User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 Feb 21

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  • [8:34] Rex Cronon: hi wyn
  • [8:34] Wyn Galbraith: Hey Bones!
  • [8:34] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Tree
  • [8:34] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
  • [8:34] Wyn Galbraith: Who's Stella?
  • [8:34] Tree Kyomoon: Hi winnie and morgaine :)
  • [8:34] Tree Kyomoon: www.stellasongs.com
  • [8:34] Morgaine Dinova: Hey Tree's sprouted some decoration!
  • [8:35] Wyn Galbraith: What a cutie
  • [8:35] Wyn Galbraith: I'll have to check her out.
  • [8:35] Tree Kyomoon: /she's a brazillian Japanese new age electronica artist
  • [8:35] Tree Kyomoon: seems like everyone is these days
  • [8:36] Wyn Galbraith: She's very pretty too.
  • [8:37] Wyn Galbraith: Has her own island I see
  • [8:37] Lalinda Lovell: is he here yet?
  • [8:38] Lazarus Longstaff: Hi Neas :D
  • [8:38] Feynt Mistral: Morning folks.
  • [8:38] Neas Bade: hey Laz
  • [8:38] Rex Cronon: hi
  • [8:38] TheBlack Box: what a crowd ... hi all ... hi Cel !
  • [8:38] Tree Kyomoon: here he comes
  • [8:38] Cel Edman: Hi there people
  • [8:39] Rex Cronon: hi
  • [8:39] Feynt Mistral: This place filled up fast. >D
  • [8:39] Lazarus Longstaff: it's like the american presidential election - suddenly everyone gives a sh*t
  • [8:39] Saijanai Kuhn: spam R us
  • [8:39] Lazarus Longstaff:  ;)
  • [8:39] Lalinda Lovell: its weird being the only woman here
  • [8:39] Feynt Mistral: >D
  • [8:40] Feynt Mistral: As in actual woman, or female avatar? >D
  • [8:40] Rex Cronon: look around
  • [8:40] Lalinda Lovell: as in rl woman
  • [8:40] Wyn Galbraith: I'm a RL woman
  • [8:40] Tree Kyomoon: theres a few women here
  • [8:40] Zero Linden: appologies
  • [8:40] Wyn Galbraith: is female to the bone of her RL self.
  • [8:40] Wyn Galbraith: Hey Zero.
  • [8:40] Lalinda Lovell: zero, why is at least one coder being paid to work on this for you?
  • [8:40] Lazarus Longstaff: Hey, it's Zero!
  • [8:40] Tree Kyomoon: helo zero
  • [8:40] Morgaine Dinova: 'Morning Zero
  • [8:40] Zero Linden: still recovering from last night's very late (for me) live-grid debugging
  • [8:40] Neas Bade: morning zero
  • [8:41] Zha Ewry: Morning Zero
  • [8:41] Feynt Mistral: Woot.
  • [8:41] Lalinda Lovell: can we know how many are getting paid and why
  • [8:41] Lalinda Lovell: (please dont ban me for knowing)
  • [8:42] Zero Linden: Lalinda - this is a technical architecture office hour. If you wish to know about Linden Lab's work force, you should contact our HR department
  • [8:42] Lalinda Lovell: but they are getting paid for working on this
  • [8:42] Lalinda Lovell: so i thought it was relevant
  • [8:42] Zero Linden: "this"?
  • [8:42] Lalinda Lovell: yes
  • [8:42] Drew Dwi: points at the pixels xD
  • [8:42] Rex Cronon: just crashed:(
  • [8:43] Zero Linden: Future architecture? Yes. Would you think it reasonable to ask Intel how many engineers are working on some future processor?
  • [8:43] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: got a good technical topic for us today? :-)
  • [8:43] Lalinda Lovell: yes i would
  • [8:43] Feynt Mistral: I've got just one question really, Zero. Several of us were talking to Babbage yesterday and were curious how the puppeteering project is progressing, since there hasn't been any discussion on that in a while.
