Second Life Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:28:46Z

Kelly Linden: /* Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</pre>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</pre>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<pre>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<pre>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</pre>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<pre>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</pre>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:28:31Z

Kelly Linden: /* DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</pre>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</pre>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<pre>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<pre>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</pre>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:28:14Z

Kelly Linden: /* The Magic */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</pre>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</pre>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<pre>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:27:57Z

Kelly Linden: /* llSetPrimMediaParams */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</pre>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</pre>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<lsl>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:27:43Z

Kelly Linden: /* HTTP-In */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</lsl>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</pre>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<pre>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<lsl>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:27:32Z

Kelly Linden: /* llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</lsl>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</pre>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<lsl>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:26:52Z

Kelly Linden: /* llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</lsl>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<lsl>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</lsl>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links

<pre>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</pre>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<lsl>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:26:18Z

Kelly Linden: /* llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In */

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</lsl>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<lsl>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</lsl>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links
<code>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</code>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<lsl>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

User:Ama Omega/archive/lsl hacks

2015-12-07T18:21:15Z

Kelly Linden: Undo revision 1142711 by Ama Omega (talk)

== Shared Media and HTTP-In ==
Pre-Viewer 2.0 interfacing with an LSL script is a jumble of llDialog, chats, touches and possibly external web sites. With Shared Media that all changes.

One step at a time .......
=== llSetPrimMediaParams ===
* Use llSetPrimMediaParams to set the url and various parameters on the face of a prim via LSL.
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,"http://google.com", // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,"http://google.com", // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
}
</lsl>

=== data: urls ===
There is a special url type: "data:" that lets you send the html ''in the url''. Paste the below into your browser's address bar.
<pre>
data:text/html,<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>
</pre>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls ===
* Thus you can build arbitrary html in your LSL script and display it on the face of the prim
<lsl>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}
default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
}
}
</lsl>

=== HTTP-In ===
* Scripts can become web servers via HTTP-In
<lsl>
default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
llSay(0,"URL is: " + body);
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSay(0,"Received page request.");
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"OK");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== llSetPrimMediaParams for data: urls that link back to HTTP-In ===
* Which means you can make web pages that trigger other page views via http-in links
<lsl>
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html);
llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
show("<h1>This is a test</h1><h2>This is a test</h2><h3>This is a test</h3>");
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
show("<h1><a href='" + body + "/?get=owner'>Owner ID</a> <a href='" + body + "/?get=object'>Object ID</a></h1>");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string get = get_query(id,"get");
if (get == "owner")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Owner is: " + (string)llGetOwner());
}
else if (get == "object")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Object is: " + (string)llGetKey());
}
else
{
llHTTPResponse(id,400,"huh?");
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== Forms ===
* You can put forms in data: urls
<pre>
data:text/html,<form action="http://google.com/search" method="GET">Search:<input type="text" name="q"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></form>
</pre>

=== The Magic ===
* You can set the script HTTP-In url as the form action to get the results of the form sent back to the script
<lsl>
string html_base =
"<h1><form action='%url%' method='GET'>
Floating Text:<input type='text' name='text'> 
<input type='submit' value='Set'>
</form></h1>";

string url;

integer r;
show(string html)
{
html = "data:text/html," + llEscapeURL(html) + "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

string replace_all(string src, string target, string replace)
{
return llDumpList2String(llParseString2List(src,[target],[]),replace);
}

string get_query(key id, string name)
{
string query = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-query-string");
query = replace_all(query,"+"," ");
query = llUnescapeURL(query);
list q = llParseString2List(query,["=","&",";"],[]);
integer i = llListFindList(q,[name]);
if (i != -1)
{
return llList2String(q,i+1);
}

return "";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
llSetText(get_query(id,"text"),<1,1,0>,1);
show(replace_all(html_base,"%url%",url));
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"Loading....");
}
}
}
</lsl>

=== The Limits ===
* 1024 bytes per url
* llEscapeURLs means non-alphanumeric characters are 3 bytes (ouch)
** I'm actually not clear on if this is really needed. I seem to sometimes get blank pages if I don't but some pages render fine with out it. Maybe there is a subset of symbols that must be escaped and escaping only those would ease some of the space constraints?
* Must force another page view after form submission since HTTP-In can't generate HTML
* No real way of knowing which avatar is interacting with the HTML

=== The Tricks ===
* <base href="<http-in-url>/">
** HTTP-In urls are long, especially if escaped. In a page that includes more than a single link back to the script, or more than a single form, this can save a lot of space.
* Tiny urls
** You can use url shortening services to create short links to long data urls. In theory this should let you get past the 1k limit quite nicely, however there is overhead in setting up the tiny url.
=== The future? ===
I think there is a lot more potential here than what I have outlined .... if you have ideas or work out great new hacks let me know! Also let me know if it is ok to share those hacks with others. :)
* svg?
* javascript?
* ajax?

=== DHTML / Javascript (Tali Rosca) ===
Tali Rosca sent me the code to render the output of HTTP-In directly. I've wrapped her magic into the build_url and build_response functions in the example below. This example renders a page that is around 3.5k bytes - well past the 1k limit of urls. 
'''Pros''':
* Navigation is much smoother and feels more natural
* Only limited by script memory
'''Cons''':
* Links are extremely large: 296 bytes for a link to just the base http-in url.

<lsl>
string url; // Our base http-in url
integer r; // Used for uniqueness in PrimMedia urls
integer page; // The page number.

show(string html)
{
html += "";

llSetPrimMediaParams(0, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,html, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,html, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,512, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,512]); // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
}

// This creates a data: url that will render the output of the http-in url
// given.
string build_url(string url)
{
return "data:text/html,"
+ llEscapeURL("<html><head><script src='" + url
+ "' type='text/javascript'></script></head><body onload='init()'></body></html>");
}

// This wraps the html you want to display so that it will be shown from links
// made with build_url
string build_response(string body)
{
return "function init() {document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0].innerHTML='" + body + "';}";
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
url = body + "/";

show(build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page)));
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
string content = "<h1>path: " + path + "</h1>";
page = (integer)llGetSubString(path,5,5);
if (page > 0) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page - 1)) + "\">Previous</a> ";
if (page < 9) content += "<a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(page + 1)) + "\">Next</a> ";
integer k;
for(;k<10;++k)
{
if (k == page)
content += " Page " + (string)k;
else
content += " <a href=\"" + build_url(url + "page" + (string)(k)) + "\">Page " + (string)k + "</a>";
}
content += " This page is " + (string)(llStringLength(build_response(content)) + 37) + " bytes long.";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,build_response(content));
}
}
}
</lsl>
* I'm not quite sure if it is possible to hook up a form using this method. Ideas?

=== Another javascript boot strapping method (Vegas Silverweb) ===
This one makes it pretty easy to build out some arbitrary length web pages, using http-in's output directly. Loading between pages is kinda slow.
<lsl>
string URL;

string get(string page)
{
if (page == "index")
{
return "<h1>Index</h1>This is the index page. <a href='page1.html'>Link to page 1</a>";
}
else if (page == "page1")
{
return "<h1>Page 1</h1>This is page 1!. <a href ='index.html'>Link to the index page.</a>";
}
else return "Unknown page.";
}

string serve(string page)
{
return "document.write(atob('"+llStringToBase64(get(page))+"'));";
}

integer R;
load(string page)
{
string content="data:text/html;base64,"
+llStringToBase64("<html><head><base href='"+URL+"/'></head><body>"+
"<script src='"+page+".js' type='text/javascript'>"+
"</script></html>");

llSetPrimMediaParams(0,[
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,content,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_ZOOM,FALSE,
PRIM_MEDIA_FIRST_CLICK_INTERACT,TRUE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_INTERACT,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_ANYONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL,PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE,
PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE
]);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llRequestURL();
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
URL = body;
load("index");
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Unable to get url!");
}
else if (method == "GET")
{
string path_raw = llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info");
if (path_raw == "")
{
// No path, assume index.html
path_raw = "/index.html";
}

list path = llParseString2List(llGetSubString(path_raw,1,-1),["."],[]);
string page = llList2String(path,0);
string type = llList2String(path,1);

if (type == "js")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,200,serve(page));
}
else if (type == "html")
{
llHTTPResponse(id,100,"");
load(page);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

Json usage in LSL

2013-08-28T16:52:12Z

Kelly Linden: /* Overview */

{{LSL Header|lm=*}}{{LSLC|}}{{LSLC|JSON|*Json usage in LSL}}
==Overview==
[http://www.json.org/ JSON] (JavaScript Object Notation) is a language and architecture independent, lightweight text format used for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialization serializing data structures], much as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML XML] does for documents but in a much more compact form. At its most basic level JSON text is merely a string, but one that follows a [http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4627 set of rules] in it's construction. These rules allow the encoding, manipulation, storing, transmission and decoding of complex data structures in a terse, readable form. JSON text can be used for interacting with other applications that are json aware and is commonly used for web client-server communications.

JSON text can also be used to implement [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_(computer_science) primitive objects], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database databases], complex data structures such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Array_data_type multi-dimensional arrays] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associative_array associative arrays], as well as abstract data types such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIFO_(computing) stacks], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFO_(computing) queues] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_list linked lists]. Of course, lacking native support in LSL for any of that, such implementations would be somewhat primitive and require coding of the necessary functionality (such as getAllKeys(), getArrayLength(), deleteItem(), as well as iterator operators etc). But these limitations should not stop anyone from considering adding JSON text to their "coding toolbelt", since there are possible benefits such as data encapsulation, lessened memory footprint of lengthy lists, as well as nesting of compound data structures, to name a few.

An LSL based test script of these functions can be found at [[Json_usage_in_LSL/TestScript]].

==Type Conversions==

Json has native representation for:
* numbers - directly mappable to LSL Integer and Float (json numbers without a decimal point are assumed to be Integers, those with a decimal point are Floats)
* strings - identical to LSL [[String]]
* arrays - a list of values of any type: directly analogous to an LSL [[List]]
* objects - represented in LSL as a strided list of name/value pairs (see below re: values)
* the constants 'true' and 'false' - directly mapped to and from the LSL constants [[JSON_TRUE]] and [[JSON_FALSE]]
* the constant 'null' - directly mapped to and from the LSL constant [[JSON_NULL]]
* All other LSL types (Key, Rotation, and Vector) are implicitly converted to their string representation when converting to Json; when converting from Json to LSL, these values are returned as String values, so the script must explicitly convert using the existing conversion methods.

==New LSL Methods==
===Specifying Json Elements===

[[llJsonGetValue]], [[llJsonValueType]] and [[llJsonSetValue]] each take the same first two arguments:
1. a JSON value in the form of a [[String|string]], and
2. a set of specifiers in the form of a [[List|list]].
[[llJsonSetValue]] additionally takes a third an argument:
3. a JSON value in the form of a [[String|string]].

To understand specifiers one must generally understand that JSON data is structured in a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nested_set_model nested set model]. LSL's built-in JSON parser uses the supplied "specifiers" list to perform [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal tree traversal] on the nodes of the supplied JSON [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(data_structure) tree data structure]. A JSON tree may be visualized as a set of hierarchical levels of parents and children. Each level is contained within '''curly braces {for objects, which are lists of members, that are defined as key-value pairs}''' or '''square braces [for arrays of elements, that are defined as single values]'''.

When JSON is presented in human-readable form, it is traditionally formatted such that the first parent level of organization is indented farthest to the left, and each more deeply-nested child level of organization is indented farther and farther to the right. The left-most level of nodes have no parents, only children. They begin with the very first member that appears after the initial "{" character of the JSON string (if it starts as an object), or the first element that appears after the initial "[" character (if it starts as an array). A node is considered as being a parent only if it has a non-null JSON object or array as its value.

With that parent-child tree data structure in mind, the specifiers list that you supply in the above functions tell LSL's JSON parser how to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(data_structure)#Traversal_methods walk the tree] of the JSON data that you have supplied with the first argument of the function. The first specifier in the list tells the LSL JSON parser which node to walk to first. The next specifier tells it which of that node's children to walk to. Once the LSL parser has "walked" to the last destination node specified by your list of specifiers, it will then perform the function on the JSON value that it finds there.

If, anywhere along the line, any of the specified nodes do not exist, [[llJsonGetValue]] and [[llJsonValueType]] will almost always return [[JSON_INVALID]]. However there is a rare exception: if any specifier in the list leads to a node that has no characters in its JSON string value, [[JSON_NULL]] will be returned instead of [[JSON_INVALID]]—no matter what might come after it in the specifiers list. For example in:

<lsl>
string example = "{\"parent\":,}";
string test1 = llJsonGetValue(example,["parent"]);
string test2 = llJsonGetValue(example,["parent","child that doesn't exist","etc."]);
</lsl>
test1 and test2 will both be [[JSON_NULL]].

The same is true for arrays: a specifier pointing to any element of a valid array will return [[JSON_NULL]] anywhere there is no JSON value specified at given position in the array:

<lsl>
string example = "{\"parent\":[ , , , , ]}";
string test1 = llJsonGetValue(example,["parent",2]);
string test2 = llJsonGetValue(example,["parent",1,"child that does not exist","etc."]);
</lsl>
test1 and test2 will also both be [[JSON_NULL]].

These types of scenarios may be useful in determining valid JSON paths for the setter: in all the scenarios where [[JSON_NULL]] is returned, the same set of specifiers is able to be successfully used for [[llJsonSetValue]]. However if [[JSON_INVALID]] is returned, there is no guarantee the setter won't return an error.

For [[llJsonGetValue]], if a JSON value is present at the specified node, it will be returned by the function. The value may an object that contains no valid JSON data, so be careful. Such an object will be deemed a [[JSON_OBJECT]] by [[llJsonValueType]], even if its contents are not valid JSON. Therefore it's always best to check the [[llJsonValueType]] of any specified value to make sure it's valid before using the information in your script.

{{LSL Tip|Counter-intuitiveness warning! If there exist multiple members with the same name in the same object at the same child-level, a specifier that points to that name will be interpreted by LSL as pointing to the member closest to the end of the string! This behavior is opposite from the behavior of [[llListFindList]] and [[llSubStringIndex]], which always find the match that is closest to the beginning of the list or string, respectively!}}

The specifiers list may only consist of strings/keys (for object member keys), and integers (for array element positions), which define a path to the desired value in a JSON compound object.

* An empty list specifies the entire Json value.
* If the list is not empty, each element of the list is used to select the element at the same level of nesting in the JSON value:
** if the specifier list element is a string, then the corresponding element in the json value must be an object and the list element selects the value whose JSON name exactly matches the string.
** if the specifier list element is an integer, then the corresponding element in the json value must be an array and the list element is used as a zero-based index into the Json array.
* Additionally llJsonSetValue accepts [[JSON_APPEND]] as a specifier to indicate appending the value to the end of the array at that level. Be careful because If the value at that level is not an array, it will be overwritten and replaced with the array you're setting!

For example, given the JSON value:
<javascript>
{
"alpha": 1,
"beta": [
"x",
"y",
"z"
],
"gamma": {
"a": 3.2,
"b": true
}
}
</javascript>
the contents of the string returned would be:
<lsl>
llJsonGetValue ( value, [ "alpha" ] ) ⇒ 1
llJsonGetValue ( value, [ "beta" ] ) ⇒ [ "x", "y", "z" ]
llJsonGetValue ( value, [ "beta", 2 ] ) ⇒ z
llJsonGetValue ( value, [ "gamma", "a" ] ) ⇒ 3.2
</lsl>

llJsonSetValue(string json, list specifiers, string value_to_set) will force the resulting JSON to conform with the specifiers supplied, as long as the specified path is traversable.

==Json Interrogation and Validation==

To determine the type of a json value:

<lsl>string type = llJsonValueType( string json, list specifiers );</lsl>

:returns one of several following special constants (see table below). Each constant has a name, JSON_XXXX, which unlike most LSL constants is not an integer—instead, it's a single-character string. The single character is not printable but has a specific escape value (if run through llEscapeURL) in the range of %EF%B7%90–97. The below table shows each constant's invocation and escape code:

{{LSL Constants/JSON}}

==Json to LSL Conversion==

To directly extract a Json value to an LSL string:

string value = llJsonGetValue( string json, list specifiers );
* ''json'' is a string containing a valid json array or object value
* ''specifiers'' is a list of specifiers (see Specifying Json Elements)
* returns a json string
* if the specifiers do not indicate a value that exists in the input, [[JSON_INVALID]] is returned

To convert a json compound value (either an array or an object) to an LSL List:

list values = llJson2List( string json );
* ''json'' is a string containing a valid json array or object value
* If the string in json is not a valid json object or array a list with a single item matching the conversion above is returned.

==Recursive Parsing==

Since any value in a Json array or object may be any arbitrary type, including an array or object, the parsing methods must handle nested values. Nested arrays or objects are not converted, but remain LSL String values. If an LSL script needs to use the components in such a nested value, it must explicitly pass that string to the appropriate method. For example, the following json value is passed to llJson2List:
<javascript>
{
"alpha": 1,
"beta": [
"x",
"y",
"z"
],
"gamma": {
"a": 3.2,
"b": true
}
}
</javascript>
The result would be an LSL list with a stride of 2: the first elements of the 3 strides would be "alpha", "beta", and "gamma". The second element of the first stride would be the integer 1, but the second elements of the other two strides would be LSL strings containing the json representation of the array '[ "x", "y", "z" ]' and object '{ a: 3.2, b: true }' respectively.

==LSL to Json==

To convert a list to json:
string json = llList2Json( string type, list values );
* ''type'' must be either [[JSON_ARRAY]] or [[JSON_OBJECT]]
* ''values'' is the list to be converted to json.

:Produces an LSL String containing a Json compound value, either an array or an object depending on type, containing the values in the input list.

:If type is [[JSON_ARRAY]], the list may contain values of any LSL type; they are converted as described in Type Conversions above.

:If type is [[JSON_OBJECT]], the list must have a stride of 2. The first value of each stride must be a string. The second value of each stride may be any LSL type, and are converted as described in Type Conversions above. [[JSON_INVALID]] is returned if the stride is not 2.

:[[JSON_INVALID]] is returned if any other string or json type is specified as the type.

To directly set a Json value within a string:

string jsonresult = llJsonSetValue( string json, list specifiers, string value );
* ''json'' is a string containing a valid json array or object value
* ''specifiers'' is a list of specifiers (see [[#Specifying Json Elements]])
* ''value'' the value to be inserted into the specified place in json
* Returns the newly modified json string

:The only failure mode for llJsonSetValue is if an array index is specified in specifiers that is negative (but not [[JSON_APPEND]]) or more greater than the list size. In all other cases the json is modified so that the set can succeed. For example if an integer is specified for a level that is an object, the object will be removed completely and replaced with an array. If the object key does not exist it will be added, and [[JSON_APPEND]] or an index one larger than the last item in an array can be used to append to an array. These features are to allow building a Json string with llJsonSetValue.

==Recursive Construction of Compound Json Values==

Since LSL does not support nested lists, the construction method may only be used to convert a single level; to create a Json array or object whose values are nested arrays or objects, the LSL script must first construct the nested values and then pass those values as strings to another construction method call. For example, to construct the Json value:
<javascript>
{
"alpha": 1,
"beta": [
"x",
"y",
"z"
],
"gamma": {
"a": 3.2,
"b": true
}
}
</javascript>
The following sequence could be used:
<pre>
string gamma_value = llList2Json( JSON_OBJECT, [ "a", 3.2, "b", JSON_TRUE ] );
string beta_value = llList2Json( JSON_ARRAY, [ "x", "y", "z" ] );
string value = llList2Json( JSON_OBJECT,[ "alpha", 1, "beta", beta_value, "gamma", gamma_value ] );
</pre>
or the equivalent without the intermediate variables:
<lsl>
string value =
llList2Json( JSON_OBJECT,
["alpha", 1,
"beta", llList2Json( JSON_ARRAY, [ "x", "y", "z" ] ),
"gamma", llList2Json( JSON_OBJECT, [ "a", 3.2, "b", JSON_TRUE ] )]
);
</lsl>

'''''NOTE''''' the use of the '''JSON_TRUE''' constant in the above to obtain the bare word 'true' for the value of ["gamma", "b"]. If one had used the LSL constant TRUE, they would've incorrectly obtained an integer '1'. The same applies for 'false' and 'null', do not encode them as strings or use the LSL values, use the correct JSON_* type constants.

Json usage in LSL/TestScript

2013-08-28T16:51:08Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== JSON Test Framework == <lsl> // This is just the framework for creating new tests for LSL JSON functions without the tests. integer tests; integer fails; string typeName…"

== JSON Test Framework ==
<lsl>
// This is just the framework for creating new tests for LSL JSON functions without the tests.
integer tests;
integer fails;

string typeName(string type)
{
if (type == JSON_NUMBER) return "JSON_NUMBER";
if (type == JSON_INVALID) return "JSON_INVALID";
if (type == JSON_OBJECT) return "JSON_OBJECT";
if (type == JSON_ARRAY) return "JSON_ARRAY";
if (type == JSON_TRUE) return "JSON_TRUE";
if (type == JSON_FALSE) return "JSON_FALSE";
if (type == JSON_STRING) return "JSON_STRING";
if (type == JSON_NULL) return "JSON_NULL";
return type;
}

string listEntryTypeName(integer type)
{
list list_type_names = ["TYPE_INVALID", "TYPE_INTEGER", "TYPE_FLOAT", "TYPE_STRING", "TYPE_KEY", "TYPE_VECTOR", "TYPE_ROTATION"];
if(type >= llGetListLength(list_type_names)) return "UNKNOWN_LIST_TYPE";
return llList2String(list_type_names, type);
}

integer max(integer x, integer y) {
if( y > x ) return y;
return x;
}

integer verify(string message, string result, string expected)
{
++tests;
if (expected != result)
{
llOwnerSay("FAIL test " + message + ", expected: " + typeName(expected) + ", result: " + typeName(result));
++fails;
return 0;
}
return 1;
}

verify_list(string message, list result, list expected)
{
// First verify that the list lengths match before looking at the data types
verify(message + ": list length", (string)llGetListLength(result), (string)llGetListLength(expected));

// the CSV string comparison is probably enough to verify that the values stored are correct, but I want to check data type too.
integer i = max(llGetListLength(expected), llGetListLength(result));
while(--i >= 0)
{
verify(message + ": on list entry type comparison on index " + (string)i, listEntryTypeName(llGetListEntryType(result, i)),
listEntryTypeName(llGetListEntryType(expected, i)));
verify(message + ": on list value comparison on index " + (string)i, typeName(llList2String(result, i)), typeName(llList2String(expected, i)));
}
verify(message + ": llList2CSV comparison",llList2CSV(result),llList2CSV(expected));
}

run_tests()
{
// Add new tests here.
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llOwnerSay("Starting tests.");
run_tests();
llOwnerSay("Tests complete. Ran " + (string)tests + " tests with " + (string)fails + " failures.");
}

touch_start(integer n)
{
llOwnerSay("Starting tests.");
tests = 0;
fails = 0;
run_tests();
llOwnerSay("Tests complete. Ran " + (string)tests + " tests with " + (string)fails + " failures.");
}
}
</lsl>
== Full Test Script ==
<lsl>
// This test script verifies expected behavior or LSL JSON functions

integer tests;
integer fails;

string typeName(string type)
{
if (type == JSON_NUMBER) return "JSON_NUMBER";
if (type == JSON_INVALID) return "JSON_INVALID";
if (type == JSON_OBJECT) return "JSON_OBJECT";
if (type == JSON_ARRAY) return "JSON_ARRAY";
if (type == JSON_TRUE) return "JSON_TRUE";
if (type == JSON_FALSE) return "JSON_FALSE";
if (type == JSON_STRING) return "JSON_STRING";
if (type == JSON_NULL) return "JSON_NULL";
return type;
}

string listEntryTypeName(integer type)
{
list list_type_names = ["TYPE_INVALID", "TYPE_INTEGER", "TYPE_FLOAT", "TYPE_STRING", "TYPE_KEY", "TYPE_VECTOR", "TYPE_ROTATION"];
if(type >= llGetListLength(list_type_names)) return "UNKNOWN_LIST_TYPE";
return llList2String(list_type_names, type);
}

integer max(integer x, integer y) {
if( y > x ) return y;
return x;
}

integer verify(string message, string result, string expected)
{
++tests;
if (expected != result)
{
llOwnerSay("FAIL test " + message + ", expected: " + typeName(expected) + ", result: " + typeName(result));
++fails;
return 0;
}
return 1;
}

verify_list(string message, list result, list expected)
{
// First verify that the list lengths match before looking at the data types
verify(message + ": list length", (string)llGetListLength(result), (string)llGetListLength(expected));

// the CSV string comparison is probably enough to verify that the values stored are correct, but I want to check data type too.
integer i = max(llGetListLength(expected), llGetListLength(result));
while(--i >= 0)
{
verify(message + ": on list entry type comparison on index " + (string)i, listEntryTypeName(llGetListEntryType(result, i)),
listEntryTypeName(llGetListEntryType(expected, i)));
verify(message + ": on list value comparison on index " + (string)i, typeName(llList2String(result, i)), typeName(llList2String(expected, i)));
}
verify(message + ": llList2CSV comparison",llList2CSV(result),llList2CSV(expected));
}

test_types()
{
verify("Type of string",llJsonValueType("\"test\"",[]),JSON_STRING);
verify("Type of string, unquoted",llJsonValueType("test",[]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of invalid",llJsonValueType("test",[]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of integer",llJsonValueType((string)12,[]),JSON_NUMBER);
verify("Type of float",llJsonValueType((string)12.3,[]),JSON_NUMBER);
verify("Type of Inf (is unsupported by JSON standard)",llJsonValueType("Inf",[]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of NaN (is unsupported by JSON standard)",llJsonValueType("NaN",[]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of number",llJsonValueType("-123.4e-5",[]),JSON_NUMBER);
verify("Type of object",llJsonValueType("{\"a\":\"b\"}",[]),JSON_OBJECT);
// Expected to be OBJECT, since we don't do deep validation on input
//verify("Type of object, invalid/unquoted key",llJsonValueType("{a:\"b\"}",[]),JSON_INVALID);
// Expected to be OBJECT, since we don't do deep validation on input
//verify("Type of object, invalid/unquoted value",llJsonValueType("{\"a\":b}",[]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of array",llJsonValueType("[1,2,3]",[]),JSON_ARRAY);
verify("Type of array padded front",llJsonValueType(" [1,2,3]",[]),JSON_ARRAY);
verify("Type of array padded back",llJsonValueType("[1,2,3] ",[]),JSON_ARRAY);
verify("Type of array padded",llJsonValueType(" [1,2,3] ",[]),JSON_ARRAY);
verify("Type of true",llJsonValueType("true",[]),JSON_TRUE);
verify("Type of false",llJsonValueType("false",[]),JSON_FALSE);
verify("Type of null",llJsonValueType("null",[]),JSON_NULL);

// test traversal of llJsonValueType
string json = "[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6],\"c\":\"true\",\"d\":false}]";
verify("Type of [0]",llJsonValueType(json,[0]),JSON_ARRAY);
verify("Type of [0,1]",llJsonValueType(json,[0,1]),JSON_NUMBER);
verify("Type of [1]",llJsonValueType(json,[1]),JSON_OBJECT);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\"]",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b"]),JSON_ARRAY);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\",0]",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b",0]),JSON_TRUE);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\",1]",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b",1]),JSON_STRING);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\",2]",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b",2]),JSON_NUMBER);
verify("Type of [1,\"c\"]",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"c"]),JSON_STRING);
verify("Type of [1,\"d\"]",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"d"]),JSON_FALSE);
verify("Type of [3] (invalid index at level 0)",llJsonValueType(json,[3]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of [-1] (invalid index at level 0)",llJsonValueType(json,[-1]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of [1,\"c\",3] (invalid index at level 1), MAINT-2670",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"c",3]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\",3] (invalid index at level 2)",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b",3]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\",2,0,1] (invalid index at level 3) MAINT-2670",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b",2, 0, 1]),JSON_INVALID);

// some invalid cases where keys are uncoded
json = "[[1,2,3],{a:3,b:[true,\"test\",6],c:\"true\",\"d\":false}]";
verify("Type of [1,\"a\"] where key is unquoted",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"a"]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of [1,\"b\"] where key is unquoted",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"b"]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("Type of [1,\"c\"] where key is unquoted",llJsonValueType(json,[1,"c"]),JSON_INVALID);
}

test_get_value()
{
string json = "[[1,2,3,4.0],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}]";
verify("llJsonGetValue [0]",llJsonGetValue(json,[0]),"[1,2,3,4.0]");
verify("llJsonGetValue [0,1]",llJsonGetValue(json,[0,1]),"2");
verify("llJsonGetValue [1]",llJsonGetValue(json,[1]),"{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}");
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"b\"]",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"b"]),"[true,\"test\",6]");
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"b\",0]",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"b",0]),JSON_TRUE);
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"b\",1]",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"b",1]),"test");
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"b\",2]",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"b",2]),"6");
verify("llJsonGetValue [0,3]",llJsonGetValue(json,[0,3]), "4.0");
verify("llJsonGetValue [2] (invalid index at level 0)",llJsonGetValue(json,[2]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue [-1] (invalid index at level 0)",llJsonGetValue(json,[-1]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue [0,4] (invalid index within array)",llJsonGetValue(json,[0,4]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue [\"f\"] (look for missing object within array, depth=0) MAINT-2671",llJsonGetValue(json,["f"]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue [0,\"f\"] (look for missing object within array, depth=1) MAINT-2671",llJsonGetValue(json,[0,"f"]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,2] (specify index within object - disallowed)",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,2]),JSON_INVALID);

// invalid input json - missing quotes around 'a' and 'test'
json = "[[1,2,3,4.0],{a:3,\"b\":[true,test,6]}]";
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"b\",1], unquoted/invalid string value",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"b",1]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"a\"], unquoted/invalid string for key",llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"a"]),JSON_INVALID);
}

test_set_value()
{
// Test building from scratch
string json;
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[0,0],(string)1);
verify("llJsonSetValue build json",json,"[[1]]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[0,1],(string)2);
verify("llJsonSetValue build json",json,"[[1,2]]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[0,2],(string)3);
verify("llJsonSetValue build json",json,"[[1,2,3]]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"a"],(string)3);
verify("llJsonSetValue build json",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b",0],JSON_TRUE);
verify("llJsonSetValue build json",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true]}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b",1],"test");
verify("llJsonSetValue build json",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\"]}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b",2],"6");
verify("llJsonSetValue completed json",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}]");

// Test replacing
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b",1],"foo");
verify("llJsonSetValue completed json",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"foo\",6]}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b"],JSON_TRUE);
verify("llJsonSetValue completed json, true",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":true}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b"],"true");
verify("llJsonSetValue completed json, alt true",json,"[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":true}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,0,0],JSON_FALSE);
verify("llJsonSetValue completed json",json,"[[1,2,3],[[false]]]");

// Test appending
json = llJsonSetValue("[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}]",[0,JSON_APPEND], "4.0");
verify("llJsonSetValue append to first array",json,"[[1,2,3,4.0],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[1,"b",JSON_APPEND], "5.0");
verify("llJsonSetValue append to array withhin object",json,"[[1,2,3,4.0],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6,5.0]}]");
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[JSON_APPEND], "6.0");
verify("llJsonSetValue append to outer array",json,"[[1,2,3,4.0],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6,5.0]},6.0]");
json = llJsonSetValue("[]",[JSON_APPEND], "\"alone\"");
verify("llJsonSetValue append to empty array (MAINT-2684)",json,"[\"alone\"]");
json = llJsonSetValue("[]",[1], "\"alone\"");
verify("llJsonSetValue append to empty array at invalid index (MAINT-2684)",json,JSON_INVALID);
json = llJsonSetValue("[]",[0], "\"alone\"");
verify("llJsonSetValue append to empty array at first index (MAINT-2684)",json,"[\"alone\"]");

// this is the only failure mode that should exist.
json = "[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"foo\",6]}]";
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[3],JSON_FALSE);
verify("llJsonSetValue fail to insert data into invalid array index (MAINT-2675)",json,JSON_INVALID);
}

test_json_to_list()
{
list l = llJson2List("[[1,2,3],{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}]");
verify_list("llJson2List first",l,["[1,2,3]","{\"a\":3,\"b\":[true,\"test\",6]}"]);
list n = llJson2List(llList2String(l,0));
verify_list("llJson2List l,0",n,[1,2,3]);
n = llJson2List(llList2String(l,1));
verify_list("llJson2List l,0",n,["a",3,"b","[true,\"test\",6]"]);
n = llJson2List(llList2String(n,3));
verify_list("llJson2List l,0",n,[JSON_TRUE, "test", 6]);
n = llJson2List(llList2String(n,1));
verify_list("llJson2List l,0",n,["test"]);
n = llJson2List("");
verify_list("Empty JSON string becomes empty list",n,[]);
n = llJson2List("[]");
verify_list("Empty JSON array becomes empty list (MAINT-2678)",n,[]);
n = llJson2List("{}");
verify_list("Empty JSON object becomes empty list (MAINT-2678)",n,[]);
n = llJson2List("Non-JSON string, with comma");
verify_list("llJson2List for non-JSON string is stored as a single object",n,["Non-JSON string, with comma"]);
n = llJson2List("[malformed}");
verify_list("llJson2List, malformed input",n,["[malformed}"]);
}

test_list_to_json()
{
// test objects
string json = llList2Json(JSON_OBJECT,["a",1,"b",2.5,"c","test","d","true","e","[1,2,3]"]);
verify("llList2Json, json object",json,"{\"a\":1,\"b\":2.500000,\"c\":\"test\",\"d\":true,\"e\":[1,2,3]}");

// test arrays
json = llList2Json(JSON_ARRAY,[1,2.5,"test","true","[1,2,3]"]);
verify("llList2Json, json array",json,"[1,2.500000,\"test\",true,[1,2,3]]");

// test arrays
json = llList2Json(JSON_ARRAY,[1,2.5,"test",JSON_TRUE,"[1,2,3]"]);
verify("llList2Json, json array, alternative true representation",json,"[1,2.500000,\"test\",true,[1,2,3]]");

// test objects, with empty input
json = llList2Json(JSON_OBJECT,[]);
verify("llList2Json, json object with empty input (MAINT-2681)",json,"{}");

// test arrays, with empty input
json = llList2Json(JSON_ARRAY,[]);
verify("llList2Json, json array with empty input (MAINT-2681)",json,"[]");

// test objects which are truncated
json = llList2Json(JSON_OBJECT,["a",1,"b",2.5,"c","test","d","true","e"]);
verify("llList2Json, json object, truncated",json,JSON_INVALID);

// test objects which has a non-string identifier somewhere
json = llList2Json(JSON_OBJECT,["a",1,TRUE,2.5,"c","test","d","true","e"]);
verify("llList2Json, json object, non-string in one of the first stride values",json,JSON_INVALID);

// test invalid type
json = llList2Json("foo",["a",1,"b",2.5,"c","test","d","true","e","[1,2,3]"]);
verify("llList2Json, json invalid type",json,JSON_INVALID);
}

test_strings_with_escaped_chars()
{
list escaped_pairs = [
"funky\"string", "funky\\\"string", "quote in middle",
"funkystr\"ing", "funkystr\\\"ing", "quote in middle, other position",
// note that we have to double-up backslashes to assign them to strings..
"funky\\string", "funky\\\\string", "backslashes in middle",
"\\funkystring", "\\\\funkystring", "backslashes at beginning",
"funky\nstring", "funky\\nstring", "newline in string",
"funky/string", "funky\\/string", "forward slash in string",
// TAB (\t) fails, because it seems that LSL automatically converts any tab into 4 consecutive spaces.
// * "funky\tstring", "funky\\tstring", "tab in string",
// these cases fail; it seems that LSL doesn't support these characters, and strips the '\'
// * "funky\bstring", "funky\\\bstring", "backspace in middle",
// * "funky\fstring", "funky\\\fstring", "form feed in middle",
// * "funky\rstring", "funky\\rstring", "carriage return in string",
// note that the following case can't be supported, since strings starting with \" can't be escaped
// * "\"funkystring", "\\\"funkystring", "quote in beginning",
"vanilla string", "vanilla string", "nothing that needs to be escaped.."
];
integer i;
for(i=0; i < llGetListLength(escaped_pairs); i+=3)
{
string funky_string = llList2String(escaped_pairs, i);
string funky_string_escaped = llList2String(escaped_pairs, i+1);
string escaped_desc = " '" + llList2String(escaped_pairs, i+2) + "'";

verify("Type of string with escaped char (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,llJsonValueType("\""+funky_string_escaped+"\"",[]),JSON_STRING);

string json = "[[1,2,3,4.0],{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":3,\"b\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value"+"\"}]";
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\""+funky_string_escaped+"\"] (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,
llJsonGetValue(json,[1,funky_string]),"3");
verify("llJsonGetValue [1,\"b\"] (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,llJsonGetValue(json,[1,"b"]),funky_string+"value");

//llSay(0, "DEBUG: '" + llEscapeURL(json) + "' is input for test " + escaped_desc);
json = llJsonSetValue(json,[0],funky_string);
verify("llJsonSetValue with escaped string as value (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,json,
"[\""+funky_string_escaped+"\",{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":3,\"b\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value"+"\"}]");

json = llJsonSetValue(json,[0],funky_string);
verify("llJsonSetValue with escaped string as value (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,json,
"[\""+funky_string_escaped+"\",{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":3,\"b\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value"+"\"}]");

json = llJsonSetValue(json,[0,funky_string], funky_string+"value");
verify("llJsonSetValue with escaped string as key's value (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,json,
"[{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value\"},{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":3,\"b\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value"+"\"}]");

list l = llJson2List(json);
verify_list("llJson2List extracting object containing escaped string (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc, l,
["{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value\"}","{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":3,\"b\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value"+"\"}"]);
list n = llJson2List(llList2String(l, 0));
verify_list("llJson2List extracting escaped strings (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc, n,
[funky_string,funky_string+"value"]);

json = llList2Json(JSON_ARRAY,n);
verify("llList2Json from escaped-containing string to array (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,json,
"[\""+funky_string_escaped+"\",\""+funky_string_escaped+"value\"]");

json = llList2Json(JSON_OBJECT,n);
verify("llList2Json from escaped-containing string to object (for MAINT-2698),"+escaped_desc,json,
"{\""+funky_string_escaped+"\":\""+funky_string_escaped+"value\"}");
}
}

maint3070()
{
verify("Set value 'messa[g]e'", llJsonSetValue("",["toast"],"messa[g]e"), "{\"toast\":\"messa[g]e\"}");
verify("Set value 'messag[e]'", llJsonSetValue("",["toast"],"messag[e]"), "{\"toast\":\"messag[e]\"}");
verify("Set value 'messag\[e\]'", llJsonSetValue("",["toast"],"messag\[e\]"), "{\"toast\":\"messag[e]\"}");
}

maint3053()
{
string jT1 = "[1, 2]"; // A JSON array
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT1,[2],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT1,[2],"t"),"[1,2,\"t\"]");
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT1,[3],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT1,[3],"t"),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 0],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 0],"t"),"[[\"t\"],2]");
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 0, 2, \"t\", 75],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 0, 2, "t", 75],"t"),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 1],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 1],"t"),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 1, 2, \"t\", 75],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT1,[0, 1, 2, "t", 75],"t"),JSON_INVALID);

string jT2 = "[ [\"A\", \"B\", \"C\"], 2]";
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 3],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 3],"t"),"[[\"A\",\"B\",\"C\",\"t\"],2]");
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 4],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 4],"t"),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 1, 0],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 1, 0],"t"),"[[\"A\",[\"t\"],\"C\"],2]");
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 1, 1],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT2,[0, 1, 1],"t"),JSON_INVALID);

string jT3 = "{\"1\":2}";
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT3,[\"1\"],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT3,["1"],"t"),"{\"1\":\"t\"}");
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT3,[\"1\",0],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT3,["1",0],"t"),"{\"1\":[\"t\"]}");
verify("llJsonSetValue(jT3,[\"1\",1],\"t\")",llJsonSetValue(jT3,["1",1],"t"),JSON_INVALID);

string jGood = "[null, 2]";
verify("llJsonValueType(jGood, [0])",llJsonValueType(jGood, [0]),JSON_NULL);
verify("llJsonValueType(jGood, [0, 0])",llJsonValueType(jGood, [0, 0]),JSON_INVALID);

string jBad = "[, 2]";
verify("llJsonValueType(jBad,[0])",llJsonValueType(jBad,[0]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonValueType(jBad,[0, 0, 2, \"t\", 75])",llJsonValueType(jBad,[0, 0, 2, "t", 75]),JSON_INVALID);
verify("llJsonGetValue(jBad,[1, 0, 2, \"t\", 75])",llJsonGetValue(jBad,[1, 0, 2, "t", 75]),JSON_INVALID);
}

maint3081()
{
verify("llJsonSetValue blank string",llJsonSetValue("",["test"],""),"{\"test\":\"\"}");
verify("llJsonSetValue JSON_NULL",llJsonSetValue("",["test"],JSON_NULL),"{\"test\":null}");
verify("llJsonGetValue blank string",llJsonGetValue("{\"test\":\"\"}",["test"]),"");
verify("llJsonGetValue JSON_NULL",llJsonGetValue("{\"test\":null}",["test"]),JSON_NULL);
verify("Identity (set->get) blank string",llJsonGetValue(llJsonSetValue("",["test"],""),["test"]),"");
verify("Identity (set->get) JSON_NULL",llJsonGetValue(llJsonSetValue("",["test"],JSON_NULL),["test"]),JSON_NULL);
}

test_jira_fixes()
{
maint3070();
maint3053();
maint3081();
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llOwnerSay("Starting tests.");
test_types();
test_get_value();
test_set_value();
test_json_to_list();
test_list_to_json();
test_strings_with_escaped_chars();
test_jira_fixes();
llOwnerSay("Tests complete. Ran " + (string)tests + " tests with " + (string)fails + " failures.");
}

touch_start(integer n)
{
llOwnerSay("Starting tests.");
tests = 0;
fails = 0;
test_types();
test_get_value();
test_set_value();
test_json_to_list();
test_list_to_json();
test_strings_with_escaped_chars();
test_jira_fixes();
llOwnerSay("Tests complete. Ran " + (string)tests + " tests with " + (string)fails + " failures.");
}
}
</lsl>

