View source for Pyogp/Chat Logs/Daily Meeting/18 Aug 2008

* [9:29] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Hey Lock
* [9:29] [[User:Multi Gadget|Multi Gadget]]:  v2.0.3b by Timeless Prototype, '/44 info'
* [9:31] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Hi
* [9:31] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  hi everyone
* [9:31] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  is lagged
* [9:31] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  sorry, didn't have chat open :P
* [9:32] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  hola
* [9:32] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  hi enus
* [9:32] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  hola enus
* [9:32] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  so [http://syntronik.de] is now defined as finished
* [9:33] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  as finished as it can be that is taking into account that I am building on a protocol which can change any day ;-)
* [9:33] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Hi Infinity
* [9:33] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  lol
* [9:33] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  i came in right as tao said "can change any day"
* [9:33] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  which
* [9:33] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  sadly is the truth
* [9:33] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  is now?
* [9:33] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  though
* [9:34] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  that's ok, I put the proof of concept label on it ;-)
* [9:34] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  we're thinking that draft 3 will be fairly stable
* [9:34] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  that's even worse than change any day, it's more like "maybe does not work at all"
* [9:34] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  yippie
* [9:34] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  or not...
* [9:35] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  so shall we run around the group?
* [9:35] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  so this domain is as functional as the current aditi AD is?
* [9:35] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  suer
* [9:35] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  i'll go. i sent an email to the list, i think i owe another
* [9:35] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  /dt 1 white meetin'
* [9:35] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  and need to read and respond as needed to the list
* [9:35] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  that's all for me
* [9:36] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Sai: should be which means it logs you in and transfers the name to the region
* [9:36] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but it does not do TP right now I think
* [9:36] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I've been working on the message refactor
* [9:36] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  right... that's what i've seen
* [9:36] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  looking at Tao's code, and my own (which is in a branch)
* [9:36] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  login works fine, tp is still an issue
* [9:36] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  ah, OK, so you get presence as in you can see the grid and avies on the grid can see you?
* [9:36] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  and I'm writing up an official report/form of the problems teh refactor intends to solve
* [9:37] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  very cool, Locklainn
* [9:37] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  ty locklainn
* [9:37] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Lock, should suupporting legacy login and TP part of that design goal or not?
* [9:37] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Sai: I think others can see me but I never tested this ;-)
* [9:37] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  hmm
* [9:37] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  good question
* [9:37] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I think its a good goal
* [9:37] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  legacy login is not part of the refactor at all is it?
* [9:37] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  isn't legacy more the thing which comes before any UDP happens?
* [9:37] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  not currently enus
* [9:38] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea, good point tao
* [9:38] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  basically sending the XML-RPC login request and getting sim etc from that?
* [9:38] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  the refactor is a separate body of work imo
* [9:38] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  the message refactor is really for udp communication
* [9:38] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  and can be a separate efforty
* [9:38] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  efoort*
* [9:38] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  right
* [9:38] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I think we can tackle legacy separatly then
* [9:38] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  right though there is no AD in the structure.
* [9:38] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  :P
* [9:38] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  if its just for the messaging system, shouldn't make any difference
* [9:38] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  right
* [9:38] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  at least for now
* [9:39] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  if messaging changes in OGP then we maybe need to think about how to support it
* [9:39] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  of course
* [9:39] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I'm not sure how it would change that would break our system
* [9:39] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  maybe flags and such?
* [9:39] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  EQG vs rhttp, but EQG of some kind will be the fallback anyway
* [9:39] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  ye
* [9:39] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea*
* [9:39] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  no SuperIM messages ;-)
* [9:39] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  or what it was called
* [9:40] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Improved..
* [9:40] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  although it does not sound like improved
* [9:40] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  ImprovedInstantMessage
* [9:40] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I wonder what the non-improved version looked like then ;-)
* [9:40] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  scary thought
* [9:40] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but anyway, maybe let's go on
* [9:40] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yep
* [9:40] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage
* [9:40] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  Shrek's turn?
* [9:41] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  huh?
* [9:41] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  you are shrek
* [9:41] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  :)
* [9:41] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  never seen shrek?