  • [8:43] Lazarus Longstaff: Lalinda: give the man a break
  • [8:43] Feynt Mistral: Babbage couldn't answer, not being part of the SF group, and suggested we ask someone from North America. >D
  • [8:43] Lalinda Lovell: if its against the rules to mention that some people are working here and DO NOT get paid, yet others do work and DO get paid
  • [8:44] Lalinda Lovell: then i wont mention it
  • [8:44] Lalinda Lovell: just that i know some people have worked for the same cause and got paid nothing
  • [8:44] Lalinda Lovell: didnt seem a fair balance
  • [8:44] Lazarus Longstaff: I'm not complaining
  • [8:44] Lalinda Lovell: ok sorry
  • [8:44] Lazarus Longstaff: WHat's on the agenda today Zero?
  • [8:45] Feynt Mistral: believes we've divided Zero. >)
  • [8:45] Nany Kayo: hahahaha!
  • [8:45] Lazarus Longstaff: chuckles
  • [8:45] Lazarus Longstaff: that way lies madness ;P
  • [8:45] Wyn Galbraith: Divide by Zero is illegal.
  • [8:45] Nany Kayo: so?
  • [8:46] Opensource Obscure: so we wait until he logs in again.
  • [8:46] Feynt Mistral: Signs of life. >)
  • [8:46] Nadine Neddings: Does anyone know how to juggle or tap dance in the interim? >.>
  • [8:47] Morgaine Dinova: Tree can really make those bones shake ;-)
  • [8:47] Nany Kayo: this is a neat place. I like this little hangout
  • [8:47] Nadine Neddings: laughs at Morgaine
  • [8:47] Cel Edman: *smiles*
  • [8:47] Zero Linden: Well - let's see here....
  • [8:48] Tree Kyomoon: was off at coffeee....my bones are burning
  • [8:48] Zero Linden: I spent last ngith saving 521 regions' simstates....
  • [8:48] Zero Linden: so a little frazzled
  • [8:48] Morgaine Dinova: This play would really look good with some bongos on the carpet, Feynman style :-)
  • [8:48] Nadine Neddings: So you need a double-dose of caffeine today, Zero?
  • [8:48] Zero Linden: I haven't been deep in grid debugging in a while
  • [8:48] Zero Linden: yes
  • [8:48] Nadine Neddings: Poor guy. :(
  • [8:48] Feynt Mistral: Or a nap.
  • [8:48] Wyn Galbraith: feels Zero's pain.
  • [8:48] Nany Kayo: its good for you
  • [8:49] Nadine Neddings: nah, caffeine wins out over napping every time. :D
  • [8:49] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: I'd love to hear some semi-technical stories about your grid debugging :-)
  • [8:49] Feynt Mistral: Nonsense, napping feels good.
  • [8:49] Feynt Mistral: And it makes your coworkers jealous to see a hammock strung across your office space. >)
  • [8:49] Zero Linden: Well, this one didn't, in the end have much of an architectural bent
  • [8:50] Morgaine Dinova: No bent architecture? /me giggles
  • [8:50] Nany Kayo: what was going on?
  • [8:50] Zero Linden: but it did bring up the amazing sequence that your sim-states take to get auto-saved
  • [8:50] Rex Cronon: the server decided to eat sims?
  • [8:50] Nany Kayo: dont say things like that
  • [8:51] Zero Linden: forked sim writes sim state w/binary LLSDs --(pipe)--> memmory buffer --(pipe)--> binary to XML LLSD conversion --(pipe)--> gzip > file, then HTTP PUT file, write DB, delete file
  • [8:51] Zero Linden:  !
  • [8:52] Feynt Mistral: The extra L makes it special drugs? >)
  • [8:52] Nadine Neddings: shakes her head at Feynt, subduing a chuckle.
  • [8:52] Zero Linden: The bug was that binary LLSD de-serialization was broken in the case of reading from a pipe
  • [8:52] Zero Linden: and that was the only place in the system to use that case
  • [8:52] Zha Ewry: Gah.