LlJsonValueType

2013-06-10T22:16:29Z

Kelly Linden:

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonValueType|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Returns the type constant for the value in [http://json.org json] string indicated by specifiers.
|return_text=The type of the json value in string specified by specifiers.
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants=*[[JSON_INVALID]]
* [[JSON_OBJECT]]
* [[JSON_ARRAY]]
* [[JSON_NUMBER]]
* [[JSON_STRING]]
* [[JSON_NULL]]
* [[JSON_TRUE]]
* [[JSON_FALSE]]
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonGetValue]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJsonValueType

2013-06-10T22:16:11Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "{{LSL Function |func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0 |func=llJsonValueType|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers |func_footnote |func…"

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonValueType|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Returns the type constant for the value in [http://json.org json] string indicated by specifiers.
|return_text=The type of the json value in string specified by specifiers.
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants=*[[JSON_INVALID]]
* [[JSON_OBJECT]]
* [[JSON_ARRAY]]
* [[JSON_NUMBER]]
* [[JSON_STRING]]
* [[JSON_NULL]]
* [[JSON_TRUE]]
* [[JSON_FALSE]]
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJsonSetValue

2013-06-10T22:13:45Z

Kelly Linden:

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonSetValue|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers|p3_type=string|p3_name=value
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Returns a new [http://json.org JSON] string which is ''string'' with the value indicated by specifiers set to ''value''.
|return_text=
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonGetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJsonSetValue

2013-06-10T22:13:02Z

Kelly Linden:

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonGetValue|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers|p3_type=string|p3_name=value
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Returns a new [http://json.org JSON] string which is ''string'' with the value indicated by specifiers set to ''value''.
|return_text=
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonGetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJsonSetValue

2013-06-10T22:12:48Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "{{LSL Function |func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0 |func=llJsonGetValue|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers|p3_type=string|p3_nam…"

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonGetValue|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers|p3_type=string|p3_name=value
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Returns a new [http://json.org JSON] string which is ''string'' with the value indicated by specifiers set to ''value''.
|return_text=
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJsonGetValue

2013-06-10T22:10:44Z

Kelly Linden:

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonGetValue|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Gets the value indicated by specifiers from the [http://json.org json] string.
|return_text=made by parsing '''json''', a string representing json and traversing as specified by specifiers.
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJsonGetValue

2013-06-10T22:10:20Z

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJsonGetValue|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=json|p2_type=list|p2_name=specifiers
|func_footnote
|func_desc=Gets the value indicated by specifiers from the [http://json.org json] string.
|return_text=made by parsing '''json''', a string representing json and traversing as specified by specifiers.
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
|constants
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonGetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlList2Json

2013-06-10T22:07:24Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "{{LSL Function |func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0 |func=llList2Json|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=type|p2_type=list|p2_name=values |func_footnote= To convert a…"

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llList2Json|return_type=string|p1_type=string|p1_name=type|p2_type=list|p2_name=values
|func_footnote=
To convert a json formatted string into a list use [[llJson2List]].
|func_desc=This function takes a list and returns a [http://json.org JSON] string of that list as either a json object or json array.
|return_text=made by parsing '''src''', a string representing json.
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
* If type is JSON_OBJECT the list must be a strided list of key, value pairs and a string representing a json object will be returned.
* If type is JSON_ARRAY then a string representing a json array will be returned.
* If type is any other string then JSON_INVALID will be returned.
|constants=*[[JSON_ARRAY]]
*[[JSON_OBJECT]]
*[[JSON_INVALID]]
|examples
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llJson2List]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonGetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlJson2List

2013-06-10T21:59:48Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "{{LSL Function |func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0 |func=llJson2List|return_type=list|p1_type=string|p1_name=src |func_footnote= To convert a list into a json formatted str…"

{{LSL Function
|func_id=|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=10.0
|func=llJson2List|return_type=list|p1_type=string|p1_name=src
|func_footnote=
To convert a list into a json formatted string use [[llList2Json]].
|func_desc=This function takes a string representing [http://json.org JSON], and returns a list of the top level.
|return_text=made by parsing '''src''', a string representing json.
|spec=See [[Json_usage_in_LSL]]
* If the json represents a single item (number, string, true, false or null) then a list with 1 item will be returned.
* If the json represents an object then a strided list of key, value pairs is returned. All values that are objects or arrays are returned as json strings.
* If the json represents an array then a list of all items is returned. All values that are objects or arrays are returned as json strings.
|constants
|examples=
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llList2Json]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonGetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonSetValue]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llJsonValueType]]|}}
|also_events
|also_tests
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Typecast]]|}}
|notes=
|permission
|negative_index
|sort=CSV2List
|cat1=List
|cat2=String
|cat3=Data Conversion
|cat4=Json
}}

LlSetAnimationOverride

2013-03-26T17:50:40Z

Kelly Linden:

{{LSL_Function
|inject-2=
{{LSL_Function/permission|PERMISSION_OVERRIDE_ANIMATIONS}}
{{LSL_Function/inventory|anim|uuid=false|type=animation}}
|func_id=?|func_sleep=0.0|func_energy=?
|func=llSetAnimationOverride|sort=SetAnimationOverride
|p1_type=string|p1_name=anim_state|p1_desc=animation state to be overriden
|p2_type=string|p2_name=anim|p2_desc= or the name of a [[Internal Animations|built-in animation]]|p2_hover= or the name of a built-in animation
|func_footnote=Note: Animation overrides survive script reset / removal but not relog.
|func_desc=Set the animation ({{LSLPT|anim}}) that will play for the given animation state ({{LSLPT|anim_state}}).
|spec
|caveats=* Animation overrides survive script reset / removal but not relog.
* State "Sit on Ground" will play the default animation in addition to any override set. This is required for correct viewer behavior.
* Some states are transitional and have undefined behavior if set to continuously looping animations. These states are "PreJumping", "Landing", "Soft Landing" and "Standing Up".
|constants={{LSL Animation States}}
|examples
|helpers
|also_functions={{LSL DefineRow||[[llGetAnimationOverride]]|}}
{{LSL DefineRow||[[llResetAnimationOverride]]|}}
|also_tests
|also_events
|also_articles={{LSL DefineRow||[[Internal_Animations]]|lists internal Animations always available}}
|notes
|cat1=Animation
|cat2=Animation/Override
|cat3
|cat4
}}

Simulator User Group

2012-07-30T16:49:03Z

Kelly Linden:

{{User Group Page
|purpose=
The Server User Group exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about server technology, annoying bugs, and feature ideas.
|date-time=
* Tuesdays 12:00-13:00 (general) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/220/41/33,
* Fridays 16:00-17:00 (general) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/220/41/33
Meetings are
|location= '''Denby/225/25/25'''
|agenda= LL developer news then open discussion.
* Resident Proposed Agenda Items
** {{JiraIssue|SVC-914|CHANGED_TEXTURE is not triggered when texture is changed via script}} Are those broken vendors still in use (that would break if we fixed the bug)? If not, can this be fixed yet? ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** Physical Memory leak {{JiraIssue|SVC-7749|Rez of vehicle gets message "Unable to create item '<object name>' that has caused problems on this region. Other vehicles are forced non-phys on enter.}} Is this a HAVOK bug? What are the plans for dealing with it?
** Regression tester is regression-y! {{JiraIssue|SVC-7357|Terrain RAW file round-trip inversion error}}
** Can we get LL to look at {{JiraIssue|SVC-4933|Ability to Allow / Disallow Changes to Public Access Across Entire Estate}}
** Does the [[RevokePermissions]] message still work? It doesn't seem to now.
** What is the status of {{JiraIssue|SVC-472|Region Crossings Fail}}?
** Could people volunteer to post the transcripts more regularly? There are 3 weeks full of missing logs now and it hits hard, since it affects the ability to make references to factual answers by lindens, visiting transcripts of topics you couldn't attend, etc.
** In the modernisation of SL, why has all effeort for new features seemed to be targeted at Mesh? I feel that the biggest immersion killer, and the area where SL is lagging behind other MMOs the most, right now is not having seamless sim crossings, and not being able to traverse the seas. [Davido Chrome]
** Lets get some action on {{JiraIssue|SCR-37|llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler.}}
** {{JiraIssue|VWR-28609|Please add PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC to keywords.ini}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** {{JiraIssue|SVC-7779|changed() reports CHANGE_LOCOMOTION_STATE}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** {{JiraIssue|VWR-28634|The build-(tools-)window pops open if the dragged object under your mouse dies or gets deleted.}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** Place four 1x1x1m sized default prims on top of each other and make them physical. Give them a slight kick. They will keep wobbling/swinging back and forth forever! ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** How does the simulator handle avatar animations? I assume whether the viewer uses a HUD or built-in AO the walk script one is using must be conveyed to others so they can see it. Does the region's server remember that, cache the animation or send others to the asset server to get it... how does it work on the server side? [[User:Nalates Urriah|Nalates Urriah]] 10:15, 13 April 2012 (PDT)
*** Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the simulator attaches each new animation triggered to the agent's stack of active animations and triggers an update to viewers, each viewer then checks for this animation in their cache and either plays it, or sends a request to download (then plays it once it's ready). ([[User:Haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])
** What happened to {{JiraIssue|VWR-14674}}? ([[User:Motor Loon|Motor Loon]])
** {{jiraIssue|SVC-8031|stipend tax is flat, not progressive}} (originally: "Why is no region named [http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/130485/claim-krugman-is-top-prognosticator-cal-thomas-is-the-worst/ Krugman]?) Fund the stipend with a two-bracket progressive income tax, where anyone making x% above median income pays y% on the excess, which is distributed in equal proportion to those eligible for the stipend with less than L$z who has logged in over the past w days, where (x, y, z, w) are optimized for [http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts-testing/ economic growth], instead of the flat L$ purchase transaction tax, which is regressive.
*** Improperly closed, reopened, improperly archived, escalated, Twitter campaign to @rodvik and @mkapor pending Linden resolution. I continue to propose that the effect on user retention and spending of lessening the transaction fee on low income earners and raising it on high income earners should be measured. Concurrency and cashflow are decoupled from [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/EMRATIO the world economy], so action is needed to stimulate growth. All of the existing L$ taxes (transaction, VAT) are flat, and therefore regressive. [http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GFRN10:IND Bond rates in France are down 0.2% since Sarcozy lost to a constitution-amending Socialist supermajority.]
*** There is some question as to whether this is seen as a new tax, or a correction of the existing flat transaction fee tax.
**{{JiraIssue|SVC-6189|Have crouching affect avatar's collision box.}} ([[User:Haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])
**Can someone (anyone with perms) please mark {{JiraIssue|SCR-345|llSetKeyframedMotion() does not support inter-region motion}} as "Fixed". Currently marked as Cannot Reproduce as that's the closest regular users can get on SCR issue =( ([[User:Haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])
**{{JiraIssue|SCR-11|string llGetInventoryDesc(string name)}} ([[User:haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])

== News ==
|team=
* [[User:Andrew Linden|Andrew Linden]]
* [[User:Simon Linden|Simon Linden]]
* [[User:Kelly Linden|Kelly Linden]]
}}

2012.07 '''July'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.03|03]]
| 04
| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.06|06]]
| 07
|-
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.10|10]]
| 11
| 12
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.13|13]]
| 14
|-
| 15
| 16
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.17|17]]
| 18
| 19
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.20|20]]
| 21
|-
| 22
| 23
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.24|24]]
| 25
| 26
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.27|27]]
| 28
|-
| 29
| 30
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.31|31]]
|
|
|
|
|}

2012.06 '''June'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| <del>04</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.08|08]]
| 09
|-
| 10
| 11
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.12|12]]
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.15|15]]
| 16
|-
| 17
| 18
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.19|19]]
| 20
| 21
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.22|22]]
| 23
|-
| 24
| 25
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.26|26]]
| 27
| 28
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.29|29]]
| 30
|}

2012.05 '''May'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.18|18]]
| 19
|-
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2012.04 '''April'''
{|
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2012.03 '''March'''
{|
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| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.03.02|02]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.03.30|30]]
| 31
|}

2012.02 '''February'''
{|
| Sun
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|
|
| 01
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.03|03]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.07|07]]
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|}

2012.01 '''January'''
{|
| Sun
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|-
| 01
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.03|03]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.06|06]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.10|10]]
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|}

2011.12 '''December'''
{|
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|
|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.02|02]]
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| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.06|06]]
| 07
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.09|09]]
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|}

2011.11 '''November'''
{|
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.04|04]]
| 05
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| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.08|08]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.11|11]]
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2011.10 '''October'''
{|
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| 01
|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.04|04]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.11|11]]
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2011.09 '''September'''
{|
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| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.02|02]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.06|06]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.30|30]]
|
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|}

2011.08 '''August'''
{|
| Sun
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| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.02|02]]
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2011.07 '''July'''
{|
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|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| <del>04</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.08|08]]
| 09
|-
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2011.06 '''June'''
{|
| Sun
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| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.03|03]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.07|07]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.28|28]]
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2011.05 '''May'''
{|
| Sun
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| 01
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.03|03]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.06|06]]
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.10|10]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.31|31]]
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|}

2011.04 '''April'''
{|
| Sun
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|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.04|04]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.05|05]]
| 06
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.08|08]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.12|12]]
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| 30
|}

2011.03 '''March'''
{|
| Sun
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.04|04]]
| 05
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| 06
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-07|07]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.11|11]]
| 12
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.15|15]]
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| 30
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|}

2011.02 '''February'''
{|
| Sun
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|-
|
|
| 01
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| [[User:Kelly_Linden/Office Hours/2011-02-07|07]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-02-14|14]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.18|18]]
| 19
|-
| 20
| <del>21</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.22|22]]
| 23
| 24
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| 26
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| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-02-28|28]]
|
|
|
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|}

Simulator User Group

2012-07-30T16:48:38Z

Kelly Linden:

{{User Group Page
|purpose=
The Server User Group exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about server technology, annoying bugs, and feature ideas.
|date-time=
* Tuesdays 12:00-13:00 (general) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/220/41/33,
* Fridays 16:00-17:00 (general) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/220/41/33
Mon. scripting meetings are at '''Ambleside/160/66/33''' while the Tues. and Fri. general meetings are
|location= '''Denby/225/25/25'''
|agenda= LL developer news then open discussion.
* Resident Proposed Agenda Items
** {{JiraIssue|SVC-914|CHANGED_TEXTURE is not triggered when texture is changed via script}} Are those broken vendors still in use (that would break if we fixed the bug)? If not, can this be fixed yet? ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** Physical Memory leak {{JiraIssue|SVC-7749|Rez of vehicle gets message "Unable to create item '<object name>' that has caused problems on this region. Other vehicles are forced non-phys on enter.}} Is this a HAVOK bug? What are the plans for dealing with it?
** Regression tester is regression-y! {{JiraIssue|SVC-7357|Terrain RAW file round-trip inversion error}}
** Can we get LL to look at {{JiraIssue|SVC-4933|Ability to Allow / Disallow Changes to Public Access Across Entire Estate}}
** Does the [[RevokePermissions]] message still work? It doesn't seem to now.
** What is the status of {{JiraIssue|SVC-472|Region Crossings Fail}}?
** Could people volunteer to post the transcripts more regularly? There are 3 weeks full of missing logs now and it hits hard, since it affects the ability to make references to factual answers by lindens, visiting transcripts of topics you couldn't attend, etc.
** In the modernisation of SL, why has all effeort for new features seemed to be targeted at Mesh? I feel that the biggest immersion killer, and the area where SL is lagging behind other MMOs the most, right now is not having seamless sim crossings, and not being able to traverse the seas. [Davido Chrome]
** Lets get some action on {{JiraIssue|SCR-37|llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler.}}
** {{JiraIssue|VWR-28609|Please add PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC to keywords.ini}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** {{JiraIssue|SVC-7779|changed() reports CHANGE_LOCOMOTION_STATE}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** {{JiraIssue|VWR-28634|The build-(tools-)window pops open if the dragged object under your mouse dies or gets deleted.}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** Place four 1x1x1m sized default prims on top of each other and make them physical. Give them a slight kick. They will keep wobbling/swinging back and forth forever! ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** How does the simulator handle avatar animations? I assume whether the viewer uses a HUD or built-in AO the walk script one is using must be conveyed to others so they can see it. Does the region's server remember that, cache the animation or send others to the asset server to get it... how does it work on the server side? [[User:Nalates Urriah|Nalates Urriah]] 10:15, 13 April 2012 (PDT)
*** Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the simulator attaches each new animation triggered to the agent's stack of active animations and triggers an update to viewers, each viewer then checks for this animation in their cache and either plays it, or sends a request to download (then plays it once it's ready). ([[User:Haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])
** What happened to {{JiraIssue|VWR-14674}}? ([[User:Motor Loon|Motor Loon]])
** {{jiraIssue|SVC-8031|stipend tax is flat, not progressive}} (originally: "Why is no region named [http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/130485/claim-krugman-is-top-prognosticator-cal-thomas-is-the-worst/ Krugman]?) Fund the stipend with a two-bracket progressive income tax, where anyone making x% above median income pays y% on the excess, which is distributed in equal proportion to those eligible for the stipend with less than L$z who has logged in over the past w days, where (x, y, z, w) are optimized for [http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts-testing/ economic growth], instead of the flat L$ purchase transaction tax, which is regressive.
*** Improperly closed, reopened, improperly archived, escalated, Twitter campaign to @rodvik and @mkapor pending Linden resolution. I continue to propose that the effect on user retention and spending of lessening the transaction fee on low income earners and raising it on high income earners should be measured. Concurrency and cashflow are decoupled from [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/EMRATIO the world economy], so action is needed to stimulate growth. All of the existing L$ taxes (transaction, VAT) are flat, and therefore regressive. [http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GFRN10:IND Bond rates in France are down 0.2% since Sarcozy lost to a constitution-amending Socialist supermajority.]
*** There is some question as to whether this is seen as a new tax, or a correction of the existing flat transaction fee tax.
**{{JiraIssue|SVC-6189|Have crouching affect avatar's collision box.}} ([[User:Haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])
**Can someone (anyone with perms) please mark {{JiraIssue|SCR-345|llSetKeyframedMotion() does not support inter-region motion}} as "Fixed". Currently marked as Cannot Reproduce as that's the closest regular users can get on SCR issue =( ([[User:Haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])
**{{JiraIssue|SCR-11|string llGetInventoryDesc(string name)}} ([[User:haravikk Mistral|Haravikk Mistral]])

== News ==
|team=
* [[User:Andrew Linden|Andrew Linden]]
* [[User:Simon Linden|Simon Linden]]
* [[User:Kelly Linden|Kelly Linden]]
}}

2012.07 '''July'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.03|03]]
| 04
| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.06|06]]
| 07
|-
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.10|10]]
| 11
| 12
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.13|13]]
| 14
|-
| 15
| 16
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.17|17]]
| 18
| 19
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.20|20]]
| 21
|-
| 22
| 23
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.24|24]]
| 25
| 26
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.27|27]]
| 28
|-
| 29
| 30
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.31|31]]
|
|
|
|
|}

2012.06 '''June'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| <del>04</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.08|08]]
| 09
|-
| 10
| 11
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.12|12]]
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.15|15]]
| 16
|-
| 17
| 18
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.19|19]]
| 20
| 21
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.22|22]]
| 23
|-
| 24
| 25
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.26|26]]
| 27
| 28
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.29|29]]
| 30
|}

2012.05 '''May'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.11|11]]
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|}

2012.04 '''April'''
{|
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2012.03 '''March'''
{|
| Sun
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|
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|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.03.02|02]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.03.06|06]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.03.30|30]]
| 31
|}

2012.02 '''February'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
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| Sat
|-
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|
|
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.03|03]]
| 04
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.07|07]]
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.10|10]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.14|14]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.28|28]]
| 29
|
|
|
|}

2012.01 '''January'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
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| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.03|03]]
| 04
| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.06|06]]
| 07
|-
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.10|10]]
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| 28
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| 29
| 30
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.31|31]]
|
|
|
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|}

2011.12 '''December'''
{|
| Sun
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|-
|
|
|
|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.02|02]]
| 03
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| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.06|06]]
| 07
| 08
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.09|09]]
| 10
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.13|13]]
| 14
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.16|16]]
| 17
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.20|20]]
| 21
| 22
| 23
| 24
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| 25
| 26
| 27
| 28
| 29
| 30
|
|}

2011.11 '''November'''
{|
| Sun
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| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.18|18]]
| 19
|-
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| 21
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.22|22]]
| 23
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| 25
| 26
|-
| 27
| 28
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.29|29]]
| 30
|
|
|
|}

2011.10 '''October'''
{|
| Sun
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| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 01
|-
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.04|04]]
| 05
| 06
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.07|07]]
| 08
|-
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.11|11]]
| 12
| 13
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.14|14]]
| 15
|-
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.18|18]]
| 19
| 20
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.21|21]]
| 22
|-
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| 24
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.25|25]]
| 26
| 27
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.10.28|28]]
| 29
|-
| 30
| 31
|
|
|
|
|
|}

2011.09 '''September'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.02|02]]
| 03
|-
| 04
| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.06|06]]
| 07
| 08
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.09|09]]
| 10
|-
| 11
| 12
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.13|13]]
| 14
| 15
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.16|16]]
| 17
|-
| 18
| 19
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.20|20]]
| 21
| 22
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.23|23]]
| 24
|-
| 25
| 26
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.27|27]]
| 28
| 29
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.30|30]]
|
|
|}

2011.08 '''August'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.02|02]]
| 03
| 04
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.05|05]]
| 06
|-
| 07
| 06
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.09|09]]
| 10
| 11
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.12|12]]
| 13
|-
| 14
| 15
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.16|16]]
| 17
| 18
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.19|19]]
| 20
|-
| 21
| 22
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.23|23]]
| 24
| 25
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.26|26]]
| 27
|-
| 28
| 29
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.30|30]]
| 31
|
|
|
|}

2011.07 '''July'''
{|
| Sun
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| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| <del>04</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.08|08]]
| 09
|-
| 10
| 11
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.12|12]]
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.15|15]]
| 16
|-
| 17
| 18
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.19|19]]
| 20
| 21
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| 23
|-
| 24
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.26|26]]
| 27
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.29|29]]
| 30
|-
| 31
|
|
|
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|}

2011.06 '''June'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.03|03]]
| 04
|-
| 05
| 06
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.07|07]]
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.10|10]]
| 11
|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.14|14]]
| 15
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| 18
|-
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| 20
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.21|21]]
| 22
| 23
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.24|24]]
| 25
|-
| 26
| 27
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.28|28]]
| 29
| 30
|
|
|}

2011.05 '''May'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.03|03]]
| 04
| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.06|06]]
| 07
|-
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.10|10]]
| 11
| 12
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.13|13]]
| 14
|-
| 15
| 16
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.17|17]]
| 18
| 19
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.20|20]]
| 21
|-
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| 23
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.24|24]]
| 25
| 26
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.27|27]]
| 28
|-
| 29
| 30
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.31|31]]
|
|
|
|
|}

2011.04 '''April'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.04|04]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.08|08]]
| 09
|-
| 10
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.11|11]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.12|12]]
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.15|15]]
| 16
|-
| 17
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.18|18]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.19|19]]
| 20
| 21
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.22|22]]
| 23
|-
| 24
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.25|25]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.26|26]]
| 27
| 28
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.29|29]]
| 30
|}

2011.03 '''March'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-07|07]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-14|14]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.18|18]]
| 19
|-
| 20
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-21|21]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.22|22]]
| 23
| 24
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.25|25]]
| 26
|-
| 27
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-28|28]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.29|29]]
| 30
|
|
|
|}

2011.02 '''February'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| 01
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| [[User:Kelly_Linden/Office Hours/2011-02-07|07]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-02-14|14]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.18|18]]
| 19
|-
| 20
| <del>21</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.22|22]]
| 23
| 24
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.25|25]]
| 26
|-
| 27
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-02-28|28]]
|
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|}

Linden Lab Official:User Groups

2012-07-30T16:41:19Z

Kelly Linden: /* Public User Group Meetings */

{{Current Events Nav}}
== About Second Life User Groups ==

User groups are product or community focused and each one is led by the product manager or community manager. Our goals are to make it easier for you to find the user group, or groups, that you want to participate in and for us to listen more closely to your needs and ideas. The user group program is about opening up more lines of communication. Most user groups are public and include inworld meetings, JIRA sections, and sometimes a Twitter feed, an SL Forum, or an SL email list. It's up to the user group lead and the core Resident team how they want to communicate with one another. The discussions will be open, direct, and focus more on your needs, new features, and be more forward-looking.

All Residents who join user groups must comply with the new [[Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Participation_Guidelines| Community Participation Guidelines]], in addition to our [http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php Terms of Service]. These guidelines ensure that all conversations are constructive, courteous, respectful, and in the spirit of collaboration.

{{KBnote|User groups ''aren't'' for support help. Instead, use the [http://secondlife.com/support Support Portal].}}

== Public User Group Meetings ==

For information on dates and times of user group meetings, see the user groups meeting schedule. And, each User Group has an individual page where agendas and archives reside. The program is still getting up to speed, so give each User Group leader time to fill in their content. Check back often!

All times listed are [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=224 Pacific Time].

NOTE: By default, the table below is sorted chronologically by day of the week. To sort alphabetically on any other column, click the icon in the column heading.

{| class="lltable sortable" border=1
!width=120|User Group
!width=200|Description
!width=120|User Group Leader
!Frequency
!width=120|Days of Week
!width=100|Time (PT)
!Location (SLurl)

|-
| {{User Group|Adult Content}}
| Issues concerning adult content and other adult-related issues.
| Viale Linden
| Monthly - 3rd week of the month
| Monday
| 10:00-11:00
| [http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Bronlen/113/224/36 SLurl]

|-
| {{User Group|Content Creation/Mesh Import}}
| Discussion on content creation, currently focused on mesh import.
| Nyx Linden 
| Weekly
| Monday
| 12:00-1:00
| [http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Borrowdale/79/225/32 SLurl]

|-
| {{User Group|Server/Sim/Scripting}}
| Simulator issues and technology.
| Andrew Linden
| Weekly
| Tuesday
| 12:00-13:00
| [http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Denby/225/25/25 SLurl]

|-
| {{User Group|Open Development}}
| Open source policies, resources for contributors, and progressing contributions through the Snowstorm process; for open source contributors.
| Oz Linden
| Twice Weekly
| Monday Thursday
| 07:00-08:00 13:00-14:00
| {{SLurl|region=Hippotropolis|x=209|y=90|z=24|title=Oz's Raft}}

|-
| [[Pathfinding in Second Life|Pathfinding]]
| Pathfinding project
| Lorca Linden
| Weekly
| Thursday
| 4:00-5:00pm
| '''On Aditi:''' [http://slurl.com/secondlife/PathTest1/128/128/23/?&title=PathTest1 PathTest1]

|-
| {{User Group|Server Beta}}
| Anything pertaining to server changes and public beta testing.
| Oskar Linden
| Weekly
| Thursday
| 15:00-16:00
| '''On Aditi''': [http://slurl.com/secondlife/Morris/210/250/35/?&title=Morris SLurl]

|-
| {{User Group|Server/Sim/Scripting}}
| Simulator issues and technology.
| Andrew Linden
| Weekly
| Friday
| 16:00-17:00
| [http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Denby/225/25/25 SLurl]

|}

{{KBnote|Community suggestion or idea, please email the community team [mailto:community@lindenlab.com email the Community team].}}

[[Category:User Groups]]

[[Category:User Groups]]

Simulator User Group

2012-07-16T16:20:41Z

Kelly Linden:

{{User Group Page
|purpose=
The Server User Group exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about server technology, annoying bugs, and feature ideas.
|date-time=
* Mondays 09:00-10:00 (scripting) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/160/66/37,
* Tuesdays 12:00-13:00 (general) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/220/41/33,
* Fridays 16:00-17:00 (general) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/220/41/33
Mon. scripting meetings are at '''Ambleside/160/66/33''' while the Tues. and Fri. general meetings are
|location= '''Denby/225/25/25'''
|agenda= LL developer news then open discussion.
* Resident Proposed Agenda Items
** {{JiraIssue|SVC-914|CHANGED_TEXTURE is not triggered when texture is changed via script}} Are those broken vendors still in use (that would break if we fixed the bug)? If not, can this be fixed yet? ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** Physical Memory leak https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7749 Is this a HAVOK bug? What are the plans for dealing with it?
** Regression tester is regression-y! https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7357
** Can we get LL to look at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4933
** Does the [[RevokePermissions]] message still work? It doesn't seem to now.
** What is the status of SVC 472?
** Could people volunteer to post the transcripts more regularly? There are 3 weeks full of missing logs now and it hits hard, since it affects the ability to make references to factual answers by lindens, visiting transcripts of topics you couldn't attend, etc.
** In the modernisation of SL, why has all effeort for new features seemed to be targeted at Mesh? I feel that the biggest immersion killer, and the area where SL is lagging behind other MMOs the most, right now is not having seamless sim crossings, and not being able to traverse the seas. [Davido Chrome]
** Lets get some action on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-37
** {{JiraIssue|VWR-28609|Please add PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC to keywords.ini}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** {{JiraIssue|SVC-7779|changed() reports CHANGE_LOCOMOTION_STATE}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** {{JiraIssue|VWR-28634|The build-(tools-)window pops open if the dragged object under your mouse dies or gets deleted.}} ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** Place four 1x1x1m sized default prims on top of each other and make them physical. Give them a slight kick. They will keep wobbling/swinging back and forth forever! ([[User:MartinRJ Fayray|MartinRJ]])
** How does the simulator handle avatar animations? I assume whether the viewer uses a HUD or built-in AO the walk script one is using must be conveyed to others so they can see it. Does the region's server remember that, cache the animation or send others to the asset server to get it... how does it work on the server side? [[User:Nalates Urriah|Nalates Urriah]] 10:15, 13 April 2012 (PDT)
** What happened to VWR-14674 ? ([[User:Motor Loon|Motor Loon]])
** {{jiraIssue|SVC-8031|stipend tax is flat, not progressive}} (originally: "Why is no region named [http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/130485/claim-krugman-is-top-prognosticator-cal-thomas-is-the-worst/ Krugman]?) Fund the stipend with a two-bracket progressive income tax, where anyone making x% above median income pays y% on the excess, which is distributed in equal proportion to those eligible for the stipend with less than L$z who has logged in over the past w days, where (x, y, z, w) are optimized for [http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts-testing/ economic growth], instead of the flat L$ purchase transaction tax, which is regressive.
*** Improperly closed, reopened, improperly archived, escalated, Twitter campaign to @rodvik and @mkapor pending Linden resolution. I continue to propose that the effect on user retention and spending of lessening the transaction fee on low income earners and raising it on high income earners should be measured. Concurrency and cashflow are decoupled from [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/EMRATIO the world economy], so action is needed to stimulate growth. All of the existing L$ taxes (transaction, VAT) are flat, and therefore regressive. [http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GFRN10:IND Bond rates in France are down 0.2% since Sarcozy lost to a constitution-amending Socialist supermajority.]
*** There is some question as to whether this is seen as a new tax, or a correction of the existing flat transaction fee tax.

== News ==
|team=
* [[User:Andrew Linden|Andrew Linden]]
* [[User:Simon Linden|Simon Linden]]
* [[User:Kelly Linden|Kelly Linden]]
}}

2012.07 '''July'''
{|
| Sun
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.07.03|03]]
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2012.06 '''June'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.06.01|01]]
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| <del>04</del>
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2012.05 '''May'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.05.01|01]]
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2012.04 '''April'''
{|
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2012.03 '''March'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.03.02|02]]
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|}

2012.02 '''February'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.03|03]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.02.07|07]]
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2012.01 '''January'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.03|03]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.06|06]]
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2011.12 '''December'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.02|02]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.12.06|06]]
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2011.11 '''November'''
{|
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.01|01]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.04|04]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.11.08|08]]
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2011.10 '''October'''
{|
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|-
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|-
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2011.09 '''September'''
{|
| Sun
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|-
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|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.02|02]]
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.06|06]]
| 07
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.27|27]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.09.30|30]]
|
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|}

2011.08 '''August'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
| 01
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.02|02]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.05|05]]
| 06
|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.08.09|09]]
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2011.07 '''July'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
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| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
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|
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| <del>04</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.08|08]]
| 09
|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.12|12]]
| 13
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.15|15]]
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.07.19|19]]
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|-
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|}

2011.06 '''June'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
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|
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.03|03]]
| 04
|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.07|07]]
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.10|10]]
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.21|21]]
| 22
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.24|24]]
| 25
|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.06.28|28]]
| 29
| 30
|
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|}

2011.05 '''May'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
| 01
| 02
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.03|03]]
| 04
| 05
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.06|06]]
| 07
|-
| 08
| 09
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.10|10]]
| 11
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.13|13]]
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.17|17]]
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| 19
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.20|20]]
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|-
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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.24|24]]
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| 28
|-
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| 30
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.05.31|31]]
|
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|}

2011.04 '''April'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
|
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.01|01]]
| 02
|-
| 03
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.04|04]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.05|05]]
| 06
| 07
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.08|08]]
| 09
|-
| 10
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.11|11]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.12|12]]
| 13
| 14
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.15|15]]
| 16
|-
| 17
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.18|18]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.19|19]]
| 20
| 21
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.22|22]]
| 23
|-
| 24
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011.04.25|25]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.26|26]]
| 27
| 28
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.04.29|29]]
| 30
|}

2011.03 '''March'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.01|01]]
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-07|07]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-14|14]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.18|18]]
| 19
|-
| 20
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-21|21]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.22|22]]
| 23
| 24
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.25|25]]
| 26
|-
| 27
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-03-28|28]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.03.29|29]]
| 30
|
|
|
|}

2011.02 '''February'''
{|
| Sun
| Mon
| Tue
| Wed
| Thu
| Fri
| Sat
|-
|
|
| 01
| 02
| 03
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.04|04]]
| 05
|-
| 06
| [[User:Kelly_Linden/Office Hours/2011-02-07|07]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.08|08]]
| 09
| 10
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.11|11]]
| 12
|-
| 13
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-02-14|14]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.15|15]]
| 16
| 17
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.18|18]]
| 19
|-
| 20
| <del>21</del>
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.22|22]]
| 23
| 24
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2011.02.25|25]]
| 26
|-
| 27
| [[Scripting_User_group/Transcripts/2011-02-28|28]]
|
|
|
|
|
|}

Content Creation/Scripting User Group

2012-07-16T16:20:21Z

Kelly Linden: Redirected page to Simulator User Group

#REDIRECT [[Simulator_User_Group]]

Talk:Content Creation/Scripting User Group

2012-07-16T16:19:00Z

Kelly Linden: Blanked the page

Radar HUD Demo

2012-06-25T16:21:03Z

Kelly Linden:

[[File:Radar hud.png|200px|thumb|top|screenshots]]

What:
* Single prim, single script HUD that shows dots for nearby avatars on a map image.
* Less useful than the mini map.
* Uses LSL's HTTP-In, html 5 canvas and ajax.
* Currently under 16k memory as mono.
To use:
* Create a box, attach it to a HUD point, scale and position as you like.
* Drop this script in it.
* Requires media on a prim be enabled.
Bugs:
* Sometimes it just sits there blank. Not sure how/why. Requires a script restart usually to fix.
TODO:
* Add hover text for people (names)
* Add click action for people (profiles?)
* Rotate the map
* Zoom the map
* Options: scan different things, use different colors.
* Make the dots look better
* Add direction indicator to 'me' dot.
<lsl>
// License:
// This script itself is free to share, modify and use without restriction.
// Any linked or referenced files are not included in this license and are licensed by their respective owners under their own respective copyright and other licenses.
// Created by Kelly Linden, 2011.

integer display_face = 4;

string index_html;

build_index(string url)
{
vector rc = llGetRegionCorner();
string bg_url = "http://map.secondlife.com/map-1-" + (string)((integer)(rc.x / 256)) + "-" + (string)((integer)(rc.y / 256)) + "-objects.jpg";

// Build the index page.
index_html =
"<html><head>
<script src='http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.6.4/jquery.min.js' />
<script type='text/javascript' language='javascript'>
var me;var req_me = false;
var people;var req_people = false;

function plot(ctx, points, color, border, size) {
if (points != undefined) {
ctx.fillStyle=color;
for ( p in points ) {
ctx.fillStyle=border;
ctx.fillRect(points[p][0] - 2,points[p][1] - 2,size,size);
ctx.fillStyle=color;
ctx.fillRect(points[p][0] - 1,points[p][1] - 1,size - 2,size -2);
}
}
}

function updateMap() {
canvas = document.getElementById( 'myCanvas' );
ctx = canvas.getContext( '2d' );
img = new Image();
img.src = '" + bg_url + "';

if (!req_me) {
req_me = true;
$.getJSON('mypos',function(data){me = data;req_me=false;});
}

if (!req_people) {
req_people = true;
$.getJSON('avatars',function(data){people = data;req_people=false;});
}

ctx.save();
if (img.complete) {
ctx.drawImage( img, 0, 0, canvas.getAttribute('width'), canvas.getAttribute('height') );
}

plot(ctx,people,'#FF0000','#FFFFFF',5);
plot(ctx,me,'#FFFFFF','#000000',7);
ctx.restore();
setTimeout( updateMap, 500 );
}
</script><base href='" + url + "/' /></head>
<body style='background: #FFFFFF; width: 100%; height: 100%; margin: 0px;' onLoad='updateMap();'>
<canvas id='myCanvas' width='256' height='256' style='position:fixed; top:0px; left:0px;'>
Canvas unsupported.
</canvas></body></html>";
}

set_url(string url)
{
build_index(url);

llSetLinkMedia(LINK_THIS, display_face, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,url, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,url, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,256, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,256, // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL, PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE]);

llOwnerSay("Mem: " + (string)llGetUsedMemory());
}

default
{
state_entry() { llRequestURL(); }
on_rez(integer i) { llResetScript(); }
changed(integer c)
{
if (c & (CHANGED_REGION | CHANGED_TELEPORT | CHANGED_OWNER))
{ llResetScript(); }
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
set_url(body);
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Failed to get url: " + body);
}

if (method == "GET")
{
list path = llParseString2List(llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info"),["/"],[]);

if (llGetListLength(path) == 0)
{
llSetContentType(id,CONTENT_TYPE_HTML);

llHTTPResponse(id,200,index_html);
}
else if (llList2String(path,0) == "mypos")
{
vector my_pos = llGetPos();
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"[[" + (string)((integer)my_pos.x) + "," + (string)(256 - (integer)my_pos.y) + "]]");
}
else if (llList2String(path,0) == "avatars")
{
list avatars = llGetAgentList(AGENT_LIST_REGION,[]);

string body = "[";
integer i;
integer n = llGetListLength(avatars);
for(i=0;i<n;++i)
{
if (i != 0) body += ",";
vector pos = llList2Vector(llGetObjectDetails(llList2Key(avatars,i),[OBJECT_POS]),0);
body += "[" + (string)((integer)pos.x) + "," + (string)(256 - (integer)pos.y) + "]";
}
body += " ]";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,body);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

Radar HUD Demo

2012-06-25T16:20:44Z

Kelly Linden:

[[File:Radar hud.png|200px|thumb|top|screenshots]]

What:
* Single prim, single script HUD that shows dots for nearby avatars on a map image.
* Less useful than the mini map.
* Uses LSL's HTTP-In, html 5 canvas and ajax.
* Currently under 16k memory as mono.
To use:
* Create a box, attach it to a HUD point, scale and position as you like.
* Drop this script in it.
* Requires media on a prim be enabled.
Bugs:
* Sometimes it just sits there blank. Not sure how/why. Requires a script restart usually to fix.
TODO:
* Add hover text for people (names)
* Add click action for people (profiles?)
* Rotate the map
* Zoom the map
* Better scans (>16 people)
* Options: scan different things, use different colors.
* Make the dots look better
* Add direction indicator to 'me' dot.
<lsl>
// License:
// This script itself is free to share, modify and use without restriction.
// Any linked or referenced files are not included in this license and are licensed by their respective owners under their own respective copyright and other licenses.
// Created by Kelly Linden, 2011.

integer display_face = 4;

string index_html;

build_index(string url)
{
vector rc = llGetRegionCorner();
string bg_url = "http://map.secondlife.com/map-1-" + (string)((integer)(rc.x / 256)) + "-" + (string)((integer)(rc.y / 256)) + "-objects.jpg";

// Build the index page.
index_html =
"<html><head>
<script src='http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.6.4/jquery.min.js' />
<script type='text/javascript' language='javascript'>
var me;var req_me = false;
var people;var req_people = false;

function plot(ctx, points, color, border, size) {
if (points != undefined) {
ctx.fillStyle=color;
for ( p in points ) {
ctx.fillStyle=border;
ctx.fillRect(points[p][0] - 2,points[p][1] - 2,size,size);
ctx.fillStyle=color;
ctx.fillRect(points[p][0] - 1,points[p][1] - 1,size - 2,size -2);
}
}
}

function updateMap() {
canvas = document.getElementById( 'myCanvas' );
ctx = canvas.getContext( '2d' );
img = new Image();
img.src = '" + bg_url + "';

if (!req_me) {
req_me = true;
$.getJSON('mypos',function(data){me = data;req_me=false;});
}

if (!req_people) {
req_people = true;
$.getJSON('avatars',function(data){people = data;req_people=false;});
}

ctx.save();
if (img.complete) {
ctx.drawImage( img, 0, 0, canvas.getAttribute('width'), canvas.getAttribute('height') );
}

plot(ctx,people,'#FF0000','#FFFFFF',5);
plot(ctx,me,'#FFFFFF','#000000',7);
ctx.restore();
setTimeout( updateMap, 500 );
}
</script><base href='" + url + "/' /></head>
<body style='background: #FFFFFF; width: 100%; height: 100%; margin: 0px;' onLoad='updateMap();'>
<canvas id='myCanvas' width='256' height='256' style='position:fixed; top:0px; left:0px;'>
Canvas unsupported.
</canvas></body></html>";
}

set_url(string url)
{
build_index(url);

llSetLinkMedia(LINK_THIS, display_face, // Side to display the media on.
[PRIM_MEDIA_AUTO_PLAY,TRUE, // Show this page immediately
PRIM_MEDIA_CURRENT_URL,url, // The url if they hit 'home'
PRIM_MEDIA_HOME_URL,url, // The url currently showing
PRIM_MEDIA_HEIGHT_PIXELS,256, // Height/width of media texture will be
PRIM_MEDIA_WIDTH_PIXELS,256, // rounded up to nearest power of 2.
PRIM_MEDIA_PERMS_CONTROL, PRIM_MEDIA_PERM_NONE]);

llOwnerSay("Mem: " + (string)llGetUsedMemory());
}

default
{
state_entry() { llRequestURL(); }
on_rez(integer i) { llResetScript(); }
changed(integer c)
{
if (c & (CHANGED_REGION | CHANGED_TELEPORT | CHANGED_OWNER))
{ llResetScript(); }
}

http_request(key id, string method, string body)
{
if (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED)
{
set_url(body);
}
else if (method == URL_REQUEST_DENIED)
{
llOwnerSay("Failed to get url: " + body);
}

if (method == "GET")
{
list path = llParseString2List(llGetHTTPHeader(id,"x-path-info"),["/"],[]);

if (llGetListLength(path) == 0)
{
llSetContentType(id,CONTENT_TYPE_HTML);

llHTTPResponse(id,200,index_html);
}
else if (llList2String(path,0) == "mypos")
{
vector my_pos = llGetPos();
llHTTPResponse(id,200,"[[" + (string)((integer)my_pos.x) + "," + (string)(256 - (integer)my_pos.y) + "]]");
}
else if (llList2String(path,0) == "avatars")
{
list avatars = llGetAgentList(AGENT_LIST_REGION,[]);

string body = "[";
integer i;
integer n = llGetListLength(avatars);
for(i=0;i<n;++i)
{
if (i != 0) body += ",";
vector pos = llList2Vector(llGetObjectDetails(llList2Key(avatars,i),[OBJECT_POS]),0);
body += "[" + (string)((integer)pos.x) + "," + (string)(256 - (integer)pos.y) + "]";
}
body += " ]";
llHTTPResponse(id,200,body);
}
}
}
}
</lsl>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group

2012-04-09T16:15:58Z

Kelly Linden:

{{User Group Page
|purpose=
This meeting is focused on scripting in Second Life. Meetings alternate between Jira triage of the SCR project and general discussion of scripting issues.
|date-time=
Mondays at 9 in Pacific time (SL standard time)
|location=
[http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Ambleside/157/91/30 Ambleside]
|team=
Kelly Linden and Charlar Linden. Please contact one of us if you are unsure if your topic is relevant or appropriate.
|agenda=
 
'''General Schedule:'''
*9:00 - 9:05: Welcome
*9:05 - 9:15: News
*9:15 - 10:00: Triage or Discussion
 
'''Jira Triage''' 
First and Third Monday's of each month are Jira Triage.
: We will work from [https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=14052 this jira filter] on issues in the SCR project to discuss severity and complexity of bug reports and general feasibility and usability of feature requests.
 

