User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07

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Topic & Summary

User Experience Interest Group Discussion for May 07, 2009.

Topic: Strategies for Managing Adult Content.

In the midst of the controversy over Linden Lab's new Adult Content policy, we discussed hypothetical alternative strategies that they might have employed to help users manage the types of content that they are exposed to.

Some possibilities (though not necessarily recommendations) were:

  • Per-item content rating. Textures, sounds, objects, etc. could be (voluntarily, by the creator) tagged with a PG, Mature, or Adult rating (or some other similar rating scheme). The viewer software would filter (hide, obscure, etc.) content rated outside of the user's preference.
  • Per-item content classification. Similar to ratings, but with more fine-grained control. Content would be tagged with categories of potentially objectionable material, e.g. "drug use", "photorealistic nudity", "extreme violence". The user would pick and choose which categories they did not want to see, and content in one or more of those categories would be filtered out.
  • Manual local filtering. The user could select specific textures, sounds, objects, etc. to be filtered from them. This would be useful for dealing with e.g. griefers and annoying sounds, as well as unwanted adult content.

There were some concerns about the efficacy of a voluntary tagging system, since many users would not tag items, either out of ignorance or malice (e.g. griefers). We discussed the possibility of communal tagging, where each user could tag any content, either suggesting the tag to a central authority (e.g. Linden Lab), or through a type of trust network. But, these approaches may be susceptible to abuse, for example a user could falsely tag another user's content out of mischief or spite.

There were also some concerns over the social implications of content filtering, even client-side filtering for personal preference. The one major concern was that filtering tools might encourage narrow-mindedness by allowing users to isolate themselves from content they were uncomfortable with.