* [9:41] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I am not that fat ;-)
* [9:41] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  haha
* [9:41] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  and wasn't he green?
* [9:41] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  nor that green
* [9:42] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  notes that Locklainn is color blind
* [9:42] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  hmm
* [9:42] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  anyway, I was working on experimenting with networking stuff at the weekend
* [9:42] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  seems green to me
* [9:42] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  it' okay... i can't see the color purple
* [9:42] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  oh, yea, guess he is yellow
* [9:42] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  looks green from over here, anyway
* [9:42] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  adjust teh tint on your monitor?
* [9:42] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  so I was first trying to get into networking at all as I hardly did that the last couple of years ;-)
* [9:43] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  and looked then into twisted and how you would do things with twisted compared to eventlet and a threaded approach
* [9:43] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  which resultet in long discussions with Locklainn in which we hopefully now are heading to a good solution
* [9:43] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  aweosme
* [9:43] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  freaky... but definitely interesting
* [9:43] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  awesome*
* [9:43] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  to let the user decide which system to use
* [9:43] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  confusing to moi, but I made a transcript
* [9:43] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I also sent some emails to the list regarding how to do logging and about the dev process
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  we hope to explain this in some docs in more detail
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  with examples
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I guess we are doing that at least ;-)
* [9:44] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  nice
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  as for logging I wanted to implement some example in e.g. the caps modules
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  module
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  as I also would need better logging for that agent domain
* [9:44] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I'm curious,
* [9:44] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  why is there a logger per module?
* [9:44] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  hard to find out now what happened when you only see a 500 in the access log
* [9:44] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  a reminder to all: put the category:pyogp_kitchen_sink in any page that way we can find it no matter what part of the hierarchy its in
* [9:44] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  you can't set it then to a level
* [9:44] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  for all logging
* [9:45] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  it's per module and level
* [9:45] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  if you listen to "pyogp" and error you only get all errors and critical messages for the whole lib
* [9:45] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  you might set up a different logger for pyogp.lib.base.message to only get log statements from the message system
* [9:45] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so it works for all the loggers in every module?
* [9:46] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  yes, if you remove parts from the path you get more stuff
* [9:46] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  it just collects it
* [9:46] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  a path is splitted by .
* [9:46] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I see
* [9:46] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  ok
* [9:46] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I think that's quite nice
* [9:46] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  so I hope to do an example soon. I would suggest though not to do such smaller changes in a branch
* [9:47] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  it's still easy to remove those statements again anyway and I won't do the whole lib in one go
* [9:47] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  this removes the burden of merging then which is not really fun with svn
* [9:47] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  hmm
* [9:47] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I don't know about that
* [9:47] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  it may be small
* [9:47] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  and I will take care that all the tests still run of course
* [9:47] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  but a single line could break stuff
* [9:48] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  that's why I take care that the tests run
* [9:48] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  just saying for future reasons
* [9:48] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I know logging won't
* [9:48] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I guess this is a question of the development process
* [9:48] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  for me
* [9:48] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  yep, we maybe should discuss this further outside this meeting
* [9:49] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I also would like some feedback on exceptions btw so I can put them in place :)
* [9:49] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea,
* [9:49] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  maybe this can be done with logging in one go with caps as an example
* [9:49] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  enus, inf, don't we have some docs being made up for exceptions?
* [9:49] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  yup
* [9:49] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  i've paid no attention to that yet myseld
* [9:49] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  any idea when they will be ready?