  • [8:52] Zha Ewry: Too many paths
  • [8:52] Lalinda Lovell: i am gonna go before the LL mafia bury me under a bridge
  • [8:52] Morgaine Dinova: Not a transaction, I assume. There's no rollback possible, since the sim can't be revived if it's going down.
  • [8:53] Zero Linden: right, so you'd think
  • [8:53] Nadine Neddings: ((oh good, a warm seat on the couch for me!))
  • [8:53] Zero Linden: forked sim writes sim state w/XML LLSD to file, HTTP PUT file, write DB, delete file
  • [8:53] Zero Linden: would be the way
  • [8:53] Wyn Galbraith: sorries but has to run.
  • [8:53] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Wyn
  • [8:53] Zha Ewry: Laters wyn
  • [8:53] Rex Cronon: bye wyn
  • [8:53] Wyn Galbraith: I'll catch up on the log, Seya all, byebye
  • [8:53] Feynt Mistral: Night Wyn.
  • [8:53] Tree Kyomoon: bye wyn
  • [8:53] Tree Kyomoon:  :)
  • [8:55] Saijanai Kuhn: for the newbies: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LLSD
  • [8:55] Nadine Neddings: <-- definitely qualifies as a newbie...thanks. ;)
  • [8:55] Zero Linden: but, when running a huge grid, it often turns out the work it takes to do the above chain is worth it - and in this case, it does
  • [8:56] Morgaine Dinova: Relevant here because the sim is serializing binary state for storage.
  • [8:57] Zero Linden: Actually, I think the prim objective was to get the forked sim over with as soon as possible -
  • [8:57] Zha Ewry: So that you were up agains as soon as possible?
  • [8:57] Tree Kyomoon: /wearing a fork for illustrative purposes
  • [8:57] Morgaine Dinova: In SL-NG, the state shouldn't be serialized for storage though, but serialized for process migration to another grid node. Sims should never go down logically, only physically on nodes.
  • [8:57] Zero Linden: tree - you crack me up!
  • [8:58] Nadine Neddings: sheesh. LOL
  • [8:58] Venus Jervil: Hello all!
  • [8:58] Rex Cronon: hi
  • [8:58] Zero Linden: First day I was ever in SL: I made a Marx Brothers movie reference and immediatly another AV hands me groucho glasses
  • [8:58] Zero Linden: It kind of sealed the deal for me!
  • [8:59] Nadine Neddings: hehehe
  • [8:59] Tree Kyomoon: /its like living in a cartoon!
  • [8:59] Feynt Mistral: >)
  • [8:59] Morgaine Dinova: This venue should be organized as a round table of philosophers sitting around dishes of pasta, with a shared fork between each pair.
  • [8:59] Morgaine Dinova: Would be topical too :-)
  • [8:59] Zero Linden: Morgain - alas, the state of physic simulation engines is that they all crash sometimes
  • [8:59] Nadine Neddings: yar it is, if only I could cancel my RL account now.
  • [8:59] Saijanai Kuhn: The Dining Philitines Problem?
  • [8:59] Zero Linden: so the sim *is* going to crash, realistically
  • [8:59] Saijanai Kuhn: Phlistines*
  • [8:59] Venus Jervil: I mentioned wishing I had a hat on, and someone gave me a box of hats! I was charmed, and new this was a world full of dreamewrs like me
  • [9:00] Zha Ewry: sighs
  • [9:00] Zha Ewry: And drop state to the last good checkpoint, unless one does logging and suich
  • [9:00] Morgaine Dinova: Aye, I cut my teeth on Dining Philosophers, hehe
  • [9:00] Zha Ewry: Mind you
  • [9:00] Rex Cronon: tree, the intersting thing, is that i only see the bones from your right foot, and the fork is stuck in your thigh
  • [9:00] Zha Ewry: Keeping logs, and then finding them and replaying them
  • [9:00] Zero Linden: Of course, I think we should enable simulators to take different approaches
  • [9:00] Zha Ewry: wuld be non trivial
  • [9:01] Tree Kyomoon: /yes the shared experience is still not perfect
  • [9:01] Zero Linden: Some code bases could be based on journals, others checkpoints (like ours), and yet others on serialized process states
  • [9:01] Zero Linden: Though, with the exception of Smalltalk, I don't know any other system with serialized process states that you can rely exclusively on (meaning don't need checkpoints or journals to fall back on)
  • [9:01] Lazarus Longstaff: Zero: does one approach off significant technical advantages over the others?