Relevant Links

Transcript

[15:18] Jacek Antonelli: Today's topic is: Strategies for managing adult content!
[15:18] Jacek Antonelli: If you have been paying attention to the SL blog and the news lately, you know that LL are rolling out changes to separate adult content to its own continent.
[15:19] Jacek Antonelli: As well as making some other policy changes to make the rest of SL more "PG".
[15:19] Morgaine Dinova: That's easy. Provide a big red toggle button on the front screen. Click once, everyone's covered from head to toe. Click again, everyone is naked. I think that covers all the bases.
[15:19] Geneko Nemeth: If you can call that PG.
[15:19] Charlette Proto: ah does anyone have any idea about activities in private skyboxes on PG sims within the mainland
[15:20] Jacek Antonelli: It's a pretty controversial move, but it's actually not what I want us to talk about today. Well, not directly.
[15:20] Charlette Proto: the 1.23 has the GP, Mature & Adult options in the preferences general and search
[15:20] Jacek Antonelli: Instead, I thought it would be interesting to think of other ways that they might have handled the issue. Or even things that could be done to augment their plan, to add more controls to help people stay away from things they don't want to see
[15:21] Jacek Antonelli: Morgaine: That's a novel solution. ;D
[15:21] Charlette Proto: ah like bluring out cocks
[15:21] Morgaine Dinova: Let's relabel it for Imprudence: Minors, Adults, and Fun.
[15:21] Jacek Antonelli: Sure, that's an example, Charlette.
[15:21] Charlette Proto: I mean hiding content based on some non-PG attribute
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: Or turning porn textures into pictures of cute kittens
[15:22] Geneko Nemeth: But then you'll be killing kittens! That's too yellow and violent!
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli grins
[15:23] Charlette Proto: nice I'd like to know if there is a way to implement Rating Classification attributes
[15:23] Charlette Proto: shit furries would find kittens a huge turn-on
[15:23] Jacek Antonelli: That was a thought I had too, Charlette. Creators could mark their textures and builds as PG, Mature, or Adult, and then users could choose the maximum level they want to see
[15:24] Jacek Antonelli: Or something similar to that
[15:24] Morgaine Dinova: No no, not kitties. What the puritans find move homely and warm is extreme violence, you know, like they tell Hollywood to produce. So everywhere there's skin, just replace it with blood and spilling guts. Oh and lots of cries of torture please, that's approved presidentially.
[15:24] Charlette Proto: that makes sense
[15:24] Charlette Proto: hehe Morg
[15:24] Geneko Nemeth: But not approved by the Party.
[15:25] Charlette Proto: but is there a way to do ratings ala permission attributes within current asset server
[15:25] Charlette Proto: obviously one would want them to be under creator only control
[15:25] Morgaine Dinova: So, what can Imprudence do in this area that is highly imprudent?
[15:25] Jacek Antonelli: Or a similar idea, would be to flag images with certain tags or checkboxes describing the contents. E.g. "exposed nipples", "photorealistic nudity", "penetration", "aardvarks", etc.
[15:26] Jacek Antonelli: And then people could choose preferences about what specific things they don't want to see. That'd give more fine-grained control than just having ratings
[15:26] Charlette Proto: hehe
[15:26] Jacek Antonelli: Since people might not have the same ideas about whether, say, an artistic nude photograph is PG or Mature
[15:26] Morgaine Dinova: "Fine grained control". You mean Imprudence as the leading edge weapon of social censorship? Oh nice ....
[15:26] Charlette Proto: would aardvarks count as bestiality
[15:27] Jacek Antonelli: I threw in aardvarks because it doesn't have to be just about sex. Perhaps there is some taboo against aardvarks in a remote country, and they don't want to see them. ;)
[15:28] Jacek Antonelli: Morgaine: not social censorship, control over what you yourself see.
[15:28] Charlette Proto: good point about taboo jacek eg pig or even imaginary religion related creatures
[15:29] Geneko Nemeth: What if some aadvark avatar tries to stalk that resident who considers aadvark taboo?
[15:29] Geneko Nemeth: Does he just not see him?
[15:29] Charlette Proto: kind of Semantic Second Life™ Content filter
[15:29] Jacek Antonelli: Well, for textures, probably the texture would just appear gray, or perhaps some other standard texture to tell you that it's something you've censored
[15:30] Geneko Nemeth: But that guy's a freaking aardvark.
[15:30] Charlette Proto: except Semantic Web is about as realistic as DKNF in databases
[15:30] Jacek Antonelli: For builds... hrmm. Perhaps they'd be cloudish, like Ruths.
[15:30] Geneko Nemeth: DKNF?
[15:31] Charlette Proto: Donain Key Normal Form = knowledge domain keys for databases