 
'''General Discussion''' 
Second, Fourth and Fifth Monday's of each month are general discussion.
: Open discussion for specific jiras or topics brought up by attendees. Occasionally the Linden hosts may have specific topics as well.

|archive=
* [[Content_Creation/Scripting_User_Group/Transcripts]]

}}
[[Category:LSL]]

LlGetAgentList

2012-03-21T21:13:18Z

Kelly Linden:

LlGetAgentList

2012-03-20T20:42:43Z

Kelly Linden:

{{LSL_Function
|inject-2={{Issues/Svc-5488}}{{Issues/MISC-243}}{{LSL_Function/avatar|avatar|sim=*}}
|func=llGetAgentList
|sort=GetAgentList
|func_id=0
|func_sleep=0.0
|func_energy=0
|func_desc=Requests a list of agents currently in the region, limited by the flags parameter.
* AGENT_LIST_PARCEL - returns only agents on the same parcel where the script is running.
* AGENT_LIST_PARCEL_OWNER - returns only agents on any parcel in the region where the parcel owner is the same as the owner of the parcel under the scripted object.
* AGENT_LIST_REGION - returns any/all agents in the region.
|func_footnote=
|return_type=list
|return_text=[key id0, key id1, ..., key idn] or [string error_msg] - returns avatar keys for all agents in the region limited to the area specified by flags
|spec=
|p1_type=integer|p1_name=max_agents|p1_desc=Maximum number of agents to return in the list. Must be greater than 0 and less than 200. |p1_hover=max agents to return
|p2_type=integer|p2_name=flags|p2_desc=selection flags|p2_hover=selection flags
|constants=
|caveats=
* There is no guaranteed understandable order or randomness to the list returned.
* If there are more agents than max_agents, the agents returned will not be random nor meaningfully ordered.
* If no agents enter or leave the list returned will probably not change.
** Example: in a region with 20 agents, llGetAgentList(5,AGENT_LIST_REGION) will return 5 arbitrary agents. It will probably return the same 5 as long as no one enters or leaves the region, but that is not guaranteed. It will not cycle through the agents in any way and the 5 agents returned are not random.
** Example: llGetAgentList(1,AGENT_LIST_PARCEL) is '''NOT''' a good way to get 1 random resident on a parcel because the result is '''not random'''.
* It is recommended to set max_agents as high as needed for the possible number of agents to process and low enough that a list with that many UUIDs would not cause a Stack-Heap Collision error.
* Examples and shared code should use 100 for max_agents unless specifically required to be something else: this will ensure that the script will work in all current regions in Second Life.
|examples=<lsl>//Displays up to 100 avatar key: name pairs detected in the entire region
list gaAgents;
integer giMaxAgentsToReturn = 100;

default
{
touch_start(integer total_number)
{
integer i;
integer liCount;

gaAgents = llGetAgentList(giMaxAgentsToReturn,AGENT_LIST_REGION);
liCount = llGetListLength(gaAgents);
if (liCount > 0)
if (llGetListEntryType(gaAgents,0) == TYPE_STRING)
llOwnerSay("Error: "+llList2String(gaAgents,0));
else
for (i=0; i < liCount; ++i)
llOwnerSay(llList2String(gaAgents,i)+": "+llKey2Name(llList2String(gaAgents,i)));
}
}</lsl>
|helpers
|also_header
|also_functions=
|also_tests
|also_events
|also_articles
|also_footer
|notes=
|mode=request
|deprecated
|location
|cat1=Functions
|cat2
|cat3
|cat4
|cat5
|cat6
}}

LlGetAgentList

2012-03-20T20:32:04Z

Kelly Linden:

LlGetAgentList

2012-03-20T20:29:20Z

Kelly Linden:

Content Creation/Scripting User Group

2012-01-10T18:25:06Z

Kelly Linden:

{{User Group Page
|purpose=
This meeting is focused on scripting in Second Life. Meetings alternate between Jira triage of the SCR project and general discussion of scripting issues.
|date-time=
Mondays at 9 in Pacific time (SL standard time)
|location=
[http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Ambleside/157/91/30 Ambleside]
|team=
Kelly Linden and Charlar Linden. Please contact one of us if you are unsure if your topic is relevant or appropriate.
|agenda=
 
'''General Schedule:'''
*9:00 - 9:05: Welcome
*9:05 - 9:15: News
*9:15 - 10:00: Triage or Discussion
 
'''Jira Triage''' 
First and Third Monday's of each month are Jira Triage.
: We will work from [https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=14052 this jira filter] on issues in the SCR project to discuss severity and complexity of bug reports and general feasibility and usability of feature requests.
 
'''General Discussion''' 
Second, Fourth and Fifth Monday's of each month are general discussion.
: Open discussion for specific jiras or topics brought up by attendees. Occasionally the Linden hosts may have specific topics as well.

|archive=
* [[Content_Creation/Scripting_User_Group/Transcripts]]

}}
[[Category:Scripting]]

Content Creation/Scripting User Group

2012-01-10T18:23:57Z

Kelly Linden:

{{User Group Page
|purpose=
This meeting is focused on scripting in Second Life. Meetings alternate between Jira triage of the SCR project and general discussion of scripting issues.
|date-time=
Mondays at 9 in Pacific time (SL standard time)
|location=
[http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Ambleside/157/91/30 Ambleside]
|team=
Kelly Linden and Charlar Linden. Please contact one of us if you are unsure if your topic is relevant or appropriate.
|agenda=
 
'''General Schedule:'''
*9:00 - 9:05: Welcome
*9:05 - 9:15: News
*9:15 - 10:00: Triage or Discussion
 
'''Jira Triage''' 
First and Third Monday's of each month are Jira Triage.
: We will work from [https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=14052 this jira filter] on issues in the SCR project to discuss severity and complexity of bug reports and general feasibility and usability of feature requests.
 
'''General Discussion''' 
Second, Fourth and Fifth Monday's of each month are general discussion.
: Open discussion for specific jiras or topics brought up by attendees. Occasionally the Linden hosts may have specific topics as well.

|archive=
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Scripting_User_Group/Transcripts

* [[Content Creation, Mesh Import, Scripting User Group/Archive]]

}}
[[Category:Scripting]]

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts

2012-01-10T18:23:23Z

Kelly Linden:

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|+ '''2011'''
|-
| align="center" |
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''January'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| <del> 3 </del> || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7
|-
| <del> 10 </del> || 11 || 12|| 13 || 14
|-
| <del> 17 </del> || 18 || 19 || 20 || 21
|-
| <del> 24 </del> || 25 || 26 || 26 || 28
|-
| <del> 31 </del>
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''Feburary'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || 1 || 2 || 3 || 4
|-
| <del> 7 </del> || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11
|-
| [[/2011_02_14 | 14]] || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18
|-
| <del> 21 </del> || 22 || 23 || 24 || 25
|-
| <del> 28 </del>
|}
|
{| style="align: center; text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''March'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || 1 || 2 || 3 || 4
|-
| [[/2011_03_07 | 7]] || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11
|-
| [[/2011_03_14 | 14]] || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18
|-
| [[/2011_03_21 | 21]] || 22 || 23 || 24 || 25
|-
| <del> 28 </del> || 29 || 30 || 31
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''April'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || || || || 1
|-
| <del>4 </del> || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8
|-
| <del>11 </del> || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15
|-
| [[/2011_04_18 | 18]] || 19 || 20 || 21 || 22
|-
| <del>25 </del> || 26 || 27 || 28
|}
|-
| align="center" |
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''May'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| [[/2011_05_02 | 2]] || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6
|-
| [[/2011_05_09 | 9]] || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13
|-
| [[/2011_05_16 | 16]] || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
|-
| [[/2011_05_23 | 23]] || 24 || 25 || 26 || 27
|-
| <del> 30 </del> || 31 || ||
|}
|
{| style="align: center; text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''June'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || || 1 || 2 || 3
|-
| [[/2011_06_06 | 6]] || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10
|-
| [[/2011_06_13 | 13]] || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17
|-
| [[/2011_06_20 | 20]] || 21 || 22 || 23 || 24
|-
| [[/2011_06_27 | 27]] || 28 || 29 || 30 ||
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''July'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || || || || 1
|-
| <del> 04 </del> || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8
|-
| [[/2011_07_11 | 11]] || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15
|-
| <del> 18 </del> || 19 || 20 || 21 || 22
|-
| [[/2011_07_25 | 25]] || 26 || 27 || 28 || 29
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''August'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| <del> 1 </del> || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5
|-
| [[/2011_08_08 | 8]] || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12
|-
| [[/2011_08_15 | 15]] || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19
|-
| <del> 22 </del> || 23 || 24 || 25 || 26
|-
| [[/2011_08_29 | 29]] || 30 || 31 ||
|}
|-
| align="center" |
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''September'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || || || 1 || 2
|-
| <del> 5 </del> || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9
|-
| [[/2011_09_12 | 12]] || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16
|-
| [[/2011_09_19 | 19]] || 20 || 21 || 22 || 23
|-
| <del> 26 </del> || 26 || 27 || 28 || 29
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''October'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F

|-
| <del> 3 </del> || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7
|-
| <del> 10 </del> || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14
|-
| <del> 17 </del> || 18 || 19 || 20 || 21
|-
| [[/2011_10_24 | 24]] || 25 || 26 || 27 || 28
|-
| <del> 31 </del> || || || ||
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''November'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || 1 || 2 || 3 || 4
|-
| [[/2011_11_07 | 7]] || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11
|-
| [[/2011_11_14 | 14]] || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18
|-
| <del> 21 </del> || 22 || 23 || 24 || 25
|-
| [[/2011_11_28 | 28]] || 29 || 30 ||
|}
|
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''December'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| || || || 1 || 2
|-
| [[/2011_12_05 | 5]] || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9
|-
| [[/2011_12_12 | 12]] || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16
|-
| [[/2011_12_19 | 19]] || 20 || 21 || 22 || 23
|-
| <del> 26 </del> || 27 || 28 || 29 || 30
|}
|}
 
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|+ '''2012'''
|-
| align="center" |
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''January'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| <del> 2 </del> || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6
|-
| [[/2012_01_09 | 9]] || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13
|-
| [[/2012_01_16 | 16]] || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
|-
| [[/2012_01_23 | 23]] || 24 || 25 || 26 || 27
|-
| [[/2012_01_30 | 30]] || 31 || ||
|}
| align="center" |
{| style="text-align: center; width: 150px; height: 150px;"
|+ '''February'''
|-
! scope="col" | M
! scope="col" | Tu
! scope="col" | W
! scope="col" | Th
! scope="col" | F
|-
| [[/2012_ _ | ]] || || || ||
|-
| [[/2012_ _ | ]] || || || ||
|-
| [[/2012_ _ | ]] || || || ||
|-
| [[/2012_ _ | ]] || || || ||
|-
| [[/2012_ _ | ]] || || ||
|}
|}

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2012 01 09

2012-01-10T17:58:58Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Faust Vollmar |- |Leonel Iceghost |- |Liisa Runo …"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Faust Vollmar
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Vincent Nacon
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: its all Kelly's fault</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: always</nowiki>

[09:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Here comes the messiah! :P</nowiki>

[09:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: hey Kelly</nowiki>

[09:00] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: hardly messiah...</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think I like Leonel's better</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:01] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: they are saying that it is all your fault</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: he's too boney for that</nowiki>

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Ave Kelly</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I hope everyone has had a good weekend, and a good new year if I didn't see you at any of the other groups last week.</nowiki>

[09:02] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah, you saw most of us from friday anyway</nowiki>

[09:02] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: We're all UG addicts...</nowiki>

[09:02] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: UG?</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: User Group...</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The new name or OH</nowiki>

[09:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: for*</nowiki>

[09:03] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: we are addict to a break from our real jobs</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh ok, scared me into thinking you meant "underground"</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not that it's implied</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Lets see what I have on the news front.</nowiki>

[09:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I suspects news on Falcon's progress</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We should get the new server-maintenance up on RC this week. For scripting this means llSetRegionPos and "region_idle" for llGetEnv and some llSetKeyframedMotion bug fixes</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Region_idle?</nowiki>

[09:05] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: ?</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Never heard of this one!</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: typo</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: "frame_number"</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: sorry</nowiki>

[09:05] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: that's a big typo</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: haha</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah! hehehe</nowiki>

[09:05] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: region_idle = false</nowiki>

[09:06] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: And that's that?</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: No PRIM_POS_REGION?</nowiki>

[09:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: what for?</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sorry I was thinking about sim stats. There is a back-end feature in this release that relates to scripting but will require new viewers to see - I've added</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I've added a % scripts run stat</nowiki>

[09:07] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: To do the same thing that llSetRegionPos() but with llSLPPF()</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There is no PRIM_POS_REGION at this time.</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: gotch ya.... you can't use it in linkset</nowiki>

[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yes, you can... llSLPPF(LINK_THIS or LINK_ROOT...</nowiki>

[09:08] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Kekkz, which viweer would we see it in?</nowiki>

[09:08] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: This was discussed at Andrew's meeting -- there is a good reason for not being able to pack too much into 1 call</nowiki>

[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Well, you could.</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: well... hmm</nowiki>

[09:08] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Kellz^ sorry</nowiki>

[09:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Could you pass me the change to the stats structure so I can pass it on to the firestorm devs.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Nal, none yet. It hasn't made it through the pipeline yet.</nowiki>

[09:08] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: ROOT_REGION_POS? would take any link number</nowiki>

[09:08] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: what is the good reason?</nowiki>

[09:08] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: k</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: could but might be problematic before it can be safely avoid the call</nowiki>

[09:09] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: if otherwise</nowiki>

[09:09] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: wait... nevermind... carry on</nowiki>

[09:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The more you put into a call the longer it takes...</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: New stat number 35 is the average % of scripts run during a frame. 100% means that all scripts are getting a chance to run every frame, and less than that means that fewer scripts are.</nowiki>

[09:10] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Thanks.</nowiki>

[09:11] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: The compiler removes all the things that makes it readable anyway? So putting a separate llSetRP wouldn't be any difference?</nowiki>

[09:11] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, will you write a little note about this on opensource-dev, so people can make necessary changes?</nowiki>

[09:11] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: A curious drop point you chose there Kelly. =p</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We can not split up an llSPPF call across multiple frames, so if you do enough to use up more than the time slice (which isn't that hard) then you can impact performance perhaps significantly. This is something we need to addres really but have not.</nowiki>

[09:11] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Can someone IM me what I've missed?</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: figured</nowiki>

[09:12] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Has someone ever compiled a wiki page with tips and tricks of optimizing scripts?</nowiki>

[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hmmm... PRIM_LINK_TARGET should be use very cautiously then...</nowiki>

[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: used*</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes, it should.</nowiki>

[09:13] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: just like walking agents, should not walk too much, better to ride NPV :P</nowiki>

[09:13] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Thanks, got the backlog now</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Especially since changing child prim positions or shapes are some of the most expensive things LSL can do.</nowiki>

[09:13] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Hum, mind if a rez something?</nowiki>

[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I've optimlized a few scripts to use only 1 llSLPPF() call instead of several... Hmmm... Maybe I should undo it...</nowiki>

[09:14] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: naa just wait bit longer</nowiki>

[09:14] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Kaluura; </nowiki>http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=boolean

[09:14] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ;)</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is a balancing act, fewer calls is a bit better for the individual script but reduces the simulator's ability to manage script times.</nowiki>

[09:15] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: I think nesting a lot is one way. As the number of possible results for many integers rise exponentially with every new individual integer.</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: In this specific case setting the region wide position for the entire object is a significant act that we don't really want happening dozens of times in a single call. The way updates are applied it is actually difficult to reduce it down to the single effective action</nowiki>

[09:15] Tiger (levio.serenity)<nowiki>: yea i just redid all the meeroo animations to pack everytyhing into a single call every chance it could</nowiki>

[09:16] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Am I off topic?</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: IF we were to add an llSPPF constant for it, we would probably need to add extra restrictions - like failing the call if used twice.</nowiki>

[09:16] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: naa David, you just blew their mind</nowiki>

[09:17] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: No problem with me... It would be stupid to do several region pos in one line...</nowiki>

[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: so the llSPPF can't be "interrupted"?</nowiki>

[09:17] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: I cant see a legitimate use for regionpos being used more than once in a single frame like that</nowiki>

[09:17] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: most of the people who i have been talking to, have said that they will not edit theri scripts to use llSetRegionPos, but instead they are waiting for the llSPPF call</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: that is their choice. No such functionality has been promised though.</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh there are few, Fasut</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Faust*</nowiki>

[09:18] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Why would they wait?</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: weapons jumping across the grids</nowiki>

[09:18] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: to sync the movement with rotation, for example</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: Correctish. We can interrupt it and stop processing any more rules - ie break out of it. We can't currently continue where we left off.</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: nods</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Stop != interrupt</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you need to sync movement with rotation to the point that a single frame matters - do you really need the region-wide position set?</nowiki>

[09:19] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: It's just OCDin</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: maybe for some fast bullets</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[09:20] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: it is either that, one 5 lines of code to determine if we need to use long range or short range movement</nowiki>

[09:20] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: or 5lines *</nowiki>

[09:20] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: say you teleport, you don't want to see you moving and rotating in different frames</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Do the current hacks that llSetRegionPos replaces work inside lists of other changes in llSPPF?</nowiki>

[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Exactly...</nowiki>

[09:20] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Doesn't llSetRegioPos bypass the place inbewteen?</nowiki>

[09:20] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Yep they do</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alve: it does.</nowiki>

[09:21] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: also posJump ignore the space inbetween, but LL broke it</nowiki>

[09:21] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: WarpPos however strains memory pretty hard so not sure exactly how much more you can do in a single call</nowiki>

[09:21] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Then I can only see it as a viable weapon in Space opera sims where they have hyperspace mines and stuff.</nowiki>

[09:21] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: broke? more like fixed!</nowiki>

[09:21] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[09:21] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: WarpPos is obsolete... JumpPos replaced it.</nowiki>

[09:22] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: I stuck to Warp because of how often Jump's cornerstone bug was fixed and reverted.</nowiki>

[09:22] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Figured I could just wait for the official</nowiki>

[09:23] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Can llTargetOmega be used in llSetLinkPrimFast?</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alve: PRIM_OMEGA</nowiki>

[09:23] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Ah yeah, a -reason- for failure would be nice.</nowiki>

[09:24] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Some failures are permanent, others are more transitory</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sorry, it is only success or failure.</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What failures are transitory?</nowiki>

[09:24] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Nice. Would it be better to take the wheel spin scripts out of the tires and put PRIM_OMEGA in the main script instead?</nowiki>

[09:24] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Failure to cross into a new region</nowiki>

[09:24] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Less likely: failure to enter a parcel</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alve: yes</nowiki>

[09:25] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Thanks!</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right so next on news</nowiki>

[09:26] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oy... kept more news from us, eh?</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We are always building the next sever maint project, even as one enters QA. I do have something from the one coming up after the one going to RC tomorrow that I'd like to share.</nowiki>

[09:27] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I went though some of the more expensive list and string operation library calls to improve their performance for mono scripts.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Wow!!!</nowiki>

[09:27] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yay</nowiki>

[09:27] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: <3 (Platonic ofcourse)</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Specifically: llList2List, llDeleteSubList, llGetListEntryType, llListInsertList, llListFindList, llDumpList2String, llListReplaceList</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And llVecMag, llVecNorm, llVecDist, llDeleteSubString, llStringLength, llInsertString, llSubStringIndex</nowiki>

[09:27] Tiger (levio.serenity)<nowiki>: sweet</nowiki>

[09:27] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: sounds like a fun job there, Kelly</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Most are at least 2x faster, except llDumpList2String which isn't much faster at all - maybe 40%.</nowiki>

[09:28] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: What amount of improvement were you able to wring out of them?</nowiki>

[09:28] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I'm impressed</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The biggest wins are llList2List at ~100x better, llGetListEntryType at ~150x</nowiki>

[09:28] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: !</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: sdlkjafl</nowiki>

[09:29] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Wow. Gonna have to get ready to replace some llGetSubString with llDeleteSubString ins a number of places.... And holy hell on that List2List</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llDeleteSubString is about 20x, llStringLength ~50x</nowiki>

[09:29] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: I think some heads exploded...</nowiki>

[09:29] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: sounds good, next the complex string operations to the tuning table?</nowiki>

[09:29] FooBar (data.landau)<nowiki>: nice</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llInsertString ~20x</nowiki>

[09:29] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: My head exploded...</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llDeleteSubList also about 20x</nowiki>

[09:29] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, could you publish this data somewhere?</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: For most of these the performance improvement is more significant the larger the list or string being worked on?</nowiki>

[09:30] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not really surprised by the speed since Mono is mostly made up of those speed anyway.. just some minor polishing</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: er no ? needed.</nowiki>

[09:30] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Considering noone has even posted Kelly's transcripts since last April... I figured all this stuff was a "if you arent here to see it, you miss it."</nowiki>

[09:30] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: =p</nowiki>

[09:30] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Honestly, could we get a wikipage that is all about optimizing? Saying things like "this solution is better than this solution" and stuff like that?</nowiki>

[09:30] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: are you compiling to more direct arrays?</nowiki>

[09:30] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I think we do have a page about that</nowiki>

[09:30] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: maybe not with Mono counterpart</nowiki>

[09:31] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Yeah the page is all old LSO stuff</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alve: there have been some, I'm not quite yet to open discussion.</nowiki>

[09:31] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Do you mean about that topic or that we are still on the news part of the meeting?</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: still in the news part.</nowiki>

[09:32] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Aah.</nowiki>

[09:32] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Sorry</nowiki>

[09:32] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: First time here.</nowiki>

[09:32] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: np</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: For these numbers I was counting number of calls I could do in 5 seconds on two dataset sizes 100 chars or list items and 1000 chars or list items and averaged the two.</nowiki>

[09:33] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: when lists grow they seem to become really slow, is it still true?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I was happy with the results.</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: for these functions now it is much less true.</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Or will be when this is released.</nowiki>

[09:34] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, do you have a "busy" test region you can try these changes on, to see how much overall performance is affected?</nowiki>

[09:34] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Somewhat surprised theres no change on the llList2 set at all.</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Even when I have a busy region to test it rarely matches the load characteristics of a region actually in use.</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The llList2 set is alreayd optimized.</nowiki>

[09:35] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Too bad you do not have some way to record and playback data from a "in use" region</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We have in the past tried products that promise such features at the network level. They have historically been unable to cope with our data set.</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay, that is all the news I have. The currently outstanding topic is a community effort to document script optimizations.</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I know there have been efforts for this in the past, but I'd believe they are out dated.</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And many (<cough>strife</cough>) sacrifice readability so much many probably end up writing worse scripts trying to use the optimizations.</nowiki>

[09:38] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Its kinda nice that LL is fixing and improving things so fast the docs can't keep up.</nowiki>

[09:38] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I prefer readability to 2ms optimizations...</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If anyone wants to start a page, gather some tricks, I'd be happy to comment and edit and discuss at one of these meetings.</nowiki>

[09:39] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: I would love such information. Wouldn't it be in LL interest to actually do such a project themselves? Lag is a big issue that i think turn new users away.</nowiki>

[09:39] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: those 2ms optimizations should be kept for those that make automated preprocesors</nowiki>

[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The junction set of people who write good clean code and the set of people who write good clear English is NULL</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There are relatively few things scripts can do that will cause sim lag. Most of what scripts do will only effect script performance.</nowiki>

[09:39] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: ?</nowiki>

[09:40] Tiger (levio.serenity)<nowiki>: finally a linden i can quote saying that, cuz noone believes me when i say it</nowiki>

[09:40] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I'm adding this in quotes ofthe century...</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The exceptions being llSPPF and rezing objects - mostly. There are exceptions.</nowiki>

[09:40] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: But, from a user viewpoint, a badly Ã¥performing vehicle script is the same thing as sim lag.</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Essentially the lag comes from what the script causes the simulator to do, not from running the script itself.</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: also any shape change lags the physics</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Optimizing your list initialization isn't going to effect the sim's lag.</nowiki>

[09:41] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Does this include ojects that are phantom?`Or completely inclosed in a collision prim?</nowiki>

[09:42] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: phantom shape doesn't matter</nowiki>

[09:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: It's so hard to convince people of that (scripts qua scripts, don't cause lag)</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It all boils down to what the script causes the sim to do. If the script causes computationally expensive things then it will cause sim lag. In fact if you optimize the rest of your script to be super fast it is possible you could be calling 'expensive' functions quicker or more frequently and cause more lag! (though I expect that would be very rare)</nowiki>

[09:43] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: but they do, you have to see people playing something in a sim without scripts, and a sim with scripts and they naturally start to shout "LAAAGGGG"</nowiki>

[09:44] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: The physics stuff is why I moved toward being one of the people pushing llCastRay for certain things, heh.</nowiki>

[09:44] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: shame about that accounting bug right now though</nowiki>

[09:45] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... And its inability to cross border...</nowiki>

[09:45] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Ok, so things like Vendors don't really cause any lag at all?</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: they cause a lot of lag</nowiki>

[09:46] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: vendors can cause lag, especially if they do rapid off-world communications</nowiki>

[09:46] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: I dont think it would even be possible for llCastRay to cross borders without handing off a request to the target sim, which becomes a resource accounting nightmare.</nowiki>

[09:46] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Oh vendors, not likley. Now the fact that vendors tend to be very texture rich,and change textures a lot... now that can cause viewers to bogg down.</nowiki>

[09:47] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Why the semantic distinction that it isn'y scripts that cause lag, it's the calls they do?</nowiki>

[09:47] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: vendors cause lag even if you are in a skybox 3000 meters away</nowiki>

[09:47] Tiger (levio.serenity)<nowiki>: speaking of vendors, any chance of ever seeing a llTransferInventory() function with getting an event back with the results along the lines of llTransferLindenDollars() with the event of the direct delivery project?</nowiki>

[09:48] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: There are some script events that can cause lag.. Creating objects and making objects move are the biggies</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm sure there is some chance Tiger. But not near term. llTransferLindenDollars was made possible by some back end changes. Until a similar thing happens to the back end of inventory transfers we won't be seeing llTransferInventory.</nowiki>

[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: We holding our breath... :P</nowiki>

[09:49] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Doesn't all lines in a script call for a computation?</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alve: if you have a script that just sits there computing all the digits of PI it won't lag the sim. In fact you should be able to have hundreds of those without lagging anything except maybe how fast other scripts run. But if you have a single script constantly rezzing bullets you can effect the overall simulator's performance.</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Effecting the general simulation causes the simulator to do work outside of the script's time box, which is how general lag can be caused.</nowiki>

[09:50] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Alive, the sim schedules scripts to run, it's when other parts of the simulator code are activated that you might get lag</nowiki>

[09:51] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Ah. So LLtargetOmega for instance, isn't that calculated viewerside?</nowiki>

[09:51] Tiger (levio.serenity)<nowiki>: well if you could put the idea in the heads of whoever is doing the backend changes for direct delivery, perhaps they can sneak it in</nowiki>

[09:51] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: can vendor's textures traffic to other viewers lag you even if you are 3000 meters away?</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Correct, target omega is a paramer on a box (like it's name or description) and the effect is viewer side.</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: I'm not up to date on the viewer's handling of texture requests.</nowiki>

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The distance doesn't matter if you're in the same sim...</nowiki>

[09:52] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: the sim has to fetch and send textures to agents wanting to see them, but I don't see how a vendor's operations are any different than an avatar walking around seeing new things</nowiki>

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: yes Kaluura but maybe there is plenty of traffic to use, and it won't lag</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Tiger: When direct delivery is complete (and probably after it has been out for a while so the bugs have been found/fixed) then we may revisit the llTransferInventory feature to see how or what is possible.</nowiki>

[09:53] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Would that mean that if I make a mesh wheel and then have a not round collision box, with mor detail on the underside, I would get a less laggy bike because it's ground contacts have a les complex surface shape, all the while the wheels spin using llTargetOmega?</nowiki>

[09:53] Tiger (levio.serenity)<nowiki>: also on my vendors i would love to be able to view/set the default left click action from a script</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alve: Yes.</nowiki>

[09:53] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, it was announced publically on Friday roughly when DD is going to be released</nowiki>

[09:53] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: "not before St. Valentine's Day"</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Jonathan: oh, cool. I didn't see that.</nowiki>

[09:53] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Do the built-in AO in viewers reduce lag by unlosing scripts or does the viewer to server communication for animation runing cause ore Lag?</nowiki>

[09:54] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you can do that already Tiger</nowiki>

[09:54] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: unlosing=unloading</nowiki>

[09:54] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: I.e., the collision box won't spin. ?</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I have not inspected the various viewer-side AO implementations Nal. I can imagine ways they could be better and ways they could be worse. Though probably they are better than the LSL based solutions.</nowiki>

[09:54] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Just making sure I understand you correctly.</nowiki>

[09:54] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: thx</nowiki>

[09:55] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: you are correct Davido</nowiki>

[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The collision box of objects only rotates if they are physical</nowiki>

[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: (That was for Alve)</nowiki>

[09:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ... but BB does not rotate if the rotating prim is a child on a physical linkset</nowiki>

[09:56] Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray)<nowiki>: DD?</nowiki>

[09:56] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: DD=Direct Delivery</nowiki>

[09:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: or DrawDistance</nowiki>

[09:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:56] Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray)<nowiki>: ty</nowiki>

[09:58] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: as for AO in TPVs they're all shared the same library source</nowiki>

[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Talking about AOs, there was discussions a long time ago about functions to simply replace the default anims...</nowiki>

[09:58] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: do you like Kelly the future of LSL? or do you think you have to take LSO off in orther to improve</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is an interesting idea Leonel.</nowiki>

[09:59] Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray)<nowiki>: just found the Direct Delivery FAQ: </nowiki>http://goo.gl/ahsal

[09:59] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: I think its been said before that LSO holds -alot- back.</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: LSO should be illegal by now</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It does, but it is probably a topic that deservs more than the 30 seconds left in this meeting.</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: LSO will be killed eventually, some day... We can't keep the compatibilty ball-and-chain forever....</nowiki>

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: maybe we should create a movement to take LSO down once for all</nowiki>

[10:00] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah, too many outdated scripts all over the SL</nowiki>

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so new features can be created for MONO</nowiki>

[10:00] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: One thing you could do is force all scripts to be saved as LSL</nowiki>

[10:00] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Isn't it better to pull tghe plug as soon as possible?</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right meeting is over! I have another I must jump to.</nowiki>

[10:00] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: *MONO</nowiki>

[10:01] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: The longer you wait, the more content you're gonna break.</nowiki>

[10:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yup take care</nowiki>

[10:01] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thank you everyone. Great discussion today.</nowiki>

[10:01] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: bye Kelly, thanks a lot</nowiki>

[10:01] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: Most people have a thing in thier head about the whole Mono Bug thing</nowiki>

[10:01] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: thanks everyone</nowiki>

[10:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: gonna need more coffee for Mesh's meeting</nowiki>

[10:01] Ã„lveKatt (davido.chrome)<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly!</nowiki>

[10:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: TC</nowiki>

[10:01] Faust Vollmar<nowiki>: That conception isnt going away</nowiki>

[10:01] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: vincent, me too</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 12 19

2012-01-10T17:58:42Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Ardy Lay |- |Eddi Decosta |- |flexi campfire |- |…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Ardy Lay
|-
|Eddi Decosta
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Stickman Ingmann
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning.</nowiki>

[09:06] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: morning</nowiki>

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly.</nowiki>

[09:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: That will teach you to run iTunes.</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hello, hello...</nowiki>

[09:06] Eddi Decosta<nowiki>: hey Kelly, good morning to ?</nowiki>

[09:06] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Yeah Kelly! U over came the computer!</nowiki>

[09:06] Eddi Decosta<nowiki>: hug lol</nowiki>

[09:06] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Hi Kelly. Deep breaths. Small steps. PUNT!</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Apparently itunes had been stalled since I turned on my computer more or less an hour ago and I just didn't realize it</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And SL couldn't get past initializing vfs while it was.</nowiki>

[09:07] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: iTunes was probably inspecting your cache and things.</nowiki>

[09:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Was iTunes gobbling all your memory as if it was Silvalco?</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I dunno.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Anyway.</nowiki>

[09:08] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: lil*</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This is Win7 64bit.</nowiki>

[09:09] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: iTunes on windows? ok, that is the suprising part</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But, I have become a mac person this year. My personal computer is a mac, and I have i devices.</nowiki>

[09:09] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ^^</nowiki>

[09:09] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: iTunes steal resourses in Win since I remember</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hope everyone had a good weekend.</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Good enough</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I don't remember... Must have been good... =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We got that last maint-server project out last week, and things seem pretty good so far.</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yeay!</nowiki>

[09:12] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: (Kaluura dont forget because of alcohol, he dont use it, he forget stuff cause he is so old, grows moss)</nowiki>

[09:12] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: haha</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So for LSL that means llTransferLindenDollars is grid wide, and llGetParcelMusicURL</nowiki>

[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: No comment...</nowiki>

[09:12] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: What's your take on all the "region crossings fail" complaints buzzing around?</nowiki>

[09:13] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: SOme folks want to blame the viewers now.</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There have always been region crossings fail complaints. I'm not sure what is new now. I know we are working on projects to make it better.</nowiki>

[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I have no problem... Long time a border crossing ever failed on me...</nowiki>

[09:14] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I am curious if the people that say they are low-script and still have problems are really low-script.</nowiki>

[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: It's been a while since I crossed a region border.</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: ah</nowiki>

[09:15] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The worse I've seen happening at border crossing is a bit of drift... And it has been so for such a long time!</nowiki>

[09:15] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I know there is going to be variability due to conditions such as network load/congestion, host load, service process uptime, etc.</nowiki>

[09:17] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I remember a while back .... A network infrastructure project called LL-Net was being talked about a lot.</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We are trying to address the uptime related (ie bloat) issues. In fact this last server maintenance branch had several fixes for that in it. And there are a few already in the next maint-server.</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: LLNet was completed quite a while ago.</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't know a lot of the details but it is essentially a private network between our colos.</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: One thing that has been nice of the weekly Rolls is that the bloat issue hasn't been a big deal.</nowiki>

[09:19] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: It was described as a dedicated optical path to replace VPN tunnels over shared Internet paths.</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: liisa, what in the world are you?</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ardy that sounds like what it is.</nowiki>

[09:19] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: im some kind of space insect</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: With a stylin hat and hand bag</nowiki>

[09:20] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea, im classy</nowiki>

[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Feminine touch...</nowiki>

[09:20] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Hehe</nowiki>

[09:20] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: lol Liisa, your bag</nowiki>

[09:20] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you forgot to leave it at home, you are not very scary with it</nowiki>

[09:21] Kraft (kraftman.gearhead)<nowiki>: depends, every get hit by grandma's purse? ?</nowiki>

[09:21] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: you just need to get to know me better to star tto fear me</nowiki>

[09:21] Kraft (kraftman.gearhead)<nowiki>: *ever*</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So let me see if there is anything interesting in the *next* maint server which should hit RC shortly after the new year.</nowiki>

[09:21] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Now if we could get some of the memory-bloat the viewer addressed .... it's been pretty bad recently. I had to cheat and set LAA (large address aware).</nowiki>

[09:21] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: llSetRegionPos(), of course...</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: "frame_number" option for llGetEnv()</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SVC-7466</nowiki>

