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Virtual Railway Consortium/SLRR History 2

2010-09-14T07:34:23Z

Jer Straaf: entry used without permission removed by group representative with permissions DO NOT PUT THEM BACK OR YOU WILL BE REPORTED, FINAL WARNING!

Virtual Railway Consortium/SLRR History 2

2010-09-14T07:33:14Z

Jer Straaf: correction due to content removal

Virtual Railway Consortium/SLRR History 2

2010-09-14T07:31:29Z

Jer Straaf: entry used without permission removed by group representative with permissions DO NOT PUT THEM BACK OR YOU WILL BE REPORTED, FINAL WARNING!

Virtual Railway Consortium/SLRR History 1

2010-09-14T07:30:21Z

Jer Straaf: entry used without permission removed by group representative with permissions DO NOT PUT THEM BACK OR YOU WILL BE REPORTED, FINAL WARNING!

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| align="left"|This page was modified {{Age|09|09|2010}} days ago__TOC__
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==Description==
<div style="padding:0.5em">
This Article is a history of the Second Life Railroad ( [[Acronyms|SLRR]] ) on the Heterocera Atoll continent as compiled by the Virtual Railway Consortium.

This history of the SLRR is long and growing, so multiple pages are required to present it in appropriate detail:
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History_1| SLRR History 2005 - 2009]]
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History_2| SLRR History 2010 and beyond]]

This page is maintained by members of the VRC. You can use the Talk page if you want to get in contact with them.
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==HISTORY==
<div style="padding:0.5em">

'''''A Brief History of the Second Life Railroad (SLRR)'''''
As seen and recorded by the Virtual Railway Consortium

===2005===
====SLRR - the origins====
The [[Second Life Railroad]] has its origins in early attempts by residents to provided automated travel around the mainland during a time when their were no direct teleports available. Some of the earliest examples - such as the "Telehopper" from Kissling and the [[GSLR|Great Second Life Railway]] from Mocha to Purple - led to the first Linden-created trolley, operating from Luna to Dore via Nova Albion. As the first mainland expanded and Magellan Linden made additional discoveries beyond the founding of Nova Albion, roadways and other Protected Land Rights of Way (ROW) were crafted on the first continent, Sansara, but none were slated for rail use.

With the discovery of the second Second Life continent by Magellan Linden in early 2005, the Grid saw its large-scale, Linden sponsored rail line for on the Heterocera Atoll, the Second Life Railroad (SLRR). Magellan Linden's wrecked exploration vehicle can still be seen to this day in the Columbia region, not too far from one of the earliest SLRR rail stations in Tuliptree.

Eric, Nigel, and Michael Linden created most of the track and other structures, the rolling stock, most notably, the SLRR Commuter V1.2 car and the red Alco RS-3 Locomotive, and the scripting needed to run continuous rail services for free use by all Second Life Residents.

At this time, the track formed three unconnected tracks: 
{{SLurl|region=Bhaga|x=108|y=34|z=29|title=Bhaga|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4753062528_ffd9dbd02b_m.jpg}} to Paranthrene, where the {{SLurl|region=Clearwing|x=254|y=36|z=87|title=Clearwing / Paranthrene Transfer Station||image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4753059006_9a7322977f_m.jpg}} was located; 
{{SLurl|region=Clearwing|x=254|y=36|z=87|title=Clearwing / Paranthrene Transfer Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4753059006_9a7322977f_m.jpg}} to an End Of Line (EOL) in {{SLurl|region=Torva|x=94|y=253|z=81|title=Torva Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4752416097_30e07b8eab_m.jpg}}; 
An EOL in {{SLurl|region=Jubata|x=195|y=239|z=81|title=Jubata Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4753055862_f7d355b04b_m.jpg}} around through the level grade crossing in {{SLurl|region=Oculea|x=244|y=36|z=32|title=Oculea|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4753068532_0e6260b5fc_m.jpg}}, to the {{SLurl|region=Tuliptree|x=152|y=155|z=31|title=Tuliptree Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4752410997_a7e278f9b8_m.jpg}}. 

The Torva-Jubata Gap was a section that appeared to be intended for designation as Protected Land ROW, but by some mishap was sold to Residents. After several years, the ROW was reacquired by Linden Lab. The gap was promptly closed.

The original three tracks were provided with five Resident-created stations, all named for the region in which they are located. These stations and their creators are:

* {{SLurl|region=Achemon|x=214|y=123|z=71|title=Achemon Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4752413481_5075d296c3_m.jpg}} - Pratyeka Muromachi
* {{SLurl|region=Calleta|x=185|y=179|z=31|title=Calleta Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4752411511_a16c67fc3b_m.jpg}} - nimrod Yaffle
* {{SLurl|region=Neumoegen|x=107|y=142|z=66|title=Neumoegen Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4753053638_4a3de74973_m.jpg}} - Fallingwater Cellardoor
* {{SLurl|region=Obscure|x=63|y=120|z=82|title=Obscure Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4753054856_ba7c230b38_m.jpg}} - Jauani Wu
* {{SLurl|region=Tuliptree|x=152|y=155|z=31|title=Tuliptree Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4752410997_a7e278f9b8_m.jpg}} - Sam Portacerro

===How the original SLRR worked===
By experimentation and a few contacts with the original designers and implementers, members of the Virtual Railway Consortium (formerly the Second Life Railway Consortium) determined much of the functionality of the LL SLRR train system as created by Eric, Michael, and Nigel Linden:

The scripted System Controller of the SLRR is located in the Right Of Way (ROW) maps on the office wall of the {{SLurl|region=ANWR|x=105|y=171|z=40|title=ANWR prim drilling rig|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4753053136_4570aeba90_m.jpg}}.

The invisible scripted Train Detectors placed along the SLRR ROW at various points and at each station provide two main functions - they rez a new train on command from the Controller, and they detect the passage of a train (or any scripted non-Phantom object in motion) using the [[llVolumeDetect]] function. When a 'train' is detected that information is transmitted to the Controller. As the train passes each Train Detector along the line, its passage is reported to the Controller. If the passage of a train is not reported often enough, the Controller assumes the train has been lost from the system and rezzes another unit from the Train Detector at the last reported position.

Trains can also be rezzed by any Linden touching a Train Detector at the end of tracks.