[15:31] Jacek Antonelli: And of course, for avatars, you have the option already of muting them. Although one thing that's missing is to be able to visually mute without muting chat. Or vice versa.
[15:31] Geneko Nemeth: Ah. I've never heard of that normal form.
[15:31] Charlette Proto: never happened - Semantic Web
[15:31] Charlette Proto: ah you haven't studied Database Management
[15:32] Geneko Nemeth: Well, I have crammed Boyce-Codd normal form...
[15:32] Morgaine Dinova: There's a fine line there, and if you go too far, you end up reinforcing people's delusions. It's one thing to help control intended abuse/griefing. It's another to reinforce myopia and inability to face the world.
[15:32] Geneko Nemeth: Visual mute without voice/chat muting would be nice. Often there's some avatar that's so laggy I wish I could turn him into a billboard.
[15:32] Charlette Proto: CG Date proposed DKNF as a universal system for databased keys and it was never resolved during the last 40 years
[15:33] Charlette Proto: database keys*
[15:33] Charlette Proto: all to do with the generalisation of knowledge
[15:33] Charlette Proto: simply an impossible task
[15:34] Jacek Antonelli: Morgaine: Well, yes, it could (and certainly would) be used by people who don't want to think about things, like pretending homosexuality doesn't exist or such.
[15:35] Charlette Proto: the minute you want to deal with eg hooved/horned animals locations named after them seem to get dealt with as well
[15:36] Jacek Antonelli: But it has other applications, for example using SL in settings where sexual content, etc. is not appropriate, for example for education or work.
[15:36] Charlette Proto: and in Second Life™ the applicable domain for semantic terms is just as wide as in RL
[15:36] Jacek Antonelli: Or in the simple case of just not wanting to be distracted by spinning cubes with porn plastered over all sides
[15:37] Geneko Nemeth: But then again, would griefers want to tag their porn cubes as "porn" and "Adult"?
[15:37] Charlette Proto: yes one would have to take quite specific issues and limit the extent of interest to these classifications
[15:37] Jacek Antonelli: I think it should be up to people to decide what they want to see. Even if they have ideas and sensibilities that I find odd, or that might even be harmful to them.
[15:37] Charlette Proto: yes the porn textures are a typical case but wouldn't griefer textures escape any classification anyway
[15:38] Jacek Antonelli: That's a good point. Griefers certainly wouldn't tag their textures. So, it wouldn't be a perfect solution, obviously.
[15:38] Morgaine Dinova: I agree. You are of course going to provide a mode where everyone is displayed naked, right? After all, it is up to people to decide what they want to see.
[15:39] Charlette Proto: could the UUIDs be mapped to some register of known offensive etc content
[15:39] Geneko Nemeth: Not me. That's too yellow and violent. But sooner or later someone is going to hack the code and make this viewer. Rule 34 and all.
[15:39] Charlette Proto: a separate content metadata description database
[15:40] Morgaine Dinova: I want to see where this is going. Because to support people's desires is fine. To support just the puritans is not.
[15:40] Jacek Antonelli: That's a thought, Charlette. People flagging other people's textures? I can see some potential pitfalls there, though.
[15:41] Charlette Proto: a content metadata server is the only way I can see a filter like this being implemented
[15:41] Jacek Antonelli: I hear a Garn! *waves*
[15:41] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya GC :-)
[15:41] Garn Conover: :) this new RC sucks for Spacenavs
[15:42] Jacek Antonelli: Hey Squirrel!
[15:42] Charlette Proto: even when stuff gets AR LL could flag the textures according to different/predefined offensive tags
[15:42] Garn Conover: ppl need to remind me damnit im always forgetting
[15:42] Squirrel Wood: shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadows
[15:42] Garn Conover: shadows are fun
[15:42] Geneko Nemeth: Squirrel, what took you so long to go 200 metres?
[15:43] Charlette Proto: this kind of metadata info could help with a number of areas as well eg Intellectual Property
[15:43] Morgaine Dinova: So, what's the story, Jacek? Is Imprudence going to support the idea that "people should see what they desire", or is it only going to support the puritans?
[15:43] Geneko Nemeth cringes.
[15:43] Squirrel Wood: I didst travel a much longer distance :p
[15:43] Azwaldo Villota: it seems that a large amount of time and energy is invested in this issue; i wonder about the proportion of SL users who are actually ever offended...wonder if LL has data regarding the number of complaints received...do a lot of users complain?
[15:44] Squirrel Wood: the over offended users are a teensy tiny minority.
[15:44] Jacek Antonelli: First of all, Morgaine, this is all hypothetical. I'm not discussing this as an idea for Imprudence, just thinking about other ways this could have been handled.
