Second Life Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Chiyo Linden/Office Hours/Friday

2010-06-23T15:45:33Z

Nock Forager: Remove contents because of restruction. Miss you Chiyo ><

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 06 16

2010-06-16T11:14:18Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 05 19

2010-05-19T12:17:38Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[18:59] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good morning! :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[19:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let's give people a few minutes to turn up, then start

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[19:00] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|roar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[19:00] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Splash!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[19:01] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Been a long time since I've been able to attend any office hour, let alone Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[19:02] ]]
| ZenMondo Wormser:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good Morning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[19:02] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[19:02] ]]
| DrFran Babcock:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Halllooooo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[19:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|H Babbage :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[19:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Imaze, how goes? :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[19:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Gayathri :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[19:04] ]]
| Gayathri Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello! :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[19:04] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pretty good - just eating lunch same time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[19:04] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, a new one --- hi Irie, welcome to Babs' OHs :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[19:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, let's get started

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[19:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|irie's here as we were talking about bringing some of the simulator under unit test before the office hour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[19:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, would you like to introduce yourself irie?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[19:05] ]]
| Gayathri Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey irie! its late in your neck of the woods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[19:06] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi everyone, I'm Irie, a simulator developer working in SIngapore. I've been with LL since February, so I'm still new & learning the ropes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[19:06] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Welcome, Irie. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[19:06] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Greetings, Irie :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[19:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but already writing unit tests, hooray!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[19:06] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|welcome to SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[19:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[19:06] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha thanks everyone :) and it's only 6pm here, not too late

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[19:07] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Gayathri Linden knows how early irie has to get up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[19:07] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Irie Linden <3 timezones

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[19:07] ]]
| Gayathri Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:) I have th epleasure of getting to work with him on another project, he's been completely awesome

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[19:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are you part of Enus's pair of test-related teams, Irie?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[19:08] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: no, I write code, and unit tests are often best written by the developers who write the code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[19:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|+10

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[19:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all software engineers should be test related :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[19:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...and we're getting there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[19:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, what would people like to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[19:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's odd, because the prevailing wisdom is that the unit tests are best written by anyone EXCEPT the devs who write the code :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[19:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't think that's the prevailling wisdom morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat37|[19:10] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: that holds UNLESS the tests are written first :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[19:10] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# when we can see API specs? :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat39|[19:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|development should be test driven

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[19:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's useful having qa defining tests too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[19:11] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well.. you can't write flawless code - so at some point you need to stop testing and just let it go :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[19:11] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dont think tests should ever stop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[19:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but TDD makes sure that tests can be defined

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[19:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that the code is testable

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[19:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the difficulty with legacy code is that it's not designed to be testable

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[19:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it's hard to bring it under test when you want to change it without breaking it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat47|[19:12] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: Irie pointed out the key difference, ie. whether the tests are written first or not. If they're written AFTER then the prevailing wisdom is that the developers is the worst person to write them, since they'll just reflect the parts he knows he's addressed. But not in TDD, as Irie says :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[19:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's what irie and i were discussing earlier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[19:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, so irie is changing some functionality

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[19:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, can write tests that characterise the current behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[19:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then new tests that fail that test the new behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[19:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then change the code to make the new tests pass without the old tests failing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[19:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, there are a lot of subtleties involved when the current behaviour is not under test

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[19:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and so the current code hasn't been explicitly written to be testable

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[19:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bringing legacy code under test is a very interesting engineering challenge

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[19:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as often you have to make some changes to bring it under test

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[19:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which you don't want to do without having tests in place

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[19:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, there are some interesting catch 22 situations there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[19:15] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's an interesting observation Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[19:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, what did we want to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[19:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the C# API documentation was one thing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[19:16] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# was mentioned.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[19:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[19:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can talk about our C# demo development if you like

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[19:17] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what things have you done in last week? status update about scripting issues :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[19:17] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not sure if today, but I'm going to corner you on interop, one day Babbage. Because I'm getting seriously worried that your corner (scripted objects) is going to become the main barrier to VW interop.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[19:17] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have come to ask if you have an upper limit for the memory usage of a region. I have read that 300mb is an ok upper limit.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[19:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, that's a pile of things to talk about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[19:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rand is working on it currently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[19:18] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[19:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, first up the C# documentation is still planned for this quarter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[19:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we had hoped to be able to try it out during our demo development

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[19:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and did

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[19:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but not as much as I had hoped as Kelly know's the scripting API too well, so most people just asked him questions :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[19:19] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Leia, I had that as a good script memory target too for some reason. Not sure where I got it from.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[19:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and andres knows C# well, so people were asking him about C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat77|[19:19] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its in teh wiki

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[19:20] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry. ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[19:20] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would explain that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[19:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|np kelly, you've been ossm!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[19:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[19:20] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I am not sure it is official

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[19:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, anyway, we're going to have some explicit tasks to work on the C# documentation in the next sprint

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[19:20] ]]
| colspan="2"|Object: Hello, Avatar!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[19:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to help Rand fill in the blanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[19:20] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Gayathri Linden is too embarassed to ask kelly or andres for help, so has some insights for rand. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[19:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then will be releasing it at the end of the quarter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[19:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay! go gayathri

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[19:21] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When is "end of the quarter?"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[19:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|building demos last week gave us some valuable insights in to the current API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[19:21] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How do "sprints" work in LL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[19:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, C# uses doubles internally by default

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[19:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and casting to floats all over the place to pass to the LSL API was painful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[19:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's some API feedback we already know about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[19:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully we'll get lots more when we release the API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[19:22] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|end of the quarter should be sometime early July?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[19:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|by the end of June is what we're hoping for

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[19:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|next up, status update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[19:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we spent last week building C# demos to test the API, documentation and sandbox

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[19:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and have some excellent demos to show people and learned a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[19:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|want to talk about the current performance numbers kelly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[19:25] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Imaze Rhiano tickles Kelly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[19:26] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[19:26] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Irie: do any of your tests deal with performance?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[19:26] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one of our tests is a bit too good for C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[19:26] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|taking 9s to do 100k iterations where LSL takes 13s to do 100 iterations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[19:26] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we are trying to figure out why

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[19:26] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: nope, just functionality

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[19:26] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since that is a bit suspicous

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat110|[19:27] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Our best test so far is NSieve prime number finding

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[19:27] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it has the right amount of lists / array optimisation to really show off what C# helps with

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[19:27] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The test in C# takes about 0.22s and 344 bytes of memory to find prims up to 2048

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[19:28] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In LSL we see either 18.0s and 16k of memory for the lists or a memory optimized version that only uses 8k memory but takes 160s to complete

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[19:28] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Irie: better get some perf tests added too. Babbage is currently fighting attachment rez/derez performance issues, and I'm sure Babbage would have loved perf tests to have shown the problem internally before the residents reported them.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[19:28] ]]
| ZenMondo Wormser:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is this LSL on the LSI or Mono compiled?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[19:29] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL on Mono vs. C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[19:29] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pretty awesome :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[19:29] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison can almost believe those numbers Kelly. LSL is a nightmare for doing stuff efficiently in, with all the lists created every change...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[19:29] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The tests LSL versions are on Babbage's user page on the wiki

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[19:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks kelly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[19:30] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll see what we can do about getting the C# versions out as well when we release the api docs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[19:30] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: is there a low-cost way of getting the current time with microsecond resolution in scripts or in the VM?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[19:31] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you might also want to performance test changing primitive properties, sending chat messages (and listening/parsing them) and (de)rezz objects with C# :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[19:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze, most of that will be the same in C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[19:31] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|parsing is faster using C#'s libraries (instead of LLs) but most will be the same as it isn't the scripting itself that is the bottleneck

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[19:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it's just calling through to the same unmanaged functions that LSL uses

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[19:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some of Kelly's speedups were down to using managed .NET implementations of methods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat128|[19:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of the LSL calls

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[19:32] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kelly: numbers needed for all these things. It's not enough to just "know it's faster".

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[19:32] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right - using Math instead of ll functions for sin/cos/pow for example is a big win

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[19:32] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What you don't measure you don't really know, even when you think you do.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[19:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which require marshalling data across the managed unmanaged boundary

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[19:32] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine I have numbers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[19:33] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I gave numbers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[19:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine at the moment these demos and numbers are for internal consumption

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[19:33] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I have tables for all the tests.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[19:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'll be talking with people to decide what we want to make public and when

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[19:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the next area we wanted to show off was code reuse

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[19:34] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: yeah, I know. But what I'm after is some way for users to obtain high-resolution time in their own unit tests.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[19:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to show that you could take existing C# code and reuse it in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[19:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as Johnny isn't here I'll talk a bit about that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[19:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was a very informative excercise

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[19:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you might remember that Johnny was looking at the google doc API last week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[19:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that looked promising as there was a C# 1.0 version of it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[19:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, it turned out that that version wasn't being maintained

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[19:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and nearly all other libraries we looked at required C# 2.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[19:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is an interesting data point and is feeding in to our discussion as to which version we should support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[19:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# 1.0 is a huge improvement over LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[19:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but to enable code reuse and take advantage of the C# ecosystem it looks like we really want to support C#2.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[19:37] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's going to be universal, methinks. If you find C# 1.0 code out there, it'll be 1.0 because it's unmaintained.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat151|[19:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, no decisions on that yet, but more discussion definitely

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[19:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another interesting discovery is that the required libraries make a big difference

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[19:37] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# 2.0 generics are really super useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[19:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a lot of C# libraries require parts of the .NET framework that aren't in silverlight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[19:38] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Faust Vollmar forgot today was wednesday. >.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[19:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, although you can port them to SL it's not currently as painless as I'd like it to be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[19:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, more discussion required there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[19:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, Johnny and Byron did manage to find a library that they could get working in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[19:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the silverlight chess demo that microsoft developed a few years ago

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[19:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they were able to take the C# chess engine and get it running inside SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[19:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then wire it up to a handsome chess set they found on xstreet and build a chess game in SL that reuses an exisiting C# chess engine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[19:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a very nice demo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[19:40] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison can hear the screams from everyone who figured out chess in LSL, already!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[19:41] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's cool Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[19:41] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is very cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[19:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a nice demo of both AI, which is hard in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[19:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and code reuse

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[19:41] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Xugu: Luddites live to scream about progress, it's the basis of their belief system

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[19:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the last demos we built show off C# language features to build development tools

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[19:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the first uses the delegate based event dispatch to build event handler profilers and event loggers that can be dropped in to scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[19:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which allows tools which work like decorators in python or aspect oriented programming

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[19:43] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison nods to Morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[19:43] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are you planning to allow reflection with C# code?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[19:43] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: that's cool. Wasn't sure delegates were going to be usable in 1.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[19:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the second uses reflection to introspect arbitrary C# code and visualize it in 3D using a physics system

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[19:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we use media on a prim to show class interfaces on prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[19:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then model the relationships between them as springs and use physics to lay the classes out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat178|[19:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then draw the relationships using particle systems between the springs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[19:45] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OOoo....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[19:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prims, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[19:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a very neat demo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[19:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|of reflection, C# and media

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[19:46] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looking forward to playing with that, sounds very cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[19:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they're all now working and we're moving on to making videos and writing up the demos

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[19:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which again, will be internal to start with, but hopefully public later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[19:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's been lots of fun and we've learned a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[19:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, definitely worthwhile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[19:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the team has been amazing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[19:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's what we've been up to this week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[19:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the next thing was interop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[19:48] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: a way to request high resolution time is going to be needed.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[19:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, high resolution time first

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[19:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for kelly's demos we were using llGetTime

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[19:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which I think is pretty high resolution

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[19:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd have to check the implementation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[19:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I think it calls through to gettimeofday

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[19:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is as high resolution timer as we use in the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[19:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you know kelly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[19:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we can look it up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[19:51] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we can look it up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[19:52] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Stopwatch.GetTimestamp() - is way to get high resolution timer in mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[19:52] ]]
| Irie Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i did, and you're right babbage, we end up calling gettimeofday

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[19:52] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we used it primarily because it is about all that is availble to LSL and it wouldn't be fair to use a different timing mechanism between anguages

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[19:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks irie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[19:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, what we have is as high resolution timing as we use on the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[19:53] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Would not be fair to whom?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[19:53] ]]
| Kelly Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry, I'm not doign a good job keeping up - what babbage and irie say better answers the question

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[19:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it turns out that llGetTime is a reasonable way of comparing performance

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[19:54] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are user scripts going to be able to call Stopwatch.GetTimestamp() ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[19:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially if you make your benchmark to enough iterations that it takes both versions significant time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[19:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, if it's in the BCL, then yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[19:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and available in silverlight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[19:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we have 5 minutes left

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[19:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and interop is the last thing to talk about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[19:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well on interop ...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[19:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|On interop, I don't really have a well-formed question to ask as yet. However, in thinking about VWRAP and where interop is going, I keep hitting my head against the fact that SL's scripting+physics environment and microthreaded VM is rather unique, non-portable, and even non-specifiable. Opensim does some basic emulation of what SL does, but is never going to provide seamless scripting interop. So I see a problem ahead for interop in your area.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[19:56] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Stopwatch is part of system framework - introduced in .NET 2.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[19:56] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|system namespace... :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[19:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|imaze, look in the ECMA BCL docs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[19:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it's there (and not restricted by silverlight CoreCLR) you'll be able to use it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat221|[19:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, yes, moving scripts is going to be hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[19:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there isn't an obvious standard for migrating running code between servers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat223|[19:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if there was, we'd be using it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat224|[19:57] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Morgaine Dinova nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat225|[19:58] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It worries me

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat226|[19:58] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Might be easier to have scripts running outside.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[19:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have a solution that works for SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[19:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and supports LSL on Mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[19:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|our implementation isn't yet complete

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[19:58] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono is implement more than BCL from .NET

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[19:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it only supports the subset of CIL used by LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[19:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a large part of the work required to support C# is going to be extending it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[19:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The LSL and LSL emulation and the C# machinery isn't really the problem, as those bits are specifiable. But the environment has so many wrinkles, and interacts with Havok is so many "interesting" ways, that really that's forever bound to SL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[19:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one option would be to open source it and complete it with help from OpenSim and anyone else wanting microthreading for C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat235|[20:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another option would be to keep it closed source and finish it internally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[20:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is a business decision

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[20:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that largely hinges on how much we want interop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[20:00] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: that would indeed offer a solution.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[20:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and how much help we'd get completing out microthread injector

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[20:01] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|occurs, any indications whether the efficient scripting functions are helping reduce load yet?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[20:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will be outlining both options to those in a position to make the call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[20:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's not my call to make

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[20:01] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenSim project has this funny rule about working on OpenSim after having looked at Linden code.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[20:02] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thats a fairly standard clause if you mean what I think you mean.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[20:02] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it would make cooperative developemnt difficult

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[20:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we're out of time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[20:02] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, may you please address the 300mb upper limit for a region found in the wiki or when the limits will be announced?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[20:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: that's very good to hear. Although I'm of the tech school that believes in giving business management only limited, forward-looking options. :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[20:03] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for hosting Babbage et. al.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[20:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|leia, I'm not sure, you should ask jack as that's his call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[20:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, time's up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[20:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[20:04] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh yeah the buisness suits are pretty much oppositely aligned to the tech geeks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[20:04] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting chat, thanks Lindens, and everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[20:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you all next time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[20:04] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for having us Babbage & Co.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[20:04] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[20:04] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and other lindens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[20:05] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[20:05] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Need wildcards, * Linden :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[20:05] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|% Linden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[20:05] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's nice to see so many Lindens at an office hour, though. Get information from a lot of sources with various expertise.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[20:06] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|[a-wA-W] Linden
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 05 05

2010-05-05T11:12:33Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[03:07] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh hey babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat3|[03:07] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me shuts up now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat4|[03:08] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat5|[03:08] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat6|[03:08] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat7|[03:08] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|After chewing up like half of andrew's OH I think I'm gonna shut my yap for this one. =p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Today I'd like to talk about good demos for C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[03:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If there a Jira asking that script error messages identify the attachment wearer?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're currently working on configuring the sandbox for C# scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and working on the initial C# API documentation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[03:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Were those your errors output Babbage? Never see a list that long before

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[03:09] ]]
| Karel Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mine I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but there are lots of people inside Linden who would like to see some demos of what we're building

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[03:10] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me feeds Sierra whelp snacks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, our plan is to test the sandbox and documentation by building some C# demos next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[03:10] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Neat

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, question: if you had a week to build some demos to show off C# in SL, what would you build?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[03:10] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|where will the documenation be available? The wiki?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[03:10] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd love to help out, with things like arrays I'd be able to do abunch of simple-ish games much easier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[03:11] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me probably wouldn't get anything done in a week, he'd still be figuring things out at that point. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[03:11] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shared secret crypto via chat channels :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the plan is to get C# in to beta as soon as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[03:11] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How about the classic game of Life demo that was also used for LSL2?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but there is a desire to have some demos build internally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[03:12] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh Life is a must, just for tradition's sake.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm convinced that once we have it in your hands in beta you'll build a ton of great stuff to show off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but until then, I think we need to do a round of demos internally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat29|[03:12] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one week? humm... ultimate "hello world" script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which will be a good thing, as we should eat our own caviar and test that everything works)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[03:13] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For the beginners, some simple scripts showing the basic events (touch, listen) in actions would be nice...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let me outline where we've got to in our thinking

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[03:13] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are the people seeing these demos going to be looking at just the results, or the source, too?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the biggest benefit of C# is the ecosystem: the tutorials, books, libraries and such

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[03:14] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The sources are more important than the visual results

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|of those the most demoable would be the libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, looking for C#1 libraries and demos we could port to SL would be good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[03:14] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Depends on perspective, it can also be a problem (noob question: "why does 'Form' work?"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is a silverlight chess demo for example, that we might be able to use the AI from and rewire to move prim pieces around

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(the audience for these demos is mostly non-technical lindens, the engineers are already won over)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we could say "we ported this C# demo to SL in a day"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[03:16] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, there are lindens who need to be convinced this is a good thing?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would be a good demo of the ecosystem benefit for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[03:16] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you want to write something visual then - or - it could interact with webpages somehow

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[03:16] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I could port a A* pathfinding class I made

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, there are always people that need convincing: there are many things that could be done with SL and only a finite number of Lindens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat47|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra, pathfinding would be a great example I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(and being able to say "A resident ported this to C# for us" would be great - you don't need us to ship anything for you to start writing C#)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If any of you could port interesting algorithms to C# 1 and System.Collections that would be super helpful :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, the big benefit is the ecosystem which we can demo by reusing code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[03:18] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Depends on how much information is exposed via libs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Another big benefit is productivity, but that's a hard one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[03:18] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Raycasting would be a good one to port but unless we have the sim information exposed to do it then it isn't too useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Being able to demo that C# is good for complex systems is hard without having time to build a complex system

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we don't, in a week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra, assume the same ll* methods exist as in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[03:20] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hurray....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, you can build your own types use C#1 language features and anything in the BCL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(System.Collections being the most useful)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[03:20] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was kinda hoping more information about the environment would be exposed but ok >.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[03:20] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I can do raycasting currently with LSL. If it can be done with LSL I'm sure it could be done with C#.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[03:21] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Surely C# doesn't need selling internally, does it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat63|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, sure, everything does

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[03:21] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|'sup

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And C# is harder than a lot of projects as the benefits are subtle (but big)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[03:21] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe somekind string search demo?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's hard to sell "a better version of what we have" to non-technical Lindens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and that is what is needed here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to show how it's better

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is fair enough

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[03:22] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Arrays, pointers...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72|[03:22] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think its less of selling it internally and more giving examples of how best to sell it to SL residents..ideas for them to write about on the blog

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[03:22] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you need things that are visually impressive?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's both Chaley, I'd like to have some demos to show off externally too.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[03:23] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: I don't come from that school of thought. It's a technical matter, you TELL them, don't ask. They don't come to you for advice on finance, or on policy. Why are Linden techies inferior when it comes to technical decisions?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat76|[03:23] ]]
| Karel Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Things that are hard or impossible in LSL would be good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[03:23] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think, then, what needs to be focused on is things we -can't- do with LSL, that we can say, "We can do this if we introduce C#"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jonathan, that's the trick - visually impressive things are possible in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'd like crisp little demos that demonstrate the advantages of C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which is tricky when a lot of the advantages are productivity advantages

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[03:24] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are* things

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[03:24] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unfortunately most of the stuff I want to do isn't all 'pretty' visually

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[03:24] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, you can show them the difference in code size for the routines that let you connect to facebook

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[03:24] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra: if you can demonstrate how it's superior to trying to do it in LsL in a visual way, that may be a good thing.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[03:24] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(or was it twitter?)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[03:24] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ooooo play the facebook card yes :>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jonathan, yes that is one demo we're going to use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[03:24] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|demo was twitter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and connecting to external services are good in general

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[03:25] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right, how do I visually represent that my code is faster and smaller for XYZ crypto implementation compared to LSL? Display it's progress visually? Boring

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|reusing a C# google doc client API might work well for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[03:25] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The benefits of C# are technical. Trying to convince non-techs about the merits of C# is like trying to educate ants in philosophy. Just TELL them it's good, period.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we'd need to port it to llHttpRequest

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[03:25] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: Tell them via graphs, show the LSL stats as small bars and the C# graphs as BIG bars :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Another example we've come up with is a 3D Reflector tool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[03:26] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra: they don't have the background to understand all that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[03:26] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mirroring?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that uses System.Reflection to introspect the script and display it in 3D using HTML on a prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[03:26] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't need to, it's all pretty graphs :P BIGGER is BETTER xD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[03:26] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[03:26] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTML on a prim?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, you would copy code in to the script (we don't have library support yet) and the script would look at all of the methods outside it's own class and build a graph of relationships

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[03:26] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sebastean, that is part of viewer 2, media on a prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[03:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well yeah, I guess, you can blind them with pretty graphics. But it's missing the point a bit. You shouldn't need to sell a technical decision to non-techs.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[03:27] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, MoaP - I got excited for a sec.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[03:27] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Morg is saying, they ought to trust you, as their technical developers, when you enthusiastically tell them that it's a great improvement.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[03:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Other things we've thought about are porting the language shootout benchmarks to C'

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[03:28] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will there be memory savings for C# scripts? That could be a selling point

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat110|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which should show improvements as arrarys would speed them up a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[03:28] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or a graph of cpu usage compareed to lsl/lsl2 -- saves system resources

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[03:29] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have another idea, what about porting an A.L.I.C.E C# implementation?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[03:29] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How did Mono/C# do in the shootout vs C/C++ ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[03:29] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|btw, is there a place where we can test anything?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra, yes, AI would be a good example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat117|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like pathfinding

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was thinking about looking for AI libraries that could be interacted with via chat

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or, even better spatial reasoning AIs that could reason about prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|("The red cube is on top of the blue cube")

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[03:30] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's the kind of AI I've been working on, but in LSL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[03:30] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, ALICE would be good but will your libs have XML support?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[03:30] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|proper*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those would be good to show off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra, yes, System.XML will be available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and also, for the demos, we can increase the memory limit on the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[03:31] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Goodie, that'll be good for an ALICE implementation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(effectively demoing Big Scripts in advance)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we could show off an AI demo using 1MB of memory in a single script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[03:31] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|zabaware has an AI in SL, works on facebook too...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which should allow much more than is possible in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any other thoughts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[03:32] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|From a quick search zabaware is not OSS

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Things that would be great in LSL, but just aren't quite possible?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# libraries that would be really useful in SL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[03:33] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|irc?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[03:33] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|asymmetric crypto :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[03:33] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Though frankly I'd just be more happy if more information about the environment were exposed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[03:33] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will other forms of connections be usefull, as in sockets?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[03:34] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Using http for anything interactive is kinda....lame

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[03:34] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hacking everything open?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[03:34] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, if we ever get sockets in SL then the rapture will be upon us :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[03:34] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heheh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not initially Moy, there are lots of security considerations there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[03:34] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess that's true

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But, I'm hoping that more interactivity will be possible in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and less need to do the heavy lifting on an external server

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[03:35] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage++

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[03:35] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage++

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[03:35] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL scripts need more capacity. Things need to be more interactive, without being dependent on outside servers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Agreed, with big scripts and C# they will be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[03:36] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Although I'm sure some things will simply always require external stuff like databasing, so not all of us should get our hopes up on that one. =p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(we may have to improve the scheduler too, but hopefully we'll get to that)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[03:36] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|With that in mind, being able to print text to a prim face would be a great step in the right direction :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[03:37] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Would be nice to do something like Graphics grp = new Graphics(); and apply that to a prim face.... :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sebastean, you can use data URLs and generate HTML already...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra: rapture :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[03:37] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Currently you can't

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat159|[03:37] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sebastean, there is a wiki entry on how to hack data urls

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, that can't update quickly, and it can't be hosted in-world.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[03:37] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you wish to convince lab non-techs, explain how xstreet commerce and new user retention will be effected

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[03:38] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because it sends as text type only

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[03:38] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gooden hit it rihgt there.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[03:38] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gooden, yes, agreed, so what demos would be good there?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[03:38] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Adjustable MIME types would be nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[03:38] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yuo can use plain text with line breaks, and that's it, and llSetPrimitiveMediaPArams has a 1 sec delay attached to it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[03:38] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|database and reports for merchants

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In general, demoing "better" stuff in C# would work, but we're not going to get to that in a week.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat170|[03:38] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|education for n00bs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[03:38] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Plus, the page doesn't auto-update if you change info.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[03:38] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I used my website to proxy some data urls, and provide things like simple DNS, and just switched mine types to html, and was able to do a few neat things with http server prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat173|[03:39] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You could use things like ajax Sebastean

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat174|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're planning to use data urls for the Reflector demo, so that will give us some good experience

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[03:40] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you can convince people that applications that will hurry new signups into the classroom or conference room are easier to construct...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[03:40] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or that will show the "oohh shiny" to new signups...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# will definitely make things like the Immersive Workspace easier to build

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat178|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but again, showing that off in a week is hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[03:41] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about just creating a better inworld jukebox?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[03:41] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of them really suck

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's not a bad idea

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a C# last.fm client or similar?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[03:41] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Shame I haven't order that embeded device I spoke about in AWG which has .NET Micro 4.0 running on it. What better demo than a .NET device that talks with .NET SL ? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[03:41] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ordered*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me built a last.fm jukebox years ago, but it broke with API changes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[03:42] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bah, disconnected

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[03:43] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I was saying, I've been looking for a way to render text, without a delay, that doesn't depend on moap. Some things simply don't need to be that complex.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[03:43] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SVG on a prim!!11

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[03:43] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes Ion, that's the idea.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[03:43] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is that new PRIM_TEXT parameter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[03:43] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's a JIRAabout that...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[03:44] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah Sierra, I created it lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would prefer to fix existing mechanisms

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[03:44] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jonathan that's for float text.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTML is a pretty popular way to generate formatted text

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[03:44] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd be pretty happy to have something as fast as llSetText but with much greater size and positioning controls, lmao.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[03:44] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"existing" mechanisms? What existing mechanism that allows us to draw on a prim without relying on external resources?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[03:44] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is none

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, I'd prefer to fix the mime types, delays and whatever other road blocks there are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[03:44] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unless you allow us to change MIME types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[03:44] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aha ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP server + MOAP should work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat203|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so let's make it work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat204|[03:45] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, the other problem is that since it's dependent on the browser, it doesn't update quickly.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[03:45] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even if you use the trick of changing the URL you set it to.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat206|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, you need to use the long poll

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is how you'd do dynamic pages in HTML

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[03:45] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Youtube jukebox (silverlight) - http://www.codeproject.com/KB/silverlight/SilverlightYouTubeJukeBox.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[03:46] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, let me give an example:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[03:46] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.un4seen.com/bass.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks imaze, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm after

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[03:46] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a HUD that works with a system I built. The HUD has a built-in help menu with popups.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat213|[03:46] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would it be difficult to put moap on a particle?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[03:46] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP refresh header?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[03:46] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Data URIs don't need to be hosted externally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good existing demos in C# that we can look at porting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[03:46] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BEcause I don't have a way to print to a prim face, I had to create a texture for all of the popups and help pages.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[03:46] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a youtube jukebox would be ideal, good find

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[03:48] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how is threading going to be handled in SL C#? Is it possible to queue own work items to thread pool?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[03:48] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will we even have access to threading?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat221|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze, currently the plan is to have threading work as it is with LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|each script is a microthread

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[03:49] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Silverlight Tetris - http://www.codeproject.com/KB/silverlight/silverlight_tetris.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's unlikely we'll be able to give access to the thread pool as they will be hard to schedule with micothreads

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[03:49] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's another thing... the ability to watch a home webcam (nanny monitor) inworld http://www.codeproject.com/KB/audio-video/cameraviewer.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat226|[03:50] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the ability for zindra to have camshows inworld would bring in a huge windfall

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these are all great! please keep them coming and I'll take a look at them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is exactly what I was after

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|send me notecards or IMs if you find anythign interesting after the office hour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, so that was a great discussion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there anything you'd like to talk about in the last few minutes?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[03:52] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well the largest impact of C# by far will be its O(1) but effectively zero-time array indexing. A demo highlighting that would show the most impressive gain.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[03:52] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nothing I havent already griped about lmao.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for performance, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[03:52] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd like to know if there's a timeframe for mono 2.6 please?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we should see those in the language shootout demos

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gooden, we're waiting for debian mono to hit 2.6 http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mono.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which should be in the next couple of months

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[03:53] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Quite likely to see 1000-times speedup versus list traversal, if not more.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then we can integrate it and get testing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[03:53] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so no idea yet which server that'll go to?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[03:54] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Amazon explorer - http://www.codeproject.com/KB/applications/amazonportal.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.44 at the earliest

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[03:54] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good news, thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.40 is going to be havok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat247|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.42 is going to be TC malloc

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.44 might be mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat249|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it's available and supported on debian

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[03:55] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a schedule to upgrade the debian?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure what it is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we normally track stable + backport what we need

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[03:57] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kelly was talking about needing a newer debian for mono 2.6

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|possibly, we'll have to see

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[03:57] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just wondering how that would schedule

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[03:57] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok,

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have Mono 2.6.4 running on our syste,s

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[03:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I do have one request :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we don't want to have to package and maintain it when running on production machines

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[03:58] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If we get a delay-less version of llSetPrimitiveMediaParams - let's not call it llSetPrimtiiveMediaParamsFast :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[03:58] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hahahaha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[03:58] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whisper: Definitely.... we need an ever longer name llSetPrimtiiveMediaParamsQuicker

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what would you call it Sebastean?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me is a little sad that the original had a delay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[03:59] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetPrimMediaParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would break existing scripts that require the delay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat267|[03:59] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can't, backwards compatibility problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[03:59] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Isnt the existing on *Primitive* not *Prim* ? =p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[03:59] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat270|[03:59] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's why I was differentiating.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat271|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, that might work then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the real trick is to stop lindens shipping calls with delays

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[04:00] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good luck. =p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat274|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it will be easier once script limits is finished

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it will be easier to tie throttles to resource entitlements

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[04:01] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, beat me to it Babbage :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[04:01] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully you'll do that after fixing mono :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(1 URL, N KB and M calls to llFoo per second)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[04:01] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i thought versioning would make it possible to use the same name and have different behaviours for newer versions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[04:01] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me inserts a shameless plug for llSetPrimParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me needs a bigger team

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[04:01] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5329

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[04:02] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me made his quota of shameless plugs at Andrew's OH even though they would have been better placed here. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chaley, yes it will, but you need to deprecate compiling to LSO to use versioning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[04:02] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shameless plugs have no quotas :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[04:02] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, how many are on your team, about 4?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[04:02] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They do when you eat up a good half an office hour discussing what you'd use them for, I think. =o

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, we're out of OH time, even if there is no throttle on plugs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat289|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat290|[04:02] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hahaha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat291|[04:03] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat292|[04:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cyu Babbage, have fun

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat293|[04:03] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat294|[04:03] ]]
| Faust Vollmar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cya Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat295|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and please send me more interesting C# demos for us to port if you find them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat297|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you next week
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 04 21

2010-04-21T12:47:19Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[03:09] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[03:09] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[03:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|'Morning Babbage :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[03:09] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi folks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat6|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry I'm late

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i was talking to space about monitoring

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[03:10] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*:-.,_,.-:*'``'Yaaayyyy!!!:-.,_,.-:*'``'*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[03:10] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: the sun is out in UK, that's a miracle that excuses any lateness

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it certainly is pretty lovely atm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[03:10] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[03:10] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talking to space can get you sectioned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, what would you like to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[03:10] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|looking good for 1.38.1 grid-wide today, still?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[03:11] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think so

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[03:11] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Finally!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i haven't seen any panicing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[03:11] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Been loving the new functions so far!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[03:11] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison nods, and has been cutting scripts out of stuff

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat23|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|glad to hear it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[03:12] ]]
| tentacles o.ol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tentacles o.ol [script:Mmm Tentacles :D timer] Script run-time error

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[03:12] ]]
| tentacles o.ol:
| style="white-space:normal;"|System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'LindenLab.SecondLife.Library.llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast'.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26| ]]
|
| style="white-space:normal;"|at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.MonoMethod:InternalInvoke (object,object[])

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27| ]]
|
| style="white-space:normal;"|at System.Reflection.MonoMethod.Invoke (System.Object obj, BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture) [0x00000]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[03:12] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...we like the crazy new S&#* !

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[03:12] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aw this place is 1.36 :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[03:12] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crashed...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[03:12] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aww

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[03:12] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Skills, that's a dman long error message.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat34|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's a pretty good error message though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[03:12] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no showing off the new goodies :/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[03:12] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|-dman +damn

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[03:12] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Who griefed me. My camera was in that space.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's pretty clear what the problem is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[03:12] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yea

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the new functions have been making the problems of script juicing worse

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we're looking at fixing that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but apart from that all feedback seems to be positive

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[03:13] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I made a one script ray caster with the new functions, I was going to rez it and make a joke about the meeting being boring, and play wolfenstein instead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[03:13] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Juicing"?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[03:13] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that thing is pretty amazing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[03:14] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope juicing doesn't go away, It makes updates on lots of prims happen instantly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[03:14] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sript juicing?!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i talked about it in my fosdem talk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you sit a script in a tight loop doing simple math, it builds up a timer skip value

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[03:15] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGneU76KuSY

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[03:15] ]]
| Felis head:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Building The Virtual Babel: Mono In Second Life

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then you can pile in to some heavy lifting and cheat yourself in to grabbing a big timeslice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which causes the sim to freeze

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've had a fix for it for a long time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it can cause problems with some other scripts that use a different loophole to temporarily use more than 64KB of memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[03:16] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's like the flywheel mechanism for gaining more memory, a bit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[03:16] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, okay. I didn't remember calling that juicing.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, I call it a flywheel mechanism

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but aparently the cool kids call it juicing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, don't rely on it, fixes are coming

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[03:16] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Memorial Dae makes note to sculpt a wheel with a fly running in it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|probably a partial one that just addresses the stalls with the 1.38 functions first

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat63|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then a full fix once we have soft limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[03:17] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aww, What about other methods to make lots of prims update all at once?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(so the scripts that use the memory loophole will fault up to higher memory)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have more efficient scripts improvements on the backlog

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to put in when we can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[03:18] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Excellent!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but most work is on C# and Mono 2.x at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat70|[03:18] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[03:18] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Sebastean Steamweaver stepped in just in time.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[03:18] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[03:18] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[03:18] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[03:18] ]]
| Moy Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about improvements in regards to the setlinkprimparamsfast, Moving a lot of prims kills sims, because of the physics updates, link checking, ect...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[03:18] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's the value of 'x'?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat77|[03:18] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How's C# coming?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Karel is currently testing a set of existing LSL scripts against the Mono 2.6.x verifier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're getting some warnings around using identifiers that begin with whitespace

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[03:19] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mooy: Perhaps http://xkcd.com/?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[03:19] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah,sounds like 'x' is 6

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[03:19] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whoops, wrong thing.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[03:19] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5329

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[03:19] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetPrimParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and around identifiers that vary on by case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[03:20] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Seb :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[03:20] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Morgaine :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we're looking in to whether those are going to be problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[03:20] ]]
| Gaticus Hax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|identifiers can start with whitespace?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[03:20] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in LSL and C# they can't, but in CIL they can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we start all identifiers introduced by the UThreadInjector with whitespace

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to avoid clashes with existing variables

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you may remember problems around scripts with variables called "pc" a while ago

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we fixed that by renamed the UThreadInjector variable " pc"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[03:22] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is being "clever" to the point of being unhelpful, Babbage. People are going to trip up on that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now there is some discussion about whether that is valid in verifiable CLI assemblies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[03:23] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison would suggest changing to something statistically unique (like, pc<timestamp in milliseconds>)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it turns out that existing compiled LSL scripts are not verifiable we will need to build infrastructure to rewrite them to run in the new sandbox

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we're hoping we don't have to do

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[03:23] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Memorial Dae agrees with the squash

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[03:23] ]]
| Gaticus Hax:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd have to agree, though it doesn't affect us in world, it doesn't seem like a very maintainable method

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's a risk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so Karel is investigating

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[03:23] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good luck!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[03:23] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.810425s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[03:23] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.517477s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[03:23] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 1.268741s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[03:23] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 1.268741s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat110|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Johnny is currently adding more tests around the script lifecycle

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will help us identify the problems with serialization/deserialization we were seeing with 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it turns out that the lifecycle wasn't very well specified

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we've tighted that up, added tests to enforce it and now we're fixing problems found by the tests

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[03:25] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What are the states of the lifecycle?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|running, stopped and faulted

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on serialization and deserialization scripts weren't consistently setting faults

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which meant we didn't see all serialization problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat118|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(only the subsequent deserialization failures, which weren't the root cause)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we have C# it will be easier to cause serialization errors

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(by forgetting to make a class serializable that needs to be)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[03:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the runtime also needs to be able to deal with exceptions that will occur more often

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it's important that we get the lifecycle properly defined and the exception handling robust

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[03:28] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison nodnods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[03:28] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.508596s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[03:28] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.542384s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[03:28] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison also cheers at "exception handling"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[03:28] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's work we need to do for C#, but it will also help reintroduce the sim freeze fixes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|without the problems we saw with 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the other work we're doing is researching the Moonlight sandbox definition technology

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that we can define the critical and safe critical parts of our platform

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the attributes that Mono will use to enforce the sandbox in the simulator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're reusing the annotations on the BCL used by Moonlight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but need to add out own annotations to the LindenLab.SecondLife.* namespace

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[03:31] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You have your own annotations?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[03:31] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is the BCL in ECMA?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[03:31] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Coolness

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are some non-BCL libraries I'd like to expose like System.Cryptography, so I'm trying to find the legal status of those

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, at the moment, our profile is the BCL restricted by the Silverlight annotations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(so System.IO.File is in the BCL, but Silverlight stops you using it freely)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the last thing we're doing is working out whether we should initially aim to support C#1 or C#2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|making C#1 work in the CoreCLR sandbox will require some changes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|making our UThreadInjector work on C#2 assemblies will require us to port it to Cecil

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we're weighing up the risks and work involved in each choice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[03:35] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison would favour C#2, move forwards even if it takes a bit longer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[03:35] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is System.IO.File still in the runtime, but just proven not called from CLI within the sandbox?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, yes there are some classes and methods that are available for use by platform assemblies, but not by untrusted code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[03:36] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.788685s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[03:36] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.822106s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[03:36] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.617341s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[03:36] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.617341s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[03:36] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 1.261972s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[03:36] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 1.237735s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we use application domains to manage assembly unloading

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, application domains need to be available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we don't want scripts being able to load and unload domains

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the application domain code would be marked as security critical

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|available, but restricted

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(application domains are also in the BCL, but scripts won't be able to manipulate them)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|apart from the C# work, I've mostly been looking at getting http textures infrastructure in to 1.40

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[03:39] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hooooo!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[03:39] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For textures in general?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is going to be close

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but will hopefully make it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is going to be close

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[03:40] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since the sandbox is on your servers, you give it your trust and you take the risks from your confidence in your checks, which is appropriate. Please note though Babbage that it's quite a different kettle of fish when you run untrusted code on OUR boxes. (Referring to Firefly). No-go, unless you accept responsibility for any mishaps on our machinery.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat170|[03:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That will be very nice if it makes it in.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[03:40] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(To Babbage)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, it's a big deal, definitely

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[03:41] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Morgaine Dinova nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we trust sandboxes in browsers, but there is huge potential for problems there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one of the reasons that we're reusing the moonlight sandbox rather than building a new one is that that sandbox is trusted in browsers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[03:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And there are hundreds of thousands of people being exploited by botnets as a result of the exploits in those sandboxes.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we still need to be very careful about all the changes we make

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, indeed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is why we should all be running modern operating systems, with all updates and the latest versions of browsers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|building and maintaining a sandbox is a huge commitment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is why I'm glad that we're moving to use an existing one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat182|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather than trying to build and maintain our own

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat183|[03:44] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It'll be many years before the Moonlight sandbox is trusted in browsers. Even Silverlight won't be trusted for a good few years yet, since it's so little used. Moonlight, even less. They're both orders of magnitude less tested than the JS sandbox, which despite that has had a stream of exploits.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, it means we need to be super careful about any changes or extensions we make

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[03:45] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, it's fine .... on your equipment :P And I hope it works safely :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the moonlight sandbox is going to see a lot more use and developer eyeballs than the LSL sandbox

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we're moving in the right direction :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[03:46] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's an update on what we've been up to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[03:46] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison idly feeds developer eyeballs to the Moonlight sandbox

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[03:47] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rand has also been making good progress with the C# API docs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[03:47] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very interesting update Babbage, thank you.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which are looking good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and should be available in a month or so

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[03:47] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Excellent!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[03:47] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was about to ask :) Awesome.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the initial release is going to be a skeleton

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which shows the API, but leaves examples and notes mostly blank

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the calls will link to the LSL function calls, which contain all the notes and caveats there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[03:48] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Man pages would be nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's going to be a wiki, so we'll all be able to maintain and update it with examples when we get to beta

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[03:49] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Morgaine Dinova wonders if there are wiki2* tools

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[03:49] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How long will it be in beta before it's released to the grid?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I think Rand has done a good job finding a layout which feels reasonably comfortable to both LSL and C# developers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat206|[03:49] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know that's been asked, I just can't rmember.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, I would like to release it as early as possible and have a long beta

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that was very useful for the Mono development

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[03:50] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That sounds like a good plan to me.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we want to get all behaviour changes ironed out before we go to agni and people start relying on behaviours

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[03:50] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's good. Unlike the politically driven ultra-short V2 beta :-(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bug fixing becomes much harder once we have to consider backwards compatibility

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(see the previous script juicing and memory use discussion)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[03:51] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.542152s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[03:51] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.571318s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[03:51] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Sebastean Steamweaver is looking forward to script versioning.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[03:52] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison is fairly unsympathetic towards devs who meddle with the system to get it to do stuff it wasn't intended to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, right, but unfortunately LSL was previously specified by its implementation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it's hard to point at a documentation and say you're exploiting a bug

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[03:53] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...feature

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think there will be some uses that are just accidental rather than intentional

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat222|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we'll do what we can to avoid problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat223|[03:53] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.862732s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[03:53] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.904218s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, a few minutes left

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[03:53] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, since there's only a few minutes left and things seem a bit quieter, I wanted to ask a quick question - and no worries, I'm not looking for discussion, this is just a plumb-line question. I know this is all our favorite topic, too ;) I know that you all are busy with Mono and C#, etc. My question is, when and if there is time at some point in the near or farther future, would you be open to the implementation llSet/GetObjectScale? Again, this is just "when there is time" whenever that might be.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[03:53] ]]
| Fury Rosewood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|welcome back ardy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[03:54] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, yes definitely

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[03:54] ]]
| Fury Rosewood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|welcome

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at this point I would like to let the 1.38 functions bake a while

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|while we work on C# and Mono 2.6

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then do another pass on the API after that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[03:55] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Sebastean Steamweaver nods, "Letting things settle and givingus time to chew on what we have."