Each train can detect (by collision) a station or an End Of Line (EOL). At each station there is a scripted prim shaped like a Guide rail, though often shorter. This prim, named Buffer Stop is buried directly underneath the stations Train Detector within the Guide prims used to 'steer' the trains on the SLRR, and being scripted, triggers the SLRR train scripts to stop the train, wait 30 seconds for passengers to get on and off, then continue. Presumably, it is the script in this prim that emails reports to the System Controllers on ANWR about the arrival of a train at a station, as indicated by the data whispered in open chat there. At an EOL, a visible unscripted track structure named "Buffer Stop" triggers the SLRR train scripts to immediately reverse the direction of travel of the rolling stock and start it running back to another EOL or a transfer station.

The SLRR fielded two makes of rolling stock: The train seen most recently (Eric Linden's sleek SLRR Commuter v1.2), or 'Blue Train', ran quite well under Havok 1, but as scripted, travels too fast to hold the track under Havok 4 - it rezzes attempting to run at 16 meters per second. The powerful red Alco RS-3 locomotive created by Michael Linden also ran the road around the Atoll very well under Havok 1. Its operation under the original SLRR scripts was also observed during testing the SLRR system, and it also was trying to run too fast for H4.

Originally, the SLRR was divided into three control segments, SLRR Control North, SLRR Control South, and SLRR Control East. One break, between the East and the North segments is at the Clearwing/Paranthrene Transfer Station. For years, a break existed between the North and South tracks from the EOL at the Jubata station through Sinica to the EOL in Torva. (See 2009)

When the system was running, the active control segments were denoted by colored LEDs on the Controller. On the South segment, passages of trains through each Train Detector and stops at stations were tracked on one section by smaller LEDs displaying the train's location.

Near the System Controller, messages from each active train reporting 'last seen at' and 'arrival at', with region and coordinates, station name if any, rolling stock name, and travel times could be heard whispered in open chat.

The SLRR rolling stock ran as physical objects, 'steered' over the tracks by an invisible non-physical prim named Guide that the trains repeatedly collided with, thereby being directed back onto the correct course.

Since this Guide was 0.5 x 0.5 meters in cross-section, and was placed with its bottom face up to 0.20 meters above the trackbed prims, it represented a serious obstacle to the smooth operation of automobiles or other such traffic at level grade crossings. In Oculea, the first such crossing, a system was implemented to smooth the passage of non-rail traffic though the crossing. The Guide prims were set to Phantom state until the crossing control scripts sensed on the tracks the approach of any train (or other moving object) with "SLRR" in its name. Upon the detection of such an object, the crossing scripts set the Guide prims to Nonphysical state until the train was sensed having cleared the crossing, after which the Guides were set back to Phantom.

A method of triggering the system into resuming train rezzing was proposed and verified during investigations into the operation of the system.

The old SLRR system is currently disabled, so no Linden trains are now running.

The open source GSLR script from the Rail Rally 2008 Resource Kits collection appears to work very similarly to the way the SLRR scripts were observed to operate. This script provides a good starting point for physical train building, and several Residents have used it successfully. These kits are available free at the VRC headquarters across from Tuliptree Station.

----

===2006===
====Resident Station Build Contest====
In September of 2006, Nigel Linden [http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2006/10/10/second-life-railroad-stations--resident-construction-bids announced a contest] for Residents to design and build ten more SLRR stations, winning L$ prizes for their efforts, and completing the final builds by October 31st. From the 103 entries, the [http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2006/10/25/slrr-station-build-bid--results winning builders] were:

* {{SLurl|region=Bhaga|x=108|y=34|z=29|title=Bhaga Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4753062528_ffd9dbd02b_m.jpg}} - Alazarin Mondrian
* {{SLurl|region=Tenera|x=196|y=139|z=84|title=Tenera Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4753060274_3437603cb0_m.jpg}} - Shawk Pertwee
* {{SLurl|region=Aglia|x=144|y=151|z=84|title=Aglia Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4753060038_2b70176a40_m.jpg}} - Elliot Eldrich
* {{SLurl|region=Crenulate|x=150|y=26|z=86|title=Crenulate Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4752418351_1672f77ca4_m.jpg}} - Donk Kongo
* {{SLurl|region=Clearwing|x=254|y=36|z=87|title=Clearwing Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4753059006_9a7322977f_m.jpg}} - Ralph Doctorow
* {{SLurl|region=Foxglove|x=151|y=227|z=91|title=Foxglove Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4752417495_fc5a343e83_m.jpg}} - Midtown Bienenstrich
* {{SLurl|region=Lunalis|x=26|y=76|z=91|title=Lunalis Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4753057482_47d0053d95_m.jpg}} - Lunalis SLRR Committee
* {{SLurl|region=Spini|x=102|y=18|z=81|title=Spini Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4752416097_30e07b8eab_m.jpg}} - Mordecai Nitschke
* {{SLurl|region=Jubata|x=195|y=239|z=81|title=Jubata Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4753055862_f7d355b04b_m.jpg}} - Ilianexsi Sojourner
* {{SLurl|region=Epirrhoe|x=171|y=225|z=81|title=Epirrhoe Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4753055516_988abfa54c_m.jpg}} - Ledje Gorky
* {{SLurl|region=Zale|x=73|y=200|z=30|title=Zale Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4752421259_405df1e704_m.jpg}} - Byron Curtis

These and other stations on the SLRR lines continued to be regularly served by the SLRR Commuter V1.2 car throughout 2006.

----

===2007===
====Renewed Rail Interest====
In 2007 a Resident developed a sensor-guided trolley for use on the {{SLurl|region=Calleta|x=177|y=200|z=31|title=GSLR Calleta EOL|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4753053366_382d9bb5a9_m.jpg}} to {{SLurl|region=Cecropia|x=112|y=64|z=31|title=Cecropia Ocean terminal|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4752412051_fac8aa251f_m.jpg}}. Testing the unit on the SLRR, the developer repeatedly met other Residents interested in rail, and this led to the formation of the Second Life Railway Consortium and the subsequent two-region Rail Rally 2008, the first major rail event in SL and the largest ever in land area, number of rail builds, and number and variety of events. (See 2008)

There were other rail groups already in existence, but most seemed dormant. Since the Rail Rally, rail-oriented group numbers and memberships have been steadily growing, with visible increases in Resident talk about, usage, and creation of rail content.

During 2007, Residents repeatedly asked in forums and filed in Jira about the now missing SLRR automated trains services, stating that they had valued the rail resource and asking that it be reinstated.
Private residents began riding Arcadia Asylum hobo-trains on the abandoned SLRR tracks and several residents built their own locomotives.