[15:44] Charlette Proto: LL want to be able to provide content control for special users eg Educational/business needs
[15:44] Squirrel Wood: unfortunately they have the loudest voices when it comes to yelling
[15:44] Geneko Nemeth: It's probably because of outside influence... like a government thinking that Second Life is so yellow and violent it should be filtered.
[15:45] Garn Conover: blah ok parents are home need to poof *nuzzles and facewashes*
[15:45] Geneko Nemeth: That and rumoured TG merge.
[15:45] Morgaine Dinova: Jacek: OK :-) As you can see, I would be not happy if such a hypothetical thing were not even-handed, and only applied in the direction of supporting puritans. Interesting topic though, as long as it's even-handed.
[15:45] Charlette Proto: so there is some merrit in catering for these kinds problems and most offensive content is used over and over without any control now
[15:45] Squirrel Wood: See, in germany they want to filter the interwebz so 100% of the child abusing population can be tracked down
[15:46] Charlette Proto: but Morgaine; wouldn't you want some control over what your kids get assulted with
[15:46] Charlette Proto: the voice sounds like xStorm to me hehe
[15:47] Squirrel Wood: look behind you :p
[15:47] Jacek Antonelli: And, there's a difference between not wanting to see someone's porn plastered everywhere, and wanting to see everyone in SL naked. Namely, that the latter involves (arguably) large-scale invasion of other users' privacy
[15:47] Morgaine Dinova: No Charlette, I would ook after my kids, not abrogate responsibility and let them loose in an adult world.
[15:47] Squirrel Wood: considering the fact that the ToS states you must be of legal age, all this "filtering" and "censoring" is pointless. moot.
[15:48] Jacek Antonelli: Although if someone wanted to make a viewer that substituted, on their computer, every texture in SL with a random porn image, more power to them.
[15:48] Geneko Nemeth: It probably won't be so anymore soon.
[15:48] xstorm Radek: are we talking about the AC problem again ?
[15:48] Charlette Proto: but when the kids live in a VW they should have the ability to designate the content needs without griefers exposing them to stuff they don't wish to see
[15:49] Squirrel Wood: the fun thing with griefers is that whey will be confined to pg regions.
[15:49] Geneko Nemeth: Or more lkely, stuff their parents or government don't wish them to see.
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli: xstorm: Yes, in a way. We're discussing alternative strategies for managing adult content. Ways that LL could have possibly gone, instead of the way they are
[15:49] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)~
[15:49] Geneko Nemeth: I've heard that!
[15:49] Charlette Proto: yeah xStorm we are trying to discuss some principles for AC etc metadata for content in Second Life™
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli: Just kinda brainstorming and daydreaming, really
[15:50] xstorm Radek: the problem is there is a group of people that wish to have and show real life porn in sl
[15:50] xstorm Radek: its not many but some
[15:50] xstorm Radek: plus there is now web cam sex groups in sl
[15:50] Squirrel Wood: let them have their fun.
[15:51] xstorm Radek: yeas real sex over a web can in sl
[15:51] Morgaine Dinova: Putting one texture on top of an av mesh is no more an invasion of privacy than putting another texture on top of an av mesh. Privacy doesn't come in to the subject at all when discussing rendering of avatars.
[15:51] Jacek Antonelli: Personally, I'm an advocate for giving more power to the user, including the power to choose what they do and do not want to see. Even if I disagree with their choice, or think they are puritans or backwards or whatever.
[15:51] Squirrel Wood: they generate money.
[15:51] Squirrel Wood: income.
[15:51] Geneko Nemeth: It wouldn't be a problem if there's a group of people who don't want to see porn in SL.
[15:51] Charlette Proto: we could focus on the needs of Metadata descriptions for a while because I think this may be a generally usefull approach without clouding the issue in unnecessarily personal views
[15:51] xstorm Radek: no real life people having real life sex and getting show on a video in SL
[15:51] Geneko Nemeth: Morgaine said exactly what I wanted to say. ^
[15:51] Azwaldo Villota: Charlette: who assigns the metadata?
[15:52] xstorm Radek: so all that will be put on a island with a adult tag
[15:52] Jacek Antonelli: Morgaine: I think you'll find that most people, even people who are not "puritans", would be scandalized to find out that someone was viewing their avatar as naked without their knowing.
[15:52] Squirrel Wood: So Pinky. Are you thinking what I am thinking ?
[15:52] xstorm Radek: so whats the matter with AC taging items ?
[15:53] Charlette Proto: interesting question but one could cater for content creator based sytem sa well as a Moderator/Administrator based tags as well