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we will hopefully have a more complete picture of where 1.38 changes worked and where more is needed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, 5 minutes left

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[03:56] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm ecstatic about these functions. There are many instances I've replaed upwards of 15 scripts with one.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[03:56] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|replaced*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else we should cover today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[03:56] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Yes definitely" sounds fairly promising :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat242|[03:56] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison nods, and agrees

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat243|[03:56] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we're done :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat244|[03:56] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.543549s detected (LSO)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[03:56] ]]
| Panel 3:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Freeze of 0.559018s detected (Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[03:56] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Babbage Linden faints

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[03:56] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed :) And I'm glad I was in for the C# update, I almost missed it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[03:57] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great chat Babbage, thanks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[03:57] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Sebastean Steamweaver brings Babbage the smelling salts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[03:57] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow, one for the record books

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[03:57] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for hosting Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully I'll see you all next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[03:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, thank you Babbage
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 04 14

2010-04-21T12:31:30Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[02:52] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|has Babbie hold his OH's lately? I haven't logged in couple weeks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[02:53] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think he has but I missed last week.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[03:01] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morning all!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[03:01] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Greetings

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[03:07] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Teehee

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[03:08] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning all!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[03:08] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see 1.38 is going to pilot regions today :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(or whatever time of day it is for you)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[03:08] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38.1

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[03:09] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good morning Mr Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, 1.38.1 is going out now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[03:09] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mornin

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[03:09] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|minus the sim freeze fixes, unfortunately

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[03:09] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|D:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[03:09] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when will you update mono?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[03:09] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2012

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what would people like to talk about today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we'll update mono, anything else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat21|[03:10] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Debian updates, Mono updates, mostly updaets

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[03:10] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison hmmmms "ETA on Viewer 2.1 and HTTP textures?"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat23|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, http textures, good one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[03:10] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hm.. acess / manipulation of linked prims ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat25|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|couple more?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[03:11] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any progress on animating multiple avatars from a single script?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat27|[03:11] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|multiple avs from a single script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, that's a good list to get started with

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[03:13] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh! Someone pointed out that you might want to look at the XCite ToKon HUD, when thinking memory usage, and XCite stuff generally, as both being widely used and swamped with scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, mono updates

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|internally we're currently working with Mono 2.6.1

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we've got integrated in the csharp-sim branch

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's proving to be pretty stable, but obviously we're not stressing it as much as it would be in production

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the current plan is to upgrade to Mono 2.x in production when we can get an official lenny backport of Mono 2.x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talking to the Mono for Debian folks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is likely to be a 2.6.x or 2.8.x Mono backport in the next couple of months

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[03:16] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that's around 1.38.4 then?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the current release plan is to ship Havok 7 in 1.40

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[03:17] ]]
| colspan="2"|Hug & Kiss NX Attachment: M&P Hug & Kiss NX Animations ready.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then TC malloc in 1.42

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[03:17] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, hopefully Mono 2.x will be ready in time for 1.44

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[03:17] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|TC malloc?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will be in the summer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|TC malloc is a new memory allocator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that includes heap profiling tools

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[03:18] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, cool!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we want move the simulator to TC malloc as it's both faster

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will allow us to analyse the memory use of bloated sims in production

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment we see sims get up to 2GB footprints

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[03:18] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*caugh*Hyboria*cough*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[03:18] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but can't get the same sims to consume 2GB in laboratory conditions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we need to have a profiler running in production

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and TC malloc lets us do that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've had a beta of TC malloc running on aditi since the end of last year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but Oskar is hopefully going to be taking that over

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and running it for us soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[03:20] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|next to a quality system about mmory usage, will there also be a quality system about cpu usage? Is anything planned?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat63|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment memory is the big problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when simulators swap, their performance dives

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and that is the cause of lots of lag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hence TC malloc for analysis and script limits for control of memory resources

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the other big cause of lag is blocking operations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which Simon is mitigating by multithreading certain operations on the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, its generally not that the sims are not fast enough

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's that they're spending too much time either swapping memory or waiting on blocking operations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we're working on now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[03:22] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I but notice, hwne I change products from using a single tiny script in any prim, to have one prim controlling them all, I need quote a database (lists) to save their states and to control that I will control the correct prim, if I do 'something'

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[03:22] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, I am not sure if this will save memory at all?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[03:22] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye, I proposed a solution for some of that problem.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mo, you will be saving memory as there is a per-script overhead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you're just recording a few bytes of data per prim, you'll still be ahead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat77|[03:23] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's fairly hefty overheads per-script, per-state and per-function from when I was looking at how script design changed memory usage...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[03:24] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and i imagine fewer context changes would be helpfull too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[03:24] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok so that means the mono rez sim freeze fix will probably be some time in late summer?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[03:24] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I need more 'controlling' overhead, as the bound 'memory to exact link' is no longer there - and it micht couase trouble, if aou add or remove links - also need more over head to compute repositioning and rotating linked prims of opjcts and attachemnts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the case of LSL scripts, they cost 16KB of sim memory whether they're using all of it or not

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[03:24] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, for some things, but for setting something like the texture only of a group of prims in the linkset, we pretty much can't use the new functions to reduce script count.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[03:25] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus, you can, but it'll just look laggy. Possibly we need to be able to have an llStartPrimUpdate() and llFinishPrimUpdate() so changes don't show until completed....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, yes mono sim freeze fix should be back this summer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[03:26] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fair enough :>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat86|[03:26] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because the xSetPrimitiveParams functions only support composite settings of certain prim params.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[03:26] ]]
| Rosalie Reverie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|omg

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[03:26] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[03:26] ]]
| Rosalie Reverie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LGG

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the goal is to get C# in to public beta in Q3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[03:26] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison lives in naive hope that with more efficient resizer scripts around, we can get script count down and reduce lag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we'll want to have Mono 2.x in production before then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[03:26] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Xugu: Already analyzed it; in certain situations, it is literally not possible to get it to work.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[03:27] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will there be reference guide for the C# api's?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also been adding more unit tests around script lifecycle to try to track down the problems with 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I'm more confident that we can get it to work with Mono 2.x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[03:27] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus, when?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the proposed API docs are planned to be released this quarter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[03:27] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, great!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[03:27] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've mostly settled on a V1 API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[03:27] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In the example I gave where you only want to set the texture UUID for a subset of the linkset, and only on certain faces, for example.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and Rand is writing the docs up at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat105|[03:28] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llGetLinkPrimitiveParams (llGetPrimitiveParams in general) does not return proper face identification for such settings.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[03:29] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the llStartPrimUpdate() and llFinishPrimUpdate() is soemthign I woudl pretty much favour, as iwith the single scritp former 'smooth, simultanious movements become ugly.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, next up HTTP textures

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[03:29] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is planned as a feature in viewer 2.1

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will hopefully ship in 1.40

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[03:29] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds like we need an llGetLinkNumberOfSides() or somesuch

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on the server side

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're getting it in to QA at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[03:30] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, really, we just need atomic primitive param settings.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the big issue there is that we'll be moving around 90% of our traffic from UDP to TCP as we roll it out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we don't have a grid the size of agni we can test on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[03:31] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[03:31] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_TEXTURE_ONLY, PRIM_TEXTURE_REPEATS, PRIM_TEXTURE_OFFSETS, PRIM_TEXTURE_ROT, PRIM_COLOR_ONLY, PRIM_ALPHA

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we need to be careful with our deploy plan and monitoring

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[03:31] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tcp has a lot more overhead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been meeting with some of our network people this week to work out how to do that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[03:32] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|@ Xugu: we need also something to make sure to adress a prim by exact, persitant name or something, not by maybe-changing link numbers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've done a lot of lab testing and are confident that HTTP textures will be a big win

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've tested on big and small pipes when conjested and unconjested

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat125|[03:32] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|TCP with time-critical/dynamic data is scary.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and TCP rezzes textures faster in all cases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[03:33] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http allows better caching around networks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're using HTTP Imaze

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[03:33] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus; yes, but the textures aren't time-critical

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment it's using caps, which breaks caching at the linden boundary

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we're talking about ways to extend the caching beyond the linden network

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[03:34] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh then we can make texture squids :O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the internal caching is still very useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it allows us to use squids on the sim hosts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[03:34] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye. Assets and other streamed data would work best under TCP, or just a streamlined version under UDP.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of caches in sim memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's very difficult to build reliable protocols over UDP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've done it twice and in both cases it was outperformed by TCP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[03:35] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not really; you're just implementing the same layers that are in TCP over UDP.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as is the linden reliable UDP path currently used for textures

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talarus, that is harder than you think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as is the linden reliable UDP path currently used for textures

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[03:35] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will be such a huge performance boost

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[03:35] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison nods to Talarus "Things is, by the time you've added reliability, congestion control and in-order delivery to UDP, you've just re-made TCP in userspace instead of the kernel"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a fun excercise, but very tricky to get right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[03:35] ]]
| Skills Hak:
| style="white-space:normal;"|experience-changing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[03:36] ]]
| Memorial Dae:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the only real big win you get by adding optional reliability to UDP is that you can use the conjestion feedback you get from reliable packets to control the flow of unreliable packets

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[03:36] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've done work on such protocols *shrugs*. More often than not, things like the Nagle algorith cause issues leading to it being turned off in TCP connections.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|without it you need to add conjestion probing packets to your unreliable stream to maintain TCP friendliness anyway

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|basically, it's very rarely wise to use UDP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, anyway, HTTP textures should be in server 1.40 and viewer 2.1

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the next item was linked prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what was the question there?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat155|[03:39] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one problem is, that you only can access tehm by link number

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[03:39] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The main problems I've encountered with reliable UDP implementations have more to do with traffic prioritization that some backbone providers often do in their ham-fisted attempts to impose their own concepts of QoS. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[03:40] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, if you replace scripts inside every single prim, you never know if or when link numbers may change and how they may change and you might loose the assignments.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[03:40] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye, did you read that proposal I gave you a couple weeks ago on the subject, Babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mo, there is more book keeping, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i can't remember talarus, sorry, what was it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[03:40] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the only workarround I do knowis, that you need to give every link a unique name and then search for that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[03:41] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and also this will kill smooth 'changes' you now can do in parallel.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[03:41] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, you have to do that, for sure.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[03:41] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be nice to be able to specify subset identification.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[03:42] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I don't see any nice and easy way to do that. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[03:42] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|e.g. I do things like this skit - and move the prims to change appearence

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talarus, I agree, SL should support scene graphs for orgnanising objects in to heirarchies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[03:42] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|works like a curtain now ...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which would easily allow you to group sub parts of an object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and transform them together

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[03:43] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, that is mainly solving the problem of not having to retrieve parameters that you don't want to change before changing an associated parameter.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, it doesn't and may never

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, objects are just a list of bits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[03:43] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As it stands now, I can't use the new functions to "fix" this AV's script load, because I can't reliably guarantee I am getting the right parameters. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which you need to keep track of

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm reading the proposal

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe you should post it somewhere public, give us the URL and we should discuss it next week?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[03:44] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I don't want to change the texture repeats/offsets/rot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[03:44] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK. Can JIRA it, I suppose.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[03:44] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I just wanted feedback to know if it is remotely possible.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm definitely interested in the feedback

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat182|[03:45] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because as it stands, I'm stuck

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[03:45] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because as it stands, I'm stuck

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[03:46] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok.. but there are no plans to make assignemts between links and 'memors' more persitant?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat185|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, it looks like it would be possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[03:46] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|reliable

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, it looks like a pretty horrible API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you get a combinatorial explosion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[03:46] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|being able to assign subsets in linksets could be great for animating objects, as right now you can only move child prims in relation to the root prim.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_A_AND_B

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_A_AND_C

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|really you want to be able to define bit fields for parameters maybe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, I suggest putting it on JIRA and having the discussion there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[03:48] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and more over you can only get the positios and rotations in relation to simulator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mo, you need a scene graph again :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[03:48] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a scene graph?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a heirachical organisation of a scene

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[03:49] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, that's not quite what I am referring to. Selectivity of links in SLPP isn't what I am after, but rather breaking out certain sets of prim properties which shouldn't be forcefully grouped.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that allows you to work in relative positions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, talarus, that makes sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[03:49] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean, yes, that would be nice, too, but that's not what the proposal is about. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[03:49] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Change texture UUID without changing texture repeats, offsets, and rotation. :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, last thing was http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[03:50] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the present means work to manipulate objects and attachments - its but not that consistent, asPRIM_POSITION is local when you set and globel when you get.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat206|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which it looks like is on Kelly's plate

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[03:50] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Xugu Madison has to run. Thanks for hosting, Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat208|[03:50] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, that's a problem, too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, I'll ask him about that later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[03:51] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Almost all the land I work on is like that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming xugu

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we have a few more minutes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else you'd like to talk about?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[03:51] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am hoping it turned out to be a viewer bug.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat215|[03:52] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Megaprims? :D That's more Andrew's bailiwick, I think. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, megaprims is andrew's bag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[03:52] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llStartPrimUpdate() and llFinishPrimUpdate() you are planning to do that?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure I've heard about those?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a JIRA?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[03:53] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I but heared that today in this meeting - don't know who suggested it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat221|[03:53] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He's trying to get the parcel encroachment issue resolved before they will be "allowed" officially (even though it seems rather pointless with them everywhere as it is <.< )

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat222|[03:54] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it would help to make object changes smooth with but one script, as its now with script per prim.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat223|[03:54] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i didnt see much about animating multiple people from a single script yet.. i want that to become possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat224|[03:54] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think I suggested it four years ago in the old forums when Torley was asking for ideas in the scripting forum. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[03:55] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Batch prim updates, basically.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, got it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah yes, chaley, multiple people from a single scritp

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[03:55] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hzm.. maybe llStartPrimUpdate() and llFinishPrimUpdate() is not the best command name for that feature.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't think there are any plans currently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[03:56] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think I called it "BeginUpdate" and "CommitUpdate" or something like that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[03:56] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|although with that being able to control multiple peoples controls and camera from a ingle script could have its used

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you should make a JIRA if there isn't one and point Gisele and I to it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment most scripting work is on C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[03:56] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|animating people from a single script would be interesting..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat235|[03:57] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Multiple-av perms. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[03:57] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*uses

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we are still considering API changes and additions for later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[03:57] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will when i dont f3eel so ill :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we should have a way to tag scripting issues...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[04:00] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe a new JIRA category.. SCR :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[04:00] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a minute left to dicuss one more jira?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat242|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we're quick :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat243|[04:01] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[04:01] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18960

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat245|[04:01] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its a proposal for llLIstenTimed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[04:02] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i thought it might help aleveate some of the script overhead with cleaning up listeners for menus

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[04:02] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I love that one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is it needed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[04:03] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Primairly I use timeouts in the timer() event to handle those.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i normally set a timer when I great a listener for a dialog, then just clean up the listen in the timeout

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[04:03] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i coould use it qujite a bit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[04:03] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is not needed as SL is not needed ;) - its very handy!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[04:03] ]]
| colspan="2"|* Babbage Linden likes minimal APIs, I don't think we should implement it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[04:03] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have multiple synthetic timers quite frequently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[04:03] ]]
| Mo Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just imagin you need to handle like 5 or more times the same script - not needtin to care for one more is great benefit.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do think we should do a better job with UI control from scripts however...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[04:03] ]]
| Lycia Undercroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|having this would decrease a lot of complexity

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[04:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, time's up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[04:04] ]]
| Schmu Abdallah:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llName2Key() would be nice to have too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat260|[04:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|happy scripting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[04:04] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|use lists with handles and timeouts :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[04:04] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage.
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 31

2010-03-31T11:12:25Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[03:00] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[03:00] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, when the old function would take 51 seconds at best

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[03:00] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like all the prims i want to change at the same time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat4|[03:00] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat5|[03:01] ]]
| Cale Flanagan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i was first on this sit:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat6|[03:01] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then you have to use LINK_SET in the call or something similar.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat7|[03:01] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello babbage! so timely!!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[03:01] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol sorry

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[03:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi everyone, how's it going?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[03:01] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morning Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC33CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[03:01] ]]
| colspan="2"|Command not recognized at this location.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC33CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[03:01] ]]
| colspan="2"|Command not recognized at this location.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[03:01] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[03:01] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|'Morning all :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[03:01] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pretty excited over 1.38 XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[03:01] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Playing with our new toys :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[03:01] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[03:01] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it becomes nearly equivalent to llSetLinkPrimitiveParams, which does some what reduce the goal of introducing llSetPrimtiiveParamsNoDelay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[03:01] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[03:01] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool! my region runs on 1.38 and it seems to benefit from it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[03:01] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gm, all :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[03:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|glad to hear it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat23|[03:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, let's get an agenda together

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[03:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38 experiences sounds like it should go on it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat25|[03:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like to talk about script limits boundary conditions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[03:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[03:02] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[03:02] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat29|[03:03] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can we spend a little time talking about use cases for llSetLinkPrimtiiveParamsNoDelay?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[03:03] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Script usage reporting on group owned land

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[03:03] ]]
| ZenMondo Wormser:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want to know more about c# scripting coming up.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[03:03] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|roberto salubrius reported one of his HUDs seemed to be broken by the new server. as in Mono errors that didn't appear with previous servers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[03:03] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any plans for APIs for the sim / script performance reporting (not just through the viewer)?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[03:03] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yea I have a quick thing to mention with ppfast if there is time, but there's probably nothing to be done about it, so eh. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[03:03] ]]
| colspan="2"|TKD Nitro HUD V2.0: TKD Nitro HUD V2.0 [script:TKD NITRO RUN V2.0] Script run-time error

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[03:03] ]]
| colspan="2"|TKD Nitro HUD V2.0: System.Runtime.Serialization.SerializationException: serializationStream supports seeking, but its length is 0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37| ]]
| colspan="2"|at System.Runtime.Serialization.Formatters.Binary.BinaryFormatter.NoCheckDeserialize (System.IO.Stream serializationStream, System.Runtime.Remoting.Messaging.HeaderHandler handler) [0x00000]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38| ]]
| colspan="2"|at System.Runtime.Serialization.Formatters.Binary.BinaryFormatter.Deserialize (System.IO.Stream serializationStream) [0x00000]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39| ]]
| colspan="2"|at LindenLab.SecondLife.Script.Deserialize (System.Byte[] object_data) [0x00000]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40| ]]
| colspan="2"|at LindenLab.SecondLife.Script.Deserialize (System.Byte[] class_data, System.Byte[] object_data, System.Reflection.Assembly assembly) [0x00000]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[03:03] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|here it is.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[03:04] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|did the error appear in public chat?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[03:04] ]]
| Cale Flanagan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scrip usage reporting in sandboxes? (atleast it wasnt on aditi)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[03:04] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[03:04] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, its in the debug channel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[03:04] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry i'm still confused about that in V2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat47|[03:04] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[03:04] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a modest proposal on a notecard I'd like to give you since I'm here. :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[03:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, so we have:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[03:05] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(( i can't provide more details about this error and i can't share the object. ask Roberto Salubrius if needed ))

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38 experiences

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|c# scripting update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono errors

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[03:05] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(hi all)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|APIs for script usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that sounds like enough to be getting on with

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[03:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, first off, 1.38, how are you finding it? the good, the bad, the bugs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[03:06] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So far so good.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[03:06] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think 1.38 is great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[03:06] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seems to be good ❤

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[03:06] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The new toys are luscious

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[03:06] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's good! A few things we could do with still, but a great leap in the right direction

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[03:06] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|huge win

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[03:06] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Script Info on group owned land is not working as expected.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[03:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what's the problem with script info?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[03:07] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its interesting to get a more closer feel of the raw speed of the sim using the ppfast function

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[03:07] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's ultra groovy. Only think I have noticed is that a bunch of slave scripts are still faster for some heavy operations, setting textures for one. I assume that's cos in the case of slave scripts you have N scripts getting N timeslices rather than just 1 script getting 1 timeslice, and there's not really anything to be done about that?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[03:07] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes i have one problem with script info it seems to count deactivated scripts too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[03:07] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Always says 160kb in use and never lists scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[03:07] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Several of us looked and saw the same.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, thanks ardy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[03:07] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think i want some up-to-date scripting general guidelines

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a PJIRA for that?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[03:08] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't found one yet.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat76|[03:08] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There will be soon enough.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please set one up if there isn't one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, slave scripts will be faster, if you add enough of them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you're getting more script time slices

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but script limits will encourage you not to do that ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[03:09] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|script info says i use 640kb in 10 scripts but 9 are deactivated

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chaley, deactivated scripts still used memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[03:10] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Noddles. I was just a tiny bit disappointed that I can't change like, 100 textures fast enough to make something really smooth and interactive, but I guess that is kind of pushing it, huh? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[03:10] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeh, they have just been "paused"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scripts use memory whenever they are rezzed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, HTTP textures may help there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[03:10] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aww :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it speeds up texture transmission around 2x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[03:10] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When will HTTP textures be officially supported?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[03:10] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can we get the ability to flat out kill scripts in a prim? Otherwise it's going to be hell on those of us with script stores full of inactive scripts....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[03:11] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Noddles. I am thinking the same, but at the risk of going OT, I think it will be a while begore V2 gets adopted widely. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[03:11] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean in-world...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[03:11] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*before, too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, there are 2 things going on here: you're updating the state of the world

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then the simulator is updating viewers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[03:11] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will never adopt V2... Not before some major changes in it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is a throttle on the viewer update rate

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so it is possible to alter the simulators state too fast for viewers to keep up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[03:11] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is that the Agent Updates/sec stat in sim stats?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[03:12] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what if they are boxed, and then boxed again, will they still east memory?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[03:12] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eat

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[03:12] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I also haven't found any good way to push data into media textures from outside sources. I have to put something in an iframe and write some JS to update it every second or two. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[03:12] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But if someone knows a better way to do that, please IM me. :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat105|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lonetorus, objects that are inside objects are not rezzed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[03:12] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is the throttle server-side or can it be tweaked in a viewer?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they are just inside the objects inventory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[03:13] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that answers xugu's question

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so scripts in the nested object won't count

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|until you rez the nested object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat111|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jb, the throttle used by the interest list system is the one you can tweak in the viewer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[03:13] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lonetorus, unfortunately not... I have single prims containing script, notecard etc, and set to sell content (through object settings rather than a vendor)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[03:13] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it seems like we need a way to have scripts completely turned off to me

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[03:13] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|though, i wonder if thats goung to be possible to communicate to the ppl that sell many scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[03:13] ]]
| lonetorus Habilis:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or freebie stores

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it is enforced in the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[03:13] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods... ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chaley, the way to turn them off is to derez them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[03:14] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok so here's what I dont get about the script memory reporting: Say an object has 4 (Mono) scripts. That'll use 256 KB right? So what purpose does this serve? How is this better than simply counting the scripts and multiplying by 64?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[03:14] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that doesnt help for scripts that need them at times

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[03:14] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, you might want to remove the "No office hour 2010-01-27" from the prim in front of you.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[03:14] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|down the road, we will get a llSetMemorySize() function

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[03:15] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me wants that, bad. Lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[03:15] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ovaltine, while it's good for finding out how much crud is in a HUD,I do worry it'll cause a back-lash against Mono scripts before we can drop memory usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[03:15] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ovaltine, mono scripts currently use 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but eventually they will be able to set their reserved sizes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat128|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|first with small scripts, to less than 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then, with big scripts to more than 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the former makes simple scripts like door scripts more reserved memory efficeint

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[03:16] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you bring the possibility to animate lots of people with one script then i can remove a lot of these scripts :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the latter lets you make complex scripts without having to break them up and use link messages

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[03:16] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods to Chaley "That's something we need desperately too..."

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[03:16] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In order to determine what a reasonable "max size" should be, will there any form of "high water mark"... how much memory a script has used, since reset?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[03:17] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not too likely.. the permissions system is a whole 'nother ball of wax. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[03:17] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So Ill be able to say "Ok, this script only ever uses 10kb, so only reserve that much"?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jb, the current memory functions give a high water mark

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[03:17] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, I thought that was just "current mem" for some reason. thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this brings me to the reserved memory boundary conditions discussion I wanted to have

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|currently if your script hits its limit it stack-heap collides

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with mono and reserved memory, it could potentially fault up to higher memory usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if that memory is available in the memory pool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[03:18] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me thinks about the reasonable max memory use: the tier i pay is enough to add 8 gigabytes of memory to 4 servers, monthly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[03:19] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Throwing an exception that we could use to increase the heap with the new function and then continuing would be pretty awesome. <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would reduce the requirement on scripters to always get reserved memory exactly right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[03:19] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, have a set size, and a max size. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[03:19] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me would like the ability to set soft and hard boundaries. A soft boundary is pre-reserved, using the model you're going for Babbage, but it will try to re-allocate up to the hard boundary if it exceeds the soft one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it would also avoid the need to change reserved memory sizes if we change the something on the simulator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[03:19] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage - that would nice... to not have a hard failure. Also... As Liandra suggests, a way to know it's happened :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(going to 64 bit for example)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it reduces the load on scripters

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it increases the complexity on residents

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as they may turn up to their land and find that scripts have stopped

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because they tried to fault, but failed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would require more management from residents

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[03:20] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No different than finding that they have stack-heaped. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[03:20] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can't that happen already, anyway?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and more UI to make it clear what's happening

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, that's my argument, they can run out of memorynow

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're currently debating this inside linden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I'd like to know your thoughts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[03:21] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can owners of no-mod scripts set the memory parameters for them?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[03:21] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, make it clear in UI. I still think that having to re-compile every script if we want to get it below 64kb memory usage is a bit nuts, for reference...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[03:21] ]]
| ff 1.2:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Too many HTTP requests too fast.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|always hard limits, or limits that can be soft if they need to be?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[03:21] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Speaking of UI. When, if ever, will be be able to see the script time (not just memory) of our attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, that is also the question

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[03:22] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think, ideally, if there's unused memory available, we should be able to use it if we need it, until something else reserves some of it. Prolly be a pain in the rear to implement all that though, eh? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we're going to allow this faulting behaviour, when should we use it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we could for example, set mono and LSL reserved memory to 16KB and let them all just fault up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[03:22] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YES!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that makes it very hard for residents to know what's going on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat173|[03:23] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Users of no-mod scripts need to be able to do all these things too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat174|[03:23] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure. I like to think people are fairly used to the idea of memory allocation by now...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[03:23] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, how do you decide what to do when something goes haywire and starts allocating endlessly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, at the moment no-mod scripts will use 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as that's us being conservative

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[03:24] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think I like the concept of having both a soft and a hard limit set by the scripter.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we set no-mod scripts to 16KB and let them fault up, that may be a better alternative

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[03:24] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Morgaine is onto something... for the end-user to be able to tweak memory for a no-mod, and not require the scripter to do so.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[03:24] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|..and an ACCURATE current memory use function

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[03:25] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|With this "unlimited faulting" behavior, I think it is just going to encourage lazy scripting and horribly confused users.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[03:25] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tal++. But I also think that while y'all are implementing all this stuff, we really need some way to be able to recover from memory issues. We used to be able to have another script reset one that had scack-heaped, but that hasn't worked for ages. It makes for some frustrating support issues when you can't code your stuff to recover from faults on its own. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talarus, agreed, that is what some of the linden opinions are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat185|[03:25] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*stack-heaped, too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[03:26] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well I think user-settable memory usage is a throwback to the 70's. But if we have to have it, then users of no-mod scripts need to have it too, because unfortunately that's the majority of scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|caewlin

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[03:26] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, there's something about this which is different than most systems that I'm used to. In general, people are used to less memory = worse performance. We're talking about less memory = breakage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[03:26] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like having the script be self-aware of its own limitations and work within them, interfacing with the user as needed to explain why it can't do X because X requires too much in terms of resources.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talarus, i like that too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[03:27] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Helluva lot better than "ZOMG! STACK/HEAP ERROR!!!"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are 2 types of scripts to consider

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[03:27] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't mind having to handle an OmgReduceYourMemoryFootprint exception, if we can just -have- something to use for recovery, lol. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[03:27] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What does anyone do at that point?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|old ones that don't know about memory limits, they need to do something sensible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[03:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: not much point interfacing with the user when it's no-mod and the user can't do anything about it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and new ones that can know

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, an old Mono script, knows nothing about its own memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we move the simulator to 64 bit and now it needs to use 90KB of memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it can't just explode

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[03:28] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I mean, interfacing with the user by saying "sorry, I can't store 1001th teleport location.. expand your teleport HUD today at xyz store!"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we could change its reserved memory to 128KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[03:28] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a low_memory event - in which you can code various options depending on the application

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[03:28] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|reduce the size of lists etc

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but not all Mono scripts will need more than 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[03:28] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rather than just getting a stack/heap error, or have it stop running due to script limits.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, letting the ones that need to fault up to 128KB may make sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[03:29] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: spam as a coercive marketting feature? No thanks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|meanwhile, the self aware mono script notices that it's using more memory for some reason

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[03:29] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's not what I was suggesting, Morgaine.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because it's caught an exception or something

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and does something sensible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|reducing cache sizes or something

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[03:29] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And if your footprint still sucks on that low_memory event's exit, it stack-heaps? What happens when you are evul and just run a dead loop in that event and keep allocating moar moar moar?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[03:29] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wonder how much script logic in a sim will be taken up with script memory management overhead and hacks?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[03:30] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm really liking the idea that we ditch script-set memory usage boundaries, and stick with faulting up from 16 or 32kb...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[03:30] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just saying that the scripter can make the script aware of the problem and handle it with the user in a graceful fashion, rather than letting the user plow into the brick wall of technical jargon.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JB, I think it will be OK, these are boundary conditions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[03:30] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat221|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of the time scripts will just rock along within their limits as now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat222|[03:30] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i dont think it should be up to scripters to have to constantly check memory at every point in their script - that just adds to code and increases memory. we need an exception event

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat223|[03:30] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Know your limits"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat224|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actingill, agreed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat225|[03:30] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: I'm just making the point that memory usage belong to the user parameters set, not the creator's parameters set. So the user should be able to control all aspects of memory usage, independent of whether a script is no-mod.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat226|[03:30] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... just don't want to invent a whole new realm of workarounds and unnatural behavior in scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[03:30] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JB: Surely less than is taken with all this multi-script synchronization foolishness and having to keep 10k or so free just so you can copy lists when the get passed by value. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there needs to be an event or an exception when memory is running out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[03:31] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods "in 64kb of Mono, it's already tough to get all the error handling you might want, in"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[03:31] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stress *running out* not *ran out*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, soon those scripts will be able to ask for more than 64KB if they need them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[03:31] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage - is there a chance we can get an API to reset a stack-heap collision faulted script?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat233|[03:31] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine: I disagree. The user's parameter set should ALWAYS be a subset of the scripter's parameter set. To do otherwise is, to put it simply, dangerous.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, that's what we're currently noodling on in the script limits discussion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd appreciate your thoughts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[03:32] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mmmm, noodle..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[03:32] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about an error event that passes all current debug messages, and can include memory errors, then we can deal with specific issues without end users getting involved

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else people wanted to ask about script limits before we move on?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[03:32] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The whole notion of bugs is most often where the user exceeded the scripter's expectations in some way.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[03:32] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: memory used belong to the user, not to the creator. Unless you're advocating that memory used be assigned to the creator's budget. :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[03:33] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I love faulting up, personally. I don't think I can give realistic estimates of memory usage for any of my scripts except the ones with very fixed allocation. A lot of them, for example, will store configuration data from the user, and that can vary massively...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[03:33] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That may be, but good design doesn't work that way.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[03:34] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One last question on reporting, actually. Is the memory usage shown for the one parcel, or all parcels belonging to the same resident, on the same sim?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[03:34] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dig the faulting up too, but also push for a way to deal with memory issues without just crashing, or at least being able to have something reset the script after it crashes.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[03:34] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Crashing data scripts would be very messy.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[03:34] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some sort of perminant storage would go a long way to reducing memory needs in any case...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[03:34] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a memory_usage_increased() event could be nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[03:34] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: good design never places the user at the mercy of the creator's incompetence.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[03:34] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Reset = lost data.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[03:35] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, good design means the creator compensates for the user's incompetence. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[03:35] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I presume script allocations would reset to the minimum if the script itself is reset?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, that's how I imagine it working, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat253|[03:36] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I do have one question...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[03:36] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: nice utopic ideal, except that sadly in the real world it's full of incompetent developers. SL's scripting system is intended for the masses.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you reserve 64KB for a script, it's faulted up to 128KB it goes back to 64KB when it's reset

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, let's move on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[03:36] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|An incompetent scripter isn't going to make this particular problem any better.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[03:37] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok... I'll send it in a notecard :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but please let me know what your thoughts are here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so C# scripting update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[03:37] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus: precisely. Which is why I'm saying that the user should have control for no-mod scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks to Morgaine's suggestion we've been looking at what ECMA standardises

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[03:37] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|++Cookie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and for the first version of the C# API we're going to expose the ECMA base class library, limited with the Silverlight 2 security attributes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat265|[03:38] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and allow C# 2 scripting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[03:38] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesome :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat268|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(as it's the latest ECMA standardised version)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we needed C# 2 to get security attributes anyway

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[03:38] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just curious, but is there any timeline for languages OTHER THAN C#?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[03:39] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Blue Kitty always has the best solutions --- http://www.blip.tv/file/3407015 :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talarus, 2011, hopefully

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(but I need to sell that separately)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[03:39] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, not "always" ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[03:39] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there anything we can do to help that along?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[03:39] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What will that entail? Are you still gonna let us just upload assemblies eventually? ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope so caewlin

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[03:39] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:d

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat279|[03:39] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That'll be super tasty.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[03:40] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I was rather hoping there would be a script-bytecode-upload cap or similar, and therefore other languages may just mysteriously turn up in the asset server somehow

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat281|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, yes that would be the plan

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat282|[03:40] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me types too slow :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat283|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we want to run with the Moonlight 2 CoreCLR sandbox for a while to be happy with it first

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment you'd need to get gmcs to generate invalid bytecode that the sandbox verifies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat285|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is harder

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I looked at the LibOMV Vector and Quaternion types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[03:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: will the CoreCLR sandbox be used unmodified, so that we can nuke the hell out of it locally for security testing, or are you modifying it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but in the end decided to only overload operators that have the same syntax

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat289|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we have operater + and - on Vectors

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but DotProduct and CrossProduct to be explicit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[03:43] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage++. operator overloading abuse bugs the bjesus out of me. :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I understand it's something of a religious debate

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat293|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I imagine lots of dicussion about that when we release the API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat294|[03:44] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If people want them overloaded more, they can just derive their own classes, right? >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat295|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the v1 strawman API is looking like C#2 + ECMA-BCL (with Silverlight 2 limits) + ll* methods + Vector, Quanterion, ArrayList, Key, string

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, they could define their own types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[03:45] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will keys not be strings anymore, but actual binary UUIDs?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but Vector and Quaternion are value types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[03:45] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, ew. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat300|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so they can be layout compatible with the C++ types and marshalled efficiently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat301|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, you could define your own class with whatever operators you like and then define a LindenLab.SecondLife.Vector operator too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat302|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which, if you made it implicit would mean you could just pass your type to LindenLab.SecondLife.Library methods at let C# do the work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat303|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Byron is currently working on getting the API annotted with security attributes at build time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat304|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and Rand is working on the documentation that we'll be releasing soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat305|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm looking forward to discussing the API with you shortly :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat306|[03:48] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's the current ETA on us being able to enter the playground, too? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat307|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the beta is planned for Q3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[03:48] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wewt

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[03:48] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i wont be able to discuss it until i understand it :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we still have quite a lot of work to do to make the UThreadInjector work with C# assemblies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat311|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(.NET 2 assemblies specifically)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat312|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we can iterate on the API while we work on that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat313|[03:49] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In short, sounds good, but I do fear we won't really know until we get to play with it...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat314|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so plan to have the API documentation out in Q2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat315|[03:49] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat316|[03:49] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Q2 = excellent

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat317|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I expect that API documentation to be pretty opaque to most people

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat318|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but hope that there are a smattering of C# experts who will help us improve it while we work on the UThreadInjector and sand box

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat319|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, last 2 things

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat320|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono errors in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[03:51] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me suggests that whatever is in the water or coffee in Babbage's office, also be shared with other places... great push and progress :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please make a PJIRA for it with repros if there isn't one already

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat323|[03:51] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|( Yea, I could use some of that. sooo far behind. X_x )

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat324|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(I've got the stack trace in the chat log, thanks)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat325|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the last one was APIs for script usage I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat326|[03:52] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(ok)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat327|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment it's a cap that returns LLSD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat328|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it should be relatively easy to use from other viewers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat329|[03:52] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me waves at Aimee

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat330|[03:53] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me Mexican waves back

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat331|[03:53] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat332|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is a group at the lab currently looking at our public APIs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat333|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once we have a plan there I will suggest making script usage available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat334|[03:53] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, can I get you to look at the feasibility of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1593 BTW. Could help simplify a lot of vendors (where currently they had all sorts of madness to ensure delivery happens)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat335|[03:54] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat336|[03:54] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat337|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we don't give all information to everyone we'd need to work out how to do auth on that API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat338|[03:54] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh christ, not more NDAs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat339|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so it's not as easy as just setting up a REST service

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat340|[03:55] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, I think Babbage means how do they know it's the sim owner asking for the information....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat341|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, morgaine, we use resident relationship with land to decide which script information to send out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat342|[03:55] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whats wrong with NDAs? At Microsoft you sign them daily rofl

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[03:55] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Why is there sensitivity about an API that pulls the same info on my scripts that I could get manually through the viewer?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat344|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we'd need to have some kind of auth in the web API if we were going to follow the same model

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat345|[03:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah phew, thanks Babbage, my misunderstanding. Dislike NDAs intensely.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat346|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JB, you will get summaries about all land

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat347|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but you don't get details on objects unless you're the owner or manager

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat348|[03:56] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat349|[03:56] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat350|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(so, you would start with a summary only web API...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat351|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we have 4 minutes left, anything else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat352|[03:57] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wanted to ask: (Almost) all the scripts in the tool Im developing are LSL. What are the pros and cons of compiling them all to Mono right now? I only see cons, they use 4x as much memory, and make sims freeze when you rez them (has that been fixed all the way?)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat353|[03:57] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP texture loading?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat354|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat355|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will hopefully be in viewer 2.1

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat356|[03:57] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|up-to-date scripting tips and guidelines to write efficient scripts!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat357|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the server and viewer code is done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat358|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we need to test and deploy it carefully

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat359|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as, eventually, it will move ~90% of the LL traffic to HTTP from UDP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat360|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is a big change in how our network is used

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat361|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we need to talk to operations and work out how we can deploy it in stages and monitor the network carefully

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat362|[03:59] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sounds intriguing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat363|[03:59] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's SOOOO much more fun to just throw stuff live and watch it flail...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat364|[03:59] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat365|[03:59] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP (nee TCP) is great for reliable/block transfers, but for temporally-dependent information, you can't really beat UDP.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat366|[03:59] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat367|[03:59] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ovaltine: afaik, mono scripts don't actually use memory until they allocate it? They can use up to 64k, but until you use it all, they're actually only using what they've used? They don't use a preallocated contiguous memory space like LSO does?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat368|[04:00] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(more details re: my request -> i'm not asking for specific tips right now .. but i'd like to see something in the near future .. on the wiki or on the blogs .. about that )

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat369|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat370|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|opensource, yes, that is a good idea

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat371|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to do something internally too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat372|[04:00] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh! Memory usage reporting of shared bytecode?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat373|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"new LSL functions should not sleep scriipts, but should us script pool throttles")

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat374|[04:00] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Restricted to same parcel is done...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat375|[04:01] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even so, if someone on Viewer 2 uses my tool they might go "Hey, this things sucks up a lot of memory" even if its not using nearly as much as the UI claims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat376|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, memory usage of shared bytecode is on our list

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat377|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the UI is hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat378|[04:01] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ovaltine: but if they like your shoes, they will ignore that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat379|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to talk to some UX people about it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat380|[04:01] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Those of us who make a lot of shared scripts are going to have a really bad year without that...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat381|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, yes I understand

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat382|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, times' up!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat383|[04:02] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't talk to the 2.0 UX people, since they got the UX totally wrong.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat384|[04:02] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat385|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great discussion, thanks everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat386|[04:02] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat387|[04:02] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage, very informative as usual, appreciate that :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat388|[04:02] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage. Very cool.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat389|[04:02] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yawn, morgaine. i like that UI.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat390|[04:02] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat391|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please let me know your thoughts on the memory faulting discussion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat392|[04:02] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me neither

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat393|[04:02] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, let's make statistics.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat394|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I'll see you next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat395|[04:02] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyoen know where i can go to see how much memory some of my scripts use without owning land?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat396|[04:02] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tc

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat397|[04:02] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66AA33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat398|[04:03] ]]
| Opensource Obscure:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye everybody
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 17

2010-03-17T12:22:13Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[04:07] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[04:07] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[04:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[04:07] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[04:07] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[04:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still very dark here when it's night...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat7|[04:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, what would everyone like to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[04:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have a topic: script limits reserved memory mechanisms

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[04:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[04:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[04:08] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have questions regarding the fate of arbitrary limits imposted on http body sizes, if they will be removed when we get bigscripts. :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[04:08] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or even before. :3 Lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat13|[04:09] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I've seen your talk about c# api, and how you'd be publishing draft and soliciting feedback, perhaps you could tell us a bit about that process

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[04:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good one, any others?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[04:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|c# api process yep

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[04:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and fosdem talk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat17|[04:10] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any plans to get shared memory visible for memory usage window? or is that abandoned now?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[04:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shared memory visibility

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[04:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[04:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will probably keep us busy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[04:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any more?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[04:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, let's start

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[04:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we've been doing lots of thinking about memory reservation recently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[04:11] ]]
| ScottJoins Alcove:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage Linden have you ever heared of Ratcloner101 ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[04:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we *really* want to be able to have maximum reserved memory sizes for scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[04:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that residents can set up scripted objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[04:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and know that they will continue to work indefinitely

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[04:12] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Creator-set maximums or hard limits built in?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[04:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's the thing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[04:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|where creators set limits, it's fine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[04:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|while developing a scripted object you can test how much memory you need

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[04:13] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sounds reasonable to me. guess the biggest trouble would be setting numbers to those limits and determening how much you can overcommit per sim not to end up with mostly unused memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[04:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and pick a limit that works

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[04:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the problem is for all the legacy scripted objects that don't currently have limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[04:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in those cases we have to be conservative

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[04:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|setting 16KB for LSL scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[04:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and 64KB for Mono scripts (which have been able to use 64KB up until now)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[04:14] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is it going to be possible later allocate more/less memory? is it going to be function that, compiler parameter, pragma...?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[04:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the effect of being conservative is that Mono scripts often look a lot worse to residents than LSL scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[04:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even though they are generally better from our perspective

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[04:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as on average they are using 9KB of memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[04:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(although with ha 64KB maximum)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[04:15] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think y'all should just depricate legacy LSL once the mono freeze bugs and such are worked out. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[04:15] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me ducks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[04:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that is definitely an option we've been thinking about ceawllin

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[04:15] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|!!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[04:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but have no plans to do it any time soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[04:16] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are gobs of content out there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[04:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even if we do, we will be supporting running legacy LSL scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[04:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the only change would be limiting compilation to LSL for new script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[04:16] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so LL can force all scripts to recompile. whats the problem?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[04:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ann, if a script recompiles, it resets

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[04:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as scripts keep data in memory, that's not good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[04:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we would need to extract the state from the script and convert it to mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[04:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is not trivial

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[04:17] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would suck, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[04:17] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and bould for breakage in some unforseen edge case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[04:17] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well there is stuff people bought that cannot be recompiled and the creators are not going to touch it so there needs to be a way to deal with that issue case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[04:17] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bound

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[04:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, it's a hard one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[04:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the current plan is to reserve 64KB for legacy (existing) mono scripts and 16KB for LSL scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[04:19] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well compiling new lso scripts could be disabled at some point. but i know people still compile lso on purpose, especially for scripted attachment as they perform better in region crossing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat63|[04:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is that going to be a problem? is it going to cause lots of people to convert back to LSL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[04:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if so, what should we do about it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[04:19] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well... you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs - and memory limits are going to break some content - that is pretty much purpose of it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[04:19] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|everyone has their own fav set of circumstances. i have a public photo garden with a lot of modeling pose balls and each has about 100 to 150 poses loaded into a list in memory so i need to know what the parcel limits are and how much damage i am looking at.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[04:20] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the best you can try to do is educate people that Mono is better, even though the numbers are larger, but if they are too hard-headed, that's their problem. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[04:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would showing the used memory along side the reserved memory help?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[04:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or just be more confusing/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat70|[04:20] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, that's what a lot of people are asking for.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[04:20] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|showing used memory would be awesome!!!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[04:20] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you showed LSO/Mono cpu usage, they'd probably wise up. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[04:21] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about showing memory that shared between mono scripts? - and script time would be super too...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[04:21] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i need to know what is used so i can see how much value i lose in the 300 bucks a month i have been payiong for sercvices that will now potentially be crippled with no reduction in fees

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[04:21] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well except they are not charged against parcel memory limits for used memory... so it's a tricky thing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[04:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, so that's a related issue

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[04:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we were to surface shared bytecode memory how would that be displayed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[04:22] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even a shared memory guesstimate alongside of something somewhere would be helpful, even if it's not 100% accurate all the time...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[04:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would you rez a script and have it shown as 64K reserved

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[04:22] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now if the pose script can be shared across a hundred units used by different people and it only counts once... but the thing is each ball loads a different set of animations to mem so how does that work?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[04:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then rez another copy and have the reserved size go down to 60K

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[04:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then when you derez it have it go back up to 64K

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[04:23] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|64k reserved, 2k used 1k shared (3k total) or something? The 3k total would remain the same, or something?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[04:23] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think it needs to show reality. what it really uses.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[04:23] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ann, script memory usage counts both the compiled code, and the data codes uses. If you have exact same script and recompile they are going to share the code part

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[04:23] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean don't recompile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[04:24] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't have good answer to that Babbie... not sure is there any good way and same time keep it deterministic

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[04:25] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|code is great. so the memory is wherte the limits are. so we need to know what memory is aggregated as used and know what the limits for the parcel are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[04:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's ok, we don't have all the answers yet, either, just wanted to let you know what we are thinking about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[04:25] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then there is the issue of when an avatar sits on a pose ball that pose ball currently counts towards the avatar and against the parcel i bet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[04:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i agree with showing reality

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[04:25] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At the risk of making someone mad, I think it may be kinda hair-splitting anyway. There's like, bigger fish to fry wrt memory issues, in my opinion... I say get it working and then figure out how to expose the data. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[04:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there may be a period where LSL looks more attractive

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[04:26] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ann, that was fixed in the last version of sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[04:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but in the long term I think people will use Mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[04:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another question is, what happens if Mono script memory usage increases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[04:26] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dunno. Some people still swear that cars from the 1960s are better than new ones. <_< Lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[04:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, if we move to 64 bit simulator code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[04:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the pointer sizes in Mono scripts will increase

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[04:27] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there any compelling reason to move to 64 bit sim code?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[04:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|increasing the mono memory usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[04:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, we will eventually move to sim hosts with more memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[04:28] ]]
| ScottJoins Alcove:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I been haveing problem getting viewer to start on windows 7 it saids the driver out dated?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[04:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and more memory per process

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[04:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at that point we'll increase the memory available to scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[04:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but their memory usage will increase too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[04:28] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahh, I guess someday a single process might exceed 2g huh? :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[04:28] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|4gb

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[04:29] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is it not worth waiting until that point to impose limits or is that too far away?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat110|[04:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do, we just rewrite the reserved memory numbers for Mono scripts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat111|[04:29] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh you can have 4g processes with a 32bit pae kernel? That is massive, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[04:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's quite a long way away

