User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 September 09

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  • [12:59] Arednuwa Jun: So is everyone here waiting to talk to Zero?
  • [12:59] Morgaine Dinova: Wb Zha. Nice holiday?
  • [12:59] Xugu Madison: yup
  • [12:59] Zha Ewry: Very
  • [12:59] Morgaine Dinova: Gratz :-)
  • [12:59] Zha Ewry: And Paris, Lyon, Venice, Florence...
  • [12:59] Morgaine Dinova: Wow ...
  • [12:59] Shenlei Flasheart: /ao off
  • [12:59] Zha Ewry: Followed by a chaser of LAX jetlag
  • [13:00] Morgaine Dinova: Yummy chaser ;-P
  • [13:00] Xugu Madison: If I disappear suddenly, it's because the advancing darkness (powercut) has eaten me
  • [13:00] Morgaine Dinova: What place is most vivid in your mind from the tour?
  • [13:01] Morgaine Dinova: Xugu: uh oh, The Darkness ...
  • [13:01] Xugu Madison: I'm feeling dumb. Network is meant to be on UPS, but haven't quite got the cabling sorted
  • [13:01] pogan Palianta: hi again
  • [13:03] Zha Ewry: Oh. that's easy. Venice
  • [13:03] Morgaine Dinova: You like old sunken concrete? (:P)
  • [13:05] Zha Ewry: I like ancient mysterious places dripping with decadence ;-)
  • [13:05] Morgaine Dinova: Nice pic
  • [13:05] Morgaine Dinova: Very artistic
  • [13:05] Zha Ewry: Thanks.
  • [13:05] Teravus Ousley: Hello everyone
  • [13:05] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Tera
  • [13:05] Zha Ewry: whole flickrt of them, if you can figure out where to look;-)
  • [13:05] Shenlei Flasheart: Hi Teravus...os meeting done?
  • [13:06] Morgaine Dinova: Righto
  • [13:06] Teravus Ousley: well it's over time.. if it's not :D
  • [13:06] Shenlei Flasheart: smiles
  • [13:06] Morgaine Dinova: Might as well start our own topic, since 6 mins late
  • [13:06] Zha Ewry: Hey shen...
  • [13:06] Morgaine Dinova: Or think up agenda points
  • [13:06] Shenlei Flasheart: hi Zha....
  • [13:07] Teravus Ousley: Hey Zero
  • [13:07] Zha Ewry: too late, Zero's here ;-)
  • [13:07] Morgaine Dinova: 'Morning Zero
  • [13:07] pogan Palianta: Can i ask who is common in SL Scripting ?
  • [13:07] Zero Linden: OMG - vacation photos?
  • [13:07] Zha Ewry: Moring Zero
  • [13:07] Zha Ewry: Just the one ;-)
  • [13:08] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe. I suggest we move to Zha's land after this and discuss Venice :-)
  • [13:08] Zha Ewry: chuckles
  • [13:08] Teravus Ousley: Don't take a dip in the canals.. though
  • [13:08] Shenlei Flasheart: The fish don't bite.
  • [13:08] Shenlei Flasheart: yet.
  • [13:08] Arednuwa Jun: common in SL Scripting?
  • [13:08] Zha Ewry: Not unless you're some sort of cratur eout of lovecraft
  • [13:08] Teravus Ousley: no.. but the water does..
  • [13:08] Zha Ewry: (in RL Venice at least)
  • [13:09] Infinity Linden: Venice has shoggoth?
  • [13:09] Zha Ewry: It sure looks like it should
  • [13:09] Teravus Ousley: well, lets just say the water isn't.. very clear
  • [13:09] Teravus Ousley: .. and has some kind of an odor..
  • [13:09] pogan Palianta: Starwars man ; )
  • [13:09] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
  • [13:09] pogan Palianta: helo
  • [13:09] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Rex
  • [13:09] Tara5 Oh: hi there!
  • [13:09] Rex Cronon: hiii
  • [13:09] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Tara
  • [13:10] Zha Ewry: Zero, I want to post a topic for the next meeting... or two out...
  • [13:10] Zha Ewry: We had a pretty long discussion at AWGroupies this morning about discovery, and I was making the fairly strong statement that we have
  • [13:11] Tara5 Oh: If anyone missed LA and want to hear more from our favorite blond I have the sound up from our panel hehe [1] [2]
  • [13:11] Zha Ewry: DNS and URLs, and we don't need to do Discovery beyond what the web does today
  • [13:11] Zha Ewry: and anyone who had a usecase that says we do, ought to speak up ;-)
  • [13:12] Zero Linden: Ah - this is the do we need some form of service directory discovery -- like WSDL (shudder) or XRDS or XRDS-simple
  • [13:12] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: not reinventing wheels is always a good policy, when possible, and when the old wheel still turns.
