Second Life Wiki - User contributions [en]

User Experience Interest Group

2010-04-30T00:06:02Z

Jacek Antonelli: UXIG has been discontinued.

== Quick Links ==

* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts|Transcripts]] of past meetings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Articles|Articles, Discussions and Proposals]] arising from past meetings

== About the User Experience Interest Group ==

The '''User Experience Interest Group''' (UXIG) was a group of Residents (and occasionally Lindens) interested in the Second Life user experience, including topics such as the SL viewer's user interface, issues faced by new Residents, accessibility for users with disabilities, and general user satisfaction, among others. UXIG was formed on October 30, 2008 after the Resident Experience Lindens announced that their weekly office hours would be reduced to once per month (and later cancelled them altogether). UXIG continued those weekly meetings in an unofficial, Resident-organized capacity. '''UXIG was discontinued on April 29, 2010''' and is no longer meeting. [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts|Transcripts]] of past meetings are still available.

Many UXIG members discuss user experience issues on the [https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sl-ux SL-UX mailing list]. Several Lindens from the Resident Experience team also participate on that list and can answer questions about SL user experience.

Please direct questions and comments about UXIG to the SL-UX mailing list.

[[Category:User Experience]]
[[Category:Second Life Groups]]

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-04-29T23:36:58Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ April 29 - Wrapping up

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-29|April 29]] - Wrapping up
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-22|April 22]] - How the viewer might evolve if not limited by SL compatibility
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-15|April 15]] - What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-08|April 8]] - Future of UXIG
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-01|April 1]] - Reducing the viewer's footprint
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25|March 25]] - Direct Manipulation Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-29

2010-04-29T23:36:25Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 29, 2010. '''Topic: Wrapping up.''' == Summary == We talked about the future of UXIG. Jacek is retiring fr...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for April 29, 2010.

'''Topic: Wrapping up.'''

== Summary ==

We talked about the future of UXIG. Jacek is retiring from hosting, and no one is interested in taking over, so UXIG meetings are now discontinued.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, the logins are having a bit of problems, so people might not make it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hooray for technical difficulties. -_-
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, I'm hungry...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well don't eat me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whoops, sorry Jacek, overshot on flaming T's meeting :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Total waste of time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looks like most people thought there was nothing today.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or they are stuck at login, but I don't think that's why there is few people.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Did Jacek say was going AFK for a bit?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dunno, but I'll be afk, making dinner.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll go reheat my tea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sad day, but I think you're making the right decision. And your long post on (Tateru's?) blog was I thought very rational, and forward looking.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|On Tateru's blog? :o You mean Tentacolor.com?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahoy Garn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover woofs''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli earskritches''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe I read a copy. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hows you hun?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Garn :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Garn.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've posted on the Imprudence blog about the Imprudence decision, and on my personal blog (Tentacolor) about my personal decision
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And on SL-UX about my decision to retire from hosting UXIG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It must have been on Tentacolor, unless I read an echo of it elsewhere. But it was a great post.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so how is all?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ow - steamed brocolli may be hot.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm doing well, Garn. You?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|im doing good working steadily trying to find enough hours in the days hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I know what you mean
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wondering whats gonna happen with NCI lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I got myself an InWorldz login on Tuesday ready for your Weds meeting, Jacek. Then I fell asleep on Wednesday, lol. Such is life :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|D'oh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, i can't stay, but i just had one question, are we gonna at least keep getting postings about where the mtgs might be & stuff like that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ive never been offworld
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aklo: For UXIG? I don't know if there are going to be any more meetings after today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh. That's sort sad.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Garn: you should, it's the future. Also, 3rd Rock and InWorlds are nice places, friendly people.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You'll let us know on the mailing list?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|THX!!!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have fun!!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Aklo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i should but i got enough stuff happening here i dont need to worry about other worlds lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So -- what's up with UXIG?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm leaving. What are you guys gonna do?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i dunno i usually just came to see you and McCabe hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One way of looking at UXIG is that over the last 1+ year, it's covered a lot of ground, and while it's not exhausted the topics, it certainly has some decent coverage. It deserves a respite, perhaps focssing on ADDING from that features list to a viewer like Imprudence.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe in another year or two, it'll be time to bring it back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let 2.0 get settled? hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, could be
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right now, if I spent my every waking moment just trying to implement all the ideas we've had, it would take me several years
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So adding more to the list without doing anything with them is a bit futile
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well 2.0 is such a User Experience disaster, that continuing UXIG while 2.0 UI is the standard would make a mockery of the whole thing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm on Kirstens
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow for chatlag lol 323
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure works that time lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I tend to think of Imprudence as the "User Experience Viewer" anyway. While I may disagree on some things, you guys do at least try hard to make it provide a good user experience.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alright. Sounds like UXIG is discontinuing, at least for a while. Is that it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds like it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For specific questions, there's still SL-UX
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wish that list was used a bit more.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't volunteer to continue it, so unless someone else does, I think that's it. My focus would always tend towards power viewers for techies, which is not really the same thing as usability for everyone.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover wonders : do u think LL will ever allow direct email to inworld accounts? lol''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe also for cooperation between different TPVs / between TPVs and Snowglobe.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sl-us, I mean
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*ux
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL-UX is someone distasteful because of the "SL" part ... given the lack of interest in User eXperience in LL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah :-\
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok im gonna scoot off *nuzzles Jacek* I'll hunt u down sometime Mrewp Mrewp! ^_^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe SL-UX will see a bit more use, now that UXIG won't be an outlet for people's ideas and venting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bye Garn! *nuzzles back*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover is waiting for the next Imp client Mrewp Mrewp! ^_^''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Should be coming soon :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mkay. So, since it's decided, anything else to talk about today?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I'd like some more discussions or even plain social chatting with the Imprudence group in Opensim worlds to occur. The population there is rather small currently, and I sense that unless we try to preserve some community, there's a danger of it disappearing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That might not be a bad thing, there's too much space with too little people. Everyone want their own sim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But it takes a bit more than that to make a community.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm thinking of shifting our in-world meetups to be mostly social, and use the mailing list to get things done.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Remember when LindenWorld first came out it only had 12 sims?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's fine, me neither!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure, me too Gen, I'll end up with large worlds too and I actually like isolation. But not all the time. I like to get together with others periodically too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Would it help to hold some kind of building contest every week?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be a fun event
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Definitely!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm ... I could practice some building ... doin' that too seldom.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth almost never builds''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Before a few weeks ago, I very rarely did building for fun anymore
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But now I've got my own OpenSim megaregion that I'm planning with my partner :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: there's something else that could be explored too, which is hard in SL: using the virtual world for development. There are no tools for it in SL, and Lindens won't provide them. But in Opensim, we are our own masters, and any group-oriented in-world facility targeted at aiding development could be added. We just need to get our thinking caps on, and then code it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No silly LSL, we can code MRMs in C# or in native code with full power.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scm-plugins for inventory!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aah! The rice cooker finally pops!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's our cue to adjourn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Native code? You want to write assembly for PowerPC or ARM8?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(inventory loss? just checkout a fresh working copy)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ding!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe Bor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imma let you finish but Javascript is the greatst scripting language for all times!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well inventory should be client-side anyway.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a bit sad to see UXIG go, but it has had a good run. Many great discussions and ideas. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adjourn UXIG. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|client side? no, I'd like to take it with me, from wherever I log in.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but agent-domain side or something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, take care everyone, and thanks for coming (today and in the past)!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: sure, anywhere you want it. But NOT in a specific VW. It should be in your chosen asset service, so that you have it everywhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Jacek, and keep the communication going :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you hang out anywhere in Opensim worlds typically?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wrote this (before I know about AWG/VWRAP): http://boroon.dasgupta.ch/persistent_inventory/persistent_inventory.pdf
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*knew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cheers Bor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right now I have a sim on OSGrid, named Tentacolonia. Still working on it, though. I'll be blogging about it on Tentacolor.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Sense a theme in the names?)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: great!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, take care everyone!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Well the name will raise a few eyebrows .... but I guess that's nicely imprudent :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gotta prettify my OSGrid avatar ... looks very Ruth-like still
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Jacek, you too :-)
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-04-23T01:23:58Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ April 22 - How the viewer might evolve if not limited by SL compatibility

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-22|April 22]] - How the viewer might evolve if not limited by SL compatibility
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-15|April 15]] - What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-08|April 8]] - Future of UXIG
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-01|April 1]] - Reducing the viewer's footprint
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25|March 25]] - Direct Manipulation Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-22

2010-04-23T01:23:00Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 22, 2010. '''Topic: How the viewer might evolve if not limited by SL compatibility.''' == Summary == We me...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for April 22, 2010.

'''Topic: How the viewer might evolve if not limited by SL compatibility.'''

== Summary ==

We met on OSGrid to imagine how the viewer might evolve if it weren't limited by Second Life compatibility. In other words, what the viewer might be like if developers could innovate without worrying about being backwards compatibile with SL as it exists today.

The meeting was interrupted halfway through because of technical issues with OSGrid, so we moved the discussion to IRC.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think let's get started. The topic today is " How the viewer might evolve if it weren't limited by SL support." It should be a fun and entertaining discussion :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what do you mean Limited by SL support?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe we should have met on RealXtend, though :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the OpenSIM Dev restrictions?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or something else?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good Q to clarify, Neb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, two areas I personally think are important are arbitrary region shape and sizez and bumpless region crossings.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean the fact that viewers are obligated to remain compatible with Second Life. So that puts some constraints on how things work.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok that makes more sense
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally im not against it, as long as it doesnt prevent usablity in LL grids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And OpenSim reflects many of the same SL things, so we could also consider this a discussion about how OpenSim might evolve
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, a viewer not restriceted to LL compatability could use megaregions better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doesnt really matter if they work in SL really
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the mods that is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep. For example, LL funnels everything through the sim as proxy, which limits sim scalability vastly. If the viewer could take assets by a separate path from asset services, sims could scale much better.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the viewer should still connect
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not suggesting that anything break off from SL. This is mostly just a fun, wild imagination type discussion :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim is a like a big gumbo - anybody can put anything in the pot, as long as they don't break compatability with the things that people want to continue working
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which does become a bit of a support nightmare :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's imagine a situation where developers could innovate however they like, without any concern for compatibility with the things that already exist
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: grider would be the big thing for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, bumpless region crossing would negate most of the need for megaregions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|With imaginary users that instantly upgrade to the latest version, and never complain about changes :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|frank: aren't they the same thing? very difficult to do bumpless between regions running on different eservers :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: ah, so fantasy land! ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Justin - agreed, the security changes int eh client to enable hg2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Justin: Exactly!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Vanish Firecaster:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As far as I understand it, Opensim is a platform-platform, so it might eventually lead to vastly different grids with different restrictions/abilities.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: adding the ability for a viewer to retrive assets by a non-sim path would be backwards compatible.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny: I've heard in #imprudence about it being almost already possible.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|frank: well, major reachitecting - transfer service access from viewer directly to service rather than proxying through the regions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: that sound swell!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh well considering HG 2.0 doesnt really exist yet does it? that could be tough one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Justin - bumpless, like cell phones between cells. And yes, very difficult.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|here are some things I'd like: extra arbitrary metadata attached to prims, viewer/SL communication, and a "average texture color" attribute on prims
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Neb, hg 2.0 needs client support, that is why diva stopped at 1.5
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i thought it could use Gridder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i dont think thats totally true Frank
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dale: yay on arbitrary metadata - opensim really needs that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that's what we're discussing here, client support for such things
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL could be much less ugly if every prim started as the average color of the texture instead of grey
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|uh oh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ping
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, consider RealXtend. From what I understand, they decided to shatter many of the assumptions in SL. Different avatar meshes, for example.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Region going down?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dale, what do those last two out of three mean?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(got the 3rd, ok)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was told that to go to HG 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|everyone would either have to launch with Gridder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or have a modded viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Neb: that's what we're discussing here, viewer mods
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|modded viewer would be the way to go, which would be a really exciting compatabilty break
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know but frank said viewer mod is required
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|w/r/t prim attributes, one thing that even Lindens wished they had in SL is multi-level linking.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i dont think it really is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|viewer/SL communication: a way to have the viewer talk to an in-world LSL script, bidirectionally
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|give you the true ability to cross between different viortual environments
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Multi-level linking is a good example
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Neb, understand. Sorry, I don't consider gridder a alternative - average people would consider it to complicated.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: man, that would be so nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|personally i think that if HG2.0 has to have a new viewer to work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i dont see it ever happening
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer mods can be backwards compatible too. Asset/inventory services like SimianGrid's can be accessed DIRECTLY, in addition to supporting the proxying through sim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we-ell, we are in fantasy land :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A priority for me is tearing apart distinct modules of the viewer so they can be mix 'n matched. Maintenance of 3d scenegraph, one or more renderers, UI components...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I think hg 2.0 could be so good that people would make the leap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In fantasy land, there can be a new viewer and everyone updates to it with no complaints ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What would the new viewer be like?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And it would be immersive with anaglyphic 3D!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would have an address bar where you could type in arbitrary urls to go to arbitrary regions across the net
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jeez Neb, don't be so negative! "I don't see it ever happening" is of no use for this discussion.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be BSD!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: there's a patch for that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well the fact the OpenSIM devs cant work on it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eh, not so interested in BSD :-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh - not gpl 3 :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it seems unlikely that it would get done in a timely manner
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, without hg2.0 I don't see how an ecconomy is going to develop, and with out money and the implied content security things will never replace web 1.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer2.0 already have an address bar, why not make it an omnibar?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i really dont think HG2.0 solves the money issues
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|katurady: yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nebadon, I don't see anything stopping you from working on the viewer as it is right now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can someone describe HG2.0 briefly? For those of us who have no clue about it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes there is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just call me Katurday.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The GPL is about copyright, and so long you don't copy you're fine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, I think money has to be handled externally - the existing mechanisms are pretty good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenSIm devs can not look at the GPL code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you couldn't really copy if you tried
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we all agreed to it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: I would say that HG 2.0 is where the viewer contacts services directly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|our laywers dont agree with you Dale
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the LL viewer is full of LLThis and LLThat to such an extent none of it could be pasted into opensim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rather than relaying things through the sim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if you want to get your inventory, it doesn't have to be hosted by any grid, you just use any inventory service completely independent of regions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nonsense, all the "assets" that make the web work are free, and yet it exploded. It's pure FUD to say that the metaverse won't work unless SL's all-content-paid-for model is supported. Not necessary at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then you can go to any grid and use your inventory anywhere (which is where it gets tricky due to scripting and other artbirary behaviour)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i dont agree wiht that either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JCC : agreed. Inventories shjould be stored in user's private spaces (S3 whatever)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you definitely need payment mechanisms, but I think paypal et all are good enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to see a world-agnostic micropayment service with the kind of hooks that would make in-world transactions feasible...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh i guess my imagination is limited on traveling between grids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pete: yep - and assets would be drawn directly from webser vers, not through regions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i never leave OSGrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|everythintg i need is here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nebadon: when a man is tired of osgrid, he is tired of life ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So the imaginary new viewer would get rid of the SL model of how the servers are arranged and communicate with each other and the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YES
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JC++ --- "inventory" should be a private resource, client-side, which simply organizes references to assets (remote or local) into a personal tree.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Vanish Firecaster:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: oh yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JCC++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nebadon: honestly I think your lawyers are overly paranoid. I looked at both codebases, and if they somehow could be made compatible enough to copy code from one to the other, hell would freeze over
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is that what Vwrap is all about
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Vanish Firecaster:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually, wouldn't it be best to store your assets locally?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|webdav will do exactly what you guys are saying
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I doubt vwrap goes far enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you sure about that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vwrap, HG2, whatever works first ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's talk about some things that affect the user more directly and visibly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because hg 2.0 does pretty much dispense with content security - much more like the web
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have you looked at webdav?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's stick to Jacek's topic. The Opensim contrib licensing thing is not going to get resolved here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the lindens just can't go down that road without being castrated
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|With the federated assets model, we have some interesting new failure modes (this half of the people in a region can't see the other half except as clouds; .??? I'd like a list)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: ok - graphically?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JCC++ again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latha: yeah, lots of cool new problems :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL viewer is very LL specific. It's all full of LL's own classes used as a base. Until not very long they had their own string class. It heavily uses the STL too. And there's little separation, GUI code directly assembles grid messages
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, the multi-level linking would be an important change that would affect the user in a very direct way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or new avatar meshes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Or *arbitrary* avatar meshes)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As JCC says, Lindens have a noose around their necks, the residents would lynch them. Open grids do not have that noose
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|penny: yes, vastly more freedom to experiment
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Frank Northmead:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, mesh supposrt is coming, mulitple level linking would be excellent.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Darn, I have to download plugin XYZ before I can see your avatar."
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And so we're free to make viewers work better by not having SL's restrictions.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dale Glass:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For many things like parcels where's no parcel.Banlist, there's a list loaded into the parcel floater. Which is why you can only have one, and the data is lost if you deselect the parcel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|nurbsPlane9:
| style="white-space:normal;"|DynamicTextureModule: Error preparing image using URL http://osgrid.org/cgi-bin/random512.cgi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Vanish Firecaster:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally, I'd love to have my assets on my machine and/or on an external web service, but not on a grid basis.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latha: That I kinda worry about, Torley and LL's first hour experience is already using Flash heavily.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YES
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Vanish
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the Vwrap Webdave
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|firecaster++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Webdav does just that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can view your invnetory in IE
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or any webdav cleint
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup, reason why i tend to love vwrap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eventually move content between any grid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just like drag and drop files on your hard drive
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Think from a viewer user perspective. When you're using the imaginary ideal new viewer, what is it like? How does it differ from the current state?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|nurbsPlane9:
| style="white-space:normal;"|DynamicTextureModule: Error preparing image using URL http://osgrid.org/cgi-bin/random512.cgi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The WebDAV model (which Hurli is merging with VWRAP) is exactly the way to go.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://webdav.onikenkon.dnsdojo.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can create an account on my grid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://onikenkon.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can we ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Vanish Firecaster:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My imaginary new viewer doesn't think in terms of 'grids' or such.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then pull up your inventory in any webdav client basiclly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are there still groups? Are there still distinct sims? Do you still walk and fly and teleport?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nebadon Izumi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its read only at the moment though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Justin Clark-Casey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: multiscreen support
|}

At this point, the OSGrid experienced severe technical difficulties, so we moved the discussion to IRC.

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|irc always aves our asses :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|saves
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, back to flatland :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Always good to have a backup plan :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe our phatasy viewer then needs irc :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|phantasy*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if chat was more separate fromt he region it would at least survive such a crash
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a bit like voice sometimes survives
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|First assumption to get rid of from the SL era: the instability ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|weee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd prefere jabber though ....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gonna be a while. even if os were perfect mono isn't
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and so is very far from perfect
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|of course, could just run everything on windows..... mmm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know all the users would be dazed and confused if things weren't as unstable as SL, but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|}:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, so
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As justincc commented, it's hard to imagine far-out different things
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is multi-link really a builder experience rather than user? Or are users assumed to be builders too?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why is SL the measure for Opesim? no other cool MMOs?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|justin, I think users - in the masses - are consumers and not creators.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|phantasy viewer : split screen, differetn camera angles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Building is part of the user experience, though. At least in the current viewer model, where objects are created in-world.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that comes back to the interesting question of build tools in the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jjacek: the fantasy viewer might contain an easy way of editing and creating meshes ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For something like Blue Mars, where they are created in other tools and then imported, it wouldn't really be a user experience issue as much
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|building is only part of the user experience in the SL model.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some people really get a lot of value out of co-operative building
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed. Personally, co-op building would be something I would keep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some yes, but MASSES - are not techie. Think farmville mentality.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|without builders, no content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that virtual worlds are all about events - it's a logical waypoint for the social web, 5 years down the road
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|80+ million playing farmville, how many in SL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|FrankNichols: No reason to limit the discussion to user experience for the "masses"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think that if builder tools were more intuitive, much more people in SL would go into building
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jjacek - agreed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people who are not used to 3Dsmax, maya or whatever
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sketchup people
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Everyone who uses the viewer is a user. (Duh, hehe). So it's valid to imagine all different ways it might evolve
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Scripting would be another aspect of the experience -- assuming scripts are still written (or at least pasted) in the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's one area where OpenSim is casting off some of the assumptions already.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dont think one viewer fits all. possibly a modular design allowing plugin's so content creators can add build tools, developers can add debug tools, etc...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, by allowing other languages besides LSL. And providing functions to give greater control to the region owners
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nebadon says the grid is back
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One of the core assumptions of SL is that all regions will behave more or less the same
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what do you mean?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, they will all have the same physics engine, the same rules for what can be built and where, the same rules for land management, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|boring
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That puts some significant limitations on content creators who want to do something different. For example, to make an MMORPG using OpenSim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jjacek: artbirary decisions might require an arbitrary client ui
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bwild deploys an array of photon torpidos and blows up 10,000 legions of demons
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if the viewer made much more use of embedded html for such interfaces, then you could get more flexibilty at the expense of a very tight ui experience
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alas, no footage available inworld
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a pluggable APi for the viewer would be great. Custom plugins extending viewer functionalities. Part time developers could try and implement thiungs ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|media on a prim starts to allow scripts to present better html interfaces, not just through the old janky media browser
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think html ui would be a very interesting way to go, rather than require the user to install plugins :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes html UI, definitely
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, plugins/addons would be a game changer. We did some preliminary design for that with Imprudence over a year ago, but alas, more urgent things started to demand our attention.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(And never stopped demanding it.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jjacek: what are you working on right now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|firefox or chrome plugins for viewing, building, debugging, scripting, etc...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me personally, nothing (to my dismay). Just maintenance and keeping the project rolling. For the project in general, we're mostly doing maintenance and ports from other viewers. Not very fun. Hopefully we can break out of it soon.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|crazy idea #2 - iPad client...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not cray... sound
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there was/is a client for the iphone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a text one yes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is a naali client for the n900
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:))
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|graphical.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah yeah, maybe it was text...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, iPhone client is text.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, to get back to the topic.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<maybe a short mail on the ML for those who got lost?>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jjacek, ive got a broken mvc viewer if you are interested :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|FrankNichols:
| style="white-space:normal;"|modular cleint arch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, a more modular design would be a necessary part of the dream viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Getting rid of that assumption from SL that everything will always be the same, wherever you go.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, but how far does that go? You need some base standards, like html and javascript
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does infinite variation became too expensive to develop for?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|html5 ? c3dl ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(base standards)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, even higher than that. At least since everythnig is the same in SL there' s a pool of regions you can develop content for
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if everybody has a different way of doing things then that could be very good for experimentation but poor for mass adoption
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can only agree
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|o hai!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the other side of the coin is Does Opensim really want to be tied to rearranging deck chairs of the Titanic?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean does it ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim implements a lot of sl because that's the only thing with real momentum
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|iirc SL one of many mmo's
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the others are either massively different architecturally or don't have open clients and libraries
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for instance, opensim relies a lot on libnpenmetaverse. Where is the equivalent for other MMOs?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup, but SL user base is good for OpenSim. Most of us come from SL not wow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(for the mo)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|naali uses orge, and that's already working in opensi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the upstream sources of my mvc vieweer also uses ogre
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it works via taiga, which tacks on various code via region module to make that work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|k, well i would say Rex has been proving that the code works with opensim :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's step back a bit, and approach things from a different angle.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Using SL as a starting point, what are things you would change?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Or current OpenSim as a starting point)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|improve stability and performance :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how is that possible if not contributing code to that base?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, that one is obvious ;) What else?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|improved builder capabilities
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know of any viewers that let you rez a blank sculpty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is just a thought experiment, really. Don't worry about practicalities like access to the SL server code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|_viewer code_
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is untouchable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Terrain tools : "à la" Terragen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about setting terrain textures by directly painting the textures on? That's industry standard
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bwild: For OpenSim developers, perhaps. But that's still a practicality. Ignore it. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting idea, ZauberExonar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yah :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|an overhang terrain manager would be nice too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|multiple variable water levels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In fact, the whole terrain model of SL is pretty backwards
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or effectively programmable/simulated terrain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(old fashioned)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's prehistoric
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a overhang terrain manager would let let you dig tunnels and caves into the terrain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a pain for anybody wanting to experiment with gis data
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, something more like voxels, or whatever. Being able to carve and mold the terrain in all dimensions, not just height
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| colspan="2"|''* Key_Gruin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|multiple variable water levels is something I've asked about before, Justin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|terraform caves, tunnels, etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenSim sculpties with meshmerizer almost achieves it. At least, you can replace the terrain with true 3D meshes of a sort.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But they're not so easy to manipulate
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and results in terrrible viewer performance, I hear
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sculpties aren't really true 3d meshes. more like pretend meshes :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe ... then maybe "terraform" sculpties :D ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yah :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why not code the viewer using gpgpu like OpenCL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|after all the bottlenecks are the graphics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seriously, being able to mold sculpties in the viewer would be awesome
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you could do it using Emerald's temporary texture uploads feature
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you'd probably need to throttle it somewhat to limit bandwidth use, though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be interesting to have mesh tools on par with Blender or Maya. Like being able to walk around inside a Blender scene and edit it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and of course manipulate animations inworld (penny is missing) - e.g using a blender plugin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, and something else I mentioned to Armin the other day when he was at InWorldz was how the terrain height map is using lossy compression. This leads to jagged spots around sharp changes in elevation. Would it be possible to code in support for lossless compression?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|justincc:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, I need to go. Good conversation, pity about the wright plaza crash but these things happen on the frontier
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care justincc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| colspan="2"|''* justincc waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes for terrain, that would be great : lossless
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, that's definitely worth looking into
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those jagged spots are actually image artefacts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jumping back to maya/blender : intuitive bridges with existing 3D apps would help builders tremendously
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its an incredible waste of space haing one terrain and 10,000 meters empty sky
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|brb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is almost sci-fi for the time being but what about the next generation UIs ? (project natal & such) ; and support for 3D displays ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm, some other crazy ideas: spherical regions (inside or outside). Ringworld regions. :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those have been done
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|based on bubble regions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bubble regions?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|something like that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's demos on the internets
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Based on OpenSim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bubblecloud.org
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ArminWeatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(btw login at osgrid just append to work again)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting. They seem to still be "flat" regions, though. I'm thinking of a planetoid you could run around.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|peteatolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, or just a spaceship : no ground
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh ive seen that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|based on Cube3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cubd2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oops
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Something like Mario Galaxy, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's demos online
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|iirc its like EarthSim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they have roaming dynasaurs on distant planets
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|back
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Cube 2 is interesting. Especially its geometry model and build-in edit mode.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUGIcSBY8w8
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah. Qube.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought you meant Cube: http://cubeengine.com/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they use Octrees to get the detail
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they used that engine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|btw SL viewer seems to have octree support mentioned
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a friend of mine tried experimenting with a VW based on Cube2, but found that the source code was extremely difficult to modify
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bbtw.. Id Tech 6 is going to use octrees
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, Cube2 makes it almost impossible to use curved surfaces
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the worlds look pretty curvvey
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qube/Q2 and Cube2 are different things :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Bwild:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one is a fps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes. And completely different engines, I'm sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''* jjacek stretches. Hm. Seems our discussion has slowed to a halt? :)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is Qube a cross-platform engine?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think I'll consider the meeting done. Feel free to continue chatter, though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|ZauberExonar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PANCAKES
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|jjacek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Profound!
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-04-16T02:47:38Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ April 15 - What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-15|April 15]] - What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-08|April 8]] - Future of UXIG
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-01|April 1]] - Reducing the viewer's footprint
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25|March 25]] - Direct Manipulation Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-15

2010-04-16T02:46:42Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 15, 2010. '''Topic: What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer.''' == Summary == We met in the Wri...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for April 15, 2010.

'''Topic: What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer.'''

== Summary ==

We met in the Wright Plaza lounge on [http://osgrid.org OSGrid] to discuss what OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer.

In approximately the order mentioned:

* Stability (fewer/no crashes).
* Lighter memory usage.
* [http://www.meta7.com/wiki.php?page=LightShare LightShare] support.
* Content export tools, including object contents.
* Bold, italics, etc. for chat.
* Fix the long-standing alpha sorting issue ({{Jira|VWR-27}}). Unfortunately this is not feasible to fix completely, but {{Jira|VWR-6713}} may offer a solution for many cases.
* Support for variable sized regions (i.e. [http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/09/opensim-megaregions/ Megaregions]).
* User-defined [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping normal maps] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_mapping bump maps] on prims.
* Custom entries in the menus, to add quick-links to web sites, Hypergrid links, etc.
* Support for cross-grid IMs and group chat.
* Ability to visualize the collision mesh for sculpties. (By default, OpenSim uses a true mesh for sculpty physics collisions, not a sphere like SL does.)
* Ability to turn off terrain and/or water as a sim setting, for e.g. space sims or completely underwater sims.
* Customizable height maps for sim water, similar to height maps for terrain.
* Neighboring empty regions should match the water height of the current region.
* Fix the issue with oblong sculpties. ({{Jira|VWR-11828}}, I think.)
* Proper [http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Hypergrid Hypergrid], [[Open Grid Protocol]], and/or [http://tools.ietf.org/wg/vwrap/ VWRAP] support. Perhaps borrow policies from [http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Grider Grider].
* A "grid transfer" permission checkbox, to indicate permission to move the content to other grids.
* Inventory backup/restore (partial or full). Similar to IAR (Inventory Archive) backup on OpenSim server tools, but built into the viewer.
* Features from Viewer 2.0: alpha layer, tattoo layer, inventory links, shared media
* Gray avatars (texture not loading) are an annoyance. It may be a matter of lost packets. Perhaps a way for the viewer to re-request an avatar's baked textures from the sim would help.
* Inventory quick filters ([http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjacek/3059992506/in/pool-imprudenceviewer a la Imprudence])
* Various features built in: radar, animation overrider, dancer, chat translator.
* Web-based search pages (All, Showcase, Groups) should not be hard-coded to SL searches. (But in many cases there isn't any existing search service for the current grid. This is something viewer and server developers can address together.)
* Fix/replace "the crappy basic avatar."
* Script editor should have tips for [http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Implemented OSSL functions].
* Should replace SLURLs with a multi-grid alternative, like [http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/2009/01/07/addressing-places-in-virtual-worldsor-why-slurls-are-bad/ rezzme://] or [http://lab.newworldgrid.com/index.php/OSURL osurl://] URLs.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello Jacek, Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jacek, Adelle :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Marcus, BlueWall
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heya, Adelle. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Adelle
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I demand free liquor be dispensed from my Imprudence viewer. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd pass ya a beer but i havent got round to makeing it yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes open source beer please
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey, but you're running Emerald. No free booze for heretics! ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Libre beer! w00t
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll work on it after i finish the saber claws
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeeeahh... Imprudence only lasts a few mins for me before a crash. I didn't wanna have to relog for the meetin'.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, that's too bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Believe me... I was a lil embaressed knowing I'd show up with the wrong viewer tag. hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I keep hearing the same for the new Hippo. I haven't had that problem.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lmao
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nope new hipps seems fine to me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|New Hippo is stable enough... but there's some bugs. :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I don't care for it's adherence to that ancient UI paradigm, frankly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Animation Changer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Running
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Show me a piece of software without bugs, I'll show you a lucid dream.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mario 1?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello world :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohh ohh ohh better one .... snake
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL Viewer 2 is a tourist trap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wheres my lucid dream :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Rev
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sl2 = 1 million ways for LL to phail again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although there are things in it that definitely annoy me, I find SL Viewer 2 to be an improvement over the adhoc UI the old one had.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Armin. Nice hat :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i havent even looked at sl2 yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wander if they have "Farmville" envy?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i heard that many bad reports, i decided to not waste my time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's only been made cause ll know that there are atleast 20 viewers out there better then thers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|^^ yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, Including LibOMV
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i do like the idea of html on prims and stuff, if it works ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|an updated render engine would be nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|html on prima is good but pointless without full browser compatability
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the prim media is both awesome and frightening. It wasn't thought out completely, particularly security.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you interact with it, it jerks your cameral sqyare to the prims face
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, after people talking so much about white,grey and black hats i thought a bit color would be fine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol neither was media in SL1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:56]
| colspan="2"|''Nebs Cherry Martini with Orange Slice whispers: Another route to Nirvana''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and adding in css vbs js ect will over lag the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall, I didnt know that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can look at it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, if you click an input on it it will
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall: That's configurable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about scroll bars?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohhh, ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It has scroll bars, yes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is a good idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think you can toggle the camera capture via the associated script functions, yes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could be interesting to see how it effects the tv industry on sl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|From a technical standpoint, the media on a prim stuff is amazing. But there are security/privacy issues to work out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, do you want me to annouce at the end of Merov's meeting that UXIG is here? (2 mins to go)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Invite all of SL. ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny: I left a prim reminder with a link to the mailing list archive with more info
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We should be alright
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|did Lbsa Plaza get put out in the fringes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|KK, I won't say anything then
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it did, BlueWall
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in an attempt to gain a bit of stability
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lbsa is haveing issues atm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I saw a lot of voids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't worry. People will crowd around the voids soon enough, again.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it also has two layers of voids around it now too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is a good idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that place used to beat the living hell out of my sims
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe it beats the living hell out of the voids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Enrico Nirvana:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya, Enrico.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|4gig of logs in about 2 weeks!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|O.o damn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Holy jeebus.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Save us from all that reading jeebus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Enrico, and welcome everyone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do the voids really need logs? Can't ya kill that in log4net?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YEAH
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can kill the logs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i can and I did, but after an update, i forgot to kill them again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|d'oh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yer fired. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|erm i should proba ask this since im here whats UXIG?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|user experience interest group
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh so like osg's version of a focus group
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG (User Experience Interest Group) is a group I started with a bunch of SLers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|After the Lindens cancelled their user experience office hours. I took over their hour. >:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It is a focus group.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We talk about user interface, usability, and other issues in SL. Except today, where we're talking about OpenSim :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are you ready to take over their grid?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|im not surprised to find summin like it here osg is more cuminity focused then sl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not really.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The new SL first hour experience (disregarding viewer 2.0) is interesting and engaging.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, so far as I know there isn't a UI group... as there's no actively developed viewer for OpenSim. Or... hasn't been one. ;) But there is an official town hall meeting for grid users.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really over recent times ll has been more bothered with the media then the player comunity
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's worth saying that the transcripts of UXIG make a pretty decent repository of ideas for GUIs. Jacek classifies them well too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, we've got a year and a half worth of transcripts that LL has been mostly ignoring
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|NO. Not LL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's OK, it's mutual :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know, so out of character for them to ignore users, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well it's not out of charicter as to say there getting worse at it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't been able to run the Imprudence veiwer in a while (on Linux) but, I plan to build it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take there " roadmap" that has nurfed xstreet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been using 1.3b2... so that's prolly why I keep crashing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whee!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe wb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Minor turbulence :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haa
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am using 1.3b2 on linux
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haven't crashed yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what distro?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I really, REALLY love the grid management functions in 1.3... so that's why I keep trying to use it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gentoo ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been running nothing but Imprudence 1.3.0* ever since the Merge Test release came out, because it's rock solid for me on Linux.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, OpenSUSE 11.2 here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.3b2 on Linux with a few modifications.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|UUID Speaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lillith xue: 42df21a7-10de-45d1-9e70-89c80e4dcdcf
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sometimes it would drag the system down, but it's common to all viewers and I haven't figurred out why.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm on Win7 64... crashes suddenly and without warning on me. :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, also segfaults at startup, but that's also common.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its not stable on win 7 32 bit either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|weird im on win7 32 and no probs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|On linux I've noticed the slowdowns are related to pulseaudio
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boo. Well, I encourage everyone with Imprudence issues to post in the forums so we'll know about it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When it runs, it's beyootiful. But it just dies. :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohh imprudence viewer never tryed it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|im on hippo n prity stable on win 7
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I build my own OpenAL libs to fix pulseaudio problems, that might be why.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Today we're here to talk about: What OpenSim users and developers want in a viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is hippo still maintained?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I guess "Not crashing" is something to put on the list
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady I'd like some instructions on that later.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, definitely.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus: there's a bug with that grid manager that annoys the hell out of me, namely that it ignores the command line flags. -grid XXX should override the last grid used, and select the appropriate last login on that grid.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I disabled voice and audio, and still crashed. But it could still be interacting with the libs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Stability is up there for me, yup. I'm only on Emerald because it isn't crashing, and I'm a few versions back on that too. Hippo is stable, but I don't like it's UI, and it has some bugs that prevent certain things from working.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Baewyn: sudo apt-get build dep openal-soft && git co xxxxx && cmake && make && make install
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then copy stuff to the lib folder.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like to see a sensible amount of memory consumption from a viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: 1.11.753 ? for me it fixes the hang with pulseaudio on shutdown
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty will try on my Ubuntu machine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| colspan="2"|''Haku Mhia raises hand''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, lighter memory use. What else?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Go ahead
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|forced windlight setting from a simulator
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lightshare
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be col to see the windlight automation used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|++ Adelle, lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agreed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe, everyone thinking the same thing, eh :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there already an server in osgrid to test it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great minds and all that, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This might be a little out there... but it's something LL would never add, and text chat is very popular on OSim grids. So I'd love to see formatted text for chat. Bold, italics and such.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well i'd like to see import options on the viewer alot of users have content from the LL grid they waht to transfer here but have to use ofer viewers or "copybots" to do so
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|post 1.11 actually. I checked the git log today and is a bit afraid the change post 1.12 of always mixing in 6 channels might slow it down.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well it's the things that everyone has been asking of LL for years, and always being ignored :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if one wants to test lightshare sometime, ill get a set sim up here ith lightsare on it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Build it here and upload it to there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar thinks LL's new orientation experience could be enhanced with LightShare''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I blieve OpenSim has lightshare support in trunk.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes ti does
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that is in trunk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not on pre Presence refactor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's just an idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it may go into, or even be in post-fixes.. i'm not sure as i have been lazy with reading logs lately
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That'll be a fun one for creators
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the *prefix branch??
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its not in post fixes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, i didn't figure out how to start it yet :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ill release my version sometime
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesome, Rev
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have it workng on sqlite a wel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What other things would you guys like in a viewer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aswell*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are the osFunctions in the scripting editor?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|On the subject of object im/export, I'd like to see prim contents (textures, notecards, scripts, etc) exported as well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another couple of things i would love to see in a viewer, though i have no idea how possible they are, are higher graphics FPS and fix the alpha issue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So far I've got stability, memory use, LightSHare, content export, and font bold/italic/etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well something i come up with only a fem mins a go so not much of a concept for it but some kind of intergrated "xstreet" like function
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can you describe the alpha issue, Adelle?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1bit alpha!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hrm, hard to put into words, but distand alpha textures come infront of close alpha testures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would save alot of content creators looking for land to share there work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*statant
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*distant
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps we should start from the Opensim end, rather than from the viewer end. What things that are different in Opensim (versus SL) are not supported in viewers, because they were of no interest to LL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, there are some issues with alpha textures being sorted in ways that seem wrong
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think a marketplace function would need server support.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I just want this: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6713
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mic Bowman:
| style="white-space:normal;"|variable sized regions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|something in the rendering pipeline to put the dynamic textures in front would be pretty nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would make me REALLY happy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mic++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know if you turn on fast alphas, that problem pretty much goes away, but the alpha textures then get the grey halo and flicker
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cross-grid IM
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe there should be a way to see if an alpha texture does use gradients?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, as comes to features, i really think we have to take new users in mind. We've been stuck with LL styled viewers for years, and they're not noob friendly. Maybe some opensim-specific things such as megaregion land texture tools for ex
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A simple checkbox on a texture should mark it as a 1-bit alpha mask.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|penny ++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vross grid im would be interesting but dependant on the grids that support it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*cross
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd like to see a way to add menu items.. like under the help section or a new dropdown for customized entries, things like certain web pages, HG links, etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We should be able to have common IM groups between OSgrid and 3rd Rock Grid for example
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dan: you can already do that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its in the .xml files
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dan: XML hacks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Worth considering having an easier way to do it, though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my point. Not that User-friendly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|an easy way would be nice.. like in an ini file
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, but like if you log in A grid you get menus from A grid and if you log into Kitten grid you get entries suitable for Kittengrid....?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about gridder support
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one thing i think would benefit devs of opensim is a way of displaying the actual mesh of a prim or sculptie
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to see user defined normal maps.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think again thats down to the grids that would support the feature
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to help with HyperGrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think XUI is good enough for menus. (same thing can't said fo other UI elements)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle: wireframe display is already in the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle: Can you explain that? Display the mesh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wireframe doesnt display the physics mesh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can display the collision box... is that what you want, Adelle?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is no physicss mesh. You mean bounding box? That's in the viewer too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Among the modification I made, there is a tool to see the path/profile of a prim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a sculptie has an actual physics mesh, but there is not way to actually highlight that mesh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is a physics mesh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a boundaing box, not a mesh for physics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But physics mesh is server-side...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. If I recall correctly, sculpties use a sphere for the physics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not here, jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nope, not in Opensim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not here? Interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we use a mesh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dahlia would be able to explain better as i believe she implemented it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Neat :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope... a sculpty can actually interact with a user in a way that's true to it's shape if a simulator is configured for it. Most are... it's the default settings.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's pretty cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|VERY cool. :) Means you can do true sculpted terrain. See Neb's deathrace sim for a good example of that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesome, I'll have to check it out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how dose that effect the sims memory usage?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or the terrain in bade plaza
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|terrain around bade plaza*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|im not sure about memory, but it does increase CPU a little
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but im assuming that is only when colissions occur
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Doesn't really, Haku. No more than any other prim. Can boost CPU usage a tad, and of course the more AVs you have, the harder physics has to work.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|im not right up on the working of it though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the sky, water, etc. could that be defined by the simulator?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, neat. What other sort of viewer stuff?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall: thats lightshare
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|say, I want no water - no terrain, all deep space
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|was just wondering i know sculpts dont do much for my it's scripts that cripple my server more then anything
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+1 BlueWall
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or all underwater
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+1 space sims
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting *taking notes*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not my idea, but since Bob Wellman isn't here, I'll shout it out for him. Heightmaps for water.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a map for the water, like the terrain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so they water tyabel could be adjusted across the sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be messy for reflection calculation...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could be sent like terrain is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohh also prim heavy av's they defenetly cripple it and somehow if there to prim heavy i start getting attachment errors
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| colspan="2"|''Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (RC1) 54cedfe: 2010-04-08 15:57:57 -0700 (Unix/Mono)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh water, it would be nice if the viewer rendered the 8 surrounding regions water at teh same height as the region you are in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|provided they are void
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good point, Adelle
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wouldn't that be rather a grid policy thing ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or, be able to make creeks, ponds at different altitudes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|++Blue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the clouds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall ++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and partiocles in general
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sculpted water FTW!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we could use more than 4x4m
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well rot water at different alt's the simple work around is an animated texture on a prim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the cloud layers could be adjustable all the way to the water/ground
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|grr turning on light cant see half my keys brb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nimble?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or two regions with different ground/water levels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would also LOVE to see oblong sculpties fixed. I'm not sure how they're fubared, exactly... but they are.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, with the lightshare, you could also make dynamic weather in the sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|including snow, rain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall +1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agreed would be awesome
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The neverchanging clouds now is boring.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus: Could you describe briefly what the problem with oblong sculpties is? I'm not familiar with it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it wil be, lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like to see more documentation on sim configuration actually
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great idea... I love it. Sounda hard though... you'd have to "occlude" the elements... no raining in your house.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|use the source Luke
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| colspan="2"|''Haku Mhia facepalms at the pun''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, it is like the clouds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's the situation with TP'ing from one grid to another, currently? I know that Meerkat had it working at one point, although it was extremely buggy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| colspan="2"|''Baewyn Celara lets out a loud groan''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haku, they are changing and evolving that fast atm, its hard to keep up, the source and IRC are your manuals ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah... unfortunately, OpenSim has been in such flux that documentation is a hard thing to do. Lots of word of mouth with that right now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fair point but maby something to keepin mind for the future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be nice to see HyperGrid done right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it will ahpen one day when things stabalise a bit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Meerkat's grid2grid TO relied on being able to end a session on one grid, and start one on another without restarting the viewer. From forum posts I've seen, that's a difficult challenge.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*happen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall +1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hypergrid ? vwrap ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe by integrating some of the gridder policies in the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think oblong sculpting wouldn't be too hard. I tried profile cutting a sculptie and it decreased the details around that axis.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vwrap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i believe that is Diva's misson BlueWall
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Diva made Grider to help with HyperGrid on the viewer side: http://github.com/diva/Grider
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hypergrid and vwrap each refer to methods for intergrid travel, Pete.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, that needs to be part of the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah i know i was just wondering about hypergrid nowadays
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hypergrid works now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oops.. mea culpa. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but on both grids you have to have an account right ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes but lots of drawbacks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|VWRAP and the old Cable Beach and the new SimianGrid, all focus on services. To be able to support that, you have to be able to handle multiple different asset services for example.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the assets and inventory are the issues
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure. Anyhow, it's the fture
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, none of the LL-based viewers have great support for multiple grids per session. The viewer wasn't built for that, so the guts will have to be rearranged quite a bit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think vwrap wil be a looooong time comming
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haku: you don't need accounts on both grids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hypergrid doesn't require mutliple accounts... it sorta kinda designates "home" services for a foriegn region to refer to.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk was just wondering ....clueless about hypergrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not that sure about vwrap taking that long. the urge is strong
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|im not sure if it is much relevant, but may be at some point in the future, but that is a 4th object permissions box, for 'grid transfer', so along with the traditional copy, mod, xfer, there is one that denotes whether people can export/import it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BlueWall: I think so too. But on the other hand, Hurli has a reputation for working very fast in bursts :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the issue is having some assets that have certain perms on your grid, then having someone HG off top their standalone and invoking God powers to nix them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|VWRAP has lots od mailing list discussions... and that's all. No drafts, no nothing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus: that's not stopping Hurli
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mic Bowman:
| style="white-space:normal;"|??
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have alot of questions about it i'll save for another time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would take a lot of the onus away from the viewer having to lock export/import to the traditional 3 perms and or the creator etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope not. Penny. But then nothing usually does stop him. Hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mic Bowman:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's quite a bit of discussion on going about vwrap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Speaking of perms...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus : reason why, as always in Open source projects, developpers begin to experiment
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think support for an explicit permission allowing intergrid ex/import might solve a lot of problems.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(right now)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus +1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats what i said :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's more a question of authoritative intergrid services
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, a checkbox for grid transfer like Adelle and Marcus say would be good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just not in those words hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like internet NICs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's not a great idea.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is my understanding that gridder does some of that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are some annoying things you guys face in your day-to-day OpenSim use that could be improved in the viewer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no cofee machine included !!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|inventory backup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that not easy to say for the moast part Hippo pwons
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|inventory backup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kiding... kidding
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|somwe of the things like the SL specific things we see
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A way to whack the OpenSim devs with a fish.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the general search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have it atm, but is simulator based, so anyone that doesnt ahve a sim cannot backup their inventory
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maby a change to the inventory ui
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marcus : +5
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haku +
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You need to understand that therre are two different things going on in VWRAP at the IETF. One is working towards some interop mechanisms. But another is fighting to stop LL from turning VWRAP into something that helps nobody but them. So you sometimes don't see much visible progress, but it's still useful by stopping LL from moving interop backwards.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. A way to back up your whole inventory in one go?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some sort of a inventory export cap?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Support for OAR/IAR files in the viewer would be swEEEEEt.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes Jacek, or even partly, and restore as a whole or partly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agreed Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ye4s jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|God tools for OpenSim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|od tools work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|god*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or will
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the filters are hidden away under the file tab i'd like to see a drop down menu to filter certain asset types in your inventory ie scripts, clothing, objects ect just makes it easyer to access
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about alpha avatar skins?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh yes, an option to reset filters on login
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and inventory links too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that one should be easy?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shared media from SL 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|improved rendering
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know a simple fix but i think it would make inventory more user friendly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence probably can't pack flush plugin... err, I mean Flash plugin and H.264 decoding, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another avatar clothes layer, the under-underwear layer for atttoos and such
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*tattoos
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haku: Tell us about it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well it's kinda taken from nielife tbh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, you mean the filters you said before
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was a feature of that viewer i liked
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli had a parsing error 8)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pete Atolia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|definitely
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gray avatars. That's a daily hassle for us. I know there are server side tweaks that try to address that... but would viewer side tweaks help further, I wonder?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Avatar textures not loading / being slow?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh yeah a rebake avatars on screen.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i really think that is more of a lost packet issue, Marcus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yup... but could a viewer re-request that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not sure if it should be manual (menu item) or automatic, but it would be nice either way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But then how do you know fetching failed?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|manual would be a good start
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|manual would be better for cup / mem usage
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*cpu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know the legal ins-and-aouts, but if there are issues that some inside info would help, it would be nice to see
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good idea Marcus. OSgrid ended up adding a web-driven avatar reload facility, as a terrible kludge for avatars that won't rez. That could be done properly now, with a viewer that supports Opensim directly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you mean the purge appearence, Penny?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, that would be cool if viewer driven
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|@BlueWall: The Flash video/H.264
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that Jacek, works by purging the avatar appearence tables for said avatar in the grid DB
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i cant think of an automates method that wouldnt require reatative clause checks or update calls
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*repatitive
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The viewer code doesn;'t load Flash itself, and doesn't need to. Webkit simply loads the existing Flash plugin if you have it installed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does the user's viewer then re-bake and upload after the appearance table purge?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(In the V2.0 MoapP facility)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or how does that go?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it only works after a relog and turns you back to Ruth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahhh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ug
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all attachments and clothes are basically taken off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gotcha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was under the impression that was meant for worst case, i.e. people who are persistance clouds.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is, and is probably used less frequently these days, but is still a handy tool for corrupt textures and stuff that are uploaded and applied
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a lot of times, just taking off everything works
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the persistant clouds is something ll havent even fixed as to my knoledge
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you are a cloud though blueWall, the vieer wont let you change your appearence at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|theres something we could change
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|allow editing even thogh the appearance hasn't loaded fully
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Someone mentioned earlier SL-specific things as being an annoyance. What are some examples of that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the general search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or abort appearance to ruth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that takes you to the SL search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Search really is a pain.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the crappy basic avatar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|search is pretty much broken on OSgrid atm :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ANything that has a hardcoded URI is dterimental
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there a replacement search page for OSGrid?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it only works for avatars and groups
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i read some threads about osgrid search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|check the forums on that topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the All (wenb) one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|search works fine if one would finish it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the All tab deos not though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|showcase
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the crawler is turned off atm on OSgrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cos its broke
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One of the great things about viewer dev interest in OpenSim is that the OpenSim devs just don't bother with some things because they can't change the veiwer. Search is probably a good example of one of those things.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, we need a replaement then :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maby 2 types of search thou .... local grid and hypergrid search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think we are waiting until we go P-R before it will be fixed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's the rules, no peeking at the viewer code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haku++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have search working with everything that can work without viewer mods, so i can release that if osg would want it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, so that's something for server and viewer devs to work with each other
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|inclusion of all the specific ossl functions into the script function library would be nice :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thesim could send a packet to tell the viewer those things, if it were interested
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suspect more than a few things would require protocol changes/tweaks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In fact, lots of types of search! LL never provided anything but the most rudimentary things to search. Sounds like we could do with some search services. In fact, I'm tempted to bring it up in VWRAP, just to stir some discussion about search.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe some extension like the gridinfo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny ++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|al those things should be open - search , events, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|simulator version in the viewer header bar would be cool also
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Basically, if something exists, it should be searchable. That broad :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think that was in neillife
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim should allow region crawling by search engines, so outside people can run their own search engine search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know something that I'd love that requires a new packet, probably. And that would be custom linden plants. They all live viewer side at the moment... would love to see the data for those moved server side and sent to the viewer. Plant parameters set via a script.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle you can get that in the estate tools
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be nice to just have it 'there' though ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oof, another crash. Can someone IM me the past 3 minutes or so of chat?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|15 people send jacek 3 mins of chat... <grin>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if outside services could crawl regions, a search engine like google could provide hypergrid search support
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool, though I don't know if I like google being able to do that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ill pastebin the full log for you after the meeting if you like, Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JacekL I would normally, but 1 FPS today :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would have to be presented in the right way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be handy, Adelle :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well yeah if you have a dedecated website to hypergrid search funnction
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, a first step would be getting the searches and things aimed at the grid your' on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eeach grid sends db info to that site that is hypergrid compatable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Blue++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think Diva already has something like that setup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Diva could probably use some viewer support in that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, so Search is an issue. What are other SL-specific annoying things?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey, do abuse/bug reports in the viewer point to LL specific services?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|atm i have 45 gb mothly bandwidth on a free hosting site for example
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they do not
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have abuse reports working, so i know that :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you remember the orientation island tutorial?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that wouuuld be fine for a search engin wouldnt it ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/?p=17 <-- Diva's serach thingy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|knowing how to fire that up wold be pretty grand
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Diva would be a good person to ask for ideas --- her Diva Distro might well have some wishlist requirements.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|loginXML setting i believe bluewall
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahhh, ok, Tnx
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|slurls
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+++++++++++++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|++!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|osurls
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| colspan="2"|''BlueWall Slade P''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's an osim: spec out there somewheres, ain'tthere?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YES Adelle+=100
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there an alternative protocol for that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about scrapping slurs for a different format
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|save them getting confused with sl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mvurl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim://regionname/coords :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ideally something that communicates the grid location in addition to the region and coordinates
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or ogulr
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or something similar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|osurl://grid/region/x/y/z
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim://osgrid.org/reginname/coords
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mvurl://gridname.regionname/x/y/z
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do any of these exist yet? As proposals?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not that I am aware of
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|DrScofield fielded an idea a while ago: http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/2009/01/07/addressing-places-in-virtual-worldsor-why-slurls-are-bad/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maps.osgrid.org/region/x/y/z ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim://example.net:8002/regionname/coords
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well im thjinking hypergrid compatability
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since there are multiple grids now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rezzme: is pretty cool name.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hence why gridname is in two of the idea put forth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hypergrid seems to be the future of opensource sl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah... DrSco's idea is pretty solid.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|until the assets/inventory are worked out the hg won't be in a lot of places
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah but it's a feature alot of ppl are interested in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HG is very proof of concept right now. It's wanted, and there's lots of enthusiasm, but it's a prototype still.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it works great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|better that OGP ever did
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thing is if the unified code can be created grid hosters will use it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We lose jacek again?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yikes, Jacek crashed again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I blame the children.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe she should try Hippo :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i blame hamsters
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The hamsters have escaped the wheel! Run for your lives!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hamburgers?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wibble, jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli returns from another crash, and underlines "Stability" three times in her notes''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| colspan="2"|''Marcus Llewellyn grins impishly at jacek''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You do have media off, right? Neb's video screen is inimical to virtual life :P I always keep my back to it :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hyper grid seems the next evolutin for these grids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Baewyn Celara:
| style="white-space:normal;"|og gtg nice hearing and talking about things to have bye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The point is that a viewer shouln't be dependent on any single grid, really.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Revolution Smythe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cya Baewyn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Baewyn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|B'bye, Baewyn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well the grid problem is dependant on each grids asperations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|g'bye Baewyn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye Baeweyn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some are focused on comunity inter action
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then it maybe shoudln't be called a "viewer". A "viewer" is a client coupled with LL's "generator".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes. Hypergrid is basically one variation on the direction that VWRAP/CB/SimianGrid is taking --- decoupled asset services.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, since we're at the end of the hour, I'd like to abuse my powers as UXIG organizer to plug Imprudence, which has implemented several of the things suggested today. }:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some are focused on makeing profit or other concepts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Free liquor?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No free liquor yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|damnit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will make free booze afer i finish my claw sabers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will file a report on the OpenSUSE crashes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does Impridence have a bug tracker? I know there's forums/wiki...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will give a quick try at building it here to see if it wil fly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But it does have content export, radar, quick-filter in th inventory, and others. And soon it will have LightShare, AO, and more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, one last thing, there is a bug where you can't TP over 4096 grid cells, if that could be fixed it would be a major bonus for getting people to use Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| colspan="2"|''Marcus Llewellyn whispers: Adelle++++''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sim froze as i was setting my llset prim pramiters function
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Neopallium Granville:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle ++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, we have an issue tracker, if you're experienced with bug reports feel free to use it: http://redmine.imprudenceviewer.org/projects/imprudence/issues
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, that is an old one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Danke, Jacek. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ya know... it's harder to think of things than I thought. You get so used to not having some things, or working around others, that they fall out of your brain.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe i know that feeling
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lost the marbles, eh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well sofar i tryed to work on the things i really liked about other viewers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If anything pops into your head later, email me -- jacek.antonelli at gmail.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nielife for example had some really great featurres outside onf it's copybot stuff
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The post to the OpenSim-user list was awesome jacek. I might have missed the meeting if not for that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the built in ao thing it got from emmerald was nice too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Emerald AO's are a kludge, though. :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not saying it couldnt be done better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yup, it definitely needs a UI redesign
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Emerald's AO is awkward. But, better than nothing. We've ported it for the next version of Imprudence, but I'd like to come up with something better later
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and boobie4 wobble needed some rework
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about a viewer based translator?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like the one in Snowglobe?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for this meeting, Jacek, and especially for having it on OSgrid ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is a great idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of a scripted one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd prefer to see that as a hud item
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe, it was fun
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes thanks Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle: Well, every grid needs a UXIG.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you ever need any info on OSgrid, the please do give myself, Nebadon, Coyled or Hiro a shout in IRC
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's doable without adding to viewer as it is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll be having another discussion next week, same time, same place. The topic will be: How the viewer might evolve if it weren't limited to SL compatibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll probably get into some pretty far-out wild stuff
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohhhhhh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gotta admit i totally loved this discussion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sounds great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great topic, Jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would only be better if we had software devs here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny: Hehe, great topic yourself. You came up with them back in November :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|first login - the avatar crawls out of a box of packing peanuts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol Blue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Haku Mhia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and really good to get an idea bout what others here are thinking
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think we'll adjourn for this week. I hope to see you guys next week as well. Thanks for coming, and take care! :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|dan banner:
| style="white-space:normal;"|later jacek, thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|BlueWall Slade:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Marcus Llewellyn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks so very much, jacek. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adelle, would you mind pastebinning the transcript for me? <3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take care :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Adelle Fitzgerald:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk, if you hang about a sec, Jacek, ill pastebin this log
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-04-09T15:34:10Z

Jacek Antonelli: April 8 - Future of UXIG

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-08|April 8]] - Future of UXIG
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-01|April 1]] - Reducing the viewer's footprint
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25|March 25]] - Direct Manipulation Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-08

2010-04-09T03:20:05Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 08, 2010. '''Topic: Future of UXIG.''' == Summary == We discussed the future of the User Experience Intere...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for April 08, 2010.