* [9:49] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  what we're doing is documenting the "exception" and "error" responses from each message
* [9:50] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  right
* [9:50] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  cool
* [9:50] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  internally... i can get you something that's vaguely stable
* [9:50] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  but it needs another round of review before publishing
* [9:50] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  publicly
* [9:50] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so, Tao, probably have to wait for this
* [9:50] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  well, I at least should be able to catch connection errors and such
* [9:50] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea
* [9:50] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  but
* [9:50] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  you can always add more exceptions for more detailed errors
* [9:51] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  things that are stable:
* [9:51] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  * we're definitely moving from 302 to 200
* [9:51] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  well, they may change too
* [9:51] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  for both auth failures and auth successes
* [9:51] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  like that :)
* [9:51] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  and
* [9:51] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  i think we're removing legacy login from the specification
* [9:51] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  that doesn't reflect the exception though, it might always be UserNothAuthorized or so
* [9:51] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  and
* [9:52] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  just when it's raised is different
* [9:52] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  well
* [9:52] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  you acn handle it how you like
* [9:52] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  but
* [9:52] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  if you do not provide the correct credentials
* [9:52] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  you'll get a distinct message in return
* [9:52] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  this can be put into the exception then
* [9:52] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  for things like maintenance
* [9:53] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  and whether or not the authentication failure was due to improper login options, etc
* [9:53] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  we need to discuss how much detail we want or need to model in exceptions anyway
* [9:53] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  the place_avatar "family" of calls are also mostly stable
* [9:53] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but I would be in favor of replacing those string exceptions or prints we have already with some class based exception
* [9:53] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  well, Tao, I don't think that is up to us, no?
* [9:53] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  isn't that up to OGP spec?
* [9:54] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  but Tess and Leyla have been working mostly with them
* [9:54] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  no no... i think he's thinking of how the exceptions are reported in PyOGP
* [9:54] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  ohh ok
* [9:54] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Locklainn: how we implement it is up to us I think. The difference is if we have one special exception for every detail or if we put e.g. some reason inside the exception
* [9:54] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  yep
* [9:54] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  oh ok
* [9:54] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I gotcha
* [9:54] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  so yer talking about having a generic exception
* [9:54] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  and if we have 10 detailed exceptions they probably derive from one more generic one
* [9:54] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so same exception, but presented differntly
* [9:54] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  gotcha
* [9:55] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  yup
* [9:55] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  some exception tree,
* [9:55] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  what i was thinking too
* [9:55] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  cool
* [9:55] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  like already started in exc.py
* [9:55] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  so each subcomponent would get it's own super-exception from which it then can derive further exception classes
* [9:55] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  e.g. MessageError to NotAValidBlockError
* [9:56] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  or maybe InvalidBlockError ;-)
* [9:56] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  BlockTooFunkyException and such
* [9:56] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  so we also have internal ones actually
* [9:56] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  right... and service consumers can choose to catch the superclass or the more detailed subclasses
* [9:56] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so, just pointing out that I'll be leaving in a week, and I won't be here tomorrow and Wed
* [9:56] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  yep
* [9:56] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so I am hoping to get finished this messaging refactoring
* [9:56] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  krikey
* [9:56] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  and hopefully documenting it
* [9:57] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so, I hope we can put a lot of work into this
* [9:57] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  and bust it out so it can be done before I leave
* [9:57] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  quietly wipes a tear
* [9:57] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  it would be very good indeed to document how this whole thing works, also from a protocol level, not only from implementation
* [9:57] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  yeah, that will be a loss
* [9:57] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  10am, next meeting time
* [9:57] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  maybe I'm missing it again, isn't that what the OGP spec is?
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  eek.
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  it's getting
* [9:58] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but the details about acks and such...
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  late
* [9:58] [[User:Enus Linden|Enus Linden]]:  see yas on irc
* [9:58] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  oh ok
* [9:58] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  cya enus
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  lemme just say... i'm working on OGP spec
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  documenting
* [9:58] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  basically what a circuit does
* [9:58] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  making transcript...
* [9:58] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  maybe this can then be part of the OGP spec :)
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  cool
* [9:58] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  is there a wiki for ur work infinity?
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  not really
* [9:58] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  but
* [9:59] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so documenting in doc file or something?
* [9:59] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  wait
* [9:59] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  it's more in XML ;-)
* [9:59] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  haha
* [9:59] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  she thinks in XML
* [9:59] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  we're asking people to put comments on the documentation page for teh existing spec
* [9:59] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  well
* [9:59] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  i think in objects
* [9:59] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  XML is just the "common tongue" of middle-grid
* [10:00] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I guess for now it would be good to have it in any form
* [10:00] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  :)
* [10:00] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  ok,
* [10:00] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so would it be a bad idea for us to put this stuff on the Pyogp page?
