:03] Zha Ewry: And a big http texture server farm, while eminitely doable, and very much bog standard web stuff, is still a big thing to put up
[9:04] Anthony Reisman: I've been out of the loop due to transcript lag, I noticed that Periapse put something up on the wiki on mono, is that still on track for beta grid testing at end of the month (or is this wrong time to ask)? That should improve simulator performance too right (70 times)?
[9:04] Zero Linden: Zha - exactly why we aren't doing that step at the same time
[9:04] Zha Ewry nods
[9:04] Zero Linden: Yes - mono is still on track as far as I know
[9:04] Zha Ewry: Two quick logistics question, Zero?
[9:04] CodeWarrior Carling: will the texture change affect uploads as well as downloads?
[9:04] Anthony Reisman: kk, thanks!
[9:04] Zero Linden: and while it improves script performance (sometimes as much as 70x)
[9:05] Zero Linden: remember that scripts are only a fraction of the simulator
[9:05] Zha Ewry: Have you updated the google csalendar, and your easel, with the new schedule?
[9:05] Zero Linden: so, it isn't like the sim is going to get 70x faster
[9:05] Zha Ewry: (for Tuesdays)
[9:05] Zha Ewry: and.. have we got any target for the next AWG F2F?
[9:05] Squeebee Wakawaka: I think scripts are the fraction of the simulator most of the people here are interested in.
[9:05] Rex Cronon: what new schedule?
[9:05] Gearsawe Stonecutter: but other things now kill script time.
[9:05] Anthony Reisman: Ok, I wasn't sure what the current sim load for scripts generally is.
[9:05] Zha Ewry: Err. I mean thursday
[9:06] Zha Ewry: I think you still show this at 7:30
[9:06] Gearsawe Stonecutter: why to sculpted prim animated objects take up more script time that a box with the same script in it?
[9:06] Saijanai Kuhn missed soemthing: new schedule? Or is it just the 8:30 change?
[9:06] Zha Ewry: the 8:30 change
[9:07] Zha Ewry: Last I looked, it was still 7:30 on the easel, and on the google calendar
[9:07] dibbs Dovgal: Well knowing how much textures can eat up sim performance this is of course interesting to us as well
[9:07] Zero Linden: oh - my bad - okay 8:30 change will go in
[9:07] Zero Linden: Now if that easel were just served from HTTP....
[9:08] Saijanai Kuhn chants svg on a prim. Svg on a prim...
[9:08] Tao Takashi wants the web media stuff to show up ;-)
[9:08] Zha Ewry: Chuckle Saij
[9:08] Zha Ewry: and..
[9:08] Rex Cronon joins sai:)
[9:08] Zero Linden: Now, for example, right now script time in this sim is 13.0ms of 17.3ms total
[9:08] Zha Ewry: the f2f?
[9:08] Zero Linden: so, scripts would be good
[9:08] Zero Linden: Ah, I don't have more infoon f2f
[9:08] Zha Ewry: Okies
[9:08] Zha Ewry: Just a gentle prod
[9:09] Zero Linden: I take it folks here still want to do one this Quarter?
[9:09] Zha Ewry nods
[9:09] Lillie Yifu: Would be nice
[9:09] rotation demo (11 joint) 003 v.20070930.a: Left click the base cube to start/stop the demo
[9:09] Tao Takashi: I don't really care. I would first see some progress actually ;_)
[9:09] Rex Cronon: but i also want lsl script functions that can dynamically manipulate svg images:)
[9:09] CodeWarrior Carling: oooo... starts chanting SVG on a prim as well
[9:09] Goldie Katsu: f2f?
[9:09] Tao Takashi: face 2 face meeting
[9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: with some hybrid inorld precence for thsoe of us wit no travel money
[9:10] Goldie Katsu: tnx
[9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: hybrid inworld* presence
[9:10] Tree Kyomoon: yes, f2f is totally anti-SL
[9:10] Tree Kyomoon: would be good to *make it work* using SL
[9:10] Goldie Katsu: You can have hybrid meetings. (Going to one tonight)
[9:10] Tao Takashi: not really, being just in-world when others meet is just a little uncool ;-)
[9:10] Lillie Yifu: Will mono improve http time, or is that mostly going to come from the libCURL changes
[9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: common enough, but requires setup
[9:11] Tree Kyomoon: my experience in hybrid meetings is the SL folks get sidelined
[9:11] Tao Takashi: but maybe sound can be improved on or some video can be provided
[9:11] Zero Linden: Well- I've been in hybrid meetings that have the RL folks be sidelined!
[9:11] Tao Takashi: yes, you cannot that simply raise your voice in SL
[9:11] Saijanai Kuhn: Tree, better than reading chatlogs 2 month later
[9:11] Goldie Katsu: Well in the Serious SL the majority of the meeting is equal for both.
[9:11] Zero Linden: Well - should we have a f2f in world??
[9:11] Squeebee Wakawaka thought we were having one right now.
[9:11] Saijanai Kuhn: f2f + inworld
[9:11] Zha Ewry: At some point, tho, being able to scrible on white boards and such, is pretty important
[9:11] Goldie Katsu: But then it is a directed get together, not just social.