'''Topic: Future of UXIG.'''

== Summary ==

We discussed the future of the User Experience Interest Group. Jacek is leaving Second Life at the end of April, so there are three possibilities for UXIG:

# Discontinue UXIG.
# Find a new organizer.
# Move to OpenSim and change focus.

Jacek will gather more opinions, then make a decision on what to do. The next two week's meetings will be held on OpenSim, then Jacek's decision will take effect.

After the hour, we changed topic and discussed Viewer 2.0 features that were worth backporting to SL 1.x-based viewers.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think let's get started
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I said in group chat, this is probably going to be the last UXIG meeting in SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awwww
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen can you stop the sit, makes me feel a bit...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It wasn't spinning to being with!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Was it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's still spinning
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been dringing last night and it is only 8am here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Weird, it doesn't work in my viewer...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably there's a targetOmega on the prim set that our viewers are still rotating?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, it's just viewer-side spinning doesn't work on my Viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it rotates for me (Snow Test Build 1.4)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is the buildui branch on GitHub...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In short, I don't plan on logging in to SL anymore after this month. So there are three possibilities for UXIG:
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure about you peeps, but I can't run viewer 2 to my satisfaction and can't be arsed to make it work, which is kind of sad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1) Stop meeting altogether, 2) I hand it off to someone else to organize, or 3) Continue on in OpenSim, as part of Imprudence.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really Jacek, weird because I hardly log myself
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually the meetings is one of the few things that make me log at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Same with me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although, I feel tht the meetings doesn't get any effect at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, this is the only thing I log in to SL for, now that Imprudence developer meetings are on OpenSim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe it's better to end it or only hold meetings when there's a topic.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how do you mean Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think OpenSim may be a good idea, but technically less reliable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|From the establishment of UXIG to now, how many meetings actually had changed the user experience in SL/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen we have had some indirect influence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted would like to imagine interested parties still read the transcripts''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hard to recall, but lots of issues raised here have been addressed in one way or another
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If we moved to OpenSim, we wouldn't be discussing SL user experience anymore. The point would be to discuss user experience issues that can be fixed in Imprudence or OpenSim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think LL have taken lots of hints, not to mention third party and patch devs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: Our Imprudence meeting in 3rd Rock Grid was terrific, over a dozen of us there, and 100% stable. Total success.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then it would be worth it to continue holding UXIG, in SL or otherwise.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|less policy I suppose Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HUGE SUCCESS
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Explain further why you think it would be worth it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good to hear Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it has a positive effect on people's lives.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, another idea: we don't have to talk about virtual world experiences at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you mean continue as it is now (discussing SL topics, in SL)? Or continue in OpenSim as I mentioned?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seeing the end makes me sad, but all things come to the end
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe both?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Every other week thing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or talk about user interfaces in general, not related to virtual worlds.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wouldn't be attending meetings in SL, so someone else would need to organize them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like an UXIG to continue, but I think there is a problem with the fact that transcripts are hosted in SL wiki. If you make UXIG an all-worlds group, that would be very cool. But transcripts would need hosting elsewhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|weekly agenda makes most sense, but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(To Jacek)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth is too lazy to organize them, but he does put seats down every time''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Tech
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: If we move to OpenSim, I'll be copying the existing transcripts to the Imprudence wiki, and posting new ones on the Imp wiki only.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And likewise setting up a new mailing list for announcements and discussion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: that would be fine. You created the group after LL lost interest in User Experience after all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nobody uses sl-ux anyway.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could we discuss the future of Imprudence development once we agree on the meeting agenda
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods. We've tried to use it but there was no point when LL wouldn't participate''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not lost interest in user experience; they lost interest in users and instead turned to user proxies.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Expert evaluation is cheap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: next Imprudence meeting is in ReactionGrid. Not sure if on Wednesday again, probably.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Expert ideas, on the other paw, is not.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you are kind of right Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, next ImpDev is on ReactionGrid next Wednesday at 19:00 UTC
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just look how costly Viewer2 is to LL! XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ta
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I never signed to Reaction, but I suppose I will now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very true, Gen. Viewer2.0 cost them a lot more than they imagined.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer 2 is a loss in my eyes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it sure was the begining of the end for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd be up for talking about the things we like (and want to steal from) viewer 2.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oooh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it possible?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: yeah the signing up on other grids is a total pain, but I guess we have to suffer a bit until we have proper interop.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want the notification system and the alpha layer! (sans the actual notifications, they are still inconsistant as ever)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Need to promote OpenID for open grids
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup Morg I wish there was an avie registry like we discussed in the past
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"no blue popups that demand attention", yes - I wonder how to do it well?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, what are your guys' thoughts? 1) Discontinue UXIG, 2) Continue in SL with a different organizer, or 3) Move to OpenSim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods. There are a few things from 2.0 I'd love to see 1.23 backports for; the ui's not one of them''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alternate between SL/OpenSim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: move to Opensim (and other worlds, as they appear)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we want to follow you if you're still willing to organize, Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, and the UI is the selling point...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted is fine with moving to opensim if you are, jacek''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL should still be treated as ONE world, no? Or abandon it totally because of dire legal conditions?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek's gonna leave.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I might be staying.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, you assume the meetings with Joe Linden will not change the tpv, or you give up on SL/LL anyway?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sad really, having a regular but informal group like UXIG is an exception for Second Life™
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted will be keeping his av around just for popping to IM until a working agent domain is up''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I'm done with SL. Just tying up loose ends, then I'm gone.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, kk. Well in that case, I go with whatever Jacek decides. Jacek's done an excellent job of leading UXIG, and I'm sure that will continue in open worlds.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, and to think my first time in the Resident Experience OH was to ask about joysticks... but it was (and still is) an interface malfunction.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG, I didn't realise everyone feels so lost about LL, I do
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think the TPV policy is going to change much, nor LL's increasingly lawyer-driven mode of operation.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods in agreement''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sadly, aye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the TPV is. But I agree they are just going to be lawyer-driven as ever.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*more than ever.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean the TPV is likely to change.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If somehow the TPV did get fixed so that it was acceptable, I'd probably still leave, except perhaps to test Imprudence things here when I have to.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You won't see any proceed-and-permit letters from this generation of Lindens, for sure...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence should remain compliant with Second Life™
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence will not break SL compability unless necessary, that's what I heard.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's right. Not intentionally, anyway. It might get accidently broken.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like shared media?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Curious, because of my background in VWRAP, I think that SL will return to us, rather than the other way around. The Opensim worlds are dictating what SL will do through VWRAP, largely through John Hurliman's integration of Cable Beach into VWRAP. In time, SL will lose its walled gardenness, and chase where the open worlds went a long time ago.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Dzon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heya Dzon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahoy dzonatas :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice av Dzon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sit down hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: you used the word "compliant". That's definitely wrong. Backwards compatible, sure, because Opensim is backwards compatible too. But not restricted by SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not restricted by SL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, that was what rubbed devs so badly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean compliant as in Second Life™ capable, just not sure on the 'policy' side Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adding packet types is bound to break SL compability....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Opensim's moving into quite unknown territory, and LL sure as hell doesn't restrict their progress.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods. I'm very happy to be moving in a different direction than LL's currenty headed''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted waves to boroondas''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Bor :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Bor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heya
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko, adding packet types causes breakage UNLESS there's an "if new packets supported" condition like there should be for any kind of backwards compatibility...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mkay. Unless there are any more opinions on what to do with UXIG, I suppose we can move on to other topics, like "what to steal from viewer 2.0"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there any point in remaining here for UXIG untill it really isn't feasible any longer instead of leaving now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How long do you think it will take for OpenSim to influence Snowglobe?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: I think, SL still needs a UXIG.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oooh, idea .... add OpenID integration into Impru for automated login. I think John Hurliman's SimianGrid already supports it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But so does OpenSim, and it needs a UXIG more badly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree Gen, but the Linden OH are really just bug fixing so I don't go to them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just bug fixing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Resident_Experience_Team_Office_Hours_Transcripts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Everyone needs UXIG. I think it's a nice idea that Jacek is starting a metaverse Special Interest Group :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(If that's what's decided)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|MUXSIG?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|MUXSIGWUGGLE
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova 's tongue gets tied in knots''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll send something to the mailing list to gather more feedback, and see if anyone is willing to organize SL meetings
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Plain UXIG is fine. "UXIG is a metaverse SIG"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|considering the turnout here I do see some point in remaining in Second Life™ for some time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods at morgaine''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Multiverse user experience special interest gang whatever useful gizmo loft enplement?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|perhaps a facebook group?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|MUSIG... =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like a round robin approach, treating all worlds equally. However, I recognize that LL is making it very hard to include them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it would be unfair to treat small grids same as large grids. (OpenSim doesn't count.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|special interests isn't really waht we deal with
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*(OsGrid)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OSGrid is the www of the metaverse.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Metaverse User Experience would be a good enough name
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, more like Napster...? Or UUCP? eMule?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: how about postponing the decision until we see whether Joe's meeting really means business or is just more PR?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree with Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Joe does mean bussines, the question is if legal sees the same way.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boroondas++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unfortunately, I don't think the problem is Legal. If you listen to Marty Linden's audio brown bag meeting, he said the OPPOSITE of the TPV.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morg: Alright. We've got two OpenSim-related topics on the list, so we can meet in OpenSim for those.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what viewer are you on Boroonds? your skirt didn't render for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Marty == Legal counsel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snowglobe 1 series, trunk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not rendering for me either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow weird, same here (1.4)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And see in 2 weeks whether LL is going to do anything about the TPVP
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let me rebake
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm seeing a gray full-lenght skirk too (also on snow 1.4)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ditto gray skirt, Impru
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same here Thinck
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is full-lenght (but not gray)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|corrupt asset ( texture)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything else you guys want to talk about today? We've got a little bit of time left.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2.0 backports, yes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"what to steal from 2.0" will be a great topic, yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|viewer-side ao: how about using gestures instead of a new ui?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suggest it be rephrased, because there are people out there who don't know the GPL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice feature of 2.0 viewer: avatar alphas. relatively easy; slam dunk "yes".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gestures don't loop.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"What to take from LL 2.0 sources under GPL license."
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice feature of 2.0 viewer: outfits with symlinks rather than copies. very popular.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about the top scripts changes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, tattoos
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice feature of 2.0 viewer: interface is XML tweakable. Not Easy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the idea was born here (symlinks, shortcuts, aliases whatever you call it)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which also needs server support and confusing if you log back with a 1.23 series (you get a different outfit than the one you worn in 2.0)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it used to be one of my pet Inventory subjects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ha, that's one thing UXIG rocked the user experience!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, LL takes lots of ideas from us actually. Even Q's Firefly archiecture came from us, albeit corrupted dreadfully.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The user interface has always been XML tweakable (not easy). I translated the whole thing to Chinese.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice feature of 2.0 viewer: prim media. worthwhile, trivial on server-side, and provides a lot of power. the webkit stuff is do-able. handling focus issues is Not Easy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think eventually we'll backport the UI engine (but make it look and act like the current Imprudence)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth wants gtkwebkit''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer 2.0's UI is even more XML-tweakable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL currently uses QT.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prim media has a lot of 'negative' implications too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm? I'll check it out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzonatas is here, and he's got a better approach to decoupling the UI. SNOW-375
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|emerald's currenting rebasing to 2.0... will be curious to see how that goes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Snowglobe 1.4 has a partial implementation of the media-prim focus (needs some tweaks to work , though), so that can be borrowd (relatively) easily.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods. I really liked that patch. I haven't tried the binary you posted dzontas. Have you updated it much?''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG I just noticed some of you don't have voice (McCabe, Gen Latha...)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm a SNOW-375 hater. It involves cooking up a custom API.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, I only see 3 people in the local voice channel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, was somebody talking? I could turn voice on.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Voice is off for me currently, Charlette. It's usual on, but Vivox died in this zone and won't restart
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth didn't pack voice with his buildui viewer''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think you'd have to cook up a custom API no matter how you handle it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's still being worked on http://twitpic.com/1di6z1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no Latha, just curious about voice disabled users (a new thing for me)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Guess I could change it to KDE style interface like 2.0... easy to do with gnome
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| colspan="2"|''Thickbrick Sleaford is voice disabled when he's skype-enabled.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted looks over at the tangle of wires by his desk, thinks, "I have a mic in there.... somewhere"''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry I only mentioned it in context of Viewer 2 voice teething problems
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it = voice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|custom API isn't a problem with SNOW-375... it's a problem with any UI being made
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe, did Dzon's patch work with Imprudence sources?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will snowglobe be maintaining a 1.x branch along with 2.x?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for now, yes, but we don't know for how long
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe, for some time to come, yes. Seems to be based on developer interest.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at least until all snowglobe-specific features have been ported to the 2.x branch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: official LL policy is that 1.x support will be dropped entirely, and no 2.0 features backported. We're not totally sure where Snow stands
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it did work, although highly buggy and windows-only
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Merov said we'll have code support for 1.4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|phone support is to be dropped for 1.x
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"code support"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzon: oh!! That must have been minutes aftre I left to come here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can you paste his lines please, Dzon?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We will be keeping SG 1.x maintained for a long time. Having merov build binaries is anotehr question. It seems to be a major problem currently.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But he does plan to do that for the forseeable future, I think.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You were there morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good to know
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the killer is "No packport to 1.x"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If 1.x has no MoaP for example, it;'s dead
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nothing keeping us from backporting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: I meant Snow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, you're reading way to much policy into what is inertia, basically.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the question is, is it worth it, or should we try to forward port the old UI.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|submit a patch for that, and I'll be happy to review and commit it to sg 1.4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Think: no, I'm just stating what T Linden said, almost verbatim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thick*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|T linden doesn't do backports to snowglobe, that's true.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, yes, I means Snowglobe, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, maybe this would be a case of "divided we stand". http://www.thefulcrum.ca/articles/30220
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*meant
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: yeah, that's why I said "we don't know" for Snow. T Linden barely has Snow on the radar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, any thoughts on the pros/cons of prim media support?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I assume (since it's so darn easy on server-side) that opensim folks will get it in ASAP.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|privacy concerns, perhaps...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suspect prim media can introduce a myriad of security problems
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be useful, if we can address the privacy/security stuff. For example, have an option not to load anything without the user's consent.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't have any concerns at all, myself, and don't want it to stop us from a super powerful feature.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Turn it off if you must.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But that interview with T was pretty distressing. He more or less said that anyone who didn't like the LL policies were free to leave, and he specifically used the phrased "we are sticking to our guns".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or only load stuff from objects owned by land owner.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-O
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|recent llqtwebkit versions has support for disabling js/plugins.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted makes a note to ping the opensim people about whether that's in their roadmap''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|awesome, McCabe, thanks for that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's such noisy concern about security with prim media, but I just can't see it at all. Is it truly such a showstopper?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If there's a way to turn the feature off, I don't think it's a showstopper
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe both Edelman Linden (interview) and Samuel Linden (OH) stated that turning Javascript and Flash off would be available in the next release or two of Viewer 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it can easily be turned off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Security, I don't think so, more about privacy and choice. And giving user the control of his own bandwidth.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Think of the griefing possibilities...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for the viewer ora case-by-case basis?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|put 100 FursuitTVs on a rezzer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Watch ping go to 1000000ms.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|security = privacy if you like Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not a big concern with code leakage into the viewer, as it's a different process. But considering the gaping holes in omst plugins, it has the normal web vulnerabilities (pdf, etc.) plus privacy issues.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pretty clearly, we'll want to make sure to have some handy controls for te user, hopefully including case-by-case.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|On the web, you have to go to a malicious page by choice. With MoaP, the griefers come to you.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure if there is a security issue greater than privacy gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it would be secure, if we don't allow any browser pugins, there is little possibility you get arbitary execution.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what I'd like is regex-based white/black-listing on URLs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|AdBlock?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|NoScript
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|use a hosts file
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hosts can only handle the domain part
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We would want our viewer to opt into Google's harmful websites list.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do and hardly ever see ads or popups load anything
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or rather, me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So anybody can just put up a shared media url now and use that to get everybody's IPAddress?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think a "block this prim" option on each media prim's context menu is important.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's why I said it would be good idea to not autoplay unless owned by land owner...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think so Dzon, voice always has this problem too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When you see a MoaP texture, it should be marked with an indicator ">>" arrow or something. Theh you choose to enable scripts FROM THAT SITE ALONE by clicking on it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the UI questions -- mouse/keyboard focus especially -- are the interesting challenge of prim media.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see the owner name too Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just like NoScript, and FlashBlock do.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think LL did a pretty nifty job with the UI and focus stuff, so maybe just steal that as-is.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless you got P2P checkmarked by you Friend in the Contacts list that so happened to make such shared media, block otherwise
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, prim focus works great on 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UI is a disaster
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|much better than chat focus ;-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe limit the number of active MoaP on screen at one time as well?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|** UI aspects regarding prim media, I meant, Morgaine.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not touching viewer 2 till they bring a series 1 skin or something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latha: ah, kk. Except that it's not actually very good, the control bar for MoaP is very unwieldy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pie menus solve everything!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup the media UI tool in viewer 2 is total fail
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the MoaP control bar should be in the viewer border, with a black line connecting it to the prim with the media texture, just like tags are.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe some Resident will make a Viewer 1.x-like UI. I recall that they weren't even going to include the old gray skin after Dazzle, until someone (McCabe?) make a new skin directory for it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The control bar is a little curious, but I think it's a very hard thing to do -- what prims have web on them, how do I know, how do I start it, how do I click on it, etc -- and what they did works quite intuitively for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latha: hence the line from the border. Just let people toggle from one MoaP prim to the next with ""<<" and ">>" buttons on the border.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is a clear UI fail is how to add media to a prim. Even Soft didn't see the little +-button. Major discoverability issue.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The black lines like tags use would make the source very clear
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah Bor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Applies to the other occurences of these little +es in the UI, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, I'm thinking about avatar names. I don't think I'd want them on the edge of the screen with a line pointing to the avatars. Floating above works for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"oh, that's an avatar. " "oh, that's an active prim face."
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|black lines like tags? I don't get tag lines
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I find it hard to believe that 2.0 was delivered to LL as a benefit to newcomers. Epic fail on that, the '+' discoverability being just one fail.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I said, expert ideas are costly... ^.^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, I didn't understand the "tag" thing either.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Flaiming is too easy, you guys.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't seen these lines in ages
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth has.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I only get lines when some tags are "pushed away" by other tags
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tag lines: the black lines that connect a user's tag to a user's avatar, when the avatar in not in direct view.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, it's only when pushed...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but does it needs to be non-overlapping?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah OK I get it now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the name tags?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As long as it's not chat overlapping I think nametag overlapping is just fine.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it worked in Mabinogi...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Come to think of it, I haven't seen those lines in Imprudence. Aren't they implemented?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, I like the soft movement of nametags when having bubble chat enabled :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but maybe that's just me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, but you need to turn on buble chat.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The lines are still here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth doesn't like LL's bubble chat''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I actually don't read what's in the bubbles, I read the "Local Chat" floater. But I keep it enabled anyway, to see where something is being said.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, now you know what I meant by those lines. So the idea for the MoaP control is that it should appear in the frame of the viewer, once only, and that the instance of MoaP that it controls be indicated by a black line. "<<" and ">>" buttons next to that control would switch to the next MoaP texture, so the line will change. Also a "Show all MoaP sources" would be nice.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Lots of lines)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boroondas: Yeah, I want a "user recently said something" icon in the nametag too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: great idea, I hate it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova sticks tongue out at Latha :P''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One of the best features of 1.x is the media control. My MoaP control with lines would go next to the old media control.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very compact
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted wonders if he's the only one who thinks of SoaP (Snakes on a Plane) every time Morgaine mentions "MoaP"''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova chuckles (not seen it, but heard of it)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It should actually be WoaP, because that's all it is, Web. Overhyped as "Shared Media".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|isn't soap a concept for tunneling RPCs and everything else through http?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"I'm sick and tired of this muthaf***ing media on my muthaf***ing prims!"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pffpff kahahahaha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...then why do you put it on them?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Snakes on a Plane
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Was it a comedy?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not intentionally.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SotP was billed as a triple A movie and tried to do virial internet advertizing, spent a $$$$$$$$$ doing it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway... Geneko, look: a looping gesture (my walk anim, triggered by animation state changes viewer-side)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, it's not trigerring now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It isnt?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But how do you stop it without making a gesture that stops all your anims?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek/McCabe -- what are your ideas for how MoaP could be intergrate nicely into Impru?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thick: Woot, nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think AO should be animation list based.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morg: I think we'll just take a crowbar, pry open Imprudence, then jam in MoaP haphazardly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can stop an animation in another gesture, but if there is more than one gesture to start a certain state, one will be triggereed at random
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if someone would fix the default walk asset, half the AOs wouldn't be needed, anyway
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so stopping needs to accunt for that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since LL has gone first, we'll probably want to study their code for it, dontcha think? Probably the rendering part is quite straightforward, but the user-input stuff....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: not for 1.3; also depends on what opensim's plans are
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(I was traumatized when, after I made my screen wobble side-to-side with the tracking head cam, my clicks ended up going to the wrong places. )
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: ah yeah. But they're certain to add MoaP, because half of Opensim Core devs was SL backwards compatibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, MoaP is pretty much off the radar until OpenSim supports it. We've got too much other stuff to take care of, without worrying about things that aren't supported yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gotta run... good night people, and hope to see you again on this grid, Jacek.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Thick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, what else do we want to backport?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted waves. Take care, thick :)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Thick --- but join us on other grids, that's where the future lies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To Snowglobe 1, Imprudence or in general?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko, I'm thinking we might need to wind down and take more on another day? It's a big subject.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: I think we should backport the sidebar. But I don't like how Viewer2 does it. I think *everything* should go into the sidebar. EVERYTHING.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whoa.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To any 1 series based viewer. And yes, I think it's time to end the meeting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|</kidding>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|o_0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shall we make an outworld point of contact or is Imp forum the defacto
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|got me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was about to check Jacek for onset of insanity :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me too, although it mihgt not be that bad...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Had me going :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe that should have been an Imprudence April Fools joke. "We're now planning to backport the Viewer 2.0 UI, but not any of the features like alpha layers or tattoos."
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It doesn't need to be a sidebar like LL's, it could be like that one of GIMP or Inkscapes where you could flip /scroll through docked dialogues and tear them...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted snickers''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which just might work.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|resize and tear-off would address most sidebar probs...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In addition to tear-off, there should also be a tear-to-pieces option.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, that'd get used too often
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe when we port Compiz to Second Life.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...of course I'm assuming that nobody wants the world shoved sideways so that's already jettisoned.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there some regular place in open grids where you guys will just hang out?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG is, perhaps the only regular place, it's one of the reasons I do not wish to see it go... even though the meetings always run overtime.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|re outworld contact point - is Imp forum LL hosted?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The fact that we're all "group chat walled islands" is a bit of an issue. Do I need to be using IRC more?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: No.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think let's wrap things up for this week. Next two weeks will be in OpenSim to discuss two topics that have been on the list for a while, but are especially poignant these days: 1) What OpenSim developers want in a viewer, and 2) How the viewer might evolve if it wasn't limited by SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whaat about Viewer2 backports?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: I'm in VWRAP / interop. I have to eat my own dogfood, and that means using other grids.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, would it be good to have a user defined area, for which the SL camera will act as if it was the whole window? one could place floaters, sidebars etc outside of that and wouldn't occlude anything "important".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: terrific topics!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boorondas: no, it wouldn't. just zoom out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Using viewer2 doesnt' mean using SL grid.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But yeah...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: If UXIG is continuing after those two weeks, we'll talk about backports
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Next week is going to rock.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova nods''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latha, essentially, it'd change what the default zoom is (and where it's centered)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm just too excited about viewer2 topic for now, but I've been asking - nah, eager to know what OpenSim devs want ever since Imp shifted focus from SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rock on!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do we know where next week's UXIG is to be held? Same as Weds' dev meeting, in ReactionGrid?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure yet, Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably on OSGrid where OpenSIm devs/users can attend.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, OSGrid is most likely
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: good thinking!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted seconds osgrid (or sciencesim)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boorondas, hey, that could be pretty straightforward. Define a camera focus center point that happens not to be the screen center. "I'm feeling like a lefty today."
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's what they did with the sidebar, no?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latha Serevi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"whoa, I feel like I've been blinded in my right eye"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I back OpenSim myself
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, any final remarks for the transcript today?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|((It's also easy to program because OpenGL measures FOV vertically)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OSGrid that is sry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the side bar pushes the area around ... I'd like it to stay where it is, once the user has set it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good luck to LL HEHE
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:51]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth read that as "good luck to heLL"''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Final remark: Well done over the past year+ Jacek, it's been a good run, and I look forward to the future :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hellos Lindens if you listening
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Morg :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, take care everyone. See you next week for OpenSim!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:52]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted waves.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:52]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care all!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2 years of UXIG will be saddly missed, but I'll get over it
|}

FLOSS community concerns about the Linden Lab policy on third-party viewers

2010-04-05T22:28:32Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 9c */ Update: Joe Linden has said in IRC that it means "not released by Linden Lab".

__NOTOC__

Note. Also see https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Third_Party_Policy_and_Viewer_Directory_FAQ that was published after the TPV policy publication.

==Preamble==

"any Third-Party Viewer or any third-party software client that logs into our servers"

* This could read as applicable to any software that has the capability to log into the service.
** If this is the case, then people who have written clients years ago are suddenly and retroactively covered by this policy.
** There is no way to create a client that is unable to log into Second Life and yet is compatible with OpenSim
** Is a disclaimer that a client "should not be used with Linden Lab's service" enough to make someone not subject to this policy? Is a developer responsible for what their users do with the software?
** This policy becoming "agreed to" by developers through the vicarious actions of end users is probably weaker than the weakest "browse wrap" agreement. There is no meeting of the minds... the developer may not even be aware this policy exists.

==1 "Required Functionality and Disclosures" [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv1]==
===a===
"compatible with the protocol of Linden Lab’s viewers as it is documented in our source code"
*The obvious problem here is that the source code is constantly changing.

===c===
"On your software download page or in another location that a user must visit before installing the Third-Party Viewer, you must disclose the following:"
* As was raised by Robin, this is an onerous requirement for linux package maintainers where installation is largely unattended, and would push Second Life out of the main repos and into "non-free"

===h===
"The services we provide through our viewers, for example, our Land Store, the LindeX exchange, and the Xstreet SL marketplace, are designed to enhance Residents’ shared experience. We may ask you to make changes to your Third-Party Viewer if it disables certain of our services [...] If we do, you agree to make the changes we request."
*It was pointed out on the mailing list that text-only clients and many alternative clients should not and will not offer these "shared experiences".

==2 "Prohibited Features and Functionality" [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv2]==
===b===
"You must not use or provide any functionality that Linden Lab’s viewers do not have for exporting content from Second Life unless the functionality verifies that the content to be exported was created by the Second Life user who is using the Third-Party Viewer. [...]" This must be done for all content in Second Life, including content that may be set to “full permissions.”"
*This is one of the most objectionable requirements.
**Megaprims are all created by other people, so you can't export them
**Invisiprims, same deal
**Automated building assistants which use their own primitives. (There are quite a few of these.)
**Can't collaborate with someone on a project and then export it to other grids, since it will fail the creator check
**Can't build on an alt and then export it on your main... less of an issue since you can export on the alt but still very annoying.
**Can't use textures uploaded on alt when building on main, and vice versa.
**Effectively bans all export, since it's impossible to check the creator of textures, which are referenced only by UUID.
*Probably effectively bans all CC-SA-By licensed content, since such content forbids the imposition of restrictions on the right to redistribute the content.


==7 "Your Responsibility for Third-Party Viewers" [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv7]==
===a===
"You are responsible for all uses you make of Third-Party Viewers, and if you are a Developer, you are also responsible for all Third-Party Viewers that you develop or distribute."
*Developers can't be responsible for what happens with their software. The GPL specifically disclaims liability. You shouldn't try to give it back to the developers.
===c===
"Violate or promote violation of any law or the rights of any individual or entity"
*This clause is way way too vague. The laws of which state? Which country? Sharia law? What rights? EU rights? Constitutional rights? Copyrights?

===d===
"You assume all risks, expenses, and defects of any Third-Party Viewers that you use, develop, or distribute."
*Again, the GPL allows developers to disclaim liability for defects. No one is going to agree to this.
*Maybe the whole of 7d could be rephrased to something like
*:"If you use, develop or distribute any Third-Party Viewers, you do so solely at your own risk and expenses. Linden Lab shall not be responsible or liable for any Third-Party Viewers nor their defects."

==8 "Policy Changes, Enforcement, and Termination" [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv8]==

===c===
"You acknowledge and agree that we may require you to stop using or distributing a Third-Party Viewer for accessing Second Life if we determine that there is a violation."
*You can't terminate the developer's right to distribute granted under the GPL in this way.

===d===
"If we believe that your Third-Party Viewer is not in compliance, we may request that you add, modify, or remove features, functionality, code or content, and you agree to comply with the request within a reasonable timeframe specified by Linden Lab."
*No developer is going to allow Linden Lab the power to assign them development work that must be completed in a certain timeframe. That's a basically unlimited liability for the developer.

==9 "Definitions" [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv9]==
===c===
"By “Third-Party Viewer,” we mean any third-party software client on any device that logs into our servers that support Second Life. Third-Party Viewers include software for viewing Second Life, any chat clients, utilities, bots, and proxies as well as applications that may not be listed in our Viewer Directory."
*This goes back to the preamble. Apparently just creating software compatible with Second Life makes you liable for this agreement/policy. Keep in mind that the Second Life protocol has been submitted to standards bodies for standardization. The only way to opt-out of this agreement seems to be to somehow break compatibility with the Second Life service.
* The policy never defines what "third-party software" means. Presumably, "third-party" refers to a person or entity who is neither Linden Lab nor the person who must agree to the policy. So, does "third-party software" it mean software ''distributed'' by such an entity? Or is it software ''created'' by such an entity? (In which case, both the official SL viewer and Snowglobe would be third-party software, because parts of them were created by non-LL contributors.) Or does it mean something else? This ambiguity needs to be resolved; no one can be certain that they are complying with the policy, if they aren't sure what software the policy applies to.
** Update: Joe Linden has said in IRC that it means "not released by Linden Lab".

FLOSS community concerns about the Linden Lab policy on third-party viewers

2010-04-05T19:45:40Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 9c */ The policy never defines what "third-party software" means. ...

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-04-01T23:51:21Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ April 1 - Reducing the viewer's footprint

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-01|April 1]] - Reducing the viewer's footprint
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25|March 25]] - Direct Manipulation Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-04-01

2010-04-01T23:50:36Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 01, 2010. '''Topic: Reducing the viewer's footprint.''' == Summary == We talked about reducing the viewer'...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for April 01, 2010.

'''Topic: Reducing the viewer's footprint.'''

== Summary ==

We talked about reducing the viewer's "footprint" -- how much memory, bandwidth, CPU power, etc. that it uses.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can ignore it to some extent. Depends on the details
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And then nobody upheld the Tao anymore.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Kecaj
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi all. Sorry I'm late. I had to inspect the TOS before logging in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't think anything we're doing here has anywhere near that much impact, roight?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not from anywhere I have seen.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But, maybe, one day...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ツ
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You know, I missed the days where Malbers would bring prototypes to the office hour.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prototypes of policies?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, so. Shall we begin? Today's topic is reducing the viewer's "footprint" -- how much memory, bandwidth, CPU power, etc. that it uses
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wish.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I clicked-through the ToS, as usual. Anything reasonable I expect to adhere to. Anything unreasonable I reject, period.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool, Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great topic too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's kinda...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot woot the new TOS?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you make the viewer more effecient, people would just add stuff until it's slow as usual.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Charlette :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry... hi everyone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ToS didn't load for me. Maybe that's because I flipped a bool in llfloatertos.cpp, dunno :-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Maybe. But imagine we were creating a viewer meant to run on very old computers. What would be different?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: are we working on the assumption that people WANT to reduce the footprint? (I see no sign that LL wants to, for example)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heavy fog@!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it took ages to load for me too and wouldn't scroll for the first few seconds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey, Jacek, isn't the network the biggest pb, really?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be like Superman 64!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ugh-ugh. I used to have a laptop with a GeForce 8400 card, and the framerate was annoying.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I asked Esbee & Amada wha the expected footprint for Viewer2 was at the VWBPE conferenace when they were trying to sell it to educators, they had no ide a what the footprint was
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, still have a c64 ... er ... somewhere in a box
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Network use is a bit problem, yes. Especially for people with monthly bandwidth quotas
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I still think a communications-only wiewer option is in order - 1FPS or adjustible to use on low-power laptops etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Think also about "netbooks" -- lightweight, low-power laptops
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|iPad?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Now about taking each aspect of footprint in turn?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What would you do to make the viewer run acceptably well on such hardware?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you throttled the rendering task the rest (comms) would pull ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe it would be isometric...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hear Cool Viewer, lagacy renderer edition works quite good for low-end systems (old computer. netbooks not so much)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe it would look like Furcadia!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah cool is very old and there in no way to throttle rendering there either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|think of user controlled rendering load
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Furcadia is a 2d furry online world with user-customizable sprites and orthographic projection)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I heard of a brilliant viewer than works great on both high and low powered systems. It was called something like Imprudence, odd name :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Really? It seems to be the same client with all others, only freezes less....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still morgaine - imagine being able to adjust how much CPU load the rendering task gets
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haven't tested Imprudence recently. Does it run well on > 5 year old laptops?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It runs ok on one of my 5 yr old laptops
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thought LL viewer did that for you, just rendered everything grey!! lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are some of the other problems, besides bandwidth usage? High CPU usage? High memory usage? Needing to buy an expensive graphics card?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That si also a possibility, only decoding enough textures to provide a rough color for the surfaces. Now, it will look like Nintendo 64 games....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Second Life™ arcade view haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|biggest problem is the future of computing is mobile, the desktop is going to disappear so either Sl has to get nimble or mobile power has to grow rapidly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Before we leave bandwidth usage .... it should be possible to switch off what we don't want to be sent to us at the server's interest list. Currently even a text only client gets sent all the graphics. It's nuts.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There might be also a compressing proxy like Opera Mini/Opera Turbo.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Filter out bandwidth hogs like Aklo's silly title.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Decoding textures only partially would help with bandwidth, yep. Maybe also use less graphics card memory, I'm not sure.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: what happens if you send no ACKS for graphic data received?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, like prim profile params.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it gets resent, I guess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You could certainly not request textures.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But it slows down, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it may be possible to stop (or pause) requesting texture data after partially downloading it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So you'd have blurry textures all the time, but use less bandwidth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just add the bias factor a bit.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually considering the low-load Second Life™ viewer 2 load on my machine is hidieous in comparison with the legacy viewer crop
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can you simply not request any textures at all? Or does the sim populate the interest list automatically?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think surely the viewer can neglect to request any textures, or change the order
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, true, although AV's tend to look like they just splatted lipstick all over their face while drunk until that last level decodes :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: depends if it's a pull operation, of it the interest list is just streamed to you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|After all, Snowglobe modified the order textures were requested, and that didn't require any server side changes (I think)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or if*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are textures so much of the problem (besides bandwidth), in my view the rendering FPS throttle control would be the way to go
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Textures are mostly a bandwidth issue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: just talking about bandwidth reduction at this point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Throttling the render loop would certainly help with CPU usage
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bandwidth is 'cheap' CPU load is another thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bandwidth is not cheap everywhere
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Assuming you can control what you request, the more you cache, the less bandwidth you need.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah OK sorry, I missed the point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you think using a top-down view instead of a followcam would mean distant objects will not need to be sent from server?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mini Opera serverside compression solution like Gen mentioned would be your best friend
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko, that would definately require less bandwidth unless you wanted a really really high camera
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WTF?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fix the camera then (?)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you're happy rigging it you can save a bunch of stuff
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But would changing the camera angle still allow you to user SL in a meaningful way?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*to use
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|although, how would it work if you were in room with a low ceiling?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't draw the ceiling then.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''filipe Soup shouts: parei ^^''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cull plane everything above the AV?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|clip plane*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Figure out it's in the camera's way to the avatar and show it semitransparent.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oooh, yeah. mmo stylie, good point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about sculptie map textures - the shapes would break-up if you don't load those 100%
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Would you want to use SL from a top-down perspective? Seems like you would miss out on a lot.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah partially rezzed sculpties are a disaster
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, free camera movement is what sets SL apart from most "games" so I think that should be preserved even for low-bandwidth systems. Better reduce draw distance or something.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about updating the 3d view only once every 10 seconds?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nimra: then SL would no longer be a VW, it would be a slideshow.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe it's worth trying.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, wut, but more accessible than with a text only viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i came in late, bandwidth constrained systems, or generally graceful degradation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think the top-down camera would be a good solution, especially if it's main benefit is just to reduce the number of objects that must be downloaded. Lower draw distance would do just as well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nimira is right, like I said a user controlled rendering load would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to be able to modify how the LoD changes with distance.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: We're talking in general about ways to reduce the viewer's footprint -- bandwidth, memory use, CPU use, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if i can trim it down to something like my phone, for e.g., that is bandwidth and crappy OpenGL ES limited
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: we're taking apart all the components that might help in reducing the viewer footprint. One at a time hopefully
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in situations like that i would love the ability to have a top down view, or maybe 0.1fps update because it's a pretty chat client away from home then.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cache (HD/RAM) footprint besides the running app RAM is huge in Second Life™
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup :/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P 0.1 fps is once in 10 seconds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's one other thing that can reduce the bandwidth requirement, which I'll just mention in passing because we've discussed it before: (i) a working cache, and (ii) a vastly larger cache.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That can't be helped much... Google Earth has a large cache too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, that's what you suggested :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eg my phone plays games OK (Arm 11) but not enough of anything to even imagine Second Life™ on that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was intentional. crap on the desktop because i suspect you would find it felt aweful. but for constrained devices could vaguely render you a scene eventually...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like world caches to be entirely separate from viewers/clients. Any world cache should be able to benefit.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like caches to work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they are fundamentally braindamaged
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any world *client* should be able to bebefit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we decide, for e.g. to all tp to the next sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will have to wait for your textures to rez in again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh cripes, typing useless today. Getting a coffee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|== retarded.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but Google earth and other satellite viewers have persistent data (to a point) and Second Life™ cache is obsolete in a few hours
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Depends.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, yes, but a crapload of stuff in SL *is* static
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Depends if you're someone who stays mostly in a few places or if you are a gridanaut.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about the youtube approach to save bandwith through rendering as text?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even if you're a gridnout, the baked thextures for your most used outfits could be cached to avoid unneeded rebakes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your inventory is static Wut (about 200MB) but the rest seems to be downloaded each time you log
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nimra: :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You do realize it's April the 1st, right? It's a client side effect.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's one of the biggest misconceptions in SL, that "everything changes, it's all dynamic". Look around you. How much has changed since your last visit?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... well, maybe the joke's on me. T_T
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: yeah, there's a bunch of fail in the SL caching mechanisms
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Everything CAN change" is not the same thing as "Everything DOES change".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and. specifically, it is eating up a lot of bandwdth.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the date has changed since Iwas last here!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The way content is delivered is also suboptimal in many cases, precisely because of the assumption that everything can change.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i saw a video a prototype of the Imprudence viewer doing it http://blip.tv/file/3429688
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, we store dates as unsigned 200gb bigints these days
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a feeling the Second Life™ cache rarely 'finds' other avatars' assets even sim builds appear to load every time you log
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not going to take THAT risk again =]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, charlette it sure feels that way doesn't it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't think it caches objects.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seems more conveniant to me than viewer 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If there were a way to designate certain objects as "static"/"permanent", they could be delivered once, in a compressed form, and re-used many times
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL @ that video :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think the needing to reload textures when you move across sims is your skin is baked and stored temporarily on the sim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|E.g. you TP to Loco Pocos, and the viewer downloads a compressed package of the main things in the sim, and textures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|better yet, a compressed diff since you last visited it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|extrayeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|make every sim a git repo :-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you could have a point Wut, the assets are copied to the sim and may even be limited in persistence this way - no idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stopnow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not as good as this video of mine --- this is the REAL future! http://www.blip.tv/file/3407015 :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, yeah, i'm hunching here we need to borrow someone who understands the cache better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's switch gears and talk about rendering/graphics cards
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have nothing nice to say on this one. so i'll get coffee. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: I wonder if it would actually work to make each sim a Git repo, seriously :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe a different way of tessalacting prims would make them more optimized?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*tessellacting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok. I'd like the settings that affekt FPS (draw distance, enabled shader types) to be set dynamically, depending on FPS, rather than manually
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG Morgaine, I kept thinking the kids would go in the hopper too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There seems to be a widespread idea that post-Windlight viewers are more demanding of graphics cards, even when all the Windlight features are disabled
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I can automagically keep FPS in a certain range
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: ahahaha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: That's an interesting idea. I wonder how it would affect the user experience, to have draw distance and graphics settings constantly adjusting themselves
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that would rock.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone considered not rendering sculptie assets till the sculpt map loads and only if one wants them to load?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sculpts can cause a huge load on the client side and sim bandwidth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah. actual meshes would probably be cheaper than this hack.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: that would be so lul
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In my stupid GL play clients, I already fire off frame processing on a timer, so that my FPS is guaranteed instead of determined by scenegraph load. Of course that doesn't work if you process everything on every frame though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|okay. my $0.02 on the renderer. the bottleneck primarily seems to be the vertex pipeline, fillrate we have to burn, but can't because the vertex pipe is clogged
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mesh is for sure more pracitcal than poorely defined sculpt standard considering most sculpt maps are too big because hardly anyone understands what is good enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|culling is so broken that if you move the frustum in a crowded scene, it seems to invest more time trying to trim the scene down to size than it would if it hadn't bothered
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: YES !!!!!!!!!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your $0.02 could be right on the money Wut
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and. yeah. meshes are better. prims solution to detail is THROW MORE VERTICES AT IT
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been examining Fast Timers, and noticed that more time is spent in sorting than in rendering for example
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but i dunno if you noticed the geometry detail hasn't gone up in games for a WHILE, but the fillrate is so plentiful people throw in DoF blurring because they feel they OUGHT too because it's practically free
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the 32x32 pixel sculpt was a 'good' idea but people upload 128 and bigger sculpt textures all the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was still a facepalm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qarl is probably sitting in his laboratory screaming "Oh, God, I've created a monster!"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pretty much. it was a cheap hack at the time, but meshes were needed from the outset
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just look at advanced > Rendering > Info Displays > Sculpt to see what I mean
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|although- problem, normal mapping is HARD. specular mapping is barable, mesh geometry means blender or such
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"I never intended for them to be used this way! It's not my fault! Whhyyyyyy???"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prims are easy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lump's head has a 256x256 sculpt
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my hair is full of 128x128 maps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|noobies have to get results and not be sent away with a giant maya book and told to figure out how to make a cube.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all waste of data since the renderer only uses 32x32
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prims are easy because they have an inworld editor. Make one for meshes and meshes will be easy, too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't see Advanced > Rendering > Info Displays > Sculpt in Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: lol, quite.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|old viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Baroondas: patch or GTFO. modelers are a bitch. i'm not writing one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|=]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think Quarl would bring a gun into work if he was asked
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-\
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ideally, yeah, brilliant. but y'know
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth has a partial patch with raycasting and shadow frustra, but seem to have forgotten sculpts.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ouch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same problem with avs like Tech - hundreds of 64x64 sculpt textures on one av
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I doubt those are all distinct textures.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko, wait. sculpts just don't occlude? or they occlude as spheres to the stencil buffer. that would look so um... :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: I have no idea...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|achully, to stencil shadow technically you need a closed orientable manifold
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sculpts aren't
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm only talking about the menus that Jacek moved to XUI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They way I understand it, you have to upload 64x64 to get the 32x32 sculpte map to work properlly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is quarl == q ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qarl's a graphics dev, Q is a product manager
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Techwolf, oh so they did the old double sided quad trick on 64x64 scults to get the shadows working?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sculpts*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qarl's the guy who did sculpties and now is working on meshies. Q's the guy who I'm fighting on client-side scripting issues.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tech you are right I think, since the 32x32 isn't interpreted right for what i remember (0 to 31 was never coded right or something like that)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sometimes confusing to keep track of all the lindendes who appear out of nothing and also keep disappearing there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ooooh no, tey don't shadow sculpts the problem is that you need 64x64 sculpts to get 32x32 sculpt data. back on rtack
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|track*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|-typos
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry. miles away. up for 25 hours or something now. it's interesting wut time ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: in the end, short of a Nobel Prize winner who makes everything "closed orientable manifolds", everything will become voxels :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|naw, we cracked the infinite detail hack
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or better, pure particles :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's real, but it has horrible artefact issues. it's a design flaw
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no kidding - I heard that 32x32 map rows and collumns were never coded prperly to read as 0-31 or something like that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|isn't voxel a crappy old english GM car morgaine HAHA
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and. why? you can't do multiple passes on particles most of the time. we already have geometry pipelines to tesselate nurbs/catmull-rom splines to whatever detail you fancy. i think we solved that already tbh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: won't scale
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does scale
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|voxels fail
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crowds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|occlusion buffers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the weird thing is that LL have a need to reinvent the wheel when open GL has so much in it anyway
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are we just talking shadows?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Voxels have trivial LOD, scale arbitraily
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or geometry in general?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|um. you mean like subdivision serfaces?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|surfaces*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or nurbs? or any order spline you might like?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|beats making pictures out of rice and glue every frame in my book.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you use voxels for everything, you'll get a problem with lightning, as the normals will be all wrong.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The "every frame" thing is why SL rendering is so laggy.There doesn't seem to be a meme for only processing things that change
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|boroondas not necessarily, you can store normal data along with it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean, there's gigavoxels, they look great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Getting back a little closer to home, how else can we reduce rendering costs?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.icare3d.org/blog_techno/gpu/gigabroccoli_the_mandelbulb_into_gigavoxels.html
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree with Morgaine, the frame based loop for everything has to go one day
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth just stopped paying attention to the chat for a while''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|radical Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you such a rebel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: if for no other reason that multicore. We HAVE to stop the single rendering loop madness.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|than* multicore
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Morg, especially poor for natwork and rendering to be locked into the frame loop
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd even like distinct loops for UI rendering and content rendering, so neither can lock up the other.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure a single core CPU would do threaded applications better than trying to thread a single loop
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah Bor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut: is there anything going on in the GL world on multicore realtime scene rendering?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wut's forehead may currently be embedded in the keyboard
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|GPUs are multicore by nature so GL tasks would take advantage of that I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: no no, I don't mean GP-side
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Erk, GPU
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|black and blue and broken bones
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry nipped out for a smoke
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey pig
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| colspan="2"|''Wut Moorlord reads''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good work Nathan
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we really needed this
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|finally some rain to cool down!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe you could attach a self-rezzing garden to your ass as well nathan
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, i think there's a lot of scope for some clever parallel rendering loops in the future, i will ask some eggheads if there's anything out there that's workable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is this
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for now i keep it as a stupid loop because i do as the games programmers do
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because they do it that way and it works :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a meeting Nathan
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|between?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could you pleasse pay attention Nathan or leave
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my old pal geinko bolaba is here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenCL and similar gpu insanity will likely lead to some extremely cool stuff. but i'm just not familiar enough with that area to comment, sorry.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Next area for footprint reduction, maybe?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha wow this is an advanced meeting of intellectuals huh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we'll wrap it up here. Any final comments?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yall look like the x-men though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's sl for you, nathan.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenCL is Nvidia-only I think and ATI have a thing like it as well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cept beast is black....was black
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|CUDA is nvidia only, OpenCL is kronos, works on both
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|came across this impressive claims about graphics and rendering but way above my head http://www.vizworld.com/2010/03/unlimited-detail-technology/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|amd even have an OpenCL emulator
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, are we planning to get together in OSgrid again, or in any of the other open grids?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah OK, i've been confused about these things Wut
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yall like scripters ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lufpleh, rigged demo noone will buy because they couldn't be bothered to make any asset import tools, and their culling system isn't correct enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool bit of engineering though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yo smarties whys my type sound still playing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: I'm not sure, at the moment.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: yeah, it's acronym soup :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: whether UXIG or not, I'd like to get together in other worlds. Whatever the topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just gonna ignore me huh....why the hell you even say leave or stay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we already did, if you remember.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I said pay attention Nathan - that is the way people find out what meetings are about
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nimra Irata:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: I think with all that confusing TVPs, TOSeses, WTFs, FUDs a more convenient meeting point would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh snap i figured it out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm sorry, the universe doesn't revolve around you.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whos smarter than a 5th garder?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Nathan24 Romano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha grader
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mkay, I'm heading out. Take care, everyone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Wut Moorlord:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, tc jacek.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Jacke
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Jacek
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Topics

2010-03-31T05:56:26Z

Jacek Antonelli: Removed some stale/used topics

This is a running list of topics for the [[User Experience Interest Group]] discussions. If you have a topic request or suggestion, edit this page to add it at the end of the appropriate list. Try to keep the topic description concise, ideally a single line or sentence.