====Vicina Quay and track====
In November, Michael Linden built the {{SLurl|region=Vicina|x=133|y=70|z=31|title=Vicina Quay|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4752422181_9eeb2e1994_m.jpg}} and a freighter floating a few meters away. A new track was laid connecting the Quay with the planned {{SLurl|region=Crumbi|x=30|y=229|z=75|title=Crumbi Transfer station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4753061668_550b9de19b_m.jpg}}. This junction was later reconfigured, eliminating the need for transfers and integrating the Vicina track into the rest of SLRR. (See 2010)

----

===2008===

====Havok Upgrade====
On 1 April 2008, the Havok version 1 physics engine in SL was updated to Havok 4 gridwide. Changes in Havok itself, its interface with the LL simulator code, in the system tunings, and vehicle code of the upgrade caused the failure of most physical trains in SL, including the Commuter V1.2 which, at times, had been running on all three SLRR tracks. The venerable Nova Albion trolley also ceased to operate for the same reasons. Gradually, rolling stock creators began to make adjustment to their builds and scripts to accommodate the new operating conditions.

The LDPW contracted a Mole to work on the SLRR system. This development resulted in a successful test on 31 December 2008 of new SLRR rolling stock scripts in two green Alco RS-3 locomotives created by Michael Linden, with a Mole engineer on one unit, and Michael Linden operating the other. Both locomotives had multiple Residents and Lindens aboard, and completed a full traverse of the three tracks then in place on the SLRR, starting out at {{SLurl|region=Tuliptree|x=152|y=155|z=31|title=Tuliptree Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4752410997_a7e278f9b8_m.jpg}} and pulling into the {{SLurl|region=Bhaga|x=108|y=34|z=29|title=Bhaga Station|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4753062528_ffd9dbd02b_m.jpg}} at the other end. One of the units made the return trip with the Mole operating it and several Residents aboard.

====Bay City SLRR Spur====
Additional rails were added to the Bay City mainland area. While many of them were essentially decorative, and for use on a non-physical trolley system down Route 66 in Bay City, some were planned for future SLRR expansion. A Bay City station was also constructed by Squishy Mole of the LDPW in {{SLurl|region=Inner Harbor|x=10|y=33|z=26|title=Inner Harbor|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4759968538_aa27cb7fa7_m.jpg}}, but left unfinished at the opening of the Bay City area. It served only as a place to house the city's content package for Residents. Late in 2008, additional rails were laid from Grub Beach to {{SLurl|region=Manyiminya|x=24|y=25|z=25|title=Manyiminya}}in the Bay City area.

====Rail Rally 2008====
Over a period of two months, Rail Rally 2008 was hosted in two mainland regions - Schizura and Vicina.

Sponsored by the Second Life Railway Consortium, the Rally included two three day sessions and multiple events in the interim. The Rally brought together rail builders, scripters, merchants, train-spotting and -riding buffs, and a mix of Residents with rail and other transportation interests.

The overall program was family friendly and included a Toy Steam Train, a fishing game, paddle-boats, canoes & kayaks, and a hidden maze under the malls.

The venue hosted an SLRR-gauge two-region track loop with working signals and moving bridges, with a stretch of the loop running alongside the SLRR. Godwyn Station was built just for the Rally in Schizura. A monorail system was installed running from the main building in Vicina to Godwyn Station.

Also part of the program were beautiful full-sized train displays, running trains to watch and ride, field trips to railways and rail builds in SL, Chatterboxes offering rail history and quotes, free information about all known rail activity in SL, a rail scripting debugging session with Andrew and Simon Linden, time trials for Resident-created rolling stock, and the RAILS indie rock band.

Several Residents and groups provided free content of all types - complete train scripting systems, sounds, textures, trackside signals, switching standards documentation, art, and other rail building and scripting resources. This began the VRC tradition and major focus on providing free rail content to all Residents, and is continuing today in the Resource Kits found at VRC Headquarters in Tuliptree.

A rolling stock build contest was held and voted on by Residents. Many beautiful and intricate designs were presented, some of which can still be seen running the SLRR rails.

To advertise the Rally, interactive posterboards were developed and given to any resident wishing to display them. The posterboards gave touchers an updateable notecard on Rally plans and results. Many of these posterboards are still seen around the grid and regularly serve notecards to interested Residents. Posterboards are still available at VRC HQ.

====Resident-Created Trains====
In 2008 and continuing up to the present, Resident-created trains have steadily increased in variety and number. A few commercial offerings appeared, but equally visible on the SLRR are the many different builds using free open source scripts available from several sources.

----

===2009===

====Closing the Gap====
Early in 2009, the Resident-owned land in {{SLurl|region=Sinica|x=85|y=117|z=81|title=Sinica|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4752415727_4a0bc11fa1_m.jpg}} where the SLRR should have been running since its inception was acquired, track was laid, and the Torva-Jubata Gap was closed. Around the same time, a passing track in Sinica, between Torva and Jubata, was laid in preparation for heavier, bi-directional traffic on the SLRR.

====New passing tracks====
In early 2009, a passing track was laid in {{SLurl|region=Lunalis|x=119|y=168|z=90|title=Lunalis|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4753057800_ac1c76bc4c_m.jpg}} and {{SLurl|region=Fucosa|x=128|y=128|z=126|title=Fucosa Passing track|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4753057800_ac1c76bc4c_m.jpg}}, and slightly later, the {{SLurl|region=Sinica|x=82|y=96|z=80|title=Sinica Passing track|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4752415401_2f70291bb8_m.jpg}} passing track mentioned above.

====SLRR Infrastructure Developments====
In late 2009, the LDPW invited the participation of Residents in discussing and contributing to the development of SLRR infrastructure improvements and extensions. VRC members offered siding and passing track, ferry, AutoTrain, station, and other site suggestions. Also offered were suggestions for standards and techniques to implement signaling and switching for the cooperative usage of SLRR tracks and other facilities. Many of these concepts had been in development since 2007 and are now being implemented on the SLRR.

====Switching development====
In late 2009 Sylvan Mole began the development of active switches for the SLRR. Multiple configurations have been tested to ensure compatibility with the widest possible range of existing Resident rolling stock designs. A {{SLurl|region=Tussock|x=128|y=38|z=120|title=switch design testbed|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4752424191_d838d64904_m.jpg}} was constructed in Tussock to allow Residents to verify proper operation of their rolling stock through the proposed switches.