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[04:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we want script limits before we upgrade to help with the swapping problems we have now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[04:29] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but would probably solve the problems people are going to get from script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[04:29] ]]
| ScottJoins Alcove:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was woundering can i run 64 bit on 32 bit vaio ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[04:29] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[04:30] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well there are class 7 sims like this one, and they have more memory, but there is now 8 sims on it, not more room per sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[04:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we also need to be able to make the script limits mechanism work in the face of scripts using more memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[04:30] ]]
| ScottJoins Alcove:
| style="white-space:normal;"|CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2194 MHz)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120| ]]
|  
| colspan="2"|Memory: 2046 MB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121| ]]
|  
| style="white-space:normal;"|OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista (Build 6000)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122| ]]
|  
| colspan="2"|Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123| ]]
|  
| style="white-space:normal;"|Graphics Card: GeForce 8600M GT/PCI/SSE2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124| ]]
|  
| colspan="2"|Windows Graphics Driver Version: 7.15.0011.5652

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125| ]]
|  
| style="white-space:normal;"|OpenGL Version: 2.1.1

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126| ]]
|  
| style="white-space:normal;"|libcurl Version: libcurl/7.18.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat127| ]]
|  
| colspan="2"|J2C Decoder Version: Emerald Kakadu(v6.3.1)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128| ]]
|  
| colspan="2"|Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.750000

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129| ]]
|  
| style="white-space:normal;"|LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.31261 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.21_0000000000)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130| ]]
|  
| style="white-space:normal;"|Packets Lost: 255/576596 (0.0%)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[04:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(or less, although that is less of a problem)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[04:30] ]]
| ScottJoins Alcove:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[04:31] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do we have any figures for the percentage of existing scripts that would fall foul of memory limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[04:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, were doing a lot of thinking about that at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[04:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|individual scripts won't fall foul of limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[04:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but some parcels or avatars will

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[04:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're still working on the numbers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[04:32] ]]
| Melfina Marshdevil:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any idea what the initial numbers are?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[04:32] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they are being compiled - thats a good thing :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[04:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, the numbers are being compiled

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[04:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have some initial strawman numbers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[04:33] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|care to share? :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[04:33] ]]
| Melfina Marshdevil:
| style="white-space:normal;"|care to share them?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[04:33] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jinx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[04:33] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, want to whisper them to me? :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[04:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but want to know how many people are going to be affected by them before we talk about them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat147|[04:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I think jack is going to be communicating them when we're ready

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[04:33] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm curious about the relationship of memory to script time. Argent claimed on SLDEV list that the time is directly correlated to memory. and running out of spare time = page swapping. Is that true?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[04:33] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|being as how script time is what makes my sim lag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[04:34] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what happens when an owner has scripts that use setscriptstate to activate another script but the script would go past the limit? would it allow for that script to activate and deactivate scripts of other people on the parcel?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat151|[04:34] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can use all of the script time and stil have no paging

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[04:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, CPU and memory are different

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[04:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you use lots of CPU time for scripts, only other scripts will slow down

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[04:34] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok so these limits are not going to do squat for sim performance unless avatars are nerfed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[04:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you might notice "lag" when interacting with scripted objects in that case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[04:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as the script you're trying to interact with might be waiting for a time slice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[04:35] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however memory usage can increase disk usage which can increase actual ("wall-clock") time taken

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[04:35] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scripts that are deactivated still use memory so i assume deactivating them will have no effect on overal limits just cpu

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[04:35] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats a lot of lost money. better start planning to change to a new account to avoid refund demands lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[04:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when scripts use too much memory and the simulator host starts swapping, everything slows down

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[04:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whole frames take longer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[04:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and everything feels laggy, even when you're not interacting with scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[04:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, in that sense paging is worse

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[04:36] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well in my sim after watching carefully for over a year when a wad of fashionistas with cruddy scripts waddle in and spare time stays at zero then the rubber bannding begins along with pending downloads rising

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[04:37] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|script limits will help avoid swapping which is the biggest sim perfomance killer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[04:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, so it sounds like you have swapping there ann

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[04:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which script limits will help

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[04:38] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is worth noting the frame time remains at 22.4 while this lag is present

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[04:38] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just think how much more efficient your priducts will be without all the junky slave scripts and being able to exceed 64k when you have to write something with a ton of code in it. It'll either equal out or improve, I bet. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[04:38] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*products, too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[04:38] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when scripts get deactivated, will there be a heirachy? I dont want someone with a huge overhead coming into my shop and stopping my demos from working. Will land owner scripts have priority?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[04:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the goal is that scripts don't get deactivated

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[04:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|parcel owners will get a pool of memory for scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[04:39] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sadly most people wearing the really bad and most expensive shoes that cost 0.5msec a pair don't even use the damn scripts once they set their options.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[04:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and if you can rez them they will keep running

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[04:39] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so the server will prevent rezzing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[04:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|avatar attachments will use the avatar pool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[04:40] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, do you have any idea how much total ram will be given to scripts for the whole sim, even if just a guess?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[04:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and our goal is to get the numbers to a point where even if the sim is full, with fully loaded avatars and fully used land it will still run without swapping

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[04:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, i do, but again, I don't want to talk numbers until we're ready

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[04:40] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if thats the case then there probably isn't a need to worry about the script limits for the majority

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[04:40] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[04:41] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that goal would leave a lot of wasted memory in averge case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[04:41] ]]
| Melfina Marshdevil:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ohhh what about customizing those limits. I heard object bonus effects the parcel memory pool.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat185|[04:41] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since it's impossible to have every script in a sim use exactly the reserved memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[04:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[04:41] ]]
| Melfina Marshdevil:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also can you customize per avatar limits in the future? o.o

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[04:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, lag is currently the biggest complaint, so that's what we're aiming to address

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[04:42] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some overcommitment is neccessary imho

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[04:42] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The goal is not to achieve 100% utilisation, it's to prevent more than 100% demand causing paging.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[04:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we are also looking at overcommitting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[04:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we can make the best use of resources in most cases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[04:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because not all systems in the simulator are limited

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[04:43] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any hope for showing and taking into account bytecode sharing when calculating usage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[04:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even when we introduce script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[04:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there will be some simulators that swap

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[04:43] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well my sim runs great until avatars exceed 10. i hope my sim doesnt get nerfed for no reason.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[04:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, our goal is to pick numbers that reduce the amount of swapping

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[04:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|without inconviniencing many residents

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[04:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as those things trade off, we may end up with numbers that slightly over commit resources in some cases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[04:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ann, it sounds like in your case that the fashionistas that visit will rationalise their bling a little

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[04:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then your sim will run better when it's busy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[04:45] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[04:45] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[04:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and there will be a new market in eco-bling for them ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat206|[04:45] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok babbage i don't like naming names but i will so you guys can go buy some stuff to test. Stiletto Moody shoes eat 0.500 msec a pair.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[04:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is really important I think is to get the small script project out on the grid ASAP so content makers can adjust their product ahead of the time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat208|[04:46] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since LL heavily promotesd SM shoes you guys might want to help that company before they have a million refund demands

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[04:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, yes that is still the plan

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[04:46] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage - if i disable scripts for everyone except group, will people coming in still use memory to store the variables the script had on entry?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[04:46] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Large scripts too. :3 A lot of what I am working on these days wastes a ton of memory from having to split a script into 3 or 4. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[04:47] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you can forget people buying a new pair of L$2000 shoes because you decided to install limits rofl. huge revolt.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[04:47] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actingill, avatar memory is not counted against your parcel limit, so they will not affect it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[04:47] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sometimes i move over sims with "all scripts disabled" and cant walk faster as 1m per hour.... iam sure that he scripts are not the only "big" guiltily

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat215|[04:47] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok sorry i missed the start of the convo :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[04:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, let's talk about the C# API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[04:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the video that latif was talking about is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGneU76KuSY

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[04:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's my talk at FOSDEM earlier this year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[04:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which talks a lot about second life, scripting and mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[04:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and our plans for the future

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[04:49] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# will make me interested in scripting finally lol. till now it has been only as needed.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[04:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|including script limits and C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[04:49] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dang, I thought you were older. *sticks foot in mouth* :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[04:49] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[04:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the slides are also available here: http://www.slideshare.net/JimPurbrick/building-the-virtual-babel-mono-in-second-life

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat226|[04:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|amongst other things it talks about designing the API that C# scripts will use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[04:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and shows some C# code running on our current prototype

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[04:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're working on getting a version 1 API defined in this sprint

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[04:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and enforced on the CoreCLR sandbox that we got working in SL last week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[04:51] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yey

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[04:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that consists of 2 parts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[04:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|defining an SL "profile" which is the subset of the .NET framework that is available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[04:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and defining the SL specific APIs that scripts will use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[04:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the profile is currently looking like it will initially be the EMCA-335 defined base class library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[04:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|minus the System.Net namespace which allows network access without throttling and duplicates a lot of the HTTP-In and HTTP-Out functionality

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[04:53] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awwwww, lol. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[04:53] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|makes sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[04:54] ]]
| Melfina Marshdevil:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no opening raw sockets? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[04:54] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|haha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[04:54] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods "I saw some of this stuff on the Moonlight ML. Looks like you're making good progress!"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[04:54] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Man, if I could open a persistent TCP socket in LSL, I'd me in hawg heaven. :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat242|[04:54] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[04:54] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*LSL/C#/w/e

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[04:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are PDFs describing those libraries here: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-TR/TR-084.zip

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[04:55] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know there is a lot of people who breathe c# and are also heavy users of SL, so perhaps having some way of getting feedback on api proposa would be benefitial for all :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[04:55] ]]
| Melfina Marshdevil:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah but just think what could happen if we could open tcp sockets to "anything" on LLNet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[04:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we are planning to reuse the security attributes from Moonlight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat248|[04:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, some of those APIs will not be fully available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[04:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, you won't be able to use System.IO.File.Delete...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[04:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, to see which parts will be available, you can check the Silverlight documentation for those namespaces

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[04:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm just about to start a pass on the Linden Lab classes now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[04:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of the classes already exist and are being used by LSL scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[04:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but will need their interfaces expanding to be generally useful for C# scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[04:57] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|System.Collections will make us feel like we were released from a straight jacket of LSL, also byref symantic. Hope you don't forse linden api to be by val like LSL does

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[04:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example Vectors and Quaternions need to be able to be parsed and formatted

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[04:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif, the ll* functions used by LSL and C# will be as they are currently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[04:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but there will parts of the API designed to be used by C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[04:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one of the things we're considering is adding Idiomatic C# APIs over some of the complex ll* methods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[04:59] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[04:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ParticleSystemBuilders for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[04:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, its early days yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[04:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we hope to have an initial API defined by the end of the month

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat263|[05:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then Rand will be working on getting that on to a wiki where we can discuss the API in the open

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[05:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the mean time watch the video for a sneak peak in to the current API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[05:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and let me know if anything looks wrong and should be changed next weekk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[05:00] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Babbage, sorry to interrupt, but can you give a yes or no on the "Lifting http body length limits when large scripts go in" question before you go? :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat267|[05:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, I think that makes a lot of sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[05:01] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok, cool. Thankies. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[05:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|makes sense to allow XML and JSON representations to be accepted by HTTP-In at the same time too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat270|[05:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is something I've wanted to do for ages

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat271|[05:01] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yus.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[05:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, I think we've got through everything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[05:02] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have to break my stuff up into multiple chunks server-side to get it into LSL and then reassemble it, lol. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[05:02] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|me too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[05:02] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|parsing it in LSL is pain though ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[05:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and our times up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[05:02] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[05:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, System.Xml is in the BCL :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[05:02] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cheers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[05:02] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[05:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, see you all next time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat282|[05:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and thanks for coming

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat283|[05:02] ]]
| Ann Otoole:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for clearing stuff up Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993333;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat284|[05:02] ]]
| Melchizedek Blauvelt:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for having us Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat285|[05:02] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|^^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat286|[05:02] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat287|[05:02] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you Babbage, take care

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat288|[05:03] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat289|[05:04] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's just crazy. XD
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 10

2010-03-10T12:12:18Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[03:18] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|greetings, Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[03:18] ]]
| Mourn Orsini:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does anyone know how I can delete this 2.0 viewer folders lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[03:18] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ask for the creator to send you version without invisprim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[03:18] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I should probably just contact its creator and ask

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat7|[03:18] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[03:18] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I just heard Pathfinder Linden is leaving :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[03:18] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good day babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We were getting worried.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry I'm late, I'm working from home and needed to set up SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[03:18] ]]
| Mourn Orsini:
| style="white-space:normal;"|current outfit and favorites folders?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat13|[03:18] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[03:18] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee: for me you are just not visible at all right now. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat15|[03:18] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[03:18] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat17|[03:18] ]]
| Mourn Orsini:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pathfinder is leaving? :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat19|[03:19] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|setting up SL can be a bitch :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[03:19] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seb, got fired

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[03:19] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[03:19] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm the little gold pixie up near my name tag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3333;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[03:19] ]]
| Yu Toocool:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Too...... Fast.........................

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[03:19] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pathfinder? Fired?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[03:19] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/educators/2010-March/038468.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[03:19] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pathfinder got fired?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[03:19] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|butterfly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[03:19] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee: ahh. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[03:19] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol "Evangelist" :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[03:19] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi babage ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[03:19] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage* sorry my tipos

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[03:20] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, some stuff left over from the last week, how to deal with libraries for example :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me pauses virus scan which is cripplingeverying

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[03:20] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehe.. Been there.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[03:20] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Persistent storage was another topic, and I have one also.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, right, that's better

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, what would we like to talk about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[03:21] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I have a plea I want to make :) and some praise

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[03:21] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee: apparently creators' wishes are only respected if it suits Lindens' business. According to the TPV doc, the creator's wishes and legal rights if they create open-licensed content with a GPL or Creative Commons are overridden and are not respected, at least by LL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|librares and persistent storage are big ones

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[03:21] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ides for how to deal with shared libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[03:21] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there ANY possible chance of PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC making it into the 1.38 server... the llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsHolyCrapItsDoneAlready() I've already been rewriting our products for (and it works lovely), but PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC would speed/trim things even more.. and we have this terrible habit of 'free upgrades' and things like that can only help the grid.. it will be a PITA to have one set up upgrades then turn around and have to do it again in a month (or two), so.... would it do any good if I made sad kitty eyes to get 'em in????

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[03:21] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, did you get the email I sent you earlier today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[03:21] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some clauses in the TPV are a joke and will be treated as such

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[03:21] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|update on when we'll get word of initial script memory limit settings?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[03:21] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SHOUT: i cant hear babbage from way over there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[03:22] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, that's better

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[03:22] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd second extreme welcomness PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC would have :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, 1.38 features, persistent storage, libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[03:22] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do I need to type that again>>>>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[03:22] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like those also, heh. Babbage - did you get the email I sent you earlier today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[03:22] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I second PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC too :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[03:23] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and me

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[03:23] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fate of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13228 ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[03:23] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Isnt there a way to lower the initial memory allocation of 64kb by Mono to 16kb so it works like LSL, only can get up to 64kb if needed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[03:23] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll even give you a set of iBalls if we can get _NAME and _DESC in 1.38 :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, i think we have enough

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|first off, 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the feature set is now frozen

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we're not going to have any more API changes in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[03:24] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage you give me 2 mints , to get my coffee i want one this morning , lol 6h30am

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[03:25] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fetch a heater to warm it up and let the feature creep xD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[03:25] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|-t lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but if you make public JIRAs, vote for them and point me to them we can talk about putting them on the Pixie Dust backlog for later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(kelly likes putting in new features when we finish a sprint early)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[03:26] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC were on the list almost from the beginning, on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5165

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[03:26] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, since it's near the top of the list for may scripters PRIM_NAME and PRIM_DESC for get/set linked prim params, is it feasable for them to get into 1.40, I cannot imagine them being to difficult to implement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat70|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they might have been on a list ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and no, I don't see them as being hard, so I'll see what I can do

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72|[03:27] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yey!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to know how you're getting on with the 1.38 features on aditi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[03:27] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|back with my coffee sorry ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[03:27] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I've done some work on a resizer script using llSLPPF/llGLPP and I sent you an email concerning my findings. I found a lot of issues while developing it, which I believe make it infeasible as a replacement for llSetObjectScale.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat76|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any problems with them?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[03:27] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they are so closely lin ked to other things the Get/Set Link improvements, it will jsut mean double work for us that are recoding for them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[03:27] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Need to use more meta issues I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[03:28] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jiras, tickets... whatever

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[03:28] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have tested a bit on aditi, the svc-3895

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(oskar has set up a server-beta mailing list which I encourage you to join)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[03:28] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbers ; not realy i have assisted on aditi oh in the last week, im happy of some new feature

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[03:28] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[03:29] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|apparently there are no difference deleting scripts, i still notice a long spike when deleting objects with a lot of scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[03:29] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rezzing them seems to go a bit faster :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat86|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the feedback cerditi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[03:29] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kelly pointed out that you could just put in the new calls in the scripts, they wouldn't highlight, but would compile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[03:29] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|only mono scripts, lso get killed instantly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have mostly been working on rez times

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll look at derez

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[03:30] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but i only tested cubes with scripts, i think real avatars entering and leaving the sim might be very different over time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are you seeing improvements in rez times?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[03:30] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[03:30] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage; can you said if the new param_text can fixes that jira: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16980

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me breathes a sigh of relief

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[03:30] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think rezzing the cubes were a bit faster. at least the difference rezzing and derezzing them were huge.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[03:31] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's difficult to tell since the freezes get worse with the uptime and with a busy place that sees a lot avatars coming and goning. difficult conditions to replicate on aditi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what's the easiest repro for the derez delays? just make a huge object with many scripts then delete it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[03:31] ]]
| Mourn Orsini:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you, gotta go

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[03:31] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Mourn.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, right, there is lots of caching going on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[03:31] ]]
| Ilana Debevec:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I recoded a texture changer using the 'fast' call, for a 63 prim object it went from about 26 seconds to I couldn't get my finger off the mouse button

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so the best way to test is to make a scripted object in one region

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[03:31] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i made 100 cubes with 10 scripts each

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|recompile all scripts to make them new assemblies, not cached anywhere

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take the object in to your inventory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then rez

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[03:32] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and i duplicate them, (control-draging ) it took a few seconds.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|check time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat111|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then rez again

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[03:32] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but deleting them, it took more than 40 seconds

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(second attempt should be much faster, as assemblies will be cached and not reloaded)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[03:32] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|derez time seem to be high even with a same assembly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, I will try to find some time to look at deleting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[03:32] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the scripts were not all the same.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat117|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(although changes there will probably be in 1.40)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you need to make sure you have many different scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[03:33] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|100 script were recompiled, then duplicated 10 times

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, even better would have been to duplicate then recompile the 1000 scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[03:33] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then again duplicated 10 times

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that would have taken a while

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(and at some point you hit the rez timeout and things just don't rez)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[03:34] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|uhm, i will try to recompile more scripts next time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat125|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been testing with objects containing 256 scripts, each recompiled to new assemblies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and that seems to show the issues and improvements

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|although, of, course, I would like to know about real world results

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[03:34] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, trying to rez the objects from the inventory failed sometimes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[03:34] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, Squirrel Wood has a very good demonstration of de-rez slowdowns to show you.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[03:35] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean, trying to rez a object with 200 prims and 20K scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[03:35] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's the terraforming tool.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[03:35] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just derezzing it is pain.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|has he sent me a copy?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if not please ask him to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[03:35] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with instructions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[03:36] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He showed up late last week. I can ask him to provide it. yes.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(I get lots of stuff sent to me, so it needs to be clearly labelled)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[03:36] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, any more 1.28 feedback I should know about?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38, even?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been working with the resizing script as you suggested.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[03:37] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|more stable, i think but i hope to see the behavior in agni for soon ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Were you able to read the email I sent you earlier today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what was the sending address?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage@lindenlab.com

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a copy here if it would help.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, your address

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[03:38] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean.steamweaver@curiouscontraptions.org

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[03:38] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I also tested llLinkParticleSystem() and it seems to work fine.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, found it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was filed away...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will read later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[03:38] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's feature request about object scale, i'm afraid we're gonna spend the rest of this hour on it, and i'd really like to hear about the other points on the agenda

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[03:38] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All right, thank you Babbage, I appreciate it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, all the new functionality seems to work, rezzing is better, but derezzing needs work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[03:39] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey bababge why you dont assist at the Oskar OH , on aditi tomorrow? ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[03:39] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[03:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That wasn't so painful, was it Latif? ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll see when it is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oskar is on the west coast

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[03:40] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, in 1.38 there are several bugs with the avatar's permission system. I posted a jira about the animation permission.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[03:40] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it 11pm UK time ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[03:40] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, i know that the times its at 3hours stl ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[03:40] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is some debate about 1.38 to animation permissions here - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13228 - it seems like that it could break some content (personally - I hope that this fix is going to be committed)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i won't be much use by then I don't think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Imaze, I will look at it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we're running out of time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[03:41] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SVC-5521 animation permissons seem to be lost in the change event :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[03:41] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, me i think you are welcome ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we have big things to talk about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|first persistent storage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's clearly a big issue

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[03:41] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[03:41] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, on the subject of persistent storage, we've been told that we can use PRM_TEXT to that effect. AS some others have mentioned, when you shift-copy, float text is not copied. Is that a possibility to have changed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a lot of the desire for setting names, descriptions and float text is to have persistent, dynamic, storage for scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is OK, as a workaround

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[03:42] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage, yeah it is ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will only add about 6M to the simulator footprint if it's fully used

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[03:42] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When hasn't there been a desire for persistant storage? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's probably OK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we should probably do it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[03:43] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|somes issue give headhache in Bonus prime :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even though we'll end up with lots of prims called

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1,2,4,abc000....000def

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or whatever

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[03:43] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage; I don't think everyone plans on creating extensive prim databases. It's handy even with just one prim with float text.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and, when it means people use prims just to store data it's a waste

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, it's probably ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and easy to implement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[03:44] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|prim names/description requests are not mainly for the persistent storage. is for the flags for a central script for indentifying which part they belong to and how to get textured etc.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[03:44] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what you think about 2.0 server listing its for soon or not realy? ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the bugger question is whether LL should offer a product that provides larger scale persistent storage services

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SQL or NoSQL for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[03:44] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes please :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|traditionally we have kept out of that space

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[03:45] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|key/value store will be sufficient for most

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can go and set up S3 or a google app

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[03:45] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I believe someone asked that of Kelly, and Kelly's response was along the lines of, 'fat chance" X)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat203|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and store data there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat204|[03:45] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|simple key / string storage would be enough for most purposes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[03:45] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP overhead... yay...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[03:45] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Where shall we store data if not in a prim?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[03:46] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know ages ago there was lots of requests to get write access to notecards from scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a space for linden to provide a service between descriptions and the cloud?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think latency comes it to it a bit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and price and convinience

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[03:46] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, would a database be a viable "asset' that can be added to a prim?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[03:46] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd just make a new writeable prim type, a binary map so it doesn't have to be parsed on reading it back.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat213|[03:47] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, it's crazy to go to the cloud for simple flat persistence if there's no logic happening there.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we now have a product group, so we can potentially pitch it to them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[03:47] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yah, having to parse stuff each time is YUCK.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[03:47] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|++tillie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, if we were to use the asset store for this, it would potentially change its usage a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if scripts could create notecards for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[03:48] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's what I was talking about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then you could have all of the simulators generating data all day long

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat221|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and storing it as assets

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat222|[03:48] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, asset store is not good for this. Some new key/value store with an intergace simiral to memchached would be ideal

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[03:48] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|interface*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right latif, but we don't have that now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[03:48] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps THE asset store is not the place for storing mutable state. Another DB, more specialized and optimized for updates.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so it would be a big job to set up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[03:48] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A script could be used to store data, only NOT with the current implementation, cause you can hit a runtime error any time due to memory and then all is gone.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'd have to know what the market was etc.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[03:49] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so for now, use google app engine :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, yes, i think so

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i find it hard to believe that we can do a better job than the cloud in the short term

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and in some ways, it's good for us to be able to concentrate on SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[03:50] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's just tiring to have so much reliance on external services

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and for the cloud providers to provide storage services

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat235|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sierra, right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[03:50] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think seeing this as a marketable product is also slightly off of the intent... just something we can Put and Get from dataserver

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[03:50] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right now, I'm happy to get PRIM_TEXT, but the copiability of the float text is an issue.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|external web servers is a definite bump in ease of use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as a resident you can make a box, add a script, make it do something...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the learning curve is quite easy until you get to "now go and set up a Google App'

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[03:51] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: I dont want to rely on inworld tools that store their data outside SL. You never know how long they will exists.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[03:51] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exist

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[03:51] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Sebastean, but honestly i need to know if this parameter fixes the trouble on the viewer 2.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[03:51] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tillie, I have the same concern generally speaking.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[03:51] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tillei, I bet google app engine will be there for a while :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, maybe there is a space for the "easy to use interface to S3 or app engine" or whatever

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat247|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like that to be built by residents

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat248|[03:52] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In VWRAP, everything's going to be decoupled as a service anyway, so we can expect sub-services to be offered by third parties. The problem is interfacing that to LSL, since LSL is not going to change.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat249|[03:52] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even with Google Apps, I think Google expects to be paid

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hence, script libraries, our other topic :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[03:52] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yey

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[03:52] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's par tof the same problem I ahve with sound, heh. Everyone says "Media on a prim!" but it really doesn't answer all of sound's needs, and I'd prefer to have it based in SL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat253|[03:52] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: thought more of 3rd party storages, like everyone selling a product has his own webserver with DB behind it. That is no good.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[03:52] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See, the problem is that *my* google app *won't* be there forever, so anybody using my product will be screwed when I pull the plug

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[03:53] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yah.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL can evolve much more quickly using other peoples services than by us building them I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[03:53] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The same applies to any inworld storage, if it is tied to the creator's account.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[03:53] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie, you ca screw you customers up by deleting sure. But do no evil and leave it alone :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[03:53] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I can't *afford* to leave it up for everybody

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the multiple providers problem with many SLAs is a problem for all cloud apps

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[03:53] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People can get kicked from usage of google app usage, TOS, whatever, no?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[03:54] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie, app engine is free, easy to afford free

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[03:54] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I really don't think a floppy's worth of "filesystem" flat persistence is a lot to ask of a scripting language.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[03:54] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There can happen lots of...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat265|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure Linden would be able to provide a storage service with a better SLA than the other cloud providers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[03:54] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|app engine is free only for SMALL usage, Latif

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[03:54] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How much storage do you get for free?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat268|[03:54] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie++

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat269|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when you are selling an SL product that is a service

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(because it is using external storage)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[03:54] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|app engine gives you 10 apps for free, each with 1gb file store and 1gb database storage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then you need to be clear that's what you're doing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[03:54] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Shouldn't need to sell a product as a service simply due to lack of persistant storage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat274|[03:54] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie free for small usage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat275|[03:54] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you get 10gigs for free from google in 10 apps

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat276|[03:55] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dont like this term lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat277|[03:55] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sierra has a good point

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat278|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|an SL hat might be offered as a virtual object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but if it auto updates etc

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then it's a service

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat281|[03:55] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|virtual object created by all old resident ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat282|[03:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Scripting in Mono will diverge from scripting in LSL once we have libraries --- that will probably be when we can interface third party services. But Mono is sandboxed, so hard to see how we can hook in 3rd party services freely.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat283|[03:55] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: yah, buf it I buy a building tool, I want it still working if the creator left SL, cause he got bored, banned, whatever...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat284|[03:56] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tillie+++

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat285|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tillie, right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat286|[03:56] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with out old resident ll and second life are nothing ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat287|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's a hard problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your best bet is to only use open source LSL scripts in that case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[03:56] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And with the current TOS you can get banned quite fast, and with the current lag and other problems some people get bored/annoyed pretty fast, too. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat290|[03:57] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So the change of a creator being here 1 year after I bought an item from him, is... not so good.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[03:57] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chance

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[03:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will say lag isn't quite as much of an issue as it used to be. I remember times when it was much worse.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and for those reasons I imagine there will be lots of open source scripting libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat294|[03:57] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seb, you and I are using different SL lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[03:57] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, I'm fairly lag resistant, I spent most of my "second life" with 200-500ms ping :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some people will prefer them to libraries bought from people who might not be around

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[03:57] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Difficult to run a business selling scripted items with open source scripts in them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[03:58] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seb: lag, whatever... maybe his misunderstanding of "IP protection" thats not really possible in SL... lots of possible causes. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[03:58] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, every app that writes or reads a file must be seen as a service? Magic 8-Ball says "outlook is 'CLOUDY'"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat300|[03:58] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it is slower than llList2Integer(data,i); it lags

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat301|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, Mono is sandboxed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat302|[03:58] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, how would you imagine libraries being sold?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat303|[03:58] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Personally, I imagine I'll be creating my own libraries - simply because there I know exactly what's going on in them - and I like hands-on stuff :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat304|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but you will be able to right APIs to external web services

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat305|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|write, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat306|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, right, you can build your own libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat307|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and benefit from modularity and bytecode sharing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[03:59] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All I want is my tools still working in the future, and they need some storage for data. And storing data in a script is no good idea right now, as they break often.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but you could also sell them like any other script in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[04:00] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: That's what I envisioned it like

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat311|[04:00] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So from inside the script you would do something like LoadLibrary(UUID assemblyID) where assemblyID would basically be asset uuid of the compiled library?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat312|[04:00] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And use existing permission systems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat313|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or give them away or open source them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat314|[04:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In the case that something should happen to me, I'd be leaving all of my stuff, scripts and all, to Sierra. He'd be doing with them as he wished of course, but my scripts wouldn't be totally kaput.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat315|[04:00] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All these workarounds because LL cant figure out how to implement a mutable asset store?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat316|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(we're running out of time, but quickly here's how I imagine it)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you would put you library scripts in a prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat318|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|create a new script which just uses your library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[04:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and when you compile the sim will work out which assemblies your script can reference

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat320|[04:02] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sounds great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the prim provides the scoping

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[04:02] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What happens when you move the object?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat323|[04:02] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to another sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat324|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the libraries and script will be caried around with the prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat325|[04:02] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I imagine having LoadLibrary(UUID assemblyID) would be much more flexible without the need to include library into every object that uses it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat326|[04:02] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sounds good, follows a similar methology that is used sometimes by creating faux libraries via link messages

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat327|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which starts looking a lot like a package)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat328|[04:02] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In terms of usability I mean

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat329|[04:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sierra, right it's very similar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat330|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|except you don't need to do messaging

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat331|[04:03] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"using ..."?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat332|[04:03] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: Yes, hence why I said in terms of usability :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat333|[04:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: Apparently Linden doesn't respect open source licenses, according to the TPV document. Apparently you have a legal theory by which you can ignore the creator's wishes and legal rights if they license their content with open licenses like GPL or Creative Commons.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat334|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mojito the C

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat335|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|# keyword

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat336|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, that is a conversation to have with our legal department

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat337|[04:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i can't and won't comment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat338|[04:04] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will client side scripting be going the same was as another script item sold in a prim?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat339|[04:04] ]]
| Mojito Sorbet:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ohm, I was thinking something more like a mono library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat340|[04:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, it's 4 past

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat341|[04:04] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are there legal OHs?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat342|[04:04] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, we need to have that conversation at some point though (regarding TPV)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[04:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm going to get back to work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat344|[04:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat345|[04:04] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat346|[04:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and sorry I'm late

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat347|[04:04] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you, Babbage. Take care.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat348|[04:04] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat349|[04:04] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We should do it at the Linden Lawyer office hours :) Oh wait...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat350|[04:04] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat351|[04:04] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: we can't have a discussion with your legal department, they won't come out to play.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat352|[04:04] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat353|[04:04] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat354|[04:04] ]]
| Sierra Janus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat355|[04:04] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you babbage :)
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 03

2010-03-03T12:10:29Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[03:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey there Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[03:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[03:00] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[03:00] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mornin!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[03:00] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Mr. B

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[03:00] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, congrats on 1.38 hitting Agni!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[03:00] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[03:00] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|erm, Aditi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[03:00] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|beta grid

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[03:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm, let me see if I can sort out some light here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[03:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[03:00] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in b4 someone attaches a supernova facelight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat13|[03:01] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel! Yikes, isn't it some insane time of day for you?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[03:01] ]]
| Hypatia Callisto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have attached lights off... someone turned on the light and dropped it :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat15|[03:01] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|high noon it is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[03:01] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in fact, LUNCH tiem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[03:02] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|High lunch. :o

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[03:02] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, for some reason thought you were US based

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[03:02] ]]
| Hypatia Callisto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mm lunch. I just ate mine a few minutes ago :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[03:02] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|3:02AM. Yay for insomnia

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[03:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nope I'm in Brighton in the UK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[03:02] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|6am here, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[03:02] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|add a couple 1000 miles to my current location and you could call it that :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[03:02] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Xugu meant Squirrel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[03:02] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Erm, I meant Squirrel...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[03:03] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmms, there is an idea, a facelight that burns the face off of the avatar that is using it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[03:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, what would you all like to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[03:03] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool stuff!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[03:03] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[03:03] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's changed in 1.38? :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[03:03] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llGetAgentInfo -type functions?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[03:03] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cake

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[03:03] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat34|[03:03] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is 1.38?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[03:03] ]]
| Hypatia Callisto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|server

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[03:03] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So we can get viewer channel and reported version

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[03:03] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A server version with many good things

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[03:03] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[03:03] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This enhancement request http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5467

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[03:03] ]]
| Hypatia Callisto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mhm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[03:04] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any rough indication of when 1.38 will be released to agni? providing testing is ok of course

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[03:04] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh an slice on llSetPrimitiveParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[03:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[03:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else for the agenda?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[03:04] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[03:04] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lsl?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[03:04] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetObjectSCale

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[03:04] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[03:04] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llGetAgentInfo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[03:04] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about LSL functions?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[03:04] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will we see SVC-3895 fixed in 1.38?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[03:05] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's a reason I'm bringing it up again ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[03:05] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetPrimitiveParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[03:05] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am now supposed to start bugging you about memory limits, exp. scripts > 64k, now that 1.38 is on aditi. Lol. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[03:05] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*esp

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[03:06] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me ducks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[03:06] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think small scripts are coming before big scripts, aren't they?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[03:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, so 1.38, SVC-3895, LSL functions, llGetAgentInfo and Memory Limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[03:06] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or are you doing them at the same time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[03:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a reasonable list to start with

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[03:06] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, can I add http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5467

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[03:06] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SVC-3895?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[03:06] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993333;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64| ]]
| colspan="2"|[#SVC-3895] Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[03:06] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, 1.38 is now on aditi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[03:07] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I would like to add SVC-5328

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[03:07] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5328

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69| ]]
| colspan="2"|[#SVC-5328] llSetObjectScale and llGetObjectScale

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[03:07] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and i SVC-5419

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[03:07] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5419

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72| ]]
| colspan="2"|[#SVC-5419] Add flag parameter [vector slice] to llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_TYPE flags PRIM_TYPE_BOX, PRIM_TYPE_CYLINDER, and PRIM_TYPE_PRISM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(thanks for letting me know, I knew it was going to be this week, I didn't nkow it was there yet)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please go and have a play with the new functionality

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[03:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which kelly has written up here:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat76|[03:07] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Already started ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_TEXT: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PRIM_TEXT

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llGetLinkPrimitiveParams: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetLinkPrimitiveParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkTextureAnim: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetLinkTextureAnim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[03:08] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesome! :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llLinkParticleSystem: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlLinkParticleSystem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[03:08] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[03:08] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool beans.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[03:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please check the documentation is correct

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and either fix it or set up public JIRAs if it's now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[03:09] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm so so happy to hear llLinkParticleSystem made it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and if we need to fix anything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[03:09] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[03:09] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's great.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38 also includes partial fixes for SVC-3895

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[03:09] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2 fewer scripts on my jetpack :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[03:09] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Several in my builds.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[03:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you should now only see stalls the first time a Mono assembly is rezzed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(we're still working with the Mono developers to work out why that is)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also greatly increased the size of the assembly cache

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[03:10] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[03:10] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will the sim still lag out when people TP in?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So common scripts will tend to be cached in simulators

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[03:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which means they won't need to be loaded

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which means you should see far fewer stalls in practice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[03:11] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are you able to work around the lag via threading or some other magic?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[03:11] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wait: stalls the first time a Mono assembly is rezzed *anywhere*? or the first time in *each* *sim* it rezzes?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat105|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are some Mono fixes for these stalls coming down the pipe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So a full fix should happen when we deploy Mono 2.6.X at the latest

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie, first time per som

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[03:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[03:11] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesome

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[03:12] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah. that's unfortunate. :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, there's even more reason so share bytecode now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[03:12] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|DLLs for SL? :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[03:12] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[03:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The fewer distinct assemblies there are, the more likely they'll be cached

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[03:13] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.cpp and .h for lsl? :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, if you use the whizzy new LSL twitter library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat117|[03:13] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me waves quietly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat118|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Twitter_OAuth_Library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please don't recompile it :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[03:13] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me e-hugs morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[03:13] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.h is preprocessed before compilation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[03:13] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[03:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please test you lag detectors and mono rezzing tests on aditi and let me know how you get on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[03:14] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Emerald (which stole the idea from a C#-based project of mine) has preprocessors for LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you should only see problems the first time you rez a script now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[03:14] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat127|[03:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In terms of LSL functions, I've given you the documentation for the new functions in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat128|[03:15] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|back

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[03:15] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eb

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[03:15] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, could I bring something up concerning llSetObjectScale, while we're on LSL functions?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the only other functions I know of in the pipeline are :

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[03:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SVC-1773: STATUS_BLOCK_GRAB only affects individual prims in a linkset

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[03:15] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1773

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134| ]]
| colspan="2"|[#SVC-1773] STATUS_BLOCK_GRAB only affects individual prims in a linkset

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[03:16] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey look, Morgaine! Now we all look blue like you!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[03:16] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Blue is good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[03:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3306

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[03:16] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): [#SVC-3306] Add enumeration to llPassCollisions() to provide ALWAYS_PASS, PASS_IF_NOT_HANDLED, and NEVER_PASS as explicit options

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[03:16] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Red iz bezt </ork>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[03:17] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me is purple

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[03:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sebastean, I don't think we need llSetObjectScale now we have llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[03:18] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is it possible to read and/or change linked prim descriptions?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's actually what I'd like to talk to you about.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can just loop through the linkset setting transforms?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*copypastes*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[03:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which should be relatively efficient in Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, concerning http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5328, Kelly linden in the comments asked if the function was still necessary, since we have llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast and llGetLinkPrimitiveParams. The original poster goes into why he believes we still need a dedicated function, and I have to agree. For a 100 prim object, such a loop would require at minimum 300 function calls, supposedly in a single sim frame. There are other reasons as well, such as script space and setup.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[03:18] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): [#SVC-5328] llSetObjectScale and llGetObjectScale

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[03:18] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[03:18] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That also brings up issues of throttling the loop, and 100 prims is conservative for several objects.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat151|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|300 function calls should be OK, and will actually be made across several frames

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[03:19] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know for sure, but I think the functions that take LINK_SET run a loop internally anyway. I can see no significant difference between using LINK_SET and looping through the whole link set when sending link messages. <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat153|[03:19] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The loop requires a ton more setup than llSetObjectScale, and I know for my own use, it would make it much harder on a script already pressed for memory.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[03:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so transforming an object with many calls is better than stalling the sim by asking it to scale many prims in the same frame

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat155|[03:19] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, why have two different llSetLinkPrimitiveParams, where the only difference is sleep?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[03:19] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, can I ask, would it not have been a good idea to include the Slice parameters with cubes and cylinders in llSetPrimitiveParams fast, as breaking old scripts has been quoted as the reason why this hasn't been done before?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[03:19] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetObjectScale would be still nice to have - thought I think that you should be able scale invidually along axis if you want - for example llSetObjectScale( float scale, vector scalingfactors );

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[03:20] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does setting rotation even work with set linked params properly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fred, we have 2 functions as there will be scripts that rely on the old sleep behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we try not to silently change behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[03:20] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze: llSetObjectScale(vector scale) would probably be easier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we added a new function rather than changing the existing one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[03:20] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fred - ya

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[03:20] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: oh ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[03:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sebastien, the reason not to have llSetObjectScale is actually more philosophical

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[03:21] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|For me, the main concern is memory space taken up, and also throttling. The other problem is if people try to put that loop on a slider control - that could cause problems.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[03:21] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vector or just a float?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat168|[03:21] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vector

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[03:21] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vector

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[03:21] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[03:21] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[03:21] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat173|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would rather keep the ll* API surface area as small as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat174|[03:21] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can't actually scale more than one prim on arbitrary axes without changing the basic math of a prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[03:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(the bigger it is the harder it is to maintain and keep secure)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would rather add support for user libraries to allow you to implement llSetObjectScale in terms of llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[03:22] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe break it up into smaller modules?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[03:22] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fred that's just as much code to screen

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[03:22] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So you have LLPrim.SetScale(<x,y,z>)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather than have to add convinience library calls to make up for the lack or resident created libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[03:22] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But smaller files

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[03:22] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Easier to find what you're looking for if you're maintaining them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[03:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you lot are awesome, and there are many more of you than there are Linden engineers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of giving you a fish

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[03:23] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hence open source's many eyes win hehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd prefer to let you grow your own ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[03:23] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can i bang on about slice again please - it seems a big opportunity is being missed here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[03:23] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not to mention one could arguably do something analogous to python's import "something" or C#'s using Something.Something

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[03:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|while there are many "low hanging fruit" and easy convinience functions we could add

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[03:24] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, actually... speaking of shared compilation units, there needs to be exactly one of these resizer scripts in existence, if it's not a library function.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[03:24] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tell Q that, Babbage. He insists on keeping Firefly a state secret, and disallowing the many community eyeballs from having a say.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we already have 400ish library calls and adding new ones we don't need is terrifying

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[03:24] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need llSetScaleObject :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[03:24] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, it's the "don't need" that I would take issue with.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[03:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, that is Q's choice (and closer to the LL line too)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[03:24] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So opensource the Mono api so people can help maintain it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm sticking my neck out being as open as I am

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[03:25] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and also initially make fun of your programming practices.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[03:25] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes you need set object scale because local position needs to be changed too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[03:25] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fred, I would love to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[03:25] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me wonders if having a resizer script in the common Inventory Library might be helpful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm working on it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[03:25] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we really appreciate it, Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[03:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jonathan, having a resizer library would be wonderful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and once it's possible it can improve at "resident speed" rather than "LL engineer speed"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is much faster :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat208|[03:26] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then I can make server-side Lua instead of piddling around with client-side Lua >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[03:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's the sign of a good protocol API that it can be simple and change slowly while enabling a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HTTP only had 1 revision in the period when the web went from a hobby to the new economy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want to fix the underlying b0rkeness of the SL scripting platform

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[03:27] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So say we all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[03:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(allowing libraries, fixing the memory model, allowing other languages)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[03:28] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its more like javascript vs lsl rather than http vs lsl

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat215|[03:28] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather than add convinience functions that work around the b0rkeness

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[03:28] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh HTTP implements "give me bunch of bytes with this identifier" and "here you go", much easer not to have to change such a simple proto ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[03:28] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Still, having a library resizer script doesn't fix the problem of how much memory it takes up. I was tempted to write a "mock" resizer script using the loop and one with fake llSetObjectScale functions just to demonstrate that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[03:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agreed Latif, but the analogy stands I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, having a resizer library and bytecode sharing fixes that problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(both of which should be possible soon)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[03:29] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But not for a scripts limited memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure, if everyone is using the same resizing library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat224|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the memory costs of it are shared

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[03:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then it's not a problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[03:29] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I only have 64k to play with right at the moment - that doesn't leave me much wiggle room if the resizer is integrated with another script I'm doing.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[03:29] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|setting a scale of an object is much harder than simply enlarguing every link.. you have to calculate the position each link needs to be at

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[03:30] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[03:30] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You also have to calculate the max distance and min distance a resize can take it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[03:30] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's not the hard part really, that's just a % function

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[03:30] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its just math

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[03:30] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|checking each part can resize...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[03:30] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kopilo, it's far more complicated than that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[03:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, once you have bytecode sharing you will be able to write a script and send it a link message saying "change this size to blah"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[03:30] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and optimising...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[03:30] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Read the JIRA comments in what I linked.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[03:30] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes but then it shows you how much mroe the script needs to do to make it happen

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[03:31] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once you have proper libraries you will be able to just make a call LinkSet.Resize(float)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[03:31] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeap

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat242|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the cost of that library will be shared between everyone using resizing on the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[03:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which is probably every shoe and haircut in the region)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[03:31] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[03:31] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat246|[03:32] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm expecting I'll have to use a separate script for resizing, but I was hoping I wouldn't have to.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat247|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Using a separate script will be much less onerous when you don't have to send text messages to it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[03:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can can just say you're using it then make library calls to it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[03:32] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will the libraries be stored in rom?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[03:33] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*RAM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[03:33] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[03:33] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ew...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[03:33] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[03:33] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me shudders at the thought of scripters demanding to override libraries like polymorphic functions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[03:33] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My current script wouldn't be using the library script, exactly. I'd be needing to use a custom resize script that I'd write.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[03:33] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ROM = readonly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[03:33] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the *memory* cost will be shared, but the overhead of the multiple function calls per prim will hit every time the library function is invoked. Unless those function calls are at native speed, not bytecode.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[03:33] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|libraries are mostly just scripts with no flows of control

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat260|[03:33] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sheryl: But that's fun!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[03:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and no static data

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat262|[03:33] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie that's what I was afraid of.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat263|[03:34] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|print=function (hahaha) error("YOUR PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE HATES YOU") end

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|qie, the loop will be in JITed bytecode

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[03:34] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JITed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[03:34] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JIT = just in time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat267|[03:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the calls from managed to unmanaged code are fast

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[03:34] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just in time compiled

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[03:34] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jit = just in time - compiled to native processor code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[03:35] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, chatty APIs shouldn't be a problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(this is all in the simulator process, not across a network)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[03:35] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So even if I'm resizing a 256 object, 3 function calls per prim (just for resizing) won't cause it to break?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[03:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no, it shouldn't