If you add a topic, please sign it with <code><nowiki>''(~~~~)''</nowiki></code>. That will be converted to your name and the current date, so we can easily see how recent a topic is. For example:

<nowiki>* Ways to make inventory easier to use. ''(~~~~)''</nowiki>

Becomes:

* Ways to make inventory easier to use. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC))''

== Topic Requests (High Priority) ==

These are topics that someone has requested to be discussed soon. When selecting the weekly topic, topic requests usually take priority over the fallback topics. If you add a request, please IM Jacek Antonelli to make sure she notices it.

* ''(Edit the page to add yours here!)''

If you have a topic request, edit this page to add it! Remember to keep it concise.

== Fallback Topics (Low Priority) ==

These are topic ideas that would be interesting to discuss, but don't need to be discussed soon.

* What OpenSim creators want in a viewer. ''(Geneko 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* "Beyond SL": in what ways would viewers evolve if they weren't tied to SL? ''(Morgaine 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Improving usability of online marketplaces, integrating them in the viewer. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Accessing SL with 3D Displays (stereoscopic and other methods). ''(Morgaine 00:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC))''
* Bugs / issues that affect a specific use case or demographic (builders, clothing creators, animators, models, shoppers, etc.). ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* ''(Edit the page to add yours here!)''

If you have a topic suggestion, edit this page to add it! Remember to keep it concise.

== Past Topics ==

Please see the [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts|transcripts page]] for topics discussed at past meetings.

== Topics Fanout ==

The following links factor out specific topics addressed at UXIG meetings:

* [[Client-side Scripting for HUDs and Widgets]]
* ''add more here''

[[Category:User Experience]]
__NOTOC__

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-03-26T07:27:48Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ March 25 - Direct Manipulation Build Tools

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25|March 25]] - Direct Manipulation Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-25

2010-03-26T07:25:35Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript, brief summary

== Links ==

* No links

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for March 25, 2010.

'''Topic: Direct Manipulation Build Tools.'''

== Summary ==

Geneko led another discussion about his project to design an interface to manipulate prim shape parameters in a more direct and interactive way.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For today I want to talk about my project which is only due in 4 days and resiously needs user input...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unfortunately, the design still isn't done, yet! >///<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was 'sposed to be funny, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay Geneko, all yours
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|('cause i'm really laughing!)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, glad you find it funny.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You weren't joking?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wan't joking, although I am not surprised you find it funny.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi peeps :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Morg and luf
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jacek, all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For those just joining us, Geneko's going to be talking about his project which is due soon and needs user input
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How goes Jacek?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But is only half-done, so maybe something else instead.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well you've got our attention for an hour, so shoot. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Half done sounds good. If it were fully done, no point talking about it :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Did I say half done? I mean I'm only at the 1/2th iteration...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I had two more hours I could probably get the parts for torus-type prims and new tools like alignment, distribution, preset camera angles and tool palette done.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean nice diagram. No idea what it means :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But if I were that effecient, I would have been coding by now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We need an overview first. What's the project?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looks like a time machine to me. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Redisigning the build interface of primitive-based virtual world.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nah, it's a portal to a wormhole
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(That is, SL, but don't tell anyone about it. ^^)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aha!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|given the alleged mesh capabilities is it worth it to remake the building interface until you see what meshes need?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it won't happen for a while.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well don't use any LL sources, otherwise you'll be personally liable to them and to all users of your code, since the TPV overrides the "NO WARRANTY" clause in the GPL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is a school project?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm: I was stupid...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: I'm the type to connect to SL recklessly despite the TPV. Don't try this at home, kids!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stupid?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, other people work in groups and make tiny projects... I choose to work alone on something I can't do.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: oh, you're not the problem, you're unlikely to sue yourself. ^_^ It's other people who can claim against you when they use your code.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Exactly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, i like how your bolded the prim outlines, as that helps much to understand what a knob does
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Garn!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see how long Imp lets me stay on today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Techwolf Lupindo tosses Garn some snacks.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well... maybe I should explain a little bit on parts I am not yet covered on the mockup.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats wikid Technus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I stay on forever in Imprudence. It is Linux though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah i got a crash bug on Win
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Garn, what imprudence build?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's stay focused on Gen's project, please
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whats the topic :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: yes please
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm thinking of replacing the upper part...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OH SHI- accitental teleport with Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko has an idea for changing the build interface in the viewer. It's for his school project
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|upper part? have you considered the 'standatd' (MS etc) toolbar we have talked about many times Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I did.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure which one is better.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which is one of the reasons I came here to ask.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover thinks Technus is stuck talkin''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I still believe that Second Life™ is more like an office app than a URL viewer - especially if actual URLs are not related to the location bar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Need some more explanation of the key difference, Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fjkds;al
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What problem are you trying to address or how would you determine that what you propose is an actual improvement?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|further this applies to tools like build etc and their user customisation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm trying to address the problem that prim param edit is currently filling out text boxes and that build tools are somewhat lacking.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|improvement would be evident if the user familiarity/expectation/interpretation of UI functions would heve improved
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are you focusing on power users, novices, or both?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Both.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: so you're saying make building less numeric and more interactive via mouse etc?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|customisation of UI is the key to noob/advanced dilemma
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, yes, yes. But,
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Customization usually favors power users. Newbies just have no clue.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree, but good parameter control needs to be made available e.g. granuality of controls etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even if your interface is completely customizable, if your interaction methodology is wrong, there can be no right way to customize it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Agree with Gen. So what method of interaction are you proposing Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Direct manipulation"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... of course, it's more of manipulating gizmos.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Avatar hands?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like in the "World Builder" film :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|current prim controls are simply criptic and hardly anyone knows what a given change to prim params will result in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Exactly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|personally I would expose the user to hands-on twists etc of the prim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|While there are a bit of hands on stuff going on, it's only for the basic mov/rot/sca controls.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|World Builder video link, for later if you haven't seen before -- http://vimeo.com/3365942 (Don't watch it now)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you mean "hands" on or "mouse" on?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've seen that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Pen" on, of course!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay... that's kinda unrelastic to expect.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In a virtual world with avatars, it's not so obvious. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tentacles on :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup. but one can start with some graphic illustration of resulting changes and selected parameters being open to hands-on fiddling
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well mouse etc on manipulation ofcourse
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I also expect expert users to use keyboards to switch between tools and type in parameters faster than clicking spinboxes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: what kind of interaction and extra controls are you proposing? (Point at parts of the diagram?)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you need puppeteering-control-level access tot he viewer I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|switch or hover the tool and you see arrows etc indocating the likely change
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Basically, you start with choosing a tool, like the twist tool or the hole size tool.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also 'edit appearance' style display of the range of chnages available would be nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|God idea Charlette.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then the viewer would highlight edges avaliable to manipulate in your current selection.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*Good*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah gen - switch to a parametar and see what change is feasible in a small previer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: Does that provide enough context? The same edges could apply to many types of operation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|currently the parameter fiddling is a blind act for most - let alone noowbies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: By the type of tools, only the edges that are applicable to that kind of parameter being edited will highlight.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i like the highlight
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Context-sensitive manipulating *might* be covered by ... no, that patent explicitly said "include rot/sca" in its claims.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what do you think of deformations being handled the way edit appearance is Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So operation state is given by tool selection state ... like in the GIMP toolbox window for example.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And so, there is no need to preview since the type of operation is already shown in the tool icon.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|GIMP UI is hard to talk about as a success
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know, I know, which is why I am also thinking of a conventional toolbar.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: yeah, haha, was only referring to the toolbox state, nothing else :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some of the GIMP clumsiness still pisses me after years of using it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For newbies, you might have text prompts, e.g. "select the axis for rotation" after the user selects a tool. Sort of a context dependednt step-by-step.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good point.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I realise and in that respect the solution is good Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Have you thought about making the tool selection part of the in-world display?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In-world display?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well lemme say that I find the "Which toolbox icon have I clicked?" paradigm of GIMP very confusing --- I have to keep looking back at the toolbox window.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Back when I used Maya, they had a little icon that would float near the selection, and clicking on it would cycle through a number of modifiers/tools
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: You probably didn't turn on the option that adds a small icon to the mouse pointer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the text based approach sounds a bit 'not inworld', but it could be a mode to choose as opposed to graphic etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: I think that's kinda awkward... and besides, pie menus are better for that kind of task.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth loves pie menus!''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No more pie in 2.0 :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are pie menus part of the design, then?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: the pointer helps a lot, although it can be hard to tell the difference between a paintbrush icon and a scalpel for Cut.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not yet.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maya is great in the way thousands of controls are always available - but there we come to the pie menu thing again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cursor cues are a good point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... are pie menus *going* to be part of the design?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Maybe in the far, far future... but not for the project I'm going to hand in four days later.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maya without the rich pie menu just wouldn't be a practical UI I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(FFF being the day I implement the pie enhancements mentioned two meetings earlier)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like a fixed field in the frame to tell me my current operation. Just like a fixed field in the frame to tell me my current target too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then my eye always heads to the same spot.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pie with 8 slices is ancient history and a very poor tool, but good pie menus are simply the best in many tasks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ancient history, yes. Poor tool, I disagree.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But enough of pies. How do you think of particular manipulation tools shown here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ш дшлу еруь!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Describe them, in turn Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pie with dynamic division is far more accommodating than argueing about what should be at level one and what further hierarchy could be
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Got to go. See you all soon.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As you can see here, up to now I've got most operations applicatble to cube-type prims, sans alignment or texturing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: every control is an edge drag?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aklo Modan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|шэь ыскфьидувб пщееф пщб ещщю Ж(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: That's the way I'm thinking...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is why I believe that illustartions (ala appearance) of given deformations is the best build tool approach
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think this is somewhat better than visible gizmos.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't worry, there will be icons.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What happens when you release? Temporary mod, or permanent? How do the undo's work?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When you release, the update gets sent to the server, but not before.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And you can press Escape before you release the mouse to cancel it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don'r even doubt that the 'edit appearance' mode for prim deformations will be the future of the edit tool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is something you can't do iin the current build tools.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just a matter of time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haven't seen chat lag for a while
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eep am I out or what?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen, would it be possible to modify that mode of operation a little (because it's very bad for accessibility to maintain drag), so that the drag can be made in separate steps, and only send to server when satisfied?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Are you going to try to design all the tools, or just a few?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: I... don't know how to do that, and it seems to be too complex.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: All, plus two new ones.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I don't think I'll be able to actually implement all them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In four days?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen is going to sleep negative hours :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Designing? Maybe. Implementing? No.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe you should spend the four days inventing a time machine so you can go back and have enough time to do it all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|big ask Gen unless a single change of user mode e.g. 'edit appearance' idea were to be applicable to the majority of tasks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|making a time machine is a relatively simple task hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, i expect most of the coding will be copy paste.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Where did the "4 days" come from? I missed that somehow.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just need to overcome gravity I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Due Sunday.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's Geneko's deadline for the project
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ouch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't worry, I just need a working prototype.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would suggest picking two or three tools and focusing on those
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Definitely.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless you like torturing yourself and then failing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow 4 days is good enaugh to get drunk and go out dancing - not to build a design
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: I'm already doing that, if you haven't noticed... I had the project in mind back two months ago, remember?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is a clasic case of having to 'test' the assumptions I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I know. And you've said several times since then that you realize it's too big a project. So scale it down to something doable ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No wai. XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, my quick feedback, Gen: I like the idea. I'd very much like to see it working. I can't think of any issues other than accessibility of dragging.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Accessibility of dragging " being...?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The holding down mouse button while dragging to final point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some of the drags are spatially hard to interpret - I agree with Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the whole problem of raytracing the control in a 3D sense
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also this idea unlike the 'edit appearance' thought is camera position dependant - bad thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|beat that for efficiency hindrance
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Requires good coordination to drag to required spot first time, that's the accessibility issue. Although a good Undo system helps massively.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry if my words cut like a knife, but I haven't done UI design for so many years to beat around the bush
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it's expected that drag-based tools will require the ability to drag and control the mouse proficiently.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Note also that your highlighting of edges inevitably obscures the edges, so it's hard to get exactly right.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes Jacek and consider the lack of plan/elevation views too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ie. a thickened and highlighted edge is not the actual edge
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: Don't worry, that will be added to the menu.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm, I'm not sure how "edit appearance" is not camera dependent - even if it shows all angles at once, to see the current state,you still have to cam.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|isometric view is actually more precise for distortion editing than pespective
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: yeah, which is why my first question was whether the drag can be done in multiple attempts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Acknowledged, that's a good concern. It's not expected to deviate too much, but there will still be a small disparancy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|edit appearance is only preview dependant Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: Not.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|manipulation is 100% camera/view independant
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is no display of current state in the edit appearance panel (as it is).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Only extreme states.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The idea of Geneko's proposal is to design a way to directly interact with the prims.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although using an extra preview might migrate that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the middle panel could be introduced Gen - I assumed this is obvious
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But, why bother with the screen estate of three previews if you could do it directly on the object?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's obvious, but not blindingly obvious...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why bother at all Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As it's 4pm, just in case Jacek has to dash off suddenly ... could I ask whether there is going to be a meeting of Imprudence people before the 1st April when the TPV policy comes into effect, to get feedback on direction etc?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|personally I feel that we are trying to cure a dead horse, considering what LL did in the last couple of years
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not we, me. ^^||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless you're mentioning the TPV...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: We met this past week and made a decision. I'll be announcing it soon (probably today).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|feel me in Gen - I hadly know what is going on in Second Life™ these days
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: I think the idea of directly manipulating the objects to change their parameters would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, you mean the 3 developers made a decision, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that you don't need to worry at all about whether it's camera-perspective independent or not. In fact, it shouldn't be.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|About TPV...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that you also don't need to worry very much about allowing multiple edits before sending it to the server. If the user makes a mistake, they can correct it or undo and try again. Prims don't petrify after being modified once, after all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: exactly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|don't want to interfere Gen sorry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Gen is making some very interesting suggestions for manipulating prims. Even if not used in LL-based viewers because of the TPV, it sounds like a very useful direction.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't really care about TPV, personally, but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is that a developer dreaming about the TPV being hanged to death?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are third party going to be locked out? sorry I haven't been paying much attention of late
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, that's LL saying that TPV will only be used to fend off bad people but a developer dreaming about the TPV being tied on a broken rope that could fall any time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think you can get hanged as a result of a legal suit. :P But you can certainly lose everything you possess, when the "NO WARRANTY" clauses of the GPL are overturned on 1st April.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: the tvp is designed in a way they will not even needed to be blocked, they will all go by themselves if they aren't nuts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|GPL doesn't force no warranty, it just says this is the default. Nevertheless, only nuts would claim liability without getting paid...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good point Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything more you want to say or ask about your design, Geneko?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah... a few things.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|First, it's nice if the prim is a 0.5 by 0.5 by 0.5 .
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But sometimes you get extreme geometry.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|GPL provides the "NO WARRANTY" clause as an inherent part of the license. Obviously developers can choose to accept liability if they wish though. The TPV however makes it non-optional. If you use LL's sources, and a user connects your to SL, then *YOU* personally are liable for anything your users (or LL) sue you for.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is a camera/view dependant problem again - simply the avatar scale gets in the way Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Of course, no method is perfect...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So if you decide to use LL sources released by LL *after* 1st April, I hope you take out millions of $ of liability insurance.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Enough about the TPV already.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe we'll stop talking about prims and start tarlking about TPV...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eyah Morgaine e.g . Second Life™ makes me sick and I'll sue if it gets any worse
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It has been an hour, after all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It needs to be said, Jacek. Nobody here wants anyone present to lose their livelihood.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence is based on Snowglobe, so it would be hard to consider Improdence a third-party viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People who hate open source will be suing opensource developers left right and center, count on it. I can think of several high profile people.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All third-party viewers are based on first-party viewers.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morg: It's off-topic to this meeting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: I declare talking about my project is over. Let's talk about TPV!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: that's why I asked whether there was going to be a meeting about it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but how can one sue an open source dev team? who would you sue Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so lets save TVP for the after hour
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I already gave my feedback to Geneko: "I like it!"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any final remarks before I close the transcript?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|generally one needs an entity to bring a case against Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Second Life™ smells funny Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very insightful
|}

User Experience Interest Group

2010-03-20T01:05:15Z

Jacek Antonelli: Updated the group description

== Quick Links ==

* Meetings '''every Thursday from 3-4 PM SLT''' at [http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hippotropolis/43/104/25 Hippotropolis]
* Join the [http://world.secondlife.com/group/f55e5dac-c5b3-c3c4-4b11-d43a6ae83903 "User Experience Interest Group" SL Group] for event reminders, topic notifications, and on-topic chat. Enrollment is optional.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Topics|Topic requests]] (feel free to add your own)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts|Transcripts]] of past meetings
* [http://tinyurl.com/uxig-calendar Meetings Reminder Calendar] on Google Calendar. Also available in [http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/qk42o7joad8hpeqfqnpjefcteo%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics ICAL format].
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Articles|Articles, Discussions and Proposals]] arising from past meetings

== About the User Experience Interest Group ==

The '''User Experience Interest Group''' (UXIG) is a group of Residents (and occasionally Lindens) interested in the Second Life user experience, including topics such as the SL viewer's user interface, issues faced by new Residents, accessibility for users with disabilities, and general user satisfaction, among others. UXIG was formed on October 30, 2008 after the Resident Experience Lindens announced that their weekly office hours would be reduced to once per month (and later cancelled them altogether). UXIG continues those weekly meetings, but in an unofficial, Resident-organized capacity.

UXIG meets '''every Thursday from 3-4 PM SLT''' at [http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hippotropolis/43/104/25 Hippotropolis] in Second Life. Anyone and everyone is welcome to attend the meetings.

The discussion usually alternates between a specific preselected topic one week, then open discussion the next week. Discussion topics are selected from the [[User Experience Interest Group/Topics|topics list]]; if you have a topic request or suggestion, please add it to that list. The topic is announced each week via the [https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sl-ux SL-UX mailing list].

Many UXIG members also discuss user experience issues on the [https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sl-ux SL-UX mailing list]. Several Lindens from the Resident Experience team also participate on that list and can answer questions about SL user experience.

Please direct questions and comments about UXIG to [[User:Jacek_Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] (the group organizer), or to the SL-UX mailing list.

[[Category:User Experience]]
[[Category:Second Life Groups]]

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-03-20T00:46:10Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ March 18 - Accessibility for users with disabilities

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18|March 18]] - Accessibility for users with disabilities
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18

2010-03-20T00:45:15Z

Jacek Antonelli: Added summary.

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for March 18, 2010.

'''Topic: Accessibility for users with disabilities.'''

== Summary ==

We discussed the current state of SL accessibility for users with disabilities, available tools and features that facilitate accessibility, and possible future enhancements.

We were joined by Esbee and Crimp Linden, who are both involved with accessibility at Linden Lab. They told us that they are aware that there are some accessibility problems with Viewer 2, but they plan to fix them as Viewer 2 progresses.

We identified a number of '''existing accessibility issues''':
* Compared to previous versions of the viewer, Viewer 2 requires additional mouse clicks to access some features, which is problematic for users who have difficulty using the mouse.
* Many objects in SL have non-meaningful names ("Object"), which limits the usefulness of tools that identify or interact with objects by name, such as radar scripts.
* The viewer requires use of the mouse to perform some actions, such as interacting with objects in the world. This can restrict the user's ability to function in SL.
* Some features (e.g. Shared Media controls) require you to hover the mouse over something before the control will appear or become active, or which disappear when the mouse leaves the area, which makes it even more difficult for users without fine mouse control.
* There is no official support for transmitting closed captions, descriptive text that is displayed only to users who want it. For example, sound effect descriptions or voice transcripts.
* The standard SL viewer is not compatible with many screen readers.

We discussed '''existing tools and solutions''' for SL accessibility:
* Scripted objects such as [http://www.virtualguidedog.com/ Max the Virtual Guidedog], which can report the name and distance of nearby objects, or move the user to an object with a certain name, among other features.
* [http://radegastclient.org/ Radegast], a lightweight (non-graphical) metaverse client, which provides excellent accessibility for disabled users.
* Some users have developed a standard for scripts to broadcast descriptive text on a hidden chat channel. Combined with a matching attachment worn by users who wish to receive the text, this provides closed captioning.

We discussed '''ideas and plans for future improvement''':
* Create a guide (on the SL wiki) describing "best practices" for content creators to help make their content more accessible (e.g. giving meaningful names and descriptions to objects).
* Provide a way for the user to interact with in-world objects without the mouse. For example, cycling through nearby interactive objects with the Tab key; or selecting objects from a list, as with [http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/misc/snapshots/rad_screeshot_objects.png Radegast's Nearby Objects UI]
* Provide programming hooks or an interface for external applications to communicate with the viewer. For example, an application could receive chat information from the viewer and send it to a screen reader. ({{Jira|SNOW-375}} or something similar could fulfill this need.)
* Provide a official support (an LSL function) for scripted objects to broadcast descriptive text for closed captioning, and for the viewer to optionally display that text.
* Allow keyboard shortcuts to be customized, so that users can choose simpler or more accessible shortcuts.
* Allow objects in the world to be marked by creators as "important" (or conversely, "unimportant"), to help prioritize the list of nearby objects.

== Links ==

* {{Jira|SNOW-375}}
* [[User:Dzonatas_Sol/SNOW-375_WGET|Example using SNOW-375 with WGET]]
* [http://radegastclient.org/ Radegast] (lightweight metaverse client)
* [http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/misc/snapshots/rad_screeshot_objects.png Radegast's Nearby Objects UI]
* [http://www.virtualguidedog.com/ Max the Virtual Guidedog]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yay, good attendance today!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this thing hates me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jizmo Teixeira:
| style="white-space:normal;"|blood
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|robin: stand in the middle and try
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, Lindens, that's cool. Accessibility is an important topic, and (worth mentioning) good PR too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not just any lindens, but the ones responsible for accessibility. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Huzzah :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great, Crimp + Esbee :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm hoping Iona over there can get a stable connection. She's the one who requested the topic, but today she's having trouble logging in :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi, I work with Iona
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, bummer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uh oh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully if she can't make it, at least I'll be able to take notes for her
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithly: Okay, cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well this region isn't helping, it keeps lagging chat. Time Dilation isn't too bad, but fluctuated within 0.9x
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|while we wait, perhaps esbee and i should intro ourselves and explain why we're here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Please :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure, please do :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm Esbee Linden, I've been with Linden Lab for almost a year and a half and I'm the Product Manager for the Viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm Crimp Linden. At LL for 6 months. I'm the exec director of the "platform" team, which includes Viewer and many of the "features" that you see in SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great :) Welcome, both of you!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice to meet you both :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks! Great to be here!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As you might imagine, we applaud the uses to which SL has been put to assist differently-abled persons.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And we're aware that we may have taken some steps backward with accessibility features in the new Viewer 2. So we're here to hear your complaints. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Absolutely, and want to ensure that we improve accessibility as we move forward with Viewer 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We plan to rectify the issues in future Viewer 2 releases.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey Esbee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aside from talking about regressions, feature suggestions for accessibility too I hope :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Complaints are good...so are ideas. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, what she said. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be great too if we could talk about what features *are* in place
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally, I'd like to see Shared Media honor the web proxy setting so I can anonymize my IP and not hand it to anyone with a shared media prim who wants it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and how well they are working
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm glad to see Dzonatas is here too. I expect we'll be talking about her work on SNOW-375, which allows other programs to request information from the viewer. Useful for connecting the chat log to a text-to-speech app, for example.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've dragged Latif here as well, because of his work on Radagast Text client for SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, wow, Lindens at the UXIG!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithly: good idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|=)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And, personally, I'd like to limit the active content in the same way NoScript does for Firefox
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|allen: we're making some security improvements in an upcoming release to address that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|allen: that is, the anon ip issue.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nod Crimp - being able to run over Tor isn't enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the note that its being looked into however
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not just that. we're going to change the way cookies are used, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: we heard from Edelman Linden a few days ago that in a beta or two, separate controls for Javascript and Flash execution are planned as well, which is a relief.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mkay. With this many people, it's easy to slip into chaos, so let's all work to keep things organized and on the topic(s) at hand.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: yes. Edelman is on the platform team, and specifically focused on shared media.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Excellent
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is this going to mean a more customised llqtwebkit inorder to do these new features?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean will you ned to make further qt changes to implement them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin, now, it's a one call to webkit to enable/disable js and plugins
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|robin: i don't believe so, no. although we are considering changes to webkit for better volume controls.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/now/no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so.... accessibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|depends how serious you want to tackle it, it's not easy :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's put the shared media privacy things aside for now, and talk about some of the challenges disabled (or differently-abled) individuals face with using SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then we can transition to the topic of available tools, and then ideas for future improvements. Sound good?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One issue i've seen is the extra mouse clicks are causing some folk problems.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but at least for the visually impaired it would be important to implement OS specific hooks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perfect
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that the blind could use their favorite screen reader apps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are alrady predefined apis (unfortunatelly as many things platform sepcific)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well first of all, fine control of mice etc for mouseover is regarded as very bad on various ground, not just motor skills, but hand-eye coordination, and inability to see the state continuously.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|techwolf: you mean that some UI elements have a different access method now (more mouse clicks)?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is the guide dog project effective for the blind? I heard that one problem is that so many objects aren't labeled. so even if the guide dog or a screen reader could read SI, they wouldn't be able to identify things
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think that would be th best way to get serious about making the viewer accessible, use the platform way to implement it in a standar way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep. But don't recall spific parts, this was a few weeks back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif: i have a lot of past experience with jaws, etc. most of the screenreaders don't handle custom controls well. :( we have a lot of work to do to help there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithlydawn - That is a challenge with inworld content. IT's just like labeling images with ALT tags on a website.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif++ --- as Latif says, hook into the platform, don't reinvent.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithly: Indeed, probably 90% or more of the prims in SL are still named "Object", hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think sharing best practices for Accessibility in SL for content creators would really help.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee - agreed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Labeling important objects.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esbee: i think our next release includes a tab-order pass?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, windows implements OLE api that helps programs like jaws, you just implmeent 3 fields per controls, accessibility role, name and description
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|similar api exists on os x
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, some best practices and guidelines to help content creators would be a great resource. Perhaps a series of wiki pages?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif: yes, have done that at past employers (rhapsody, etc.). just need to built it into our viewer 2 roadmap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Headless viewer that interfaces to a tactile device
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp - The roadmap is still a bit in flux, but that's my request so far :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, I understand it's a non-trivial task to build in accessibility roles into the custom widget library
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Yeah, I've been talking to a lot of different groups about various best practices for various types of content in world. The wiki would be a great home for that since the community can also contribute
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are some of the other challenges users face? I know that the SL viewer is incredibly mouse-oriented, which can be problematic for many people.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Using the OS supplied widget liberay can help with accessablity issues.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: fine control of mice etc for mouseover is regarded as very bad on various ground, not just motor skills, but hand-eye coordination, and inability to see the state continuously.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you have any user groups to test accessibility features?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Techwolf: That would entail redoing all of the UIs...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif: to be clear, the work may be long/difficult, but we want to try to make progress on it with every release.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Absolutely.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, good to hear
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Indeed. Also things like being able to interact with objects in the world. The viewer doesn't have any way to "touch" something without using a mouse or other pointer device
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i work a lot with the blind users of sl, i think i understand the problems they're facing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: good point.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on the mouse issue, we're making a "keyboard pass" in the next release to improve hot keys, tab order, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: suggestions?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Agreed, that's a great point. I wonder how we solve that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: Could you list a few of those issues? Things that haven't been mentioned yet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Moving focus from the 2D UI to the 3D world and enabling interaction via the keyboard or other devvice.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|need a way to make the IW view the "active view", so that tab key could cycle through objects (or similar)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esbee and i may be in different cities, but apparently we're sharing minds :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To require every object labeled is a huge task that would be pushed on everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example in Radegast I implemented "nearby object list", that lists object names, and the actions you can perform on them, like sit, stand, etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is another case where it would be useful to be able to label an object "important" so that you don't have to tab through a few hundred objects that may comprise a build.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Remember that we're focusing right now on describing the challenges. We'll talk about solutions in a little while :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know emerald has a similar nearby object list display
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps those that have scripts embedded
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In most MMO clients, there are keycommands for iterating through sets of like objects. For example, through monsters, through friends, through objects on ground, etc. Could something like that be added?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps only those that have touch scripts embedded or otherwise interactable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about snoar representations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sonar*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i like the "nearby objects" concept. it mirrors well to our "nearby people" and similar concepts in viewer 2.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: excellent suggestion. we should look to what's been done in WoW, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, that would be good, but provide a command to iterate though them --- just a window is no good for accessibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having hooks into the voice client or sounds. Some folks hear by viberation devices.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/misc/snapshots/rad_screeshot_objects.png
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is how i implemented it in Radegast
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: Awesome :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|re. nearby obejct list
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, but also "my" objects, also easyly get them in edit mode without having to find the visual representation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|techwolf: good point about "ping" sounds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|armin: do you mean your inventory contents? or objects IW?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, objects in world or attached
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|other issues that we should be considering?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|While using the sound ouput of the sound card can do, having hook for sound events would be nicer and have much more simpler sound to phycial interface.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there anything like a closed captioning option?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for people who use SL for classes and conferences, there needs to be a way to add closed captions without tying up the chat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's interesting...it would be good across the board to trigger events on more Viewer/3D world interactions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds, objects, Viewer UI, scripts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|easier then to make the UI fully accessible when those features won't be all used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pithlydawn: what about using Shared Media to put a web page IW, that has the content being presented?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: the mouseover issue. Assessibility for media controls took a major step back on media controls, no longer being in sight all the time, requiring mouseover, and the coordination required by the dropdown pane to switch things on and off. Truly bad. Need to revert to something clear like the old one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Regarding captioning: I have heard of some work by Residents to define a standard way for scripts to emit "extra information" about what's happening, such as a description of sound effects being played.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The information is transmitted over a hidden chat channel, then a user attachment picks it up and relays it to the user.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So only users wearing the attachment would "hear" it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: cool application of tech
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any sonar ability would require sound simulation off objects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|client-side*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we do have a way now, under script control, to render "local" html on a Shared Media panel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp - sorry for delay - I see you earlier mentioned shortcuts - I point you to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2085 - if you're fixing shortcuts please don't forget that one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so scripts could give "extra info" in that way now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Opensource - I'll note that Jira and follow up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, non-US keyboards
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Need a way for end user to define the keyboard shortcuts. They are aften use for acceccpablity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Techwolf Lupindo can't spell to day''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well shortcuts need to be redone wholesale, unfortunately. Any UI control should be configurable by the user to use any key or button or external event. It's even easy to support this, and it's been requested in the SL Forums since day 1, so not sure why it's not done.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: (sorry, baby called!) that works for canned presentations, but doesn't pick up conversation, Q&A...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have to go, wish you good luck with adding these new features into the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aw, take care Latif
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Latif
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Keyboard shortcuts are on my radar. I'll continue to push this forward
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cya Latif!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boroondas: non-US keyboards +1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pithlydawn: is there a system in place for capturing voice to text? otherwise, someone has to type the captions, which seems like it wouldn't happen often
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In Eclipse, every action is mapped to a key, and can be remapped
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just an idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee: it's not so much "keyboard" shortcuts, as allowing any UI event to be bound to an action. It's really easy to do too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dictation software could be quite expensive.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: that's the issue with all synchronous platforms, and unfortunately there's not a good voice capture system yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but non-immersive environments like Elluminate, WebEx, etc. do provide a place where a trained captioner can add captions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doesn't happen for individual use, but does for conferences and classes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when they can afford to hire someone :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For closed captioning about conversations, Q&A, etc. -- that's another area where that hidden script channel could be useful, at least allowing someone to type in the captions manually
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|makes sense. with Shared Media, just bring the webex panel IW. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee: for accessibility, a user may have a special device installed in her system to generate UI events for all platform apps. In the configurator, just need to listen for the UI event, and bind it to the requested action.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|other needs? esbee's capturing the chat log, so nothing will be missed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll be putting up the transcript (and a summary, if I have time) on the wiki :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thx, jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can someone send me a transcript of the meeting up to now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: That makes sense. I can give some thought to how that would work in the Viewer UI.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(By the way, transcripts for UXIG meetings are always available here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Transcripts )
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll do that geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee: excellent. If looking for ideas, there's always the opensource-dev list you can ask too. It's a bit like herding cats, but also full of good ideas. And the AW Groupies group channel is always happy to stop arguing and focus on a question. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-375 is a suggestion that could be used to export details of the scene, avatar, objects, inventory, to another program, via a script that does a http-get, and maybe just a simple speech synth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, I was just about to suggest you tell us about SNOW-375. Psychic :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-375 is just the layer inbetween
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine Thanks for the suggestions! I'll do both. I am on the opensource list, but more as a lurker :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I'll defnitely join AW Groupies.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example with wget: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/SNOW-375_WGET
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll add more examples in time, so I don't waste time in this hour
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| colspan="2"|''Esbee Linden takes a quick look at SNOW-375''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know you've used SNOW-375 to create a separate program that looks and works like the Local Chat/IM windows, but split off from the main viewer window.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I saw your emails lately about other users. It sounds really neat :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*other uses
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to add a voice translation function :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Portuguese it sounds like to me. But they sounded about 12
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-375 provides the HTTP access to the viewer, so features can be added to extract more data rather than complex UI accessibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you move viewer control to web interfaces ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one could use HTTP to the viewer to extract the recent chat messages, and propagate them to a voice synth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP isn't really designed for persistant connections...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I decided passive connections is best, yet allow a persistent connection for exta optional security
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It sounds like a very promising avenue for accessibility features
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, Esbee, would you mind sharing some of the accessibility fixes/features that are on the table at LL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That approach is fine for some use cases but not others. We have the same issue in VWRAP --- the REST protocol is fine for querying servers infrequently, but it's not intended nor suitable for obtaining information that is a continuous stream It turns into busy-waiting under those conditions, and has a tremendous overhead.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|REST isn't a protocol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, those should be optional approaches to handle such condition and shouldn't stop progress on data that can be made passive
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|conditions*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek - I don't have any specifics on the actual roadmap just yet. We will be updating some general tab control and KB shortcut components. Crimp and I going to help shape our next steps for Accessibility. This is why we were excited to jump into this meeting today.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: I know what REST is. In this discussion, "protocol" is close enough, unless you want me to go into tedious detail.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, great :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Please don't. ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This will sound lame, but we were so busy finishing Viewer 2 so we could get the beta out and get feedback that we released it before any real accessibility work was done
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the beauty of that method being that we get early, meaningful feedback from all of you on the beta, and don't waste time working on features that may not be important
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thumbs up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|true
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds fair. Although people are not using it as beta at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can definitely understand that sentiment. It's tough work releasing a viewer, and not enough time to do everything you'd like! I'm glad to hear it's on the roadmap, though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Login are off. Don't log out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, what other accessibility regressions are there in the beta?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|techwolf: not following you. are you saying login is broken in sl right now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We have a very long lists of things we'd like to do...but it's important to take the time to gather feedback.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|crimp: for some residents. http://status.secondlifegrid.net/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it's been nice to have this time to get back to more engagement again.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Someone on my friends list just logged in ^^)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|By the way, we're near the end of the hour. I'm happy to keep going after, of course. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| colspan="2"|''Crimp Linden hates to hear about downtime''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG meetings tend to be rather drawn out unlike the UX office hour.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice meet and ty for the time !!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there were some things fixed in the new update, but not the ones i was hoping for, a personal thing of course
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: i'm sorry to say that i can't stay past 4pm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I spend so much time in SL live music events that the problems with the media controls hit me daily. For significantly disabled people, that could severely hamper events.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chantal: what did you want that's missing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me either. I have another meeting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: Aww, too bad. But it was really nice to have you and Esbee here for this :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It was great to be here. I'm hoping to keep coming back as my schedule allows!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yay! :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|beeing able to turn off the ui, with control alt and f1 -
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: understood completely, and audio controls definitely cleaned up in the next release.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it now only does partial, so i cannot film in the viewer now at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i refuse to scale, as it kills my full HD option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzonatas: Thank you so much for coming by, as well :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chantal..I know about that one. We've got a bug report for it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esbee: can you pls check into chantal's ask? might be as simple as a missing keyboard shortcut.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alrighty, I need to jump to my next meeting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and switching between viewers is a drama...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty for the mention, jacek =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp - Will do!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty esbee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;o)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, i can always count on esbee to be ahead of me. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Esbee and Crimp! Thanks for coming!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks so much everybody. See you soon!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cheers!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Crimp, Esbee :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye !
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|our pleasure, jacek. we're both on sl-ux mailing list, so you'll probably see us again. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ciao everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu OO
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and thx everyone for the great feedback and ideas.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can wrap it up here, unless anyone has other accessibility-related things they'd like to talk about today?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think that's it, then :) Thanks for coming everyone!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cheers Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok ty jacek
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-18

2010-03-19T03:40:48Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript. Summary coming soon.

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for March 18, 2010.

'''Topic: Accessibility for users with disabilities.'''

== Summary ==

''Summary coming soon.''

== Links ==

* {{Jira|SNOW-375}}
* [[User:Dzonatas_Sol/SNOW-375_WGET|Example using SNOW-375 with WGET]]
* [http://radegastclient.org/ Radegast] (lightweight metaverse client)
* [http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/misc/snapshots/rad_screeshot_objects.png Radegast's Nearby Objects UI]
* [http://www.virtualguidedog.com/ Max the Virtual Guidedog]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yay, good attendance today!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this thing hates me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jizmo Teixeira:
| style="white-space:normal;"|blood
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|robin: stand in the middle and try
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, Lindens, that's cool. Accessibility is an important topic, and (worth mentioning) good PR too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not just any lindens, but the ones responsible for accessibility. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Huzzah :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great, Crimp + Esbee :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm hoping Iona over there can get a stable connection. She's the one who requested the topic, but today she's having trouble logging in :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi, I work with Iona
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, bummer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uh oh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully if she can't make it, at least I'll be able to take notes for her
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithly: Okay, cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well this region isn't helping, it keeps lagging chat. Time Dilation isn't too bad, but fluctuated within 0.9x
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|while we wait, perhaps esbee and i should intro ourselves and explain why we're here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Please :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure, please do :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm Esbee Linden, I've been with Linden Lab for almost a year and a half and I'm the Product Manager for the Viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm Crimp Linden. At LL for 6 months. I'm the exec director of the "platform" team, which includes Viewer and many of the "features" that you see in SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great :) Welcome, both of you!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice to meet you both :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks! Great to be here!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As you might imagine, we applaud the uses to which SL has been put to assist differently-abled persons.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And we're aware that we may have taken some steps backward with accessibility features in the new Viewer 2. So we're here to hear your complaints. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Absolutely, and want to ensure that we improve accessibility as we move forward with Viewer 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We plan to rectify the issues in future Viewer 2 releases.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey Esbee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aside from talking about regressions, feature suggestions for accessibility too I hope :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Complaints are good...so are ideas. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, what she said. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be great too if we could talk about what features *are* in place
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally, I'd like to see Shared Media honor the web proxy setting so I can anonymize my IP and not hand it to anyone with a shared media prim who wants it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and how well they are working
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm glad to see Dzonatas is here too. I expect we'll be talking about her work on SNOW-375, which allows other programs to request information from the viewer. Useful for connecting the chat log to a text-to-speech app, for example.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've dragged Latif here as well, because of his work on Radagast Text client for SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, wow, Lindens at the UXIG!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithly: good idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|=)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And, personally, I'd like to limit the active content in the same way NoScript does for Firefox
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|allen: we're making some security improvements in an upcoming release to address that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|allen: that is, the anon ip issue.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nod Crimp - being able to run over Tor isn't enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Allen Kerensky:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the note that its being looked into however
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not just that. we're going to change the way cookies are used, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: we heard from Edelman Linden a few days ago that in a beta or two, separate controls for Javascript and Flash execution are planned as well, which is a relief.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mkay. With this many people, it's easy to slip into chaos, so let's all work to keep things organized and on the topic(s) at hand.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: yes. Edelman is on the platform team, and specifically focused on shared media.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Excellent
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is this going to mean a more customised llqtwebkit inorder to do these new features?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean will you ned to make further qt changes to implement them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin, now, it's a one call to webkit to enable/disable js and plugins
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|robin: i don't believe so, no. although we are considering changes to webkit for better volume controls.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/now/no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so.... accessibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|depends how serious you want to tackle it, it's not easy :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's put the shared media privacy things aside for now, and talk about some of the challenges disabled (or differently-abled) individuals face with using SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then we can transition to the topic of available tools, and then ideas for future improvements. Sound good?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One issue i've seen is the extra mouse clicks are causing some folk problems.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but at least for the visually impaired it would be important to implement OS specific hooks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perfect
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that the blind could use their favorite screen reader apps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are alrady predefined apis (unfortunatelly as many things platform sepcific)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well first of all, fine control of mice etc for mouseover is regarded as very bad on various ground, not just motor skills, but hand-eye coordination, and inability to see the state continuously.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|techwolf: you mean that some UI elements have a different access method now (more mouse clicks)?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is the guide dog project effective for the blind? I heard that one problem is that so many objects aren't labeled. so even if the guide dog or a screen reader could read SI, they wouldn't be able to identify things
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think that would be th best way to get serious about making the viewer accessible, use the platform way to implement it in a standar way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep. But don't recall spific parts, this was a few weeks back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif: i have a lot of past experience with jaws, etc. most of the screenreaders don't handle custom controls well. :( we have a lot of work to do to help there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithlydawn - That is a challenge with inworld content. IT's just like labeling images with ALT tags on a website.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif++ --- as Latif says, hook into the platform, don't reinvent.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pithly: Indeed, probably 90% or more of the prims in SL are still named "Object", hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think sharing best practices for Accessibility in SL for content creators would really help.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee - agreed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Labeling important objects.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esbee: i think our next release includes a tab-order pass?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, windows implements OLE api that helps programs like jaws, you just implmeent 3 fields per controls, accessibility role, name and description
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|similar api exists on os x
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, some best practices and guidelines to help content creators would be a great resource. Perhaps a series of wiki pages?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif: yes, have done that at past employers (rhapsody, etc.). just need to built it into our viewer 2 roadmap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Headless viewer that interfaces to a tactile device
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp - The roadmap is still a bit in flux, but that's my request so far :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, I understand it's a non-trivial task to build in accessibility roles into the custom widget library
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Yeah, I've been talking to a lot of different groups about various best practices for various types of content in world. The wiki would be a great home for that since the community can also contribute
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are some of the other challenges users face? I know that the SL viewer is incredibly mouse-oriented, which can be problematic for many people.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Using the OS supplied widget liberay can help with accessablity issues.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: fine control of mice etc for mouseover is regarded as very bad on various ground, not just motor skills, but hand-eye coordination, and inability to see the state continuously.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you have any user groups to test accessibility features?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Techwolf: That would entail redoing all of the UIs...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif: to be clear, the work may be long/difficult, but we want to try to make progress on it with every release.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Absolutely.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, good to hear
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Indeed. Also things like being able to interact with objects in the world. The viewer doesn't have any way to "touch" something without using a mouse or other pointer device
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i work a lot with the blind users of sl, i think i understand the problems they're facing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: good point.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on the mouse issue, we're making a "keyboard pass" in the next release to improve hot keys, tab order, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: suggestions?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Agreed, that's a great point. I wonder how we solve that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: Could you list a few of those issues? Things that haven't been mentioned yet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Moving focus from the 2D UI to the 3D world and enabling interaction via the keyboard or other devvice.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|need a way to make the IW view the "active view", so that tab key could cycle through objects (or similar)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esbee and i may be in different cities, but apparently we're sharing minds :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To require every object labeled is a huge task that would be pushed on everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example in Radegast I implemented "nearby object list", that lists object names, and the actions you can perform on them, like sit, stand, etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is another case where it would be useful to be able to label an object "important" so that you don't have to tab through a few hundred objects that may comprise a build.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Remember that we're focusing right now on describing the challenges. We'll talk about solutions in a little while :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know emerald has a similar nearby object list display
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps those that have scripts embedded
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In most MMO clients, there are keycommands for iterating through sets of like objects. For example, through monsters, through friends, through objects on ground, etc. Could something like that be added?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps only those that have touch scripts embedded or otherwise interactable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about snoar representations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sonar*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i like the "nearby objects" concept. it mirrors well to our "nearby people" and similar concepts in viewer 2.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: excellent suggestion. we should look to what's been done in WoW, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, that would be good, but provide a command to iterate though them --- just a window is no good for accessibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having hooks into the voice client or sounds. Some folks hear by viberation devices.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/misc/snapshots/rad_screeshot_objects.png
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is how i implemented it in Radegast
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: Awesome :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|re. nearby obejct list
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, but also "my" objects, also easyly get them in edit mode without having to find the visual representation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|techwolf: good point about "ping" sounds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|armin: do you mean your inventory contents? or objects IW?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, objects in world or attached
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|other issues that we should be considering?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|While using the sound ouput of the sound card can do, having hook for sound events would be nicer and have much more simpler sound to phycial interface.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there anything like a closed captioning option?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for people who use SL for classes and conferences, there needs to be a way to add closed captions without tying up the chat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's interesting...it would be good across the board to trigger events on more Viewer/3D world interactions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds, objects, Viewer UI, scripts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|easier then to make the UI fully accessible when those features won't be all used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pithlydawn: what about using Shared Media to put a web page IW, that has the content being presented?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: the mouseover issue. Assessibility for media controls took a major step back on media controls, no longer being in sight all the time, requiring mouseover, and the coordination required by the dropdown pane to switch things on and off. Truly bad. Need to revert to something clear like the old one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Regarding captioning: I have heard of some work by Residents to define a standard way for scripts to emit "extra information" about what's happening, such as a description of sound effects being played.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The information is transmitted over a hidden chat channel, then a user attachment picks it up and relays it to the user.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So only users wearing the attachment would "hear" it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: cool application of tech
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any sonar ability would require sound simulation off objects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|client-side*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we do have a way now, under script control, to render "local" html on a Shared Media panel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp - sorry for delay - I see you earlier mentioned shortcuts - I point you to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2085 - if you're fixing shortcuts please don't forget that one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so scripts could give "extra info" in that way now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Opensource - I'll note that Jira and follow up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, non-US keyboards
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Need a way for end user to define the keyboard shortcuts. They are aften use for acceccpablity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Techwolf Lupindo can't spell to day''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well shortcuts need to be redone wholesale, unfortunately. Any UI control should be configurable by the user to use any key or button or external event. It's even easy to support this, and it's been requested in the SL Forums since day 1, so not sure why it's not done.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: (sorry, baby called!) that works for canned presentations, but doesn't pick up conversation, Q&A...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have to go, wish you good luck with adding these new features into the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aw, take care Latif
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Latif
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Keyboard shortcuts are on my radar. I'll continue to push this forward
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cya Latif!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boroondas: non-US keyboards +1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pithlydawn: is there a system in place for capturing voice to text? otherwise, someone has to type the captions, which seems like it wouldn't happen often
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In Eclipse, every action is mapped to a key, and can be remapped
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just an idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee: it's not so much "keyboard" shortcuts, as allowing any UI event to be bound to an action. It's really easy to do too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dictation software could be quite expensive.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: that's the issue with all synchronous platforms, and unfortunately there's not a good voice capture system yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but non-immersive environments like Elluminate, WebEx, etc. do provide a place where a trained captioner can add captions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doesn't happen for individual use, but does for conferences and classes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when they can afford to hire someone :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For closed captioning about conversations, Q&A, etc. -- that's another area where that hidden script channel could be useful, at least allowing someone to type in the captions manually
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|makes sense. with Shared Media, just bring the webex panel IW. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee: for accessibility, a user may have a special device installed in her system to generate UI events for all platform apps. In the configurator, just need to listen for the UI event, and bind it to the requested action.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|other needs? esbee's capturing the chat log, so nothing will be missed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll be putting up the transcript (and a summary, if I have time) on the wiki :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thx, jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can someone send me a transcript of the meeting up to now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: That makes sense. I can give some thought to how that would work in the Viewer UI.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(By the way, transcripts for UXIG meetings are always available here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Transcripts )
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll do that geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Esbee: excellent. If looking for ideas, there's always the opensource-dev list you can ask too. It's a bit like herding cats, but also full of good ideas. And the AW Groupies group channel is always happy to stop arguing and focus on a question. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-375 is a suggestion that could be used to export details of the scene, avatar, objects, inventory, to another program, via a script that does a http-get, and maybe just a simple speech synth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, I was just about to suggest you tell us about SNOW-375. Psychic :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-375 is just the layer inbetween
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine Thanks for the suggestions! I'll do both. I am on the opensource list, but more as a lurker :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I'll defnitely join AW Groupies.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example with wget: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/SNOW-375_WGET
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll add more examples in time, so I don't waste time in this hour
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| colspan="2"|''Esbee Linden takes a quick look at SNOW-375''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know you've used SNOW-375 to create a separate program that looks and works like the Local Chat/IM windows, but split off from the main viewer window.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I saw your emails lately about other users. It sounds really neat :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*other uses
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to add a voice translation function :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Portuguese it sounds like to me. But they sounded about 12
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-375 provides the HTTP access to the viewer, so features can be added to extract more data rather than complex UI accessibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you move viewer control to web interfaces ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one could use HTTP to the viewer to extract the recent chat messages, and propagate them to a voice synth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP isn't really designed for persistant connections...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I decided passive connections is best, yet allow a persistent connection for exta optional security
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It sounds like a very promising avenue for accessibility features
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp, Esbee, would you mind sharing some of the accessibility fixes/features that are on the table at LL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That approach is fine for some use cases but not others. We have the same issue in VWRAP --- the REST protocol is fine for querying servers infrequently, but it's not intended nor suitable for obtaining information that is a continuous stream It turns into busy-waiting under those conditions, and has a tremendous overhead.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|REST isn't a protocol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, those should be optional approaches to handle such condition and shouldn't stop progress on data that can be made passive
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|conditions*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek - I don't have any specifics on the actual roadmap just yet. We will be updating some general tab control and KB shortcut components. Crimp and I going to help shape our next steps for Accessibility. This is why we were excited to jump into this meeting today.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: I know what REST is. In this discussion, "protocol" is close enough, unless you want me to go into tedious detail.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, great :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Please don't. ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This will sound lame, but we were so busy finishing Viewer 2 so we could get the beta out and get feedback that we released it before any real accessibility work was done
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the beauty of that method being that we get early, meaningful feedback from all of you on the beta, and don't waste time working on features that may not be important
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thumbs up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|true
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds fair. Although people are not using it as beta at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can definitely understand that sentiment. It's tough work releasing a viewer, and not enough time to do everything you'd like! I'm glad to hear it's on the roadmap, though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Login are off. Don't log out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, what other accessibility regressions are there in the beta?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|techwolf: not following you. are you saying login is broken in sl right now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We have a very long lists of things we'd like to do...but it's important to take the time to gather feedback.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|crimp: for some residents. http://status.secondlifegrid.net/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it's been nice to have this time to get back to more engagement again.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Someone on my friends list just logged in ^^)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|By the way, we're near the end of the hour. I'm happy to keep going after, of course. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| colspan="2"|''Crimp Linden hates to hear about downtime''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG meetings tend to be rather drawn out unlike the UX office hour.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice meet and ty for the time !!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there were some things fixed in the new update, but not the ones i was hoping for, a personal thing of course
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: i'm sorry to say that i can't stay past 4pm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I spend so much time in SL live music events that the problems with the media controls hit me daily. For significantly disabled people, that could severely hamper events.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chantal: what did you want that's missing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me either. I have another meeting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp: Aww, too bad. But it was really nice to have you and Esbee here for this :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It was great to be here. I'm hoping to keep coming back as my schedule allows!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yay! :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|beeing able to turn off the ui, with control alt and f1 -
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine: understood completely, and audio controls definitely cleaned up in the next release.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it now only does partial, so i cannot film in the viewer now at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i refuse to scale, as it kills my full HD option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzonatas: Thank you so much for coming by, as well :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chantal..I know about that one. We've got a bug report for it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esbee: can you pls check into chantal's ask? might be as simple as a missing keyboard shortcut.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alrighty, I need to jump to my next meeting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and switching between viewers is a drama...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty for the mention, jacek =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crimp - Will do!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty esbee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;o)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, i can always count on esbee to be ahead of me. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Esbee and Crimp! Thanks for coming!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks so much everybody. See you soon!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Esbee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cheers!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Crimp, Esbee :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye !
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|our pleasure, jacek. we're both on sl-ux mailing list, so you'll probably see us again. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ciao everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu OO
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Crimp Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and thx everyone for the great feedback and ideas.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can wrap it up here, unless anyone has other accessibility-related things they'd like to talk about today?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Pithlydawn Horowitz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think that's it, then :) Thanks for coming everyone!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cheers Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok ty jacek
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-03-12T03:26:17Z

Jacek Antonelli: March 11 - Open Topic (Context Menus)

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11|March 11]] - Open Topic (Context Menus)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-11

2010-03-12T03:25:40Z

Jacek Antonelli: Summary and transcript

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for March 11, 2010.