====Crumbi reconfiguration====
Beginning in late 2009 the track alignment near the Crumbi Transfer Station was modified, track was added, and switches were begun to directly connect the Vicina track to the SLRR. The station was renamed to {{SLurl|region=Crumbi|x=30|y=229|z=75|title=Crumbi Junction|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4752420425_d5fcb993f6_m.jpg}}, reflecting the new track configuration.

====New Track====
In 2009, continuing into 2010, new tracks were added to the SLRR, all of which were directly integrated with planned switches.

In the Crumbi Reconfiguration, a bridging track was added in {{SLurl|region=Tenera|x=235|y=194|z=80|title=Tenera|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4753060612_d8de5d856c_m.jpg}} to enable routing from that track over to the track heading out through Webworm.

In Pawpaw, another {{SLurl|region=Pawpaw|x=143|y=117|z=120|title=bridging track|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4753064808_b25cb8023f_m.jpg}} was laid to enable routing between the branch heading from Pawpaw to the {{SLurl|region=Pavonia|x=52|y=115|z=128|title=Pavonia End of the Line}}, and the other from Pawpaw toward Tussock Junction.

An extension from the workyard in Tussock extended the SLRR up to Spangle. The workyard was shut down, but a {{SLurl|region=Spangle|x=161|y=239|z=33|title=siding in Spangle|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4752425929_156f034b12_m.jpg}} provides facilities to sideline a unit for servicing or repair.

Track in {{SLurl|region=Inner Harbor|x=10|y=33|z=26|title=inner Harbor|image=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4759968538_aa27cb7fa7_m.jpg}} to {{SLurl|region=Manyiminya|x=24|y=25|z=25|title=Manyiminya|}} in Bay City received a guide rail and buffer stops, and became a test rail for switches and crossings late in the year.

----

===2010 and beyond===

Information about the [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History_2| SLRR History 2010 and beyond]] can be found on [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History_2|this page]].

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==Source==
<div style="padding:0.5em">
The above information was initially collected by members of from the Virtual Railway Consortium. 
Additional information was provided by {{User2|Damion Goodman}} SLRR Rail Group.
</div></div>

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==References==
<div style="padding:0.5em">
In this list of Related resources you can find more information about the SLRR and other Rail related articles on wiki pages and external websites.

Wiki pages:
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium]] Main page
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History]] Index page
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History_1]] 2005 to 2009
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_History_2]] 2010
* [[Virtual_Railway_Consortium/SLRR_Stations]] SLRR and Resident stations along the SLRR

* [[Second_Life_Railroad|SLRR Main page]]
* [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History|SLRR History]]
* [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_standards|SLRR Standards]]
* [[Second Life Railroad/SLRR Switch|SLRR Switch]]

* [[LDPW|Linden Department of Public Works]]
* [[ONSR|Okemo, Nakiska, and Southern Railway]]
* [[GSLR|The Great Second Life Railway]]

* [[Linden_Vehicle_Tutorial]]
External information:
* [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=physics Physics related LSL on LSLwiki.net]
* [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=vehicles Vehicle related LSL on LSLwiki.net]
Rail related groups:
* [http://world.secondlife.com/group/e7ff83a9-efd8-5dd3-0b32-6419cf4d206c SL Group: SLRR Rail Group]
* [http://world.secondlife.com/group/d47adf74-2503-ef83-85fc-b7befa691b56 SL Group: Loco Motives]
* [http://world.secondlife.com/group/d012db1d-563e-e813-df8a-f1d413df4c3a SL Group: Virtual Railway Consortium] - [http://www.virtualrailwayconsortium.org/ External website]
</div></div>

[[Category:Culture]]
[[Category:History]]
[[Category:SL_Railroad]]

2010-09-08T02:41:04Z

Jer Straaf: /* SLRR Stations */

==Description==
This article is a description of the Second Life Railroad ( [[Acronyms|SLRR]] ) on the Heterocera Atoll continent.

==SLRR==
The Second Life Railroad ( [[Acronyms|SLRR]] ) runs over more then 60 Regions on the Heterocera Atoll (Northern) Continent. More than 20 more Regions have branch lines extended out from the Heterocera Main line. Branch lines include the Maritime Line, the North Coast Line, the Mountain Line and the North Line. Track-laying and maintenance are provided by the Linden Maintenance group (most often Michael Linden, currently) and the Linden Department of Public works [[LDPW]].

The long distances covered by the SLRR Atoll railroad tracks make them a unique feature in Second Life. Residents can operate trains on the SLRR and [[#Other Railway initiatives|other railroads]], much as anyone can operate a car on the roads in Second Life. Any Resident may use this public facility for any purpose consistent with the Second Life Community Standards/TOS. There are a series of official Linden [[#SLRR Stations|stations]] along the SLRR, and at times, Linden Labs has provided automated rail service.

There are many train builders in SL that make a wide variety of trains using several different methods for locomotion. The current SLRR track standards support all types of trains. Thousands of residents own personal trains. Standards for [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_standards#Guidance|guidance]], [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_standards#Gage|track]] and [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_Switch|SLRR Switches]] have enabled residents to develop suitable vehicles. Using the SLRR with its current standard is simple to understand and accessible to Residents and builders of all skill levels.

As with any other public infrastructure, there is controversy about the SLRR and its role in Second Life. Some residents feel it is completely unnecessary, some residents believe that it should remain free and open for use by all residents, others have tried to control and restrict usage of the SLRR. Some residents believe that the LDPW shows favoritism towards one particular SL railroading group.

During one of the LDPW [[Office_hours]] at the beginning of 2010 Michael Linden has made the following public statements, summarized here:

* The SLRR track specifications will not change anytime soon.
* Signals will be installed but we will not be punished for example for "running red light signals".
* Switches will be installed connecting the various branch lines to the main line.
* Automated trains will not be put into regular service by the LDPW, if the residents keep using the SLRR with their private trains.
* Residents may choose to run automated trains, consistent with the ToS.
* Residents may make a request to the LDPW to connect their private track on the Atoll to the SLRR track via a switch.

==History==
The SLRR dates back to 2005 when Linden Lab created these railroad tracks. On the [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History | SLRR history]] page you can find out more how railroad became what it is to date.