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[03:36] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|perhaps now would be a good time to ask how the functions will be throttled.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and if it causes problems, I'd rather fix those problems than build a llMakeManyLibraryCallsInOneGo call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[03:36] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya... how those are going to be thrrottled?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[03:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, the library calls will just use up the scripts time slice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat279|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it will be able to make N calls per quanta

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[03:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|255*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat281|[03:37] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, do you plan to upgrade to mono 2.6 before the c# scripting? I'm really happy with the amount of resource leakage reduced in it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat282|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and so will need prims * 3 / N frames to do the resizing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, yes we're talking about that now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat284|[03:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we want to have as many distinct releases as we can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono 2.6.1 should be shippable in isolation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[03:38] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i bet it would help balooning mem usage a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[03:38] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I appreciate you discussing this with me Babbage, I know I've brought it up many times before.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no problem sebastean

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[03:38] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One other concern I have Babbage:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[03:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, hopefully TC Malloc will help us know where the ballooning memory is going

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[03:39] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The resize script will have problems if a prim in the linkset is edited outside of the script (by the user)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat292|[03:39] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because that would throw off is max/min size/pos calcuations.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[03:39] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|calculations*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat294|[03:39] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat295|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, isn't the common case here that you use resizing as a "partial mod" permission

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat296|[03:39] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not always

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat297|[03:39] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat298|[03:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in which case the object will be no mod to the user?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat299|[03:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat300|[03:40] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Could the user be using a resize script at the exact same time they are editing an object?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat301|[03:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|In my case, I have a system that allows one person to edit another person's attachments.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat302|[03:40] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not likely in the common case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat303|[03:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The person has to have mod rights in order for it to work, of course, because it needs to install scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat304|[03:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, so maybe you need a "Stand clear, rezing is about to happen" message?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat305|[03:41] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wasn't as much worried about concurrency, really.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat306|[03:41] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm worried about SET_ROT being broken

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat307|[03:41] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was more worried about the linkset being editied in between resizes. I don't want to have to "read" the linkset and recalcualte all of the max/mins before doing each resize.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[03:41] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you need to get root objects rotation to calculate local rotation properly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[03:41] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's one of the complications here.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[03:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you probably will have to scan in the case when you allow modifications

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat311|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you don't know what size everything is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat312|[03:42] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat313|[03:42] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the server does.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat314|[03:42] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning all.. (sips coffee)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat315|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sounds like you need a library ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat316|[03:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi JB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat317|[03:42] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey jb!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat318|[03:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually, what you really need is a scene graph, so you can adjust the size on the single root transform

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's the real way to get rid of scaning an many resizes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat320|[03:43] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[03:43] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(ignorant scripter here) -- could you use the changed event to see if someone has manually resized your object?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[03:43] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That takes up a lot of processing time as it is though Babbage. Having a loop to read and calculate all of those will eat up function calls before the resize even takes place.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat323|[03:43] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup, so when do we get direct access to the scene graph? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat324|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|scene graphs are a way off however ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat325|[03:43] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jon - unfortunately I don't believe so.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat326|[03:43] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's no "CHANGED" for linkset positions.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat327|[03:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sheryl, unfortunately there is no scene graph

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat328|[03:43] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|John- changed event occurs when the object resizes.. so prehaps

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat329|[03:43] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(tease ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat330|[03:44] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sadly, I know...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat331|[03:44] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure if it works for changed for a single child prim.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat332|[03:44] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: well we've been saying we need hierarchical ojects for years, and even Philip and Cory agree, so nothing new. But apparently you're not interested.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat333|[03:44] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SVC-93 mandates that when you set linked prim rotation too do [PRIM_ROTATION, localrot * llGetRootRotation()], changing rotations on an attachment would be challenging

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat334|[03:44] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-93

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6666CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat335| ]]
| colspan="2"|[#SVC-93] llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat336|[03:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, I'm very interested

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat337|[03:44] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think what Babbage is trying to say here is that the calls between managed and unmanaged code are fast, so it doesn't matter if a script is requesting prim info via llgetlinkprimparams of unmanaged code in the LSL api is fetching it from in the sim somewhere: it'll be about the same speed.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat338|[03:44] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its going to take viewer 3.0 to get scene graphs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat339|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but adding a scene graph would be a bit like changing planck's constant

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat340|[03:45] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Could someone select the non-blue sphere? 2.0 is making my prims disappear on me again.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat341|[03:45] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I typed that too late. X_x *hides*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat342|[03:45] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[03:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|quite a lot of the world relies on scene graphs not existing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat344|[03:45] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good to hear. But somehow I get the impression that you're the lone sensible engineer in LL, and everyone else has nothing but excuses for why progress is impossible.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat345|[03:45] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ouch.. something we want, but deeply entrenched...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat346|[03:45] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|... My prims do not want to stay visible.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat347|[03:45] ]]
| colspan="2"|Object: Hello, Avatar!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat348|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well progress is possible, but hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat349|[03:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We are getting some real progress here today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat350|[03:46] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Management?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat351|[03:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and some more good stuff is coming with scripting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3333CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat352|[03:46] ]]
| colspan="2"|Object: Changed Scale

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat353|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so the trick is to figure out which kinds of progress are easier and to make the most value for money changes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat354|[03:46] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Everything worthwhile is hard.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat355|[03:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me is happy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat356|[03:46] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Apparently changing the scale of a child prim does trigger the changed event.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat357|[03:46] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|However, I'd still need one for position.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat358|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|adding mono was hard, but now it's there adding C# is easy (relatively) for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat359|[03:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|adding scene graphs is hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat360|[03:47] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Agreed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat361|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|adding resizing libraries would be easier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat362|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(and get most of what you want)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat363|[03:47] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|except hinges :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat364|[03:47] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat365|[03:47] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how would you include a library? and where does it live?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat366|[03:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, we've got quite a long way off the agenda, let's see what else there was

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat367|[03:48] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, do you think a CHANGED_LINK_POSITION would be a viable JIRA? Or one for LINK_ROTATION for that matter?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat368|[03:48] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm considering using OpenSceneGraph, but the sheer size of it is....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat369|[03:48] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And avatar kinematics available via LSL! XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat370|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, a lot of that is up for discussion, let's talk about it next week :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat371|[03:48] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|include llscalelib; ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat372|[03:48] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, OK :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat373|[03:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, llGetAgentInfo, what was the question there?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat374|[03:48] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|May I ask if 1.38 will have any of those new features to see the memory usage of a resident, objects, etc, and if so, how could we use it? will we need a new viewer, or?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat375|[03:49] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi CG

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat376|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cerdita, yes, 1.38 should grant caps for script usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat377|[03:49] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cerdita, the features are in place, you can use viewer 2 on aditi, look in about land

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat378|[03:49] ]]
| Fred Rookstown:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it going to be implemented? Basically, are we going to have the ability to grab agent information (viewer channel/version)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat379|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, you should be able to test it on aditi now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat380|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|open up about land with viewer 2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat381|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you should see a script info button

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat382|[03:49] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is aditi?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat383|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me makes a note to go test it on aditi later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat384|[03:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the beta grid

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat385|[03:49] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|only parcel owner lat time i checked

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat386|[03:49] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, with viewer 2, I see, thanks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat387|[03:49] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|last*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat388|[03:49] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah never been

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat389|[03:50] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Under which tab Babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat390|[03:50] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I also dispute that it would be hard, nor disruptive, because there are ways of adding hierarchy that don't impact on current 1-level linksets and which don't modify current LSL --- in effect the current calls would be a subset that just applies within a node of the hierarchical tree. It wouldn't be the cleanest approach, but it would avoid breakage and be evolutionary.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat391|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, thanks latif, we've found a bug

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat392|[03:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat393|[03:50] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see no script info button

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat394|[03:50] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chaley, you will need to use ctrl alt G on the viewer 2 screen to make a grid selection drop down appear (the login screen)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat395|[03:50] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people dont need to find out what memory usage the items their buying use after they buy it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat396|[03:51] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need objects able to tell us their usage i think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat397|[03:51] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2.0 has a spelling error: "Primative Usage"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat398|[03:51] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat399|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chaley, I anticipate people will advertise memory usage when they sell objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat400|[03:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks sebastean :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat401|[03:51] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mms

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat402|[03:51] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah we need memory usage on edit object floater the same way we can see prims now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat403|[03:51] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is great progress

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat404|[03:51] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People telling us is not the same thing as the objects telling us

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat405|[03:52] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me mentions SVC-5467

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat406|[03:52] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5467

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat407| ]]
| colspan="2"|[#SVC-5467] Display a breakdown of script and URL usage per object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat408|[03:52] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"low memory usage" isn't a good marketing slogan

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat409|[03:52] ]]
| Hypatia Callisto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they will advertise when their stuff is laggy nonsense... never :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat410|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, thanks morgaine and latif

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat411|[03:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat412|[03:52] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|though I wonder how many scripts will be built around using more cpu for less memory?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat413|[03:52] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I like that JIRA Jon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat414|[03:52] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there an API for having the object send memory usage via a callback?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat415|[03:52] ]]
| Kopilo Hallard:
| style="white-space:normal;"|>_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat416|[03:52] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think hoping that people tell the script usage wont turn out so well

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat417|[03:52] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can we say that memory usage of an object is: number of scripts in an object*64K (if they are mono)?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat418|[03:52] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i can see on Aditi that my mystitool uses 3mb ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat419|[03:53] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People who mind their memory can advertise their memory usage. I'd be wary of people that didn't.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat420|[03:53] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat421|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cerdita, yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat422|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat423|[03:53] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any idea what per avatar limit would be babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat424|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, yes I have an idea, but I need to nudge Jack to tell people about it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat425|[03:53] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat426|[03:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it's his call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat427|[03:54] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not even a rough estimate?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat428|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there was a question about Big Script timing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat429|[03:54] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I'd really encourage y'all to focus on getting us code sizes larger than 64k for the next big thing. Aside from the primparams craziness, which you've fixed, trying to run RPC and shared memory over link messages just cos you can't exceed 64k code size is the next major LSL killer. :< Not only does it make for some seriously bloated code and resource hoggery, it's just plain hard to debug. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat430|[03:54] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it better be plenty :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat431|[03:54] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How can it be Jack's call to make a decision on a technical matter?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat432|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment I would like to ship script usage, then small scripts, then script limits, then big scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat433|[03:54] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ceawlin, I'd second that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat434|[03:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to have script limits before we allow people to reserve arbitrary memory sizes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat435|[03:55] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, true.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat436|[03:55] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, Jack's descision on the timing of disclosure of limits, not the limits themselves

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat437|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we don't want mono scripts to look unfairly bloaty when we ship script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat438|[03:55] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|liandra, its why I told you shared variables are scary, you want as few as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat439|[03:55] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good order... small scripts will let us back off on memory pressure

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat440|[03:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so it would be nice to have mono scripts be able to reserve a lower memory amount before script limits enforcement happens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat441|[03:55] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat442|[03:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: I certainly *hope* that's the case.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat443|[03:55] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know. But I can't afoid it in LSLwith anything of nontrivial size. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat444|[03:55] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|JB: my personal hope is that I would need fewer small scripts if I didn't have to split up functions over several different ones.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat445|[03:56] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will you store memory usage as an asset of the object so we can call it with llGetInventoryMemory or something?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat446|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, agreed, but there will be cases when many scripts is a nicer solution

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat447|[03:56] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or an essential one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat448|[03:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(you shouldn't have to break up scripts arbitrarily, but you should be able to)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat449|[03:56] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat450|[03:56] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sebastean - yes, and no. smaller scripts let me focus on things and run them with less state complexity

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat451|[03:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are there any plans of giving us some form of persistent memory storage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat452|[03:57] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's called notecards...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat453|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also there will still be scripts operating on doors that will hopefully just need to reserve a couple of KB or memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat454|[03:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Writeable, persistent memory storage ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat455|[03:57] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(must run, sorry I've been quiet. 1.38 looks fantastic though! See you all later)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat456|[03:57] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats called manual Saijanai

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat457|[03:57] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sai: notecards are not writable and will never be. So some other new types is needed.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat458|[03:57] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye Xugu

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat459|[03:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sebastean, that's a big topic let's cover it another day

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat460|[03:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All righty

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat461|[03:58] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|considering that many scripts are cobbled together from various other scripts until they barely do what they are supposed to do....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat462|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let me see if we can work through the other agenda items

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat463|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-546

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat464|[03:58] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): [#SVC-546] Makira been offline for some time.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat465|[03:58] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llHttpRequest + google app engine store FTW ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat466|[03:58] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif++, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat467|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5328

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat468|[03:58] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage - LSL API to query an object's memory usage.. not just through the V2.0 use?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat469|[03:58] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): [#SVC-5328] llSetObjectScale and llGetObjectScale

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat470|[03:58] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat471|[03:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5419

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat472|[03:58] ]]
| colspan="2"|JIRA-helper (left hip): [#SVC-5419] Add flag parameter [vector slice] to llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_TYPE flags PRIM_TYPE_BOX, PRIM_TYPE_CYLINDER, and PRIM_TYPE_PRISM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat473|[03:58] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm pretty sure I've heard of bots that serve notecards.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat474|[03:58] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes the slice parameter (/me starts up the record)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat475|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will look at the last one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat476|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we've talked about the others

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat477|[03:59] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could that not have been implemented with llSetPrimParamsFast?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat478|[03:59] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it wouldn't break existing scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat479|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, but see the comment on API surface area

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat480|[03:59] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast uses the same constants as llSetPrimitiveParams.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat481|[03:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll have a look and see if it makes sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat482|[03:59] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|speaking of persistent storage, I've always been tempted to write a simple http service on google app engine that allows us to do that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat483|[03:59] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be nice to be able to get/set linked prims description, I've heard it mentioned not sure if it made it in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat484|[04:00] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/me has one up, but nobody uses it. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat485|[04:00] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SHeryl it would need to implement a minimal bot as far as I know

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat486|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, times up: next time remind me that we're going to talk about persistent storage and libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat487|[04:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|With script versioning, one could add the SLICE component.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat488|[04:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat489|[04:00] ]]
| Actingill Igaly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|okies thanls

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat490|[04:00] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ceawlin, java or python?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat491|[04:00] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for having us :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat492|[04:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for your time and indulgence Babbage, I really appreciate it :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat493|[04:00] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for you time, babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9999CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat494|[04:00] ]]
| Sheryl Mimulus:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin isn't yours more of a dns lookup for http-in?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat495|[04:00] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: Java.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat496|[04:00] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you, Babbage. Take care :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat497|[04:00] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, thanks for your time and for the cool new stuff in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat498|[04:00] ]]
| JB Hancroft:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks, Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat499|[04:00] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage.
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 02 24

2010-02-24T12:16:06Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:06] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:06] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be better if it was a brighter color

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:06] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[3:06] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:06] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning everyone :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:06] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's lovely here in Brighton today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[3:07] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Give us some good news about scripting...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure, the non-transparency of the chat windows is a Fail, because it obscures the view. But the right-hand bar does not obscure the view because it resizes the view, so it;s an improvement. (But done badly)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[3:07] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's cloudy in Tamworth. :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[3:07] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cloudy in leicester too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Babbage! We thought you were in the US doing SL Pro :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[3:07] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wouldn't mind it if I were able to get rid of it... totally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[3:07] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi morgaine, no I'm in the UK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unfortunately my SL Pro talk is at 4PM today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat19|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I'll be up late tonight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[3:08] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i guess it would defeat the purpose of SL if he had to travel to the US to do SL Pro

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat21|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OTOH, it gives me a good few hours to get my talk sorted

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[3:08] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ouch. Well welcome to the body clock suffering we have too :-(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat23|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, what do you want to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[3:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Client-side scripting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat25|[3:09] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, can you tell us if there is still known permission exploit threat? im hearing rumours about yes and no

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[3:09] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything but client 2.0...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat27|[3:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have you read the immense thread on client-side scripting in opensource-dev, Babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've seen the immense thread, I haven't read through it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I shouldn't talk about client side scripting as I'm not working on it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[3:10] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are you at liberty to talk about it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[3:10] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just trying to keep it compatible with the server side scripting I'm working on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm going to keep the topics covered here to the projects I'm working on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat34|[3:11] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: well that's the problem. It has no business being compatible with the server side, because that doesn't meet user requirements

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm happy to be open about those, but I shouldn't speak for other projects I'm not working on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what I'm interested in is improving the server side second life scripting experience

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and there's a lot of low hanging fruit there, so that's what I'm working on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[3:12] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some kind of client side scripting would be useful at some point in the future

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I'm trying to make sure that the server side scripting plays nicely with that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[3:12] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to know what the proposed dates are for limiting scripts per parcel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[3:12] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, nobody really touched scripting on the server for the past 4 years or so

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[3:12] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you mean like direct communication from server side scripts to client side? instead of client intercepting things?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[3:12] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|except for http-in

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat45|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and http-out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[3:13] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, but it does feel like like scripting is neglected child

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat47|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, so I'm trying to fix that now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[3:13] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and have been lobbying for it internally for a while

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[3:13] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how is the c# scripting project coming?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[3:13] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it possible to comment on when we will be able to view script memory usage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, so, C# development update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|script usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[3:14] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well this is the summary of the user requirements for client-side scripting, it covers all types --- the two indented blocks, ignore rest of post -- https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/000173.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any other agenda items?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[3:14] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to know what the proposed dates are for limiting scripts per parcel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[3:15] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shared media in SL2 - how is it scripting working? can you hide all control panels? can you use with HUDs?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[3:15] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This might be of some interest http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimMediaParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any more? c# script usage shared media?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[3:17] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will do nicely

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, let's get going

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[3:17] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I vote for the shared media topic too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[3:17] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|may be SVC-3895?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[3:18] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can display a webpage from localhost but not sure how to combine that with scripting right now. The only thing I've gotten so far is touch to work via the right-click menu

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, C# update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byron is currently getting Mono 2.6.1 embedded in the simulator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|our current sprint is to enable the CoreCLR sandbox in the simulator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we're making the changes to the simulator to turn the sandbox on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then investigating the Mono tuner tools

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:20] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono 2.6.1 has finally made it into Gentoo unstable/test I see

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which modify the Mono .NET framework to produce the Silverlight profile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we plan to use the same machinery to produce an SL profile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will likely be a subset of the Silverlight 2.0 profile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|minus the GUI frameworks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[3:21] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A Mono profile is a package of configs? Or something else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat77|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but hopefully including things like collections and XML/JSON libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[3:21] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or are you talking about profiling?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a profile in this context is a set of class libraries available on a platform

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[3:21] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, is more like a platform target

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let me get you the link to the Silverlight 2.0 profile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[3:22] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aha. Like a Cg profile, kk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|here's the silverlight 2 profile http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc838194%28VS.95%29.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'd like to expose as much as we can from that profile

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to know your thoughts on which pieces you'd find useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and which would be problematic

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, there is internal discussion on that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[3:23] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, do you plan to reuse the same user mode microthreding implementation with opcode injection that you use for LSL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[3:24] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nothing that isn't standardized in ECMA, period. I'm sure you know why.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as well as investigation in to how to use the machinery to produce the annotated and tuned assemblies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in addition to the subset of Silverlight 2.0 APIs there will obviously be access to the ll* methods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those will be exposed as public static methods as they need to be accessible from non OO languages like LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(you'll still be able to build OO wrappers of course)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're considering whether we want to implement some of those wrappers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and also designing the interfaces for Vectors and Quaternions that will be exposed to C# scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are already Vector and Quanternion classes used under the hood by LSL scripts running on Mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but as you'll be using them directly in C# we need to carefully consider the APIs for convinience and public consumption

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[3:27] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|big issue will be better string-handling/parsing classes I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, parsing and formatting is a big deal

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as LSL is a DSL in the sense that it has native support for Vectors, Quaternions and Lists

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[3:28] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|standard c# string class will do nicely there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we want to make sure we have a slick API for those types in C#, so that working with them is not more painful in C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[3:29] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some method for reading in a full notecard and breaking it down into key/value pairs would take a lot of code off my stuff, actually...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we use the standard C# string class for strings

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat105|[3:29] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People will be able to use their own class libraries for portable stuff like strings and lists and parsing, so you don't need to provide that. Indeed, providing it will be very bad, since it'll make you non-standard.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[3:29] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, about events, I trust we can have native c# style for events like touch?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[3:30] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, I disagree. standard libraries for SL-specific stuff would be very useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and a wrapped C# string class for Keys so that we can differentiate between strings and keys in Lists

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're currently using ArrayLists for Lists

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:30] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sai: I'm not talking about SL-specific stuff. I'm talking about string and parsing, which is generic

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[3:30] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, a notecard parser is SL-specific, for example.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but may use object arrays instead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as in many use cases you build lists of literals

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and so initialise an object array to just pass to an ArrayList constructor

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[3:31] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A notcard parser is NOT needed. Just a notecard to string function. Then use standard C# for manipulating the strings.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[3:31] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, given the memory constraints we really do need SL-specific stuff

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, we still need to add parsing and formatting for Vectors and Quaternions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[3:31] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, agreed, because those are SL-specific.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they should both implement IFormatable and or ToString for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[3:32] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison has scripts that use something like half their memory allowance just for notecard parsing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you get something better than "Vector" when you cast to string

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[3:32] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, perhaps take a look at our implementation in libomv. It's opensource and BSD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[3:32] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|public static bool TryToParse( string str, out Vector vector );

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[3:32] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have all SL specific types implemented, Vector, Quat, Color, UUID, etc

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, if we are able to expose XML and JSON parsing from the Silverlight APIs that will enable easy notecard parsing as well as internet interop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, I will definitely look at the opensim implementations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat127|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which is presumably what you're refering too?)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could you point me to the docs/source?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[3:34] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, yes opensim uses libomv's types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[3:34] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[3:34] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage; I like the theory, but we need formats that are easy for people to understand. Being able to give a parser a notecard of "key=value" pairs, a list of valid keys and their types, and it does the validation would save a lot....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[3:35] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: does Opensim use libomv as a dependency, or have they just grabbed a snapshot of your code?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, hopefully we will get to the point where you will be able to share libraries in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[3:35] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean an external dependency

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we'll also factor bytecode sharing in to memory use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[3:35] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison nodnods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then you could write your key==value parser

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sell it or give it away

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[3:35] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morg, they use snapshot that gets updated from time to time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[3:36] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk, tnx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then if lots of scripts use it on the same sim, they will share the memory use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's where we are will C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|implementing the CoreCLR sandbox, upgrading to Mono 2.6.1 and designing the C# API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there will be a few more details in my SL Pro talk later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and in the talk I gave at FOSDEM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat147|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the video of that talk should be online soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[3:37] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's cool stuff. Stay away from Silverlight stuff that isn't in ECMA though, as it will result in much handw

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the slides are currently here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[3:37] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|handwringing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.slideshare.net/JimPurbrick/building-the-virtual-babel-mono-in-second-life

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, good point Morgaine, I will look in to the ECMA standardisation of the libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will try to keep as close to LibOMV and opensim as I can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whenever it makes sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, next up, script usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[3:39] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool :) feel free to ping me if you have any questions about our implemenation of sl primitive types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we are shipping the final code for exposing script memory and URL use in server 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once that's shipped we will start granting the caps to vewier 2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat159|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the script usage UI will appear

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it will be under about land>objects>script infor

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[3:40] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still can't see videos in html media on a prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the details you see will work in the same way as with prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[3:40] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of hte rest of you with SL 2 viewers can though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[3:40] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(have to run, have a good morning everyone!)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[3:41] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to know what the proposed limits are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[3:41] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|per parcel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you're a region owner or estage manager you'll see all of the scripts in the region

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|parcel owners will see scripts for all of their parcels

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|everyone else will see summaries as with prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat170|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in this iteration, Mono scripts will show as using 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and LSL scripts will show as using 16KB of memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, once we ship Small Scripts you'll be able to reserve less memory for Mono scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[3:42] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will the limits be on memory usage or run time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[3:42] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, it would be very useful if per object memory usage is expesed on edit object window in the same way primsa are done now, so a customer can checkout object for sale and see how much memory is used

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on average they only use 9KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm, nice point latif, I will mention it to jack

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[3:43] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm afraid just having summary on the about land will not be sufficient

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat178|[3:43] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif^2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[3:43] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes that is a very very good suggestion Latif

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[3:43] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What Latif said

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[3:44] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that stats will show memory usage then and not run time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[3:44] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can scripts increase their memory use dynamically, though?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the first iteration of script usage is intended to get exactly this kind of feedback

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we want everyone to be comfortable with it before we start doing any enforcement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|qie, scripts will be able to change their reserved memory size at run time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(if they're running on Mono)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if you have a simple door script you might reserve 4KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you need to parse XML from a web service you might reserve 1MB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, shared media

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[3:45] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|okay, so... Latif's suggestion won't reflect that dynamic usage potential, right?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[3:46] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would it also possible to get more accurate tools that allow us to monitor script memory usage when developing scripts - beyond llGetFreeMemory?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[3:46] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(I mean, I sell scripted object X, which shows w/ 4KB script usage, that bloats to 64K in use)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[3:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Qie, as far as I understand, script memory usage reservation will be on compile time, and not a function you call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[3:46] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This reservation stuff, it's not going to be manual, is it? Harks back some 50 years, when you had to state how much stack you wanted manually.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[3:47] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[3:47] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's why I asked..."[03:45] Babbage Linden: qie, scripts will be able to change their reserved memory size at run time"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|qie, in practice i think few scripts will dynamically change memory usage, because people will want to know how much they need up front

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[3:47] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, then my understanding was flawed xD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[3:47] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe... okay. nevermind.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as people will want to set up land, and leave it, expecting their scripts to keep running

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we'll have to see

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat203|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is also the interesting question of what happens when a script runs out of memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSO scripts will just stack/heap collide as normal

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono scripts _could_ potentially just reserve more memory if it's available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat206|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I don't know if that's a good thing or not

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to know what your thoughts are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[3:49] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it has to be a good thing otherwise people will be forced to use another script to set active when they need

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[3:49] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just means more to do

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[3:49] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dynamic changing of memory usage has a bad side effect on land owner's not knowing how many objects they can have

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people are used to getting an X prim object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat213|[3:50] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if people have to send all this large amount of information through link messages your going to have problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, that X prim object could always dynamically rez more prims...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[3:50] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I could see dynamic changing being useful during development--you start out small and see what amount of memory the finished script needs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[3:50] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if I buy object A thinking it uses 512k and then it jumps to 4mb on me without knowing, and I am unable to rez more scripts, it would create WTF factor

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[3:50] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbagem rezzed prims are easy to see

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, do we need to enforce that in the platform?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or will people just end up avoiding bloaty objects?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:51] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a tough one to call xD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:51] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do parcels have a setting that allows/disables dynamic memory allocation?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:51] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dynamic changing of memory could be object property - owner could then disallow scripts in object to allocate memory - or maybe set quota for them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|qie, not right now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:52] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I meant as an option for future, but Imaze is probably better: per object, not per parcel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:52] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suggest that automatic acquiring of as much memory as needed be used, but allow people to set a limit above which auto allocation is blocked. That would force heavy users to think, but still provide a friendly environment for everyone else.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is an excellent discussion of the corder cases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|corner cases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[3:52] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when creators make scripts and sell them they should be encouraged to start advertising how much memory they use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll make sure gisele and jack see it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[3:53] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|otherwise we wont know until after we buy a script if we can use it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|chaley, yes, I think that will happen

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|again, how much needs to be in the platform?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|memory use information in xstreet?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|something else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[3:54] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think current memory usage on edit window is crucial, as it will cover 90%+ cases where scripts will not dynamically use more methinks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[3:54] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|object memory usage when editing object - and - maybe allow to set maximal memory allocations for objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[3:55] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I do not think memory usage atttacks the issue of the overuse of scripts in sl. It sounds like memory usage will be limited, but there has been no talk on limiting runtime. A small script using little memory can cause a lot of runtime with a few functions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[3:55] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to be able to see memory usage while in inventory i believe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we only have a few minutes left

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, last topic, shared media

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you saw, the documentation is here http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimMediaParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat243|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unfortunately most of the shared media work was done before efficient scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat244|[3:56] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a general problem with inventory though, that no metadata is visible for anything. Big weakness of inventory model.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat245|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we may have to do an extra pass here to add the shared media params to the efficient scripts project

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that should be OK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[3:57] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I agree about the weakness in inventory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, I agree, the lack of metadata on inventory and assets is a big problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat249|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are various projects working on that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[3:58] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oops

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they're not my projects, so I'm not going to talk about them ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[3:58] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those functionos are lacking in the permissions department, also inability to specify no toolbar is missing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat253|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, 1 minute left

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[3:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: cool, that could be very worthwhile. Those groups need to liase with VWRAP though, because metadata is going to be accessible by protocol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is someone going to post the transcript to the wiki?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[3:59] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is the runtime going to be limited? or just memory usage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[3:59] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah I will.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks nock

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[3:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Nock

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|leia, memory first, hopefully CPU later

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|CPU is actually less of a problem as it is limited per frame already

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whereas memory is currently unbounded

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[4:00] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so the projected date to have a fair share sim is years down the line then ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[4:00] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, i guess swapping on memory overusage is what kills sim performance the most

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat265|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, 4AM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[4:00] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: is there a video of your SL Pro! talk, or just those slides?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[4:00] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i thought each sim has its own cpu

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[4:01] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i mean core

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|last thing: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[4:01] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so is not affecting others

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lots of changes are going in to 1.38 for this

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[4:01] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fair share usage in the SIM ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so only the first rez of an assembly stalls the sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat274|[4:01] ]]
| Leia Lulu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and now it is going to cloud computing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat275|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm working with the mono folks to see if we can get that stall to go away

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we may have to wait for Mono 2.6.x to get rid of all the stalls

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat277|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the meantime the changes in 1.38 will make a big difference

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat278|[4:02] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i see limits and think it all means that not everyone will use what they are entitled to so a lot of resources go unused

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat279|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it also increases the amount of assemblies cached in each sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the chances that an assembly needs to be loaded for the first time are much lower too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[4:03] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mono 2.6.x has much improved garbage collector, some of my apps that were slowly leaking memory seem to have been cured with 2.6

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great news latif :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat283|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, I should go an write an SL Pro talk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[4:03] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[4:03] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Take care Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[4:03] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[4:03] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage. Take care :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[4:03] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[4:03] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[4:03] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[4:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: great news! I hope the Opensim peepes test that soon. Linux is very second rate on that currently with 2.4 Mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[4:04] ]]
| Chaley May:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 02 17

2010-02-17T12:13:46Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:04] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:04] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|greetings, Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:04] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[3:04] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lenovo business series have a trackPoint

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:04] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but yeah, there's a discoverability issue with the mousewheel zoom too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:04] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the best mouse aalternative i ever seen

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[3:04] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[3:04] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mornin' Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[3:04] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good day

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[3:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how is everyone today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[3:05] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haaaa! AT last some good news... Let's hope

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[3:05] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow, lots of people showed up while I was afk. O_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[3:05] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tired and cranky? =/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[3:05] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pretty good. New Snowglobe build I have is working beautifully. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry to hear that void

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:05] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll get over it, but thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, let's get an agenda together, what would people like to talk about today?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[3:05] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|versioning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[3:05] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[3:06] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What broke the last sim update? :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[3:06] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[3:06] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Efficient scripts on aditi, if they are not there yet. My usual spammery. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[3:06] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|versioning, how long you are going to support old versions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, last sim update, efficient scripts, versioning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat27|[3:07] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you need couple lights to your office, it is very dark

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i just turn the sun up liisa

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat29|[3:07] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm always curious about C# and Mono if there is time, but I am more interested in the other stuff at the moment. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[3:07] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is noob

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, yes, good idea

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[3:07] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[3:07] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya... and chair that is scripted such way that only you can sit on it :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[3:07] ]]
| Simon Kline:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shift - ctrl - Y lisa :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[3:07] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A throne of sorts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if anyone can find some lovely steampunk lights, i'll happily buy some and set them up here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat37|[3:08] ]]
| Pete Olihenge:
| style="white-space:normal;"|More seats too..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[3:08] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll bring ya some next time I come by....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663333;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat39|[3:08] ]]
| Identity Euler:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just a sec I will find one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[3:08] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(of course a scripter's meeting would have no facelights. :p )

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[3:08] ]]
| Simon Kline:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're going to need a grand stand at this rate hehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[3:08] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol Qie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[3:08] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I could probably -make- some lights if I knew a particualr design to work around. <. <

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, that's 4 agenda items, let's start working through them and see where we get to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat45|[3:09] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gas lamp ok?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the 2 issues that I'm aware of causing problems in the last release are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-914

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:10] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://blogs.secondlife.com/message/93928#93928

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and another that doesn't have an external JIRA

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[3:11] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooooh souper sekret SEC jiras. O_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it was a well intentioned change that had some unintended consequences

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[3:12] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya mean it exposed stupid logic bugs... =)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since the incident we have set up an internal team to review all LSL changes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|void, no trolling please

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we got pretty good at understanding the consequences of LSL changes while we were working on mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[3:13] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sry, I only meant the referenced code...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we've hired a number of new developers since then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and so need to spread the knowledge of how to work with LSL across the lab

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's what we're doing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the new team will review all changes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[3:13] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how would a review detect this problem, though? could you really anticipate that there'd be so much code dependent on this bug?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, hopefully the team would have recognised this consequence

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we were working on mono we tried hard not to change behaviour silently

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|triggering a new event without changing the scirpt is new behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[3:15] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|okay. well, to be honest, I like the "review" approach better than any alternative that comes to mind.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this change wouldn't have met those criteria

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[3:16] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then again you could say the pilot rollout was successful in that it exposed a potential grid-wide problem, right? So that worked out well.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as cg says on the blog we really need versioning here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[3:16] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|checking for the appropriate event is good scripting practice. not checking = self owned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat70|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, changes that silently change behaviour would be made to a new version of the library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|new scripts could choose to use them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|old scripts would continue to use the old version of the library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[3:17] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will we be on hold for LSL fixes pending versioning?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|void, not nescecarily

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[3:17] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What happens when there are 5000 scripts in a sim all using 5000 different libraries though? That sounds like massive memory wastage to me. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|silent, non-critical bug fixes will be on hold

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sometimes we have to make changes to close security issues

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a matter of understanding the consequences

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[3:18] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can you give an example of the type that would be on hold?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[3:18] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|think it will more break down into "LSL before" and "LSL after".. hoping the new changes will be made consistent with each other

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now, versioned libraries are actually supported by Mono in the simulator right now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the correct way to make this fix would have been to version the library and make all new scripts link against the new version

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, that only works for Mono scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is still OK, we should have said, if you want this new, fixed behviour, recompile your scripts to this new version of the library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or rather, recompile, which will now link your scripts to the new library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then it is no longer a silent change

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you have to recompile and opt-in to the new behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[3:20] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One thing that I have often wished for is a better way to be able to update scripts in-place on deployed objects, preferably without object owner interaction. As things currently stand, when one wants to update a product, the only options are to deploy an entirely new product, or have a +mod product and deliver an updater widget. I'd be 100% cool with behavior changes, if only there was an easy way to fix all the objects that are bouncing around there in the world after the fact.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all other scripts work as they have been

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will make sure this gets communicated internally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[3:21] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that part sounds lovely... no more separate updates to script calls and legacy mess... how long are we talking about?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we can do it now, i will send an email round

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we will want to batch fixes to avoid the 5000 libraries issue mentioned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, a new LSL library version every server release would be OK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[3:22] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you understand the effects on sim performance to have, say 20-30 versions of the library in use on a sim?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[3:22] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as Ceawling already said - versioning raises another problem - how long to support old versions? we can't support them forever, because then we would evenutually have hundreds different versions around.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sasun, it would be the equivalent of having another 20-30 scripts running

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[3:22] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would love to know that scenario has been tested

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[3:22] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will there be ways to force legacy libraries? or detct their (lack of )usage for retirement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we can scan assemblies for dependancies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we could fire up warnings saying that a script is using an old version of the library pending deprecation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[3:24] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so... if some user has a mod object and recompiles an embedded script, they'll automatically get the newest library version? (or how will scripts specify which version they're to compile with?)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[3:24] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yea, I personally don't think it will be feasable to support angient libraries into the far future. There's a point where some old content has to just be broken, or things will get all crufty and out of hand in the codebase, I'd think. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[3:24] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*ancient

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|qie, at the moment, without UI changed scripts would compile against the latest whenever recompiled

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is probably the easiest policy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[3:25] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am cool with that and all, don't get me wrong. I think it's gotta be done eventually. I just wish there was a better way to deal with that kinda stuff on our side. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i agree with the discussion of auto updating

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's very hard to update now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat110|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but a much bigger project

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat111|[3:26] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, amen to auto updating!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and also agree that we'd need to have some policy about retiring old versions of the library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these issues will come up in the C# development too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[3:26] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|force-recompile on rez when you are n versions behind ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[3:27] ]]
| Pete Olihenge:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How will this affect the timing of other expected critical fixes?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be good to be able to specify library versions there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:27] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about a llRecompile() function

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pete, normally if something is a critical fix, we just make the change

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[3:27] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to have a script able to create and compile other scripts after fetching some source code (or even an assembly) from some place or other. HTTP perhaps. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if something is crashing the sim, it's OK to fix it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[3:27] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope C# will allow me to finally use a proper PRNG

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as the sim would crash anyway

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[3:27] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|last biggie question for me... what types of fixes (I already assume lso ones) will likely be on hold? I can assume not SEC or similar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's more difficult to fix something that is broken but relied on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[3:28] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.. llRecompile()? Talk about heavy load on the sim if used wrong..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a bug that has become a feature

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think manual recompilation is better

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:29] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llRequestCompile?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|having a scripting actually able to see errors and test output is a good thing ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[3:29] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gotcha, so changes to things like posJump are off the list for now...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[3:29] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with the user having to OK it ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[3:29] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's actually happy news

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wouldn't want to automatically recompile my scripts live and just hope they worked ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I would like to be able to recompile a script, test it and then say, this is a new version of script foo, distribute it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or have an llCheckForUpdate("MyScript");

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[3:30] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dont see no need for recomipling each script.. they just need a better way to replace compiled scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or something

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[3:30] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these days recompiling creates a new asset anyway..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we're half way through the hour and have done 1 topic

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[3:30] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like editing a notecard does..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let's move on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[3:30] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good discussion though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, next up we had efficient scripts status

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's still on course for 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and kelly has been pulling in some of the nice to have features we had on the backlog

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[3:32] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry but, I have to ask..... What's the latest guesstimate of the date it'll be on ye ole beta grid, do you know? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[3:32] ]]
| colspan="2"|Questar Utu thinks it would be nice to see script time even as a non-sim owner/EM, to test script efficiency.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[3:32] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|make sure you add sonething in so everyone can check their *own* script run times and such

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[3:32] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about version and compilling controlling with the already well known method like w3c (<!DOCTYPE lsl PUBLIC "-//LL//DTD XLSL 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://Sl-Page/-strict.dtd">)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llLinkParticlesystem is now done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and llSetLinkTextureAnim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat155|[3:32] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooo cool.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[3:32] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[3:32] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, superb!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[3:33] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkText()?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and LRIM_TEXT

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[3:33] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Goood!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[3:33] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*wow*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[3:33] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.. Link particles.. Hooh boy that's not going to turn out well..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_TEXT, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[3:33] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[3:33] ]]
| colspan="2"|Nya Raymaker grins happily

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[3:33] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow this is like christmas

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all of these things are doable now, but require lots of scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[3:33] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParams([PRIM_TEXT,"",<0,0,0>,1]); ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[3:33] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or something like that?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast([PRIM_TEXT,"",<0,0,0>,1]); yes ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[3:34] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llLinkParticlesystem has already some erros... isnt done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[3:34] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Still aiming for sometime this for testification of that? Or is it already on aditi and I missed it? >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[3:34] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*this month

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[3:34] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|net get's for all the exclusive sets, and set's for all thexclusive gets.... but I'm sure you've already heard that complaint ;) (exception for script pin)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[3:34] ]]
| colspan="2"|Object: Hello, Avatar!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will find out what the beta plan date is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[3:35] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thankies. ^_^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[3:35] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seriously? llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast()? Couldn't you find a longer name?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once it's through QAR it will go on to the beat grid

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[3:35] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any way to set text on a prim in a linkset where the prim has a distinct name?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|squirrel, no it's all by link number

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat182|[3:35] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how about the equivalents to actually get these link prim parameters?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat183|[3:35] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aww.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you could set up a mapping though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[3:35] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Change it to an acronym! :D llSLPPF()

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[3:35] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFasterThanTheOldOne

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[3:35] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eh, I can live with that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[3:35] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|link numbers tend to get jumbled up when unlinking and relinking

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[3:35] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, Aimee :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[3:35] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel: I usually scan the link set and generate a hash map for that at init time.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[3:36] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee, don't give ideas. :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|suc(name) -> return name + "MoreOssm!!!i!!"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[3:36] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[3:36] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|o_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[3:36] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is why gettign the link params is something I'd like

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[3:36] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya. I generate a map too but would like to see that memory waster gone :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nya, yes there is a GetLinkPrimitiveParams too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[3:36] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why dont they just use the old name.. its not like it would break anything and in most cases it would make peoples creations work better without them having to do anything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[3:36] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Make a hash map instead of a string map. Fast searches, little memory use. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[3:36] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|out of curiosity, will these eventually be tied into versioning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[3:37] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFasterThanLight :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[3:37] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you still have somethign to check back on.. ah okay ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, use a System.Collections.Hashmap...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat204|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, so that's where efficient scripts is, I will check the beta date

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[3:37] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am waiting hungrily for the day, Babbage. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:37] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFasterThanYouCanTypeIt, I think was my favourite

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[3:37] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llFindLinkPrimNamed("prim_name") whch returns the link number?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|next, is versioning, which we covered a lot in the sim update discussion I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything more we should discuss there?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[3:38] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.. and memory limit UIs?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[3:38] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sort of....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[3:38] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we now need a way to build gestures that will go into the edit window, so you can program keys to spit out these long names

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[3:38] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llGiveback();

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[3:38] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the versioning wil not only be an issue for people who actually can write a script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat215|[3:38] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I want a commemorative rolling-restart bear!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[3:38] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but if a version is retired that is being used in stuff out there... then fashion addict x suddenly has stuff that does not work...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|by versioning were we talking about script versioning? or auto-updating?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[3:39] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those who buy full mod scripts will have problems :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, any auto-updater needs to be optional

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[3:39] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and sending them a "your script xyz has been retired" message will.. cause wide spread confusion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Your thing will stop working when LL deprecates script library 2.5 would you like to update..."