'''Topic: Open Topic (Context Menus).'''

== Summary ==

We will be having a special visitor next week (March 18): Lisa Fiedor from North Carolina State University will be here to discuss SL accessibility for users with disabilities, and the progress that's being made on that front.

This week, Boroondas talked about her ideas for improving the context menus for in-world interaction (i.e. the pie menu in SL 1.XX, and the traditional rectangular menu in SL 2.0):

* When the user right-clicks in the 3D view, they wolud be presented with a pie menu containing 7 actions for quick access. The user can customize the list of actions to fit their preferences.
* The 8th action in the pie menu would bring up the traditional rectangular menu, giving access to all possible actions via a hierarchical menu layout.
* This would give the benefits of the pie menu (quick, almost gestural access to actions the user uses frequently) with the benefits of the traditional context menu (more conventional and familiar to users; more effective at presenting a hierarchical layout of many items).
* We also discussed some variations on the idea, such as a hierarchical pie menu that "fans out" into more actions.

We also discussed various other topics, such as UI customizability, infinite clothing layers for avatars, the state of open source viewer development, and Geneko's school project to redesign the build tools UI.

Geneko might lead a discussion reviewing his project in two or three weeks.

== Links ==

* [http://hci.deri.ie/~ksamp/game.jpg Screenshot of a radial menu from NeverWinter Nights]
* [http://imprudenceviewer.org/forums/download/file.php?id=62 Geneko's old pie menu concept sketches]
* [http://nekotoba.nfshost.com/files/fanout.png Geneko's fan-out pie menu concept sketch]
* [http://boroon.dasgupta.ch/persistent_inventory/ Boroondas' proposal for "persistent inventory"]
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_One_Infinity Wikipedia article about the "Zero One Infinity" concept in software design] (related to out discussion of clothing layers)

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jacek :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Morg!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How are things?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Bor, Gen :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Better than before.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heya
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Gen and Boroondas :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Still alive. That's better than the alternative
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Amazing, we got away on time today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Merov himself said there wasn't much things on the agenda.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope they will end on time next week, we have a special visitor :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Did you all hear, Which is leaving LL, next week wll be his last. And that right after Pathfinder leaving last week :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aww
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Aimee :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hullo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awww
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really :( at both of those
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if that trend continues, they're gonna run out of devs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|massive loss for the lab
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Special visitor?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Aimee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or at least good devs...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, they're hiring really crap ones these days
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth giggles evily.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, like that Aimee Linden. Totally incompetent... erm, um.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|j/k }:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth LHAOs.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, and she's not even original with her avatar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dun dun DUUUUUN! O_o
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. Fairy wings? Please. Soooo 2009.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Eh, I liek that Aimee guy. She flies around glittering and doesn't afraid of everything.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Nice avatar.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thank you :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|damn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|blew it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, now you have ... Geneko didn't say which Aimee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually Aimee Linden is one of the bestest Lindens ever ❤
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not a matter of hiring competent/incompetent techies, they're always going to be competent technically. It's more a matter of hiring ones without the old vision and without any interest in residents except as customers. And without a liking for Open Source.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boronndas: ^_^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you'd be hard pressed to find a dev in the lab that's not pro-open source
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Tao_of_Linden&diff=next&oldid=173523
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: are there updates there that look worrying?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes. It was updated two years ago.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll analyse it later, it's been years since I read it. Off-topic here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Somewhat...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so ... anyway, user experiance ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, user experience.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: you mentioned "special visitor" next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, having a preamble saying something like "we support opensource development and are proud that so many pple are working on that code" in front of the tpvp would give a completely different light
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I should "fail publicly" here, as the old Tal preaches.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*Tao\
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Grr, chat lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway, my course project for UI design is redesigning the SL build interface by myself, as you may have known. It turns out to be too big a topic for me to handle.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yepp, chat lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I wanted to mention before we get into a discussion, that next week we're having a special visitor to UXIG. Lisa Fiedor from North Carolina State University will be here to discuss accessibility for users with disabilities, and the progress that's being made on that front.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Excellent!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sigh, no having people looking at my designs next week then... still, it's a nice departure.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|She is (or her job title is) "Web Accessibility, Usability, & Design Specialist" \o/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(From random chit-chat)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: in the context of SL and its viewers, or generally?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Prolly generally.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the focus of the discussion is going to be on accessing SL through a viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm. That's not an easy task either, this will be interesting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|From her email, she is involved in "distance education", i.e. taking classes over the internet.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It should be an interesting discussion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I view accessibility as relevant to everyone. We are all likely to benefit from work in that area one day, no exceptions.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahoy, McCabe! Nice to see you around ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe! Hiya stranger!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahoy!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As you probably noticed, I didn't get to write my mail to sl-ux about the context menu, yet. If we have time, I'd like to talk about it here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi McCabe :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In my experience, efforts to improve accessibility for users with disabilities, tend to benefit everyone quite a bit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Did you want to talk about your designs this week? Or wait until two weeks from now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's *due* two weeks from now, and I can't talk about it next week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Back in Benjamin + Malbers Linden days with their OH, did they every focus on accessibility?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unfortunately I can't talk about it this week either. I was playing Battle for Wesnoth and forgot to do it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ever* focus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted thinks. Only when we brought it up, so far as I can recall''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Hrm. I could ask Lisa if we can have her come two weeks from now, so you would have a chance to talk next week?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm... actually, I don't really care since I'm like super lazy and stuff, so you probably won't get anything two weeks from now either, although if it can be done that would be great too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/two weeks from now/ a week from now/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. Let's have Boroondas talk this week, then Lisa next week, and perhaps Geneko can give us a review of his design in two weeks?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| colspan="2"|''Lilly Zenovka waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Lilly :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|corrupt textures. Back in a minute
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Lilly :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aww, but I already have stuff prepared..
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think get Lisa for the date that best suits her. When Gen has something to show, we can adapt.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Which is it? If you have something prepared, we can talk about it. But you said you weren't ready
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. I don't have it ready.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. Boroondas, tell us about your context menus. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bleh. It's already 25 minutes into the meeting. Let's talk about context menus.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's just some thoughts, yet, but I'd like to share them for discussion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Better define context menu first.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Lilly :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi morgain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what you see, when you rightclick stuff inworld, Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(not concerned with contextual menus on non-inworld stuff for now)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you know, these were pie menus in 1.x
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth digs out his old pie menu mockup''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in 2.0 beta, we have the rectangular context menus known from other applications
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|both have pros and contras:
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the pie allowed for quick drag&release selection (mouse gesture like)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ack, back :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can someone catch me up?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also it was something that made the SL UI unique, without posing a big barrier to newcomers (you can't mistake the pie menu for much else than a context menu, even if it looks quite different than otherwhere)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well I've never been too happy with the core idea that the context menu should pop up at the point where the clicked-on item exists. It's inflexible. If I were doing it (but I'm not), I'd keep target selection and action selection separate, so the context menu could be brought up by many means and wherever you like, not just the mouse.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however 3-level pie menus are a PITA, so it's understandable that LL went with rectuangular ones to display more options
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know it's not "the SL way", but I think the SL way is crappy UI design.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I love pie menus.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was thinking, maybe we can get the benefits of both
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you have a good example of that somewhere else Morgaine?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee: all MMO clients that have ever been created.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have no prob with 3 levels pie menus..
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, not all, haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All the major ones
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pick one ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the idea is to have the pie menu on right-click with the (up to) seven most used options (possibly user-configurable).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the 8th section would be "All options" and would open the rectangular, hierarchical context menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for power-users, double-right-click could directly open the rectangular one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As long as it doesn't rearrange itself while being used...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: I think the good thing about pies is that you mentally remember in which direction to head so aiming is very easy. That's great for accessibility .... AS LONG AS IT STAYS THE SAME.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli politely listens to Boroondas. :P''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(i.e. the order are decided by developer through data collection)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, in my scenario the user would configure the pie menu. So if they don't want to re-learn the directions, they could just leave it on the default order.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what would be in the "all options" menu?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the "all options" would open the rectangular context menu as known from 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boroondas: I think Morgaine took your "most used options" to mean "options rearrange themselves based on most used".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because that's more suited to present a big number of options, maybe hierarchically sorted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, no, "most used" as in, "don't clutter it with stuff that nobody uses more than once annually"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have only 7 slots to fill
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no more multi-level pies. everything that doesn't fit in the 7 slots would go to the "all option" rectangular menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Huzzah!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is a really interesting idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you remember "Neverwinter night" ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Never played that game.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|me, neither
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the pie menu was extending around the first one,
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Wish I could get my paws on them, I heard it was great.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One thought: We could make it 8 customizable slots, if the center was a button to open the rectangular menu. That would also fit into the idea of double right-clicking to go directly to the rectangular menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's good too, since there's no need to close it, go back, or anything...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you moved your mouse on an item, it automagically extended around
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|3-level menus weren't a pain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm ... optically, I'd like the center to stay "empty" to allow see-through to the object in question (another pro for the pie menu)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you'd remember how long to extend when right clicking to get to the wanted entry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://hci.deri.ie/~ksamp/game.jpg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I prefer to attach a label to the pie menu like http://imprudenceviewer.org/forums/download/file.php?id=62
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly mc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And the label could be used as a tear-off handle or navigation of multi-level pie (of course, if you do away with multi-level pie there will be no navigation).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes. In NWN most of the radial menu entries (marked with arrows, as you see in that screenshot) would lead to new menu levels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unlike the SL menu, which is more linear. Usually 7 options plus "More", to bring up the next 7 options.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.... unless everything is named "Object"...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't like the idea of mixing pie + rectangular menus. They're 2 different abstactions...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just having the center clear isn't good enough. Sometimes you need to select an object with pixel accuracy. What you select (the GL pick) should be described in text in a target field somewhere in the UI.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe not rectangular, but a list of something.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That sounds like a separate thing, Morg. You could have that regardless of how the menus look or act
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, it could be a fan-out from pie instead of rectangular
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm ... pixel accuracy when selecting?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do like the idea of giving quick access to a customizable set of actions, and then having one more click to bring up the full set of menus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods. I think the pie's a lot more useful if everything is accecible through the initial menu somehow. Never quite liked clicking More >''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's hard to predict/imagine if the pie vs. rectangular would feel weird. I think it's worth a quick mockup to try and see how it feels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, definitely
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: http://nekotoba.nfshost.com/files/fanout.png
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|might be this isn't as usable as I imagine it :-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can right-click on a pie menu entry ... sadly it has the same effect as left-clicking it. That's wasted --- I'd add meta-menu entries on the right-click, eg. "Copy this command", allowing you to paste it into a button say.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that'd be cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, for all of the UI, not just pie menus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right-click on a side-bar tab > "Make this a floater"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Another right-click menu entry for frame: "Paste button here"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And once there is a button, "Move Button", "Delete Button" too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think my next big project is going to be generalizing all the UI actions so they can be rearranged and put anywhere, as buttons or menus or anything.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe, nice project
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I can just clear up some time for it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the GNOME panel works very similar to that, actually
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmmm. Wonder if I have that installed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|NWN had a similar thing. The bottom bar was fully customizable, you could put any action down there. Spells, weapons to switch, voice actions to say ("Attack!"), and more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's cool.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And they were accessible by the F1-F12 keys as well. Plus Ctrl-F#, Shift-F#, and Ctrl-Shift-F#
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are the number keys used for, then?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it was really 48 customizable, quick access slots
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't recall, Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cripes, I thought gnome-panel had destroyed my windows for a minute. It rewrote the w/m decorations until I Ctrl-C'd it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|um ... what exactly are you trying morgaine?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's e... no, that's Metacity...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway. Boroondas, I think you've got a really interesting idea. Definitely worth trying out :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you use gnome, you're already running gnome-panel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor:I merely ran up gnome-panel. Didn't do anything yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you don't use GNOME... well, I think you knew what happened.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(It looks like a Gnome session inside a KDE session)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|probably kde has similar functionality
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But it shouldn't take over kwin, that's Metacity's job.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|though i wouldn't try to mix the core components of those two (applications are fine)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't use Gnome nor KDE. Just a window manager (IceWM) plus an icon launcher for root window (idesktop).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone have a screenshot for a lowly windows user?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmmmmm~
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Poor McCabe <grin>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: http://capitalfurs.myfreeforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1205&p=20081&hilit=raccoon#p20081
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The top and the bottom, what we Windows users call task bar.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(The menu on the left says "Applcation/Places/System". And you can move that, too.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah okay, nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think some task bar elements on windows are movable, too, but not all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. Linux UIs are definitely superior to Mac and Windows in the customizability department
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli pats McCabe on the head.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can only move sub-toolbars on task bar and then the start menu and the system tray/notifications are always at corners.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The important part is that everything also has a "lock" option in the context menu, so you avoid rearraning stuff by accident.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was true in 98-Vista, not sure about 7...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's better in 7, but not like linux, I imagine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... well, anything else on pie menus?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not from me, at the moment ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted notices that they need to be wider anyway for languages other than english''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I should probably write stuff down and draw some pictures :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've made a mockup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Please do, Boroondas :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|of some thoughts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... looks like nobody noticed my mockup. :<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the pictures you linked here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've looked at them, but the first one isn't easy to decipher
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe whe've had the same idea geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I noticed it Geneko. Fan out is an interesting idea.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lilly: ... no, compeletely different.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pretty funny, this gnome taskbar that the panel pops up. It's mapped my 39 named workspaces from IceWM with their 0-15 xterms and apps of various kinds in them, all into a single taskbar image. Apart from the Imprudence window with its nice icon, everything else is unidentifiable :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| colspan="2"|''Lilly Zenovka gave you Quick illustrator mockup.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: That shouldn't happen, or maybe it's just your Window Manager isn't talking the talk.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey, they're selling MotD space as advertising now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Metacity does have named workspaces. ... Hmm, but the workspace switcher didn't work well with Compiz, so it might... not be standarized.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lilly, that'd be for the NWN-like variant (sub-pie around the top-level-pie)?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lilly, can you explain which areas select outside the main pie actually trigger the selection?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the idea is to click & release on the desired option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(lag)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for this mockup, it's "take off" -> "clothing"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Press and release on option can't be the only method. Has to work with click, then left click on option, too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the sub is drawn centered on the upper level entry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but right now you can't just click once
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/m nods
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|by expanding subentries on highlight, this becomes possible
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted wonders if a good behavior might be: hover over the option, it automatically previews; click and it selects''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm confused by the blue square. Is that part of the UI?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, it's part of Adobe Illustrator
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that way you could see what you look like taking off an item without taking it off, and won't accidentally remove something you don't want to
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: if you can make it optional, sure. But usually hovering is bad news for accessibility. That's what mouseover is so frowned on.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted is thinking of the live preview in Office '07, truthfully''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, MC, on a sim with no lag & quick texture download for rebake
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can't it all be done client side with the new renderer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, there must be quicker ways than a full rebake ... how does the appearance floater do it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|baking is already done at the client side.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if one change texture on the appearance floater, it dwnld it and rebake.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: that was in reference to the hover not being good if it's the only way. Yeah, actions like preview would be brill.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Has anyone here made use of personal bakes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wish, but I don't have an oven.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Does anyone notice that Aimee poofed?(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|she poofed a while ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: She poofed a half hour ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Slow me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's the best feature of the new method of wearable handling. The bake you send up doesn't need to bear any relation whatsoever to the wearables you've got equiipped. You could manufacture any baked textures you like, and the sim will happily send them to everyone.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|probably passed out, it's late for her
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it really gives power to the user.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... I don't see how this could empower the user.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You don't even need to place your wearables in asset store.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: your bake is completely arbitrary, up to you.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which means you'll have to deal putting wearables somewhere other than the asset store.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure, they'd be in the most sensible place for your wearables --- on your PC :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That doesn't make any sense unless you're a clothing maker.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Three words: Infinite clothing layers.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As Jacek says
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|INFINITE! *head explodes*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is on my "To do if I didn't have so much else to do already" list
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Yeah, and how is the viewer supposed to figure out what clothing you're wearing without getting to the asset store...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|NAGI (Not a good idea)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OTOH, the potential to be able to doodle on your shirt seems appealing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, what when the user logs in from another machine?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|poof naked
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted draws on Lilly''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: you're being too LL-centric. :-) Think beyond that. You could travel across the metaverse and wear your favourite clothing without needing to worry about the local world provider.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's very user-empowering
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or you could build an asset store into your viewer...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... that fetches clothings from your home realm...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, your ocal wardrobe, take it anywhere with you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|local*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It will probably be standard issue in viewers when girdauants become more widespread.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, I think I should have to worry neither about the local world provider nor about my own computer. Which means I need a seperate asset provider.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|asset transfer already works on hypergrid TP
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor: that's what we're working towards in VWRAP, decoupled asset service providers. Use whichever you want for your own assets, LL's, another providers', or an asset service on your own machine.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://boroon.dasgupta.ch/persistent_inventory/ (note that this text is rather old and from before I know about OGP/VWRAP)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As Lilly says
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/know/knew/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heheh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nothing, just that everyoen's so slient suddenly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think let's wrap it up for this week. I have to go, lots to do to get ready for the new Imprudence beta this weekend
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any final remarks?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aww, so no time for me talking?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted nods, indeed''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it should not be very hard to implement "infinite" clothing layer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL Lilly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Y?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although I don't have much to talk anyway, just even more text and undecipherable diagrams.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree Lilly. Just layer arbitrary texture to bake them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How's Imprudence going?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|textures*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_One_Infinity
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Many changes since Beta 1?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morg: Plenty of bug fixes, some quite important. Also some features that were coming down the pipeline.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fix for mac shortcuts ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been in OSgrid for multiple hours with Beta 1, doesn't fail. ++ :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm on it but it takes time to figure everything out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what mac shortcuts?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the grid manager not respecting the -grid flag annoys me :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lilly: Probably not for beta 2, but we'd love to have it in the next one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cmd-A on ASCII keyboard act as Cmd-Q
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Keyboard shortcuts are wrong on Mac when using a non-QWERTY layout
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Long time problem with the SL viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the jira entry exists for viewer 1.18
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still in 2.0 too?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dang
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I presume nobody uses a mac
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like ctrl-alt<f-key>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that surprises me.... most people who use SL™ are international
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted would've thought ti'd be higher on their list''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: now that Viewer2.0 has fixed the bug where scrolled up windows are reset to bottom on refocus, you really have no excuse for the bug in Impru :DDDD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think we can presume anything on what's high on their list.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe true
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, fixing it would be useful, ergo LL won't do it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We were joking that LL has finally fired Reset Linden :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|who's Reset ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone ever met Devnull Linden?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The Linden who auto-scrolls-down your IM window when you don't want it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lilly: The Linden who sprays window and camera resets all over the code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin: Does Devnull Linden delete all IMs and items you give to him?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|he never answered to that q ... dunno
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about CoreDump Linden ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He probably deleted your IM before he read the question, then
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|office hours are at feb 29th 4am I read
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's nice some Lindens still have a sense of humor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any1 read the opensourcedev mailing list ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte does''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wonder how Pink reacted to the Youtube video by Lindenlice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not since they named it opensource-dev...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax does''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted pokes at threads every now and again, but don't have time to much anymore''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| colspan="2"|''Lilly Zenovka read an interestig post about 2.0 interface this morning.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I read it sometimes. It's so angry lately, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Coders sure are a grumpy lot.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YX7FtzB3S0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well both the list and SG need to be independend from LL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then the anger will vanish (more or less)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not when they still have people making stuff like TPVP up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL should make a special mailing list for rants
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The list is so angry because LL is using mushroom management on FOSS devs. "Keep them in the dark, and feed them shit".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Nyahahaha.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol Morgaine. That's a very adept analogy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted wants that bucket''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Of manure?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no from the video, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, ah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|too funny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know Pink, but Latif says that's her to a 'T'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also it needs to be possible to contribute to SG without signing the LL agreement on the code going closed source
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|again :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a vile agreement. I doubt that everyone knows what it says, prolly trn off at the legalese
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|turn*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having developers assign rights to a central authority happens all the time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nah, forget Snowglobe. Everybody come work on Imprudence instead. ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|time for one real fork
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll think about it, Jacek ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, this is my project. http://nekotoba.nfshost.com/files/something.html#Personae
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli reads''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... sorry, I should have asked if people still want to read it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm reading it. Not sure what the project goal is though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... nah, it was a bad idea to show you guys this wall of text.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like text. I produce lots of it myself <grin>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I only read popup books sorry :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Lilly Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does any1 have a standalone patch for the hippogridmanager ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol @ "Mochisoft"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So this is a project to start from requirements interviews with 3 varied users, all the way to modifying a UI to suit them?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: I'd love to have you present your ideas in a few weeks, once it's more solidified
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, I do need to solidify it a lot.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I'd like that too. I would probably disagree, but would happily listen to the whole thing :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm to be designing a new build interface for SL in only two weeks, but there's no way you can figure that out from the report.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I've gotta go. Remember, our special visitor Lisa is coming next week to discuss SL accessibility for users with disabilities. Don't miss it! :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot! :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care, everyone!
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-03-05T02:44:40Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ March 4 - Viewer 2 UI (continued)

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04|March 4]] - Viewer 2 UI (continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-03-04

2010-03-05T02:43:48Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript, no summary

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for March 04, 2010.

'''Topic: Viewer 2 UI (continued).'''

== Summary ==

No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please edit this page to add one.

== Links ==

* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|Transcript of last week's discussion]]
* {{Jira|VWR-17545}}: no chat input in chat history
* [[User Interface Improvements]] - Benjamin Linden's old UI ideas
* {{Jira|VWR-17332}}: Merge 'nearby chat' (previously 'local chat', 'chat history') into conversation floater

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Today we're talking more about the Viewer 2 UI. Here's the transcript from last week's discussion, if anyone needs a refresher: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry, my Snowglobe 2 experience is a nightmare
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova waits for Charlette's hair to arrive''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Virtually no more network activity, down at 14 Kbps, and still no hair for Charlette. On Imprudence 1.3.0 Beta 1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|installed Sno 2 in the same directory and the 'good' version is now all scambled
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Everyone else sees Charlette's hair?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ATM I'm using the Second Life™ V2 and it stinks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't even see her skin.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh hair
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Arrived!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now that was a "shared experience"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you need then something that smells like lilac, Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i went back to 1.23
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice result, maybe V2 has instant delays
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's the sim, isn't it, sicne we all got it together, Unless she re-equipped
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey, not so bright
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte covers eyes''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|might be an appearance issue still, not sending the attahments untill the bakes are sent
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't go back to good old snowglobe - lots of UI is broken after uninstalling snow 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's talk about the UI, starting this week with the bottom bar.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you need to revet, kill the user directory
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|only new system folders etc will persist
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the bottom bar seems to have a strong focus on voice chat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those are server side
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll fire it up on another box
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good point Robin, but not very convenient
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm i ll relog, brb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no i don't like that, the text input is tiny, there is a massive chat button then two big wastes of space for minute by minute use for the controls
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/chat/voice/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i do however like the idea of the notifications and the IM docking there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|waste or screen realestate seems to be the Version 2 motto
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it's lot cleaner than before.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some of the features look smart and modern but need moving around to make better use of space for sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the grouping is somewhat more logic in 2.0, maybe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all the local communication stuff is lower left
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|menus are cleaner
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. Where's the switch to toggle voice chat on or off?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not unsimilar to what was proposed on sl-ux quite some while ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's the "Speak" button.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I find the look much more modern and graphically appealing. But nothing in the UI placement seems more logical or clean to me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean to enable/disable the whole feature
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You mute it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In prefs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh. There's the checkbox in prefrs, next to the volume slider.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still a cloud
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I get voice for a few people, but most don't have a dot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What do you guys think of the buttons they chose to put on the bottom? Speak, Gesture, Move, View, Snapshot?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's rather hard to translate.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|move is and ever was useless. the cam control is horrible.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i agree
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cam control could be made useful by making it analogue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but i like the idea of having a cam control in the overlaybar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's been like that for a long, long time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm is it me or has 2.0 changed the sit behaviour?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it might be my script...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are there any of those buttons that you would remove from the bottom bar? Or others you would add?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Map should be there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|map and minimap are missing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|every time i switch from old to new viewer, i get mashed up, sometimes naked, or 3 outfits in combination, it is hilarious
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|iv'e got patched data locations to avoid such things
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Map and minimap. Anything else feels like it is missing/needed?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and i now have folders in the old viewer, that came from the new one, it s ...a miracle
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well the control alt and f1 option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it should be easier, or at least working
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is still there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pertly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is that to hide the UI?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the top bar wont hide anymore
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so for me, 2.0 is useless
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as long as that is not fixed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, it seems buggy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that sound like a plain oversight. filed on jira?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WTH. The new update didn't fix 100% obvious faults like the 2-inch wide vicinity chat input box.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Just downlaoded)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and amanda promised it would be fixed on next update, but that didnt happen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the new update only brought new vivox.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The side dashboard doesn't hide either.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it does with control alt f1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather glad that LL didn't develop my OS
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah. I can't do Ctrl Alt F1, I'm on Linux.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Michelle2 Zenovka:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ctrl+alt+f1 thats linux change VT!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I tried from the menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Add a Shift I think on Linux is the general rule, no?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not for this one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That won't help here, Morg. Still switches terminals
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, you're right, just tried it, still switches. Bah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i really miss the inspect option, from the pie menu...is that anywhere else now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Another question: Did any of you notice that it's possible to hide most of the bottom bars by right clicking on the bottom bar?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*most of the bottom bar buttons
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chantal, no, but itl come back
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, why would anyone want to do that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do what, geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah cool, annoying buttons removed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Why would they want to hide the buttons?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the bar remains unlike the old viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's very good, being able to remove unwanted UI elements.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|custom buttons would be good, and easy to do too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Of course, you should be able to ADD elements too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, it's nice. But no one else noticed it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes that would be nice Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i was fighting too much else to notice that one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: not noticed because we're not accustomed to right-clicking frame in LL viewers yet.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I assume that no one noticed that you can also hide the top bars as well, by right clicking
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, that was intrusive enough stright away to warrent trying that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte knew that''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe, I guess I am a curious monkey, right clicking everything compulsively
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is anyone experiencing texture loading problems? I never did before ver 2 and see a lot of gray now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i miss my pie
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|try right-clicking names in chat history ... fancy new options there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm actually quite pleased with what they've done with right click menus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte misses the pies''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same for me charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Setting aside the pie menu, that is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|takes forever
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The trouble with removing the address bar is that the Home button disappears with it --- would be great if that could be dragged to the bottom bar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova tries dragging just in case ....''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm need a dragable/dockable xui element
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awwww :-( no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but lockable, too, so you don't reconfigure your UI by mistake
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want to revamp the XUI system so that there are "actions" that can be buttons, menus, whatever. Then drag them around anywhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bor++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And change key bindings
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's what we had in Anarchy Online's client, draggable and lockable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I'm too busy porting features from other viewers to do anything cool. >_< *sigh*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Erm. Never mind me. I'm just wallowing in self-pity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's talk about the chat system for a while
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: no self-pity needed --- Imprudence 1.3.0 Beta 1 is totally brilliant!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The chat bar, the "toasts" that pop up, the chat history, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Leave aside IMs for now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: those decorations are no help to me. And very distracting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And much worse (damn, must get this into Jira), the decorative popups seems to be interrupting chat character input. Every now and then you get a beep instead of the character entering
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually, I like the little profile picture icons. Helps distinguishing people that have similar looking names. Though, I'd be nice to have them inline to save space.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hate the chat 'toasts' even more than the bell sounds (if enabled) in the old viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*it'd
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the fixed size sidebar really is a failure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i prefer it siazble
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's stay on the topic of chat for now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that s a personal pref
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chat is merged, now, i see - much better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm astonished that the two chiclets at bottom right are the only way to get Conversations and Notices up. They're not even labelled, except by mouseover.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|needless to say, besides waste and the camera movement the fixed width is very limiting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about the "Nearby Chat" / chat history popup? Thoughts on that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If 2.0 is for newbies, it's a total fail. No map button, no conversations button
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's doing Ctrl-H or clicking the little up arrow next to the chat entry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17545
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the dual input on 1.x was really useful
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I managed to miss a friend invite (alt) using Ver 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|asdfds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you say so ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Recall is now Ctrl+↑
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i do not want the whole right part of my screen filled like that, i want to be able to make it smaller
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: That hasn't changed, did it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree Chantal or bigger when need be e.g. profiles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Recall history always was Ctrl + up/down arrows
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm... I guess not.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was originally a Snowglobe feature, wasn't it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i payed for my supernice moniti=or size
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and now it s limited
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't think so Bor, I don't remember NOT having history in SL chat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah really!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok got to run catch you all again on irc/awg/next week ;-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That I don't remember it, yes, really, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I remember it was a user-contributed feature on JIRA. But it pre-dated Snowglobe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Robin, thanks for coming by :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Robin :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, that might be
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what i love is the possibility to make the chatwindow smaller
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, that's nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can resize it much more, now that they haven' crammed friends/group list in the same window
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but even the old chat window size was reasonable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth tries, finds it so small it's funny.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe but a choice is always good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How do you mean "old", Charlette? 1.23, or pre-Communicate?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We are talking about the chat window ONCE CHANGED TO PLAIN, right? Because I just can't imagine anyone using the icon-diseased horror.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the 1.23 etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when you add the size of Chat and Conversations (caps) the sensible size (paractical) is bigger
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No seriously
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel about it ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, in plain language? Does anyone ever use the iconic version?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the icon chat is really bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not that bad, but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it s a bit confusing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't use Viewer 2 often enough to say whether I like the icons or not
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I said, I like the icons, but I hate they take a whole line of their own.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would be nice just to have them next to the text, like the timestamp
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The icon chat view is more functional (it allows some actions on the speaker, even objects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They take up 3 lines, not one. And they're think lines, not like the plain ones. Every conversation except with a sloth on depressants rolls off before you can read it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thick* lines
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|frankly Jacek I've gone from 100 hours plus a week of Second Life™ to about 10, the developments of the last few months made me get over it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte spends less time in SL and more time compiling it''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. Roll on Naali, even though there is nothing usable yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I would feel stronger about some of the problems (besides low FPS) if I was still hooked
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am fascinated by this window docking behavior.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|window docking?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, the little down-arrows in the title bar?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Being able to tear off the chat history and move it around, then click the icon to reattach it to the bottom bar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the magnetised floaters Jacek?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Same with IMs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that isn't bad at all, but HUD behaviour is still poor (half of Misty Toll is hidden now)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. I was just thinking.... how none of the ideas Benjamin Linden came up with in his old UI mockup were incorporated into Viewer 2.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahahahaha.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Benjamin didn't really cut cake for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He had a radical docking idea, where nearly everything in the UI would slide out from the sides of the screen when you hovered the mouse in that area
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|God, hover
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UI.accessibility == 0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, who would you trust? A internal department that only had 2 years of experience or an outside consultant that had many items under their portfolio and charges $$$ per hour?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hover is a bad UI paradigm, very mouse oriented
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Here's what I'm referring to: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Interface_Improvements
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps his concept was deemed too strange and unfriendly to newbies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a hover trigger doesn't mean there can't be a key combo, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that sounds interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It certainly has the advantage of not obscuring the view as much
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no it doesn't and I agree the sidebar is even more clumsy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The biggest disadvantage of hover is probably interfering with interaction with inworld objects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i.e. something sliding out and getting in your way, when you don't expect it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like windows 7 does all the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sick of the little button/icons on the side already, text has less of a visual fatigue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's move on and talk a while about IMs and group conversations, and whatever else pops up from the little conrner icon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Notices.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unlike CHAT, CONVERSATIONS window is big and I wish it worked like it did before - tear off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not notices yet, just the "Conversations"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well first of all, those chiclets are meaningless. And hover only
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, please send a group notice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How do you feel about the IM window?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope you all found the tabbed IM option in Preferences?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, tabbed and of course plain text
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|IM window? you mean the lag of loading names from huge groups - the lag is aparent even not showing pictures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure i found that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I just wish I could attach or tear off CONERSATONS from the main CHAT window
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|don't see why would they separate the two windows and text entry boxes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No vertical tabs, right? At least I couldn't find the control for vertical tabs when I was using 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17332
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I use vertical tabs as standard now in Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is that an improvement?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah I voted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Merging is fine as long as you can tear it off, of course.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|again, choice...is a good thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so many ppl, so many wishes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|VWR-17332 describes btw also a general issue: number of mousclicks increased for almost anything
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth laughs at the presentation of notification URBannedFromRegion: A toaster with a button. An "OK" button.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i love the new interface
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: It should be "Awww, darn"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I always keep vicinity separate in 1.x, even though it can be merged, simply because cross-referencing from vicinity to Groupies is so common
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What do you guys think of the IM window having the person's picture and action buttons in the (hidable) left panel?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Useful? Or waste of space?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|action buttons are waste of space ... that's what context menus are for
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having a picture is nice.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if i want to use twitter I use twitter.... waste.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: well it's a pointless feature since clicking on the left bit just opens up the sidebar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to get the sort options from 1.x back
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which sort options? To sort the group list?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there I can choose between alphabetical and who most recently said something, I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the conversation participation list
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sort freinds list...uh no different subject
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, general issue: in 1.x you can just start typing into almost any list that has focus to jump to the entry that starts with what you type
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doesn't work in 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. We're after 4:00. What other things in the UI have we not talked about yet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey i just found a way to work around the large list on the right...you file/open new window, and use that one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Apparently others aren't seeing our Imprudence tags, according to the answers I got when I asked among a bunch of Emerald users
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chantal: For Inventory?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have some idea about brining pie menus back without their drawbacks, but I think I'll send that to sl-ux
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|need to write that down properly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool, Boroondas. I'll look forward to that email :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|file, new window, then close the tabs and work from the newly opened window
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great now we can use the old style Inventory window and keep the new sidebar closed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the basic idea is to only have the most common options in the pie and allow for a conventional context menu for more options
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<---happy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I also heard that you can open a new inventory window with Ctrl-Shift-I, although I don't see it documented anywhere
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ctrl-Shift-i works
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No it doesn't.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ctrl-I works.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They do different things, Geneko. Ctrl-i opens the inventory side panel. Ctrl-shift-i opens a new inventory window
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what Jacek said
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ctrl I does the main sidebar Inventory not the floating (old style) one
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ha yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tha t s a fast way ty!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a shortlist, i bet there is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah good, I'll like Ctrl Shift I
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shortcut list?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Advanced > Shortcuts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What else in the UI should we talk about? Build tools are mostly the same I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure how but I now have a new menu "Develop"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The New Window command from Inventory still doesn't remember where it was last placed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there s a develop at the top...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that s new
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah the last item in Advanced
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about talking about the "Me" manu?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, for anyone tweaking XUI files: try ctrl-alt-(shift)-d on the login screen and then ctrl-t :-D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They wanted it to look like a web browser, we're told. So where is File, and why Me instead?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|except for Chantal everything has finally loaded for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how long did that take, almost an hour
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, in web browsers, "file" just contains all the stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have that too, and was told by a linden that it should make NO difference, old or new viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ARC 100000000000000000000000000000
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me is really not the best name, but it is precisely like the "Avatar" menu I talked about when we looked at refactoring the main menu items
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of it doesn't have to do with files
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's... more like what applications before web browsers would put in the File menu.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Open, close, print save.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well there should be a File, because Upload and Export and both file operations.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dunno - the german translation of the "me" menu is "Ich" which rather translates back to "I" ... is a "Me" menu as strange as a "I" menu ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|iMenu(tm)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin, I don't think you can carry over casus when translating this stuff out of sentences
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or you get stuff like the eBay "mich-Seite"n
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, of course you are right , Boroondas, ut what did you think about the "Ich" menu ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova starts to itch''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it's a nice idea. Has all the stuff that's about YOU.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(well, almost ... maybe more should be moved to there)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, then have a YOU menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe. But I'd still put a File top menu leftmost.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Old habits die hard?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my "Avatar" menu was a better choice I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Im using a File menu at the left since I had a ATARI 260ST
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually, the only thing this menu layout has in common with the conventional layout (File, Edit, View, Tools, Help) is that Help is on the right (unless you have Advanced enabled)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: a "File" menu is needed because there are File operations, so it's more than habit. And why not put it where it always is?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All three of them?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lots more are possible, just that LL is pretty stingy in import/export.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup file operations should have the File menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't even find the Upload of equivalent in 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's in the inventory's menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes in invent
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(or use the Ctrl-U shortcut)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is Add at the bottom of Inventory Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|under file
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You are kidding me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry a "+"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|control u is wonderful!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And this is UI design? Finding an obscure '+' somewhere is meant to be newbie friendly?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's also in the inventory's menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have you heard of newbies needing to upload textures?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure, we should ask newbies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but still a discoverability nightmare
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we are different sort of users
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See? Working as designed! And we're totally not asking the newbies about it. XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Putting upload in inventory seems natural to me?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes I agree Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it should also be somewhere in the main menu, I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nothing wrong putting it in inventory. Just the '+' isn't obvious
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's also in the inventory's File menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that should be obvious enough.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And once you understand that the "+" means "Make a new item", it makes sense
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|more technically speaking ... rebasing on that will drive us insane if we want anything usable for a user that isn't a computer noob
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, took me some time to find it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"+" is a poor choice of icon but the text under file is a natural choice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, it's OK there in Inv->File->Upload
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally, I think their icon use is poor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the gear is also very obscure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gear icon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup a disk icon would have been better than a "+"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i find the link on the inlog page has improved, the clickable link, is much clearer - took me a long time to grasp that this was a clickable link, in the old viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I'm not a fan of how they use the gear to mean "perform an action"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but what does a disk look like these days
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gear is 'settings' on most devices
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or other "technical" stuff
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a cog
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not everyday actions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I expected it to be configuration
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which is how I planned to use it in Imprudence. Now everyone will be confused when I do. *shakes her fist at LL*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a better idea for layout. Shorten address bar, move Search left, move L$ balance and Time left, delete godawful media controls, and extend the sidebar to the top. Then the Inventory File, Create, Sort menus will end up on the top bar, so it'll look like an extension of the LH menus.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what LL uses the gear for would be much better a little triangle (simplified up arrow), to indicate > "look, there's more"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Try the wrench.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, a wrench would be good too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, jus was looking up the word, yes, a wrench sounds good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although... Google Chrome uses a wrench to mean something else
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte thows in screw drivers''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah tell me then, what is a wrench lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i m a dutchie
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|spanner is better than wrench (word)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah a spanner
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Screwdrivers don't have a recognizable sihoette.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Same thing, US vs Brit words
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm that s a drink i think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about a hammer pounding a UI developer on the head for stealing my gear icon idea?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A hammer would be better.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a screwdriver, yammie
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hahahaha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sledgehammer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sickle
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|barley!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Make it a hamme rand sickle, to keep Prok happy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the hammer icon should make a 3D hammer appear and smash everything on your screen to relieve your stress
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the word "tool" isn't PG any more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hahahahaha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hammer, sickle, gear, what other elements on the seal of People's Repblic of China hasn't we mentioned yet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|need to keep Second Life™ helpfiles clean for the kiddies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://plywoodcomic.com/strip61.htm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|try and take the name natassja, when creating a new avatar, i dare u
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cos it contains ass
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe Boroondas
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dickburns would be out I suppose
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|used to be the most notorious griefer in Korea1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know some guy in rl, his name is cock
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|honest
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|every second name under the Second Life™ sun
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is possible in holland, but not in sl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey where is the search function
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ctrl-f
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Ctrl-F, or just type it in the top right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and, top right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since there aren't separate searches anymore :\
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, if you type gibberish into the location bar instead of slurls, it'll search for it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one weird question; my ARC doubled in viewer 2, even Morgaine is over 4k - is it the new rendering engine or a better measure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably a different measure, Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's the measure changed, I think, before, one prim is 1 pt, now it's 10pt... I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah attachments would make sense Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, is everyone red ARC now then?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Only your. :>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nearly, Armin you and me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm still 1492 in Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your sword is worth a lot more now Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And it's just my sword
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gotta go to bed ... not 2AM here :-/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|uh. my flexhair
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tc, all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|4186 Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Boroondas, sleep well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee Boro
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byw=e
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye Boroondas
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we are done for this week. Should we talk more about Viewer 2 next week, or have we discussed it enough?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, too late
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm a prim whore at 8803
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Without my katana I'm only 423
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is shocling
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see 1052...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|must take my clothes off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|where is the count now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(1052 for Morgaine)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gosh simple things, i cant find m'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah got it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lets add a ARC eater
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the bad implication of hiding the location bar is that there is no status (G, build script etc)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sigh, -I- used to have the lowest ARC around.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i wonder why i am so low
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't even know where those status symbols are anymore
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these boots are kick ass boots
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|n attachments Chantal
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Chantal Harvey:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, time for a prim penis
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my boots have lots of prims
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh yeah, Chantal, very nice boots
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sculpties count very low despite taking forever to load...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's adjourn. Take care everyone, and see you next week!
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-02-26T02:08:39Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ February 25 - Viewer 2 UI

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25|February 25]] - Viewer 2 UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-25

2010-02-26T02:08:02Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for February 25, 2010. '''Topic: Viewer 2 UI.''' == Summary == No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please ...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for February 25, 2010.

'''Topic: Viewer 2 UI.'''