[9:11] Zero Linden: in otherwords, a more structured, longer meeting here, rather than burning the petro-fuels?
[9:11] Tao Takashi: As it will be quite far and expensive for me I'd rather like a meeting completely in-world
[9:12] Rex Cronon: is the next project sl-video chat?
[9:12] Tree Kyomoon: exactly zero. we should eat our own dogfood
[9:12] CodeWarrior Carling: perhaps just having the meeting outside of most peoples working hours would work.. like on a weekend
[9:12] Tao Takashi: at least sound quality would be equally good/bad ;-)
[9:13] Zero Linden: so - is there a shared white board app/website that is good? we can just run it on the side
[9:13] Goldie Katsu realizes she isn't even wearing her headphones and wouldn't know if anyone was speaking.
[9:13] Tao Takashi: I think the main purpose of such a meeting is a more concentrated and longer period of working on the topic
[9:13] Saijanai Kuhn: could have inworld meetings quarterly and f2f semi-annually
[9:13] Anthony Reisman: I saw a web based on on a GE website that was pretty good.
[9:14] Lillie Yifu: I've used it yes
[9:14] Zero Linden: uhm, and yes, such an inworld meeting would be voice
[9:14] Saijanai Kuhn: or some other combination of periods
[9:14] Zha Ewry: I don't see any reason not to try it, but I will observe, tht with the best of support and intention, it's not nearly the same as being able to share a whiteboard
[9:15] Tree Kyomoon: we need to fix SL so that we wouldnt even consider an RL meeting
[9:15] Zero Linden: So far, that has been my impression with whiteboards so far
[9:15] Anthony Reisman: Sorry, the GE website I remember had some flash based whiteboard that was shareable.
[9:15] Squeebee Wakawaka: Not sure you can create a virtual experience so great that you would never think of RL.
[9:15] Saijanai Kuhn: long-term goal: to make RL meetings optional rather than required
[9:15] Tao Takashi: but those in-world cannot really share it anyway
[9:16] Anthony Reisman: Or if you want I can set you up with our inworld whiteboard, but it may not be the best if there are alot of attendees.
[9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: true whiteboards require P2P I think
[9:16] Lillie Yifu: hmmmm we are using one that uses the wiimote and skype
[9:17] Zero Linden: again - when we code here at LL - we are in world w/voice, and using some external shared app. like "screen"
[9:17] Lillie Yifu: but it is only free for up to 10 people
[9:17] Goldie Katsu: as long as the coordination and communication is there inworld whiteboarding (or side app whiteboarding) should work.
[9:18] Zha Ewry: Better than not, but.. I've done tons of meeting swith shared whiteboards, good voice, and such, and it's an order of magnitiude or two less productive than RL.
[9:19] Goldie Katsu: I think part of that is due so the communication skills we have in the virtual environment with fewer body cues and such.
[9:19] Tree Kyomoon: Well, one thing about SL is it helps give a voice to the less "confident" members of a meeting
[9:19] Zero Linden: oka - well, I'll take this all back to Rob and Liana and get a concrete proposal
[9:19] Tree Kyomoon: which is why I prefer textchat over voice as well
[9:19] Anthony Reisman: Our inworld whiteboard can't do freehand though, and that might be a barrier, and it requires use of the media stream which might also be a barrier for this meeting. If you want to use it, I can just give you a copy.
[9:19] Tao Takashi: Zha: but being in-world when other meet in RL also did not feel that productive to me
[9:19] Tao Takashi: at least from my side
[9:20] Zha Ewry: Well, we didn't have a great setup, for that, I think. And.. for what it's worth, it wasn't easy to follow you, from the RL room
[9:20] Rex Cronon: tree, if somebody isn't a blabber mouth that doesn't meant that person isn't confident
[9:20] Tree Kyomoon: yes, rex, I was trying to think of a euphemism for blabbermouth
[9:20] Tree Kyomoon: :)
[9:20] Zero Linden: So noted: if we can't make the mixed reality even be much smoother and equal - then we won't do it this time
[9:21] Rex Cronon: lol
[9:21] Tree Kyomoon: I think having LCD panels instead of a projector would ahve been good, plus keeping the lights lower
[9:22] Goldie Katsu: And more coffee
[9:22] Saijanai Kuhn: well if its a choice between doing it "well" vs not doing it at all...
[9:22] Tree Kyomoon: like a 70" LCD or plasma screen should be in every board room at Linden labs :)
[9:22] Zha Ewry: LOL
[9:22] Goldie Katsu: Mixed reality is something that I think is still being refined.
[9:22] Zha Ewry: Its very tricky
[9:22] Saijanai Kuhn: that wall screen in CSI where they watched SL
[9:22] Zha Ewry: And.. one problem with it
[9:22] Zha Ewry: is that the people in the room, weren't in world
[9:23] Goldie Katsu: Too bad you can't do that extended meeting table where one side is in world and one side is physical.
[9:23] Tree Kyomoon: mo cap with bots to put us in world would have been awesome
[9:23] Saijanai Kuhn: awsomely expensive?