[09:22] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7466

<nowiki>[#SVC-7466] A notecard holds more data than a script can read</nowiki>

[09:22] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: llSLPPFast(LINK_ROOT,[REGION_POS</nowiki>

[09:23] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yay, more script mem ?</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Fix for the bug that causes the viewer to show a -1 balance if a script causes a L$ transfer error</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I do think simon was planning on getting llSetRegionPos in there, but I don't see it linked yet. I'll talk to him about that later today.</nowiki>

[09:24] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Simon said something about it last week.</nowiki>

[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: TEll him not to forget PRIM_POS_REGION... We need to be able to do pos and rot at the same time.</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think we may not be doing that one on the first pass.</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you need pos and rot on the same frame you may be limited to 10 meters.</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: You better hurry... You'll soon have a riot with all the broken PosJumps...</nowiki>

[09:26] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: PosJump can be combined with a rot. Very useful for fake TP...</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Honestly, for the use case here of posjump I am not convinced you need same-frame pos and rot changes.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: You know, we don't really need things to happen in 1 frame... 2 frames is fine.</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Everything in a llSPPF happens in a single frame.</nowiki>

[09:28] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Oh, is there a way for a script to detect when the texture on a prim face has changed without having to periodicaly get the texture UUID and compare that with the results of the previous check?</nowiki>

[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Then if you combine PosJump and a rot... One frame... It's possible.</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ardy: Unfortunately not. We tried to fix that once and trigger a 'changed' event and broke a lot of stuff.</nowiki>

[09:29] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Heh, poorly written vendor scripts?</nowiki>

[09:29] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I think I remember that mess.</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: If you do llSetRot(); llSetRegionPos(); it will probably almost always happen in a single frame anyway.</nowiki>

[09:29] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I was disappointed that rollback had to happen.</nowiki>

[09:29] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I seem to recall that in the discussion of llPosjump() they were coniddering having the script give up the processor fro the rest of the frame.</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So were we, ardy. :)</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: Yes, I think that is the current plan.</nowiki>

[09:31] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: That would be a good thing, I think</nowiki>

[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: 1 or 2 frames, we won't see the difference. All that matters is that we get something to replace the broken PosJump...</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Oh, right, I forgot about another feature I added to the next maint server - a new stat that will be sent to viewers.</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: "% of scripts run in a frame"</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Will have to work on getting viewers to show it later.</nowiki>

[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Can we have that infos tranmitted to scripts too?</nowiki>

[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: -s</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: is that % of all scripts in a region?</nowiki>

[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: transmitted*</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So if your region is lightly loaded it will report 100%, if you have so many scripts it takes 2 frames to run them all it will report something around 50%</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Of available for retrieval?</nowiki>

[09:34] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: nice stat</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This is of the scripts running in the region.</nowiki>

[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Would be very appreciate by all the scripters obsessed with lagmeters...</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It probably won't be available to LSL just yet.</nowiki>

[09:34] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: llGetScriptPercent( float runpercent);</nowiki>

[09:35] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Good luck getting anything ADDED to the viewer UI. User Experience keeps ripping stuff out that I was using.</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We got spare time back in the ctrl-shift-1 window</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Should be able to get a % scripts run in there.</nowiki>

[09:36] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: if ((scripts_run < 100%) && (Spare_time > 0)) {server is brocen, automatically summon a techie linden to investigate</nowiki>

[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Ardy it'll be in Firestorm on the next release cycle after the spec is announced, I'll bet l$1</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: heh</nowiki>

[09:36] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I won't be using Firestorm.</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: right, though I'm not sure that is true with homesteads.</nowiki>

[09:37] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I hate homesteads...</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Homesteads have a baked in extra large spare time to share with the other homesteads.</nowiki>

[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: That ain't true with Homesteads</nowiki>

[09:37] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i wonder if i have ever seen a homestead</nowiki>

[09:38] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I think a lot of the mainland water regions are Homesteads, or is that Openspace?</nowiki>

[09:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: for a Honestead it would be Spare_time > 10E-6</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: In any case, this stat is not designed to tell "is the sim loaded", the spare time works fairly well for that. The idea is more to show how heavily loaded it is once you reach the point that spare time is used up.</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: At least for normal regions. For homesteads this could be a better stat to watch than spare time.</nowiki>

[09:39] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea, it will be neat lil piece of info</nowiki>

[09:40] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I'd still like to get script reporting working in the viewer.</nowiki>

[09:40] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: people get more tools to whine about scripts of neighbor while they roll their 50 physical breedables on the terrain</nowiki>

[09:41] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: SCR-133</nowiki>

[09:41] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-133

<nowiki>[#SCR-133] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.</nowiki>

[09:41] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: VWR-23393</nowiki>

[09:41] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23393

<nowiki>[#VWR-23393] Viewer reports script info for the wrong parcel, in some cases</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 133 is a viewer bug.</nowiki>

[09:42] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Move it please?</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah. The server sends all the right data when asked the right questions.</nowiki>

[09:42] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I know it has been batted back and forth some.</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm, actually 133 could be server. I'd have to look more.</nowiki>

[09:43] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Hi Mumbles</nowiki>

[09:43] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: sorry I was delayed.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think it is the same issue as that viewer issue you aleady linked, which is already linked to this issue</nowiki>

[09:44] Eddi Decosta<nowiki>: hey Charlar, long time no see ?</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning charlar.</nowiki>

[09:45] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:45] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Yeah, maybe my issue got cloned.</nowiki>

[09:45] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Several of my old JIRA issues now have other names in the reporter field.</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is odd.</nowiki>

[09:46] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: 48 of them</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: have an example?</nowiki>

[09:48] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Most of them were about stuff that got removed from the viewer so it's not your problem. ;-)</nowiki>

[09:48] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Hmm... One moment.</nowiki>

[09:48] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: I just got in, what's the topic?</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: No topic today.</nowiki>

[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: We're talking about the reproduction of the Jiras in closed space...</nowiki>

[09:49] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: I hopped in because there were a few Jiras of mine that were closed that I was double checking. Reopened two. One is marked incomplete, but was actually fixed.</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Which jiras?</nowiki>

[09:50] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: I just lost it. I arched the email, and my window got closed. Somehow. Looking them up again.</nowiki>

[09:50] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: Archived.</nowiki>

[09:51] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1125<nowiki> Here's the guy that's actually fixed.</nowiki>

[09:51] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#VWR-1125] Clicking Title Bar While Mouselook'd Repositions SL Window</nowiki>

[09:51] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: I think that was one of my first bugs. I was so happy when I found it.</nowiki>

[09:51] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Hmm, Kelly, there were in BTEST and apparently got moved to EXT, archived off and a few were cloned back into VWR.</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah the cloning can cause a new creator, while moving doesn't</nowiki>

[09:52] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: Here's an interesting one that's script related, Kelly. </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6387<nowiki> Should that be moved to the scripting category?</nowiki>

[09:52] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#VWR-6387] multi-prim attachments designed to move on command DO move but DO NOT show as moved when avatar's Z >= 420m</nowiki>

[09:53] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: My links to them don't work now. :-(</nowiki>

[09:54] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: A new issue Just for fun: SVC-7552</nowiki>

[09:54] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7552

<nowiki>[#SVC-7552] World map tile generator renders mesh objects as marshmallows.</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: scripting bugs without examples scripts are pretty close to useless.</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah the map servers don't know how to render meshes.</nowiki>

[09:55] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: Unfortunately, the >420m bug is difficult to reproduce. I haven't found a consistent reproduction.</nowiki>

[09:56] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: have you got the IM I sent you last week Kelly? about the changes with LSO</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: if clicking on it pops it, then it sounds like an update isn't getting sent to the viewer.</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I saw them Leonel.</nowiki>

[09:57] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: Clicking on it used to. But doesn't anymore.</nowiki>

[09:57] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: 3.2.4</nowiki>

[09:57] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I couln't reproduce the "labels" change, I would have to dig in lots of bakups to get it back</nowiki>

[09:58] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and I press Ctrl S every two secs, and it generates a backup every time</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: For that discussion (which there isn't enough time now to bring up today) I'm actually more interested in things you can do in LSL but can't in mono. Most of the issues you sent me are things we probably really can't change.</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And times up!</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I will not be hosting a meeting next week, as it is a holiday, nor the following week, as it is also a holiday.</nowiki>

[10:01] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: Thanks for fixing that Jira resolution, Kelly.</nowiki>

[10:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: See you next year, then... :P</nowiki>

[10:01] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: damn holidays</nowiki>

[10:01] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: thanks everybod</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Which puts the next scripting meeting at the 9th. I should be at the server meeting tomorrow, but not this Friday.</nowiki>

[10:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: See you next year kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: +y</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't know about next tuesday.</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Have a good holiday(s) everyone.</nowiki>

[10:02] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: good bye all,</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 12 12

2012-01-10T17:58:27Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Agent Tairov |- |flexi campfire |- |Ima Mechanique</font…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Agent Tairov
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Ima Mechanique
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Vincent Nacon
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[08:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly!!!!</nowiki>

[08:59] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey kelly.</nowiki>

[08:59] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: hey Nal</nowiki>

[08:59] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: I plan to upgrade to a quad core next week. It will be a while before I can upgrade the MB.</nowiki>

[09:00] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Hi Charlar!</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: What CPU you planning to get?</nowiki>

[09:00] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: hiyas everybody</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning.</nowiki>

[09:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Evening...</nowiki>

[09:00] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: It has to fit in my existing MB so a quad core2</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Ahh.</nowiki>

[09:00] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: best to get new Mobo with new CPU to avoid slot type requirement in upgrading</nowiki>

[09:00] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Another great improvement you can make is to get a good SSD</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Yeeeah, I did what Vincent said.</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: instead of one at a time</nowiki>

[09:01] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: I agree Vin, its a matter of money.</nowiki>

[09:01] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: AMD X4, new motherboard, 8GiB RAM = Â£242.</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: then save up and wait</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: Good morning (UGT) </nowiki>http://thinkmoult.com/ugt.html

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: ;)</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: morning</nowiki>

[09:01] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: lol... wait me wait... I don't need no stinking wait!</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah but it'll save you money</nowiki>

[09:02] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: And you'll get more performance doing so.</nowiki>

[09:02] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Its total expenditure vs cash flow.</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay! Scripting user group time</nowiki>

[09:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yay!</nowiki>

[09:03] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: \o/</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: be sure to check in for Newegg.com's sales</nowiki>

[09:03] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: ty</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hope everyone had a good weekend. I think the plan is to get LeTigre's server-maintenance promoted to server-release tomorrow.</nowiki>

[09:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hopefully no sex beds will break.</nowiki>

[09:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: That can be soooo embarassing</nowiki>

[09:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah, quit breaking sex beds!</nowiki>

[09:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: That depends on how they break</nowiki>

[09:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Sex beds... The most vital component of SL... -.-</nowiki>

[09:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Haha</nowiki>

[09:05] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Hey its how we get new users</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: After this week there is a 2 week "no change window" so no new releases until next year I believe</nowiki>

[09:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: so asking for new features before christmas isn't going to happen? awwww...</nowiki>

[09:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Le Tiger has SVC-5927 right?</nowiki>

[09:06] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927

<nowiki>[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Nope... List to Santa is closed!</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: we won't be stopping coding Vincent, will see how crowded the release pipe gets come new years</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yup</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: it looks like it does.</nowiki>

[09:07] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I hope LR are in the pipes for 2012...</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: (although that said, vincent, it is a popular time to take vacation)</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh I know, just figured to poke about it</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I believe we are still working out the details on that Kaluura. I will be sure to bring it up as soon as I have news about it.</nowiki>

[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I just want TP on collision... I don't ask much...</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: TP on collision?</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: like... death?</nowiki>

[09:09] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: nah, teleport to location, like for stargates.</nowiki>

[09:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: no, to the cornfield</nowiki>

[09:09] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: on collisions, or what ever event, just llTPAgent</nowiki>

[09:09] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yes, being able to TP somebody on collision... Which means llTeleportAgent() or whatever name it will have.</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah that one is going to be tricky, as we all know.</nowiki>

[09:09] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:10] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: tricky? tad of an understatement</nowiki>

[09:10] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: I'veheard the idea of only allow those functions for Premium users. Is that possible Kelly?</nowiki>

[09:10] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: To me, that's pretty much the only thing visible in LR... The rest I can do with all the existing functions.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Anything is possible Nal, but I haven't heard that yet.</nowiki>

[09:10] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh, I've been meaning to ask Falcon... which is SL using now? Havok 2011.2 VS2010 or VS2008?</nowiki>

[09:10] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Will TpAgent also work on avatar(s) on a vehicle, or is that something else?</nowiki>

[09:11] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: it will</nowiki>

[09:11] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: but vehicles will not get TP</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We still compile the server on windows with 2005. However all production is linux.</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I like your confidence, Liisa... hehehe</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ah ok</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Jonathan: I'm not sure how it works there.</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: been trying to read up some of the library source in Havok's engine</nowiki>

[09:12] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: I guess we'd need the official version of warpPos for the vehicle condition</nowiki>

[09:12] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: also, when you got the permission system done for the TP and attach like in LR, would also be very usefull to get scripted sit on object</nowiki>

[09:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Without having to have RLV</nowiki>

[09:13] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not fond with kinky part, eh? I see.</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The official warppos may not be able to cross region borders.</nowiki>

[09:13] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: and why should it?</nowiki>

[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That would be real pity....</nowiki>

[09:14] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: so we need to check if we are attempting to go over the border, before every lil movement, lots of wasted resources there</nowiki>

[09:15] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Kelly, would that drop the move entirely, or stop at the border?</nowiki>

[09:15] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Sure... The official version won't be used if it doesn't do all that the unofficial one does.</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thats why I mentioned it, to get some feedback. There is benefits internally to making it same-region only.</nowiki>

[09:16] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i guess LL know better if those benefits are worth the trouble of doing the checks in LSL side</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ima: If it takes absolute positions it may drop the move entirely? I'm not sure. Remember that this is a theoretical and not promised future feature. :)</nowiki>

[09:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I'm sure that it is simpler to be intraregion.</nowiki>

[09:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: but interregion is , in the end, more useful.</nowiki>

[09:16] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: makes sense for absolute coords</nowiki>

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Any way, no need to rush anything on PosJump... llTeleportAgent() is much more interesting....</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: However if being same region-only is a dealbreaker, what would work? How far must you be able to get into the neighboring region.</nowiki>

[09:18] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i dont need to go very far, as long as i can go there, i can spam it more once im in</nowiki>

[09:18] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Kelly, are we assuming it will be limited to the same owners land?</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Part of the problem is sorting out parcel options for the parcels in the neighboring region to know if the move can succeed before the object changes regions</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ima: No, but the object must be able to enter and stay on the destination parcel.</nowiki>

[09:18] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: If one can cross a region boundary, what happens if one tries to cross multiple regions?</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: A single call won't work for multiple region cross, there is too much overhead in sorting out any kind of object transfer that isn't to a neighboring region</nowiki>

[09:19] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Good question... Never tested to jump over regions... yet!</nowiki>

[09:20] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i have tested, works as good as warp, llSetPos might be lil more reliable, but all nonphys moves over the border is better done with helmet</nowiki>

[09:22] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: and what comes to the parcel permissions, only test that makes any difference is the check if the agent can enter the parcel, object restrictions never worked anyway</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We would rather they did work. :)</nowiki>

[09:23] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: you only work here, you dont live here ;)</nowiki>

[09:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Remember "Thou shalt not break existing content."</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ah speaking of - yesterday was my 9 year rez day for my alt! \o/</nowiki>

[09:24] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: congrats</nowiki>

[09:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Happy rez day</nowiki>

[09:25] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: Happy late Rezday</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: 9 years! Gaaaah! A veteran!</nowiki>

[09:25] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i forgot the name of your ALT though</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ama Omega, it is in my profile.</nowiki>

[09:25] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Wow, you cannot have a rezz day much earlier</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It was pretty early beta.</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Though I have some friends who were in alpha.</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The world was a (much smaller) different place then. :p</nowiki>

[09:26] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Philip is 2002-03-14</nowiki>

[09:26] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Andrew is probably old too.</nowiki>

[09:26] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Andrew: 2002-06-04</nowiki>

[09:27] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: Anddrew has sexy UUID</nowiki>

[09:27] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I've met a really old resident with the name "a Apple", too bad he's not search-able because of the requirement of letters to make the search.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I'm having a hard time imagining SL with only 16 regions...</nowiki>

[09:27] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: heh, yes, you could pick your UUID back then</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think doug got the 0001 uuid though.</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think when I joined we didn't even have 16.</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Though we did shortly after.</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It was a big deal when they brought the 'color' regions online - doubling the size of the grid!</nowiki>

[09:29] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^= You're starting to show your SL age...</nowiki>

[09:29] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: and that's bad?</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: At that point in beta the grid wasn't even open 24hours.</nowiki>

[09:29] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It closed at night, though they just blocked logins so you could stay logged in as long as they weren't pushing out new code / restarting regions.</nowiki>

[09:31] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I think it was Wednesday.</nowiki>

[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I was there too... Black wednesdays...</nowiki>

[09:31] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: I once signed on after a reboot Wednesday and the whole grid had about 800 people on it</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Well, I could remenice for the next half hour, unless anyone has any scripting topics they'd like to discuss?</nowiki>

[09:31] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: And you had to download a new viewer every wee</nowiki>

[09:31] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: how about sounds and particles?</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I remember when 800 peak concurrency was a big deal.</nowiki>

[09:32] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: it was wednesday, I used to stay offline all Thursday just to let the grid recover ;-)</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We used to log in (internally) and jump around the grid trying to cause the caches to preload before we let 'normal' users in.</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: bet you didn't know that.</nowiki>

[09:32] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:33] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: we are all scripters, we know lots of things ;)</nowiki>

[09:33] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: one semi related thing kelly, script load/save is making it's way through QA, should make it into the viewer soon</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Teh good old days of hair and boot up your rump</nowiki>

[09:34] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I've ... -never-, experienced that.</nowiki>

[09:34] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ahh 2007, don't remind me that</nowiki>

[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I really don't miss that and the Ruth av...</nowiki>

[09:34] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Ruth is still around</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Great Ima, I was watching your code reviews on the mailing list. That is a good feature.</nowiki>

[09:34] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: I had a gallery of mt ruthed avatars. I was a cute ruth</nowiki>

[09:35] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Kelly, I'd like to add it at the Build/Upload level, but that may take some doing ;-)</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah.</nowiki>

[09:36] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: messing with inventory directly is a minefield</nowiki>

[09:36] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: I have been saving VWR-25835 to look at some day, but don't understand how some of those switches would work</nowiki>

[09:36] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25835

<nowiki>[#VWR-25835] Support more %x options for debug setting externalEditor</nowiki>

[09:36] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Ima, feel free to take that on if you are looking for something to do</nowiki>

[09:37] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: looking at it now Jonathon, wasn't aware of it before ;-)</nowiki>

[09:38] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Probably a low-use case, not worth the effort</nowiki>

[09:38] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:38] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I wouldn't mind being able to export my scripts directly from inventory... Opening them one by one might turn out to be a real PITA</nowiki>

[09:38] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: You want a SaveAs type button?</nowiki>

[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Have you talked to the Firestone/Phoenix team about this?</nowiki>

[09:39] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I'd like that...</nowiki>

[09:39] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Kaluura, in that case try Radegast viewer</nowiki>

[09:39] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Oz is recruiting patches from TPVs, maybe bring it to his attention</nowiki>

[09:40] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Heyas.</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: heya</nowiki>

[09:40] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Too many TPVs! No enough time///</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: No time!</nowiki>

[09:40] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Hey, can I ask some questions about the underlying list implementation in mono?</nowiki>

[09:40] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yes, ask</nowiki>

[09:41] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yay! A script topic! heehehe</nowiki>

[09:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Speaking of whch is there a different external LSL editor than Alphon's</nowiki>

[09:41] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: yes, but I'd not bet against the answer being "it's slow, clunky and a mystery"</nowiki>

[09:41] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Previously, I was under the impression that lists are immutable, both from LSL's perspective and from the VM's perspective.</nowiki>

[09:42] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Kalista, sevetal external editors. Any reason you want one other than LSLEdiotr?</nowiki>

[09:42] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Thus, every time you changed the list, the whole thing was discarded and a new one was made.</nowiki>

[09:42] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Not very far from the truth...</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Oh hey Argent. Mono has had optimizations in that regard for a long time to help address some performance and memory size issues it has.</nowiki>

[09:42] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: I was running the memory profiler, however, and it seems that either this is no longer the case, or the script memory profiler doesn't track data that's sitting around, waiting for GC.</nowiki>

[09:43] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Sweet.</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The profiler only tracks memory assigned to the script, but this is the same as what we track for triggering 'stack-heap collision' errors.</nowiki>

[09:43] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: What kind of optimizations are we talking about here? I'd like some perspective on how much the various list functions currently cost.</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So it is also true that there could be memory waiting for GC that isn't counted by your script.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It varies by function call.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Many of the list functions were re-implented entirely in C#/mono to handle memory better than if we had to convert to the c++ type and deal with it then pass the result back.</nowiki>

[09:45] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: I ended up with almost no extra memory usage when constructing a list of random integers via appending, but putting them at the start left me with a much larger used memory that went back down a few seconds later.</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Also to be higher performance.</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: appending to the end will be faster and more memory efficient.</nowiki>

[09:45] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Yaay.</nowiki>

[09:46] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: So, when I call llListReplaceList on the mid-section of a list, how much data am I causing to be discarded?</nowiki>

[09:47] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: (or llDeleteSubList, etc)</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Technically we must duplicate the list since you can use a different src list than you are assigning to</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: list new_foo = llListReplaceList(old_foo,replace,index); // would be bad to change old_foo</nowiki>

[09:48] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Hm.</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: operators like += get to be special.</nowiki>

[09:49] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: My colleague has been worried about using large lists too heavily, out of concerns about generating mounds of garbage data for the GC.</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I would not worry about the GC in general.</nowiki>

[09:50] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: I heard once upon a time that the backend was a linked list. Is that true?</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It will do what it will do, and won't usually count against your script.</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The lists are ArrayList objects in mono, or singly linked lists in LSO - however any time the list has to pass into a C++ function (one that hasn't been converted to be entirely in mono or one that can't be like llSetPrimitiveParams) it gets converted.</nowiki>

[09:52] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Ah, very interesting. OK, that would make appending far more efficient.</nowiki>

[09:52] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: And, most of the ll*List functions still duplicate the list?</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: They must, yes.</nowiki>

[09:53] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: aw~</nowiki>

[09:53] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: And, I guess there's no way for me to tell them not to. :p</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Nope.</nowiki>

[09:54] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Some of this is because we were looking at memory usage, related to a system we intend to rebuild to replace one in a current product.</nowiki>

[09:55] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: All the talk about lists make me dream of more script mem.... When we get it? and dont say "after we get script limits". Griefers already dont have limit and still they raraly use mem to grief, they use phys cubes from 2005. The rest of us would end up using less total mem and scripts if we could get more mem. It is super annoying to ping pong data between scripts just to get access to lil more mem.</nowiki>

[09:55] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: It's a weapons targetting manager. It has various weapons banks, and each of them can have different targets in them, although they may be the same targets as others.</nowiki>

[09:56] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: We were thinking of giving each target key an integer id in a parallel list, then putting those in the list of banks.</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Actually Liisa you are incorrect in one thing. Griefers *are* using memory to grief, in a recent new method of attack.</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: (that is a modified version of a previous method we blocked)</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Agent: I think it will take some experimenting on your end to figure out which algorithms are the most efficient for what you need to accomplish.</nowiki>

[09:57] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: We realized this could also be used for other data, including nested lists, if we included another parallel list of integers - starting indices.</nowiki>

[09:57] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ok ok, maybe couple griefers actually learn new tricks, but still. They will fool around no matter what limits we have, is it really worth lagging the rest of the grid with stupid ping pong mess to get lil more mem</nowiki>

[09:58] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: But, if that means discarding or duplicating lots of lists, that could be troublesome for the sim. :p</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: We can't just give a blanket amount of more ram, the hardware won't support it.</nowiki>

[09:59] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Is that list optimization in mono something the underlying VM is doing?</nowiki>

[09:59] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Hi tansiel</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: What we can give is a better way to decide where script memory will be used by the content creators and land owners.</nowiki>

[10:00] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: so, now hardware can handle 10000 scripts, but cant handle one script with qarter megabyte of mem</nowiki>

[10:01] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: I think he means it can't handle 10,000 scripts with a quarter megabyte of memory. :p</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What agent says.</nowiki>

[10:01] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Without the limiter system in place, there's nothing to prevent just requesting tons of memory for all your scripts.</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yeh 10K * 256K is still a lot of memory</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: only what, 2.6g?</nowiki>

[10:02] tansie1234567<nowiki>: yes its still a lot</nowiki>

[10:02] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, do you have any feelings on how much help a sim gets from shared bycode?</nowiki>

[10:02] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: only asshats try to use 10000 scripts anyway, and they will do what ever to get attention, i dont think it is worth ruining the fun for everyone else</nowiki>

[10:02] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: *bytecode</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Jonathan - probably not as much as you expect.</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: ^ 4(7) regions per machine</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: the bytecode is usually a realtively small portion of the memory.</nowiki>

[10:03] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Oh?</nowiki>

[10:03] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: It seems like many of my scripts are using more than half their memory for bytecode.</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay, it will vary by script, and no I don't have a great feeling on how much it is helping.</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: BUT!</nowiki>

[10:04] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: We've been attempting to consolidate them, however, so we should be able to start lowering memory requirements in the "client" scripts throughout our starships.</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The hour is up! (4 minutes ago)</nowiki>

[10:04] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: also, LL makes 500million dollars of pure profit every year, i dont mind if LL buy better hardware</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And I need to run to another meeting. :) Thanks everyone for coming.</nowiki>

[10:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: See you Kelly & Mumbles.</nowiki>

[10:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah I was wondering if you noticed that</nowiki>

[10:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx Kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[10:04] Agent Tairov<nowiki>: Thanks for answering my list question. Should be helpful.</nowiki>

[10:04] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: by folks!</nowiki>

[10:04] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: thanks everybody</nowiki>

[10:05] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Thank you Kellly and Mumbles</nowiki>

[10:05] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: bye Kelly, tc</nowiki>

[10:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: I have doubts about your numbers. ;) Take care everyonne.</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 12 05

2012-01-10T17:58:16Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Leonel Iceghost |- |Liisa Runo |- |Rehman Polanski</font…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Rehman Polanski
|-
|Vincent Nacon
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[08:59] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Hi, Kelly</nowiki>

[09:00] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[09:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Morning...</nowiki>

[09:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly.</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hope everyone had a good weekend</nowiki>

[09:01] Rehman Polanski<nowiki>: oooops</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: News first.</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Last week we had some issues on the server side. We promoted LeTigre then rolled it back, and merged what was on LeTigre with what was going to go on LeTigre.</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: New LeTigre has llTransferLindenDollars and llGetParcelMusicURL</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But also has a bug with the timer event on object rez.</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That bug is fixed and tested internally so will go out to LeTigre this week.</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Pity... I was hoping the temp rezzers would become broken gridwide...</nowiki>

[09:05] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: why?</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:05] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: cause temp r3ezzers are evil and LL fail to ban them with policy</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Temp rezzers as they are scripted right now are murdering the sims...</nowiki>

[09:06] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I don't know I made one of those and it doesn't seem to lag anything</nowiki>

[09:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: or just bad scripters</nowiki>

[09:06] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: If they are throttled what would break?</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If anyone notices strange LSL behavior please don't hesitate to report it in SVC or SCR. We do triage those lists and investigate them pretty quickly.</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Think what it represent for the sim to re-rez the prims and the scripts every minute... Hmmm...</nowiki>

[09:06] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it is one script</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: say goodbye to happy-trigger gun folks?</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If the items being rezzed are unscripted the load is significantly lower than if they are scripted. But still not optimal.</nowiki>

[09:07] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Very sub-optimal...</nowiki>

[09:07] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: just one item temp rezzed is not causing very visible lag, but some people temp rez 1000 objects, and some even make those horrible temp rezzers that use chat to function</nowiki>

[09:08] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: even 1000 prims doesn't lag anything in a homestead</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: using chat to function, on an otherwise quiet channel, isn't that bad of a thing.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Although they could update to llRegionSayTo</nowiki>

[09:08] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: it is when you need 0 chat messages to get the same behavior and functionality</nowiki>

[09:09] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Any way, LL should ban them just because they are used to stay over quota.</nowiki>

[09:09] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Why should we pay a full tier when we can temp rez half of a sim?</nowiki>

[09:09] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you can't</nowiki>

[09:09] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: there is a limit</nowiki>

[09:10] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: the limit does seem absurdly generous, though, for any practical purpose.</nowiki>

[09:10] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: old scripters that already left SL + clueless residents that use their scripts = LL's problems.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Indeed there is still a limit on temp objects. It is a % bonus</nowiki>

[09:10] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea, there is a limit, 1000 temp prims on a parcel, so with lil parcel cutting, you can put 10000 prims to 400m2 area</nowiki>

[09:10] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Very generous... And I was exaggerating when I said "half sim". I don't know the exact numbers. I just hate temp rezzers...</nowiki>

[09:11] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Liisa, there are two limits</nowiki>

[09:11] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: one is 1000 prims for a big parcel</nowiki>

[09:11] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and there is onother which is a % of the land</nowiki>

[09:11] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: what ever the parcel size, it never go under 1000</nowiki>

[09:11] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so if you put a very small parcel you won't get many prims</nowiki>

[09:11] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: you do, tested</nowiki>

[09:12] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I tested it last year</nowiki>

[09:12] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

<nowiki> Kelly Linden's BLING Land: (2032 m2)</nowiki>

<nowiki> Total prims: 1097 - Used: 110 - Free: 987</nowiki>

<nowiki> Normal prims: 465 - Used: 110 - Free: 355</nowiki>

<nowiki> Used by owner: 85</nowiki>

<nowiki> Used by group: 0</nowiki>

<nowiki> Used by others: 1</nowiki>

<nowiki> Selected or salt on: 24</nowiki>

<nowiki> Extra prims: 632 - Used: 0 - Free: 632</nowiki>

[09:13] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: guess i need to test again, anyway, not the best topic for this OH, Kelly cant change the policy</nowiki>

[09:13] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: this parcel allows 632</nowiki>

[09:13] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: extra prims</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Looks like the formula is 400 + 50% normal prims up to 1000</nowiki>

[09:14] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: that sounds familiar</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Which matches what Leonel's object reports.</nowiki>

[09:15] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: maybe that 400 is the too generous part</nowiki>

[09:16] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yup</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Possibly. There is also a region wide limit of 2000</nowiki>

[09:16] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: that sounds new</nowiki>

[09:16] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that's new to me too</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So temp + regular can only go to 17000</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: on a full region</nowiki>

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Never hear of a simwide limit...</nowiki>

[09:16] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: So too many temp rezzers in the same region would partially disable each other</nowiki>

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: heard*</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah jonathan.</nowiki>

[09:17] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Good to know... Now, I have a new plan... Fill my sim with temp rezzer to kill the one of the neighbors.... Muhahaha</nowiki>

[09:17] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: hahahahah</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Every rez checks parcel limits then the region limit. The region limit gets a 2k bonus on this check if the rez is temp.</nowiki>

[09:17] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea, i will totally use that to fuckup the neighbors temp shit</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: hah</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Don't tell me about that kind of thing. :(</nowiki>

[09:18] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: why?</nowiki>

[09:18] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: ah, so actually, can rez more as long as there are spare non-temp prims available too</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sshhh, charlar is here.</nowiki>

[09:18] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: so their house or whatnot will stat to fliker in and out?</nowiki>

[09:18] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: you see the server code, you know very well how big drain the temp rezzing cause</nowiki>

[09:18] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: what is going on here!?</nowiki>

[09:19] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: hiya charlar</nowiki>

[09:19] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Char, if I punch you, do I get wood?</nowiki>

[09:19] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: not sure how to answer that.</nowiki>

[09:19] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[09:19] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: wait, the Adult user group is *next* hour :p</nowiki>

[09:19] Mumbles (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: I was here before, just had to jump away for a sec.</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah it isn't a limit on temp specifically at 2000. It is that a full region can have 17k temp+normal, a homestead could have 5.7k temp+normal. (if I did my math right)</nowiki>

[09:19] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: sorry, played too much Minecraft</nowiki>

[09:20] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: you mean mindcrack?</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yes... mindcraft</nowiki>

[09:20] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: :D</nowiki>

[09:20] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: also, people who use temp rezzing are cheating money from LL, that is away from your x-mas bonus, you should hate temp rezzers as much as we do who see them cut out 10% of the juice on our sims</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: minecrack</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: mindcrack *</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: @RYT@%</nowiki>

[09:21] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So that is all the 'news' I've had, though we've strayed from news a bit already.</nowiki>

[09:21] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: how are they cheating again, Lisa?</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I did have an interesting question to discuss though.</nowiki>

[09:21] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ask away</nowiki>

[09:21] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: cheating = getting something for free that you are suppesed to pay for</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: A while ago I added some code, disabled now, to do dynamic timeslicing for scripts.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Currently scripts get a max timeslice of 150us, or 1 event.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: (they won't process more than 1 event in a given time slice)</nowiki>

[09:22] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I don't see how it's cheating when it's already given to begin with.... anywho</nowiki>

[09:22] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Does a script waiting for, say, a touch, take up any time?</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It takes up a very, very small amount Jonathan. Generally less than 1ms.</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: er</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 1us</nowiki>

[09:23] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: is that 0.0001 or 0.0000001?</nowiki>

[09:24] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: given? what you mean given? given like the possibility to dump toxic waste to a lake in RL? possible but not very nice</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 0.001 is 1 ms, 0.000001 is 1us</nowiki>

[09:24] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: rightly so, Liisa</nowiki>

[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Kelly, focus!</nowiki>

[09:24] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: on what?</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So, there is a bit of a cliff when you get past the number of scripts you can run in a single sim frame.</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is when script performance starts to drop.</nowiki>

[09:25] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: anything below a ms time... doesn't simply exist to me</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What dynamic timeslicing does is make that 150us more flexible to attempt to get all the scripts into a single timeslice.</nowiki>

[09:26] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you mean it goes down?</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It also potentially stretches the other way to give scripts in regions with fewer scripts more time per slice</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes.</nowiki>

[09:26] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, I had this idea a while ago about scripts being able to set their priority. Ones you know don't have to act quickly could be marked and so give more resouces to ones that need to act faster</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The dynamic timeslices I'm talking about do not have a priority consideration.</nowiki>

[09:27] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: This discussion just triggered that memory, carry on :)</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Who is losing in this battle? If more time is given to the script... What get slower instead?</nowiki>

[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: scripts*</nowiki>

[09:28] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: spare time get slower</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: less time is given to busy sims</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: spare time gets lower.</nowiki>

[09:28] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: when you need more time than is available in a frame you lose</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: but it sounds well to me, you don't have the time anyway for them all at the end</nowiki>

[09:30] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Why is the code deactivated if it's so interesting... on the surface?</nowiki>

[09:30] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: seems there should be some overhead in switching between scripts, so if more scripts get processing in a frame, it might slightly reduce total time productively processing scripts.</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The dynamic ones would adjust to the available time, with some histeresis. So if you had slow frames then scripts would adjust to smaller slices and if the sim became more idle they would get more time.</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Qie: That is true.</nowiki>

[09:31] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: currently if your scripts takes 151us, does it run only one event in 2 frames, or it starts with another event?</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: It needs significant testing.</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If it takes 151us to run it will do 150us one frame then 1us the next.</nowiki>

[09:33] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and doesn't run any other event with those 149 left?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: correct - the next script will get time.</nowiki>

[09:34] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: With slicing how would the behavior be different (assuming TD is constant)?</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: However changing it so that scripts can run as many events as they want in a frame would have *drastic* effects on some content.</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: With the static slicing for example you could have a region with 5k scripts and no spare time - it is actually running 4k scripts a frame so not every script gets run every frame.</nowiki>

[09:35] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: EVents being queued, it shouldn't change much for a script.... Except that things may go much faster.</nowiki>

[09:35] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: this reminds me.. lately i have seen this one disposable griefer do something to cause sim to go to 0.1TD and 0.1FPS, the script time jumps to 200.0ms and it stays like this. i wonder if some linden would like to investigate?</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: With the dynamic timeslicing the max slice for each script would drop to maybe 110us to allow all scripts to run at least some in the same frame.</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: Any script that uses llSleep(0.0001) to skip to the next frame may change behavior, right?</nowiki>

[09:37] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Do the scripts that don't get time in the current system get moved to the top of the to-run list for the next frame, or is it catch-as-catch-can every frame?</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: I'd need a lot of details to come up with a repro. He may be adding a slew of mono scripts to objects for example.</nowiki>

[09:37] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so scripts wouldn't lose anything in slow sims, but would gain in fast sims</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Jonathan: we continue where we left off from the end of the previous frame</nowiki>

[09:38] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: so no help if i just give time and location and object owner so LL can look at the logs?</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: doh</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: sorry, that doh was for the wrong chat</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If it was recent I may be able to get something from the logs.</nowiki>

[09:39] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: it happens every day, ill just get the time and stuff next time it happens and ill send them to you</nowiki>

[09:39] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: if you are intrested</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: sure</nowiki>

[09:40] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: to me it seems quite unnatural that script tim can go that high, and override phys time</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah, it is unnatural.</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It would take a lot of doing something that makes the sim slow, like rezzing.</nowiki>

[09:40] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: scripts always override physics</nowiki>

[09:40] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I know you say otherwise, but..</nowiki>

[09:40] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I thought it was the other way</nowiki>

[09:40] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: physics have priority over scripts</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Actually they don't.</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you say that, but you put 10k scripts and you cannot run</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that is, you cannot move well when running</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: maybe it overrides comunications with the client stuff, and I see lag.. but it is the same effect</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I've done tests with >10k non-physics involving scripts without issues. If the scripts are doing things that involve physics it is an entirely different story</nowiki>

[09:42] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Leonel, maybe your viewer is being swamped with object updates of some kind</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If they are rezzing or changing physics shape (ie child prims changing relative position) then we are getting into physics and sim performance.</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Object update floods could also be an issue.</nowiki>

[09:42] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I'll try to make controlled tests, thanks for the tip</nowiki>

[09:43] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: floods like temp rezzing :P</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The biggest performance issue with scripts is that most meaningful scripts interact with the sim, the physics system or viewers.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you they are just sitting there calculating the nth digit of pi, you should be able to have as many of them as you want without effecting the performance of the rest of the sim. Unless you push the memory into swap or something.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you push the memory into swap all bets are off.</nowiki>

[09:44] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I think they are houses and chairs..</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: but I'll make my own tests</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay 15 minutes left - any pressing issues we haven't discussed?</nowiki>

[09:46] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: anything from Falcon?</nowiki>

[09:46] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: our xmas gift, more script mem, and lists shared between several scripts</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't have anything from falcon.</nowiki>

[09:46] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: alright</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Liisa: not this xmas.</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Jonathan idea was nice</nowiki>

[09:46] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: hehehe</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I would like to set some scripts to use less priority</nowiki>

[09:47] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: other than changing llMinEventDelay</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The easiest way to do that is manually to llSleep and use llMinEventDelay</nowiki>

[09:47] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Me too... A script which is waiting for a touch doesn't need to run every frame...</nowiki>

[09:48] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: the problem with llMinEventDelay is that it throws away nice user interation</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All we do if it is waiting for a touch is check if any touches have happened. We don't actually load or 'run' the script.</nowiki>

[09:48] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: EVen that is too much...</nowiki>

[09:48] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: or use start_touch instead of plain touch</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We don't run the script when the touch happens, we add a pending event. If there are no pending events we don't 'run' the script.</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Honestly you really can't get much lower load than that.</nowiki>

[09:49] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you do with control event</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah and that causes lots of problems actually</nowiki>

[09:49] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: priorities sure would be usefull, for example with scripts that need to run on a tight timer, but that are not really that important, would be cool to be able to put those to lower priority</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But is too ingrained to change at this point.</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What would you expect the behavior of a low priority script to be?</nowiki>

[09:50] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: give less us in your dinamic project</nowiki>

[09:50] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: snoozing?</nowiki>

[09:50] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: for example, get run only once in the time when normal priority script get run 4 times</nowiki>

[09:50] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: I would expect a low priority script to defer to higher priority ones, except they would get a minimum amount of time so they are not stalled out</nowiki>

[09:51] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: but when spare time, get run as fast as others</nowiki>

[09:51] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: only in slow sims, that is</nowiki>

[09:51] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so you have all houses and chairs with low priority at least</nowiki>

[09:53] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: of course I already can see how any beginner will use high priority for everything, and they are probably who lag the sims.. but at least the tool exist</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Should any script be able to set high/low priority? Should any scripts automatically get a higher or lower priority based on some factor like owner?</nowiki>