== Summary ==

No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please edit this page to add one.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, so. Let's talk about Viewer 2!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Has everyone here at least tried it? I know Armin isn't running it because it wouldn't load his avatar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've run it for about thirty minutes...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been using Viewer2.0 since it was released, on Linux 32-bit. Not because I want to run this closed source crap, but because I want to learn how it works.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's pretty interesting to me. I don't agree with all the choices they made, but it's interesting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's totally stable on Linux 32-bit, and everything works. For a beta, I'm very surprised at the stabiity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the first impression was that my screen was full of sidebar - in the style of the kde4 menu - which is the first thing i switch off if i have to use kde4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, I think they've been monitoring your transcripts :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wish
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why wouldn't they?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha we are all monitored Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Malbers even comes around sometimes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure they record every word I say, but I doubt they pay attention to it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dont be so sure - see the little speaker on the right top side
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|click it - see the gear?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They stole my gear! *shakes her fist*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well at least now I don't have to draw the artwork myself.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, the big sidebar, yes, it has a ton of problems. But it's the start of the Zbrush model of interfacing that we've talking about at numerous meetings. They've implemented it terribly, but the core idea of a frame into which things switch, and a resizing 3D area so that the 3D does not get obscured, that's present, at least as a start. So I'm impressed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah did anyone find the sound mixer yet (besides the one in preferences)?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The only one is in the prefs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think there is only the one in prefs, plus the volume slider in the top right.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Media mixer is an utter disaster, and they know it. Apparently some moron decided the old one was "too much clutter for newbies", and so they added that hopeless one up top in the last week. Utter disaster.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is crappy, I liked to mute sounds when people get out of hand
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, you click the Forward icon at top right, and the rest of a useless panel drops down
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the cam control is a desaster - i love finetuned camming with the floater - having to switch between rotate and pan is cruel to me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have o give it negative marks it's so bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but there is a GOOD feature for sound - "Play media attached to other avatars" HAHA
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the distressing thing about it is that the old media widget was the prettiest thing in their viewer .... and they zapped it! /me is incredulous
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's pretty, but it takes up way too much space.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's tiny Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW the location bar (URL) says this location is "Moderate" instead of Mature
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|64 pixels is "tiny"? Yeah right.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, they changed the "PG", "Mature", "AO" to "General", "Moderate", "Adult"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just over a square inch on my screen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, gone are "PG" and "Mature", ratings are now "General" and "Moderate"...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One square inch! That is too much space already.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree Morgaine - the old mixer was the most developed piece of the UI in viewer 1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are you referring to, Geneko? Too much space?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi lufpleh, have a seat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi luf
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the PG I agree on but what does Moderate mean??
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The mixer toolbar. I don't mind the mixer itself, but the folded toolbar takes up way too much space.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Morgaine, all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Moderate = But Not Too Adult
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth laughs''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|17 3/4?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or 18 1/2 ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what was wrong with Mature?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It was too Mature. XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well LL never really figured out what its cateogories meant, once Adult was introduced. So if this new naming seems to mean nothing, that's probably an accurate reflection.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah I think semantically Mature says "not for kids" but moderate says you need to watch what you say
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a distinction in meaning between mature and adult?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mature and Adult? 17+ and 18+.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There shouldn't be any, but because there are all kinds of laws there is.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to me mature means behave like an grwon up, adult = porn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|think i get it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Only in LL's puritan mind. They seem to regard Adult material as somehow reprehensible.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, same for me luf
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bleh, let's stop talking about Moderate and Mature.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, let';s talk UIs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|moderate is confusing, to close to PG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's talk about the visual style / skin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like the idea that they put thumbnail of avatars everywhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dark gray, with some green accents.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, if you use a freenis like the Lindens do - all Mature issues are repulsive
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And some gradiants -- thankfully not awful ones
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|petrol looks good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I read that the skin was relagated priority as they had so much else to do
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It looks like the new SL website more than the old viewer and the old website does.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and all writing is good readible
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Reinforcing the SL banding/brand identity, so as to speak...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well I have only 3 good things to say about Viewer2.0, as the rest is either the same or worse than V1. Those are (i) The chat window scroll position reset but has at long last been fixed, so that windows no longer lose their scrolled position, (i) The Zbrush-like sidebar (but done terribly!), and (iii) The much prettier overall skinning.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I were someone who believes that LL is trying to shift focus from in-world content creators to themselves, I might cite this new color scheme as enforcing a branding for in-world content.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the ui looks very cleaned up and not overloaded anymore. (leaving out lack of functionality here)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's probably why they're closed sourcing their viewer, Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Like Wikia did to many wikis they hosted... which was an event I absolutely despite and led to WikiFur moving out)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dont like the way if you pop open chat history, trhen close it, very recent chat is not shown
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hate the new profile in sidebar Morgaine; and the fact that the sidebar pane shifts the 3D camera position, besides the lack of detaching in what used to be done with floaters
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think they would keep the viewer source under wraps for long, but these guys just don't get Open Source.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Admittedly it's not confirmed yet that LL Viewer2.0 will be closed source, but it's near as certain that it's so, after Amanda Linden's remarks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|She effectively said that "All our open source will be in Snowglobe"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's stick to the UI, please
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's take a look at the side drawer thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a technical reason why they made the world shift left when the sidebar pops out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: yes, the shifting is part of the "done badly" bit. When the panel is opened, nothing at all should change, except for 3D resizing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It looks better...?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the Open Source aspect is relevant too Jacek, else we will be limited to editing XML
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|luf: it's not shifting, it's resized
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The open source business is off topic today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have we ever been on-topic?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can we try to be on-topic for once?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree Morgaine, the camera should stay in the same spot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Once or twice. ;P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's so that you don't lose any of the 3D view when 2D UI pops up. But it's not been done well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<_<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Currently it's half ay house
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|half way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They probably intended the drawer to be used full-screen.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW the profile seems huge and yet the pics are tiny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm undecided about the camera change. On the one hand, I find it distracting (and a little bit dizzying). But I'm not sure I would want it always covering up half my view either.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not to mention a different aspect ration than the ones used in other viewers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So everything is squished.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think user should have to move the camera Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|find it very disconcerting the way it does that, would prefer to have the option just to slide over the top if I wanted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can't have it both ways, Geneko. Either the resolution is changed so the visible area is compressed (but not squished, aspect ratio is the same), or else your 2D UI obscures your 3D view. I hate the obscuring.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if the sidepanel is to be kept open the user would move the cam, else the view would be obscured for the time the thing is being used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The new profile pictures are certainly designed to have people take only a head shot of their avatar, since it shows up everywhere... this is different from the established practice that the profile picture is a eye-catching snapshot. Imprudence's profile page enlarges the profile picture for this very reason.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. But if they kept it open all the time, while they were moving, then it would always be off center of their avatar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If the view didn't shift
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: you could crop it...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also the fixed size sidebar is very limiting, eg the inventory names and any room to show more attributes will be compromised
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe it's just LL's way to force people to make shorter names?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The main trouble is that they've only half respected the Zbrush paradigm. There is no way to move the UI components around, and there is only one dock/frame, and you can't have multiple UI elements docked to the frame.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have a 3d viewer - why can't the sidebar be moved on the axis "into" the screen - out of my view behind what i want to see (counts also for floaters)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because your control is only 2D?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so lets ad a control 4 the 3rd dimension
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, what Armin means is placing the 2D UI at infinity. That's certainly doable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. That's an interesting thought. But it would be a bit strange, I think. People would jump in front of your chat, and walls could block it, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be just a visual effect, then.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Plus a key to bring it to the foreground
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: That already happens with bubble chat...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do think there should be more UI visual effects.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's talk about the contents of the side bar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would love to try it Jacek, if you want to poke it into Imprudence as an experimental feature :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's pretty cool actually.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The various tabs and their panels. Home, Profile, People, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a lot of useless pictures "this is your FOO"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to look into a 'real' 3D UI for SL e.g. a toolbar that can be rotated in 3D to reveal various faces including showing 3 faces at once (skewed in perspective)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the way Torleys tutorials describe the sidebar as "transition" I think LL have a lot of plans for content changing in the sidebar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|First complaint about sidebar: why can't I open it with a keystroke?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the tabs are OK I think, but the sidebar display seems like a lot of wasted space
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's your *first* complaint, Morgaine? More like your tenth. ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The biggest problem with the tabs is, only one at a time!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like how landmark and inventory are separated, since using landmark is usually a different goal than those you would access the other parts of your inventory.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's an interesting point. Is it possible to drag an item from your inventory to a profile anymore?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: well I'm trying to be generous to them :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if I click on the World tab, the Map button at the bottom is greyed out, why if I want the map of my current location can I not just click Map
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some aspects (views) of sidebar can be opened and closed with keystrokes e.g. Ctrl+Shit+A
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll test it, giving someone a script
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope, can't
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh. sidebar and gererally - anything is opaque
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it's totally one tab at a time. Bleh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would have thought clicking a globe icon would automatically give me option to look at a map
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know from McCabe, who also heard it from someone else, that you can open a separate inventory floater with Ctrl-Shift-I. But I don't see it documented in the viewer anywhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK my main complaint is the waste of screen realestate, location bar, statusbar at bottom and sidebar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Location bar. Oh, that is so...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If they retain this "one tab at a time" aspect of the sidebar, the interface is inherently weaker than V1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Depends, This interface is probably built for newbies.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Newbies who don't want to give things to people on their friends list ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, that's a delusion of Big Spaceship's that somehow they sold LL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, there is a "share" button on the friends list...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe they will change it so that when you drag an item over the People tab for a few moments, it will switch to that tab, so you can drag it to a name
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or a profile
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's what I just tried, but the tab didn't open.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It doesn't do that already?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|newbies? maybe, but an advanced user UI options should be the main objective or else people will never stay long enough to become advanced
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe the coming revamp of the Inventory tab will have a Send to option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oldbies, go use Snowglobe. ^_-
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No no, that's not their plan
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Profile is horrid in my view, perhaps the most compromised besides the sound mixer, which seems to have been lost
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Snowglobe is intended to migrate into a Webkit type framework, not a viewer. But that's way down the line.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You're speculating, Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's clear what their viewer strategy is --- to have total exclusivity over the SL viewer space, because everyone else will have to use just their kit of parts.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: no, they said it will be migrating to a Webkit-type framework.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: That doesn't make any sense.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW I can't see anything related to improved shadows or lighting like T Linden said in his powerpoint preso, nothing on the mesh either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I have said ove and over, mesh didn't make it into Viewer2.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They didn't say that Snowglobe would cease to be a viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway, we're off topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you mean the policy is a long rephrasing of 3rd party viewers are banned, morgaine?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It does make sense, when you consider the following: they have admitted defeat internally with being able to compete with Emerald.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And speaking of Emerald! You can now do multiple attachments per point in Viewer2.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But anyway, can we talk about the profile?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So this is protectionism rearing its ugly head.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's why they've closed the source to V2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, let's talk about the profile. What's on your mind, Geneko?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah the mixer pane from prefs can be accessed from the || next to volume slider now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... the "no image" head. Is ugly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah Charlette, that's what I said earlier. But it works very badly, and video control is missing altogether
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that they changed the semantics of the profile picture.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hate the profile as it looks now, especially the mixed tab content e.g. SL/RL pics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And you can't choose to not show the RL pic.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, it's an.... "interesting" choice that they decided to put SL and RL right next to each other to compare.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could always just use to SL pics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*two
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that the Notes tab on your own avatar and the interests tab has disappeared.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And the new layout also reduces the amount of space visible for the text. On my profile, you have to click "More" to read it all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The "no image" image isn't furry either. It's disappointing to see they have ignored this class of users.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes Gen - that is odd, I think one could use notes on one's own (alts etc) av
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, they kinda killed a bunch of ways that people were using the profile.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No web tab either, although it has a link to open in a new window.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One thing I like is making the web profile tab into just a link. Most of those web pages won't fit into the profile tab anyway.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the "More" view of a Picture is nice (bigger) but the whole thing seems less prsctical and is missing the interests/languages part
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well "space usage" is a whole topic in its own right for this viewer. Apart from the 3D resizing, they earn an F. What were they thinking with 5-line event descriptions and 3-line icon chat ....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey, classified shows up in picks now... but, maybe they should be displayed before picks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have "about:blank" on my profile tab, opens the Find/Search?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lufpleh: not for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|goos one lufpeh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe that is because you are in a 'Busy' mode HEHE
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thinking maybe it will lead to/tie in with some web profile with more space/details
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's move on to the bottom bar for a few minutes before we adjourn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|b-but we haven't talked about the "inspector" yet!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone ahve any problems with antyaliasing? mine is 'off' regardless of what I set it to
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can talk more about Viewer 2 next week if you guys want
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: apparently you have to restart the viewer for it to take effect
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anywhere talk about open/closed source?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(on topic there)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|button bar? is that where the staus bar normally is???? UI coventions say the stausbar is where the user should not look for interaction exept for error details etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Conveention shmovention!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Has there been much discussion about the impact of V2 Imprudence yet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And besides. Many video games do have the convention to use the bottom of the screen for chat and some buttons.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen the whole world is built on conventions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on* Impru
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Has there been any discussion about the Impact of Imprudence on residents yet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: We haven't talked about it a whole lot. We'll merge the media stuff and avatar alpha certainly. Probably the UI engine changes, I'm sure there's a lot of improvement under the hood.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like that the Chat box is obvious/visible for new users
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We haven't talked about UI layouts or anything yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Eh? It has a large impact on residents, Gen. Not as large as Emerald, but it's very well known as a stable and well featured viewer. And it's very popular in Opensim now too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the question is if we can have a release that connects to SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|[citation needed]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|regarding Imprudence I think the OS issue is unavoidable - or do you intend to resync to Snow trunk now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, yeah. We're more concerned about the new policy than about the new viewer, at the moment.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|TPV document was written by monkeys. Dropout monkeys.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not too concerned, though. Personally, I plan to ignore the unreasonable parts of the policy until/unless LL contacts us about it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|policy? you mean the third party viewer register (blacklist)?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No and no, Charlette. No it's not a blacklist, and no I mean the new policy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|surely Imprudence would pass the test and wouldn't be marred by the few bits of Emerald code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well as it stands, the sources are no longer GPL. But Soft now realizes what a complete pile of rubbish the TPV is.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's more to it than that. Technically, for anyone to use Imprudence to connect to SL, we developers have to (among other things) agree that we will obey LL's every whim from now on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That will be fixed. No way are they going to risk loss of GPL on Snowglobe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Jacek. Fortunetly that's not allowed under GPL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the problem is that the no longer gpl source is required to be gpl to be not in violation of the policy ... odd, isn't it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it was written by Cyn, of some other person in C.R. without the slightest clue about GPL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway, I expect there will be some revisions to the policy. It's utter garbage right now, both in content and in writing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The GPL doesn't forbid service providers ban clients from their network, but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, this is crap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I believe it's Marty's work, Morg. Same guy who wrote the trademark guidelines (which were also poorly worded garbage)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: GPL is not concerned with connection to services. It's only concerned withe freedom of developers to modify and distribute the GPL program, and it's those things that this braindead document murdered.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And with liability
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Exactly my point.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Apparently Cyn or Marty don't understand the words "NO WARRANTY"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's call UXIG adjourned and I'll stop taking transcript
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we'll continue talking abouth the Viewer 2 UI next week, since there's still more to cover
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-02-19T00:08:55Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ February 18 - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18|February 18]] - Open Topic (Miscellaneous)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-11|February 11]] - Kakurady's Build Tools Project
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-18

2010-02-19T00:06:45Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript, no summary

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for February 18, 2010.

'''Topic: Open Topic (Miscellaneous).'''

== Summary ==

No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please edit this page to add one.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey hey
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Azwaldo!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, have you met Omei Turnbull?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Omei, Jacek is our fearless leader in UXIG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have not. Hello, Omei :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think so. Hi, Omei.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean Hi, Jacek.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, what would you say is the focus of the Imprudence viewer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is on my list, but i have only DL'd Snowglobe yesterday
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|howdy Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello, Armin.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The focus of Imprudence is on improving the user interface of the viewer, and the user experience in general.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry about the cigar, hope nobody has to cough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We have a manifesto we wrote when we started the project, to explain our goals and rationale: http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Manifesto
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you have any idea how the Linden 2.0 viewer is going to affect you?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not yet. We don't really know what the viewer will be like. Maybe people will love it, or maybe they will hate it. Maybe it will have useful new enhancements, or maybe it will be a bunch of shiny garbage.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We are hoping that of the people who don't like the new UI, at least some of them will try out Imprudence and like it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is your motivation for putting effort into Imprudence?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have fun coding :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's a good reason.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was disappointing to contribute to LL - and seeing even 1line patches not going to anywhere
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|howdy Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Omei Turnbull:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I know. I had a good rapport with Qarl re sculpties, but it became clear that even with Qarl's ear, it was difficult to have much influence on the Linden viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, seen the animation crash jiras i've been posting?, i think i sent you one in IRC?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I saw the one you sent me in IRC. Did you find more?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2 more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh boy :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SNOW-488
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|patched
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and SNOW-492 workng on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The more viewers we can get patched the better and the less effective this type of greifing will become
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep. I'll be sure to have them patched in Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyone have a UX topic you want to discuss today?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have just added this to the UXIG discussion page: Occasionally, I think of UI features that I think are worth mention in UXIG; but, even though I make notes, I forget about them when Thursday comes 'round. Is there a suitable place in the UXIG wiki pages for a "Notes" or "Wishlist" section?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and, will mention two items here...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You could add them to the topics page, or IM / email me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or do you mean something else?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Topics page: OK, they are usually minor observations, like...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i liked to see use of messaging independent from the grid service provider - but i think it would be good to be prepared for that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why isn't there a maximize button in the chat console? (I can minimize, but cannot make it full screen size; which would be useful when lots of text is scrolling.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so maybe better sometime in future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Funny you should mention that. I don't think the viewer even has maximize buttons anywhere. *checks*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok SNOW-492 has a patch, amazed the jira police have not shouted these shouuld be SEC project, ;-) got to run
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/saves the patch before the jira police does
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for instance at a live event, when the back chat is heavy...I often drag the resize handle wide, to catch up with all the chatter
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, that's a good observation Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've scanned the source code just now, and I can give you something of an explanation. The viewer has not been programmed with any concept of "maximizing" a window inside the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't say for sure why LL did not implement maximizing, but I assume that they didn't think it was needed at the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey hey Saijanai
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Sai, welcome
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or why can't I bookmark/favorite an avatar? On the Internet, we surf around and mark the spots we want to come back to...if I want to have a look at Robin Cornelius' profile later...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi lo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm. reading this i assume i was missing max buttons, too, and for a long time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is this UGIX
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG, yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|iknewthat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Saijanai
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi all :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|little things like that do not strike me as "topical", but i can enter them there (topics page in UXIG wiki space)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry to be late, we were talking about potentially making a new viewer, if LL is ignoring community (referring to the client-side scripting debacle in opensource-dev)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Who would create the new viewer, Morgaine?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the biggest issue is that we don't know if it is being ignored or not
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I assume not LL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|realXtend is already creating such a viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it was empty talk, Jacek. Just a result of frustration with LL, methinks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine consider making a new *server* which is gpl
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I'm betting on Naali.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensim is bsd. I beieve realixtend is either bsd or mit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sai: correct, on the "issue". LL are simply not talking. And Q's response might as well have been "We don't want to talk to anyone".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even though it has some upsides opensim devs do not know the client code it ist in general a bit ... er ... strange
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|though, I'm not sure how far along their server project is. I know they're cooperating with OpenSim so possibly they aren't actively working on a separate server
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not a separate server, it's based on Opensim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Taiga#What_is_Taiga.3F
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK wasnt sure. I know when they first started they were talking about their own from scratch server but then they aonnounced they were working with opensim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Opensim + modCB + modREX + CB + OpenID OP.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is today open topic?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|btw ... how do I best offer a TP to someone at foo-grid while I am in the bar-trix?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Yeah, open topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova nods''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin: I have no idea. Right now, I don't think it's possible?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Except maybe to give them a "slurl" but tell them to switch to the other grid first
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Meerkat was most of the way there, since you could do intergrid TPs. It seems to have died now though, allegedly with some devs coming to Impru, no?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I went back and forth between SL and OSgrid many times on Meerkat. Vey flakey, but it worked.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The trouble I'm told is that LL's viewer classes never expected to have to cleanup ready for a login to a different grid.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have still the issue that groups arent cleaned up when hopping and sometimes your bodyparts rez in lost+found ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which is why a server crash dumps you on your butt, instead of returning to the login screen.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I bet it must be fun to work on Naali... not having to deal with a bunch of awful legacy code.... *sighs wistfully, watches the clouds roll by*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sympathies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fun thread starting at my post here -- https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/000088.html
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd love to be a fly on the wall at LL, before and after Q wrote his short and very silly piece.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I've been looking at that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|from my side we can join naali as soon as i get it compiled ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I started getting it compiled too. It's got some relly crappy dependencies, like PythonQt, but I'm hitting them with a hammer and they're slowing bending into shape.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i cant get qt 4.6 without breaking my system ;(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ditto, I'm all 4.5.3. As I said, the reX guys use some really crappy dependencies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|porbably made sense to them. Different countries have different priorities.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm still trying to get them to set up a talk about realxtend at the groupies meeting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye, but when a package is so crappy that it doesn't even have a config system with dependency checking, then the right approach is to import it into your package, until upstream finally gets its act together and you can remove your copy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I really can't fathom what LL are doing, at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any news about when they want to deliver 2.0 ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|an acquintance recently remarked about OpenSim: "...that project is in such a mess! I don't see how anyone takes it seriously anymore." - - Do any of you have reason for doubt as to the potential with OpenSim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hah, did you see Maggie's paste on Groupies? Classic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was looking at opensim 2ys ago the first time. it was almost nothing. today it is almost like being in SL ... my guess is that it is better in about 1 year
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|better += than SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(another 3 ys that users understand it)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think let's adjourn for this week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care, everyone!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take care Jacek :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you Jacek. Sorry not much of a meeting this time :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thankees :-)
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-02-05T01:33:03Z

Jacek Antonelli: February 4 - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04|February 4]] - Avatars United, Forums Upgrades
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-02-04

2010-02-05T01:32:13Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for February 04, 2010. '''Topic: Avatars United, Forums Upgrades.''' == Summary == We discussed two recent announcem...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for February 04, 2010.

'''Topic: Avatars United, Forums Upgrades.'''

== Summary ==

We discussed two recent announcements from Linden Lab: the acquisition of Avatars United, and the upcoming forums update.

== Links ==

* [http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2010/01/29/avatars-unite Avatars United blog post]
* [http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/02/01/upgrading-the-forums Forums upgrade blog post]
* [http://video.pbs.org/video/1402987791/ 'Digital Nation' Documentary]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hiya
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any topic ideas?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the same topic as every night ... try to take over the viewer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Today we are talking about Avatars United and the upcoming forum upgrades
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Avatars United?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scnr
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no idea here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|was that a joke
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is rainbow linden joining?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry I'm slow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sl-ux/2010-February/000364.html
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I had a thought which isn't the most obvious user need, tell you about it later
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG I had a blog post (2) THAT TURNED INTO FLAME WARS
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shit sorry caps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|THAT TURNED INTO FLAME WARS is good for caps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha it is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when I read M say 'intuitive' I puke
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe the snowglobe meeting will go an hour late and I can just sleep the whole time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even worse when he says 'more intuitive'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry, aib tlagging...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ni Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And they are still going about nobody-knows-what...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|perhaps I'm just loosing it (feeling) for SL, but all these bull Lindens gobble up these days makes me snigger
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|By the way Armin, I tried the Snowglobe code last night, it worked great on Linux32 and Mac. Rezzing seems way faster now :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/ ©
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek you rebased Imp into Snow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would be good news
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i spent 2 1/2 hrs at ahern today and 3 in lbsa plaza yesterday, without crash
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not exactly. Armin ported part of SG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So Imprudence will have the same fast loading as Snowglobe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, sadly i left out the map
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|armin I expect 20 hours plus, but I know what ahern is like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the HTTP texture stuff?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, it's still UDP-based.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi lufpleh, welcome
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you are right, charlette, but after 2 1/2 i wasnt in the mood to listen to kirstenlee anymore
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the Snow map is UDP Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean the texture fetch in general.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no really
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha agree, 2 hours of Ahern is a sick stomach anyway
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Gen, but the map is HTTP I thought
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, but that map won't work on OpenSim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi MM :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I guess we had better start. I'm not sure how much longer Merov will keep going
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Merov wants to stop,
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they don't let him.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|he just logged off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and hi lufpleh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or he was goign to rather
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nyahahahaha.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... and can somebody tell me why there's an Aimee Linden at today's meeting?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, so. Today we're talking about Avatars United and the upcoming SL forum upgrades. If you haven't seen the blog posts already, take a look: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sl-ux/2010-February/000364.html
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have any of you tried out Avatars United already?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't tried AU. Does it work in the viewer or not?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is just Facebook for Second Life, right? No thanks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think so. It's just a website, I think.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is AU in short - an avie facebook?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same feeling Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: And other MMOs. WoW, EVE, etc. Although I'm not sure if that will last now that LL has acquired them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we must be getting inbread here at UXIG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well if LL owns it it is Second Life™
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not yet. should I (I'm here to find out)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's your impression of AU, lufpleh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|M Linden has expressley said they want to continue it being a multi platform site
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its freaking useless
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure M is about as in touch with SN and Viral Networking as a banker on Twitter
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even if it's meant to be used with other virtual worlds, the fact that LL owns it would mean it will be somewhat biased towards SL. Mostly for the people who join I guess.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I can register there Armin Lin... no thats silly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not just biased, skewed full tilt
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does it have any redeeming qualities, lufpleh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment there are 40k + avatars on it, WoW makes up 20K + of them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought WoW already had the Armory?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|today there were about 5.6k SL accounts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|last week it was somewhere down in the hundreds of SL accounts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cant tell hhow many are dead/dormant accounts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so what is the point? besides the facebook analogy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it looks like a pretty dead site
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's precisely the point...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well SL users are scattered all over social media
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|from Twitter, Facebook, Plurk, Friendster, Flicker
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe hte ide is to bring them together as a community
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I actually would prefer (and do) to use facebook, it provides the best bridge out of Second Life™ to RL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|FB maybe has nice itnerface
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The blog said something about group management. Any idea how that would happen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although apparently Facebook doesn't want avatars, and is kicking any they find.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|don't see the point in making the avatar based distinction
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but many SL users wiould scream at links due to privacy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|FB has had several ciulls of SL accounts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really, mine is an avatar page and registered name is Charlette Proto
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its part of FB ToS you must use RL identity
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha didn't read it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|makes it esier for the child molesters?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|from what I seen of Avatar United, looked like a site that was semi dead
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all want to molest Char after seeing the pictures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if LL can bring everyone together on AU
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it makes a good portal/advertising/promotional site
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well the top link on AU didn't work for me just then
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Isn't the whole point of SL to bring people together?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as fro Groups, would be a lot easier to establish/maintain groups on a web site like a forum
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|create profiles (learn more) went to a blank page
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you can access the site from within SL you stillhave the immersion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the forums and blogs LL runs should be the outworld portal for Second Life™ avs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are there and plans to integrate it into SL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this way you can link to existing stuff easier (web UI)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*any*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we only speculating
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or I am anyways
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been asked a few times by users if there is any way (besides moving focus away from viewer) to reduce the load on the PC, but still use comms etc - any thoughts???
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Framerate cap?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the separate comms windows in UI would obviously be a good move, but low FPS rendering may be a good thought
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The low fps would affect the appearance of typing as well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|give it less CPU, conserve the load and energy, but see the world as is (slow)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, but 3D rendering could be throttled separately
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like a low FPS postcard with emphases on comms side of things
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But then, if you're only chatting, do you care about the load on the PC?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. Well, high loads will drain laptop batteries faster.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some people want to run it multitasking and low spec machines eg notebook on battery would last longer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| colspan="2"|''Mm Alder is anchored to a desktop''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL have to think about the whole fututre of computing being low power & mobile
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I tried a small window, not much change and comms very compromised
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i wouldnt mind having a chat client with about 1/60 fps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah a phone comms app like Ajax plus slow 3D would be nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is SLim (if anyone remembers that, heh). But that doesn't have any 3D view at all, and no way to move around.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Armin, especially when you want to be in two places or like we said low load is prfered
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Slim had no 3D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is essential to see the world I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is why Ajax is of no use really
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's transition and talk about the forum upgrades for a while. https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/02/01/upgrading-the-forums
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Catch 22 then. You can't have your world and not draw it at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1 FPS would still give you a feeling of being there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's just render everyone as impostors
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And make the world a 2-d side scrolling then!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|slim had some other flaws. when i read the eula i decided not to install it since the only thing i really understood was that i'm only allowed to install it if i understand the eula
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like AU, the forums are a way for SL residents to communicate with each other outside of SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dont see what the fuss is about the forums, its a transition/upgrade
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah forums? why are blogs just another forum when it comes to web UI etc (comments)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, some residents want to post some topics and not just reply to them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought they can Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then there's even less reason to maintain two systems at once.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lexi Linden emailed me to say I should post forum threads instead of blogs, so I thought it was open to residents
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I don't see anything special about moving forums.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The old forums had some issues, both from the user's standpoint and LL's standpoint of maintaining it. But I think many users are not very pleased with the new software.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but never strted a forum yet, will try now (not quite this minute)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the only forum i read regulary was the linux client testers forum and that is almost dead since december 2008
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|looking at the Forums link Lexie gave me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|looks like a duplication of blogs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even same topics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm reading to see whether the old forum posts will be moved over to the new forums. The impression I have is that the old forums will be archived, but not moved over.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does seem odd to me LL are doing both AU and new forums
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|archieved is what I heard
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|similar topics in new forum, but fewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|remove some of the spread/dead wood
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, apparently it won't have as many different forums sections as the old forums
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is adding a new system going to help? I'm not sure it is a good move
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|More "focused" is the word.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|from reading the post I got the impression LL being trying to do stuff/improve the old forms and being hampered by the provider
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it came together as a package with the blogs, so why not use it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. From the comments on this blog post, it looks like users are concerned that the new software is harder to use. And that the search feature is much less useful.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Among other things.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|search and LL is always a nono
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is true. The new blog is confusing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But, hopefully these issues can be resolved over time, if this new software is as extensible as LL believes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha but once you have URLs what can be organised
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i joke din another chat about the blog, on AU each user can host his own groups and forums, thats why they bought AU, so they dont have to bother listening to residents or maintaing forums, the users can sort themselves out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the structure (hierarchy) should be in place before you allow for posts, but maybe the number based URLs can copeanyway
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are the forums on AU any better than this new software, lufpleh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2010/02/01/calling-all-support-blog-readers#comment-773866
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nothing I seen on AU is good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even the crappiest forum and blog software can be accepted as long as the content is good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A resi's lament on Clearspace...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would say no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to me it sounds like a big mess again
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|me agrees with Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can't LL deploy a webpage any more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to me it looks like an impulse buy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when you get a close look at AU it is pretty tatty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|honestly I may be getting tired of LL, but they seem to be going down feet first
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on the up side AU has a lot of potential!! lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if AU is not a runaway success (I never heard of it till today) then it a waste of effort trying to integrate it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think its part of the grand plan to attract/retain new users
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|blogs, forums, wiki, AU, how many branches can you have
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See Charlette, you already forgot the virtual world itself.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah new users, but our word of mouth and good will is the best way to grow Second Life™ population, not free download for people with no idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I disagree, there's only so fast you can grow a community by word-of-mouth.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes MM, maybe two days online is enough to forget the whole thing was a meeting place
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well SL got another mention on PBS TV this week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but Gen, noobs without a clue are just a waste of account space and av names
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not if they are a rich noob happy to spend RL $
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well TV hype has always worked for LL, mentioned millionaires and sex bed scandal i suppose
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually it was quite favorable. interviewed Phillip Linden
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as ususal
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seen him tell the bullshit many times, always the same
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thought it was very positive about virtual worlds being a definite of the future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth smirks''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once I did some figures based on the $ he talked about - total crap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://video.pbs.org/video/1402987791/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My professor also says that virtual world is the way of the future.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks MM
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the empty IBM building was a little spooky
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if IBM offices are emptying now how long before other business follow suit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|86 minutes, I'll look later haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think IBM is moving behind their own firewall
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Real Life™ business in SL simply doesn't work - get griefed and freak
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, you can go directly to the Chapters in the video. Nice Ui there. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Mm it looks neat and functional
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you for the link, Mm.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy Jacek, greetings all. Regarding FPS and lag and such, can can anyone recommend a wiki article or blog post about the Statistics Bar (and how to use it)? Have looked at the SL Wiki page, hoping that someone has addressed this in a more thorough sort of guide.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*SL Wiki Statistics Bar page
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which is the Statistics Bar?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am often asked about sim performance, lag, etc. I always send them to you guys.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The thing I always open when I use SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|( I got a lot of freezes and slowdowns...)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Statistics bar is great (lots of subsection can be opened) but UI is a bit crude
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|View > Statistics Bar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It wasn't meant for public consumption, but everyone used it anyway, so it got moved out of the Advanced menu.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually the Imprudence Stats bar has a few more problems (persistance of opions used)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one more thing on the main topic, why couldn't the menu Help include blogs and forums (content dropdowns)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The blog is on the Help menu.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you mean Imprudence or SL, Charlette?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|perhaps a feed of live data from web is unrealistic in a menu, but top of hiererchy should be easy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|both
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even custom ones eg Imp threads in Imp help menu
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would make sense next to JIRA
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You'd like a list of blog/forum posts in the help menu, like from RSS?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Linden used to do links to blog posts on the login page
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of "Bug Reporting" make a WEB menu and include blogs etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah I miss the links on the login page
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially the current info
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about giving the user X open slots to assign web URLs, like having Favorites/Bookmarks in a browser?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting ideas
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it isn't dynamic at runtime
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xml gets parsed once if I'm not wrong
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|viewer 2 will have some SLUR bookmarks I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can create menus on the fly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah than there is a good chance Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and dynamic lists are easy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one could just use a hosted page for each viewer live
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's wrap it up for this week, I think. Any final remarks about AU/forums?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Zzzzz
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|make the UI point to a URL and new/current content could improve the outworld aspect of Second Life™ viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a mess Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want LL to do something impressive. :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd rather talk about my coursework which could use a bit of help.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm serious.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|too much time in-world Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll be designing some kind of UI,
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want to do the SL build interface, of course,
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I'm afraid LL might have already done it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shame about the viewer 2 silence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. Want to talk about it next week, Geneko?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Failing that I would also like to redesign imprudenceviewer.org *smirks*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL has really raised expectations by their silence. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really getting on my nerves being in the dark for so long
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|By "designing some kind of UI" do you mean a viewer, Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|THat will be too late, it's almost due by then.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, any kind of UI, including games, desktop apps, mobile apps, websites.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you have to build it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Still no expected date for Viewer2, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nah, I think a prototype should be fine.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer2 RC should come out in Feburary.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some work on the Imp wiki would be good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SLIM was announced several months before it came - and disappeared silently :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think resturcturing the wiki would be inside the interface design domain, although it's still work needs to be done...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is Feb and I've heard this many times, but still interested in case it happened this time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's okay, it's all Aimee Linden's fault!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth giggles''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You mean viewer 2009 will be out this month?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(seriously, that was her nametag...)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen, UI on web is the best example of UI work one can have, especially when you take mobile viewers on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's adjourn. Take care everyone, see you next week. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneki, did you not know that Aimee is now a Linden?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take care jacek :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No I did not know (until two hours earlier).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, not everything has to relate to metaverse.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee everyone, I'll watch the doco now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think mobile viewer is something... unlikely
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nini everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless Khronos actually got OpenGL into browsers.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cya Jacek, thx for hosting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee everyone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cheers, All
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although as I said, maybe if it's rendered in Furcadia-like pseudo-2d...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW I like the spiral seat design
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cu tuesday :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Hrmph, so much for teleporting home.)
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-01-29T01:00:39Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2010 */ January 28 - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28|January 28]] - Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-28

2010-01-29T00:59:47Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for January 28, 2010. '''Topic: Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate).''' == Summary == We discussed the low retentio...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for January 28, 2010.

'''Topic: Open Topic (Low User Retention Rate).'''

== Summary ==

We discussed the low retention rate for new Second Life users, and whether the primary cause was viewer UI complexity (as [http://www.secondeffects.com/2010/01/viewer-complexity-revealed.html this article] argues, and as LL seems to believe), or something else (e.g. users not sure what to do, movement controls, or lag).

== Links ==

* [http://www.secondeffects.com/2010/01/viewer-complexity-revealed.html Viewer Complexity Revealed]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And as you speak...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi. Sorry guys, I got distracted and lost track of time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's fine, I just ranted for 30 minutes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ditto, I just arrived Jacek, Mm called me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hah. Jacek, I see you are using an Imprudence viewer!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What was the rant about Gen?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, I see you are too, Armin ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I posted a note to the mailing list. I wonder if anyone would be interested in discussing http://www.secondeffects.com/2010/01/viewer-complexity-revealed.html
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Robin :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting article
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but i don't think UI issues are the whole story to the 99/1% figures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, do you have a group invite for me ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been using Imprudence almost 100% of time since 1.2.1 release. It's simply the most stable for 32-bit of all I've tried, and on OSgrid it's the ONLY stable one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I was talking of my incertanty of using Second Life (without interacting with someone) as the subject of my assignment of analyzing user interface by taping users doing predefined tasks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/ ©
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin, what do you mean by 99/1 %?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm dead worried though that Impru will become as flaky as all the other viewers when it moves to the 1.23 base.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm in the article it says 99% of new users to SL download, login once and never come back
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think ArminasX is mistaken about the 1% figure. I believe the figure has hovered around 10% for years, based on what LL has said
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe that's a different standard of measure, though. I think 10% is the number who make it past orientation.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think I saw a statistic that said single logins were 50%
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The problem isn't that it's a mere 10%, or 1%. The problem for LL is that the loss rate matches the gain rate. Concurrency has pretty much levelled off.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: dont be worried. Imprudence with 1.23 base will be stabe or stay on 1.22.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which makes the idea of testing the reaction what people who have never touched Second Life rather interesting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, Armin is exactly right.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin + Jacek: you're forgetting something. All the other 1.23-based projects reckon that they're "stable". Yet they're not.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And that includes LL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL does have their statistics.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If people report stability problems, we will fix them. That's all we can go by.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But they might not be correct if not everyone sends in their reports.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli skims over the article''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They should try getting statistics for people WHO NEVER LOG OFF. That tells you if something is stable or not.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the most pressing issue with 1.23 for me is atm that on opensim textures are sometimes crash the viewer when having more than 4 components when they shouldnt
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Stable as long as you log out every few hours" is not stable in my book.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|true, morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you have trouble, Morgaine, tell us, and we will try to fix it. Is that unclear?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The point of the article that I referenced is that new users are scared away by the complexity of the viewer. Do you believe that is true?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, Opensim is a tougher environment for LL-based viewers, no doubt about it. Why I recommend that it be used as a fuzz tests. If it survives there, especially in OSgrid, then it'll survive in SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm no, it was ages before i poked with building and other complex areas of the viewer, i had far bigger issues that would have driven many away before that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the observation many people have is that 1.23 is crashing a lot while SG isn't.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yea SG just deadlocks :-/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: yeah, I know you'd be interested in fixing reported bugs. But the point I'm making is that those bugs don't exist in the current Imprudence, and it's going to be a regression to add them with 1.23 and then fix them. LL screwed up with that increment.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm: I don't think the viewer complexity is the primary factor behind the low retention rate. But it's part of it, and a part LL can control. So, it may be worth the effort to improve.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suspect that it's inevitable to rebase, but what I say is still true I think. It's a pity, and it will be a regression.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth sighs.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The interesting comment on that page is M Linden January 18, 2010 8:48 AM
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alright, I'm going to put a moratorium on Imprudence talk today. Let's talk about that article.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Reading it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm... nooblets? Hey, that makes perfect tasks for my assignment!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrmm, yes, interesting comment by M
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I get the impression that Linden thinks the UI is problem #1, then orientation #2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, that's the impression I have as well. Maybe it's true; they have more data than we do.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All we have is our own gut feeling -- as people who *weren't* scared away by the interface.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the problems i've always had showing people SL are first impressions i sit and twiddle my thumbs whist the world loads and textures rez slowly, after we have burned that bridge, its so what do you do here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree that it's not the viewer UI primarily that alienates new recruits, although one issue that probably contributes is the fact that movement doesn't use the normal MMO mouse approach, ie. hold down right button to pan direction, and hold down left or middle to move forward. That's so common in MMOs that it'll annoy everyone who plays them. It annoys me :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I find "hold down left to move forward" to be kinda annoying, I'm more used to point-to-go-here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At least they provided WASD, but not many players from MMOs use WASD, you can tell by the lack of strafing movement.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So do you think the arrow keys or WASD are an obstacle?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Arrow keys only give very course movement. That's why right-mouse pan + a forward button exists, for fine-grain movement
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I always thought it strange that mouselook has different controls.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Plus MMO players typically move with one hand and perform actions with the other, concurrently. You can't do that with two hands on keyboard,they interact.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. I'm not sure MMO players are the primary demographic for SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In the FPS case, they target and fire with mouse, and move with WASD. In the main MMO case, it's reversed, you move with mouse and cast spells and stuff with the keyboard.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: 3D game players are a natural attraction to virtual worlds.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not if there's no game Morgaine. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Many people call SL a "game".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm: very true. :-) But they're still attracted, only to find that there's nothing to kill :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And even if it isn't one, how likely is it for new residents to have played games before?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Extremely likely
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, there's time they could kill. <g>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I expect most people leave because they don't understand the "game".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, using control schemes from games is adapting to already evolved design.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The worst thing in the control interface is when you do *both* MMO or FPS *and* SL on the same day. Then the right-click pie menu coming up when you try to move is infuriating.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's quite likely, Mm. "What is there to do?" is (in my opinion) one of the biggest, if not the single biggest, reason people leave.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm not actually sure what i do, other than debug code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+1. I do nothing on SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It might make sense to have a MMO-type interface as an alternate UI "skin"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Except looking at my own cute butt.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It should be marketted as a place for wasting time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I had expected 2.0 would do an alternate UI, but it sounds like a clean switch.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And in fact, the day I dropped into to Orientation island I was like "there should be a newbie quest or something... where is it?"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In theory, the interface could improve that. Reducing needless complexity makes it easier to find the meaningful things. Plus, the UI could do a much better idea of helping users find things that interest them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i waste time, but mostly in a social way, chatting to people, interacting, be that here, AWG or testing at help island
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even those of us who live here probably see it as a place with nothing to do. I guess "make money" is the only real target, other than socialize.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which is sad.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are plenty of people who see it as a place to create things. That was my shtick, at least until I got trapped working on viewers :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey, Squirrel :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's the creativity of the code gods, Jacek.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What drove you here today?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nuts :p
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin: me too, but curiously there is very little infrastructure for our kind of interest. Not even a whiteboard! No collaborative features in IM. So much is missing for group work.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are no nuts here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The code gods demand sacrifices! Sacrifices of your free time and creative energy!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i actually spend more time in EFNet #opensl taking about sl than actually being here now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh but there are nuts here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're all a little nuts, Squirrel ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh no! It's the nutty grey goo!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... nutty goo?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I find for collaborative work, i can get it done quicker and faster via IRC, pastebins and maybe some google docs, all with a faction of the bandwidth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm puzzled by the statement "staggering complexity of the viewer" in that article. Where? (Excluding Advanced of course)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. Imagine how different the orientation process would feel if the viewer asked you "Hi, which of these things look interesting to you?" and then suggested some first steps into those areas of interest?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not the viewer that's complex, it's the world.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So what's da topic?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its a little disorganised in places, but you can muddle your way through the UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Normally the meeting should be already over.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was my take too Morgaine.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But it's fine, because UXiG never neatly ends at the one hour mark.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel: We're talking about the complexity of the viewer, and whether it's the thing that drives away most new users, as this article suggests: http://www.secondeffects.com/2010/01/viewer-complexity-revealed.html
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(And as LL seems to believe)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I'm wondering if hiding more of the function down in lower levels of the UI will make it more usable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think customization would be the real solution.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, the solution is to reduce this all to a single button and label it "Win the game"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think customization won't be an be-all-end-all solution.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You'll need a sane default, customization or not.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG's discussed that many times. :-) My solution is presets, dead simple idea that satisfies everyone. The default preset can be the Newbie one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can never with The Game. You can only lose it. And I just did. Thanks, Squirrel. >_<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm betting that with all this viewer 2.0 change its hardly going to touch the stats, what ever they may really be, that LL are worried about
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lets just say that a new UI interface will not do. The "first experiences" need to be redone. They need to be shining examples of what is possible
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there might be a sudden interest peak due to the magic 2.0 number but thats about it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree with that assessment, Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and i agree with what squirrel just said, thats the real issue here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was thinking that linking some Torley videos in context might help with usability
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I learned the UI from his videos.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As for the menu complexity.. most people use only a few features and that's it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|An alternative to presets might be UI plugins, not of the plugin-api media type, but simple UI extensions. But presets is easier for the mind to grasp.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't know why LL can't do a texture pack with the viewer and build the orientation areas with those textures so you are not staring at a grey goo for 10 minutes as the world lags in around you, you notice the pile of other noobs sayign WTF is going on here, then you quit for good thinking that was pointless
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They once did that I believe.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin: in my local community of techs / gamers / friends, the "SL is too laggy" is reason #1 why there are only two of us left here in SL, despite all of them having tried it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|None of my bunch finds the UI a problem (of course)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just the lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They're used to lag-free games after all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if LL would remove all the useless assets that have not been rezzed gridwide in the past six months...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There' still lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the db would shrink to a more manageable size and lag would improve
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the db is not really effecting typical lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because as it is they run mysql servers way past the workload they are designed for
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sims have caches of all the data they need and that is transmitted to the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even walking you'll need to wait 100ms + frames.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|only newly rezed assets need to contact the asset server
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Main cause of sim lag is LL's "sim must proxy everything" model.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think most "lag" is actually on the client side. SL is just too much for a laptop with an Intel graphics chip.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is the fundimental issue with a lag dicussion, what is lag?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When the sim must proxy everything, there's no parallism in the transfers at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The feeling of slowness.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's really the low frame rate that gets seen as lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL features user created content. Not only does much of it look crappy, it is also very not optimized
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which could be from the rendering to the backend databases.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it can't be optimized if we have to build everything out of prims.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And worse the prims themselves aren't optimized!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it can be optimized often by simply thinking before building.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin: data transfer lag and rendering FPS lag are coupled owing to the networking being done in the rendering loop, so can't disentangle them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And they gave you sculpties to work with ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you have debug menu out, you'll be able to see how this spiral thing you're setting on is tesslaized.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, you'd be surprised by the strickt polycounts game designers have to follow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|strickt polycount limits
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it really necessary to use three strips on every face? Even the side ones? These tris can be repurposed to make the spirals more smooth.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the biggest lag i see is textures, the world is often mostly a grey goo, 2nd to that is the rate at which objects appear as i am walking, then 3rd is the sim crossings themselves
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like, no more than x polygons of geometry visible on screen at any given time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The two best things they could have done with Viewer2.0 would have been #1) Fix cache + allow it to be big (that reduces transfer lag), and #2) Decouple the networking from the rendering loop (that helps both kinds of lag, as they're interpedendent.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no more than y different textures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, sculpties. Does even that a small piece needs to be described with so many tris?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when you tp into a sim you download literally hundreds of textures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thousands.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hundreds!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|two thousand.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Many
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Usually.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and that is a killer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|number one memory hog, yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would really like to see each prim face come with a color that is the average of its texture so there would be color as well as shapes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Robin: texture lag won't improve until they eliminate the "sim must proxy everything" model. And they have no interest in doing that until VWRAP provides alternatives.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|geometry data is nothing compared to textures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http textures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless you're in Luskwood... (48MB of geometry data)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel: indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh don't also forget that the local texture cache is undecoded so if you turn your back the textures get removed from GL memory then need to be redecoded from local cache
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|local cache splits the textures into header and body parts.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|compared to decode that is trivial
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the client needs to find the appropriate header for each texture, then load, decode, display it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mind you, that is unneccessary overhead
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But notice that going to HTTP for textures won't reduce lag (like it did with map tiles), but will INCREASE it, because there's more overhead. The reason why maps are faster is because tiles come via a parallel path from Amazon, without "the sim must proxy everything".
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, me being not in the states gets an extra 100 to 120ms of lag for the overseas connection
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP could significantly decrease lag, if they use caching properly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|things are even slower here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/lag/texture loading time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my client barely uses 60% of the bandwidth
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because of high ping times
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe the client sees you have 10% packet loss and thinks you've set the bandwidth value too high...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Packets Lost: 1/70243 (0.0%) ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's not it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My lag meter always shows the client to be the culprit. What does yours say Squirrel?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Caches can help, but only for assets, not for any object that changes. It's academic though, since LL runs no caches, we talk direct to the sim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't use the lie meter
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SVC-3146 still does not help with texture download speeds either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's useful... for newbies who won't use it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fast timers are best for indetifying your lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because it always blames things that don't run on my system ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ctrl-Shift-9
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know the causes are often wrong, but what does it say is the problem, client, server, or network?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|neither is a problem
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all green?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway i'm heading to bed, i think our conclusions are the UI is a minor issue, inital user experience is the biggie and lag then what on earth to do here are the big issues for that experience
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all green most of the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: When they switch to HTTP for textures, LL won't have to run caches (although it would help, especially if thye set up regional caches in europe and asia). HTTP has its own caching mechanism which can work quite well. Object updates are not a significant source of bandwidth use, compared to textures.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|G'night Robin.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Robin Cornelius:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snowglobe fully supports caches now so when http texture happens squids will just work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ni ni Robin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP caching doesn't magically happen, you'll still need to set up caches.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But they might make more sense than the current scheme...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|except!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Appearantly to get a texture, you need to request a cap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which kinda defeats the cache which operates RESTfully.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(i.e. keeps no state)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope I'm mistaken.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: it's still just one sim. Whether it's got a cache running or not makes no difference, there's still only a given amount it can shove out, whether the CPU is at any given time writing to network in the sim code or writing to network in cache code.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP won't help with that unless there's a transparent cache in front of the sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, instead of having the sim to cache the images, one could just have squid caches directly connect to the asset servers.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not talking about the sim's private cache, I'm talking about HTTP caching. Squid proxies and such.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And all asset access won't go through the sim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: yes, except that that conflicts with LL's "sim must proxy everything" design.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: That's exactly the point.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, a company using SL behind a network could have their own cache on the local network, so they only need to download each texture once (in theory), no matter how many of their employees need to access it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I heard they are still doing that kind of design with HTTP assets.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: there is no such caching at LL, we talk directly to each sim. The only possible HTTP caching is ear your ISP end, if it runs transparent proxy cache, or if you've set up an explicit proxy manually.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/ear/at/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: It would make sense, then, if the viewers could be modified so that they talk to the asset servers directly?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL *could" hook caches into the loop of course, but they don't currently.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gen: definitely. And that's what VWRAP is putting in the spec. No guarantee that LL will use it of course. They like their "sim will proxy everything" model.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have to go, but before I left I wanted to ask Jacek whether we could invite developers and users of 3rd party viewers to talk about their UI features.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, nice idea. If they accept :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Certainly, Mm. That would be a nice way to mix things up around here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Oh don't they. Even with HTTP. They just don't understand this HTTP thing, I guess...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah well. I need to work on my assignment.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, I'll see what can be arranged on the mailing list.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They understand it fine, they're well clued up techies. But they have a few blind spots, like the the sim proxying thing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova waves at Armin''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I said, LL (or someone else) could set up regional proxies in Europe and Asia. Or home users could set up their own HTTP caches at home, which would help significantly if they access SL from multiple computers.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Mm :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bye Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so weare finished?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I think.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think so, yes. Unless you want to sit around and argue about whether HTTP caching and squid proxies could help reduce texture load time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looking a bit bare, unless someone hasa new topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless you guys would want to help me on my assignment...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but don't bother. I
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm helpless.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, i want, but i'm to tired
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Good luck
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All right. Good night.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I didn't even understand it :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sleep well, Armin!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it's simple.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Armin :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nini :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you next tuesday
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You find some users, tell them to do some tasks some kind of program while thinking aloud, and you tape them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byes and
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And hope they see what's broken in the UI. That's my assignment 1.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You record what's in their minds? :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nini
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Err, not really...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's just interface testing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care, all
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-01-22T03:37:47Z

Jacek Antonelli: January 21 - Integration with External Services

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21|January 21]] - Integration with External Services
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-21

2010-01-22T03:37:04Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for January 21, 2010. '''Topic: Integration with External Services.''' == Summary == We discussed possibilities for ...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for January 21, 2010.

'''Topic: Integration with External Services.'''

== Summary ==

We discussed possibilities for integrating external services like Twitter and Flickr into the viewer UI.