==SLRR Stations==
Stations with a number are official Linden lab SLRR station. 
Stations with a '-' are "points of interest". 
This list is controversial because it is impossible to provide an accurate accounting of the <strike>hundreds of resident builds</strike> resident build stations along the SLRR <strike>and a private listing here seems inappropriate</atrike>. The VRC <strike>continues to lists their private locations</strike> lists their public stations along the SLRR as well as <strike>(and</strike> locations of other residents<strike>) in this list of SLRR Stations over these objections.</strike>
<TABLE>
<TR>
<TD>
{{wFont|size=large|color=red|back_color=red|text=--- |}} '''Heterocera Main line'''
:1 {{SLurl|region=Tuliptree|x=152|y=155|z=31|title=Tuliptree Station}}
:- {{SLurl|region=Tuliptree|x=96|y=142|z=30|title=VRC HQ Tuliptree}}
:2 {{SLurl|region=Calleta|x=185|y=179|z=30|title=Calleta "Hobo" Station}}
:- {{SLurl|region=Calleta|x=133|y=19|z=31|title=Train & Rail Museum}}
:3 {{SLurl|region=Neumoegen|x=107|y=142|z=65|title=Neumoegen Station}}
:4 {{SLurl|region=Achemon|x=214|y=123|z=70|title=Achemon Station}}
:- {{SLurl|region=Achemon|x=29|y=240|z=81|title=Trainspotting Station}}
:5 {{SLurl|region=Obscure|x=62|y=119|z=81|title=Obscure Station}}
:6 {{SLurl|region=Epirrhoe|x=171|y=225|z=81|title=Epirrhoe Station}}
:7 {{SLurl|region=Jubata|x=195|y=239|z=81|title=Jubata Station}}
:8 {{SLurl|region=Spini|x=102|y=18|z=81|title=Spini Station}}
:- {{SLurl|region=Athetis|x=215|y=127|z=80|title=Athetis Station}}
:- {{SLurl|region=Parva|x=117|y=174|z=84|title=Woo Station}}
:9 {{SLurl|region=Lunalis|x=24|y=71|z=90|title=Lunalis Station}}
:- {{SLurl|region=Lapara|x=161|y=78|z=92|title=Tagiri Station}}
:10 {{SLurl|region=Foxglove|x=151|y=227|z=90|title=Foxglove Station}}
: -- {{SLurl|region=Taeniatum|x=101|y=179|z=102|title=H8 Motors Express}}
:11 {{SLurl|region=Clearwing|x=254|y=36|z=86|title=Clearwing Station}}
:12 {{SLurl|region=Crenulate|x=150|y=26|z=86|title=Crenulate Station}}
: -- {{SLurl|region=Pini|x=112|y=102|z=94|title=Pini Yard}}
:13 {{SLurl|region=Aglia|x=144|y=151|z=83|title=Aglia Station}}
: -- {{SLurl|region=Celerio|x=132|y=235|z=82|title=Celerio Station}}
: -- {{SLurl|region=Velox|x=17|y=192|z=83|title=Velox Station}}
:14 {{SLurl|region=Tenera|x=196|y=139|z=83|title=Tenera Station}}
:15 {{SLurl|region=Zale|x=73|y=200|z=29|title=Zale Station}}
:16 {{SLurl|region=Bhaga|x=108|y=34|z=28|title=Bhaga Station}}

{{wFont|size=large|color=lime|back_color=lime|text=--- |}} '''Maritime branch line'''
:17 {{SLurl|region=Vicina|x=133|y=70|z=30|title=Vicina Dock}}
:18 {{SLurl|region=Dubia|x=73|y=233|z=61|title=Dubia Station}}
:19 {{SLurl|region=Crumbi|x=28|y=206|z=65|title=Crumbi Junction}}

{{wFont|size=large|color=Yellow|back_color=Yellow|text=--- |}} '''North Coast branch line'''
:20 {{SLurl|region=Pawpaw|x=148|y=117|z=118|title=Pawpaw Junction}}
:21 {{SLurl|region=Tussock|x=118|y=95|z=118|title=Tussock Station}}
:22 {{SLurl|region=Malacosoma|x=22|y=223|z=79|title=Malacosoma crossover}}
:-- {{SLurl|region=Malacosoma|x=15|y=230|z=79|title=Malacosoma Station}}
:23 {{SLurl|region=Melanthia|x=93|y=4|z=31|title=Melanthia Station}}
:24 {{SLurl|region=Spangle|x=161|y=239|z=31|title=Spangle Station}}

{{wFont|size=large|color=aqua|back_color=aqua|text=--- |}} '''Mountain branch line'''
:25 {{SLurl|region=Leafroller|x=203|y=14|z=119|title=Leafroller Station}}
:26 {{SLurl|region=Pavonia|x=49|y=122|z=129|title=Pavonia end Station}}

{{wFont|size=large|color=pink|back_color=pink|text=--- |}} '''Northern branch line'''
:27 {{SLurl|region=Tussock|x=60|y=115|z=119|title=Tussock railyard}}
:-- {{SLurl|region=Tussock|x=38|y=149|z=121|title=Freight yard}}
</TD>
<TD>
[[Image:SLRR_System_Map.jpg|400px|center]]
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

==Other Railway initiatives==
There are several other gauge railroads in SL and private group initiatives, some on private land, some on Linden land. 
This is an alphabetic list of some examples. The different systems are not necessarily compatible with SLRR standards.

*Caledon National Railway {{SLurl
|region=Caledon On Sea
|x=199
|y=177
|z=24
|title=Caledon On Sea Station
}}
*[[GSLR]] - [[GSLR|The Great Second Life Railway]] {{SLurl
|region=Purple
|x=136
|y=206
|z=26
|title=Purple right of way Station/Dock
}}
*Lackawanna Railroad (New York) {{SLurl
|region=SouthernTier New York
|x=204
|y=79
|z=23
|title=Lackawanna Railroad Station
}}
*LHRR - Lionheart Continental Railroad {{SLurl
|region=Lionheart Pumbaa
|x=179
|y=147
|z=28
|title=LHRR Pumbaa Station
}}
*[http://world.secondlife.com/group/d47adf74-2503-ef83-85fc-b7befa691b56 Loco Motives] - multi-region SLRR-gauge layouts
*[[ONSR]] - [[ONSR|Okemo, Nakiska, and Southern Railway]] {{SLurl
|region=Smithers Bluff
|x=241
|y=25
|z=27
|title=Smithers Bluff Station
}}

==Source==
The above information was compiled by various SL Residents including Moundsa Mayo, Jer Straaf, Damion Goodman and Dougie Flossberg.