  • [13:12] Zha Ewry: So, I thought we might give people a little lead time.. and put it on the agenda here
  • [13:12] Zha Ewry: and flatten it once and for all
  • [13:13] Zha Ewry: There's some searchish stuff, just like the web, where you might need to get the URL to Joe's Asset server, or Phil's agent domain
  • [13:13] Zha Ewry: but at the componenty level, I'm pretty sure its URLs all the way down.
  • [13:13] Morgaine Dinova: And URLs are faster than turtles
  • [13:14] Zha Ewry: (This has implications on *what* we need to establish trust between, and what we need to have for references to services
  • [13:14] Zha Ewry: (90% caps, and 10% well known URLs to get caps)
  • [13:14] Infinity Linden: turtles are faster than URLs at my house
  • [13:14] Morgaine Dinova: Hehehe Infinity :-)
  • [13:14] Zha Ewry: orders dark fiber for Infinity
  • [13:16] Zha Ewry: (See what happens when I get away for a while? I type twice as fast and get three times as opinionated)
  • [13:16] Shenlei Flasheart: snorts
  • [13:16] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: how about knocking up a wiki pro/cons page on that topic, so we can make the design decision explicit?
  • [13:17] Zha Ewry: nods
  • [13:17] Zha Ewry: Will do
  • [13:17] Zha Ewry: I need to get back to putting content on the wiki
  • [13:17] Zero Linden: the only case I have a hankerin' for in the arena is that given a seed cap....
  • [13:17] Zero Linden: currently you just have to ask for a resource class to see if it is supported
  • [13:18] Morgaine Dinova: Wiki is ideal for that kind of pro/cons assessment, because it meanders slowly towards consensus and provides a historical record of design reasoning, which dialogue doesn't.
  • [13:18] Zero Linden: there is the idea that maybe we want a way to ask the seed cap --- can you list for me the resource classes you'd offer me?
  • [13:18] Zero Linden: (or you might offer me)
  • [13:18] Zero Linden: but then we're hanging two functions on a single URL....
  • [13:18] Teravus Ousley: a will offer.. vs did offer?
  • [13:18] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: those "resource classes" ... are they Zha's REST nouns?
  • [13:18] Zero Linden: will
  • [13:19] Zero Linden: yes
  • [13:19] Zero Linden: yes, Morgain - they are the REST nouns
  • [13:19] Infinity Linden: so... introspection on resources?
  • [13:19] Morgaine Dinova: Super
  • [13:19] Zero Linden: now..... that all said
  • [13:19] Zha Ewry: Beware
  • [13:19] Zha Ewry: mutters WSDL, WSRF, OGF, and other viles phrases such as UDDI
  • [13:20] Zero Linden: I could see that in someone's XRDS data hanging out behind some web page, we may want a standard XRDS tag for the service "here is my public region cap"
  • [13:20] Teravus Ousley: implements a microsoft web service.. that automatically generates WSDL..
  • [13:20] Infinity Linden: faints at the mention of so many four letter words
  • [13:20] Zero Linden: and "here is my agent domain public cap"
  • [13:20] Xugu Madison: Zha, some of us had to do that stuff for YEARS, please don't joke about bringing it back
  • [13:20] Zha Ewry: I said "BEWARE"
  • [13:20] Teravus Ousley:  :D
  • [13:20] Zero Linden: Zha - is that some black-magic incantation....?
  • [13:21] Infinity Linden: is waiting for someone to mention CORBA
  • [13:21] Zha Ewry: So far, 90% of anything beyond very simple "I offer this named service" introspection has been a disaster for coders,a nd of remarkably little use
  • [13:21] Infinity Linden: +1 Zha
  • [13:22] Xugu Madison: Personally, I like SRV records
  • [13:22] Graph Weymann: from what I've seen, it's because anything less trivial needs a human to either (a) match up requirements to service, or (b) write glue code
  • [13:22] Zero Linden: Right - so something like WSDL -- which is intended for automated systems to figure out how to map functions on to WS endpoints.... is huge, complicated, and doesn't serve us much purpose
  • [13:22] Zha Ewry: +1 Graph
  • [13:22] Zha Ewry: You don't get much leverage beyond "Public Caps Endpoint"
  • [13:23] Zero Linden: On the other end, things like XRDS -- which intends to allow a bridge between URLs for pages intended for humans, and URLs for services intended for processes
  • [13:23] Zero Linden: seems like a good thing... but not something that OGP itself would make use of
  • [13:23] Zha Ewry: Because a human still has to understand the semantics, and a single token, with versioniing is enough to do
  • [13:23] Zha Ewry: that
  • [13:23] And Clawtooth: helllo pogan. thanks for saying hi!