== Links ==

* [http://www.flickr.com/account/uploadbyemail/ Upload to Flickr via email]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Today we're talking about integrating the viewer with external services like Flicker and Twitter.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| colspan="2"|''Azwaldo Villota usually thinks we've already started whenever Jacek says "Let's get started"''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*Flickr. Silly lack of an e.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, things like being able to send your snapshots directly to Flickr, or tweet from the viewer UI.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in this context a better viewer would include YouTube etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What would the integration with YouTube be, Charlette? Recording videos, or watching them?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|watching and uploading, searching, group sharing of content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I really think the group IM shuld allow for media content sharing - as described on the Imprudence forum
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, interesting concept.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What other services would be cool to integrate with the viewer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in my own personal use, integration with flickr and plurk would be highly beneficial, as my avatar has a presence in both areas. Youtube uploading has definitely helped spread knowledge of spore around...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's a bit too much for IMs and should be sim local.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|group IMs are often used like a meeting/conference presentation venue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's kinda silly, people who can't even virtually come together... or maybe there's just too many?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(of them)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can send snapshots to Flickr using "Send via email", so a new Flickr implementation would look like...what?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I disagree Gen, having it comms not sim based would allow for greater number of participants without fixing the sim load problem
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can we? I thought that was just snapzilla
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Would not want to replace "Send via email" in Snapshot tool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|re Flikr; the snapshot floater has been waiting for a resizable fix a long time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about a "send to flickr" option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(D'oh, Send via email crashes the Imprudence test build for me, heh.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aw, wb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can someone send me the past few minutes of chat in a notecard please?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but first the snapshot floater needs to be made more comprehensive eg include crop and bigger preview
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about a "Send to ___" option, to be entered by user (might want Koinup, might want Snapzilla, Flickr, etc.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...and viewer stores my choice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes Azwaldo, simply a HTTP (URL) destination
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure how sending to Flickr via email works. Do you have to remember a special email address to send it to?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do users need to authenticate first?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yup, no.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You're given a e-mail address like fennec29raccoon@flickr.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*photos.flickr.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. Well at the very least, it seems like the viewer should be able to remember that for you, if you want, so that you don't have to type it in repea'tedly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some kind of address book then?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe: see http://www.flickr.com/account/uploadbyemail/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But integration could also include things like naming, tagging, and organizing into sets. I'm not sure if you can do that via email
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think you'd want to do those inside SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah I see, nice!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on a similar note - the viewer has just one path on HD (last path used) and seems to store snapshots and upload from the same path - this needs to be a per task list I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think you'd just want SL to give you the connectivity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm, Looks like you can set tags via email, at least.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But, there may be other services that don't have email functionality.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes Jacek, with any uploads the tags are best done at the time of upload since people rarely come back to fix anything
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't used Koinup or the others before, not sure how they work.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe they have different APIs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The best way is probably to have plugins for each of those API...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True. Let's not go too deep into the technical/implementation side of things, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For the sake of the discussion, let's assume that there is some way that the viewer could post things to these services.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So for photos, there might be options on the snapshot floater to send to a specific service, and it could remember your special email address or login details. How about other services?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Say, Twitter. How would that fit into the UI?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the simple way for now is to think of it as an additional XML file with various needs (attributes for a given URL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|integration into the chatbar?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Or Plurk, for those who prefer it)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why would you want to integrate Twitter?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Or Identi.ca, or whatever)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So you could post status updates without leaving the viewer, Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like, "I'm at this cool art gallery in SL"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people use huds for that right now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe that would store the HD locations per task e.g. snapshot, texture upload, sound or animations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know there are scripted HUDs for that now, so there's obviously a demand.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like a paths XML
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: We're not going into implementation details now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why not just use the •••• browser?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Then you have to keep the browser open to Twitter all the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, just thinking of a way to fix a few path related problems
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Part of the appeal of Twitter is that you can easily post to it in many ways. Text message, on the web, via various client programs...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Easy access is important
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But if you integrate it, then you clutter up the UI more.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|going back to what I raised before - the snpshot floater should be expandable and provide crop e.g. make portrait or square pics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not necessarily, Mm. I'm sure there must be ways to integrate it without cluttering up the UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At the very least, there could be a chat bar "command", like "/twitter I'm at this cool gallery"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That sounds reasonable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That sounds like turning the chat bar into an Awesomebar.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the snapshot floater is a better place - Emerald users type crap console commands all too often
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Type twitter messages into the snapshot floater, Charlette?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also console is so noob unfriendly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which console?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean expand the floater to include the destinations and tagging etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|command-line style interaction, not any particular console.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the chat console Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"But if you integrate it, then you clutter up the UI more." - - can "floaters' be made available in preferences panel, so I could choose which ones clutter up my UI?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm I though chat was one of the easy ones
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure, Azwaldo. That's possible, and an interesting approach
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sry I shouldn't use my homebrew language, but I think of the chat box as console as far as UI goes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(What happened to my new user orientation HUD, the one that opened automatically for my alt last year?)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Was glad I took that alt through orientation, it had changed significantly!)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It already has 9 pages....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Help > Tutorial
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in case previous statements weren't clear; the snapshot floater could have the less/more appended to include tagging and destination related options
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tutorial: nice!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|save, save as, upload and in more it would expand to include a text entry field
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|While we're talking about Twitter, how about the reverse direction -- receiving status updates from other people?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like access to that tutorial HUD, make some custom content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Morgaine, welcome
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jacek, hi all :-) Really bad overrun at Merov's
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A "what's new in Imprudence" would be nice, although I don't think there should be a new one for new resis.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahoy morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're talking about integration with external services. At the moment, Twitter.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Yeah right)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: I don't think anyone has suggested a new one for new resis?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, I think your butterfly likes me. :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry, zapping it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|geneko: the windows imprudence installer now takes you to a "new features in imprudence" page; that work for you?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it may work better if it's done in the viewer itself and as a walkthrough...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, getting back to Twitter -- is receiving status updates from other people something useful for integration in the viewer? And how might that look? Would they appear in chat, or a separate floater?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe route them through the notificaiton system.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well if you put them in Communicate, they could have their own tab.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This subject probably ties in with interop with other worlds through group IM / Jabber / IRC too, which interests me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: Blue popups, like the online/offline notifications?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|consider my approach for a second; use IM box for real time coms and collaborative tasks e.g. facebook comments on pics you uploaded and the snapshot for uploads to webpages
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like that. But a bit mre.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Somethink like those LL mockups?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with regard to receiving, I'd like mine to appear in chat (as in: JonnnyQ responded to your twitter: blah blah blah <link to respond>), but I don't make many status updates or receive many comments on the one I do
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Would you want only replies to your updates, or also normal posts from other people?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are two classes of UI functions here, real time and upload/tag media
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm thinking of all subscribed people, this is why they go through notification system.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. I wonder if that might be too spammy for people who are following a lot of people. I guess it would need to be fairly configurable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a mute Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe options for receiving no updates, only replies to you, only certain people, or everyone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to move on to Jabber next. Any final thought about Twitter/etc.?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fairly configurable: nodding
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted thinks there needs to be an easy way to respond once you receive an update too''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but first I would address inworld group spam e.g. IM and notice options if the mute was to be expanded
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Could we take a step back and ask what the actual goal is *in practice*? Is it to turn the viewer app into a common browser for all comms, or what?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"easy way to respond" sounds like floater feature
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kind of Moragine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the UI should accommodate comm tasks for inworld and other web services in a similar manner
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The idea is to make it easier to use services from within SL, for services where people would want to use them from within SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a bit of a wierd goal, if that is the goal, seeing as the viewer widget sets and performance is so appalling compared to native widgets.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially if we are thinking of the inernet being used via the viewer in the future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, we mentioned earlier that there are already scripted HUDs for communicating with Twitter/Plurk/etc. from within SL. So obviously there's some demand in having integration with those services.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually azwaldo's collaborative HUD dispaly is kind of relevant here too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ugh, deadlock.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Likewise for Flickr -- being able to post snapshots directly to Flickr would be useful, and I'm sure there is interest in that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wb geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: "from within SL" is a different kettle of fish, if you mean from in-world. But the viewer app is not "in-world". Integration into the viewer window doesn't bring anything in-world, it's not in-world integration.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let me rephrase: from within the viewer, so you don't have to switch to a separate application to use the service.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the viewer Morg can be though of as an all purpose web browser
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But that's the issue, the viewer is a dreadful vehicle for anything 2D.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|basically bring browser services to the Second Life™ interface
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't see integration as ever being thought of as a replacement for the service; more, a minimal tool of convenience
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's kinda what we're discussing morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even if the viewer UI is ugly, being able to tweet from it is better than having to exit fullscreen, switch to another application, tweet, then switch back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|An alternative would be to just invoke a browser from the viewer whenever you want it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: I think I followed what you suggested about the HUD display, was thinking about that too; would like to hear more of your idea...maybe offline
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or for Flickr, posting directly from the viewer is better than taking a snapshot, saving to disk, switching to a web browser, then uploading to Flickr from the browser, then switching back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you mean like besides view > webbrowser, say, view > update twitter that takes you right to the twitter page?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm: That's certainly a valid approach
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shame not everyone here is familiar with your HUD Azwaldo, but in my view it crosses a lot of what we are looking at here now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At least for some of the services
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It does make sense to integrate photo uploads
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think small powerful hooks are always useful, like the click-on-link and it launches a browser. But actually adding new clients into the viewer is a step too far --- it'll never be good, it'll lways be slower by a factor of hundreds than native widgets, and it bloats the viewer and adds bugs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: yes, and even the task of entering SnapZilla's email addy is enough work to make me think twice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(post direct from viewer)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's talk about another type of service for a while -- chat services, like Jabber, Gtalk, AIM, MSN, ICQ, whatever.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also IRC
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*Chat/IM services
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chat would naturally make new IM boxes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Again here, "small powerful hooks" would be great, but reinventing Pidgin or an IRC client in the viewer is ... questionable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and need some way to 'subscribe'/'open' the outworld ones
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette has mentioned a project that is very new for me; I have written about it here: http://bit.ly/4ovjaV (SLURL posted below the big, fat diagram)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once again - this should be similar to opening the group/private IMs and have more option as to what shows up and when
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all are welcome, demo takes ~5 min; bring a friend!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One "small powerful hook" would be to maintain a per-group table of chat services, so that for example when in AW Groupies, a button could spawn pidgin on awg@conferences.jabber.org (or whatever is configured). But a whole Jabber client ... noooo.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can do better: here is the SLURL http://slurl.com/secondlife/Gyatso/33/9/351
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if the built-in viewer was more up to date most tasks could be handled tere I suppose Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's the point to of the media API
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still, I think the IM box and snapshot floater may need the comms options and upload stuff
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes Mm, but UI needs the hooks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mm's point is important. It's tailor made for spawning new apps that hook in, without bloating the viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Media Plugin API generally does not facilitate UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well it could :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're talking wishes here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Still early days, admittedly. But each time the subject comes up, both Merov and Q seem quite certain that general UI use is the future for Plugin-API.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is it correct to say the the new Media Plugin functionality does NOT include true HTML on a prim? (stream web page onto prim, touch to interact with website content)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if the changes are smart, the UI will benefit not bloat e.g. snapshot as is is practicall useless and the group IMs need options for Notice and Chat instead of just one tickbox
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's just an API, not an application
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye, the application lives in the plugin process.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no Azwaldo, but that functionality appears to be precisely where it would go
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i never logged in to Qwaq, but was told there was true HTML on < an object > there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|live HTML on prims (inworld or on a HUD) is one side, comms through IM box for chat functions and Snapshot floater for simple uploads to URLs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee still remains to make clear what her status is with Plugin-API. She was a leading light on the VNC use of it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she'll be moving that ahead faster now that she's a Linden. Being at LL also puts a ball and chain on you.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a snapshot floater with bigger/resizable preview, crop and more path options plus tagging
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, Charlette.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| colspan="2"|''Azwaldo Villota makes note to read manual for Emerald's IRC tab in Chat Console''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|* Contacts in Communicate "floater"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree morgaine and Aimee's demos hardly seemed focused on tasks in my view - more like - this wacky thing is possible, look at me do this, but hardly anything on why would I do that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no intention to criticize here - just plain critique; I'm used to demonstration of new features on the basis of task not tech possibilities
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's wrap up for this week. Any final remarks about integration with external services?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If the media API doesn't already allow for generating floater to interact with, it would be quite simple to do that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would free teh viewer from bloat.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just an implementation detail :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|integration with external apps seems the way of the web, suspect it would add value
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am heading back to the project space mentioned by Charlette, all are welcome. (And, this is an experiment so far...not a product I am promoting)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my conclusion is; comms through IM box for outworld chat functions, the Snapshot floater for uploads to URLs, tagging etc and live HTML on prims (inworld or on a HUD) for services that we haven't anticipated eg Gmail or facebook
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you, Jacek, for making this event happen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for coming, Azwaldo :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Az is this the demo I saw the other day (4 green pads)?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cheers, All
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take care azwaldo :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, yes; here is the SLURL http://slurl.com/secondlife/Gyatso/33/9/351
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think I will come check it out, Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice chatting with y'all. bye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|worth a look Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, that's all for this week. Thanks for coming, everyone! Take care, and see you next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|he has HUD based display, but I would like to see HTTP outworld data on the HUD too
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2010-01-15T00:13:23Z

Jacek Antonelli: January 7 and January 14.

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2010 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14|January 14]] - No discussion
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07|January 7]] - Field trip to OSGrid

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-14

2010-01-15T00:11:07Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for January 14, 2010. '''Topic: No Discussion.''' == Summary == We had no discussion this week, due to poor attenden...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for January 14, 2010.

'''Topic: No Discussion.'''

== Summary ==

We had no discussion this week, due to poor attendence because the Open Source/Snowglobe meeting ran over time. Geneko entertained us with his new seating arrangement.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kind of quiet over here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Mm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The open source meeting is still going
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I noticed from the minimap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any idea how long they'll run?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wonder why there's no people...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Open source meeting is still going strong, it seems
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looks like an off day.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess we try next week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything you guys want to talk about?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whew, more time to develop the seats...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not really.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dunno? Something about force feedback?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Did you get a chance to look at the scripted HUD code Jacek?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not yet, been feeling under the weather
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry to hear that. I hope you get better.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess we should just call it quits for now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm going to hang out until the end of the hour, but you can go if you like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably won't be much of a discussion anyway
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How do you think of the thing you're setting on?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's neat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But is it usable?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it would be interesting to have it move.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Truth is. this thing can get quite wrong...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seems to work okay.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No moving, please. >_<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All right!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd throw up by the end of the meeting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about slower?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No moving at all, please
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry, forgot about your being sidk.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*sick*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Mm Alder:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, see you next week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry I was late
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|looks like I missed everyone, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like the new seats though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, open source meeting is still going, there hasn't been anyone else here except Mm, who left a few minutes ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh wow...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|must be a crazy topic, heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably getting ready to release SG 1.3 or something.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prolly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so any new imp news/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nothign you're working on?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and did you seethe latest episode of conan?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope, not yet. Should I?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was a good episode, and some fanny rags on nbc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|he released a statement saying he wasn't moving the tonight show to 12:05 under his watch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|funny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not fanny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think I'll go drop in on the open source meeting and see what's up, then head out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care, all
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07

2010-01-08T03:27:21Z

Jacek Antonelli: Added link to the field trip announcement

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for January 07, 2010.

'''Topic: Field trip to OSGrid.'''

== Summary ==

Our first meeting of the new year. We had a field trip to OSGrid! We met in the Bade Plaza sim to discuss OpenSim and cross-grid usability issues, although we did not stay on topic very much.

== Links ==

* [https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sl-ux/2010-January/000354.html Field trip announcement]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Azwaldo :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is interesting....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ha!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ha?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|clutziness is an Interoperable property, i guess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(can't seem to sit)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What can I say?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Next time, choose a place that allows rezzing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I even brought my new chair!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Many months since spending significant time in OpenSim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was in ReactionGrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Doesn't look like much people... probably had a hard time finding here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey there!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my clothing is disappeared :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now its back :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yus.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All working seats are taken.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|These ones seem to work better over here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All working seats in this ring anyway...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now figure group invite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli tries to send invites for the Imprudence Viewer group''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i also made a imprudence group, which i now left
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it should be avail again now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Group search doesn't work here, I guess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I guess we won't have much more people coming.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Of course I was wrong... ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hair didn't rez
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sit doesn't work hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So everyone's hair are missing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe, haven't found any good hair yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the asset server was restarted 2 days ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe they wiped something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and no leopard avatar :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*mews*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|weird but we can chat for what it looks like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shall we make a group here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, how much trouble did you guys have logging in?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no trouble
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not at all - but I had some difficulties finding my way to the 6th floor, like last time I was in Bade.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The teleporter is a bit strange, but oh well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no trouble logging in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Of course, no trouble != good user experience... I had to erase "Geneko" "Nemeth" from the inputs and type in "Kakurady" "Drakenar")
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|using Imprudence and it logs fine every time, except for lag in inventory operations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, none of the viewers have account management features that I'm happy with, including Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my sit looks like I'm retarded - the only problem remainig for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Try the other chair, Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snow-129 looks like worth having a closer look
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah and search shaows LL locations like I said in the imp.org forum
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, I guess it has the same anim. Oh well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiro must -really- like this anim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can see my hair now, I changed it and it worked (on my viewer)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The content selection is a bit more limited on OSGrid. And... not quite the same quality.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|animations seem hardest to come by - no AOs to be found
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But anyway. Let's start up the discussion.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I gave some thought to the login screen a while back, but find it kinda hard to come up with something not so cluttery. In a multi-grid environment it should gather 4 pieces of info: grid, login, pass, location.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can anyone search and get OSG locations?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|using Hippo client, have read/heard that inter-grid TP is possible with...Meerkat?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To make signing as the last avatar easy while changing things possible.... sigh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, Meerkat can do inter-grid TP. Essentially log off from grid A and log in to grid B
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I never got Meerkat to do it myself and Grid manager was very faky so I use IMP
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe Jacek - manual TP management
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as long as you don't use the pie menu on yourself :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so how about search in Imprudence - I'm getting LL content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doesn't TP when you select LMs it finds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, search is wrong in Imp.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|understand that but why LL content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hah, thanks Jacek. I could see you all on the mini-map, but no amount of camera navigation could find you :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK so this is known
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<--- Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same here Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha where is Money Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a Morg here too, if I could remember the password.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Someone thought teleporters could replicate stairs completely, but they didn't realize to add a floor number.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|where did you get the vamp hair Penny?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some freebie store. Lemme see if there's an LM in folder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope. But it's almost certainly RetroDan
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wonder if it's copybotted.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would be great, looks to be of OK quality and maybe I could find something too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have to learn some content creation, and make clothes and skins for Opensim. Without that, this place will be bleak. Everyone should help a little really.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah I bet it may be Kaku
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even non-content people like me. Won't be pretty, but will be something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The creation time is somewhere around 1969... ...that's weird.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I made my av except for shoes and hair
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uh... so is my head.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice one the begining of UNIX time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chairs too. OpenSim probably just never records ctime...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Welcome back Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Az!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I made my AV as well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, and Happy New Year to everyone :-)))
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good work Kaku
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, happy new year!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the TP, Jacek. my avatar seems too short to make it up the steps of the TP pod at landing point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|inventory operations seem rather borked here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Likewise, Azwaldo. The physics engine is a bit different here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: Thanks, but I think I could still use a lot of improvement.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which operations, Charlette?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I gave up trying to get any viewer on my Windows gaming box to get to OSgrid. It should be identical to the flags used on the Linux viewer, but Windows hates me, and 3 viewers failed. So I replace my SL login with the Windows box, and am here on Imprudence on Linux, which works brilliantly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Woops, lost her
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence works fine for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It failed to start at all on Windows Vista for me. Something about "bad side-by-side configuration" .... meaningless to me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cryptic error messages... typical.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I'm not surprised. Windows is nothing but pain for me, always has been.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I only use Windows for playing Guild Wars, nothing else. I treat it as a games console, and it works like that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Charlette Proto shouts: TP please''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar likes Windows but is currently running Ubuntu, up 2 days, 17:53''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Welcome back, Charlette :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Penny Lane makes a LM here''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Az
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli created a landmark at La Plaza Bade - Landing Zone (OS, Bade Plaza (137, 136, 162)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought all the chairs here are ... working somewhat?!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How did that happen lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I meant wearing and detaching - that sort of thing Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the chair lost its sit target because it still thinks Charlette is sitting there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Easily griefed chairs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sigh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, let's talk about some of the user experience issues with OpenSim and cross-grid stuff.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I liked your "field trip" announcement, Jacek. We could arrange field trips to lots of other grids too :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We've already mentioned the need for viewers to connect to the correct services, like search, currency buying, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably the best if we can get some actual users of OpenSim...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And within OSgrid, to many different places of course
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe next time in a better place.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes! Jacek, make another UXIG group here, it should be under your name to match in SL or I'd do it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There has been talks on SLDev about how to make Snowglobe's maps work in OSGrid too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I spent some time in ReactionGrid, many months ago. Helped with orientation for a couple of classes of Boston High School students. No scripts were needed, they were assigned the building of various body parts. They had not been in SL, so it was all new, all good.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ReactionGrid is the pure Microsoft one, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| colspan="2"|''Charlette Proto shouts: OMG!!!''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since then, I have made occasional visits to test scripts, see how far along the OS development is coming along
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| colspan="2"|''Simulator Version shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev) 9c4e6f0 2009-12-31 06:41:10 +0000 (Unix/Mono)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having trouble, Charlette?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry Imp crashed when I took a snapshot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| colspan="2"|''Penny Lane tries snapshot''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is rather long for a group title... ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll leave my vanity till later
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Microsoft, yes; "pure" I do not know...the grid's founders are all about Microsoft, i think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Same group title as in SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo: How so?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't see your voice dots, just my own
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Shapshot worked for me. Really, I'm finding Imprudence on Linux to be the most stable viewer of all time, anywhere, on any grid. /me loves stability!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think people woul dbother setting up vivox accounts here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha same here stability=1 FPS=2 extra features=?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar makes note to self to check if Imp runs into deadlocks under linux like Snowglobe does''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The newest Imprudence is fast too though, the days of it being 2nd to Snowglobe are gone. And Snowglobe never stays up for more than a few minutes here for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mine uses Open Source: libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3
??? J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG: 1.3.0, Runtime: 1.3.0
??? Audio Driver Version: OpenAL, version 1.1 ALSOFT 1.6.372 / OpenAL Community / OpenAL Soft: DirectSound Software
??? GStreamer Version: 0.10.20.1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is a cyclic slowdown with any viewer... not sure where that is from....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very important to poke the two KDU files into Imprudence on Linux though, owing to the memory leak with OpenJPEG.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree about speed Penny, and the diff isn't great either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah maybe insisting on working with OS dlls in Imp makes me slower too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny, where do I get the kdu files for 64bit?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The Love and Peace group whose tag I'm wearing seems to be about dancing btw, so if you want some socializing here, join them :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: saw your question...looking fer somethin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar wonders if the libs are built with optimization''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah can i join the UXIG group here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, I clicked too quickly and didn't read --- what group was that invite for?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, Imprudence Viewer --- cool!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tnx :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are groups limited to 25 here too, or is it just the Imp UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I notice there's nobody listed in the UXIG listener group, which probably explains why IM is down. That might be a Bade Plaza problem --- group chat works in Wright Plaza.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this sim is much worse than ones I've seen before
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can try talking in group after the meeting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sim FPS 57 but feels like crap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I prefer IRC.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: the admin site for a ReactionGrid landowner is a sitefinity interface , ASP.NET
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I prefer Jabber
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|IRC is full of kiddies and griefers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't prefer Jabber, mostly because I don't have anyone to talk to on Jabber.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jabber is good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|irc - dunno - last time i used irc is over 10 ys ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather12
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PNs use IRC
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do microblog through Jabber though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://identi.ca/kakurady
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One thing we can do with Opensim groups that LL won't do is give group a comms server field, which the group owner can set up. It should have fields for native, IRC, and Jabber servers + rooms/channels.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ie. owner of grou determines which system is used for group chat.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|group*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have you noticed how much massively faster vicinity chat is here compared to SL? It's always instantly back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not instantly for you?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How SL can make text chat slow is beyond me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kaku: it's often lagged
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL chat works fine for me most of the time. Although Hippotropolis is very laggy in general, I've found.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|M Linden has to read it all and he isn't a fast reader
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see lindens read it first
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i must away
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see y'all next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee az
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh! Imprudence t-shirt! I'd like one!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Az!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| colspan="2"|''Penny Lane accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the wear/detach is still borked for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyone else want one?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or an invite to the Imprudence Viewer group?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No thanks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I never got the group invite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe ... i got 3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah lucky Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I got 2 now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG the group title
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Drat, it won't let me use a ❤ in a group title.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Add a few roles for different tags, please, Jacek ... might as well please everyone :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or make an officer for such menial admin :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|group chat is very laggy, but the local works OK
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks jacek, that tag is much better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax relogs in a minute ... fresh client just ended compiling''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like the long tag, makes the point that we're not restricted by LL limits here :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it lack of Unicode, the problem with spekial symbols?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha imagine tag griefers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|half the screen would be covered with glyphs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They probably sanity checked it so that only ASCII is allowed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually SL is known for fail logging people with international characters in group titles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freedom doesn't come free. Yes, griefing wll be a cost of that freedom, but I prefer being griefed to living in a nice safe prison.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny: Chinese people will tell you otherwise.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Stability is important.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about being cloned as a form of griefing Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just like freedom of expression means that you hear crap you would rather not. But we can choose to ignore it, and improve clients to ignore it better and automatically.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|happens to me quite a bit and I haven't experienced anything quite so disturbing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: I know you have a thing about being cloned, but you're out of step with the technology. Cloning is part of the natural order of things in a world that works by sending all assets to everyone. Your life will be a misery until you come to terms with that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah like someone take your identity and all the hard work, maybe that is freedom too - free from the sense of attachment and motivation to start again HAHA
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Clone me any time. Hey, you may even improve on me :-))
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so unique identity is meaningless to you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They can't steal your identity
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well I identify with being recognised just like in RL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Taking your hard work" implies that you don't understand that digital data is inherently copiable. How you look is not your identity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It will be a source of misery if you t
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heard it too many times Penny - all bull, the components of my appearance don't need to be seen by anyone but those who see me naked
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It will be a source of misery if you truly feel hard done by when people use the assets that you accept being sent to the world.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|total crap, just sloppy code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope, it's the way the platform is designed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah sloppy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it is baked into one, but the sloppy code allows source layers to be copied - super lame
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For everyone to see you, your assets are sent to everyone for them to render. No, it's not sloppy coding --- it's THE DESIGN.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|read above
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|By all means change the design. Opensim code is open. But good luck changing the design of SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax reads above:it's THE DESIGN.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but its the design of how computers work ... copy the content from a to b
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats not SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats turing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whether individual layers are sent or bakes are sent, it will make no difference on cloning --- anyone who wants to will still be able to clone you, because the appearance is still sent to them. You need to calm down and accept it. (Or change the code, in Opensim)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|total crap Armin - there is no need to expose individual layers on the av since the 3 parts are baked into a composite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally I prefer to relax, and say "Clone away!" :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is no need to expose the layers, and they are changing the design so that it won't anymore.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: that doesn't help Charlette --- she'll still be cloned
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the old design was that the layers are exposed. The code just implements part of that design.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although I won't say that the code isn't sloppy. Judging by the rest of the code, it probably *is* sloppy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all this data comunism is phoney, look at Chinese once they thought copyright was crap now they make money from DVD and CD replication for major publishers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's built into the core concept of the platform (and this includes the new VWRAP stuff too) --- assets are sent to clients for local rendering. That means they can be cloned, even if they're just baked composites, and so user appearance can be cloned too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette ... then Alan Turing designed crap ... I can live with that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: McCarthy is rather old hat you know, you're several decades out of step with the "communism" crap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess data bits must be "communist", because everyone can make copies. /sigh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alright, I'm going to stop the discussion here, because we're over time, off topic, and heated
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: it's heated, but it's in a good cause, or else Charlette will be miserable all her life.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll be back at our usual spot next week, although we might have more field trips to OSGrid in the future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay, that's great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can carry on with the discussion, but I'm gonna go get some dinner. Take care all, see you next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for organizing Jacek, tc :-)
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2010-01-07

2010-01-08T03:25:37Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript, brief summary

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for January 07, 2010.

'''Topic: Field trip to OSGrid.'''

== Summary ==

Our first meeting of the new year. We had a field trip to OSGrid! We met in the Bade Plaza sim to discuss OpenSim and cross-grid usability issues, although we did not stay on topic very much.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Azwaldo :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is interesting....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ha!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ha?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|clutziness is an Interoperable property, i guess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [14:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(can't seem to sit)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What can I say?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Next time, choose a place that allows rezzing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I even brought my new chair!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Many months since spending significant time in OpenSim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was in ReactionGrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Doesn't look like much people... probably had a hard time finding here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey there!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my clothing is disappeared :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now its back :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yus.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All working seats are taken.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|These ones seem to work better over here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All working seats in this ring anyway...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now figure group invite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli tries to send invites for the Imprudence Viewer group''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i also made a imprudence group, which i now left
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it should be avail again now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Group search doesn't work here, I guess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I guess we won't have much more people coming.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Of course I was wrong... ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hair didn't rez
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sit doesn't work hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So everyone's hair are missing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe, haven't found any good hair yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the asset server was restarted 2 days ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe they wiped something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and no leopard avatar :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*mews*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|weird but we can chat for what it looks like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shall we make a group here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, how much trouble did you guys have logging in?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no trouble
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not at all - but I had some difficulties finding my way to the 6th floor, like last time I was in Bade.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The teleporter is a bit strange, but oh well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no trouble logging in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Of course, no trouble != good user experience... I had to erase "Geneko" "Nemeth" from the inputs and type in "Kakurady" "Drakenar")
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|using Imprudence and it logs fine every time, except for lag in inventory operations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, none of the viewers have account management features that I'm happy with, including Imprudence
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my sit looks like I'm retarded - the only problem remainig for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Try the other chair, Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snow-129 looks like worth having a closer look
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah and search shaows LL locations like I said in the imp.org forum
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, I guess it has the same anim. Oh well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiro must -really- like this anim.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can see my hair now, I changed it and it worked (on my viewer)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The content selection is a bit more limited on OSGrid. And... not quite the same quality.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|animations seem hardest to come by - no AOs to be found
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But anyway. Let's start up the discussion.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I gave some thought to the login screen a while back, but find it kinda hard to come up with something not so cluttery. In a multi-grid environment it should gather 4 pieces of info: grid, login, pass, location.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can anyone search and get OSG locations?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|using Hippo client, have read/heard that inter-grid TP is possible with...Meerkat?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To make signing as the last avatar easy while changing things possible.... sigh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, Meerkat can do inter-grid TP. Essentially log off from grid A and log in to grid B
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I never got Meerkat to do it myself and Grid manager was very faky so I use IMP
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe Jacek - manual TP management
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as long as you don't use the pie menu on yourself :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so how about search in Imprudence - I'm getting LL content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doesn't TP when you select LMs it finds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, search is wrong in Imp.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|understand that but why LL content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hah, thanks Jacek. I could see you all on the mini-map, but no amount of camera navigation could find you :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK so this is known
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<--- Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same here Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha where is Money Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a Morg here too, if I could remember the password.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Someone thought teleporters could replicate stairs completely, but they didn't realize to add a floor number.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|where did you get the vamp hair Penny?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some freebie store. Lemme see if there's an LM in folder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope. But it's almost certainly RetroDan
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wonder if it's copybotted.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would be great, looks to be of OK quality and maybe I could find something too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have to learn some content creation, and make clothes and skins for Opensim. Without that, this place will be bleak. Everyone should help a little really.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah I bet it may be Kaku
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even non-content people like me. Won't be pretty, but will be something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The creation time is somewhere around 1969... ...that's weird.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I made my av except for shoes and hair
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uh... so is my head.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice one the begining of UNIX time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chairs too. OpenSim probably just never records ctime...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Welcome back Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Az!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I made my AV as well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, and Happy New Year to everyone :-)))
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good work Kaku
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, happy new year!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the TP, Jacek. my avatar seems too short to make it up the steps of the TP pod at landing point
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|inventory operations seem rather borked here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Likewise, Azwaldo. The physics engine is a bit different here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: Thanks, but I think I could still use a lot of improvement.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which operations, Charlette?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I gave up trying to get any viewer on my Windows gaming box to get to OSgrid. It should be identical to the flags used on the Linux viewer, but Windows hates me, and 3 viewers failed. So I replace my SL login with the Windows box, and am here on Imprudence on Linux, which works brilliantly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Woops, lost her
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence works fine for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It failed to start at all on Windows Vista for me. Something about "bad side-by-side configuration" .... meaningless to me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cryptic error messages... typical.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I'm not surprised. Windows is nothing but pain for me, always has been.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I only use Windows for playing Guild Wars, nothing else. I treat it as a games console, and it works like that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Charlette Proto shouts: TP please''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar likes Windows but is currently running Ubuntu, up 2 days, 17:53''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Welcome back, Charlette :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| colspan="2"|''Penny Lane makes a LM here''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Az
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli created a landmark at La Plaza Bade - Landing Zone (OS, Bade Plaza (137, 136, 162)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought all the chairs here are ... working somewhat?!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How did that happen lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I meant wearing and detaching - that sort of thing Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the chair lost its sit target because it still thinks Charlette is sitting there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Easily griefed chairs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sigh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, let's talk about some of the user experience issues with OpenSim and cross-grid stuff.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I liked your "field trip" announcement, Jacek. We could arrange field trips to lots of other grids too :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We've already mentioned the need for viewers to connect to the correct services, like search, currency buying, etc.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably the best if we can get some actual users of OpenSim...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And within OSgrid, to many different places of course
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe next time in a better place.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes! Jacek, make another UXIG group here, it should be under your name to match in SL or I'd do it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There has been talks on SLDev about how to make Snowglobe's maps work in OSGrid too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I spent some time in ReactionGrid, many months ago. Helped with orientation for a couple of classes of Boston High School students. No scripts were needed, they were assigned the building of various body parts. They had not been in SL, so it was all new, all good.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ReactionGrid is the pure Microsoft one, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| colspan="2"|''Charlette Proto shouts: OMG!!!''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since then, I have made occasional visits to test scripts, see how far along the OS development is coming along
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| colspan="2"|''Simulator Version shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev) 9c4e6f0 2009-12-31 06:41:10 +0000 (Unix/Mono)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having trouble, Charlette?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry Imp crashed when I took a snapshot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| colspan="2"|''Penny Lane tries snapshot''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is rather long for a group title... ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll leave my vanity till later
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Microsoft, yes; "pure" I do not know...the grid's founders are all about Microsoft, i think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Same group title as in SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo: How so?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't see your voice dots, just my own
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Shapshot worked for me. Really, I'm finding Imprudence on Linux to be the most stable viewer of all time, anywhere, on any grid. /me loves stability!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think people woul dbother setting up vivox accounts here.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha same here stability=1 FPS=2 extra features=?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar makes note to self to check if Imp runs into deadlocks under linux like Snowglobe does''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The newest Imprudence is fast too though, the days of it being 2nd to Snowglobe are gone. And Snowglobe never stays up for more than a few minutes here for me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mine uses Open Source: libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3
??? J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG: 1.3.0, Runtime: 1.3.0
??? Audio Driver Version: OpenAL, version 1.1 ALSOFT 1.6.372 / OpenAL Community / OpenAL Soft: DirectSound Software
??? GStreamer Version: 0.10.20.1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is a cyclic slowdown with any viewer... not sure where that is from....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very important to poke the two KDU files into Imprudence on Linux though, owing to the memory leak with OpenJPEG.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree about speed Penny, and the diff isn't great either
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah maybe insisting on working with OS dlls in Imp makes me slower too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny, where do I get the kdu files for 64bit?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The Love and Peace group whose tag I'm wearing seems to be about dancing btw, so if you want some socializing here, join them :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: saw your question...looking fer somethin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| colspan="2"|''Kakurady Drakenar wonders if the libs are built with optimization''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah can i join the UXIG group here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek, I clicked too quickly and didn't read --- what group was that invite for?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, Imprudence Viewer --- cool!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tnx :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are groups limited to 25 here too, or is it just the Imp UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I notice there's nobody listed in the UXIG listener group, which probably explains why IM is down. That might be a Bade Plaza problem --- group chat works in Wright Plaza.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this sim is much worse than ones I've seen before
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can try talking in group after the meeting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sim FPS 57 but feels like crap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I prefer IRC.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kakurady: the admin site for a ReactionGrid landowner is a sitefinity interface , ASP.NET
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I prefer Jabber
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|IRC is full of kiddies and griefers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't prefer Jabber, mostly because I don't have anyone to talk to on Jabber.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jabber is good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|irc - dunno - last time i used irc is over 10 ys ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather12
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PNs use IRC
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do microblog through Jabber though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://identi.ca/kakurady
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One thing we can do with Opensim groups that LL won't do is give group a comms server field, which the group owner can set up. It should have fields for native, IRC, and Jabber servers + rooms/channels.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ie. owner of grou determines which system is used for group chat.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|group*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have you noticed how much massively faster vicinity chat is here compared to SL? It's always instantly back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not instantly for you?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How SL can make text chat slow is beyond me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kaku: it's often lagged
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL chat works fine for me most of the time. Although Hippotropolis is very laggy in general, I've found.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|M Linden has to read it all and he isn't a fast reader
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see lindens read it first
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i must away
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see y'all next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byee az
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh! Imprudence t-shirt! I'd like one!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Az!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| colspan="2"|''Penny Lane accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the wear/detach is still borked for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyone else want one?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or an invite to the Imprudence Viewer group?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No thanks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I never got the group invite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe ... i got 3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah lucky Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I got 2 now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OMG the group title
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Drat, it won't let me use a ❤ in a group title.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Add a few roles for different tags, please, Jacek ... might as well please everyone :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or make an officer for such menial admin :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|group chat is very laggy, but the local works OK
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks jacek, that tag is much better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax relogs in a minute ... fresh client just ended compiling''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like the long tag, makes the point that we're not restricted by LL limits here :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it lack of Unicode, the problem with spekial symbols?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha imagine tag griefers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|half the screen would be covered with glyphs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They probably sanity checked it so that only ASCII is allowed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually SL is known for fail logging people with international characters in group titles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freedom doesn't come free. Yes, griefing wll be a cost of that freedom, but I prefer being griefed to living in a nice safe prison.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Penny: Chinese people will tell you otherwise.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Kakurady Drakenar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Stability is important.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about being cloned as a form of griefing Penny
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just like freedom of expression means that you hear crap you would rather not. But we can choose to ignore it, and improve clients to ignore it better and automatically.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|happens to me quite a bit and I haven't experienced anything quite so disturbing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: I know you have a thing about being cloned, but you're out of step with the technology. Cloning is part of the natural order of things in a world that works by sending all assets to everyone. Your life will be a misery until you come to terms with that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah like someone take your identity and all the hard work, maybe that is freedom too - free from the sense of attachment and motivation to start again HAHA
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Clone me any time. Hey, you may even improve on me :-))
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so unique identity is meaningless to you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They can't steal your identity
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well I identify with being recognised just like in RL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Taking your hard work" implies that you don't understand that digital data is inherently copiable. How you look is not your identity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It will be a source of misery if you t
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heard it too many times Penny - all bull, the components of my appearance don't need to be seen by anyone but those who see me naked
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It will be a source of misery if you truly feel hard done by when people use the assets that you accept being sent to the world.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|total crap, just sloppy code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope, it's the way the platform is designed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah sloppy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it is baked into one, but the sloppy code allows source layers to be copied - super lame
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For everyone to see you, your assets are sent to everyone for them to render. No, it's not sloppy coding --- it's THE DESIGN.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|read above
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|By all means change the design. Opensim code is open. But good luck changing the design of SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax reads above:it's THE DESIGN.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but its the design of how computers work ... copy the content from a to b
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats not SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats turing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whether individual layers are sent or bakes are sent, it will make no difference on cloning --- anyone who wants to will still be able to clone you, because the appearance is still sent to them. You need to calm down and accept it. (Or change the code, in Opensim)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|total crap Armin - there is no need to expose individual layers on the av since the 3 parts are baked into a composite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally I prefer to relax, and say "Clone away!" :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is no need to expose the layers, and they are changing the design so that it won't anymore.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: that doesn't help Charlette --- she'll still be cloned
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the old design was that the layers are exposed. The code just implements part of that design.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although I won't say that the code isn't sloppy. Judging by the rest of the code, it probably *is* sloppy.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all this data comunism is phoney, look at Chinese once they thought copyright was crap now they make money from DVD and CD replication for major publishers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's built into the core concept of the platform (and this includes the new VWRAP stuff too) --- assets are sent to clients for local rendering. That means they can be cloned, even if they're just baked composites, and so user appearance can be cloned too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette ... then Alan Turing designed crap ... I can live with that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: McCarthy is rather old hat you know, you're several decades out of step with the "communism" crap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess data bits must be "communist", because everyone can make copies. /sigh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alright, I'm going to stop the discussion here, because we're over time, off topic, and heated
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: it's heated, but it's in a good cause, or else Charlette will be miserable all her life.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll be back at our usual spot next week, although we might have more field trips to OSGrid in the future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay, that's great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can carry on with the discussion, but I'm gonna go get some dinner. Take care all, see you next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Penny Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for organizing Jacek, tc :-)
|}

Downloads

2010-01-04T05:19:26Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* Imprudence */ Updated

{{Help|Viewer=*}}{{RightToc}}

This is an unofficial downloads page. Please see [http://secondlife.com/community/downloads.php the secondlife.com Community:Downloads page] for the latest versions.

For details on the GPLv2 licensed source code for the Second Life Viewer, visit the [[Open Source Portal]]. For the source code archives, read the [[Source downloads]] article.

== Linden Lab Viewers ==

The following viewers are available on the official '''[http://secondlife.com/community/downloads.php Downloads]''' page:

* '''Second Life Viewer''' (a.k.a. the official Viewer, regular Viewer etc.)
* '''[[Release Candidate|Release Candidate Viewer]]'''
** Not always available
** As the name says, these are candidates to become the next release (of the Second Life Viewer)
* '''[[First Look|First Look Viewer]]'''
** Not always available
** "Provide a 'first look' at new features under development" before those are ready to get into a Release Candidate or even a release
* '''Beta Grid Viewer'''
** Only available when a new feature that is being tested on the beta grid requires a new viewer
** Usually, you can use any viewer you like to connect to Aditi, the [[Preview Grid]]
* '''[[Snowglobe|Snowglobe Viewer]]'''
** Linden Lab's own "fork" of the Second Life Viewer
** Quicker inclusion of third party contributions than in the Second Life Viewer
** Review of contributions and QA done by the open source community (some Residents have commit access)

== Third-party Viewers ==
{{KBcaution|'''[http://bit.ly/3pvpolicy See Linden Lab's "Third Party Viewer Policy" announcement, posted on October 20, 2009.]'''.'''}}

Third-party Viewers are those which have been created by developers not working for Linden Lab. These Viewers offer altered or additional functionality compared to the official Second Life Viewer.

The [[Extended_FAQ|Extended FAQ]] states that it is okay to create and distribute third-party viewers as long they adhere to the respective licenses for code usage and server usage.

The code itself is licensed under {{OSWebsite|gplv2|alt=the GNU General Public License (GPL)}}, which governs modification and redistribuition of the source code. Use of Linden Lab's servers will still be governed by [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php the Second Life Terms of Service].

''Note to authors: If you make a viewer available make sure to include platform, version numbers and dates.''

== Graphical Viewers ==
 

=== Cool SL Viewer ===

''' Description '''

This viewer was created and is maintained by {{User|Henri Beauchamp}}. It combines elements of several of the other viewers, as well as extra features, bug fixes and extra patches, all very carefully tested.

It puts emphasis on high UI coherency from one version to the other (meaning no bad surprise for "old timers") while staying in sync with Linden Lab's official viewer features (it's not a fork which would get outdated with time), high stability and reliability, and a high reactivity to new patches and bug fixes provided by the Open Source community.

An "old" v1.19 (legacy renderer) branch is also maintained for the benefit of "old" computer users, which also gets most of the essential features of newer viewers back-ported to it (Mono scripting and adult compliance, for example).

''' Extra Features '''

* Reverses many of the unpopular interface changes, restoring separate friends and groups floaters and reinstating the packet loss and bandwidth indicators, the old toolbar and buttons layouts, the old, more visible, status bar icons (optional for v1.20 and later), the old/normal commands layout in the pie menus, the "All(old)" search tab, the old style (name-sortable) "Groups" search tab, the "Fly" button in the movement controls floater, and '''optionally''' reinstating the old, more visible, tracking dots in the mini-map, and the old chat history floater (without chat input line). Also fixes some UI regressions (missing buttons in some floaters, or visited landmarks tracking in inventory for example).
* Implements the "Restrained Life" API discussed more fully in the Restrained Life section of this page (switchable and disabled by default).
* Allows to configure the date and time formats to match your locale or personal preferences (including with optional seconds for chat and IM timestamps).
* Allows to wear/remove attachments and clothing items on double-click in inventory.
* Allows to optionally prevent notifications to show and be logged in the main chat.
* Allows to disable typing sounds.
* MUD/MUSH/MUCK/MUX style "poses" (i.e. you can type ":" instead of "/me " to emote), and OOC double parenthesis auto-close (i.e. you can type: "((phone, BRB" and it will show as "((phone, BRB))").
* Allows to hide the "Master volume" when not needed in the panel overlay (and the "Release Keys" button for v1.19.2).
* Allows to build large prims (up to 256m in any or all dimensions) on OpenSim (not on SL, because of server-side limitations).
* Improved build tools floater (smaller increments in several parameters, extra "slice" parameter for some prims, transparency up to 100%).
* Improved texture preview floater (with aspect ratio combo).
* Improved mini-map with panning, larger zooming range, specific symbol for avatars above 1024m (work around for a limitation of current server and viewer versions), etc...
* Shows avatar keys in profile (in "My notes" tab).
* Allows to export and import full permissions objects as XML files (for backup and restore purpose, or to transfer objects from one grid to another).
* Allows to connect to all existing grids (and not only LL's) from the login screen.
* Allows network bandwidth over 1500Kbps (and up to 8000Kbps).
* Allows to save/compile scripts present in the inventory as Mono scripts.
* Allows to teleport to double-clicked locations on screen.
* Allows to sit anywhere "on the ground".
* Allows to cache the inventory in the background after login (for faster inventory operations).
* Implements a radar floater.
* Implements a teleports history floater.
* Implements a "Worn" tab in the inventory floater.
* Allows to ignore (and not only decline) friendship and calling card offers.
* Shows the avatar true height in the appearance floater.
* Implements various backports for the v1.19.2 version (Mono compilation support, adult searches and compliance, build and TP up to 4096m, bulk set permissions, TP on double-click on LM in inventory, edit terrain "force" setting, security fixes, etc).
* Many bugfixes by Henri Beauchamp, Nicholaz Beresford, Gigs Taggart, Blakar Ogre, McCabe Maxsted and others.
* More minor features and improvements, to be discovered on the [http://sldev.free.fr/ website]...
* All switchable extra features easily configurable via a "Cool features" tab in the preferences floater.

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://sldev.free.fr/ The Cool SL Viewer homepage]
* Message board: [http://sldev.free.fr/forum/ Cool SL Viewer forum]
* Linux viewer: see the [http://sldev.free.fr/ The Cool SL Viewer homepage] for files and installation instructions.
* Windows viewer: see the [http://sldev.free.fr/ The Cool SL Viewer homepage] for files and installation instructions.
* MacOS X viewer: [http://hyangreflections.blogspot.com/ See Hyang Zhao's site] for files and instructions.
* Source code: The standard Linden codebase is used, with the addition of the patches listed and linked to on the homepage.

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Version : 1.19.2.77 (stable viewer with legacy renderer)
* Date : 2009/12/26

* Version : 1.23.5.4 (stable viewer with Windlight renderer)
* Date : 2009/12/26
 
 
* Status : All Active
 
 
 

=== Emerald Viewer ===
Previously known as "Greenlife Emerald Viewer" - changed to just "Emerald" in October 2009.

''' Description '''

This is a home-brew viewer which adds new functionality to the viewer with the intent of easing the users interaction with the environment. It's developed by multiple people. Versions for Windows and Mac are released, an internal Linux version exists as well.

''' Extra Features '''

* Avatar Scanner
** Full sim range (detects over 1M in the air)
** Shows name, age, payment info, current activity.
** Land and estate commands for ejecting/banning multiple avatars at once
** Buttons to open profile, IM, teleport to or track selected avatars
** Ability to chat radar info (keys) to boost lsl radars
** Ability to display chat notifications for entering sim, exiting sim, entering chat range, exiting chat range, entering draw distance and exiting draw distance respectively.
* RLV API Implementation (off by default)
* Different login page
* Ability to open and display the owner and location of objects that IM you
* Teleport to positions by double clicking
* Option to disabling progress screens (teleport, login, and logout respectively)
* Clothing layer protection (prevents sending of individual clothing textures to other clients, ensuring they can't copy the clothing)
* Customizable IM auto-response system, including giving inventory in the response
* Fly can be set to always enabled, even with Admin menu closed
* Can turn your avatar 'visually phantom'
* Allows ground sit anywhere
* Can enable the attaching of objects in inventory by double-click
* Can block object sit-on-click
* Chatbar as a command line for rezzing platforms, teleporting to coordinates or sims, or teleporting to particular heights.
* Various crash fixes
* Free uploading of "temporary" textures (sim-local and disappear on relog)
* Notification when a friendship ends
* Detection of cooperating alternative viewers
* Shows object last owner in build floater
* Scripts are compiled to mono by default in agent inventory
* Inventory is fetched in background immediately on login
* Group info can be accessed in about land, even if group is not deeded
* Profiles show agent key
* More minimap dot colors, blue for lindens, grey for muted, and purple for friended lindens
* Build Floater Enhancements
** More object choices (from the drop down that lets you change a cube to a sphere)
** More precision information (5 decimal points)
** Ability to set all prim parameters without changing shape (easy prim torture)
** Ability to easily change sculpt stitching
** Can set transparency to 100%
** Can set texture repeats above 100
* Can turn off the typing sound
* Teleport History Floater
* Animation Info Floater
** Shows you all current animations being played on your avatar
** Allows you to stop, or revoke permissions of animations you do not want
** Ability to detect owner of the animations being played, as well as their name
* Included the 1.23 Bulk Permissions Setting
* Option to block the 1 click auto sit
* New custom skin

''' Links '''
* Website: http://www.modularsystems.sl
* Direct download link: http://tinyurl.com/lv25db or http://modularsystems.sl/downloads.html
* Source code: http://tinyurl.com/lv25db or http://modularsystems.sl/downloads.html
* Easy to remember URLs: http://bit.ly/GreenLife http://bit.ly/Emerald

''' Version and time stamp '''

* Version : 1.23.5.1101 
* Date : 12/2/2009
* Status : Active + updated

 
 

=== Emerald Viewer, Frequency Edition ===

''' Description'''

This viewer is based on GreenLife Emerald Viewer, but includes a couple of modifications.

''' Added Features (compared to GreenLife Emerald) '''

* Busy-on-lost focus: Allows resident to automatically switch to busy mode after a set amount of time, _after_ the viewer window lost focus (good for people who have other work to do, and want to ensure that other residents know why their IMs remain unanswered)
* custom tags on a per-avatar basis: add keywords to residents' group/name tag hover box
* display group/name tags in individual colours (per avatar)
* display payment info and age in name tags
** friends always coloured yellow
** muted people always in grey
** all others in a chosen colour out of 7 options
* grey out groups, which have been chosen not to be displayed in your profile

''' Removed Features '''
* IRC client
* experimental Utility Stream
* Client detection (conflicts with the aforementioned use of name tags)

''' Availability '''
Emerald Viewer, Frequency Edition is currently available as Intel-only OS X binary, and as full source code for OS X, Windows & Linux.