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:39] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your script xyz is too old. please obtain a more recent version

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:40] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd prefer to just see some stuff in the API that we can use to write our own updaters appropriate to the situation, rather than being locked into some particular LL provided system, no offense. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:40] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|'is broken, buy new one"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:40] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"install opensim to see the script working"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:40] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your animation override script suffers from the same error most other ao scripts suffer.. missing animations cause script error spam :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[3:40] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How are memory limits coming together?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, well you can write scripts that phone home, find out about updates, request them then delete themselves now, it's just painful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[3:41] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yea, but they all require owner interaction to rez a delivered updater, and for the object being updated to be +mod.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[3:41] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, so that's what we're talking about fixing here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[3:42] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|May I introduce a new topic? Any news about [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 SVC-3895]? how is it progressing?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[3:42] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've tried to convince various clients that making their objects -mod doesn't do anything to stop piracy, but a lot of them still like to -mod their stuff, and then it is hell time when I have to update stuff. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[3:42] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will these pretty new fast functions with extremely long names be replacing the old built in delayed ones under the versioning sytem? it'd certainly ease teaching overhead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[3:42] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|basically.. this will run down to having even the smallest item delivered with a proof of purchase so people can get updates from a vendor server if soemthign gets abandoned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|void, it's certainly an option...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|discussion to continue

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right let's quickly finish the agenda, then we can add new stuff

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# and mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're just starting a new sprint now to add the moonlight coreclr security features to the simulator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[3:43] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cerdita, look at 3:34 here http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2010_02_10

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[3:44] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooooo cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's the big thing that's stopping us have a resident beta

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[3:44] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks, jonathan

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so we want to get that done soon so we can get feedback as soon as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat246|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're going to be updating to Mono 2.6 as part of this too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as that is going to have long term support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:45] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What's your guesstimate on the amount of time from beta deployment to main grid deployment once that is done?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, I expect a fairly long beta period, both to fix bugs and iterate on the API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we developed Mono we had a 6 month beta

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[3:45] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I ask cos I will be tasked with updating a bunch of stuff to C# when it goes on Aditi, and they will want to know when it will be usable on maingrid, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I would expect that to be the case here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat253|[3:46] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Okies.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we want to get the api right this time ;-0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[3:46] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, so let me find the other agenda items.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[3:46] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Memory limitis and mono rezzing problem?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|[http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 SVC-3895]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|memory limits is very nearly done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're fixing one last server issue

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat262|[3:47] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and sim crossings for the same if it's related

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat263|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the server side should be in 1.38#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[3:47] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mono DE-rezzing problem ? ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once the server side is released it will grant caps to the new viewer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will show the UI

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[3:47] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can still make sims cry out in pain by simply derezzing my terraformer :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat268|[3:47] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooooo, will that include memory > 64k at the same time? O_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat269|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nothing will be enforced, but it will show usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL scripts will be 16K, Mono scripts will be 64K

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat271|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're working on the dependencies for the next step

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[3:48] ]]
| colspan="2"|Sahkolihaa Contepomi is glad he'll no longer have to keep looking at the top scripts window in the EM panel for his own script time.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we need to add support for small scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[3:48] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahh ok. :P The only thing I want more than efficient scripts right now is to be able to request heap sizes > 64k, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono scripts asking for <64K

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat276|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and bytecdoe sharing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|before we enforce script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[3:49] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good to hear

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then allow Mono scripts to ask for > 64K

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's going to be a long process

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we also want to allow feedback on the proposed limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[3:49] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|conditional compile options in mono scripts ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[3:49] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but yes.. that allows slave scripts to run low level.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[3:50] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh: crediting for shared bytecode... that's nice.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, last topic [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 SVC-3895]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat286|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've made 2 further improvements

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I now look for assemblies in all Mono Application Domains before loading a script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat288|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which should completely avoid the loading scripts twice delays we were seeing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've also made some changes that make scripts lazily create themselves

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[3:51] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, derezzing scripted objects causes even worse sim performance drop ^^ and I can prove it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, the creation process for a script created a script object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat292|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then deserialized it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a mono object was created for the script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat294|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then immediately discarded when the script was deserialized

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now the creation call doesn't create a managed object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat296|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so it's not wasted

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we wait until we deserialize or run the script to create the mono object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat298|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or otherwise call in to managed code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is still some work to be done on that, but it's nearly there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat300|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and should be in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat301|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, Simon Linden has been working on multithreading rez and derez

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat302|[3:53] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will that cause any script pauses for sim crossings?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat303|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which would fix all of these problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat304|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but he has quite a lot of work to do there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat305|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my changes should make rezzing Mono scripts much faster

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat306|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to no about derezzing problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat307|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|know, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there a JIRA?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[3:54] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can show you after the OH if you want

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like a public JIRA with a minimal repro please :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat311|[3:55] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no jira for it yet I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat312|[3:55] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll see what I can do

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat313|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat314|[3:56] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|though you may just get a video repro :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat315|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we have 4 minutes left and have got through everything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat316|[3:56] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat318|[3:56] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe slow derezzing is causing application domain switch

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[3:56] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are you still on a 6 week release cycle?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat320|[3:56] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wanna know then llDoWhatIAmThinking() will be done. O_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[3:56] ]]
| colspan="2"|Gunter Vandyke missed the date we get the new functions ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[3:56] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llFixBrokenScript();

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat323|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gunter, I'm going to find those dates for you

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat324|[3:57] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llFixBrokenAnimationOverrider();

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat325|[3:57] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llRefillCoffeeCup is on my priority list ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat326|[3:57] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat327|[3:57] ]]
| colspan="2"|Gunter Vandyke smiles

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat328|[3:57] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat329|[3:57] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ceawlin... isn't that just llReadScriptersMind?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat330|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|speaking of refilling coffee cups...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat331|[3:57] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My clients want me to implement a library for llReadClientsMind(), but I can't get it to work. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat332|[3:58] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llStartParty();

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat333|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm going to be working on my SL Pro talk this week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat334|[3:58] ]]
| ANSI Soderstrom:
| style="white-space:normal;"|first u must collect their karma

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat335|[3:58] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ceawlin... there may be a missing component in some case =X

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat336|[3:58] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llFindAndEnslaveDJ();

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat337|[3:58] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is SL Pro

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat338|[3:58] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's cause you don't need a library there... but you need a giant black box to tap into

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat339|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and hopefully also getting some instructions done for the LSL OAuth library released

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat340|[3:58] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yea, I think most of the problem is between my chair and my keyboard. ;<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat341|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL Pro is an in world conference for SL content creators

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat342|[3:59] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat343|[3:59] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL Pro info https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/commerce/blog/2009/12/17/sl-pro

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat344|[3:59] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat345|[3:59] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was thinking the end users chair...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat346|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, the video of my FOSDEM talk should be online soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat347|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So keep an eye out for that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat348|[3:59] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:) well one advantage of versioning?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat349|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it includes a couple of glimpses of the current C# API...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat350|[3:59] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hm.. An actual script function I just thought of that would be useful for some things. llInterpolateColors(vec1,vec2,stepcount,step);

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9999;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat351|[3:59] ]]
| Nya Raymaker:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whenever we thoguth we made soemthign fool proof we can rewrite it to the new version cause we met a bigger fool ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat352|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, time's up!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat353|[4:00] ]]
| Sasun Steinbeck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when will 1.36 be pilot deployed again, and will it be deployed on the same pilot servers as last time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat354|[4:00] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for your time, Babbage! ^_^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat355|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat356|[4:00] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I mentioned derez and gave you objects in October [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895?focusedCommentId=139175&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_139175 SVC-3895]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat357|[4:00] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you, Babbage. Take care :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat358|[4:00] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat359|[4:00] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for the talk, Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat360|[4:00] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat361|[4:00] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat362|[4:01] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nya after breaking a sim in two line of code on accident... I could be that bigger fool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat363|[4:01] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat364|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good discussion today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat365|[4:01] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat366|[4:01] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ARg!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3366CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat367|[4:01] ]]
| Void Singer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbage
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 02 10

2010-02-13T13:35:56Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:14] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He is here!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:14] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:14] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's all kinds of nifty debug settings that i'm sure will induce lag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[3:14] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:14] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The meeting isn't dead, it's only sleeping.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:14] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[3:14] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hiya babbge

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[3:14] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fashionably late :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[3:14] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morning, Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[3:14] ]]
| Linnrenate Crosby:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what's the topic?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[3:14] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooo he sneaked up on us.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[3:14] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morning, Mr B.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry i'm late, wresting with new viewer 2 build

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[3:15] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Babbage :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[3:15] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:15] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Shhhh! NDA!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[3:15] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My pizza intake per minute is way too large .. I wish a linden would show up.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the sound is still wonky, hang on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[3:15] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice to know it's easy to use :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[3:15] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that viewer 2 had better not be using the AVL scheduler as well.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[3:15] ]]
| SandBox Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can we get this threat fixed plz: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3514 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6964 ..should be fixed server side.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[3:16] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that was fast

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[3:16] ]]
| Linnrenate Crosby:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aimee... can i bother you in IM with a simple question?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sound i mean, looking at issues now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[3:16] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Viewer2.0 doesn't exist. It's all been a big ruse to keep us from talking about server bugs :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[3:16] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[3:16] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, that's SleightOfHand Linden's gimmick. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[3:17] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3514 SVC-3514] should use resource pool throttles

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is the plan for future throttling

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and should be on the sim hardening team roadmap

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat34|[3:17] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ho yeah... 20 seconds, that's insane

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[3:17] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll stop bitching about the viewer if 2.0 actually caches what it's supposed to c ache

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[3:17] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Throtting griefers, now there's an idea.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will check it's on their radar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[3:18] ]]
| SandBox Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but no fun that people can use the spam to crash everyone in 2 to 5 seconds

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[3:18] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't care if i have to learn a new one, as long as it works right after 2 years of crap

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[3:18] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, updates from last week:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[3:18] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when is the 2.0 viewer going to beta?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[3:18] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow, it's snowing again. (UK)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[3:19] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Urgh, so they were right.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[3:19] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[3:19] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah its snowing for me too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[3:19] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Started to go cloudy here. D:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:19] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snowing here too (US)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks to Cale Flanagan fixing his SHA1 implementation, we now have a working open source LSL oauth library for Twitter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Twitter_OAuth_Library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[3:19] ]]
| colspan="2"|Natasha's Gear FL HUD: Natasha's Gear FL hud. Get yours free at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Jeju/202/232/91

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[3:19] ]]
| colspan="2"|Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[3:19] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually cratch that its not snowing now it was 10 minutes ago.. now its sunny

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[3:19] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snowing here in D.C.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[3:19] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|twitter?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[3:19] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*scratch

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm going to be writing up some documentation and doing a blog post about it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[3:20] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but you can use it now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|add the library to your objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[3:20] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|eh, i think i need to update my twitter box

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[3:20] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Was waiting on that script you promised. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then look at the example client for usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's super easy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[3:20] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please dont make me look at twitter.. i feel ill when i look at it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|go to twitter to register your application

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|set the consumer key and secret and retry count

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with link messages when you rez or rest

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|reset, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[3:21] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm standing in my social media communications platform now...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then send a link message whenever you want to update status

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the library handles oauth authorisation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then posts the update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[3:22] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't get social networking. Why not just turn on the white noise generator? It would be more informative.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it caches the last 25 authorization keys

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat76|[3:22] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Based on that analysis I sent you on that subject, any chance for llSHA1Base64String et al?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so people only have to authorize once

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[3:23] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya... morgaine.... maybe we can use twitter for real random number gernerator

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[3:23] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you should just go and add llTwitter() to LSL2 :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone using twitter and asking for passwords and usernames should switch to this library immediately

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[3:23] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dont like social networking either and yeah i look at twitter and have no clue whats going on.. white noise is a good way to put it :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we don't want to continue promoting the password anti-pattern

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[3:23] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|imaze, i'd hate to have twitter generating numbers for any game...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[3:23] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze: now that's the first good application I've heard of for twitter, random noise generator.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://adactio.com/journal/1357

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[3:23] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|besides, tila tequila make me want to vomit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone who would like to add twitter promotion to their SL creations, should spend 10 minutes wiring it up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[3:24] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when with llTextBox work?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[3:24] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Viewer 2.0, I hope. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|squirrel, we shouldn't add llTwitter()

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[3:24] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's been in the making for 2 years now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[3:24] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thank god

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're trying to build a general platform

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[3:24] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And now we have Google Buzz, announced today. Because there isn't enough random noise on social networking sites.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on the one hand it's great that this is possible in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat96|[3:25] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llTextBox almost made it into Snowglobe--anyone who wants to apply the patch to the current code is welcome to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[3:25] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well... *barely* possible.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[3:25] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|works fine in Emerald

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[3:25] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if twitter are really interested ion SL they can come make a plugin ... evenrtually

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on the other, it's a shame it's taken the whole LSL community a couple of months to build

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly Talarus

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[3:25] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I just compiled SnowGlobe this morning... Where is the patch?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[3:25] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Having to use a LSL SHA1 implementation versus the built-in one is .. rough

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the C# version on the other hand took about 10 minutes to get working

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because I could use System.Security.Cryptography

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[3:26] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And now we have Google Buzz, announced today. Because there isn't enough random noise on social networking sites.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[3:26] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-392 -- any volunteer?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[3:26] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually i think social networking serves a purpose.. it lets people say what noone really wants to hear in a place i dont have to go look at

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, when C# is available, all of this stuff will be _much_ easier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is this sim in trouble? It dropped my last line entirely, the first time.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[3:27] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The attached patch is for LL Client 1.22... Obsolete

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it's better bang for buck getting that work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[3:27] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, that is why someone has to adapt the patch

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|than to fiddle around adding or fixing the existing LSL methods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[3:27] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actually, I built the code a few days after you requested it; the problem was I didn't have a LSL SHA-1 implementation. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[3:28] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, there's a "No office hours 2010-01-27" notice here, you might want to remove.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:28] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just figured you would use Strife's :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, Talarus, which Cale had to build

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif tried to use Strifes, but it didn't work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[3:29] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ahh. Pity. :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which again adds to my point

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|crypto is hard without byte arrays and crypto libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we shouldn't have to be fiddling around with this stuff

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[3:29] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will c# be available only for client-side scripting, or can we use it with regular LSL scripts on the server-side.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat125|[3:30] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've managed to do it with games

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[3:30] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can manage it too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat127|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and soon won't have to

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat128|[3:30] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yus, but we take what we get, which is what you give us and when.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, exactly, so the good news is that you're going to be getting a huge pile of useful stuff, relatively soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is great news

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[3:31] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any fixes on the old piles of stuff that will break the new piles of stuff?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the experience with the oauth library has shown that we're on the right track

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[3:31] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I get a good LSL function next week (theoreticallly) vs the "better way" (C#) in 6 months, I'll take the former now, and the latter can wait a little longer. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[3:31] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm... Server 1.36 didn't include mono fix - is ti coming in 1.37?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[3:31] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, are you involved in Firefly scripting too?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[3:31] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, any idea when we can expect a fix to [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 SVC-3895]?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we will be fixing the LSL where it makes sense

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but not where it overlaps with C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is the best use of our time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, efficient scripts is needed by LSL and C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[3:32] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think we all need it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFast is more generally useful than working llSHA1String functinos anyway

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[3:32] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|efficient lists are needed badly. they consume too much memory and don't clean themselves up well

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it's the right call to do llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFast then do C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[3:33] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|btw, I seriously hope you'll use a shorter name than that!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[3:33] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The focus has never been on efficiency in LSL scripts. If it had been, you'd have implemented O(1) arrays years ago.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat147|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think we're doing a pretty good job of getting the priorities right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[3:33] ]]
| Aimee Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFasterThanYouCanTypeIt

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[3:33] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|given that we have 2 people

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[3:33] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh? any idea when we can expect a fix to [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 SVC-3895]?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[3:33] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No O(1) arrays :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:33] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I wouldn't have made that comparison, exactly (as it is an a priori argument), but having something remotely useful for hashing communications properly that can be processed would be nice.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[3:33] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can't wait for c#. we can use a switch statement!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[3:33] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|why not just call it llModifyLinked

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, here's the right place to discuss it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[3:34] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llMakeEverythingWorkRightImmediately()

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat159|[3:34] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sooner! :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[3:34] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llModifyPrim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are partial fixes for [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 SVC-3895] done and will ship in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[3:35] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good to hear.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm working on getting the other cases fixed right now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will go back to it as soon as I'm done with this office hour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[3:35] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|partial fixes?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, again, I think we're getting the priorities broadly right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and voting on that issue and bringing it up here has helped

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the problem is asking Mono to load the same assembly twice causes it to stall unloading the duplicate

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[3:36] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talarus, go to the ravkom scripting classes on sunday, game scripting hashes to communicate with contest boards covers that subject

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat170|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the partial fix checks the application domain for an assembly before loading it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if it's already loaded, we use the loaded copy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[3:37] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I know how to do scripting hashes, but there are plenty of cases which simply cannot be done with llSHA1String.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[3:37] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HMAC-SHA1 is a prime example, so we discovered. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which fixes 50% of the script rezzing stalls

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[3:37] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|babbage... you just described the showstopper that brings every event over 25 people to a crashing *thud*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we have 2 application domains

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[3:38] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about the other 50%?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm now working with the Mono team to find out how I can use an assembly loaded in to either domain

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[3:38] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there any progress with the mono cgc?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is trickier, as you end up using assemblies which have never been loaded in to an application domain

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which can potentially confuse Mono assembly ref counting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[3:39] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, are you involved in Firefly scripting too?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the current fix will ship in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully we'll get a full fix in 1.38 or a later release

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[3:40] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how long till the other 50% of the fix ships?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is we can get a full fix in, then the issue is fixed in Mono trunk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we'll pull that fix in when we upgrade Mono for Big Scripts and C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, I am peripherally involved in Firefly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the team came over to brighton to talk about it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[3:41] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|big scripts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[3:41] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you're confident this will be done in a timely manner?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[3:41] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Firefly scripting?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[3:41] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kk, advice only then. Q's pretty much on his own I guess

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[3:41] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze: client-side

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I tried to make sure that Firefly would work with scripts downloaded from the world

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[3:41] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be sweet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whoever is playing that sample, please stop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[3:42] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am going to keep in touch with Q and those folks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[3:43] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there any progress with the mono cgc?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to make sure that Firefly and Pixie Dust (the server side scripting improvements including efficient scripts, big scripts and C#) will work nicely together

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[3:43] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not sweet at all. It's non-portable. Firefly is going to be a problem for VWRAP, and potentially turn SL into a non-interopping walled garden forever.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[3:43] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I was thinking of client-side scripting of some kind. Not necessarily that one (I'm not that familiar with it).

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[3:43] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|does pressing play in inventory make a sound play in world or locally?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[3:44] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in world

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:44] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you have to open the sound window and play it locally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[3:44] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd love to see client-side synchronization scripting.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|me too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[3:44] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i kept clicking it thinking it would popup the option to play in world or local lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[3:44] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Server-side is just too unpredictable.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope we get there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whats the problem with Firefly and VWRAP?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[3:45] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd love to see live music events again that could have 75 people attend, like a year ago...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[3:45] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you'll see yours first, i magine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[3:45] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: there is no interop API defined, you're tying Firefly to SL semantics. That's going to make you irrelevant to what VWRAP does.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[3:47] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Firefly would be pretty similar with flash - depending highly on platform where it is running - but I think that Morgaine is bit exaggeration issue

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My understanding is that Firefly is a set of tools for GUI construction, I don't see how it affects virtual world interop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[3:47] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|A portable client-side scripting system that works for multiple worlds needs to be tied to VWRAP semantics if it's going to support VWRAP interop. Firefly is being developed independently and without reference to VWRAP, so it can't play that role.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[3:48] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so SL can be oon a flash page in a browser

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[3:48] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:48] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no gooden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:48] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|isn't that the goal?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:49] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I hope not. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|portable scripting is a huge problem in general

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:49] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seems that way...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:49] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would prefer the sending of SL on a video stream instead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[3:49] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: UI poke the world. If the world poking is done through VWRAP then it's interoperable, otherwise it's tied to a specific world and so goes against interop.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[3:49] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yuck

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[3:50] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL on a video stream is heavy bandwidth

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[3:50] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SL is heavy on bandwidth anyway isnt it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[3:50] ]]
| colspan="2"|Dedric Mauriac PEEK and POKE the world

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[3:50] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not like a high-definition video stream is. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|shipping running server scripts between different platforms is going to require a ton of work as we've discussed before

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[3:50] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well for small portable devices you wont have a great def anyway

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[3:50] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I doubt morgaine that firefly is going handle protocol level stuff - just UI and higher level client side business stuff

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[3:51] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not using SL on a small, portable device. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[3:51] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with the recent series of performance degradations over the last 6 months, a lot of residents just assume that the lab is getting us ready to accept SL as flash on a page

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think firefly is going to make that any worse, but I doubt they are working on making it better either

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[3:51] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|neither am i.. just me thinking of walking around playing SL on a netbook lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[3:51] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze: that would be horribly underpowered, and a waste of client-side scripting. The major use case for client-side scripting is to poke the world with automation.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gooden, if you don't have anything constructive to say, please leave

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[3:52] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have a good one

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[3:52] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"Poke" is a generally useful word in this context, as the actions are so varied.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[3:53] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Primarily, Client-Side Scripting is all about presentation and user interaction anyway.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[3:53] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sigh.. .let's move on... when you are able to post C# api specification to wiki, Babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[3:53] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd kill to have access to custom XUL markup from LSL/Mono scripts. :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:54] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Doesnt webkit to SVG?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if client side scripting can do UI and world prediction I think it will be useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[3:54] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gooden: not "flash on a page", but the major reason for Plugin-API is believed to be to allow "Flash on a prim", because that would allow a closed-source binary Adobe plugin to be used with the open-source viewer. And LL has several high-profile recruits from Adobe.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it also needs to be able to communicate with server side scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that is the current plan

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it sounds like you're imagining an everything is scripted viewer morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which would be good, but beyond the current scope I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, a broader project than Firefly would need to consider VWRAP I agree

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[3:56] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: precisely, that's the "world poking" that I referred to. And all world poking is meant to be done through VWRAP according to the official Linden position, yet here you are creating world-poking systems outside of the VWRAP context, and behind closed doors no less. Bad, very bad.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[3:57] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Touching the world outside of VWRAP breaks the interop.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, the world updates done from client side scripts would be subjective, only visible in the current viewer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[3:57] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|havent seen that for a while.. the sim nextdoor water has disappeared

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[3:57] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interesting article to get people up to speed on what VWRAP is and where it came from: http://www.jhurliman.org/2010/01/merging-vwrap-and-cable-beach/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is what you need to do twitch gaming and such

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[3:57] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(I was curious...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think there is a plan for doing definitive, shared world update from client side scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[3:58] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: and non-operating with any other world, since it wouldn't use the interop protocol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat265|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|definitive updates would still be done through the server

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[3:59] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can we do client-side scripting with c#?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Talarus, I will read up and see if there are going to be issues here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat268|[3:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Interop relies on one's client being usable whatever world you're in. If you add special bits to the client that only work with your world, then you're working against interop.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat269|[3:59] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i want to make a plug-in to post snapshots directly to my blog

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat270|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, quickly, before we run out of time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am talking with Gisele about publishing the C# API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully we will have a plan soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I showed a couple of examples in my FOSDEM talk

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will be available online soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[4:00] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, you jinxed me. It's snowing here now.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you should be able to watch that and give me some feedback next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[4:00] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm gonna plug our VWRAP article in IEEE Internet Computing magazine --- the PDF is in the page here ---> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ogpx/current/msg00806.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[4:00] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Coo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it also talks about a lot of the implementation issues we're currently working on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[4:01] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dedric, are you familiar with Skiuli? -- http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/sikuli/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so should give a good idea of where we are with C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[4:01] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nope. i'll look

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[4:01] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|VWRAP intro PDF -- http://internetmessagingtechnology.org/pubs/VWRAP-for-Virtual-Worlds-Interoperability-mic2010010073.pdf

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[4:02] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|must be first time when SL avatar writes article to IEEE :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[4:02] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's very cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some of those questions in the talk have now been answered

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[4:02] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That might not be exactly what you are looking for--the example I was given was a scanner object would signal via a http call that someone arrived and the remote system would start up a SL viewer to take a snapshot of the new arrival

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I'll give you an update next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[4:02] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is sikuli what is being used for viewer 2.0?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we've run out of time now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[4:03] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Look forward to it. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll also do a blog post about FOSDEM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[4:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Virtual personna writes article about virtual worlds in RL publication. We need more of it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat294|[4:03] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Assuming I am still awake next week. <.< *splat*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[4:03] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am not running out of time - we can continue another hour :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on jimpurbrick.com

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[4:03] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No Dedric, it is a way to script graphically

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there was lots of interesting stuff there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat299|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|including the stuff that realXtend were showing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat300|[4:04] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you've lost me. what use is it if it's not in the viewer.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat301|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right I should go

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat302|[4:04] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat303|[4:04] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat304|[4:04] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat305|[4:04] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat306|[4:04] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|B*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat307|[4:04] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for the hour, Babbage, tc :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat308|[4:04] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat309|[4:04] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we are being attacked by tribbles?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat310|[4:04] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat311|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and work on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat312|[4:04] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat313|[4:04] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty babbage.. one thing at a time :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3300CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat314|[4:04] ]]
| Dedric Mauriac:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you still owe us 10 minutes, you arrived 14 minutes late

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat315|[4:05] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat316|[4:05] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[4:05] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rain check :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat318|[4:05] ]]
| Jonathan Yap:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ha, I've never seen it work that way

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|finally, on the snow topic this was my commute this morning: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimpurbrick/4345980288/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat320|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you next week!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 02 03

2010-02-03T12:26:56Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[2:59] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC99CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[2:59] ]]
| CPU Core:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good morning!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat4|[3:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how is everyone!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:00] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[3:00] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Doing all right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[3:00] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Mr. B. and all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[3:00] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|5AM, having tea.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[3:00] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good day Babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[3:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks to everyone who has had a look at the LSL HMAC-SHA1 code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[3:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|especially to Cale and Latif who got solutions that got the right results for the examples

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[3:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unfortunately they don't seem to work properly for OAuth data

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat15|[3:02] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[3:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've added some notes here: http://lsl.pastebin.com/m95bc82

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the LSL implementation needs to match the .NET implementation here: http://buchananweb.co.uk/security01.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[3:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when using OAuth data which can be generated here: http://hueniverse.com/2008/10/beginners-guide-to-oauth-part-iv-signing-requests/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[3:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a finished and working OAuth library implemented using the C# prototype, which uses the same code as http://buchananweb.co.uk/security01.aspx

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[3:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've also ported the C# library to LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[3:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, as soon as we can get an HMAC-SHA1 that matches http://buchananweb.co.uk/security01.aspx we'll have a working LSL OAuth library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the C# implementation did a great job of demonstrating the value of C# scripting at the Linden offsite last week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat23|[3:05] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are Cale's and Latif's code available somewhere?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC6699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[3:05] ]]
| colspan="2"|Object: Hello, Avatar!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat25|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people were so excited they want an LSL implementation so they don't have to wait for C# ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif's code is here: http://lsl.pastebin.com/f6383724c

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat27|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as a number of people pointed out, the initial problem was that I was using llSHA1String which doesn't work as the data is a unicode string, not a binary array

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but there seems to be another problem somewhere

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat29|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif's solution uses Strife Onizuka's LSL SHA1 implementation from the wiki

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cale wrote an alternative SHA1 implementation, which is faster

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll ask him to put his code online

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be great if we can work together to get this working in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the C# implementation is very effective

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat34|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've been having lots of people asking what I'm up to when updates appear on my twitter stream

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it will be a very effective way of promoting SL experiences

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's also been really useful implementing a reasonably complex library in both C# and LSL in Second Life

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat37|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's exposed a number of bugs and limitations with the C# prototype

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but also exposed the limitations of LSL when working with the web

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat39|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we're discovering, cryptography without byte arrays is hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[3:11] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and even when you have byte arrays, manually implementing cryptography is hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|being able to search for C# HMAC and get a 10 line example I can use in 5 minutes is much nicer :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[3:12] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bah. Try cryptanalysis!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# is going to make SL so much more productive

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[3:12] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it was a useful excercise to see where we need to improve the current API too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat47|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, currently the ll* methods take ArrayLists as parameters where lists are used in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which means you need to do lots of new ArrayList(new object[]{HTTP_METHOD,"GET"}) style code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is pretty horrible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we can improve it to make the ll* functions take object arrays

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[3:15] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, what are the 5 percent of SL areas that you are targeting with your new script memory limits? I build holodecks.... with these new script limits in place, will I (And my costomers!) still be able to drop a holodeck in a sandbox and expect it to work, what with memory being limited?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, I would still like to have some kind of object[] ParseList("["foo", "bar", "baz", 1, 2, 3, <1,2,3>]") style helper

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[3:15] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes! I'd like to hear more details about memory limits too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we should also add .Parse("<1,2,3>") methods to vectors and quaternions in C# too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL is much terser when using lots of literals atm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which it turns out you do a lot of in practice)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, on the other hand, having arrays and switch statements makes C# a lot nicer to use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, at the moment it's swings and roundabouts, but there are things we can do to make C# nicer in SL yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[3:17] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and complex types!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rigth

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#003366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[3:17] ]]
| Asuka Chun:
| style="white-space:normal;"|user defined types too?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|being able to build an LRU access token cache out of a System.Collections.Hashtable in the C# version was nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[3:17] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|having to use 2-3 lists to describe a list of associated pieces of data, is crazy...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|much nicer than using a strided list in the LSL version...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[3:18] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Strided lists are ebil, especially with the pass-by-value semantic. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it was a super useful exercise that got lots of Lindens excited about C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[3:19] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any sort of timeline for C# on beta grid?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|allowed me to learn a lot about the C# interface

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and may yet produce an LSL OAuth library that we can all use to promote SL objects and experiences on the social web...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the time line for C# is Q3 beta on aditi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:19] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|long term, I'd still like to see a more object-orientated API. So I can write " this.link[1].setTexture(....)" for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72|[3:20] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Speaking of timelines, I have the usual annoying recurring question about the ETA of efficient scripting API on aditi, that I am supposed to keep asking you about every week, if you don't mind touching on that briefly at some point. I apologize for bugging you about it so much, lol. ;P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Xugu, long term I'd like to make it possible for you to build a more object oriented API with proper support for script libraries :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[3:20] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Q3. Oh dear. I'm going to have to just sleep for 6 months then...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no problem, the code freeze for 1.38 is still mid Feb

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat76|[3:21] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thankies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|efficient scripts is in QA and on track for that release

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[3:21] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[3:21] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[3:21] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there a changelist for efficient scripts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[3:21] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|❤

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so that will give you something to play with Xugu

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[3:21] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison grins

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you can always try making LSL HMAC-SHA1 work in the meantime ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[3:21] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will there be a new RC?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat86|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38 is a server release

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[3:22] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Client RC, I mean

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's adding the final server support for the next viewer release

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[3:22] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|To be able to use the new functions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will be out soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're making some final changes for Script Limits support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[3:22] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|aww... still no announcement about new viewers features :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL scripts will be using 16KB of reserved memory, you will be pleased to know

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're still trying to work out how to display Mono bytecode sharing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat95|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my initial thoughts were to have the first script include the bytecode cost

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and subsequent copies have that discounted

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[3:23] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have y'all gotten any ideas if any kind of rough guesstimation on what the limits will likely be?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, if you have a Mono script with 4KB bytecode

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the first script would reserve 64KB from the pool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|subsequent copies would reserve 60KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, kelly pointed out that if you showed that on the script limits UI it may be confusing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because if you return the first script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the second script usage would go up to 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[3:25] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have asked couple times how to do Mono's bytecode sharing - I have just simple answered "Compile your script once - then copy compiled script to other places" - woudl be great to see script's assembly - or - somekind visual clue that scripts are sharing same assembly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it would feel like whack-a-mole

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do you think that would be a problem, or not?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[3:25] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heya morning ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[3:25] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it would seem a bit weird, but people just need to learn that's how it works...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would it be better to have both scripts reserve 62KB?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, that's what I think too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[3:26] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is the 5% of land that will be targeted? And, yes, it would

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, I'm a software engineer and not a UI expert ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you can have a think about how to present bytecode sharing in a non-confusing way that would be great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[3:26] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Christine, I'm not sure 5% is a specific figure (is it?), and the target is land using the most memory AFAIK.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment we're probably going to leave it out of 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and hopefully put it in when we get to big scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:27] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, if you show only bytecode sharing on the same parcel, that should at least remove weirdness where someone returns something on the other side of the region and suddenly your usage goes up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[3:27] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"big scripts"?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[3:27] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can it somehow show the amount shared, like in brackets afterwards? like 60 (4) in your example?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, possibly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gypsy, big scripts is the project where we let mono scripts set the amount of memory they want to reserve

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[3:28] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Want.... :d Lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[3:28] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that sounds nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, if you have a door, you might make it reserve 4KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat125|[3:28] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya... might be best to have two numbers for mono scripts - amount of used by script - and - amount of shared memory used by scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which would make it more efficient than an LSL door script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat127|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you want to parse XML you might reserve 1MB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unlike LSL, there is no reason that Mono scripts should be a set size

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(and having to chop scripts up when you need more than 16KB is horrible atm...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[3:29] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[3:29] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Eek.... will LSL code still work when this happens?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[3:29] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Very very very

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[3:30] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so like we'll have llSetMemoryReserve() function for the state entry or something? or more like a setting in the script editor?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|christine, LSL scripts running on the plain old VM will always use 16KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[3:30] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|O_O So I can't have more than one per meter of land?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL scripts running on Mono will be able to call llSetReservedMemory or something similar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[3:30] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am really hoping that the script will be able to adjust it's own reserve memory programatically. :o

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[3:30] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Bloo katana kitty on a cog looks like a dangerous combination...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once Mono scripts are using different amounts of memory, factoring in bytecode sharing will be less weird I think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[3:31] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Im very much liking what Im hearing about the memory limits here ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(as script memory usage may be going up and down any way)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[3:31] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pondering memory usage, any concrete plans for letting us move messages into client-side assets (so that error messages don't eat script memory, and different languages are easy to do)?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[3:32] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the scripts will be able to exceed the reserved memory though, right? like if you reserver 4k, and use 12k, it wont stack heap, but just not be as effieint?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[3:32] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, i have a question about hud using in im , if you can ressure me on this ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, hopefully we'll get to client side scripts for that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or you will be able to pull error pages off the web with shared media...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[3:32] ]]
| colspan="2"|Ceawlin Steamweaver wants to make floaters from scripts. :d

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[3:33] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, client-side scripts... before, or after the heat death of the universe? :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[3:33] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Me too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin that is the end goal of the Firefly project that Q is working on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat151|[3:33] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or we'll be able to send messages to the user's client with server side scripts >:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[3:33] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And have UI callbacks into LSL. :d

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:33] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oooo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[3:33] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So client-side scripts are now on the timeline?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[3:33] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|floaters? Firefly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[3:33] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll have to invade Q's OO and get the skinny on that. O_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[3:33] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or if pigs fly, generate text on a prim face ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm hoping before, as having to do computations without increasing entropy is going to make client side scripts hard to implement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat159|[3:33] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|22 avatars. Why is this sim so laggy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat160|[3:34] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison blames the cogs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[3:34] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lag is a part of life, my friend

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[3:34] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[3:34] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah Saij, i notice this with my 4go of memory :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[3:35] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Suddenly Silence

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[3:35] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison is on a laptop. Katana kitty goes around and around, but mostly his client doesn't do motion anyway, so no change....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[3:35] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Waiting for Babbage to confirm about client-side scripting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[3:35] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If we souped up these cogs, we could use Morg for a blender. :o

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat168|[3:35] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what would "client-side" scripting mean in this context?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not the press department, so you won't get any announcements from me

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[3:35] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So.... for the simple-minded woman...... WILL I be able to plop an LSL-style holodeck in a sandbox and expect it to work?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat171|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but Q and the boston firefly team have a plan that is working towards client side scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[3:36] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Saijanai; having objects in SL be able to move a script asset to the remote client, where it runs in a sandbox, AFAIK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat173|[3:36] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The bloo-bladed kitty goes round and round....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat174|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the goal would be to have scripts marked as client side scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[3:36] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the holodeck will prolly work, but if it tries to rez a scene that has 800000 scripts it might fail

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which are downloaded and run in each client that sees the object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat177|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the client side script would be able to build GUIs and interfaces

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[3:37] ]]
| colspan="2"|Saijanai Kuhn shrugs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and hopefully also do client side prediction of object movement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[3:37] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seems there are easier ways to do that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and would be able to communicate with the server side scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat182|[3:37] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sai, oh?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat183|[3:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was about to ask that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to build shared experiences

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[3:37] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Liisa

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[3:37] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: The point is, lots of community groups are looking at scripting in the client. Your line "[3:32] Babbage Linden: xugu, hopefully we'll get to client side scripts for that" suggests that it's not just a resident wishlist thing, but that you see it as a target for work in LL. If it's an actual future project, then it undermines what the community is doing, unless it's an open project in Snowglobe.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[3:37] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, shared experiences. Sounds too much like Windlight :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[3:38] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ultimately, it would be really nice to be able to have a script rez an object and get some kind of reference to it to be able to manipulate it in various ways without having a script in it. I predict that will be about the only thing that efficient scripts API doesn't fix, as far as the tons of scripts everywhere problem...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine it is something that we're looking at and working towards at linden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|q is keeping an eye on the open source efforts too and we're discussing how they interact

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[3:38] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: according to M, this year begins "a new openness" .... is this scripting going to be done closed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example the open source lltextbox extensions are not as complete and useful as the firefly plans

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, they would undoubtedly be useful for script UI in the meantime

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[3:39] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sre!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[3:39] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[3:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They would be super in the UI - Emerald has had it implemented just fine for a while now.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and if they are implemented in the same way as llDialog, the maintenance overhead won't be huge

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[3:40] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Q Linden is Wednesdays from 8am.... I suggest we go poke them about Firefly/client-side scripting?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[3:40] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The only reason I can't use it in my own scripts for user UIs, is that it isn't in the official viewer yet.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these are all the same issues that open source projects have

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[3:40] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is firefly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when different forks implement things in different ways

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm in favour of giving as much information as we can about pending up coming projects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat204|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so avoid collisions with open source efforts as much as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, it's not always my call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i've said lots about the scripting plans

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will hopefully provide useful input for opensim and other open source development efforts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat208|[3:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's not just because of collisions. It's because you would get a better design working WITH the community on it, instead of behind closed doors.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to avoid incompatibilities and overlap and wasted effort and to come up with the best solutions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[3:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's an open source client after all. Working in secrecy on features for it is pretty .... <deleted>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[3:42] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison still thinks we need an office hour with the people who get to decide when we hear stuff...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've talked a lot about how to implement bytecode sharing accounting for example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat213|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, i agree

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[3:43] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry, but I'm still not fully understanding... Under the new script limits, you can only have 1 LSL script per meter?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no christine, you get N KB of memory per meter sq

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[3:43] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I really appreciate your openess Babbage, thank you! Unfortunately most of Lindens don't share same viewpoint anymore - it is impossible to get any information about viewer 2.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[3:43] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I've heard allot of people lately expresses concerns about the memorny limits breaking content, do you have any comments on that?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[3:43] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when speaking about text-on-a-prim-face.. i must point out that 99% of the use will be similar to llSetText, so we need simple function for it. _NOT_ some media on a prim thing that slowly request the data from outside the script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[3:43] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Christine, it sounds like you've got a very odd information source... where is this coming from?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(we're still working on the final numbers)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|imaze, that's not my call

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:44] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm getting it all from what's being said today and what's on the wiki

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(and I have to try to avoid getting in to trouble being too open here too)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:44] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lisa why not just xml/html/svg on a prim using a note card (or 2) in the prim's inventory?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example, i'm glad I've spoken to you all openly about script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat226|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it caused a lot of panic and running around before christmas

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[3:45] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Christine, okay. Just there's a lot of rumours going around, and much of it isn't that concrete yet...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that caused some heat for me in the lab around communication

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[3:45] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Notecard? Bleh... We want dynamic text on a prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, it's hard, but in general I try to be as open as I can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[3:45] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, being able to talk about it more might help some of hte fears ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[3:45] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|notecards are slow, and cant write to them, as i said, most of the use will be output generated by the script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat233|[3:45] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I personally don't think memory limits will ahve a very adverse effect on anything. Imo it was crazy to not have a memory quota in from the beginning (no offense), and most things other than ridiculous script-in-every-prim maddness are probably using trivial amounts of memory and will work just fine...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I think as a company we're working on getting better with communication

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, I agree

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|per script limits were around before I turned up, unfortunately

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[3:46] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bit of a topic hop, but... how's HTTP textures (from LL, not from external sources) going?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and, to be fair, some pretty amazing things have been built in SL despite the original script limit weirdness

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[3:47] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm hoping and praying taht the "efficient scripts" project comes through for the "many scripts" problem.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[3:47] ]]
| Saijanai Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, unless you establish a communications channel specifically for what shows on the prim, you're always going to run into the same bottlenecks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[3:47] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|personally, I see what's been talked about here today being very good for new scripts that handle it properly, but can cause problems on some of the older scripts on land that just has too many scripts running

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat242|[3:47] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oy, pardon the typos.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat243|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, with script limits, efficient scripts and big scripts the memory model for scripts will be much better i think

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|much less wasted resources

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat245|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and much more productive for scripting large projects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat246|[3:48] ]]
| colspan="2"|Xugu Madison is hoping for a "stable scripts" (error handling) project later on

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat247|[3:48] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, Andrew metioned that you wre hoping to allow script versioning soon.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:48] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there any timeframe on that?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[3:48] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gypsy: I think that sometimes existing content has to be broken for the same of moving forward. Otherwise you have craziness in the same vein as the i386 still supporting the 8080 instruction set and other such cruft. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xugu, I hope that we can do that with exceptions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[3:48] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*sake

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[3:48] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, you are right of course Ceawlin

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[3:48] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as it will allow us to add error returns to existing ll* functions without breaking their signatures

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# scripts will be able to catch them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL scripts will run as normal

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'd just need a shim around the library calls for LSL scripts that consumed the exception and continued

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(or stored the error in a variable called by llGetLastError() or something)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[3:50] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, can I clear something up with you about script limits in Im?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[3:50] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just some minute detail that everbody but me understnds =P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure, but I'd prefer to just talk in chat

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[3:51] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, is there a timeframe on when you would be able to enable versioning for scripts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|other people might want to know

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, the versioning andrew is refering to is library versioning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[3:51] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah, go ahead Christine.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we already have for Mono scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|currently scripts compile against version 1.0 of LslLibrary.dll

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we can add a new version of that library to the GAC

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat269|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and have new scripts compile against the new version

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat270|[3:52] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|GAC?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat271|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or choose which version they compile against

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#3399CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[3:52] ]]
| colspan="2"|AOS-HUD 3.5.184 [WEAR ME!]: - The scanner on steroids - [secondlife://Titian/135/223/351/]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the Global Assembly Cache

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat274|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is what .NET uses to avoid dll hell

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat275|[3:53] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, so, LSL scripts will take UP 16 kb of memory, which, I thought you used as an example for the amount of memory we have per meter... so one LSL script per meter?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat276|[3:53] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even if scripts are only given 256 megs per simulator, that's still what, 512k per sqm? That's 8 mono scripts per sqm. And I expect that would increase over time with moore's law...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[3:54] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's still a lot of scripts, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[3:54] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, yeah, how are the new class 6 sims coming? *duck*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|christine, we're going to set limits using KB per sq. m. and KB per avatar for attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[3:54] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is the scripts memory usage going to be in the region/estate for sim owners only? or will that info be more exposed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[3:54] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And at this point, would things that require a lot of scripts, like holodecks, slave collars, the old stuff that might not be made with mono.... that's going to become either useless or obsolete or both?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can then choose whether to use 16KB LSL scripts or 64KB Mono scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat283|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and, after big scripts, N KB Mono scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're still discussing what the actual limits will be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[3:55] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess it may be unknown, but will C# be subject to limits in the same way as well?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[3:55] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ohhhh, so LSL scripts and mono scripts have a st number of memory they use?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they are going to support 95+% of current usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[3:56] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And LSL uses less memory than mono?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|christine, yes at the moment LSL scripts always reserve 16KB an Mono scripts always reserve 64KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[3:56] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No matter how much of that amount they actually use.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[3:56] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Initially LSL uses less memory - until Mono is able to start allocating necessary memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[3:57] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Christine, I suspect that if your scripts are not currently lagging your sim to a standstill, they will still work ok afterward

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we gave Mono scripts 64KB when we launched Mono as there were some corner cases when a 16KB LSL script needed 64KB of memory in Mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat294|[3:57] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some things may become useless or obsolete or need fixed to be more efficient. But sticking with the old way just because it is already there would be akin to trying to ride a horse to work on the DC beltway. Gotta abandon the old ways to progress to new and better things. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|because we wanted people to always be able to convert to Mono we increased the Mono size

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[3:57] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's like a glass with water. You ahve a 16oz glass, and you only fill it with 4oz of water but it still takes up the same amount of space in a fridge as a full glass.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in most cases Mono scripts actually use less than 16KB of simulator memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[3:57] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they reserve 64KB to be safe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat300|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we have big scripts released you'll be able to say

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat301|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i know my script will never use more than 8KB, so that's what I'm going to reserve

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat302|[3:59] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So basically, I do not have t hire a team of scripters to redesign all my holodecks so they work with the limits? I can keep things as they are?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat303|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or, I know google.com might give me 1MB of XML, so that's what I'm going to reserve

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat304|[3:59] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I have one more question before we leave, continuing on my previous line, if that's ok?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat305|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no Christine, everything will continue to work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat306|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|although you might find you can tweak your holodecks to work in more places

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat307|[3:59] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|95% of everything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[3:59] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ya... somethings are definately going go stop working - that is whole point about limits - those somethings are lagging simulators so they are causing problems for pretty much everything. Point is just - find good limit (that is not yeet found) where those worst offenders stop working, but still most of other good working content is working.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[3:59] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ALRIGHT!! -happy holodeck seller is happy-

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat311|[4:00] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what will happen when the scripts memory limit is exeeded? will they all just stop, or will it force the time diliation down to catch up or what?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat312|[4:00] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat313|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gypsy, when LSL scripts hit 16KB, they will stack-heap collision, there is nothing else they can do

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat314|[4:00] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, I was talking about total sim memory limits of all scripts in the region

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat315|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when Mono scripts hit there limit (whatever they have reserved) we have 2 options: allow them to grow, or make them stack-heap collide

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat316|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm still not sure which is better

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as a land owner I want to be able to set up my parcel with scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat318|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and know that they will all keep running

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, if I leave 64KB free for emergencies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat320|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|should a script be able to use that extra 64KB instead of crashing?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not sure

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[4:02] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the problem with stack heaps has always been, it stops the script cold, so if that happens in a no-mod object, than that object is pretty much permantly dead

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat324|[4:02] ]]
| colspan="2"|Liisa Runo cam's around: lol, some people are bold, person with pay info is selling copybotted item, just 15ometers from a Linden office ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat325|[4:02] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think if you make the limits too soft, there will be weird interactions that will cause things to go wonky. >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat326|[4:02] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|150*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat327|[4:02] ]]
| colspan="2"|Christine Milneaux runs up to babbage and hugs him

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat328|[4:02] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I had mentioned a possible improvement on one of the "efficient scripts" functions being currently worked on, llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast, and Andrew mentioned that though it was too late to change, script versioning might enable development on it. Would that be something you would be interested in looking into, as part of the efficient scripts project?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat329|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ceawlin, I tend to agree

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat330|[4:03] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to be able to get an exception or something when a script stack-heaps and be able to deallocate something if possible and continue though. <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat331|[4:03] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I didn't actually intend to hit enter that soon, but oh well :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat332|[4:03] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, if you made limits to soft, everyone would ignore them, just look at what happened with homesteads ツ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat333|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people are used to 6 prim objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat334|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, 6 prim objects can rez extra prims...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat335|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the default will be that there will be no automatic growth

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat336|[4:03] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gypsy , i can take your smile? ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat337|[4:03] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|better just throw stack heap expection - like it is happening now - it is more deterministic

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat338|[4:04] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how do you think I got it Edidi ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat339|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I would like to be able to let scripts query their usage, try to reserve more and then deal with the failure if they can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat340|[4:04] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Something I do with objects I sell, is in the prim count, include the count of any prims that an object might rez. I think people will end up doing the same with memory, for scripts in the objects that are rezzed which might take up that additional memory sace.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat341|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather than the stack-heap collision probelm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat342|[4:04] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe an error() state would be nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[4:04] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean, error() event

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat344|[4:05] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|includes*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat345|[4:05] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes. It is very upsetting that there's no way to make something recover from a stack heap at all anymore, since llResetScript no longer works on stack-heaped stuff. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat346|[4:05] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol ok Gypsy, i just ask befor, for respect ㋡ hehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat347|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|these are all good things to talk about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat348|[4:05] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*OtherScript, that is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat349|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for next time :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat350|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat351|[4:05] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|TC Babbage, and thanks for the info on the client-side scripting work. Who would be the right person to follow it up with?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat352|[4:05] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe wipe the memory and trigger an error() event