  • [9:02] Lazarus Longstaff: *offer
  • [9:02] Zero Linden: Lax. - I think it depends highly on the uses a set of regions are being put to
  • [9:02] Zha Ewry: Static builds, would be fine on checkpoints, especialyl if one can fire one off
  • [9:02] Zha Ewry: Highly dynamic regions
  • [9:03] Zero Linden: Frankly, there are far more use cases that LL can ever hope to support well....
  • [9:03] Zha Ewry: Logs, would probably rock
  • [9:03] Zero Linden: This is why building an open platform is only way to make SL, and virtual worlds, bigger --
  • [9:03] Zha Ewry: And.. One thing which is really interesting, is that, in both cases, letting residents have some control
  • [9:03] Zha Ewry: would be incredibly useful
  • [9:03] Zha Ewry: As in
  • [9:03] Zero Linden: we have to enable an ecology around SL that supports other people building parts of the virtual world that suppor other uses, other needs
  • [9:03] Zha Ewry: "Make this parcel totally no-mod"
  • [9:04] Morgaine Dinova: Well AWG is about scalability, so the most important factor about those methods is how they scale.
  • [9:04] Zero Linden: one such axis of choice is simulator persistence strategy
  • [9:04] Zha Ewry: so, that the simulator doesn't have to keep checkpointing known static stuff
  • [9:04] Zero Linden: Morgain - more than scalability - also openness
  • [9:04] Tree Kyomoon: all LL has to do is make the platform open and accessible, and let the rezzies take care of the use cases
  • [9:04] Lazarus Longstaff: there's a process that has to be followed to get there though
  • [9:05] Zero Linden: That would be the plan - we already see that Open Sim has a very different persistence model for regions than LL's simulator
  • [9:05] Zha Ewry: nods
  • [9:05] Zha Ewry: And is likely to have several more over time
  • [9:05] Lazarus Longstaff: and that process is as yet unmapped, as far as we, the great unwashed, are aware *winks*
  • [9:05] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: an open, non-scalable solution is pointless though, we're not here to design a non-scalable system :-) Openness is a given now, anyway.
  • [9:06] Zero Linden: I'm pretty sure we want to make sure the protocols remain agnostic with respect to the implementation choices of simulator writers
  • [9:06] Tree Kyomoon: anyone know how Hipihi does it?
  • [9:07] Neas Bade: morgaine, well open means you can write your own :)
  • [9:07] Zero Linden: Morgain - absolutely - scalable and open
  • [9:08] Zha Ewry: Scalable, means we make sure thast nothing we do in the protocol prevents people from building scalable systems, as best we can judge
  • [9:08] Zero Linden: but we don't need to agree here on how simstates should be persisted, only that we know our protocols enable a range of options, and we suspect that many of those options are scalble
  • [9:08] Zha Ewry: Scalable, being a lovely non-functional requirement
  • [9:08] Morgaine Dinova: Define protocols without prescribing implementations, it's the recipe for interop. LL isn't opening its server side after all, just its protocols, so that would appear to be our focus here.
  • [9:08] Zero Linden: Tree - I don't know anything about HiPiHi internals....
  • [9:08] Saijanai Kuhn: by definition, undefined...
  • [9:08] Lazarus Longstaff: actually its a better scenario than opening the code
  • [9:08] Zero Linden: ....though I'd love to see them come here....