[15:53] Geneko Nemeth: Is that it won't work, for example, griefers won't tag their spinning cube with porn/armadillo with "porn" or "armadillo".
[15:53] Jacek Antonelli: We briefly discussed that, xstorm. One problem would be that griefers wouldn't voluntarily tag their items. But that's not really any different than today, rezzing them in PG areas.
[15:54] Charlette Proto: yes but Moderators could step in when you deal with griefer material
[15:54] xstorm Radek: do any of you plan on griefing ?
[15:54] Charlette Proto: since this is basically an opt-in scenario the user could benefit from both layers of info
[15:54] Jacek Antonelli: And one possibility, though not necessarily one I would advocate, would be to make it a rule that certain types of content must be voluntarily tagged.
[15:54] Geneko Nemeth: It sounds fun... but I don't wanna be a meanie. ^^
[15:54] Squirrel Wood: I deal with griefers on an almost daily basis. they mostly reuse the same crap over and over again
[15:54] xstorm Radek: and if some one did grief with porn they will be ban from PG sims
[15:55] Charlette Proto: I like the two-layer principle more than the obligatory scenario myself
[15:55] Squirrel Wood: atm its mostly chocolate rain and bird cubes
[15:55] Jacek Antonelli: hehe, squirrel
[15:55] Morgaine Dinova: Jacek: scandalized is one thing, and invasion of privacy another. :-) Sure, some people are scandalized by a female not wearning a covering on her head. People are scandalized by all sorts of things. Can't be helped. And if the US purtians are scandalized by seeing skin, that can't be helped either. I live in Europe, and we take our families to naturist beaches and there is no scandal. So the americans would be scandalized. So what? It takes all sorts.
[15:56] xstorm Radek: i have seen griefing pics of 3 old men having sex
[15:56] Jacek Antonelli: Well, one of the tools I'd like to see, would be the ability to selectively mute/hide specific textures, sounds, or particles
[15:56] xstorm Radek: its not what any one wish to see
[15:56] Jacek Antonelli: Like, say, the Banana Phone song clip. >_<
[15:56] Azwaldo Villota: perhaps there could be several levels of AC metadata; tagged by Mod/Admin, tagged by creator, tagged by user...with ability for users to filter at any level
[15:56] Jacek Antonelli: Or that annoying Hooooo! gesture ;)
[15:57] xstorm Radek: no one cares about the banana phone song *GIGGLES* :)~
[15:57] Squirrel Wood: one banana phone
[15:57] Squirrel Wood: as requested
[15:57] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[15:57] Jacek Antonelli: Yaaaaay
[15:57] Charlette Proto: even worse xStorm and they get used repeatedly so Admins could tag them for filtering out by users who do not wish to see stuff like that
[15:58] xstorm Radek: see no biggy
[15:58] Squirrel Wood: if you have 500+ prims in close vicinity spamming the same sound.... auto-mute
[15:58] Squirrel Wood: like the grey goo filter...
[15:58] Charlette Proto: Squirell that is interesting thought too
[15:58] Jacek Antonelli: Yes, that's a thought, Charlette. Although it would be susceptible to griefing. E.g. someone could get a bunch of alts and have them all flag a competing store's products as "bestiality"
[15:58] xstorm Radek: why do you think when the telehubs get grief by music spammers no one bothers with it any more
[15:58] Morgaine Dinova: I've got an idea. How about discussing the *same topic*, but completely without reference to subject matter? Ie. not about AC at all.
[15:58] Squirrel Wood: shouldn't be too hard to do actually
[15:59] xstorm Radek: you just mute it
[15:59] xstorm Radek: no big problem at all
[15:59] Squirrel Wood: If something is flagged or AR'd, LL checks it out.
[15:59] Squirrel Wood: If its wrongly accused of being something that it is not, the reporter may get in trouble.
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: Morgaine: Alright. How about instead of Adult Content, we're talking about Annoying Content.
[16:00] Squirrel Wood: offensive content.
[16:00] Squirrel Wood: objectionable content
[16:00] Geneko Nemeth: Governments and parents don't worry about Annoying Content.
[16:00] Charlette Proto: yup true but if the Admin/Moderator tags were considered a value added service by LL than the admin functions could support dealing with thos problems too
[16:00] Morgaine Dinova: I nearly gave you a ++ Jacek, but it abbreviates to AC, so no good.
[16:00] Jacek Antonelli: I don't really want to hear "Get to the choppaaahh!", so that's something I would choose to filter out, if I could
[16:00] Squirrel Wood: politically incorrect content
[16:00] Jacek Antonelli: hey Maya :)
[16:00] Geneko Nemeth: At least it doesn't abbreviates to AO.
[16:00] Maya Remblai: Hiya
[16:00] xstorm Radek: but i have seen a case when some one was targeting some one in korea1 and had a group of 13 doing it to one person
[16:00] xstorm Radek: hi Maya
[16:00] Morgaine Dinova: Geneko: hahahaha
[16:01] Jacek Antonelli: Okay, how about... CIDA... Contend I Don't Appreciate.