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Version : Emerald Viewer, Frequency Edition, 1.0.2 (based on GreenLife Emerald 1.23.4-673)
* Platforms:
** Binary available for OS X 10.5+ (any volunteers for Windows/Linux?)
** Source valid for OS X, Linux, Windows
* Date : Sep 25th, 2009
* Status : Discontinued as of November 8, 2009, download no longer available

 
 

=== Hippo OpenSim Viewer ===

'''Warning!!!''' There is no uninstaller in the "pack" for Windows I downloaded a few days ago!!! Nov 6 2009.

Still no response, after reporting the issue and posting in an already created topic (July 15) in their forum about the missing unisntaller. If I had known there wasn't any uninstaller I would never have downloaded this viewer. Nov 9 2009.

''' Description'''

The Hippo OpenSim Viewer is a modified Second Life viewer, targeted at OpenSim users. It allows building up to a height of 10,000 m, scaling prims up to 256x256x256 m and other exciting features. More specific OpenSim features are under development.

''' Availability '''
Is currently available for Linux and Windows.

''' Links '''
* Website: http://mjm-labs.com/viewer/

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Version : 0.5.1
* Platforms:
** Binary available for Windows and Linux
** Source available (unspecified)
* Date : Mar 24th, 2009
* Status : Active + updated

 
 

=== Imprudence ===

''' Description '''

From the [http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Manifesto Imprudence Manifesto]:

:The primary goal of Imprudence is simple: ''to greatly improve the usability of the Viewer''. In particular, there are 3 aspects of usability that we intend to address:
:
:* ''Approachability.'' Improving comfort and ease of use, especially for new or non-technical users.
:* ''Efficiency.'' Improving speed and ease of common tasks and workflows.
:* ''Satisfaction.'' Improving the emotional effect of the software on the user.
:
:This is not to minimize other aspects of usability, such as reliability, accessibility, or internationalization/localization. We recognize their importance, but lack the expertise to properly address them. We welcome people with such expertise to join the project and help.

Note: Due to licensing issues, this viewer does not ship with the proprietary SLVoice module and its associated files. These can be added back from the official client for those needing voice. [http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/How_to_Re-enable_Voice_Chat Instructions for adding voice chat support] are available on the Imprudence Viewer wiki.

''' Extra Features '''

Check the [http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Features Features page] on the Imprudence wiki for the most up to date features list.

* Countless user interface improvements and bug fixes
* Content Backup (export and import objects, scripts, and avatar shapes that you created)
* Minimap Radar (minimap has a built-in "avatar radar" to tell you who is nearby)
* Enhanced Minimap (better zooming, panning, double click to teleport)
* Restrained Life (RLV) API Support
* Double-click Teleport and Autopilot
* [http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Build_Math_Expressions Build Math Expressions]
* Windlight Toolbar (quick access to windlight presets and graphics settings)
* Grid Manager, with built in support for alternative grids like OSGrid, ReactionGrid, 3rd Rock Grid, and more
* Search Inventory by Creator or Description
* Inventory Quick Filter (quickly filter inventory to show only notecards, or only clothing, etc.)
* Worn Items Tab (shows what you are currently wearing)
* Unread IM Count (shows how many new/unread IMs you have)
* Middle-mouse Paste for Linux
* Confirmation dialogs to prevent accidents (no more accidently teleporting home!)
* Restore to Last Position (rez objects at their previous position)
* Offer Teleport button in the IM window
* Double-click to wear attachments in inventory
* "Phantom Avatar" Mode
* Asset (Texture) Browser
* Animation List
* See object's Last (previous) Owner
* Ground Sit Anywhere
* Hide Selection Outlines (hide the laggy and distracting glowing outlines when building)
* Choose Default Chat Channel
* Includes stability improvements from Nicholaz

''' Links '''
* Website: http://imprudenceviewer.org/
* Download: http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Downloads
* Forums: http://imprudenceviewer.org/forums/
* The Imprudence Manifesto: http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Manifesto

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Version : 1.2.1
* Date : November 26, 2009
* Platform: Windows, Linux, Mac
* Status : Active

 
 
 

=== Restrained Life ===

''' Description '''

This viewer, codename "'''RestrainedLife'''" is an attempt at enhancing the experience of people who practice BDSM in Second Life. It is used jointly with simple scripts made to use its features in-world, such as making an attached object undetachable, preventing chat and such. An '''API''' (Application Programming Interface, a text file) is provided so that every content creator can create their own scripts to interface their own items to the viewer and use its features.

''' Extra Features '''
* Attachments can be made undetachable
* Chat and IM prevention on demand, with exceptions if needed
* Teleport and sit-tp prevention on demand, with exceptions if needed
* Editing and Rezzing prevention on demand
* Adding/Removing clothes on demand, + force remove clothes and force remove unlocked attachments
* Force sit and prevent stand up (even after a relog) on demand
* Manual (by IM) and automatic (by script) version checking
* Force attach objects and outfits
* API for content creators
* And more...

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://realrestraint.blogspot.com/ Marine Kelley's blog on Blogspot]
* Direct download link to the Windows viewer: [http://www.erestraint.com/realrestraint Download for Windows] (Executable and readme)
* Direct download link to the MacOS X viewer: [http://www.erestraint.com/realrestraint Download for MacOS X] (Executable and readme, courtesy of Mo Noel)
* Direct download link to the Linux viewer: [http://www.erestraint.com/realrestraint Download for Linux] (Executable and readme, courtesy of Loom Kish)
* Source code and text API : [http://www.erestraint.com/realrestraint Download] (Text files)
* API as a wiki page : [[LSL Protocol/RestrainedLifeAPI|API]] (Wiki format)
* Specification to interface cages and furnitures with the viewer through the use of a relay : [[LSL Protocol/Restrained Life Relay Specs|Relay Specs]] (Wiki format)

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Version : 1.22 , compiled on SL official viewer 1.23.4
* Date : 10/10/2009
* Status : Active

 
 
 

=== Meerkat ===

''' Goals '''

* To create a fully GPL viewer (no proprietary dependencies)
* To encourage a community of developers that will submit patches for prompt integration
* To have the freedom to make the sort of changes that Linden Lab has traditionally been unable to integrate (translation patches, refactoring, fixing intentionally crippled features, changes that touch many files)
* To retain compatibility with Linden Lab's grid and protocols, present and future
* To implement a loosely coupled cross-grid functionality that requires no central authentication authority.

''' Extra Features '''
* Log out and back in without quitting
* Loosely coupled intergrid teleport -- In Process
* Most of the other changes common to third party viewers

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://www.meerkatviewer.org/ Meerkat Viewer]
* Direct download link: [http://code.google.com/p/meerkat-viewer/downloads/list Download versions of this viewer]
* Source code: svn checkout http://meerkat-viewer.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ meerkat

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Version : 0.2.x
* Date : September 6, 2009
* Status : Active

 
 
 

=== MonoVida Communicator ===

"Your Viewer; Your Imagination"

''' Description '''
Based on components and features from [[#MonoVida_Studio|MonoVida Studio]], Communicator allows you to use detached windows with your viewer of choice. An API patch is provided in order to compile your viewer if it's not already available. Communicator then runs separately from you viewer to provide Chat/IM/Contacts panels anywhere on your desktop, and even on another computer.

''' Features '''
* Works in 32 or 64 bit mode
* Cross platform: works on Windows, Mac, and Linux
* Mono/.NET based
* Similar components to MonoVida Studio

''' Links '''
* Documentation: [https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Communicator Step-by-Step guide]
* Website & Source code: [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVC Project page & source details]
* {{jira|SNOW-375}} Detached Communicator: Chat/IM/Contacts windows "thinking outside the box" in a separate process/plugin

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Date : 11/Dec/2009
* Version : Snowglobe 1.3 / Communicator 0.9.6
* Status : Active

=== MonoVida Studio ===

"Your Viewer; Your Imagination"

''' Description '''
MonoVida Studio is like an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment IDE] to virtual reality and your imagination. While it may seem like what was the regular Second Life viewer with its UI guts torn out and surgically replaced, it uses LL's code to render a scene and network with the grid as you expect, and everything else is the Studio, which constitutes your viewer. MonoVida Studio is built with .Net/Mono and Snowglobe, so you gain all those powerful development tools. Several namespaces exist, with widgets, gadgets, and classes, to help you build your desired component, your custom UI, and maybe your custom AI. (See also: [[#MonoVida_Communicator|MonoVida Communicator]])

This visual, entitle [http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Your%20Viewer%20Your%20Imagination.png "Your Viewer; Your Imagination"], shows the different layers involved as the derived code is sliced into components, which are then integrated with G-Objects, which then is usable from various different languages.

''' Features '''

* Uses omvviewer as an upstream source for GPL goals.
* Purely based on Gnome (Gtk) (in source, llwindow/* has been removed, see also: [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVS-1 MVS-1])
* Universal/Metaversal object hierarchies. See here for further explanation: [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVS-32 MVS-32]
* Total rewrite of the UI (in progress): [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVS-2 MVS-2] (llui)
** And, rewrite of all Viewer Panels: [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVS-6 MVS-6]
** Like, the Communication Panels: [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVS-25 MVS-25]
*** They can be overlaid or detached from the main view.
* Skins: Several hundred skin themes available to choose from:
** Download & Install them: [http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/Themes Softpedia's List of Gtk-Themes]
* Complete power of .NET/Mono
* Snowglobe DLL: The base code derived from LL's viewer made into a dynamically shared library.
** [http://library.gnome.org/devel/gobject/stable/pr01.html G-Objects] are used to export the API.
* Snowglobe-Sharp: The C# to Snowglobe DLL bridge
* Screenshots (of themes and work in progress): [http://mono.dzonux.net/file/MonoVida-20090521.png #1] [http://mono.dzonux.net/file/MonoVida-20090619a.png #2] [http://mono.dzonux.net/file/MonoVida-20090701a.png #3]

''' Links '''
* Website & Source code: [http://jira.dzonux.net:8080/browse/MVS Project page & source details]
* Dockable & Detachable Windows {{jira|SNOW-98}}

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Date : 16/Nov/2009
* Version : (Front-end) Alpha, (Back-end) Snowglobe 0.8 (1.22.11)
* Status : Active

 
 
 

=== Nicholaz Edition ===

''' Description '''

These are Windows viewer based on SL builds with a focus on stability, usability and performance (see [http://www.blueflash.cc/users/nicholaz/EyeCandy/!!Installation.txt Installation.txt] for homebrew disclaimer). Mac and Linux variants are available through other open sourcers (links on the website).

''' Extra Features '''
* Improved stability
* Lower memory footprint
* GUI redesigns
* Workarounds for common annoyances (Group IM Filtering, "Release Key" button, etc.)
* see [http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/2008/05/version-overview.html this entry] for an overview of different versions

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/ Nicholaz Beresford on Blogspot]
* Direct download link: [http://www.blueflash.cc/users/nicholaz Download versions of this viewer]
* Source code: Look at the [http://www.blueflash.cc/users/nicholaz download site] for the source-xxx-zip files in the respective folders and see the readme.txt inside the archives

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Date : 09/07/2009
* Status : Mostly discontinued - only occasional fixes

=== Onrez Viewer ===

''' Description '''

The Onrez viewer was made by the Onrez company in connection with a Second Life themed story on the high tech forensics based TV show "CSI: New York".

''' Extra Features '''
* A back and history button for teleports
* In-viewer web browsing.

''' Comment '''
The source code for this viewer is closed source.

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Status : Discontinued, download no longer available

 
 

=== Rainbow Viewer / Cool Viewer ===

''' Description '''

Based on the offical SecondLife viewer this metaverse client for SL and OpenSims incorporates a lot of improved, new, up- and backported features and fixes that make the speedy and rock stable RV/CV the client of choice for many users.

This viewer includes many patches and changes from a lot of different people and sources which I am very grateful to be able to use. Credits are given to everyone I know, in case I missed someone I sincerely appologize.

Thanks to Henri Beauchamp who laid the foundation for this viewer with his Cool SL Viewer. Special thanks to Winter Ventura for the Cool Viewer logo and Jacek Antonelli and Peter Stindberg for the Rainbow Viewer logo :). And to all the others who helped and supported me.

A major improvement is an up-to-date OpenGL implementation that especially helps users plagued by ATI's Catalyst drivers but also leads to measurable improvements of overall graphics performance by 30...100% compared to the official viewer; depending on your system. Rainbow Viewer features the current user interface whereas Cool Viewer spots the leaner cleaner and more configurable legacy UI. It's all about choice :).

''' Some incomprehensive list of features '''
* New 1.22.12.0 code baseline
* CV's legacy User interface with a clean, simple and userfriendly layout or Rainbow Viewers current official UI, you choose!
* Improved Graphics rendering, especially for ATI users (measured >1/3 faster than the official viewer)
* Marine Kelley's RestrainedLife (off per default)
* Full Adult Compliance
* Redesigned and "up-ported" search functionality, probably the best search in any viewer nowadays
* Low lag radar and AV management tools
* Viewer skinning
* Object export/import, limited to creator
* Bulk permission editing
* Last owner display to track content theft
* "Worn" tab in inventory
* Double click to wear attachments
* Enhanced building tools
* Flexible Sculpties
* Large Prims (currently only for Opensim grids due to SL limitations)
* Maximized Network Bandwidth
* Flexible Grid selection at login for SL and all OpenSims
* Teleport History and speedy doubleclick teleport
* Avatar UUID in profiles
* Features tab in Preferences for easy switching of features
* OpenJPEG 1.3
...and a large number of other goodies and stability fixes that improve your overall experience. Too many to mention here :). Please check the [http://coolviewer.googlecode.com/files/RELEASE_NOTES.txt Release Notes] for details.

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://my.opera.com/boylane Cool Viewers for Virtual Worlds]
* Direct download link: [http://coolviewer.googlecode.com Binary versions on Google Code]
* Source code: [http://github.com/boy Sources on Github]

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Rainbow Viewer Netbook Edition v1.2
* Rainbow Viewer 1.22.12.0 R4
* Cool Viewer 1.22.12.0 R11
* Date : 27/12/2009
* Status : Active

 
 

=== RealXtend Edition ===

''' Description '''

The realXtend viewer is a heavily modified version of the Linden Lab's Second Life client by a partnership of two Finnish companies, ADMINO technologies and LudoCraft.

'''Extra Features '''
* Second life compatibility mode for use in SL and Opensim worlds
* Teleports between realXtend and Secondlife

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://www.realxtend.org/]
* Direct download link: http://www.realxtend.org/downloads.html
* Source code: http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendviewer/

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Version : 0.3
* Date : 07/28/2008
* Status : Active

 
 

=== Snowglobe, Frequency Edition ===

''' Description'''

This viewer is based on Linden Lab's Snowglobe Viewer, but includes a bunch of modifications, some of them custom-made, some adopted from other viewers (Emerald, Meerkat, Cool SL).

''' Snowglobe: Frequency Edition -- Features '''

Some highlights:

* Kitty Barnett's RLVa 1.0.4e.
* Radar client / Avatar List
* Teleport History Floater
* Double-Click Teleport
* Double-Click Inventory Actions
* Inventory Quick-Filter
* Custom Tags for Avatars with Colours (and Payment Info/Age)
* Z-axis Offset Change to avoid Sinking into the Ground
* Option to disable Progress Screens (Teleport, Login, and Logout respectively)
* Show List of alt Avatars upon Login
* Detection when someone starts a new Instant Message (allow to optionally steal Focus)
* Avatar Height displayed in "Edit Appearance" Floater
* Sit anywhere Functionality
* Instant Inventory Loading on Login
* Slider for Drawing Distance/Graphics Remote
* Camera Zoom up to 1024m
* Show Age in Days in Profile Floater
* Free uploading of "Temporary" Textures
* Unpublished Groups greyed-out
* busy-on-lost-focus
* added Busy-Mode shortcut

We are currently working on more features.

''' Links '''
* Website: http://www.sfreq.org/wiki/snowglobe/Releases (find binary & source code there)

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Version : Snowglobe:Frequency 1.2.0 (based on unreleased Snowglobe 1.2.0, SVN trunk 2834)
* Platforms:
** Binary available for OS X 10.5+ Windows, Linux
** Source valid for OS X, Linux, Windows
* Date : Oct 17, 2009
* Status : Active + updated

 
 

=== omvviewer ===

''' Goals '''

* To create a fully GPL viewer (no proprietary dependencies)
* To enable easy building of the source code on various Linux distros including 64 bit distros
* To Get the viewer packaged with in Linux Distros

''' Packages available (32 and 64 bit) '''
* Debian Lenny
* Ubuntu Intrepid
* Arch
* Gentoo

''' Extra Features '''
Various extra features found in other viewers, UI changes are kept to a bare minimum as this is a packaging project not a code base fork. Stability fixes are given high priority.

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://omvviewer.byteme.org.uk/ Project page]
* Source code: [http://omvviewer.byteme.org.uk/source.shtml Source details]

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Date : 27/March/2009
* Version : 1.22.11
* Status : Active

=== Vertical Life Client ===

''' Description '''

This client is aimed mostly at SL Role Players and SL Military, but sports quite a few interesting improvements that make it worth taking a look at.

''' Extra Features '''
* Space Mode and Defer Sky Rendering; to remove atmosphere and replace with stars.
* Ability to easily activate and view who is using look-at and alt-cam. Useful for seeing who's spying on you or looking up your skirt.
* Colored minimap dots -- cool blue for Merczateers, red for enemies of the [[Iron Symphony]], cyan for friends, white for unrendered/unrezzed, and green for others.
* No teleport screens.
* Render avatar hitbox option.
* Forewarning of incoming IMs option (be told if someone is writing an IM before they even send it)
* Exclusive 'teleport' features: IM someone or a group, anyone using Vertical Life will receive a drop down allowing them to easily TP you without messing with profile buttons etc. Also shows up as a right click option on the mini-map or radial menu choice on an avatar right click.
* Hover over minimap dots to see name of avatars and their distance from you.
* Right click dots on minimap to see options such as "Mass TP" or to view an individual's profile.
* Free temporary texture uploads.
* Clean UI appearance.
* and more!

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://nexii.ordoimperialis.com/ Vertical Life Client]
* Direct download link: [http://nexii.ordoimperialis.com/client/Vertical%20Life%20v1.5.5%20Setup.exe Windows Version]
* Direct download link: [http://nexii.ordoimperialis.com/client/Vertical%20Life%20Source%20v1.5.5%20Setup.exe Source Code]

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Version: 1.5.7
* Date : 2009 July 13
* Status : Discontinued

 
 

==Text-Only Viewers==

===AjaxLife ===
''' Description '''
Browser based Second Life client, created by Katharine Berry. The only web-browser client which made it a lifeline for residents who could not use a full graphical viewer, or who could not download other text-only clients because of limitations such as corporate firewalls.
On Sept 8th 2009, Katherine posted on her blog: "AjaxLife is currently down, due to being banned by Linden Lab. I will re-enable it when I have figured out why."

''' Links '''
* Website: http://ajaxlife.net/

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Version: 0.5.1
* Date: 2008/09/15
* Platform: Platform independant
* Status: Active

 
 

=== METAbolt ===
''' SL Text Client'''

''' Description '''

METAbolt is an SL text client. It is light weight and cross grid, which means it will work in Second Life as well as other grids that are based on OpenSIM. METAbolt is Open Source so it's free...it is built ground up using libopenmetaverse and it is '''not''' a modified version of the official SL viewer. Currently METAbolt is only available for Windows platforms.

METAbolt is ideal if:

* the graphical viewers are not allowed at your work place
* you have a low powered computer that has difficulty running the SL viewer
* you have a low speed internet connection e.g. dial up/ISDN
* you need to run multiple alts at the same time for land security, modelling, group management functions etc
* you can't or don't want to run the SL viewer all the time but need the ability to stay online for communications or other reasons

''' Features '''
Too many to be listed here! Here are just a few:

* Ability to mass distribute products, objects, scripts etc
* Ability to start multiple instances for different alts from a command and/or batch file
* Auto log-in upon SL disconnect
* Built in Machine Translation with 16 language pairs
* Auto spoken language detection
* Emoticons on chat & IM. Feature can be switched on/off
* Detailed user preference settings
* Auto clothes changer
* Send/receive group notices
* Ability to wear and take off clothing, shape, skin and objects
* Sophisticated AI (Artificial Intelligence)
* Radar which shows nearby avatars with distances. The distance can configured to any level via application settings
* Radar has single click icons for IM, profile, worn attachments, friendship offer, turn to, follow, go to, freeze, eject, ban of selected avatar on radar list
* Teleport history with ability to save any location as a landmark as well as Teleport with one click
* Mute list of avatars and objects
* Ability to disable Group IMs and Group Notices
* Auto-sit upon login optional fuction
* Ability to relay IMs to Twitter in real time
* Ability to use/display local or SL time
* Fully functional SL like "About Land" with "return of objects" feature on selected avatar/s
* Functional Profile viewer where you can edit your details
* Advanced IDE for developers to develop in LSL, C#, SQL, Java, XML and many others with context help, tooltips, snippets and more
* Ability to create, edit, save scripts and notecards to inventory as well as Hard Drive (only the ones you own)
* Picture viewer to view textures and snapshots in detail with the ability to rotate and save to Hard Drive (only the ones you own)
* Full chat & IM logs (features can be switched on/off)
* Music player with album art and lyrics
* Media player capable of playing ANY internet based content specified in land media (providing you have the necessary software installed on your machine)
* Movement direction buttons
* Mini map with ZOOM capability on chat screen for a "single click" access
* Large/main map with icons that show other avatars on the same level as you, above you and below you with a "click and teleport" feature on the map
* SL search on Events, Places, People and Groups
* Advanced auto update features which you can configure to your liking
* Object Manager: Detailed object information (including child objects and task inventory), stats and powerfull search function which also offers the ability to edit Permissions on objects you own (this is also available via the inventory)
* Group Manager plug-in for sending direct group invites (optional)
* Uses low computing power and bandwidth
* Displays advertising from various partners
* One-to-One quick technical support via METAforums
* Plug-ins & extensions are supported from developers. As well as DLL & EXEs, uncompiled classes can be developed in C#, VB and Java and dropped in as an extension

''' Links '''
* Website: http://www.metabolt.net/
* Wiki: http://www.metabolt.net/METAwiki/
* Download: http://www.metabolt.net/download.asp
* Source code: http://www.metabolt.net/download.asp (includes plug-in/extension sample project)

''' Version and timestamp '''
* Version : 0.9.11.0 (BETA)
* Date : 24/12/2009
* Platform: Windows Only
* Status : Active

 
 

=== omvviewer-light ===

''' A Text client for the 3D Metaverse '''

''' Description '''
omvviewer-light is a text client for the 3D Metaverse including SecondLife, written from Scratch (but using the libomv library for protocol handling). It's GUI is created in Gtk# which is cross-platform making this the only current Text client that is still active and cross platform. Tested on Linux (32/64 bit) and Windows (not 64-bit windows).

''' Features '''
To many to list here in detail please see the project page below but in summary, Full inventory control, Full Chat/IM/Group IM's. Object search and interaction. Realtime local maps. Parcel displays. Read and Edit NoteCards and Scripts. View profiles. Friends Lists etc .....

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://omvviewer-light.byteme.org.uk/ Project page]
* Source code: [http://omvviewer-light.byteme.org.uk/source.shtml Source details]

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Date : 25/Aug/2009
* Version : 0.48.0.6
* Status : Active

 
 

=== Radegast ===

''' Lightweight client for connecting to Second Life and [http://opensimulator.org/ OpenSim] based virtual worlds '''

''' Description '''

Radegast is feature rich GUI client. With it's full support for all communication within a virtual world (chat, IM, group IM, friends conference) it's ideal for situations where full 3D client is less than ideal solution, for example, an office environment, too slow a machine and similar.

It's written using [http://lib.openmetaverse.org/ libopenmetaverse], and it runs on any platform that supports .NET/mono. Its being actively tested on Windows and Linux.

''' Features '''

* Chat (local, IM, group, friends conference)
* Inventory (allows manipulation, deletion of the items, moving them around, sending to other people by dropping item on their profile)
* Ability to wear/take off clothes and attachments from the inventory
* Backup of all scripts and notecards from the inventory
* World map (very fast implementation using Google maps)
* Object finder - list objects nearby, sort them by distance, name, see details
* A.L.I.C.E AI chat - turn it on in tools menu and have fun with automatic responses to chat/IM generated by a built in Artificial Intelligence
* List of all avatars in a region (radar), and those within 300m in nearby regions
* Movement controls
* Support for activating gestures from the inventory
* Avatar appearance - others using 3D client will see you appear correctly, and will not be able to tell that you're using a text client
* Streaming music
* Text-To-Speech for reading out loud incoming messages
* Speech recognition for controlling UI and entering text in chat
* Experimental voice support for local chat

''' Links '''

* Website: [http://radegastclient.org/ radegastclient.org]
* Downloads: [http://code.google.com/p/radegast/downloads/list Downloads]
* Nightly build: [http://radegastclient.org/files/radegast-latest.zip Zip Archive] [http://radegastclient.org/files/radegast-latest.exe Windows Installer]
* Source code: svn checkout [http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ http://radegast.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/] radegast
* Report bugs/request new features: [http://jira.openmetaverse.org/browse/RAD Issue tracker]
* Documentation: [http://radegastclient.org/wiki/ Wiki]

''' Version and timestamp '''

* Date : November 18, 2009
* Version : 1.12
* Status : Active

 
 

=== SLeek ===
First text only viewer ever, mentioned for completeness, not actively maintained anymore. MetaBolt is based on SLeek.

 
 

=== SLiteChat ===

''' A Lite IM/Chat Text-only Client for Second Life '''

''' Description '''
SLiteChat (pronounced "slight-chat") is a completely open source text-only IM/chat client for use with Second Life. Use it to talk to your friends without having to load up all of those heavy graphic goodies. Useful for those at work times. :-)

''' Features '''
* Communicate in-world with people on your friends list. Full adding/removing and search for Residents supported.
* Group chat is supported (however at this writing you cannot leave a group or search for to join).
* Local chat and IM history is supported.
* Can log into other grids.

''' Links '''
* Website: [http://www.slitechat.org/ Project page]
* Source code: [http://www.slitechat.org/download/ Source details]

===Sparkle IM ===

''' Second Life Chat and IM on your iPhone or iPod Touch '''

''' Description '''
iPhone and iPod Touch based Second Life Client, developed by Genkii. The only native client available on the iPhone. Connect over 3G, Edge or Wifi to Second Life for a easy and fast communication in SL on the go.

''' Links '''
* Website: http://sparkle.genkii.com/
* iTunes AppStore: http://bit.ly/6DRS2

=== Touch Life for iPhone ===

''' iPhone Client for Second Life '''

''' Description '''

Touch Life allows you to log into Second Life anytime from your iPhone or iPod Touch. The most complete mobile client for accessing Second Life.

''' Features '''

* Instant Messaging - Initiate or respond to individual or group IM's.
* Chat - Converse with nearby avatars.
* World Map - View sims, teleport, search or use landmarks.
* MiniMap & Who's Nearby - Zoom in, move & turn, see who's nearby.
* Inventory - View notecards & pictures, give & accept items.
* Profiles - View profiles, make payments, teleport, befriend.
* Groups - View groups, join & leave, send invites.
* Search - Find people, groups, places, regions, and more.
* Photos - Snap pictures and upload as textures.
* Much More!

''' Links '''
* Website: http://www.pocketmetaverse.com/
* AppStore: [http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/touch-life/id343511720?mt=8 Open in iTunes]

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2009-12-18T00:58:44Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2009 */ December 17 - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17|December 17]] - Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-17

2009-12-18T00:57:43Z

Jacek Antonelli: Created page with '== Topic == User Experience Interest Group Discussion for December 17, 2009. '''Topic: Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence.''' == Summary == We will not have meet...'

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for December 17, 2009.

'''Topic: Improving Immersion by Reducing UI Presence.'''

== Summary ==

We will not have meetings or December 24 or 31 due to the holidays. The January 7 meeting will be held on OSGrid. More details will be announced soon.

This week we discussed making the UI less intrusive and distracting, in order to improve the user's sense of immersion in the world.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess this means that OSgrid isn't this week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OSGrid will be January 7
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Morgaine :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|KK Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah .. better january than christmas eve
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, next week is Christmas Eve, and then after that is New Year's Eve
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bad timing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sadly January i will be concentrating on clinical psychology to finally get my "Diplom"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, will you be able to make it on Jan 7, Armin?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Better not, let Armin study :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or sleep, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, aye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|7th sounds ok, but then not before 29th
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Thickbrick :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol ... my modus of working is doing nothing or 16 hrs a day :-/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think this is everyone we will probably get today. McCabe is busy with finals, so good luck to him on that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Thickbrick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Thick :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's begin. Today we're talking about reducing the UI to improve immersion.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah good luck to him !
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In other words, making the UI less "in your face" and distracting, and blocking the view of the world less
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like that chat window now takes 3/4 of my view?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, exactly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one angle on that is the separate rendering window or monitor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, but we've talked a lot about separate windows before, so let's focus on other ways this week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Worth mentioning that the "Zbrush approach" that we've discussed many times (ie. no UI obscuring the scene, because every element of UI is draggable to the frame, so you customize your own frame to hold those things you want "open" and no floaters needed --- the 3D view resizes between the frames so nothing is lost).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|someone in AWGroupies made a chat window based on a proxy sniffer for text
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you mean Dzonatas' patch? it's much more than that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, that's a good way Morgaine. Having the UI around the edges of the window would make it so less UI (or no UI) is obscuring the view
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My line seems to be missing a verb, but you get the idea.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like that paradigm Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dzonatas client is a rewrite in c#
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UI rewrite only.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|sabri Charisma:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bellissimo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| colspan="2"|''IM: sabri's Google Translator: beautiful''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| colspan="2"|''Thickbrick Sleaford agrees that that looks more reasonable than the GIMP approach''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Could you summarize the GIMP approach for people who aren't familiar with that?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think you right Armin, not really part of Second Life™ viewer, but in a way a compimentary tool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(GIMP = multiple windows...)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Before I forget, Jacek, today's OSS meeting that just finished provides a nice topic for a future UXIG --- 3D display! (Both stereoscopic, Johnny Lee approach, and others)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Cool idea Morg, I'll add it to the list)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, yes. In GIMP, there are many separate windows that you can position anywhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah GIMP has separate windows for tools , but Photoshop does it better not having the main menu repeat in evey document window like GIMP does
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stereo is problematic - user fatigue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're not talking about 3D / stereo displays this week :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|esp crossed eye 3d ... we are not talking about ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shutter goggles are one problem, but LCDs are just crap res and heavy, besides cutting you out from the world you are actually in eg typing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Another way to reduce the UI presence, which I'm sure we have discussed before, is having everything in hidable "docks" or "drawers" on the sides of the windows, and they would hide when not in use.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But, that only reduces the UI when you're not using it... which isn't the problem so much.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup - 3D is lame in my experience - fishtank is best
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You don't have to use GIMP's per-window menus though, you could use just the main window's menus, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it for providing additional menus. Lots of other criticisms though :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, we're not talking about that this week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW, GIMP 2.6 doesn't have the menu in the child windows anymore (at least on linux)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup GIMP is a mess at large, but works well on two monitors
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would it be possible with what we have right now to have seperate windows?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on windows it still does on 2.6.7
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thick: sure it does.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be difficult right now to have separate windows
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it kind of make sense when you have one app per desktop, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A lot of the viewer code would need to be restructured
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I actually had GIMP 2.6.7 open, and see it there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|difficult or (almost) impossible?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: It must depend on your window manager then, because I'm looking at 2.6.7 right now and only the main GIMP window has the menus
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: you have to rightclick the pane to get the menus to pop up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could we have seperate windows (ab)using the new media api?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure what you mean, Morg, but anyway this is off topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin: in theory, sure. But in practice there's no adequate API to the viewer yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin: you mean could seperate windows use it, or could it be done that way?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not intimately familiar with the plugin API, but I don't think it's designed for that sort of thing (yet)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova nods''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a good toolbar is another way to avoid clutter onscreen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could it be done that way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not in it's current way - maybe when it's exapanded in the future
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: What would you do with the toolbar to avoid clutter?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm. pitty that is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a toolbar eg doube line of chat with tabs etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm assuming we aren't talking about building tasks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right, not building tasks. Mostly exploring and socializing. Activities where you want to be immersed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It comes back to the "Zbrush approach" --- a "good toolbar" is one that you can customize with the controls you want.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Funnily enough, I bet a Zbrush-type frame would be much simpler than the current UI setup, where everything is located explictly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does "Zbrush approach" means dockable windows?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Morgaine, the chat/IM would be different than Z-Bruch tools but not impossible
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thick: kinda ... but the general idea is that SMALL elements should be draggable from large panels to your frame, then the large panels closed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So chat/IM would be integrated into the toolbar instead of being a separate window?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Eg. I'd drag my kittie and my Xmas outfit folders from my inventory to my frame.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, talking of Xmas, let's get into the spirit :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are some of the things that block your view / break immersion for you? Chat/IM is a big one for me. What else?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chat and IM could be a couple of lines above the text entry in the bottom toolbar - I never use that but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Grrr, hate anim conflicts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|along side of it one would have a few tabs to select what is dispalyed and to show and active at the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|inventory opening up when you get stuff
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I switch that off, but most people don't
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fast timers console - hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well most of the time I'd be happy with a 3-4 line chat history border, so I'd add that to my top or bottom frame.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, that's an interesting one. How could the UI deal with incoming inventory without opening up the inventory window?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and debug log - joking
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of the time one could just have a single line inventory crolling to the new thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this way one could use it - eg play gesture you get
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: well first of all, part of the inventory problem is that it's monolithic. If just desired sections of it at a time could be popped up, or attached to the frame, life would be much less painful
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I said with my two main outfit folders, all I need are the two folder names.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the purpose of it opening up the inventory is to allow you to preview/use it, and to move it into the folder you want. So maybe there could be a special notice that allows those things (open/use/preview, and move to a folder)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you see what I meant - a single item inv which expands up or drops down when you want it - could always show the last thing used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Recent items" could do with a history slider :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes please!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha history
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How would the history slider work? Previous/Next sessions? Or set a date range?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to have ;ast used/worn attribute in the inv
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|last*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: first question has to be whether it's possible at all. Is there a record of when things were received?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I find myself going to the filter setting and changing the time period on Recent Items a lot, so jsut a slider to set that would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|last time that is - able to sort like the accuried date now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, all the items have an "Acquired" date.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Super!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And there are already filter controls for date range. Although currently there's no way to set the end date
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|acquired date is less practical (for me) than last used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd want two dates then, to limit the span matched.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So travelling back through acquisition history would move both sliders back together
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all this would make a wide (deep) toolbar, but that could make a neat display
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. And we could take some inspiration (with a grain of salt) from web sites that have histories, like banking sites or the SL transaction log. See if any of them handle the UI especially well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha, that's optimistic :DDDDDD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What else gets in your way in the UI?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Funny, I wonder why "Recent items" has never got any love.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Besides chat and inventory?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmmm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|map
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Full map or minimap?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not the minimap, that's inevitable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mkay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|edit being in a wrong place
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|weird but, I'd rather it snapped to the side (left or right)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe all floaters should snap to sides
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|automatic camera movement gets in my way every time I build or try to adjust attachments ... it keeps autofocussing on exactly where I do *not* want to look at
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also animation windows - they are a mess when you open them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Edit controls would be perfect for the "Zbrush approach". Program a preset to throw the edit panel parts into one of the 4 frame edges, unless you've customized it before.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin: yeah,, camera needs love. Or, it just needs flaming Reset Linden to stop adding free resets and movements.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup, corners would be good, but what about HUDs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, I hate appearance camera movement. And they seem especially broken in OpenSim for some reason.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup, whay can't one turn it off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think corners could mean it's outside the "viewscreen" area
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|looking at my back is hardly of any help
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I bring up unsolicited camera movement every few months at Nyx's OH. Last one was yesterday :-)))))
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(so not blocking huds)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can turn off some of the camera movements in Input & Camera preferences. But it doesn't turn them all off.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some of it is server side
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup, the remaining ones are bad enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. They added those two checkboxes after our "Leave My Camera Alone!" campaign in the SL forums, Jacek. Some years ago. And still it moves, grrrrr.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i spend 2/3 of the time building with readjusting the cam ... thats jut waste of time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It still moves the camera back and forth to try to fit your avatar on the screen when you move the window.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*just
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's Reset Linden. He creeps into LL HQ at night and sprays resets and free movements all over the code.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually, the whole Appearance adjustment concept is a real immersion breaker. Why do you have to stop what you're doing, stand up, and turn around, just to edit your appearance?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek++
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why not adjust it where you are, in the pose you're in?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek += 1000000000
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Jacek, posing is superfluous too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and why isnt there a *fix camera HERE* button?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I understand that a predefined pose is useful, but we have predefined poses available!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe was talking about removing the preview panels in the Appearance window too, because they are computationally expensive. We may have to do a big overhaul of the appearance process soon.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|editing attachments could use a pose but not changing shape or editing system clothes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but editing appearance is usually done alone so the lag clientsude is very rare - I never noticed it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, there could be one preview view in the appearance window, to show your avatar in an empty space (or a closet... or a cosmetic surgeon's office), so you could use that to judge, as well as your current pose.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|make it an option maybe, I use previews more than the lame descriptions we have
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There could be a similar window for adjusting attachments. Make a new view to see your avatar, so you can adjust things easily without getting up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Re camera woes, it stems from lack of identified camera modes. (Some MMOs have 5 or 6 camera modes, you flick between them explicitly). SL has only two, normal and mouselook, and the mouselook has a ton of crap baggage associated with it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, camera needs an overhaul too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Eg. we should have a camera mode where the view doesn't change *AT ALL* --- you should be able to run around in the scene shown.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli takes it out behind the shed and shoots it.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Put it out of its misery. And end our misery too, hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think appearance edit window could use a seperate "reset" button for each slider.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the mouse cam (ctrl, alt) is great, but mouselook eg steering a vehicle sucks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|True, Thickbrick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still 100 times better than Blue Mars
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Eg. in EQ, you had 1st person, 3rd person, auto follow, follow at arbitrary vector offset, and others.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is just crap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah... slightly on topic ... just to mention it: save and load joystick settings would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, different follow modes can be done with scripts, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mouselook doesn't even merit taking behind the shed. Nothing less than nuking from orbit suffices.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thinkbrick: don't know. How?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's different follow cam scripts that can be used in attachments
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like the shift (3rd metakey) to look around from the av's head position
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, LSL scripts give better control over camera behavior than the actual UI. Heh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like tiny-cam
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Darn, I just can't type Thickbrick, sorry, typo to "Think" almost every time :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and move the head at the same time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does anyone have a free HUD that uses camera scripting?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I always try to orbit the camera with the middle mouse button after I've been using Blender
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you should try typing at 11am without having slept Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha Thick - Maya has the same cam UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Best thing about SL is that after an all-nighter, you don't look like something the cat dragged in.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I try to cam on the desktop too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova accepted your inventory offer.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I always try to orbit in youtube after a SL session ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oooh, thanks Jacek!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, maybe a windlight fog shader would help
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, why can't I spin the cam around when watching a video??
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli would not look up the actresses skirts, promise! >_>''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|camera got stuck duh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't promise for the actor <_<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually DVD with camera angles like Second Life™ would make famillies fight and cause divorces - I bet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one day
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kind of feasible when you shoot fisheye and process the viewport on play
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The issue of alleged privacy invasion using camera controls is material for 100 PhD theses in psychiatry. Really bizarre, but I guess YMMV.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|limited, but 3 cams recorded would give a lot of scope
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think let's wrap it up for this week. Any final UI intrusion you want to mention?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well ... in sl there is nothing to see if not so desired
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hover tips!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another thing to consider for toolbar may be active speakers list, but that kind of behaves borked for some 6 months now so it isn't much use any more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I HATE hover tips that obscure what I was trying to look at
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...but hover tips of course
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Thickbrick! (typed carefully :P)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hovertips indeed!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hola Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hola!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's kind of tricky, because when hovertips are done right, they are wonderful
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah hey Azwaldo, I'm afraid you've arrived just as we were ending
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|set tooltip delay in debug to something like 100 seconds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ending
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Azwaldo :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello Armin, everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what a late turn-up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought I might still find a few here; want to invite y'all to the XMPP Integration discussion on Sat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|think the tooltips are specially designed to cover what you actually want to see - not only in SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool, thanks Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Google Wave meets SL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's interesting, Az
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have a notecard with info, if anyone is interested
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, I've started a wave on that theme Azwaldo, but not getting much interest
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes please
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the discussion is a 11AM SLT, with a bot demo at 10AM SLT
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pass it to me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's call it done for this week. As a reminder, there is no meeting next week or the week after that, due to the holidays. Then on January 7, we will be having our meeting in OSGrid instead. I will post more details on the mailing list and send out a group notice, but you could make an account on osgrid.org and start dressing your avatar now, if you want. :D
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\0/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tooltips need a decent delay to avoid unwanted triggering, and they need a mode switch to toggle them from next to control to the frame and back.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Erk, unintelligible
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my 'idea' on Google wave 4D is more focused on having a 3D UI but avies are also part of it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tooltips should pop up on the frame if you want, instead of near the object they describe --- that can be used when they overlap something unwanted.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Righto Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when's McCabe done with his finals? (approx)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good point Morgaine - an option to show tooltips in the statusbar
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe will be done after this week, I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, Charlette; if you know others who might be interested in discussion XMPP please pass the NC along
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also on tooltips, in the mode where they display on the frame, this should be a pasteable box, so you can pick up the info into clipboard.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo: aren't you a member of AW Groupies? A good fraction of them would be interested!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|true, everything in UI should be copy enabled text
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|apropos XMPP ... I think it should be integrated into the viewer ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's one of the things I hate about X11, that so much of it can't be copied to clipboard.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Wave would be a good way to support chat and IMs in Second Life™
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, I am not. I have announced the discussion in Adv Scripters group a couple of times...will look up some AWG members and make invitations, too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|x11 is like 20 century Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo ... join us! We only bite on Sundays :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty, Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Scripters aren't really a great forum for Wave innovation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|who has invite powers in AW Groupies besides Sai?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Many in Groupies have tried Wave. I don't know of anyone who actually like it though. I love the *model*, hate the browser implementation. Loathe it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, I though it was an open group
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|did not even think of the AWG ; there is a Google Wave with quite a few participants who are going to be at the event
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thought*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|similar feeling Morgaine, but the backbone seems great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh "Contact Zha Ewry, Saijanai Kuhn or Tree Kyomoon for an invite"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A standalone implementation would be very interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure one could use even SL, there are many HTML front ends to it already
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is a lot of skepticism about potential in integrating, but i figure it is worth talking about...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| colspan="2"|''Azwaldo Villota copies, pastes names''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty, ThickAsABrick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I really don't want to bloat the viewer though. I don't think people truly realize where it's heading ... every additional increment adds bug probability, and it's combinatorial
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I mean instead of the current gen comms Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the comms we have are so bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I must go, see y'all in 2010...OSGrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, take care all! Happy holidays and bright new year to you all :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you Az, Merry Xmas and Happy New Year :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byeee jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same to you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay see you there :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you people, I'm off too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And see you on OSGrid :D
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Topics

2009-12-18T00:56:42Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* Fallback Topics (Low Priority) */ Removed this week's topic, added 3D Displays.

This is a running list of topics for the [[User Experience Interest Group]] discussions. If you have a topic request or suggestion, edit this page to add it at the end of the appropriate list. Try to keep the topic description concise, ideally a single line or sentence.

If you add a topic, please sign it with <code><nowiki>''(~~~~)''</nowiki></code>. That will be converted to your name and the current date, so we can easily see how recent a topic is. For example:

<nowiki>* Ways to make inventory easier to use. ''(~~~~)''</nowiki>

Becomes:

* Ways to make inventory easier to use. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC))''

== Topic Requests (High Priority) ==

These are topics that someone has requested to be discussed soon. When selecting the weekly topic, topic requests usually take priority over the fallback topics. If you add a request, please IM Jacek Antonelli to make sure she notices it.

* ''(Edit the page to add yours here!)''

If you have a topic request, edit this page to add it! Remember to keep it concise.

== Fallback Topics (Low Priority) ==

These are topic ideas that would be interesting to discuss, but don't need to be discussed soon.

* Meet on OSGrid to inspire discussion about interop/cross-grid issues. ''(Morgaine 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* What OpenSim creators want in a viewer. ''(Geneko 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* "Beyond SL": in what ways would viewers evolve if they weren't tied to SL? ''(Morgaine 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Integration with external services (Twitter, Flickr, online marketplaces, etc.). ''(Geneko 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Improving usability of online marketplaces, integrating them in the viewer. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Reducing the viewer's footprint / improving performance and usability on lower-end hardware. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Accessing SL with 3D Displays (stereoscopic and other methods). ''(Morgaine 00:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC))''
* Bugs / issues that affect a specific use case or demographic (builders, clothing creators, animators, models, shoppers, etc.). ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* ''(Edit the page to add yours here!)''

If you have a topic suggestion, edit this page to add it! Remember to keep it concise.

== Past Topics ==

Please see the [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts|transcripts page]] for topics discussed at past meetings.

== Topics Fanout ==

The following links factor out specific topics addressed at UXIG meetings:

* [[Client-side Scripting for HUDs and Widgets]]
* ''add more here''

[[Category:User Experience]]
__NOTOC__

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2009-12-11T01:01:26Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2009 */ December 10 - Open Topic

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10|December 10]] - Open Topic
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-10

2009-12-11T01:00:18Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript and brief summary

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for December 10, 2009.

'''Topic: Open Topic.'''

== Summary ==

We're going to have a meeting on OSGrid in the near future, so we discussed some issues related to OpenSim support and stability of various viewers, among other things.