[09:54] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: or on how much time they've been consuming? Less time == higher priority</nowiki>

[09:54] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Owner gets higher prority on their land... That makes sense.</nowiki>

[09:54] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: I would let a script lower it's priority. If it was just waiting for a brief event the scheduler could bump the priority up, but as the script started to need more resources it would drop back to its base priority</nowiki>

[09:54] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kallista I don't agree</nowiki>

[09:55] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: i can see stuff rezzed with the land group tag being able to run in high priority, and nothing else...</nowiki>

[09:55] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Phoenix, you need some huds</nowiki>

[09:55] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: would help minimize accidental or intentional side effects of a higher priority</nowiki>

[09:55] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: why not.. Scripts that use low cpu time should hve hight priority</nowiki>

[09:56] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: i have huds</nowiki>

[09:56] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: My suggestion was to only lower your priority from a base level, that way you are not going to be subject to griefers, hogs, etc</nowiki>

[09:56] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Well written script should get better access.</nowiki>

[09:56] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: maybe give script its score like prim with its PE?</nowiki>

[09:56] Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)<nowiki>: how's going to determan how well a script is written?</nowiki>

[09:56] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Scripts not "doing" very much could get a brief priority boost so are serviced faster</nowiki>

[09:56] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Jonathan, for that they have to priority for the load script threads, not script themselves</nowiki>

[09:57] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: There would be a benifit for good code</nowiki>

[09:57] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not with limit but as ranking</nowiki>

[09:58] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: personally i would just take ability to manually lower the priority, simple and effective in good hands, noobs would not be affected, they would still set everything to normal priority</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: maybe but best let Sim(or parcel?) owners set the priority?</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: and or let them set priority based on scripts's ranking score?</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it sounds fair Liisa, and with the functions made they can tweak and add conditions in the future</nowiki>

[10:00] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: the ranking will not be the truth, it will be a lie just like ARC is</nowiki>

[10:00] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: well of course, I do mean a well thought out ranking system</nowiki>

[10:00] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[10:00] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: but yea, sure we could have totally separate ability for parcel owners to have their own script on high priority, but i think that is different from any script set to lower priority, different purposes</nowiki>

[10:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: based on logical wise instead of how often</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, all very interesting thoughts. Anyone interested in writing up a jira proposal?</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[10:01] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: I don't think it is a good idea to give parcel owners a preference, it could be too easily abused</nowiki>

[10:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not really, I should be working on my car and Avatar 2.0 wiki</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Time is up and I have another meeting I need to get to. Thanks for coming everyone.</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: See you next week.</nowiki>

[10:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: np</nowiki>

[10:01] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: thanks Kellz</nowiki>

[10:01] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: take care Kelly</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: thank kelly</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 11 28

2012-01-10T17:58:04Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Ardy Lay |- |flexi campfire |- |Kopilo Hallard |-…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Ardy Lay
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Kopilo Hallard
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Vincent Nacon
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly.</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hello</nowiki>

[09:01] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: hey</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning.</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sorry about missing last week</nowiki>

[09:01] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Good morning</nowiki>

[09:02] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: I was crushed... :(</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :(</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: sorry, was in the wrong place</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: My daughter decided to be allergic to her penecillin that morning. :-/ Anyway, all better now.</nowiki>

[09:03] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Eep.</nowiki>

[09:03] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Wow... glad she is ok</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm in a bit late this morning sorry. Trying to gather what news I have.</nowiki>

[09:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Monday after a holiday... it is probably a bit hectic</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think we have a new 'drtsim' 116, which is 111++, for server maintenance probably going to RC this week</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It has a lot of stuff in it actually</nowiki>

[09:05] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: omg, Charlie isn't a tree.</nowiki>

[09:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: huh.... not a tree anymore, eh?</nowiki>

[09:06] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: oh, was doing some things that needed legs</nowiki>

[09:06] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: and arms</nowiki>

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Jonathan took over his job as one.</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So 116 has: llTransferLindenDollars, llGetParcelMusicURL</nowiki>

[09:06] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah... now I can't tease a tree</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-230</nowiki>

[09:06] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-230

<nowiki>[#SCR-230] llSetPhysicsMaterial() fails if you don't have modify perms</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-147</nowiki>

[09:06] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-147

<nowiki>[#SCR-147] Timer event fails to trigger following heavy amounts of linked messages</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-225 (I think)</nowiki>

[09:06] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-225

<nowiki>[#SCR-225] ERROR: Failed to set physics shape type</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SVC-7422</nowiki>

[09:07] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7422

<nowiki>[#SVC-7422] llSetLinkMedia do nothing</nowiki>

[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: I always want to please the residents...</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SVC-7413</nowiki>

[09:07] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7413

<nowiki>[#SVC-7413] Bug in Control Event</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And a whole bunch of server crash and memory leak fixes</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: it's just not the same anymore</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:07] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: And thar be tree again.</nowiki>

[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Was the llSetMemoryMemory bug that causes the viewer and scripts to read an avatar's total memory incorrectly not fixed?</nowiki>

[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I'm still seeing it on the stable branch.</nowiki>

[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: SetMemoryLimit*</nowiki>

[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I'm not THAT tired, jebus.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think that was thought fixed a while ago. If you are still seeing it could you file a new jira?</nowiki>

[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Sure.</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks</nowiki>

[09:09] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Heh, reproed by resetting my tail script.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think that is all the news I have.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Table is open for other topics.</nowiki>

[09:11] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: llGetGender :P</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: sounds.... sounds! ssssssssouund!</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: was wondering if it's ever possible to improve sounds LSL function options?</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: or maybe like FMOD?</nowiki>

[09:12] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: What do you want improved?</nowiki>

[09:12] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I'm not really the best person to ask but I know there's alot of people wanted to see better sound functions</nowiki>

[09:12] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: stuff like blend, fade, pitch change, etc etc</nowiki>

[09:13] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: or FMOD</nowiki>

[09:13] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I actually have a JIRA somewhere for parcel-based settings such as echo and reverb.</nowiki>

[09:13] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Viewer uses FMOD on Windows and OS X, OpenAL on Linux. :p</nowiki>

[09:13] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: FYI, Storm-591 is in the pipline</nowiki>

[09:13] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-591

<nowiki>[#STORM-591] As a music fan, I want audio to fade in gently so my immersion is increased</nowiki>

[09:14] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Echo and reverb would require some low-level coding to work with fmod and openal</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm not really an expert on sound.</nowiki>

[09:15] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Well, FMOD already supports those functions.</nowiki>

[09:15] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: OpenAL I think via extensions.</nowiki>

[09:15] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Right now the viewer plays what you send it, with volume adjusted for distance</nowiki>

[09:16] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I was thinking more like upload FPD files</nowiki>

[09:17] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: audio to fade in, uhh wouldn't that just come down to the original sound files?</nowiki>

[09:17] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: it's a FMOD Designer saved file, I know... but I meant as one whole package</nowiki>

[09:17] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: storm-591 is about music streams</nowiki>

[09:17] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: a scripted sound file</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: In general adding new types of assets to upload is tricky, and making sure scripts, the server and viewers all know how to deal with them is also tricky</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: aye</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: also something like llPlaySoundAt()</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you have some more solid ideas it would be good to get them into a SCR feature request jira to gather thoughts.</nowiki>

[09:19] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: do we have the ability to request parcle information yet? :p</nowiki>

[09:19] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: instead of starting from beginning... could start playing from a given timeline in MS</nowiki>

[09:19] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ms*</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kopilo: What parcel information do you want?</nowiki>

[09:19] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: media stream</nowiki>

[09:19] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: You can get reverb now by playing the same sound in several locations at the same time. Each source starts playing at a slightly different starting time, so you get some kind of effet</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I've definitely seen jiras for ways to synch sounds.</nowiki>

[09:20] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Kelly: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7490

[09:20] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#SVC-7490] llSetMemoryLimit causing viewer and scripts to read avatar memory total incorrectly</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks Koli</nowiki>

[09:20] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: :D</nowiki>

[09:20] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Kelly, to synch sounds I think you'd need 1 "play" packet from the server that points to multiple sound sources</nowiki>

[09:21] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: if you do llPlaySoundAt it would be nice to play a sound at one side for a hud (only to the owner)</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Koli: That is definitely a different repro than the other bug.</nowiki>

[09:21] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Ah.</nowiki>

[09:22] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: llPlaySoundAt would help me with engine sound to play them based on RPM's range</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right. Last call for topics before I bring up triage.</nowiki>

[09:25] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah.... can't play half way of a wave file to switch RPM</nowiki>

[09:26] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: hmm that's all I got</nowiki>

[09:26] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-239<nowiki> ?</nowiki>

[09:26] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#SCR-239] llGiveInventory() with feedback</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Really, really hard.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Coming soon...</nowiki>

[09:27] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-242<nowiki> ?</nowiki>

[09:27] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#SCR-242] llResetOtherScript has no effect on a script stopped with llSetScriptState</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So, it used to be that the money one was hard, then we added new technology - a new backend we called L$ API - that made it pretty easy.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: that's not a feature though</nowiki>

[09:27] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: ahhh</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The inventory transaction is in a similar place - right now it is really really hard and will take new back end technology being in place to be made possible.</nowiki>

[09:28] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: but getting feedback about items being recieved is difficult?</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kopilo: With the current system, yes.</nowiki>

[09:28] Jonathan (jonathan.yap)<nowiki>: Part of the issue with scr-239 is that declined inventory no longer goes into the Trash folder</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Because the actual transfer doesn't occur until the person is logged in to accept or decline it.</nowiki>

[09:28] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: how about running a query post "payment"?</nowiki>

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly, there is a new api for those folders of marketplace right?</nowiki>

[09:29] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: ahh</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: That is the kind of thing that will help. Once that system is fully in place we will have to take a look at how it can be integrated with LSL. It is likely to behave differently than current llGiveInventory* functions</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Probably mostly in good ways.</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:30] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: nice</nowiki>

[09:30] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I made a tweak for SCR-242 semi recently. I think the last maint-server project.</nowiki>

[09:31] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: :D</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It should work for some cases of crashed scripts now.</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But not all, and not for manually disabled scripts.</nowiki>

[09:32] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: awesome</nowiki>

[09:32] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: probably best if it is unable to restart manually stopped scripts</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: oh wait</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I was thinking of the wrong jira</nowiki>

[09:33] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: ahhjh</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm.</nowiki>

[09:35] walter789<nowiki>: oi</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It does sound like a bug.</nowiki>

[09:35] walter789<nowiki>: oiiiiii</nowiki>

[09:35] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: it is</nowiki>

[09:35] walter789<nowiki>: no inglÃªs</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: k I acknowledged it.</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But it isn't gonna make it onto a priority backlog for a while.</nowiki>

[09:36] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So, I'm gonna close SVC-5040</nowiki>

[09:37] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5040

<nowiki>[#SVC-5040] Script performance dropped on regions deployed on class 7 hardware since rolling restart (12 nov 2009)</nowiki>

[09:38] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Old stuff...</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm pretty sure script performance is better than it has ever been now. though it is possible class 5s still outperfrom class 7s for script performance.</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thought I'd bring it up one last time to hear if there were any loud objections before I closed it. :)</nowiki>

[09:39] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:39] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: the LAG! it's so bad!</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: naa close it</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Done! Glad to have that one cleared off my assigned list.</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: okay, 19 minutes left. Guess we can get a couple triage issues: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?requestId=14052<nowiki>&mode=hide</nowiki>

[09:42] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I'm sure that one was tricky</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Skip the first 3 as usual.</nowiki>

[09:42] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: RayCast?</nowiki>

[09:42] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: err CastRay</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-199 . Yes cast ray</nowiki>

[09:43] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-199

<nowiki>[#SCR-199] Reduction/removal of llCastRay limitations</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That one is still falcon's, I'm gonna pop it off this list.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-79</nowiki>

[09:44] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-79

<nowiki>[#SCR-79] llMatchGroup() - Checks if an object or agent is active in a specified group.</nowiki>

[09:47] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Could be useful... Or else if OBJECT_GROUP could work on avatar, we could write the needed function in LSL</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: OBJECT_GROUP doesn't work for avatars because that isn't information that is generally available.</nowiki>

[09:48] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I would prefer a way to know if they _have_ the group, not just actived.. I think activating groups for doing things is old fashoned</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm not really sure that requiring the script to know the UUID first is that different though.</nowiki>

[09:48] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The group people are currently on isn't a private info... It's visible.</nowiki>

[09:48] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Me too... Knowing if somebody is in a group is what is really useful...</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is much more invasive.</nowiki>

[09:49] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you can do it by opening the group...</nowiki>

[09:49] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and searching the list of members</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you have access to the member list</nowiki>

[09:50] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: the script requesting should have the group</nowiki>

[09:50] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: If the check is limited to the group of the object, it's no big deal to me... Either the ppl are in the group or not. They don't need to hide to the group they belong... that they belong...</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So that would be llInSameGroup(key target) ? Don't allow the object to specify the group?</nowiki>

[09:51] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That would be a big step forward!</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: These feature suggestions are kinda muddled. I don't see an existing one for that suggestion, or am I missing it?</nowiki>

[09:52] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I can't even understand it yet</nowiki>

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: LL should get rid of actived groups... for everything! having to change the group to build in a land that is ours has no much sense</nowiki>

[09:53] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Pretty much, all scripters want the same thing: Not to have to tell to ppl that they must specifically activate a group to be able to use a group-only object.</nowiki>

[09:53] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: even that I can understand</nowiki>

[09:53] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I meant I don't understand why it haven't been like that</nowiki>

[09:53] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: maybe instead of creating a new function, you could modify the existing one</nowiki>

[09:54] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: llSameGroup()</nowiki>

[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: My client overrides that. I always rez in the group of the land... If I'm in it, of course.</nowiki>

[09:54] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kaluura, it doesn't work in all lands, for some reason</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is a nice feature Kaluura</nowiki>

[09:54] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: SOme times we want our items rezzed to be subjected to auto-return.</nowiki>

[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Changing the group of the object some times would be a lesser burden...</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Would content break if llSameGroup changed to check all groups and not active group? Are there cases where you really *do* care that the group is active specifically?</nowiki>

[09:55] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you can change the group of the object to none, and make copies Ardy</nowiki>

[09:56] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I don't think so Kelly, the only thing that changes is the title</nowiki>

[09:56] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Our land has been in use by us for longer than 8 years. We do not like having temporary playthings fill it up because they got away before would could untag them.</nowiki>

[09:57] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I doubt there would be much of a breakage, Kelly</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 8 years is quite a run.</nowiki>

[09:57] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Yup</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Could someone write up that proposal then - for llSameGroup to change behavior? We'd need to gather quite a bit of feedback to make sure we aren't missing an important use case.</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 2 minute warning. Any parting shots?</nowiki>

[09:58] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: for the last 5 years, I don't even recall anything that would justifty in being active group at all</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Me neither... Being in a group is what really matters.</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: having it 'see' all the users groups would make things much easier</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Avoiding all kinds of ugly hacks</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Will the ugly hacks start to break? It seems like anything with ugly hacks would just start working on the shorter path that would have worked if they had the group active now.</nowiki>

[10:01] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Perhaps you want a scripted item to warn someone that they have the land ownership group active when entering a private sandbox area. "Danger! The junk you are about to rez MAY require manual cleanup!" :-)</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I would think that the ugly hacks would most likley be bupassed.</nowiki>

[10:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: heheeheh</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay! Thanks all for coming out this week.</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: See you next week.</nowiki>

[10:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: np, take care</nowiki>

[10:03] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: thank you Kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: See you kelly.</nowiki>

[10:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Perhaps next week I'll be on time...</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 11 14

2012-01-10T17:57:45Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Ardy Lay |Fancy Detector |- |flexi campfire |<fon…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Ardy Lay
|Fancy Detector
|-
|flexi campfire
|Ima Mechanique
|-
|Kopilo Hallard
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Motor Loon
|Susie Chaffe
|-
|TheBlack Box
|Vincent Nacon
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:01] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Yo Kelly man</nowiki>

[09:01] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: greetings kelly</nowiki>

[09:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: May I ask "why" as well?</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hello, hello...</nowiki>

[09:02] Nimh (nimh20.vandeverre)<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7251?

[09:02] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#SVC-7251] Remove the automatic logout of agents that are Away too long</nowiki>

[09:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Why are you upset about not getting force-logged-out</nowiki>

[09:02] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: MAny people didn't like it, so it was removed.</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: There is setting for that in all the viewers that I know...</nowiki>

[09:02] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I pay nothing.</nowiki>

[09:02] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Most viewers can disable that anyway Nimh</nowiki>

[09:03] Motor Loon<nowiki>: whats the reason for keeping it?</nowiki>

[09:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: And it's off-topic for this UG...</nowiki>

[09:03] Nimh (nimh20.vandeverre)<nowiki>: Now you turn voice off</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We don't keep a list of every person that requests a feature</nowiki>

[09:03] Nimh (nimh20.vandeverre)<nowiki>: jeez</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This is a chat-only UG</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And the focus is scripting.</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There is a strong desire *by many* to be able to be in world AND be AFK. I can understand the desire to get auto logged off and if you feel strongly about it (it appears you do) then please file a jira in the SVC project.</nowiki>

[09:04] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Theoretically you could modify a viewer so it does log you off for being idle too long. It's not that you're no longer "allowed" to auto log off, you're no longer "forced" to auto log off</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning everyone. :)</nowiki>

[09:04] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Afternoon!</nowiki>

[09:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Hi</nowiki>

[09:05] Nimh (nimh20.vandeverre)<nowiki>: Ok so now that they have disabled it server side--how would you modify the viewer to override that?</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't know how much news I am going to have. I've been working from home to take care of a sick family pretty much the entire last week.</nowiki>

[09:05] Motor Loon<nowiki>: viewer can close the connection anytime Nimh</nowiki>

[09:05] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: :(</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: ...Even commit suicide...</nowiki>

[09:05] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Awww</nowiki>

[09:05] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Guess its cold and flu season and whatnot</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah. just a cold but a long lasting one.</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: To stay in SL and avoid people prevents the cold and flu...</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:06] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Airborn and Zicam...</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The server maintenance project on LeTigre (I think) is not getting promoted this week due to a bug with objects (non-vehicle) crossing region borders.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The llTransferLindenDollars and transaction_result are on a few regions on aditi now.</nowiki>

[09:08] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Wunderbar</nowiki>

[09:08] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Thanx for doing that one</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I haven't heard any complaints, but I just got in this morning.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:08] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Mucho needed</nowiki>

[09:09] Fancy Detector<nowiki>: Charlar Linden has arrived!</nowiki>

[09:09] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: working fine for me so far</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And I think that is all I have for news this morning.</nowiki>

[09:10] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: Hey all</nowiki>

[09:10] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: hey</nowiki>

[09:10] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: If that's all, just tell us all you know about the LF functions...</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Anyone else have any topics or questions?</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Since I learn that it's not lTeleportAgent() which is used... The used function seems to require a LM...</nowiki>

[09:11] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Anything on framed motion drift?</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm afraid I don't have anything on that Nal</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: In the forums, Simon explained a bit...</nowiki>

[09:12] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx Kal, I'll find it</nowiki>

[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: You must use times which are multiples of 1/45 because llSKfM is based on frames</nowiki>

[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: *integer multiples of 1/45</nowiki>

[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: And I added this on the wiki already.</nowiki>

[09:13] Susie Chaffe<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://community.secondlife.com/t5/LSL-Scripting/llSetKeyframedMotion-turning-a-corner/td-p/1225219<nowiki> is the thread</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: ah interesting</nowiki>

[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: It really improves things...</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm.</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: No other questions? I think today is topic day but we can jump to jira triage if it is this quiet.</nowiki>

[09:18] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: seems rather quiet</nowiki>

[09:18] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Monday morning...</nowiki>

[09:18] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I haven't been doing any scripting lately so have nothing new.</nowiki>

[09:18] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: triage is good, I don't recall we did any last week any how</nowiki>

[09:18] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: same</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah I think we just did discussion last week. All right. </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?requestId=14052<nowiki>&mode=hide</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Skip the first three. I need to tell jira not to put subtasks first.</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-31</nowiki>

[09:19] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-31

<nowiki>[#SCR-31] New LSL function: llGetParcelMusicURL()</nowiki>

[09:20] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: oohh one of my favourite entries</nowiki>

[09:20] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: scripted parcle controls mmm</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-199</nowiki>

[09:20] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-199

<nowiki>[#SCR-199] Reduction/removal of llCastRay limitations</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I imported 31.</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think 199 is done already?</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: At the very least it is already acknowledged, it even has falcon assigned to it.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I know he made changes and I'm pretty sure those were released.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But maybe he plans more? I'll follow up with him later today.</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-154</nowiki>

[09:23] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-154

<nowiki>[#SCR-154] llRezObjectFast() and llRezAtRootFast(), rezzing functions with zero delay</nowiki>

[09:23] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Not a chance...</nowiki>

[09:23] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Somebody must tell it...</nowiki>

[09:24] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Dont really see a reason why not to.... since people just use multiple scripts to do it anyway</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The problem I see with rez is we have a lot of 'grey goo fence' logic that may rely on the current behavior to be effective.</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Rez also is one of the few (only?) script actions that still uses "energy" which further rate limits.</nowiki>

[09:25] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: throttle it and limit it to grey goo as a maximum?</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: And such a function is a door widely open to abuse...</nowiki>

[09:25] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Wouldnt it be enough to have the goofence work on the object thats rezzing... while the scripts itself didnt have a limitation</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: When I talked to andrew about this last the conversation quickly turned to a bit more radical an idea - llNoFunctionSleeps to disable function sleeps entirely instead of continuing the piecemeal function at a time approach.</nowiki>

[09:27] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: limit/owner rather than by objct</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The goo fence is a complex system that takes a LOT of factors into account to attempt to differentiate good goo (ALife) from bad goo (grief attack)</nowiki>

[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Go ahead! Nobody will complain if delays disappear... Well not many ppl will...</nowiki>

[09:28] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: dem griefers will be happy happy</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Some of the factors used by the goo fence is the number of different rezzers and the generation of the objects. Reducing the need to split scripts will have an effect on the fence.</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: so it isn't that we can't do it, it is just that it really needs to be well thought out and there may be unintended consequences.</nowiki>

[09:29] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: so unsurprisingly, the goo is a sticky subject</nowiki>

[09:30] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: Alert community ground protection units, local unrest structure detected. Assemble, administer, pacify.</nowiki>

[09:30] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Since we're kinda sorta starting to use Aditi for things again, try it out over there?</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That fence has evolved over many many years in a constant battle between "ack they took out my sim" and "but my fish need to breed!"</nowiki>

[09:30] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Personally, I see nothing bad about a removal of function sleeps</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It would be opt-in so it wouldn't break legacy content.</nowiki>

[09:30] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Wont give greifers "tools" they dont always have (via workarounds)</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The exception is things like the grey goo fence that take the number of scripts involved into accoubnt</nowiki>

[09:31] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: perhaps a per script setting ?</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah, it would be a new function call.</nowiki>

[09:31] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: like you can throttle the events</nowiki>

[09:31] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: so much concern over "griefers" oh for the grid to have such attention again :p</nowiki>

[09:32] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Griefers always ruin everything.... Even when they're not here...</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is still very much an active issue.</nowiki>

[09:33] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: (off topic: any chance we'll ever see an increase on the per sim prim limit?)</nowiki>

[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Why not a tier reduction?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm going to close this one as Deferred, it is complex and we don't have time to look into it now unfortunately</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't know squirrely. I obviously don't want to get into 'prim equivalence' but I think we had kind of hoped a smarter accounting system would allow us to do better on that front. There are lots of ways that 15k prims is already too many, but a reevaluation of that is probably not on the table near or mid term</nowiki>

[09:35] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: okay</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Upping it to 18k or 20k would cause problems, but being smarter about what kind of content there was to better balance it would be great.</nowiki>

[09:37] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: 10 trees for 1 prim</nowiki>

[09:38] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: 1 ugly house cost 9000 prims even if it looks like 50 prims</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: heh</nowiki>

[09:39] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Is there a set limit to the number of scripts a task can contain?</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: No</nowiki>

[09:39] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: In theory... Over 4 billions...</nowiki>

[09:40] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: I ask because somebody entered my place, created a prim, then created scrips in it until the region went down.</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm pretty sure you'd hit some memory limits in the region before then.</nowiki>

[09:40] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ardy: How recently?</nowiki>

[09:40] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: About 8 months ago.</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I recall a bug about that being fixed. Yes, definitely since then.</nowiki>

[09:41] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Okay</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think if you have more than 1k scripts you won't be able to rez the object.</nowiki>

[09:42] Motor Loon<nowiki>: dont matter if its already rezzed Â°?Â°</nowiki>

[09:42] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: He created the scripts in the object while it existed in the simulator.</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yup. We blocked that as well.</nowiki>

[09:42] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Thanks</nowiki>

[09:43] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: i am a bit worried that with all this tweaking of the current scripting system, many "radical" improvements to the SL architecture are not on the table for a long long time ... stuff like hierarchical linking, which seems to be essential for a 3d environment, for example ... i wonder how much better of a virtual world we could get if Lindens, with all their experience, could come up with if they would start over from scratch</nowiki>

[09:44] Kopilo Hallard<nowiki>: passing out</nowiki>

[09:44] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: TheBlack Box, that worked SOOO well with viewer 2 ;-)</nowiki>

[09:44] Motor Loon<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:44] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah...</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :) There is a great article about starting over from scratch and some of the fallacies involved.</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But I can't find it right now.</nowiki>

[09:45] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: O.O I would expect a start over project to take years to reach a useable point.</nowiki>

[09:45] Motor Loon<nowiki>: at best</nowiki>

[09:45] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: i know it is just a dream :) but still some improvements seem to be impossible as long as it all has to be small incremental additions to the existing system</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Heirarchical linking is not impossible in the current system.</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It isn't trivial, but it isn't impossible.</nowiki>

[09:46] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: yes ... Andrew mentioned that he looked into hierarchies when he started to help on mesh ... nbut i think he gave up again</nowiki>

[09:46] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: What does H-Linking do for a 3D world, if you'll answer a sort of newbie question?</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Nal: I usually think of a robot.</nowiki>

[09:47] Motor Loon<nowiki>: just really makes life easyer for soo many things</nowiki>

[09:47] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: Nalates: Joints</nowiki>

[09:47] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Ah! ok Thx</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Nal: You want to move the arm and have the hand move with it. Right now the hand and arm are both linked to the 'root'.</nowiki>

[09:47] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: the thigh bone is connect to the knee bone...</nowiki>

[09:47] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: sorry, little late</nowiki>

[09:48] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: I was thinking date and objects rather movement</nowiki>

[09:48] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: data^</nowiki>

[09:48] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: object-animation in general is and will remain yucky until we have hierarchies</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It would also be nice to have say a dining room set and be able to unlink a chair from the table and have it still be a chair (kind of a bad example but that kind of idea - take a piece off without taking it all to pieces)</nowiki>

[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That too!</nowiki>

[09:49] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: the best analogy i can come up with is that the current system is like doing 2D image-manipulation without having layers</nowiki>

[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: And the other way around too..</nowiki>

[09:49] Motor Loon<nowiki>: some form of "grouping" might do too</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Basically Heirarchy allows/enables grouping.</nowiki>

[09:50] Motor Loon<nowiki>: but we'd need better pivot controls too then</nowiki>

[09:50] Motor Loon<nowiki>: for it to be really useful</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Havok has a lot of pivot controls we could hook into.</nowiki>

[09:51] Motor Loon<nowiki>: It does... problem is... not breaking all the old shit Â°?Â°</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: As far as I understand at least.</nowiki>

[09:51] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: yes Motor ... a real hierarchy would involve relative pos, rot and scale at each sub-node .. just like it is in a collada-scene-tree</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: You would have to build new things to use the new features of course</nowiki>

[09:52] Motor Loon<nowiki>: ooh... and lets have it used that wonderful new mesh accounting too then</nowiki>

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: hehehe</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 13 PE per joint! Motor requested it!</nowiki>

[09:52] Motor Loon<nowiki>: </sarcasm></nowiki>

[09:52] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Falcon and Andrew still want to add heierarchy for vehicle and other things</nowiki>

[09:52] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: hehe</nowiki>

[09:52] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:52] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ....not sure if anyone asked but anything on llSetKeyFramedMotion()?</nowiki>

[09:53] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: I did early on... want a note card</nowiki>

[09:53] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: ?</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://community.secondlife.com/t5/LSL-Scripting/llSetKeyframedMotion-turning-a-corner/td-p/1225219

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: that has the comment from Falcon</nowiki>

[09:53] Motor Loon<nowiki>: vehicles with working suspension is a longtime dream in sl.... sighs...</nowiki>

[09:53] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: patience, Motor</nowiki>

[09:53] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: maybe once Qarl is done with his current mesh-deformer project we could let him come up with a master-plan for hierarchies ? :) he understands the subject really well</nowiki>

[09:53] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: And look at the caveats on the wiki page... The part about time...</nowiki>

[09:54] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I want it too but we can't bug them into it yet</nowiki>

[09:54] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Sure we can afford that Black? ,.-)</nowiki>

[09:54] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not till we have hierarchy</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 5 minute warning</nowiki>

[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Before it's too late... SCR-79</nowiki>

[09:55] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-79

<nowiki>[#SCR-79] llMatchGroup() - Checks if an object or agent is active in a specified group.</nowiki>

[09:55] Motor Loon<nowiki>: gonna take more than 5 mins to get thru that list</nowiki>

[09:55] Motor Loon<nowiki>: that function would be nice</nowiki>

[09:56] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: SCR-30 is before that ;-)</nowiki>

[09:56] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-30

<nowiki>[#SCR-30] llGive* feedback and transaction event</nowiki>

[09:56] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: don't we have something like that, Flexi?</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-30 I need to decide how to deal with since I've done part of it (on aditi now)</nowiki>

[09:56] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: and it's half acknolwedged ;-)</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And there are duplicates</nowiki>

[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yep... Half-done already.... That's why I skipped it.</nowiki>

[09:57] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: THis group thing has been bugging me for years.</nowiki>

[09:58] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Would atleast be nice to be able for a script to check if an avatar is in a certain group</nowiki>

[09:58] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: hehe, I'd like a llInGroup(), which just checks if the Avatar is a member of the objects group</nowiki>

[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: *IN* a group... Not if the group tag is active...</nowiki>

[09:58] Motor Loon<nowiki>: workaround needs bots and crap... and really a pain</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ima: Don't we have that already?</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llSameGroup or something?</nowiki>

[09:58] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:58] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: most easy way would be to just unblock llGetObjectDetails to give group key also for agents</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Same group than the object...</nowiki>

[09:59] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: not that I'm aware, only SameGroup which require you be ACTIVE</nowiki>

[09:59] Motor Loon<nowiki>: llsamegroup is useless</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ah the difference would be active vs. all groups they are in.</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I don't see what's wrong with it? maybe bad coder's logic in handling that?</nowiki>

[10:00] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: well only the one the object is set to, but yes it would check against ANY group they're members of</nowiki>

[10:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The sim already knows that... It knows where we can rez, where we can enter... Even with not tag over our head... That's what a script needs to know too.</nowiki>

[10:00] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: the MatchGroup function would mak eit redundant though</nowiki>

[10:00] Motor Loon<nowiki>: why not take it a step further and let us check against any groupkey and not just what the object is currently set to</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-79 wouldn't solve that as described since it only checks the active group as well</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Just because the sim knows doesn't mean other people should know.</nowiki>

[10:01] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Motor, there are privacy concerns about that extra step ;-)</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think this is a thorny issue because of the strong desire for privacy around SL and things in SL. I can definitely see people not wanting others to know some of the groups they are in.</nowiki>

[10:02] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Nothing I'd be concerned about Â°?Â°</nowiki>

[10:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Still, that a bit stupid that an object in the group to which ppl belong can't know that they belong...</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And there is stricter requirements for an object being in a group than just knowing the UUID of the group.</nowiki>

[10:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: No privacy concern here... You're belong or not.</nowiki>

[10:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: -re</nowiki>

[10:03] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: yes Kaluura, which is why I'd propose there isn't a privacy issue as they 'both' belong to the same group ;-)</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The check for whether or not they are in (as opposed to have active) a group that matches the objects group seems a bit easier.</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But that isn't SCR-79</nowiki>

[10:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: what I don't understand what do you need it for? not securiy check, right? because you should have copy of those UUID check anyway</nowiki>

[10:04] Motor Loon<nowiki>: can we edit SCR-79 to fit our "needs" ? Â°?Â°</nowiki>

[10:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: All the jira about groups turn around the same problem... This is the right answer, whatever this jira says...</nowiki>

[10:04] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: Vincent, because that list of UUIDs can get VERY long and out of date</nowiki>

[10:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ...and?</nowiki>

[10:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: that's.... good?</nowiki>

[10:05] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I mean group don't change</nowiki>

[10:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, 5 minutes past time!</nowiki>

[10:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks for coming out everyone.</nowiki>

[10:05] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: later Kelly!</nowiki>

[10:05] Motor Loon<nowiki>: damn he noticed</nowiki>

[10:05] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: See you kelly & Charlie.</nowiki>

[10:05] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: see you</nowiki>

[10:05] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: group membership does change though</nowiki>

[10:05] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh come on now, he's only human</nowiki>

[10:05] TheBlack Box<nowiki>: thanks for the oh</nowiki>

[10:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Next week is Turkey week in the US. I think I'll still be here monday though.</nowiki>

[10:05] Ima Mechanique<nowiki>: both people joining and leaving</nowiki>

[10:05] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Turkey week, nice way to put it. xP</nowiki>

[10:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And Cranberry Sauce week.</nowiki>

[10:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Ima, I just don't understand what you're trying to do or gain from it</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 11 07

2012-01-10T17:57:29Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Ardy Lay |- |flexi campfire |- |Leonel Iceghost |…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Ardy Lay
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Vincent Nacon
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:01] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly.</nowiki>

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Hi Kelly</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Kall, fixing some minor things may seem simple but isn't always that simple</nowiki>

[09:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hi...</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: may lead to another bigger issue in the code work</nowiki>

[09:01] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: hi Kelly</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: like Havok</nowiki>

[09:01] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: Hi Kallista</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning.</nowiki>

[09:01] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: hey everybody</nowiki>

[09:01] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: morning</nowiki>

[09:01] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: hey there</nowiki>

[09:02] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: evening</nowiki>

[09:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: sailors will be along shortly, I told them their problem was a scripting bug ;-)</nowiki>

[09:02] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: >_></nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: LL</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: haha</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:02] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ban Ima</nowiki>

[09:02] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:02] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: ebil Ima</nowiki>

[09:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I'm well aware of the issues involved in fixing things. Telling us to use the non extant llCastRay() for 16 months was not a solution... Nuff said</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: of course... he'd have to suggest something like that</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: because he really can't help you straight away</nowiki>

[09:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: so he gave you a "work around"</nowiki>

[09:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The work around was not yet implemented.</nowiki>

[09:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah, that's the irony of it</nowiki>

[09:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: So, Kelly, ready to spill the beans about the new functions in the LR regions or should we prepare the torture instruments?</nowiki>

[09:04] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: in other words.... wait up.</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura heh.</nowiki>

[09:04] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: LR regions?</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The game regions.</nowiki>

[09:05] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Project-LR-Frequently-Asked-Questions/ta-p/1057471

[09:05] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Silliest thing is that CastRay isn't even really implimented even now, because the limitations make it only useful for one-time use.</nowiki>

[09:05] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh you don't need any torture equipment, just light up a match and tross it over to Char</nowiki>

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Meany. :p</nowiki>

[09:06] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: he'll grow back</nowiki>

[09:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Char is not whom were interrogating</nowiki>

[09:06] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: I need to get a Smokey the Bear avi to come talk to Vincent</nowiki>

[09:06] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: ah yes, I saw a youtube video on that this morning</nowiki>

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: LOL</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: how would you know if Kelly doesn't care about Char? ;)</nowiki>

[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: hahaha</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So briefly on the server front, Blue Steel is getting promoted this week and the server maintenance branch on LeTigre will get another week on RC.</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: anywho</nowiki>

[09:07] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: don't worry Charlar, there's plenty of tree-huggers to protect you ;-)</nowiki>

[09:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: BTW how many people find Hanze Christian Anderson's fair tails to be really depressing?</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: fire won't protect you</nowiki>

[09:07] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There are a couple of oddities in some scripts on letrigre - particularly some that take controls. we have some adjustments going in this week for that.</nowiki>

[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: thanks Liisa and Ima</nowiki>

[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think I'm allowed to let you all actually hug me, but you can do it in your minds...</nowiki>

[09:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Oh Poop you mean we have to wait another week for the SVC-5927 fix?</nowiki>

[09:08] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927

<nowiki>[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued</nowiki>

[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:08] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: what are the oddities</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: if you can wait 18 months for it... you can wait another week</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The responsiveness is "off" - it looks like control events are maybe firing too often</nowiki>

[09:08] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I know I know...</nowiki>

[09:09] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I've been waiting for other things as well</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Our next server maintenance is coming along nicely and should get frozen early this week</nowiki>

[09:10] Liisa RunoLiisa Runo holds breath<nowiki>: i hear that viewer 9 will be cool one</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The next server maintenance has SCR-37</nowiki>

[09:10] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-37

<nowiki>[#SCR-37] llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And SCR-230</nowiki>

[09:10] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-230

<nowiki>[#SCR-230] llSetPhysicsMaterial() fails if you don't have modify perms</nowiki>

[09:11] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: woo hoo</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And SCR-147</nowiki>

[09:11] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-147

<nowiki>[#SCR-147] Timer event fails to trigger following heavy amounts of linked messages</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Liisa that's the one that connects directly to Facebook?</nowiki>

[09:11] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: wait what?</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And something fo0r SVC-7324</nowiki>

[09:11] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7324

<nowiki>[#SVC-7324] Physics stalls every 20-30 seconds</nowiki>

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: will that go to aditi once it's frozen Kelly?</nowiki>

[09:12] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: (no that is v4, but around v6 facebook get banned by international laws so after that one we dont need to worry about that)</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ima: yes.</nowiki>

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: this week?</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is the plan, subject to change.</nowiki>

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: excellent</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-37 has some changes since I last talked about it.</nowiki>

[09:13] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly I read a couple of weeks ago that you made something to improve performance when many people using control events at the same time, can you specify how it works?</nowiki>

[09:13] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: money_given event? does event include result code, agent and amount?</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The call is llTransferLindenDollars, which triggers a transaction_result event. The key used will match what shows in transaction history on secondlife.com if the transaction is successful</nowiki>

[09:14] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: event has ID, status, and message</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The transaction_result(key id, integer success, string message) The message is a short identifier string like INVALID_AGENT</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: On success the message key a CSV <dest_id>,<amount></nowiki>

[09:15] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: llTransferLindenDollars - returns ID?</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: the message is a*</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yes</nowiki>

[09:15] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: but it's llTransferMoney, isn't it?</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: (leonel I heard you, will talk about that next)</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: it is llTransferLindenDollars</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: key llTransferLindenDollars(key id, integer amount)</nowiki>

[09:16] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: ahh, changed damn, I'll have to update my LSL Editor now</nowiki>

[09:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Needs a new call, because of different behaivior</nowiki>

[09:16] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: augh... awkward function name</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: sorry.</nowiki>

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Next step is llTransferInventory()... Right?</nowiki>

[09:16] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Kind of assumes SL's currency will always be called Linden Dollars</nowiki>

[09:16] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Which might be a safe assumption</nowiki>

[09:16] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Or, might not...</nowiki>

[09:16] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: it is but still</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llTransferInventory is significantly harder</nowiki>

[09:17] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: money is better</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If there is ever something besides L$ transfered with LSL it will need a new function any way</nowiki>

[09:17] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: agree, ...Money is beter (and shorter)</nowiki>

[09:17] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: In the super distant future, people might be like</nowiki>

[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I think that that (L$) is a very safe assumption</nowiki>

[09:17] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: So, what were "Dollars"?</nowiki>

[09:17] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: ... maybe we will someday get different kind credits - like "gaming" credits...</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: can't use $ in code work</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: it's against code ethic</nowiki>

[09:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: ((short hand for Linden Dollars) ))</nowiki>

[09:18] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I know but we can't use it</nowiki>

[09:19] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Whatever the name... We should just be happy something exists. It's always better that nothing...</nowiki>

[09:19] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: if we do, we'd just call them Credit @Imaze ;)</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Please tell that to the DEC VMS people</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llTransferLindenDollars is what it is and what it will be. :) If there are credits or something else it will need a new call.</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: don't make me set Char on fire, Kelly</nowiki>

[09:20] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: What are the challenges with TransInventory?</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That's what he's there for Vincent</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:20] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: We can always make up our own functions like "TransferMoney" that calls the other function</nowiki>

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Of course that's much easier on a viewer with</nowiki>