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat353|[4:05] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat354|[4:05] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat355|[4:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and good luck with the HMAC-SHA1 debugging ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat356|[4:06] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat357|[4:06] ]]
| Gypsy Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage! twas an awesome office hours! very informitive

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat358|[4:06] ]]
| Eddi Decosta:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah babage, honestly im againts the limitation of script .. cause some people paid for hud .. and im not rassured ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0066CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat359|[4:06] ]]
| Christine Milneaux:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Babbage, how do I save this conversation?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat360|[4:06] ]]
| Sebastean Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you have chat logging enabled Christine?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat361|[4:06] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think someone usually posts a log on the wiki, Christine.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat362|[4:07] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat363|[4:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat364|[4:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have a good week
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 20

2010-01-20T12:13:54Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:06] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heeeeeeere's Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:06] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Silly kitty. Yowling all night. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat3|[3:06] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat4|[3:06] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat5|[3:06] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morning Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat6|[3:06] ]]
| Lares Carter:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heya Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat7|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morning everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[3:06] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[3:06] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how's things?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[3:07] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Waiting for the snow to come down again. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[3:07] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good morning Babbage. Assuming it is morning where you are.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat13|[3:07] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, we haven't crashed the sim yet. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[3:07] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Spifftacular!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat15|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sahk: there's more snow coming?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, it's morning and raining in brighton

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the snow has gone, but we're waiting for more

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[3:07] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine - Yeah, they've forecast more snow.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ew

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(luckily i managed to get a bit of skating in while the roads were clear)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC66CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[3:08] ]]
| Uchi Desmoulins:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heya Squirrel! :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[3:08] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Squirrel.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm going to be in SF next week, so there won't be an office hours then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[3:08] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|AW.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat25|[3:08] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aw*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[3:09] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I have a general question to slot in if your topics run out.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat27|[3:09] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I have a question about the planned sequence of introductin of script limits. My understanding is that the limit enforcement will occur before we have ability to specify how much memory our scripts need.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[3:09] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat29|[3:10] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hellos

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[3:10] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If that is true, don't you thing is horribly wrong sequence to do things in?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[3:10] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow, there are like, a zillion people here. O_O Hai zillion-people!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, no, enforcement will not happen for at least 6 months afer the limits are visible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[3:10] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, more people than usual. xP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC66CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[3:10] ]]
| Uchi Desmoulins:
| style="white-space:normal;"|People are excited about scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[3:11] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, that is not at all what I am asking

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we'll use those 6 months to consult with residents

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in cases where people thinks the limits are wrong

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[3:11] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I can't usually make this OH :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[3:11] ]]
| Adasyd Nino:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you script responsibly, shouldn't there not be a problem?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[3:11] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i heard they dont get limited before we ahve tools to monitor the resources, and better ways to do stuff. stuff like llSetLinkText() and what not

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[3:11] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think Ive asked this before but I dont remember if I got an answer. We'll be able to see how much script TIME (in addition to memory) we're using, right?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[3:11] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am asking about the ability to set the memory usage. so my touch script that opens the door will get "charded" 64k limit when it fact is uses 1k at most

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[3:11] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|charged

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're planning to get the big scripts project done before enforcement too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat45|[3:12] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's about VM state. When an attachment or vehicle crosses a sim boundary, what VM state requires continuity across the handover, other than user script state? (I'm thinking about interop, where the 3rd party region is not running LL code, and the scripting engine is not yours, but a script passes from that region to yours, or viceversa.)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is the project which allows mono scripts to specify their reserved memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|both to more than 64K or less

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:12] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Leave question for later when your stuff runs out)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[3:12] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So the ability to set memoru will come before the limits are enforced?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is the plan yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[3:13] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|expect many scripts to request the maximum memory even if they never ever ever ever need that much. just because they can.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[3:13] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Now, what happens if our code size is larger than 64k, if the reserved limit is set via a script call? >_> Or how does that work?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[3:13] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i got a different info from Kelly, just trying to find one way or the other

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, jack, gisele and I met last week and the current plan is to both show LSL scripts as reserving 16KB

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and to account for Mono bytecode sharing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which are both things that have been requested here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the combination should make script limits as trasparent as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|transparent, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[3:15] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's very good news, if we get to set memomory before enforcement, i have a ton of small scripts that do simple things and do not require a lot of memory at all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[3:16] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|charging each of them 64k would probably put me over the top

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[3:16] ]]
| Yuu Nakamichi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about squirrel's comment?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat63|[3:16] ]]
| colspan="2"|Babbage Linden looks back

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[3:16] ]]
| Yuu Nakamichi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|expect a lot of scripts to take the max memory without need?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yuu, no, that would be like having scripts rezzing all the prims they can, just before they can

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[3:17] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we get the new set of functions and useless limits removed we dont need those lil scripts anymore, in most cases

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's not very useful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[3:18] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Speaking of the new functions, do you have a confirmed list of the ones you are putting in and in what versions yet?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[3:18] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think the efficient scripting additions will make the memory limits a lot less constraining, myself. http://www.ceawlin.com/projects/DNDHUD/ for example is currently 66 scripts at minimum for interactivity. Could be done with one, two at most, just with the effecient scriptsing functions. <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[3:18] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And I need more coffee before I can type. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:18] ]]
| colspan="2"|Sahkolihaa Contepomi gives Liandra a strong coffee.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the changes for efficient scripts are:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[3:20] ]]
| colspan="2"|Babbage Linden waits for wiki to load...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[3:20] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[3:20] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[3:20] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[3:20] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh oh documentation ^_^ I been waiting eagerly for that. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[3:20] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Running like a snail again?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[3:20] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are we about to flashmob the wiki?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[3:21] ]]
| colspan="2"|Morgaine Dinova kicks the wiki for Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[3:21] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Mel.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(integer link, list params)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[3:21] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can make sims scream in pain just by derezzing scripted prims :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993333;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[3:21] ]]
| Melchizedek Blauvelt:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Sah

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|works as llSetLinkPrimitiveParams (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetLinkPrimitiveParams) except does not force the script to sleep after calling, allowing it to be used in a tight loop.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[3:21] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|list llGetLinkPrimitiveParams(integer linknumber, list params)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|works as llGetPrimitiveParams (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetPrimitiveParams), except allows a script to specify a link number in the link set. This function does not force the script to sleep after being called, allowing it to be used in a tight loop.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PRIM_TEXT

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Get/set a primitive's floating text via llGet/SetLinkPrimitiveParams. Followed by string msg, vector color, float alpha.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[3:22] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|finally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[3:22] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[3:22] ]]
| WADE1 Jya:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that sounds really cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those will hopefully ship in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[3:22] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you weren't on the other side of the world, I'd buy you a beer or pizza, Babbage. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and be available for beta in mid feb

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[3:23] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I foresee a lot of invisible hovertext used as storage...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[3:23] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything on texture animation or particle system?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have some other changes in the backlog

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they are unlikely to get done before 1.38 ships

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[3:24] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any chance of getting link particle system set?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|including llLinkParticleSystem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[3:24] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yey

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|* PRIM_NAME, PRIM_DESC

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:24] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|THAT'S good news! :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llAvatarOnLinkSitTarget / llLinkSitTarget

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[3:24] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesomesauce.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[3:24] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whoa. prim_desc was really missing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[3:24] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wow

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:24] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|very nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[3:24] ]]
| WADE1 Jya:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SWEET!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[3:24] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yay!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[3:24] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh my :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[3:25] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now we hear it, we want it quick L ㋡ L

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(we haven't done those yet, and their's no guarantee we'll get to them)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(we're agile)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(but they are on the backlog)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat118|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the current additions should make the biggest difference

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[3:25] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fast prim params and link text are like 99% of it, imo anyways. :o Groovy groovy.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[3:25] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just hope they don't go the way of region windlight :) "soon to be implemented" since 2007

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and allow the number of attached scripts to go down from 100 on average...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[3:26] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|L ㋡ L

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[3:26] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any other *Fast() functions coming / needed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they are implemented and in QA

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there may be other Fast functions in future

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I'm going to try to make sure we don't add any more functions with sleep times

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[3:26] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank the gods. :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:26] ]]
| WADE1 Jya:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay for fast functions! loves it....

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(as it doesn't work)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[3:27] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there any consideration of moving llEmail to something like the http throttling mechanism instead of that dreadful sleep?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[3:27] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have you ever tried to work with 4k unlinked prims and make them work together? ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[3:27] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|having multiple timers with messages would be also great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in future i'd like use to use throttles tied to resource pols where we need rate limiting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[3:27] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, llEmail()... sometimes there's just no substitute.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llEmail is a good example

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[3:28] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|signed timers or llDialogs with builtin timeouts ...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[3:28] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetTimerEvent([integer ID],float time) ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[3:28] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mean, everyone works around it.. with more scripts!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it should be tied to N emails/s/m^2

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[3:28] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I been calling out to an email gateway on appengine to get around the 30s delay when I have to, lol. <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or N emails/s/avatar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|working around it with multiple scripts just wastes simulator memory and cpu and scripter time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[3:29] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|per minute, you often need to rapid fire 4-5 and then nothing for a long time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[3:29] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4536

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[3:29] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: it should not be tied to m^2, or your whole allocation policy becomes toast when you break the tie to acreage in the face of competition.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, the script throttles work well there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llHTTPRequest uses them already

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it allows you to have pulses or sustained send rates

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[3:29] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, similar solution for llEmail() would be awesome

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[3:30] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, the llHTTPRequest model is fine for all these, I think, if it can be generalized

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, it's tied to resource pools

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which can be tied to anything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|m^2 or GBP for example ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[3:30] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be nice. :) Lots of in-world systems still use llEmail, and 10-20 slave scripts per object (networked vendor, for example) to implement.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[3:31] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|m² ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat156|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, there's lots of low hanging fruit here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[3:31] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|m³ ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat158|[3:31] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: Good. Virtual acreage is a bad proxy for physical resources, and you'll be removing it, trust me. ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat159|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we still have some resource pool bugs to fix

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once that done I'll be writing an blog post about the new throttling proposal internally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat161|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will try to get it in to the standards for script API design

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(at the moment some features are adding more sleep delays as that's just how we've always done it...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[3:32] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, I saw your test c# tweets. Awesme work. Do you have any idea when can we get to play with it on the beta grid?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks latif

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i've been working on it for a demo in SF next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[3:33] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(it's difficult to sell the benefits of scripting, but the benefits of oauth integration are much clearer...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat168|[3:34] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can we have an URL? For those who aren't on Twitter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[3:34] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think selling scripting improovements as the way of integration with the social networking sites is a good way to go about it :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the public beta of C# is still a way off, as a lot of the work is in building the sandbox

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which is actually good, as we can show the benefits without the sandboxing...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[3:35] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow, but but.... Scripts are what bring the world to life. Without them, everything just sits there (like me without coffee). O_O

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[3:35] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is it realistic to expect a beta during the second part of this year?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly liandra

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i was thinking of doing a demo where i turned the scripts off in the linden regions for a day

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[3:36] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lol, that would rawk.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[3:36] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehehe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat178|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so people can see how much of SL relies on them ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[3:36] ]]
| Simon Kline:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lololol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[3:36] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh, yeah, but people are so easily charmed by pretty meshy shadowy prims.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[3:36] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|They'd be all @_@.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the script limits UI will help

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[3:36] ]]
| Simon Kline:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*imagines walkin into a door that usually opens*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'll be able to say "open up the about scripts tab, and see how many scripts are running here now"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat185|[3:37] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The script limits UI that tells us how much memory AND script time we're using, right?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're talking about naming the scripting roadmap project pixie dust

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[3:37] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[3:37] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, is there any movement towards some kind of transactional confirmation on things like llGiveMoney() and llGiveInventory()?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[3:37] ]]
| Liisa Runo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sometimes with griefer attack on LL sandbox, some linden turn off scripts, and forgot to set them back, the sandbox has bout 2 people ther untill the swcripts get turned back on, and the average agent count go back to 30

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as scripts are the magic, invisible secret sauce that makes sl more than 3d chat

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat191|[3:38] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[3:38] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|about visibility of script memory, usage, etc... any hope of that not being tied to Viewer 2.0? I have, uh, calendar concerns.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|my current oauth experiments are using this account https://twitter.com/sltester

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[3:38] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mind you, there is STILL no way to reject a payment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[3:38] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We need info about the closed scripts that WE'RE running in attachments, separate from land stats. Many objects we purchase have no-mod scripts in them, and we have no way of telling good from bad.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so follow that if you'd like to see where i've got to with the demo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|notice on that page, the tweets are sent from Second Life Script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is an application registered with twitter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|every scripted product in SL will be able to register an application

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and residents will be able to control access on a per application basis

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if Foogo starts spamming too much you can disable it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but still allow Bargo to send updates

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and of course, because it's using OAuth it avoids the password antipattern

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat204|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is used by things like tweethud

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[3:41] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All very cool. And yet another step in the direction of making Second Life just First Life. So both cool and not cool.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you only ever give your twitter username and password to twitter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you'd like to be able to add this functionality to your creations before C# is out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just get this HMAC function to work:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://lsl.pastebin.com/m54880359

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then i'll port all the rest of the code back to LSL and open source everything

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[3:43] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doing it without arrays... talk about maschism :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, the code in C# is:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[3:43] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What was wrong with it, Babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat215|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't know, it looks like it should work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but doesn't match python HMAC

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[3:43] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, still broken. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[3:44] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I looked at it a little, but that kinda stuff is over my head. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i spent 3 vacation days on it and couldn't get it to work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|whereas it took 10 minutes in C#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:44] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sounds like a contest challenge :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:44] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Meh... I've implemented XTEA using similar functions.. maybe after I sleep. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:44] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you got c# code handy?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:44] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Completely uncommented, makes it difficult to maintain, and difficult to ask people to help fix it if they have to figure it out from scratch.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, getting the C# code now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, it's nearly all strife onizuka's combined library

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[3:45] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Give him a smack :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which does all the base64/string/list conversion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[3:45] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a SHA1 hmac

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[3:45] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The error is clear as day to me! All that needs to be added is llMakeItWork(); ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat233|[3:46] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL's compiler warnings leave something to be desired. I spent like 4 hours trying to find a bug in the wrong place, and it ended up being a semicolon at the end of an if statement that somehow got typoed in there. X_x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[3:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat235|[3:46] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, it has to work with the python version? or?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[3:46] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|python just to verify the correctness, it should spit out the same thign

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, it needs to match python/<your other working HMAC-SHA1 implementation here>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[3:46] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Normally I'd recommend using the compiler flag --compile_the_comments_not_the_code ... but there are no comments :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are lots of llOwnerSay calls in the bits I added

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[3:47] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Latif: good idea

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which follow the transforms through

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i assumed strife's combined library worked

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat243|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyone have experience using it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat244|[3:47] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a little

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat245|[3:48] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat246|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|getting that LSL HMAC-SHA1 function working would be more useful to me than pizza ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99FF33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat247|[3:48] ]]
| colspan="2"|Grid Status Update: [RESOLVED] Brief Service Portal Outage at 9 p.m. Pacific Tonight

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99FF33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:48] ]]
| colspan="2"|Grid Status Update: [Resolved} Our support system vendor will be restarting the system at 9 p.m. Pacific this evening. Support tickets and chat will be unavailable for about five minutes.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, in C# in SL the code is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|using System.Security.Cryptography;

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|System.Text.ASCIIEncoding encoding = new System.Text.ASCIIEncoding();

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[3:49] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Twitter is over capacity. - LOL ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byte[] keyByte = encoding.GetBytes(keyString);

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byte[] signatureBaseBytes = encoding.GetBytes(signatureBase);

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HMACSHA1 hmacsha1 = new HMACSHA1(keyByte);

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[3:49] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Grumble. Kitty keeps tearing the phone line out of the wall. X_x Did I miss anything?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|byte[] hashmessage = hmacsha1.ComputeHash(signatureBaseBytes);

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|return System.Convert.ToBase64String(hashmessage);

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and that's it :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat260|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all borrowed from an example on the web

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat261|[3:50] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Because you're cheating with a library :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat262|[3:50] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, well.. :P Library function vs code-from-scratch :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[3:50] ]]
| colspan="2"|Babbage Linden likes libraries

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[3:50] ]]
| Yuu Nakamichi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[3:50] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's what libraries are for.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat267|[3:50] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Give us libraries in LSL ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i also have byte arrays

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[3:50] ]]
| colspan="2"|Latif Khalifa hopes we get a lot of these libs when we get c# :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[3:50] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then we can cheat too ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|latif, I'm hoping to give you as much of the .NET framework as possible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[3:51] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|L-SL - Libraries in SL ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|collections and cryptography are going to be super handy

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat274|[3:51] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat275|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as I discovered trying to roll my own HMAC in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat276|[3:51] ]]
| Yuu Nakamichi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|squirrel, wasn't that libsl? :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat277|[3:51] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|libsl's just a cheap copy ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat278|[3:51] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, any info on MONO script rez time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat279|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|toy, we have no plans for libraries in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[3:52] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|passing collections by ref is better than eating large quantities of chocolte :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC00;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat281|[3:52] ]]
| Ceawlin Steamweaver:
| style="white-space:normal;"|( If you can stand Eclipse, LSL+ allows the use of modules. Almost as good. >_> )

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat282|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we would like to get to libraries in C# in SL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat283|[3:52] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Emerald will offer LSL includes soon, anyway)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat284|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|toy, it looks like the partial fix I have for the rez bug is going to be in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm going to be talking to the Mono devs at FOSDEM in Feb to see if I can fix the remaining issues

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[3:53] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yey :) death to sim freezes!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[3:53] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Great news, thank you Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mono fixes the issue in trunk, so at the latest it will be fixed when big scripts ships

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat289|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(as we need to upgrade Mono for that and will make sure we pull the assembly load fixes in with the new version)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat290|[3:54] ]]
| Squirrel Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any plans to fix slow prim derezzing?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat291|[3:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you have a minute (shouldn't take longer, just need general answer), I'd appreciate a brief reply about the VM state transfer issue on passing between sims.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat292|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(there is an online HMAC implementation here that you can use to check whether the LSL one is doing the right thing: http://buchananweb.co.uk/security01.aspx)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(that's also where I got the C# code)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat294|[3:55] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Squirrel, watch the simulator object count statistic. It appears to me the "slownes" is in client updates, unless you are talking about the long simulator frame when deleting.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Simon Linden is going to be working on sim performance soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat296|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you should talk to him about that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|his plans including multithreading object rez and derez

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[3:56] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Scripting limits: Will we see the "Script Time" in the UI as well?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[3:56] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Including for non-mod scripts we have.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat300|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|toy, no not right now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat301|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as script time is not properly rationed by resource pool yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat302|[3:57] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat303|[3:57] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Repeat of earlier Q: Is there any movement towards some kind of transactional confirmation on things like llGiveMoney() and llGiveInventory()?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat304|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so it would be confusing to include it now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat305|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(but I will hopefully get to that later...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat306|[3:57] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I currently drag all my stuff to an empty region that's for sale to check the numbers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat307|[3:57] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ardy: ew

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat308|[3:57] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's a bit of a pain.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat309|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|talurus, Which Linden is responsible for the new L$ API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat310|[3:58] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooo.. OK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat311|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will talk to him about whether we can surface errors to LSL while I'm in SF

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat312|[3:58] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which Linden? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat313|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and whether we have full transaction support yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat314|[3:58] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, Which Linden. :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat315|[3:58] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(sorry, I just HAD to...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat316|[3:58] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|His OO are what, Thursday?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not sure

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat318|[3:59] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think they are, let me check.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[3:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Which defined the CHTTP protocol, we spent many OHs discussing that --- that gives you transactional behaviour

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat320|[3:59] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thursday, 11:00 AM: Which Linden: Certified HTTP, Eventlet, Mulib, Python, HTTP, REST

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[3:59] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thursday 11AM

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(but if he does office hours I'm sure he'd love you to go and talk to him about it ahead of my SF trip...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat323|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat324|[3:59] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Beat me to it, lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat325|[3:59] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thursday, 1100: Which Linden: Certified HTTP, Eventlet, Mulib, Python, HTTP, REST

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993333;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat326|[3:59] ]]
| Melchizedek Blauvelt:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thurs at 11 Liandra

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat327|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, time's up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat328|[3:59] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat329|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|let's do your question in 2 weeks morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat330|[3:59] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat331|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat332|[4:00] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|KK Babbage, have a good trip

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat333|[4:00] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat334|[4:00] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Efficient Scripting = grooviness!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat335|[4:00] ]]
| WADE1 Jya:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the infos :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat336|[4:00] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat337|[4:00] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat338|[4:00] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure. :) Thanks for having us.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat339|[4:00] ]]
| Toy Wylie:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage! Great info!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat340|[4:00] ]]
| Lares Carter:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat341|[4:00] ]]
| Briana Dawson:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nerd update :p

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat342|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and please get the LSL HMAC-SHA1 working for me as a late Christmas present

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[4:00] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|take care Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat344|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd love to see all the great stuff happening in SL filtering out across the social web...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat345|[4:00] ]]
| Latif Khalifa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right away :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat346|[4:00] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat347|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you in 2 weeks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat348|[4:01] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh, we should get HMAC working in exchange for Babbage getting LSL arrays working :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat349|[4:01] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat350|[4:01] ]]
| WADE1 Jya:
| style="white-space:normal;"|many thanks & byebye babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat351|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, you're getting efficient scripts, that's the deal ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat352|[4:02] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not efficient enough, I want scripts to inherit attributes through hierarchical objects :P
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 13

2010-01-13T12:10:34Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 06

2010-01-06T12:36:15Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:04] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Here he comes...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:04] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We had snow most of yesterday and last night.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:04] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good morning all.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[3:05] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sun has only just come out - but everything is white outside.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:05] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all but meltedhere

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:05] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Darr

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:05] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the multi game we always file AR's in 2's, they get fast response

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[3:05] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Howdy, Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[3:05] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just a little bit of slush remaining

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[3:05] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Darrius

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[3:05] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[3:05] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hiya Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[3:05] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[3:05] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[3:05] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|happy new year!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[3:06] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You too. :o

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[3:06] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|happy new year! :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[3:06] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiya Babbage, Happy New Year :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i hope you all had a lovely holiday

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i did

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lots of relaxing and a bit of scripting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[3:06] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Snowing just north of London, Babbage. How is it in Brighton?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[3:07] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lots of drinking, food and football :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[3:07] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe the best Christmas ever, Hi Babbage, thanks for having us.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[3:07] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I did too much relaxing, so nao I am doing lots of scripting. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's snowing here

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Woot!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[3:07] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Snow just passed where I am in Tamworth.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm working from home today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not many people in the office

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat33|[3:07] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe .. LOVE that 40 foot commute.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[3:07] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it's a record, snow both before and after new year.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, as a new years challenge, see if you can work out what's wrong with this script i was tinkering with over the holiday

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://lsl.pastebin.com/m5becd6a3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat37|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's an implementation of RFC2104 HMAC

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will be useful for working with web sites

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[3:08] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Free Premium for life if we do?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[3:08] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it looks like it should be working

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the intermediate results look right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's not producing the same final hex hash as python

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat44|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so something is up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat45|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and now i'm back at work i don't have much more time to tinker with it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if any of you could work out what's wrong i'd be very grateful

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat47|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's been an interesting exercise

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of the complication is due to now having proper byte support in LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we'll have in C'

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C#, so much of the complication will be gone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and because C# is much more widely used, there are many existing HMAC libraries that could just be used

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[3:11] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about adding some byte support to LSL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|including the implementation in the .NET framework

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kaluura, as I've said lots of times here, I really don't want to extend LSL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[3:11] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nothing new to be added to LSL, is my guess./

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[3:11] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think y'all ought to freeze LSL once C# goes in, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment it's broken, but simple

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|having it broken and complicated would be worse

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[3:12] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Your implementation of C# is going to be that complete? That you can just import 3rd party libraries and use them unmodified?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[3:12] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I see... Better start to learn C#... waiting for Python to be allowed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're still planning to support LSL after adding C# support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat62|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we're trying to get out of the language design game

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[3:12] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just out of curiosity, why did arrays never get added to LSL? It's such an obvious one, and so trivial, and so wanted, and so almost completed. Why did it never happen?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[3:13] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gewd idear, imo. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a good question darrius

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once I've got the LSL version working I might try using the C# implementations on our prototype

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as examples

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[3:13] ]]
| colspan="2"|Sahkolihaa Contepomi would like to learn a programming language, having only done very little VB at college.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they should work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[3:14] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage .. I don't want to cause an uproar .. but LSL strikes me as a microprogramming language .. whereas C# is a large system tool. The two applications just seem to be polar opposites.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the C# implementation in SL is going to be fairly complete

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|darrius, yes, LSL is a microprogramming language

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat73|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is fine when you're making doors open or cars move

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but not when you want to start interoperating with web sites

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[3:15] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*nods*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or implementing complex visualisations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat77|[3:15] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SO my titler would be better as C# since it reads XML from last.fm (I guess anyway).

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|C# scales down to LSL size reasonably well

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat79|[3:15] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But the number of scripted objects that interact with websites is a tiny fraction of the number of doors and cars in SL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[3:15] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, will we get SL related functions to C, or will the future llSetColor take 70 lines of script?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat81|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and scales up much better

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all current library calls will be available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[3:16] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so many scripts will be very similar

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but more complex scripts that store and manipulate data will be easier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat86|[3:17] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you have examples of C# rewrites of .. say door scripts or lamp scripts .. that show how you hope it will turn out?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[3:17] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is SL's C# implementation going to be basically just plain C# interfaced to the existing ll*() calls in LSL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, and i'd like to start making them available to show what our plans are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[3:17] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haz question, and maybe this is totally obvious, but what about events? I mean, as far as I know (and I don't know very far), C# doesn't a run_time_permissions() event...how will I ask people for hugs?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[3:17] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly would love that too Babbage .. please do.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i need to talk to T about that now I'm back at work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ovaltine, we define event handlers as virtual functions in a script interface

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they can be overridden to handle events

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[3:18] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about lists in fuction calls? Are they changed into arraws?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the default implementations look for registered delegates

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[3:18] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|function*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you can also use the C

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[3:19] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Groovy.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|# event/delegate idiom for handling events

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that lets you do "partial state changes" by changing the set of event handlers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[3:19] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I assume we'll no longer have to use LSL's lists.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is great for vendors

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[3:19] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will we be able to send linkmessages between #C and LSL scripts.. if needed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of having to change state to toggle "Pay" you can just set the pay delegate to null

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:20] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sure beats a whole string of if/elseif statements .. that's for sure.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and avoid losing events you'd lose on state change

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[3:20] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I always wondered about that. So events CAN get lost in state changes?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vextra, yes, link messages will work normally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[3:20] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sorry for going kinda off-topic, but one question on several people's minds whom I've been yacking with is... How's the estimate as to when the fast primparams will hit aditi? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|darrius, yes, the logic is very complicated

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat111|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have some compatibility fixes lined up for that at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to make scripts drop the same events that they did pre mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat113|[3:21] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[3:21] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Don't ya just LOVE edge testing?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's pretty much all testing :-D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, kelly and karel have been working on efficient scripts while i've been on holiday

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:22] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Slave driver!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the LSL function implementations are mostly complete and unit tested

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(they had some holiday too)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[3:22] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly grins...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the work left is checking that interest management can cope with potentially faster updates to objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[3:23] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: While you were on holiday, you may have noticed that your design for static limits instead of dynamic ones was torn into shreds on SLdev. :))

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[3:23] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are there plans in place to back-propogate C# enhancements into LSL .. and keep it growing too? Or will it be cut cold and frozen?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's not a big problem, as you can currently use 100s of scripts updating prims to generate lots of events

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but with no sleeping, it's much easier to generate lots of events

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we're checking that that won't be a problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[3:24] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that reminds me, has anyone noticed that you dont hit grey goo fence anymore? the rez seem to just silently fail these days

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:24] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So is there a possibility that a couple of fast primparams sims could be brought up on aditi for us to bash on while y'all are finishing with the testing and debuggings and things? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i read some of the SLDev swirl, i'll check some more of it our

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[3:25] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: how do you feel to be designing in yet another non-scalability into SL? https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2009-December/015956.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the link morgaine, that will save me sorting through

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[3:26] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's very bad for LL's future, but your choice.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll let you know my thoughts once i've read it morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC99;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[3:26] ]]
| Ciaran Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there a timeline for the C# implementation?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[3:26] ]]
| colspan="2"|Morgaine Dinova nods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[3:26] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was puzzled by that post, actually. It wasn't at all clear to me that today's limits have to be tomorrow's limits.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and i assure you i have no bad intentions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|qie, they won't be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[3:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That's assumed, Babbage, haha :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|limits will go up as hardware becomes available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we still need limits that are appropriate to the hardware

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[3:27] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|coolness.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[3:27] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Where can we find out about LL's plans for hardware upgrades?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat144|[3:27] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Limits will only go up when all machinery has been upgraded, otherwise it won't be a static limit.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but to make the common areas more predictable

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not for the majority, who work hard to make sure their sims run well

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, yes, but we have plans for upgrading all machinery

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this has been discussed, don't worry

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[3:28] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will we have more memory, better programing structures for SL, etc with C#? i.e. what are the other advantages aside from Web connectivity?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[3:28] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: but that's not scalable. What about when you have a million machines?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[3:28] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there some sort of timeline when .. say RAM will be upped or CPU speed minimums raised?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's not a problem having different limits for scripts on land in different machines

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:30] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The upgrades to 999,999 will all be wasted, until the day you upgrade the millionth box and can raise the limits. Static limits are so utterly bad in that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the problem comes when you want to be able to TP between sims with different resources and still have your attachments work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat155|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as i said, i'll read the post

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[3:31] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is the main motivator now for imposing limits .. rather than investing in cutting edge hardware across the entire population of sims?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|vextra, the big advatages are things like arrays, objects, user defined types, exceptions, enumerations, value types, pass by reference and more basic types

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC99;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[3:31] ]]
| Ciaran Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh I so want to see arrays

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[3:32] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly seconds that!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[3:32] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh they would be great.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[3:32] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and a case statement

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[3:32] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*nods*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[3:32] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Darrius: as a system grows, a smaller and smaller proportion of it will ever be "cutting edge", for any roughly fixed upgrade rate.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat164|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for lots of algorithmic tasks like encryption or path finding being able to operate on byte arrays is a big benefit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[3:33] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will you make your own C# functions specific to SL, for dealing with a 3D environment?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[3:33] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Agreed Morgaine. But it seems the population of machines is static and has been for awhile, yet the demands are still growing at the same rate or faster than technology.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also made some progress on the mono sim freezes on rez over christmas

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[3:33] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay to that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat169|[3:33] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Woohoo!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat170|[3:33] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nice.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[3:34] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|.. and after LL fix the tier system, the number of people who will buy land/more land will raise a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we got some callgrind data to the mono developers and zoltan has a theory that the problem is loading the same assembly from bytes multiple times

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat173|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which causes mono to set up the second assembly and then unload it once it's discovered to be a duplicate

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat174|[3:34] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oops!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which takes a long time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[3:35] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(ooo... that may make Mono scripts less clunky to pass over sim borders, too)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, mono also keeps track of loaded assemblies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat178|[3:35] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"hurry up and get that done .. so I can throw it away." LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so i'm adding some more calls to the run time to ask if the assembly has been loaded befre i try to load it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[3:35] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The tier system will have to disappear anyway, otherwise SL will becoime uncompatitive with other grids that decouple sim resource costs from land acreage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[3:36] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Acreage is only a virtual concept after all.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat182|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the trick is that you need to know information from the assembly before you can ask mono if it's loaded

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat183|[3:36] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So you almost have to pre-load it yourself?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so i'm trying to extract that information without having to load the entire assembly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[3:36] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gaww .. that thucks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, we have a theory and i'm currently testing it, which is good news

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[3:37] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can't you preload it .. then hand that info TO Mono .. so it won't have to repeat your effort?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i hope to have some results for you next week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well mono is open source, so i may be able to build the check in to mono at the appropriate point

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[3:38] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would seem they need to decouple the two processes .. and allow you to run them independently.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'll see

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[3:38] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think i speak for a lot of people, adding 10 seconds to a TP is worth not having the sim freezes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[3:38] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be cool Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[3:38] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(sorry I'm late, RL is always fun)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[3:39] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Xugu buys the donuts this time)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[3:39] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess I'm a bit unclear then Babbage. You speak of the Mono team .. but if it's open source, where is that team?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[3:39] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gooden: bad idea. The solution is to extend the load time outside the TP thread, not inline with it. Adding time to the TP would be a disaster for user experience.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[3:39] ]]
| colspan="2"|Gooden Uggla looks down at his mai tai - "no donuts for me"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm hoping to go to FOSDEM next month, so I will meet up with a lot of mono contributors there

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[3:40] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i was thinking if he needs a small time to check, i seriously doubt people would mind

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[3:40] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gotcha .. more a community than a "team" ... in the traditional sense.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat203|[3:40] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Darrius, I think Mono team means the "core" developers, although I've also seen Babbage on the mailing lists...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat204|[3:40] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: your videos of your talks are much appreciated :-) Hugely informative!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[3:41] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i have 3 high traffic sims, i'd love to not have freezes at events

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:42] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oops

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[3:42] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We broke him.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat208|[3:42] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|His attachments exceeded Sim limits. LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[3:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Notice that putting the rezzing into a parallel thread would have the bonus effect of not only stopping the freezes, but SPEEDING UP TP, which is wonderful :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[3:42] ]]
| colspan="2"|Gooden Uggla loves irony when he's drinking

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat211|[3:42] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Irony Bru?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[3:43] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[3:43] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wanna know when I can tell the People that Pay For My Groceries when I can start working on their improvements on Aditi, with the fast primparams. :x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat214|[3:43] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That was possibly the first time I've seen a Linden crash at an office hour.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat215|[3:43] ]]
| Questar Utu:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heh.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[3:43] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i've seen it a few times, i never get tired of it :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[3:43] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[3:43] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Zero was always crashing at his OHs, some times repeatedly on a given day.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[3:44] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That'll teach him to check Twitter during an office hour.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[3:44] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can always tell when one works from home

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:44] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The only person I'd expect to crash often is Merov from toying with Snowglobe. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:44] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Remember they have to use Linden viewers, so don't have the benefit of third-party stability improvements.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:44] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL @ Morgaine .. Touche!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:44] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lol morg.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:44] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:45] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He musta crashed hard...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[3:45] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmmm, that sounded cattier than I intended. But it's probably true, lol.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[3:45] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Now would be a good time for those donuts Xugu .. or more Mai Tai's.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[3:45] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|10 minutes of penalty for having tried twice to log in too quickly...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[3:45] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Either crashed or the snow has caused something. :/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[3:45] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So have any of you heard any dates about fast primparams on aditi? >_>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[3:46] ]]
| colspan="2"|Morgaine Dinova sticks out a hand and puts on an "I need a donut" expression.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[3:46] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anyone want to give me a quick recap?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[3:46] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|THis year...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[3:46] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i still use a forced 1.23.4 RC mac viewer, i never crash :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[3:46] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|]last of the decent viewers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[3:46] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cats can't have donuts! :O You'll mage a booboo on the carpet. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[3:46] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*make

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[3:46] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I rarely crash even on the Linden viewers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[3:46] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[3:46] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have 1.24.4... Not a single crash

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[3:47] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Where did Babbage go? I didn't see a TARDIS come and go.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[3:47] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But since Open Metaverse Viewer now has a working Ubuntu repository including dependency check, I use that now.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[3:47] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Liandra, ask him when he come back, i want to know too. And i believe they should arrive soon, after all it is mainly just copy paste + delete of useless limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[3:47] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mucta been a machine lockup

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[3:47] ]]
| Qie Niangao:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(oops. RL strikes again. have fun all.)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[3:47] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess the deadites pulled him into the cellar. :<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:47] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tc Qie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[3:47] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|He's back

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat250|[3:47] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Teehee

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[3:47] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|adios qie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[3:48] ]]
| colspan="2"|Liandra Ceawlin SHOUT: Wb Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat253|[3:48] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wb babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[3:48] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Welcome back!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat256|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|crashed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[3:48] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we saw :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[3:48] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we guessed :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[3:48] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wb

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat260|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that hasn't happened for a while

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[3:48] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imprudence is now by far the most stable viewer on 32-bit Linux. Doesn't crash at all for me, not even on OSgrid. Very nice experience.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat262|[3:48] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tell those kids to stop playing games on your work computer .. at home.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat263|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but then i haven't done an office hours from home for a long time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[3:48] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgainie is the mac versiion stable?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[3:49] ]]
| colspan="2"|Sahkolihaa Contepomi uses 32-bit Linux so may take a look into that viewer.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[3:49] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, I am sorry for being a nag, but I have some pitchforks pointed at me, lol. Can you clue me in on something I can tell them with regard to fast primparams on aditi ETA?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat267|[3:49] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i been meaning to try it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm glad you're looking forward to it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[3:49] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gooden: I think the Mac version lags the others. Jacek isn't really a Mac developer, she just bought a Mac to be able to build Imprudence.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment I would expect it to make aditi after 1.36 is out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[3:50] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|damn... thanks :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[3:50] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[3:50] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That'd be midmonth?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[3:50] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Feb-ish?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[3:50] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how are memory usage measurement tools coming?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mostly because we won't get much QA time before then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[3:50] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm forever looking for *someone* to pick yp a decent mac viewer that doesn'ty lag out everyone else

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[3:50] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nods, thanks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the UI for script usage is nearly done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and should be in the next viewer release

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat281|[3:50] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hoooo! Does it mean we'll soon have a new RC to play with new UI?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[3:51] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I got my answer...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm not sure, i'm not involved in the viewer release process much

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat284|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.36 is planned for early feb at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so efficient scripts should be on aditi soon after that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[3:51] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Groovy. Thankya.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[3:51] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I really hope we won't have to wait for that not-so-secret Viewer 2.0

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can you hurl me that url again please morgaine, i lost it when i crashed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[3:52] ]]
| Xugu Madison:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, can I wave https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4839 (more than 12 buttons in llDialog() ) at you please :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[3:52] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the viewer people practice voodoo, not QA... who knows?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[3:52] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably not before mid-year, as there were so many problems reported in Alexa's leaked email.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[3:53] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kaluura a workable 2.0 viwer may be the "viewer 2011 project"...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[3:53] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bleh...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat294|[3:53] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wanna see what the Naali people come up with. <3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[3:54] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Any other exciting projects on the books Babbage?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[3:54] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well getting rid of the coupling of rendering and networking code was a much needed refactoring. What worries me is that after all this horrid hiatus because of Viewer2.0 secrecy, that essential step is not actually taken.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat297|[3:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But if it is, then it was worth the wait.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat298|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i've been involved a bit in the server side of mesh, which is pretty exciting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lots of good stuff coming this year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat300|[3:55] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat301|[3:55] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mesh sure has a lotta folks polarized.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat302|[3:55] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat303|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm looking forward to seeing what you all build with it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat304|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, we only have a couple of minutes left

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat305|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any last thoughts or questions?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat306|[3:56] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just one .. what did you get that was FUN for Christmas?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat307|[3:56] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[3:56] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stuff like fast llSetPP is exiting, i wonder if there is some way to know when LL has fixed known exploits for making no-mod scripts open source, cause im not in the mood for sending any product updates or new products before i know that my months and months of work is not open sourced in a day

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC99;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[3:56] ]]
| Ciaran Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When will people be able to start looking at C#?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[3:57] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will mesh make sculpties obsolete?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat311|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh, i got a set of vdrums for the kids, which i admit i've been having fun playing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat312|[3:57] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: hahaha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat313|[3:57] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL Dads! (a title I proudly abuse .. heheh)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat314|[3:57] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those things are awesome, huh?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat315|[3:58] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well I have a Korg padKONTROL --- it's huge fun bashing away sounds on the pads :-)))

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat316|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LSL scientist, i worked on a fix for a permissions exploit in september

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that caused the last viewer update

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat318|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't know of any other permissions exploits that currently exist

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat319|[3:59] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|alright, good to know, but cause im paranaid, ill confirm that from a haxor

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat320|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i wanted a khaos pad for a long time, then turned my iphone in to one with mrmr

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's a lot of fun

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat322|[3:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Haha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat323|[4:00] ]]
| LSL Scientist:
| style="white-space:normal;"|2 weeks ago the haxor said there is 3 different methods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat324|[4:00] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you work with a "Black Ops" team Babbage .. folks that live in the hacker world but feed info to your development group?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat325|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, i'd love to see them filed as SEC issues

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat326|[4:00] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes darrius... his name is "rodney"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat327|[4:00] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat328|[4:01] ]]
| colspan="2"|Gooden Uggla ducks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat329|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't but there are others at linden who are pretty well connected in that community

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat330|[4:01] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat331|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i will talk to them about known permissions exploits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat332|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|those are definitely our top priority

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat333|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, time's up, i should go work on the mono sim freeze theory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat334|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for coming everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat335|[4:02] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for you time, Babbage! ^_^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat336|[4:02] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes please

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat337|[4:02] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat338|[4:02] ]]
| Sahkolihaa Contepomi:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See you later, babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat339|[4:02] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Best of luck on that Babbage. And Happy New Year again.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat340|[4:02] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat341|[4:02] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage, have fun being snowed in :-))))

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat342|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, do you have the sldev link please?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[4:02] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat344|[4:02] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|please help fix that, we would like to have events like we used to :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat345|[4:03] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2009-December/015956.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat346|[4:03] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: this one? https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2009-December/015956.html

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat347|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat348|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will read

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat349|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat350|[4:03] ]]
| Vextra Messing:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for having us, Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat351|[4:03] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye :)
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 16

2009-12-16T12:07:14Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:09] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage is here!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:09] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Greetings Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:10] ]]
| colspan="2"|Liandra Ceawlin Shout: It's the man of the hour, clad in his asbestos suit. XD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[3:10] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good morning, babbage. *yawn*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:10] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good morning babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:10] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage! :D He's out of my chat range. :(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[3:10] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[3:10] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[3:10] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[3:10] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Babbie!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[3:10] ]]
| Ashiri Sands:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat13|[3:10] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You need a theme song that plays when you enter the sim, Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sorry i'm a bit late

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat15|[3:10] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|windows crashed on me just as i was about to log in

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat17|[3:11] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[3:11] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gosh .. never had that happ ... *click*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat19|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat20|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, this week:

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[3:11] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you go mac, you'll never go back...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[3:11] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*drumroll*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it looks like we've tracked down the last region presence service bug

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat24|[3:11] ]]
| colspan="2"|Stickman Ingmann installs Windows on his Mac, defeating the purpose.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[3:11] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\o/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat26|[3:11] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(boom chicka wah wah)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which was forcing us to send map item requests via the space server

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with luck we'll get that fix in to 1.36

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then we'll be able to turn the space server off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[3:12] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That mans? ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat31|[3:12] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[3:12] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|means I meant :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the last central, unscalable single point of failure for SL will be done

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gone, even

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat35|[3:12] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|find the rush fix on SVC-5150 yet?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[3:12] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|uhm

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat37|[3:12] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Groups? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[3:12] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Glad to hear it, Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat39|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also updated out version of mono 2.7.x to the tip of svn

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat40|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there was a problem using the version we had with valgrind

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat41|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, now we've updated we should be able to get good data on the Mono script freezes to the Mono devs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[3:14] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat43|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm hoping to do a run today and get the callgrind data to zoltan before I go on vacation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[3:14] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Awesome. That's a big issue for my avatars, and my sim. Within a week, it freezes for half a dozen seconds whenever someone puts on an avatar.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat45|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also specced out the efficient scripts API

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have the first sprint planned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[3:14] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ohhhh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it will start today as soon as we've had the API reviewed

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat49|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so hopefully that will get in to 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[3:15] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am not familiar with this efficient scripts API. We talking C#? Or an LSL modification? Or something else?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat51|[3:15] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can you leak it to us nao? XD Or is it already up somewhere? <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's the llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFast

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and llGetLinkedPrimitiveParams functions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat54|[3:15] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:F

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[3:15] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will all of the prim params be fast?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[3:15] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|1.38? :( I can wait, then. I was hoping for 1.36.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Fast means no delay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[3:16] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I believe it'll only have the ones with no script delay in it, right? So no rotation, movement, etc. Just alpha, glow, scale, etc.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat59|[3:16] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If I can replace my existing adjustment technology with that, I will, happily...as long as I can adjust *all* primitive parameters with it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you can use both functions in a tight loop

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[3:16] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there going to removal of delays in other LSL functions - like instant messaging?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|instead of having to use 1 script per prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat63|[3:16] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We've gotta have 'em all, like the pokemon thingies. :< Position and textures for sure. :x

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in a 100 prim hairdo it can save around 1.5 MB of script memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat65|[3:17] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[3:17] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I need position, rotation, and alpha.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat67|[3:17] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage? What about adding a Parameter type to the new efficient calls that allows you to specify which link you are addressing next?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they will work for all current llSetPrimiiveParameters parameters

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat69|[3:17] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If they are no delay, it won't matter.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat70|[3:17] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sweeeeeeet.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[3:17] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You mean llSetLinkList*, Darrius?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[3:17] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ty for that. (all params)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[3:17] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:o Happy news, Babbage! Totally worth waiting for 1.38.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[3:17] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Something like that Stick .. yes.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[3:18] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then you can just build one list and make one call.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[3:18] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But affect 100 prims.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat77|[3:18] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's a proposal for functions like that on Jira somewhere, I believe. It'd be nice, too. Qarl said it wouldn't be too hard.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|plus we're hoping to add PRIM_TEXT

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you can use the methods to get and set float text too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[3:18] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Anything for particle systems?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[3:18] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Woot @ PRIM_TEXT too.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll be able to tell you the final API after review after christmas

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat83|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|particle systems is in out backlog

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[3:18] ]]
| colspan="2"|Tonya Souther smiles. "I smell another place to put persistent storage."