* [10:00] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  and if you don't like it, i'll write it in Quenya or Esperanto
* [10:00] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Quenya?
* [10:00] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  probably they want to mangle it through the speclanguage machine anyway
* [10:00] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  or Sindarin
* [10:00] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  yup
* [10:00] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  has a 50-100-year-old-book on Esperanto
* [10:00] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Ah, evlish
* [10:01] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  elvish
* [10:01] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  a lot of us are all SGML types
* [10:01] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  yup
* [10:01] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Locklainn, there should be some pages about messages and such already on the wiki
* [10:01] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  maybe put it there somewhere
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  that's what I'm asking
* [10:01] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  elvish SGML + DSSSL freaks
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  seems the messaging stuff on wiki isn't very doced
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  so shoudl we put this al there?
* [10:01] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  so it's also useful for the other folks out there
* [10:01] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  there's a page lock wrote on notes, or maybe it was infinity? I think I put it under kitchensink
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea,
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  notes has message format
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  currently
* [10:01] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  and I also have started a protocol page
* [10:02] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  that lists exceptions and the like
* [10:02] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  maybe it would even be good for LL employees to look at ;-)
* [10:02] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  maybe should go on a non-pyogp page
* [10:02] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  is it under kitchensink? ;-)
* [10:02] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  lemme find
* [10:02] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  nothing wrong with pyogp kitchensink referring to non pyogp pages
* [10:02] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pyogp/Client_Lib/Protocols_Explained]
* [10:02] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  you can also put links onto some messagesystem project page under pyogp
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  haha
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  this is what I'm asking
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  where should this stuff be?
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  pyogp page
* [10:03] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  which point outwards
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  general messaging page
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I know they CAN go in tehse places
* [10:03] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  but where SHOULD they go
* [10:03] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  yup
* [10:03] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  if it's in general about the protocol put it somewhere close to other related pages outside pyogp
* [10:03] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  and link from pyogp to it
* [10:03] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I think that way people can find it best
* [10:03] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  that page is good... we needed more of an overview for teh spec
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  we have it on our to-do list, but its pretty far down
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  also
* [10:04] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  the page I just linked inf?
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  yup
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  but
* [10:04] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  reminds me that I wanted to start my book "OGP explained"
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  auth is going to be changing a bunch
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  lol
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  and
* [10:04] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  yea,. that hasn't been updated in months
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  everything is going to be specified in terms of LLIDL
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  so
* [10:04] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  wah. Now I have to find a new title
* [10:04] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  OGP for Dummies?
* [10:04] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  headers goes away
* [10:04] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  OGP in a nutshell
* [10:05] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  OGP for the Cmpleat Idiot
* [10:05] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  and at the protocol level, you always get a 200
* [10:05] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  OGP Hacks :)
* [10:05] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  OGP for fun and profit?
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  :)
* [10:05] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  OGP for the insane
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  well
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  eitheer way,
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  I'm going to put it on that page then
* [10:05] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  "I implemented OGP and all i got was this bear?"
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  and you guys can move it once I'm good and dead at Linden
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  :)
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  hsahaaha
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  nice
* [10:05] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  lol
* [10:05] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  but they love it
* [10:05] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  wipes another tear
* [10:05] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I didn't even get a bear ;-)
* [10:06] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  its like teh gold medal that people work years to get
* [10:06] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  its just virtual :)
* [10:06] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but my OGP avi cannot store the bear anyway ;-)
* [10:06] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  okay
* [10:06] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  gotta
* [10:06] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  run
* [10:06] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  cya Infinity!
* [10:06] [[User:Infinity Linden|Infinity Linden]]:  cheers
* [10:06] [[User:Locklainn Linden|Locklainn Linden]]:  ok, me too, cya everyone
* [10:06] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  me too ;-)
* [10:06] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  cya all!
* [10:07] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  K posting transcript


[[Category: Grid Interoperability Chat Logs]]
[[Category: AW Groupies Transcripts]]
[[Category: Pyogp Transcripts]]