  • [9:09] Zero Linden: wonders what time it is in Bejing
  • [9:09] Lazarus Longstaff: ostensibly, the purpose in opening the code would be to expose the protocols
  • [9:09] Tree Kyomoon: would be great to see what kinds of things they have come up with in terms of innovation
  • [9:09] Saijanai Kuhn: late at night, Zero
  • [9:09] Zha Ewry: Protocols, defined merely by code, doesn't get you interop
  • [9:09] Lazarus Longstaff: but it would taint engineering efforts by other devs
  • [9:09] Zha Ewry: It gets you a way to make two sets of code work
  • [9:09] Lazarus Longstaff: far better to share good doc on the protocols
  • [9:09] Zha Ewry: but doesn't help you define the protocol
  • [9:10] Zha Ewry: Right Lazarus
  • [9:10] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: or am I wrong? Do you see us as working on an OPEN *implementation* of LL's grid? Not just open protocols, but open server code? (Real question, I don't know the answer)
  • [9:10] Zha Ewry: Spec, and test harnesses and validation codes
  • [9:10] Zero Linden: I'm all for rigorous protocol specs.
  • [9:10] Zha Ewry: smiles
  • [9:10] Zha Ewry: And I'm all for validation code
  • [9:10] Zha Ewry: and test harnesses
  • [9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: glances at the crap he's working on. O well
  • [9:10] Zero Linden: And against operational semantics (the meaning of the protocol is what *this* referenence implementation does)
  • [9:11] Zha Ewry: "Here is an endpoint, which you can call and send the following test messages to"
  • [9:11] Zha Ewry: Right
  • [9:11] Zha Ewry: The spec, has to be more important than a ref impl
  • [9:11] Zha Ewry: because, Ref Impl, will have bugs
  • [9:11] Saijanai Kuhn: contemplates the Mystery that is EventQueueGet...
  • [9:11] Lazarus Longstaff: Zero, if I may go back to your comment about smalltalk earlier for a sec
  • [9:11] Morgaine Dinova: LOL Sai
  • [9:12] Lazarus Longstaff: would you say that Erlang fails to meet that serialization requirement? (assumes you are familiar with Erlang)
  • [9:12] Neas Bade: Zha: specs have lots of bugs as well
  • [9:12] Neas Bade: and you have a much harder time writing unit tests for specs
  • [9:12] Zero Linden: Sai - I'm working on getting that stuff freed.....
  • [9:12] Zha Ewry: nods
  • [9:12] Morgaine Dinova: Lazarus: Erlang does it *far* better than smalltalk
  • [9:12] Zha Ewry: why you do both
  • [9:12] Zero Linden: Oh, Laz, you are probably right about Erlang - onlly I don't know first hand
  • [9:12] Saijanai Kuhn: I'm working on quasi-reverse engineering it. Which is looking at my group IM scripts when he gets a chance
  • [9:12] Neas Bade: Having tried to implement a few specs that had no reference code, it turned out that a good 20% was just not possible
  • [9:13] Tao Takashi: Hi
  • [9:13] Zero Linden: I remember going to the 10th year birthday of the small talk main process in the early eighties
  • [9:13] Zero Linden: that runing process is still alive today, serialized into every squeak image
  • [9:14] Tao Takashi: so what's the topic today?
  • [9:14] Lazarus Longstaff: nice :)
  • [9:14] Rex Cronon: hi tao
  • [9:14] Zero Linden: whoops, read mid-eighties
  • [9:14] Tao Takashi: ah Squeak ;-)
  • [9:14] Tao Takashi: Mr Kay in his EuroPython keynote 2 years ago talked about squeak quite a bit ;-)
  • [9:14] AlexanderThe Benelli: Hi @all, looks like I'm a "bit" late, **** traffic
  • [9:14] Zero Linden: Tao - random noodling on account of my last night's grid debugging....
  • [9:14] Morgaine Dinova: I used to use Smalltalk as a PDL for my students. They hated it, lol. The trouble is they had learned C before Smalltalk, and it corrupted their programming minds.