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[3:18] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well .. we could always *help* review it. *grin*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat86|[3:19] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah floating text, not text directly on a prim...?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat87|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we may be able to get to that, but it depends how the sprint goes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[3:19] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|After Christmas? Late present, then.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat89|[3:19] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, hovertext

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, once we have the internal review i can let you know what we're planning

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[3:19] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but if particle systems are in there, that would remove the last per-prim script I use.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[3:19] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think it can only put, not get text.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then you can give feedback

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[3:19] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|dynamic/procedural textures would be a new feature.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also made some progress on our internal C# prototype

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[3:20] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tonya raises a good point .. persistent storage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fixed some bugs, got some more language features working

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[3:20] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I could suggest a way to get and set name and description in linked prims.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[3:20] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What would be useful now besides ARC is something like ASC... Avatar Script Count value, so we know which memory values we are talking of, per avatar. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great news on that front is that Mono 2.6 is officially out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|including the bytecode and metadata verifiers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and coreclr sandbox

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which we've literally been waiting years for

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[3:21] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So you already beta-implemented mono for client side? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:21] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well... LL could provide persistent storage for script after some extra payment or maybe tie it with preminium accounts...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.6

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[3:22] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, what is 2.6 allowing you to do new and different?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[3:22] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ARC is worthless, until the texture cache can actually umm... cache textures

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it means we can use the Mono defined mechanisms for verifying and sandboxing untrusted code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:22] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gooden: but output of single and global script memory would be helpful. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment we have our own verifier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's limited

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[3:22] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it allows server to validate mono IL - and allows us to write someday C# or some other mono compatible code and upload it to server

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[3:23] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So, a step closer towards resident-compiled assemblies?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we don't want to have to extend it to support the whole of the CIL instruction set

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[3:23] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, but the example scared me, sorry

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat117|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now we can use the Mono verifier

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat118|[3:23] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a metric that doesn't work...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(which I wrote some of the tests for in 2005...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also got WSGI asset upload in to QAR

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will hopefully be in 1.36

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and will make script compilation and other asset uploads more efficient

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and stop them being a DOS vector

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[3:24] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WSGI asset?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat125|[3:24] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there were problems with snapshots especially

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[3:24] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly hopes links will be provided to some of these acronyms .. cuz I'm really pretty new to a lot of them.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|on busy regions with lots of people taking and uploading pictures

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the upload service could end up using a lot of simulator host memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[3:25] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Web Server Gateway Interface... a cleaner way to gateway CGI-type applications.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as we were using CGI

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[3:25] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*nods* Ty

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which was spawning a python interpreter for every upload

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[3:25] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|snapshots are better than nothing, and all we have now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[3:25] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ouch!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now we have a single python interpreter

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as a WSGI daemon process

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and so asset upload is much more efficient

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and less likely to impact sim performance

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[3:26] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sweet .. cut out that upfront load time on each upload.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[3:26] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, where we are at snapshots, vote for http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12917 ... for snapshots savenames with timestamps in it. ^^

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat142|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will hopefully be in 1.36

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and I spent some time writing a blog post about script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[3:27] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly smiles ...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat145|[3:27] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How many of the responses have you been able to wade thru?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat146|[3:27] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah so? never heard of that blog post. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[3:27] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yus, we saw. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to hopefully sooth some of the swirl around that that kicked up over the weekend

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[3:27] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You wrote that a couple days after I asked a question on sldev about it. Good timing.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat150|[3:27] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|efficient assets sounds good, fixing the texture cache might make that more noticable, looks like we'll have to wait...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat151|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, there were some blog posts worrying about it too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[3:28] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The blog posts worrying are what made me ask for official info. Spreading panic is fun, but facts are more useful.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat153|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the important point is that we're not going to be enforcing script limits any time soon

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the proposed limits will be visible

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat155|[3:28] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you'll be able to let me know if they're way off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[3:28] ]]
| colspan="2"|Stickman Ingmann will.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[3:28] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How soon can we expect to see "official" statements on which metrics are measured and considered?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[3:29] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And how soon can we expect to see tools we can use to measure our own scripts - not at the script level, but much more fine-grained?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(but if you come to me saying that your 1000 prim hair and 1000 prim shoes with scripts in each prim aren't going to work, I'm going to be less sympathetic)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[3:29] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[3:29] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[3:29] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Darrius: avatar and parcel script memory usage are measured

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, the important tools are going to be in the next viewer release

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the UI is being worked on now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[3:29] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Planned release is ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[3:30] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooh yay, /me wants

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[3:30] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Can we get advance looks at the UI?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat168|[3:30] ]]
| Ashiri Sands:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(one script only in my hair)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[3:30] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, *Fast stuff should fix that script-in-every-prim thing. :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there's likely to be more information hanging off the objects tab

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in about land

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[3:30] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But wont it break existing content? I mean there are many hair designers right not with lots of scripted hair...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[3:30] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Glad to hear the UI is being worked on. There were some issues with that.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[3:30] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm a SL newbie (been here half as long as the next longer person here), but I've been programming for 35 years. I know how to program and to tune and to write efficient code - as long as there's a good way to see what's efficient and what's inefficient.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat175|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will show the size and location of each scripted object

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat176|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in your land and in attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[3:31] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Even for Parcel Owners and not just Sim or Region Owners?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat178|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, it will work for parcel owners

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[3:31] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not even parcel owners. I don't own a single plot of land, and need to see the stats.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[3:31] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And general residents?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[3:31] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah, it's going to break *some* existing content. Content creators need to be proactive and prepare for the change and be able to update their products for their customers.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|general residents will be able to see their attachment usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat183|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and available memory for attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[3:31] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about for objects they've owned and rezzed on the land?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6699CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat185|[3:32] ]]
| Ovaltine Constantine:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are we just talking memory or also script time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat186|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're just talking about script time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm, that's a good point darrius

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat188|[3:32] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|each avatar is able to see their own memory uage - but no one else can't see it, parcel owner can see memory usage in parcel that they own, sim owner can see memory usage in entire sim in all parcels

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[3:32] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What, exactly, is going to be limited?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat190|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for sandboxes we'll want everyone to see script sizes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll check that that will be the case

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[3:32] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ty

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat193|[3:32] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Am I going to have to buy land just to work on scripting?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tonya, the memory availabe to scripts is going to be limited

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat195|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|every square meter of land will give the parcel an amount of memory for scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat196|[3:33] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm curious... if the lab couldn't/can't measure the asset metrics that result in the viewer cache bugs still being largely ignored, how can scripts expect to be accurately measured? DDoS attacks on the asset servers from every viewer and it was denied for months...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[3:33] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See comment above about sandboxes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat198|[3:33] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have a Group for my land .. all in the group can build, but only a few have "owner" powers. What permission/ability will you need in order to see the overall stats for that Parcel?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[3:33] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tonya, ever try to build on nobuild land? You use attachments.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[3:33] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I rent my land.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[3:33] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tonya: you can use sandboxes and attachments for scripting normally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[3:33] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|renting will be fine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you'll normally be the owner of the land

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[3:34] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i hear a lot of fine things, and i trust the good doctor works hard, but... i have trust issues with the Lab...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat205|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with the person you rent from being the estate owner

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well then you have issues gooden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[3:34] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tell me these things will be fixed and i will believe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't work on the viewer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[3:34] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Uhm, not the places I've seen...you join the group that owns the land.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[3:34] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but i know i can measure the size of scripts accurately

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[3:35] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just the mono freeze and the CGC, will that get fixed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we do right now to cause them to stack/heap collision when they run out of memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat213|[3:35] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh.. that reminds me, will any of this script profiling be exposed to LSL via new functions at some point?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as i said, I'm going to be collecting callgrind data to send to the Mono devs today

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[3:35] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the CGC is working now?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat216|[3:35] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah, ok, thanks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[3:35] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good idea Talarus.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm working on the Mono freeze issue

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat219|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and have narrowed it down to a particular runtime function being slow

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I'm working with the Mono developers to fix it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[3:36] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tonya: There are generally 2 kind land rental business in here - one where you buy land from estate owner and pay monthly tier (rent) for her then - and then - where you pay access to group land (for example in big apartment buildings where multiple users are sharing same parcel)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[3:36] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|IE, will we be able to, for example, use a scripted monitor for our land to keep an eye on usage, or to automate profiling of scripts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:37] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You think the fix will roll out this year? :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:37] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|All of my land is the latter, Imaze, across 6 stores and two other places.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:37] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage .. a number of people have expressed an interest in seeing what sorts of things will be on the new "Script Details" tab/report. When can that be published in some solid form?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:37] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, could you lay to rest the rumor that LSL script memory usage metric is going to have a multiplier applied to it to discourage use of LSL?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[3:37] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tonya: If you can script there currently, you can script there also future - however - you are going to share parcel memory with everyone else in same parcel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[3:37] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lol, where'd that rumor come from?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment the plan is to show the name and location of each scripted object along with its size

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|plus buttons to put a beacon on the object and return it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[3:38] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i stayed awake because i wanted to hear from someone at the lab i know i can trust, do you really believe that the fix for the mono freeze is close and the script limits are necessary?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that may change as it's not finalized yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat233|[3:38] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will "size" be explodable to show each script in that object too?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|probably not

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat235|[3:38] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Darn .. please??

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[3:38] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh dear.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat237|[3:38] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How else will we determine which script is at fault?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat238|[3:38] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is that possible, and you don't want to provide it, or?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|each script is the same size, at least at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat240|[3:39] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not just which script, Darrius, which *function*?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat241|[3:39] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*nods* True.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat242|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're still discussing what to do about Mono vs LSO accounting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for some scripts, LSO is more efficient

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat244|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, we want to get away from supporting 2 VMs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat245|[3:40] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...hang on, Babbage. You mean my big hairy 1250-line main script uses the same memory as my 120-line prim adjustment worker script?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat246|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(in fact we want to get away from supporting any virtual machines)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat247|[3:40] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, any chance of getting an llSetLinkListPrimitiveParamsFast so we can specify a list of things to change, instead of looping through several calls? Also, would that make a signficant difference in bytecode or processing usage to make it worthwhile?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat248|[3:40] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But I thought VMs were your insurance against aggressive or abusive scripting?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat249|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, we may add a higher cost to LSO scripts to avoid people both VMs in to the future

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's still being discussed though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[3:41] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oooh .. not so keen on that idea Babbage. Sorry .. just saying.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[3:41] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ouch.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Tonya, each script has a reserved memory and a used memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment each LSO script has 16K reserved memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[3:42] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Just make the mono part really good so that we dont need old lsl anymore. :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[3:42] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|With 56,000 products in that wild that will drive us crazy doinf updates. :-(

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[3:42] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the wild

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and each Mono script has 64K reserved Memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in most cases Mono is more efficient with memory than LSO

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat260|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but in some cases, when you use lots of lists or recursion for example, Mono can end up using more memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[3:42] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What about "Mono Lite" .. that only reserves 16K memory .. so we can choose to voluntarily shrink our memory requirements but still use Mono?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat262|[3:43] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It seems that Mono memory is allocated in 512-byte blocks.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[3:43] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at least in terms of the "used" vs "reserved" distinction.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we released Mono we gave it a bigger reserved memory so people could convert their scripts to Mono easily without having stack/heap collusions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat265|[3:43] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|...and using lots of lists is needed because of no persistent storage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[3:43] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh no! The stack is in collusion with the heap! :D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[3:43] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|^5's Tonya. *grin*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat268|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have plans for allowing Mono scripts to change their reserved memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat269|[3:44] ]]
| Tillie Ariantho:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat270|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you'll be able to reserve 4K for a Mono script just responding to a door

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat271|[3:44] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Excellent. And that planned roll-out for that memory reservation is ?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or reserve 1MB for a script sitting in a region doing pathfinding or whatever

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[3:44] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in order to do that well, Babbage, we'll need to see how much each script *needs*.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[3:45] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That would be nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tonya, yes, so we should also be able to add a get used memory function

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[3:45] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah .. real live memory management calls would be a minimum.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[3:45] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will be llGetFreeMemory() more accurate to know exactly the memory that a script is using?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for Mono scripts at least

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[3:45] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, until someone reserves 1mb in several attachments and tries teleporting around. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|except that script limits will be in place before memory reservation

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[3:45] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL @ Talarus

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[3:45] ]]
| colspan="2"|Stickman Ingmann puts on 90MBs of script attachments.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[3:45] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Talarus, I believe the term for that is TELEPORT FAIL.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[3:46] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LMAO

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[3:46] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is why there is coming memory limitiations for attachments too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[3:46] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, if you provide the capability, someone is going to do it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once you have script limits, there's no reason not to let 1 script reserve all the memory in a parcel

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat288|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will make it much easier to develop complex scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat289|[3:46] ]]
| colspan="2"|Talarus Luan nodnods

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat290|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|without having to break them in to many small pieces

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat291|[3:46] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I also used the word "tries" ;)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat292|[3:46] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly shoots Stickman with a 50MB bullet ...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat293|[3:46] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hahaha

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat294|[3:46] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've got one script I had to break in half because I ran out of memory, and would love to be able to put back together.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat295|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you get to a certain complexity of script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[3:47] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|About 1300 lines, in my experience. :3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[3:47] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, some sort of llGetMemoryType(TYPE_CONSTANT) call would be wonderful too.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[3:47] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, before hours are up, there's two topics that have come up that I'm really interested in knowing more about.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat300|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and then you're forced to make it even more complex by breaking it up and making the scripts link message to each other

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat301|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat302|[3:47] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One is persistant memory storage. Is there any solution for that on the drawing board?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC99;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat303|[3:47] ]]
| lufpleh Obstreperous:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what happens to me/my attached scripts if a bot is on a parcel and has reserved all the memory?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat304|[3:48] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Votes for that ...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat305|[3:48] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<littlekittenvoice> please? </littlekittenvoice>

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat306|[3:48] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Right now, I think the best thing is pinging an external server, or names/descriptions. Or even alpha/color values on prim faces.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat307|[3:49] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I filed a JIRA suggesting a new type of Item inside prims that is a Datastore/Datagrid type .. and cannot leave the Host Prim.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat308|[3:49] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lufpleh: each avatar is going to have fixed amount of memory available for their attachment - your bot can't allocate someone elses memory

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are discussion about persistent storage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[3:49] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, you can store stuff in scripts, too, but that's as dicey as anything in SL in terms of persistence.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat311|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but they're a way off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat312|[3:49] ]]
| colspan="2"|Stickman Ingmann nods.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat313|[3:49] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Glad to hear it's being discussed, at least.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat314|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|our roadmap dissapears off in to the distance

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat315|[3:49] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The other question I had was...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat316|[3:49] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Once we have C# and libraries, we could define a persistency API for scripts that could plug into whatever persistence engine we wanted to use. :d

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat317|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but at least we have a roadmap for scripting now

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat318|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and are heading down it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat319|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|liandra

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat320|[3:50] ]]
| colspan="2"|Darrius Gothly wants a copy of that map ..

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat321|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|exactly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat322|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's close to what we're thinking about

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat323|[3:50] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is it possible to get llSetLinkListPrimitiveParamsFast (for lists of prims) alongside the new llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(), and would it be a benefit in bytecode or processing enough to warrent doing.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat324|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i've told you about a lot of things on that roadmap

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat325|[3:50] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Heck, I'd settle for some kind of file metaphor.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat326|[3:50] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Assuming we can add multiple event handlers to a events. Like layering http_response events, etc...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat327|[3:51] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to suggest that Persistent Storage is such a primal need of scripts in general, that shunting it off-world is building in an inefficiency that should be included in the main library.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat328|[3:51] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*an event

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat329|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stickman, i don't think the processing savings warrant it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat330|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|calling to unmanaged code from Mono is pretty quick

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat331|[3:51] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yep, without a delay, it pretty much is the same thing, speed-wise.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat332|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|darrius there are a lot of issues with persistent storage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat333|[3:52] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can't tell any appreciable difference between sending a link message to each of 200 link numbers in a list in a loop and using LINK_SET. I'd assume primparams would be much the same. <_<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat334|[3:52] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good to know. I'm a scripter, not a programmer. So I was curious. Thank you. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat335|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment sim hosts are set up to basically be able to fall in to the see without too much of a problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat336|[3:52] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Scripting isn't programming? <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat337|[3:52] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Scripting isn't programming.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat338|[3:52] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just one idea for LL marketing department - add persistent storage for premium account owners :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat339|[3:52] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|However, the number of arguments to llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() for different argument types is different. Without a list call, we'll have to use a n-strided list with n being the largest number of arguments, which will waste memory.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat340|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you have precious persistent data on sim hosts we have to be much more careful with them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat341|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or set up complex backup systems to each sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat342|[3:53] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I asked a programmer at my college what he would say if I claimed to be one. His reply cannot be repeated in kind company.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat343|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ops likes not having to care when a sim host melts or dies at the moemnt

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat344|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|being able to just plug a new one in is nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat345|[3:53] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My proposal actually tied into the Asset memory, not the Sim memory. Much like floating text and other such attributes are now.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat346|[3:53] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've got some offworld data persistency stuff for appengine kicking around here somewhere if any of y'all want it. It's free to use, has big quotas, and will be around long after ya get hit by a bus.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat347|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, but being able to programatically create assets is also scary

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat348|[3:54] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|..or until Google gets bored and dumps it. <.<

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat349|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we'd have to make sure it was correctly throttled etc

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat350|[3:54] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Not create an asset .. add to an asset's existing attributes.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat351|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, complex

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat352|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but on the roadmap

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat353|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which i should get back to heading down

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat354|[3:55] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Before you leave .. any expected time line for first view Script Limits?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat355|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any more questions before i head off?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat356|[3:55] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|When can we expect to start seeing numbers?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat357|[3:55] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|wouldnt be easier to store persistent date in a object, to allow a script to create/write a notecard in the content of the object?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat358|[3:55] ]]
| Liandra Ceawlin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks for your time, Babbage, and for the fast primparams work. This is awesome news. <3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat359|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you'd have to talk to the viewer devs about that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat360|[3:55] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage, any prospect for allowing lists to contain lists in LSL? Right now, we're stuck to single-dimensioned arrays. FORTRAN got past that in 1957.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat361|[3:55] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One question: Will the not-so-tiny bug with rotations be fixed in their fast version?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat362|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're going to have the UI done for it before christmas

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat363|[3:55] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So llGetLinkPrimitiveParams() is 1.38 as well?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat364|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but i don't know what the release schedule will be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat365|[3:56] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There was a thread on sldev about writing to notecards. Short answer: Not gonna happen.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat366|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|stickman, hopefully efficient scripts wll be in 1.38

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat367|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that's not frozen yet, so i can't say for sure until it is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat368|[3:56] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'd love to get at least a puppet show of the new UI .. even with the caveat that "everything here will probably change"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat369|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll see what i can do

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat370|[3:57] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|:D

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat371|[3:57] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ty .. cuz right now we hear something coming .. just dunno if it's an elephant or a bunny rabbit.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat372|[3:57] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or a bunny rabbit with nasty sharp pointy teeth!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat373|[3:57] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm worried about having 56,000 avatars out in the wild becoming suddenly obsolete, even though we only avearage 15-25 scripts per av, most of them very concise.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat374|[3:57] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL Is that you Pink?? *grin*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat375|[3:57] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's the bus... same as always...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat376|[3:57] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have a good morning...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat377|[3:57] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|About the only other thing I can think of is llLinkTargetOmega and llSetLinkTextureAnim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat378|[3:57] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|LOL @ Gooden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat379|[3:58] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you for your time and information Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat380|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your welcome

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat381|[3:58] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Indeed. Thank you.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat382|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm off on vacation this week

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat383|[3:58] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat384|[3:58] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Aye, thanks. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat385|[3:58] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thank you babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#006633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat386|[3:58] ]]
| Ashiri Sands:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat387|[3:58] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Who's handling putting the log on the wiki?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat388|[3:58] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Vacation .. whazzat??

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat389|[3:58] ]]
| Talarus Luan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Happy holidays. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat390|[3:58] ]]
| Tonya Souther:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, babbage. This is the first time I've actually been able to speak with anyone *at* Linden Labs.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat391|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so this is the last office hour of the year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat392|[3:58] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Enjoy your time off, Babbage!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat393|[3:58] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks, babbage, take care, and have fun :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat394|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|have a lovely holiday and see you in 2010

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat395|[3:58] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#009900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat396|[3:58] ]]
| Stickman Ingmann:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Merry Christmas, and happy New Year!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat397|[3:58] ]]
| Darrius Gothly:
| style="white-space:normal;"|See ya next year!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat398|[3:58] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh, so see you in next year.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat399|[3:59] ]]
| Gooden Uggla:
| style="white-space:normal;"|tponya, go see blue, he has field trips :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat400|[3:59] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|merry christmas!
|}

User:Chiyo Linden/Office Hours/2009 06 12

2009-12-11T14:13:54Z

Nock Forager: Reformat the layout and fix some link.

Transcript of [[User:Chiyo_Linden|Chiyo Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[4:59] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今晩は～

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[4:59] ]]
| seu Ahn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ちよさんこんばんわー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[4:59] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kei　Kamachiにも・・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[4:59] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今晩は～

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[4:59] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばわー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[4:59] ]]
| Cimon Cham:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんは～

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[4:59] ]]
| egoiste Beck:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんわー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[4:59] ]]
| Vash Matova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんはー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[4:59] ]]
| tonton Meili:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんはー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat10|[4:59] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れ様です、千代さん

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[4:59] ]]
| Rouki Furse:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんわー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat12|[4:59] ]]
| Rouki's translator:
| style="white-space:normal;"|- KONBANWA

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[4:59] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんはー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[4:59] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れ様です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[5:00] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクがオフです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat16|[5:00] ]]
| Aoi Taurog:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[5:00] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクがオンになります。「マイクの終了」をタイプして終了して下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6633CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat18|[5:00] ]]
| pppppp Oh:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんわー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[5:00] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクの終了

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[5:00] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat21|[5:00] ]]
| SAZABI Flanagan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんは＝

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[5:00] ]]
| Kazu Oldrich:
| style="white-space:normal;"|す、すごい人だ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat23|[5:00] ]]
| Rouki Furse:
| style="white-space:normal;"|うんうん

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[5:00] ]]
| Kazu Oldrich:
| style="white-space:normal;"|重くなってきた・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat25|[5:01] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kazuさんの体重？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[5:01] ]]
| Yumemaru Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat27|[5:01] ]]
| Kazu Oldrich:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おいら激軽

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat28|[5:01] ]]
| Kazu Oldrich:
| style="white-space:normal;"|321しかない
|}

== 解説 ==
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|時間ですので早速はじめますね

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat30|[5:02] ]]
| Vash Matova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|宜しくお願いします

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[5:02] ]]
| seu Ahn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|よろしくおねがいしますー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|本日の説明会はアダルトコンテンツを移動するアダルト大陸ＺＩＮＤＲＡの紹介、またそれに関する年齢認証についてお話します。以前同様に説明会の内容は下記のリンクに記載されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[5:02] ]]
| Rouki Furse:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おねがいしますー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat34|[5:02] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|宜しく。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Chiyo_Linden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらで20分ほどの説明を終えた時点で質問回答の場を設けさせて頂きます。質問回答は時間のある限り行います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[5:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|尚、この質問時間は個人的な質問は避けるようにお願いします。個人的な質問は通常同様に jpsupport@secondlife.com までメールにてお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[5:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|現在かなりの御問合せが殺到しておりますので多少通常よりも返信が遅くなるかもしれませんので、御了承下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[5:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|また、日本語公式サイトにも大分サポート内容が追加されていますので、そちらも御参考下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[5:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jp.secondlife.com/support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[5:04] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|まず始めに日本語のナレッジベースに「アダルト向けコンテンツの管理に関する良くある質問集」並びに「アダルト関連コンテンツの管理：定義に関するブラウンバッグミーティング概要」とリンクがそれぞれありますのでそちらも御参照下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[5:04] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルトコンテンツとは何を指すのか、これはベンダーにどのような影響を与えるのか、導入の理由は、など様々な内容が記載されています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[5:04] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/日本語ナレッジベース
|}

=== よくある質問 ===
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[5:05] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今回はその他の点で日本語サポートに関わらず、全般的によくある質問内容を触れさせて頂き、その点を少しお話しようと思い、説明会を行わせて頂きました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[5:06] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問・回答形式で紹介致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[5:06] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問１：年齢認証はセカンドライフを今後行うのに必須ですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[5:06] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：いいえ。年齢認証はまったくの任意です。アダルト大陸に行かれる希望される方のみ行って頂くようになります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[5:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問２：アダルト大陸にはどの様にしたら入れますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[5:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：年齢認証、あるいは支払い情報の登録が必要です。支払い情報登録の場合は最低1つでもリンデンラボ社との金銭取引が必要です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[5:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問3：すると支払い情報登録されていれば年齢認証されていると考えていいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[5:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：いいえ。年齢認証と支払い情報登録は別の行為です。どちらか１つを行っていればアダルト大陸に入れます。でも個人別の土地設定により年齢認証を行った住民の方のみとして設定する土地所有者の方も居られるかもしれません。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[5:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問4：ウェブサイトで試しても年齢認証がうまくいきません。どうすればいいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat53|[5:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：英語公式サイトからログインしてサポートチケットを提出、あるいは日本語サポートまで御連絡下さい。その際に身分証明書（パスポート、免許証、保険証）などをスキャン、あるいはデジタルカメラで撮影頂き、添付ファイルとして送信いただくようにお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[5:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問5：個人情報などをネットを通してメールで送るのはちょっと心配です。問題ないでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat55|[5:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：問題なく安全に行っています。リンデンラボ社では個人情報の公開、他社への提供など一切行っていません。よってリンデンラボ社以外からアクセスできません。でもやはり心配と思われる場合は、お顔の写真、本籍地などを隠していただいても結構です。あまり隠されてしまい、どの身分証明書か判明できなくなると認証できませんのでその点も御考慮下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[5:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問6：身分証明書と登録情報と異なる場合はどうしたらいいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[5:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：アカウント作成時に適当な情報で登録された方もいらっしゃると思います。その場合、ウェブサイトからの年齢認証がうまくいかないと思います。適当な情報を入れてしまったので覚えていません。教えて下さい、とサポートに連絡を頂く事もありますが、個人情報は安全の為公開できませんので、質問4の回答した方法でファイル添付と共にアカウント名、メールアドレスを含んで年齢認証の依頼を日本語サポートまでお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[5:11] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問7：セカンドライフで商売をしてます。アダルトコンテンツを含むものを売っていますが移動しないといけないんでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[5:11] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：引き続いてアダルトコンテンツの商品を売る場合は引越しが必要です。アダルト大陸導入後、アダルトコンテンツを販売する場合は、通常のメインランドとは別のＺＩＮＤＲＡへのの引越しが必要となります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat60|[5:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問8：アダルトコンテンツのものを売っていますが、プライベートのＳＩＭで行ってます。それでも移動が必要ですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[5:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：いいえ。でもアイランドの設定がＰＧやマチュアでなくアダルト設定になることが必要です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[5:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問9：実際、いつの実施になりますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[5:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：数週間以内（今月末）に少しずつ実行されると思います。まずはアダルトコンテンツ使用されている方の移動から始まります。色々と明確でない点、判断が良く分からない点など特に初期状態にあると思いますので、実施後数ヶ月は移転機関として徐々に実行するかたちになると思います。アダルト大陸が公開された時点で場所を3つ選択し、その場所と現在所有する土地などの情報を含んでチケットの発行となります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat64|[5:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|詳しくはこちらです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[5:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6345

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat66|[5:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|追記ですが、日本語サポートへ頂いても問題はないのですが、土地はいわゆる「早い者勝ち」ですので、日本語サポート経由ですと遅れをとると思います。よって、出来ましたら直接行われるのが一番です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[5:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問10：スキンはどうでしょうか？ＰＧやマチュアの地域でスキン販売は行えますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat68|[5:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：はい、行えます。でも全裸のポスターなど使用せず、特にＰＧエリアの場合など性的に対象となる部分を隠していただくのがよいかと思います。でもスキンなど性的な行為を目的とした商品ではないので商品自体アダルトコンテント商品とは多少異なってくると思います。しかしながら不安に思われる場合は隠して頂くのが無難です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[5:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問11：マチュアの地域にホームを所有していますがそこでの性行為はいいんでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat70|[5:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|回答：はい。マチュア地域内の私的活動を細かく追跡しません。アダルトコンテンツ実行の目的は個人的な同意する大人の間の行為を管理するのでなく、セカンドライフ内のアダルトコンテンツの商業が対象です。
|}

== 質疑応答 ==
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[5:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|簡単ですが、これからは質問が色々とあると思いますので、これから受けさせて頂きます。マイクをクリックして順番にお名前が表示されると思いますのでお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat72|[5:17] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクがオンになります。「マイクの終了」をタイプして終了して下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[5:18] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hiromi Hamaskiさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[5:18] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|いいでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[5:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[5:18] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SIMごとのマチュアとアダルトの境が

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[5:18] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|少々あいまいすぎるように思えるのですが・・・・。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat78|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|というのは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PGでないから銃撃もOKという

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat80|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|そういう戦闘系の人が

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|街で銃乱射をしても

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PGじゃないんだからいいだろ？と

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|テロしてない、容認行動だと

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[5:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|言う可能性も出てくると思うんですが。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[5:20] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あくまでアダルトが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[5:20] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Naonao Watanabeさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[5:20] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|性的行為にのみ絞るのであれば

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat88|[5:20] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それ以外の行動に対する対応を

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[5:20] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|どうすればいいか教えてください

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[5:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|先ほどお話したようにセカンドライフ内のアダルトコンテンツの商業分野の管理が目的です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[5:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|また性的行為のみというよりも

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[5:22] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nagisa Horanさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat93|[5:22] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hildegard Burnsteinさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[5:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|行為の内容が特に重視されると思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[5:23] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|でもこれは地域設定において違反になるのではないか、と思われる場合は嫌がらせ報告の提出をお願いしています

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[5:23] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|なるほど。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat97|[5:23] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あと、

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[5:23] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[5:23] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Naonao Watanabeさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[5:23] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あ、

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[5:23] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|良いです次へ＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[5:23] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートSIMをアダルトに設定する必要が生じるのはいつですか？また、アダルトに設定すると座標も変わるのでしょうか？座標が変わる場合は古いランドマークは使用出来ますか？また、同時に移動やSIMの連結は出来ますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[5:24] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Naoyuki Mertelさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat104|[5:24] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|新しいクライアントが公開された時点で変更可能です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[5:24] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|RCです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat106|[5:24] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|位置は変わりません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[5:24] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それから、さきほど、支払い情報を登録してすればアダルト大陸に入れるとおっしゃいましたが、アダルト設定のプライベートSIMにも入れるのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat108|[5:25] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|RCは出てますがサーバー側がまだですのでまだ起動できない点もあると思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[5:25] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|支払い登録して取引を１回以上行えば

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[5:25] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルト大陸に入れるとおっしゃいましたが、アダルト設定のプライベートSIMにも入れるのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[5:26] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それは所有者の方の設定です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat112|[5:26] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートの場合

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[5:26] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|では、SIMがAdultでも、土地やSImの設定で

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat114|[5:27] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|年齢認証をしていない成人を拒否していなければ入れると言うことでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat115|[5:27] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートのアイランドの不動産設定が優先ですので

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[5:29] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|土地設定は別になります

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[5:30] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートのアイランドですと

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat118|[5:30] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルトの設定にして、支払い情報、年齢認証いずれもチェックしないと

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[5:30] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|リンデンラボ社のデフォルト設定になります

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat120|[5:31] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[5:31] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat122|[5:31] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nagisa Horanさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[5:31] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[5:31] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルトコンテンツの商業分野の管理が目的ですとのことですが、その基準があいまいだと思いますので、具体的に、今回の規制でどこまでが対象になるのか、お聞きしたいです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[5:31] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|エスコート行為、ホテルなどの場所の提供、バーなどの一部にプレーする物・道具が置いてあるなど、さまざまな事例があると思いますが、その判断は個々人の判断になるのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[5:32] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ブラウンバッグの議事録で色々と関連した点が記載されています

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[5:33] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|上記の例ですとすべてアダルトコンテンツに含まれると思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[5:33] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|では、その行為自体ができるものが置いてあれば

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[5:34] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|目的を考えていただくとアダルトコンテンツと思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[5:34] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートな空間でない場合はアダルトになると思っていいのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[5:35] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|そうなります

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[5:35] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、ありがとうございます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat133|[5:35] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[5:35] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hildegard Burnsteinさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[5:35] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|３点あります

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[5:35] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|いくつかの隣接するプライベートアイランドでPG・Mature・Adultそれぞれが存在していても良いのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[5:35] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルトコンテンツの商業分野の管理と言うことですが「商業」の定義を教えてください。アダルトコンテンツのある個人施設を無料で公開する場合も抵触しますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat138|[5:35] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|裸でもない・性行為も無い・暴力的でもない。麻薬でもない、は非ダルトですか

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat139|[5:36] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|隣接存在はオッケーです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[5:37] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|無料でも、たとえばフリーセックスなどを行っていればアダルトで対象になります。目的、行為を考えますと対象になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[5:38] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|裸でもない・性行為も無い・暴力的でもない。麻薬でもない、ですと対象外と思われます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[5:38] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat143|[5:39] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|現実世界で未成年は入れないような状況を考ええ頂くと多少わかりやすいかとおもいます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[5:39] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[5:39] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[5:39] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Naoyuki Mertelさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat147|[5:39] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat148|[5:39] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今回の規制は、Mature 区分のなかより、Adult 区分を抽出するということでPG エリアの定義に関しては、従来どおりで特に変更がないと考えてもよいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat149|[5:39] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|現実世界で未成年は入れないような状況]

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[5:40] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お酒？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[5:40] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|つまり、PGエリアにおいて、アダルトコンテンツを含まない、ショップ（洋服・家具など）やカフェの運営は可能でしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat152|[5:40] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|可能です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[5:41] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Naonao Watanabeさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat154|[5:41] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|モールなどの運営はPGではできない、とうわさがあるようですが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[5:41] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[5:41] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|モールであっても、アダルトコンテンツを含まないものであれば

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat157|[5:41] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|上記であげられた例ですと問題ありません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[5:42] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PGエリアでも可能でしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[5:42] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|可能です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[5:42] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|了解です。ありがとうございます＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[5:42] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|先ほども話しましたがスキンも全裸などのポスター表示がなければPGでも販売できます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat162|[5:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat163|[5:43] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Naonao Watanabeさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[5:43] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|年齢認証は本当に安全なのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat165|[5:43] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anemone Lavalさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat166|[5:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、その点かなり重点をおいて行っております

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat167|[5:43] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|年齢認証はアメリカにあるAristotleという企業が一手に引き受けているそうですが、信頼出来る会社ですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat168|[5:44] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|個人情報など繊細な情報を扱いますので信頼置ける会社をかなり厳しく選択して行っております

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[5:45] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|分かりました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat170|[5:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ちなみに年齢認証はセカンドライフを引き続いて行うにあたり必須ではありません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[5:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルトコンテンツの大陸にはいるにも支払い情報、年齢認証いずれかがリンデンラボ社の設定です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat172|[5:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat173|[5:46] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anemone Lavalさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat174|[5:46] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|simの名前についてです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[5:47] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートアイランドの名称はPGであるのが原則です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[5:48] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|この点は変更ありません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[5:48] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|名称が購入時にオッケーであった場合は問題ないと思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[5:49] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ゲーム関係とはどのようなゲームかわかりませんが、その内容によって変わってくると思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat179|[5:49] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|金銭のからむゲームです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat180|[5:50] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今までお話したアダルトコンテンツに触れないようなゲームですと現状とおりに行えると思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat181|[5:50] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、わかりました＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat182|[5:50] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございます＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[5:51] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ほかにご質問ある方いらっしゃいますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat184|[5:51] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Iori Hironsさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat185|[5:51] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[5:51] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Iori Hironsさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat187|[5:52] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Zex Nagyさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[5:52] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルト大陸へは最初の数ヶ月はメインランドの土地と無料交換ですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat189|[5:52] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それはいま現在アダルトコンテンツを置いて無くても無条件で頼めますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[5:53] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|交換でなくアダルト大陸の土地を新規に購入する場合、５１２でいくらぐらいになる予定ですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[5:53] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルト大陸へは最初の数ヶ月はメインランドの土地と無料交換ですか？こちらはそうなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat192|[5:54] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それはいま現在アダルトコンテンツを置いて無くても無条件で頼めますか？こちらは現在アダルトコンテンツを含む場合になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[5:54] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|一応、置いて無くても置けばいいのですよね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat194|[5:55] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|無料引越しのあとに土地の販売が行われますが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[5:55] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|オークションとなります

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[5:55] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|将来の予定で確保するにはとりあえずアダルトな物を置けばその交換にできるということですね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat197|[5:56] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|現在アダルトコンテンツを使用している土地をお持ちであれば無料で引越しとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[5:57] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|いまから何か置けばいいのですね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat199|[5:57] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|いまでも？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat200|[5:57] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|先ほどの英語サポートのページに土地交換詳細があります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat201|[5:57] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|オークションとなると高騰しそうで心配です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat202|[5:58] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|無料で交換ができるのでアダルトコンテンツを通常しようしていないのにそのためだけにおくというのはちょっと

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[5:58] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|疑問のような気もしますが、その点は注意して行ってください

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[5:58] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|将来の予定で確保が必要なので、いまメインランドの土地を買うのならやすくならできるわけですから問題ないと思いますよ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[5:59] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|可能性として

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[5:59] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問は今アダルトコンテンツを使用しいなくてもいまおけば

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat207|[5:59] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アダルト大陸のとちと　交換できるか、というようにあ解釈しました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat208|[6:00] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|置いて無くても無条件で受け入れるべきだと思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat209|[6:00] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ビジネスを行っている方が優先です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat210|[6:00] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|メインランドの相場にまで下がるには何ヶ月もかかるでしょうから、それを考えると

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[6:01] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ビジネスの計画を考えている場合です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat212|[6:01] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|商品作っての展示とか

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat213|[6:01] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それでもすでに無事ネスを行っている方々が優先です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[6:01] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ビジネス＊

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[6:02] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lan Ferrarisさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[6:02] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それでは明日から始める人は損になりますよ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat217|[6:02] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|相場が安定するまでにかかる期間を想定すれば

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat218|[6:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|時間がせまってますので次の方にいきますが、納得行かない点は日本語サポートにメールしてください。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[6:03] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|数ヶ月後の予定の人も平等に扱わないといけないと思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat220|[6:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat221|[6:03] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Zex Nagyさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat222|[6:03] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[6:03] ]]
| Zex Nagy:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BETA版の年齢認証では、入力直後の確認画面のようなものがなかったのですが、将来的にはつくのでしょうか？　万が一入力情報が間違っていた場合、アカウントの剥奪等はあるのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[6:04] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アカウントの剥奪等はないと思います

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[6:04] ]]
| Zex Nagy:
| style="white-space:normal;"|なるほど

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[6:05] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|将来的にどのようになるかこの点はまだはっきりとしていません。何か不安な場合、あるいは結果よくわからない場合はサポートまでお願いしております

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat227|[6:05] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat228|[6:05] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lan Ferrarisさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat229|[6:05] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|年齢認証は失敗しても何回もやり直せますよ、自動ですぐ出るので

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat230|[6:06] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|まず、確認ですが、武器や兵器の販売はアダルトエリア扱いになりますか?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat231|[6:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|特に普通の武器、兵器であればアダルトにはなりません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat232|[6:07] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dug Oceanlaneさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[6:07] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nagisa Horanさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat234|[6:07] ]]
| SAZABI Flanagan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|（普通のってなんだろｗ）

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat235|[6:07] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その、普通の定義は？＾＾；

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat236|[6:07] ]]
| SALA Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[6:08] ]]
| Zig March:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(こんばんは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[6:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|（nagisa Horanさんが最後の質もんでお願いします）

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat239|[6:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|過激なバイオレンスが対象です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[6:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|首切り、グロテスクなバイオレンスなどです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[6:09] ]]
| Vash Matova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fallout３みたいなのだな

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[6:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あるいは暴行などのバイオレンスも含まれます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[6:10] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|たとえば、血が吹き出したりアバターがバラバラにならなければ、撃たれたり切られたりして倒れるような仕組みになっている場合は対象外でしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[6:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|兵器や武器でそういった行為ができなければアダルトコンテンツではありません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat245|[6:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|対象外です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat246|[6:11] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|では、最後に確認ですが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[6:11] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|戦闘機や戦車等でもバイオレンスな事にならなければ対象外と思ってよろしいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[6:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|先ほどの例に当てはまらなければ対象外です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[6:12] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、ありがとうございました＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[6:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat251|[6:12] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Dug Oceanlaneさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat252|[6:12] ]]
| Dug Oceanlane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|複数アカウントを所有している場合、同じ個人情報での年齢認証をすることは出来ますか？また、PGエリア内にて、”セックス行為以外”のアニメーション、例えばキス行為などのアニメボールの設置は問題ないという理解で宜しいでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat253|[6:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|同じ個人情報でできます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat254|[6:13] ]]
| Dug Oceanlane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|また、Zindraへの引越しに関する定義ページの、和訳の投稿予定はありますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat255|[6:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その理解で問題ありません。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[6:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|キス行為など

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat257|[6:15] ]]
| BatBird Blauvelt:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat258|[6:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おそらく和訳は行われるとおもいますが、時間的にいつごろかはちょっとわかりませんので、日本語のナレッジベースなど頻繁にチェックするようにお願いできますでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat259|[6:15] ]]
| Dug Oceanlane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|日本語のナレッジベースは

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat260|[6:15] ]]
| Dug Oceanlane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|URLはどこから辿れますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[6:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/日本語ナレッジベース

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat262|[6:16] ]]
| Dug Oceanlane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|分かりました＾＾どうもありがとうございます。私からは以上です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat263|[6:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat264|[6:16] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nagisa Horanさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat265|[6:16] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんな質問が最後なのが申し訳ないのですが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat266|[6:16] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|土地交換の件で、仮に、4000平米を持っていたとして、普通に一塊での交換でなく、同一ＳＩＭで場所を離して、3000と1000のような交換というのは可能ですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat267|[6:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|可能なはずですので、サポートにそのように申請するようにお願いいたします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat268|[6:17] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat269|[6:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その点では逆もオッケーです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[6:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|皆さん、ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat271|[6:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|尚、オフィスアワーを同じ時間帯に毎週金曜に設けておりますので宜しければお話し合いに起こし下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat272|[6:18] ]]
| pipinpa Allen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまでしたー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat273|[6:18] ]]
| Iori Hirons:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ごくろうさまー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC00CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat274|[6:18] ]]
| Hildegard Burnstein:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat275|[6:18] ]]
| seu Ahn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまですー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336633;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat276|[6:18] ]]
| Dug Oceanlane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました！

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat277|[6:18] ]]
| Zex Nagy:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat278|[6:18] ]]
| lan Ferraris:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat279|[6:18] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れ様でした。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#339966;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat280|[6:18] ]]
| Kouk Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまですー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[6:18] ]]
| Kazu Oldrich:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまでしたー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[6:18] ]]
| midori Paulse:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれでーす

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9933CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[6:18] ]]
| Aoi Taurog:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[6:18] ]]
| hima Hirano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがと～

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC9900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat285|[6:18] ]]
| Naoyuki Mertel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#330033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat286|[6:18] ]]
| nagisa Horan:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat287|[6:18] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ご苦労様でした。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CC66;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat288|[6:18] ]]
| Zig March:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまでしたー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#9900CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat289|[6:18] ]]
| Naonao Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れ様でした

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat290|[6:18] ]]
| tonton Meili:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまでした～

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat291|[6:18] ]]
| Miya Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat292|[6:18] ]]
| Kima Nagy:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまですー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat293|[6:19] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまでしたー＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat294|[6:19] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|有難う御座いました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CC00;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat295|[6:19] ]]
| SALA Loon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れ様でした

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0099;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat296|[6:19] ]]
| Yumemaru Lane:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat297|[6:19] ]]
| Miya Watanabe:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あれ？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat298|[6:19] ]]
| midori Paulse:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あれ、なんか、触っちゃったかな・・・無視してください

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#99CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat299|[6:19] ]]
| Kima Nagy:
| style="white-space:normal;"|え？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat300|[6:19] ]]
| hima Hirano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|？？？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat301|[6:19] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|では、急に恐縮ですが、これにて失礼いたします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat302|[6:19] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ぶ＾＾；

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0099CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat303|[6:19] ]]
| hima Hirano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あれ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat304|[6:19] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクの終了

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat305|[6:19] ]]
| anemone Laval:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ごめんなさい＾＾；

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat306|[6:19] ]]
| Hiromi Hamaski:
| style="white-space:normal;"|みどさんいたｗ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat307|[6:19] ]]
| midori Paulse:
| style="white-space:normal;"|え？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat308|[6:19] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#6600CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat309|[6:19] ]]
| kamimoto Kidd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ご苦労様でした。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC3366;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat310|[6:19] ]]
| Cimon Cham:
| style="white-space:normal;"|おつかれさまでした
|}

User:Chiyo Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 11

2009-12-11T13:42:47Z

Nock Forager:

Transcript of [[User:Chiyo_Linden|Chiyo Linden]]'s office hours:

== 解説 ==
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[4:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|早速始めますね。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat2|[4:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|かなり久しぶりの説明会となりましたが本日の説明会はサポート移転にかかわり、公式サイトからのサポート利用方法、チケット送信について、並びに現在ご利用可能なサポート情報についてお話します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[4:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|以前同様に説明会の内容は下記のリンクに記載されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat4|[4:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Chiyo_Linden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[4:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|以前のトピックもNockさんのヘルプにより記載されています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat6|[4:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらで20分ほどの説明を終えた時点で質問回答の場を設けさせて頂きます。質問回答は時間のある限り行います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|尚、この質問時間は個人的な質問は避けるようにお願いします。個人的な質問は今回の課題となっているサポートをご利用になり、チケットの送信として御問合せをお願い致します。
|}