==Also See==
Here is ''a list of Related resources''. You can find more information about the SLRR and other Rail related articles on these wiki pages and external websites.
* [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_standards|SLRR standards]]
* [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History|SLRR History]]
* [[Second Life Railroad/SLRR Switch|SLRR Switch]]
* [[Linden_Vehicle_Tutorial]]
* [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=physics Physics related LSL on LSLwiki.net]
* [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=vehicles Vehicle related LSL on LSLwiki.net]
* [http://world.secondlife.com/group/d012db1d-563e-e813-df8a-f1d413df4c3a Virtual Railway Consortium] - [http://www.virtualrailwayconsortium.org/ External website]

2010-09-07T22:29:23Z

Jer Straaf: /* Moving page */

{{talk}}

== I haven't forgotten about this... ==

but, pardon for my delayed response, because my attention has been focused on critical deadlines here at Linden Lab. I will say this:

* Talk pages can be an awkward place to have a conversation. As suggested, maybe some of you need to discuss this in realtime.
* I lack extensive firsthand experience with the disputed SLRR (and related) events, so I don't have a strong stance on matters as it relates to official Linden policy, compared to something in my domain expertise. So I forwarded this to Michael Linden of the [[LDPW]]. To clarify, I'm unable to meaningfully mediate beyond broad wiki guidelines, but will make sure those are followed, or offenders' wiki edit privileges will be revoked.
* If there continues to still be conflict over what belongs in a single page and consensus can't be reached, I recommend that '''''new'' pages with their own perspective should be created''', all linked reciprocally so that visitors can read them and make up their own minds. That way, each of the different groups involved in this can present their side of the story without feeling trampled. But "edit warring" must stop.

{{TorSig}} on 2010-09-07 @ 9:19 AM Pacific

:Awesomness!-- '''[[User:Fred_Gandt|Fred Gandt]]''' ([[User talk:Fred_Gandt|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fred_Gandt|contribs]]) 20:52, 7 September 2010 (UTC) 
:Thank you Torley. This is a process, not a crisis. When all this talk fades away we will be left with a great article. [[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 22:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC) 

==Moving page==

I have moved the [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History_2010|SLRR History from 2010 and beyond]] to this [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History_2010|new page]]. 2005 to 2009 can still be found at [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History]]. The old page gotten larger than the 32K maximum. --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 17:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 
 
To Stryker, this is not a good idea, the history must remain on a single page. 
It is long because it was not written succinctly, some text was copied/pasted in it's entirety and not edited down for this wiki topic. 
The only headings needed are "2008" etc., a subheadings for every item is not necessary. 
Your suggestion to "find the latest SLRR information on the history 2010 page" makes absolutely no sense. 
Also, there is no such thing as a "history beyond the present." Up to date information should be placed on the SLRR main topic page only. 
Would you like to change it back to the way it was? or shall I... 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 10:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:* For editing purposes it's much easier to use sub-headings. So I suggest to keep those. Seeing as the documents will be added to continually it probably wise to split them at some point in time anyway. I could reverse the order of the document... but to be honest that makes no sense to me. You start a book by reading from chapter 1. Not from the last chapter backward. Lets leave the pages as they are arranged now. --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 10:20, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
You have not presented any valid reasoning in support of this horrible change and you have obviously not understood my sound reasoning for returning the history to a single page format. 
I will contact Torley Linden immediately, he can adjudicate this matter. 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 11:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:* Reasoning in a nutshell again then: 1). The wiki editor if self gives a warning when a page gets larger then 32K. 2). The subheadings are needed for ease of editing and the index. 3). Pages are written and read from the top down and clearly marked they continue on other pages. 4) I have immediately accommodated your 'concern' by adding additional links in the description of both pages. 
:* I agree with the fact there is no "history beyond the present". So you may want to come up with a better term for that. The pages are now fully linked and reverting it will cause links on other pages to fail. And just because you want something does not mean that I automatically have to agree. I still think its best to leave the pages as they are arranged now. --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 11:20, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
I have edited the entire article for conciseness, eliminating extraneous information and creating a place in "Other Railway Initiatives" for the VRC-specific information as Torley has suggested. 
The article looks really good now and contains all of the public information about the SLRR. 
I spent a lot of time on this initially and have now spent even more making the article readable and more objective. Do not undo any of these changes without consulting Torley Linden. 
The "history of the future" page that Stryker Jenkins created can now be easily placed back into its proper place on the SLRR History page. 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 00:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

 
jer Straaf had me look at this streamlined version and it looks really good. The old version was too long and too confusing plus it was not objective. All of the important information is still there. I contributed information to the original article and I am the founder of the largest railroad group in Second Life, the SLRR Rail Group. I have railroad stations all over the SLRR and agree that it is not right to list them under the topic "Second Life Railroad." Moundsa and Stryker need to stop pretending that they own the SLRR in world and that they own this wiki topic, we ALL own it. Jer has done more for personal railroading and "saving the rails" than almost anybody, his input should be respected. To Stryker, I saw the games you played with the edits, do not remove this message without my permission! [[User:DOUGIE Flossberg|DOUGIE Flossberg]] 04:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 
: I tend to disagree, its unclear to me why large portions with good factual information have been removed. I agree with Torley, could you and Jer detail the reasons behind the changes, in particular the larger deletes?[[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 19:30, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Vaughn, Which parts do you agree with if you only "tend" to disagree? Please re-read my comments, it's all there. Your VRC group's leadership has begun putting your VRC advertisements back into the article already and have deleted the category I made for the VRC in "Other Railway Initiatives" in opposition to what Torley suggested. This is a citizenship issue with your VRC, yet again. ONLY official SLRR stations should be listed here. VRC railroad stations are no more official than any other resident-built stations, and there are hundreds of resident-built stations along the SLRR. [[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 23:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 
Objectivity is paramount surely? Why are some resident locations so shamelessly plugged? This page should not be used in such a manner I would say, unless maybe someone wants to canvas all neighbours along the SLRR...slrr-yellowpages.com is available to anyone who wishes to set something up along those lines. I can see the logic in maybe mentioning landmarks such as the hobo area, crossings, that kind of thing, but I also feel that such detail would be better elsewhere and this page is best when concise, clear and a starting point for further information and investigation. Use of all of the protected routes is mostly about peoples need to explore and find things for themselves, the page should be a good starting point, not a good reason to minimise the client, grab a drink, and put your reading glasses on. May I quote 5 simple words which may also help? What, where, when, how, why.[[User:Yevad Doobie|Yevad Doobie]] 03:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
: Ok, this gets us nowhere, much more has been removed than justified. I will compile a detailed list of facts that are in my view on topic, so we know what we are talking about .[[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 04:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 
I edited for brevity and did not change any essential informational content in the process. But Stryker has been busy again: 
- I count known train sales and correctly say that "thousands of residents have personal trains" and for some reason Stryker edits it and says "very many trains." Why? 
- Standards have existed for several years and Stryker incorrectly states that standard-setting began at a meeting last month. I take it out, he puts it back in. 
- I take out the VRC's blatant advertising, Stryker puts it back in. I make a place for the VRC in "Other Railway Initiatives" and Stryker deletes it. 
<strike>- The "SLRR logo" is a picture of one of Stryker's products on [https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1569050 SLX] and is not something you would ever find on the SLRR. </strike> Images removed by --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 10:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC) Stop editing my comments! Make your own! [[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 10:10, 6 September 2010 (UTC) These are normal Wiki procedures Jer.--[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 10:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC) 
And his map? It is biased, out-of-date and speculative. 
- Stryker keeps manipulating the "Source" sections too, the VRC did not "initially collect" this widely available public information, I have been distributing some of it for years. And who are these "and
others associated with other SLRR related groups" to which Stryker refers? My contributions were not made representing any SL group! What is your agenda here? And Michael Linden is only a source for the names of
the rail lines? Get real. 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 09:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC) 
 