[09:20] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah...</nowiki>

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: LSL Preprocessor</nowiki>

[09:21] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: They make a fireproofer spray for chistmas trees...</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Nal: A money transfer happens within a few seconds, if it takes more than a minute it won't happen (gets cancelled). The entire thing is transactional and works well for giving a dedicated success callback</nowiki>

[09:21] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: he's a cartoon tree, made of plastic</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Inventory gives on the other hand are closer to putting something in the mail. You don't know when they will get it.</nowiki>

[09:21] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: or IF</nowiki>

[09:22] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: if you put a link on the email you know it :P</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It also has tougher choices involved, such as should the script know if they decline it?</nowiki>

[09:22] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Nope</nowiki>

[09:22] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Easy answer</nowiki>

[09:22] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Return Reciept Requested.</nowiki>

[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The answer is clearly no.</nowiki>

[09:22] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx, Kelly. oviously we need an intant gratification function to help that along...</nowiki>

[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Not our problem is ppl decline what they buy...</nowiki>

[09:23] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Well, one of the causes of lost inventory is people who accidentally decline, or were in busy mode</nowiki>

[09:23] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: not directly, but through transaction_result it would be useful to have a USER_REFUSED result</nowiki>

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: What Ima said</nowiki>

[09:23] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Will the change to Direct Delivery remove those problems?</nowiki>

[09:24] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: maybe the safest way would be to create vendors that use the "output folder" like marketplace will do</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Additionally any callback that takes so long the region is very likely to have been restarted is very difficult.</nowiki>

[09:24] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and that will get to the incoming folder</nowiki>

[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Let's hope somebody thought about straightening the pipes for direct delivery...</nowiki>

[09:24] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: not vendors, but a function that doe sit</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is hard to find the script again when the host may change</nowiki>

[09:24] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: script doesn't know if customer receives inventory - but it should know if item delivery fails because of some technical reason (but not when user presses cancel button)</nowiki>

[09:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: So a response of Received, Failed, Failed_refused, Failed_busy</nowiki>

[09:24] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Some places I go to automatically give you a rules notecard or something. I accept it once, but not every time so my inventory doesn't fill with notecards</nowiki>

[09:24] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: I don't want them to be able to be like</nowiki>

[09:24] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: You must accept our rules!</nowiki>

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: No soup for you!</nowiki>

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: no. no. NO. NO NO NO NO,NO ATHOUSAND F**ING TIMES NO!!!!</nowiki>

[09:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Lols</nowiki>

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Ooopsies</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Pretend that didn't happen</nowiki>

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Gyaahaahah ooooh</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Me neither... I hate that...</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: so the answer to the question is just that it is harder.</nowiki>

[09:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yeah 40 copies of Siba Region rules 23.75 is 39 too many</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So lets jump back: Leonel Iceghost: Kelly I read a couple of weeks ago that you made something to improve performance when many people using control events at the same time, can you specify how it works?</nowiki>

[09:26] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: be able to use the marketplace api could solve it</nowiki>

[09:26] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: there should be some alternative for notecard rules</nowiki>

[09:26] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: There is warning to refrain from buying during rolling restarts... It's safe to assume that such a call would fail after a restart.</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There were a couple of changes made.</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: These are on LeTigre now I believe.</nowiki>

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: how there affect scripts, or sims</nowiki>

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: those*</nowiki>

[09:27] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: imaze, region rules can be quite complex amounting to 10 or more pages.</nowiki>

[09:28] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: If I had a region the rules would be "Don't do anything stupid"</nowiki>

[09:28] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: No notecard needed</nowiki>

[09:28] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Unfortunatly stipd is not well defined.</nowiki>

[09:28] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: you could name your sim that way</nowiki>

[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: hehehe</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We put a cap on the total time the scripts for an agent can trigger. This is the time outside normal script time.</nowiki>

[09:28] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: I would need two - "Imaze is allways right. Don't do anything stupid."</nowiki>

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so script start to fire less times per second?</nowiki>

[09:29] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: FLIP, added to which: Stupid is at the discretion of the region owner</nowiki>

[09:29] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: As the region owner you get to define stupid</nowiki>

[09:29] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Yeah</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: When you press a key we give your scripts that have control an extra chance to run. This happens in 'agent time'. To prevent abuse we added a cap per framer per agent. It is pretty large right now.</nowiki>

[09:30] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH much is explained.</nowiki>

[09:30] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: how much is large?</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Let me check</nowiki>

[09:30] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Is that why scripts that take controls still run if scripts are disabled? Because it's only scripts that actually use "script time" that are disabled?</nowiki>

[09:31] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: *oh*... "agent time" -- yeah, that does explain a lot.</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Right, disabling scripts on a parcel only stops the script time block.</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: 1ms per frame.</nowiki>

[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: So... Taking controls allows your script to work in no-script areas and gives it a boost in speed if you press a key... Interesting...</nowiki>

[09:31] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Per agent?</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes</nowiki>

[09:32] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: wait... why?</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The changes make it so you get at most 1 extra script run per frame.</nowiki>

[09:32] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: not for vehicle, right?</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Vincent for responsiveness of AOs and vehicles.</nowiki>

[09:33] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ok but.. only control event?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Weapon scripts already take controls</nowiki>

[09:33] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: controls give speed boost even when keys are not pressed</nowiki>

[09:33] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: most vehicles need timer event as well</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Actually mot gorean regions explicitly disallow wapons to have controls</nowiki>

[09:33] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and again what was the problem with llControlEventMode( ONLY_AT_CHANGE );? it seems a flag to look before the event, why it get complicated in the process?</nowiki>

[09:33] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: or did you mean only script that has control event is allowed to whole?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Not only the control event. They get an extra chance to run.</nowiki>

[09:33] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: ok</nowiki>

[09:34] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: still sounds like potential griefing abuse</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel because scripts are complicated. Anything that adds more data to serialize per script is difficult.</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There is some potential to use a lot of script time but the recent changes on letigre limit that severely.</nowiki>

[09:35] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: still don't like the sound of that</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And the 1ms is adjustable and we may drop it later.</nowiki>

[09:35] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I expect that some weapons makers are going to be upset.</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This is how it has always been. :)</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: with what?</nowiki>

[09:35] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: this isn't really about the vehicle and AO, is it?</nowiki>

[09:36] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly and can you limit is depending if the object is actually using the event or not? most take controls but don't handle them</nowiki>

[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I'm sure that some of them take controls</nowiki>

[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: so that they have quicker response under lag.</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: That is an interesting idea.</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is possible.</nowiki>

[09:36] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: In general, weapons take controls... How to detect fire button otherwise?</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Right - but why do you think they are going to be upset?</nowiki>

[09:37] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: current take controls have some useful scenarions in noscript zone - like hiding HUD when user enters to noscript parcel</nowiki>

[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: is it general control or motion controls?</nowiki>

[09:37] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: There's no difference...</nowiki>

[09:37] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: personally, I'd hold off this idea till Vehicle get a new API from Falcon and Havok's library source and till *hint* all viewers have AO built-in client.</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm not sure what you guys think is happening.</nowiki>

[09:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Sorry I've not delvd into that part of LSL yet</nowiki>

[09:38] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: You'll take my AO from dead cold hands...</nowiki>

[09:38] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: No script should be no script, simple as that</nowiki>

[09:38] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: 1ms per frame is enough time that only poorly designed or abusive items should be affected.</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 1ms is generally enough time to run ~20 scripts. More if they are 'quick'.</nowiki>

[09:39] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: no script is just a relic from the old times when LL didnt know what to do about SL, later LL realised that noÃ¤-script is a stupid thing and made control scripts ignore it. better to just remove option to ruin land with no-script</nowiki>

[09:39] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: there's a very good chance that people are gonna get setup about control in no script zone</nowiki>

[09:39] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: agreed: no-script is obsolete</nowiki>

[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: It does make it more difficult for script kiddies to grief</nowiki>

[09:39] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: even if it doesn't spam much... still could make people angry</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Vincent: Could you explain?</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: like posting mature pictures?</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We are not changing how scripts act in no-script zones.</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: particle spam?</nowiki>

[09:40] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Well, scripts that take controls have been able to run in "no script" parcels for years now.</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: sounds spam?</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: come on...</nowiki>

[09:40] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: it isn't hard</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: 20 scripts, 22 events per second, 20 avatars = 8800 events per second... it too much already to me</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I mean, what upcoming change are you complaining about.</nowiki>

[09:41] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: allowing scripts work in no-script?</nowiki>

[09:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Script kiddie are usually technotwits</nowiki>

[09:41] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Heh, that's not a change.</nowiki>

[09:41] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: It's nothing new...</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Vincent: that isn't changing. We have existing behavior that is going to continue to be the same as it already is on the entire grid.</nowiki>

[09:42] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: ... next item agenda?</nowiki>

[09:42] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah but it doesn't mean the potential isn't there</nowiki>

[09:42] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: anywho</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think that covers the topics I had.</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Any one else have pressing questions or topics?</nowiki>

[09:43] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Now, LR functions! Spill it!</nowiki>

[09:43] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: yeah!</nowiki>

[09:43] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: ya... and when we get more memory for Mono scripts?</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Haha.</nowiki>

[09:43] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: more mem ?</nowiki>

[09:43] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: and of course... it's really a good idea to get people on Client-side AO already.</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: imaze: I don't know. It isn't currently in development and requires memory limits to be in place.</nowiki>

[09:44] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Speaking of which the Firestorm AO is very good.</nowiki>

[09:44] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: In 2050... That's soon enough... Not important...</nowiki>

[09:44] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: aye</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: vincent: I'd love to see non-LSL AOs. Or at least AOs easier on the system.</nowiki>

[09:44] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: grab it from TPV's library</nowiki>

[09:44] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[09:44] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: bleh... I guess I am forced to split my HUD script to multiple and waste lot's of memory to linked messages :(</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yup. We are well aware of the disadvantages imaze.</nowiki>

[09:45] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: One event to detect animation changes would eliminate the need for a timer...</nowiki>

[09:45] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Kelly, Have you looked at FS/PH's AO? And how it affects performance?</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and llMessageLinkedTo would help us in the meanwhile :P</nowiki>

[09:45] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: +1 Kaluura</nowiki>

[09:45] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah and plus the bridge needed</nowiki>

[09:45] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: I have kind of an abstract question...is it possible for a region to like..."Mega Crash", and not come back up until someone manually starts it?</nowiki>

[09:45] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: +1 Leonel</nowiki>

[09:45] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: And if so, is there a way to tell the difference between that and a region that's just been deleted</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Flip: yes.</nowiki>

[09:46] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: SCR-184</nowiki>

[09:46] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-184

<nowiki>[#SCR-184] llMessageLinkedTo( "script name"...</nowiki>

[09:46] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: Leon, you can just assigned link number instead of whole</nowiki>

[09:46] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: You're derailling the conversation... Kelly was about to talk about the LR functions...</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: scr 184 is a nice idea.</nowiki>

[09:47] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: oh script name hmm</nowiki>

[09:47] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: What would llRequestSimulator data show for a deleted region? "down" or "unknown"? (Or something else)</nowiki>

[09:48] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: maybe not script name but with key?</nowiki>

[09:48] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: if llMessageLinkedTo is someday implemented - I want to have list type parameter on it.</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: As described it will still use the link_message event and thus not have a list type parameter</nowiki>

[09:48] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: why not wscript name? lot more easy compared to key</nowiki>

[09:49] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: list for sending to many strings? or list as a param to pass</nowiki>

[09:49] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: because... I could drop in a script with same nam.... err actually... hmm</nowiki>

[09:49] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: list as param to pass</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: names on object contents are unique</nowiki>

[09:49] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: could remove the script and replace it with my script with same name</nowiki>

[09:50] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: is that a problem?</nowiki>

[09:50] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: if you say I could make the prim no mod.... then we wouldn't need it</nowiki>

[09:50] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: It's not different from the spying on link messages that you can do right now... No need to worry about it. If you do that, you just break the object too.</nowiki>

[09:51] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: some time you have to break something to hack</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is certainly no worse than the current version that sends the message to all scripts in the prim in that regard Vincent.</nowiki>

[09:52] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: eh?</nowiki>

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: anyway the Kaluura idea to make a animation change event would help things that are not AOs, like custom weapons and sport games</nowiki>

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Any way, targetting one specific script would be any improvement... Even if it does not improve the "security"... which is any way all relative.</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: right now llMessageLinked sends to all scripts in a prim. If you can replace a script with the same name you could add a new script and eaves drop</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: For AOs I think I'd rather give a way to replace the default animations and not require an event at all.</nowiki>

[09:53] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:53] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that too!</nowiki>

[09:53] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: llMessageLinkedTo is not for security, it is for giant performance increase</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Just a way to say 'this is now the animation for running'</nowiki>

[09:53] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah! I vote for that too!</nowiki>

[09:53] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: yes pleazzzzzzzze</nowiki>

[09:54] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: That would be a HUGE win but where are the default animations stored?</nowiki>

[09:54] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I understand but it's nice to have some anyway</nowiki>

[09:54] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: okay... Kelly was just telling us sekret LR information...</nowiki>

[09:54] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: WHAT!</nowiki>

[09:54] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Remind me what LR is</nowiki>

[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... It's time now...</nowiki>

[09:54] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: it's nothing</nowiki>

[09:54] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Project-LR-Frequently-Asked-Questions/ta-p/1057471

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I heard on LR regions there are scripted objects. Top secret info: all scripts on LR regions are compiled to *mono*. I think.</nowiki>

[09:55] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: xD</nowiki>

[09:55] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: Oooo...</nowiki>

[09:55] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: and it currently has stuff like TP agent and attach that dont require any perms, and Kelly will now tell us more</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I must plead the fifth in this case. For now.</nowiki>

[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Pfffrrrrt!</nowiki>

[09:56] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly one thing games need is to know the gender of players? we need llGetGender(Id)</nowiki>

[09:56] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: I'd be happy with llGetSex()</nowiki>

[09:56] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: muhaha!</nowiki>

[09:56] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Heh</nowiki>

[09:57] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: llGetGender()</nowiki>

[09:57] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: in some languages it is reeeaaaly hard to send a message to someone without proper words, and llGetGender is needed</nowiki>

[09:57] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: that means an llSetGender()</nowiki>

[09:57] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: should it return float type or integer type?</nowiki>

[09:57] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Reminds me of a comic I read some time ago.</nowiki>

[09:57] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: So Kelly there's a region that I fear was deleted, but Im also looking into the possibility that it just "Mega Crashed". Is there any way I could determine that on my own?</nowiki>

[09:57] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:57] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: float</nowiki>

[09:57] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: no need for that, Kall</nowiki>

[09:57] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: a vector?</nowiki>

[09:57] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:57] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: can be detected by shape type</nowiki>

[09:57] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: vector? eeeeeeew, maybe for zindra</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Flip: I think you need to go to support or concierge.</nowiki>

[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Not really... Shape type is not accurate. A lot of AV have a female shape because it can be smaller.</nowiki>

[09:58] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I think he meant script wise</nowiki>

[09:58] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Gender type should be rotation. ;-)</nowiki>

[09:58] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: llRequestSimulatorData shows it to be "down". Do you know if that's what a deleted region would show?</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If shape type is not accurate, what are you hoping this function would return?</nowiki>

[09:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: 4 elements?</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't know actually flip.</nowiki>

[09:58] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kaluura it can be a new option, or like display language if you don't want to share it is your choise</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: wait what? rotation for what?</nowiki>

[09:59] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: He wants to be able to select proper pronouns.</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: shape size?</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Being 'deleted' is more of an account status thing than a region status thing.</nowiki>

[09:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: vector are 3 elemts Rotarions are 4</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: There is new debug settings in FUI... I saw it... Something gender something...</nowiki>

[09:59] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: bust, hips, bottom?</nowiki>

[09:59] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Oh btw it's a mainland sim...kinda</nowiki>

[09:59] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: frame of mind</nowiki>

[10:00] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: I'd still like a MAC function, no not OS X related ;-)</nowiki>

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kellz we need to fix the msgs we give in our huds.. in some languages it becomes hard to talk to women, and you end saying things like "you are a good boy"</nowiki>

[10:00] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: McDonald related?</nowiki>

[10:00] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: And these are all questions I wanted to ask at last Friday's meeting but I...couldn't get in for some reason ?.(?)</nowiki>

[10:00] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: lol no</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The user group on friday was a bit busy. ~120 across 2 regions.</nowiki>

[10:01] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Yeah, I just bailed out and waited for the transcript.</nowiki>

[10:02] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: wasn't there a reason why we can't have llGetGender() function? wasn't it because it had potential sexual harrassment?</nowiki>

[10:02] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: ya... I hope that Andrew figures out what is causing problem and how to fix it</nowiki>

[10:02] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: Was funny to see my shout at the beginning.</nowiki>

[10:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: well, my theory is that the problem is.. sailors</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: 100 Sailors and 20 Working girls</nowiki>

[10:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: get rid of the sailors, no problem ;-)</nowiki>

[10:02] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: hahaha</nowiki>

[10:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Yeah but with a transcript you can't retroactively ask a question during the meeting...unless they're perfected time travel already</nowiki>

[10:03] Vincent Nacon<nowiki>: I just told my racing folks about it and told them that I've very proud of them not acting like sailors</nowiki>

[10:03] Ardy Lay<nowiki>: My question was answered almost immediatly by Andrew.</nowiki>

[10:03] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: For a large meeting it went well.</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Times up for today. Thanks everyone for coming. Have a good week.</nowiki>

[10:04] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: thanks kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx Kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: thanks Kelly, Charlar</nowiki>

[10:04] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: thanks Charlie</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 10 24

2012-01-10T17:57:07Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Jeremy Duport |- |Leonel Iceghost |- |Motor Loon …"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Jeremy Duport
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Motor Loon
|-
|Script Counter
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[08:59] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly & Charlie.</nowiki>

[08:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Ave Kelly Ave Charlar</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning. Hope everyone had a good weekend.</nowiki>

[09:01] Wolfie Fox (wolfie.waves)<nowiki>: Yes thanks :)</nowiki>

[09:02] Wolfie Fox (wolfie.waves)<nowiki>: Yourself?</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Wasn't too bad.</nowiki>

[09:02] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly do you know where I can find a BNF of LSL?</nowiki>

[09:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal

[09:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Everything you ever wanted to know, and then some</nowiki>

[09:03] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it is a bit wrong the operators precedance</nowiki>

[09:04] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it the wiki</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Really?</nowiki>

[09:04] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: yes </nowiki>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Operators

[09:05] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: || and && should be the same</nowiki>

[09:06] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: anyway, do you think is there a proper grammar?</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Unfortunately that part of LSL is very frozen. It appears to be documented that they aren't the same</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think we have published one, unless it was in the old source.</nowiki>

[09:07] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: do you think you could publish it in the future, or it is not something we shall ask?</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think there would be harm in publishing what we have, and I suspect it was probably in our very early viewer source releases.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Lets cover what little news I have and then get back to general discussion today.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The estate access list LSL functions are expected to be promoted to release this week.</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm not sure what is going into RC - nothing new LSL related as far as I'm aware this week.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm moving back into server-maintenance this week after a few weeks of helping out other projects.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I did run into an interesting little effect regarding script sleeps, and will be tweaking it in an upcoming release</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yes?</nowiki>

<nowiki>Total Avatar Scripts - 318</nowiki>

<nowiki>Highest - Kallista Destiny: 80 (25%)</nowiki>

<nowiki>Lowest - Jeremy Duport: 3 (1%)</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I was playing with some scripts this weekend and I wanted to set up a basic i/o channel polling a resource. I *know* that resource isn't going to change while the script runs</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So a while(not_changed()); seems particularly wasteful</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Since it will force the script to run for the full time.</nowiki>

[09:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: yeah</nowiki>

[09:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: 100%</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: However if I did the really small sleep - whie(not_changed()) sleep(0.00001); trick the performance dropped in half.</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: In theory that should let it just check once per sim frame (ie when it might have actually changed)</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I dug into the sleep code and found that the way we are doing it will cause a sleep, no matter how small, to skip a frame.</nowiki>

[09:14] Motor Loon<nowiki>: I also though llSleep was kinda of a resource hog?</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'd like a really small sleep to ack as a yield.</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llSleep is not a resource hog.</nowiki>

[09:14] Motor Loon<nowiki>: ok, that's good</nowiki>

[09:14] Motor Loon<nowiki>: perhaps it was just a silly rumor</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So a super small sleep would say 'I'm done this frame, but I want to continue the next frame'</nowiki>

[09:14] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Would be nice if llSleep(-1); would just skip a frame as opposed to do any sort of sleep calculation</nowiki>

[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Skipping a frame is not good. llSleep should at a minimum 'release the processor for the rest of this frame</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: (assuming every script gets run every frame)</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So .... that is the change I will be making.</nowiki>

[09:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: which it should in a non pathological region</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think the general effect will be minimal.</nowiki>

[09:16] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Difficult to think of even an accidental reliance on the old frame-skipping timing.</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But it means that while(llGetObjectDesc() == "") llSleep(0.00001); will be just as fast as while(llGetObjectDesc() == "");</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: but the former will be much nicer to the simulator / other scripts.</nowiki>

[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: but will use a lot less processor time</nowiki>

[09:17] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Yep, that'll be useful to remember</nowiki>

[09:17] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so to skip a frame we will need to put 0.22?</nowiki>

[09:18] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: I make use of frame skipping to deal with objects that do llDie(); immediately after doing a regionsay so things like the id in the listen event doesn't rerturn a null key</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: You will need > 0.022</nowiki>

[09:18] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that</nowiki>

[09:18] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: still it was a nice feature</nowiki>

[09:18] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: to check positions and stuff that don't change while the frame is the same</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It will still skip to the next frame, it just won't skip to the frame after the next.</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: hmmmm I wonder if negative llSleep values could be how many frames to skip?</nowiki>

[09:19] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: So... <0.022 will skip to every other frame now? ?</nowiki>

[09:20] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: is the operation on negative vlaues defined?</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Less than 0.022 will probably get you a chance to run again next simulator frame</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think it is.</nowiki>

[09:20] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Is there no chance we could just get a dedicated frame skip function?</nowiki>

[09:20] Motor Loon<nowiki>: so llSleep(0); has no effect?</nowiki>

[09:21] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: im guessing the limit for the sleep change wont take into consideration the current performance of the sim, as in what if the sim is normally running with lower fps than usual</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llSleep(0) has no effect.</nowiki>

[09:21] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: llSkip(integer frames_to_skip);</nowiki>

[09:21] Motor Loon<nowiki>: seems overkill Kallista</nowiki>

[09:22] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I'm sure some content use 0.0001 as a feature, they will sudently use a lot more cpu</nowiki>

[09:22] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Dies it at least give up the processor for this frame?</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This change will basically just make sleeps more accurate: right now if you sleep the script will continue running the frame *after* it is determined the sleep is over.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Not significantly Leonel, but I will be testing that. If you have some examples besides what I have stated please let me know.</nowiki>

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Good find though</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes, llSleep will still give up the cpu for this frame.</nowiki>

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: no llSleep(0.) does it give up the frame.</nowiki>

[09:23] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: old content before llSetMotion uses that for rotations and vectors.. other than that I can't thing something else</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: let me check kallista</nowiki>

[09:24] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: I think a dedicated frame skip function be good for those of us that end up having to trap things in loops or to work around odd behaviours in LSL</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think llSleep(0) gives up the frame</nowiki>

[09:25] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Oh Kelly, what would you consider the least "proper" llSetTimerEvent() value?</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What do you mean?</nowiki>

[09:26] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: 0.05</nowiki>

[09:26] Motor Loon<nowiki>: from a resource standpoint..... any value thats so small it'd not do as intended anyway, or use more resources than we "should" ..</nowiki>

[09:27] Motor Loon<nowiki>: I've used llSetTimerEvent(0.001); before thinking it was less agressive than such a while() method you mentioned earlier...</nowiki>

[09:27] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Can llSetTimerEvent() even be executed multiple times in a single frame?</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ash - yes.</nowiki>

[09:28] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Ahhhhhh</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: what? isn't the minimum capped at 0.04?</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Motor: Yes, llSetTimerEvent(0.001) is less aggressive than while(). Anything less than ~0.02 is the same</nowiki>

[09:29] Motor Loon<nowiki>: ok</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: minimum what?</nowiki>

[09:29] Motor Loon<nowiki>: minimum rate at which timer() will be run...</nowiki>

[09:30] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I thought llSetTimerEvent(0.001) works at is 0.04</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It probably has a similar check to sleep - a 2 frame minimum or 0.045s</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm a little more hesitant to play with that one as fast-as-you-can timers are more common than really low sleeps.</nowiki>

[09:31] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: isn't there maximum 25 script events per second?</nowiki>

[09:32] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that is why I thought llSetTimerEvent less than 0.04 had no effect</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think there is a maximum of ~45 or 1 per frame, but I'd have to verify that.</nowiki>

[09:33] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Is that events like touch_start or functions like llGetPos?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: events like touch_start</nowiki>

[09:33] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Do functions have a particular limit?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: No</nowiki>

[09:33] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Ah.</nowiki>

[09:33] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: There's a maximum number of timer events a single script can have per second, but that's directly because of the minimum value enforced on timers rather than because of an event cap.</nowiki>

[09:34] Motor Loon<nowiki>: so the real difference is that while() would block any events from happening while it loops, and timer() would allow them?</nowiki>

[09:34] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: That and while is far more intensive if there is no sleep.</nowiki>

[09:35] Motor Loon<nowiki>: with sleep ofcourse, and at same rates</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There is no explicit limit on timer rate.</nowiki>

[09:35] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: :o</nowiki>

[09:35] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:35] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There is no explicit limit on number of timer events a single script can have per second. I'm sure there is an implicit limit.</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The "0.04s" makes me think it is a similar off-by-one issue as sleeps - otherwise it would be 0.02s</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: testing gives 22 scripts events with timer at 0.00001</nowiki>

[09:40] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: [09:39] Object: 4.468671 101 22.601800e/s</nowiki>

[09:40] Object<nowiki>: 4.466899 101 22.610770e/s</nowiki>

[09:40] Object<nowiki>: 4.468441 101 22.602960e/s</nowiki>

[09:40] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: the limit is that a timer running at 0.04 requires you to use only few lines of code. Essentially not more than can be handled within the time. Otherwise things will be slower :)</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm. Okay we won't queue a timer event if you are in a timer event or have one pending. I think this leads to a cycle of one frame add, next frame run, next frame add.</nowiki>

[09:40] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: Like, using commands that force a script to sleep for a certain time</nowiki>

[09:42] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: kelly it would be great to have a new timer event that works 45 times per second.. there are very difficult workarounds for testing things every frame that could be fixed</nowiki>

[09:42] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:42] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: where in testing you need timers?</nowiki>

[09:43] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: to check the pos of something in a game, that moves 15m/s its like 0.75m.. for a game it is a lot.. the workaround is a while and modify the desc of the object to comunicate with other scripts</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: With the sleep change an llSleep(0.001) will let you run every frame. It will be just as performant as an every-frame timer would be.</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm managed to use nearly 3/4 of the time with this. Much more than I expected, but the discussion is very good. Before we run out of time - are there any other hot topics or general issues to discuss?</nowiki>

[09:45] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: My coffee is cold :(</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: You need a better mug! Mine is still warm and I made it at 7:15 this morning.</nowiki>

[09:46] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Loading scripts from objects that you don't own.</nowiki>

[09:46] Motor Loon<nowiki>: ooh I need a mug like that</nowiki>

[09:46] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: as opposed to requiring that you own the prime</nowiki>

[09:46] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: ... Huh. I -do- need a mug like that.</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What do you mean Kallista?</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ah for llRemoteLoadScriptPin?</nowiki>

[09:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: currently to yuse the load script call you hve to own the prime that is th source of the script.</nowiki>

[09:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yeah</nowiki>

[09:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: it turns out that it would be really really useful to have a single prim with the scripts in a region that everyone could load from</nowiki>

[09:48] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: Is that in reference to editing scripts in other user's objects with the viewer, or specifically loading scripts via other scripts?</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It would require a new system - a single integer isn't enough to prevent brute force attacks, especially when they could be happening just wherever you are</nowiki>

[09:48] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The publishing of the pin and name should be sufficient</nowiki>

[09:48] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly checking the creator would be nice</nowiki>

[09:48] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Generate a UUID on the fly</nowiki>

[09:49] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Would be pretty tough to bruteforce</nowiki>

[09:49] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Well that would be a different call</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes, a UUID would be much harder to brute force.</nowiki>

[09:49] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: llRemoteLoadScriptUUID()</nowiki>

[09:49] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Hournest it sounds kinda scary</nowiki>

[09:49] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: But still, one would want to force an explicit permissions query, I think.</nowiki>

[09:49] Motor Loon<nowiki>: oh yes</nowiki>

[09:50] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: No because the owrn of the deliverying prime would not be the creator of the cripts</nowiki>

[09:50] Wolfie Fox (wolfie.waves)<nowiki>: Is there any news on llSetMemoryLimit?</nowiki>

[09:50] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: but the</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Wolfie: What word are you looking for? That function is available now.</nowiki>

[09:51] Motor Loon<nowiki>: is there a problem with setmemorylimit ?</nowiki>

[09:51] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: I use it in a few of my scripts and it works fine. :o</nowiki>

[09:51] Wolfie Fox (wolfie.waves)<nowiki>: As I remember it was broken where it would not persist when region crossing</nowiki>

[09:51] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: That was fixed weeks ago.</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes, that should be fixed.</nowiki>

[09:51] Motor Loon<nowiki>: oh thank god... I've been using that alot too</nowiki>

[09:51] Wolfie Fox (wolfie.waves)<nowiki>: Oh, guess no one told me about it :(</nowiki>

[09:52] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Y' probably never asked. :p</nowiki>

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: any notice of those plans for using it for more than 64k?</nowiki>

[09:52] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Oh, speaking of llSetMemoryLimit()... just to confirm, this really has no beneficial effect for the sim, right? It just helps us "promise" others about what our scripts use -- the sims can't actually do anything with that to save on garbage collection or anything, right?</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Not right now Leonel.</nowiki>

[09:53] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: It's not a feature I've really used much, but is XML-RPC safe to use? There's still a note on the wiki that says it's sort of deprecated, and a blog post of yours (Kelly) from 2009 saying that it was being worked on at least in some capacity.</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Correct Qie. Except your script will crash if it goes past it.</nowiki>

[09:53] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: right. thanks.</nowiki>

[09:53] Motor Loon<nowiki>: sorry what?</nowiki>

[09:53] Motor Loon<nowiki>: setting the limit wont actually make the script use less memory on the server?</nowiki>

[09:53] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: I use it for scripts that use less than 16kb while on Mono. That way it uses less than an LSO script. :3</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It works as good now as it ever will and I have no announcements to make about really deprecating it Jeremy.</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Xentha: yes, that is the intent.</nowiki>

[09:54] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: Okay! :D</nowiki>

[09:54] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it can use more resourses if it hits the garbage collector actually</nowiki>

[09:54] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I guess..</nowiki>

[09:54] Motor Loon<nowiki>: are you kidding me?</nowiki>

[09:55] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: So long as you get yourself a reliable reading of how much memory the script is likely to use, and give it a little extra, it shouldn't go past the limit / crash / revert.</nowiki>

[09:55] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: Oh, I know. I've used xml-rpc for one project, something like four years ago. I was just interested.</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Right. Motor: Mono scripts use only the memory they need, unlike LSL which always uses a fixed 16k. The 'limit' is the promised cieling.</nowiki>

[09:56] Motor Loon<nowiki>: so basically using setmemorylimit is a waste of time...</nowiki>

[09:56] Motor Loon<nowiki>: I heard mono reserved the full amount of memory on the server</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is not the case.</nowiki>

[09:57] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Mono is dynamic in terms of memory usage.</nowiki>

[09:57] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: setmemorylimit affects the value returned by the getobjectdetails OBJECT_SCRIPT_MEMORY flag, yes?</nowiki>

[09:57] Motor Loon<nowiki>: hm.. I thought "they" never got that working and it just reserved the full amount anyway... damn..</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Correct Jeremy</nowiki>

[09:58] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: That's LSO/LSL scripts that reserve their full amount, Motor.</nowiki>

[09:58] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: Then it has psychological worth. :)</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Motor: No, mono memory use has always been dynamic.</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Correct Jeremy.</nowiki>

[09:58] Motor Loon<nowiki>: okies... I'll just use mono and stop worrying about memorylimit then</nowiki>

[09:59] Motor Loon<nowiki>: that actually saves alot of time on my end</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it will be a concern when they implement per avatar limits or like that</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Also, when/if we move forward with memory pooling and memory limits the reported cieling for mono scripts is what will be used in the accounting - same as the reporting now.</nowiki>

[09:59] Motor Loon<nowiki>: I was running profilers and crap in my stuff to find memory use and setting the limits to use the least possible resources...</nowiki>

[09:59] Motor Loon<nowiki>: pointless then</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Actually setting the memory limit keeps the script nazis (much like ARC nazis) from getting on your customers case.</nowiki>

[10:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: ^</nowiki>

[10:00] Jeremy Duport<nowiki>: Exactly. :D</nowiki>

[10:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: That's why I use it.</nowiki>

[10:00] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Any odds on whether LL will move to meory limits or just stay with Land Impact to limit it?</nowiki>

[10:00] Motor Loon<nowiki>: well, true</nowiki>

[10:00] Turn off display names scrub. (wolfgang.senizen)<nowiki>: but but ARC means soooo much</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: So it is a worthwhile effort</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And it is 10!</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thank you everyone for coming out.</nowiki>

[10:00] Motor Loon<nowiki>: but if it wont make my simcrossing faster... there's not much point for my point of view</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good discussion today.</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 09 19

2012-01-10T17:56:49Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Ape Piaggio |- |Cale Flanagan |- |flexi campfire …"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Ape Piaggio
|-
|Cale Flanagan
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Sera Lok
|-
|Stickman Ingmann
|-
|Techwolf Lupindo
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[08:56] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Morning, Kelly.</nowiki>

[08:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: good morning.</nowiki>

[08:56] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: hi Kelly</nowiki>

[08:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: afternoon</nowiki>

[08:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Evening...</nowiki>

[08:56] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Or well afternoon, heh</nowiki>

[08:57] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea, actually it is evening here</nowiki>

[08:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html

[08:58] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: is it that time of the year already?</nowiki>

[08:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Apparently so</nowiki>

[08:58] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Oh dear.</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Small group today. Give it a few more minutes for people to wander in.</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, lets get started then.</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hello.</nowiki>

[09:04] Sera Lok<nowiki>: hi^^ hi everyone</nowiki>

[09:04] Ape Piaggio<nowiki>: hello</nowiki>

[09:05] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[09:05] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: 'Scuse me.</nowiki>

[09:05] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: thanks we alreadyhave fire:)</nowiki>

[09:06] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: I got the food on a stick here...:-)</nowiki>

[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: For some reason I just can't find the wiki page for this user group this morning</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: got it</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Scripting_User_Group

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: anyway! News first.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: "DRTSIM-92" (server maintenance) seems to be doing okay in RC, but I don't think is getting promoted this week. I think the mesh maintenance project is.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 92 is on Le Tigre now and I think Blue Steel is what will be promoted.</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Andrew's script performance work is in DRTSIM-96 which is on deck for an RC this week or next, I'm not sure.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: While not technically part of this meeting's topic, there is a fix for 'timewarps' that we are testing this week on the beta grid I believe. A kernal upgrade. Hopefully that goes well.</nowiki>

[09:10] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: :o</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I'm still wondering what those time warp are...</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: +s</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is about all the release news I have. Aside from Andrew's changes nothing immediately pending for scripting.</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The whole host seems to stall.</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: They aren't fun.</nowiki>

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: Kaluura, they take a jump to the right...</nowiki>

[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Never seen...</nowiki>

[09:12] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: I've been tp to regines that had one or two agents, good .99 TD and then suddelly start spiking in UDP traffice sent, buying stuff gets delayed and so on, but TD remains .99. Starnge.</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is kinda rare but particular to some hosts which may have them frequently.</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: On Friday I built another HTML Hud demo: </nowiki>https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Radar_HUD_Demo

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This one uses javascript, ajax/jquery and html5/canvas</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is more of a base for something useful than really useful by itself.</nowiki>

[09:14] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Is it reasonable to think that one day we'll be able to use semi-transparent background for MoaP?</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But pretty small. Updates in real time (~ 2hz)</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: I dunno. I don't think it is being actively worked on, and it would be a viewer feature.</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: would be nice though.</nowiki>

[09:15] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Very useful for HUDs...</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I agree.</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm eager to find other html huds, and to encourage their creation if I can.</nowiki>

[09:16] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: got any comment on SCR-199 ?</nowiki>

[09:16] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-199

<nowiki>[#SCR-199] Reduction/removal of llCastRay limitations</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Falcon took a look at that. "server-maintenance next" has adjustments that allow more cpu time for cast rays.</nowiki>

[09:17] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: good</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That one isn't ready for internal QA yet though so it will be a bit before it sees a release</nowiki>

[09:17] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: frien also said he found a bug in ray, but i have not found time to look at it yet, ill JIRA it if it is real bug</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: k</nowiki>

[09:17] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Apart from some combat sims, it's not as if a ton of ppl will use it all at the same time.</nowiki>

[09:18] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Who came with this idea of limitation?</nowiki>

[09:19] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: when i use rays, i will need several rays on every cycle, for example 9 rays for a critter to wander around, or 4 rays for NPV car</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Some limits are necessary else you could eat up all the script time with cast rays from very few scripts.</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think he erred on the side of restrictive so that we could adjust them later with less risk of breaking content.</nowiki>

[09:21] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: And that new how?</nowiki>

[09:21] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: Sercially, there are more CPU hogging commands then cast ray that have less restrictions on them.</nowiki>

[09:21] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: "he"? Names, we want names! :P</nowiki>

[09:22] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: Sounds like it was Falcon himself. Which seems odd.</nowiki>

[09:22] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: I'll get the lynching sticks. We can start before we have facts.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Actually there aren't more cpu hogging commands.</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Depending on how you use llCastRay</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It will be better. :) I just reviewed the change this morning.</nowiki>

[09:23] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: it will be fine</nowiki>

[09:23] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I think that most of the time ppl will just want the first hit.</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: In that case you should use almost no time and you should be able to do lots of those.</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The idea with this limit is to distinguish between the easy and hard calls.</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Rather than some hard # of calls limit that would have to take the expensive ones into account</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is too restrictive now, but that will be fixed. If the next adjustment isn't enough we will adjust again.</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: OK... We'll keep on complaining until the limits are lifted. :P</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right.</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Any other super hot issues before triage?</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide<nowiki>&requestId=14052</nowiki>

[09:26] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Let's triage!</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Apparently thats the first thing on triage.</nowiki>

[09:26] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ^^</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I've bugged lots of people. Is it fixed on BlueSteel do you know?</nowiki>

[09:27] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: good to hear</nowiki>

[09:27] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: next</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm. No I don't see anything for it in bluesteel</nowiki>

[09:28] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:29] Object<nowiki>: Bienvenue à bord</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Alright I acknowledged it, imported it and I will bug more people about it.</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-172</nowiki>

[09:30] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-172

<nowiki>[#SCR-172] need scripts to compile with accented character strings</nowiki>

[09:30] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Can't reproduce. Must be OS specific...</nowiki>

[09:30] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:30] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: ...or viewer specific.</nowiki>

[09:31] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:31] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i cant repro it eitehr</nowiki>

[09:31] Object<nowiki>: Bienvenue à bord</nowiki>

[09:32] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: reported 2007, maybe it was bugged back then</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: okay, next.</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: moon just moved it over so maybe they can still repro it?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-133</nowiki>

[09:33] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-133

<nowiki>[#SCR-133] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: arg</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: that one is a viewer bug.</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: viewer but!</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: well I imported it. We do need to fix that.</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-115 is next.</nowiki>

[09:36] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-115

<nowiki>[#SCR-115] State changes considerably slower under Mono-LSL than LSO-LSL</nowiki>

[09:36] Object<nowiki>: 0.022222 seconds/state-change</nowiki>

[09:36] Object<nowiki>: 0.000326 seconds/state-change</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Still true. Not sure that is going to get fixed though.</nowiki>

[09:36] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I've never noticed any spectacular slow downs...</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Under the hood state changes are much more involved in mono.</nowiki>

[09:38] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i noticed with one toy that got around limits with state change spam, but nowdays we dont have those limits anymore, but still tthe state change is slower, and easy to confirm with the provided script</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I like this one because it is easy to confirm and I like investigating easy to repro performance issues.</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Though I'm skeptical about my ability to do much about it.</nowiki>

[09:39] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The numbers are impressive...</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: switching states in LSL is just a couple pointer changes, mono isn't designed for states so it involves self-inspection, looking at all the defined functions and assigning them as event handlers as appropriate.</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This is one case where C# (and writing code designed to be C#) would be faster.</nowiki>