=== 各種サポートサイトについて ===
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|尚、日本語サポートのアドレス jpsupport@secondlife.com は先日を持ちまして正式に閉鎖となり、現在はメールを送信いただくと自動返信にてサポート移転のメールが送信されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アカウントをお持ちでない方、あるいは公式サイトにログイン出来ない場合でもゲストとしてチケット送信がご利用頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|まず最初に、ボランティアの皆様の協力にてたくさんの翻訳された情報が公式サイトからご利用頂けるようになっています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらが公式サイトのヘルプのページとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jp.secondlife.com/support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらのサイトからＳＬのクイックスタートガイド、更に日本語質問コーナー([http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers/日本語の質問 Second Life Answers])などご利用頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[4:10] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんはー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問コーナーは経験豊かなＳＬユーザーの方々がセカンドライフに関しての様々な質問に対して価値ある情報を返答してたくさんの役立つ情報を交換出来る場となっています。特にセカンドライフを初めたばかりでセカンドライフでの活動、操作などに関して質問がある場合などは公式のサポートよりも質問に適している場と思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[4:11] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|日本語ナレッジベースもたくさんの情報が記載され、追加されていますので定期的に閲覧されるのもよいかと思います。リンクはこちらです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[4:11] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/日本語ナレッジベース

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|更にＳＬのウィキも日本語訳されているところが多くありますのでご参考下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Main_Page/ja

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次にイシュートラッカーについて簡単に説明します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|セカンドライフの機能に関しての提案、バグの報告などはサポートに提出頂くのでなく、イシュートラッカーを通して直接開発担当部向けとしてイシュートラッカーを通して投稿頂くようにお願いしております。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|イシュートラッカー自体は英語での操作となり、かなり面倒な点もありますが、現時点で確認されているバグに関してのコメント、あるいは改善に向けての提案に関する投票など様々な機能が含まれます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|イシュートラッカーに関してのウィキはこちらになります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Issue_tracker/ja

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|イシュートラッカーのサイトはちなみにこちらです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次に便利なサイトですが、現在英語でのみご利用頂けるのがグリッドステータスリポートのサイトとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://status.secondlifegrid.net/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらのサイトはローリングリスタートに関する告知、アップデート、更にグリッドに出ている障害などを告知、更にその改善状況に関してのアップデートを常時御知らせするサイトとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[4:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ログイン障害、テレポート障害、持ち物に関する障害など、たくさんの報告を受けグリッド全般での問題が確認された場合、あるいは最近ありました土地情報に関する障害など問題の状況とそのプログレスがアナウンスされます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[4:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|英語で分かりにくい分もあるとは思いますが、便利なサイトですので既に御存知の方も多いと思いますが、この場をお借りして御知らせさせて頂きました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[4:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|サポートの一環として通話料無料の電話番号も公開されていますが、日本語が話せるスタッフが居る時間が限られておりますので、その時間帯以外ですと英語での対応となってしまうと思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[4:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その時間帯については日本時間の夜が可能性が高いと思いますが変更もあるかと思います。正直なところ、まだに日本語対応の通話として宣伝するほどには至っていないと考えます。でも時間によっては日本語スタッフとお話された方も多くいらっしゃいます。
|}

=== チケットシステムによるサポート受付について ===
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[4:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|引き続いて公式サイトのヘルプから「チケットの送信」あるいは「新規チケット作成」に関してお話します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[4:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|「チケット送信」という言葉自体多少なじみにくいかと思いますが、以前のメールシステムと異なりフィルターにかかる事もなく、他の機能も踏まえて便利になった構成です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[4:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|英語では以前からご利用頂けるようになっていましたが、やっと日本語でも可能になりました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[4:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|公式サイトにマイアカウントログインし、次にヘルプをクリックするとサポートの項目が表示されます。その中に「新規チケットの作成」とありますのでそれをクリックして進んで下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[4:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|同様に「チケットの履歴」という項目がありますが、こちらを通して既に送信されたチケットに関してのステータスチェック、あるいはコメントを投稿して頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[4:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|重要な点としての御知らせですが、同件に関しては新規チケットを作成、送信せず、必ず既存のチケットにコメントするようにお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[4:19] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|送信されたチケットは日付にて振り分けられますので、新規チケットとして同件に関して送信しますと後回しになる事もあります。また重複を防ぎ内容を一括して管理する事を目的に、同件に関して新規チケットを送信された場合は、既存のチケットにコメント投稿下さいとお願いする上、新規チケットを閉じる処理が行われますので御知らせ致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[4:20] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|また反対ですが同様に、以前にうかがわれた件でも既存チケットと別件であればそれは新規チケット送信として手配をお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[4:20] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|念のための追記ですが、日本語サイトを通して日本語でチケットを送信された場合は、チケットの内容を全て日本語で記載頂いて結構です。複数のケースで詳細などを英語で頂いたものがありましたので、日本語サイトからの場合は日本語で結構です。英語を御希望の場合は、公式サイトの言語を英語に選択して同様の手続きが行えます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[4:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケット送信の画面にて件名を記入、次に別アカに問題が出ている場合はその名称を記入、ドロップダウンのメニューからチケットの種類をアカウントの問題、技術的な問題、御支払いとリンデンドル関連、土地とリージョン問題、Xstreet SLショッピングといずれかから選択するようになります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[4:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|例えばＳＩＭ譲渡の場合は、土地とリージョン問題、次のドロップダウンメニューからリージョン変更、次に譲渡として選択頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[4:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|もし間違った項目で送信されても詳細にて事情が詳しく分かりますと、適切な部の担当者に連絡が入りますので特に問題はないと思います。が、ドロップダウンメニューより項目を確認してなるべく適切な種類を選択するようにお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[4:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|利用規約に関する違反、他の住民の方からの嫌がらせについてはインワールドのヘルプのメニューより嫌がらせ報告をお願いしています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[4:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|が、もし所有されている土地にお隣の方のものがはみ出している場合は、公式サイトのヘルプからチケットの送信を頂いても結構です。この場合はかならずどこで何がはみ出しているか御知らせ下さい。どのようなオブジェクトか、また座標、あるいはＳＬＵＲＬを頂けますとこちらでの処理が早くなりますのでお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[4:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その他の嫌がらせ関連は通常通りに嫌がらせ報告にてお願い致します。その場合、なるべく可能でしたらスナップショットを添付頂けますと証拠の一部として考慮されますので、可能な場合はできるだけスナップショットを含んでお願いします。
|}

== 質疑応答 ==
{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[4:23] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|簡単ですが、これからは質問があれば受けさせて頂きます。マイクをクリックして順番にお名前が表示されると思いますのでお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[4:25] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|以前に質問を受けたのは英語でのチケット送信と日本語でのチケット送信とどちらの回答が早いかとのことですが、

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[4:26] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今のところ特に違いはないと思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[4:28] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|特に多いのは既存のチケットにコメント投稿でなく、新規チケットで回答される方が多くいらっしゃいますので、その点を気をつけてお願いします。この問題は日本語に限らず英語圏でもよくおこります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[4:28] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hillman Gearsさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[4:28] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問よろしいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[4:28] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[4:29] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|嫌がらせ報告も、日本語で送って大丈夫になったのでしょうか。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[4:29] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、可能です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[4:29] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。ありがとうございます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[4:30] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|他に居なければ、もうひとつ。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[4:30] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|そのときにスナップショットなどが可能でしたらなるべく添付して（チャットのスクリーンショットでも）お願いします。証拠の一部として考慮されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[4:30] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pay mentとNoPay Mentとで、対応の早さに違いはありますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[4:31] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットの場合です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[4:31] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|スナップショット、わかりました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[4:32] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sato Noelさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[4:32] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|基本的には英語サポートではありますが、現在の日本語サポートですと特にありません。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[4:32] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。ありがとうございます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[4:32] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次いいでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[4:33] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|追加で

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[4:33] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|私からは以上です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[4:33] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|コンシェルジュレベルの方などかの場合はなるべく優先して処理することはあります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[4:34] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[4:34] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sato Noelさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[4:34] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問させていただきます＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[4:34] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|例えばSIMが何かのアクシデントでOfflineになったとして、チケット送信して復活をお願いした場合、どれくらいの時間で対応してもらえるのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[4:36] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|通常その時間内に再起動がかかるためとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[4:37] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|グリッド全体に出えいる問題ですと多少時間がかかると思いますが、その点は先ほどのグリッドステータスのサイトにて状況がご確認いただけると思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[4:37] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|すぐのサポートを必要とする場合はやはりライブチャットになると思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[4:38] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ライブチャットは日本語対応でしたっけ？＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[4:38] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|英語です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[4:38] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ですよね＞＜

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[4:38] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットですと２４時間以内の対応と察します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[4:39] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[4:39] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Region down あるいは offline とその名称だけでも伝われば担当者にて調べられると思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[4:40] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|連絡される方がエステートマネージャー、あるいは所有者の方であるようにお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[4:41] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それらは全て、チケット送信でのことですよね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[4:42] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|送信主がエステートマネージャで、受け取る相手がリージョン担当者であると・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[4:42] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ライブチャットはプレミアム会員、あるいはSIM所有者となります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[4:42] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あっ、ライブチャットのことなんですね

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[4:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットの送信も同様に調査依頼やSIMに関してのことは所有者、あるいはエステーとマネージャーの方から依頼をお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[4:43] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[4:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SIMの住民の方から頂く場合は、そのSIMの所有者の方にご連絡いただく様にお願いしています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[4:43] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|了解しました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[4:43] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|もう一つあるのですが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[4:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[4:44] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|昔は平日の営業時間しか対応してもらえなかったようなのですが、今はどうなのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[4:44] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|コンシェルジュですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[4:44] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットのサポートです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[4:45] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|サポートは２４時間、週７日で動いています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[4:45] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Juniper Overlandさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[4:45] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|クリスマス休暇とかも関係ないのですね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[4:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ただ、経理関係など本社の対応が必要な場合は週末はお休みです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[4:46] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。私からは以上です。ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[4:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|一般サポートは祝日（どの国も含めて）でも対応してます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[4:48] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[4:48] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Juniper Overlandさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[4:48] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|宜しいでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[4:48] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[4:49] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hillmanさんの質問の嫌がらせ報告の件と同じなんですが・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[4:50] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|相手の方をミュートする、土地からBAN、あるいはSIMであればBANが可能ですが、

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[4:50] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BANしてもやってきます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[4:51] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|明らかに別アカでやってくる場合は、複数アカウントの悪用として処理も可能ですので、その都度嫌がらせ報告を出して、おそらく別アカの可能性があることを記載して下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[4:51] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|なにかBANをしても・・・それを解除というか　抜けられるアイテムがあるみたいで

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[4:51] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[4:52] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|複数アカウントの悪用は利用規約違反となりますので、こちらでの処理も変わってきます。ご面倒とは察しますが、その都度名前をリストして嫌がらせ報告を提出して下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[4:53] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その都度報告をすればいいのですね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[4:53] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。　いたちごっこですね・・・ｗ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[4:54] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、ただ反撃されたりしますとかえって住民間のトラブルとして見られる場合もありますので、その点も気をつけてお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[4:54] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|反撃はしません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[4:54] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|穏やかに暮らしたいだけですから・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[4:54] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートのSIMの場合は所有者、エステーとマネージャーの方にお願いして処理するようにお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[4:55] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|メインランドです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[4:55] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|メインランドの場合はリンデンラボ社の管理となりますので、お話の通り嫌がらせ報告でお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[4:56] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|他に質問よろしいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[4:56] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|いいですか

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[4:57] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[4:57] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクの終了

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[4:57] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|「チケットを切る」と言う言葉は日本では、あまり使われていないので、ホームページに

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat128|[4:57] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットって何と、よく聞かれますので

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[4:59] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|担当者に連絡しますが、もし提案があればまとめて送りますので、他にも何かありますか？（サイトに関して）

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[5:01] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|日本語のサイトに関しての提案を来週の金曜日のこの時間までに後ろにあるポストにノートカードとして入れて頂ければまとめて提案を送ります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[5:01] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|解りました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お手数ですがお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットの送信画面でのドロップダウンのメニューでもわかりにくい訳などあるかもしれませんので。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[5:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それでは、皆さんありがとうございました。尚、オフィスアワーを同じ時間帯に毎週金曜に設けておりますので宜しければお話し合いに起こし下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[5:03] ]]
| hanako Hammerer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|有り難うございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[5:03] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[5:03] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[5:03] ]]
| tonton Meili:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC33CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[5:04] ]]
| bleac Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chiyo さん、おつかれさまでしたーー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC33CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[5:04] ]]
| bleac Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[5:04] ]]
| Yumi Bonetto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れさまでした。ありがとうございます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[5:04] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|では、失礼します。
|}

User:Chiyo Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 11

2009-12-11T13:23:29Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Chiyo Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1|[4:...'

Transcript of [[User:Chiyo_Linden|Chiyo Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[4:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|早速始めますね。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat2|[4:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|かなり久しぶりの説明会となりましたが本日の説明会はサポート移転にかかわり、公式サイトからのサポート利用方法、チケット送信について、並びに現在ご利用可能なサポート情報についてお話します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[4:07] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|以前同様に説明会の内容は下記のリンクに記載されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat4|[4:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Chiyo_Linden

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[4:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|以前のトピックもNockさんのヘルプにより記載されています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat6|[4:08] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらで20分ほどの説明を終えた時点で質問回答の場を設けさせて頂きます。質問回答は時間のある限り行います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|尚、この質問時間は個人的な質問は避けるようにお願いします。個人的な質問は今回の課題となっているサポートをご利用になり、チケットの送信として御問合せをお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat8|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|尚、日本語サポートのアドレス jpsupport@secondlife.com は先日を持ちまして正式に閉鎖となり、現在はメールを送信いただくと自動返信にてサポート移転のメールが送信されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat9|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|アカウントをお持ちでない方、あるいは公式サイトにログイン出来ない場合でもゲストとしてチケット送信がご利用頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[4:09] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|まず最初に、ボランティアの皆様の協力にてたくさんの翻訳された情報が公式サイトからご利用頂けるようになっています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat11|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらが公式サイトのヘルプのページとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jp.secondlife.com/support

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat13|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらのサイトからＳＬのクイックスタートガイド、更に日本語質問コーナー(Second Life Answers)などご利用頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat14|[4:10] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こんばんはー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[4:10] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問コーナーは経験豊かなＳＬユーザーの方々がセカンドライフに関しての様々な質問に対して価値ある情報を返答してたくさんの役立つ情報を交換出来る場となっています。特にセカンドライフを初めたばかりでセカンドライフでの活動、操作などに関して質問がある場合などは公式のサポートよりも質問に適している場と思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[4:11] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|日本語ナレッジベースもたくさんの情報が記載され、追加されていますので定期的に閲覧されるのもよいかと思います。リンクはこちらです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[4:11] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/日本語ナレッジベース

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|更にＳＬのウィキも日本語訳されているところが多くありますのでご参考下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Main_Page/ja

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次にイシュートラッカーについて簡単に説明します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat21|[4:12] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|セカンドライフの機能に関しての提案、バグの報告などはサポートに提出頂くのでなく、イシュートラッカーを通して直接開発担当部向けとしてイシュートラッカーを通して投稿頂くようにお願いしております。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat22|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|イシュートラッカー自体は英語での操作となり、かなり面倒な点もありますが、現時点で確認されているバグに関してのコメント、あるいは改善に向けての提案に関する投票など様々な機能が含まれます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|イシュートラッカーに関してのウィキはこちらになります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Issue_tracker/ja

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[4:13] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|イシュートラッカーのサイトはちなみにこちらです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次に便利なサイトですが、現在英語でのみご利用頂けるのがグリッドステータスリポートのサイトとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://status.secondlifegrid.net/

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[4:14] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|こちらのサイトはローリングリスタートに関する告知、アップデート、更にグリッドに出ている障害などを告知、更にその改善状況に関してのアップデートを常時御知らせするサイトとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[4:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ログイン障害、テレポート障害、持ち物に関する障害など、たくさんの報告を受けグリッド全般での問題が確認された場合、あるいは最近ありました土地情報に関する障害など問題の状況とそのプログレスがアナウンスされます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[4:15] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|英語で分かりにくい分もあるとは思いますが、便利なサイトですので既に御存知の方も多いと思いますが、この場をお借りして御知らせさせて頂きました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat32|[4:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|サポートの一環として通話料無料の電話番号も公開されていますが、日本語が話せるスタッフが居る時間が限られておりますので、その時間帯以外ですと英語での対応となってしまうと思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[4:16] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その時間帯については日本時間の夜が可能性が高いと思いますが変更もあるかと思います。正直なところ、まだに日本語対応の通話として宣伝するほどには至っていないと考えます。でも時間によっては日本語スタッフとお話された方も多くいらっしゃいます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[4:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|引き続いて公式サイトのヘルプから「チケットの送信」あるいは「新規チケット作成」に関してお話します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[4:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|「チケット送信」という言葉自体多少なじみにくいかと思いますが、以前のメールシステムと異なりフィルターにかかる事もなく、他の機能も踏まえて便利になった構成です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat36|[4:17] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|英語では以前からご利用頂けるようになっていましたが、やっと日本語でも可能になりました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[4:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|公式サイトにマイアカウントログインし、次にヘルプをクリックするとサポートの項目が表示されます。その中に「新規チケットの作成」とありますのでそれをクリックして進んで下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat38|[4:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|同様に「チケットの履歴」という項目がありますが、こちらを通して既に送信されたチケットに関してのステータスチェック、あるいはコメントを投稿して頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[4:18] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|重要な点としての御知らせですが、同件に関しては新規チケットを作成、送信せず、必ず既存のチケットにコメントするようにお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[4:19] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|送信されたチケットは日付にて振り分けられますので、新規チケットとして同件に関して送信しますと後回しになる事もあります。また重複を防ぎ内容を一括して管理する事を目的に、同件に関して新規チケットを送信された場合は、既存のチケットにコメント投稿下さいとお願いする上、新規チケットを閉じる処理が行われますので御知らせ致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[4:20] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|また反対ですが同様に、以前にうかがわれた件でも既存チケットと別件であればそれは新規チケット送信として手配をお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat42|[4:20] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|念のための追記ですが、日本語サイトを通して日本語でチケットを送信された場合は、チケットの内容を全て日本語で記載頂いて結構です。複数のケースで詳細などを英語で頂いたものがありましたので、日本語サイトからの場合は日本語で結構です。英語を御希望の場合は、公式サイトの言語を英語に選択して同様の手続きが行えます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[4:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケット送信の画面にて件名を記入、次に別アカに問題が出ている場合はその名称を記入、ドロップダウンのメニューからチケットの種類をアカウントの問題、技術的な問題、御支払いとリンデンドル関連、土地とリージョン問題、Xstreet SLショッピングといずれかから選択するようになります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[4:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|例えばＳＩＭ譲渡の場合は、土地とリージョン問題、次のドロップダウンメニューからリージョン変更、次に譲渡として選択頂けます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[4:21] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|もし間違った項目で送信されても詳細にて事情が詳しく分かりますと、適切な部の担当者に連絡が入りますので特に問題はないと思います。が、ドロップダウンメニューより項目を確認してなるべく適切な種類を選択するようにお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat46|[4:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|利用規約に関する違反、他の住民の方からの嫌がらせについてはインワールドのヘルプのメニューより嫌がらせ報告をお願いしています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[4:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|が、もし所有されている土地にお隣の方のものがはみ出している場合は、公式サイトのヘルプからチケットの送信を頂いても結構です。この場合はかならずどこで何がはみ出しているか御知らせ下さい。どのようなオブジェクトか、また座標、あるいはＳＬＵＲＬを頂けますとこちらでの処理が早くなりますのでお願い致します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat48|[4:22] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その他の嫌がらせ関連は通常通りに嫌がらせ報告にてお願い致します。その場合、なるべく可能でしたらスナップショットを添付頂けますと証拠の一部として考慮されますので、可能な場合はできるだけスナップショットを含んでお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[4:23] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|簡単ですが、これからは質問があれば受けさせて頂きます。マイクをクリックして順番にお名前が表示されると思いますのでお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat50|[4:25] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|以前に質問を受けたのは英語でのチケット送信と日本語でのチケット送信とどちらの回答が早いかとのことですが、

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[4:26] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|今のところ特に違いはないと思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat52|[4:28] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|特に多いのは既存のチケットにコメント投稿でなく、新規チケットで回答される方が多くいらっしゃいますので、その点を気をつけてお願いします。この問題は日本語に限らず英語圏でもよくおこります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[4:28] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hillman Gearsさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[4:28] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問よろしいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[4:28] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat56|[4:29] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|嫌がらせ報告も、日本語で送って大丈夫になったのでしょうか。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat57|[4:29] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、可能です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat58|[4:29] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。ありがとうございます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[4:30] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|他に居なければ、もうひとつ。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[4:30] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|そのときにスナップショットなどが可能でしたらなるべく添付して（チャットのスクリーンショットでも）お願いします。証拠の一部として考慮されます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat61|[4:30] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pay mentとNoPay Mentとで、対応の早さに違いはありますか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[4:31] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットの場合です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[4:31] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|スナップショット、わかりました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[4:32] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sato Noelさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[4:32] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|基本的には英語サポートではありますが、現在の日本語サポートですと特にありません。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[4:32] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。ありがとうございます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[4:32] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次いいでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[4:33] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|追加で

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[4:33] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|私からは以上です

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[4:33] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|コンシェルジュレベルの方などかの場合はなるべく優先して処理することはあります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat71|[4:34] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[4:34] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sato Noelさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[4:34] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|質問させていただきます＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat74|[4:34] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|例えばSIMが何かのアクシデントでOfflineになったとして、チケット送信して復活をお願いした場合、どれくらいの時間で対応してもらえるのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat75|[4:36] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|通常その時間内に再起動がかかるためとなります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[4:37] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|グリッド全体に出えいる問題ですと多少時間がかかると思いますが、その点は先ほどのグリッドステータスのサイトにて状況がご確認いただけると思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[4:37] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|すぐのサポートを必要とする場合はやはりライブチャットになると思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[4:38] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ライブチャットは日本語対応でしたっけ？＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[4:38] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|英語です。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[4:38] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ですよね＞＜

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[4:38] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットですと２４時間以内の対応と察します。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat82|[4:39] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[4:39] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Region down あるいは offline とその名称だけでも伝われば担当者にて調べられると思います。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat84|[4:40] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|連絡される方がエステートマネージャー、あるいは所有者の方であるようにお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat85|[4:41] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それらは全て、チケット送信でのことですよね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat86|[4:42] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|送信主がエステートマネージャで、受け取る相手がリージョン担当者であると・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[4:42] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ライブチャットはプレミアム会員、あるいはSIM所有者となります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[4:42] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|あっ、ライブチャットのことなんですね

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[4:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットの送信も同様に調査依頼やSIMに関してのことは所有者、あるいはエステーとマネージャーの方から依頼をお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat90|[4:43] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat91|[4:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SIMの住民の方から頂く場合は、そのSIMの所有者の方にご連絡いただく様にお願いしています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat92|[4:43] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|了解しました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[4:43] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|もう一つあるのですが

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat94|[4:43] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[4:44] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|昔は平日の営業時間しか対応してもらえなかったようなのですが、今はどうなのでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[4:44] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|コンシェルジュですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[4:44] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットのサポートです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat98|[4:45] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|サポートは２４時間、週７日で動いています。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat99|[4:45] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Juniper Overlandさんを順番に追加

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat100|[4:45] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|クリスマス休暇とかも関係ないのですね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat101|[4:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ただ、経理関係など本社の対応が必要な場合は週末はお休みです。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0066;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat102|[4:46] ]]
| sato Noel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。私からは以上です。ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat103|[4:46] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|一般サポートは祝日（どの国も含めて）でも対応してます。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[4:48] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|次の方お願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC33;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[4:48] ]]
| Public Microphone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Juniper Overlandさんが次になります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[4:48] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|宜しいでしょうか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat107|[4:48] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[4:49] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hillmanさんの質問の嫌がらせ報告の件と同じなんですが・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat109|[4:50] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|相手の方をミュートする、土地からBAN、あるいはSIMであればBANが可能ですが、

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[4:50] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BANしてもやってきます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat111|[4:51] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|明らかに別アカでやってくる場合は、複数アカウントの悪用として処理も可能ですので、その都度嫌がらせ報告を出して、おそらく別アカの可能性があることを記載して下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[4:51] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|なにかBANをしても・・・それを解除というか　抜けられるアイテムがあるみたいで

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[4:51] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[4:52] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|複数アカウントの悪用は利用規約違反となりますので、こちらでの処理も変わってきます。ご面倒とは察しますが、その都度名前をリストして嫌がらせ報告を提出して下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[4:53] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|その都度報告をすればいいのですね？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat116|[4:53] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|わかりました。　いたちごっこですね・・・ｗ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[4:54] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、ただ反撃されたりしますとかえって住民間のトラブルとして見られる場合もありますので、その点も気をつけてお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat118|[4:54] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|反撃はしません

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat119|[4:54] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|穏やかに暮らしたいだけですから・・・

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[4:54] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|プライベートのSIMの場合は所有者、エステーとマネージャーの方にお願いして処理するようにお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat121|[4:55] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|メインランドです

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[4:55] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|メインランドの場合はリンデンラボ社の管理となりますので、お話の通り嫌がらせ報告でお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat123|[4:56] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|他に質問よろしいですか？

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat124|[4:56] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|いいですか

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[4:57] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|はい、どうぞ

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat126|[4:57] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|マイクの終了

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[4:57] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|「チケットを切る」と言う言葉は日本では、あまり使われていないので、ホームページに

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat128|[4:57] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットって何と、よく聞かれますので

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat129|[4:59] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|担当者に連絡しますが、もし提案があればまとめて送りますので、他にも何かありますか？（サイトに関して）

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat130|[5:01] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|日本語のサイトに関しての提案を来週の金曜日のこの時間までに後ろにあるポストにノートカードとして入れて頂ければまとめて提案を送ります。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993366;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat131|[5:01] ]]
| strike Nakamori:
| style="white-space:normal;"|解りました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat132|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お手数ですがお願いします。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[5:02] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|チケットの送信画面でのドロップダウンのメニューでもわかりにくい訳などあるかもしれませんので。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat134|[5:03] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|それでは、皆さんありがとうございました。尚、オフィスアワーを同じ時間帯に毎週金曜に設けておりますので宜しければお話し合いに起こし下さい。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660066;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat135|[5:03] ]]
| hanako Hammerer:
| style="white-space:normal;"|有り難うございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC0000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat136|[5:03] ]]
| Juniper Overland:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#990033;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat137|[5:03] ]]
| hillman Gears:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#336600;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[5:03] ]]
| tonton Meili:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ありがとうございました。

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC33CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[5:04] ]]
| bleac Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Chiyo さん、おつかれさまでしたーー

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#CC33CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat140|[5:04] ]]
| bleac Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|＾＾

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#663399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat141|[5:04] ]]
| Yumi Bonetto:
| style="white-space:normal;"|お疲れさまでした。ありがとうございます

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[5:04] ]]
| Chiyo Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|では、失礼します。
|}

User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 09

2009-12-09T12:12:36Z

Nock Forager: Created page with 'Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;" | [[#chat1...'

Transcript of [[User:Babbage_Linden|Babbage Linden]]'s office hours:

{|

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat1|[3:02] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello Babbage :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat2|[3:02] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat3|[3:02] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Bab

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat4|[3:02] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat5|[3:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi everyone

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat6|[3:02] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat7|[3:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let's give people a couple of minutes to turn up

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat8|[3:03] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|got a quick question then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat9|[3:04] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm trying to make a mechanical binary adder, and I need a decent way to make a physical pivot, any ideas?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat10|[3:04] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat11|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, it's 5 past, so let's start

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat12|[3:05] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|fake it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat13|[3:05] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, was thinking about that using collision and llSetRot()

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat14|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This week we got a simulator with C# support deployed internally for evaluation by Lindens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat15|[3:05] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is very exciting

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat16|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the feedback so far has been very positive

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat17|[3:06] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're currently setting up a test harness that can compile and run C# scripts at build time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat18|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so as we find bugs we can set up automated regression tests for them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat19|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've reached out to product to find out when/how we can open the prototype up for evaluation by residents

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat20|[3:07] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I'll let you know about that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat21|[3:08] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any ideas on how long before we can get a crack at it?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat22|[3:08] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|roughly

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat23|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat24|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is some more work we need to do on it first

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat25|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's pretty crashy at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat26|[3:08] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but the feedback we're getting from Linden's is helping find the worst bugs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat27|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we need to move the prototype over to Mono 2 and implement the sandbox for scripts first

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat28|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so a few months of work

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat29|[3:09] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I'd like to make the API available before we have simulators available for test

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat30|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you can look at the API and give feedback

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat31|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that should be sooner

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat32|[3:10] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is there any documentation that describes the feature set ... for example, will we be to have pre-built libraries of objects that we can reference, that kind of thing?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat33|[3:10] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is some very threadbare documentation that we've written for Lindens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat34|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|along with doxygen generated API docs

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat35|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to clean those up and make them available

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat36|[3:11] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe setup somekind webpage that allows free discussion about API? (Discussion forum in blog.secondlife.com - is crappy...)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat37|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I need to check with product first

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat38|[3:11] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|any timelines for document release? roughly?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat39|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, I'll put them on the public wiki probably

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat40|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully in the next few weeks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat41|[3:11] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but again, it depends on product

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat42|[3:12] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nice

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat43|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we've also been firming up our plans for efficient scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat44|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the minimum feature set will be llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsNoDelay

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat45|[3:12] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llGetLinkPrimitiveParams

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat46|[3:12] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat47|[3:13] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yay!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat48|[3:13] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|finally!!

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat49|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and a PRIM_TEXT constant for setting text on a linked prim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat50|[3:13] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this year? ㋡

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat51|[3:13] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|About llSPP-ND.... Will the rotations also be... hmmm... nonsensical?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat52|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|early next year hopefully

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat53|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|along with script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat54|[3:13] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|great

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat55|[3:13] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kelly wrote a hair resize script with the new functions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat56|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it uses 16K on LSL instead of 1664K

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat57|[3:14] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat58|[3:14] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|<3

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat59|[3:14] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|=^_^=

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat60|[3:14] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a tad more efficient then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat61|[3:14] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat62|[3:14] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for a 103 prim resizable hairdo

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat63|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, a couple of orders of magnitude more memory efficient

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat64|[3:15] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just a few

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat65|[3:15] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and easier to develop too as you only have to use 1 script, instead of managing lots of scripts sprinkled through the linkset

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat66|[3:16] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That might cut down on "I can't teleport!" JIRA issues too.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat67|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hopefully

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat68|[3:16] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, so how do you get content creators with 50 or 100 hair products to go back and redo the scripts in all their items?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat69|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you introduce script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat70|[3:16] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know it's an easy fix, but you're talking about them deleting hundreds of scripts from perhaps hundreds of items

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat71|[3:16] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which limit the size of attached scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat72|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and create a market ;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat73|[3:17] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, also, is there any consideration for some sort of script cost number simlar to ARC?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat74|[3:17] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that HUDs are also big user of scripts - like radars and other things like that - any plans to add client side scripting?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat75|[3:17] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|similar*

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat76|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|johan, we're introducing script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat77|[3:17] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze, yes, there are plans, but they are a long way off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat78|[3:18] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, I guess taht will force the issue.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat79|[3:18] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|HUDs will benefit from the efficient scripts changes too

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat80|[3:18] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|SOmeone passed a game HUD to me that had well over 200 scripts in it.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat81|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i've also continued to track down the problem with sim freezes on script rez

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat82|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it looks like a stall in the mono runtime

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat83|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I'm now working with the mono developers to track it down

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat84|[3:19] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will it be better to recompile all scripts in the region to LSL meanwhile?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat85|[3:19] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we're planning to work on multithreading the rez/derez process next year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat86|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will hide the effects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat87|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gunter, it's only an issue for mobile scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat88|[3:20] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah ok

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat89|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you have static scripts, you're better off using mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat90|[3:20] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, that's what I've been up to, anything you'd like to talk about?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat91|[3:21] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so this terrible lag will stay a while longer?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat92|[3:21] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do you forsee needing a new simulator statistic related to multithreaded rez/derez?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat93|[3:21] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|mono rezzing lag is not the only cause of lag

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat94|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are many

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat95|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but we have plans to fix most of them

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat96|[3:22] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to know more details in the progress of the freeze sim bug, as it affects us all.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat97|[3:22] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, I have a callgrind profile of the simulator exhibiting the bug

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat98|[3:23] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i need to get that to the mono developers so they can see what the problem is

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat99|[3:23] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is that stall getting longer as simulator uptime increases?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat100|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've tracked down the problem to to System.Reflection.Assembly::Load(byte[])

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat101|[3:24] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes ardy, it looks like this on my sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat102|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the code that implements that is inside the mono runtime

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat103|[3:24] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|must restart 4 times a day

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat104|[3:24] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was seeing 203 calls to that function taking 4s

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat105|[3:25] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://go-mono.com/forums/#nabble-td26594897

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat106|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I had a single linked object with ~200 default scripts compiled to (different) mono scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat107|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and when I rez it the sim would freeze for 4s

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat108|[3:25] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I'm reasonably sure this is the problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat109|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I could repro it consistently with a newly started sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat110|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so I don't think it's a problem that gets worse over time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat111|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that lag may be due to simulator memory bloat

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat112|[3:26] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we are testing the TCMalloc sims on aditi at the moment

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat113|[3:27] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when we get TCMalloc in to production, we will be in a better place to analyse memory use over time in production

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat114|[3:28] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could it be possible to 'force' an automatic restart of the sim, when it detects that the memory is too laggy and too much, instead to wait a manual restart?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat115|[3:28] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Andrew said a new employee with alot of Havok experience has SL running on Havok 7.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat116|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cerditi, yes you could

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat117|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it probably wouldn't be a good idea

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat118|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as you don't want it restarting in the middle of an event

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat119|[3:29] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it would be better if simulators could keep running indefinitely#

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat120|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, falcon linden has just started in core and has a lot of havok experience

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat121|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i didn't know he had sl working with havok 7 though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat122|[3:30] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|very cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat123|[3:30] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I heard he had it running under windows, not Linux yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat124|[3:30] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, if the event is lagging everybody to a time dialtion lesser than 1.25 and with sim freezes of 30 seconds evert 2 minutes, i think it would be the only solution

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat125|[3:30] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|0.25, i mean

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat126|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cerdita, yes, but i'd like to know why the sim is lagging and fix it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat127|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather than just let performance degrade and restart

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat128|[3:31] ]]
| colspan="2"|Morgaine Dinova waves quietly to all

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat129|[3:31] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|don't fret: we are looking at it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat130|[3:32] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and have more engineer time assigned to lag and freezes next year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat131|[3:32] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i was thinking on that as a temporal solution until you can finish the fix. :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat132|[3:33] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's fairly easy to get LL to reboot a sim that needs it bad enough.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat133|[3:34] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Support is good at restarting mainland regions when I ask them to do so. I am sure they look it over first to make sure it needs to be restarted.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat134|[3:34] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|limitate attached scripts will help, ppl arrive on my sim with 300 scripts in hair and my sim stops for 20 seconds

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat135|[3:35] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We got them to restart an estate sim once too.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat136|[3:35] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, gunter, that sounds like the mono rez sim freeze that I'm looking at

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat137|[3:35] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and on my sim every 2 minutes soneone arrive

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat138|[3:35] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|L ㋡ L

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat139|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It's strange as we tested Mono script rezzing when we were developing Mono and it worked fine with no pauses

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat140|[3:36] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything we can do meanwhile?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat141|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we haven't made many changes to that code

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat142|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we haven't upgraded Mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat143|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, I don't know what's changed to cause the problem

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat144|[3:36] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|possibly some interaction between the runtime and the os

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat145|[3:36] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Did the underlying OS get changed?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat146|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we deploy security patches

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat147|[3:37] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the simulator hosts have gone from running debian sarge to debian etch since we shipped mono

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat148|[3:38] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, I'll be working with the mono engineers this week to look in to it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat149|[3:38] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How are memory limitis coming together? When we can see script memory usage? :P

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat150|[3:38] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe those security patches broke the non-blocking mode of something.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat151|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|script limits just needs the UI developing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat152|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which is going to happen in the next couple of weeks

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat153|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have all the analysis we need doing to determine the limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat154|[3:39] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but need to discuss them internally

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat155|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to try to find the sweet spot between improving sim performance and inconviniencing heavy script users

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat156|[3:40] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|once that's done Jack is going to take the job of communicating the limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat157|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the UI should be available in the next major version of the viewer

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat158|[3:41] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will be available next year

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat159|[3:41] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Will we also have Top Scripts on parcel?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat160|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kaluura, the UI will include a top scripts style list of scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat161|[3:42] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat162|[3:42] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Per parcel?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat163|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that will include functionality for finding and returning scripted objects

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat164|[3:42] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so everyone will be able to find and clean up the scripts they don't need

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat165|[3:43] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|before we start enforcing limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat166|[3:43] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Could someone 'return' an attachment?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat167|[3:43] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But Kaluura asked whether "per parcel" or not.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat168|[3:43] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think 'returning' an attachment is a feature which only Lindens should be allowed to use.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat169|[3:44] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's like pulling some skirt off from a person IRL

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat170|[3:44] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xD

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat171|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the scripts you can see depend on who you are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat172|[3:44] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but disable special attached script would be fin

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat173|[3:44] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, I dont see that happening

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat174|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|everyone can see their attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat175|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no one else can see or return your attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat176|[3:44] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you are a parcel owner you can see the scripted objects in your parcels in the region

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat177|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you are a region owner you see all scripted objects in all parcels

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat178|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you are an estate owner or manageryou also see all scripted objects in all parcels

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat179|[3:45] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so estate managers can help manage the parcels they rent out

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat180|[3:46] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|would it be possible to se limitations for avatar attachment usage who is entering to region/parcel? like if your attachments are using more than 1MB - you are not allowed to enter?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat181|[3:46] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze, we're planning to set an SL wide limit on attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat182|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so you don't get stuck unable to TP

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat183|[3:47] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or have some of your avatar attachments disabled when you TP somewhere

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat184|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in the future we'd like region owners to be able to trade off number of avatars vs parcel script limits vs physics, but we're not there yet

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat185|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i don't want to have variable limits for attachments though

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat186|[3:48] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sims are not fixed in capability nor capacity, they improve as technology improves. Are these limits going to be raised correspondingly with time?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat187|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it would be confusing and frustrating for newbies

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat188|[3:48] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, there's no reason they shouldn't be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat189|[3:48] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat190|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as long as we always raise limits, it shouldn't cause any problems

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat191|[3:49] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes, but nerwbies attach all they can find and use 10% od script time on a sim then

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat192|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|gunter, right so we want to set the avatar script limit to something "reasonable"

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat193|[3:49] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that allows sensible use

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat194|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but not 100s of un needed scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat195|[3:50] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i think that will help a lot

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat196|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd like to know what you think reasonable usage would be

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat197|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most of the avatars I've seen with 100s of scripts just have them for resizing

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat198|[3:50] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|are there any legitimate uses for more than 100 attached scripts?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat199|[3:50] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#996666;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat200|[3:50] ]]
| Kaluura Boa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat201|[3:50] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or gangsta neacklages with 100 bling scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993333;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat202|[3:51] ]]
| Melchizedek Blauvelt:
| style="white-space:normal;"|disabled folks maybe

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat203|[3:51] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: are you going to make it easy for your devs to test raised limits, or are the limits going to be compiled in? The latter would act as a disincentive for LL to keep the limits moving upwards as technology improves.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat204|[3:51] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I dont think so, no

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat205|[3:51] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, plus hair resizers should code so the scripts can be removed once the hair is sized.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat206|[3:51] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, the limits will be controlled by settings

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat207|[3:51] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are some complex attachments nedded for roleplaying, and combat. but i dont know if they need 100 scripts or less.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat208|[3:51] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cool

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat209|[3:51] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|make the item copy/no trans, and then keep the original with the scripts, but when worn, after sizing, delete all the scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat210|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|johan, efficient scripts should make resizers just require a single script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat211|[3:52] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|most have that Johan, but the ppl dont know that and dont delete the script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat212|[3:52] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, after that hopefully we won't need to allow 100s of attached scripts

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat213|[3:52] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ah.... that is another interesting problem - what is going to happen those items that have scripts over limit and are no mod...

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat214|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Imaze, there is going to be a long period where limits will be visible, but not enforced

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat215|[3:53] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Lindens will make a refund ... of course.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat216|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people will be able to see that they're over the limit and remove scripts until they are under the limit

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat217|[3:53] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that means you will have to walk with a bald

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat218|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jack is going to be communicating this to people

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat219|[3:53] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when the limits are enforced, you will end up with objects being returned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat220|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but hopefully everyone will have enough time to manage their attachments before that happens

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat221|[3:54] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about sales of objects, say via XStreetSL or in an in-game store where somebody doesn't actually see the object before it is delivered to them?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat222|[3:54] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will there be a nice error message, that tell me which attachment I just got returned

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat223|[3:54] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*s

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat224|[3:54] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i wouldn't buy any object that didn't list its prim count and script usage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat225|[3:54] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Jack is going to have a lot of fun explaining how "Your costly hair whose creator is no longer available is now broken" fits with the "No breaking content" policy.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat226|[3:55] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Xstreet will need another field for it next to prim count

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat227|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#00CC66;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat228|[3:55] ]]
| Aimee Trescothick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to encourage people to list it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat229|[3:55] ]]
| colspan="2"|Cerdita Piek giggles at Morgaine

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#33CCCC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat230|[3:55] ]]
| SirMartinRJ Lupindo:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is not too easy to count the scripts inside a linked object, is it

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat231|[3:55] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that might be okay for you and me, but there are lots of SL users that don't "get it" they don't know what prim counts and script usesage are

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat232|[3:55] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, content creators (smart ones) will communicate the efficiency of their scripted items

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat233|[3:55] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Morgaine, it might be usable at some point in the future when limits are raised

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat234|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat235|[3:56] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|good point Bab

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat236|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but, I would hope that most content creators would provide efficient versions of items to purchasers

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat237|[3:56] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that work within the script limits

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat238|[3:56] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm on my 3rd generation scripts for my clocks, working on a 4th

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat239|[3:56] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but most of them use old laggy scripts bcs dont know how to script

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat240|[3:57] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was a newbie coder when I started, well, new to LSL, and made the usual newbie coding mistakes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat241|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, so Lindens and content creators need to communicate that there are more efficient ways of doing things

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat242|[3:57] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but I've continued to improve them, and still continue.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat243|[3:57] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and that some items can be replaced with more efficient versions

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat244|[3:58] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for example put a bling script with ON/OFF llListen into a neckalge with 100 bling prims

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat245|[3:58] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right, that's because up to this point, resources have been free and limitless

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat246|[3:58] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|all objects will be rezzable in to sandboxes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat247|[3:59] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so people either outright abuse, or just dont consider efficiency

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat248|[3:59] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hehehe... "Crash boxes". :-)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat249|[3:59] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: if your analysis shows that the number of existing attachments caught by the new limits is sufficiently small, I would advise the limits being applied differently to old scripts and new scripts. Breaking old paid+closed content is in a different category to preventing new content being badly written.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat250|[3:59] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I avoid public sandboxes

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat251|[3:59] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like it's the plague

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat252|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|morgaine, yes, it's worth considering

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat253|[4:00] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|to a point, yeah, but you have to draw the line in the sand at some point.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat254|[4:00] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat255|[4:01] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|computers (on both ends) have limitations

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat256|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|another thing to consider is whether to return scripts or attachments

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat257|[4:01] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|turn off bling or return bling?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat258|[4:01] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|or perhaps just disable them?

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#999933;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat259|[4:01] ]]
| Morgaine Dinova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Babbage: if you add the notion of two categories old and new, you can always elide it later if it proves unworkable. If you don't add it, it'll never happen.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat260|[4:02] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rather than return, just selectively disable an object that is too much of a resource hog.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat261|[4:02] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just turn them off

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat262|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|technically tracking old and new content is unfortunately hard

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat263|[4:02] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|disabled scripts still take up memory, so that doesn't help

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat264|[4:03] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't see how "disabling" an attachment magically removes the memory requirements of hosting its scripts.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat265|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anyway, it's 4, so I should go

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat266|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the discussion

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat267|[4:03] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the time Bab.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#660000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat268|[4:03] ]]
| Becky Pippen:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks, Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993300;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat269|[4:03] ]]
| Ardy Lay:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you Babbage.

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat270|[4:03] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe somthing like a ban list for bad scripts we dont want to have on a sim

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat271|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lots of good points that I will bring up with Jack

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#669900;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat272|[4:03] ]]
| Imaze Rhiano:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks babbie

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat273|[4:03] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but isn't the problem with the scripts that they are CPU hogs not memory hogs? Even 200 bling scripts aren't going to use 64K a piece

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#993333;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat274|[4:03] ]]
| Melchizedek Blauvelt:
| style="white-space:normal;"|much appreciated Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat275|[4:03] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you all next week hopefully

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#0000CC;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat276|[4:03] ]]
| Cerdita Piek:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Babbage. Take care :)

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat277|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will be my last office hour of 2009

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat278|[4:04] ]]
| Gunter Vandyke:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#333399;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat279|[4:04] ]]
| Pirka Quintessa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks babbage

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat280|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as I'm on vacation after that

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000000;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat281|[4:04] ]]
| Babbage Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|see you next time

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#666699;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat282|[4:04] ]]
| Johan Laurasia:
| style="white-space:normal;"|c ya

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#000099;background-color:#FCFCFC;"
| [[#chat283|[4:04] ]]
| QUTAdmin Queler:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh

|- style="vertical-align:top;color:#66CCCC;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [[#chat284|[4:04] ]]
| Nock Forager:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seeya.
|}