I recommend that Stryker and Jer meet inworld (along with any and all interested parties) to discuss how best to work together on this material. It would seem the only way a meeting could be productive is if a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chairman chair] was employed. The chair should be someone who has no bias. Do the wiki a favor and consider this suggestion seriously, please. -- '''[[User:Fred_Gandt|Fred Gandt]]''' ([[User talk:Fred_Gandt|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fred_Gandt|contribs]]) 13:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 
I have reattached the 2010 history text to its proper place. 
Stryker, do not use my railroading locations as "points of interest" to justify putting your VRC advertisements into the list of SLRR stations. ONLY official LL stations should appear in the list! 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 22:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 
Wew, things move fast here, i was am only half way trough my list of proposed edits. What happend to talking in the talk page to reach consensus? :(
I don't think a chair is needed , just common sense and good manners should do. I will complete my suggested changes - with justification for each modification, and put that up for discussion. [[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 06:53, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
: I change my mind. So much of the page has been removed that the task of restoring it -given the current atmosphere- is daunting. I prefer to spend my time in more productive ways. [[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 21:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<BR<
 
: Sorry Vaughn, I don't buy that. I think you looked at it and realized that all I removed was a bunch of extraneous detail that puffed up the article. JMHO...[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 22:29, 7 September 2010 (UTC) 
 

== For simplicity's sake... ==

@Jer It isn't clear to me which specific passages you find objectionable. I won't assume and I don't have the luxury of time to look through all edits, so please quote and summarize with ''specific actionables''. Otherwise, others have a hard time understanding what you mean.

Since there's a lot going on here, it may help to start fresh knowing that: ''alternate views'' can be presented within an article from each perspective. For example, "While Bob saw the burgeoning steampunk movement as important to e-commerce, Alice disagreed because it hurt her dieselpunk fashions. Complicating the matter further, John saw an opportunity to merge the two."

The point is, '''attribute these perspectives, and make it clear they aren't universally shared'''. Similar to how Wikipedia has both "positive", "negative", and "mixed" reviews cited in the "critical response" of movie reviews — [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inception_%28film%29#Critical_response ''Inception''] is a particularly weighty example.

{{TorSig}} on 2010-09-01 @ 5:29 AM Pacific

 

:* retracting older comments --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 17:04, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Second Life Railroad/SLRR History

2010-09-07T22:19:19Z

Jer Straaf: /* I haven't forgotten about this... */

{{talk}}

== I haven't forgotten about this... ==

but, pardon for my delayed response, because my attention has been focused on critical deadlines here at Linden Lab. I will say this:

* Talk pages can be an awkward place to have a conversation. As suggested, maybe some of you need to discuss this in realtime.
* I lack extensive firsthand experience with the disputed SLRR (and related) events, so I don't have a strong stance on matters as it relates to official Linden policy, compared to something in my domain expertise. So I forwarded this to Michael Linden of the [[LDPW]]. To clarify, I'm unable to meaningfully mediate beyond broad wiki guidelines, but will make sure those are followed, or offenders' wiki edit privileges will be revoked.
* If there continues to still be conflict over what belongs in a single page and consensus can't be reached, I recommend that '''''new'' pages with their own perspective should be created''', all linked reciprocally so that visitors can read them and make up their own minds. That way, each of the different groups involved in this can present their side of the story without feeling trampled. But "edit warring" must stop.

{{TorSig}} on 2010-09-07 @ 9:19 AM Pacific

:Awesomness!-- '''[[User:Fred_Gandt|Fred Gandt]]''' ([[User talk:Fred_Gandt|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fred_Gandt|contribs]]) 20:52, 7 September 2010 (UTC) 
:Thank you Torley. This is a process, not a crisis. When all this talk fades away we will be left with a great article. [[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 22:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC) 

==Moving page==

I have moved the [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History_2010|SLRR History from 2010 and beyond]] to this [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History_2010|new page]]. 2005 to 2009 can still be found at [[Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_History]]. The old page gotten larger than the 32K maximum. --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 17:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 
 
To Stryker, this is not a good idea, the history must remain on a single page. 
It is long because it was not written succinctly, some text was copied/pasted in it's entirety and not edited down for this wiki topic. 
The only headings needed are "2008" etc., a subheadings for every item is not necessary. 
Your suggestion to "find the latest SLRR information on the history 2010 page" makes absolutely no sense. 
Also, there is no such thing as a "history beyond the present." Up to date information should be placed on the SLRR main topic page only. 
Would you like to change it back to the way it was? or shall I... 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 10:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:* For editing purposes it's much easier to use sub-headings. So I suggest to keep those. Seeing as the documents will be added to continually it probably wise to split them at some point in time anyway. I could reverse the order of the document... but to be honest that makes no sense to me. You start a book by reading from chapter 1. Not from the last chapter backward. Lets leave the pages as they are arranged now. --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 10:20, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
You have not presented any valid reasoning in support of this horrible change and you have obviously not understood my sound reasoning for returning the history to a single page format. 
I will contact Torley Linden immediately, he can adjudicate this matter. 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 11:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:* Reasoning in a nutshell again then: 1). The wiki editor if self gives a warning when a page gets larger then 32K. 2). The subheadings are needed for ease of editing and the index. 3). Pages are written and read from the top down and clearly marked they continue on other pages. 4) I have immediately accommodated your 'concern' by adding additional links in the description of both pages. 
:* I agree with the fact there is no "history beyond the present". So you may want to come up with a better term for that. The pages are now fully linked and reverting it will cause links on other pages to fail. And just because you want something does not mean that I automatically have to agree. I still think its best to leave the pages as they are arranged now. --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 11:20, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
I have edited the entire article for conciseness, eliminating extraneous information and creating a place in "Other Railway Initiatives" for the VRC-specific information as Torley has suggested. 
The article looks really good now and contains all of the public information about the SLRR. 
I spent a lot of time on this initially and have now spent even more making the article readable and more objective. Do not undo any of these changes without consulting Torley Linden. 
The "history of the future" page that Stryker Jenkins created can now be easily placed back into its proper place on the SLRR History page. 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 00:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