  • [13:24] Teravus Ousley: any news on the status of the next revision of the OGP protocol?
  • [13:24] Infinity Linden: looks at her shoes
  • [13:25] Infinity Linden: doesn't make eye contact
  • [13:25] Teravus Ousley: looks at Infinity's shoes
  • [13:25] Infinity Linden: but seriously
  • [13:25] Xugu Madison: looks at Teravus' shoes
  • [13:25] Teravus Ousley: has shoes?
  • [13:25] Infinity Linden: we're "very close" it seems
  • [13:25] Zha Ewry: checks infinities shoes
  • [13:26] Morgaine Dinova: stares at Infinibear's shoes
  • [13:26] Zha Ewry: Nice kicks
  • [13:26] Infinity Linden: I would like to blame Ike for delaying Tess
  • [13:26] Zero Linden: I've seen it -- I can vouch for it's existance
  • [13:26] Infinity Linden: we're basically waiting for the last review
  • [13:26] Zero Linden: It's true! Tess is delayed
  • [13:26] Teravus Ousley:  :D
  • [13:27] Teravus Ousley: well, I eagerly await it's release :D
  • [13:27] Infinity Linden: umm... okay... i promise not to put anything on my Netflix Queue before shipping draft 3 of the spce
  • [13:27] Infinity Linden: spec
  • [13:27] Morgaine Dinova: lol
  • [13:27] Infinity Linden: that way it's _very_ personal
  • [13:28] Zero Linden: can you put that assertion in XML, please?
  • [13:28] Teravus Ousley: hehe
  • [13:28] Zero Linden: ducks
  • [13:28] Infinity Linden: is there a w3c standard for such assertions?
  • [13:28] Xugu Madison: Almost certainly
  • [13:28] Infinity Linden: lol
  • [13:29] Infinity Linden: so only a 5 week task of reviewing the relevant documents
  • [13:29] Teravus Ousley: ok :D
  • [13:29] Morgaine Dinova: That's why it's dependent on a DTD ... so that assertions can emulate the Halting Problem when someone removes the doc ;P
  • [13:29] Teravus Ousley: and somehow it's all wrapped into WSDL
  • [13:30] Infinity Linden: but without hijacking the meeting too much... it does seem as if the time between draft 1 and draft 3
  • [13:30] Zero Linden: well - glad we're making that all clear
  • [13:30] Zha Ewry: Wrapped in WSDL, stored on a WSRF endpoint and stored in a UDDI repository
  • [13:30] Infinity Linden: was more than the community wanted to see?
  • [13:30] Zero Linden: DUCK!
  • [13:30] Zha Ewry: GOOSE
  • [13:30] Infinity Linden: CORBA!
  • [13:31] Xugu Madison: *has flashbacks*
  • [13:31] Zero Linden: Okay - yes, I think six months was a bit long
  • [13:31] Zha Ewry: DSOM V 0.89
  • [13:31] Zero Linden: BUT --- now we have Infinity on it....
  • [13:31] Morgaine Dinova: Can somebody quack at a page giving the resource classes / REST nouns so far please?
  • [13:31] Teravus Ousley: BSODes
  • [13:31] Infinity Linden: *shudderrs* remembering DSOM and xlC
  • [13:31] Zero Linden: like a list?
  • [13:31] Zero Linden: that would be a good thing to have
  • [13:31] Infinity Linden: lol
  • [13:31] Infinity Linden: (i'm taking notes here)
  • [13:32] Infinity Linden: and wonders if i could add such a list to the front of draft 3 before Tess reviews it
  • [13:32] Zero Linden: by the way we have been calling the suite for teleport "rez-avatar" as in "rez-avatar/request", "rez-avatar/place", "rez-avatar/rez" and "rez-avatar/derez"
  • [13:32] Morgaine Dinova: Good idea!