  • [9:15] Zero Linden: (props to Tess Linden too, we debugged it as a team)
  • [9:15] Rex Cronon: hi
  • [9:15] Lazarus Longstaff: can imagine it might
  • [9:15] Zero Linden: (well, and about a dozen monkeys, ops folks, etc.....)
  • [9:15] Zero Linden: (Long gone are the days when you could single handedly repair the grid.....)
  • [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: watches blood dripping from his arm. Stupid 1/4 wildcat
  • [9:16] Tao Takashi: (regarding the OLPC that was)
  • [9:17] Nany Kayo: thanks Zero!
  • [9:18] Morgaine Dinova: In principle, fixing the entire grid ought to be no harder than fixing one sim ... they're identical after all, so commands can be applied to the whole set at once. (In principle, I said :P)
  • [9:18] Zero Linden: No longer - Het-Grid!
  • [9:18] Morgaine Dinova: Isn't the "het" just parametrization data?
  • [9:19] Tree Kyomoon: aha the disadvantage of "multiculturallism"
  • [9:19] Tao Takashi: yeah, I noticed those nice popups saying that some sim runs a different version
  • [9:19] Zero Linden: and copying out a fix to indentical machines is one thing when it is 20 mahcines and quite another when it is several thousand hosts in multiple colos
  • [9:19] Tao Takashi: but I am not sure many people can do something with that message actually
  • [9:19] Zero Linden: Morgain - No, the Het is different builds of the code base
  • [9:20] Morgaine Dinova: (map funcToFixSim listOfSims)
  • [9:20] Morgaine Dinova:  :P
  • [9:20] Zero Linden: well, if you click on it (fie that it goes away) you are supposed to get a HTML floater about what is different in the region
  • [9:20] Zero Linden: but so far I've only seen generic messages there... which annoys me
  • [9:20] Zha Ewry: All I want is the version number
  • [9:20] Zha Ewry: which is now harder and harder to find
  • [9:21] Zero Linden: Contrary to what you might think, the sim is *not* written in emacs
  • [9:21] Lazarus Longstaff: LoL
  • [9:21] Morgaine Dinova: Awww :-( They're your bug then
  • [9:21] Lazarus Longstaff: Help->About Secondlife?
  • [9:21] Zero Linden: Exactly
  • [9:21] Zha Ewry: Well, sure
  • [9:22] Morgaine Dinova: recalls the xkcd cartoon with the butterflies and emacs ...
  • [9:22] Zha Ewry: but.. what i want, is just, 30 seconds, to see that it's the new Havook, or whatever
  • [9:22] Zero Linden: <3's xkcd
  • [9:23] Takashi Tedeschi: hehe
  • [9:23] Neas Bade:  :)
  • [9:23] Zero Linden: Zha - it would be nice if we put a human readable feature string in there...
  • [9:23] Zero Linden: remembers when we put in the Gestalt call at Apple
  • [9:23] Neas Bade: speaking of which, the moment someone puts in emacs bindings to the lsl editor, I'll be a happy camper :)
  • [9:23] Zha Ewry: Well, sure Zero
  • [9:23] Saijanai Kuhn: how about a topline section: sim feature/notes
  • [9:24] Saijanai Kuhn: limited to less than 128 8chars
  • [9:24] Tao Takashi: or ads ;-) "This version of Havok is brought to you by ..."