[9:23] Anthony Reisman gave you Collab Tool Package 1.7.
[9:23] Tao Takashi: for me a screen in SL would be more important ;_)
[9:23] Wyn Galbraith's son has done mocap
[9:24] Zha Ewry: One could do a webcam into the room and play it via quicktime
[9:24] Zero Linden: On another "organizational" topic
[9:24] Saijanai Kuhn: doable. ANd the other way as well
[9:24] Zero Linden: I've got most of the missing transcripts up
[9:24] Zha Ewry: Maybe build a meeting space with one wall of that for the aves
[9:24] Saijanai Kuhn: grats, Zero
[9:24] Zha Ewry: Ooh. Transcripsts! Yeah!
[9:24] Zero Linden: but I'm wondering, does anyone here do summaries of the discussion?
[9:24] Goldie Katsu: It would be good to have.
[9:25] Tao Takashi: except for my post about capabilities, no
[9:25] Saijanai Kuhn: I've got a pointer to Groupie, chats, + Zero's, Which's and Open Sim chats
[9:25] Tao Takashi: but that was more a summary of several office hours
[9:25] Saijanai Kuhn: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies#Chat_Logs
[9:25] Goldie Katsu: Maybe it would be a good way to review the minutes, which I need to do anyway
[9:25] Tree Kyomoon: I only summarize the stuff about HTTPrequest and cookies (plug plug)
[9:25] Zero Linden: okay, I think that we need sort of a table of contents for each session
[9:25] Saijanai Kuhn: trying to make thegroupies page a one-stop shopping page to get to related topics of interest
[9:26] Zero Linden: not the content of the dsicussion summarize, just like "on 15 Jan we talked about CAPS, then domains, then HTTP textures"
[9:26] Tao Takashi: sort of a list of tags
[9:26] Tree Kyomoon: can we search JUST the transcripts by keyword?
[9:26] dibbs Dovgal: Then maybe an anchor to that location in teh transcript
[9:26] Goldie Katsu: So a table of contents that summerizes or one with links to the contents being referenced?
[9:26] Tao Takashi has to go
[9:26] Tao Takashi: cya later!
[9:26] dibbs Dovgal: bfn
[9:26] Tree Kyomoon: ciao tao
[9:26] CodeWarrior Carling: re: mocap - http://www.moven.com/en/home_moven.php
[9:26] Zero Linden: Tree - you can, they are in the wiki - but I suspect searching for, say HTTP Texture would be rather difficult
[9:26] Rex Cronon: bye tao
[9:27] Tao Takashi: check out some nice snow videos on http://mrtopf.de/blog :-)
[9:27] Tao Takashi: we have fun here in the snow
[9:27] Tao Takashi: anyway, cya!
[9:27] Goldie Katsu: Cya Tao
[9:27] Tree Kyomoon: if only there was some AI parsing program that could reorganize the transcripts by subject
[9:28] Saijanai Kuhn: its called a human
[9:28] Zero Linden: Ah yes,... where is that AI anyway?
[9:28] Rex Cronon: right:)
[9:28] Todd Anatine: hi
[9:29] Rex Cronon: btw, why r sculpties in limbo?
[9:29] Rex Cronon: hi
[9:29] Anthony Reisman: alice.org, but all it does it talk to you and take up time :-)
[9:29] Zero Linden: er, limbo? how are sculpties in limbo?
[9:29] Saijanai Kuhn: If we DO decide to do something inworld, we should talk to 57 miles about setting things up. He's had plenty of experience getting the Dr Dobbs lectures done
[9:29] Goldie Katsu: So on the sumarry - do you want a summary of topics, a table of contents that indicates what is in the transcript, a table of contents with links to topic locations or all of the above?
[9:29] Todd Anatine: you look hot
[9:29] Tree Kyomoon: they still are all rough and inaccurate...plus have lame physics
[9:29] Squeebee Wakawaka: Thanks Todd, glad somebody noticed.
[9:30] Zero Linden: well - I think those might be properties by their very nature, eh?
[9:30] Saijanai Kuhn: Rex isn't that a questio for Qarl and/or Andrew?
[9:30] Rex Cronon: the upload is borked, and qarl hasn't had any office hours in few weedk
[9:30] Gearsawe Stonecutter: I would love to have a way to have Havok ignore physics for the sculpt reason alone
[9:30] Rex Cronon: weeeks*
[9:30] Zero Linden: It is - but I'll mention it at my meeting with the Studio directors that starts in ..... well.... now!
[9:30] Zero Linden: well, all, thanks for coming
[9:30] Zha Ewry: Thanks Zero
[9:31] Jason Swain: Thank you Zero
[9:31] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks Zero.
[9:31] Gearsawe Stonecutter: the kill script time
[9:31] Saijanai Kuhn: say hi to the other Directors, Zero
[9:31] Tree Kyomoon: thanks zero!
[9:31] Zero Linden: Till next week!
[9:31] Squeebee Wakawaka: TTFN
[9:31] Anthony Reisman: adios!
[9:31] Rex Cronon: bye zero