[09:41] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: ok, solution found, introduce c#</nowiki>

[09:42] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: Just about anything would be better the the current LSL. LUA comes to mind.</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: LUA doesn't meet our concurrency requirements.</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-112</nowiki>

[09:43] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-112

<nowiki>[#SCR-112] Using PARCEL_MEDIA_COMMAND_AGENT with llParcelMediaCommandList() when parcel's media URL is set causes previous video replay</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: interesting, very specific</nowiki>

[09:45] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: Qucik google shows a lot of reports on LUA concurrency.</nowiki>

[09:45] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: I need to go. bye all.</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: cya techwolf</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay I imported that one so normal server triage will see it .</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Next is SCR-107.</nowiki>

[09:48] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-107

<nowiki>[#SCR-107] llTakeControls(0, TRUE, TRUE); triggers unexpected error msg</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm not sure either. Are they trying to release controls?</nowiki>

[09:49] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i guess it is just part of an experiment to do wild things and see what happens, sometimes you just have to divide by zero to see if anyting new happens</nowiki>

[09:50] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Heh...</nowiki>

[09:50] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: every now and then we find neat haxes this way</nowiki>

[09:51] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: seems they use it to force the permission aquisition, and specify actual controls desired later</nowiki>

[09:51] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: like pushing self with zero force, makes no sense, but result is good and usefull</nowiki>

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I suppose they are trying to take no control in a HUD just to make the script work on no-script parcels.</nowiki>

[09:53] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: HUD or attachment...</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Looks like they thought you had to do something when permissions were granted to hold them. But you don't.</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llTakeControls(0,FALSE,TRUE) will work still though.</nowiki>

[09:54] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: or trying to take perms, and then take controls later when needed, without triggering new request to give perms</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: but you don't need to for that.</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I mean you can request perms, then call llTakeControls whenever you want after you have them.</nowiki>

[09:55] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea</nowiki>

[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: NMI...</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: nmi?</nowiki>

[09:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: NeedMoreInfo</nowiki>

[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Need More Info</nowiki>

[09:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: or just make it emit some silly error message and mark it as resolved</nowiki>

[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: hehehe</nowiki>

[09:57] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: O, 0, 1 should work the same as 0, 1, 1.. I wonder why it is different</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay. For the last few minutes I'd like some feedback, if you have any, on these triages. Are the useful? Boring? Just biding your time until we get down to the feature request ones?</nowiki>

[09:59] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: mixture of useful and biding time ;-)</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Useful, some times even fun...</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: they are good, if it helps to figure out something.. otherwise they have their own discussion</nowiki>

[09:59] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: sorry, gotta run. Thanks Kelly for doing such a great job owning this group.</nowiki>

[09:59] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i kinda like the triages, maybe not as intresting as some steamy debate over some specific issue, but gives me the feeling that every JIRA get atleast some attention.</nowiki>

[10:00] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: although I'd say more biding time for pet entries more than features specifically</nowiki>

[10:00] Stickman Ingmann<nowiki>: I'd like it if they went a little faster. Cover more issues. But if we're going to cover things well, that may not be possible.</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm gonna try and do my own quick triage before the next public one. I think it will be better if I clear out some of the obvious ones.</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Once we get to the bugs with 0 votes we can decide if we want to skip to the feature requests.</nowiki>

[10:01] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yay, some golden things in feature requests</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks everyone for coming.</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: See you next week.</nowiki>

[10:02] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: and we can actually get there some day, not that many bugs in LSL,</nowiki>

[10:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: thanks kelly</nowiki>

[10:02] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: See you, Kelly.</nowiki>

[10:02] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: thanks everybody</nowiki>

[10:02] Sera Lok<nowiki>: ty take care</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 09 12

2012-01-10T17:56:34Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Cale Flanagan |- |Fancy Detector |- |flexi campfire</fon…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Cale Flanagan
|-
|Fancy Detector
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|Moundsa Mayo
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning</nowiki>

[09:01] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: only 830 years? thats hard..:)</nowiki>

[09:01] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: morning</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Evening...</nowiki>

[09:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: morning Kelly</nowiki>

[09:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Liisa you forget inflation, and the company's return on its investment.</nowiki>

[09:02] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i didnt</nowiki>

[09:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Good Morning Kelly</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: just my wings.</nowiki>

[09:03] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: don't burn your wings!</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So last week shoulda been triage, but was a holiday so we are back to general discussion.</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: News first. I don't really have any.</nowiki>

[09:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Can you make something up?</nowiki>

[09:04] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: great.... then I should mention llTeleportAgent - just to be sure that is totally visible in transcript :P</nowiki>

[09:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: No news for llCastRay()... Stuck in the pipes?</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llCastRay is enabled in "DRTSIM-92" which is the next server maintenance project. It should hit RC this week.</nowiki>

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yay! At last...</nowiki>

[09:05] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ?</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I *think* DRTSIM-91, the current server maintenance project should get promoted this week.</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It has the fixes for llSetMemoryLimit and PRIM_LINK_TARGET</nowiki>

[09:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yeah!</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: DRTSIM-92 has SVC-34</nowiki>

[09:07] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-34

<nowiki>[#SVC-34] Right-clicking another Resident's moving object freezes it</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And cast ray.</nowiki>

[09:08] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: thanks for svc-34 :)</nowiki>

[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Seriously? Griefers won't be able to stop vehicles at random?</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And SCR-53</nowiki>

[09:08] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-53

<nowiki>[#SCR-53] llSensorRepeat not triggering no_sensor unless a sensor event handler is present</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And llGetMassMKS</nowiki>

[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: What is that?</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And some stuff for setting the physics materials and shapte types.</nowiki>

[09:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Real Mass</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llGetMass() reports in units of 100kg, for example if an cube is 1m to a side and the density is at the default of 1000kg/m^3 (the same as water), llGetMass() reports 10. Falcon has added a new function, llGetMassMKS(), which reports the mass in kg instead.</nowiki>

[09:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Is this going to apply to Avatars?</nowiki>

[09:09] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: why MKS and not Kg</nowiki>

[09:10] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: "The MKS system of units is a physical system of units that expresses any given measurement using fundamental units of the metre, kilogram, and/or second (MKS)."</nowiki>

[09:10] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Yay Wikipedia</nowiki>

[09:10] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: What Flip said</nowiki>

[09:10] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Avatars change whether they are in ground or flying right?</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: no mass should remain constant</nowiki>

[09:12] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: we need llGetWeight function to simulate zero g situations :P</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So, we've covered the upcoming releases. The floor is open.</nowiki>

[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: SVC-3713</nowiki>

[09:14] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3713

<nowiki>[#SVC-3713] Inter-sim version of llRemoteLoadScriptPin()</nowiki>

[09:15] SCR-90<nowiki>: :</nowiki>

<nowiki>llGetScale()</nowiki>

<nowiki><2.00000, 64.00000, 2.00000></nowiki>

<nowiki>llGetBoundingBox()</nowiki>

<nowiki><0.99992, 0.00000, 1.00000></nowiki>

[09:15] SCR-90<nowiki>: :</nowiki>

<nowiki>llGetScale()</nowiki>

<nowiki><2.00000, 64.00000, 2.00000></nowiki>

<nowiki>llGetBoundingBox()</nowiki>

<nowiki><0.99992, 0.00000, 1.00000></nowiki>

[09:16] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: Is that megaprim or new 64 prim?</nowiki>

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Both are the same...</nowiki>

[09:16] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: 64 normal prim, but it give zero for any size, from 0.01 to 65Km prims</nowiki>

[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: What I think would be reasonable is to remove the ownership and in the local region requirements. If the owner has set a pin (implying permission to load) the system should not set additiona restrictions on the transfer.</nowiki>

[09:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: in particular loading a script remotly keeps the load on the region down , for scripts that are rarely acessed. they don't need to be there.</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: "local region requirements" are not just arbitrary or just a flag we check. It is *significantly* harder to do things cross region.</nowiki>

[09:18] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Permission to load if you *know* the PIN, but someone could *guess* it...</nowiki>

[09:18] Fancy Detector<nowiki>: Charlar Linden has arrived!</nowiki>

[09:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: the pin and the UUID of the containing prim</nowiki>

[09:18] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it should have a flag to check creator, instead of owner...</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: a bit more difficult to guess. and at 3 seconds a guess...</nowiki>

[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That's still fast enough to update the scripts of all the meeros in one day...</nowiki>

[09:20] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: Not 3 seconds if a n array of serice scripts is used to attemp RemoteLoad</nowiki>

[09:20] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: [service]</nowiki>

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Very rarely, someone's object somewhere could get a script added to it that it didn't ask for</nowiki>

[09:21] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that is fixed by allow only the same creator</nowiki>

[09:21] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The prim would need to ask for it by UUID+PIN+Script name</nowiki>

[09:21] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That opens the door to "software copybot" if you can load scripts in somebody else's objects at random.</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think remoteloadscriptpin is really very great, especially for the product update case. Once we get to the point of "enabling" it for cross region behavior we might as well be building a whole new feature.</nowiki>

[09:22] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: New feature sounds good B^D</nowiki>

[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That too...</nowiki>

[09:22] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: I'll check to see if i have some spare resources t help out there ...</nowiki>

[09:22] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: OK, new, properly implemented feature</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Why not just 'llReplaceScript(key id)' that used the ID of a script? But is that really what you want?</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Or do you want 'llReplaceObject(key id)' to update the whole object?</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It should probably be something that just acts on the script or object itself, and not other objects.</nowiki>

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Designed for (1) updates and (2)Dynamicly loading rarely used scripts.</nowiki>

[09:23] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: A set of flags that alows many permutations B^D</nowiki>

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: YEs it need to be a load me</nowiki>

[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Both are interesting...</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Those are two *very* different uses that I'm not sure should be solved the same way.</nowiki>

[09:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Pull, not push</nowiki>

[09:24] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: we want to make "autoupdates" without bothering the user that much like now we do</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: both cases have issues with permissions, since permissions are not part of the asset.</nowiki>

[09:25] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: A new permission that is request first time owner rezzes product, like opting into updates of software for operating system?</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I wasn't even thinking that kind of permission.</nowiki>

[09:26] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Well the issuance of a pin on the script in question is an explicit permission to upload.</nowiki>

[09:26] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: For same owner, yes.</nowiki>

[09:26] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: it sounds like that you need something that integrates to user account, inventory system and viewer - instead of scripting solution</nowiki>

[09:26] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: o the actual script could be no-mod no-copy</nowiki>

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: also a way to "give inventory" inter sim would solve the problem too</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: but we need a way to allow only the creator, if script creator == object creator</nowiki>

[09:28] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: And may provide broader utility, Leonel.</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: give inventory won't start scripts though.</nowiki>

[09:29] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: many of us have given out modable prims and modable scripts, so just checking for script/object creator is not real security</nowiki>

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: but it gives objects</nowiki>

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that can be rezzed</nowiki>

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: with scripts working</nowiki>

[09:30] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: ..if there are enough free prims...</nowiki>

[09:30] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The idea is the there is a prduct X that has a master script (which is prettly large) and several very rarely used (alos large) helper scripts it could load them as needed at the cost of a 3 second delay have the do their things and then remove them, freeing up region resources</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: the cost of fully loading and fully unloading a script is high. It is probably rarely better to do it that way than leave the script idle.</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: once a day or week?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: maybe in that case.</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: given that even an idle script still uses cpu time</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: and memory</nowiki>

[09:34] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: So it can self-delete once it's done.</nowiki>

[09:34] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: exactly, or after a certain amount of idle time.</nowiki>

[09:35] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: That's how the SLRR switches work. They are loaded by a master script, make the routing change, then self delete.</nowiki>

[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: This is a generalization fo that feature</nowiki>

[09:36] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: Let the script decide on idle time before self-delete, or a parameter to control?</nowiki>

[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: that is up to the devloper</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: CPU time for idle scripts now really is very very low</nowiki>

[09:37] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: But not idle if Timer running?</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: So low in fact that they stop showing in the 'top scripts' estate tools</nowiki>

[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: yes but it is still there...</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: so low it might as well not be. really.</nowiki>

[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: no a timer just posts an event to occur at some future time</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Less than 1 us</nowiki>

[09:37] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so the statistics are broken kelly?</nowiki>

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Which statistics?</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it says it fills 20ms with 10,000 scripts</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: with 300Mb of ram, it should allow 100,000 scripts without summing one single ms</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: 100,000 hellow world scripts that is</nowiki>

[09:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: so that is 3.8 CPU seconds a day</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is 2us per script, which is still incredibly small.</nowiki>

[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: per idle script</nowiki>

[09:39] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that is a low to me</nowiki>

[09:39] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: a lot*</nowiki>

[09:39] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: sorry</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is not a lot.</nowiki>

[09:40] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: Ah where are the old days where one could squeeze 4 million iops out of a lsl2 sim... (pre mono)</nowiki>

[09:40] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you should be able to have 100,000 hello world scripts and 20ms spare time, and we are talking about 10,000 to fill 20ms</nowiki>

[09:40] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: with 7000 scripts that is a cppl of CPU minutes a day</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Oh hell no you should not.</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: How often do you run 100k programs on your computer?</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: 4kb a hello world script, you have 300mb right?</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: they are not running...</nowiki>

[09:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: There is some reasonable amount of time to determin weither a script could be dispached, a no 0 time.</nowiki>

[09:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: which is why we should be bale to purge unused scripts.</nowiki>

[09:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: and reload as needed.</nowiki>

[09:43] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Couldn't fit 100,000 hello world scripts in a region anyway</nowiki>

[09:43] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Not very useful in the first place...</nowiki>

[09:43] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: nods</nowiki>

[09:44] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you have only 100 avatars per region... if you want one day to have 1000 like any other game you should start to change your mind</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The region will perform fine and scripts should continue to perform fine even if scripts don't get to run every frame</nowiki>

[09:44] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Leonel, this is not WoW, with a fixed environemnt</nowiki>

[09:44] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: (SL is not a game)</nowiki>

[09:44] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: o.O How exactly would you fit that many people into one place for any particular reason aside from the welcome hubs?</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: this is not because these silly limitations all over</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: a war Xentha</nowiki>

[09:45] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: lol.</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: a party, anything</nowiki>

[09:45] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: there would be 64 m²</nowiki>

[09:45] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Not even proper games have that many people in one place for something like that. Most I've heard is like, 24 v 24 things or whatever.</nowiki>

[09:45] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: per user</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you never played multiplayer games Xentha</nowiki>

[09:46] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: And for things like WoW, people just idle in town for the most part.</nowiki>

[09:46] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: That's why it's so crowded there.</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that's not true</nowiki>

[09:46] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Prove me wrong. :p</nowiki>

[09:46] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: (we can also get SL to perform like games do, but that means we only have 32 different shirts in SL. 8 different vehicles, 12 different houses, and we cant modify them)</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: wars make people more every seconds</nowiki>

[09:46] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: and in any case that is not the discussion here</nowiki>

[09:46] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher)<nowiki>: Leonel, I'll bet you've never played a Multiplayer game with 1,000 peeps in a 256m x 256 area</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I did</nowiki>

[09:46] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: lineage, wow...</nowiki>

[09:47] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: Then that's where you should play, Leonel.</nowiki>

[09:47] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: the client just renders 200</nowiki>

[09:47] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: but they 1000 are in a small place</nowiki>

[09:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Everyone play nice please</nowiki>

[09:47] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: This is one of the very few virtual platforms that target Creators,as much as if not more than Players.</nowiki>

[09:48] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: You can't compare a game to a dynamically changing environment.</nowiki>

[09:48] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: More than...</nowiki>

[09:48] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: Kallista, i always suggest to clients that they use the apprpriate tool for the job. No disrespect is ever intended.</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I do agree we need to do more to enable game like experiences. But I think constantly working towards more and more scripts is probably not the best way. Instead we should be looking at ways to reduce the need for as many scripts.</nowiki>

[09:48] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I like SL, Moundsa.. I'm trying to see it improved.. no need to go other games if this is the future</nowiki>

[09:49] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: SL is not the future of combat simulators.</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: To better enable access and control from outside sources - either other server or the participants' computers etc</nowiki>

[09:49] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: But no platform can ever serve very disparate needs equally.</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And to move some of the things that really shouldn't require scripts out to other systems - like AOs</nowiki>

[09:49] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: Maybe if we could warp form SL to a game platform, then back, more easily.</nowiki>

[09:49] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that's a 10 years old thinking Moundsa, now we have clouds platforms...</nowiki>

[09:49] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: any plans to reincarnate C# project?</nowiki>

[09:50] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Well, TPVs have had AO's built into them for a long while.</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: imaze: No announced plans at this time.</nowiki>

[09:50] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Since this is listed in your scripting JIRA category, is there any chance we'll ever get any of the things contained in SCR-91</nowiki>

[09:50] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-91

<nowiki>[#SCR-91] llRequestAgentKey (llName2Key)</nowiki>

[09:50] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: No, I'm thinking right now, leonel.</nowiki>

[09:50] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Random thought though. Has there ever been the notion to give the temporary setting a specifiable time?</nowiki>

[09:50] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: AOs in TPV are user-hostile at best...</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Flip: There is always a chance, always hope.</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 10minute warning</nowiki>

[09:51] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Kaluura - I meant more of the underlining system it's self, not the UI for it. :p</nowiki>

[09:51] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: I like from Firestorm's AO - wasn't too hard to setup</nowiki>

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Still the concept of AO is an horror. Whe should be able to just replace the anims, not crush them...</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Right. exactly.</nowiki>

[09:52] Koli DeAllura Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: That's true.</nowiki>

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: we need a saw without configuring notecards, we should be able to throw al animations in folders and go</nowiki>

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: llReplaceAnimation(), Kelly?</nowiki>

[09:52] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: What would be nice, is simply a section of the inventory that has the default animations, and a way to replace them with others from your inventory.</nowiki>

[09:53] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: I don't imagine the server likes being asked if I'm walking 10 times a second...for example <.<</nowiki>

[09:53] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: That way instead of an overrider, you simply replace the defaults with the already set system.</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: Something like that. llSetAnimation(integer state, key animation)</nowiki>

[09:54] Popcorn! (female) whispers<nowiki>: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to throw popcorn.</nowiki>

[09:54] Popcorn! (female) whispers<nowiki>: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Though as SCR-26 made apparent, there are a LOT of states, not all immediately useful.</nowiki>

[09:54] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-26

<nowiki>[#SCR-26] llGetAnimation constant transparency</nowiki>

[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Altho key animation, I think you'll make yourself mortal enemies with that...</nowiki>

[09:54] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: llSetDefaultAnimation(Animation_type, animation_key) ?</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think you want 'default' in there. You kinda want llSetAnimationForState but that is wordy</nowiki>

[09:55] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: Wait.</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And llSetAnimation isn't currently used.</nowiki>

[09:56] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano)<nowiki>: llSetStateAnimation</nowiki>

[09:56] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu)<nowiki>: You're worried about wordiness when we have llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast?</nowiki>

[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Please, no more llFunctionWithASuperLongFancyNameYouCannotRemember()!</nowiki>

[09:56] Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)<nowiki>: Like, LlWinTheGameImmediatelyBecauseYouAreSoCoolToday? ;)</nowiki>

[09:56] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: I'm still trying to get over 6-character assembler labels ...</nowiki>

[09:57] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: llRemoveAllBugs()</nowiki>

[09:57] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: So I personally err on the side of hyper-wordiness.</nowiki>

[09:58] Moundsa Mayo<nowiki>: Helps in team work, though.</nowiki>

[09:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Actually the firestorm AO is quite good and non intrusive</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: You want to minimize confusion, maximize clarity and minimize key strokes.</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: make the wordly functions and add autocompletion, and things like that built in in SL</nowiki>

[10:00] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: a more consistent way toname functions would also have been nice</nowiki>

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: so we no longer have to ctrl a ctrl c alt tab ctrl a ctrl v every two seconds :P</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Times up! Thanks everyone for coming out.</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 08 29

2012-01-10T17:56:20Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Cale Flanagan |- |Fancy Greeter |- |flexi campfire</font…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Cale Flanagan
|-
|Fancy Greeter
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|JB Hancroft
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|NeoBokrug Elytis
|-
|Techwolf Lupindo
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[08:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Here he comes!</nowiki>

[08:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Hey Kelly!!!!</nowiki>

[08:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hi Kelly...</nowiki>

[08:58] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: And here he is for real.</nowiki>

[08:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning</nowiki>

[08:58] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: Hi kelly</nowiki>

[08:58] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Kelly time</nowiki>

[08:58] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: morning kelly</nowiki>

[08:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Everyone have a good weekend?</nowiki>

[08:59] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Not bad, thanks. Your self?</nowiki>

[09:00] oobscure (opensource.obscure)<nowiki>: very hot here in italy but yes thanks!</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Mostly rain here in England.</nowiki>

[09:00] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Sunny where I was in the UK.</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Was pretty nice weather out here. A bit on the warm side maybe.</nowiki>

[09:01] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: rain and wind, but fine otherwise in pa</nowiki>

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Going to be hot here in SoCal</nowiki>

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: not as hot as last week though</nowiki>

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Did someone give you a cookie Flip?</nowiki>

[09:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Mhmmmmmm</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, this is another discussion week - 5th monday of the month. Back to Triage next week.</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't have a lot of news.</nowiki>

[09:03] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: What do we do on the 6th Monday of the month?</nowiki>

[09:03] oobscure (opensource.obscure)<nowiki>: we divide by zero</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Freak out at how there could be a 6th monday</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I've been sharing this HTML HUD demo I did last week: </nowiki>https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/HTML_HUD_Demo<nowiki> to show off llSetContentType that came out in the script maintenance release</nowiki>

[09:04] werqa0<nowiki>: chuj wam w dupe xD</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: OO put up a nice screenshot in case anyone is wondering what it looks like.</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks for that.</nowiki>

[09:05] oobscure (opensource.obscure)<nowiki>: thank you for the code :D</nowiki>

[09:05] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Flip we have an imprecise floating point devide by Zero at or before Location 0x00034fb0</nowiki>

[09:05] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: I'll look forward to that</nowiki>

[09:05] oobscure (opensource.obscure)<nowiki>: I love how it interacts with the viewer, sort of</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: heh, yeah it is just secondlife:///app urls</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The version up there now has a configuration page to demo forms as well, which isn't in the screenshots.</nowiki>

[09:06] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i love app urls, but too bad they are borked in v2/3 and cant copy paste them onward like i can with v1 clients</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: hrm</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: They work well in the hud demo at least.</nowiki>

[09:07] Fancy Greeter<nowiki>: Charlar Linden has arrived!</nowiki>

[09:07] oobscure (opensource.obscure)<nowiki>: hey Charlar</nowiki>

[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: Hi all!</nowiki>

[09:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Hi Charlie</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hey Charlie</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Charlie: I was just discussing / sharing my HTML HUD demo: </nowiki>https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/HTML_HUD_Demo<nowiki> not sure if I showed that to you yet.</nowiki>

[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: Sorry to be late Kelly</nowiki>

[09:08] Techwolf Lupindo<nowiki>: I think firestorm undid that b0rk liisa, but I have to double check that.</nowiki>

[09:09] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: no - wow, so many words...</nowiki>

[09:09] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: thanks for the link, Kelly</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I was looking at SCR-176 this morning and think I have a fix. It definitely never worked right.</nowiki>

[09:09] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-176

<nowiki>[#SCR-176] llAvatarOnLinkSitTarget is not working properly</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And that is about all I have. Table is open.</nowiki>

[09:09] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: So anyone who thought it worked was just hallucinating?</nowiki>

[09:10] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Is the llSetMemoryLimit fixes getting rolled out this week?</nowiki>

[09:10] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Since it's rather useless right now.</nowiki>

[09:10] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yay for the fix, and if it never worked, then i just had too many marbles lost when i tested it first time</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah flip.</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: No Koli</nowiki>

[09:10] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Aw.</nowiki>

[09:10] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: And the PRIM_LINK_TARGET not working in child prims thing?</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Actually hold on.</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Might be that people have been testing it sitting on the Root Prim?</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Oh it does look like both the link target and max memory bug fixes will probably get to RC this week.</nowiki>

[09:11] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: \o/</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: woot</nowiki>

[09:12] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Speaking of llSetMemoryLimit... what lies between us and raising the max limit above 64KB ?</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llAvatarOnSitLinkTarget would only ever work if the script was in the prim the person sat on and you asked for the correct link number for that prim.</nowiki>

[09:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: NO if you set the man memory, and it works the you TP to a non compliant region does it still have effect</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Qie: enforcing memory limits.</nowiki>

[09:13] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Now*</nowiki>

[09:13] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: lols</nowiki>

[09:13] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: oh. heh.</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista hm? Can you rephrase?</nowiki>

[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Typos. if you set max memory on a RC region the TP to one that dosn't have the fix, is the lower max in effect?</nowiki>

[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: then TP*</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: it may revert to the larger max in that case. I'm not 100% sure though.</nowiki>

[09:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: nods.....</nowiki>

[09:16] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i re-opened SCR-90 Cant edit the JIRA so look at the 2 comments i made. (dont hold a cup of hot coffee while reading or you might burn your lap)</nowiki>

[09:16] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-90

<nowiki>[#SCR-90] llGetBoundingBox() returns wrong values on Magnum RC</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm. I'll point maestro back at it.</nowiki>

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: *chuckles*</nowiki>

[09:19] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Totally unrelated... I was wondering if it would be possible to make a script aware of the position where an AV clicks to sit.</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That would be difficult</nowiki>

[09:20] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it already says the position for touch right?</nowiki>

[09:20] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: new params at least</nowiki>

[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: No... No touch event when you sit. Only changed().</nowiki>

[09:21] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: any hopes of getting the new functions to show up in the upper column of </nowiki>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:LSL_Functions<nowiki> with pretty new tags next to them?</nowiki>

[09:21] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: first click to detect the pos, then script enable click to sit and tell the clicker to click again. not very practical but a way to do it</nowiki>

[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That's the ugly solution I'd like to avoid...</nowiki>

[09:22] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: I've done that same thing and yeah, it's fugly.</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: draconis: I'll see if I can add them there today.</nowiki>

[09:23] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: yay</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: You need to know the u/v/face position of the touch for the sit?</nowiki>

[09:23] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That would be interesting too...</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Or what are you asking for?</nowiki>

[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Actually both... The position of the AV when they click and where the click happens.</nowiki>

[09:24] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and it would be nice to know the pos and rot the avatar had before sitting</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: you could use llGetObjectDetails to get their position</nowiki>

[09:25] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: right... you've have to poll for it, ahead of time</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Except that we would get the position of the AV already sitting.</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: oh, right, I see.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Knowing the position when the AV is would allow us to prevent ppl from clicking from the other side of the sim...</nowiki>

[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: And knowing where they click would make sit-TP with a map very easy.</nowiki>

[09:27] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Oh, maximum sit distance</nowiki>

[09:28] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: lols</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and would allow for correct "bar chairs" those where you should sit pointing where you want.. instead of a prefixed looking at sit</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: hrm. interesting ideas. Would take some thinking to get the interface right.</nowiki>

[09:29] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: and would know on what side of the door was the agent on sit type animated doors, nowdays they have timer to poll or are 2 prims</nowiki>

[09:29] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: IMHO, it might be complicate...</nowiki>

[09:30] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Nice understatement</nowiki>

[09:30] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: also teleports right now, leave you looking always to the same point.. and if you where backwards you lose where you at for a bit</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: draconis: I have no idea how that wiki page is populated. It is template magic.</nowiki>

[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I hate templates in the wiki!</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Literally this is the entirety of the functions section: {{LSL All Functions|name|key=*}}</nowiki>

[09:31] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: if you are in lab, shout and ask, some linden in the cubicle labyrint knows</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Not in my office. I'll see if I can figure it out though. Probably just need to make sure the wiki pages for the functions are correct.</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Oh here it is </nowiki>https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Template:LSL_All_Functions<nowiki> ..... which just includes more templates</nowiki>

[09:32] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Templates hell... =^_^=</nowiki>

[09:32] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: SCR-179</nowiki>

[09:32] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: I thought that was all Strife magic, not meant for mere mortals.</nowiki>

[09:32] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-179

<nowiki>[#SCR-179] New feature: llManipulateLindenFlora()</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Interesting.</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I wonder if we should just allow scripts in plants.</nowiki>

[09:34] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: I thought for a moment that was referring to Linden body parts...</nowiki>

[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That would be much easier...</nowiki>

[09:34] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: LOL</nowiki>

[09:34] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: if you want us to have 4000 more scripts in the sim, sure, allow us to script them</nowiki>

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :p</nowiki>

[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: hehehe</nowiki>

[09:34] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: every needle on that spruce... eeek!</nowiki>

[09:34] NeoBokrug Elytis<nowiki>: Except you can move grass to 4068 on the z, then never be able to select it again</nowiki>

[09:35] NeoBokrug Elytis<nowiki>: Moving grass would be scary.</nowiki>

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah it would be tricky, it would need to maintain all of the current restrictions (only on land you own, height restrictions etc)</nowiki>

[09:35] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: an Ent ?</nowiki>

[09:35] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Well, Ent's move. :p</nowiki>

[09:36] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: have you think about the llOnlyFireControlEventAtChangedKey()?</nowiki>

[09:37] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: or control_start / end, that is</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I took a look. It is trickier than I thought it might be</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: :(</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: isn't it just an added check if !changed don't schedule this event? :P</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: At a theoretical level yes.</nowiki>

[09:39] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: It's kinda already possible to simulate it with what control() event provides...</nowiki>

[09:40] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: how do you simulate it?</nowiki>

[09:41] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: integer pressed = (held & change); integer release = (~held & change):</nowiki>

[09:41] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: ;*</nowiki>

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: a hud per avie, a meter, a couple of weapons, a flight assistant.. a fight between 20 avies.. and you get a laggy sim with 3000 events per second, and there are bigger fights..</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Right he just wants the optimization to not fire the events he doesn't want.</nowiki>

[09:42] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: if (pressed) { control_start(); } else if (released) { control_end(); }</nowiki>

[09:42] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: no need of fights.. any game with 20 avies moving and you get those eps</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: But I was reading between the lines that what he wants it less overhead in the sim and script scheduler.</nowiki>

[09:42] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: But it's true not having the unwanted events would be nice...</nowiki>

[09:43] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: to get rid of useless control stuff. we should get something like llAllowThisScriptToRunOnAnnoyingNoScriptLandWithoutTakingControls(TRUE); ... im guessing that about 96% of the scripts that take controls just do it to run in no script, and they dont actually use controls for anything else.</nowiki>

[09:44] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Liisa, taking controls don't fire events</nowiki>

[09:44] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That too...</nowiki>

[09:44] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Liisa, we need that too.</nowiki>

[09:44] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: kelly, jfi, i wrote a feature request for the regionsayto listener stuff</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Cool Cale.</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: the problem are scripts using the controls... like AOs, meters, weapons, flight assistants.. those are the more laggier problems</nowiki>

[09:45] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: sure</nowiki>

[09:45] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: guess its 177:)</nowiki>

[09:46] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: SCR-177</nowiki>

[09:46] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-177

<nowiki>[#SCR-177] Extension to llListen and listen for llRegionSayTo</nowiki>

[09:47] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: that s it:) hit and run:)</nowiki>

[09:47] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I'd like an llListenOwner() to listen to llOWnerSay() too...</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llOwnerSay is special - it avoids all the normal chat stuff and goes striaght to the viewer.</nowiki>

[09:48] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: normal... as in distance calculations ?</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: hooking it up to the general system so scripts could listen would be complicated, also I'm not sure we want objects you own arbitrarily listening in to that channel</nowiki>

[09:49] NeoBokrug Elytis<nowiki>: New events, new functions.</nowiki>

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: normal as in distance and More(tm) that allow scripts to get chat.</nowiki>

[09:49] NeoBokrug Elytis<nowiki>: listen_2</nowiki>

[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: It's true that could open a can of worms if OwnerSay could be intercepted...</nowiki>

[09:49] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: "tm" :)</nowiki>

[09:50] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: soo bette ronly open the can of carrots:)</nowiki>

[09:50] JB Hancroft<nowiki>: time for me to head out... enjoyed it.... thanks. take care, all :)</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: o/</nowiki>

[09:50] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: oh and also llMessageLinkedTo( "script name".. would be amazing, I would bet many objects ussing linked_message are firing more than needed</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm. Interesting idea.</nowiki>

[09:51] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i want that!</nowiki>

[09:51] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Me too!</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sounds like it needs a jira then.</nowiki>

[09:51] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: that would be a very big win</nowiki>

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I make it if I figure out how</nowiki>

[09:52] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: IM me and ill help you or write the jira for you if you cant figure it out</nowiki>

[09:53] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i walso want ShareScriptMemoryWith("scriptname"); so i dont need to use link message to deliver tata from script to another</nowiki>

[09:53] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i also*</nowiki>

[09:53] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: -typos*</nowiki>

[09:54] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: brother.</nowiki>

[09:55] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I'd like a llLoadScriptUUID(key); tht loaded a script even if it was not in the region as longs as it was copyable.</nowiki>

[09:56] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: that would be cool too, especially if we could still change the script without the UUID changing</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Unfortunately assets don't contain permissions, inventory does, so there is no way to determine copyability</nowiki>

[09:57] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: If it were somewhere inworld and had been marked as exportable?</nowiki>

[09:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: The Idea is to keep from having to have a copy of a dynamically loadabe script in the same region.</nowiki>

[09:58] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: This sounds convuluted, honestly.</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: yeah. What people really want is better version control and better update abilities for scripts.</nowiki>

[09:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: on a Prim owned by the loader even.</nowiki>

[09:59] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: it just sounds like an extension of remoteloadscript pin for intersim</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't think that is the easiest or clearest way to get that.</nowiki>

[09:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yes in essence</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Lifting the region limit on llRemoteLoadScriptPin() would be start.</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: the problem with remote load script is that you have to own the prim from which the script is loaded</nowiki>

[10:00] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: or a script editor which dont mark wrong at copy paste or do tabs right</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That would be a complete overhaul of how remoteloadscript works.</nowiki>

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I'm missing something or anyone can try every pin till it works in you prim with that system?</nowiki>

[10:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: ...And on all object to object transfers, while you're at it... :P</nowiki>

[10:00] Object<nowiki>: Touched.</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Heh.</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay, times up. Thanks everyone for coming.</nowiki>

[10:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: No the script has to be marked as exportable just like in remoteload...</nowiki>

[10:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: With 4+ billions pins and 1 second delay... Good luck!</nowiki>

[10:01] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: thanks kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx Kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: then it can be no mod</nowiki>

[10:01] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Check out my hud demo if you haven't, and if you make a cool html hud I'd love to see it: </nowiki>https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/HTML_HUD_Demo

[10:01] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:01] NeoBokrug Elytis<nowiki>: That was a cool HUD Kelly</nowiki>

[10:02] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I'll talk with my firends and se if w cn cup up with an Idea for next week or the week after... Perhaps even a JIRA.</nowiki>

[10:02] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: tnanks kelly and charlar please take a peek on your im tabs:)</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 08 15

2012-01-10T17:56:05Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Cale Flanagan |- |Fancy Greeter |- |flexi campfire</font…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Cale Flanagan
|-
|Fancy Greeter
|-
|flexi campfire
|-
|Helena Lycia
|-
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|-
|WolfGang Senizen
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:02] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Hey kelly.</nowiki>

[09:02] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[09:02] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Hiya Kelly</nowiki>

[09:02] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hello...</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Good morning</nowiki>

[09:03] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Oooh a chart</nowiki>

[09:03] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: may i ask, i was searching for transcripts in the wiki.... and the archive lead me to mesh archive...</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: How was everyone's weekend?</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I have a large backlog of transcripts I have been meaning to upload.</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sorry.</nowiki>

[09:03] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: so there is hope, good:)</nowiki>

[09:04] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: was only irritated to find me in mesh:)</nowiki>

[09:04] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Spent most of it trying to track down a bug with llRegionSayTo - not sure if it is a real bug yet, still need to repro it</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Helena point me or Simon to the jira once you have a repro</nowiki>

[09:05] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Will do</nowiki>

[09:05] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Was hoping to have done it in time for here but got distracted by Google+</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Any go to SLCC, physically or virtually?</nowiki>

[09:05] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I saw the web feed of Rod's speach</nowiki>

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I don't actually remember what I watched from the live stream yesterday.</nowiki>

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: "memorable" I guess.</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Anyway! Welcome to the content creators user group, scripting meeting.</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: News up first.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The chart behind me shows the sim performance improvement grid wide for "DRTSIM-75" which was the simulator / scripting performance fixes that went out a couple of weeks ago.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is always nice to be able to see a visible improvement.</nowiki>

[09:08] RaithSphere Enyo Darkstone (raithsphere.enyo)<nowiki>: thtas site a difference</nowiki>

[09:08] RaithSphere Enyo Darkstone (raithsphere.enyo)<nowiki>: *quite</nowiki>

[09:08] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I'm gettting transparency issues from the prim behind it</nowiki>

[09:09] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Thanks</nowiki>

[09:09] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Umm whats with the giant dip</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: neither is transparent. hm</nowiki>

[09:09] RaithSphere Enyo Darkstone (raithsphere.enyo)<nowiki>: PNG Transparancy</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: release day is just wonky</nowiki>

[09:09] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: the texture has alpha channel, use TGA next time</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: ah. my screenshot tool does png, I'll have to convert it</nowiki>

[09:10] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: png works fine for me..- normally</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I dunno why a screenshot tool would add transparency to a desktop screenshot</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: anyway</nowiki>

[09:11] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: aero?:)</nowiki>

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Moving on</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: On the BlueSteel channel this week is the Scripting Maintenance which has a bunch of scripting features and another set of performance improvements.</nowiki>

[09:12] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ?</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I don't see Moon here, so I hope she doesn't mind but I'm gonna quote the jira comment she made this morning</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: This server version can handle double the amount of scripts, compared to pre-mono2 versions.</nowiki>

<nowiki>A very impressive result, this is a major breakthrough.</nowiki>

[09:13] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: wow</nowiki>

[09:13] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: neat</nowiki>

[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yeah... Interesting...</nowiki>

[09:13] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Yikes. Does that mean I'll have to write twice as many scripts now?</nowiki>

[09:13] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: also the new LSL stuff is awesome. Even my most negative friend was stunned and jumped in joy</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is a 3-4x improvement over current versions, if she stated that right, since the current server seems to be doing around half what pre-mono2 did</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Her comment is here: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-120

[09:14] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#SCR-120] Idle scripts still take server time</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 11k idle scripts / 19k sleeping scripts.</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Honestly though her tests found results much higher than mine did. I only saw ~8-9k idle</nowiki>

[09:16] Sammy (ayamo.nozaki)<nowiki>: P:</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Which is still a few thousand more than reported for pre-mono2 (5-6k idle)</nowiki>

[09:17] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: so, will this go grid wide this week?</nowiki>

[09:17] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: If not I'll cry</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It is a good possibility. There are some high priority fixes that may get first shot, but as of right now the script maintenance is looking good for it.</nowiki>

[09:18] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Woo.</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And we wouldn't want to make flip cry</nowiki>

[09:18] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Especially since tomorrow's my birthday. Scripting maintenance would be a great gift</nowiki>

[09:18] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Gyahahhah ooooh</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: heh</nowiki>

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think that is all I have as far as news goes.'</nowiki>

[09:19] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Wondering... Mesh test sims will pick up the scripting maintenance stuff, too? if it goes to general release, I mean.</nowiki>

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yes, if the script maintenance gets promoted it should be on all regions by the end of the week.</nowiki>

[09:20] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: cool</nowiki>

[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yay!</nowiki>

[09:20] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: wohoo</nowiki>

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: And for anyone not up to date, the release notes for the script maintenance are here: </nowiki>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/BlueSteel<nowiki>#11.08.10.238207</nowiki>

[09:21] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: the performance degradation drop is very goo</nowiki>

[09:23] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: so all the things on that page for the 11.08.10 are going to be coming to the main grid tomorrow?</nowiki>

[09:23] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Yeah, this release is just full of crunchy goodness!</nowiki>

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: indeed, NOM NOM NOM</nowiki>

[09:23] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Hopefully it will</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, any super hot issues before we start triage?</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: When will we get slice in prim params?</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: ...If ever...</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Not soon.</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide<nowiki>&requestId=14052</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: First up looks like SCR-98</nowiki>

[09:27] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-98

<nowiki>[#SCR-98] Scripts not loaded create script errors when interacted with</nowiki>

[09:27] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: is there a chance we may see a function to change the frequancy of a sound?</nowiki>

[09:27] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: like, to make a better engine?</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Brins0 I haven't seen any requests like that pass my radar before. If you want to write up some details in an SCR jira we can take a look.</nowiki>

[09:28] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: i'll add it at some point then</nowiki>

[09:28] Dantee Eliot (dantee.soulstar)<nowiki>: What about PRIM_SOUND in llSetLinkPrimitiveParams?</nowiki>