  • [13:32] Zero Linden: I wonder if that name is, er, wrong
  • [13:33] Teravus Ousley: rez_avatar
  • [13:33] Zero Linden: Actually - *IF* all the resource classes are defined via LLIDL, then the list should be directly and easily extractable from the doc
  • [13:33] Zero Linden: yes, underbar... much to my chigrin
  • [13:33] Infinity Linden: yup. just search for the start of resource digraph
  • [13:34] Zero Linden: a simple XLST to extract the text content of all sections marked role="LLIDL"
  • [13:34] Infinity Linden: maybe i should make a python tool to automagically extract it from the XML
  • [13:34] Zero Linden: and then grep for "%%"
  • [13:34] Teravus Ousley: heh, add some regexes to fix some XHTML transitional documents..
  • [13:34] Infinity Linden: hmm.. but i think that's not in hte spec that's released
  • [13:35] Zero Linden: Teravus - no LLIDL is not used in Draft 1
  • [13:35] Zero Linden: it will be in Draft 3
  • [13:35] Morgaine Dinova: An auto-extracted list would be excellent --- then that list will act as a key into descriptive wiki pages on each resource class.
  • [13:36] Infinity Linden: hmm... i think using a regex woul be easier... python would be overkill
  • [13:37] Zero Linden: Infinity and I have this goal that you should be able to take the spec document set, mechancially extract all the LLIDL sections - and then directly put that in a file accessible to an implemetnation that could autmoatically verify messages on the wire
  • [13:37] Morgaine Dinova: Great goal!
  • [13:37] Morgaine Dinova: ++ to both :-)
  • [13:37] Infinity Linden: oh.. and there was also the bit about world peace as well
  • [13:37] Morgaine Dinova: chuckles
  • [13:37] Infinity Linden: but ew thought that the automatically generated verifiers was a little easier to implement
  • [13:37] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Tree
  • [13:38] Tree Kyomoon: hi sorry to land on you there
  • [13:38] Infinity Linden: yup. one of the objectives of LLIDL is to enable tools that examine message Meta-Data in general
  • [13:39] Infinity Linden: though we may not be making such tools at first
  • [13:39] Morgaine Dinova: Aye, very important ... how else are governments going to automate Deep Packet Inspection on everything we do in VWs ... ;-)
  • [13:39] Morgaine Dinova: (Only slightly in ject)
  • [13:40] Morgaine Dinova: jest*
  • [13:40] Teravus Ousley: hmm true. Though .. likely we'll do this all over SSL
  • [13:40] Zero Linden: Well - we've seen internally at LL that lack of message introspection tools is a big big debugging time sink
  • [13:41] Zha Ewry: nods
  • [13:41] Zero Linden: And having a system where you could turn on (dynamically) verification and start getting messages like "Resource foo/bar: field event_time should be a date but was the number 17000"
  • [13:41] Zero Linden: woudl be a big big hellp
  • [13:41] Zha Ewry: Its only going to get much worse, if we start using the factoring to allow us to deploy the building blcoks on a range of computer fabrics
  • [13:42] Zha Ewry: *compute
  • [13:42] Teravus Ousley: how to tell the difference in unix time since epoc though?
  • [13:42] Zero Linden: especially when, when doing interoperabilit testing, you don't have control over both ends
  • [13:42] Teravus Ousley: 17000 is a perfectly valid unixtimesinceepoc
  • [13:43] Infinity Linden: fortunately we're going to be hard-cases about using the ISO date format
  • [13:43] Infinity Linden: in OGP messages
  • [13:43] Zero Linden: the ability to do extensive logging in apache is key to debugging that stuff when remote bots are talking to your apis
  • [13:43] Zero Linden: speaks from personal experience trying to interface LSL to web sites written in PHP....
  • [13:43] Infinity Linden: mmm... PHP...
  • [13:43] Teravus Ousley: 64 bit integers + PHP....
  • [13:43] Zero Linden: ISO Dates, keyed to GMT --- REQUIRED!
  • [13:44] Infinity Linden: does like PHP as a front end for SQL, however. and it _is_ everywhere
  • [13:44] Zero Linden: Teravus - which is one of the reasons Integers in LLSD are defined as 32 bit
  • [13:44] Graph Weymann: mmm, iso dates
  • [13:44] Zha Ewry: It woudl be really nice, if we had that in the Agent Domain today. It was good fun gettign past he opaque 50X errors.