  • [9:24] Zha Ewry: Ideally
  • [9:24] Zha Ewry: I'd like the delta
  • [9:24] Morgaine Dinova: In the absence of an answer to my question earlier, I'm going to assume that the *openness* to which we were referring is about PROTOCOLS exclusively, and that we're not specifically working on open code for LL's servers. (Although that's not precluded of course, but it's not the overt task in hand)
  • [9:24] Zha Ewry: "You have moved to a new region, with different X, running version Y"
  • [9:24] Saijanai Kuhn: well, AWG is targetting protocols. Open server code is LL's ball exclusively
  • [9:25] Zha Ewry: Well, that and OpenSim
  • [9:25] Zero Linden: Sorry, M, must have missed it
  • [9:25] Tao Takashi: Morgaine: As I understand it it's about the protocols, yes
  • [9:25] Zha Ewry: which will likely try and stay close in sync
  • [9:25] Tao Takashi: beside that LL needs to work themselves on an open source version of their servers ;-)
  • [9:25] Zero Linden: Yes, by openness, I refer to the protocols -
  • [9:26] Morgaine Dinova: Cool, it's as we figured then. But there's little point in talking about openness then, since we can't and wouldn't define closed protocols in this forum. It becomes a bit of a "Doh" :-)
  • [9:26] Zero Linden: Opening the sim code base (making it GPL, say) is another ball of wax
  • [9:26] Zero Linden: and a big ball it is
  • [9:27] Zero Linden: realize that the sim code base itself isn't useful on its own
  • [9:27] Zero Linden: we have a huge back end infrastructure to which that sim talks
  • [9:27] Tao Takashi: but I guess you first want to have that distributed structure in place anyway, is that right?
  • [9:27] Morgaine Dinova: Sounds like IBM's ball of wax in opening the OS/2 code, which can't happen either ... very hairy ball.
  • [9:27] Zero Linden: And really, if I gave you our sim code base today, you'd need a small army of ops folks to set up a backend to work with it
  • [9:28] Zero Linden: Well, even if I gave you docs for all the internal, sim <--> backend protocols, you'd still probably not want it
  • [9:28] Tree Kyomoon: Ibm's hairy ball?
  • [9:28] Tao Takashi: it does not come with a handy installer= :)
  • [9:28] Tao Takashi:  ?
  • [9:28] Zero Linden: becuase the backend for running twenty or a hundred sims
  • [9:28] Kurt Stringer: gotta run, bye all
  • [9:29] Zero Linden: will want to be very different than one for 16k sims
  • [9:29] Rex Cronon: i could be that not everybody want to see the sim code, they just want to be able to communicate with the sims
  • [9:29] Morgaine Dinova: I think from our perspective here the main interest was just in specific source files, to help us figure out what the hell is happening at the network interface :-)
  • [9:29] Rex Cronon: bye kurt
  • [9:30] Takashi Tedeschi: or have control and back up of their creations
  • [9:30] Morgaine Dinova: Sai and others have been pulling their hair out ... and at this rate Sai can't have much hair left ;-)
  • [9:30] Tao Takashi: he should adjust his avatar every meeting ;-)
  • [9:30] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
  • [9:31] Rex Cronon: is already possible to save your creations to your computer
  • [9:31] Zero Linden: I'm working on trying to get some of that out..... Sorry I can't just whip it out ofmy pocket.
  • [9:31] Zha Ewry: Well, I hope, Morgaine, that the next iteration will be far more
  • [9:31] Zha Ewry: docuemnted
  • [9:31] Takashi Tedeschi: yea i know
  • [9:31] Zero Linden: Welll all, must go to 9:30 studio director's meeting
  • [9:31] Zha Ewry: Did you look at what Tess and Periapse have shared on Login?
  • [9:31] Zero Linden: thanks for coming
  • [9:31] Saijanai Kuhn: and whatever I'm doing with group IM hsa pointed out a bug in the server code
  • [9:31] Nadine Neddings: Thanks, Zero. :)
  • [9:31] Tao Takashi: btw, what is the state of the caps server open source project? :-)
  • [9:31] Tree Kyomoon: thanks Zero!
  • [9:31] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Zero
  • [9:31] Zha Ewry: /Thanks Zero
  • [9:31] Cel Edman: thanks
  • [9:31] Zero Linden: ditto, Tao!
  • [9:31] Takashi Tedeschi: but not things that you have bought only things you have made
  • [9:31] Zero Linden: same Jira
  • [9:31] Tree Kyomoon: I'll post the log :)