[09:28] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: i'm surprised it's not been brought up before</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right. Today is triage day. Next monday is bring-your-own topics / general discussion. I'd file a jira if you can't find one that already exists, or comment on an existing one and bring it next week.</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-98</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Any opinions?</nowiki>

[09:30] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i think i hit on this once. could not repro, but this is the only reason i can imagine that would have caused the error</nowiki>

[09:30] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Seems like this is indeed a serious , if transent, issue</nowiki>

[09:31] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that happens sometimes in homestead sims</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hrm. Okay. I'll add it to the backlog. It may not be too hard with some of the other recent mono changes.</nowiki>

[09:31] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: I've never encountered it in the wild before, but never tested for it either.</nowiki>

[09:31] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: and it explains some odditys that occurr on login</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-26</nowiki>

[09:31] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-26

<nowiki>[#SCR-26] llGetAnimation constant transparency</nowiki>

[09:32] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I happened to me, in homestead sims when something is just rezzed</nowiki>

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: A documentation request?</nowiki>

[09:32] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Hold on...gotta wait 20 minutes to connect to google-analytics ?.(?)</nowiki>

[09:32] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Looks like it...</nowiki>

[09:33] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I must admit, I've wondered if there are some undocumented retrun values from that</nowiki>

[09:33] Sammy (ayamo.nozaki)<nowiki>: ?(????) google y u so slow?</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'll do that one just to close it</nowiki>

[09:33] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: " it's essentially impossible for the community to do this definitively."</nowiki>

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-64</nowiki>

[09:33] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-64

<nowiki>[#SCR-64] llKey2Name returns avatar names with double space between first and last (sometimes)</nowiki>

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Sometimes it;s easier to look at the source code...</nowiki>

[09:34] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: That seems pretty bad...</nowiki>

[09:34] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: We can't expect google to mine our personal information in a timely manner</nowiki>

[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Never seen...</nowiki>

[09:34] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: not seen it either.</nowiki>

[09:34] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: But I have never seen it.</nowiki>

[09:35] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: me neither</nowiki>

[09:35] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i have not seen it eiter, but it would surely breaka pile of content</nowiki>

[09:35] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: For the record by display name actually has 2 spaces between each letter...but as far as that JIRA, no never seen it either</nowiki>

[09:35] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: my*</nowiki>

[09:35] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I think I saw that once... when I was working on the llSensorRepeat issue</nowiki>

[09:35] Fancy Greeter<nowiki>: Charlar Linden has arrived!</nowiki>

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I actually think we've cleaned up that code since the last comment. I'm gonna ask for more info to see if it is still happening</nowiki>

[09:36] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Hello Charlar</nowiki>

[09:36] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: hi all!</nowiki>

[09:36] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: I wonder if, when it happens, it only happens of "Resident"s (or if it makes a difference)</nowiki>

[09:36] exNeko Kohime (exneko.andel)<nowiki>: Nice outfit.</nowiki>

[09:37] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: afternoon</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Possible flip.</nowiki>

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-93</nowiki>

[09:37] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-93

<nowiki>[#SCR-93] llDetectedType() does not return AGENT for avatars sitting on objects</nowiki>

[09:37] Charlie (charlar.linden)<nowiki>: sigh, wish ambleside was mesh enabled.</nowiki>

[09:37] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: :p</nowiki>

[09:38] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Tons of problems are caused by sitting avatars ?.(?)</nowiki>

[09:38] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: fix this one please, it is annoying</nowiki>

[09:39] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: it's kinda a bigger issue, though, as Strife points out in the comments</nowiki>

[09:39] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: there is workaround, but i rather waste limited juice to something else in the script</nowiki>

[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Yeah, annoying at the least</nowiki>

[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Actually I believe the behavior currently is as designed</nowiki>

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Collisions always detect the root prim, which for sitting avatars is the object they are on.</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm trying to refresh my memory on the collision system.</nowiki>

[09:41] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: hmm, not sure, but i think it might affect to other llDetectedType things, maybe even sensor. cant remember</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I think you can still find sitting agents with llSensor</nowiki>

[09:41] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: That's correct</nowiki>

[09:42] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: find, yes, but then to get proper flag for detectedType might be wrong</nowiki>

[09:42] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:42] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: as sometimes we want to sense agents and objects in same sense call, and then separate them</nowiki>

[09:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: This is true, because GM weapons uses llSensor to detect who they are near ad they work on sitting avatars</nowiki>

[09:43] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly I'm just reading the script with the SCR-98, it does llResetOtherScript() and llSetScriptState() right the next line, and only happened in a homestand, never in a normal sim</nowiki>

[09:43] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: right. I mean, the most consistent thing would be to return multiple num_detected for collision with a seated avatar, but god only knows how much existing content that would break.</nowiki>

[09:43] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: llResetOtherScript() and llSetScriptState() to a not loaded script in state_entry, that is</nowiki>

[09:44] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: it would't break properly scripted items (that itterste across num_detected</nowiki>

[09:44] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: ill experiment with this one and see if it affects to other llDetected thingies</nowiki>

[09:44] Object<nowiki>: Flip Idlemind is of type AGENT PASSIVE</nowiki>

[09:45] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: But Im trying to be more assertive</nowiki>

[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: so sensors still count agents found as type agent</nowiki>

[09:45] Object<nowiki>: Hello, Avatar!</nowiki>

[09:45] Sammy (ayamo.nozaki)<nowiki>: yes</nowiki>

[09:45] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: AGENT_PASSIVE_AGRESSIVE</nowiki>

[09:45] Object<nowiki>: Flip Idlemind is of type AGENT PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE</nowiki>

[09:46] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: This is how rumors start</nowiki>

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: SCR-94</nowiki>

[09:46] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-94

<nowiki>[#SCR-94] llVolumeDetect collision_start/collision_end undependable</nowiki>

[09:47] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: This has always been the case</nowiki>

[09:48] Brins0 (brins0.blackheart)<nowiki>: I've been affected by this in the past too</nowiki>

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Since the jira is nearly 3 years old, that is probable.</nowiki>

[09:48] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: I had had to implement workarounds that force collisions to fire off again. Such as changing some parameter of the prim to do so.</nowiki>

[09:48] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: yeah. dunno how possible it is to fix, though.</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: llVolumeDetect is a tricky beast</nowiki>

[09:50] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: If it can be fixed, it should be</nowiki>

[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We are asking the physics engine to do something it really doesn't want to do</nowiki>

[09:51] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: for physics?:)</nowiki>

[09:51] Sammy (ayamo.nozaki)<nowiki>: report collisions to something nonphysical</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: One of the primary jobs of the physics engine is to keep things from interpenetrating.</nowiki>

[09:51] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Speculation: is it detecting another surfce crossing the volume boundries</nowiki>

[09:52] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: tht is anoter surface of the bounding box?</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I can import this as it seems legitimate, however it is unlikely to get much attention.</nowiki>

[09:52] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: metaphysics</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: s/import/acknowledge</nowiki>

[09:53] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: also when using VolumeDetect cause object to be pushed a bit, I wonder if there is any to improve efficiency there</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Maybe, I don't really know.</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Next is SCR-108 probably the last we have time for.</nowiki>

[09:54] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-108

<nowiki>[#SCR-108] llRezObject() fails when owner not present</nowiki>

[09:54] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: you seen this happen lately Leonel? i have seen it isn the past, but not lately. i think it is maybe fixed</nowiki>

[09:55] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Liisa, I didn't test lately no</nowiki>

[09:55] WolfGang Senizen<nowiki>: i experianced this about a year ago</nowiki>

[09:55] WolfGang Senizen<nowiki>: but havent since</nowiki>

[09:55] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: I'm glad then, I'll start to use it again :)</nowiki>

[09:56] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Isn't this the same issue that I queried last week? That the documentation in the wiki wasn't clear?</nowiki>

[09:56] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Perhaps we could let people do some testing and then readdress it next triage?</nowiki>

[09:56] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: llRezObject() fails on land that is set to group only</nowiki>

[09:56] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: And the owner of the group is in the same group, but not on sim</nowiki>

[09:56] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: But when they are on sim, it rezzes</nowiki>

[09:56] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Unless the owner is in the same sim or a child agent thereof</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yeah this is expected behavior</nowiki>

[09:57] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: seems to be the same issue than last week</nowiki>

[09:57] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Which was just a documentation problem</nowiki>

[09:57] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: That's the only reproducable case I've seen of rez failing</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Okay.</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 3 minutes left.</nowiki>

[09:58] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: i would kill for scr-21 :)</nowiki>

[09:58] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-21

<nowiki>[#SCR-21] llResetOtherScript() will not reset other scripts that have stack-heaped</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: or the llResetOnCrash() flag</nowiki>

[09:59] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i would kill anyone using script to reset bugged script instead of fixing the bugged script</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: if it is easier, now that we are going to work more with the limits with the new memory limit function</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Liisa, LL may change something to use more memory in the future.. like it happened in the past</nowiki>

[09:59] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it's not always bugs</nowiki>

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: it just happen when user managed data</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: sometimes it's external bugs, or odd events</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: There are more features now to detect memory usage and hopefully prevent stack heap collisions</nowiki>

[10:00] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: yea, LL breaks stuff, we just have to adapt, not wrap a boken script in duct tape</nowiki>

[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: duct tape is a useful tool</nowiki>

[10:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: ans is bailing wire</nowiki>

[10:01] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: Still seems like llResetOtherScript()'s job is to reset other scripts, that should apply even (or, especially) when the script needs to be reset because of stack heap collision</nowiki>

[10:01] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: orbit is usefull toool too when someoen is spamming script errors</nowiki>

[10:01] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: well if ind it usefull, bec memory chekcing isnt easy, we will see wht the new function makes possible, but if i delete in a list it can axplode and i dont know how to forsee that exctly</nowiki>

[10:01] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: Well... there is llRemoteLoadScriptPin()... which might get a freshly reset script into the prim, if you've got another prim and some patience.</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: lols</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: that is a nifty hack, that should not be required</nowiki>

[10:02] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: also I'm sure we are going to see a lot more crashed objects now.. we never needed a way to work in the memory limits before.. and that is trouble for no mod objects</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, thank you all for coming. Next week is general discussion. Have a good week everyone.</nowiki>

[10:03] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: thanks everybody</nowiki>

[10:03] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: thanks Kelly.</nowiki>

[10:03] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx Kelly</nowiki>

[10:03] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: See you, Kelly & Charlie.</nowiki>

[10:03] Ash DeAllura Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly</nowiki>

[10:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: thanks kelly and Charlar</nowiki>

[10:03] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: is there a my list uses x bytes memory function? that woulod help in detectig that</nowiki>

[10:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: llGetListSize( (list) foo)</nowiki>

[10:04] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: or a enough space todo delte function?</nowiki>

[10:04] Cale Flanagan<nowiki>: thats count not byte?</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It looks like llRezObject has the right caveats for group land in it.</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: (in the wiki)</nowiki>

Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 08 08

2012-01-10T17:55:54Z

Kelly Linden: Created page with "== List of Speakers == {| |Aleric Inglewood |Andrew Linden |- |Fancy Greeter…"

== List of Speakers ==
{|
|Aleric Inglewood
|Andrew Linden
|-
|Fancy Greeter
|flexi campfire
|-
|Helena Lycia
|Leonel Iceghost
|-
|Liisa Runo
|Mastorian Kingsford
|-
|Pauline Darkfury
|Roberto Salubrius
|-
|Siana Gearz
|}

== Transcript ==
[09:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Nothing impossible for LL... -.-</nowiki>

[09:00] Mastorian Kingsford<nowiki>: up to 2.7 i loved the viewerss</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I don't think there's anything regarding the UI like from v1 to v2.</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: I think it's just for the mesh movement.</nowiki>

[09:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: well it depends on of they're just playing name games or what</nowiki>

[09:00] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: The viewer tag databases and whatnot will have to be updated</nowiki>

[09:00] Roberto Salubrius<nowiki>: it could have an ultrabasic mode, where... no idea it launches an app that places SL in a flash plugin in your browser</nowiki>

[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: 'ello Kelly.</nowiki>

[09:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Hello...</nowiki>

[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hello</nowiki>

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: if V3.0 is really V 2.8.x then *shrugs*</nowiki>

[09:01] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: hello kelly</nowiki>

[09:01] Roberto Salubrius<nowiki>: aup</nowiki>

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Namtase Kelly</nowiki>

[09:01] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Hiya Kelly</nowiki>

[09:02] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Hi folks :)</nowiki>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Kelly is lost in a ton of opened windows</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Well good morning. :)</nowiki>

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Hope everyone had a good weekend.</nowiki>

[09:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: 50E6 IM</nowiki>

[09:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: There was a weekend!? ?.(?)</nowiki>

[09:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Good for some vale of good</nowiki>

[09:03] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Yes, but then someone hit the week reset button</nowiki>

[09:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Then they rolled in Monday :(</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: All right, lets get started then.</nowiki>

[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: News first.</nowiki>

[09:04] Siana Gearz<nowiki>: many bugs on Magnum? :P</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The "scripting maintenance" project has been looking good on aditi and I think is likely to get an RC this week.</nowiki>

[09:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Yay!</nowiki>

[09:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: woot</nowiki>

[09:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: :o</nowiki>

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Magnum has Mesh right now - I'd jump to their User Group later today to bring up bugs there.</nowiki>

[09:05] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: so does LeTiger</nowiki>

[09:05] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: magnum and le tigre</nowiki>

[09:05] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: jinx</nowiki>

[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yup. Mesh RC, Mesh_RC, Magnum and LeTigre all have mesh based code.</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Which only leaves BlueSteel which has the latest server maintenance project on it. I haven't been watching closely but I don't see any new issues filed against it so maybe it will get promoted this week.</nowiki>

[09:07] Kichi (kichi.flux)<nowiki>: o:</nowiki>

[09:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Do you know if Mesh will alos get promoted?</nowiki>

[09:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: also*</nowiki>

[09:07] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: I've got 3 or 4 BlueSteel regions, all seems to have been smooth on them</nowiki>

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I'm pretty sure mesh is not ready to be promoted this week, but I'm not 100% on that.</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We only ever promote 1 thing at a time, so it will be Bluesteel (server maintenance) OR Mesh OR nothing.</nowiki>

[09:08] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: I'd be extremely unhappy to see mesh promoted this week, tbh</nowiki>

[09:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: nods Will it at leasr stay on Magnum and LeTigre?</nowiki>

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It will stay on 1 at least, I dunno which.</nowiki>

[09:09] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: PE calculations aren't ready for public consumption...</nowiki>

[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It will only stay on 2 if we don't have other things to put in RC.</nowiki>

[09:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: ahhh, OK</nowiki>

[09:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: PE?</nowiki>

[09:10] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Prim Equivalence</nowiki>

[09:10] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Prim Equivalence</nowiki>

[09:10] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: Prim Equivalence</nowiki>

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Prim Equivalence</nowiki>

[09:10] RaithSphere Enyo Darkstone (raithsphere.enyo)<nowiki>: Prim Equivlance</nowiki>

[09:10] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Yup, there's a fair number of folks in the Concierge group that are a bit horrified at the risk of mass-return of innocent objects if someone goofs when editing a mesh object</nowiki>

[09:10] Siana Gearz<nowiki>: should i chime in or it is too late?</nowiki>

[09:10] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: 5 way jinx</nowiki>

[09:10] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: (or if a griefer makes use of it)</nowiki>

[09:11] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: It's also a fairly complex number which I think's going to confuse a lot of people</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: one would hope that only the changed objext would get tossed back, or the changes would jut be disallowed</nowiki>

[09:11] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Confusion is Second Life's middle name...</nowiki>

[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Ppl will lose up to their prim hair, trying to find heads and tails</nowiki>

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: just</nowiki>

[09:11] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: right now, the changed object can possibly stay, kicking off unrelated objects owned by other people</nowiki>

[09:12] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i read for somewere in the wiki that LL is planning to get the latest edited item being returned instead of the newe'st to prevent this problem</nowiki>

[09:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Well that is a huge showstopper. Has anyne actually seen this occur?</nowiki>

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It works in this order: We first attempt to block all actions if they would make us go over. However if we still end up over we return the last thing that changed. If we are *still* over (honestly I think this requires you cuting up and selling part of your parcel) then we do the same autoreturn that happens pre-mesh if you end up over the limit.</nowiki>

[09:12] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I haven't dared try it on my sim</nowiki>

[09:12] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I don't want to see my home in ruins</nowiki>

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you have repros that cause the wrong things to get returned please do file some jiras.</nowiki>

[09:13] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: OK, so the behaivior is predictable and basically unchanged from the past.</nowiki>

[09:13] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: If the example given at Friday's OH is accurate (given by Latif, I think), there's a case where a no-mesh prim object can bloat to 10x PE approx, that's potentially 2500-ish prims suddenly appearing on your quota in the worst case</nowiki>

[09:14] Mastorian Kingsford<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: What makes it tricky is that for mesh objects, the objects can change their cost dynamically in some situations (such as rescaling). Which adds a new exciting edge case that we have attempted to cover.</nowiki>

[09:14] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I've seen a greater than 10x increase</nowiki>

[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: at which point (see above) ith change would be disallowed.</nowiki>

[09:14] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: started with a 25 prim object and link a 2 PE mesh to it and the resultant object was 450 PE</nowiki>

[09:14] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Fancy trying that link experiment with a 200 prim object, Helena? ;)</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The non-mesh object bloated because he opted-in to the new accounting by changing some of the physics parameters - but not enough of them to optimize the content.</nowiki>

[09:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: That would be due to the 'size' change?</nowiki>

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: basically don't do that.</nowiki>

[09:15] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: No thanks</nowiki>

[09:15] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: There was no size change but it limits the use of meshes in vehicles</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Quirina: please file jiras. :) I can't act on notecards.</nowiki>

[09:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: I think the the PE math needs to be clearly explained.</nowiki>

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: * cough cough* Can we go back to scripts now... This isn't mesh UG.</nowiki>

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: :) Yes. Lets jump back to scripts.</nowiki>

[09:16] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Yeah, that's later</nowiki>

[09:16] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I have a question someone might be able to help me with</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Mesh UG is in 2.75 hours from now.</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Today is open discussion and I'm done with news.</nowiki>

[09:17] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: The bit that has me and other Concierge folks very concerned over it is not what we might do ourselves, but what a nooby tenant might do with an object that has an older rez date (so newer stuff could well get evicted), particularly where the rental is via a sim-wide land group</nowiki>

[09:17] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I was setting up a scripted rezzer and fell foul of the cavaets listed in the wiki</nowiki>

[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: any updaet on when llCastRay() will be enabled?</nowiki>

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Pauline: that shouldn't happen.</nowiki>

[09:17] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: However I think there's a caveat not listed</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kallista: no update. I think sometime after mesh ships probably.</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Helena: oh?</nowiki>

[09:18] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Kelly, that's not the impression I got from Andrew</nowiki>

[09:18] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I'm not sure whether to file a JIRA about it though because the caveat seems sensible</nowiki>

[09:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Thanks</nowiki>

[09:18] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Yes, the caveats about the owner of the object having to be online</nowiki>

[09:18] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Kelly, How much do you think llCastRay() will affect combat games in SL?</nowiki>

[09:18] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: helena was it group owned land</nowiki>

[09:18] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: It seemed that not only did I have to be online but in the same sim (or as a child agent of the sim)</nowiki>

[09:18] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Anyway, yes, don't want to derail this session from scripts</nowiki>

[09:18] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Yes</nowiki>

[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Nal: I don't know since I don't program combat games in SL. It all depends on how it is used.</nowiki>

[09:18] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: yeah thats why</nowiki>

[09:19] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: But if I was online more more than 1 sim away the thing stoppe dworking</nowiki>

[09:19] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Fair enough.</nowiki>

[09:19] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: if the parcel is set to group, and the owner has a prim not set to group it cant rez when they are offline</nowiki>

[09:19] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Which isn't a listed caveat</nowiki>

[09:19] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: LIsten</nowiki>

[09:19] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I was online</nowiki>

[09:19] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: But not in a nearby sim</nowiki>

[09:19] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I KNOW about being online</nowiki>

[09:19] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Are you talking set-to-group or group-owned parcels?</nowiki>

[09:19] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: hmm, odd</nowiki>

[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Old bug...</nowiki>

[09:20] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: The object was rezed and set to group but not deeded (I later got it deeded)</nowiki>

[09:20] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: But the thing stopped working when I wasn't on the sim or an adjacent sim, which is what I wasn't expecting</nowiki>

[09:20] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: castray is likely going to be used in situations like rendering blood spatters behind people when shooting them, or ensuring when you lie mines they don't go under the prim and thus 'hide'. It's unlikely you're going to see Linden-combat use llcastray in weapons for weapons fire, because of the whole thing about bullets having a velocity rule and likely sims don't want to see lasers everywhere that you zero chance of dodging or see.</nowiki>

[09:20] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: group roles have never worked properly for scripts when the object owner is not in-sim, as far as I'm aware (and don't really work anyway other than to avoid autoreturn on set-to-group land)</nowiki>

[09:21] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: So does anyone know anything about this? Should the wiki be updated with a new caveat or is this a bug?</nowiki>

[09:21] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: it needs to be understood properly before being listed as a caveat i would think</nowiki>

[09:21] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: i would say it is a bug</nowiki>

[09:21] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Sounds possibly like expected behaviour, tbh</nowiki>

[09:22] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: In terms of group roles not being expected to work for scripts</nowiki>

[09:22] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: That's what I suspect but it's not documented behaviour</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you rely on group roles for the ability to rez then you will need to be online.</nowiki>

[09:22] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I could see it being implemented for additional anti-griefer protection (although it's still annoying)</nowiki>

[09:22] RaithSphere Enyo Darkstone (raithsphere.enyo)<nowiki>: I am curious whats the situation with the ability to set how much memory a script uses?</nowiki>

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If you can see into the region then you have a 'child agent' there and will count as online to that region.</nowiki>

[09:23] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: also object to object inv transfer fail when owner of sender object is not nearby. prolly related bug</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Otherwise it doesn't count. So it isn't that you have to be online it is that you must be 'in the region' for group role permission checks to succeed.</nowiki>

[09:23] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Yup, it's not just being online, you have to be visible to the region running the script</nowiki>

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is a general caveat of group roles.</nowiki>

[09:23] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Kelly are you saying that "online" actually means online in that region (or a child agent of that region)?</nowiki>

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: For group roles you must be in the region or have a child agent in the region</nowiki>

[09:24] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Because the wiki doesn't say that</nowiki>

[09:24] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Helena, either in the region (or having only just left it), or very close to it in an adjacent region</nowiki>

[09:24] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: here's a relevant reference (from llGetParcelPrimOwners jira, long ago): </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-25?focusedCommentId=35361<nowiki>&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-35361</nowiki>

[09:24] flexi campfire<nowiki>: [#SVC-25] llGetParcelPrimOwners() only works when the script owner is in sim and shortly there after.</nowiki>

[09:24] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: I think the llRezObject and llRezAtRoot wiki pages need updating then</nowiki>

[09:24] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: i can update the wiki if you like</nowiki>

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That would be helpful.</nowiki>

[09:25] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: It might help others (in my case I was able to get my rezzer deeded so no problem)</nowiki>

[09:25] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly, I've been watching lag when people play some games, and one of the problems is that they seem to have 3, 4, 5 things taking controls.. so even in well controled sims when 20 people move at the same time there are 2000-3000 script events per second</nowiki>

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: The rezzing bug: SVC-3793</nowiki>

[09:25] flexi campfire<nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3793

<nowiki>[#SVC-3793] "Always allow 'Create Objects'" only applies to object-rezzing scripts when owner is online within same sim</nowiki>

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is a lot of events Leonel.</nowiki>

[09:26] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Doesn't deeding it to group still work?</nowiki>

[09:26] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: even if they only have if(changed) else return.. it is more than 2000 integer comparison per second just for scripts.. without counting the events "preparation"</nowiki>

[09:26] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: that sort of event rate is going to start hurting your region a lot!</nowiki>

[09:26] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly, that's not a lot, 25 events 4 attachemnts 20 avatar.. its the usual</nowiki>

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: sadly</nowiki>

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Regardless of how it happens or how common - 2k-3k events per second is a lot.</nowiki>

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: if you can make a "control_changed" event instead, it may fix a part of the lag in those games, most script only do stuff when some key change actually</nowiki>

[09:28] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: just by pressint the mouse.. which is common in most games, it raises fast eps</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: That is an interesting idea.</nowiki>

[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I thought adding new events was a no-no...</nowiki>

[09:28] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: yeah, I like the sound of that, the control event has always struck me as being kinda horrible in terms of activity compared to what's actually needed</nowiki>

[09:28] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: might also finally be time for llAllowThisScriptToRunInNoScriptParcelsWithoutWastingResourcesToTakeControls();</nowiki>

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: basically a 'control_start'/'control_end' kind of pattern like touches.</nowiki>

[09:28] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: They added a new event, http_request (I think?) not too long ago (I think?)</nowiki>

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that would make a difference kelly</nowiki>

[09:29] Fancy Greeter<nowiki>: Andrew Linden has arrived!</nowiki>

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We are limited to 64 events. I think we are around 30 now.</nowiki>

[09:29] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Heh, I just want the control event to recognise when the Home key is pressed *giggles*</nowiki>

[09:29] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Hiay Andrew</nowiki>

[09:29] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: hmmm... maybe alternatively, change the kind of control events to which they subscribe... so it could still be the same control() event, but only generated on leading / trailing edge, if that's what they ask for.</nowiki>

[09:29] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: More keys is another wish on the list.</nowiki>

[09:29] F L I P (flip.idlemind)<nowiki>: What makes you limited to 64 events :O</nowiki>

[09:30] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Hi Andrew :)</nowiki>

[09:30] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)<nowiki>: Oh hey Andrew.</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Adding new keys to the control event is far more difficult</nowiki>

[09:30] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Hello. I've been meaning to attend this UG. Thought I would drop in for the last half.</nowiki>

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: For legacy LSL - the events are registered in a unsigned-64 bit integer.</nowiki>

[09:30] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: But it would help greatly with multi-mode vehicles, like simulation walking and flying</nowiki>

[09:31] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: any single key you can add, it would be great.. at least R for reload :P</nowiki>

[09:31] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: yes, being able to specify when we actually want to see a control event could well work on top of the existing one</nowiki>

[09:31] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: llControlChangesOnly(TRUE);</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Unfortunately we really can't add *any* with a significant overhaul of how SL in general handles keys and movement.</nowiki>

[09:31] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: that sounds nice too Pauline</nowiki>

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: without*</nowiki>

[09:31] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: or llTakeControlEdges()</nowiki>

[09:32] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: edges, who invented that variable name!</nowiki>

[09:32] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: You can sort of detect Ctrl+R ising llGetAgentInfo... unless tap-tap-hold-to-run is enabled</nowiki>

[09:33] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: the name edges pretty much comes from terminology for things like clock & data signals</nowiki>

[09:34] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Easier to just use a gesture that does a say on some specific script channel.</nowiki>

[09:34] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: oh ok, as a non english speaker, that word confused me a lot when learning lsl</nowiki>

[09:34] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Not really when you've actually operating the vehicle</nowiki>

[09:35] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Why not?</nowiki>

[09:35] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: The alpha ordering bug stops me from seeing the display at the front :/</nowiki>

[09:35] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: gestures are not really secure also.. you open your channel for any griefer to send 1000k llRegionSay there.. and crash you</nowiki>

[09:35] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: If you're trying to get a vehicle to emulate standard SL movement then the Ctrl+R and Home keys are intuitive ket actions</nowiki>

[09:36] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: turn on Fast Alpha, Aleric</nowiki>

[09:36] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: how?</nowiki>

[09:36] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Oh, not sure if Singularity has it, but check in Advanced->Rendering for it</nowiki>

[09:36] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Leonel, what's so difficult about setting up a llisten exclusively to the pilot's avatar?</nowiki>

[09:36] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Why because I'm using a vehicle should I suddenly not be able to use the Home key to start flying, when I can use the Home key when I'm not using a vehicle?</nowiki>

[09:36] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: k, works :)</nowiki>

[09:37] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Ash, sometimes users want your script to crash..</nowiki>

[09:37] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Leonel, so, how would it crash the script that listens to the pilot only again?</nowiki>

[09:37] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: the pilot is the user..</nowiki>

[09:37] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: There's something wrong with your script if 1000k llRegionSays crash it</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Pauline, ok..</nowiki>

[09:38] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: i beleive the event queue is.. 64 events. Right Kelly?</nowiki>

[09:38] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Is that true? 100k llRegionSay()'s will crash something? Maybe it should be throttled.</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: you can crash it in different ways</nowiki>

[09:38] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: All chat stuff is capped at 1023 characters, so either you've got too little memory free, or are not filtering properly, or have some other issue where you're just not processing chat properly</nowiki>

[09:38] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: there is a bug with a single character crash your script</nowiki>

[09:38] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: I'd be kinda surprised if a single object can do that may llRegionSays without hitting an existing throttle somewhere?</nowiki>

[09:39] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: just one message can crash stuff depending how the stuff is written. Badly made scripts crash, properly made dont. that is how it has always been</nowiki>

[09:39] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: I believe you can only queue up 64 events for a script at any single time at most?</nowiki>

[09:39] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: yeah ash</nowiki>

[09:39] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Yeah, I doubt the crash thing. My point was purely for a standard user interface. if I can fly by pressing the Home key, then why can't a vehicle be controlled in the same way?</nowiki>

[09:39] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Yeah, 64 pending events max</nowiki>

[09:40] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: it would take a number of frames to emit that much</nowiki>

[09:40] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: a large number of frames</nowiki>

[09:40] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: and also gestures share the keys.. if you put three F1 of different games.. I wish you luck with costumer support</nowiki>

[09:40] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: you can certainly disrupt a script by chat flooding it, but I strongly believe that if you can cause it to stack/heap then the problem is bad coding</nowiki>

[09:41] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: The "Home" key is interpreted by the viewer to send "I am flying" info to the server.</nowiki>

[09:41] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: *bad coding in that individual script</nowiki>

[09:41] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Leonel, I deal with that in the SL combat scene. "Right click your my inventory folder and click detatch to ensure other gestures are removed."</nowiki>

[09:41] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: However, the state of pressed keys that control movement, and which are captured by scripts for vehicles, does not currently include the "Home" key.</nowiki>

[09:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Or just organise you bloody gestures</nowiki>

[09:41] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Gesture issues though seem more like a viewer problem than LSL though.</nowiki>

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks andrew.</nowiki>

[09:41] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: My question Andrew was, why can't it be included?</nowiki>

[09:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Mor like a user issue</nowiki>

[09:42] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: gestures are gestures.. it's not something designed to control stuff, it is a pain for the users</nowiki>

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It would require reworking how the viewer tells the server about movement and/or reworking how the control event works.</nowiki>

[09:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Mosty they just end up chatting on some channel anyway</nowiki>

[09:42] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: leonel, most of sl is not used what it is designed for</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It isn't *impossible* but it is difficult, especially if we don't want to break existing scripts.</nowiki>

[09:43] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: What about adding a bit to AgentInfo or some other function to trap it?</nowiki>

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The home key isn't sent like other keys.</nowiki>

[09:43] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Another bit in the changed()</nowiki>

[09:43] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Leonel, the fact they support script channels seems intentional to me?</nowiki>

[09:43] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Kelly, what about adding a new control event from scratch.. existing script could use the legacy one</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Leonel: that is a possibility, but clearly a non-trivial project.</nowiki>

[09:44] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Sitting/attachee user is flying not flying</nowiki>

[09:44] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: that would take a lot of viewer code to do, implimenting a new one</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Especially since we would probably want to collect as many improvements for the new version as possible.</nowiki>

[09:44] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: and server</nowiki>

[09:44] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Yeah, it's not something we want to be changing twice, if possible</nowiki>

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Yup.</nowiki>

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost<nowiki>: Yes, I undestand</nowiki>

[09:46] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Hrm... IIRC the movement keys are sent in the AgentUpdate::ControlFlags field of a UDP packet</nowiki>

[09:46] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: That UDP packet could (in theory) have data added to the end of it.</nowiki>

[09:46] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Cool?</nowiki>

[09:46] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: And that wouldn't break existing things?</nowiki>

[09:46] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: you should come to these more often andrew</nowiki>

[09:47] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That would mean that only new viewers can use the feature... Old ones would be anaware of the change.</nowiki>

[09:47] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: unaware*</nowiki>

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Correct.</nowiki>

[09:47] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Right. It could be done in a way that would not break existing stuff, but you'd need a new viewer to take advantage of it.</nowiki>

[09:48] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: thats not really an issue, forcing people to newer stuff is good, supportable</nowiki>

[09:48] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Except that resistance to V2 will be as strong for V3...</nowiki>

[09:48] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: And... there may be a problem with the server trying to read data that doesn't exist in the packet... I can't remember how that is handled off the top of my head.</nowiki>

[09:48] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: yeah, just having an easy path forwards that doesn't turn the lights out on existing stuff is the key there</nowiki>

[09:48] Mastorian Kingsford<nowiki>: lol no commit</nowiki>

[09:48] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Well LL release new viewers all the time and many TPVs are updated regularly. So as long as people coded backward compatibility into their new vehicles for people who use legacy viewers, there shouldn't be a problem</nowiki>

[09:49] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Except many TPVs haven't even implemented media on prim which has been out.. how long now?</nowiki>

[09:49] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: People just need to be clear in advertising for products, which features are requirements for them</nowiki>

[09:50] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: That's because of the excellent documentation that LL writes.</nowiki>

[09:50] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: But as it stands now, I have to code odd key combos to simulate distinguish between flying and jumping and some laptopkeyboards can't handle multiple cursor key actions properly</nowiki>

[09:50] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: If you're not happy with the wiki... Fix it! You can.</nowiki>

[09:50] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: MoaP is an unacceptable security risk for some of us, Ash (holes in Adobe Flash, etc)</nowiki>

[09:50] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Requires XP sp3 or better,</nowiki>

[09:51] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: (flash is terrible, and always will be)</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: 9 minutes left, if there are any burning questions / topics we haven't got to yet.</nowiki>

[09:51] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Top Scripts. It's much better, but times are still a bit odd, tbh</nowiki>

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Odd how?</nowiki>

[09:52] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: It's now giving what I think are realistic numbers on a lightly loaded class 5, but they seem low on a heavily loaded C5</nowiki>

[09:52] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Pauline, I can do the same with parcel media honestly. Kelly, will prim_sound for llsetlinkprimitiveparamsfast ever see day light?</nowiki>

[09:52] Mastorian Kingsford<nowiki>: what changesin the new viewers in the invintory part have been done and is their a way to turn them on and off to get the performance of say 2.7 viewer ?</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: It isn't currently on my radar Ash.</nowiki>

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Pauline: interesting.</nowiki>

[09:52] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Ash, yes, parcel media has almost the same risk, but not as severe, as it is restricted to just landowners</nowiki>

[09:53] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: I.e. an AV with 600 scripts is showing as 0.400ms-ish</nowiki>

[09:53] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: On the heavily loaded C5</nowiki>

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: I do not know Mastorian. Sorry.</nowiki>

[09:53] Mastorian Kingsford<nowiki>: are we allowed to modifi our viewers?</nowiki>

[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Pauline: that does seem pretty low.</nowiki>

[09:54] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: An IP-flood to ping you off is a lot less attractive when it hit people who visit a griefers parcel, then when they can ping off random people anywhere by just walking passed them</nowiki>

[09:54] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: You make it sound like it's impossible to turn off auto play.</nowiki>

[09:54] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: I'm also slightly concerned that the 30m average might actually be too long. E.g. an object can basically sleep for 29m, then be horrible for 1m, but be hard to spot</nowiki>

[09:55] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Mastorian, look through the Kirsten forum for more info on the inventory delay/lag thing. Kirsten says it is related to Direct Delivery being incomplete.</nowiki>

[09:55] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: The old behaviour was too spiky, no argument there, and it was tedious to have to refresh 5 times, then use Zen to interpret the numbers, but it did let us spot stuff which was spiking to high load over short periods</nowiki>

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Pauline: Hrm, that is a valid point. That length is easily adjustible.</nowiki>

[09:55] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: If I'd implement media on a prim, I'd only have implemented it for ipv6 :p. In an environment like this you really can't give out ipv4 IP# between users (unfortunately). :/</nowiki>

[09:55] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Tbh, and this needs a viewer & comms change, what we really need is 2 or 3 averages</nowiki>

[09:56] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: About detecting flying/landing in a vehicle Add two more bits to the changed() event CHANGED_FLIGHT (0X1000) and CHANGED_I(0X2000)</nowiki>

[09:56] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Something like 5s, 60s, 5m, and 30m, or something</nowiki>

[09:56] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Kelly, with regards to Mono2, do you think it's come to a sufficient point when the new memory limitation functions become supported to actually use them in bullet rounds in weapons. Or would it be better off to continue using LSO in the meantime?</nowiki>

[09:56] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: CHANGED_ISFLYING</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: We can't reasonably track that much data per script.</nowiki>

[09:56] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Yup, it would need to be done with reasonable overhead</nowiki>

[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ash: I don't really know.</nowiki>

[09:57] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Alrighty. :3</nowiki>

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The Script Maintenance branch does have some more script engine improvements.</nowiki>

[09:57] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: (Found it!) I wanted to ask if llSetContentType() will really be limited to the internal browser. That's very limitative... borderline useless.</nowiki>

[09:57] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: im sure Kelly will know later. Ask him the same question later</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Kaluura: It will.</nowiki>

[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Bleeeehhhh! Why?</nowiki>

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Sorry if that makes it useless. You can fake it by adding SecondLife to your user-agent string.</nowiki>

[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Why? Can't I just send a red "Access denied"?</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: hunh?</nowiki>

[09:59] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: You can send a 403 response with LSL HTTP-in</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Why can't I just send a red "Access denied"?</nowiki>

[09:59] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: (I think)</nowiki>

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: I mean, it would be more useful for outside browser than for the internal that pretty much nobody uses.</nowiki>

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: As Pauline says, you can detect in the script via the user-agent if they need to be blocked and just do a 403</nowiki>

[09:59] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: Kaluura is speaking about using HTML for non-Secondlife user agents I guess.</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: The intent is for HUDs and for scripts in world to be able to server HTML content to in-client browsers.</nowiki>

[10:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Right now, if I access http-in from my borwser, I can have only text.</nowiki>

[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Correct.</nowiki>

[10:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: Wow!</nowiki>

[10:00] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: right, I think the question is *why* the limitation. Why would it be bad to be able to do the same to an external browser?</nowiki>

[10:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa)<nowiki>: That isn't so uninteresting after all...</nowiki>

[10:01] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: I suspect media on prim not working by default when an attachments/hud may cause a stunt in usage for some scenarios.</nowiki>

[10:01] Ash Weststar (ash.qin)<nowiki>: *on attachments/huds</nowiki>

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Second Life servers, and LSL, make poor HTML servers to the general world. They have ugly urls and it is difficult to track down the actual owner past 'Second Life'</nowiki>

[10:02] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Yeah, it would also be useful to be able to specify the correct content type on things like JSON, XML, etc, for clean and standard-compliant integration between off-world servers that pull from SL</nowiki>

[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: If the object is in world and you are viewing it in world it is possible to get the SL owner information.</nowiki>

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: ugly URLS nice understatement</nowiki>

[10:02] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Thinking for the RPC case of an off-world app pulling data from a SL object there, nothing to do with browsers that users look at</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Right Pauline - adding those kinds of content types is not out of the question and shouldn't be too hard.</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Ok, it is past the end of the meeting.</nowiki>

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Thanks everyone for coming!</nowiki>

[10:03] Qie (qie.niangao)<nowiki>: thanks, Kelly.</nowiki>

[10:03] Liisa Runo<nowiki>: thanks everybody</nowiki>

[10:03] Programmtest<nowiki>: ohhhh again im to late -.-</nowiki>

[10:03] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: Thanks, Kelly</nowiki>

[10:03] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)<nowiki>: thanks kelly and andrew</nowiki>

[10:03] Aleric Inglewood<nowiki>: When you say "internal browser" I think that pop-up floater that is over my view to the world... then I want to use an "external" browser that I can use on another monitor... I guess I'm misunstanding here why external browsers are not considered interesting for this by LL?</nowiki>

[10:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: Thanks again Kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] Pauline Darkfury<nowiki>: And thanks, Andrew :)</nowiki>

[10:04] Helena Lycia<nowiki>: Thanks Kelly and Andrew</nowiki>

[10:04] Nal (nalates.urriah)<nowiki>: Thx Kelly</nowiki>

[10:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny)<nowiki>: and andrew</nowiki>

[10:04] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Cheers.</nowiki>

[10:04] Mastorian Kingsford<nowiki>: :)</nowiki>

[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden)<nowiki>: Aleric: I will think about that. I could possibly make it work for all browsers on your computer. It already only works on content you own. Anyway I have a busy day and must run. Thanks again everyone.</nowiki>