== Links ==

* [http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlcKaO7Zo-3UdEx3N1NkWFVNd3lDUG4xdUFQQU9XNFE&hl=en Third Party Viewers spreadsheet]
* {{Jira|SNOW-390}} - Ping Interpolate Object Position doesn't work
* [http://www.monoxna.org/ MonoXNA]
* [http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/jabberimproxy/ jabberimproxy]

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Armin :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi peoples :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Morgaine :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and hi morgaines butterfly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Impru still rock solid. Not failed once in OSgrid, and only had one crash in SL way back. Think I have the logs.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's good to hear
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Dzonatas :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Dzonatas :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whoever coded this butterfly doesn't understand floating point error accumulation. It's now flying backwards, upside down, and underground.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova reloads''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looks fine to me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fine now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, let's start. Open topic today, but I wanted to start off talking about OSGrid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Last time we were brainstorming topics, Morgaine suggested we could have a weeking on OSGrid some week, so I'm thinking we can do that next week or the week after
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hang on ... UXIG without Charlette? Is this possible? ;-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Speak of the devil ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hahaha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Charlette :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot, woot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi everyone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't actually logged in to OSGrid yet myself. Is there a good location for us to hold a meeting?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Charlette
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I... have no idea.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm. the last time i was there there was only one region which was all the time stable ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: that might require a little more advertising, and perhaps a noddy HOWTO for those who haven't grid-hopped before.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably at one of OSGrid's public Plazas?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OSGrid is soo slow not sure what it runs on, but hardly a 'grid'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Yeah, that's why I want to start planning now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They're all usually empty, except Wright Plaza at meeting times, and Lbsa Plaza 100% of time in community room, which always has someone in it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe we should one day call an extra meeting on OSG
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah. gridhopping: before i forget: is there already something like a "ogp-slurl" ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, sadly Armin :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wright Plaza is rather laggy though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what would it look like? ogp://grid:port/sim/x/y/z ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|supper laggy and nothing loads eg freebies you pick, even pics
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Meerkat was the only viewer capable of TP'ing directly from a live SL session to a given open grid zone, I think.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Wright Plaza is a bad choice, it's especially designed to be heavy for testing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why do you say 'was'morg?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: because I heard that Meerkat was disbanding, and its devs coming to Imprudence. Which reminds me ... is that true?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova makes a coffee, brb''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not quite sure what the plan is now. One of the Meerkat devs, Patrick Sapinski, has been working on making a rebranded Imprudence with Meerkat features.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK I didn't realise, last download I did was a bit flake and it was to be 'optimised for speed on windows'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think at one point the plan was to either merge with Imprudence or rebase to Imprudence. But now it may be that Patrick is making a new viewer, separate from Meerkat. I'm not sure.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW none of the 'eport' functions worked and i was hoping to move some Second Life™ stuff across
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the weird thing I found with Meerkat was the dev anonimity and lack of docs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Those would be good things to report in the forums, Charlette. We can't fix what we don't know about.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|besides good compilations/setup there is nothing on the wiki
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I loved the MK cross-grid teleport and the import/export. But I damn didn't like the bugs. They never stabilized that code.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the MK cross-grid teleport depends on a working relog feature, which is quite tricky
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|very true, Meerkat must have a very small user group in Second Life™ too, so not much error reporting (BTW some of it was not true on the MK forums, stated as not working, but problems didn't rep for me)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup the relog didn't work in the last MK I have
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well if you look e.g. at ahern you'll see a few MK users and a few more emerald users
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually Morg the Windows builds of MK are quite stable, but...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Azwaldo, glad you could make it :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|howdy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|greetings, All
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What worries me incredibly is that the stability of Imprudence in OSgrid might be due to the 1.22 base. The only other relatively stable viewer in OSgrid is Hippo, which is also 1.22-based. All other viewers crash there, some in seconds, some in a few minutes, some in an hour, but they all crash (in Linux). And I'd hate to see Imprudence start crashing when it goes to a 1.23 base.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. We'll test it, though, and try to fix it if it crashes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any idea why Morg? OpenJPEG, Media, those are flaky in Second Life™ too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm. lets see at the meeting at osgrid how stable imprudence 1.3 is :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like sculpties that don't load OK and have these weird spikes to the far extremes of the prim dimensions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: don't know why, as I'm usually not debugging when I'm there, but trying to attend a meeting :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we have a 'date' for SOG meet?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: if you want to poke out early 1.3 binaries for us to test there, I'd be happy to try them. Or I could grab a git copy and build.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would be pointing the finger at the OpenSource media, JPEG and voice as the main part to debug
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|15 Alt Viewers listed at SL Wiki (!) So many toys...so little time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these fail on LL grid too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of those 15 aren't worth the time to download
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenJPEG has memory leak, certainly --- I've poked the KDU libs into Imprudence's bin/ and lib/ to avoid using it, else I don't last more than an hour.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Here's our viewers spreadsheet, by the way --- http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlcKaO7Zo-3UdEx3N1NkWFVNd3lDUG4xdUFQQU9XNFE&hl=en
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Feel free to update it if you have new news on a viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, I should change 1.2.0 to 1.2.1 for Impru
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm, the Second Life wiki could use a list like this.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the Snowglobe 1.2.0 (2967) Test Build used OpenJPEG: 1.3.0 and never loaded sculpties for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Meerkat on LL grid has the same texture problems as Emerald too - gray and clouds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Dzon, there's no MonoVida Studio on that spreadsheet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure using KDU, slvoice and Fmod in the viewer would improve the OSG stability too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe, Charlette.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Thickbrick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No need for FMOD in OSgrid for stability. I'm using OpenAL+gstreamer with Impru, and audio + video work perfectly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Thick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Thickbrick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just want to check: anyone have any UX topics you want to talk about? Otherwise, I'm fine with continuing this discussion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ummm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its a great topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wanted to folow up on last week's discussion, in case someone was wondering what "ping interpolate positions" does
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't have any UX topic in mind currently.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(the answer being nothing: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-390 )
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is productive Jacek, especially in view of Imp corossgrid support
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thick: look on the bright side, if it doesn't do anything then it probably doesn't have any bugs :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good to know, Thickbrick, thanks for investigating that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is the plan for Impru to move towards easy two-way hopping between grids?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what would "Ping Interpolate" be expected to do?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: If/when we get logout to work, yes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UX == User eXperience?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo: Yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As in UXIG -- Interest Group
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For those that weren't hear when I mentioned it -- in a week or two, we will have an UXIG meeting held on OSGrid (osgrid.org) instead of here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't have any UX issues, here to learn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: is logout a prerequisite because LL code isn't reentrant?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To try it out and talk about UX issues related to OpenSim / cross-grid compatibility
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Yes. Meerkat's grid-hopping is just logout+login to new grid. There's a lot of stuff to clean up when leaving a grid. :\
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|did you hear about Benjamin Linden taking over "Issue Tracker Aware" (JIRA awareness group) he hasn't posted a word yet but previous owner anounced him as new owner now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll have to plant a notice here about it, with directions.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talking of UXIG history
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: frmo the (broken) code, it tries to show physical objects where they are now, as ooposed to where they were <ping> seconds ago. But you normally don't care about "now," since they may have collided with something and changed direction on the server by now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK Thick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: "...most of [15 alt viewers] aren't worth the time to download" - that was my hunch, why I hoped to make this mtg...have rec'd several questions about Alt Viewers, recently.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm, could this be (used for) the "fake avatar movement at client side" we were talking about?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|These are the viewers I have listed to check out, myself: Emerald, Meerkat, Imprudence, Snowglobe. Have only used Hippo, other than SL client.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: I was just thinking that if logout is too hairy to sort out properly, a stopgap measure is to ignore the old grid, and it'll eventually log you out itself. Of course, that's not going to work if the code isn't reentrant so you can't use separate data for the new grid.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it makes sense Azwaldo eg Ajax - a good idea but dead for over a year and LL wiki has very old descriptions too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about the new LL white/black lists???
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko, yes, but only if you add to it client-side input handling and probalby some basic collisions. Otherwise it only makes ruber-banding worse.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo, not sure if you were here when I gave our spreadsheet URL, but more viewers to try there --- http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlcKaO7Zo-3UdEx3N1NkWFVNd3lDUG4xdUFQQU9XNFE&hl=en
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty, Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Everything in the SL viewer assumes that there is one grid, only one login per session, and everything receive at login (inventory, etc.) will be valid for the whole session. :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the spec for viewers was the main focus at LL going by the OH brownbag recordings posted on the blog
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer comparison spreadsheet: nice...was hoping something like this was available
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: ew, not even singletons? Just plain globals all over?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe LL verification process could reveal some definitive infor for our needs to
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are some singletons, but also lots of globals, and very few of the core things were designed to be deconstructed except at exit.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova nods''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sympathies :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|did modular (hehe) ever attempt to make any of the viewer code modular at all?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice one :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or is it just a buzzword remaining from the proxie apps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe, no. I don't think they have attempted to improve the viewer core at all, just to bolt new things on.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup same impression here Jacek, no eveidence of anything modular to me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I thought they may be quietly working on something 'grand'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can't say I blame them. Must be sheer horror to refactor that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe may know more havind done some work on their code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"they" being LL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|modular Thick (Emerald)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, ModularSystems, and Emerald team
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed. I wish I could rewrite the viewer from scratch, but I don't have the time, skills, or motivation to do it. Working with the current code is like walking through hip-deep swamp muck, but creating a new replacement viewer is like climbing a huge mountain. :-|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I bet :-(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it really is time to build a multithreaded Second Life™ viewer, but the new code at LL SL09 (SL2) may make the effort pointless for now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snowglobe and 2.0 are multithreaded, but that was just sort of organically gronw on top of what's there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the NDA initiative at LL didn't help at all in the last few months
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well Dzon here has taken a less "mountain climbing" route, but grabbing only part of the viewer and treating it as a library.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wish LL would at least tell us how much it's going to change. Is it just a new UI layout and such? Or did is it a major refactoring/rewrite?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mystical Demina is working on a new viewer, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how many people would be needed to start from scratch - assuming everybody involved has a RL job to do? 15? 20?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I heard earlier that SL09 will have the plugin API too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Windows only though, uses XNA or whatever that MS gaming system is called
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|precisely Jacek, otherwise dev time and design effort are so likely wasted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Windows only? DX
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's seem to have been some recent developments in XNA on mono
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Xenki - a viewer for OpenSim users (might be Windows only)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, Xenki
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mystical is a Window dev. Although I think he said he would see how it could be migrated.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is that Mystical Cookie of the Mystitool?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|( http://www.monoxna.org/ (
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i am organizing an event on Sat, Dec 19th, to discuss the potential in integrating XMPP with SL applications.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mystical Demina
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|AH sorry
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mystical Cookie is MystiTool, i think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In Groupies
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and verry missed for now hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hope to encourage content developers to participate, not a Google Wave promotion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"http://www.monoxna.org/" seems a bit like MeToo has an ambitious blog for now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo: have you tried Dahlia's Jabber plugin for gridproxy?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| colspan="2"|''Azwaldo Villota makes note of plugin...(No)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/jabberimproxy/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: I have no idea how fully implemented it is, but it seesm actively developed: http://code.google.com/p/monoxna/source/list
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty, Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Azwaldo Villota:
| style="white-space:normal;"|must away. cheers All
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Azwaldo: Groupies use that plugin extensively when SL group IM is dead. We have a permanent Jabber conference at awg@conference.jabber.org --- most days it's 100% silent though, since SL still mostly works. Most days :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I ment the Blog link not the code Morg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Azwaldo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Azwaldo, tale care :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW I want to make something of [ https://wave.google.com/wave/?pli=1#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BXfIgCTq6A ] to discuss Wave based comms for VW, so IM me if you interested at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even if you just want to sharpen you Wave skills hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: that wouod be an interesting discussion
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I have to go. Any last comments?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wave offers all the 'toolbox' etc to make it possible I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nah. Thanks Jacek :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|next week meeting on osgrid?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've not looked at the Wave SDK Charlette. Is it "OK" according to comments?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we all throw a few cents worth of discussion into it maybe some Google people would get involved too - they failed on Lively sooo bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Either next week or the week after. I will announce early in the week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wave apparently has the Toolbox to intergrate into 'anything'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Topics

2009-12-10T10:08:53Z

Jacek Antonelli: Removed the topic we covered last week

This is a running list of topics for the [[User Experience Interest Group]] discussions. If you have a topic request or suggestion, edit this page to add it at the end of the appropriate list. Try to keep the topic description concise, ideally a single line or sentence.

If you add a topic, please sign it with <code><nowiki>''(~~~~)''</nowiki></code>. That will be converted to your name and the current date, so we can easily see how recent a topic is. For example:

<nowiki>* Ways to make inventory easier to use. ''(~~~~)''</nowiki>

Becomes:

* Ways to make inventory easier to use. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC))''

== Topic Requests (High Priority) ==

These are topics that someone has requested to be discussed soon. When selecting the weekly topic, topic requests usually take priority over the fallback topics. If you add a request, please IM Jacek Antonelli to make sure she notices it.

* ''(Edit the page to add yours here!)''

If you have a topic request, edit this page to add it! Remember to keep it concise.

== Fallback Topics (Low Priority) ==

These are topic ideas that would be interesting to discuss, but don't need to be discussed soon.

* Meet on OSGrid to inspire discussion about interop/cross-grid issues. ''(Morgaine 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* What OpenSim creators want in a viewer. ''(Geneko 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Reducing UI presence to improve immersion. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* "Beyond SL": in what ways would viewers evolve if they weren't tied to SL? ''(Morgaine 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Integration with external services (Twitter, Flickr, online marketplaces, etc.). ''(Geneko 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Improving usability of online marketplaces, integrating them in the viewer. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Reducing the viewer's footprint / improving performance and usability on lower-end hardware. ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* Bugs / issues that affect a specific use case or demographic (builders, clothing creators, animators, models, shoppers, etc.). ''([[User:Jacek Antonelli|Jacek Antonelli]] 00:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC))''
* ''(Edit the page to add yours here!)''

If you have a topic suggestion, edit this page to add it! Remember to keep it concise.

== Past Topics ==

Please see the [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts|transcripts page]] for topics discussed at past meetings.

== Topics Fanout ==

The following links factor out specific topics addressed at UXIG meetings:

* [[Client-side Scripting for HUDs and Widgets]]
* ''add more here''

[[Category:User Experience]]
__NOTOC__

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2009-12-04T01:54:48Z

Jacek Antonelli: /* 2009 */ December 3 - Reducing Perceived Lag

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03|December 3]] - Reducing Perceived Lag
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-12-03

2009-12-04T01:53:18Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript, no summary

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for December 03, 2009.

'''Topic: Reducing Perceived Lag.'''

== Summary ==

No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please edit this page to add one.

== Links ==

* {{Jira|SVC-3895}} - Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS
* {{Jira|SNOW-375}} - Detached Communicator: Chat/IM/Contacts windows "thinking outside the box" in a separate process/plugin

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay then, let's start.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Today we're talking about reducing perceived lag -- that is, making the viewer experience feel responsive even if there's lag going on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As a counterpart to actually making it less laggy, heh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have the feeling i lag less since i replaced libhasnothingtodowithlag.so by an heavyly opimized version ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about anything to make sure chat is in order?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha Garn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hal Klaxon suggested this topic a couple weeks ago. He was specifically interested in making movement feel less laggy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover tilts head''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Aimee and Morgaine, you're just in time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova waves quietly''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're talking about reducing perceived lag in the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover woofs softly @ Morgaine and Aimee''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At the moment, regarding movement
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well as this isn't a 3DFPS or such, would it not make more sense for the client to be authoritive over their coordinates instead of the server? that way rubberbanding would more or less done with.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure if it makes sense to cueeue chat and delay it even more, but the lines could be made chronological
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Garn: woof! :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whoa! Lots of people today! So what did I miss?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're just starting, Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What?!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then what was happening in the past 35 minutes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I demand a transcript! <g>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was rather late, heh. Sorry about that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry about lateness, a very interesting legal question came up at Merov's
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we waited for you Geneko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good point Govern, but we would all see different workds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ehh... *blushes*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|legal question mhmm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Govern: That's true, if the viewer told the server where the agent was, instead of the server telling the viewer, then your own movement could appear less laggy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although it would complicate things, especially with regard to physics and collision
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Server always has to be authoritative, else the potential for abuse is enormous
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some peeps say phys could be client side
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette/Jacek: would cause a different kind of lag, like you might not notice I've left if you're lagging. or might end up seeing me move a few seconds later but all in all everything would/should catch up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What kind of abuse are you talking about.. I come from doom and quake where the server has to be authoritive for fairness but this isn't that kind of world.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Physics can certainly be assisted client side (and it should be, as clients have the power) ... but it should never be authoritative.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah - world out of wack for various users Govern
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Govern: this isn't one specific kind of world. It's whatever people want to use it for.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe it would lag less (I think) if phys went clientside
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|quake-like games demonstrate that having non-authoritative client side physics helps a lot.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially on the good machines
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but quake was like single user game connected to the server's world
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I never tried multiuser quake, but don't remember anyone complaining too much
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. I think for practical reasons, the authoritative position/physics stuff will have to stay on the server side. But there could be ways to use client-side physics to improve the feel of it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they would if the servers was taking breaks to synchronously serialize mono assemblies frmo time to time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(they would complain)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The way I see it, to solve or give the illusion of a less laggy world. the rubber banding and or not being able to move is the issue. that from what I understhand is the sim's hardward and or connection not having the ability to provide enough processing time or bandwidth to all the people within the sim. or shares sims.. to give the illusion of less lag, the slowwalkin/rubber banding needs to be addressed in some way.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|guess a smoother world less suitable to FPS like tasks would be better than lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shared*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One of the issues currently is that the viewer doesn't tell the server "I'm moving forward starting at time X", it essentially relays your input (arrow key presses) to the server, then the server tells you what happened.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So you don't start moving until the server receives your input. Which in laggy situations, could lead to a noticeable delay between when you press the key and when you start moving.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah OK Jacek, I thought it dealt wit posidion/direction changes not at higher level than arrow keys
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually it does.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For example, mouse steering, which changes your direction without being constrained by speed of keyboard rotation.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But that doesn't change the fact you don't start moving until the server gets your input.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sending keystrokes seems the wrong (buggy/latent) way of doing it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if mouse uses messages instead of raw data, maybe one could test which format is best
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not to mention that it's rather limited. For example, if the protocol is only limited to key presses (which it is not, expect for practical purposes), I can't do a "click here on the ground to move to that direction" aka Japanese/Korean MMO styled input scheme.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If the viewer told the server *when* you started to move forward, it might be possible to forward-project to the current time to see where you are now. Then the viewer could start you walking forward immediately while it waited for feedback from the server. It'd be really messy, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hopefully once we all get our new Petabyte harddrives we'll have enough space to store the entire asset database on our computers, easing the overhead on LL servers and thus making the world less laggy?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not if you live in China (which I don't)...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|smoothing of position data would help (?)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think it was done that way to avoid dealing in the viewer with all the special cases where a key doesn't mean movement (sitting, move lock, etc.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mao Tse Tung never lagged
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's just hope for quantum entanglement based network connections, so we can transfer data faster than the speed of light.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: I think "rubberbanding" is kind of a primitive version of smoothing position data.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha what is the avs get entangled on top of a poseball
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha some smoothing Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1 TB drives only cost $50 right now. You could store all the assets and terrain info you ever come across in regular travels comfortably on that, if only the viewer cache weren't a pile of crap.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's true! Have you noticed that you don't just immediately snap back but there's a rubber band effect?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: by smoothing you mean averaging between the authoritative and current position?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally, I don't think there is much that can be practically done to make movement more responsive in laggy situations. But there are other aspects of the viewer experience that could be improved. Let's talk about those for a while, shall we?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|think you are right Gen - the av keeps walking once started, but pails to stop till it gets 'corrected' inworld
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's just F'ing unbelieveable that we're having to reload out own home zones a dozen times each day every time we port back home.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are you shitting me the asset database/textures etc are under a terabyte? that can't be.. O.o
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Govern: no no, only one person's typical travels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|excuse my french...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And apparantly there's no way to know when server slows down, so rubber banding can come quite unexpected to client...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|somoothing in a way of having averaged positions based on data and predictive next step
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The entire SL asset store is around 400 TB, but you don't visit a significant part of it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's something else I want to talk about w/r/t/ interpolating velocity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Geneko: True. For example, when the sim is suffering from time dilation, the viewer would have to figure out how fast you would be moving, or it would rubber band even more than it does now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Err, I was talking about now...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about having a proxy which pretends the physics to the client and does the actual movement when the sever is responsive?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Armin: I thought we already do have one of these.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Inside the viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well I could store 0.5%.. on my just installed NAS..! and I thought it was big O.o --- anyway sorry back to the subject.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can try turning Network->Interpolate Objects off in the Advanced menu.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's hear Geneko's comment about interpolating velocity, then move on. (Was that it, Gen?)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway, yeah, w/r/t/interpolating velocity and crossing region boundaries...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The viewer already does speculative movement based on heurists and interpolation, otherwise your flying would be appallingly jerky owing to Internet RTT randomness.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's just dead reckoning, no friction/collisions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1- If you ride a vehicle, the vehicle freezes at boundary but the viewer continue to interpolate for it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2- if you don't connect soon enough your avatar could be interpolated off-world while your agent is still frozen at region boundary.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can be quite disconcerting.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I never tried simcrossings without velocity interpolate - worth a go to see what it is like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Server interpolated movement if you cross boundary - but only if not riding vehicle.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oof, yeah. I remember that from my sailing days. If you had a bad sim crossing, your viewer could send you spinning off into outer space, heh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eeeep, 8000 ms ping sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|s/interpolated/interpolates/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could it be done better? like built in latency one gets to adjust till if feels good (or viewer optimimised at all times)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i got stuck in outer space cuz i tried to TP with phantom AV on lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the way you fx glitchy sound - add latency
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence 1.2.1 really rocks, btw, well done gals and guys :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, that I want to talk about too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha more lag - but well measured kind
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anybody knwos what "ping interpolate object positions" does?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|idk... but I think it's an alternative to velocity interpolating
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's switch over to another aspect of reducing perceived lag -- chat lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Apparantly IRC doesn't have server echoing your chat message.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nothing you can do about server taking a nap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Jacek, chat out of oreder?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or more likely... UDP packets traveling on different routes, one of them happening to have lots of traffic on there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Govern Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Once upon a time. even if you were disconnected from your sim or the sim was locked up/crashing chatting in groups still worked reliably. I notice these days thats not the case, even often being booted out of chat group sessions because of lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. Chat out of order is one of the biggest problems with chat lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could it be queued up when the lag is bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There have been proxies to make chat appear in-client when the server is actually jabber based.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right now, I think chat is displayed in the order it arrived. I'm pretty sure they used to queue it, but that could lead to chat *never* showing up in bad lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is, if you always waited for chat A to arrive before showing chat B and C. If chat A gets lost on the way...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when chat lag hits it would be better to be more behind than out of wack the way it is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hard to fix once it gets out of order
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suppose you could have a slight delay (e.g. wait up to 5 seconds for A to arrive)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rather than a permanent wait
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thought about that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|probably would be noticable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Another possible solution would be to retroactively insert earlier chat if they arrived. But that could be really, really confusing.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one would have to decouple the "when" and the "where" of chat display. When B and C arrive, display them raight away, once A follows, insert it before B.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jabber uses tcp, i think, so it wouldn't be so out of order
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about laggy connection on one group member lagging the whole group IM???
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: Not to mention requiring modification of protocol.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one could turn on a 56k modem and stuff up a group
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|intentional lag griefing wow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lets all fall back in time together
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|groups could have non-ll servers, but the client would need to know how to connect. that is kinda the discussion going on Aw groupies right now =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think delaying lines until previous lines arrive can work if the mac delay is dependant on the current ping-sim value
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*max delay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|clientside latency fix would be the only way to do it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That assumes the server receives chat messages in order.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I guess one can try.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the server's order is "the order"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not necessarily.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Out of order :P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the laggy chat would be fixed (optionally) by introducing ping time based latency and a queue
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thickbrick, for chat from different residents, yes. But what if text of a silnle one already arrives out of order at the server?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow I just go hit with chat lag myself
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*single
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Boroondas: Then there's nothing that can be done at the client side witht he current protocols.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In theory, the message protocol could include a timestamp of when it was sent, which would allow messages to be ordered either on the server or the client.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You'd have to trust the client's timestamp, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the messages are timestamped and could be spat out from a queue at some delayed time - all sounds like more lag though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think sender -> server out of oder problems are pretty rare
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's no way to know that for sure though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People could cheat at quiz games by having their client say they said the answer 5 seconds before they did *grins*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-è
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*:-P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one could test it by sanding clientside timestamps alone
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and see where it kicks in
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's also the issue of scripts that listen to chat. You'd have to delay chat to them too, to wait for things to come in order.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even sending atomic clock timestamps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|listening scripts are less critical most of the time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then you might have time drift, clock adjustment, leap seconds, ... this is muddy waters.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow, my chat just got lagged.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, this sim is a great place to talk about chat lag, heh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really wish people used channels for stupid messages like AO ON
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure the LSL listen lags all chat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette: A small bit, yes. Not as much as normal network conditions do, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Local Chat based control shouldn't be used
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|besides the fact that I don't care whose AO was turned on or freebie radar started, it all is a load
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. The best (IMO) solution I've heard so far would be to have a short waiting period in the client, which varies based on network condition, to allow out of order chat to come in.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|considering the sad state of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 all these small loads don't really matter.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek; yeah I agree
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jacek: sounds good
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd rather have the client reorder chat afterwards. Don't like artificial delays.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if the delay is long enough to noticeable then it's already failed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chat buffer wouldn't use much resource at all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the delay and the server's lag, heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the server isn't lagging all the time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right. That's why the delay period varies with the network status. "Good weather" = short delay. "Bad weather" = long delay.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it is based on packets dropped?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That might be part of it. Also ping time and stats sent from the server.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't think it's a good idea to base it on ping time. It would be adding another level of delay over network and rendering.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is a point Gen, network and rendering are interleaved
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, ChatFromSimulator doesn't seem to have a timestamp
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there a timestamp/serial# in the message protocol?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is the timestamp purely clientside (eg the IMs have viewing timestamp instead of sent)???
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think so.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a JIRA on that and nobody seems to suggest solutions to the useless IM timestamps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, I think so to. Offline IMs have their own extra timestamp in the message text, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even emailed IMs are a mess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|time for the big messaging overhaul
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Poof.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LL seem to have hacked everything together without care for what 'real' systems work like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I've heard of this rumor that routers prefer TCP, is that true?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bit like kiddies at home who never learnt the wheel was invented a long time ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How do you mean "prefer" ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Giving priority to, dropping packets from UDP, etc...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that sounds right Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah. I dunno. I wouldn't be surprised if they did, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|TCP is supposed to be reliable, where UDP isn't so some @#$@!#% ISPs throtle UDP
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When they have to drop packages, a lot will drop UDP ones first. "Priority", I don't think so ... first come, first routed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UPD has no data integrity - so I'd drop if first
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:28]
| colspan="2"|''Thickbrick Sleaford can't use skype in the afternoon''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Like some @*($&@*(#! ISPs intercept NXDOMAIN responses and send you a pretty page full of laggy ads instead...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scared to use Skype after dark
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Worse if said interception is done on the country-level gateway. (It's been done.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ick.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Must ... use ... Skype --- otherwise you're cheating the NSA out of their rightful snoop input.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|NSA are listening on our chat now (hello NSA dude)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bleh, I think we just got way off topic.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I think let's wrap it up for this week. Any final comments?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, laggy sound.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Especially under Linux.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://bash.org/?88575
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|regulated server load sharing (hoggs) would help all lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Where you have OpenAL -> ALSA -> PulseAudio -> ALSA -> 100ms mix buffer -> Hardware...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|give each av the same server time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or user tools to measure and police load
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like UI sounds, and would rather them be buffered on the sound server, but I don't think OpenAL would let me.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sound from objects usually lags a lot more than 100ms, even when the sound is suposedly cached already.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess sound effects from objects get to enjoy all the lag of network events, plus the lag of the sound server. Yay for them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|plus the lag of sequential UDP fetching
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and decoding to wave
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fun times.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i.e. if a packet is out of order, the whole fetch stalls.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They are using UDP fetches for something where order matters? Whee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've seen a lot of 'out of order' packets in logs lately
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same as textures
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why should order of asset packets matter?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess textures suffer more, because they need to be decoded a lot during the fetch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, we could just send every UDP packet twice in some random order, or maybe thrice. that would help
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|=)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This sim is a great example for lag. I wonder when they last restarted it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is the old ihave/sendme protocol of uucp that i never heard a complaint about
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|probably easier to just reimplement sounds it as an http cap (if that really is a significant lag factor)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some day they'll finish HTTP texture fetching. Then they can use it for other assets as well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Woot, SL over UUCP!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's probably one of those things where having a viewer_opensim working solution would help saw some lindens to implement it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(viewer + opensim_
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bleh, I can't type. I blame lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lag is an issue of load and open-sim never has production level population loads
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Opensim's been stress tested to 100 avs recently, which is pretty amazing considering it's alpha.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or anything like the machines/connections to test lag for what I've seen - lag, really bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(But people won't wear 100+ prims in OpenSim...)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|try thousends Gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, is there anything else about -perceived- lag?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thousands*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah - headspace
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence 1.2.1 is rock solid in Opensim under Linux 32-bit btw. I've been using it in the 30+ person OSgrid meetings, it's 100% stable.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: how abotu low fps affecting typing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(client side fps, that is)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, I wouldn't care about 3D FPS, if UI FPS weren't the same.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thinkbrick: It doesn't, except pressing enter to open chat bar initially.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I get 30-40 FPS and lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like here today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really low fps makes typing hard(er)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|over 40 FPS and bouts of lag
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Decoupling input events from rendering FPS would definitely help. As would decoupling UI rendering from world rendering.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's because networking and all input events are handled synchronously in the render loop. One of the biggest problems of the LL viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Most games handle it that way.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't see that changin anytime soon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It makes my head hurt just thinking about all the work it would take to untangle everything. X(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think there's one that doesn't, which was a rhythem game...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is why when your rendering FPS drops to 1 FPS, your sim ping becomes 1000 ms. They're totally coupled.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all pre multithread machines
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bad design
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|synchronous threads avoid the need for locks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Easier design.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Second Life™ is a museum of code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even so on the servers, probably.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dzonatas: can your multi-window patch be used to composit the windows back into SL window?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a cracked coffee bean under a key is causing me some lag now hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, but that is in the Studio version
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Charlette, don't put such stuff under your keys.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, keyboards don't eat coffee beans, silly. You're supposed to pour the coffee drink right on it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzon, what was your Jira link again?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jacek: But it does!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Bor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|zen is the only way to fix perceived lag - just chill out
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yw
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzonatas: I guess you still can't escape the fact that window is used for 3d. If you composit into it you end up losing any (output) latency advantage
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Thickbrick Sleaford:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's one way of reducing perceived lag... shoot the user with a tranquilizer dart when it starts to get laggy, so they won't perceive it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmmm ... needs new hardware, though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a patch to render floaters outside of the main viewer 3D window?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the hardware can composite layers, but there is no standard between linux and windows to do it by hardware
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or reverse
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:53]
| colspan="2"|''Boroondas Gupte meant the tranquilizer''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's what monovida does
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i started to move the map outside in its own windows, but then SL code has OpenGL written in a way that prevents shared resources. OpenGL can be multi-window multi-thread, but SL doesn't allow it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow, we like to talk about rendering out of 3D, nice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aww
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|poo^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Boroondas Gupte:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so MonoVida uses Gtk for all windows, and embeds the viewer in GtkGL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How hard is it to re-write it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dzon: what is LL doing that prevents multi-window GL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have gotten the map to work in another window, but it is so buggy because of how SL setup their pointers that assume a single instance
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, so just not coded to expect it, kk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like the rest of the rocket grade code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It doesn't HAVE to be multi-thread to be multi-window...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So "single instance" means single instance of OpenGL context?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Dzonatas Sol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are we though?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whoo, I'm short. ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thx all ㋡
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, let's adjourn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good chat, thanks all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care everyone, see you next week!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tnx Jacek, tc :-)
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts

2009-11-28T06:59:01Z

Jacek Antonelli: November 26 - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)

Transcripts from the weekly [[User Experience Interest Group]] meetings, in ''reverse chronological order'':

== 2009 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26|November 26]] - Open Topic (informal due to Thanksgiving holiday)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19|November 19]] - Future meeting topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12|November 12]] - Leaked SL 2.0 Email
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05|November 5]] - Open Topic: Random Ramblings
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-29|October 29]] - Open Topic: Third Party Viewer Policy; Misc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-22|October 22]] - Machinima Bugs & Features (Continued)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-15|October 15]] - Machinima Features ''(summary wanted)''
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-08|October 8]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-10-01|October 1]] - Open Topic: Skins
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-24|September 24]] - Menu Reorganization
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-17|September 17]] - Useful Advanced Menu Features
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-10|September 10]] - Open Topic: Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-09-03|September 3]] - Multigrid / Intergrid Usability
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-27|August 27]] - Open Topic: SL Viewer 2.0; LLMedia Plugins.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20|August 20]] - Featurettes Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13|August 13]] - Open Topic: Cross-project coordination, Managing Codebase, Easter Eggs, Teleport Screen Pastimes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-06|August 6]] - Griefer-Proofing the Viewer
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-30|July 30]] - Improving Usability of the Build Tools
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-23|July 23]] - Build Tool Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-16|July 16]] - Misc. UI Bugs
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-09|July 9]] - Customizable Toolbars, Menus, and Shortcuts
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-07-02|July 2]] - Gathering UI Metrics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-25|June 25]] - Viewer Modes
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-18|June 18]] - Camera Tracking / Gesture Recognition
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-11|June 11]] - Misc. (Unicode; Cache; Trans-grid Inventory; Permissions)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-06-04|June 4]] - Future Topic Brainstorming
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-28|May 28]] - Inventory (Tabs and Misc. Features)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-21|May 21]] - Misc. (Usable Virtual Spaces, UI Bare Essentials)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-14|May 14]] - Misc. (Magnetic Floaters, Chat Tabs)
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-05-07|May 7]] - Strategies for Managing Adult Content
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-30|April 30]] - The Camera
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23|April 23]] - The Communicate Window
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16|April 16]] - Extending Picks and the Profile
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-09|April 9]] - Reducing Frustration
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-02|April 2]] - Detachable Windows
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-26|March 26]] - Avatar Radars
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19|March 19]] - Product Vendors, Shopping Previews
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-12|March 12]] - Miscellaneous
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-05|March 5]] - Inworld Interactions, Nametags, Pie Menu Extensions
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-26|February 26]] - Combo Buttons, Pie Menus, Mouse Interaction
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19|February 19]] - Collapsible User Interface Elements
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-14|February 14]] - Group chat about IMs and avatar tags
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-12|February 12]] - Half-baked / Hard to understand parts of the UI
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05|February 05]] - Walk Animations & Animation Overrides
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-29|January 29]] - Non-overlapping User Interface
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-22|January 22]] - Alternative Input Devices
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-15|January 15]] - Minimap
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-01-08|January 08]] - Notifications; Ubuntu / Canonical notifications design

== 2008 ==
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18|December 18]] - Avatar scanners; Animation overrides; Other miscellaneous topics
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-11|December 11]] - Inventory, filters, managing attachments; Refining and presenting UXIG ideas to Lindens, use of the wiki
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-04|December 04]] - Open topic, rehash of previous meetings, chaos.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-27|November 27]] - Building, tools, permissions.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-20|November 20]] - Accessibility for the visually impaired; plus many other topics.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-13|November 13]] - HUDs, client-side visual interfaces to scripts, etc.
* [[User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06|November 06]] - HUDs; LL's announced partnership with Big Spaceship

See [[Resident Experience Team Office Hours Transcripts]] for transcripts of older meetings, prior to the establishment of the [[User Experience Interest Group]].

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26

2009-11-28T06:57:39Z

Jacek Antonelli: New transcript

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for November 26, 2009.

'''Topic: Open Topic.'''

== Summary ==

It was Thanksgiving holiday in the US, so Jacek was gone. The discussion was very informal and mostly off topic.

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gotta go, dinner time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can someone send me a notecard with the transcript afterwards?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|enjoy Real Life™ Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bon appetite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe bon appetite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|midnight dinner - hmmm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I bet the family roasted a furry and Jacek couldn't say no
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe a bird, one hopes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have to go AFK for a few min - coffeee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm, think i have to activate a different group
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just had roaste chicken at school. Wasn't satisifying.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|me too? I'm just beng a shit as usual
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does one's meat preference change when you change the spicies of fur on your av?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not me. I'm always an omnivore.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm, let me check
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have a giggle http://current.com/items/91120515_thats-gay-no-homo.htm
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not going to lose to you in tail bushyness!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i feel like vegetarian now
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and there seems to be a certain smell
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been vegeterian for 30 years
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK stove needs supevision for a minute
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, the script is in debug mode, you spam my screen with ownersay
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He he he hee.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, i stopped working on it over a year ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dont remember what to change
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It looks fun though.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i love the skulls best
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So quiet.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one sec
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax gave you touch for stink.3.5.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(nm)....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax gave you spraybullet.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok you put both in a prim ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and dont mind the ugly code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''Object: stink on touch active -4712''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't see the ugly code.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Priveliged: ["Segiru Xiao", "Nexus Zhangsun", "GoodBoyJay Fall", "Black Feuerstein", "Robbiboy Rossini", "Creepy Triangle"]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Banned: ["Geneko Nemeth"]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Banned: [""]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Priveliged: ["Segiru Xiao", "Nexus Zhangsun", "GoodBoyJay Fall", "Black Feuerstein", "Robbiboy Rossini", "Creepy Triangle", "Geneko Nemeth"]
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bullet prepared
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth touched Armin Weatherwax's tail''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''spraybullet: Bullet ready''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bullet going to be shooted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| colspan="2"|''spraybullet: Bullet listening''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41#00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#<1.00000, 1.00000, 1.00000>#<1.00000, 1.00000, 1.00000>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm, i think i made it full perm - no?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one sec
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax gave you touch for stink.3.5.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| colspan="2"|''Object: stink on touch active -4712''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some persons are hardcoded, think you want to remove them :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, I won't want a stinky tail anyway.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe its good for something else
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean, while I'm not sure what species should I go for, skunk is mostly outside my element.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... this is why I never use the "replace outfit" option.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eep nobody else turned up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I used to save complete av at first, but gave up because of copies and no-trans
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, we didn't start to talk aboult all that serious things, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one would need symlinks/shortcuts/aliases to make it feasible to save
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Lindens had that covered in Viewer 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it ever comes out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats why i stopped using my AO - i have no copy animations in it ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aliases?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aliases would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah that would be good, showing attributes would be nice to have too - especially to find things and clean up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You might have remembered that Lindens had community translators translate two new words, Look and Ensemble.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not that I'm in the translators group anymore.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or to begin with.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a question you may be able to tell me about; the snapshot floater - could it especially the thumbnail be resizable?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people taking pics (not me) apparently use it to make hi-rez snapshots
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm, I'm not sure but why not ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the thumbnail is too small to see if they captured what they want
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it corresponded to the actual window you see when you change rez/proportions and showed the border of what you are capturing on the main viewport it could be a lot more practical
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially if it were to be 'live' and recorded video on top of it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You can have full-screen previews too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|apparently some 'photographers' hehe use it to make portrait etc pics defining higher res than screen at times
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like when you want a 2048 x 1560 pic for good quality printout
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Man that is annoying.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bullet prepared
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth touched Armin Weatherwax's tail''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''spraybullet: Bullet ready''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bullet going to be shooted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| colspan="2"|''spraybullet: Bullet listening''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41#00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#<0.00000, 1.00000, 0.00000>#<0.00000, 1.00000, 0.23000>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think about 3300x3300 is the max rez I was able to capture (slow) and any more made me crash
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|3300^2 is pretty much for "normal" use
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I could see the point of using it like they describe and noticed that the thumbnail would be more practical if it were more precise and bigger
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah I thought the size was enough, but preview wasn't good enough and framing was a bit ambiguous
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What would be the best way to present the screenshot?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Zoom-in? Pop out?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one sees a frame as a red border on the thumbnail, but it is small and sometimes it would help if the user could resize the thumbnail
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eg when you make a portrait pic it really is just a few pixels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if the snapshot floater was resizable like the minimap and the thumb scaled with it - would that be the thing ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is what I'm thinking of - resize and refloat menu items once it is made wide enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sigh... constraint-based layout again...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the pic could resize alone, but at some point it would be nice to reformat the buttons and tickboxes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah OK I was suspecting this would be ugh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but resizing the thumbnail is the main thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could be a nice feature for photographers, as it is it really is useless
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eg I use debug changes myself, but have tried and found it practically useless, except for the little red border
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm. another idea would be to get it out of the viewer into *a* window of your $desktopenvironment
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also the saving UI is kind of waste of pixels - a dropdown would be better and there are two save elements which could be redesigned
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Armin - that is my pet subject - make the 3D render a separate window
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and allow for multiple 3D render windows
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one of mine, too ... and have a blender plugin ... sigh ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially for machinima recording - kind of like a camera view
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also for building, additional rendering windows would be great
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even plan/elevation windows like CAD has to align things to grid etc
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW has any docs on Viewer 2 leaked yet, besides the vids on tube
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, i was too busy in RL the past 4 weeks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it kind of is very demoralising to us not to have access to viewer 2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah hehe otherwise you would have leaked some
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or found some
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, but have searched for leaked ones
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or not
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure a bootleg download would be there too, but I havent seen or heard of one yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dont expect miracles - there isn't that much that coold possibly be new at 2.0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one of the Lindens closed my JIRA on ATI (my desktop not regular system) saying the internal viewer supports HD5xxx GPU
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and there are some pretty talented coders from LL busy with Snowglobe ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm worried that dumbing-down of the UI could be done by us better than Lindens, they don't spend enough life inworld
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Snow is making good progress - performance/stability
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah. and the ogp texture issue was fixed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even the media plugin seems to have stabilised (was a bit flaky) but OpenJPG disapeared lately
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|back to KDU and FMOD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|KDU ... well ... ok. FMOD ? never ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|suppose they pay for it so why not, but I found OpenJPG was a bit faster (not what I expected) when it was used in some of the TestBuild
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|FMOD works a lot better than OpenAL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I find that Open distorts with higher bandwidths and poor network performance
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|been using it with Meerkat - hopeless
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, openal made a lot better on linux
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe it will improve on PC too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|didn't it come out of Creative?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, creative is its history
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not that Creative have any idea about code - they make some real crap
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my first soundcard was a creative labs soundblaster
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and always fail to adhere to standards eg duplex or multiple outputs on creative never work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|API came out from Creative != code came out from Creative
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not that many people had a soundcard 1992
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mine too, SondBlaster Pro - stereo but 8 bit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:03]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although the API is... meh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there a way to play UI sounds without making them spatial in OpenAL?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no idea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenAL and ASIO4all kind of suck too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|brb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I use ASIO4all on one of the boxes (XP) to help with signals like mic in recording, but never had it going well with OpenAL
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well ... at least openal has now a documented config file - different from what the crative sample impementation had
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*creative
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Armin Weatherwax ac292d45-bff0-4cfd-ae77-f11e67bf82f5''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| colspan="2"|''Object: <27.47610, 102.79959, 26.54615>''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bullet prepared
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| colspan="2"|''Armin Weatherwax touched Armin Weatherwax's tail''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| colspan="2"|''spraybullet: Bullet ready''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bullet going to be shooted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| colspan="2"|''spraybullet: Bullet listening''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ac292d45-bff0-4cfd-ae77-f11e67bf82f5#00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#<1.00000, 0.00000, 0.50000>#<1.00000, 0.00000, 1.00000>
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:10]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|always a mess when things go open
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just look at Snow naming policy hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one day test build, then Release Candidate named Release, then back to TestBuild
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sadly its the linux "sound system" that is completely messed up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Linux sound was always the thing that made me laugh at chances for Linux to ever make it to the market - pathetic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a miracle that there is actually sound coming out from those speakers.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|frankly one can't have 3 sound systems and make it work across multiple apps
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agree
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I keep trying different distos (Gentoo being the fav) and can't believe that none of them will make the same sounds - UI works, but not DVD, or no recording - always something is dead
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let's count 1 oss (compat layer) 2 Alsa 3 pulse 4 jack 5 whatever that thing for kde is named
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|phonon.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Phonon is just a layer over ALSA/OSS/Pulse.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And so is GStreamer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh yeah, Phonon probably also layers over DirectSound
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually PC Linux OS 2007 was the closest to everything working - didn't decode 5.1 but all apps worked including DVBT in Kafeine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gstreamer is evil (more evil than pulse)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i love xine, but xine is evil, too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just in a different way
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nooo Kafeine is better with DVB for sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and xine is like a dead box if you don't like something you can't rconfigure much
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or maybe I didn't like it and didn't work on it hard enough
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the api is kind of intuitive
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I found that adding things eg DVD CODEC and TV tuners actually worked in Kafeine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|different from gstreamer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is xine working on win ? (i know there are builds ...)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but xine is like the same stuff listed no matter what you add, so if not supported it can't be fixed easily
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|don't think so, but again I'd like Kafeine on windows - I like the zoom on live DVBT and DVD too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thankies Armin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, I think its time to make a notecard for jacek ...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i never found zoom in xine, does it have zoom to cut the balck borders when signal is not the same ratio as the screen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|true Armin - she'll be thinking; just as well that we talk Second Life™ when the boss is present
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| colspan="2"|''Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|otherwise it would all be chicken and open source
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Open sauce!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|free range code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gah, my milk!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah and open sauce
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, who has a good chatlog without too much §$friendisgoingonoffline
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, I get so many, need to delets a bit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Idk
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my routine is to look at profile of peeps i don't remeber and if they have nothing in there - delete the stupid alt
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mine has a couple of skunk smell in it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Armin Weatherwax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mine has a lot of skunk smell XD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha if they not fur - delete
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oops lag in chat
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WOW my GPU is like 77 degree (170F) with just 3 avs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I'll do it?
|}

User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-19

2009-11-20T00:48:59Z

Jacek Antonelli: Transcript and summary

== Topic ==

[[User Experience Interest Group]] Discussion for November 19, 2009.

'''Topic: Future Topic Brainstorming.'''

== Summary ==

We brainstormed topics for future UXIG discussions:

* Reducing perceived lag (especially avatar movement).
* Meet on OSGrid to inspire discussion about interop/cross-grid issues.
* What OpenSim creators want in a viewer.
* Reducing UI presence to improve immersion.
* "Beyond SL": in what ways would viewers evolve if they weren't tied to SL?
* Integration with external services (Twitter, Flickr, online marketplaces, etc.).
* Improving usability of online marketplaces, integrating them in the viewer.
* Reducing the viewer's footprint / improving performance and usability on lower-end hardware.
* Bugs / issues that affect a specific use case or demographic (builders, clothing creators, animators, models, shoppers, etc.).

== Transcript ==

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're brainstorming topics for future meetings today, so if either of you have any ideas, go ahead :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've got none.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, almost none.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:11]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Go ahead.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't have it yet? I'll go then.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:12]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|back to the conversation on the SLUX mailing lsit about laggy movement.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. The client doesn't predict movement, it just takes what server gives it and trys to smooth it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted waves''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sure there's a way to improve it by chaning the way the viewer works, but I'm not sure what.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahoy McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/changing/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Prediction routines inside the network layer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Morgaine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Jacek :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:13]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi all
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're brainstorming topics for future meetings today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I hold down the W key for T seconds, I should move S*T meters forward.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:14]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|barring obsticals.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(S is speed)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:15]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm looking for a nice way to state it as a bug.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:16]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I think it is a feature...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does anyone know what's really happening when your walkign speed slws down?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm. The viewer could assume that you start moving forward immediately, but it would be hard to sync that up with the server. There would probably be a lot of "rubber banding" (bouncing back to where the sim says you really are)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The server sends an object update packet for your avatar with a slower velocity.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:17]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But why is your velocity slower?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Becasue information got lost about your keystrokes?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How do you mean, when you slow down?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because you bumped into something?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no obsticals. a flat floor.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because an object is execreting a force over you?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uphills?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ooga boog
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lots of avatrs nearby, but not in your way.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:18]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For the topic brainstorm ... a sort of meta-topic: "Hold a meeting in OSgrid, as a prompt for ideas about interop and about grid cross-over issues."
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just give one second of tweening between what we think is the right position and the server's position then. Nobody will notice!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sometimes the time dilation on the sim drops when there're too much physics stuff going on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And what OpenSim devs want to see in viewers!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In which case all movement slows down on the sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, in that way the avatar rubber-bands, don't want to see that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:19]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Garn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover woofs''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when rubberbanding happens, can't the viewer keep moving you towards where it knows you WANT to be?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway. We could make that a topic for a future meeting, if you'd like? "Ways to reduce perceived lag", or something like that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be further away to the truth..
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:20]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Preceived performance is important.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''Jacek Antonelli earskritches Garn. Hi there''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:21]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Firefox developers apprantly think it's more important than real performance..
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:21]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover tilts head and thumps foot softly''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay. And Morgaine suggested we have a meeting on OSGrid to inspire discussion about interop issues.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyway as I was'nt saying for the UXIG we could do stuff the UX lindens would do.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alright.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heya Tech
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Go ahead, gen
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do stuff like discussing mockups for Imprudence.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi garn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:22]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Waht is Imprudence?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Third pary viewers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|New features and featurettes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|party
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not just any third party viewer!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I got Imprudence to work in my overaly for gentoo users.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth looks at Jacek's general direction.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://imprudenceviewer.org/ hax
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:23]
| colspan="2"|''Morgaine Dinova refreshes Tech's overlay''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:23]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Techwolf Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But be forwarn, it based on 1.22.11 code, not 1.23.5.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although that would probably change in two months...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tech: that's a *good* think is some cases. It's made Imprudence very stable in Opensim!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thing*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:24]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm intentionally trying to keep UXIG from turning into "Imprudence Favoritism Hour", but we could have discussions about potential UI mockups for viewers in general
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:25]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't see why it couldn't be "Imprudence Favoritism Hour" as long as the things discussed can be merged into other viewers as well.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:26]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe once in a while. What are some other topic ideas?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe more than once in a while.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Twice in a while?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take a look at the past meetings for inspiration, maybe: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Transcripts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let the meetings have some actual work produced from it... even if just a little.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:27]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about an art jam?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that's a really impressive transcripts list.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We could have discussions like the machinima ones, but for other aspects -- building, clothing design, animation, etc. Invite some representatives and talk about bugs and issues that affect them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's been one year! Woot!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It has!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|getting 1.2 silly rss didn't notify me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:28]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Happy Birthday, UXIG!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wahoo!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:29]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Garn: We haven't blogged about it yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:30]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... and in the other direction maybe Imprudence could favour UXIG. Like, post some notices on the front page or something.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are some other topics?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:31]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything in the UI bugging you lately? Anything you wish it could do?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|true fullscreen.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:32]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|get rid of the menu bar and everything.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:32]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth has one of those bugs swatted... but there are still lots. Not to mention he's also bugged in real life by blood-sucking bugs.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|More immersive experience... Yeah.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you know how to do fullscreen in Gnome?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alt+Enter?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wb Garn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still popups :(
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:33]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aw
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's the /apps/metacity/window_keybindings/toggle_fullscreen keybinding.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so whats new on here *sniffs*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:34]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth has never smelled more catty before.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about revisiting some of the earlier topics?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:35]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any in particular that look interesting to revisit?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not much. Sigh.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on 1.2
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:36]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm thinking about stuff that have been improved like minimap and radar.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or things that when revisited could give a bit of different perspective...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:37]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Beyond SL" would be an interesting topic. Ie. cutting the bond with LL on viewers, and evolving viewers independently.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:38]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|booo the minimap arrow is yellow lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i haz a skelly in this guy now lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Baww... I'm hungry.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe llGetPizza();?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:39]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlPizza
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|McCabe's fallen asleep. I'm about to as well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm... so about llPizza()... intergration with outside the metaverse could be a topic?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover facewashes''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are you doing Garn Mweh Mweh! :O
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol Garn, ew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:40]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tryin to wale him up!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| colspan="2"|''Techwolf Lupindo lol''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|McCabe Maxsted:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually gotta run
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cya McCabe, tc :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cya McCabe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| colspan="2"|''McCabe Maxsted calls llGetRL()''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:41]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, integration outside SL... that could be stuff like Twitter and Flickr as well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And SLX? (Of course, SLX sux.)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SLuX
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UXIG was almost going to be called SLUX
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>.<
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:42]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let you crop and scale screenshots from inside SL.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Things like that. And also, like web frontends. Like, who's online...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually, the mailing list *is* called SL-UX
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:43]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maps... that kind of stuff. Things relating to your avatar when it's not online.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:43]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover wonders if the arrow on the minimap is a new colour file line''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Garn: Nah, for some reason LL decided to color that one arrow, out of all of them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well its the one just added, they used to all be yellow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or some of em did
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:44]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there a way to make it always 9:00 inthe morning?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's called the WindLight editor...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hal: In SL? You can use World > Environment Settings > Environment Editor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:45]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then slide the time slider
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But doesn't it reset when you log off?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think there's any way to make it stick permanently
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:46]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that should be an option.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:47]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth wants to expose more of Second Life's rendering options into that place, like glow, shadows, WindLight postproc, and such...''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:47]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any other topic ideas? How about non-UI things? Other aspects of the total user experience?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is user experience outside the UI?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|AO built into the viewer.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:48]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Built-in AO is a popular idea, yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:48]
| colspan="2"|''Garn Conover reads up''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If it's popular, why hasn't it happened?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It has.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Emerald.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Really? I can't get that one workign.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because it needs 3rd party before LL does anything these days
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|u guys hear about SL Mentors?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It hasn't happened in mainline SL because LL has other priorities. -_-
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah so what does that have to d-
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:49]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, bet that's really damaging to the first hour experience.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:50]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They ought to just send newbies straight to NCI, heh. And start paying NCI's operational costs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe well they are gonna start RHN again hopefully this time they keep it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:51]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope so
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about things on the web site? Account information, transaction history, whatever. Anything there that needs some UX love?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Blog, forums, anything
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Search
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why can't we get transaction history from inside the viewer?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good question
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At least for the current session.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:52]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Second Life? Not much we can do about that... but maybe about OpenSim grids?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How does that work on opensim? Do you use any currency?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We can talk about things we can't improve ourselves. Build up some recommendations for LL to ignore.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:53]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, I'm talking about blogs, forums, searches, online friend lists, that kind of stuffs...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:54]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Build up some recommendations for OpemSim grids to take.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We could even talk about the usability issues with SLX and other marketplaces, and how those could be improved to make the overall experience better
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although they will probably cite that inexistant license incompability and ignore us too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SLX needs a better wayt ot make a single payment.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/way to/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|without teleporting soemwhere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You could just Pay Exchange Street...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can't I pay a fake avatar directly?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:55]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Who?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Exchange Street.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh....
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I can pay him directly?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|UUID dcdf9a20-6175-45aa-ba0d-118ba0a975ba.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:56]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, you can pay him directly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I never knew.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although maybe it could get more direct than this?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seriously. LL brought SLX and they still behave as if they are indie.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are they afraid to integrate the accounts for security reasons?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:57]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not that we are going to help them of course.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's nto a first-hour usability issue.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/not/
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:58]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth liked OnRez shop better.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:58]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Garn Conover:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i wonder if SLX can deduct from your sl account directly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not yet.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mmkay, I'm gonna add SLX/marketplace usability as a future topic
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What else?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uh, please don't.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We don't want to help SLX.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay, I don't.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Think of it as "what other marketplaces should avoid doing" then
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd rather see some third-party marketplace go up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's reallt LL's business.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [15:59]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So it's like talking about CVS?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh man, anachroistic chat.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Other topic ideas?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:00]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pizza?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is the devil.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:01]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You already said pizza
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've gort a question.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Go ahead
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:02]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A bit off topic, but, what kind of hardware are you guys using to get the best user experience?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm running a Linux box with an AMD quad-core Phenom, 4GB memory, and dual Geforce 8600 graphics cards.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:04]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For instance, my CPU is at 100% right now and nobody is moving at all.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, SL pretty much sucks up as much of your resources as it can
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That seems wrong.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No matter how good your hardware is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:05]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wasteful.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| colspan="2"|''Geneko Nemeth is watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UspmcTUmPZ4#t=1m09 (Skipping the more irrevelant part)''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Hal Klaxon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or very frugal.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:06]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, it is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:07]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mmmkay, I think that's all for this week. One last time -- any other topics?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Geneko Nemeth:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pizza!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sleep :-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [16:08]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for meeting Jacek
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care, all! Thanks for coming
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [16:09]
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|Jacek Antonelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you next week
|}