  • [13:44] Infinity Linden: (don't worry... i'm going to sneak in a bignum library into the side of LLSD when people aren't looking)
  • [13:45] Graph Weymann: mmm,absence of accidental overflow
  • [13:45] Infinity Linden: (that was a Joke, BTW... don't nobody come to me in a year looking for the bignum thing)
  • [13:45] Teravus Ousley: hehe
  • [13:45] Saijanai Kuhn: well if Tao gets his code working with TP before leaving, we can add logging to it and have a workign python-based AD for people to play with
  • [13:45] Infinity Linden: which will, of course, be aw3sum
  • [13:46] Tree Kyomoon: three some?
  • [13:47] Saijanai Kuhn: and I got wx windows working with generic logging and printing, so everyone's favorite error logging/print methods will go straight into the main window for printing and what not
  • [13:47] Infinity Linden: Tree is off my christmas card list :-0
  • [13:47] Saijanai Kuhn: 3 sums ar fun, but complicated
  • [13:47] Tree Kyomoon: the sum of all threes
  • [13:48] Teravus Ousley: ooops there goes Saijanai too?
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: whoaaaaa there
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: back to the tech
  • [13:48] Morgaine Dinova: Being on Tree's Xmas card list would just get you a Flash binary anyway .... ;P
  • [13:48] Tree Kyomoon: >:(
  • [13:48] Infinity Linden: considers doing JavaScript Xmas Cards this year
  • [13:49] Infinity Linden: but yes... back to the tech
  • [13:50] Morgaine Dinova: I bet Javascript on a prim is coming, especially with the new push to JS speed given by Chrome/V8 etc
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: by the way- did Infinity mention that draft 3 wil lbe in four documents?
  • [13:50] Saijanai Kuhn: so if we do it right, we can write LLIDL mpacket descriptions in a teswt window, send it to the test AD, and get teh error messages back, all on-the-fly
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: LLSD/LLIDL, OGP Base, OGP Authentication and OGP Teleport
  • [13:51] Infinity Linden: @Sai... yes and no.. the AD should probably try to do something with the request
  • [13:51] Saijanai Kuhn: starts to understand the 6 months timeframe
  • [13:51] Infinity Linden: LLIDL really defines the message format
  • [13:52] Infinity Linden: and a simple chanson e responde semantic
  • [13:52] Infinity Linden: erhg.
  • [13:52] Infinity Linden: request and respones
  • [13:52] Saijanai Kuhn: Infinity sure, but you could have your modifications of what mssages to send AND what messages to respond to, both changing in realtime
  • [13:52] Graph Weymann: "that wasn't french?"
  • [13:52] Infinity Linden: i admit my fault. oui it was in french
  • [13:52] Morgaine Dinova: I like the croissants et vin protocol
  • [13:53] Infinity Linden: i spent too much time speaking french when I worked in Canada
  • [13:53] Saijanai Kuhn: hunts around for the katakana menu. Faux-jaapanese protocol
  • [13:53] Zha Ewry: You would also like compeonents to tell you where and why they finally broke on a request, if it's format, or missing element, or what
  • [13:54] Infinity Linden: but we should be able to automate the generation of tools that parse and serialize LLSD messages
  • [13:54] Infinity Linden: so a lot of the format checking should be automagic
  • [13:54] Infinity Linden: and with languages like python and javascript (that have an eval() function)
  • [13:55] Infinity Linden: you could even have a web interface off to the side of your service to dynamically add code to handle new messages
  • [13:55] Saijanai Kuhn: yep
  • [13:55] Infinity Linden: for security reasons, this may not be the best idea
  • [13:55] Saijanai Kuhn: well, for testing ...
  • [13:55] Infinity Linden: but it would likely be possible
  • [13:55] Morgaine Dinova: Beware the malware vector
  • [13:55] Tree Kyomoon: capabilities?
  • [13:55] Graph Weymann: perks up
  • [13:55] Infinity Linden: i have the heebie-jeebies enough from JSNO
  • [13:55] Infinity Linden: JSON
  • [13:56] Teravus Ousley: dun like JSON??
  • [13:56] Saijanai Kuhn: J'SON
  • [13:56] Infinity Linden: well... don't like the idea that it's executed in an eval()
  • [13:56] Teravus Ousley: ahh
  • [13:56] Infinity Linden: but am otherwise okay with it
  • [13:56] Tree Kyomoon: ewww quaint
  • [13:56] Infinity Linden: for a great number of things is is much simpler than XML
  • [13:56] Graph Weymann: an object-capability language could makevarious sorts of extensibility safer... but modifying the backend from outside is always going to be an additional risk
  • [13:56] Morgaine Dinova: JSON's fine, it's only the way that some implement it as a native eval() that's a recipe for malware tears
  • [13:57] Zero Linden: The JSON RFC has regexp that, it is claimed, if you run over the input -- it then is 100% to eval
  • [13:57] Infinity Linden: Graph... are you volunteering to do the e or BitC bindings for OGP?