 
jer Straaf had me look at this streamlined version and it looks really good. The old version was too long and too confusing plus it was not objective. All of the important information is still there. I contributed information to the original article and I am the founder of the largest railroad group in Second Life, the SLRR Rail Group. I have railroad stations all over the SLRR and agree that it is not right to list them under the topic "Second Life Railroad." Moundsa and Stryker need to stop pretending that they own the SLRR in world and that they own this wiki topic, we ALL own it. Jer has done more for personal railroading and "saving the rails" than almost anybody, his input should be respected. To Stryker, I saw the games you played with the edits, do not remove this message without my permission! [[User:DOUGIE Flossberg|DOUGIE Flossberg]] 04:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 
: I tend to disagree, its unclear to me why large portions with good factual information have been removed. I agree with Torley, could you and Jer detail the reasons behind the changes, in particular the larger deletes?[[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 19:30, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Vaughn, Which parts do you agree with if you only "tend" to disagree? Please re-read my comments, it's all there. Your VRC group's leadership has begun putting your VRC advertisements back into the article already and have deleted the category I made for the VRC in "Other Railway Initiatives" in opposition to what Torley suggested. This is a citizenship issue with your VRC, yet again. ONLY official SLRR stations should be listed here. VRC railroad stations are no more official than any other resident-built stations, and there are hundreds of resident-built stations along the SLRR. [[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 23:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 
Objectivity is paramount surely? Why are some resident locations so shamelessly plugged? This page should not be used in such a manner I would say, unless maybe someone wants to canvas all neighbours along the SLRR...slrr-yellowpages.com is available to anyone who wishes to set something up along those lines. I can see the logic in maybe mentioning landmarks such as the hobo area, crossings, that kind of thing, but I also feel that such detail would be better elsewhere and this page is best when concise, clear and a starting point for further information and investigation. Use of all of the protected routes is mostly about peoples need to explore and find things for themselves, the page should be a good starting point, not a good reason to minimise the client, grab a drink, and put your reading glasses on. May I quote 5 simple words which may also help? What, where, when, how, why.[[User:Yevad Doobie|Yevad Doobie]] 03:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
: Ok, this gets us nowhere, much more has been removed than justified. I will compile a detailed list of facts that are in my view on topic, so we know what we are talking about .[[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 04:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 
I edited for brevity and did not change any essential informational content in the process. But Stryker has been busy again: 
- I count known train sales and correctly say that "thousands of residents have personal trains" and for some reason Stryker edits it and says "very many trains." Why? 
- Standards have existed for several years and Stryker incorrectly states that standard-setting began at a meeting last month. I take it out, he puts it back in. 
- I take out the VRC's blatant advertising, Stryker puts it back in. I make a place for the VRC in "Other Railway Initiatives" and Stryker deletes it. 
<strike>- The "SLRR logo" is a picture of one of Stryker's products on [https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1569050 SLX] and is not something you would ever find on the SLRR. </strike> Images removed by --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 10:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC) Stop editing my comments! Make your own! [[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 10:10, 6 September 2010 (UTC) These are normal Wiki procedures Jer.--[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 10:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC) 
And his map? It is biased, out-of-date and speculative. 
- Stryker keeps manipulating the "Source" sections too, the VRC did not "initially collect" this widely available public information, I have been distributing some of it for years. And who are these "and
others associated with other SLRR related groups" to which Stryker refers? My contributions were not made representing any SL group! What is your agenda here? And Michael Linden is only a source for the names of
the rail lines? Get real. 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 09:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC) 
 

I recommend that Stryker and Jer meet inworld (along with any and all interested parties) to discuss how best to work together on this material. It would seem the only way a meeting could be productive is if a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chairman chair] was employed. The chair should be someone who has no bias. Do the wiki a favor and consider this suggestion seriously, please. -- '''[[User:Fred_Gandt|Fred Gandt]]''' ([[User talk:Fred_Gandt|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fred_Gandt|contribs]]) 13:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 
I have reattached the 2010 history text to its proper place. 
Stryker, do not use my railroading locations as "points of interest" to justify putting your VRC advertisements into the list of SLRR stations. ONLY official LL stations should appear in the list! 
[[User:Jer Straaf|Jer Straaf]] 22:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 
Wew, things move fast here, i was am only half way trough my list of proposed edits. What happend to talking in the talk page to reach consensus? :(
I don't think a chair is needed , just common sense and good manners should do. I will complete my suggested changes - with justification for each modification, and put that up for discussion. [[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 06:53, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
: I change my mind. So much of the page has been removed that the task of restoring it -given the current atmosphere- is daunting. I prefer to spend my time in more productive ways. [[User:Vaughn Deluca|Vaughn Deluca]] 21:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

== For simplicity's sake... ==

@Jer It isn't clear to me which specific passages you find objectionable. I won't assume and I don't have the luxury of time to look through all edits, so please quote and summarize with ''specific actionables''. Otherwise, others have a hard time understanding what you mean.

Since there's a lot going on here, it may help to start fresh knowing that: ''alternate views'' can be presented within an article from each perspective. For example, "While Bob saw the burgeoning steampunk movement as important to e-commerce, Alice disagreed because it hurt her dieselpunk fashions. Complicating the matter further, John saw an opportunity to merge the two."

The point is, '''attribute these perspectives, and make it clear they aren't universally shared'''. Similar to how Wikipedia has both "positive", "negative", and "mixed" reviews cited in the "critical response" of movie reviews — [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inception_%28film%29#Critical_response ''Inception''] is a particularly weighty example.

{{TorSig}} on 2010-09-01 @ 5:29 AM Pacific

 

:* retracting older comments --[[User:Stryker Jenkins|Stryker J]] 17:04, 2 September 2010 (UTC)