[16:01] Morgaine Dinova: Maya! Hiya honey!
[16:01] Squirrel Wood: choppah?
[16:01] Jacek Antonelli: Content*
[16:01] Maya Remblai: Hey Morgaine :3
[16:01] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)~
[16:01] Geneko Nemeth doesn't that funny. He's humour-impaired, perhaps.
[16:01] Tower Of Terror Rezzer whispers: Done.
[16:01] Geneko Nemeth: I can has bad feelings about this?
[16:01] Squirrel Wood: sound familiar?
[16:01] Geneko Nemeth: Doesn't ring a bell.
[16:02] Squirrel Wood: Its a sound that used to be used by griefers
[16:02] xstorm Radek: what sound ?
[16:02] xstorm Radek: i do not hear any thing
[16:02] Charlette Proto: I'm sure there is a way to administer the process of managing official tags based on user ARs without falling into the traps of abuse in itself
[16:03] xstorm Radek: must be a muted sond on my mute list *GIGGLES* :)~
[16:03] Jacek Antonelli: Charlette: Trust networks are one idea. Like with BanLink
[16:03] Squirrel Wood: If I wanted I could spam you with over 14,000 sounds :p
[16:03] Squirrel Wood: about 500mb worth of asset downloads
[16:03] xstorm Radek: BanLink is not a good thing at all
[16:03] Geneko Nemeth: -_-!!!
[16:03] Jacek Antonelli: Why's that, xstorm?
[16:03] Maya Remblai: BanLink is gamed at times, though usually it fixes itself
[16:04] Charlette Proto: yes the process could be administered even outside of LL, I agree jacek
[16:04] xstorm Radek: any one can go in to banlink and file fake ban info
[16:04] Maya Remblai: There's a guy I know, used to be a sim manager, who has a vendetta against some friends of mine. He put one on BanLink saying she tried to hack her way into his sim
[16:05] Maya Remblai: Which for one isn't possible, and she wouldn't do that anyway. The few people sharing his list took her off and laughed at him, though
[16:05] Jacek Antonelli: True, but if you've configured your settings not to trust that random person's list, then it wouldn't be used for your parcel, right?
[16:05] Squirrel Wood: for that he should go on banlink
[16:05] xstorm Radek: i know a lot of people that have been Ban on BanLink and can no longer go to any public sandbox
[16:05] Jacek Antonelli: Maya: Good point
[16:05] Charlette Proto: my attitude is based on the assumption that I may want to have absolute freedom of expression in Second Life™ without contributing to a general problem of SL getting a reputation for being a sespit of offensive content for all users who enter SL
[16:05] Maya Remblai: I think it has good points and bad, personally. But I'm not really sure what the conversation is about anyway. :P
[16:05] xstorm Radek: and when the person that the banlink says ban then they told us they did not ban the person
[16:06] xstorm Radek: so it seems the people as BanLink do not check if the person filing a ban on banlink is that person or not
[16:07] Morgaine Dinova: It's just like open relay banlists in email, and spam banlists ... they're all abused and full of errors, and a power trip for the operator.
[16:07] Jacek Antonelli: Alright. Maybe BanLink specifically has some issues, or at least the way some people use it. But the idea of trust networks can still be applied
[16:07] Maya Remblai: I think it's left to the general public to "fix" false bans, kind of like wikis depends on the smart masses to fix spam entries.
[16:07] xstorm Radek: just like fake cops or the SL Police
[16:07] Jacek Antonelli: Or rather, it's one possibility
[16:07] xstorm Radek: do you wish the SL Police back again ?
[16:08] Morgaine Dinova: Always fails. The technology works, but the humans behind it fail.
[16:08] xstorm Radek: i spent 2 years to get rid of them
[16:08] xstorm Radek: Charlette do you wish to see fake police again in SL ?
[16:08] Jacek Antonelli: I don't see how that relates, xstorm?
[16:08] Charlette Proto: I think that since LL have some aspirations related to the sanitised content opportunities in Second Life™ they would be most likely the authority to manage SL related rating/tagging of content in SL
[16:09] xstorm Radek: what ever people that will be making up the AC rules must go by a set of local gov or state rules
[16:09] Morgaine Dinova: We're not talking about AC anymore I thought, just general content control.
[16:10] xstorm Radek: and that may not even work at all
[16:10] Charlette Proto: while the principles could be very general, specific problems in Second Life™ content could be addressed on the basis of LL commitment to user control of content in SL
[16:12] Charlette Proto: the generalisation of the Metadata based filtering of content could cater for AO and Intellectual Property as a basic case for developing a system for now
[16:12] xstorm Radek: what ever rules that SL will have must be base one not only RL rules but what every one will understand
[16:12] xstorm Radek: oh Charlette its called AC
[16:12] xstorm Radek: not AO any more *GIGGLES* :)~
[16:13] Charlette Proto: OK AO = AC
[16:13] Charlette Proto: in my expressions till now
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