  • [13:57] Teravus Ousley: makes use of .NET JSON---> object serializers
  • [13:57] Graph Weymann: Infinity, I don't iave a whole lot of free time, but I could try...if people promise to use 'em :)
  • [13:57] Infinity Linden: and the next rev of ECMAScript is going to have a json_parse command
  • [13:57] Tree Kyomoon: what could possibly be simpler than XML
  • [13:58] Morgaine Dinova: JSON :-)
  • [13:58] Saijanai Kuhn: hasn't seen LLIDL yet...
  • [13:58] Infinity Linden: BitC is close enough to Lisp to be fun... so it would go on my list of "things to do"
  • [13:58] Graph Weymann: JSON is simpler than XML, but it may be "too simple" if you actually want, say, namespaces
  • [13:58] Graph Weymann: Infinity, I don't know BitC, and I don't think it's a suitable language anyay, afaik
  • [13:58] Infinity Linden: (but honestly... that list is quite long... so JavaScript an PHP language bindings would probabluy come first)
  • [13:59] Infinity Linden: @Sai... yup... draft 3 is going to introduce LLIDL
  • [13:59] Graph Weymann: Infinity, would a lispy surface syntax for e help? :)
  • [13:59] Saijanai Kuhn: pyogp would need python bindings, obviously
  • [13:59] Infinity Linden: it went through NUMEROUS revisions internally
  • [13:59] Graph Weymann: (not very serious)
  • [13:59] Morgaine Dinova: JSON is semantic-free: you can always use it to transport namespace information as well, just add a term.
  • [14:00] Infinity Linden: fortunately 2PM came around before i had to answer the question about parentheses in e
  • [14:00] Teravus Ousley: hehe
  • [14:00] Graph Weymann: heh heh heh
  • [14:00] Zha Ewry: tags Infinity with a tracer collar
  • [14:00] Infinity Linden: sheesh Zha... does this mean we're married?
  • [14:01] Zha Ewry: chuckles
  • [14:01] Zha Ewry: Nah.
  • [14:01] Saijanai Kuhn: notes that Zha and INifnity have interesting... tastes...
  • [14:01] Zero Linden: well all (and by all i mean everyone (including animals an inanimate objects (which isn't to say they are not-animated))))
  • [14:01] Zha Ewry: Just that you can't hide
  • [14:01] Infinity Linden: lol
  • [14:01] Morgaine Dinova: It's hilarious how people complain about parentheses in LISP, and then advocate <foo> ... </foo> instead.
  • [14:02] Infinity Linden: i'm getting out of here before Sai makes a GOR reference
  • [14:02] Zero Linden: And if anyone here has NOT read John Barth's Menelaid --- you MUST
  • [14:02] Graph Weymann: well, </foo> *is* easier to balance by eye
  • [14:02] Saijanai Kuhn: harder to be dyslexic with that /
  • [14:02] Teravus Ousley: ho boy
  • [14:02] Graph Weymann: programming in XML is certainly abusrd, though -- too much structure
  • [14:02] Zero Linden: it is literary nested S-expressions.... (though with quotes, not parens)....
  • [14:02] Zha Ewry: ducks and runs for the 2:00 meeting
  • [14:02] Zero Linden: ....and it gets 9 layers deep!
  • [14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Graph: balancing by eye is only of use for trivial cases.
  • [14:03] Zha Ewry: (and too much need to parse *BEFORE* you know what you are parsing)
  • [14:03] Teravus Ousley: there's a 2PM meeting?
  • [14:03] Teravus Ousley:  :D
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: there is for me!
  • [14:03] Graph Weymann: Morgaine, just so
  • [14:03] Rex Cronon: bye zha
  • [14:03] Zha Ewry: Well, I have one
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: later all
  • [14:03] Infinity Linden: yup... if we don't stop soon, i'll be doing the beta/mjolner language bindings
  • [14:03] Teravus Ousley: take care
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: thanks for coming
  • [14:03] Rex Cronon: bye zero
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: oh - don't get my hopes up
  • [14:03] Infinity Linden: cheers, all
  • [14:03] pogan Palianta: Bye
  • [14:03] Saijanai Kuhn: take care all.
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: so misses Beta
  • [14:03] Rex Cronon: bye everybody
  • [14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Cya Zero, Infi, and any lurking Lindens :-)